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And Bob as far as the other site, I too was a "member" there and I stand by my words as to what transpired there. If the truth is an insult to some... well, so be it. And perhaps things have changed over there, I can only pseak of what I saw before I decided to take my leave from that board that did conspire to discredit and attack people on this board. It happened then... even if it does not happen now.
and Bob... the "free sample" quote is not mine... nor do I agree with it.
Last edited by mkeverydaycnt; 07/05/07 12:11 PM.
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Again;
Where did MEDC call them "charletans"? -- answer: Never.
(regardless of your interpretation of his meaning...)
Where did MEDC say "Dr. Harley HOPES people have affairs"?
Answer: Never.
(regardless of your interpretations of his meaning....)
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I've seen you do this so many times Mel.
So I'm going to be the dog-with-the-bone this time. Like you ususally are when trying to make a point.
Where did he say any of those words?
And if you cannot prove it -- apologize for your misquoting.
More likely you'll blow me off and say you don't care about my opinion.
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medc, The fallacious argument being used against you is called the "straw man fallacy" Description of Straw Man
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.
Examples of Straw Man
1. Prof. Jones: "The university just cut our yearly budget by $10,000."
Prof. Smith: "What are we going to do?"
Prof. Brown: "I think we should eliminate one of the teaching assistant positions. That would take care of it."
Prof. Jones: "We could reduce our scheduled raises instead."
Prof. Brown: " I can't understand why you want to bleed us dry like that, Jones."
2. "Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that."
3. Bill and Jill are arguing about cleaning out their closets:
Jill: "We should clean out the closets. They are getting a bit messy."
Bill: "Why, we just went through those closets last year. Do we have to clean them out everyday?"
Jill: "I never said anything about cleaning them out every day. You just want too keep all your junk forever, which is just ridiculous." I think you "mildly" implied that the Harley's were unscrupulous, but your main point was the MB is a business. But then.....your implication was distorted, exaggerated and attacked.
Last edited by star*fish; 07/05/07 12:17 PM.
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And Bob as far as the other site, I too was a "member" there and I stand by my words as to what transpired there. If the truth is an insult to some... well, so be it. And perhaps things have changed over there, I can only pseak of what I saw before I decided to take my leave from that board that did conspire to discredit and attack people on this board. It happened then... even if it does not happen now. MEDC, you are being very dishonest. What transpired on my board when you were there was *YOUR* PLOT to discredit your targeted list of WAYWARDS that you had composed as "Marriage Builders Most Dangerous People." You posted such a thread on MB, [Suzet was on that list and was quite upset] so it really is funny that you would come here and accuse others of doing the VERY THING YOU DID. You even came into the CHAT ROOM on my board and tried to gain support for your little plot and folks rolled their eyes and ignored you. This is why you were always IGNORED in chat. You took your leave, not because of some imaginary "plot" on my board, but because one of the members there kicked your [censored] in a debate on Marriage Builders. Specifically, you stated you were leaving because she "questioned your motives" in a debate on MB. This is exactly what you said in your goodbye cruel forum thread addressed TO ME on Septamber 7, 2006. [I still have it] You left in a huff on September 7th, 06. So, lets not rewrite history, MEDC, your rendition is dishonest and you know it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I don't think they are unscrupulous at all. If they called this a ministry, I would think they were... but I see this as a well run business meant to maximize profit and attract customers.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious flaws in the argument.
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well said Starfish.
Mel -- why don't you start another thread on THAT debate, and answer my previous questions on specific quotes from MEDC that called the Harley's charletans and where Dr. Harley HOPES people have affairs.....
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Mel once again is twisting history... yes, I did discuss there and post here the list of some posters to ignore. I put my feelings out there and here for all to see. But I do not hide like Mel does behind a smile to posters that she has trashed in private. I speak my words plainly and honestly.
As far as me being ignored on chat over there, she is a liar... but again, that is nothing new...she has been for quite some time.
And Mel, I will not be the only one willing to stand up and discuss the details of what happened on your board at that time.
Someone else here will be willing to do the same.
Last edited by mkeverydaycnt; 07/05/07 12:33 PM.
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"I just don't feel that way"
"I need space"
"I can't change my feelings"
"I LOVE YOU BUT I'M NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU"
"Too much has happened"
Then it has a checklist:
"Answers"
"Solutions"
"Plans" While I totally understand where both MEDC and Mel are coming from, those "catch phrases" being referred to are all things I said to my H when I was actively involved in my A. I think MEDC was referring to them as marketing tools used to draw people into the site (it worked for me... "holy cow, look at that... I said those things! How do they know how I feel? I'm unique, da*n it!" click* click* click*) I can also see how using the term "catch phrases" can be extremely offensive to those who have been so rofoundly affected by infidelity... it seems to trivialize people's experiences. I, for one, think the Harleys are angels on this earth and would do this for next to nothing if they could. They wouldn't be so passionate and have such an extensive site if they didn't strongly believe in what they were doing. We ALL know they are right... that's why we are here. I love my job... it is my calling. I go above and beyond what I'm requested or paid to do, because I believe so strongly in what I am doing. If I made a lot of money doing it... great. I don't, and I don't care. I make enough to pay my bills and live blessedly with my incredible husband, thanks to the Harleys and this site. I guarantee they would say the same thing if asked. KM
Me: FWW (34)
H: BS (35)
Together 12 years, no children (yet)
LTA: 3 years
D-Day: Sept. 13, 2005 (I confessed)
So blessed, thankful and happy for my wonderful H...
"God lives in the gathering of saints."
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or apologize for your misquoting....
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To MEDC:
I think you "mildly" implied that the Harley's were unscrupulous, but your main point was the MB is a business. But then.....your implication was distorted, exaggerated and attacked. Whether "mildly" or "strongly," suggesting that the Harleys are unscrupulous is outrageously insulting and FALSE so I am amazed that you would focus on the manner in which it was called out, rather than the SUBSTANCE of the accusation. Saying that the "main point" was that "MB is a business" does not erase the injustice of such an accusation. Such an implication SHOULD BE "attacked" because it is false and unjust.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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so, I while I will respect a requested confidentiality, I would ask the poster I am referencing above to jump in here as they see fit.
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MEDC You said and Bob... the "free sample" quote is not mine... nor do I agree with it. I was not quoting you. I was interpreting your statements around This forum does not exist out of a philanthropic interest. by comparing them to freeware - where a limited value offering is given free in order to sell more functional items. Thats why I put "freeware" in quotes. I was trying to point out that far from being "catchphrases to attract buyers of Harley services" ( my summary of the thrust of your diatribe, again not an attempt to quote you) this site contains a very comprehensive set of resources that people with no assets but a PC and dial up line can use to save their marriage, just as I did. Just like I use my talents for top dollar clients who will pay for them and for free where I can, I am sure Dr. Harley does the same with this site. Thats all.
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KM... to me there is nothing negative about a catch phrase. If others take it that way, then they should clarify what was meant.
See it is hard to slam me for calling the Harley's frauds when just days before I was posting how valuable his video was(in a thread that Mel started by the way). I even went so far as to bump it to keep it up top. I wouldn't do that for a fraud. It's not my style.
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Thanks Bob. I was just clarifying sonce I have been misquoted repeatedly the last few days.
Your point is agreed with and understood.
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Now that everyone has said thir peace, I will ask that this thread either be locked or deleted. I feel no desire or need to continue this debate... while I certainly appreciate the support from some and respectful inquiries from others, I have better things to do with my day than to sit here and debate or have others do so for me.
MEDC
signing off and heading to Costco.
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oh what crap!
MEDC expressed ADMIRATION for the Harley's marketing and business ACUMEN.
And now Mel is "outragously insulted" and on the attack.
And feels free to twist, manipulate, and misquote.
You can try as hard as you want to Mel, but its not flying.
MEDC simply did not accuse them of fraudulent behavior or insult them in any way.
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"Suzet... you might as well drop this, as I am done trying to convince you that I will never have an affair... and that I will never be vulnerable to one either. As much as the Harley's would like everyone to buy their books and follow their brand advice, there are some people that are just never going to have an affair. That doesn't make them better people....just better in this one area."
This is where this whole argument got going. MEDC didn't like being told he too was hardwired for an A just because the Harleys "said so". He seems to think it's just a ploy to get people buy books. I don't think that's the case, they aren't the only "professionals" out there with the same opinion on the topic.
I have no idea if the Harleys view this as a ministry or a business... what if it's somewhere in the middle? A passionate calling to help others that also happens to help them make a living. I've seen countless BS's and WS's helped by this site and the people who contribute to it. So whatever it is, a ministry or a business, it's worth it.
One thing that I think is clear is ML and MEDC are both strongly opinionated people who don't like their views questioned in the least. I find that interesting considering they question people's beliefs on here quite frequently.
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Mel feel free to believe the Harley's provide everything for charitable, generous, heartfelt, passionate desire to save marriages.
MEDC feel free to believe the Harley's provide everything to earn their living and make a buck or two.
And everyone else, feel free to believe whatever you want.
We're all here because there is value to this site.
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MEDC simply did not accuse them of fraudulent behavior or insult them in any way. Maybe it is NOT unscrupulous *TO YOU* to capitalize on someone's GRIEF for the purpose of making money, but it is very unscrupulous in my world. I find the implication very INSULTING. AND VERY UNTRUE, knowing Dr. Harley.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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