|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214 |
We've been to weekly counselling sessions. For the most part, they seem to have helped my FWW(hopefully) identify why she chose to have the affair. No surprise in guessing that I failed to meet some of her emotional needs. She's still in major withdrawal and freely admits to still having strong feelings for the OM. She won't let me back in saying that, although she can see I'm making big changes, she's not sure they will last and feels worried that things will just revert to the way they were after a while. It was almost like she felt that the A was entirely justified by my behaviour.
The counsellor started to get me to talk about my feelings that have for the most part got bottled up for fear of them translating into seriously angry outbursts. For the first time I think it dawned on her that she could have had a part to play in the breakdown of our marriage too.
Worse than that, she's now saying that it is all her fault and is entirely to blame for everything and that it was her that caused me to behave the way I did. Of course that isn't true but it doesn't seem to matter what I say or do to convince her otherwise. She just says that she now feels worthless. This is a common pattern in our relationship. If I voice something that she interprets as a criticism, it is quickly transformed into a universal condemnation of her entire being and all past behaviour.
She has talked about how our marriage has reinforced her low self-esteem that derives from events in her childhood. This all came out in the last counselling session and the counsellor strongly suggested that she seek professional help. She went completely ape about that and became convinced that the counsellor and I had contrived the direction of the session between us. That we had ganged up on her.
I'm about ready to give up on us now. It's been nearly three months and it feels like there is little sign of progress toward reconciliation - maybe I'm missing it? It just feels so cold between us. I just don't see what else I can do to help matters now. What I have been doing doesn't seem to be working.
Any recommendations?
Last edited by Sage_MB; 12/17/07 06:49 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,412
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,412 |
MW,
I can honestly say that it took a full year for recovery after an affair.....and initially, it got worse before it got better. If you think about it logically.....these first three months are the time you find out the details of the affair and you sort through all the yucky things that created vulnerability in the first place. If there is still no contact....my advice is the "hunker down" for the long haul. I completely understand how demoralized and disillusioned you feel. One of the cruelest dynamics of these situations is that as the one who's not foggy....you end up doing a great deal of work even though you're the one who's been hurt the most. Don't give up yet. hugs!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,245
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,245 |
She's still in major withdrawal and freely admits to still having strong feelings for the OM. I might suggest that it is those strong feelings that are what is driving a wall between your wife and you and is preventing you from moving forward. Many here have already discussed the fact that it is almost impossible to move forward if your wife is in contact with the OM. No Contact means exactly that, no email, no far away sightings, no phone calls, no reading old letters or emails, no nothing where he is concerned. If any of those examples are occurring, then your recovery will be problematic. If they have occurred in the four months past then you might feel like you are running a race with her throwing sandbags in front of you. All good things will start with NO CONTACT. If I understood your previous posts then you are relying only on her assurances of NO CONTACT. Do you think she might be motivated to mislead you on this? The question is of course, rhetorical. You already know about the difference between privacy and secrecy and I assume that your wife understands that difference. Am I correct in this assumption or is your wife maintaining a side of her that she keeps out of view? I assume that you are familiar with concept of the “love bank”? Why don’t you take a moment to describe how you are attempting to make “deposits”? Is your wife accepting deposits these days? Is she receptive to your attempts at meeting her emotional needs? You said earlier that you were a poor husband in the past. How were you a poor husband? What did you do that you might consider were poor marriage practices? What is your plan to correct those past poor practices? She just says that she now feels worthless. What value do you see in your wife, perhaps as a mother, as wife and as a general human being? How have you attempted to communicate her value to her? If yes, then does she protest your assurances? If no, then how do you propose to help underwrite her value. Sometimes good people do bad things but their inherent goodness can overcome their mistakes. Her final evaluation of her self-worth will NOT be based on her act of infidelity but will instead be based her actions of today and tomorrow. She is the author and you are her publisher. It is likely the OM has repeatedly reinforced the notion that she is good but it could potentially have much more significance from you as you represent the “injured party”. This becomes more and more apparent the longer she stays separated from the other man through NO CONTACT. I never noticed, but is the OM married? If yes, does his wife know of the affair? Keep your chin up she and you are still very, very early in all this. Mr. G
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows," Bob Dylan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
during private discussions and during MC sessions
try changing
fault & blame
to
accountable & responsible
Last edited by Pepperband; 07/02/07 09:31 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214 |
Thanks for your helpful response Mr G. Here are some replies to your questions. She's still in major withdrawal and freely admits to still having strong feelings for the OM. Am I correct in this assumption or is your wife maintaining a side of her that she keeps out of view? I don't think so and I'm reasonably confident that there is no contact. I assume that you are familiar with concept of the “love bank”? Why don’t you take a moment to describe how you are attempting to make “deposits”? Is your wife accepting deposits these days? Is she receptive to your attempts at meeting her emotional needs? I am familiar with the concept and I am trying but she doesn't appear to be accepting the deposits. She isn't receptive. She does however repeat to the counsellor that she can see I'm making an effort and really trying. You said earlier that you were a poor husband in the past. How were you a poor husband? What did you do that you might consider were poor marriage practices? What is your plan to correct those past poor practices? I'm reluctant to go into too much detail. But I am correcting them. She just says that she now feels worthless. What value do you see in your wife, perhaps as a mother, as wife and as a general human being? How have you attempted to communicate her value to her? If yes, then does she protest your assurances? If no, then how do you propose to help underwrite her value. Lot's and I've tried many times to explain what I think is fantastic about her both verbally and in writing. She says that God could tell her that she was good and she wouldn't believe him at the moment. I never noticed, but is the OM married? If yes, does his wife know of the affair? He's divorced. Keep your chin up she and you are still very, very early in all this.
Mr. G Thanks for the encouragement. It's most appreciated.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214 |
during private discussions and during MC sessions
try changing
fault & blame
to
accountable & responsible Thanks P, that's a very constructive suggestion. I've tried using different language but it still gets translated to fault and blame. Worse is the transformation into a universal and perpetual self-condemnation.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,245
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,245 |
While your wife is in withdraw it will be difficult for you to make deposits into her “love bank”. You see, she has developed a strong emotional connection with the other man and that connection makes it difficult for her to view anything you say or do without suspicion. She might interpret your motivations as self serving without consideration of her interests. Perhaps you have a history that deserves such an interpretation.
Contact with the OM perpetuates her connection with him and love bank deposits are nearly impossible to make. That is why you need to be absolutely sure that NO CONTACT is in place.
Before you can make significant progress towards a recovery, her withdraw must pass. During that time you should consider to continue to work on yourself. Take the undesirable elements or practices of your past and eliminate them for life. That usually requires a philosophical change that will not permit or leave room for behaviors that destructive to your wife, your family and most importantly, you. You will find your road much easier to travel if you adopt philosophical base that is grounded in a “code of morality”, that may or may not be religious in nature. What I am saying is to learn to distinguish between “right and wrong” and then act accordingly. This is something you can do without her participation. It benefits you and quite frankly, it will benefit all those you come in contact with. Further, it will have a positive effect on your wife.
Your wife’s low self-esteem is likely rooted in the violation of her own moral code and her realization of what that can mean to her as a human being. Her self-judgment should be based on who she is “today” and not based on the mistakes of yesterday. You are in a position to help her understand that but it will be better believed by her if it comes from a third party such as a marriage counselor. Once she buys into this truth she will be in the position to help heal her and help you in the process. Another possibility is that she is still wayward and in contact with the other man. As you can tell, that topic of NO CONTACT keeps surfacing. That is because her behavior is mimicking that of a wayward spouse in contact with their affair partner. I might suggest to you that it is prudent to keep your eye on this possibility and stay guarded in case she falters.
You have chosen to make your personal past private and not share it in this thread. That is certainly OK so long as it is not the primary driver for the problems you are currently experiencing with your wife. Even in this land of anonymity it can be difficult to face mistakes of the past. Think nothing of it; just understand that some of the advice given may not be applicable.
On the side, isn’t it interesting that the OM is divorced. Do you know why?
Mr. G
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows," Bob Dylan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214 |
Thanks again Mr G, Another possibility is that she is still wayward and in contact with the other man. As you can tell, that topic of NO CONTACT keeps surfacing. That is because her behavior is mimicking that of a wayward spouse in contact with their affair partner. I might suggest to you that it is prudent to keep your eye on this possibility and stay guarded in case she falters. Naturally my trust is at an all time low so I cannot help being suspicious. However, I monitor phone records and computer usage and there are no signs. However short of hiring a private investigator or bugging her in some way, I can't see what more I can do. If she were determined, it would be simple for her to continue contact. From the way she acts at the moment, I think she is experiencing the grief described as a symptom the withdrawal that comes from no contact. Wishing to keep details of my past behaviour private is simply to ensure anonymity - nothing else. On the side, isn’t it interesting that the OM is divorced. Do you know why? Not really. It's really hard waiting for this withdrawal to pass. I wish there was a way to accelerate it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
MW, you might want to take a gander at this Harley article about withdrawal. Harley tells a woman that he suspects the reason her H is not recovering after 3 months is because contact has not really ended with the affair partner. I would strongly consider that this may be the case here: [i]We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation. Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214 |
Thanks ML, No Contact was broken once by accident about a month after D-day. It was by accident as I was there. There was a very ugly scene which resulted in her leaving for the night and me disclosing to our families. She phoned him that night. She insists that she has had no contact whatsoever since then.
I guess the clock got reset at that point.
I'm sure you will suggest a NC letter. I suggested this early on and she said she would do it if I wanted but it wasn't necessary as she had told him it was over via the phone.
I'm not blinkering myself to the possibility that I'm being duped again but she really is sad and has been for a long time. If she were still seeing him, I would not expect her to mention that she misses him and I would expect to see some other signs that contact was continuing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214 |
I thought that I was at rock bottom and climbing up. I've reached new depths tonight. Experienced MBers like BP, BigK and the like, PLEASE HELP!
After the 'disastrous' weekend following the last counselling session, I wrote my F(?)WW a letter explaining that I thought it was not all her fault and telling her why I loved her. I also suggested a way for us to talk about our relationship in a controlled way, at pre-determined times so she didn't feel under pressure to talk about 'IT' all the time. Before then she said that she felt we were spending too much time together and as a consequence was under relentless pressure. You guessed it - she 'needed space'.
In the letter I said that I wouldn't talk about our relationship again until she instigated it and that she could take me up on the suggestion or put forward anything else.
No response for over two weeks. Nothing.
Cordial relations since.
Tonight she said that she felt terrible about not being able to reciprocate the affections that I had for her, that she was avoiding intimacy at all costs. I tried to persuade her that those feelings would return if she just gave the relationship a chance and worked on it. I also said that if she didn't want to then that's OK. That it's up to her. If she didn't want to try that I'd survive and get over it. A bit of an argument (over what I can't remember) and a few minutes later she said she thinks we ought to end it.
Well I thought I prepared myself for that one - I was wrong.
"OK, no problem", I said.
Then our Son came in. We attended to his needs for a while and continued the conversation after he went to bed.
She started trying to apologise for the way she felt and comfort me by holding my hand. I recoiled and said 'don't touch me!". After a while I suggested that it might be a good idea if she went to stay with her Mother. That got extrapolated into 'I asked her to leave'. I also went into a half-baked idea of Plan B saying it might be better if I never spoke to her again and just arranged for her to have contact with our Son as necessary. This seemed to incense her. How could I possibly believe that she would leave without her Son?
I challenged her that I thought she was still having contact. She was contemptuous. She said this is not about him it's about us and that she hadn't had any contact whatsoever.
She left to go to her Mother's and came back about an hour later repeating that she couldn't leave without her Son. She's upstairs sleeping like a baby which winds me up so much because I can't sleep with worry.
I don't know what to do next. Plan B? If so, how? We can't really afford to run two homes and I feel that I would be putting myself at a disadvantage by moving out. I also feel that I'm the aggrieved party here so why should I?
What should I do?
When one is so emotionally involved, it is really hard to make sense of anything and do something rational. I just don't know what to do now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222 |
STOP LBing! Who cares if she gets angry about your heartfelt letter and interprets it the wrong way? You don't need to correct her. You just need to stay on point, things will get better and you are worth the wait. This is a very important message to get across WSs with low self esteem who had an affair because they were afraid of being alone and thought that you would eventually abandon them. Stop arguing. Suck it up. As long as there is NC, keep up with plan A. Plan B is for breaking up an affair. By your accounts, the affair is over.
Trust me. I speak from experience. For the first 4-6 months after a WW's affair, you should expect nothing from her. That time should be all about snooping to verify NC, meeting her ENs, avoiding LBs at all cost, and helping her get through withdrawal. You need to put your own needs on hold for at least six months if you want to get through this and actually recover your marriage better than ever. Since you have only registered less than 3 months ago, you have got a ways to go. Insinuating that you might leave her if things don't improve (which right now she sure as heck can't see that) will only kill your efforts with someone who is afraid of being alone. She will start looking for the OM or someone else again. You need to be on point saying that you are confident things will improve, and she is worth waiting for. You need to keep that up until you are recovered or until you are 150% sure that you want a divorce. And it can't be that one day you decide you want a divorce because you will change your mind the next. You need to know for several weeks that this is the step you are going to take before you insinuate that you may not be together forever.
This is a marathon and not a sprint. You are in mile 7. There are about 19 more to go. You should apologize for your outburts and reaffirm to your WW that you are going to stick things out with her and you are confident things will get better, but you just lost your cool and you are working on yourself to try and prevent that from happening again. Got it?
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
If you want to recover your M at all costs, Jim is spot on here.
Ask yourself if that is what you really want though... I hear a lot of doubt coming through in your posts...what is it??? Is it the fact that she is mourning the loss of her lover??? Is it the fact that she can't share intimacy with you after giving it to him??? Jim says as long as there is NC keep up plan A. For him that was the way to go and right now he is working on recovering a M...but you better be darn sure that is what you want because you are going to need to feast on your pride for a long time.
Her saying she needs space after you have shown a willingness to recover from her affair indicates that she is at it again. That would be a deal breaker for me...it doesn't need to be for you...Jim's recovery saw at least 5 NC's broken and they are still in recovery. Do you have that in you??? Can you wait a long time for intimacy? Are you comforatble telling your wife to get an STD check and not sleeping with her until she does?
See, Jim handled his situation very well because he had a clear goal. I would have never hung in as long as he did... I give him credit. Are you prepared to go that route... because recovery can be long and hard, with NO guarantees of success.
As far as your son goes... if she leaves, he should stay with you...it is his home and you are his father, every bit as important...more important right now...than his mother. You are the one that is sane right now...she isn't.
So, are you prepared to go this route...if so, Jim can direct you as few can here. Is she worth waiting for? Even after all of this? Is she? Only you can answer that...doesn't matter that I wouldn't or Jim would...you need to decide what you want and then STICK TO A PLAN to make it happen.
MEDC
Last edited by mkeverydaycnt; 07/15/07 10:10 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,107
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,107 |
MW
Pep taught me a very useful thing back in the day:
"a closed mouth gathers no foot".
As Jim says you have to stow that righteously indignant ranting, mate. Its like scratching poison ivy - feels good at the time, but just makes things worse.
So what you need to do is work out the right way to APOLOGISE for your reaction, and assure her that it won't happen again.
It's going to take some diligent plan A'ing to open a positive hailing frequency again.
Secondly, read Braeworth's thread on this forum. His WW was at home feeling nothing after 9.5 weeks of " nc" when Braeworth dicovered she had been in contact all the time.
Dr H makes it very clear that total NC is required in order for the WS to withdraw and STAY withdrawn. ANY contact with OP can reset the clock to zero. I suspet yor WW has been in contact with OP. They NEED to contact them, and they just don't understand how TALKING is wrong. We must be PUNISHING them right? And they're not children I'll speak to who I want !! After all we don't understand that its their true love ! ( puke).
Set a personal boundary of transparent NC.
Tell your wife that if she works to demonstrate to you that there is no contact, you will feel able to invest in recovery, but the effort of vigilance is causing you too much stress.
When Squid took on the job of convincing me of NC, rather than me trying tobust her, life got a whole lot better for us.
If your WW objects she is in contact, simple as that.
Finally, I suggest you practice "loving detachment" in your situation to avoid lovebusting and to smooth out the rollercoaster somewhat.
All blessings
MB Alumni
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214 |
Jim, MEDC Thanks for your replies. Jim, you are right I was LBing and just didn't seem able to stop myself. what is it??? Is it the fact that she is mourning the loss of her lover??? Is it the fact that she can't share intimacy with you after giving it to him??? The doubt coming through in my posts is down to a few things: 1. I'm unconvinced about my chances of success on a constant diet of what seems like no progress. 2. I'm not 100% convinced of NC - can anyone be after being deceived so by the affair? On the one hand she seems to be exhibiting all the signs of withdrawal and she has been making considerable efforts to reassure me that NC is in place. On the other hand, I just can't help being suspicious. We talked about this again this morning. She said she has wanted to contact him but hasn't even though it was hard and that she would tell me if it happened. I'm fairly reassured by this - am I right to be? Like I say, what BS can be 100% confident of NC? 3. I'm frustrated by the fact that she doesn't seem to want to work on resolving any of the issues that were the fundamental cause of the breakdown in our relationship. I might want it all to work but I can't make it happen on my own. 4. She keeps introducing perpetual and insurmountable obstacles as reasons she can't see us succeeding. The latest one is she can't ever see her feelings of intimacy returning. Do you have that in you??? Can you wait a long time for intimacy? Yes. Are you comforatble telling your wife to get an STD check and not sleeping with her until she does? No. Is she worth waiting for? Even after all of this? Is she? Yes. Again I'm thankful for your tough talking responses. They are much appreciated.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 214 |
BP Thanks. I really value your suggestions. So what you need to do is work out the right way to APOLOGISE for your reaction, and assure her that it won't happen again. I did that this morning before reading your reply. She's agreed to more counselling which I hope is a sign of progress. Secondly, read Braeworth's thread... I have been an avid follower of his thread as our experiences seem to have a lot in common. The only difference for me is that I did the exposure after the first bit of contact. As I said to in my reply to Jim and MEDC, what BS can be 100% confident of NC? Even if you hired a PI, they can't be with the WS or OP 24/7 nor could they be 100% sure they intercepted any possible communication between them. I had concluded that the most reliable indicator would be display of withdrawal symptoms that would arise from NC. Set a personal boundary of transparent NC.
Tell your wife that if she works to demonstrate to you that there is no contact, you will feel able to invest in recovery, but the effort of vigilance is causing you too much stress. That's a good suggestion. I haven't put it quite like that to her. I framed it as "it would make me feel a lot better if you ..." so that it didn't appear like a demand. She didn't object and has been trying hard. I learned the other day that she had been doing certain things in an effort to convince me that I was blissfully unaware of like leaving her handbag with me whenever she left me in a public place e.g. to go to the bathroom. I'm not shutting myself off to the possibility of NC being breached, but she would have to be the most brilliant actress to fake the anger, guilt, depression etc. that she continues to display. What else can I look for in her behaviour to verify NC? Finally, I suggest you practice "loving detachment" in your situation to avoid lovebusting and to smooth out the rollercoaster somewhat. Thanks, I'll do a search and start reading about that right now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,107
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,107 |
I was working out a situation with a friend the other day and it occurred to me FINALLY how to describe "loving detachment" in a practically applicable way. In my own affair-battle, and in plan A , loving detachment was without doubt the technique that helped the most to get through the very bad times. It allowed me breathing space to be rational when faced with irrationality. I have advised for panicking folks in the heat of this fight to "detach" but I always struggled to INSTRUCT them how to do it. Well, a day late and a dollar short, but here goes - in case it helps anyone: However vicious or entitled a persons actions may be towards us, and however dark a situation may appear, it is a stark realisation that it is OURSELVES who render events with the power to frighten or hurt outselves. Some folks who tried to adopt loving detachment tried to IGNORE evil purpetrated in their lives and respond with a false rictus smile to the person who is hurting them. That is not what loving detachment is for me and I chide myself for not being able to explain sooner. Loving detachment was a way I found to strip away the scariness I attributed to events and look only at the core elements of these events. I'll start with a non infidelity example : A banana skin skids to a halt at your feet, when you are rushing and feeling low, and you barely miss slipping on it. Things you might think while in an emotional state: "I could have slipped on that ! GOD I might have broken my neck ! I Bet my spouse threw that there to kill me for my insurance ? What if there are more banana skins ? OH NO, I have to LIVE in a workd of banana skins for ever boo hoo hoo !" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> What loving detachment thinks : "A banana skin. I need to step around that so I don't slip. Stay vigilant in case of further banana skins as I can only control my OWN placement of banana skins, not other people's." See ? It doesn't matter if a person tried to sabotage you with that banana skin,OR if it was dropped accidentally by a passing flying monkey, the core challenge, and correct response is identical once you strip away all the layers of portent you ascribe to an event. When Squid would attend karate competitions that I suspcted OM may be at, against my direct request a wellsping of panic and fear surged within me. " She'll be kissing him ! Maybe they're not even at a karate event! Perhaps they've left to elope !" Then I shouted "Stop! Detach! " to myself. Facts : 1. Squid went to referee a weekend competition against my request less than a month after d-day. The only thing I know for sure is she won't be home over Saturday night. 2. Even if she *IS* PA'ing with OM, it does not change our situation.I Expect her to be wayward at this time. I am not "more cuckolded" by this ,if so. 3. I know there IS a competition at the time / place she says and that she is sharing a room with a trustworthy mutual friend. 4. How can I affect this in future ? Well, exposing to OM GF may apply a compulsion to OM not to attend these events. I should expose. 5. The weekend without soaking up Squids poison gives me a respite ! I will take the kids to a childrens' farm ! Loving detachment is DELIBERATELY stripping away portent from events and facts to allow calm rationalisation as to whether you can affect a situation positively or not. It is not ignoring, it is not soaking up, it is not tolerating. It is revealing and dealing with the FACTS as practially as possible. Another real example : Event : Squid is highly entitled and is bullying me in her affair pomp, in the second whole week after NC established. She is making no effort to be transparent nor to work on our marriage. Highly dismissive, vituperative. I am terrified, the kids are being hurt. WHOAH Bob !!! LOVING DETACHMENT MODE PLEASE :What would I do if I were not afraid ? - I'd tell Squid that I would rather live without her than WITH her this mean and disrespectful What am I afraid of ? - That this is the best Squid can ever give me and that she would leave if I enforced a boundary requiring more SO this is a dignity issue. Best case is that I get my baby AND my dignity. Whats the best compromise ? - That I keep my dignity and lose my baby. So, loving detachment, what are the FACTS to consider ? 1. She could leave ANY time she wanted with or without my protecting my dignity 2. If she left as a result of having to respect minimum boundaries, I am only worse off if I value that toxic corruption of a marriage more than my own dignity. 3. If she leaves I will be healthy,have the support of my employer and my kids and we will be fine, after a time of sadness. It is highly unlikely that we will be broken by this. 4. If she stays and respects my boundaries we may all just "win the lottery" !. Decision - restate my boundary to Squid. Lovng Detachment released me from the chains of fear. That night I asked Squid my famous question :" baby WHY are you here ? You said you would stay and work on our marriage - and I am struggling to see anything I would call "marriagebuilding" from you right now. I want you , very much, but I do not need you. Do not stay only because you think I will fall apart if you leave. I will not. The door on this marriage is open - you can leave any time, as can I. Just know that I will not tolerate perceived disrespect for long before I protect myself from it." Squid flipped a switch that night like so many WS do. Even when I make a bad decision using the facts loving detachment presented me, I could simply apply LD to the NEW situation and make a new decision in light of my experience. Does any of this make any sense ? I hope it helps. Regarding vigilance, I realised that Squid needed teh chance to rebuild my tust AND I could never catch her out if she tried hard enouhg however much I exhausted myself in snooping. So I let itgo. "you don't have to work to rebuild my trust in you,but I wonlt stay in a marriage without trust for very long". Not a threat a boundary. Even if your W is not on NC violation, it should be her job to be transparent to you to prevent more hurt and fear in you. if she wants a marriage with you, she will do this IMO.
MB Alumni
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222 |
The only way that I was able to get my WW through the withdrawal of her addiction was to make it so hard to break NC without me detecting that it was no longer worth her while. Since the OM in my situation moved away during the A (and she was going to eventually follow him), it was easier to enforce. I had keylogging spyware installed, I checked her cell phone log, I checked her purse, and I checked her bank accounts. I was fairly certain that I had everything pretty well covered. Sure enough, she tried to find ways around it. The first time she bought a prepaid calling card and called him from a payphone (boy, that is addict behavior, isn't it). I found the calling card in her purse the next day. The second time she thought she got smart enough by throwing the calling card away after using it. Didn't matter, I looked at her bank account online and found a transaction that looked like a calling card. Knowing that she keeps her receipts on her debit card to balance her checkbook, it was easily confirmed. After that, she didn't even try to get around my snooping anymore.
If I were you, I would have a similar system in place until things start improving. You can use GPS, block email, block phone numbers, etc. She is an addict, and it takes special precautions to keep addicts away from the means of their addiction. KNOWING that there truly is NC in place can help keep your own love bank from depleting as fast.
Last edited by jmwc95; 07/16/07 07:51 AM.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222 |
Oh, and in response to what MEDC said, there wasn't that great a cost in steering my marriage back to recovery. Compared to enduring the affair, recovery has been easy, thanks to the insight I gained here about things taking a long time but eventually improving. All I had to do was swallow my pride for 6 months. Maybe that is just too much for MEDC to do (I'm just kidding). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,044 |
well Jim... in a way you are right. Even though you were joking... I do not think it is a matter of it being too tough to swallow pride for that length of time...it is more of a lack of desire to take someone back that has broken NC 5 times. Frankly, it just comes down to a matter of choice and I would choose to not subject myself to the treatment that you went through...I would rather divorce...but that is just a choice. Perhaps if I were 26 I would see things differently...but at 44, I don't need someone dragging me through the mud for 6 months on the "chance" that things might work out(and even here on MB is is just that... a chance)....there are too many other good people out there that don't bring the baggage that a WS does. If a person wants to stick it through...good for them. Personally, I would never again waste time on someone that is attached to someone else...physically or emotionally. Been there...done it...never going back to it. I commend some of those that have done it and recovered a good M.
MEDC
|
|
|
|
1 members (DGTian120),
457
guests, and
87
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,625
Posts2,323,524
Members72,041
| |
Most Online6,102
Jul 3rd, 2025
|
|
|
|
