This post begins as an offshoot from someone else's post.
From our views, our X's who left seem to have ideal lives, while we still struggle to survive, thrive and do the best we can for our children.
While the X's have GF's/BF's or wives/husbands trying to merge into their happy little family, we who stay on this board tend to be trying to heal and learn from our marriages, and our part in their downfall.
As much as we feel we continue to take the high road, and do the best we can for our children, to our X's and their new SO's we are horrible people who keep them from their cherished children.
There are always two sides to every story. I am disappointed in my X as a parent. If he's improved since he left, I don't see it, other than that he keeps his schedule (with his mom's help). As much as I want for my kids, they will always lack because of X's lack of interest in their activities, desires or needs.

So, who says the X's are better off. For me, I still get all the lies from X and wonder when GF will begin to see through his lies. Or perhaps, they are better suited for each other and she can survive with someone like that.

GF can have him. I wish my X would become the father he believes himself to be, but I don't see it - and I don't think the children do either.
But do I have the right to pass judgement on them? No. I will never know for sure whether she was around when he emotionally, then physically left, but then it really doesn't matter anymore.

I love my children with all my heart, and they are the very best gift that resulted from my M.

Well, newly, I guess everyone who's going to answer will talk about their lives/Xs... So will I <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sooo, I never thought so! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Nothing wrong with doing that, right?
We contributed to our problems in our X-marriages, we weren't perfect (won't be in next one(s) either <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />), but it always help if we know ourselves better than we thought we knew...


Hmmm... And we think of them something different/better, in general? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Nothing wrong to have feelings that are mutual. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Yes, definately.
And you know what? Not so many BSs recognize their mistakes and their lead to their Xs behaviour.
I agree, there are WSs they'd do the same however the BSs behaved... I'm talking about other ones...
And most of us made a mistake at the start - we didn't want to see someone before we said "Yes"; we had illusions, we cherished them, and no wonder awaking was so painful...


My X's not better, moreover, unhappier than I have ever seen him.
Your X GF... will either see, or he's OK for her.
Nothing wrong with that.
Imagine if all women couldn't live with liars, how many poor liars would always and forever stay alone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
This way, evryone finds 'their other half'. And I'm just fine with that.
By the way, my X has not been with the OW for almost 2 years now... One of them saw... in this case both - she saw and he realized what mistake he made...


You are right, it's hard to know.
But I do believe that our WHs started their affairs after they emotionally/physically leaving us...
If they weren't, no woman could take him away... (unless shortly and that nobody knows <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


I don't know if I'd have a child if I weren't with my XH, but I for sure know, looking at my son, that everything he did, I would go through again, just for one smile of my son.
And I do am grateful... if my motherhood of this sooo cute and smart child was my price to pay, I paid nothing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, Illusions and Expectations.
I regret that I believed the words, when the actions rarely followed. I so wanted to believe, that I couldn't see clearly.

Sadly, I feel like my children are paying for my illusion. Had I known this would be the life they had, shuttling back and forth and getting so little emotional support from their father, I don't know what I would have done. Those rose colored glasses are shattered. Now I see a man who is not capable of living himself, much less his children.

Same here, same with most of us...
Lesson learnt... IS IT?!?
I see people around, and they do the same/similar mistakes, they listen to words and not actions... (and at the same time they would tell you they have learnt something...), to escape 'loneliness', to improve financial position, not functioning without having 'someone special', fell in love, many reasons... and I wonder, if I again fall in love, wouldn't I forget the lesson (too)... Or I've got smart enough not to fall in love (with an illusion), before I see I should/shouldn't...
Scio me nihil scire. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This not passing judgment is a fine line when we discuss the circumstances with our children regarding our divorces, especially those involving infidelity.

My children are of ages where they ask questions, ask why this and that happened. I tell them what I think about their father's behavior and my belief he had an affair with the woman he moved in with 2 weeks after the divorce and still lives with. I don't bad mouth their father but do say I don't think his behavior was what it should have been. In a way, that's passing judgment and it's something we ask them to do when they make choices in their own lives using other peoples bad behavior as examples.

I think you have a point, Nams. Sharing our beliefs on behaviors is important for our children. At the same time, passing judgement on a person is best left up the guy in the sky.

My ex is worse off. I knew divorcing would hurt his lifestyle, but I had no choice. I have no idea if it really did anything to him emotionally. I'm pretty sure he feels disgruntled that I have a serious BF. I can't help that. I gave him 3 years of opportunity to change before I moved out. And another year after that!

And Newly, your girls see their father. That counts for something. I know it's not what you'd want, but remember even in intact families, mothers often are unhappy with the way fathers father. Sometimes, it's simply because fathers don't mother.

Your girls are going to be fine.

Hey GG, Hope all is well with you.

We go through periods when we discuss the divorce and the circumstances surrounding that. I'm honest but don't share every detail of why I think what I do. I make a point to say they are free to make up their own mids about what took place as they are placed in the position of having differing views of events from me and ex. ex stating he did not have an affair and giving logistical reason why not, me stating it's my belief he did and that I won't share the details of why I believe that because they are between their father and me.

They all react differently at different times but they don't want to believe their father could have had an affair. At this point it allows them to cope. I'm sure as time goes on the topic will come up again and we will talk more about it. Who knows what they will ask and how I will answer. I'll just wait it out.

Nams, I almost wrote you since I was up your way this weekend. I thought about contacting you for a drive by on the return. Instead, I shopped in Maine on Sunday and got stuck in traffic, so it took over 6 hours to get home.

GG, I so worry that my kids will be fine. DD9 is so distraught by grandpa's death that she's sucking her thumb and pulling out hair with a vengeance. Counselor suggested I cut all her hair off (I'd thought it myself). I took the girls to five states over the weekend, and we'll hit 5 more states in the next 2 weeks.

I really know how you feel. This is NOT the life I wanted for my kids. I can't help but feel so much sadness about my kids living with a broken family. I hate that my kids have been taught that marriage is disposable and if you aren't happy, then go get another person. I hate that they see their dad going to church holding the OW's hand and acting like divorce made it all OK.

But, there isn't a blessed think I can do about it. So, I pray, talk to friends, come on here, and try to remember that my life is going to be OK again and that the kids have been taught many more useful, respectable lessons. I also feel a little sorry for myself too. Sometimes the pity party is too hard to resist. Any ideas on that?

Loni

Count your blessings! Put a hand in front of your face, and name five blessings you have.
Mine: Children, family, friends, Home, job, travel . . .

Also, get outside and out of your head. Meet up with friends. Volunteer.
This weekend, I met up with friends I haven't seen in ages. Both were at my wedding, and it was nice to reconnect.

Thanks Newly.

Loni

Hey newly,

I wish you had to time to get in touch, I could have showed the local sights. Traffic gets worse very year and I don't go to one part of town unless I absolutely have to.

I miss traveling and don't see any in our immediate future, but who knows what the future might bring.

Hi all,

I am sure Nams remembers me...I used to post on TKO when dealing with the infidelity issues of M...D final 6Jun07 but XH was out of the M from Jul05 and out of the house from Oct06...serial cheater. Unfortunately he had many good qualities that kept me as an enabler for over 11 years. He was for 9 years an excellent father to our children and I must agree with the original post that I would do everything all over just to have my 3 children as they are today!

My biggest issues are trying to free myself of the bitterness, resentment and ill feelings from the long struggle. XH lives with one of his OW which he settled on. We moved far, far away with my job and I have sole custody.

I am the currently the happiest and most at peace that I have been in years. I have no complaints but want to free myself of the chains of anger and resentment.

I just finished "Starting Your Best Life Now" which really hits many of my issues on the head. Don't know if it would be helpful for anyone else, but for me it seems completely appropriate for the stage I am currently in.

I wonder the same things about the OW and lies and whether XH is truly happy. I hate that my children are in a broken home and have been torn apart but as everyone else pointed out these things are well beyond my control. I have made it my business to make the four of us as cohesive as possible, to teach them what I believe "family" to be. To do all the things that I had put off due to lack of time, stress or whatever my excuses were.

I am not trying to compensate for the lack of dad in their lives but have identified my shortfalls as mom over the past years and am trying to work on my own issues as a mother and primary care giver. I have found that instead of being more understanding and affectionate my initial reaction to disciplining has been more restrictive and directive...I have had to apologize and sit down and have heart to hearts with my children over the past months explaining that mom's make mistakes and that I should be more loving and less directive...they have been wonderfully resilient and have kept me on track. We have gradually become a solid team and I have seen such love, protectiveness and laughter between them that I have not witnessed in years.

It has not been all cotton candy and teddy bears, we have had some small battles in establishing rules, routines and boudaries but as long as I lovingly maintain them it seems things move along quite well. I have had many crying episodes but have found they all seem to be centered around what could have been and not what was.

If anyone has any other advice, reading recommendations etc I would be game. Thanks for reading if you got this far:)

2mhb

Hi 2much! Of course I remember you and was happy to see you posted on TKO not long ago, catching us up.

Things in your world are sounding good. The bitterness and resentment lessen with time but there are moments, triggers too, that will bring those feelings flooding back into your life. How much control you give them, how much you allow them to influence your present, is the key.

Just over the last couple of days I found myself all pissed off about some ex related thing, but the feelings were gone almost as quickly as they surfaced...Time...one of the great healers.

I too feel the boys and I are making a great, supportive family. They do see their father but he can be selfish and they recognize that. They look to me for the cozy family stuff and that makes me happy because it's what I've striven to give them post divorce, pre-D as well. We don't get to do all the things we could while ex was with us but I've explained I've sacrificed making more money for time with them and, for the most part, they get it and appreciate it.

Welcome to the board, there are lots of great people with experience here and we even have fun sometimes.

LOL nams...wow you even have fun!!! I miss the sarcasm, whit and goofy humor of TKO...feel like it (along with all of the cast of characters) held my hand through some of the darkest most painful days of I!!!

My kiddos are a bit younger than yours but my oldest (soon to be 11) definitely gets most things except for the sharing of "dad" info. She periodically says things that are definitely triggers such as...you should see dad's bedroom...he has XYZ etc. Now this is a man who has not contributed financially to us for 2 years due to his own selfishness. That is fine as I had been the sole income for the greater part of a decade and understand the sacrifices he made to be the SAHD. The kicker is however that I never once put myself ahead of our children...I don't want to hear about dad's material goods or gifts he has bought OW or her family...it makes me physically ill. These are the things I am trying to deal with.

CS payments should be coming soon as they are drafted from pays in the state we divorced. It isn't much but at least is something. XH states his plan is to send more when he makes more...WORDS, WORDS, WORDS. If ever there are actions to back up the words then I will be shocked. I could actually care less about the money it is the fact that he elects to spend on himself and OW...of course this is something I would never point out to kiddos but eventually if it continues they will figure out for themselves.

XH also had vasectomy reversed prior to official divorce while on my insurance...initially fired me up as he did it behind my back and then lied about it...surprise, surprise but I guess if I had made a major decision based on my M and then things changed I would want the freedom to have that option again later. Just makes me feel like he thinks kids are disposable as he basically threw his to the wayside for a new life and has none of the responsibilities of parenting but yet is contemplating more kids with OW in future...amazing...yep these are the chains I need to get rid of so that I can truly enjoy life free of any of this ugliness.

I do not want to just shove it all into some corner and not deal with it...that's why I am looking for ways to deal and be able to move on. Distance and a new start has been a tremendous help...it is just when I am not busy or like you said something triggers it things start flooding back with the old feelings and pain. Makes me wonder how long it will really take or if you ever really completely heal. I know it is very early for me and I have to be patient but that is not one of my strong traits:)

Thanks for the advice and feel free to send some fun my way!

2mhb

I can absolutely relate to the kids saying things like you should see this and that about their father's new life. My youngest (he's 12) has said to me many times that I should get to know ex's GF because she's nice and has a pool and blah, blah, blah. I usually respond by saying how happy it makes me that she and her family are nice to them. He'll often press by saying that I really don't know her and should come to their, GF's house where ex lives, to "get to know her". The "funny" thing is he's the child who was having such a difficult time this past year because he said his
father lost all his "trust and respect" because of his father's treatment of him and the situation with the GF. I don't think all the pieces fit neatly into place when the kids are young, or for that matter, at any age.

There's always going to be chit to deal with, and this is especially true when you have kids together. The fact that you're far from their father will have it's own set of good and bad things to deal with. Because they won't see him much they may come to gloss over the crap and remember only the good. You know, kinda like child birth. Or maybe they will come to not want much to do with him because he won't make efforts on their behalf. Time will tell.

Gotta say the vasectomy reversal would piss me off too. One thing I was pleased with was that ex had a vasectomy and my boys wouldn't have little "steps" to compete with for their father's attention. He may be older than your ex, 45, so who knows how he'd feel about starting another family. My guess is it would interfere with the life he envisioned for himself which is one without the day to day responsibility of raising children. Plus GF is younger but still getting up there for having kids, she's around 38, 40.

Shoving all the chit down doesn't work and recognizing that is a good thing. It's painful and we may not want to deal with the feelings when they pop up at the most inopportune moments but if you do you'll be stronger and better able to put the chit in it's proper place.

You're doing fine. Time, distance, new people in your life, your work, they all help to replace the hole left by the ex's on their quest for a new and better life. When you're ready, you may be lucky enough to meet a good man who will compliment your life.

Oh, meant to add this: Since stuff always comes up with exs it's important to know what stuff to pursue and what to let go. I think that's a constant struggle and not usually very clear.

For example, my oldest, 16, told me in the course of conversation that his father had done some investing and was making big money in some particular area. What crossed my mind was the fact that ex had a huge credit card debt of which he was asking me to assume half, saying it was family debt, as part of our D settlement. I wanted to see the charges before assuming the debt but he refused to show it even though requested to by the attorneys. My feeling was he didn't want to show the history because it would confirm purchases involving his GF or that he was taking money to stash then trying to get me to pay for it.

As it turned out he dropped his request for me to assume half. However, with the new revelation by my son I wonder if I should or can re-open the credit card issue as money that was made during the marriage and is rightly fully half mine. Should I let it go as done and gone? Do I want the aggravation and cost? Do I want to antagonize ex? Do I simply store it away for another time when I may be able to pursue it? There really is no "right" answer but it is something that must be dealt with one way or another. Chit and a pain in my a.s no matter what I decide.