Well once again I haven't posted in some time, Resigned myself to the D, Dr. Harley suggested given our past that things may be inevitable but...........

After bein served 7/19 - I dragged my feet and took my 20 days to answer. Found a very competent marital law atty. and hand delivered my answer to her summons on the day of our 14th anniversary.

We had barely uttered 10 sentances since June, I sent her a card and did not profess love or anything other than saying I couldn't let the day go by without acknowledging it.

She had done some things that made me question her ability to parent - Having our kids lie about things etc and I finally had a talk with both of them a little over 2 weeks ago and told them that we were D'ing - My D took it fairly well but my S was quite upset saying that he thought we were only having a temporary D to work on things.

It is 3 weeks to our first court date, But something has been happening the last few days - Around late Aug. I found a profile on reunion.com and posted a blog entry and sent her an email - She replied back that she had read my blog and heard that I had spoken to our kids regarding 2nd chances but said - "I don't know yet"

I figured that was all the answer I needed and left things alone and trying to work out our D issues.

I checked my email Tues and she had sent me an email saying it was funny that I sent her an email and said that she wouldn't talk to me and when she responded I did not.

I mentioned that her response left me thinking that she really didn't seem like she was looking for a further reply.

She said that it was a way for us to start talking, We exchanged short emails Tues night and she acknowledged the card and thanked me, Also mentioning that she thought I had found someone else and did not want to interfere with that and wished me happiness - I replied that I wasn't involved that it has been hard enough adjusting to things and focusing on work and our children.

She then says that she shouldn't have said anything, That every time she tries to have a conversation she makes a mess out of things, I assured her that I didn't feel that way and at least we were talking.

Shortly after that she said she was tired and needed sleep, I did not hear from her until this morning - I called the kids last night to wish them the best with starting school today and around 9:00am I missed a call from her and she was letting me know that both kids got on the bus and that hopefully they were enjoying their day and that she would talk to me later?

Any conversations we have had she had come across as condescending and ? but today it seemed different.

I don't know what to make of anything, Although I do know that the mortgage for Aug still hasn't been paid, She also backed off her demands that were in the summons and complaint and now after 2+ weeks since our email exchange she wrote to me, Does anyone have any insight?

Also her Bday is Sunday and this is my weekend with the kids, She picks them up @ 10:30 for church - Should I get her a card or something? I had been trying to remain dark and to let her experience the life she chose.

DG... you sound very grounded. Much more so than you have in months. Not pawing at the ground to get something done as you have often been in the past.

If your heart is not ready to let go, you don't have to. If your WW is sending out signals that she may be opening up to you a bit, then do as you have been doing, and let things develop as they will, without any pressure, and perhaps more importantly, without any expectations.

I think your remaining pretty dark has been effective, in spite of the fact you don't describe it as a full blown Plan B. I would stay in that mode indefinitely, and let your W be the one who makes any moves towards more frequent interactions.

There are many stranger things that have happened than getting back with a WW after a divorce. She knows you are not seeing anyone, and that you have remained faithful/hopeful over a long period of time. She knows you have fought for your marriage like a "man" should do. It does sound like she may be seeing some things more clearly than the full fog would allow her to do.

I'd suggest staying your course, taking all the time it takes, until your heart and your mind are in synch. All with little or no expectations. Let her come to you.

And yes, get her a card for her birthday.

Best wishes,
SD

Major Update: I met my W @ the door yesterday when she came to pick up our kids and wished her a happy Bday and the flood gates opened. We talked for 10 min or so and her and the kids left.

I asked my D to wait to give her the Bday card I got her but she didn't and as I was feeling like I put myself out there again, Something happened my W and kids came back and rang my bell and she hugged me and said she was sorry.

I held her for what seemed like forever and we spent the next 3 hrs talking. She said I was welcome to come to her parents for her Bday dinner but I was uncomfortable.

She called when she was done and I spent the night @ our house with her and our children.

She called her atty yesterday to have him call her and she said she wanted to stop our D.

This morning we both got our S off on the bus, She didn't want to go to work - She felt coworkers and her atty would try to talk her out of this.

Last night when we got to the house I went to get a glass of water and when I came back in the room - She asked me to put her wedding ring on!

This morning I told her she didn't have to leave it on if she didn't want to tell everybody yet, She doesn't want to take it off.

Shes taking tomorrow of so we can spend the day together, We talked about how it will be hard to come back and agreed to intense counseling for all of us, She agreed to radical hoonesty, spending 15 hrs/wk together and she came clean about her EA.

What do I do - I am so happy and I don't want to ruin this

Get to a pro-MB marriage counselor and make plan A a way of life. Make sure you meet her ENs, and this is a big one for you, AVOID ALL LBs AT ALL COST! Take things slow and continue to put your taker on a hold for a while. Tell her you love her and she won't regret this decision as you will give her the marriage she has always wanted. I would congratulate you, but you are completely out of the woods just yet, but you are off to a GREAT start!

Way to go dg!

Now is the time to put the "lifetime version" of Plan A into effect. By that I mean you have to keep all of the personal changes you've made in YOU in place, so your F?WW can't accuse you of a bait and switch maneuver.

Recovery is hard, and what I found out is that most of the work is AVOIDING slipping into the same patterns that were in place that made the marriage vulnerable. And changing those patterns in a positive way. You will both have a lot of the same behaviors you had before the A, and as the A becomes "less" important, and repairing the marriage from "bad habits" from before, you'll find that you both "trained" yourselves to behaviors that led to Love Busters. Changing those behaviors is hard, and sometimes it's hard to recognize them until someone has already Love Busted. But now, you will need to take responsibility for those actions, apologize, talk them out, and reform your behaviors.

You will better understand all this when it "happens", but this is just a head's up that it will happen.

Jim is right, get thee to a pro-marriage MC, even using the Harley's if possible, as they get to the heart of the matter, and you waste no time figuring out the MC agenda, as you KNOW the Harley's are pro-marriage, and you've already learned tons about their philosophy.

Again, you have come a long way. There will still be doubts and set-backs, but with the proper tools, you can be writing about your recovery in a few months. A great start to recovery!

Best wishes,
SD

SD - Thank you and I am keeping my eye on the "big" prize.

I mentioned that even before I can come home we need to get the counseling, I mentioned the books and the philosophy.

Retraining to keep the LB's out will be goal #1 - I also asked that we need to move forward min by min, hour by hour and day by day - Baby steps.

My concern is that she will still be working there at least for now, She has come clean although saying that it was never a PA - But that he had ulterior motives and they became very apparent that he was not who he said he was.

She mentioned that he has deep seated anger issues along with other things.

I do feel that she is being as honest as she can be at this point, I also mentioned that we cannot screw up our childrens heads and that by me staying there last night and being there this morning could be very detrimental to their psyche.

She is taking tomorrow off so we can spend the day together just the 2 of us, We are going to celebrate our anniversary that was Aug 7th.

I need to pinch myself to say I am not dreaming but also need to stay grounded as to keep this feeling from allowing us to fall back in our bad habits.

Sorry to post so much, My joy is immense, My W just called and wants me to go to lunch with her and I am picking her up from work in 20 mins

Well deserved joy, dg.... post all you want! Just stay grounded, because it is still a roller coaster, and there will still be moments of set-back.

Now it's up to you to handle those set-backs with the "new" dg63", and continue to make lemonade out of lemons!

Your patience and new approach to your relationship are key at this time. Stay focused, and continue to celebrate even the baby steps!

SD

Thank you all who have helped and we are going to start by reading Dr. Harley's book Fall in Love/Stay in Love together.

I also think we are going to call the Harley's for counseling from them, She seems to be so on board with everything and even asked about her posting here?

We are going to fill out the emotional need questionaire together. I have been staying there since Sunday night.

We spent the whole day together yesterday after getting our children off to school, We celebrated our belated 14th anniversary yesterday.

My W offered to look for another job if I wanted her to?
She finally reached her atty. this morning and mine called just a few min.ago stating they are adjourning the court date, Although she has not terminated the proceedings all together as my atty. stated she has a right to do.

He thinks her atty is playing it safe and leaving the case open but my W has steadfastly stated that she wants this over and to get her final bill.
She has said D is not an option for us, We have been like newlyweds with lots of affection and ILY's - We have laughed, cried and every emotion in between.

Her fog seems to be totally gone and she is as committed to our M more than ever, She has repeatedly said that she notices my changes.

::::applause::: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If the OM works where she currently works, then by all means she should change jobs. As Dr. Harley states, "no contact for life".

Nice of her to offer. Handle this with a delicate and sensitive touch!

SD

Everything is still great, I do have some questions if anyone would like to chime in.

My W is very open to answering any questions I have and I believe she has also made big strides with her honesty issues that had come to light in our M.

I have come to the conclusion that Yes she has to take another job and I am pressing hard for her to write a no contact letter. That being said I do feel she is telling me everything and she doesn't get upset or defensive with anything I ask.

Although when talking last night she has admitted that he has tried to talk to her on Mon and yesterday at work.
She has said that she will not give him the time of day and I believe her and not because she is just saying words but her actions towards me.

She doesn't want to be away from me, she calls me all the time and we email as well during work and we have been inseperable after work.

She has admitted to it becoming physical after she filed for D, I do believe I can trust what she is telling me and I have asked many different ways and have made it comfortable to talk about this and answer my questions.

One of my questions is why do I almost seem to be so forgiving to her concerning the physical aspect and blaming him more? She has shared with me that it was only once that they were together and it was in his vehicle in a empty parking lot and that right after he told her he had to leave to get his kids.

She said she also had to fake with him, I asked her if it was b/c of guilt or b/c he wasn't good and she replied both.

I am more upset of the emotional aspect more than the physical b/c he was telling her things that she wanted to hear that I stopped giving over time. But his only purpose was to "bed" her and after he got what he wanted he basically discarded her.

I mentioned that I do have a lot of anger direceted at him and really moreso for the fact that he treated her like that afterwards as well as how she had said that he was such a good father to his kids, I said if he was such a good father then he should have left you alone completely b/c he obviously didn't care what he was doing to hers and our children.

She had shared with me that my going dark was the way that drew her back, The card that I sent on our anniversary and the card that I gave her on her bday, B/C they didn't really profess love or anything mushy only that I said I couldn't let the days pass w/o acknowledgment.

She said after she read the bday card that I asked the kids to wait to give her until after church, That she realized then what she wanted and that she had it all along with and in me.

He had portrayed himself to her as one way but after she was willing to forsake everything he didn't give her that pie in the sky dream of attention, romantic or genuine caring that she had started to feel the last few years was what she was missing with me.

I was probably all over the board here, But I was hoping for some insight.

Like I said things are absolutely great between us in fact it never has been better, I feel such a connection with my W and I feel satisfied that I make her feel the same.

dg63:

Glad to hear things are going well for you and wife!

I guess there is always some hope!

dg,

I'm not doing this to gloat, but I told you so. I told you your WW was having an affair and your situation wouldn't get better until there was NC w/ OM. That was the real problem, not your WW's laundry list of compaints about you (including being too controlling) that she was using to justify her behavior. You didn't exactly follow the advice or the MB plan that well, but this is proof that the advice and MB plan is spot on. I for one, was probably the only one left posting to you because others had given up on you. Luckily, OM wasn't that into your WW and tossed her aside after he got what he wanted. Please listen to the posters and use MB as a roadmap to restore your M. The first order of business is you defining and enforcing boundaries, the first of which should be NC w/OM for life. Your WW NEEDS to find a job SOONER rather than later, otherwise you are in danger of a false recovery.

Jim,
I am very glad that you and SD stayed around and gave me the support I needed even when I did not listen very well.

But I have now realized that I am living proof that MB principles work, I had lunch with my W today and told her that I will not accept anything other than
1)No Contact letter
2)Finding a job - I will give her time to find a suitable job
3) I want and will also provide to her all email passwords,cell phone acct info, checking/savings acct info, credit card info (all of this has been done already)

4)We only act as one from now on concerning all issues with our M and our family life.

5)There should be no reason other than business meetings where I can reach her or have her contact me as soon as feasibly possible - She has also already agreed to this.

As I mentioned earlier, I am trying to figure out why I am madder at him than my W - I can see it in her the pain she has felt for losing her way but also to see her back the way she was when I married her 14 yrs ago.

Thanks Again for standing by and helping me, I have learned so much and my W has noticed, As SD said this is the time to show that these are life changes and not bait and switch.

I am so grateful to everyone here, Even people who had given up in disgust when I would not listen.

Both parties in the affair are in a fog. The OM in your case sounds like a serial cheater, and is always on the prowl, and caught your FWW in his snare. We've all known guys "like that". Be thankful that once he got what he wanted he chose to discard your W. It's the ones that choose to stay romantically linked where both parties remain in the fog that are the hardest "nuts to crack", regarding getting the wayward to re-engage in the marriage.

Save your anger toward the OM. I fell in the same trap. It only takes "power" that you should have, and "gives" it to the OM. With little effort, and a little more time, he will become insignificant. Your mental energy will be better spent being all you can be for your W, as her esteem has taken a big hit, having been used and discarded. Putting her first in your life, and you first in hers is the key.

I am so delighted this has paid off for all your efforts, even though we had to drag you, kicking and screaming, through the process!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Keep up the good work, dg, and relish your success! Wish your FWW the best from those of us on the board who stuck with you.

SD

Thanks Again SD,

I do understand my anger towards him and I really want to let that go so I can concentrate on us healing.

My W hasn't given me any reason to doubt her, Although I guess today I am feeling a little insecure as Wed. night she shared with me that he tried to talk to her and she said she gave him the cold shoulder, She said she avoids taking smoking breaks where he is.

She has been open to answering any questions even if I ask them more than once. She gave me the password to her cell phone provider and I set up an account where I am the only one who can access on line info - While there I went back through all the bills since last Oct and found that there was over 4 hrs of outgoing calls alone - I can't track #'s from incoming calls.

I sent her a single rose in a vase yesterday and she got it after lunch and called right away, I have been giving her the cards expressing my love and happiness.

Is this normal to go through these types of emotions, She has not given me any reason to doubt her and she truly seems to enjoy our time together.
Lots of affection, conversation, SF has been very very frequent since we have been back together so why am I feeling insecure today?

You are not feeling secure today because there was contact today between your WW and OM. Your WW needs to find another job. You also need to stop being a pushover and assert some boundaries, including her sending a NC letter to OM. If he continues to try and contact her at work, you need to take a copy of the NC letter with you to HR to get OM to stop harassing your WW. I would sit down with your WW (who is not a FWW yet because she still has contact w/ OM although she is somewhat coming out of the fog) and tell her how much contact with OM bothers you, and how you don't feel safe yet because the past 9 months of lies have made it difficult to trust her again. So if she wants to regain some trust, she should work with you to deal with the threat of this OM. If nothing else, at least confront this OM and tell him to leave your WW the [censored] alone or he will at the very least have harassment charges filed against him. This is where you need to get into a new habit of defending your boundaries and affair proofing your marriage because your old habits did not work.

Jim
I know that my W isn't a FWW yet but I do believe she is trying and her honesty with me is a very big step as well.

I have really made it clear that we need to sit down and write the no contact letter together, And specifically mention that he needs to leave her alone at work, out of work and no phone calls and that she is committing herself to her marriage. I am giving her time to find a job that is commensurate to what she earns now but the window is not indefinite.

I have also said to her that if he continues I will be seeing him myself, I only didn't confront hime in the early stages b/c I was being a pushover and now that she wants our M back that I will not stand in the shadows like a mushroom.

She called a while ago while she was on lunch, She sensed I was upset about something and it was only that she went to lunch earlier today and I had mentioned that I would have liked to have seen her even though they are getting ready for inventory. She emailed to ask if I was mad and I emailed back stating that I was feeling a little off today.

Here is part of her response:

(Sorry, IT was updating the computer for tomorrow and then I was in the middle of reading your e mail when this one popped up. No, I am not upset but I had thought I upset you and I was just making sure.

I am not discouraged in any way, shape or form. I am just making sure that I talk to you when I want to and not leaving you out of any part of my life. This is a second chance on life for me and I want to do it the best way possible and I want to keep you involved.



I LOVE YOU TOO")

dg:

Yes, you will continue to be on a roller coaster even if she is completely on board. There is no way you can go through this and not. I think that is why there is so much focus on avoiding the LB's... it would be so easy for those who are BS's.

That being said, Jim is right on all counts.

Thanks Scott, I did mention to her that even though I am very glad that we are working on us and I do believe she wants to be a FWW instead of a WW that I will need time and actions from her to get over some things.

As I mentioned in my early posts that my W has had a tendency to fib and/or lie and that her honesty is a real step forward proving to me that she wants this as much as I do and on many levels we are both seeing the sides that made us A prone and we are trying to put those in the grave as well.

Mine was all my LB's that I brought to our M, And I mentioned what Dr. Harley says that no matter what happens in the M that the A is not my fault due to those things.