This will be long so I'll make 2 posts. First 1/2 & second 1/2.

First off, Eph525 sent me here.

Here's my story. I know I may jump around a lot. I'll try to include all the facts. Forgive me up front...it will be long! Thanks to those that hang on. Remember, I'm a woman...I need DETAILS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WH and I have known "of" each other since Middle School. We started dating his last week of Senior year, my Jr. year. We dated for 2 years & were married in 1994. We were 19. I don't regret getting married young.

We did not put God first in our marriage. THAT I regret!! After a while we put sleeping in Sun morning at a higher priority.

He always had good jobs and we built our 1st house at the age of 21. We've driven nice cars and never really needed for anything. We've been truly blessed!

I can't say we have always been blissfully happy. He's always had friends, I've never had any. He enjoys spending time with friends & away from me, I yearned to spend all my time with him. (he was my DH after all).

We never really "fought". I'd just kinda huff & puff when he wanted to go out with friends. This was a cause for tension for a long time. I know part of the problem was that I didn't have any friends & nothing to do but sit & wait on my husband to come home. He would always act like he's asking my permission to go do something, "would you mind"...well, when it's ALL the time, yes I do mind. I couldn't give him a reason other than I wanted him around. He said he was not gonna be a _______ (I forget the word he used) sitting on the couch beside me.

Over the years we never tried hard to understand each other. We grew up from different types of families. My parents separated for a bit when I was 9. My dad's an alcoholic & wanted to be with his friends & not married. They're together now. He grew up with only his mom. He's never met his dad. She remarried when he was 16. So, we've not had the best role models of what a great marriage should be. To this day he will tell you that my parents are miserable and they should've divorced years ago.

He grew up in church, as did I, but our secular world just took over.

We tried for 4 years to get pregnant and after a move 3 hours away from our families to a wonderful job for him in a wonderful place God blessed us with the most precious gift. We now have a wonderful, beautiful 3 year old son.

One week after he was born, WH was back to his normal routine. He does a martial art and was back to that 2 nights a week and Sat mornings. He also had been running at the time and would do that as well. With no family or any real friends close by, I was a virtual single mom to a newborn very quickly.

He is a loving father and I know he loved me. He just seemed more interested in himself and his friends.

I had finally got fed up with it and in Aug 2006 I wrote him a letter stating that I felt his activities (martial art, cycling, poker nights, fight nights, movies, birthday dinners...u name it) were more important than me & DS3 (2 1/2 at the time). I told him that I knew there was resentment from both sides. We didn't appreciate each other. I apologized for not being the perfect wife. Thanked him for things I know I never thanked him for. The house stayed a mess because neither of us would get it done. I felt he was never home, he felt (I guess) that since I was home 1/2 the day I should get it done. Who knows. We never talked about it. I hated confrontation & he always threw things back at me about why I was wrong.

His response to me was nastiness through instant messenger 2 days later. He said it was the same complaint, different time. Now, it's just another set of friends. I want nothing more than 100% of his time and he can't give that to me. He's not getting any younger and he wants to have accomplishment to show. He did say me & DS were his best accomplishments. I've been an "obstacle" to him all these years. He's had to work extra hard to achieve these goals, whether through work, achieving his black belt, cycling, etc. I can honestly say that I've not totally encouraged it, because it took so much of his time away from us. I was there with joy when he got his black belt earlier last year. DS & I were the ONLY people there for him early on a Sat & Sun morning for his 1st bike races. His response, "where were you the 8 years leading up to it?". I understand as his wife I should've been more encouraging, but like my dad tells me, he never stepped up to be the husband God commissioned him to be.

I did tell him in the letter that I knew he wouldn't see it my way, but to just call a truce and I offered some suggestions on how to show appreciation for each other.

He told me that I could tell my lawyer & friends anything I wanted, but we both know the truth, I've never appreciated anything I've been given, I've never given back and I never encouraged him to do anything for himself (or something like that).

I can only recall once after 9/11/01 did he ask if I wanted to look for a church. I was still set in my secular ways and sleeping in on Sunday was easier. My dad is upset because him being the spiritual leader of the home should have insisted on it.

After the letter, things did not get any better. They kinda got worse in my opinion. We just went about our days. The nights he would come home (at a decent time, before DS3 went to bed) I wouldn't be happy to see him because of all the other times he wasn't home.

2nd Part....

The day after Thanksgiving 2006 he rolled over in bed & said, "Are you happy? I'm not, I haven't been in a very long time". Some of this is a blur so of course I can't quote verbatim, but basically he said he's had a long time to think about it, knows it wasn't fair, he thought about giving me an ultimatum to change, counseling, etc, but no, didn't think it would work. He's sorry he can't keep his promise to me, yada yada yada. I'm sure most of you have heard the same thing. He basically packed a bag and left.

Before he left I was on my knees to God asking for his help.

I was in much denial as most of us I'm sure. He was around a lot at first, I thought there would be some hope. He kept his ring on for a while. He wrote me a letter in Dec stating how he sees me turning to books & religion to make me someone I'm not, 6 months from now I'll be back to my old self, yada yada. We needed to get lawyers. He had decided I'd stay in the house, what bills each of us would pay, visitation with DS (which was more than he EVER saw him at home), etc. It shattered my world!!! I had told him that life's too short, meaning, let's work this out. He said, "yes, life is too short, that's what got me to this point." he said he was tired of working so hard at it.

I found myself in 2 support groups and quickly found the PERFECT church. Since then I've been baptized, become a member of the church and my DS has been dedicated. I've found lots of great friends. Unfortunately most of them are going through this horror as well.

As most of you, I was in complete denial that he was involved with anyone. Stupid me, actually believed when he said, "I know I don't have to tell you this, but I've never thought of, looked at or touched another woman". Cough..."bull-%$*&". My mom pegged it early on as to who it was. I finally had a friend (co-worker of the 2) tip me off. I pulled text records from his cell phone (he lived on it) and saw her # WAY more than I ever wanted to see. I had her number because I had an email from last year (the day after my birthday to be exact), for a girls night out. My DS had been saying her name when he'd come back from "visiting". I finally hired my PI and handed everything over to him. Her name, address, cell phone #, VIN & make of her mini van (HA...he HATES mini vans), picture of her (actually a group picture of us in front of my birthday cake), where they worked, who there friends were, where they hung out, etc. Obviously it didn't take long for him to have some info for me. GOTCHA...here we go. His little "no fault" (yes I live in one of those retched states) divorce just switched gears.

I've heard from others that he's around saying that he wants joint custody so he'll have to pay less child support, he wants to keep his "relationship" quiet till the divorce is over so he can hang on to as much $$ as he can. Well, what WS out there doesn't say these things? And apparently his mantra around work is "we just weren't growing together".

Early on I did everything but plead with him to come home. He was not having any of it. Asked, "why are you willing to change now?". He's never taken one ounce of blame for any problems in our marriage. Yes, I know, they never do! I've never once said since the day he walked out that I've been perfect & not at fault. I have my faults & like Gary Chapman suggests, I wrote these down for him & gave them to him. He "appreciated" them, but knows that in years to come, there will just be another list, another set of resentments, etc. WHATEVER....what planet do you live on dude??? This is called life!!!

So, I'm in the spot where he still has this total wall up and in his mind, it's completely over. I'm still hanging onto what I can. I'm learning a lot, getting closer to God and trying to be a better person. For me & DS!

WS has moments of niceness. I really can't tell if it's to keep me nice & not slam him in court, to hang onto $$, a lot of visitation, look like the perfect father, or if he's slowly starting to come around. I'm just so confused. I don't want to play into his GAMES if they are games! He calls here every 2-3 nights to "talk" to DS. Of course he's not interested in talking on the phone. again, not sure if he's trying to play "nice", keep his son from forgetting him or if he wants to hear my voice. DS has not mentioned OW's name in a while, so either he's finally keeping him away from her or she's finally dumped him.

I've not personally confronted him about OW. We had our first court hearing last Monday where I finally had a judge tell him he can't have our DS around her! I can't count how many times he's had DS around OW & her 2 boys.

I want a better life for DS & me. I'm thankful that God allowed this to happen. I would still be in the same rut. DS would not be exposed to church, I'd be spiraling down. I'm thankful I'm in the place I am. Now I just have to trust God in his timing and trust that things will be worked out whether it's with WS or he has someone better for me. I want someone that wants God 1st in our lives & our marriage and cherishes our family more than his activities & friends. I now have friends and hope I can keep them and we all have the same morals and values.

He said he was happy I found a church I liked. He knows how I liked it when we met. He's sorry he wasn't as "into it" as I was. We just never found the right one! The one I'm at is very contemporary. They have several bands. It's like going to a concert on Sun morning. I can't wait to get up each week!!! I look at the guitar players every week and say, "that could be him".

Before he left he started growing a beard (nothing he'd ever been able to do before). That should've clued me in. Now he just looks like a homeless man. I feel bad for him (in a way).

I've read so much, talked so much, prayed so much, yet I'm still confused. I know I need to get a PLAN down. I'm just SCARED! I'm always afraid I'll make the wrong move, say the wrong thing. But, what do I have to lose??? He's not here, he's filed for divorce.

He's also already said, "All I want is for you to be happy. One day you & I will both realize we did everything we could to be happy.". BOLOGNA!!!! He's the one that went to the therapist last year. note, I did not say Christian Counselor. I said, therapist. We have NEVER been to marriage counseling, Christian or otherwise. We've NEVER prayed together. We've NEVER gone on a marriage conference or anything else of the like. I know it's just in their "script". I will take it to my grave that we did NOTHING to make things work!

A lot of what I read about how to handle this seems to assume that WS is still living in the home. Mine left that day, I found out about OW later. He's already "done" with us. Ready to move on. I know there is nothing too great for God to handle, I know it CAN be fixed. Question is, WILL it and what is my role?

I'm currently reading Dr. Harley's stuff and about to get SAA, so I know a lot will be answered there. I just wanted to go ahead & get my story out there.

Thanks in advance and God Bless each one of you. Maybe we can be a part of reducing the ever increasing divorce rate in this country. It's HORRIBLE and was NEVER an option for me. I'm just now forced into it. In my state, we have "No Faults" and no Alienation of Affection laws anymore. The judges see it way too much and they're numb to it.

God help us all!!!

Hello, first of all, i'm sorry that you find yourself here! We can all relate to your pain!

E is a wonderful person and I'm glad that he directed you here...

How long do you think that the A has been going on? What are the two support groups that you are in? Dcare? Al-anon?

Once again, i'm sorry that you find yourself in this sitch!

Welcome. You are ahead of the game in that your husband has given you some things he did not like about the marriage. I would get very busy cleaning the house sparkling clean, and developing friendships and activities for YOU.

Start Plan A, and plan to stay there for at least 3 months, without seeing any effort or appreciation from him.

The other part of Plan A is exposure. Contact the HR at their work, and let them know that the adultery is breaking up your marriage and destroying a family and ask what they plan to do about it.

Affairs never last, and this one will end too. It will just take some time.

Thanks. I hate to find myself here as well! I'm just glad to find lots of people that can help and understand the pain I'm going through.

Yes, E is great! I wish all the best for him and that things will turn around for him as well!!

I did DivorceCare and a class on Gary Chapman's book "Hope for the Separated".

I'm not sure how long the A has been going on. Like I said, I wrote him a letter 8/06. He had me at her house 9/14/06. It's thought that becasue of his reaction to my letter that something was going on before 8/06. As a "blind" person trusting DH, I had no thoughts of anything going on. He was out a lot and of course I trusted him (because, isn't that what a spouse does??). I wasn't looking for signs. I'm sure they were there! I know the people he was with, etc, but she hung with that crowd also. She had a BF, but in the recent past they split (don't have the story on that). She did leave her marriage (time unknown) because she was "unhappy". Left 2 kids. Again, I don't know the details. Not sure how long her & BF were together. There's a good chance that ended & her A with my WH at the same time.

Believer, thanks for your input.

I am already starting with the "working on me" plan. I've got lots of friends now (sometimes I lose count), I'm not sitting at home moping anymore. Now I DO need to get cracking on the house. That's one thing I hate & can't get motivated, but I know I need to.

As far as his job...it's called "Divorce Central" around here. It's horrible there! I'm not sure what HR would do. I can't afford for him to lose his job, but yes, I know what you all will say, "I can't afford for him NOT". If that's what it'll take to restore this marriage.

His activities and accomplishments are so important to him. So important that he spends more time away doing them than with his family.

Now, of course he's trying for the "father of the year" award or something. Not sure if it's sincere or just the games they play.

Kiliki, Sorry you find yourself here with us.... but I am so glad to hear that you have gotten on God's path for you and your son.

As far as your quote above, of course he is playing games. He wants more custody than he deserves for a couple of reasons...one, the money he will not have to pay and two in order to as much as possible legitimize relationship with OW.

Exposure is your best tool to end the affair. Affairs thrive in secrecy and fantasy. When shown the light of day it rears its head and all the ugliness shines through....

You will get great advice here, just as Eph has.

Thanks "hope".

He's playing the game, but my lawyer's gonna let him do it. The judge is gonna let him do it. He uses the "I just want to see him...remember, he's OURS, not YOURS" all the time.

The court systems are horrible. He's never been abusive, neglectful, or given me any reason to fear for our safety or anything else. There are worse cases out there so I'm afraid they'll just tell me, "well, he's trying, he's a good father, he deserves, yada yada". It's just another day at work for them. This is OUR lives here. That's why the whole thing of getting rid of the whole allienation of affection law was a BAD move. Until there are consequences of these actions, they will surely continue. This is such a throw away society.

I could sleep better had we EVER gone to ANY type of counseling & we both agreed it wouldn't work. We tried NOTHING!

I have heard that a lot of his friends (the ones he seemed to cherish so much) don't hang out with him anymore. I really think he's losing respect from a lot of them. I know I"m not anyone to judge, but they've got their own problems, I'm just glad they don't approve of his behavior. Not that he really cares anyway.

Part of the problem is that we've been married almost 13 years. His friends are not married / just married / married a few years / no kids / on the way...so they've not gotten out of the "ga ga" relationship yet. They've not experienced it. And the ONE person that got out of her unhappy marriage has pulled him into her trap.

I joined a church and was going to 2 different support groups. I did not throw this in his face, but if I needed to bring it up, I did. He told a friend that I was living in church. She told him that would be good for anyone. He hung his head and said, "I know, and it seems to be helping her a lot".

I have always been a complainer and griped about EVERYTHING! This is something I'm trying to work through. Hopefully he'll see that.

Okay K, you ignored part of my post that can help you if you truly want to stay married to this man. HAVE you exposed this affair with the OW? As long as he is having an affair he will not consider working on your marriage or reconciling. The destruction of most affairs starts with exposure.

I know your frustration about a "throw away" society then people wonder why the place is going to hades.

I find it interesting that you mention alienation of affection laws. What state do you live in? In my state (one of six, I think) it is still a law and as a matter of fact I am in the middle of suing OM right now.

Hang in there and stay strong for your son.

HOPE,

I have not personally exposed A other than to my family, friends, co-workers. Some of his co-workers have confronted or at least confirmed to me. I've not exposed to his mother or grandmother. That will be my next step. Especially since he is planning to take DS to see grandma 12 hours away in a few weeks. I know if he even admits to it that he'll say it only started AFTER he left. We all know at least the "thought" was there before. He would not have walked out the door had he not had someone to walk into with.

I am in SC...No AA law <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> We used to have it. I'd be ALL OVER IT!!!

And my bet is that if SHE were no longer an option suddenly your M and reconciliation may not look so bad.

Have you exposed to EVERYONE on OW's side husband/boyfriend, mother/father, close friends, church/pastor, grandmother/grandfather, siblings, boss/workpolace?

I'm just assuming this!


I don't know anyone but co-workers and I'm pretty sure they all know.

OK, let me add my .02


however just above you said


See what assumptions got you? When you assume something you make an A$$ of U and Me.

Therefore, you MUST assume the affair is on.


OK, you have to trust people here when they tell you things to do. These people have been/are in the trenches of this battle. Exposure works.


don't settle for pretty sure - know it 100%.

Tell his parents. When you tell his parents, let them know that you KNOW it has been going on since before he left. Inform HR and show them your proof and let them know that you want them to do something about it. Get the PI to find info on OW, and expose to OW's H or XH, OW's parents, anyone and everyone who she wouldn't want to know. Adultery is a nasty thing, and you need to get tough as well. I don't like the sound of your lawyer. If he isn't a bulldog in court, then find someone who is. Make sure that you make it as tough on your husband as possible. Go for full custody and as much money as possible. Introduce his infidelity on the record and get your lawyer to do depositions on your WH and OW under oath. Make it a matter of public record.

All the while, you need to suck it up and plan A. Meet his needs as much as you can for the next 2 months, then go to plan B. All the while you are in plan A you let him know that you believe this can be worked out and you are doing what you are doing to try and keep your family together. Don't be baited into any arguments.

In summary, you should use exposure for their workplace and to really put the pressure to OW. You want her to feel that everyone is looking at her like she's a giant ho-bag. You want her family scolding her for what she's doing. You want your lawyer to drain every last cent out of your WH if he continues down this path even if you don't see it. You want to be a sweet and nice as possible in your dealings with WH, but prepare for plan B.

Some more background of things he's said to me... (early on)

* After our phone call on Sunday, I'm a little worried that you might try and keep me from seeing DS. I know you're hurting and I'm sorry for that but he still needs to be with me on a regular basis and, even though its uncomfortable, I'm not willing to give that up. I really want to work something amicable out. I just hope we can remember that this is between you and I. DS still has two parents that love him very much and this shouldn't change that.

* Home is where he is loved, not where he sleeps. You aren’t his “primary caregiver”, you’re his mother and I’m his father and he needs us both equally. I don’t care about who gets what how often, I care about him having access to the both of us as much as he wants and needs.

* ME - I am and have always been his primary caregiver, not just his mother. Yes you are his father and I know you love him. However, in the past you haven't seemed to be interested in sharing time equally. From what you tell me, this is the root of our problems, me being unhappy when you're not around. He will have access to both of us. Stability is not going between two homes. How is that stable, when he's used to being here, then he goes to you and roommate. That's not good for any child. Stability is having two loving parents at home.

* HIM - The root of our problems isn’t you being unhappy when I’m not around. Its times like these where I come half way and you are unwilling to do more than the bare minimum to get by. I won’t accept the standard visitation schedule.

* ME - I'm a little confused as to why you're so interested in seeing so much of DS now. You never seemed too concerned when you were home. Has any of your activities changed that you can devote so much time to him now?

*HIM - I just want to make sure I’m understanding your concerns correctly:

* You don’t understand why I want to see him now when, in your estimation, I didn’t want to spend time with him before.
* You’re concerned about the environment he’ll be in when he’s with me
* You want to maintain his existing schedule, surroundings, and lifestyle.


Those are valid questions/concerns and I’m happy to discuss them. First, I don’t necessarily agree that I want to see him any more than I have in the past. In fact, I’m essentially asking for the same amount of time I had with him before just amended because there’s two of us who want time with him. On the weeks he’d be with me mostly, I’d see him on Wed, Thurs, Fri, Sat, and Sun. That’s exactly the schedule I’d been keeping with him before I left. Granted there were short periods where I’d be away but, for the most part, I was home for dinner and to put him to bed. I was home on the weekends and I got him ready for school most mornings. I don’t think what I’m asking for is any different than that. To answer your question, no, my schedule hasn’t changed a bit. Aikido on Mon, bowling late Tues. a drink after work on Wed. (which I’ll gladly give up, and have been, to get him) nothing Thurs or Fri, bike ride Sat. morning, nothing Sun. Same schedule as always.

(he's leaving things out of course!)

*HIM - Roommate and I have discussed at length the ‘rules’ when DS is there. No girls (other than our normal friends like XXXXXXX, XXXXX (which happens to be OW), XXXXXX, etc.), no overnight guests, no parties, etc. As the child of a single parent, I fully understand what he needs for stability. If we work together, he can have the same routine no matter where he is. We did a good job getting him this far, we can continue to do so regardless of where he sleeps.

* One last thing. Please remember that I’m not asking for permission, I’m trying to come to an agreement. Neither one of us has any more “say” over DS than the other. He’s not property to be loaned out or given access to “in moderation”. When I left the house I did so knowing that in the short term I’d be giving up time with him to make it easier for every one. That was never, and is not, my long-term goal. So I’ll sum up our differences one more time and I hope we can settle on something:

* Please don't make the mistake of trying to hurt me financially. You know how I feel about money. It won't work. If you're concerned that you don't have enough, please, tell me and we can discuss it like grown adults who've known each other for 15 years. I could have chosen to do a lot of things very differently. I chose to trust that you would consider all the years I've made sure we were taken care of when you made your choices. Please don't make me regret that. (I lost all my trust in him when he WALKED OUT THE DOOR)

I think you should take a minute and re-read what you wrote and tell me if
anything in the last 15 years, or my entire life, would ever lead you to be
scared for your or especially DS's future.

You live in a $xxx,xxx house, you drive a $xx,xxx car, have all of your bills paid, and have every possible convenience. Considering you make $xxx a month, it seems like you are doing pretty good. And yet, you find it necessary to take *our* money based on some notion that you won't be able to
survive.

Considering that you prevent me from seeing DS as often as I'd like, refuse to communicate with me (even when he's sick), and now apparently try to prevent me from entering my own house (YEP...had the locks changed!!) , how would you expect me to deal with you?

You can tell your lawyer and your friends and your family whatever you want about me but you and I both know the truth. You and I both know that I have always been honorable, that I've always treated you with respect, that I've always made sure we never wanted or needed anything. And you and I both know that you never appreciated what you had. You never gave back. You never supported me in anything I tried to do for us or myself.

Please, re-think this. Please, put the money back and we'll discuss how best to use it and how best to make sure you feel taken care of. You've made no offers, you've made no attempt to bargain. Just stating that you need $xxxx a month for 'bills' is not bargaining.

Please don't make this harder than it is.




Sorry for the length, just wanted to share some background.

Don't negotiate with terrorists (WSs). Get a bulldog lawyer and let him do the talking. He will try and manipulate you into letting him out of this marriage as easily as possible. Don't go for it.

This is your mantra:

"I only talk marriage. If you want to talk divorce have your lawyer call my lawyer."

End of conversation.

fog horn alert.

Lot's of WS babble.

Is this something I need to consult with my lawyer about? I hear from lots of people that he's TOUGH...but others I hear he's not tough enough. I know they kinda know what to expect in the end, but how bout FIGHT for me. My little case is nothing to you...it's piddly compared to others you have, but this is MY life!!!


I screwed up on this front in our temporary hearing. Didn't have anyone next to me nudging me. Guess my lawyer wasn't in a fighting mood that morning.






Hey, this is pretty close to what I call her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />



There's not much there and that would eat into anything I'd get.

I still want to handle this in God's way. I'm also being torn between the forgiving part and wanting to make him PAY!!!

[color:"red"] S T O P [/color]

having these custody discussions

[color:"red"] What you say can be twisted, then used against you !!! [/color]

any future attempts to draw you into this sort of debate

[color:"red"] walk away [/color]

and say

[color:"red"] I am not going to discuss legal matters with you [/color]

this is

important you do not discuss anything regarding support, money, division of property, or custody