Sounds good, Sis. I figured his mom and dad would let him continue to live like a kid, even in the presence of his own kids.

You have done a very good job of taking care of your boys, and I think full physical custody by you is best for them.

You know what, as we say to Bugs and Eph, who cares what your WAYWARD is thinking, because you're not supposed to be thinking of him anyway, in his nonexistence... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LilSis:

Never wrestle with a pig...you'll both get dirty but only the pig will enjoy it.

Keep to the high road. You won't regret it.

No...I'm sticking with custody. I won't skimp on that to prove any kind of point.

__________________________________

Smart girl!
don't even think about playing his game. continue to do the right thing.....what's right for your boys and for you.


i am sorry to say this but maybe your WH's lame claim allows you to see him in the light you need to cut him loose and get on w/ your life.

God works in mysterious ways.
i am not a very religious person and i can't quote scripture for you......but, i do believe that.
stay strong!

Sis,

I'm glad to hear you're doing well.


and BTW,

I feel like wrestling with a pig today and they are telling me nobody's got a clean one right now?

Man, I hate when that happens.

So I have to wrestle a dirty, un-fresh pig? I guess this is one of those times when I have to adjust my fantasy to meet reality.

Sheeesh.

SB

Lilsis... I am sorry that this is all hitting the fan right now. I think you have the right attitude. I would keep things calm as possible and let your lawyer tear them a new one.
While your H's actions must be hurtful, it certainly shows you what he has become and may help you let go of a man that is really not worth holding on to.

MEDC

I am amazed at how okay I feel. There might be some real truth to the statement that this finally reveals WH for how wayward he really is; how addicted he is, etc.

He has sunk so low. Like I wrote at the beach: The only one who can save WH is God.

This problem is WAAAAAY out of my league. I have felt the over the last 24 hours that I may no longer be interested in the outcome. He has made so many LB withdrawals that it will only become increasingly difficult to imagine that he could ever break even again.

Anyway, I attribute my attitude to the fact that my sister is here. She is my oldest sister and has always been the motherly one, very stable, very sensible, not prone to drama. EXACTLY what I needed this week.

I am wiped out. Need to go to sleep.

Once again, I was posting last night with my eyes rolling back into my head. I had to come back this AM and see what I wrote.

Couple of things. I do feel strong. I feel like I survived...AGAIN. That gives me strength. Every time I survive one of these ugly things (and there have been plenty when you factor in the whole criminal mess), it is a WIN for me psychologically. Maybe not emotionally, but I survive and keep plugging away.

I have my down times, my meltdowns, my really, really bad days or even weeks, but I'm still in the game (of life, anyway).

Maybe my sister, IC, and friends at work are on to something. Maybe I am stronger than I think. Way stronger. I don't see it or feel it....but intellectually, look what I've been through....and I'm still holding it together, working, parenting, gardening, playing poker, laughing, cleaning house (this last one is questionable).

Maybe there's something to all that. Maybe I need to get over the fear of my inner child taking over...that fear that I will fall apart completely and all that will be left is this puddle. That hasn't happened yet, even while throwing up in a jail cell toilet at 91 pounds.

I am a puddle occassionally, but it's at home, or when I'm with friends or family, or in the car, or in IC. Eventually, the competent adult steps back in and compells me to pull it together. I go to work, I feed the kids (even if it's Taco Bell), I do what I need to do.

Maybe I ought to feed the "wolf" of the adult, and stop feeding the wolf of the puddle. The puddle doesn't necessarily have to completely evaporate in order for me to be whole or secure. I don't have to be the competent adult all the time. I can become a puddle when I need to be without fearing that I won't be able to re-form into something solid again. I've done so every time.

I do think that the last couple of days were what I needed to "let go." The kind things I said about H yesterday....I just wanted to put that out there for all of you so that you knew that H was a really good guy, and that there were good reasons for hoping some semblance of him would return. I thought you all might be wondering why the heck I even care anymore, given how wretched he is today.

I completely recognize now that H is gone today. I am so above what he is doing now. I will not stoop to his level. I did not deserve this. The facts speak for themselves. Even yesterday, when I was really hoping that the mediator would slap him for the whole amount and it didn't happen...even that was manageable, because hearing his A practically accuse me of trying to cheat WH out of money...for God's sake.

The last couple of days have been real eye-openers. 2x4s.

It was embarrasing and humiliating to have to stand there in front of a courtroom of people while my life is being trotted out. I would think that it would be even more embarrassing and humilating for WH. But he's doing it. He's putting us all through this ugliness, and making no attempt to make it LESS ugly that it already is...the opposite is true.

(My sister said that from her perspective in the gallery that WH came out looking like an a$$. His arguments really sounded weak and desperate, and his attorney sounded whiny and complaining, while my attorney was looking purely at the facts of the matter, even graciously agreeing to some some points (the ones we had agreed to give on). The only reason she believes that the mediator found in WH's favor is because they started throwing all sorts of other bills into the mix, muddy-ing the waters, attempting to go beyond the scope of what he was there to rule on.)

And after we got home, my sister and I went for a walk, and guess who was at the coffee shop?

I am going to become teflon. He can sling mud and I will not let it stick. I know that I am not the one who has anything (really) to be ashamed of. I suspect that WH has some anger and shame that he won't take responsibility for and so he's trying to put it off on me. I will stand tall and try not to let it stick.

I will enjoy my sister's company, I will work hard at my job, I will have fun with my friends, I will take pride and joy in my boys (who are leaving tomorrow for the cottage). This is my life to live, and I will own it. Even the bad stuff. I will look at these mountains ahead of me with determination. Hopefully not grim determination.

One concern....is my relief, my present state of general well-being, simply a result of having been able to DO something? Even if it was ugly divorce/court stuff????

This worries me.

Sis,

It's amazing what a little bit of rest can do, isn't it?

You said



YES you ARE MUCH stronger! I am SO, SO, SO, glad YOU are finally seeing this for yourself!! You are recognizing the amazing things you have done in this, most horrible of circumstances.

I understand feeling "embarassed" about having your life on display, but remember YOU didn't do this!! YOU do not need to be ashamed. I LOVE how you had your sis there to give you the "outsiders" perspective on how it looked in the courtroom.

Goddess Angel Sis, standing tall and classy, including her A. POSWH, whiney, self serving, jerk!!

Do not think to much about feeling 'better' or focus on having gotten "to do" something. I think these few days were different in that these were things you didn't initiate doing. AND, you are at a MUCH different place than before. You are moving forward for YOU and your KIDS, not in search of trying to control or manipulate the WH. You are merely going through the process that HE initiated and doing what is best for YOU!

Kuddos my dear!!! Enjoy your time with your sister. It is a special bond and you enjoy a bit of girl time!!

Sis,

I see strength in you. Someday you will see strength in you.

And your WH sees it in you. That's why he stood in the hall the way he did at court, he was trying to stand up to you symbolically - because he sees the strength and wanted to try to break it. He didn't do that. You stayed strong, because you ARE strong.


I wonder about doing things now that would enhance your case. Have you pursued any information on RT? I still think about the reason for the neighbors moving so quickly - and her being in the pool naked with that man. The fact that RT's husband divorced her so quickly on news of this affair with your WH, makes me wonder if this isn't her first affair, but probably second? If your WH were to discover that she has had other affairs, and lied to him about this, what would the fallout be of that? Do you think it might be time to try to contact those neighbors and find out if there was something to that event? Just wondering here. I know you have thought about it before and haven't done it, but there might be some value in it now, given WH's nastiness and stubborness.

Also, is it possible to look at her divorce information to find out if there's anything about serial affairs?

I don't know how all that works. It might help your case.

SB

Maybe we don't see that we are "strong" because it's just who we are. We think that strength means never becoming a puddle ( boy, I understand that visual) but it isn't really that.

People at church and at DivorceCare would tell me that I was such an inspiration because of my strength and faith and I'd think "are you high?" because I didn't FEEL strong. I felt like I had no other option but to keep going and keep turning to God to survive.

Maybe they see part of us that's in our blind spot-so to speak.

Consider it a compliment. Enjoy your sister's company. Keep being you.

You are in my thoughts and prayers-

I posted late last night and lost it (technologically speaking).

Long story short: I don't want to go after RT for a couple of reasons. Legally, I don't want to put myself in any jeopardy since I'm not supposed to be around her. She could claim I'm stalking her or something.

Emotionally, it wouldn't do me any good to even keep her on my radar.

In terms of the D, the judge has already indicated that fault will be considered (as much as it can be in this no-fault state). No dirt is going to change the fact that his long-term infidelity was the reason.

WH tried a mini-Plan B break yesterday. I suppose since he had a "win" the other day then any rules I might set don't apply? He left a VM in the afternoon asking me to call so he could let me know what the kids need packed for the trip to the cottage (they leave this morning).

Obviously, he could have just left the info on the VM. He could have asked DS11 to call. He could have had his mom call. He could have called my sister (maybe he did; she was at a wedding last night). He could have called LK, my official intermediary. He could have sent an email.

I had DS11 call back. All he wanted was to pack extra socks, a pair of jeans, and a sweatshirt. DUH. It's funny...he's probably giving himself a big pat on the back for stating the obvious. Maybe he's trying to be the conscientious father.

I had been asking God for direction, remember? I think maybe he answered that. The direction he is showing me is AWAY from WH who is speeding toward bottom; that I can feel good about me and how I have survived all of this.

The last four days, my sister and I have gone for a walk. The way to the park goes very near the coffee shop (no way around this). Every one of those four days, WH was there. And we went at different times each day. Yesterday, he pulled up when we were about a block away. Four days in a row: this can't be coincidence.

Between that and the antics in court, I think God's saying that WH is long, long gone right now and heading toward bottom. I think God is showing me what I'm in store for, AND that I can do this. Get out of the way; WH's crash ain't gonna be pretty.

I've even had this worry that WH might try to bring RT's son along on the trip to the cottage. But you know what? My attitude is, "I sure hope not, but I can't do anything about it. He's gonna do what he's gonna do." I've reached the conclusion that if WH is this gross and ugly, I can't protect the kids from it. I can't protect them from their father. The fact that he has and is hurting them...I cannot control. All I can do is give them all that I have when I have them, and fight him having them any more than he does--in court.

My trial date is Oct. 8, with one more settlement conference on Sept. 27.

I wonder, too, SB, if he was just trying to rattle me in the hallway the other day, which goes to this:

My sister and I came up with a theory: WH is being horrible and vindictive right now because *I* screwed everything up for him. He had this little fantasy that once this all came out in the open, that I'd dump him, we'd have an amicable divorce, that the kids would be delighted to be with Mrs. RT and her kids, that his parents would be happy that he'd found happiness, and that his friends and co-workers would all understand.

In his mind (according to our theory) the fact that this has not occurred is MY fault. That is to say, he can direct all his frustraton and anger onto me because I am the convenient target. If I would have just gone along with everything from the beginning, none of the other stuff would have happened.

I like having this theory, because it gives me a way to understand WHY I seem to have a bullseye on my back when it comes to WH, when in fact I have not done anything...barely spoken to him in five months.

Anyway, having this theory also allows me to see that it's not about ME, it's about him.

Still doing well today. The boys are leaving, but I need to spend some extra time at work, and I have made plans with friends. They'll be back next Saturday, so the time will go by quickly, I hope.

JT: Are you HIGH??? is about how I feel when people tell me I'm strong, too. In your case, I can absolutely see it. Maybe it's just not something we can percieve in ourselves, because we also know how torn up and "puddle-y" we are on the inside.

Sis,

Continue to ignore WH as you have. Continue your focus on you best as you can.

YOU ARE SO STRONG! Keep repeating that to yourself until YOU believe it, too! Atleast when you need to really draw on it.

Your WS is being just as ugly as Drac, and you are right in that it gets to the point where you can not totally protect your kids from that ugliness, but must battle it the best you can. DD was talking about Drac and the Ho kissing on the lips the other night! Yet, at the same time, she says how she knows it is WRONG because Mommy and Daddy are still married. As long as she understands that it is wrong, then that is the best I can hope for at this point.



YEP - this is also Drac to a "T". Yet WE know that even if we HAD gone along with their "plan", they are going to end up in the same place as these R will end. They are a fantasy that can not last.

The good thing is that we have fought the good fight. WE can hold our heads high that we have done all we can to preserve our family and protect our children.

WE have made changes. We have Grown! Look how far we have come from where we were. And we will continue to go these things for the rest of our lives. We have taken the most horrific of circumstances, and with the help of God, Friends, Family, and MB, done incredibly Good things.

You stand tall, Angel!

Well . . . uh . . . yeah . . . exactly

(I shall refrain from saying "duh")

They all do this, Sis. (Been reading at MB long? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

They all think it will work out exactly as you described and are FURIOUS and behave horribly when of course it doesn't come close to working out that way.

They all read from the same script. They really do.

Busting up his deluded fantasy was the best thing you could have done, for a lot of reasons - not least of all for yourself.

Hang in there.
Mulan

rofl -- I agree with Mulan -- DUH!

Really? This was a new theory for you?

I think we've been telling you -- you met needs of his. Even when he put you into the "friendship" category and got the affection/sexual/etc needs met from RT. You still met needs. And he wanted that to continue, just in a different fashion.

He thought he could manipulate you into being a friendly co-parent. He thought he could present this to the world that everybody (lilsis and boys) were happier, better, great, wonderful.

YOU ruined that fantasy.

I agree with your theory.

And WH can't believe your strength. That part is rattling HIM. Sure, he is trying his best to rattle you - by standing in the hall, he was trying to get to you. In the end, though, you have the right understanding of WH because your theory is right - and because you have done THE WORK, and so he can't rattle you......so as Dr. Phil would say, "It isn't working for him".

WH isn't doing the work - he proceeds through his life right now, trying to live his fantasy. His travels will not take him beyond where he is right now emotionally, because he hasn't done one bit of work. Until that changes, nothing changes, for him.

It is different for you, because you recognized what you needed to change, and you took action. From that action, you have gained strength - of character, of knowledge, of morals, of so much more. You know this, take a look at your first post here - and measure for yourself.


For now, know that your Plan B is for YOU. To rebuild YOUR strength, and it has worked. We see it, and others in your life are seeing it too. WH sees it, make no mistake - besides the money, he had to ratchet up his fight. Because he now realizes that he is up against a formidable adversary - someone with true inner strength, and the position of the moral high ground.

SB

Sis I have posted for awhile but your situation parallels mine in several ways, the actions and the ignorance of a waywards thought is undescribable.

I wanted to let you know that how crazy you think he is he is probably worse.

I will also tell you in my case I have first hand knowledge.
My WW soon to be Ex and her man talk regularly on the phone when she is with our kids, I have recording of everyone of these call's and MAN let me tell you the universe is completely different than what reality is.

So go be strong and just stop worrying, our kids will be fine, my kids are terrorizing the OM now and so he is seeing what it feels like to have kids, don't think he likes it much

Be strong my sis

since you are committing a FELONY that would get you jail time, I stronly suggest you cease and desist recording their calls. You have zero reason to be doing this at this point...and even concerning the well being of children, your illegal recordings would not be allowed in court and would be used against you in a custody battle.

I've been reflecting on this whole DUH thing. (which I totally recognize, BTW, that it is exactly what everyone has been telling me, and the peanut gallery is just an expression.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

It made sense intellectually, but emotionally, I just couldn't wrap my mind around the idea that WH was THAT far gone. Now all I have to do is say to myself "violent and unstable" and there we go. That was just plain malicious and mean. And pathetic, if it was truly just a way to worm out of paying CS.

(I don't think I told you all about how he proposed doing the joint custody thing, either. He proposed telling me on the 10th of each month what HIS work schedule would be for the following month so that those would be the days he had the boys. So essentially the boys and I would be puppets on a string, living our lives around what was convenient for HIM.)

The man who IS now is an absolute, total and complete 180 from the man that I married. Seeing those statements in black and white, entered in a legal document before the court....WOW. That was the 2x4 that I needed to have my eyes finally opened. (you'd think that everything up til then would have been sufficient, but apparently I'm a slow learner!)

So while I was out for a walk last night, this came to me:

I BELIEVED in H for over a year after d-day. I never gave up on the man that I married, never allowed myself to think that he could be so utterly GONE (for now?). I made a promise to that man and I was committed to keeping it. We were still one, and I had a responsibility to him.

Last week, he gave me something else to believe in.

It would be nice to say that now I believe in myself, but I'm not sure that's true, even though it sounds cool.

Maybe it's that I experience this as him threatening the kids in a very specific way, so mamma bear emerges. Maybe it's that his claims are SO off-base, SO self-serving that there's no way to explain them away.

I no longer feel that I have a responsibility towards WH. This is COMPLETELY new.

Anyway....about the whole control thing. NOW--being removed from that responsibility, no longer carrying the weight of it...I see what others have been saying. Pushing buttons, trying to get a reaction, not being honest with myself about that.

I couldn't SEE it before because I was IN it. I think that, for me, I just had to GET there. It couldn't be forced, or pushed, or argued, because I had to get there in my own time, when everything sort of came together in such a way that the light bulb turned on.

Sis, if you had ever read some of my early posts (May '06), you would see how very much alike we (the BS) all are in our own fog. No matter how real our lives are (being left behind, taking care of the kids, the house the lawn, the heavy snow, the dogs, etc and so on) we live in our own fogginess, averting reality.

It takes quite a long time to truly let go, to SEE what is right before us, rather than what we are holding on to, longing to be true.

Sis, your husband did a terrible thing to you and your boys; you are really seeing that now, especially since he cotinues to show that ugliness to you.

You have never been responsible for your H's happiness; he was and still is.

Oh, and "anybody want a PEANUT"!

Now all I have to do is say to myself "violent and unstable" and there we go. That was just plain malicious and mean. And pathetic, if it was truly just a way to worm out of paying CS.

(I don't think I told you all about how he proposed doing the joint custody thing, either. He proposed telling me on the 10th of each month what HIS work schedule would be for the following month so that those would be the days he had the boys. So essentially the boys and I would be puppets on a string, living our lives around what was convenient for HIM.)

____________________

wow.
just...wow, what a selfish A** Hole!

The judge said no way to this proposal? is that right?