Sorry, I wasn't going to post again, because I don't want to keep saying the same thing but ...


If you don't think there is a threat there when:

1) your wife is going on a girls only trip on a cruise
2) it is right before she moves back in (last chance to be single)
3) she has been going out to clubs with friends without you
4) she kissed a guy right after you revealed the affair
5) she is obviously in pain and not thinking clearly

then I want some of whatever you're drinking.

Before my wife had an affair I would have bet you anything she wouldn't do it. She's just not that kind of person. Sometimes people do things out of character. Especially when they are in pain.

I'm not trying to blast you. If you can't stop her you can't stop her, but don't think there is no threat. Don't even think there might be a small threat. This is a perfect storm.

So then maybe I state my concerns to her about the cruise? I really don't even know how without being insecure and 'I' centered.

How's this:

I feel that you should wear your wedding ring while you are on the cruise.

Ok, I have no idea what to say to say this in a non-insecure, non-controlling manner:

I feel that you should wear your wedding ring on the cruise to remind yourself that you are still married, until you are no longer married. I feel that dancing and partying it up with other singles on the cruise while you are drinking and already distant and hurt from our relationship will only expose you to greater risk of doing something that you may regret. I cannot force you to do this, but for the sake of protecting what is left of our marriage, and with full hopes of restoring it in the future, I am asking for this small concession.

Pointers PLEASE!

I wish I could give you some ideas on what to say, but I don't know. I can tell you what I was looking for when I was in her situation. I wanted to know that she understood the pain that she had caused. I wanted to see that she was remorseful and hurting, but at the same time I wanted her to understand that she would never really understand what the affair did to me. I don't know exactly how she could have done that. It seems like you're working on yourself right now which is good, but she may not look at it the same way. Right now she is likely more concerned with you empathizing with her rather than with you working on your problems. After all, she didn't leave you because you were controlling. She left you because you cheated.

Good luck with it. I don't know if there is an answer. I just wanted to motivate you to try anything and everything.

PS People recognize sincerity. Look deep inside and ask if you are trying to meet her emotional needs so she will come home to you, or are you meeting them because you are devastated and ashamed of the pain you have caused her and want to make her as happy as you can.

This one...

B,

Do you know if she might have been looking for a justifiable reason to get OUT of a miserable marriage?

I was. WH delivered it with his EA he confessed a year ago today.

I would have left like your W did, but I stayed....through 3 more D-days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Maybe she's like me. If so, I'll share what my H did to help me if you're interested. Please read my story (sig line) and let me know.

Ace

She may have been looking for a reason to leave. I had gotten pretty bad with control and manipulation and disrespect in the year leading up to the A and revealing it. We got married VERY young and she is living the single life now that she never got to and appears to be loving it.

She really appears to be indifferent to me now. We've had brief interactions and chats because of the kids. She is supposed to move back in next week because of financial reasons, but she is so closed off to me I'm not sure if I can Plan A through it. She will be going out with her friends to clubs and bars and I won't be able to stop her. If I tell her it's not best for our marriage, she'll respond by saying I ruined our marriage, and will make her run away faster and harder.

I don't know if I'm strong enough to take the persistent disrespect from her and continue to love her without AO, DJ, and LBs. It hurts now (which it should) to realize what I may have lost forever. I'm trying and I'm praying, but the moving back in together as "roommates" may tear me apart and ruin us further. I've been told to "man-up" and take it, so is this really the best plan?

Ace,

I'd love to have ANY suggestions of what I can do to help her to move on from this. I'd really like us to be together and for her to take a chance on us, but right now it is OBVIOUS she wants nothing to do with that - not even a little. I just hope living together and seeing her everyday not caring about my existence doesn't tear me apart.

Thanks for all the help,
B

B,

Not much time now, but I will check in later. In the meantime, your following words may hold your future:



How badly do you want to succeed?


You've been told right. IF you want to save what's left of your marriage.

My H said he would endure anything, including all of the above and then DID everything to prove it. It's only been 6 months, but we are NOW making progress.

He got more involved with his Christian walk, taking the lead in our reading, studying, praying together EVERY day or night.

He agreed to go the the MC we had been avoiding b/c H and MC were fishing friends over 20 years ago.

He bites his tongue, checks his attitude constantly, and we both quit 'gaslighting' (sarcastic double-speak aka passive agressiveness). He apologizes when he accidently slips....me too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

That's a start, but if you question if you're strong enough to take all she has to dish out, you may be defeated before you even try.

Find out first if she is having/had a revenge A. That may change things only a skilled MC and constant MB posting and a miracle of God can fix.

Ace

I've also been told not to take her acting in a manner that will only ruin our marriage further. I cannot stop her from wanting the single life because of what I've done to her, but I can take measures to protect whats left of my self-respect and to protect my boys from further damage. She is free to do as she pleases, but I can't change the past. If she wants to live there, then fine. But she can't live there with me, because I am moving past it. I want to help her as much as I can and I've offered, but she has absolutely displayed that she doesn't want my help. There is a point when enough is enough. I may sound self-centered but I need to do what's best for my marriage. If its dead, then its dead. No sense ruining our lives and our boys lives further.

Let me know how wrong I am.

Thanks,
B

B,

I may be as wrong as you....I'm only 6 months into MB myself. But I will share what is working for us and if some of it applies and will help you, so be it.

Remember, though, what we did was before we found MB. But God proves once again that "His Grace covers a multitude of sin." (I actually embrace 2x4s as that's how I've learned many of the MB concepts.)

FIRST: Somehow do NOT involve the children. If you can get away for a week-end or even a week alone of uninterrupted time, you can make a good start. Sitter, friends homes, grandparents....someone can help you somehow with this.

If our DS25 had not begged my H to fight for our M (instead of taking the coward's way out and letting me leave), we would not be together. I would have finally had my justifiable reason to escape from my 32 years of misery. (Did you read my story?)

I did not stay for DS25, but his plea allowed time for me to give WH a chance to prove himself. Of course, your kids are much younger but might say the same thing if they were able to. If things get too tough, focus on how much better your children will be if you and your W CAN fully recover.

This may not be possible, but you owe it to your W to give it a try. At least, I thought so and it's working out for us so far. DD27 wanted me to dump WH but DS25 wanted us to fight. So we did and although DS27 didn't speak to her F for 60+ days, she's pleased, too.

SECOND: Feel your wife's hurt. After the 3rd D-Day, I realized how wrong I was to hide my hurt....that's why my H did not realize how badly he had devastated me and us before. You may need to see more of her hurt. I am normally mild mannered and barely utter more than a 'dang' or 'shoot' in times of frustration. The week following D-Day #3, I let 'er rip........f-bomb after f-bomb and shocked my cowering WH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> But the anger explosion was actually healthy for us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

WH took it. He just manned-up and took it. Then he sincerely apologized for being the cause....over and over again, softly, remorsefully. And he never fired back one shot....only affirmed that he had it coming and he would take it to prove how badly he wanted me and us to recover.

Even now, when I trigger like I did yesterday (1 year later), he maintains his stance that he will do anything to prove his love and help us recover. And we are....slowly but surely.

THIRD: Plans must be made and boundaries must be established. Plan A is for her to see what a wonderful husband/dad you are. Posters can help you set those up. We did them sorta, kinda, haphazardly, proving that even if you don't have it all together, results can still be positive.

If she takes more from your Love Bank and you skirt the edge of losing all love for her, you may have to go to Plan B, although I don't know how that works very well if you're the WS....but, then, uhhhh..... you may be the BS by then.....if/when 'that' happens.

LIVING TOGETHER AS ROOMMATES IS A START...not the best, but it's better than her leaving. It will give you the chance you may need to man-up.

IF YOU CAN GET HER TO FILL OUT THE EN Questionnaire, that will help you know how to Plan A her. Those discussions should be when you have uninterrupted time for a heart to heart....if she wants to. If not, you can't MAKE her, but you can thaw her resolve so that she may CHOOSE to WANT to discuss your future with you.

RECAPTURE LOST FREEDOMS. I was engaged at 19, married at 20...all because I didn't want to be left behind (I never seemed to be able to 'get a boyfriend'). When I turned 51, I longed for those days of freedom, not to regain my missed youth singleness that I dreaded being saddled with. But to be out from under the continuous oppression of living with (but not being emotionally intimate with) a manipulative, controlling, demanding person. If this is what your wife is thinking, it will be very difficult, but not impossible, for you to convince her otherwise. My H is proof that it can be done.

There may be more, B, but that's what I have to share for now. Hope some of it will help. Wish I'd had MB forums like you do, but we did the best we could with what we had. That's what you'll have to focus on as well....doing the best with what you have.

Best wishes,
Ace

You probably won't like this one, but this is the first DRAFT of the conversation I plan on having with her when she gets back from her cruise:

W,

The reason I need to speak to you tonight is because of Love. Not for Love of who you are now, for that is not the girl I fell in love with, but for the love of our boys. The text I sent you last Friday was because God spoke to me through DS7, I was doing your homework and DS7 came into the office and said, “Dad, I feel alone.” I thought he might be missing you so I asked him if he wanted to call you and he said, “No Dad, I miss you.” Once again, I was jolted/slammed with the reality of what God’s true purpose is for me. It is one thing in God’s eye to sin against another adult, as I have you. God sees it entirely differently, and much more harshly, when you sin against children, as I have done these past few weeks and months to the boys. You see, I have been so focused and “strung-out” on feeling guilty for what I’ve done to you, and trying with all my might to earn your forgiveness – to “fix” us – out of fear of losing you, that I’ve neglected my boys who need me the most. I have made my apologies to you for the harm that I have done, I have owned those actions and their consequences and followed that up with actions of recovery, and rebuilding myself in God to protect you from ever being harmed again; I have cleaned up my side of the street. Yet, I continued to feel guilty and fearful of losing you. I thought I was doing God’s will by giving to you my love over and above my own wants and needs regardless of how I was being treated, but I was wrong.
I was not doing God’s will, I was still doing my own will in wanting to keep you and our marriage together and to do whatever I could to help you heal from this pain that I have caused. Adultery is the only reason God allows a person to leave a marriage. This fact has been presented to me repeatedly in the past days. Moreover, I have come to believe that I have already lost you. I cannot bring peace to someone who does not accept it. Therefore, my focus can no longer be on fixing you or us. I have done my part; the rest is up to you and God to figure out. My job is to protect my boys from further damage—to stop the bleeding of their wounds.
I cannot control or change your behavior. My program and my relationship with God has taught me that. I can, however, limit or stop exposing your behavior to the boys and me. You living here while being unwilling to respect me in any way (which is your right) would only damage me and the boys more that they should have to bear. They should not have to see their Dad sit in agony as their Mom leaves the house to get drunk and flirt with other men and stay out until 2am, or not come home at all. Then treat us all like ****** the next few days while you recover from your hangover and lack of sleep. The boys should not have to wonder, “Why is Mom doing this to Dad and us?” This is from what I am protecting them. I am not being unloving in any way; I am protecting myself and the boys from things that would destroy our love for you.
Therefore, out of protection for our boys, and me we cannot live together. Should you choose someday to want to work on “us,” then you are more than welcome to live with me, as I am ready to love you, as I never have before. Nevertheless, until (and if) that day comes, we must live apart. I must first support a stable home for the boys. If you would like to live in the house, you will have to pay for it, and all the bills that come along with it, as I will need to establish a healthy home for the boys elsewhere. If you choose to leave, I must first provide for the boys’ home, which is at the house. We can continue to try to sell it, but until it sells, I will continue to pay the mortgage, equity loan, utilities, electricity, water, phone, life insurance, truck insurance, my half of the childcare, medical insurance for all of us, dental insurance for all of us, vision for all of us. All you will need to take is your car payment, car insurance, cell phone, visa, gym and tanning memberships, and your half of the childcare. This will start immediately, as I have already spent my entire paycheck on my bills. Yours are still unpaid. What you will need to do is to get insurance for the car in your name (I will be cancelling our current policy at the end of this month). You will need to transfer your cell phone into your name (I will be cancelling it at the end of this month). You will need to get your own gym membership if you choose to keep it (I will remove you from mine at the end of this month). You will also need to reimburse me for your half of this month’s childcare as I have already paid it in full, and will need the money to provide food for the boys, and gas to get them to school and back. You should also get your own checking account.
If there is anything I have forgotten we can work out the details as we discover them. As for the household items, we can mutually divide those once you have residency established. I understand you will need a Divorce to be filed to qualify for low-income housing. My Attorney will be doing this for you soon.

Good luck with your life W, now get out of mine.

Sincerely,



WH

brutschm - Do you really want an answer from a brother in Christ?

If you do, here it is. If not, proceed with your plans that are not "God's will" and guaranteed to end your marriage.

This letter, though I understand the emotions that are driving it, is decidely NOT God's will for marriage or for recovery from adultery, nor is it a "leadership" role in the home that is a God-given role for a husband.

Before elaborating any further I'll wait and see what your response is.

God bless.

I am always willing to listen to advice. I can't promise I'll see things as you do, but I'm willing to listen.

All those things that you said my letter is "not," I believe it is. It may not be the best thing for my marriage, but as I said, I don't want to be married to who she is now. It is definitely the best thing for my boys, because this is tearing them up, and it needs to stop.

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference. Thy will not mine be done."

Thanks,
Brandon

Irony or understatement?

Not it is not the best thing. In fact, it is the final nail in the coffin.

All of those things that have been said that I should do, I cannot do.

I should just live with her and take it. This may be ok for some, but I cannot allow her to continue doing this. Many have said "Two wrongs do not make a right." Since I can't change her, I can protect myself and my boys from further harm.

You've also said that I need to tell her to stop the behavior that led to the breakdown in our M. Well, I've cleaned up my side of the street, and suggested that she do the same. And she is absolutely unwilling to do anything. And that is her right. It is also my right to protect what I have left in my life which is my boys.

Many BSs on here have said that they just wanted something from their WH that showed them they cared. I have done all of that, repeatedly. When is enough enough? Should I just take it for 8 years just to save my M? If that is what your heart tells you to do, then good for you. Mine says otherwise. Mine says to stop being her pillow that allows her to keep making mistakes without consequences. I've been told to be her husband and do this for her. Well, I am her husband and I've made a constant attempt to do just that, and it is not working, in fact, it seems to drive her farther away. This is not pushing her out of my life (although I know it will based on who she thinks she is right now). It is simply setting boundaries for my health and the health of my kids, which I've been told to do also.

The great thing is that I'm no longer confused. You can tell me how wrong I am etc. etc. But you know what? I know in my heart that it is over. She is not coming back. So I have to move on and protect my boys in the best way that I know how.

If she ever wants to work on us in the future. I may be there, and I may not. Thats up to God, really.

So thanks, but I'm not going to be a doormat. I can't live in the past, it will not consume me any longer. I am putting it where it belongs, which is behind me. Sorry that doen't please all of you, buy you are not who I am trying to please. I must please God. I must allow God to control the things that are his to deal with. And I must make choices that allow me to live in his image.

Good luck with all of your lives. I'm sure you'll survive just as I will.

Thanks,
B

It is always your choice to divorce. I have no opinion whether that is wrong or right for you nor do I care. Why should I? It's not my life.

I did choose to follow the MB program.

I did happen to recover my marriage.

My children are very happy in their family.

If you choose to try to save your M, many people here (including me) will be happy to do anything we can to help you try.

But you don't seem to have ever really given it any serious effort. And now you post this letter effectively telling your W to hit the road. Your choice. But I can't help you with that.

Parts of my letter/conversation will never happen. They are a way to vent frustration. Especially the last line. I hope you can see that I am not going to say anything that closes the door to ever rebuilding my M. But as much as I don't like it, there is nothing further that I can do at this time. I can't Plan A. Well, I could actually. I could sit here and love her and try to meet her ENs, all the while she would be hating me (which is her right) and not caring one iota, and continuing to hurt me and destroy any love I have left for her. Is that healthy for our boys? I don't think so.

I'm so glad that MB has helped for so many. I do see how the principles work for you. But there has to be at least one shred of willingness to pay attention on the other side of the street. That is what I've seen from all of the posts and advice that I have been given. Even though all of these BSs have been angry, hurt, bitter, etc. etc. They have still been present. They have been available to vent their anger and frustration at the WS. My W has none of this. And it would be a spineless, desperate attempt by me to be a "blind fool" to think I can do otherwise. Think of this as my Plan B. She is unwilling to give up the OM (not actually a man but the single life) So I have to give her up and protect my boys.

I'm not happy that I am powerless to fix my marriage. But I have to accept that powerless ness in order to save myself. Just as a addict needs to realize they are powerless over their addiction, I am powerless over my Ws heart. And it will only destroy me further to blindly think otherwise.

Thank you for your help,
B

Do you want to sincerely try to write a (good) Plan B letter?

Is Plan B the direction you really want to go at this point or is it Plan D?

I'm sorry things are so tough. I know you're going through a lot of pain, but make sure that you don't make a decision based on pride. I have a real problem with putting aside my pride, but if you don't you don't stand a chance of rebuilding your marriage. Good luck.

Dear Brandon,

As you can see, I'm not a very accomplished poster here, but I am old enough to be your mom and have lived long enough to observe and/or experience life from many different angles. I am also a believer of and recipient of God's grace given through Jesus Christ and would therefore like to write to you as a Christian sister (as I believe you've mentioned your allegience to his precepts).

Brandon, despite what you are affirming as certainty right now, I read a lot of frustration and impulsivity in your posts. Please remember, you cannot undo/unsay what you put in motion. You and your wife are very early into your recovery (although it must seem like a lifetime to you). You are actually very early into your lives... together... as parents... even as individuals. I am not saying this to disrespect you, but to caution you. There have been times in my life that I felt with some sense of certainty that I was doing "God's will" when, in truth, my actions had just enough of my own will in them that they had disastrous consequences.

Before going any further, Brandon, please search the scriptures to see how your latest feelings and determined course of action line up with the character of God as modeled by Jesus Christ. Take the whole of scripture into account - not just a verse here or there. Seek godly counsel. Give yourself and your family time. Your sons are not in any dire danger, and by your presence in their lives, they have the spiritual and physical protection you afford them. Consider how your previous impulsive actions set this whole scenario in motion. Whether it was fear of abandonment or whatever.... YOU set this in motion, Brandon, and I think that YOU must now put yourself aside in order to give your family time to recover. Please don't use your sons' perceived "needs" as an excuse to end (or even suggest ending) your marriage - even if it's in the form of putting the ball in your wife's court.

Don't be so easily (twice) deceived in such a short time, Brandon.

For the sake of your sons.

For the cause of Christ.

MAzingrace

I am really focusing on doing Plan B. This first version of my letter is to get out my frustration on paper, get it out of my head. So that when I actually have the conversation with her, it is not about what she is doing to hurt me, but about what I have to do for me and the boys and hopefully our M. I SO don't want Plan D at all.

If you have Plan B advice I am all ears. I will also be working with my MC (who is actually just a C at this point) and my sponsor to ensure that my motives are clean, not from anger. And that I focus on Me/I and my part. And also that I do love her and am not doing any of this to hurt her or take revenge in anyway. Because although I may feel this at times, I do not want it to be how I treat her. I am mainly angry at the situation, that I know I have caused.

So yes, Plan B is where I need to go, and what I need to convey to my BS.

Pride from Wikipedia:
"Pride refers to a strong sense of self-respect, a refusal to be humiliated...Pride is found in someone who won’t give up and someone who refuses to settle for anything less than respect."

With this, I feel I am settling for less than respect. She won't respect me in any way, and I accept that. But, on the flip side of that, there is a balance between being prideful and being a doormat and enabler. It is a fine line I have to walk, which is why I look for much guidance in staying on the line and not straying from it.


Thanks,
B