Exactly... She has already said this. Said where was I when she really needed me. Really tries to twist everything around to make me feel like it is all my fault. I have accepted my part in the breakdown of our marriage... But it takes us both to mess it up. I am also willing to fix me and us to make it work.


We haven't talked about any set arrangments. I have him on weekends and whenever I want after work. So I make it a point to take him out 2-3 times during the week. She knows that I am a good father and would never try to keep him from me. Also..She is a good mother and I would never keep him from her.

I haven't talked to her since Sunday. Waiting on her to contact me. It is hard, but has to be done. Mainly because she is still working there. I have told her and her grandparents that as long as she is working there, I don't have much to say about our situation. They have been pressuring her to find another job and get off her a$$ and do something about her family. Slowly implementing elements of plan B on my own.

Thanks,
Rummi

Read up on plan A and plan B. You are either in plan A or you are in Plan B. Plan B takes preparation. If you are to follow this web site, you can't take a little of this and a little of that. Please decide what plan you are in and stick with that plan. Plan B is implemented for your own protection when you feel your love for your WW is drained to the point where you have to go dark as in stay completely away from her in order to protect any remaining feelings for her.

Is that where you are at right now? I don't really think so. I think you are still in plan A. Now in plan A, you can only meet the emotional needs that the WS will allow you to meet. Is there no need that you feel you can meet right now? Is that why you are not contacting her?

Are you taking care of yourself, being the best man that you can be for yourself? Exercising? Taking your son on fun activities and inviting WW along if she wants to join you?

Lake

Lake-
My main reason for not contacting her is the job. Everytime I think about it, it angers me. Whenever I talk to her after she has been working I say the wrong thing, many LB's come out. There are many needs that I want to meet for her, she just doesn't want them. So I'm in a state of confusion as to what I can do for her. She doesn't talk to me about how she is feeling anymore, so I just don't know. She wants space and no pressure, so I'm trying to give it to her.


Yes...I am improving myself majorly. This has shown me many of my faults, I didn't like myself much either. She does see it too. I always ask her to come with us whenever we are doing anything. She almost went to the movies 2 weeks ago with us. And she said she will go to the movies this week. She hasn't wanted to go see a movie in over two years, and she offered to go with us without me asking.

Plan A - Plan B...Yes I know it is one or the other. And "A" is working great. Again, it's the fact that she won't leave the job that frustrates me. I just can't talk to her while she is there. I know the affair is over and her main reason for staying there is out of spite, because everyone is telling her to leave. She doesn't want to be told what to do. She feels she needs to make her own choices, and quiting is what everyone else wants, not what she wants.

The long haul of Plan "A" >.<

Thanks,
Rummi

Here is an excellent thing for YOU to work on and it is COMPLETELY under YOUR control. Control of your DJ's, AO's, & LB's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Those behaviors remove love units MUCH faster than plan A can replenish them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Learn to control those behaviors and you will be a much better person in general to be around and the love units deposited by plan A will build. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

BTW: I'm not trying to imply that you go around shouting LB's all the time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Stay Strong!

Self Control or Lack Thereof... Just like today. I went and picked up my son to go to the park. I already wasn't having a good day. I get there and I'm not the most happiest person in the world. It's not that I'm shouting or really saying anything at all. It's my quiet attitude and not saying anything that messed up today.

Good Days and Bad Days... I try to be happy all day, but it rips me up inside. So I try not to say anything that would be harmful. My quietness it taken for anger and it's like starting "A" over again. I'm talking with a counselor and got a few self-help books on how to control myself. This is why she left in the first place, my attitude...not loud, don't force it, but she can feel it.

I've already called her and appologized for the way I was today. She said she understands..just one of those days. But it's just like the good things that she does see...she won't say anything about it, but she notices, the good and the bad.

Thanks,
Rummi

So how is YOUR quest for self control going?

Any interesting tidbits from the books your counselor recommended worth sharing with us here?

Stay Strong!

From the book I'm reading:

"I see tons of couples getting married every year and I'll bet 90-plus percent of them spent months, or even years, planning their wedding and almost no time planning their marriage! How crazy is it to spend more time on the caterer and the flowers for a one-hour event and precious little if any time on kids, money, and a life plan. The same is true with your life."

I'm reading mostly about how to change myself and attitude for me. It's not about doing anything...ie.exersizing...for anyone but yourself. I have to change my attitude because I want to change it for myself. Not to make everyone else happy, not because everyone else has a problem with me. But to make me a better and happier person.

It's alot of inner thinking about how I got to where I am now, and what I need to change to not go back that way. Just don't dwell on the past too much, find it and let it go. Mowing the lawn is a great release for this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I talked to her today and everything went well. She is still agreeing to a movie this weekend. The first time we have done anything together in a long time.

I'll let you know when I find some enlightenment and how I got it. It really is a quest.

Thanks,
Rummi

I really don't understand how the person you love so much can change and leave everything. She says she cares about me and what happens to me. As for us and anykind of relationship, even as friends, it will never happen. How can someone change like this and not feel anything anymore?

This is so frustrating and hard. She doesn't even want to just talk, about anything. Doesn't want to give me false hope. Says that she is never coming back. Doesn't want to be friends. Tells me to get over it and move on. I can't just throw away 5 years. I can't just get over my feelings for her.

This is the hardest thing I've felt in my life. It crushes me. The worst is there is nothing I can do about it. I have control over me and how I react, but not what I want or how I feel. I miss her so much. She doesn't want to work on anything, she gave up, doesn't want to try.

Sorry, just needed to vent. She is the only one who I've ever talked to about how I feel, and she doesn't want to hear it.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi,

You do realize that what she is spouting is Classic fog babble, don't you?

WW is very conflicted right now. She is under a gread deal of pressue: Her OM's probably moving away (WITHOUT WW). Her job may very well end. She is living with her grandparents who DO NOT approve of her current course of action. WW's own mother vehemitly disapproves of her OM. And looking at you brings all the guilt crashing down.

Her fantasy is crashing down and she does not know how to put it back together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You don't live in IL do you? Maybe you could sue her OM for Alienation of Affections? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You are doing everything you can do for now. Keep up with your Plan A whenever you interact with her. Continue on your quest for contol over yourself.

Right here is the best place for you to vent. There's a lot of BTDT on this board. You get to learn from OUR mistakes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there Rummi!

WTF-

Thank you so much. I never really looked at all of it how you just put it. Makes a lot of sense, in a confused kind of way.

The OM is leaving by the end of this month, moving to Texas. She is starting back at school next month, and has to leave the job. I know she is depressed about all of that. I just don't like it that when we talk I get her anger instead of her caring.

I used to live in IL, but no, we are in FL. It's a no fault state. I read a little about how that affected separations and divorce, but I still hope it doesn't come to that. The OM, as far as I know, doesn't want to have anything to do with this situation. He says he was trying to be her friend and she got too emotionaly attached. That is what she told me too when I found out...her feelings for him were not returned.

Thanks so much again,
Rummi

Rummi,

OM moving away = No Contact (Monitor as best you can) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No Contact = Withdrawl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Withdrawl + depression + Plan A = Chance to work it out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Leaving / Losing Job = Consequences of A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Her anger is, believe it or not, is a good sign. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> WW considers you a "safe" target for her anger. I would be much more worried if she felt apathy (nothing). Anger is not the opposite of love, Apathy is.

The OM not wanting contact is VERY good for you, if true. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

RUMMI, YOU ARE IN THE HOME STRETCH FOR THE ENDING OF THE A!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Continue Plan A and working on yourself! I think that you have an excellent chance to get into recovery! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You've been dealing with this for months and now we are down to the last few weeks! Just hang in there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

This will be my last post tonight. I'll check back on Monday!

Stay Strong!

WTF-
Yea, things seem to be working out. Once everything has ended there, I think I'll have a better chance.

The weekend went alright. We went to the movies on Saturday. My wife made it a point that she was there to see the movie and be with our son. There was no pretense that this meant or had anything to do with us. She was very non-emotional. So was I.

On Sunday, returned my son and we both were in good moods and everything seemed to be alright. We have been writing each other on the computer. Her last message said that she is tired of arguing and fighting. She just wants us to have a friendly relationship. It's a good start for me and still working on it.

Thanks,
Rummi

The strangest thing happened today. My wife got a message from an old girl friend (before my wife) of mine. When me and my wife first met, I was still talking to this girl. My wife threatened her and I respected her wishs for no contact. We have not seen nor heard from this girl in five years.

Out of nowhere this message comes. She heard that we were not together anymore. My wife was really p'd off, not at me though. She told me about the message and was the absolut friendliest person today. I asked her why it would upset her so much, since we aren't together anymore. It made her stop and think for a second.

She was really jealous. I don't know if that is a bad thing or a good thing. I think I see it as good. She said she wants to be friends again, see where it goes from there. The past year has been a very confusing and trying time, wow, life is strange.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi

Remind me have you all filed for divorce? I keep thinking that is the case. I think the old girl friend emailing your W is rich. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I also think you need to pull back a bit. Don't be mean, be friendly when you see her, plan A. However, I suspect that you might need to really think about this next question. IF you two split, do you really want to be friends with her or even friendly? You will have to be civil to her because you two share a child, but friends???

My question has a purpose. She somehow wants to be friends if you two split. If your feelings are as I suspect, the answer is to tell her you have no intentions of being her friend after all she has done. You will be civil.

Your call, but now would be a good time to let her know your thinking IF you two split. Why? Well, she is going to be losing OM if he actually moves and doesn't take her. She will then want to fall back into a "friendship" with you. However, what you will need from her, is far MORE than that. You see she will have to face herself and her behavior toward you before you should take her back or even be friends.

Recovery is very hard because of the need for the WS to address and change their perspective about boundaries, morals, marriage, and YOU, the BS. You will have much to overcome as well.

I like what I am reading about the turn of events. You have been getting great advice from WTF. Hang in there.

JL

JL-
Excellent...No we have not filed for divorce. I'm not going to and she doesn't want to either. If we were to fully split up and end it completely, I would want to be friends, but I don't think that I could. My emotions and love for her would get in the way, I would want more. I will have to be civil, like you said, for our son.

After she told me about the message, she said we really need to talk. She has never said that we needed to talk about anyhing. I've always tried setting up times for us to get together and talk, she has just been going through everything not wanting to deal with it. We have agreed to talk on Thursday. And what you have just said, gives me alot to think about.

I have a feeling that Thursday she is going to say she loves me, cares for me, but it is really over...lets be friends. I've told her before..If she really wants to end it, go file for divorce, because I'm not going to do it. I still believe and have hope for us.

I could see Thursday as being another way of keeping me along till she figures herself out. I can only be stretched out so far, and it is getting very thin. 8 months since things started to get really bad, 4 months since she left, 1 month since I found out about the affair...it's taking its toll.

Thanks Much,
Rummi

Confused - that is the emotion that I am feeling right now. I called her after work to see where she wanted to talk. She tells me to come over to her grandparents. I go over, and her grandparents are not there. It's just her, our son, and me.

They are out by the pool. She tells me to get a towel and get in. So I hang out there with them for the rest of the day. She just wanted to hang out, just us as a somewhat friendly family. We didn't talk about anything. Just had a good day together. She was open and joking and seemed normal.

When I left, she said that we didn't really talk about anything, so Sunday when she gets our son, we will talk. She has to come over to our house, which up until now has mostly refused to come to, to pick up our son. Again, I am left wondering what she is thinking and what she wants to talk about.

I have felt the worst pain that I have ever felt the past few months. And I am just starting pick up my head again. I have been trying for all this time to accept that she is gone, and get myself and my life straight. Now I don't know what she is doing. Is this normal behaviour? Is she really trying to show me some kind of affection again? How responsive should I be?

Thanks,
Rummi

Just another weekend. My son and I had a great time as always. And the pick up and drop off went alright with my wife. We talked on the phone last night for quite a bit. She still doesn't want to try to work it out. She is afraid and just doesn't see any future with me anymore.

She said that leaving may be the biggest mistake of her life...but she is willing to live with that choice. Not much I can do about it. Just deal with it and move on.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi


Your right you cannot change her, just yourself. I would strongly suggest that you evaluate this marriage, your strengths, your weaknesses, and your aspirations for a new relationship. This marriage may fail, but there is no reason for you to do so. That is one of the major often unstated aspects of this site.

It is to give everyone the best chance of saving their marriage, but it is also to provide tools to make a relationship a really good one. You will not have failed if you come out of this a better man, a better father, and better human being.

I would also like to suggest that you conside spending much less time talking to her if her mind is set on ending the marriage, but right now she has not filed right? Does she even have a lawyer? If not her actions are not matching her words and that is actually a good sign. It suggests that her actions have not been matching her words for a long time, which suggests that she is not as certain as she is saying.

I don't want to offer artificial hope here, but as you work on yourself, as you change your perspective about things in your life, she will note them. You will be accomplishing two things: preparing for a better future, and showing her what she is going to lose. You cannot beat a win-win situation in a bad situation now can you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there, work on yourself, start to plan your life, and be a great father. That is YOUR job, the rest is up to her.

God Bless,

JL

JL-

Thanks again for your responces. You all seem to say exactly what I am thinking at the right time. I know that I am becoming a better person through all of this. It has really made me look around an reevaluate where my family, myself, and our marriage was at.

And you are right... I may end up losing this marriage, but I am not going to fail my son or myself. You are also right about her actions. She still has not filed for divorce, hasn't even looked into it. No lawyers, no actions to really end it legally in any way. Just her leaving, not wanting to fix anything and just giving up.

I know she still loves and cares for me, she is just afraid. Which is why I am staying in a good plan A. There is a reason for her to come back, just have to show her.

She wants me to come over today and "hang out" like we did last Thursday. Just as friends. I want to, just to see them, and spend time with them... but I really want more. As long as I can keep my emotions to myself, I should be alright. It is so damn hard though. Anyway, we'll see what happens later today.

Thanks again to everyone for being here for everyone.
Rummi

I just can't do it anymore. I'm finally giving up. They say that men usually go 6 months... well 4 months is all I can do. I miss and love my wife more than anything, but I can't do it anymore.

She shows no remorse for anything at all... doesn't think that she has done anything at all wrong. She is still playing poker every night. Is planning her and our sons lives without me. The biggest problem that I am having right now is the fact that I'm not raising our son, I'm not able to see him growing up. Her grandparents are.

I had my son this weekend, like all others. Each night he cried for mommy and grandma. All weekend all he talks about are grandma and granddad. It is really getting to me.

Anger and resentment towards her are building on a daily basis. She just doesn't care anymore about anyone but herself. The more that I think about it, the worse I feel about the whole situation. I'm getting to the point where I don't care anymore.

Why do I have to be the nice guy? Why do I have to put up with all her ******, while she still gets to go off and do whatever she wants? I know my wife, and I know that she is not coming back. I'm at the point of acceptance.

I have to give up, because if I don't, I will end up hating her more. I just can't keep going on like this... time to move on to a different life.

Thanks,
Rummi