My wife 'agreed' to NC several times. But wouldn't uphold her end of it. This happened once a week for the first month. She then went nearly 3 weeks NC, and OM emailed her. She shared with me that email...and was proud of herself for doing so. Then turned right around and emailed him back from another account she assumed I didn't know about/have access to.

I waited for 3 days for her to admit it to me. She didn't. Finally one morning she asked me what was wrong. I asked her if she had anything she wanted to tell me...she said no. I sat there for about 5 minutes in complete silence. Didn't say a word. She finally broke down and asked..."you checked my email, didn't you?". I told her I had...and was completed hurt by the fact that she wasn't honest with me about it. She tried to sidestep all of that, and I refused to let her blame me for any of that.

She got angry, stormed downstairs, and sent OM an NC email...FINALLY. Her reasoning in the email sucked..."because [BS] can read my emails and I don't want to hurt him anymore...", but at least it got the message out to OM.

She broke NC again that following weekend...to which OM asked her to never contact him again. And that WAS their last contact.

It took her another few months of counseling, and she came to me and told me that she understood why I was 'checking up on her'. It wasn't that I didn't trust her...it was that I needed that reassurance that I wasn't going to get hurt by her like that again.

So, I'm agreeing with Jim...my wife knew that she couldn't break NC without me knowing, and she now understood how much it hurt me. Had she not been convinced that I would know if she broke NC, she probably would have continued on until our marriage ended.

Me too. I do not disagree with him on this at all. It is however my boundary that I will never tolerate these behaviors again.

I can respect what you're saying, MEDC.

I've make one thing very, very clear to my wife. I will NOT go through this again. If she were to cheat on me again, emotionally or physically...if she gets into another EA or whatever...I will NOT fight to save the marriage.

I was hurt beyond belief when she did this. I will not go through it again. I will leave her if she cheats again. No questions asked.

Now...your position (I think, and correct me if I'm wrong) is that you would leave if your wife cheated on you the first time. I can respect that, and if you were to ever find yourself in that position, I would completely respect you if you did this. Most of us felt that exact same way before d-day. I KNOW that I did. But when d-day hit, that's not what I did. You won't KNOW what you'll do until you're there. You'll think that you know what you'll do...but you may find yourself not reacting as you'd expected at all. It happens...take a look at all of us here on MB that said the same things.

Again, not an attack on you, friend. And hopefully you'll never find yourself in a situation to have to test this.

I didn't leav before with a spouse that cheated on me... it was worth fighting for then. I also hung in there with a fiance that cheated... dumb. Should I re-marry...which, I think I will... I will never go through this tuff again... my clear boundary will be that infidelity will result in divorce...
I will have a pre nup to protect my sons right to my assets in the event of an infidelity too. I can't see giving some woman that cheats on me part of his inheritence. My boundary now is different than it was a few years ago.

I hope you are well Owl.

MEDC

Thanks Bob,

I have read, understood and will try my best to apply.

I've also realised that all my AO's since D-Day have occurred under the same circumstances: late at night after an enjoyable day but also after we'd both had a few drinks. I think those circumstances caused her to start talking but also killed my ability to stow the righteous indignation. So the solution is that I'm off the sauce for the foreseeable future and I will try my best to avoid relationship talk late at night.

Out of the extensive talk yesterday two main themes emerged:

1. She doubts that her desire for SF with me will return. All that is attached to the parallel track of the A and the OP.
2. She feels that her efforts to maintain NC and demonstrate that it is in place to me make her feel like she is in prison.

I plan to 180 on physical contact to deal with #1 but don't really know how to respond to #2.

Any advice on either of them besides "Plan A harder!"?

Thanks!

She feels like she's in prison because she wants to contact OM, but you won't allow it. After her withdrawal from OM is complete (after 4-6 months), she won't feel like she is in prison anymore because you won't be keeping her from contacting OM because she won't want to contact OM anymore. You and her with just have to deal with "prison" in the meantime. Them the rules.

Thanks Jim. I'll continue to try to be patient. 4-6 months? Feels like an age already.

Checked her phone logs yesterday. Several calls to a local law firm. There could be an innocent explanation but looks like she's investigating divorce. I've decided that there is no point in confronting her about it as I've nothing to gain apart from knowing for sure. In the meantime I can prepare for the worst i.e. a Plan B. Anyone tell me the best place to read about a good one of those?

^bump on my last set of questions^

Also had an SMS from her today saying how sorry she was about what was happening and apologising for making me feel unhappy. She was too upset to talk. How do I interpret the significance of that? Further evidence that withdrawal is progressing or something else? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

We had the most awful MC session last week. It all focussed on FWW's need to 'have space'. The counsellor agreed that this might be a good idea as 12 weeks of what we had been doing hadn't resulted in any progress. The counsellor started suggesting a six month separation and I just walked out feeling ganged up on.

We argued furiously that evening with me LB'ing like crazy despite promising myself I would lock it up. I tried really hard not to react to her self-centred entitlement but ashamedly failed. I also mentioned (again against my logical conclusion) that I'd noticed the calls to the law firm. She went ballistic. She had said it was OK to look at her phone records but 'never believed I would actually do it!'. Clearly she didn't really agree to transparency and didn't truly feel the need to demonstrate NC.

In the end I offered to move out for a month to give her this space saying if at the end of that she didn't want to work on our relationship then that would probably be the end of it. We were both cooler the following morning and she has gone to house-sit for a relative with our Son for a week. Something she had suggested but I was reluctant to go along with. She said that she would see how she feels after that.

Bizarrely I was invited over to dinner on the evening of the day she left and she showed tremendous affection to me. Before I agreed to go I said this was kind of defeating the object but she insisted saying it was best for our Son.

I've never felt more lonely and miserable in my life since then including during the immediate aftermath of D-Day.

I'm sure that many of you will tell me that I've made a mistake by agreeing to this limited time apart. I'm sure that many of you will also reaffirm your suspicions that she is breaking NC. I may be seriously naive but I don't think the latter is true.

I could use some more advice and encouragement please!

advice...do not follow that MC's advice. You are getting sucked into separation here and you should be fighting against it. Do not allow this to happen.

Dump the MC and find a marriage friendly counselor that will work with you. Check this site to see if there is one available that adheres to MB philosophy. You can do a search by state.

Encouragement....that is tough to offer right now. You need to stop shooting yourself in the foot here. Develop a plan and stick with it.

I would be very surprised if your wife is not in contact with the OM or maybe even another "om."

Exercise...eat right...take good care of yourself. You need to be strong for this fight.

MEDC

Agree with MEDC - that counsellor is cancer to your marriage. Give him the boot.

Thanks MEDC, BigK

I will not be going to that MC again, I assure you.

I am regularly exercising and eating right.

So, one of my biggest downfalls is Angry Outbursts. These are usually triggered by my WW talking like she was entitled to the affair, blames it all on my behaviour or similar that makes me feel so unfairly treated. I've bought the Love Busters book and am part way through it.

Now with my logical, unemotional head on I know that I should just let it wash over me and not rise. You've all told me to stow my righteous indignation and I want to. I want to lock up that taker.

So how come I find it so difficult? How have you managed it?

If this has been discussed to death in the past, please just point me to the relevant posts.

Many thanks

MW

Can you emotionally step back enough to imagine that poisonous purple frogs are erupting from her mouth when she starts? Frogs that you must avoid at all costs?

Could you use an extra large roll of duct tape?
Scratch that - not exactly a love deposit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

OTOH, if this is something that happens regularly, it might help you to come up with a few truth statements that are delivered with calm.

For ex. "I agree that I contributed to the state of our marriage, however, I disagree that an affair was a/the solution."

I don't know, just a thought. What do you think?

MW:

Well, to give you perspective, read the stories from Bob Pure's postings. His wife was as unrepentant as they come initially.

From my own story, my wife has tried to make it up to me in every way she can for two years, but I never heard the magic words until a couple of weeks ago. Out of the blue, we were driving along, and she said, "I foked up Larry, really bad." Her tone was as sad and contrite as it gets.

Baby steps MW, time, attitude.

Larry

graplin, Larry_

Thanks for replying and for the constructive advice. graplin, I appreciated the laugh. God knows I need more of them in my life right now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

She came round yesterday. Full of feigned sweetness and light. She could see I was hurting depsite my best efforts to put a brave face on. She wasn't doing much better underneath it all. She was affectionate and left trying to reassure me that I was doing a good thing by letting her have this time. :barf:

I thought that I couldn't feel lower but I did after she left.

I feel better this morning and, following Larry_'s advice, spent most of the morning reading Bob Pure's threads. Most inspirational. I just wish I could have locked up my taker as quickly as he appeared to. Whilst reading I came across this post from Pepperband and subsequent exchanges.

Well I must have read similar posts like this including references to aliens, sick people, detachment etc but I think the penny finally dropped. There is a world of difference between reading and understanding. I just hope I get the chance to put this all into practice if/when she returns home.

Boy this is hard.

Well she's been back since Monday. The day before she returned, I did a major clean up of the house. She saw it because she came over to help get our Son ready for a visit to his grandparents for a mini vacation. She sent an effusive text later that day thanking me for not giving her a hard time over going away for the week, giving her some space and my efforts over cleaning.

We've spent a lot of time together and been out every night. Almost zero relationship talk. No AOs from me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> but one DJ which I immediately apologised for <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. She initiates hand holding as we walk, is happy with hugs and caresses but has said she is nervous that I might try to develop that into sex. I promised not to.

Do you think these are good signs?

I feel in limbo - just waiting for her like this and feeling that we're not really doing anything active together to fix our relationship. But I'm doing the right thing (by leaving it to her to initiate any relationship talk, trying to meet her ENs that I know about and avoiding LBs) aren't I?

Just need some reassurance and support.

No need to needlessly apologize to a WS or even Xws.

Let's say you accidently stepped on her foot, you should apologize.

Let's say you asked how she was and she accused you of prying into her business - NO apology needed.

See the difference?

When a WS or Xws claims they are NOT sure if the BS' changes are genuine or lasting, that's fog babble. That is the WS trying to make the BS feel bad. Do NOT feel bad for your changes.

This is where reverse babble comes in handy. Goes something like this:

WS: Yes, I notice your changes...they are good but I fear they won't last and you will revert back to your old self.

BS: Well, my old self wasn't that bad and now I am better. The greater fear is if you remain as a WS. I fear not for me but for you because my improved personality is now willing to leave you in the dust as the gap widens. So you should be more worried that my changes are not only good but permanent. You will have more catching up to do now as I continue to improve.

Wow, does that sound harsh? It is meant to be. The BS should NEVER absorb the WS' babble. NEVER!

JMHO,
L.

Hi Orchid

Thanks for responding.

I do see the difference.

The reason I apologised to her is that I made a disrespectful judgement. It wasn't over some fog babble she had just spouted. I had emotionally trodden on her foot if you like.

Is the following fog babble:

WS: "I don't have those romantic feelings for you any more (read I don't want to have sex with you) and I'm not sure those feelings can ever come back."

If so, what's the reverse babble on that?

Are you suggesting that I'm wrong to avoid initiating talk on our relationship?

I'm confident they will. When you married me did you ever think you'd lose those feelings for me? Feelings can come and go, and I'll be here patiently waiting for them to return.