Rubydoo:

You asked this in response to my statement:



Quote:
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Somebody who never succumbs to an affair? I applaud them. Thier personal boundaries, etc., have never been tested. But they might be in the future.



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I admit that my personal boundary was tested and I failed miserably. But are you saying here that a person who has not had an A it's because their personal boundaries, etc just haven't been tested yet?

YES.

Affairs can happen to Anybody. You don't leave the factory with a defect, that allows you to have an A later. But I also knew, and for many years, that I was suspectible to the temptation of an A. The circumstances needed to be right. And one day, they were. I hadn't constructed the boundaries properly. Flamingo KNEW this as well. Always suspected that I wasn't "SAFE"

Can Flamingo have an A? She says that should could not have. But she also realizes that all the circumstances hadn't come together for her yet.

But what we learned here?

About the boundaries, and how to be aware of them. Flamingo's is alot higher, and so is mine. (Although, mine had to travel alot more than hers!)

LG

Mimi:

If I ever get to ride around in your GODDESS LEX, we can enjoy some fine wine in that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

When we get to MB party, I'll buy the KEG! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


LG

PS:

However, not enough wine or beer to violate any laws!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

That's interesting LG. Don't think I agree with you though, if I'm understanding you correctly.

I agree that anyone can have an A, but maybe some people are just better at protecting their boundaries than others. Maybe some, like me, have to have their boundaries crossed before realizing how to protect them, while others realize how to protect them before they are ever crossed.

I've personally seen friends of mine whose boundaries were tested quite a few times, but remained protected. Why do you suppose that is?

Not sure that I completely agree, LG.

I think that its entirely possible that there are people out there who HAVE been tested and not succumbed to having an affair. That doesn't mean that they'll pass EVERY test. But they well may have BEEN tested at points along the way.

Make sense?

LG:

NO DRINKING IN MY CAR!!

But I'm absolutely positive that my H would share a beer with ya...loves the STUFF...

RD and Owl:

Can you have an A? And like MEDC says, he won't have one?

It is much more unlikely in all of you that you will have an A. (MEDC has to re-M first, however, but he will not date a M'ed woman, either)

Because you have and understand the boundaries now. Because of what you have learned, because it has been tested, and what you learned because you have been betrayed, and what you have learned here. All these things go into the mix and set your boundaries.

Going forward?

Yes, those boundaries can be diminished, because love is a verb, and you have to keep working on your R and making it better.

And those strenghs in oneself may attract others who might want to make a play.

(In my case? I was sending out the subtle vibes that I was available....Not anymore...I hope! Even indirectly, some things can be mis-interpeted)

That's testing the boundaries. To much testing of these boundaries, should lead one to reexamining what potential vibes thay are emitting.

And the time frames of some affairs may be years before they become a true EA/PA. You really like this person and they are a family friend. And then one day you hide what you have done, and it's "katy, bar the door" time.

Maybe I shouldn't say that "everyone" can have an A.

Maybe I should state, that "everyone" could have an A, if the circumstances were right.

And for some, those circumstances might be so slim that they may never succumb to an A. Dr Harley states that all are vunerable. Which is a better phrasing all around.

LG

PS:

Other reason that someone might not have an A is that they are just too darn ugly.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

No, that's not it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Mimi:



But I'm sure you have a wonderful wicker basket to carry all the things in the trunk to the picnic, Right!

A GODDESS would have nothing less!

LG

LG-

I completely agree with what you just stated. Makes good sense.

I would love to say I'd never have an affair. I would absolutely say that the odds of me having one are VERY VERY slim...but nothing is IMPOSSIBLE. Just very very improbable.

LG, what you said makes a little more sense to me. I just don't agree that anyone who hasn't had an A just hasn't had their boundaries tested yet.

It's not always about character or boundaries. There are also those who simply will never have the opportunity for various reasons.

Some people are just so *difficult* that they have trouble attracting and keeping friends, let alone an affair partner. Those types tend to be either single or will stay married at all costs if they managed to get married in the first place.

The latter could be the ones who are a little harder to get on board with Plan B if they are the BS, and their Plan A's are usually suspiciously viewed by the Ws b/c of the switcheroo in personality. I'm getting off track aren't I?

Original point: Not all have the opportunity but character (or temporary lack of) will neccesarily be a consideration for those that do.

Question: Over the years there have been many FWS's posting who realized the concept of boundaries too late. Some of these are abused individuals, some were raised in empty foster homes. Whatever the reason, how much does not knowing that individuals have the right to have personal boundaries have to do with lack of character? Are they related? Does it matter?

Mimi ... before H & I run off to the Kwik-E Mart for a Squishie and a pink do-nut, I just want to say .... you and your H are both tops in my book !

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

and, YOU are one of the BESTEST MBers around ... you really KNOW your stuff !! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

love ya hunny

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Pep...my dear, dear Pep..who was there that day to help me FORESTALL that LAST POTENTIAL FALSE RECOVERY...

Pep..one of MY GUARDIAN ANGELS..

I didn't want to believe you...

Thank God I listened or he woulda been gone again... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

mimi my dear,

I totally admire people who acknowledge that they are doing something wrong and then have the courage to change, don't you?

I am a big fan of recovered WSes. It takes a tremendous amount of courage and character to face your demons and overcome.

YES, I have the utmost admiration for my H now.

I have just read this entire thread and have a few observations.

1. I don't think character is build or destroyed overnight. Our character is built over years. An affair is an ABERATION of that character unless of course the affair continues or there are multiple affairs. What we practice is what we become. If my wife's affair WAS her character, how could I stay in the marriage?

2. I think anyone who vehmently says they could never have an affair is on dangerous ground. I find safety in knowing I am vulnerable to that alignment of planets, the perfect storm. It keeps my guard up. It helps me make sure I never make that choice.

3. LG - I would happily share a beer with you. I have nothing but admiration for FWS's. After all I am married to one. If I didn't like FWS's how could I stay married to my wife?

4. I do have a problem with alledged "F"WS's who have not made amends for their actions however. You know who you are.

Rubydoo, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. I think most people who become involved in A’s for the first time, have their boundaries crossed before realizing how to protect them and how to be aware of those boundaries. In such cases, those boundaries are crossed unwittingly. It goes together with a lack of protecting personal weaknesses and vulnerabilities...and I think many people getting into A’s are not even aware of those weaknesses/vulnerabilities beforehand. In fact, they might even think they are immune against infidelity and think they have no weakness for it at all and therefore don’t take all the necessary precautions & boundaries during an opposite sex friendship to protect themselves (this was the case with me).

My friendship with OM started out as platonic and slowly & unwittingly crossed boundaries into start of EA after a 3 year period. I was shocked when I’ve eventually realized that I became infatuated (addicted) to him. I was raised with the perception (and by my father’s example) that there is nothing wrong with close opposite sex friendships as long as there is no physical involvement, declarations of love towards each other, discussions of spouses and marriages and other inappropriate discussion etc. As a result of this I had no proper boundaries in place during the friendship – I did not had my “guard” up (also because I thought I was immune against infidelity). As a result of this I took all those small little steps (choices) into the start of EA. I didn't realize I had an EA until after I found this website and learned about it. However, deep down I did know it was wrong in spite of that but I just couldn't quite put my finger on it. At that time I was already “addicted” and I chose to ignore that small little voice (conscience?) and “uncomfortable feeling” ('gut' feeling?) that warned me to be very carefull and also indicated to me that the “friendship” was not healthy and appropriate anymore. I also chose to let my wrong perceptions about opposite sex friendships, lack of awareness/knowledge about healthy boundaries, emotional infidelity etc. interferes with this little voice/conscience.

I’ve listened to Dr Harley’s video clip about infidelity the other day and I could especially associate with the part where he said that some people become friends with the opposite sex and next thing they know they’re ”falling in love” with that person without realising how or why because according to them there was nothing to it (the friendship). Looking back now, I realized how and why it “happened”, but back then I had no clue… Therefore I think knowledge about the dynamics of infidelity and how it starts, and knowledge about how to protect and be aware of personal boundaries and take precautions must become required training/reading before people get married. This alone will save a lot of people the tremendous pain of infidelity because I think the only way a person can 100% safeguard their M's against infidelity and make sure they will never have an A (or never have another A in the case of a FWS) is to take precautions (as already outlined by Dr Harley on the video clip) and be aware and protecting strong boundaries with the opposite sex at all times. IMO this is the only sure way to stay “free” from infidelity and to affair-proof a M (even IF all the “right” circumstances and opportunity to make an A possible arrive). I believe it’s possible to resist any temptation if the right precautions and boundaries are in place, so there is no "excuse" for giving in to temptation.

Ok MEDC, but allow me to put forth that just maybe you haven't considered all avenues where temptation could creep up and bite you in the butt...I know that I certainly had not...My boundaries with strangers were ironclad, it wasn't until I was contacted by an ex boyfriend that I had known since childhood that my boundaries got real fuzzy, real fast...My downfall was that I had no plan for all circumstances that I might encounter...So, I ask you as Steve Harley recently told us that he asks those who are so certain that they will never cheat..."WHAT'S YOUR PLAN?" Without one, you most certainly ARE susceptible to an affair...I'm sure that you probably do, but if not you should count MB as one of your greatest blessings towards helping your protect your weaknesses...You've learned a lot here...I know that I certainly have...

On a side note, just last week I was contacted by yet ANOTHER ex boyfriend...The email seemed friendly enough, and before MB and my plan I would have emailed him back and been friendly...Today, I KNOW just how not worth the risk of emailing him back is...My marriage and family are FAR too important to me to put in any possible harm's way...And even though this is a guy that I dated 22 years ago when I was only 15 years old and I feel NO ATTRACTION to him whatsoever, I'm still playin' it safe...BECAUSE...Who is to say what could develop if I emailed him and because of our past the convo got too friendly? I believe what Dr. Harley says about the low burning flame that could reignite at anytime...I was once attracted to that guy [only the Lord knows why-lol], so who knows? I just know that I don't care to find out, risk my family or the exbf's family...Mr. W and I talked about it and we chose to ignore the email...Best case scenario for all involved as the exbf is married too...That is but one of my many plans to keep myself only unto Mr. W...

MEDC, without a doubt my affair was an abberration of character for me...I had character before the affair, wadded it up and hid it in a box during it and then returned to it in full, maybe even more so after the fact...I am positive of this and no one will ever convince me otherwise-trust me, if you really knew me you'd agree that it's pretty hard for others to speak for me-lol...I was doing okay until, temptation, fuzzy boundaries, familiarity and opportunity collided all at once and then my world and the world of those around me came crashing down...But I was taught and practiced the values and morals that gave me character for years prior to that-I certainly wasn't perfect, far from it, but I had character...I had it, um, that is, until I didn't and that was for a short time, but I came back to what I was originally taught and I am here to stay-I fully recognize my own human nature and I have a plan to deal with and keep that in check-same thing with Mr. W and we have each other as accountablity partners in our Marriage Builders Marriage..."Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." (Proverbs 22:6)

Looking forward to hearing your plan MEDC...

Mrs. W

Wrong.....

I just can't let this bit of misinformation out there...

medc posted:



Recent studies show that MANY...if not the MAJORITY...of prescription drug addicts become addicted after undergoing legitimate treatment involving the use of prescription drugs such as narcotic pain relievers and sedatives.

I have been involved personally in this scenario. I have experienced this situation first hand. I know this from personal and very recent experience. Trust me....I did not hear the first one say that they WANTED to be an addict, nor did they set out to be one. But it happened. It happened after LEGITIMATE use.

That is not a character flaw, in my opinion. A lot of times that did lead, however, to stronger drugs that are illegal. But...one can become a drug addict from legitimate use. As a former officer, I would have thought you would have known that..


hcii

the plan is simple. It is called integrity.... I don't do it unless I can do it in the open.
Example... I have a female friend that has been a friend for years. I recently told her that I couldn't speak to her any more. Why? Because her new BF is insecure that she has male friends. So, instead of introducing me and having us all be friends(because he wasn't interested in doing so), she thought it best that he not know about our friendship continuing. I thought that was deceitful and took my exit.
I do the same thing with ex gf's and even my ex wife....who I have become quite good friends with along with her H and children. Heck, she has even fixed me up on dates! Talk about odd.
So, Mrs W, my plan is just that simple.
I view the Harley's in this respect as the people the are. They are professionals that have helped a lot of people and who have also made those people believe that their "brand" is better than all others....as you say, your Marriage Builders Marriage. Trust me, the bottom line of these smart business people "sings" when it hears those types of words. So, if Dr. H says something here... like you need a plan...people think you do...instead of just living your life by a simple creed....which might be my plan.

Do the right thing. In this respect, I don't have to consider every temptation. All I need to consider is how I will handle them as them come in.

hcii...perhaps you missed where I put prescription drugs in a different class since taking a prescription drug has a health benefit... whereas using crack or coke has no safe dose and has no redeeming health benefit. I really don't feel like going back in the thread to find it, but feel free if you choose to.