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Marriage Builders Forums Our Archives Archived Read-Only Posts Inactive: General Questions why can't i

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why can't i #1905328 07/07/07 12:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15 E eggchaser OP Junior Member
OP eggchaser Junior Member E Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15	Help me folks. I am completely stuck. I don't seem to be able to expose my wifes ongoing affair to the other man's wife. It's stupid but i seem to happy to let things just cruise along as i try to make sense of all of this. I've read and read and understand i need to do this, i just can't seem to get the courage and i don't know why.I also don't seem to be feeling any anger(when does that come in). I feel exhausted, drained and very unloved.Can plan A really work? She seems intent on divorce. Don't be to hard on me i've had my fill of criticism. BS(me)42 WW 41 Ds 15 & 10 Dday1 1st Oct 06 false recovery Dday2 1st June 07 Married sept 89 Met sept 84 Affair ongoing

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905329 07/07/07 12:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 86 england E englander Member
englander Member E Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 86 england	you know i understand where your at ,sit down think of what to say . and most of all be prepared for the anger ,even i was surprised and i prepared myself for two days ,throwing stuff at me all the talk ... thats it now youve really gone and done it ! its over now etc etc etc , believe me it dosent last very long . expose to everyone at the same time i did !! read my post exposure with a twist , things really move along aftewards .you will wish you had done it earlier ... good luck and just go for it !! they suffer the consequences of there actions ,without this they carry on the secret affair . in the open its a lot different

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905330 07/07/07 03:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 934 P Plank Member
Plank Member P Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 934	Ukbetrayed89, I wish there was a positive forecast for NOT exposing your W’s A to the OM’s betrayed Wife, but there isn’t. Oh sure, the A will likely die a natural death, albeit a painfully slow one. Following the path of no exposure is fraught with many more pitfalls and stumbling blocks than swift, precise, exposure is. I don’t have any statistics to back up my observations, but it seems to me that a whole lot less people are successful without exposure than with exposure. It is my opinion that exposure is actually merciful. You prevent the infidels from wasting their lives, day by day, in a hoax of a relationship. You assist them both in reclaiming their dignity and putting down the crack pipe of love. Following the MB plan REQUIRES exposure. Start moving your body to build your spirit up (exercise) and see a Dr. about the possibility of getting on some anti-depressants. That may help to get your mind focused on the import of exposure and the courage to follow through with it. Just be sure that you understand the mechanics of exposure and the proper methods to employ when you do it. Be darn sure that you are practicing on your reverse babble talk too as you are going to get a good workout during the shock of it all when your WW is trying keep getting her fix and her brain is stammering from the potential loss of her A high. So get your sh*t together and expose TOMORROW. There is never a “good time” for it. Remember if you choose to fight for your M, then you are waging WAR with the infidels relationship. There is no middle ground. Plank. My "Feelings on Honesty", My "Reasons why:", The Affair World Without MB we knew just enough about M to be danjrus.

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905331 07/07/07 06:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 17,837 O Orchid Member
Orchid Member O Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 17,837	R U happy or complacent? Is conflict avoidance an issue with you? Just asking because it will help to know to help you. thanks, L.

Re: why can't i Orchid #1905332 07/08/07 07:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15 E eggchaser OP Junior Member
OP eggchaser Junior Member E Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15	Thanks for the input.For info, I'm on anti depressants and they really have helped. I,m not happy about the situation it just seems that i hate conflict, I'll avoid it at all costs. I never win arguments with my wife anyway, she's just better at it than me.I have decided to expose to his wife and all and sundry.This is going to be a right storm. I really hope this works. BS(me)42 WW 41 Ds 15 & 10 Dday1 1st Oct 06 false recovery Dday2 1st June 07 Married sept 89 Met sept 84 Affair ongoing

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905333 07/08/07 07:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,082 J JinGA Member
JinGA Member J Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,082	Good luck, UKB... it's not going to be an easy task, but I would think once it's done it might be a weight off your shoulders. And when OMW knows, you will have an ally in ending the affair. In loving support, JinGA F/40, DD15 DS13 M 1989 DDay his EA May 1998. S Aug 2004. D Dec 05. I filed. 4/07 Post-D Plan A with 180, with hopes of R. 6/23/07 XH said no to R. 8/24/07 Went on a date with someone new, "B". 1/22/08 Still seeing B, life is good! Learning and growing each day. Ask me about Geocaching!

Re: why can't i JinGA #1905334 07/08/07 07:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom B Bob_Pure Member
Bob_Pure Member B Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom	UKB I remember to this day the very second OM GF's heart broke when I called her. When the call ended I puked in the bushes outside tesco, where I'd called from. Within 5 minutes OM had called Squid and told her and Squid was threatening me with divorce. I felt dreadful, like it was a mistake to expose.... Yet...OM was dodging righteously thrown crockery, and I KNEW I;d done a righteous thing. Almost imperceptibly I felt the remote control in my life pass back into my hand from Squid and OMs. Do it. MB Alumni

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905335 07/09/07 02:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 981 K kdsheartbreak Member
kdsheartbreak Member K Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 981	Quote Help me folks. I am completely stuck. I don't seem to be able to expose my wifes ongoing affair to the other man's wife. It's stupid but i seem to happy to let things just cruise along as i try to make sense of all of this. I've read and read and understand i need to do this, i just can't seem to get the courage and i don't know why.I also don't seem to be feeling any anger(when does that come in). I feel exhausted, drained and very unloved.Can plan A really work? She seems intent on divorce. Don't be to hard on me i've had my fill of criticism. Dear Newly betrayed spouse, I have been in your shoes before, I understand the desire to not take risks, especially contacting the omw, but in reality by refusing to tell the omw about the affair you have created a ticking time bomb which may or may not go off in the future. Right now you are not thinking with a clear head. Your body and mind is in shock and still trying to absorb the cruel reality your spouse has laid upon you. That is probably why you don't feel anger right now. Anger will eventually come. Take back your power.... Expose to the omw. When you do this, you will have one more person to put pressure on the two infidels and keep appraised of the affair. It is not used to get even, it is a tool to help end the affair... Your marriage does not stand a chance if the two infidels are continuing to carry on the affair. Your marriage can survive your ws's anger, it can't survive an ongoing affair. I did not expose to the owh, and I regret that. Like you, I was trying to play it safe, and not anger my ws..... If I had exposed, I would have had the peace of mind, that comes with being able to monitor the affair from both sides. Instead I monitored my husband's involvement by his actions, tones, and intuition. It worked for me, but it was a gamble I shouldn't have taken. I left the owh unprotected and in the dark. He did not deserve this. Listen to the others, especially BobPure. k.d.'s heartbreak In the end, I have nothing to lose but everything to gain, by trying to save my marriage. Me, betrayed wife 46 Former Wandering Husband, 51 E/A 2005 28 years of marriage DD 26, DS 24 O/W aka, Rat 29, A-D Assisted Living Discovery 8-20-05 Recovery ongoing.

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905336 07/09/07 06:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,906 A ark^^ Member
ark^^ Member A Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,906	I really hope this works What is it exactly you hope works.... Sometimes if you change your persective about something...it becomes a totally different entity.... in exposing to the other mans wife...you give to her some of the greatest gifts... you will give her the power of knowledge you will give the right to make informed decisions... these two things are the key elements of the greatest terroristic assaults of an affair... lack of knowledge lack of ability to make decisions about ones life....especially on potentially truly life altering issues...ie sexually transmitted diseases.... it is here from where you base your defense... and in truth your defense comes in very very little words... my dear wife...she had the RIGHT to know..... my dear dear wife ...she deserved the RIGHT to know... that is your "arguement" that is your mantra there is no point in powerstruggling it...argueing..or discussing it... the wife has the RIGHT to know... period..... see how different exposure can look.. ARK

Re: why can't i ark^^ #1905337 07/09/07 08:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15 E eggchaser OP Junior Member
OP eggchaser Junior Member E Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15	Thank you guys for your input.I take some comfort in knowing its not just me that is struggling with exposure and i now know its the right thing to do.I'm due to have a holiday with my wife and kids this week. I have decided to expose after that. My decision, not cowardice. I don't want my kids holiday ruined. I will try to be the best dad i can and try to stop wallowing in self pity. Plan A v accepting the affair is hard to fathom. Should i move to the spare room? when she offers a hug or comforting hand should i take it. Is refusal a major love buster. I don't want to give any indication that what she is doing is ok but i don't want to miss any signs of reconciliation either.So hard to know. BS(me)42 WW 41 Ds 15 & 10 Dday1 1st Oct 06 false recovery Dday2 1st June 07 Married sept 89 Met sept 84 Affair ongoing

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905338 07/09/07 10:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 981 K kdsheartbreak Member
kdsheartbreak Member K Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 981	In your place, I would still extend affection to my ws if she will let me. On the other hand, I would not have sex with her if the affair was still ongoing, and I hadn't been tested for STD's. Plan A is to attract your wife, and showing affection is part of that. Don't move to the other room. Break up the affair. Remember, don't share your exposure plan with the ws. Exposure needs to be preplanned in advance, and carried out in one continuous motion so it will not give your ws that chance to put a spin on her affair to others.... example: "My spouse is having a nervous breakdown and is paranoid. She has been accusing me of having an affair and I am afraid she is going to tell others that too." Given warning of exposure, the infidels can find all kinds of ways to make you look like you are unhinged. Take care, kd.'s heartbreak In the end, I have nothing to lose but everything to gain, by trying to save my marriage. Me, betrayed wife 46 Former Wandering Husband, 51 E/A 2005 28 years of marriage DD 26, DS 24 O/W aka, Rat 29, A-D Assisted Living Discovery 8-20-05 Recovery ongoing.

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905339 07/10/07 07:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,906 A ark^^ Member
ark^^ Member A Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,906	dear UK... your house is on fire...and you are gathering the family in the living room to play monopoly one more time.... FIRST your OM's wife....has been in your home in agony begging for the truth that your wife is the one that her husband is having an affair.... and you all convince her it's not so... and even when you know for a fact... you still don't set this poor women free.... SECOND your wife insists that she has no intention NOT talking with other man...ie seeing other man.... and your answer is to not say anything because it will upset some family plans.... (last time you didn't say anything cause it might upset one of the children's exams) the excuses are endless... and in you doing nothing your house continues to burn... you need to with all due respect...AND because I believe whole heartedly that you have to throw the stone to get the pool ripple..... MAN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for the sake of the children who need atleast ONE grown up in the house being a GROWN UP you need to know that interrupting disrupting your 'family vacation" is of no concern when your wife engages in activities that directly put your children at great risk for great heart pain...emotional chaos....and at risk for becoming children of divorce and forced to play house with a new 'daddy' Infact the time to strike is now... your actions and decisions of doing nothing.... are in reality condoning and acceptance of her affair behaviors... your fears have you exactly where she and he the OM want you.... paralyzed..... and the only way to change this is to make moves that stand up for your family.... let me say that if I were to engage in activities...that put my children at any type of risk...my husband would strike swiftly and accurately...of this I am sure...for I know him well.... this not to say he would not be a loving man...for his actions of protection in fact are of the greatest acts of love in the long run... seek legal counsel today about seeking full custody...that she is free to go off on her fantasy...but she will not and can not take the children with her... what is her means of contact with the OM... cell phone... get rid of them..... computer... install a key logger.... please read bob'pures toolkit for beginners... please read his story... he mannedup to for his children in the face of a blatant affair... and in those actions he earned the respect and proof of his honor in doing the right thing even in the face of his greatest fear... losing his wife and children's mother to another man.... and now has recovered and according to his wife... because of his actions..... marriage builders is not about conflict avoiding...it is full of actions that bring conflict...without a doubt but it is better than being so afraid of losing a wife that one rolls over belly up,.....and seeks the status quo... You speak of missing signs of recovery... my friend in true recovery there is no doubt ... in full recovery there is FULL disclosre from the WS there are actions of rebuilding trust there is accountability... there is no guessing there is no wondering... you need to man-up for the children or you will have a lovely vacation week...only to find yourself divorced next month..wondering how it happened.... marriagebuilders works best for those who acknowledge that this marriage may not be salvaged or salvagable... that the fight is best fought realizing that the winning may not be want we expected...but without regret... I can not coddle you on this... your fear is your worst enemy... confront her take the children on holiday ALONE without her...that's what my husband would do...the message would be loud and clear... seek legal counsel relieve that other mans wife of the burdon TODAY in fact how cruel of your wife and the OM to go to such extremes to convince her it's not your wife...that the poor woman actually calls you on the phone to APOLOGIZE for even thinking it could be your wife... the gaslighting of this woman is despicable.... your wife sees you doing nothing... and in some ways your inactivity sends a message that the marriage is NOT worth fighting or saving... her OM is a piece of work..his ability to enact such harm on his WIFE....is an example of his true capability.... the time is at hand as far as I am concerned.... your children deserve someone to fight the good fight... your wife won't do it...she just wants to have contact... ARK^^

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905340 07/10/07 08:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom B Bob_Pure Member
Bob_Pure Member B Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom	I know how you feel UKB, honestly. But Ark is as right now kicking your [censored] as she was when she kicked mine almost three years to the day. Hurts doesn't it ? I never knew a hurt like it. But the pain won't go away until you remove the source of it. You must pull the arrow. Lance the abscess. Leaving to the spare room and running away will honestly make it harder to stop the madness, not easier. Being rolled along by the flow of events that are controlled by the waywards is NOT the best thing for you kids or yourself. I know this to be true. Its dreadful, enfeebling, destroying UKB. You can do any one of three things in response: 1. Continue to tolerate your wifes evil affair while choking down your pain in fear like MIKE did ( click here) . His example is a cautionary tale as to what can happen if you don't take a stand. Mike "hoped" his W would see the light too. It was not good for his marrige or his family. fearful Caution is not your friend right now. I KNOW this. 2. Divorce your WW while you are angry and in pain and not thinking straight. Even God (He cares for you at this time, even if you don't care for Him) allows it for adultery HE understands how uniquely painful it is for us. But divorce doesn't remove pain. The issues still need to be worked. 3. Be a MAN and set the benchmark for righteousness and high-mindedness in a f'ked up situation. Be a hero to draw the sting from everyone affected's lives so decisions can be made while NOT in existential pain. UKB your wife has never needed you to be a MAN as much as she does right now. She is incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone, not you, God or OM. Its your job to reestablish calm and a fertile environment for discussion. No-one else is capable of so doing. I know exactly how you feel that everything is scary, and you can't change the situation but that is your emotional response, not fact. You owe it to your kids, yourself, your wife and the vow you made before God to be strong and calm - a beacon of light and hope in a terrible situation. Seperate rooms is NOT the best thing for you - Harley says that - but you must make lemonade out of lemons. Only then, once passions have subsided and calmness prevails can any of you make sensible decisions about your futures. Whatever either of you decides permanently while hurting now will be regretted in future I guarantee it. I have learned, and I truly believe that there is no higher state of grace for a man than to be what his family needs in troubled times, particularly when he doesn't feel capable of so being. Be a knight not a serf. Take control of yourself and spread your calm through all your lives. Be restrained and objectived. In that way you can be proud even if you DON'T make recovery. Stop the (understandable) self pity and step up to the plate. Your wife needs you to save her from herself. Are you up to the challenge UKB ? I'm just a bloke and I managed to do this against all the indicators. And I have never been prouder of anything I've ever done in my life. Understand that NOTHING YOU CAN DO can make you lose your wife any more than she is already lost to you. Study MB. Address your issues. Love your wife while understanding the dynamics affecting her behaviour and thought processes right now. You wil be amazed how much more positive you will feel when you are taking affirmative, brave action against your troubles. And it starts now with being the husband your wife doesn't currently deserve and the father your kids DO deserve. And that means a SH1T load more than giving them a"don't mention-the-war" holiday. Your calm and decency will shine like a beacon against the chaos of your WWs actions, and it WILL make an impression on the good woman that is captive beneath all her fog. Hunker down for the long run but DEAR GOD it WILL be worth it. My life is transformed now - genuinely happy from a situation where that seemed impossible. But you have to calm down against your every instinct and act up. Stop the passive meekness. You're entitled to it but as Dr. Phil would say "how's THAT workin' out for ya?" Read ALL the articles on this site. Buy "Surviving an affair". Sit at the feet of Mel, Ark, WAT, Just Learning ,Pep and the other battle scarred but proud warriors who have pulled SO MANY of us from the firestorm over the years. And have faith that you can do this. Then start to identify people in OMs life that might apply a moral pressure on him if they knew of his affair. His W MUST know. Also have you exposed to your wifes' wider family and friends yet ? Exposure is a very effective tool. I shared your fears about exposure making things worse, but how ON EARTH can this get worse ? Even if it happens, your WW moving out is only a nett loss to you if you value the corrupt , toxic sham of a marriage you have right now over a dignified independence. I don't stop by here too often but If I can help you can find me. I leave you with my question : "What would you do if you were not afraid ?" MB Alumni

Re: why can't i Bob_Pure #1905341 07/11/07 04:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15 E eggchaser OP Junior Member
OP eggchaser Junior Member E Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15	wow!! When i used to play rugby i sometimes needed an inspirational speech to get me roused.Well Ark and Bob did the trick. Got straight in the car, went round to OMW's house, not in. Went round to her business, away on holiday until Monday. Can you believe it. I finally pick myself off the floor(where I've been curled up for 8 months now) and the womans on hols!! Somebody really got it in for me atm. Its strange though cos I'm smiling as i write this.What's that all about? I read the story of Mike, so sad,stopped smiling then. I only felt like ending it for one split second(looked over a cliff, only to think that the fall would probably hurt a lot.) I intend to keep reading these two posts to fire me up.I WILL expose to his wife( she and I deserve better)The mobile ain't coming on holiday either.Time to stand tall i think. BS(me)42 WW 41 Ds 15 & 10 Dday1 1st Oct 06 false recovery Dday2 1st June 07 Married sept 89 Met sept 84 Affair ongoing

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905342 07/11/07 04:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom B Bob_Pure Member
Bob_Pure Member B Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom	GOOD FOR YOU !! Affair crap is only deep enough to drown you if you cringe in it. Make sure you hold that thought of dignity and being the dad your kids need. PS A fellow eggchaser Hah ! I was a hooker and a open side flanker till I got too old and soft.;) MB Alumni

Re: why can't i Bob_Pure #1905343 07/12/07 12:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15 E eggchaser OP Junior Member
OP eggchaser Junior Member E Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 15	Update. By trying to find omw, it looks like i tipped him off.(Receptionist told him i was looking for her) He will tell his wife this weekend whilst i'm away. Wife has found the website(load of weirdo's and godbotherers). so nothing seems to be going to plan.Went had a STD test today, told the wife, major arguement (Why didn't i trust her when she said they'd used condoms)Lots of emotion from my side. I don't love you, it won't work, get over it, you'll find someone else, i don't want to work at our marriage from her.That hurts a lot.She now wants to tell the kids next week after the hols. Then she says maybe i should consider moving out!!!I need to sleep. BS(me)42 WW 41 Ds 15 & 10 Dday1 1st Oct 06 false recovery Dday2 1st June 07 Married sept 89 Met sept 84 Affair ongoing

Re: why can't i eggchaser #1905344 07/12/07 01:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom B Bob_Pure Member
Bob_Pure Member B Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom	He won't tell his wife. He will try to spoil your exposure. STD test offends WS because they believe their true love is cleaner than daz. She doesn;t want to work on your marriage now - almost no active WS do. Do not move out under any circumstances. Protect your finances RIGHT NOW and be the MAN in this situation. If you think your W is following your story here, email me. My addy is in my profile. Don't feel weak. How did you think your W would react to your manning up ? Its going to work !!! MB Alumni

Re: why can't i Bob_Pure #1905345 07/12/07 01:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom B Bob_Pure Member
Bob_Pure Member B Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,107 England,United Kingdom	You need to apply loving detachment to this mess. Ask bulltproof_M who recently masterd this for credits. It WORKS, helps you be fuctional in the face of all he[i][/i]ll from WS. Quote I was working out a situation with a friend the other day and it occurred to me FINALLY how to describe "loving detachment" in a practically applicable way. In my own affair-battle, and in plan A , loving detachment was without doubt the technique that helped the most to get through the very bad times. It allowed me breathing space to be rational when faced with irrationality. I have advised for panicking folks in the heat of this fight to "detach" but I always struggled to INSTRUCT them how to do it. Well, a day late and a dollar short, but here goes - in case it helps anyone: However vicious or entitled a persons actions may be towards us, and however dark a situation may appear, it is a stark realisation that it is OURSELVES who render events with the power to frighten or hurt outselves. Some folks who tried to adopt loving detachment tried to IGNORE evil purpetrated in their lives and respond with a false rictus smile to the person who is hurting them. That is not what loving detachment is for me and I chide myself for not being able to explain sooner. Loving detachment was a way I found to strip away the scariness I attributed to events and look only at the core elements of these events. I'll start with a non infidelity example : A banana skin skids to a halt at your feet, when you are rushing and feeling low, and you barely miss slipping on it. Things you might think while in an emotional state: "I could have slipped on that ! GOD I might have broken my neck ! I Bet my spouse threw that there to kill me for my insurance ? What if there are more banana skins ? OH NO, I have to LIVE in a workd of banana skins for ever boo hoo hoo !" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> What loving detachment thinks : "A banana skin. I need to step around that so I don't slip. Stay vigilant in case of further banana skins as I can only control my OWN placement of banana skins, not other people's." See ? It doesn't matter if a person tried to sabotage you with that banana skin,OR if it was dropped accidentally by a passing flying monkey, the core challenge, and correct response is identical once you strip away all the layers of portent you ascribe to an event. When Squid would attend karate competitions that I suspcted OM may be at, against my direct request a wellsping of panic and fear surged within me. " She'll be kissing him ! Maybe they're not even at a karate event! Perhaps they've left to elope !" Then I shouted "Stop! DetAch! " to myself. Facts : 1. Squid went to referee a weekend competition against my request less than a month after d-day. The only thing I know for sure is she won't be home over Saturday night. 2. Even if she IS PA'ing with OM, it does not change our situation.I Expect her to be wayward at this time. I am not "more cuckolded" by this ,if so. 3. I know there IS a competition at the time / place she says and that she is sharing a room with a trustworthy mutual friend. 4. How can I affect this in future ? Well, exposing to OM GF may apply a compulsion to OM not to attend these events. I should expose. 5. The weekend without soaking up Squids poison gives me a respite ! I will take the kids to a childrens' farm ! Loving detachment is DELIBERATELY stripping away portent from events and facts to allow calm rationalisation as to whether you can affect a situation positively or not. It is not ignoring, it is not soaking up, it is not tolerating. It is revealing and dealing with the FACTS as practially as possible. Another real example : Event : Squid is highly entitled and is bullying me in her affair pomp, in the second whole week after NC established. She is making no effort to be transparent nor to work on our marriage. Highly dismissive, vituperative. I am terrified, the kids are being hurt. WHOAH Bob !!! LOVING DETACHMENT MODE PLEASE : What would I do if I were not afraid ? - I'd tell Squid that I would rather live without her than WITH her this mean and disrespectful What am I afraid of ? - That this is the best Squid can ever give me and that she would leave if I enforced a boundary requiring more SO this is a dignity issue. Best case is that I get my baby AND my dignity. Whats the best compromise ? - That I keep my dignity and lose my baby. So, loving detachment, what are the FACTS to consider ? 1. She could leave ANY time she wanted with or without my protecting my dignity 2. If she left as a result of having to respect minimum boundaries, I am only worse off if I value that toxic corruption of a marriage more than my own dignity. 3. If she leaves I will be healthy,have the support of my employer and my kids and we will be fine, after a time of sadness. It is highly unlikely that we will be broken by this. 4. If she stays and respects my boundaries we may all just "win the lottery" !. Decision - restate my boundary to Squid. Lovng Detachment released me from the chains of fear. That night I asked Squid my famous question :" baby WHY are you here ? You said you would stay and work on our marriage - and I am struggling to see anything I would call "marriagebuilding" from you right now. I want you , very much, but I do not need you. Do not stay only because you think I will fall apart if you leave. I will not. The door on this marriage is open - you can leave any time, as can I. Just know that I will not tolerate perceived disrespect for long before I protect myself from it." Squid flipped a switch that night like so many WS do. Even when I make a bad decision using the facts loving detachment presented me, I could simply apply LD to the NEW situation and make a new decision in light of my experience. Does any of this make any sense ? I hope it helps. You can DO this, mate ! Your kids need a sane parent ! Teach them how to deal with undeserved crap with nobility ! RIGHT? MB Alumni

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