I am so sorry that you have to deal with this... The fact that she cheated is not a big surprise, of course, as she was well on the path to self destruction way back when you started posting - still, it hurts to find out the truth.

I can understand how you feel, and I guess the first thing you have to decide is do you want to try to save your marriage with someone like her, or do you want to move on...I think you would be well justified to do either, but it is obviously your choice.

Given that you have no kids, and that you have stood on your head for almost a year trying to save the marriage, I would tend to lean towards going to a Plan B, and see if she goes through whatever she needs to go through to change her destructive lifestyle. Failing that, I'd probably move on. But I think that she needs to hit rock bottom with her destructive lifestyle, and you should not be there holding her hand while she is continuing to destroy herself and the marriage.

AGG

Has she gotten tested for STD's. I would not be so sure this is the only time. The entire environemnt is into drinking, drugs and sex. You know she has been drinking so the chances this probably was not the first time but only the first time she got caught by you. I would think about contacting an attorney to understand your options. Your wife is simply not serious about you and her marriage. I think it probably will be a matter of time before you catch her again.

I have to say that it was ridiculous accepting her to continue to engage in such hurtful and anti-marriage activities. If the roles had been reversed do you think she would have been as accepting as you have been? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.
The Om was probably into drugs with the rest of the people so it is absolutely essential that she be checked for STD's.
Your story is so sad. Please do not let her destroy you since more than likely this environment will eventually destroy her.

Forget about changing her, that's her job. You must leave all wishful thinking behind and open your eyes to the reality that is in front of you. Should you give her a second chance? that's solely up to you. But if I were in your shoes, one of the non-negotiable conditions I would insist as a condition of my remaining in the marriage, is for her to quit her job ASAP. As you are painfully aware, that job is a marital toxic cesspool which will continue to suck her in time and again. Sorry but she has crossed the line and she has to choose which is more important, her "job" or you. It's time to grow a pair.

Pentagon,

Let me ask you, what could we possibly offer you in the way of advice that you would listen to? YOu have not even considered much less done what has been suggested of you for the past 8 months.

Your W has had at least ONE affair, and has been in appropriate in her behavior for 8 months and you have done nothing but stand there and wring your hands.

You go to Vegas for her birthday and she gets sooo drunk with other people that she passes out on you and you did NOTHING. You said NOTHING.

The problem you have is that you are NOT focusing on the right issue. YOu think it is her affair...it is not. The problem is she has no respect for her marriage or you, and she has demonstrated that her value system favors: drinking, drugs, partying, wealthy well educated men.

So let me ask you what kind of woman do you favor??? We know what kind of man your W favors and you are not it.

What is going to change that would encourage her to even reconsider her priorities and tastes in life?

YOu need to answer these questions and then decide if you are going to just come here complain and ignore what people have told you. You don't have to buy a thing anyone says, but you do need to listen. The person you need to be questioning is yourself, and why you have continued in this situation. You need to sort out YOUR boundaries and start to consider how YOU want to live your life.

I will close with Dr. Phil's famous question "how's that workin fer ya?" I would say your approach has been a failure. It is time for you to develop another plan for your life and your marriage. I would strongly urge you to call the Harley's and get some really good counseling and a plan. Your plan "yes dear" is not working.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Sorry to disappoint. I took the moral high ground, believing in my wife and best friend of over a decade. I realize that being the type of person who follows the rules is probably the precise reason this happened. I simply believe in karma, and I felt that being the considerate, compassionate, and realistic person that I have always been, that things would have a natural way of working out. I gave her the benefit of the doubt and got burned. Not unlike many other experiences I've had. So, am I ready to rediscover myself and change the way I handle matters? Yes. But do I think I was wrong by taking a chance with the one person who I felt I could take a chance with? No. I was just seeking some objective views on this - because I'm spent.

So, having gotten some views on this, what is your go-forward plan?

AGG

The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result. Your wife has made it clear that her job is her number 1 priority. She likes getting drunk with people who do drugs and she has engaged in sex with at least another person that you know of. She has made your marriage and your relationship a complete mockery. What happened in Las Vegas was pathetic.

She has been able to humiliate and disrespect you because you have allowed her and enabled her to show distain for you and your marriage. She has been allowed to live a single life with people who do booze, drugs and sex and now you have finally caught her cheating on you. She sounds like an alcholic. Why are you surprised? It seems like when you do get a little upset she becomes a little lovey toward you and then she continues her behavior. Why do you let her mock you this way? She is allowed to party and party with booze and drugs all around her. She has sex behind your back with another man. She does this because she is not afraid of any consequences from you. If she thought you would divorce her over this years ago do you honestly think she would have continued on this path? Nobody respects a doormat which is what you have become. Enough is enough! She is treating you like a tool fool.

You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speaks volumes about her total lack of respect toward you. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Please see an attorney to understand your options and do checked for STD since the chances are great that this guy your wife screwed has also done drugs.

BryanP...what do you think the chances are that she has screwed around with MANY more men?
An STD check is in order.

Stop being a doormat and your life will change. And hook your wife up to a polygraph to find out how many men she has betrayed you with. Be prepared for a big shock.

Pentagon...this HURTS..we all know that. So, why are you married to this woman. Forget her infidelity for a minute...you already know you rank behind a job in her life. What's the point?

I think this is a great point. I would certainly advocate having her take a polygraph test. I agree with you based on her environment she probably has done this a few times since almost everyone else has been doing it. I think a polygraph test would make it easier for you to walk away before you may come down with a life-threatening STD.

Pentagon-

I feel for you-- I really do. I was through a VERY SIMILAR experience with my H... he was out of town for all but MAYBE 48 hours a week, and wouldn't answer when I called, was always too busy for me, and was out drinking/partying with his work buddies all the time.

I wish I would have known of this place back then... I really do. I wouldn't be in the mess I am in now.

She HAS TO QUIT this job, there's no other choice or way. None. Sorry.

I trusted my H, I believed in him, even though I didn't trust his work friends or the lifestyle or the job.

He claims he had 2 EAs while he was out of town so much. He claims nothing physical at all. But I don't know anymore if I really believe that. But there's no way I'll ever know-- these people live out of town, and he conveniently has no idea what happened to them.

I wish I would have snooped back then. I wish I could settle my mind that I know the REAL truth. But I can't-- and I have to take his word for it now.

Anyways-- the moral of the story is, you found this place before it is too late-- if this is what you want and if you can get your wife on board-- lemme rephrase-- if SHE decides to get on board.

And I want to warn you that YOU too are very vulnerable right now. During this time, I became very resentful of my H being out of town and partying all the time. I sat at home for 2 years waiting for his calls, every night all night. And they rarely came. Or came from a bar where i could hardly hear him for about 30 seconds.

And I finally became so resentful that I decided I COULD HAVE FUN TOO. So, I started going out with MY co-workers, while he was out of town. I was so resentful, so angry at him for loving his job and his party lifestyle more than me and leaving me at home all the time and never calling...

I'm sure you can see where this story is going...

Yes, I myself became involved in an EA, then a PA (which only happened once and didn't involve actual intercourse) with a co-worker.

I made myself no better than him. Stupid. Not the correct way to go about things-- wish I would have found this site way back when...

Don't go down the road I did. Listen to the advice here.

My heart aches when I read your story... you sound so much like me a few years ago. BUT... you have the knowledge of this place, the advice of people here.

Don't make the mistakes I did. Don't put up with this crap. You are already drained. If it hasn't already, it will lead to resentment.

Don't go down my path!

She needs to quit this job. Period, end of subject.

If I were you, if she's not willing I'd cut my losses.

TT

Pentagon,

You said

I would like to discuss these statements with you. I know you feel defensive and that you are being attacked but really what I want more than anything is for you to start really thinking.

What does taking the moral high ground mean to you? I ask this because it seems to me she has violated your moral ethics many times and consequently you are very very hurt and disappointed in her. That comes through clearly in your posts. She clearly has NOT followed the rules and why do you follow the rules? I ask this because I suspect you follow them because you feel they are the right thing to do, AND there are consequences if you do not follow the rules. How does she fit in your life given what you have said about yourself.

As for trusting her, I can understand it in the beginning, but when you find she cannot come home because she and the others are drunk or high or both, didn't that shatter the trust. Or perhaps when on her birthday and you buy her an expensive gift and she is too busy and too drunk to appreciate it, and then passes out on you...BOTH days. Didn't that tweak the old trust meter a bit?

How do you think Karma works? I've always felt that Karma was about the old saying "what goes around comes around." So are you saying for her to be in as much pain as you??? That isn't very loving of you. Do you think karma means when she is teetering on a high ledge drunk that you should just stand there and let her fall off, rather than push her off? How about helping her?

My point Pentagon, is you have to sort out where you stand and then stand up and do the RIGHT thing. I won't tell you what I think the RIGHT thing is because it is your call, but as my old college football coach used to yell at us/me You do have to do what you feel is the right thing even if you risk it being the wrong thing for your marriage.

Have you exposed her affair to her family, parents, people that have enfluence with her? Have you exposed the drinking and the partying? If you don't do something, NOTHING will change. Do the right thing, and that first and foremost requires that YOU figure out what is right for you and your morals, your beliefs, your boundaries.

You say you gave her the benefit of the doubt and seem to use that to hide behind, but what happened when there was NO DOUBT that: she was drinking too much, she was ignoring the marriage, she was shacked up with at least one guy. I am sure there is doubt about many things but you KNOW about these things.

Time for you to do some self-analysis and make a plan to act on it. You are not a bad man, you are a confused man and I believe that your confusion is coming from you unwillingness/inability to stand up for yourself and your beliefs.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Pentagon,

My W also partied with a group from her work and then had an affair.

The only thing I knew to do was to call upon my core values. They were being challenged and I had to decide quickly to stick with these values or change them to fit the situation. I decided that my core values defined me correctly and were the way I wanted to live my life.

The number #1 best thing I did is I chose(internally) to not stay with her if she stayed at the company she worked for. I asked her to leave her job as our marriage wouldn't last if she stayed there. I didn't say anything else....just that simple statement.....she new it was correct and I new it was correct.

The number #2 best thing I did is I chose(internally) to make the changes in myself that would make me proud of being the husband I always wanted to be, to leverage my strengths and make up for my shortcomings. At best case, my wife sees this as true and my actions show it to be true that my marriage is the most important thing in my life. At worst case, this would give me the peace of mind that this wasn't about me and what I did or did not do.

In the toughest time of my life, these were the best 2 things I did. It defined me and also defined what I wanted out of life and a marriage. It was clear and I took action that followed my values. I lecture her or her decisions. I focused on what I deserved and what I stood for. I followed it all my life and I simply said why stop doing that now.

Looking back. Her quitting her job in the face of the affair was a huge step to ending the affair. She chose to take the risk on us instead of taking the risk of what if he leaves me and I have no job.

Pentagon,

Moral high ground you say. Honestly, I'll respond to that comment as a woman ... sounds more like cowardice to me. Clearly, your wife is a Party girl with the maturity of a sorority girl who likes the attention of men, lots of them.

I don't buy that you didn't know what was going on. Married people don't have any business going on day long benders with member of the opposite sex. You saw first hand the kind of behavior that she and her co-partiers were engaging in and did nothing.

Karma isn't going to help you fix this situation. I will agree, however, that things have a way of working out. In your case, it isn't going to be fun or have a happy ending.

Why exactly do you want to remain with someone who cares so little for not only you, but herself. IMHO, given the lack of children in your marriage, I see no reason to stay married.

Who

Pentagon,

Do you work in the 5 walled prison? I work there myself.

Seriously, if you have no kids, bail on this woman. She'll be a source of nothing but heartbreak for you.

I want to thank all of you for your advice since I first posted on this board a year ago. I am grateful for all the thoughts and advice you have given me.

I have tried so hard to keep this marriage together over the last few years. The hardest day of my life was the day I found out about her affair with a man she met on a business trip in Vegas back in November. But, now I think the hardest day of my life is one that hasn't occured yet - leaving her.

If you read back through the thread, you'll get the jist of what had occured up unitl early March. I haven't posted since then but a lot has happened.

First, my career has gone south due to the economy and cutbacks. I have been under two short-term layoffs of a few weeks at a time, with more to follow in the next several months. This has put a huge strain on are already razor-thin budget, which I take responsibility for due to trying to keep up with the Jones' and the expectations she has developed from her "money no object" work atmosphere and co-workers/friends. It is to the point where we have to seriously downsize the home and I have to give up one of our cars. I am resillient to it, for the material things really don't mean the world to me - but it is just more that she can't have at home that she gets at work and is exposed to by her co-workers. In reality, it is just more shade on me, more points against me in the "provide for" category, meanwhile, she continues with the partying, vacations, and 5-star treatment at work, which completely leaves me feeling inadequate.

Second, her fidelity took a second hit in late March, on her annual "company retreat" to Mexico. This was her first out of town company event since D-Day in November. Though we had made some huge strides in healing and improvement up to that point, I still had a lot of anxiety about her spending a 4 day weekend in Puerta Vallarta, in a luxury villa with coed accomodations.

She left on Friday morning and on Friday evening, I decided to book a plane ticket there, after talking to her sister (who thought it was a great idea and that she thought my wife would be so happy to see me). I boarded our dog, took the day off from work, and left at noon on Saturday. I landed in Puerta Vallarta at about 9 PM, after a long layover in Mexico City. She didn't have a physical address where she was going to be staying, she didn't come up with a phone number until the last minute (which I tried calling Friday night but would go straight to voicemail every time), and her cell phone didn't work there. So I was pretty much in the dark about where to find her. I had a general idea of the location and a picture of the villa, due to finding this particular place online, but it only gave a general location, no physical address. Basically, it was 40km south of the airport in Mismaloya. I hired a cab at the airport and we drove around for about 1 1/2 hours trying to find a place that resembled the one in the photos. It was dark, the road was awful (winding and threading the coastal bluffs), and it just seemed more impossible to find her than it did before I left. Well, I finally found a place that resembled the phot, but there was nobody there and I didn't hear any activity (keep in mind, these coworkers of hers are very loud and obnoxious). I checked into some mom and pop motel that just happened to be about 500 yards down this very dark road with no sidewalk. It was about midnight and I was almost asleep after the long day and drinking a beer on the balcony, when I decided to walk up to that house one more time to see if anyone was there.

Walking down the driveway of that house, I heard my wife's voice through a window. I was so happy that I had found her after this needle-in-a-haystack adventure I was on 1500 miles away from home. I pulled out the note I had written to her (which was on the back of one of the love notes she had left for me for every day she was gone, and basically stated that I was here and for her to come outside) and waited a few minutes to see someone come out of the house. A very drunk male co-worker of hers finally came outside and I gave him the note to give to her, with the explicit instruction not to tell her I was there. He went back inside and a few minutes later I could hear a knock on a door through the window that was open. This window was in a bathroom that, I found out later, was attached to a bedroom. Then, my surprise. A male voice answered "who is it?" several times, very hurried. I then could see the silhouette of two people through the sheer curtains, one definitely a female, getting off a bed and "fixing" themselves. I knew it was my wife. After another 5 or 10 minutes, which seemed like an eternity, she finally came outside.

The reception I got was very luke warm. I would have expected her to be very surprised and excited to see me considering the enormous hoops I had to jump through to get there, let alone to actually find her. Without really saying a word, she came with me back to my hotel. She was turned on, and when we had sex, it just didn't feel the same. For the first time in our 14 years together, it felt like I was getting the proverbial sloppy seconds - both physically and mentally.

So, even though I told her I didn't expect her to ditch her crew the rest of the weekend and that I had my own itinerary and schedule of things to do and a place to stay, she still stayed with me the rest of the weekend, in my hotel. Just the two of us. It was a wonderful weekend, a vacation together we hadn't had in so long. It wasn't unitl I got back on my plane to go home, by myself (they were on a different flight), that the shock of what I had found Saturday night hit me. To this day, she hasn't come clean with what was going on when I arrived. What I do know is that it would've been a coworker.

Fast forward to today, I am not happy in any aspect of my life. I am 34 years old, been married for over 11 years, and together with this woman for 14 years. I have no children, which is what I want so badly right now, most importantly, with my wife. My family lives on the other side of the country while hers lives here. I am missing my parents, my brother and his little one's growing up. We lived there for five years, then on a trip out here to visit her folks, I took one look at her on the plane on the way home back east and realized I had to do everything I could to get us back here. We lived in Southern California again 6 months later. I have nothing to really look forward to when I get home every day from work. We only have sex once a week, on Sundays. Though this weekend she had extra-curricular work activites Friday and Saturday night, Saturday being a "girls night" trip to San Diego in a limo. We had very little time together and no sex. I just feel like I am like the last priority for her. She puts all of her time and effort into her job and co-workers/friends that when it comes to me, she has nothing left.

So back to the beginning. I think I need to leave her. Even though I am at an age where you either start a family or never do, which is what I want more than anything else right now, I have nothing really to look forward to. I have lost so much in this marriage - I lost my best friends beacuse they couldn't deal with a man who's wife "sleeps around", I've lost valuable time with my family (we moved back here to sunny California, just so she could be closer to her family whom she totally ignores), I have no money, no wife, no marriage, my job is on the rocks. I just want some semblence of actual happiness, which is something that she apparently has through her job and work relationships, all the while I have none. I lost most of it because I loved her. Why is that such a double edged sword for me. I love this woman so much and we have been together so long, that it almost seems silly to break it up now, especially at such a pinnacle time in both of our lives. I just keep waiting for the love and respect of the 10 years we spent together before all of this to come back. But I just really don't feel like I have a choice. It's either bite the bullet now and concede defeat or risk even more heartache and the absolute inability to reach my own dreams and goals. The problem is - it will be so hard to say goodbye to her. She is all I've know for nearly half of my life and all of my adulthood. We were great together for a decade. We had the same dreams and desires. We were always so much in love and admired so much by others. It wasn't until this stupid career change of hers and this job that it started to go south. I am just scared of making the decision to end it. I love her so much. Please help me.

Pentagon,Kids seem to be important to you. How does your wife feel about kids? Do you think she would be a good mother?

Have you confronted your W about what you walked in on or interrupted?

Listen, you are responsible for your own misery.

You are still young.

There are many women out there. I didn't want to be single again either, but you would have a nightmare on your hands if you have kids with a woman who cheats and thinks nothing of it.

Yes, she's all you've known for half your life. Well, that's what has you trapped. You don't know any different.

Trust me, the single life isn't bad and if you don't have kids, then it's wide open for you. You can move to Cali, be with your family again, and find love once more.

But you need to stop pretending that there is no problem and have a serious sit down with your WW to tell her how you're feeling and what you're thinking about.

If she's dismissive, then bail. You have no kids. The rest of your life awaits you once you decide to start living.

Hello Pentagon,

I have been following your story from the beginning. Your latest update had me near tears. I feel tremendous empathy for you so that's why I'm going to ask ...

Where are you in Harley's PLANS?

Your wife has no motivation to change. She seems to not only have your support in her cheating ways, but doesn' suffer any consequences (your boundaries) for her very poor behavior. You practically reward her and don't utter a word that her actions are hurting you, and your marriage.

Now here you are 1 year later in the same place, or maybe worse. What PLAN are you in Pentagon, A or B?

Please take these words as someone who does care. Someone who has been in your shoes and does understand. Without a plan you'll continue to flap in the wind until you AND YOUR MARRIAGE are shreaded to pieces.

God Bless,
Jo

To answer the questions raised in the last two responses...

We have been talking about starting a family since day 1. We were just always waiting for the right time, financially, geographically, and spiritually. It is what she wants too, as much as I know from what she has always told me from day 1.

We are in California, my family is on the east coast, her family is here. We left California shortly after we met and moved back east for a few years. We then moved back to California after about five years, mainly so she would be closer to her family.

And finally, we have had many sitdowns, especially since her cheating episode in Vegas came to light. The problem I have is that she says that she wants me and the life that we had always talked about having, but then she goes off and does her own thing, all the while making me feel like some nuisance in her life. And the question of Mexico is almost too much for me to bear, for she still will not come clean on it. What is so significant about that trip, besides the fact that she had cheated on me just four months before, is that she won't come clean with me on it. I just want to hear it from her, for I already know what it was. I just feel like that if she could come clean with me about it, that it would be a huge step towards reconcilliation. And until she does, all the reconcilliation we had made up to that point is mute. Not a word spoken or action taken by her means anything to me with that huge cloud hanging over. Without it, I just feel like our marriage is torn up with lies. The few moments of pure bliss and happiness on Sunday's is almost like my reset. And then the other 6 days happens. I almost feel like the church everyone goes to on Sunday to repent their sins, but then they go about doing whatever the hell they want to do Monday - Saturday. It's hypocrycy of the highest form.

Pentagon wrote:

And you are allowing it. I'll ask again, what is your plan?