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#1903543 07/04/07 10:28 AM
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This is what Dr. Harley says about PLAN B:

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But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.


To me this is saying that PLAN B is part of the PLAN for marital recovery, necessary if PLAN A does not work.

He is not saying that he applauds this as preparation for divorce. He sees it as STRESSFUL and RISKY part of a PLAN FOR MARITAL RECOVERY.

He says above:

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So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."


This particular section speaks to what PEP is stating on Sis' thread.

Last edited by mimi_here; 07/04/07 10:32 AM.

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yes, it does

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care and thoughtfulness


as a final pre-Plan B reminder of why the BS would make a great lifetime partner

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Well .... does say that the RISK is that Plan B will end in divorce.

This is why Plan B should not be started without consulting a professsional (the Harleys!). This is why Plan B should not be used as a manipulation tool in a power struggle with the WS. This is why a BS neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeds to reach detachment and acceptance - because the outcome is not guaranteed.

People just seem to forget that Affairs cause divorce - not plan B.

Plan B just gives the marriage it's best chance to recover!


~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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disrespectful judgement ~~~> when we try to "straighten out" our spouse

Harley says:

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"We often rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouse a favor. If he or she would only see the light of our superior opinion, we tell ourselves, he or she would be much happier. We're just pointing out a personal flaw to help him become a better person."

"When we try to impose our opinions and values on our spouse, we imply that he or she has poor judgement. And that's disrespectful."

"I'm not saying that you shouldn't disagree with your spouse. But I want to encourage you to respectfully disagree. Present your point of view as an opinion, not a fact. And explain why you have that opinion."

and very importantly, Harley adds:

[color:"red"] "You and your spouse each bring both wisdom and foolishness into your marriage. " [/color]

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When I stopped djing my husband I found out he actually had some pretty cool stuff in his head. Sometimes, it was way cooler than what I knew.


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The BS deciding to break Plan B in order to measure the wrongfulness of the WS's character

[color:"red"]is a love bank withdrawl[/color]

and the Plan B letter states "I want to protect the remaining love I have for you"

so the BS breaks their own promise
and trust (what little there was) is further diminished

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I often wonder about another possible outcome of Plan B. And that is the BS (after having no contact with the WS) comes to the realization that life is just FINE without the WS. It is kind of like the WS having no contact with the affair partner. There is an awful withdrawal at first, but that passes.

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I suspect that's what happened to FightingBack. We haven't heard anything from her for a while, and she was sounding happier without the WS.

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Mimi Wrote:
He is not saying that he applauds this as preparation for divorce. He sees it as STRESSFUL and RISKY part of a PLAN FOR MARITAL RECOVERY
Mimi?

Why would you add the word I bolded above ... for effect? You know very well I did not write Harley "applauds" it. Reading your word addition in attempt to change the basic context of what I wrote is somewhat of a disappointment.

For the folks out there, here's what I really wrote to Mimi on LilSis' Fork thread:

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Mimi,

Plan B, according to Harley's methodology, is also preparing for divorce. You realize that, yes?

Once Plan B has run its course, and if not effectual, the next logical step is divorce. Its a migration path methodology (Plan A to Plan B) to recovery. However, Plan B is designed to not only support the opportunity for recovery, but also prepares (detachment & acceptance) the BS should the marriage end in divorce, as Rosey states so eloquently below:


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Rosey wrote:
Well .... does say that the RISK is that Plan B will end in divorce.

This is why Plan B should not be started without consulting a professsional (the Harleys!). This is why Plan B should not be used as a manipulation tool in a power struggle with the WS. [color:"blue"] This is why a BS neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeds to reach detachment and acceptance - because the outcome is not guaranteed.[/color]

People just seem to forget that Affairs cause divorce - not plan B.

Plan B just gives the marriage it's best chance to recover

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Jeepers, JO...

I have a middle-aged brain..

I used the word APPLAUD cause I was in a hurry to get out of here and couldn't think of the word I wanted to use.

Plus, I wasn't specifically referring to anyone's post...my memory isn't that good <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

If hadda been referring to your post this morning, I would have told ya...I didn't specifically remember that YOU had posted that to ME...

Sorry if I offended YOU though for whatever reason..

I have no need to do anything FOR EFFECT..

Last edited by mimi_here; 07/04/07 04:53 PM.

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Once Plan B has run its course, and if not effectual, the next logical step is divorce.


In response to what you said here, though, this is not necessarily so and the Harleys don't say this do they?

I'm referring to where you say..the next LOGICAL step is DIVORCE...

I'm referring to where you say LOGICAL...

For ME, it would not have been LOGICAL to DIVORCE...

I went into PLAN B with the FULL INTENTION of NOT DIVORCING...that's me, though...

The only way that I personally could do PLAN B was in thinking that it would lead to MARITAL RECOVERY...as BR says..

Quote
Plan B just gives the marriage it's best chance to recover!


I read the above information from DR. HARLEY thinking that PLAN B was the ONLY CHANCE THAT I HAD...

I was able to be DETACHED because I had turned it all over to GOD..and had the FAITH that HE would take care of it for me one way or the other...

Regarding DIVORCE, as I told my H in my PBL, he would have to seek a DIVORCE....BUT I would have NO FURTHER CONTACT WITH HIM UNTIL HE ENDED HIS AFFAIR...

Last edited by mimi_here; 07/04/07 05:03 PM.

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Jo wrote:
Once Plan B has run its course, and if not effectual, the next logical step is divorce.

And Mimi responded:
In response to what you said here, though, this is not necessarily so and the Harleys don't say this do they?

Mimi,

No one is saying it [divorce] is initated by the BS. It may or may not be. You're making assumptions again.

Please do remember Mimi, there are quite a few F-BS here who did a "successful" Plan B who ended in divorce where it was initiated by the WS. A BS cannot stop a D, technically. By successful I mean they ended in divorce yet were still deemed "successful" only because Plan B assisted them in accepting and detaching.

Plan B success is not one dimensional.

Question for you Mimi. "IF" divorce was never an option in terms of you initiating it, and your husband never came around, nor initiated divorce either, would you have stayed in Plan B for the remainder of your life?

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The only way that I personally could do PLAN B was in thinking that it would lead to MARITAL RECOVERY...as BR says..

And to be honest, that is where a dis-service is done to some of the people here. It does NOT always lead to recovery...and I think that people might get the impression from you (indirectly or directly) that is ASSURES them of recovery as long as they do it exactly like you did...and to listen to what you say...and to follow your instructions and it will.

Too many times people have to resort to divorce because family financial support is not forthcoming, and it is being squandered on other people. The poster, 'believer' is a case in point for that one. Her ex went through tens of thousands of dollars...while giving her ZIPPO.

It would have been derelict of her to not take some kind of action to protect the family finances, if there were minor children involved.

It is not always going to be possible to save the marriage, it is wrong to tell someone that their marriage can be saved if they do x,y, and z.

JMHO
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My PLAN at that time was surely NOT to be his friend like he wanted me to be...he wanted to cake-eat FOREVER..or as long as possible..both ME and HER..

I thought PLAN B was going to work, though, EVENTUALLY...I had that FAITH..my religious belief..

I was willing to wait out the 2 years...THEN maybe have some gentleman callers... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


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Mimi wrote:
I was willing to wait out the 2 years...THEN maybe have some gentleman callers...

As a detached and reached acceptance divorcee courtesy of Plan B, correct?

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I was willing to wait out the 2 years...THEN maybe have some gentleman callers...

While staying married? As in...adultery?

That would have been a better option to you than to simply divorce an adulterer? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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...THEN maybe have some gentleman callers...

BTW, this was a cute response, as long as you planned to be divorced first. I can guarantee you it would be more than a "maybe" too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Yep..two years of working on detachment and acceptance... to get to the gentleman caller's phase.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I guess I was thinking that I would deal with it when the time came and it seemed a long ways away...

AND yes, I would have gotten a DIVORCE...YUCK....

My assumption was though that my H would have gotten a D if he chose not to return...


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Whether Plan B saves the marriage or not (and we sure hope it does), it is an excellent thing for the BS. It let me detach enough to realize that my life WOULD go on and I WOULD be happy, even without my WH. It gave me peace and a chance to start some personal recovery.

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