For the last couple of months I've been trying to do Plan A with a 180. Last weekend I approached XH about reconciliation and he declined. Didn't say "never" - said "unlikely".

He's still got some unfinished business with GF, but that's just a matter of time, IMO.

So... I'm working on myself and moving forward with life. Reading HNHN now and awaiting Fall in Love, Stay in Love to arrive. Hey - even if it doesn't happen with XH, there are a lot of good life lessons in those volumes, right?

I'm going to paste a copy of the 180 because I have some comments/questions that I could use some feedback on. Since I've already told XH how I feel, the ball is *clearly* in his court now - so some of the stuff in the 180 that I might not have been doing clearly because I was trying to drop hints, I need to hone up on now. I started with my question in another thread about the 4th of July and got good feedback there. That led me to revisit the 180 again, and see where I may be lacking.

I've been told that XH *may* come around if "he feels like he is losing you for real." I think until now he's known that I'm still here for him - in fact he told me he knew how I'd been feeling. I told him I'd leave the door open for a while, but not forever. I still intend to do that - but in order to work the 180 properly, I need to make sure I'm doing things correctly... I'll put my stuff in blue.

THE 180:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!

[color:"blue"] Nope, not doing that, even when I did have "the talk" with him.[/color]

2. No frequent phone calls

[color:"blue"] Nope - I call for business or the kids ONLY, and most of that is by email. [/color]

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

[color:"blue"] Did not do that, even during 'the talk'.[/color]

4. Do not follow spouse around the house

[color:"blue"] Not around the house, but I think I've been doing this here at the shop. I do try to leave him to do his own thing, but I have approached him just to chat - thought that was more part of Plan A, but maybe I should back off on the chit-chat? I think this sort of conflicts a bit with Plan A - suggestions? [/color]

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

[color:"blue"] Nope, haven't done that except during 'the talk' when I said I hoped he would want to come home someday. Other than that, I've kept it in the here and now.[/color]

6. Do not ask for help from family members

[color:"blue"]Family is 1000 miles away except his brother that visits us both periodically for work. No worries there.[/color]

7. Do not ask for reassurances

[color:"blue"]Nope. Don't think it applies since we're divorced.[/color]

8. Do not buy gifts

[color:"blue"]I did get him a Father's Day gift from the kids (they picked) and a card. Otherwise, Christmas, B'day and Father's day - FROM THE KIDS. He did not do the same for me, except a sweater at Christmas from the kids.[/color]

9. Do not schedule dates together

[color:"blue"]I have made some invitations which he's declined. No more. He said he'd declined so as not to lead me on. I'll respect that boundary. No more invitations.[/color]

10. Do not spy on spouse

[color:"blue"]Hard to do when you're divorced. I look at his myspace page now and then (and hers) but I'm pretty limited in what I could look at.[/color]

11. Do not say "I Love You"

[color:"blue"] Did that once back in May. Said it again during the talk. No more.[/color]

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

[color:"blue"]That's what I'm doing - whether he sees it or not.[/color]

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

[color:"blue"]Always! Dressing better, hair fixed, always in a good mood (outwardly anyway!). Losing a few lbs again too![/color]

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

[color:"blue"]Yep, doing things with the kids, and on my own. Went to a pig-pickin' in June (XH covered for me here), took kids with friends to an amusement park a couple of weeks ago... life goes on, right? [/color]

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words

[color:"blue"]Not at home, but at work. I usually greet him when he arrives - would be rude not to. Should I cut down the small talk too? Again, sort of conflicts with the Plan A part... advice?[/color]

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

[color:"blue"]Nope. He has gone out a couple of times in the last couple of months - made a point to tell me he was going too. I figure it's some sort of monthly social thing having to do with his office. Didn't ask, won't ask.[/color]

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life with or without your spouse

[color:"blue"]I understand this statement, but can I be sure he'll notice? If he doesn't care (I do think he does care) but if he's not showing any curiosity or concern, does it mean he isn't noticing? What should I look for, if anything?[/color]

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what spouse will be missing

[color:"blue"]I've been proud of how I've handled his recent AO about my vetoing his crazy vacation plans with the kids. Otherwise, I've been using POJA to the best of my ability in reasonable matters, and he's responded to that quite well.[/color]

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show spouse someone they would want to be around.

[color:"blue"]Yep - been keeping my emotions in check, smiling, being warm and friendly. That's Plan A all the way![/color]

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)

[color:"blue"]Well other than our talk - haven't even gone there, and yep it likely will be a while (if ever).[/color]

21. Never lose your cool

[color:"blue"]Even during his AO I kept my head, and didn't LB, DJ or AO![/color]

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

[color:"blue"]Again could this not be a conflict with Plan A? I'm not over the top, but I am trying to be cheerful and supportive of him when it's appropriate. Suggestions?[/color]

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger)

[color:"blue"]Can't tell *anyone* that their feelings aren't valid - huge LB. If somebody feels it, they feel it - whether it's justified or not. But no, I'm not challenging how he feels about anything.[/color]

24. Be patient

[color:"blue"]That's the *hardest* part, isn't it???[/color]

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you

[color:"blue"]If he's telling me about his day or whatever, I stop what I'm doing and listen attentively.[/color]

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out

[color:"blue"]That's been a hard one for me, but I've succeeded so far - even during his AO/vacation tirade.[/color]

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)

[color:"blue"]Doing just that![/color]

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

[color:"blue"]Doing that too. Gets easier with practice![/color]

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write

[color:"blue"]I sure hope so![/color]

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

[color:"blue"]Even during the talk I wasn't desperate or needy. I've felt it at times, but I'm not going to show it. When I'm feeling that way, I come here for support![/color]

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with yur spouse

[color:"blue"]Not sure I understand this.. should I not talk about things the kids and I are doing? Or am I missing something? I've heard that I need to be a bit more mysterious... should I just not tell him stuff?[/color]

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 5% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared

[color:"blue"]That's a tough one. Hard to know when he does mean it. If I took what he said at face value, then I would give up any hope of him wanting to come home. However his actions still tell me there's a spark there... it just needs some more kindling or something![/color]

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel

[color:"blue"]OK, I won't. But I'm sure there must come a time when one realizes one is beating a dead horse? How does one figure that out?[/color]

34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes

[color:"blue"]Nope. No backsliding here.

JinGA[/color]

Bump - anyone?

Stop the R & ILY talks. You think you are not filling his need but you are and that's bad because it is the WS getting the EN not your H.

You don't need plan A, you need plan B and a dark one. Strictly Kids, business. That s/b it. No R talk at all. He doesn't miss you.....yet.

JMHO,

L.

Well last Sunday and the talk was the LAST talk. The ball is firmly and clearly in his court now, and I WILL honour my promise here not to bring it up again. FWIW, I hadn't broached the subject since Nov/Dec 05 so I don't think I'm beating it to death with frequency.

I was all set to be a bit "cold" today - then he came bouncing in with his new toy (see my other thread).

I don't get it. He's not interested - but he's ACTING interested.

I *wish* I could do a dark Plan B - but we have to get along at work, and that means being social around customers too. A dark Plan B would be much easier on me too... he's not LBing or anything - but it's so hard/frustrating to be around him all the time and be so close, but so far.

For the 6 months that he was away from the business, was as close to a Plan B as I could do - only communicated for the kids, and 95% of that was by email - but GF was living with him then (and I was with XBF)... so we'd basically just moved on. Boy how things have changed for both of us.

Our business is for sale - well I'm waiting for an offer from an individual that has our paperwork.

If/when that happens I *will* be able to go *very* dark.

Funny though, XH, who claimed a few months ago that he is ONLY coming to work at the business as a means to an end til it's sold - hasn't inquired once about the progress with the prospective buyer.

JinGA

You can plan B (w/conditions as needed). The point is to refrain from R talk. Even the slightest R talk will fill their need. They are really desparate creatures but like to suck the life out of the BS in the interim.

My plan B allowed for contact on Mail, $$ and child visitation. That's it.

So when he asked me if I still loved him, I said no. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Then I said, I would like to love my H but can't right now. That left him completely confused. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Well except for the talk I had with him last week (at the start of this thread) there has been NO R talk since late '05.

I totally understand and agree with what you're saying about him not missing me. He can't miss me, because I'm here. I'm always here. I have to be here. I run the business full time, he comes in about 15 hours a week. All day Sat/Sun and the Tues-Wed-Thurs drivebys.

He can't miss me because he knows I'm here. He can do whatever with GF because emotionally, I'm there to fall back on - I KNOW this won't necessarily work to my advantage at this point, because he takes my presence for granted. Believe me if there was a way that I could be completely and totally unavailable - even for a week - I would. Logistically it's not possible because I don't have anybody who could run the shop in my absence.

And if I dropped dead tomorrow, the life insurance would pay the store's debt and it would either be closed down and its assets sold off... the store literally cannot manage without me. Even the fellow that wants to buy it, is very intent on having me stay on to run it. I "am" that shop (and that may sound a bit conceited - but it's true)... what I do is very specialized and people come to me from far and wide.

Sucks to be popular.

But yes - he knows I'm here, knows I'm safe, and that stays in the back of his mind while he carries on, 'not interested'.

It would be a whole lot easier if I could just disappear for a while - let him flounder on his own without me to talk to. Even after we split for a long while I helped him with his finances and all kinds of other stuff - NO MORE. He does all that now, but apparently he still has a need for conversation - and apparently I'm filling that need.

He's never asked me if I still love him. Never.

I want to fill his EN... but not as a crutch.

JinGA

JinGA,

Can you explain the Plan A with 180? Why and when do you use it? Is it just after a D?

Well the 180 is listed in my first post in this thread, and Plan A is plan A. No, not for just after a D - I am *able* to do these as we still have frequent contact (for the business).

Clearly he's about more than all business, but he claims he's not interested in ever coming home...

Methinks he doesn't know what he wants.

JinGA

I was confused about the "180" - thought that it was some kind of different Plan A. It said no spying, which I thought is what you were supposed to do in Plan A.
Anyway, from a novice, it looks like you are doing good. And I agree, he doesn't seem to know what he wants!

To me, the 180 is sort of an in-between thing. It's not quite a Plan A, but it's not quite a plan B. Keep in mind, I'm divorced - I have no legal right to interfere in his life at all - and in fact if I did try to interfere, he could probably take me to court over it.

In *my* situation, I'm not exposing an affair - no affair existed. Years ago when he had an EA - oh boy did I expose that... I had no knowledge of MB or any of that - but I had my gut - and my gut said to blow it out of the water - and did I ever!

I still find that some aspects of Plan A and the 180 do conflict - unfortunately I'm not getting a lot of feedback to this thread in that regard... hopefully the bump will prompt somebody or other to interpret their notions of the conflicts and what I might do to tweak my strategy...

JinGA