I'm going to have to leave out a LOT of detail, as time and space would not allow me to explain everything.

I met my soulmate nearly 8 years ago, and within 2 months of the day we met, we had both left marriages (with children) and moved across the countries (me from US, she from Canada). Things fell perfectly into place. No immigration issues we couldn't deal with. I found a job right away that paid the moving expenses. It was just perfect. Or was it really? My love for this woman remains as strong as ever, and oh man have we been through a lot of pain and heartache over the 8 years.

We are both Giver/Takers who spent years in denial that we were anything but givers. My personality type is blunt, frustrate easily, adult ADHD, who can't hold in a feeling or opinion to save my life. She was quiet and reserved, and initially enjoyed the contrast. But that changed before we even arrived after taking a 2 car caravan from coast to coast.

She started withdrawing early, but at that point she was in total giving mode. I could sense something was wrong, but she'd always assure me all was well. After arriving it seemed like she was further withdrawing, but she blamed it all on the difficult transition between Canada and the US (legitimate to a point).

I continued probing for months, asking stuff I had no business asking, and she would reluctantly answer, and I'd usually go berserk. No violence or anything, I just get loud yelling a lot and can't really hold in my feelings. She'd been very recently involved in a different affair with a 'soulmate' and he wouldn't leave his wife. So she went out and had two very dangerous one night stands when she was alone in a major US city. I quickly discovered she was very secretive and had been communicating wih the former soulmate and old friends abut what an ogre I was. I found this out by snooping and confronted her and all ****** broke loose. Denial, lies, deception, you name it. I reacted in a similar way. Manipulation, borderline verbal abuse.. Anyway you get the picture. It was really bad and very volatile. Before she totaly shut me out, she disclosed that she'd previously been raped. The first was a stranger kidnapping that took her virginity. She was so afraid of her parent's reaction she didn't tell them. She came home beaten half to death and did her chores. It was heartwrenching to hear it. The second was a friend of her boyfriend. They were at his place and her boyfriend left. The guy lured her to the backroom (with people still in the front room) threw her down and raped her then left her there to go back in the living room. When se came out they all laughed at her and she left in shame. Again, she told no one.

The most disturbing thing is she told it all detached and said it was no big deal. She got over it. Ummm no. My undergrad degree is Psych and I knew better. So I pushed for counseling. She wouldn't have anything to do with it. She was fine she said.

For the next 4 years we continued to go through cycle after cycle of trying to fix things. I rarely saw any effort from her, and I always had to be the one to come back even if she hurt me. Don't get me wrong. There was love there.. Or something very deep in both directions. I could feel it, and she said she could. That got us through a lot of really bad times. Our divorces came through and we married a year later. For 5 years I pushed and pushed in a PA way to get her into therapy. Her secret world just got deeper and deeper. She surrounded herself with people who would listen to her lies about abuse and they would try to get her out of the marriage. I noticed that no one where she ever worked visited us, but they sure called her a lot. I would find some evidence and confront her, but it always got twisted around and I ended up blamed in a way I couldn't defend myself.

She was and will always be a master at telling lies. She has something of a martyr/sympathy need here she will seek out others to gain sympathy for anything whether real or imagined. I tolerated way more than I should of, always blaming it on the assaults and unresolved issues.

We went on like this until I had gastric bypass surgery at about our 5 year mark. She had just accepted a very good job in the Midwest, and she ended up utterly amazing in juggling a new challenging job, a cross country move, a husband having surgery, and everything else that goes with it. I saw her doing this, and praised her to high heaven for it, and tried to do everything I could (and a lot I shouldn't have) to help. I quickly lost a lot of weight. Went from about 370 to under 200 lbs. My world changed. I started being accepted. She was always thin and beautiful. I had the surgery for her. I had a very low self esteem and felt inferior. I felt I was embarrassing her being fat.

As I lost weight I formed a bit of narcisism, and this REALLY made things get worst. We were now getting to complete meltdowns on nearly a weekly basis. She withheld nearly all of my needs, and by this point I was intentionally neglecting her. But at the same time I WANTED my marriage to work, so I always kept crawling back.

Then it happenned. She was away on a business trip, and I hated these. She always dropped off theface of the earth when it happened. Wouldn't take my calls, no responses to emails, and she'd get angry that I was checking up on her a lot. I was because I felt in my gut she was cheating. One night she'd given me a fairly unbelievable story about going out with a female colleague. I tried calling her several times around 10PM and each time she'd ignore the calls. I could tell because the cell phones kick to VM on 0 or 4 rings. When she was ignoring me, it would be other numbers of rings. I was frustrated to no end, but then my phone rang. It was her. I answer, but there's no one on the other end. She'd hit the wrong button and did a dialback, but the phone was sitting down and she couldn't hear me saying "Hello? Hello?" What I heard broke my heart. I heard the obvious sound of a bar/lounge, and her voice talking with a guy. This as OBVIOUS where it was going. She was saying things to him that I could have only fantasized about. The agreed to go to hr room, and the phone went dead. I immediately started calling her room. No answer for 2 hours. I'm leaving messages bawling my eyes out saying "Don't do this! Please don't do this!" Her cell phone was shut off. At about 1AM she finally picks up the phone. I said WHY????? WHY DID YOU DO THAT? She is all calm and asks me what I'm talking about. And says she didn't heard the phone ringing. She'd been in bed since around 9. I didn't tell her what I'd heard, I wanted her to tell me.

The next 3 years were the same ups and downs. About a month ago we were at a good point and seemed like we were doing better than ever. I told her about hearing that and asked her about it. She played dumb and said it may have been her and her friend's husband joking around or something. Ummm no. I gave her more detail and se finally admitted she'd been flirting heavily with a stranger, but she eventually realized she was too drunk, and she left him cold. She finally admitted she did ntend at one point to sleep with him but she didn't. I wanted to believe it, and things were getting good, so I let it go. Then we went on vacation last month to her mother's in Canada. The same no 'us' time prevailed there and I was very upset about it. I opted to leave early, and ended up in a very serious crisis visiting my parents that I NEEDED her. She changed from the loving woman she'd been for the previous month into the most evil manipulating woman I'd ever seen. She was refusing to come even though it was the plan. She left me there with a dying mother, and played horrible mind games of not answering my calls and saying she wasn't coming because I was saying mean things to her in VM messages. At any rate.. She paid $700 to fly home a day earlier to avoid drving to comfort me. When I returned the next day she continued. At the airport she finally agreed to pick me up and as soon as she arrived I had a complete nervous breakdown. She was 'kinda' there, but more gratuitory than real care. I moved out, and for the next two months it was mostly bad. She wouldn't agree to a dicorce, I was told to 'do what I had to do'. We'd start recovering a bit, then side back... Worst than ever. I finally got through to her totally by chance... And she started realizing the lifelong impact the assaults had on her. She agreed to counseling. We'd had some counseling before, but as soon as the counselors started telling her she needed to express her feelings to me,she'd quit (and of course blame it on me why we stopped).

It finally hit a head the night before last. I was at the house getting some final things and we were still taking jabs at each other. I knew she still loved me (you'll have to believe me here... the answers to why are in the details I didn't type in). She knew I wanted to work things out, but we were both looking to the other for closure. Out of the blue, I called her a name and said I knew she had sex with the guy that night, and presnted it as a question. She stood there for a minute, dropped and said "I guess it can't hurt to tel you now. Yes, we did" then began sobbing like I'd never seen her do before. My whole existence died right there. She'd betrayed me and admitted to it. I stormed out screaming obscenities I not proud of. Thank god our daughter was away at camp. I left a complete wreck. She did not contact me. After a day I sent her some hate emails, and she sent me back ones about her being not good enough for me and yadda yadda, but no desire to talk.

In a complete reversal from 8 years, she started begging me for forgivenness. She'd previously bought the "His Needs, Her Needs" book and we'd both read it. This book opened doors in my heart and explained things I'd been so misguided on. But I was the only one doing anything... So I quit trying. I started listening to her open up to me like she'd never one before. Even I could see that she could not have had an ungenuine motive. She was very successful in her career and I'd recently lost my job. She had long since had her permanent residency, so my real worth for anything but feelings was at rock bottom. Yet here she was throwing herself at me. I was devastated and could not handle it all. I'd see images in my head and burst out crying out of nowhere. She'd come comfort me genuinely. She answered all of my questions. She took what I would no doubt say was verbal abuse from me over it, and she was broken down as badly as I was. But she hung in there. She answered everything and expressed many times that she'd made a terrible mistake. It was the the first time I'd ever seen these feelings coming from her. She realized it was a mistake when she was doing it, but was too drunk to fight him off (this was after she'd consented, so it wasn't a rape). Her reaction after it was to bury her feelings like she'd learned before. She held in the guilt for 3 years, and remained in our marriage because she wanted to work things out, but her infidelity ate at her and shje jumped back and forth from Giver / Taker trying to fix things (secretly) then Taker to protect herself.

Everything flooded out of her in the past few days, and it was just the one time, but she'd attempted others too.

Ironically, this cheating ended up being a good thing. She has come to terms with her problems, admitted everything (a few other things that were not deal breakers to me) and she is at the table like never before.

We are going to try to get into the San Francisco seminar. She's seen a PTSD specialist twice and we are healing for the first time. I am starting to understand how things came to be. I know a lot of you will look at this and call me an idiot, but there is still a lot of love. With an understanding of our communication problems, ongoing individual and couples counseling, and her willingness to level with me about everything, for the first time I have exhaled. It took me 8 years, but there she is. The woman I love. We are committed disciples of Dr. Harley, and I believe we are going to have the marriage we always dreamed of.

I'll keep you updated. In case my msg is full of typos. My keyboard is fubar. Skips keeys randomly.

Ice

Why would anyone think that?

My friend, you have destroyed your first marriage through infidelity to give birth to your second marriage, which not surprisingly is full of infidelity. Along the way you have left a trail of children who can only be described as collateral damage all so that you can have a “soul mate”. Your wife has done no less and potentially even worse although your story is hard to top.

I can’t help but believe that “Harley” is but a brief stop on your way to the next bus stop to further ruining your life and likely anyone else who becomes involved in your affairs.

However, your first wife (the one you left so that you could be with your soul mate) is cordially invited to these forums. Could you please forward her this thread?

Thanks for your post and run, don’t walk, to the nearest psychiatrist office.

Mr. G

G,

The post was mostly meant as a journal entry. Nice job filling in the gaps. I was separated from my first wife when it happened. I may have articulated something wrong, it was a huge post, but "I" have not 'cheated'.

My ex and I are better friends now than when we were married. She remarried about two years after the divorce became final. I was given a friendly invitation to their wedding (which I declined due to distance).

Nice job with your interpolation, and sensitivity to the post traumatic stress disorder caused by a 14 year old rape victim being too afraid to tell anyone out of shame.

I also left out a pretty critical part about how our Emotional Needs Questionairre was the pivotal piece to her coming to terms with the impact on her life, and to my understanding of how maladaptive my manipulation approach was at getting her there.

Luckily we both have found professionals for our individual counseling with a bit more skill and empathy than an armchair psychologist with unresolved issues with his own spouse's infidelity.

Cheers!

Ice

Ice,

Just trying to get the whole story.... Did you wife cheat on her H to be with you? If this is the case, then you are both in for a long, hard road. Infidelity is a cancer. It spreads and hurts more than just the victim. Please fill in some of the blanks here.

Loni

Update...

It has been anything but peaceful this last week....

Loni... Yes, she cheated when she left with me. She had cheated on her ex several times before me.

Ok... It wasn't a one night stand. It was an affair with a contractor who she met in New Jersey. It happened two times, and the guy damn near raped her the second time, scared her and she ended it. Let's just say the guy was into some very rough stuff, and on the second get together he thought he had enough control to force her into doing things she had no desire doing.

Don't get me wrong... I blame her for it. For the past week I have made it very clear that the 'doormat' no longer exists. I have told her that my focus is to determine if I can get past this, and if she feels my way of working through things is not acceptable to her or worth it, she knows where the door is. I told her that I know that I love her, but I don't know if I will ever trust her again. If I see her sink into a secret life again, it is over.

We both agreed it would be a lot easier for both of us to just end the marriage and at some point start over with someone else... That's really a no-brainer. I have tested her in the past week trying to push her to say 'screw this', but she hasn't. I believe she is fully committed, and after 8 years is NOW ready to have the relationship I thought we had from the beginning.

I am... well, cautiously optimistic.

But man does this ever hurt bad at times... I'll be going along and everything is fine, and some picture will pop in my head and that's all it takes... I breakdown.

I took my daughter to a waterpark yesterday, and a woman was being asked to leave because of some pretty severe open acne sores. The told her that they were sufficiently bad that she would have to exit the water. My mind made some association with this high risk [censored] spreading his filth to my wife, then back to me, and BANG! I lost it.

One day at a time...

poor children <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi Ice.

Thanks for being honest. Here is what I think. You married a problem. She has shown that she is incapable of being true to anyone. She cheated repeatedly on you as well as on her ex. That shows a lack of character, not a mistake. Staying with her is sure to lead to more heartache. As well as exposure to all kinds of STDs.

Can people change? Perhaps. I wouldn't rely on it, though. My XH left me for a woman who cheated on her ex 12 times. I found out she broke up 3 marriages before mine. Is she gonna be faithful to my xh. I doubt it. I was married to him for almost 19 years, loved him, but he isn't so great as to make her never want to stray. For crying out loud, she was teaching Sunday school, going on mission trips and cheating all at the same time.

Have you considered counseling for you (alone or together)? I think a counselor/psychiatrist should see her and get to the bottom of her need for constant attention from the opposite sex. Then you might have an idea of where this marriage is going. My XH is with a sociopath. High functioning ones are in political office. Low functioning ones are in prison. What they have in common is a lack of remorse, concern, empathy for others. These people will only feel badly if it adversely affects them. They won't feel bad for someone else's misfortunes. Let me know if any of this sounds familiar.

Have you thought about what her XH must have felt like when she was cheating on him with you? Your heartache was his as well.

Loni

A lot of updating...

She's been in counseling and has accepted that her history (even predating us) is a severe problem for her. It hasn't been easy for her (or me for that matter), but we are progressing.

She purchased the MB dvd/cd kit and we're working on it. It's a good program, but the editing could use some help.

She's now having a hard time determining what her top needs are. Since reading HNHN I've become better at being a husband and father and determining and meeting all of their needs, and she's been increasingly meeting mine.

I guess in a way I always knew e were both capable of having an affair, and when she started distancing herself from me, I 'felt' it was happening. I just coldn't prove it, and really just wanted us to have a happy life together.... Ignorance is NOT bliss.