Notashoped: Okay, gotcha. It just stung. I believe you are trying to be supportive, but yikes.

I have to work this weekend, so not much fun...

LilSis/Silent:

About selling the house:

I understand about uprooting the kids, Flamingo wouldn't Plan D my sorry butt until DS graded from HS. So that DS life wouldn't be disrupted.

That's a choice. But it is a choice to live a life that is a lot less fulfulling than it could be, because the "boys" wouldn't be happy.

We bought a house 8 miles outside town, in 1997. The house we sold had a back yard that was 10' by 30', if you include the fuel tank and gardens. Not a place for an active 4 year old. New place had an acre, not on the main street (Want to hear the story about the police car on the porch?). DS was 4, and he didn't want to move....But we did. It's a better place for us all around. DS doesn't want to move NOW. But if we need to, he's going with us.

That's my point.

You can let the triggers control your life, and your neighborhood is full of them. You you can choose that the triggers are too great. The last time selling the house was discussed on your thread, I think it was Feb, before Plan B start. Much has progressed since that time. And the triggers seem not to be getting weaker. JMVHO.

The financial aspect of your house deal can be replicated. Maybe you do have to pay WH something. But that's a choice as well.

Maybe when your H returns, or the D is final, many of the triggers will fade away, and moving will not be an issue, I hope for that day for you as well.

And your WH isn't "running" you out of the house. It's your choice to stay, or go. But that choice has costs on your personal well-being as well.

I wasn't trying to get WH off the hook regarding hanging at the donut hole. It was in regards to how much the "boys" may put into it.

My father wasn't around much at all when I was the age of your oldest son. I didn't contemplate that at all. When he was around, he was around, when he wasn't, oh well. That was me. Maybe I shouldn't have projected it onto your sons. Nobody ever told me what was going on with my father. Your boys are much better off in that respect. I was really just trying to alleviate some of your fears for your boys. Guess I missed the mark.

And Sis, your analogy of the kids being dropped off like so much dry-cleaning....Ouch.

I always wanted to avoid that.

((LS))

LG

LG, you've got a point about the house. I did look around, but I wanted to stay in the same county, so it was hard to find anything that made me happy. I would have to give up a lot, and SETTLE for so much less, if I moved out.

Meh, it's always a possibility. Who know's; maybe we'll move again. I'm up for that, however, at the time that I felt I HAD to move, it was gut wrenching, and made me angry to think of what WH was causing me to lose.

I realize now, that it was my choice to stay; PWC couldn't control that. In some aspects, I looked forward to moving, like Bugsy has, Mimi did, to get that clean slate, fresh start, to help alleviate the triggers of being in our R and M home. Also, to take responsibility for myself, my life. To stop wallowing in what is and begin to MAKE what is.

The triggers are still there, but the extent to which they affect me depends greatly on the day, what's going on, how I am doing emotionally, yada yada.

I do expect that they will lessen in time. I will consider it a personal victory when they are gone. Even now, it is a personal victory when I can continue on with my day in spite of a trigger.

Yeah, the kids would get used to a new place, but to put them through another disruption in their lives to assuage MY fear of being triggered (which I hope is only a temporary way of being) seems selfish. I'd rather push through it and give the kids THAT much stability. And at 9 and 11, they are attached. This is home.

Truthfully, I will be triggered no matter where I live, unless I move AWAY, which I am not willing or able to do. I have a great, great job and it is a huge support system for me.

It is What Is...I need to deal with it.

LilSis,

Right there with you today.... today I miss my H. And am going through the what if's and what could of beens,

The difference is I'm not a crying heap on the floor when this happens anymore. Just sad... and still prating for a different outcome But know God's will be done.

Still

Focus on her and the kids - not her soon to be Ex husband. Control what she can - not what she can't. It's rather presumptuous to assume he can't and won't be happy and have a fullfilling life.

SDguy wants to perpetuate the pity party and anger and rightousness ? Fine. IMO that is not the path to recovery.

Bravo! Someone needed to say it.

LS,

You really need to get off the pity party train. It leads nowhere. Stop the "victim" mentality. It prevents you from being the person, Mom, and woman that you need to be for your sons.

So what if she works down the street....so what if the cruiser is parked there....so freakin' what!?
Why do you allow HER to have so much power over you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You have got to stop with all this obsessing. It does no one any good...especially your sons.

You are trying to control everything like you admit to doing in your marriage. It didn't bode well then...it won't bode well now. You don't get to decide for others. You don't get to decide who is on what street....where the policemen eat or don't eat...who talks to your husband or who doesn't. The church lady isn't a bad person ya know. She simply might not have been able to handle your breakdown. That doesn't make her a bad person...it makes her human. For you to denounce her Christianity is a bit self absorbed. She didn't meet your standard, therefore she isn't a good christian...is how that translates.

You are going to lose people that can help you when you take that kind of attitude.


JMHO
committed

Well, if I knew how to just shut off the feelings this will all be much easier and I probably wouldn't be here.

Maybe I am obsessing; I don't really know. Maybe it sounds like it here, because this is one place I feel I can come to share those feelings....feelings that I can't express in many other places IRL.

I thought I was getting away from controlling. Can you explain what it is that you see that I've been trying to control...lately? I haven't interacted with anyone. I'm not trying to decide where WH eats or doesn't eat; I'm acknowledging and stating HERE (a safe place?) that eating at the coffee shop around the corner from my house where his skanky ho works is hurtful....and I wish he had the decency to not do so.

It hurts to see that. I admit that. And I wish he wouldn't (for all intents and purposes) rub my face in that relationship.

Wishing it and attempting to control it are two entirely different things. I have absolutely no control over his choice of where to eat...I don't think I've implied otherwise...have I?

What I've been trying to deal with the last few days IS the vicitm mentality. I'm being triggered right and left but I'm not going to let it devastate me or ruin my day. Like moving: I refuse to do so simply because I can't deal with WH being around the corner. If and when I choose to move, it will be because it is the best thing for the boys and I financially, logistically, emotionally....NOT an emotional fight or flight reaction.

I've said over and over the past few days that the triggers hurt, but that I am determined to push past it and focus on what's in front of me, on today and what I can do to make each day count.

I think I have been looking at myself, examining my motives, finding ways to deal with triggers and take greater control over my OWN life.

I'm not deciding anything for anyone else. I am deciding what MY boundaries are. Whether or not I choose to have a relationship with someone is something that I control. I make those choices based on my experiences with these people, and to what extent they met or did not meet expectations I had of them.

If we are using church lady as an example, I did have an expectation of her post d-day. This wasn't an expectation that I created in a vacuum; it was based on what I knew of her, the friendship we had, and her absolute dedication to people who were struggling at her church, etc. I expected that she would be there for me....obviously I was wrong...for WHATEVER reason, she wasn't there for me.

I am learning not to judge that...as you said, she is human. There could be a million reasons.

Right now, I'm choosing to not even bother finding out what those might be. Why not? I'm too vulnerable, I have another support system, she may not want to have anything to do with me...again, who knows. It's not that important. I had hardly given her a thought until I passed her in the park, and all the feelings came rushing back.

I can't control my feelings...emotions are something that just ARE. It's what we do in response to them--our choices--that matter. We can hold on to them, or we can let them go. I am really, really trying to let them go.

And as far as losing people that could help me....fortunately I have found many others who can help me, who have gone out of their way to help me. So I guess it's a wash. And from now on, I'll be much more aware of my expectations and not allowing myself to be dissappointed. Lesson learned.

Yes, I FEEL betrayed when people have not lived up to my expectations. That's on me. So my expectations won't be the same in the future.

Okay, I re-read last night's post, and a few recently, actually, and I sound defensive.

So there must be something going on (aside from the fact that I have a cold and my head hurts).

Any ideas?

Here's a question: how does being okay with myself and who I am differ from being self-righteous? And is self-righteousness a mindset or a verb?

Is it that when I am REALLY, truly okay with myself that it suddenly won't really matter what anyone else thinks or feels or does? thereby making my need to be RIGHT moot? and my defensiveness drys up? and I have no desire to control?

I want to know if I am on the right path....help?

Because, dang, that seems really self-actualized. If I am on the right path, then it's going to take me a really long time to get there, because I am only taking baby steps.

BR: I'm getting that book. I was able to find a few days online (while looking for Sept 8) and it is really good. It is your voice.

ETA: I changed the name of the thread....my previous titled spoke, I think, of my ASSUMPTIONS about my marriage....and that's not something I can control, because it takes two. I can, however, work on ME.

Dear Sis ~ you can't control others. You can control your behavior.

My Al-Anon sponsor used to tell me, BR, forced solutions never work, even in recovery.

You do not have to force or control your feelings.

What you are struggling with is acceptance of yourself, and your emotions.


Self acceptance and trust in God's will is the answer you are looking for.

You really are enough for Today.

ps. have fun at the bookstore...TODAY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Church lady is being "human," yes, but she is showing a dark side of her human nature. Saying it's "human" almost sounds like it's excusing her behavior as being ok. I'm not even looking at this within the context of her being a Christian...it's in the context of being a "decent" human being. I know it doesn't do any good for LilSis to dwell on this, but I actually said "yes!" when I read that she said she realized Church lady's behavior was nothing to do with LilSis...it was to do with Church Lady's own internal problems. This is the first step towards being able to forgive Church lady for her abandonment, and thus being able to let it go. I don't think that's a victim's mentality.

Church lady also gets to decide whether or not she wants to be involved in all the drama that has come with this.

The constant concentration on what the WH is doing...where the OW works...how many police cars are there...poor me...this has been DONE to me...I didn't choose this...the emotional wailings...the sobbing...the endless need for validation and being considered "right" might just be more than the church lady can handle. She gets to choose.

Does this church lady hold a position in the church that demands she counsel or be on constant availabilty for other members? Is she an elder of the church? Is she the minister's wife? Why assume that she should be there like she might have been for someone else?

What if the kind of help she offered is not the kind of help that LS wanted. I have seen that happen here on the site. What if she didn't have the answers that LS wanted and since she couldn't tell her what she wanted to hear she removed herself. That is exacty what has happened on this thread. Many of the MB veterans have removed themselves from participating in this thread because they gave what they had and couldn't give what was really wanted...which is constant validation...enablement...and an invitation to a pity party.

Also, to call her a hypocrit...well, <correction> a f*cking hypocrit (in front of the children, no less) appears to be non-Christian like in my book.

At least...that's the way that I see it.

committed

IMO, long-term Plan Bs benefit from a fair amount of hand-holding. It takes time to stop wondering and worrying about the infidels, and each person reaches that place in their own time. A dear friend took well over a year to reach a place of true peace, but is a fabulously confident, radiant person now. In the dark, it is also easy to fear you are not steering a true course, and thus the constant search for the best direction.

If a good friend of mine backed away in a time of great upheaval and loss, it would hurt me very much, no matter what her official position was. Yes, it would be her problem, but it would hurt.

Sis has made no claims at being anything but a stumbling, erring mortal, who desires to know Christ better. Of course she should not have said what she did in front of the children, but now she also gets the opportunity to show them grace in action by apologizing to them for it...then life goes on.


The caliber of our Christianhood is not decided by our own worthiness, but by the extent we allow Christ to work in us. Falling into sin, even very badly, is not reason to give up - it is an occasion to ask for forgiveness, and to be washed again.

Justified - having our sins blotted out
Sanctified - set apart for a holy purpose, as in having our thoughts and actions changed from disobedience to obedience

Justification happens in one fell swoop, when we ask Jesus into our hearts. Sanctification is a process, during which the Spirit transforms us into the image of Christ. We make mistakes, but He keeps working.

Sis, be grateful for any flaw of character the Spirit brings to your attention. You can overcome anything with His help. See it as an opportunity, more than a failure.

You'll get there, since He that began a good work in you, will finish it. (Phillipians 1:6)

Then for goodness sakes STOP going by there. You can't control him, but you can control you. Take another route.

IMO, he's not rubbing your face in it. YOU ARE every time you ride by there.

Then for goodness sakes STOP going by there. You can't control him, but you can control you. Take another route.

IMO, he's not rubbing your face in it. YOU ARE every time you ride by there.

I will use this as an example LS.

This is where you want the control. You want to control where he goes instead of controlling where YOU go.

Also, when the co-worker of your H's stopped and talked to you, you had the perfect opportunity to show some grace in the face of it all. Instead you "vented" here about him having the nerve to talk to you while he is still talking to the infidels. You do not want him talking to them. You want to control that too. Had he NOT stopped and talked to you, you would have been upset about that and called him something else.

You are still everywhere emotion-wise.

I am one of those people that feels that we can control feelings. We can control how we feel when we stop and realize that it isn't all about us. Other people are allowed to do what they think is best FOR them and whatever they want as long it causes no blood and no foul.

Stop trying to control who goes where...who talks to who...who eats where...by not allowing it to tick you off. Take care of you and the boys and let everyone else take care of themselves. You will find yourself moving through this more quickly if you do that one little thing.

committed

It is not control that Sis is struggling with here...its expectations of other people.

By changing expectations, emotions WILL calm down.

It is not control that Sis is struggling with here...its expectations of other people.

To me, that equals the same thing.

If I "expect" something of someone, I am in essence wanting control of their actions. They are not responding the way that I want, which leads me to be upset with them, which means that I have no control over them. If I had control over their actions, they would meet my expectations, and I would be happy.

Adding...her expectations demand a certain type of behavior from them. She isn't getting that behavior from them. She wants that behavior from them, otherwise there would be NO expectations. That is where control comes into play.

That is how I see it.

committed

"Here's a question: how does being okay with myself and who I am differ from being self-righteous? And is self-righteousness a mindset or a verb?

Is it that when I am REALLY, truly okay with myself that it suddenly won't really matter what anyone else thinks or feels or does? thereby making my need to be RIGHT moot? and my defensiveness drys up? and I have no desire to control?

I want to know if I am on the right path....help?

Because, dang, that seems really self-actualized. If I am on the right path, then it's going to take me a really long time to get there, because I am only taking baby steps."



"Self-righteous" is an adjective as used above, can also be used as an adverb (she self-righteously stated). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think, JMVHO here, that when you are truly okay with yourself, that yeah, you do listen and care about what other people have to say about you, BUT

and you all know that I personally love the word "but"

BUT

BUT

you retain the right to:
A. disregard it as junk
B. not store it in your operating memory at all
C. store it as interesting, but not useful
D. store it as interesting, and perhaps useful for future reference and/or perusal
E. store it as information for concern, review, and planning
or,
F. store it as valid on its face and immediately put your rear end into action to evoke change in yourself about it


Of course, this is all up to you. Because, if you are okay with yourself, that means it really IS all up to you. YOU decide how it's going to be.

And, yeah, dang, that really IS pretty self-actualized, ain't it?

Wouldn't there be a rip-roaring crappaganza if everybody in turd-land thought LilSis was self-actualized? How would the lawyers put that in their briefs????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Heck, over here in Schoolbus-land, if I have a single day of near normalcy, people want to send CNN in to report. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I do not see expectations and control as the same thing.

Expectations indicates to me that a certain level of social behavior or standard has been set through some means, for example, prior behavior, mutual agreement, social setting norms, etc.

In this case, church lady had historically through prior behaviors in church comforted and assisted those in need. LilSis and this woman had been friends, and this behavior had been exhibited during their interactions. Thus the expectation would be that the behavior would continue through this difficult time. To me, that would be logically defining to LilSis "expectations".

Control, on the other hand, would mean to me causative in nature, i.e., one person CAUSING or attempting to cause the other person to behave in a certain way. If LilSis were to actively do something to attempt the result that the church lady's behavior were to be comforting to LilSis. For example, if LilSis were to call the church lady and say manipulative things to her and her husband or to place herself in their path on repeated occasions so as to increase the likelihood that church lady would be more inclined to have to interact. That, to me, would be more akin to "control".

LilSis has done nothing but express hurt and questioning that the relationship between the two of them has fallen away due to the affair, and that church lady has not contacted her since exposure. She has questioned why, the Christianity basis for this, and also the loss of the friendship that Sis thought was there (both churchlady and husband of churchlady). It has hurt Sis, as the two of them did talk, and Sis did like the woman and thought she might be of comfort. Sis found it very disappointing that this particular woman was not able to be that Christian support Sis thought would be there. The expression of disappointment and hurt is not "control". Just, "hurt" and "frustration", and "anger" at times.

And yes, Sis does take some anger out there, because church lady represents so many people who turned their backs on her early in this process - so many people who did not stand up against this affair, who did not support her, who just were not there for her. Church lady and her husband are just two of them, who seemed to have shied away, among so many others who scurried like cockroaches when the light comes on. It was hurtful back when the affair was exposed, and LilSis still feels the pain. She was just triggered the other day.

That happens to the best of us.
To the worst of us.
And to those of us in between.

It even happens to the cockroaches, which is why they scurry away when the light comes on - LilSis triggered THEM, too.


SIS:

As for the friend who stopped to talk the other day, LilSis, he has no idea how you feel. He's trying to reach across, maybe, or "not get involved", or not be a cockroach anymore. Who knows. Maybe he's tired of being over on the other side? Did you consider that? Maybe he's sort of forced to be in turd-land by the nature of where he works. But he wanted to reach out to you somehow, to bridge over to somehow touch you and let you know....something....I don't know what. Don't try to read his mind, let HIM tell you what it is. He may be back. If he comes back, LISTEN. There might be something important there. It wasn't chance that he came by. I hope he comes back by, so you get a second chance to hear him out.

Schoolbus

I had a whole big long response written, and SB had responded already...far more eloquently that I ever could. She described the relationship between church lady and I to a T. Church lady had been someone that I truly considered a friend, and respected and admired because of her compassion for others and how she shared her faith with me in a way I had never before experienced....she made me WANT to learn more about faith and the Bible. She inspired me. I am hurt and saddened by the loss of that relationship. I had invested in that relationship; her choice to cash it in affected me...regardless of her reasons for doing so.

And SB is also right; church lady is symbolic of other relationships that have also fallen away. I am very, very grateful for the new relationships that have bloomed in their place, however. I am blessed with wonderful friends!

And just so we can put this one to rest: I can't just stop going by the coffee shop. It is around the corner from my house. Literally, around the corner, a block and half away. Whenever possible, I DO go another way, but it is not possible to avoid it at all times. If I need to cross the river, I have to go down that street. It is also the only way I can go to get to the park, which is a real refuge for me and the boys. We enjoy it tremendously.

Yes, I am making a choice to go past there. The alternative would be to move or remain locked up in the house in fear of ever being triggered. I don't want to give WH and RT that much power over ME. I WANT to learn how to deal with this; to grow as a person; to find the strength to become someone who is not devastated whenever I see WH parked there (and he WILL be there).

Knowing that I am okay, just as I am, that I have all I need TODAY, for TODAY, confience and assurance in myself and in God...this is the antidote....not running away or hiding from what IS.

About the cop friend, B, who ran into us the other day. It was an accidental encounter--he turned the corner as we were on a walk--so I don't believe that he was trying to reach out; it FELT more like he was just being polite by acknowledging me. (My assumptions, yes, and I do have that BS fog)

However...your comments prompted me to wonder if maybe God has recently put these people in my path (quite literally) to bring this issue to my awareness:

That I need to work on MYSELF in regards to my relationships with people from whom I have become alienated; I need to begin to mend some fences...if only in my own mind...forgiveness and acceptance.

Think about it...I passed church lady and her H in the park, and B while on another walk to the park...all within a week after months of never seeing them. Also, MIL sent a note last night with the boys, asking to get together for lunch today (I was working).

I'm so torn about MIL. I just don't know how to BE (i.e.; to act); I have NO IDEA. I was thinking about it this morning on the way to work...it's almost as if I can FEEL how I SHOULD be, how to be open, non-judgemental, not trying to control...the self-actualized LS.

Unfortunately, it's only theoretical; I don't know how to ACT that way. I'm afraid that the old habits will jump right back out; that I will become fearful and defensive and controlling. Acting on emotion. The self-righteous LS.

It is as if my understanding of all of this is so tenuous that I'm afraid to try it out in real life. A recently sprained ankle that I don't want to put weight on. I don't know it well enough yet to trot it out in public.

SB: Thank you for checking in. I know you are busy. I hope your new project is going well.