I first posted here about 3 months ago on the emotional needs board (Lost and Hurt) because my wife had left me. So for the past 3 months I have tried and tried to get her back. As I have recently found out, I never had a chance. She has been cheating on me with her boss for quite some time now, though she says it is just recent.

Thank you to everyone who told me there seemed to be more to the situation than her just being unhappy. Everything you told me was really true. I didn't see it and just tried to be the best to her. She has had no respect for me at all.
Since I found out, just last Thursday, I have fully exposed her to both our families and our friends, although some friends already knew.

I never even looked into plan A and B, because I didn't think anything was going on. Well I exposed her and have been doing plan A without even knowing it. As I started to read here, everything is making more and more sense.

Everything that you have said would happen has. Everthing that you said she would do and say has happened also.
For the fist time in months I am seeing some emotion coming from her. It has been very angry emotions, but there is also compasion and guilt because she really does love me.
Thank you for all the advice that you give to everyone that goes through this. Even after you have fixed your marriages and things have gotten better, or not. You are still here for others. And I thank you.

As for my situation, she called me last night, after work, screaming and yelling. I had just emailed the OM. One simple question to him "What are your intentions with my Wife?" I guess she didn't like it that he knows that I know. I've told her I still have an unconditional forever love for her. That we made promises to each other when we got married. Promises that I am still willing to keep. But, she must stop all contact with him and find another job. Now she has the pressure on her and she feels like dirt because of what she has done. She is supposed to call me today and yell some more about the email. So we'll just see where it goes. Her little fantasy world is crashing down around her.
Thank you all very much for being here for everyone.

I just got the call from her. She wasn't mad or yelling at all. In fact, she sounded like I have for months now, sad and depressed. I told her I want to save our marriage more than anything else. And she offered to get together and talk this afternoon. I have felt like crap for the longest time. Thought I did everything wrong in our marriage and pushed her away. This is the first week that I have actually felt good, strong and in control

Congratulations and Good work. It sounds like you have read up on these boards. Keep posting, you might want to move over to General Questions as it gets more traffic. Hopefully, she will agree to No Contact and you and she can write the NC letter and you can send it out.

Are you two still living apart?

Did you say the affair partner is her boss?
Lake

Lake-
Yes we are still living apart. She is staying with her grandparents. They want nothing more than to see us back together. She has only came to our house 3 or 4 times since she left, and that was only to pick up our son. Says it is too sad and depressing. Now I know that she was really just ashamed.

And yes, it is her boss. He owns the company and is selling it and moving soon. He doesn't want to have any deep relationship with her, was just there for the fun.

Rummi,

Don't you hate it when people are right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I know the folks that posted to you earlier sure do hate that they were right. You have an opportunity but remember the affair was HER decision alone and had nothing to do with you. Your marriage and the state of it was due to your actions as well as hers.

I do hope that she realizes how she was used, and how she has used you as well. I do hope that your exposure has extended to her grandparents. They sound as if they would be good allies in this.

I will warn you her withdrawal once the A is over will take awhile. This will require time and patience and I hope that she will allow you to use both.

Please do go read all of Harley's articles and purchase Surviving an Affair by Harley. There are a few other books that might be of use to you as well.

God Bless,

JL

Just got done talking with her. It didn't go exactly how I was hoping, but it wasn't the worse. She is not seeing him anymore and is quiting the job. But she still won't give us a chance again. She says she loves me, misses me, and really cares what happens to me. She just doesn't see any hope of a future together. The last 2 years just have not been good, and she doesn't want to go back to the way things were.

So what are my options now? I will still see her throughout the week as we share our son. She has just lost all hope in life. Should I back off and give her the space she is wanting? She said I'm being too forward and she needs time to sort things out.

JL-
Her grandparents feel the same way that I do about the whole thing. They have always been there for both of us and still are. Her grandma also said I should let up, I seem to be smothering her.

It's late and I'm tired. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi,

Step back a bit. When you see her be nice, smile, look good, dress well etc. But then just let her be. What you are dealing with is her guilt and that she has to face. You have done plan A well, but you need to keep it up. However, it needs to be done with a light touch sometimes. Sort of like fishing, keep the bait in the water as much as possible, but don't go thrashing around in the water either. OR just don't fall out of the boat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There is more to do, but right now do what you can she will be in withdrawal IF she has really stopped seeing him. It is a hard stage for all concerned.

God Bless,

JL

That reafirms what I knew I had to do. It's time to work on showing her there is a reason to come home. I have been so down and out the past months that I really didn't show her why she should still care. She has said that she sees no change in me at all. I haven't been working on me, just trying to fill her EN's. That just angered her more.

So I've started working out again. Also doing the little things to our house that she always said I didn't do. Going to improve to show her that there is still something here to be happy about. Just not forcing anything or pushing. Time and patience.

Thanks,
Rummi

She just called again. Really P'd off now. Her mom confronted her on the situation. She said I had no right talking to her mom about it. I told her that I have talked to everyone about it. She says I'm an immature a$$. She also said she is working tonight, that she just said she was quiting to get me off her back. She says that it is over between them, but she is not leaving her job. As long as they have contact, it's not over. Back to waiting again.

Thanks,
Rummi

This weekend went quite well. Picked up our son on Friday and was myself again. We talked like we always have and everything was good. After I got home, I got a call from her grandma. She said that my wife told them that is what she wanted. She saw the me that she first fell in love with again. I did the right thing and It really showed.

Then on Sunday when I returned our son, it was completely different. She was very closed to me. Just droped him off, said our hi and good bye, that was it. I know it's not going to be perfect every time we meet. She is going through many emotions and moods.

Overall though, I still feel good about the way things are going. She didn't go in to work on Sunday either. That is a good thing.

Thanks,
Rummi

It is really upsetting that she will not leave the job. She swears that it is over between them, but still has to see him at work. It pisses me off how easily she can throw out our marriage, but she can't quit work.

She has mixed emotions everytime I talk to her. Sometimes I believe that she is warming up to me, other times it is back to the angry wife. I'm getting frustrated and confused. Not sure how to handle it. Don't know what is going on in her mind or what she is thinking.

Am I still doing the right thing by letting up on pressuring her? She kissed me on the neck yesterday. The second kiss and show of some kind of emotion since she left. It felt good to feel that, but is it just a show? Am I enabling her to continue with him by not being more forward? Her grandparents told her she needs to find another job, but she has yet to even attempt to look.

Confused and unsure today. My confidence level has went down a bit >.<

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi,

As you have probably already figured out:

THERE WILL BE NO RECOVERY AS LONG AS THEY WORK TOGETHER!

That is why Harley recommends DRASTIC measures to seperate the waywards: Up to and including MOVING your entire family to seperate the waywards.

As long as the waywards are in contact there is a good chance that the affair will rekindle. You do NOT want that to happen.

It is imparative that the waywards be seperated! You stated that the OM is her Boss. Have you brought this up to the HR people where they work?

Once you tell HR and ask them to do something about this, HR can no longer ignore / feign ignorance of the issue. It will force the company to work for its own self interest. This could result in one or both WS's being let go.
This is actually a good thing in that it will break the daily contact and give your M a chance to recover.

Stay Strong!

WTF-
There is no HR department. He owns the company. There is him, and maybe 8-10 employees. He is selling the company and leaving, not sure when though. All the employees, some of which were good friends, already knew about the whole thing.

Before I knew about the affair, she was telling me how he was selling it. And that she didn't like the new owner, so she was going to quit then. She was really depressed about the situation. I now know that she was depressed because her boyfriend was leaving, that hurts.

I have contacted the OM twice now, through e-mails. Didn't get a response the first time. He responded back the second time saying he had no idea who I was or what I was talking about. I want to contact him again, but don't know if it will help any.

Just have to stay strong and patient. It's so damn hard and hurts so much though.

Thanks,
Rummi

Yesterday went pretty well, I think. I spent the day with my son, my wife, and her grandparents. We talked a little about our future, she is still in withdrawal. Mostly I was there for my son to make his day the best. I still told her that I love her, miss her, and I still have hope for us. I stayed upbeat and happy. The day went good. In the end, we both showed some affection toward each other and left on a good note.

Things seem to be working out. She is noticing the changes and what I am doing to improve. I just need to keep it up and build her hope back. Plan A is working very good.

Thanks,
Rummi

One step forward and five steps back...

What do you do, when after you have built everything up, and everything is finally working out, it gets destroyed in one day by your mother-in-law?

Everything was going perfectly, we were getting close, somewhat, again. Then my mother-in-law desides to take it upon herself to confront and threaten the OM. So my wife thinks I have something to do with the whole thing and is furiously p'd off at me. I don't really know what happened today. My wife hates me right now, again, and I didn't do anything. She is back to severe withdrawal and doesn't want to speak to me.

The only thing I can think of to do is give her space again. She says she needs to be alone to think things out. I fear that this is only going to bring her and the OM closer. I have finally accepted and forgiven what has happened, and I want to fix the situation. How can I even begin to fix it, if I'm not let in?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rummi

So mother-in-law confronted OM. This is just a logical consequence of your WW's actions. Don't apologize for it. Your wife set this all in motion--not you and not her mother. As long as she will not go with no contact, your marriage is in jeopardy
Lake

I've written my plan B letter. Not sure if I should give it to her. I don't think I could go NC from her.

She still will not stop working there, and refuses to come home. I saw her today to get our son. She was quiet, depressed, and wants no comforting from me. Thats what hurts the worst. I don't have her to share anything with anymore. She has closed the door again.

How do I know when to go to plan B? I don't want it to be a mistake out of frustration.

Thanks,
Rummi

The purpose of Plan B is to protect YOURSELF and your remaining love for your WS. A good Plan B needs careful consideration / preparation before implementing.

Some very important things to consider:

Plan B letter: This letter basically states that there is to be no contact whatsoever between you & WS until such a time as conditions YOU state are met (i.e. No Contact with OP, Willingness to work on marriage, marital counseling, etc…). The plan B letter is a “roadmap” to the WS on what YOU need to consider reconciliation

If you’re not sure if you’ve written a good plan B letter, post it. We’ll give you some suggestions / critic. A good rule of thumb with plan B letters: The shorter and more to the point the better.


Intermediary: As you’ve already noticed, any contact with the fogged out WS is caustic and ends up withdrawing units from your LB. The simple solution to this is to not have contact.

That is where the intermediary comes in. The intermediary is the person that your WS has to contact to get a message to you. The job of the intermediary is to pass messages directly from WS to you & from you to WS. The intermediary is NOT to interpret the communications in any way and simply pass the message back and forth.

Do NOT accept direct communications from the WS (phone, email, text messages, direct conversation, etc…) as this breaks plan B and allows WS to get his “family” fix.

If WS phones (make sure you have caller ID) or and unrecognized number comes across, let it go to voicemail. If the VM is from WS delete it. If you pick up the phone and WS is on the other end, Hang UP!

If WS emails: Delete it! A better alternative to this is to block his incoming emails. You can do this various ways depending on the email system you use. Let us know if you need help blocking these. Someone on the board will likely know how to block whatever system you are using.

If WS text messages: Delete it!

Direct Conversation: Turn your back and walk to a supportive group and / or leave.

If you have ANY direct communications your mantra is: “Have you met the conditions of my letter?” If no, hang up / leave.


Visitation: It is best to have a visitation schedule set beforehand. Any deviations need to be arranged through the intermediary. It is usually best to send the kids to the waiting car and upon return have the kids come to the house from the car. I do not recommend allowing the WS in the home. They tend to leave little “surprises” for you to find later.

Make sure that they know that they are not welcome inside your home until the conditions outlined in your letter are met. If the WS comes in anyway, go to another room and shut the door. Again; if you have ANY direct communications your mantra is: “Have you met the conditions of my letter?”


Finances: It is best to have this set beforehand. Any deviations need to be arranged through the intermediary.


Family Relations: State your desire that you do not wish to hear any “news” about your WS. Let them know what it going on and what the intent of your plan is. Thank them for their support.


Plan B tends to drive a WS nuts! They can no longer get their “good normal family” fix. They will try very hard to break your plan b and get back to “cake eating”. Do not let this happen! Give the WS a little preview of what it will be like to actually “lose” his family.

IMHO the timing for Plan "B" does not feel right to me yet.

That doesn't mean that you cannot start to prepare for Plan "B". The timing of Plan "B" is up to you. YOU are the one to make that decision.

I do know that you will not want to start plan "B" after a falling out! You want to start it with the WS remembering a STELLAR Plan "A" experience.

Any Q's? Post back.

Stay Strong!

It doesn't feel like a rollercoaster to me. It's more like a long country road with many hills and curves. Just have to go steady and slow to get to where you want to go. As long as you don't break down along the way.

The weekend went good. Picked up my son on Friday, we had a great time together, and dropped him off on Sunday. It really is sad that he has to go through this because of our problems. I see it in his eyes everytime he has to go, he just doesn't understand.

Things with my wife are what they are. I'm still working plan A, and I can see that she is noticing. She is starting to warm up to me again, somewhat. As for our relationship together, she doesn't see it happening. Wants to be on her own to be her own person.

WTF-
I don't think it's the right time for "B" either right now. I was just frustrated at the way things were going. But I am prepared for it, if need be.

My spirits and hopes are still good. Even if things don't work out, this experience will have made me a better person.

Thanks,
Rummi

That's because you are seperated right now. If you were in closer proximity you would be much more subject to your's and WW's mood swings.

This is good in that you are somewhat insulated from your WW's likely vitrol. Bad in that you are less able to show her your positive changes.

Seperation does not help a couple to recover from marital problems. It mearly lets each deal with the problem unilaterally, without input from the other spouse. An independent behavior which only leads to more marital breakdown IMHO.



Remember Plan A is a marathon. You are in it for the long haul. It usually requires MONTHS of Plan A before before WW will start to think that MAYBE the changes that she sees are for real and they MIGHT be permanent. Also be aware that she may get very ANYGRY at you for this. "WHY DIDN'T YOU DO THIS BEFORE I CHEATED???? WHY DID YOU HAVE TO CHANGE NOW?!!!" Will come to WW's mind. It plays havoc with the justifications that they used to justify their affairs.



I'm glad that you had a good weekend with your son. What are your custody arrangements at this time? Who has your son when? Is there any formal agreement to custody?

Exactly... She has already said this. Said where was I when she really needed me. Really tries to twist everything around to make me feel like it is all my fault. I have accepted my part in the breakdown of our marriage... But it takes us both to mess it up. I am also willing to fix me and us to make it work.


We haven't talked about any set arrangments. I have him on weekends and whenever I want after work. So I make it a point to take him out 2-3 times during the week. She knows that I am a good father and would never try to keep him from me. Also..She is a good mother and I would never keep him from her.

I haven't talked to her since Sunday. Waiting on her to contact me. It is hard, but has to be done. Mainly because she is still working there. I have told her and her grandparents that as long as she is working there, I don't have much to say about our situation. They have been pressuring her to find another job and get off her a$$ and do something about her family. Slowly implementing elements of plan B on my own.

Thanks,
Rummi

Read up on plan A and plan B. You are either in plan A or you are in Plan B. Plan B takes preparation. If you are to follow this web site, you can't take a little of this and a little of that. Please decide what plan you are in and stick with that plan. Plan B is implemented for your own protection when you feel your love for your WW is drained to the point where you have to go dark as in stay completely away from her in order to protect any remaining feelings for her.

Is that where you are at right now? I don't really think so. I think you are still in plan A. Now in plan A, you can only meet the emotional needs that the WS will allow you to meet. Is there no need that you feel you can meet right now? Is that why you are not contacting her?

Are you taking care of yourself, being the best man that you can be for yourself? Exercising? Taking your son on fun activities and inviting WW along if she wants to join you?

Lake

Lake-
My main reason for not contacting her is the job. Everytime I think about it, it angers me. Whenever I talk to her after she has been working I say the wrong thing, many LB's come out. There are many needs that I want to meet for her, she just doesn't want them. So I'm in a state of confusion as to what I can do for her. She doesn't talk to me about how she is feeling anymore, so I just don't know. She wants space and no pressure, so I'm trying to give it to her.


Yes...I am improving myself majorly. This has shown me many of my faults, I didn't like myself much either. She does see it too. I always ask her to come with us whenever we are doing anything. She almost went to the movies 2 weeks ago with us. And she said she will go to the movies this week. She hasn't wanted to go see a movie in over two years, and she offered to go with us without me asking.

Plan A - Plan B...Yes I know it is one or the other. And "A" is working great. Again, it's the fact that she won't leave the job that frustrates me. I just can't talk to her while she is there. I know the affair is over and her main reason for staying there is out of spite, because everyone is telling her to leave. She doesn't want to be told what to do. She feels she needs to make her own choices, and quiting is what everyone else wants, not what she wants.

The long haul of Plan "A" >.<

Thanks,
Rummi

Here is an excellent thing for YOU to work on and it is COMPLETELY under YOUR control. Control of your DJ's, AO's, & LB's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Those behaviors remove love units MUCH faster than plan A can replenish them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Learn to control those behaviors and you will be a much better person in general to be around and the love units deposited by plan A will build. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

BTW: I'm not trying to imply that you go around shouting LB's all the time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Stay Strong!

Self Control or Lack Thereof... Just like today. I went and picked up my son to go to the park. I already wasn't having a good day. I get there and I'm not the most happiest person in the world. It's not that I'm shouting or really saying anything at all. It's my quiet attitude and not saying anything that messed up today.

Good Days and Bad Days... I try to be happy all day, but it rips me up inside. So I try not to say anything that would be harmful. My quietness it taken for anger and it's like starting "A" over again. I'm talking with a counselor and got a few self-help books on how to control myself. This is why she left in the first place, my attitude...not loud, don't force it, but she can feel it.

I've already called her and appologized for the way I was today. She said she understands..just one of those days. But it's just like the good things that she does see...she won't say anything about it, but she notices, the good and the bad.

Thanks,
Rummi

So how is YOUR quest for self control going?

Any interesting tidbits from the books your counselor recommended worth sharing with us here?

Stay Strong!

From the book I'm reading:

"I see tons of couples getting married every year and I'll bet 90-plus percent of them spent months, or even years, planning their wedding and almost no time planning their marriage! How crazy is it to spend more time on the caterer and the flowers for a one-hour event and precious little if any time on kids, money, and a life plan. The same is true with your life."

I'm reading mostly about how to change myself and attitude for me. It's not about doing anything...ie.exersizing...for anyone but yourself. I have to change my attitude because I want to change it for myself. Not to make everyone else happy, not because everyone else has a problem with me. But to make me a better and happier person.

It's alot of inner thinking about how I got to where I am now, and what I need to change to not go back that way. Just don't dwell on the past too much, find it and let it go. Mowing the lawn is a great release for this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I talked to her today and everything went well. She is still agreeing to a movie this weekend. The first time we have done anything together in a long time.

I'll let you know when I find some enlightenment and how I got it. It really is a quest.

Thanks,
Rummi

I really don't understand how the person you love so much can change and leave everything. She says she cares about me and what happens to me. As for us and anykind of relationship, even as friends, it will never happen. How can someone change like this and not feel anything anymore?

This is so frustrating and hard. She doesn't even want to just talk, about anything. Doesn't want to give me false hope. Says that she is never coming back. Doesn't want to be friends. Tells me to get over it and move on. I can't just throw away 5 years. I can't just get over my feelings for her.

This is the hardest thing I've felt in my life. It crushes me. The worst is there is nothing I can do about it. I have control over me and how I react, but not what I want or how I feel. I miss her so much. She doesn't want to work on anything, she gave up, doesn't want to try.

Sorry, just needed to vent. She is the only one who I've ever talked to about how I feel, and she doesn't want to hear it.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi,

You do realize that what she is spouting is Classic fog babble, don't you?

WW is very conflicted right now. She is under a gread deal of pressue: Her OM's probably moving away (WITHOUT WW). Her job may very well end. She is living with her grandparents who DO NOT approve of her current course of action. WW's own mother vehemitly disapproves of her OM. And looking at you brings all the guilt crashing down.

Her fantasy is crashing down and she does not know how to put it back together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You don't live in IL do you? Maybe you could sue her OM for Alienation of Affections? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You are doing everything you can do for now. Keep up with your Plan A whenever you interact with her. Continue on your quest for contol over yourself.

Right here is the best place for you to vent. There's a lot of BTDT on this board. You get to learn from OUR mistakes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there Rummi!

WTF-

Thank you so much. I never really looked at all of it how you just put it. Makes a lot of sense, in a confused kind of way.

The OM is leaving by the end of this month, moving to Texas. She is starting back at school next month, and has to leave the job. I know she is depressed about all of that. I just don't like it that when we talk I get her anger instead of her caring.

I used to live in IL, but no, we are in FL. It's a no fault state. I read a little about how that affected separations and divorce, but I still hope it doesn't come to that. The OM, as far as I know, doesn't want to have anything to do with this situation. He says he was trying to be her friend and she got too emotionaly attached. That is what she told me too when I found out...her feelings for him were not returned.

Thanks so much again,
Rummi

Rummi,

OM moving away = No Contact (Monitor as best you can) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No Contact = Withdrawl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Withdrawl + depression + Plan A = Chance to work it out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Leaving / Losing Job = Consequences of A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Her anger is, believe it or not, is a good sign. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> WW considers you a "safe" target for her anger. I would be much more worried if she felt apathy (nothing). Anger is not the opposite of love, Apathy is.

The OM not wanting contact is VERY good for you, if true. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

RUMMI, YOU ARE IN THE HOME STRETCH FOR THE ENDING OF THE A!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Continue Plan A and working on yourself! I think that you have an excellent chance to get into recovery! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You've been dealing with this for months and now we are down to the last few weeks! Just hang in there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

This will be my last post tonight. I'll check back on Monday!

Stay Strong!

WTF-
Yea, things seem to be working out. Once everything has ended there, I think I'll have a better chance.

The weekend went alright. We went to the movies on Saturday. My wife made it a point that she was there to see the movie and be with our son. There was no pretense that this meant or had anything to do with us. She was very non-emotional. So was I.

On Sunday, returned my son and we both were in good moods and everything seemed to be alright. We have been writing each other on the computer. Her last message said that she is tired of arguing and fighting. She just wants us to have a friendly relationship. It's a good start for me and still working on it.

Thanks,
Rummi

The strangest thing happened today. My wife got a message from an old girl friend (before my wife) of mine. When me and my wife first met, I was still talking to this girl. My wife threatened her and I respected her wishs for no contact. We have not seen nor heard from this girl in five years.

Out of nowhere this message comes. She heard that we were not together anymore. My wife was really p'd off, not at me though. She told me about the message and was the absolut friendliest person today. I asked her why it would upset her so much, since we aren't together anymore. It made her stop and think for a second.

She was really jealous. I don't know if that is a bad thing or a good thing. I think I see it as good. She said she wants to be friends again, see where it goes from there. The past year has been a very confusing and trying time, wow, life is strange.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi

Remind me have you all filed for divorce? I keep thinking that is the case. I think the old girl friend emailing your W is rich. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I also think you need to pull back a bit. Don't be mean, be friendly when you see her, plan A. However, I suspect that you might need to really think about this next question. IF you two split, do you really want to be friends with her or even friendly? You will have to be civil to her because you two share a child, but friends???

My question has a purpose. She somehow wants to be friends if you two split. If your feelings are as I suspect, the answer is to tell her you have no intentions of being her friend after all she has done. You will be civil.

Your call, but now would be a good time to let her know your thinking IF you two split. Why? Well, she is going to be losing OM if he actually moves and doesn't take her. She will then want to fall back into a "friendship" with you. However, what you will need from her, is far MORE than that. You see she will have to face herself and her behavior toward you before you should take her back or even be friends.

Recovery is very hard because of the need for the WS to address and change their perspective about boundaries, morals, marriage, and YOU, the BS. You will have much to overcome as well.

I like what I am reading about the turn of events. You have been getting great advice from WTF. Hang in there.

JL

JL-
Excellent...No we have not filed for divorce. I'm not going to and she doesn't want to either. If we were to fully split up and end it completely, I would want to be friends, but I don't think that I could. My emotions and love for her would get in the way, I would want more. I will have to be civil, like you said, for our son.

After she told me about the message, she said we really need to talk. She has never said that we needed to talk about anyhing. I've always tried setting up times for us to get together and talk, she has just been going through everything not wanting to deal with it. We have agreed to talk on Thursday. And what you have just said, gives me alot to think about.

I have a feeling that Thursday she is going to say she loves me, cares for me, but it is really over...lets be friends. I've told her before..If she really wants to end it, go file for divorce, because I'm not going to do it. I still believe and have hope for us.

I could see Thursday as being another way of keeping me along till she figures herself out. I can only be stretched out so far, and it is getting very thin. 8 months since things started to get really bad, 4 months since she left, 1 month since I found out about the affair...it's taking its toll.

Thanks Much,
Rummi

Confused - that is the emotion that I am feeling right now. I called her after work to see where she wanted to talk. She tells me to come over to her grandparents. I go over, and her grandparents are not there. It's just her, our son, and me.

They are out by the pool. She tells me to get a towel and get in. So I hang out there with them for the rest of the day. She just wanted to hang out, just us as a somewhat friendly family. We didn't talk about anything. Just had a good day together. She was open and joking and seemed normal.

When I left, she said that we didn't really talk about anything, so Sunday when she gets our son, we will talk. She has to come over to our house, which up until now has mostly refused to come to, to pick up our son. Again, I am left wondering what she is thinking and what she wants to talk about.

I have felt the worst pain that I have ever felt the past few months. And I am just starting pick up my head again. I have been trying for all this time to accept that she is gone, and get myself and my life straight. Now I don't know what she is doing. Is this normal behaviour? Is she really trying to show me some kind of affection again? How responsive should I be?

Thanks,
Rummi

Just another weekend. My son and I had a great time as always. And the pick up and drop off went alright with my wife. We talked on the phone last night for quite a bit. She still doesn't want to try to work it out. She is afraid and just doesn't see any future with me anymore.

She said that leaving may be the biggest mistake of her life...but she is willing to live with that choice. Not much I can do about it. Just deal with it and move on.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi


Your right you cannot change her, just yourself. I would strongly suggest that you evaluate this marriage, your strengths, your weaknesses, and your aspirations for a new relationship. This marriage may fail, but there is no reason for you to do so. That is one of the major often unstated aspects of this site.

It is to give everyone the best chance of saving their marriage, but it is also to provide tools to make a relationship a really good one. You will not have failed if you come out of this a better man, a better father, and better human being.

I would also like to suggest that you conside spending much less time talking to her if her mind is set on ending the marriage, but right now she has not filed right? Does she even have a lawyer? If not her actions are not matching her words and that is actually a good sign. It suggests that her actions have not been matching her words for a long time, which suggests that she is not as certain as she is saying.

I don't want to offer artificial hope here, but as you work on yourself, as you change your perspective about things in your life, she will note them. You will be accomplishing two things: preparing for a better future, and showing her what she is going to lose. You cannot beat a win-win situation in a bad situation now can you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there, work on yourself, start to plan your life, and be a great father. That is YOUR job, the rest is up to her.

God Bless,

JL

JL-

Thanks again for your responces. You all seem to say exactly what I am thinking at the right time. I know that I am becoming a better person through all of this. It has really made me look around an reevaluate where my family, myself, and our marriage was at.

And you are right... I may end up losing this marriage, but I am not going to fail my son or myself. You are also right about her actions. She still has not filed for divorce, hasn't even looked into it. No lawyers, no actions to really end it legally in any way. Just her leaving, not wanting to fix anything and just giving up.

I know she still loves and cares for me, she is just afraid. Which is why I am staying in a good plan A. There is a reason for her to come back, just have to show her.

She wants me to come over today and "hang out" like we did last Thursday. Just as friends. I want to, just to see them, and spend time with them... but I really want more. As long as I can keep my emotions to myself, I should be alright. It is so damn hard though. Anyway, we'll see what happens later today.

Thanks again to everyone for being here for everyone.
Rummi

I just can't do it anymore. I'm finally giving up. They say that men usually go 6 months... well 4 months is all I can do. I miss and love my wife more than anything, but I can't do it anymore.

She shows no remorse for anything at all... doesn't think that she has done anything at all wrong. She is still playing poker every night. Is planning her and our sons lives without me. The biggest problem that I am having right now is the fact that I'm not raising our son, I'm not able to see him growing up. Her grandparents are.

I had my son this weekend, like all others. Each night he cried for mommy and grandma. All weekend all he talks about are grandma and granddad. It is really getting to me.

Anger and resentment towards her are building on a daily basis. She just doesn't care anymore about anyone but herself. The more that I think about it, the worse I feel about the whole situation. I'm getting to the point where I don't care anymore.

Why do I have to be the nice guy? Why do I have to put up with all her ******, while she still gets to go off and do whatever she wants? I know my wife, and I know that she is not coming back. I'm at the point of acceptance.

I have to give up, because if I don't, I will end up hating her more. I just can't keep going on like this... time to move on to a different life.

Thanks,
Rummi

The end has started. I gave her the divorce forms yesterday. Told her she needs to fill them out and take them to the courthouse. The first thing she said was "why? what happened?" Hmmm I wonder what happened.

I'm giving her one week. If she doesn't file, or want to try to work on us again, then I am filing. This really hurts, but there is no other choice. I can't live like this anymore. I have to let her go. I have to die to what I want. Or else this will just consume me.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi,

Why don't you tell her why and what happened and how you feel? You might as well be honest with her and let her know how her actions and words have hurt you. It may help nothing, but it will help both of you in the future to have cleared the air. Be kind, be civil, be focused on the information you want to convey, and be nonjudgmental.

Now that last one is probably got you scratching your head right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I mean don't blame her, simply tell her how her actions made you feel. You said this and I felt, that. You did this, and I interpretted it to mean that. I have struggling internally with how I feel because of...self-confindence, pain, conflicting feelings, etc.

Make it about yourself with input as to how you interpretted her actions and words.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

God works in mysterious ways... again.

I get a call last night around 8p.m. My wife is hysterical and crying. She was just rearended - again - on her way to play poker. The day she left, March 28, she was rearended. 4 months, 2 days later... and one day after I gave her divorce papers... it happens again.

My wife and I both went to catholic schools growing up. Neither one of us has been very spiritual, although I am moreso than her - my boss is a minister and I work in a very tight, religious company. When the first wreck happened, I saw it as a sign from God. She didn't believe it and would hear nothing about it. She told me last week that she went to church and prayed about our situation, asking for some kind of answer or sign. Neither one of us has gone to church in many years. I believe this was it, again.

Maybe she will see it this time and take it for what it is worth.

JL-

She does know how and why I feel the way I do. I have told her many times. What she doesn't understand now is that I have been trying and trying to get her back, plan A, plan A, plan A. And now I'm giving up. I've reached my breaking point.

I've asked her what does she want me to do. Sit here for years and wait for her to get whatever it is out of her system, then just take her back. She knows that I'll always be here for her, but I can't do it anymore without her.

Thanks,
Rummi

She has left it for what it is worth.

We got into the whole divorce issue last night. She wants 1/2 the value of the house or a buy out of all her credit card debt, full child support and full alimony. She is going to go for full custody of our son with visitation rights for me.

I never thought she would treat me this way. She knows what I can and can't afford. She is going to completely ruin me. She needs money to live and she is going to try to get it any way she can. She says she doesn't want this to get ugly, but she is not leaving me many options.

I guess it is really time to look at this legally and get myself protected. Very frustrating.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi

Stop. Breathe. Really, really, think about what is going on here.

WW is in FULL REACTIVE MODE. WW is reacting to the DV petition she was served with. WW was formerly in “cake eating” mode. Enjoying your support while she was “trying to figure things out”, now she has to REALLY consider the cost of her adulterous actions and it is a scary thing for her to contemplate.

WW telling you about what she is going to ask for in the DV is yet another attempt to put herself back in “control” of the current sitch. WW is attempting to scare you and get you to capitchulate to a DV on her terms.

Now the real question to answer here is for you to answer: Are you really done? Do you really have nothing left? No hope for reconciliation under any circumstances? I don’t get that impression. I think that YOU are REACTING to WW’s REACTION.

Reacting to WW is a dangerous behavioral pattern in this case that you need to break immediately. When you think about it, WW’s reaction to the DV petition is typical and predictable. YOUR expectations of her reaction are what are leading to YOUR frustrations.

Now with that said: What do YOU need in order to keep your family intact?

If there is truly nothing that would make you consider this then simply go through with the DV.

If there IS something(s) that you need to keep your family intact: Tell WW & family in a factual, non emotional, undemanding way. STOP talking DV with WW. That is what your lawyer is for.

Even if “papers” are in play this is not over until the final DV decree is signed. You can stop and / or hold this action at any point if you get what you need to consider reconciliation.

How are things with WW’s affair now?

Has the OM left?

Has there been any contact of which you / family are aware?

Is she still working or has she started school again?

Remember that even if the OM has gone your WW will still have to go through withdrawal from him. Withdrawal will likely take weeks or even months! WW will be unable to even start to think about your / family needs until she has gotten through this.

How are you doing with controlling your AO’s, DJ’s, & LB’s?

Since giving WW the DV papers are you still working on controlling them? Or are you just letting them fly?

Stay Strong!

Stopping, breathing, thinking.

No, I am not done. I will never accept this and just move on. I still love her and want her back more than anything.

A couple of things that I have learned since last week.... she has already had the DV papers for about 2 months now. She never said anything or filed them, because she was waiting for me to give up and end it. She didn't want to be the bad guy and hurt me. I believe that she never did anything with them because she still does have some kind of hope for us.

She quit her job last week. This sunday is her last day. There has been no contact with OM, of which I am very sure of. She starts school in two weeks. She mainly wants the divorce for money... single mother, going to school, gets financial aid..plus child support. She needs to feel she is on her own and capable.

I haven't talked to her about DV or trying to get her to come back. I'm just being myself and loving her. We had lunch togther Sat. and spent the day together yesterday. It went very well. We always get along great. We were very affectionate and close. In the end, we kissed, said we loved each other, and I went home.

Today we are going together to enroll our son in school. I am very excited about this. It is awesome seeing him growing up.

I still don't understand her. One day she is angry and the next she is not. But no matter what mood she is in, she always says that she does not want to come back.

I am still hoping, loving, and trying.

Thanks,
Rummi

She is filing for divorce today. I put my house up for sale last week. Not much else is new. Just getting by. I really never saw this turning out this way.

I love her and miss her more than anything... but there is nothing I can do about it.

Thanks,
Rummi

Divorce is a freight train barreling at you at full steam, and all you have to deflect it with is a wiffle bat.

Hey Rummi!

How are you doing?

Hello everyone. It's been a while since I've written. I've been really busy. My son started school on Monday. He kicked, screamed and yelled when we left him there. But then he didn't want to leave when we went to pick him up. He is really enjoying it and likes school a lot now.

My wife and I are somewhat dating/seeing each other again. We've been going out to lunch and dinner throughout the past couple of weeks. We both still love each other very much. She is no longer working at that job, it's been two weeks now. She started school yesterday, which I helped pay for her to get into.

These past two weeks have been very good between me and her, flirting, touching, and just being together again. Yesterday being the best.... as we were very intimate and close with each other... I jumped in the shower with her and she really couldn't do anything about it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We went out drinking yesterday and talked a little about our situation. She is considering coming back home, but doesn't want to lead me on, or give me false hope. She has noticed the changes in me and asked me why wasn't I like this before all this happened. I really haven't changed that much, I'm just back to myself... the me that she first fell in love with when we met. She sees it, she knows it and now she is really thinking about it.

She says that she is still filing for divorce. She needs to prove to herself that she can be on her own, and be her own person. She says she is 90% done with the paperwork, but she has been saying that for a couple of weeks now. So I really don't know. Neither one of us has lawyers and we haven't said much about it.

I haven't moved out of our house yet. I have been packing and moving boxes into a storage unit. She doesn't want to see the house go, and neither do I. So I'm not rushing to get out of it.

Her grandfather just had surgery last week, lung biopsy. He is not doing good and may not make it another month. It is a down time for the family. I am there for her and them all. So I've been spending a good bit of time over there.

It has been a very emotional and busy time. But I feel good with the way things are between us. I feel good about myself and am still looking toward the future.

Thank you all again. I do still come here and read a lot. I just haven't had time to write much. I'll keep you posted on the way things are going, it is looking good.

Thanks,
Rummi

She's playing you for financial support.

Fight with every ounce of your soul or you will be played like a fool.

I didn't have an attorney at first and she was skewing everything in her favor and trying to sweet talk me into signing them by saying that we might just get back together after a trial divorce period.

Basically her papers only allowed me the clothes on my back.


If your's truly wants to be independent, then you should divide everything 50/50 and pay minimal CS so she can't finance an affair.

Bah... I know that I'm not being played, finacially or emotionaly.

You are right though, I am fighting. I am fighting for my family and our love. I am rebuilding her love for me. I see it more everytime I see her.

So many people tell me that I am wasting my time and just to let her go. File the divorce, forget her and move on with my life without her. I can't do that. Yes, somedays it is depressing and sad. Somedays I wonder if this is all worth it... still trying, still hoping, still being there for her. Then I think about what we had, and what we still do have together. And Yes, it is all worth it.

To me, Divorce is final. There is no going back once those papers are signed, no trial divorce. She still hasn't done anthing with them, because she knows that it will truely be over between us. She doesn't want that, I know it, and she knows it.

As for splitting everything 50/50. She will be getting nothing from me if it goes to court. She may not even get child support, as I can get primary custody of our son. I am very well protected financialy if it all turns this way.

I still love my wife and am still trying.

Thanks,
Rummi

That was exactly how I felt and still feel......my EX is the one who filed.....I told her anything is possible until you ask me to sign the papers for you to turn in. She called my bluff........I signed, that was it, and I never, ever looked back. To me that was the signal that she completely gave up.

Oh well, it was all for the better in my case. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Keep up the good work Rummi!

Rummi, I just read your thread... you are doing great...you have also received some great advice....

I just wanted to toss you some encouragement.... you are way ahead of where most people are in the time since D-Day.

You've done a great Plan A, and are on the right course... Keep up the good work!

SD

Hello everyone. Things are still progressing forward. I am dating my wife. It feels good to be close again. Not as close as we once were, but we still feel for each other.

I had a good weekend with my son and we all spent Sunday together. Had dinner and things went well. We both have our guard towards each other and we still have some trust issues we are dealing with.... me more so than her. I believe we know where we stand with each other as we are right now.

Something really bothered me last night though. Some friends and I were hanging out. These are close friends of my wifes and mine. They are also the friends that always went and played poker with my wife. We all start talking about everything that is going on.... and I hear things that I never knew was really going on.

Come to find out that I have a lot of people that really hate me. People that I have never met before. When things were not going well between us... when we had just split up... and somewhat afterward... she talked alot of ****** about me. Really just ran me through the dirt.

It was to people that she works with. Her players that she deals cards to. And to our friends. Our friends just ignored it as her anger because they know that it's not true and they know me. Friends say that I have people out there that if they ever saw me and knew it was me, they would probably come after me because of how badly she talked about me.

So it comes back to the trust thing that I am trying to deal with lately. I know I won't trust her as much as I did, but hearing all this and finding out more and more little things, just makes it harder. Again I never thought that someone that I love and loves me back, would treat me this way.

Now I'm thinking about what she still tells people about me. What she is still doing when she is off doing whatever. Trust is a hard thing to gain back. And I know it is going to take time for us both. It just really bothers me.

Should I confront her and ask/try to talk to her about any of this? Does it even matter anymore, now that our relationship is getting better? Should I just let it go and slowly build up the trust again? I really don't think I would believe anything she told me about it anyway.

Those are just some thoughts on my mind lately. Thanks for listening.

Rummi

Hey Rummi!

Good to here from you again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Don't sweat the "trash talk" she did about you. It's SOP for waywards and one of the ways she was justifying what she was doing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

The ones who know you already know the talk for what it is... and the one's who don't know / interact with you... does it really matter?

Should you ever really start meeting with those folks then it will be YOUR (F)WW who needs to step up and do the damage control. This will be ONE of the ways that she can make amends / rebuild the trust.

Protecting you spouse is one of the basic rules of marriage building! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

There will be a time when you can address this issue but for now I would be concentrating on rebuilding your relationship with each other.

I think you're doing a great job and I like the sounds of the progress you're BOTH making.

Keep up the good work!

WTF-

Thanks again.. like always you seem to mirror my thoughts and reasure what I know I should keep doing.


Exactly! A couple months ago I would of flipped out and really screwed things up. But now, with the time that has went by... it doesn't matter. So I can let it go.

Thanks,
Rummi

I have kept up with your thread,,so glad you are keeping us updated,,lots don't and I wonder about them and how they are doing.

don't let what your wife has said about you get you down,,they do say horrible things,,,how could they tell people they have left a wonderful S for another? It somehow would not be right.

I am also a little concerned about your friends,,what was their purpose for telling you this? One of my major pet peeves is that I don't tell someone something for the soul purpose of hurting them,,If I need to tell someone something like that it needs to serve a purpose,,a need to know. So ignore that aspect of it,,that was in the begining when she had to do it to justify.

Hey Rummi!

Just thought that I would put out a call and see how you are doing this week?

Ups & down's ???

Progress? (Hopefully) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Stay Strong!

Good day again. Still progressing. Couple of responces first...

Doingfine---
Conserning the friends reasoning for saying things... My best friends wife is my wifes best friend. It has been the four of us for many years. 3 years ago, my friends wife cheated on him. She was bartending, found someone else and left him. They worked it out and are still together. He has never forgiven her, and she just stayed with him for there son.

The past year... my wife and his wife have been dealing poker in bars together. The only reason he let her go was because he also went every night. I trusted my wife and let her go do her thing (our friends were around, what could happen)... we all know where that led.

So now they are having problems again. She just kicked him out last week. He blames it all on my wife. So he is angry at her and will say anything he can to get me to feel the same way. Honestly... things have not been right between them since everything happened 3 years ago. They just buried it and went on. Neither one of them is happy.

So that is why he has been saying what he has. I'm not worried about it, he's just p'd off.

Anyway... my wife and I are still doing well, at least as well as it can be for now. She has been calling me more and wanting to do more with me for a change instead of me always taking the initiative. She asked me to lunch for tomorrow. It's still not at that great closeness level, but it is getting better every day.

She has been looking for a job and going to school. She is not going to come back to the house... of that I am sure, at least not yet. She is looking for apartments, and will probably be getting one with my friends wife. I'm not pushing her or telling her what to do in anyway. I let her know how I feel about things. I show her that I am here for her and still love her.

I read here constantly. Everyone here is great. All the advice on this site and from everyone has really helped and made a difference.

Still hoping, trying, and loving.
Rummi

Good Evening. The weekend was good. My son is growing up so fast.

Sundays have been going well with my wife. That is the one day that we spend most of together. We were very close and it was good again. Today didn't go too well.

She called me at work today and wanted me to come over this afternoon. OK, so I did. We go out to dinner and in the middle of it, she breaks down. She doesn't know what she is doing or where she is going with her life.

She asks me about our relationship and what I think and want to do about it. She knows and I told her again how I feel. She says she only has two choices to make. Divorce or come home. This is the first time that she has ever said coming home was any kind of a choice.

We got back to her grandparents and she broke down in tears again. Tears because she loves me and doesn't want to hurt me with a divorce. Tears because she is still not sure about coming home.

I have been too forward lately and it is time to back down again. I was getting caught up in the good times we have been haveing lately, and didn't see it was too much to fast for her. She vented and released her frustrations and stress on me. I see that as being good, she is still willing to be open and talk with me.

It's late, I'm tired, write again later in the week.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi,

I don't see her as having two choices. I see her as having many choices and she needs to realize this. One is to divorce. Two is to come home (to the same situation). 3. Is to rebuild the relationship while stating in the status she is in. 4. Is to come home and work with you to make both of you happy in the marriage and succeed.
5. Is to come home and work with you to make both of you happy in the marriage and fail, and then leave KNOWING she did the best she could. 6. Is to sacrifice herself, do little, remaing a family for the child and be miserable.

She has many choices, not all of them revolve around the marriage. To put it another way she can chose;

1. Happy or unhappy

2. Married or married

3. Married separated or togther.

4. Divorced but in contact.

5. divorced but NOT in contact.

6. Married and togther but unhappy

7. Married and together and happy.

The combinations are endless and they all don't revolve around the marriage, but most are linked to it. All that is but her unhappiness, that is within her and being married or divorced will NOT make her happy.

Discuss the possibilities that she can be happy with you or without you.

Just some thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

Good Day. Another emotional couple of weeks. Mostly for her. I talked with her about happiness and what she wants, needs, and what I could do for her. Everything went well. We were close, talking and together.

The week after that really has been one of the best together.

But since then, she has been very emotional... ups and downs. She says she is confused and doesn't know what to do.

I talked to her last week about how my feelings of trust are toward her and that didn't go well. Just angered her and she has had an attitude with me most of the weekend.

Went to lunch yesterday and she was very quiet. Calls last night in tears saying she is filing for divorce this weekend. Says she is really sorry it has to be this way, but she see no other way. She says she loves me more than anything, but we just can't be together. She can't live like this anymore.

To me, I get the feeling that she was starting to feel more for me again. It scares her, angers her, so she is back to being mad. Last night she was yelling about absolutely nothing... just to yell. I got her calmed down and we were back to ourselves again.... laughing, talking and nice again.

I told her I'm not talking with her about divorce. I have nothing to say about it. She can file, I'll get the papers/lawyers then deal with it.

One day things are alright... the next they are not. I don't know what she is doing or thinking and neither does she. I've tried getting her to go to counseling with me or just on her own. But she won't.

I'm staying over at her grandparents this week because her granddad is going into surgery. She says that she needs me there because she can't handle it.

I've got to go..... just some thoughts and updates.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi,

I think she is depressed and cannot see her options clearly. If you read my post to you about options and the large variety of them, I think you need to make her aware of them, but more importantly perhaps encourage her to see a counselor. Tell her to do it so that she can be happy no matter what she decides. Do her a huge favor and get her help so that she can make a decision she will feel good about. Right now neither decision feels "good" to her.

Yes go with her and support her. Be her rock. I know this is tough on you, but the better you are to her, the better you will feel. She will not because you are not living up to her rewritten history but such is life.

hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

When we talked about her happiness, I discussed all the different options. That is what really through her into confusion. She said she hears and understands what I am saying, but still does not know what to do. Said she never really looked at it that way

Me being there for her, and being a better person has made her angry, sad and depressed. She has said she wished I hated her so this would be easier for her. Which again confuses her.

This whole thing is tough on me, her, our son, our families, everyone involved. I am calm and in control of myself. I know what I am doing, and I know what I am going to do, no matter what the outcome.

I am her rock, I am here for her, and she knows it.

Thanks,
Rummi

Hey Rummi,

Good to hear from you.

That emotional rollercoaster is quite a wild ride isn't it? Up one day and then plunging down the next. But just one quick observition based up your posts.

The time interval between these Highs & Lows is gradually getting longer isn't it? This is very normal for where you are in "the process".

It is my belief that the act of infidelity is not what does the greatest damage to the M. It is the lying / covering up afterward that does the greatest damage, To WW and yourself.

With that said: Here are a few things that can help you and your spouse.

1. WW must be totally honest with you about everything
2. WW must answer every question that you ask truthfully and fully.
3. WW must do everything in her power to prove to you that you are the one that WW want to be with.
4. WW must prove her love to you ... She must be patient, gentle, compassionate and understanding.
5. WW must feel your pain.
6. WW must fully understand the devastation that she caused you.
7. WW must accept full responsibility for her actions.
8. WW must stop all contact with OP and not try to protect them.
9. WW must reassure you that it is OK to ask questions.
10. WW must reassure you that she will not drive you away by doing the things that are necessary to heal.
11. WW must recognize when you're struggling or experiencing a trigger and comfort you.
12. WW must be able to tell you how sorry she is and show you.
13. WW must re-enforce to you, that you were not responsible.
14. WW must put her own feelings of guilt and shame aside and help you heal first.
15. WW must reconnect emotionally, mentally, and physically with you and stay connected.
16. WW must work on rebuilding trust. No secrets. No privacy.

Here is a list of things that YOU must do:

1. Give WW the necessary time to prove her love and commitment to you.
2. Be open with your feelings.
3. Ask the questions that are important to you.
4. Don't be afraid that WW will drive you away while you are trying to heal.
5. Stop blaming yourself for WW actions. You is in no way responsible for your WW's choice to engage in an affair!
6. You must be able to let yourself connect with WW. (this one takes time)
7. You must continue checking up on WW in order to let you rebuild trust.
8. You must be willing to seek counseling so that you do not get stuck in one of the stages of recovery: such as anger or depression.

These are just a few of the things that I have thought of off the top of my head. With these things in place, then reconciliation can be successful. It is still a long journey, but with baby steps it can be achieved.

BTW: Don't expect everything to happen at once. This is a process for BOTH of you.

I think that you are doing very well at this point and I am confident that if you BOTH control your frustrations you will get through this and have a much closer / happier marriage.

Stay Strong!

uuummm yea, so I was over at her grandparents this evening. Had dinner, then afterward we are talking and she starts about the divorce again. I said I am not talking about it with her. She said she went and filed today. I will be served early next week.

I guess that's it then. I'll be going over everything I recieve with my lawyer and that will be that. Wow, I really don't understand. No chances. Just the end.

This is the worst emotional pain I have ever felt. I just don't get it.

Confused,
Rummi

Rummi:

Wow! What a difference a couple of days make!

Remember that emotional roller coaster? Sit down, strap in, and Hang on!

IF, and I mean IF, she did file don't change your game plan! Stay in Plan A. IT HAS BEEN WORKING!

One question that you may what to ask yourself is: Where did WW get the $ to file? That may give you a better idea whom your real allies are (Hint: not the ones who enable this kind of behavior).

Her actions may be unexpected but they are not unheard of. This is not over until the final decree is signed and that is months away at this point. She can always drop her petition up until then.

IMHO WW is acting out of guilt and fear. Guilt over what WW did and fear that you will forever hold this over WW.

Keep up with Plan A whenever you see her.

Through your Lawyer you will want to adopt a tuff stance. Don't just give in on this or you WILL regret it later. Seek custody of YOUR son!

If she gives you the "We'll divorce for now. But work on our relationship after". Don't give in to it. It has been used many times by WW's on this board. Any of the poor BS's that gave into this false promise regretted it later.

Stay Strong!

Rummi:

Seems that OM may have shown up.

Check into that if you can.

And it's a really BIG IF, she filed.

She is testing you. If I threaten the filing, what will Rummi do?

1. Walk away?
2. Attack me back
3. File his own Plan D.
4. Tell her *again*: "That you don't do divorce, you are working on saving this M."

And if she believes that #4 is your plan, and your not wavering, you've got a great shot at recovery.

Sunday night, ask her to move home.

LG

Stay strong Rummi!
-JC

I recieved the paperwork yesterday. Went over it and filled out my part. Haven't signed anything yet. This is rough.

Thanks,
Rummi

How goes it, Rummi?

Any new developments?

How are Grandpa / Grandma / MIL taking the news?

Stay Strong!

I do not get this woman. She calls all week long, just to see how I am doing. She wants me to come over, just to hang out. Then we talk last night and she says we have to sign the papers tomorrow. She really doesn't know what she wants.

Her granddad is pushing for her to get off her [censored] and do something, in other words - divorce or go home. He just had another surgery beginning of this week. Artery in heart is fully blocked. He is tired and just wants to make sure she is going to be alright.

She still says she see no other way. But she loves me, and doesn't want to lose me. I asked her to come back home last night, the first time I've asked that in a long time. She didn't say no, but it wasn't a yes either. We are having dinner tonight, so we'll see where it goes from there.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi:

BINGO! You got it! Take the reins and lead WW in this sitch. Don't let the wayword lead. They are ruled by their emotions which are in constant flux. Be rock steady, consistant and LEAD WW in the direction YOU want to go. Marital Recovery. WW can't lead so you must.



Excellent, Granddad wants no more waffeling, WW knows that means REAL decision time is fast approaching. Scary unknown or back to loving husbands arms? It's a no brainer for me. I hope she makes the right decision. A good plan A on your part makes it much easier to choose you.



Just a personnel note: My father was the 7th HUMAN to ever have this (Heart bypass) surgury. It was done out at Walter Reed Army / Navy hospital (before Bethesda was built). They flew in a Surgeon from South Africa to teach American surgeons how to do this. This was back in the early 70's.

Boy these procedures have come a long way since then. They are now almost routine.



Very understandable. I hope he encourages her to make the right decision.



Tell WW that you also can see only one way: Marital Recovery. You may be civil but you will NOT be friends if WW ends things this way!

Tell her that you can see a MUCH better marriage going forward, one in which the both of you will EXCLUSIVLY meet each others needs, Growing together throghout the M.

Reassure her that after you have BOTH worked through the issues that lead to the A and the A itself, you will not brow beat her with the A. Her A is NOT a weapon that you can pull out in order to win an arguement! She needs to feel that it really is "safe" to go back to you.




Excellent! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />




A VERY good sign. She likely already wants to... but doesn't feel safe enough yet.



Be careful when dealing with YOUR expectations. It can lead to frustration and LB'ing on your part. Just a warning... watch yourself for this.



Remember... Your in plan A. Don't discuss divorce with WW. Discuss marital recovery is she wants to but do not discuss DV with WW. That's what your attourney is for.


Stay Strong!

Last friday... have lunch together... then go and sign our divorce forms together... yay, what a wonderfull family friday. We were both in complete tears. OMFG does this suck.

It is what she wants. There is no changing her mind, no showing her anything. No going back.

Now it is tuesday and I have gotten at least 2 calls or messages from her each day. She just wants to talk and be friends. She calls yesterday to tell me she got some new movies that she wants me to see. Not watch together though, oh no, that would mean that we might be close again. So she is going to make copies of them.

She calls again last night. Says she needs to find a real job. She can't stay at her grandparents much longer. BUT, she will not come home. Says we just can't live together. Says that things are different now and she doesn't feel the same anymore.

So, I've signed my part, she has signed her part. And she says she is not going to do anything final until January or February. I don't understand why. All she has to do is make the final decision and say go, and it will all be over.

As far as I'm concered, and I have told her this, we are now divorced. You wanted this and I did what you wanted. There is no more friends, no more hanging out, no more notes, calling, and flirting. Time to look forward, and not worry about her.

Here's to new beginnings.
Rummi

Is your Plan B ready?

hahahah, I knew that you were going to say that. Emotionaly, no, I'm not ready for it. But, there is no other way. It is time.

Thanks,
Rummi

I'm sorry to hear your loss.....

At least your mother in law cares enough about you to tell you. My husband told his mother, who lives in Munich, and she supports him in whatever he does. The really painful part is that she only speaks German, and I only speak English, so its not even like I can email her!

I can sympathize with your situation, its like taking one step forward and two steps back. I miss my husband so much that it is a physical ache, but until me makes a decision about letting go of the OW, there is nothing I can do. I just try to keep the lines of communication open. The sad part is his co-workers already knew of the A, and his friends knew too. Most of his friends have sided with me and told him he is an idiot. My friends and family have done the same, and it was really great to know I had so many people who loved me.

I think the key is to envision what you want, and have alot of patience. I don't want to lose my marriage, and it sounds like you don't want to either. But if both people are not willing to work on it, taking a step back saves your heart alot of pain, and makes the other person wonder why you are taking a step back. Food for thought...

CJ-
Yea, alot of people already knew about it. And there is not one person that says she is making the right decisions. But, when they are in the fog, it is hard for them to see beyond themselves.

Your husband does need to let go of the OW. Until my wife stopped contact with OM there was no reasoning with her at all. As soon as it ended there was a really big change. Went through the withdrawal, now in depression.

I have had a lot of patience. And neither one of us wants to lose our marriage. But I am the only one willing to work on it. She has just given up. So it is time to take the step back. I always thought it took a very strong person to hold on, but I finally realize it takes an even stronger person to let go.

On a lighter note.... After I told her that I can't be just friends, that she means so much more than that to me. She has been initiating contact all week long. She has been warming up to me first. She called me early yesterday morning to see if I can watch our son while she looks for a real job.

Last night, Her, our son and I all go to the fair. Have a great night. In the end, we kiss, say we love each other and I go home. Then we start talking on the computer. I asked her to the movies and it looks good.

But again... we have signed the divorce. What is she holding out for, what is she waiting for. She tells me that she does love me and doesn't want to lose me. So all I can ask her is why. That is where I am at now. Tettering on the brink of plan B. I am still hopefull though.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rummi,

I'm in a very similar boat. My problem is that I haven't done as good a job at plan A as you have. She's moving out this weekend, she wants to remain friends, but she's like a dead fish when it comes to emotions though.

I have to refresh on what Plan B is. I've just been faultering around the past few months, and have started a new job, so a lot of energy has been put into that.

My faultering was me realizing I had no control over what was happening, that I could in no way influence the situation. I've changed somewhat, but have seen myself falling back into my old ways.

We were never married, but engaged for 6 years. I want so much to be with her, I love her deeply. She seems losts, and with her it wasn't a OM, it was OW (lesbian). She may not want to come back. I don't see it happening at least.

I wish you well in your endeavor. It sounds like things are turning around for you!!!

Another weekend gone by. Not much happening. Neither one of us called or wrote each other, so we just did our own things.

She called a couple time yesterday though, and we talked late last night. I straight up asked her, why? Why, and why and more why? She couldn't really give an answer. Bunch of I don't knows and this was the only way that she saw things. (everything she said was in the past tense, so she doesn't see it that way anymore)

I asked her why is she waiting until January to finalize anything. She said that she is not sure. That she wants to be 100% sure that this is what she wants to do. She really doesn't want this to happen. She said it, she knows it, but she feels she can't back out now.

I need to make her feel safe with me again. Give her a 100% reason to come back. I do believe that I have been doing things well. I have LB'd a few times, and that is what I am working on with myself. If I can keep everything together and show her what she is going to lose, then I have high hopes.

But not too high of hopes. Because at any moment, at the top of the hill, the rollercoaster can come straight down. Just an update. Talk again later.

Thanks,
Rummi

Good Day. Yesterday was wonderful. Had a halloween party at my son's school. Then took him to a haunted house last night. He was terrified, it was so funny, but he enjoyed himself.

My wife and I were all over each other, emotionaly and physicaly. We had a great time together and are going to the movies (just us, finally) this weekend. Things really are working. I have not been this hopeful in a long time.

Couple questions on plan "B". Is it necessary? Can there be recovery without it? I can see how it can improve the situation even more. But emotionaly it is the hardest thing to do. Also, about holidays coming up.... we are still planning to do things together. How do you plan "B" around holidays.... like last night, when we were all together.

Everything is looking good, but that can change at anytime.
Rummi

Rummi,

A real off the wall question...

Have you ever asked her WHY she is so afraid to recommit to you?

Just a thought... For her.

I hope you are doing well.

How are you going to handle the upcoming holidays?

WTF - Yes, I have asked her what she is afraid of. She is afraid of coming back to the way things were. She is afraid of losing herself and her ability to be her own person.

It's been a busy couple of weeks. Had my birthday last week and our sons is coming up next week. We haven't been spending a whole lot of time together. She has been more withdrawn lately. Still talking a lot on the phone and messages though.

She made dinner for me yesterday and things went well. She is still very defensive. Says that she doesn't want to lead me on by giving more than she is willing. I gave her a rose yesterday and it made her feel uncomfortable. She says the feeling is not the same anymore.

For the holidays, I'm going to do what we always have. Having early dinner with her and her family for thanksgiving. Then late dinner with my family, though she will not come to my families dinner. Most likely the same for christmas.

I am still rebuilding her love and trust for me. I can only fulfill the needs that she will let me. I am continuing to be the best that I can, wether it is returned or not.

Thanks,
Rummi

I feel your pain! I have heard my WH saying the same things, and that he can't bear to look at me for the rest of his life and know how much he hurt me. I don't know that I can offer any advice, but just know you are not alone!!!

Hey Rummi...


How are you doing?

Still thinking about you Rummi...

Let us know how you're doing when you get a chance.

Hello again. I haven't been around much. Work has been keeping me very tied up.

Lets see, where are we at now. We are not anywhere. It is the same situation that it has been. We see each other on friday and sunday for the exchange of our son. Went to dinner and lunch a couple of times throughout the month. Don't call or write each other as much anymore. We were up late last night together.

It is over. She is not coming back. I've been down and depressed the past couple of weeks. There really is nothing I can do to prove to her how I feel. She has given up on our future together. She still loves me with all her heart - her words. But she just doesn't want to be with me anymore.

She says maybe in the future, but not now.

I'll still be around, just been very busy.
Thanks,
Rummi
If you truly love someone, then you have to know when to let them go.

Everything is going to be alright, for better or worse.

We have both been back and forth in different moods the past week. Either affectionate or just a wall of nonemotion. Holidays are a trying time.

We were at lunch yesterday and I asked her about New Years. Last year we had seperate New Years (my biggest mistake). I told her I wanted to spend it with her. I want to make up for last year and start the new year right, how we were supposed to before. I told her to just think about it and let me know. I said that if she said no, then I will walk away and let her be. I see this as my last chance and hope of making it together.

So we went for breakfast and christmas shopping for our son today. Everything was good. We were together having a good time. I plan "A"'d perfect. Both left in good moods. I haven't LB'D in a long time.

The past weeks my counselor has said I need to be ready to plan "B". I need to do it swiftly and soon. I am waiting on her answer for New Years. He says that I have been in "A" for too long (9 months now) and need to move on to myself.

I have been reading more on the divorced/divorcing threads. I see my situation turning in that direction. This is very difficult, but everthing is going to be alright.

Thanks,
Rummi

I think that her New Years Answer is very good timing to start you plan B around.

If she says No. Hand her the letter right there.

If she says Yes. Give her a stellar date, Plan A Overdrive and hand her the letter at the end (unless during the cource of the evening she decides to come home).

WW seems to comfortable with this "new" arrangement. Time to rock the boat.

You DO have your plan ready to implement don't you?

Stay Strong!

WTF-
Exactly what I was thinking too.

I do have every ready. Finances set, custody schedule/transfers set, letter set. Now I just need to get my emotions set. It's hard for me to go 2 days without talking to her. This is going to be harder than Plan A ever was.

That is what friends, family and staying active are for. Keep busy and moving forward with my son.

Thanks,
Rummi

We had lunch today. She is an emotional wreck. Broke down in tears. She gets this way about once a month. It wasn't tears for us, but tears for herself.

She feels bad and sorry for everything. She is tired of living at her grandparents, tired of working, and frustrated that she can't do everything on her own.

I did everything right, comforted her, held her, and kept her calm. We left good, but we always leave like that. We haven't argued, gotten into a fight, or not gotten along in a very long time.

We do get along great while we are together. It's just that emotional closeness that is missing. I can only do what she will let me, and I watch my frustrations when I can't do or receive more.

I told her that I wanted our son on christmas eve, I am really not looking forward to waking up alone that morning. She said that I might be able to stay with her at her grandparents. We always have eve and day over there and I would be there for both anyway, so I just may stay the night there.

Thanks,
Rummi

Good Day.....

She calls me at work yesterday to say hi, and see how I'm doing. We talked for a little bit about not much at all. I told her that I would call her later that night and she said "I know, you always do". I told her fine I won't then. She said I still would anyway.

So I didn't call her. Went out with friends. 11:00, as I was about to go to sleep, she calls me. She was watching something on tv that we always watched together and was thinking of me. She had a bad day, and a headache and said she wished I was there to make her feel better. I told her I would come over, but she said no, it's late and a long drive.

I know I'm not supposed to read into anything she says or does, but ggggrrrrr, that was very frustrating. She loves me, misses me, thinks of me, but still doesn't want to be with me more than she does want to be with me.

I asked her if she had thought about new years, still not sure yet. I am staying with her at her grandparents on christmas eve though. Another great chance for Plan A. I am suprizingly looking forward to Plan B. I would not have answered the phone last night, and would not have conflicted feelings today. I see it as a relief, somewhat.

Thanks,
Rummi

So....

Do we have an answer yet Rummi???

Well.....

Do you have a date with your WW tonight?

Plan B in full effect.....

Events of the past weeks leading up to today......

We haven't been very close and she doesn't show any kind of any emotion. I stayed the night with her at her grandparents on Christmas. Things went very well from my side, but she doesn't want to show anything to lead me on. So on Christmas day when I leave she is very cold toward me the whole day.

I pick up my son the day after Christmas and we spend the rest of the week together, until Sunday. That is the longest that I have been with him since all this has started. He is the greatest thing in my life.

Wife called everyday that I had him, this is also the longest time she has been away from him. By Sunday when I bring him back, she is very depressed. hhhhmmmm 5 days alone, I have had to go through that every single week for 9 months.

So she still won't give me an answer about New Years. Next day, New Years eve, I ask her for the last time. She says "I can't make it what you are asking it to be." I had told her that I wanted this to be our new year, a new start on all our mistakes, a chance to try to be together again. She doesn't want to commit to our family anymore.


She said I could call her at midnight if I wanted. I say good bye, I love you, and give her the letter. I haven't spoken to her since.

I just got home and there is a message from her. I haven't listened to it, just deleted. This is hard, but the past months seem to have been harder. I feel a sense of relief. I am living for my son and me now.

Thanks,
Rummi

Rum,
I feel for you man. I know that when I was in your shoes, I told myself to try everything possable so that if it does end in divorce, at least I could sleep at night knowing that I tried everything.

I have only one question,
What if her message was "I want to come home"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

You might want to let her know that you inadvertently deleted her message and ask if it was important???

Just a thought.
SH

SH -

I have wondered if I should have listened to it. And I will probably listen to any others that she leaves.

All this year I have done and tried everything I possibly could. I have started this new year knowing that I have really tried, I gave it my all. I am a new and better person because of all of this. I just wish I still had the other half of me to share it with.

I am at work now and I know that I will get a call sometime today from her, either here or at the house tonight. I'm going to let it go to message. Plan B is no contact.

Thanks for reading and for your thoughts.
Rummi

Rummi,

You did the right thing deleting that message and others that she WILL leave. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Waywards HATE plan B. They will continue to prolong the "status quo" as long as possible (ie. keeping YOU at her beck and call). They will continiously test / probe it.

You DID spell out the proper was to contact you via your plan B letter didn't you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If she does call you at work and does manage to get through, you have only one question for her: HAVE YOU MET THE CONDITIONS OF MY LETTER?

It requires a Yes / No answer. If yes, you can discuss. If no, you hang up.

You have told the receipionist that you will not accept calls from WS haven't you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Stay Strong!

Unfortunatly there is a child involved and no contact is not possable. I honestly believe he should at least listen to the begining of the message if not all in order to cover his back in case somthing happens, good or bad.
It dosn't mean he needs to respond to her cries.
SH
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

She just called. I let the machine get it, then I did listen to it. She is just calling to see how I've been. Said she has been trying to reach me for the past couple of days. I don't think she really took the letter serious. She still believes that I am "at her beck and call".

As for the proper way to contact me..... everything goes through her grandma. When I pick up and drop off our son, it will be done through her grandma. The only time we will need to have contact is if there is an emergency, which her grandma will tell me, and when we go to court to finalize the divorce.

I have told the receptionist to send it to my mail. Which is where it just went now.

Thanks,
Rummi

Day 4 of NC with WS. It's not as hard as I thought it would be, but I really do want to call and talk with her.

This will be the first pick up of my son. I know that she is not going to honor my request and will be there. It is just the way she is. I'm going to call her grandma and see if she will meet me somewhere with him alone.

If she is around, how do I handle it? I don't want to be an [censored] and ignore her, but I also don't want to give her anymore emotion from me either.

Thanks,
Rummi

Hey Rummi,

Remember my plan B post to you back in early July last year?

I'll copy the current relative bit for you.



Remember, she is ALREADY testing your plan B to see how serious you are about this. She will continiously try to break your plan b so she can get her "good family" fix. Do everything you can to not let this happen.

She is still holding onto the fantasy that "no harm will come to her child" and that "BH & WW can be good friends" after this is over. This fantasy must be and will be destroyed by a good DARK plan b.

This is your last best chance to turn this around. Let her see what life will really be like without her "BH as a friend" and her family fractured.

Resist the impulse to call / speak with her. If you call her after you have given her the plan b letter she will believe that the letter was just "another" attempt to manipulate her and you chances to recover will be greatly diminished. And also any other attempts to reestablish plan b will have a greatly diminished impact.

I really would be best if Grandma will bring DS to you and have WW stay in the home. NO direct contact is preferable.

Remember your mantra for ANY direct communictions: HAVE YOU MET THE CONDITIONS OF MY LETTER?

Do not deviate from this or you will break your own plan B.

Stay Strong!

I didn't get my son until Saturday... I had to work. I go to her grandma to get him and she is there, like I knew she would be. She says she wants to talk. I ask if it is about fixing our marriage, coming back and working with me.

She just wants to know what is wrong. She had an attitude because I wasn't giving her her way anymore. I tell her I have nothing to talk about unless it is about recovering our family. I get my son and leave without another word.

Sunday I bring him back and she is there. She is down and depressed, trying to joke and be nice. I drop him off and leave without a word.

It is sad and it hurts, but it feels good to be fully in control of myself again. Not worrying about talking to her or waiting for a call. In the beginning, when I wouldn't leave her alone about everything, she said she needs time to miss me. Well, here it is.

Thanks,
Rummi

You did good Rummi!

A big part of plan B is to protect you from WS manipulations. You will become stronger the longer you are in it.

Remember your new mantra!

Stay Strong!

AAAAHHHH life is good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Had a wonderful day with my son yesterday. WW was there when I brought him back. She tried to be friendly and just talk, I didn't say much and left. I do feel bad though. It feels like I am ignoring and hurting her. I hate treating her this way. I wish she would respect Plan B and not be there.

Anyway, I am going back to school. Actually looking forward to it. I meet tonight and figure out my options with an advisor. I have a good outlook and am very optimistic for the future. I haven't been this focused on a purpose in a long time.

That was one of my problems in our marriage, motivation. I just settled with what we had and didn't show an interest in planning and growing with our future. I am sorry that it took this to really kick my [censored] into doing something <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope you all have a good weekend.
Thanks,
Rummi

Hey Rummi!

Your not plan B'ing us are you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How are you doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, of course not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am on here most everyday, reading and lurking. It still amazes me how similar and exact each of our situations are. WS's all act and say the same things, for the most part.

How am I doing? Hmmmm..... It sucks and is lonely being alone. When you care about someone so much and you want to do everything you can to fix the problems in your marriage, but the WS doesn't want any of it, is really hard. It is hard to let go and move on, but it will make us stronger.

No contact and a full Plan B has not been fully possible. Just like stillhurts says, haveing our son makes no contact harder. He has been sick the past couple of weeks and we took him to the doctor together, like we always do. So, we have seen each other and been around each other as a necessity.

I try not to show too much toward my WW, haven't given any of myself, and haven't called. We don't talk how we used to, friendly and still happy with each other. I say what I need to say regarding our son and that's pretty much it. She has gotten angry and emotional, saying I can't ignore her forever.

I try to stay busy and do things that I haven't done in a while. Especialy when I am thinking of her. Just go out and do things to get my mind on something else. Her birthday is in 2 days. There was a family party at her grandparents yesterday, it was also her granddads birthday yesterday - 72yrs. old. I did go and had a good time with the family. Her brother is back from Iraq and it was very good seeing him too.

I got her a card. Wrote her a little poem in it saying how I still feel, and that I still believe in us. Overall, it wasn't too bad. We didn't talk about a whole lot, I was there for the rest of the family.

A week after the Plan B letter she said she wanted to talk about us, she was in tears and emotional. I agreed to talk to her and she turns it into the divorce thing. I stop it and say if it is not about recovery then I have nothing to say. So, that is where we're at.

She is still there when I pick up and drop off our son. But we don't say anything that's not about him. I can tell that she has been depressed lately, but it is her own self induced situation that has put her there.

Each day I see more and more new people coming here. It is very sad and heartbreaking that people will treat someone that they vowed to love and cherish all there lives like this.

Things can and do get better.
Rummi

Nothing new going on here. Haven't talked or seen her in a week or so. I'm living life again and enjoying it.

I wish I had her to share my future with. I know that if she saw the changes I've made in myself, and she gave our marriage another chance, then things would work out.

She still has not done anything with the final filing of the divorce. I really don't know what she is waiting for anymore. The last time I asked her why she hasn't finished it, she said she didn't want to completely lose me, and she wanted to be 100% sure that this is what she wanted to do.

Oh well. Enjoying the world and experience for me now. Everything does go by too quick, enjoy it while it's here.

Thanks,
Rummi

Same same here. Still in a strange Plan B. With valentines day coming up, things are just very down for me. Valentines day was when we first got together. I do miss her so very much.

Picked up and dropped off my son on friday and sunday. We didn't say anything and that was it. She really doesn't care anymore. I still don't understand the how and why of everything.

It hurts that she doesn't want to have anything at all to do with me. We loved each other and married each other out of that love. I don't understand. Everything that we worked for, all of our dreams and hopes are for nothing. I got left behind without so much as a second thought.

Everyone says I need to get over it and move on. Find someone else and be happy. I didn't marry her just untill things got bad. I vowed to spend the rest of my life with her, for our family, to be and do everything I could for us. To me, that means so much. It wasn't just empty words and promises.

I know that I can't change her mind, she has to want to. I know that there is nothing I can do about it at all, again, she has to want to be with me and try or else it's useless. But I can't give up. I love and care too much.

So how long does it take, while in Plan B, before you give up and don't care anymore?

Thanks,
Rummi

One year later......

Today is the day that my soon to be ex-wife left. It has been a very hard, long and emotional year. We are still not officially divorced, but it will be coming soon. She finally got an attorney last month and is going through with it all.

I know that I have done my best this past year. Both in Plan A and Plan B, well, could of done a better Plan B. It's hard to leave someone you love alone.

I feel that I have improved myself as a person and now understand a lot of what went wrong with us and our relationship. I look to the future with the knowledge that I have gained from all of this and feel hopefull.

I still thank everyone on these boards and Dr. Harley. Finding this site has really made a lot of this easier.

We both still love each other and she says that she does still see a future with me, just not now. Being together now, just makes us remember the past, and how bad our relationship really did get. Only time will help.

Love, live and learn.
Rummi

It doesn't sound like you did Plan B correctly. I think you should have left a lot sooner and been a lot stronger. But if you are happy dangling, well more power to you.

Rummi!

Glad to see you are still around.

What's the plan going forward?

Hang in there!

The plan forward.....

Sold the house and got an apartment for my son and myself. Just moved in a week ago. Excited about the new change, but it is very different.

Since I have moved back into town, I am closer to my son and will be getting him every afternoon after he gets out of school and we will be sharing every other weekend. That is the greatest thing I am looking forward to, being with him more.

Mostly I just want to make sure that he is safe, secure and always has his parents for him.

For myself, I am living. Having fun with friends and family and doing whatever I want to keep my head up.

My XW.... We have a lot of bitterness between us that we have to get over. There are no words or actions that can fix us right now.

Talk again later.
Rummi

Well, it is over. We signed the divorce last Wednesday. My first thoughts and reactions were that this is one less thing we have to fight about now. So, the only thing we should have to talk about or see each other about is our son.

I just found out last week that she is still with the OM. She has been keeping it hidden this whole time. I never really did have a chance, no matter how hard I tried. I am bitter and angry about everything. It seems that our marriage, our past and everything we had was for nothing.

Thanks again,
Rummi

"I have loved once, and no good has come of it. It was contrary to my nature to do so - to love in that mad passionate, self-sacrificing manner. But yet I did. I think I may say with certainty that I never shall be so foolish again. "