That is wonderful news that he went to the counselor. You will need to wait and see how good the counselor is. But I know from other's experiences that often the counselor will take some time to make the WS feel comfortable before jumping them about the adultery. In the cases where the counselor sides completely with the BS from the start, the WS often refuses to return.

Also it is excellent that your hubby felt better after the session and he is working on things. Be sure to stay positive, cheerful and give him lots of admiration. I'm very hopeful.

Thank you believer! Your assurance brought tears to my eyes. To tell you the truth, I started crying daily again after the session because I keep asking myself the questions - Was I wrong? Did I over reacted? Did I break a totally innocent 'friendship'? Was it too much of me to ask for NC for life? etc. So I keep looking back at my notes and recall the incidents and that is SO killing me. It reminded me of my WH's infidelity all over again.

So I keep telling myself, it is the counsellor's 'tactic' of getting the WH to open up and accept her and be willing to work with her. And the fact is that it worked. So I should be more happy than sad. But I was secretly worried that if this is to go on, he may get the idea that hey, he really did nothing wrong this time, it was ME who over reacted and carry on in this fog of his. Also, I am worried that at the end of it, she will ask me to lift the NC. But I think I worry too much too prematurely. With your assurance believer, I think I am going on the right track.

I was very tempted to bring this up in the next session - that I was totally miserable for the whole 2 weeks. But maybe it is not a good idea? She gave us an assignment to try to do something nice for each other but don't tell each other about it. Then in the next session, let us 'report' what we found. I guess that is to make us appreciate each other again. So bringing up the bad (how miserable I am) instead of the good (what nice things he did for me) is not ideal at this time maybe?

I wouldn't bring up the bad, and would do the assignment instead. Be sure to find things to admire about him. That is usually a big need for many men.

Time will tell on the counselor. Hopefully she is a good one. He needs no contact for life.

What nice things has he been doing?

Jcool,

I must admit after I’ve read your update on the counseling session yesterday, I felt very disappointed and worried about the fact that the counselor appeared to “side” with your H. I was especially concerned and worried to read that she agreed with your H that you “over reacted and made the situation seemed a lot worse than it has to be”. My first thought while reading your post was that the counselor doesn’t have enough knowledge and experience on infidelity and probably don’t view your H’s past involvement with the OW as emotional infidelity. Therefore my first impulse was to tell you to get another counselor…someone who specializes and understands the damaged caused by infidelity (including emotional infidelity) and are familiar with the MB concepts & principles… But I was afraid my assumptions are wrong and I didn’t want to upset you unnecessarily (that’s why I didn’t post yesterday). Then today, after I’ve read believer’s post to you, I felt relieved and realized that probably this IS just a "tactic" from the counselor to comfort your H before she will address his infidelity. I must say I don’t know how marriage counselors approach these things (me and my H never received marriage counseling, I only received IC), but after I’ve read believer’s post I felt more hopeful. I’m still concerned though… Therefore I was thinking: What’s the possibility of you making a appointment with the counselor alone (before you and your H’s next “joined” session) to just make sure that this is indeed just a “tactic” of the counselor to “comfort” your H to first win his trust and allow him to open up towards her and work with her? That she does specializes in infidelity and most importantly, realize what your H did was emotional infidelity and will address it with him some time (that she will not just sweep it under the “rug”)? I think such a conversation might help you to determine whether you’re really on the right “path” with this specific counselor.

jcool, what are the counselors own qualifications? What is her success rate? What is her clinical experience with infidelity? Does she know about Marriage Builders? What is her opinion of Marriage Builders?

Many MC are themselves DIVORCED or are in unhappy marriages. MC have the absolute WORST record of success of all the counseling specialities. [16% of clients report any benefit at all] Most are just quacks who are not pro-marriage.

Dr. Harley recommends this:

"Questions you may want to ask your counselor: "Are you still in love with your spouse? Is your spouse still in love with you? Do you feel the same chemistry in your marriage that you felt originally?"

If a counselor does not experienced the feeling of love in a marriage that goes beyond two years, he or she is in no position to teach you how to create a permanent love relationship. The reason I am so convinced that love can be permanent is that Joyce and I have had that experience ourselves for over 42 years. Otherwise, we too might be tempted to conclude that it was impossible. And I've witnessed a recovery of passion in literally thousands of couples. I know what it takes -- 15 hours of undivided attention where you meet each other's needs for affection, intimate conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment. As you know, there are some other considerations as well. But that one factor, the meeting of intimate emotional needs, is so important that once you get that part figured out, you will be well on your way toward marital recovery."

Well, my MC is the principal therapist for her organisation and according to their website, she has over 17 years of experience working with married, divorced, widowed couples and constantly had been invited to give lectures and speech in places. She was recommended by one of my friend who went to the same organisation (with another therapist) so I just assumed she should be good.

But anyway, I wrote her an email today. Telling her about my reactions after the initial session and asking her if she felt I need to come in for a 1 to 1 session. I also asked her about her definition of an A and that if she will eventually get to the root of our problems (she asked us to temporarily not to think of the past and work on the assignment first). I guess since we only had 1 session with her, it might be too early to tell what she will try to do. But at least I do know that she is a Catholic and that to her 'a sin in the mind is also a sin'. So I guess that means she regards EA as A as well. The only bad thing is that she is not familar with MB and she had actually asked me to stop snooping and give back the 'space' to my WH. Think my WH was thrilled to hear that.

I must say after the first session, it really changes my WH and that is THE good news. He started sleeping closer to me again (he used to sleep at far end of the bed and refuse to phyiscally touch me in any way, even if it means sleeping close and touching each other's arms for example) and even hugged me while we sleep sometimes. He also started volunteering the information of what are his plans for the evenings (he used to tell me 'if I'm home, I'm home. If I'm not, then I am just somewhere else, don't ask, don't probe). He also started holding my hands as we walked and started talking to me in a softer, not so harsh or impatient tone. So I think for the next session, I will keep out the bad (since I told her about it in the email already) and concentrate on the good.

I am still thinking of 'nice things' to do for him. Any ideas? Right now, I can only think of stopping all those LB behavoir such as not crying in front of him (even when I felt really miserable for the past few days), not asking him where he was and what he was doing etc. I did start complimenting him about how nice of him to make me breakfast, how I think he will do well in his new job etc. Other than that, I do not want to go overboard and start caring too much in case he felt suffocated again.

Let's hope for the best with the counselor. Your husband is slowly making some effort and changes. That is good.

Now you can make any changes you need to make. Think back before the EA and try to remember anything that he complained about. Change those things.

Also try to meet the emotional needs he will let you meet. Sex and admiration are usually toward the top for men.

Dear jcool,

I hope everything will work out for you and your H. I will pray for that.

Take care,
Suzet

Thank you all out there who guided me through the darkest and most painful period of my life. I truly appreciate the help and prayers that I am getting.

The past 2 weeks had been unbelievable. WH made a complete change and was once again the man that I married. But I learned from MB that I should not be too happy too early. But at least I can feel some motivation now to work on the M.

I've emailed the MC and she said she was sorry that I went away feeling the way I felt. But she said it was normal sometimes for people to feel that way after dragging the past out all over again. I will see how the next session goes and keep you guys posted.

I'm so happy to hear things are going well. Don't be surprised if there are some bumps on the recovery road. That is very common, but stick with us and we will help you through those too. I'm glad you have a good counselor.

Hi Believer, talking about bumps on the road... I thought the next post I post here would be one bearing good news again. But I think I just hit the 'down' side of the roller coaster ride.

2 weeks after the 1st MC session was great. WH really put in effort to work on M. Tried to show more concern for me and tried to be more transparent by voluntering information of his whereabouts without having me to ask. He even took me to the place where he proposed to me and we spent a nice, warm evening watching the sun set and holding close to each other. Really thought he came back. 2nd session with MC was ok too. The counsellor tried to get us to work on communication.

But today, WH was suddenly very moody again. Especially after he sent me off to meet my sis for dinner. I tried to sms him during dinner but got a 1 word reply. I knew something was wrong. When I went home, he continued sulking. I tried to get him to talk but he refused initially. Then finally, he told me he felt very lonely. Now, he only spends time with his religious group or with me. While I 'party' away with colleagues, friends and family (sister mainly). He misses his old life when he has more friends. But he realise that after he married me, his world got smaller and smaller and now, after that 'incident' in the office, his former colleagues didn't want to meet him for dinner or chit chat anymore. Also he said he could not trust me anymore too. He do not know by telling me things, will I turn it against him and make him lost more friends, like the OW, I made him lost a special friend.

I am simply very sad that after all these while, he is still thinking of her and wanted to contact her. Yes, I know, this is typical of WS. But I was getting a little hopeful after seeing the change in him after the MC. But things seems to slide back again... I cried again, though I keep telling myself not to, but I simply cannot control the despair that I felt. I always thought that when I married my husband, I am THAT special one in his life. But now, apparently, I am not.

jcool,

He's trying to place blame on you, more fog talk.

It's not YOUR fault he lost all he did, it's consequenses of HIS actions, IOW his own fault.

He won't get anywhere until he owns his choices and stops placing blame.

LC

He simply refuse to admit that what he lost is a result of HIS actions. And he started dragging out little things in the past (both before and after the A) about what a scheming, petty, selfish person I was. We had a horrible argument that night. In fact we almost argued through the night till about 4am in the morning. I keep asking him to respect my boundaries and he would say yes, he will keep to it by behaving appropriately towards other female from now on. BUT can he have the OW as a FRIEND back. I told him no. I wanted NC for life. Then we would start arguing all over again.

This is so painful and I am so tired now. I do not want to ride this roller coaster anymore.

Well, you need to be spending 15 hours a week doing fun things with him. Are you doing that?

Also I would not stay up arguing till all hours of the night. When he starts babbling, just let him know that you know he is hurting, but no contact is a must.

We tried spending as much time as possible together after the 1st counselling session. And I also tried to start going out with my friends again after 'hiding' in pain for the past 1-2 months. But that became a point for his acussation during the argument because he said I made him lose all his friends and yet I have such an 'interesting' life again. ALL his ex-colleagues avoided meeting up with him because they were afraid that they get drawn into the gossips. But I knew for a fact that that wasn't true. He did meet up with 1 or 2 of them for lunch during his 2 weeks stay at home before he start his new job. I also know that he MSN 2-3 of them on a daily basis too. So, his meaning of ALL actually just meant one person - the OW. Now, if he is not meeting his religious group people, he will spend the time with me. He felt terribly lonely. In the heat of our argument, he even grabbed my face and 'thanked' me for making him such a lonely man and helped him lose his one and only special friend (the OW).

I told him NC is a must. But he accused me of eating back my words. He said I promised him that he can have contact again after 1 month. I seriously don't remember that. And I said no. But he keep saying yes, I said it, I said it. And he should know better that I will break my promise. The worse part is that he is actually counting down to the 1 month deadline. He told me another 2 more days and the NC promise will be lifted. This is so wishful thinking on one side! I cannot believe my ears when he said that. I told him fine, if he wants the contact back, he can go ahead. I will just chose not to be married to him. Then he said I threatened him, black mailed him. Why can't I just trust that he just want a FRIEND. I don't know how to reverse babble on that one.

But he knows that he still will not get the OW back even as a friend because she does not want to come between us. The only way is to get me to talk to her and gave her my 'blessings' to their friendship. I felt very used after hearing that because I felt that now the only reason why he promised to work on the M is because he wants me to help him get the OW back! What does he think I am? Maybe I should go into plan D right away. It is so tempting now. To end everything and to give up on this horrible man.

WH continued his black mood and refused to talk to me. Said he wanted to wait till the next MC session. Mean time, leave him alone and expect him to be his bad mood.

He told me he need to find out the truth from me. I asked his truth about what but he refused to elaborate. He said this truth will 'affect his ego, his pride and the way he sees me'.

But the session is still another 10 days from now... I don't know if I can survive that. Pros out there, what should I do? I will still go out with my friends but going home to face him is becoming such a dread. Help!

Continue on Plan A. I would NOT go out with friends right now, because he is supposed to be going through withdrawal. Invite your husband to do fun things with you.

I don't know what "truth" he is talking about, probably just more babble. He probably DOES feel like you have friends and he has lost his. Do the best Plan A that you can manage.

Now I know what started his black mood. Apparently one of his ex-colleagues told him that the OW has been telling others that he (my WH) had lied to her. Don't know why she did that, she doesn't strike me as a gossipy person. But maybe because she didn't want to be labeled as a 'home-breaker'. So the truth that he wants to know from me is what have I told her. He knew I called her once after the final NC was initiated by the OW. He wanted to know what I told her specifically that made her said that. Funny thing is he does not feel that he had lied to her. What fog... I wanted to say 'Duh... you told me that you will not go pick her from work anymore but you continue to do that every single day and you told her that I approved of it. That is not lying???' But I held my tongue. I told him before what I told her but he did not believe me anyway. He said yes, that is why he wanted to call her and ask and check out my story. Then I knew it. It was his excuse of wanting to contact her again.

He doesn't even want to be with me, let alone doing 'fun' things with me.

I felt very tempted to call OW and asked her if she will come out and talk things over face to face with my WH. But it probably will not serve no purpose. It'll probably set my WH back to day 0 of withdrawal again. But I feel so much anger right now. His sense of entitlement, his sense of self righteousness.

It's been 1 month after my Plan A. Too early for Plan B?