wtf are you people crazy or what? How in the world did you come up with this theory? I am simply flabergasted that from what I posted, you could somehow come up with theory???????????

OK, mimi, would you please set these good people straight????

How could these good people misconstrue all of this so badly?
Jerry

Yep. You aren't alone in those opinions.

(and generally, if ya say you aren't going to discuss something anymore, you stop posting. *grin*)

The problem with this for me is that I learn nothing from it..OH WELL...

I don't know what the PROBLEM is..or the ISSUE that remains...or the WAY that LEM has described..or what PEOPLE LIKE ME are like..

You certainly can't know me if you think that I am MEAN-SPIRITED or THOUGHTLESS so you must be confusing me with someone else..

Oh but it isn't MY INTENT..so I'm not REALLY mean-spirited and thoughtless in your perception...so what's the point in mentioning it..other than being mean-spirited and thoughtless... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

It doesn't really matter to me though what people think of me here..that's how I recall LEM was confused...

You can't REALLY know me...

Even my H, during our WORSE of times, always would say.."YOU'RE A GOOD PERSON, you don't deserve this..and that certainly is TRUE of me...I wouldn't hurt anybody ON PURPOSE.. and if someone feels like I am being MEAN to them I wish they would let me know so that I could apologize. No one else n HERE has said that to me as I recall, MEDC, except for you and I guess MOJO agrees...but it doesn't matter.

Like I keep saying I come here to HEAL and to help HEAL is all..not to win friends...

I certainly have no reason to be mean, to try to hurt, to slam people..to me that would be an indication of a need for me to go elsewhere...because TO BE HURT is the last thing anyone here needs...

It would be EVIL and SINFUL for a person to deliberately come here to do any of that...

Where have I used THESE WORDS in describing you? I may be wrong but I think you are confusing me with someone else.

I purposedly didn't get involved in the conflict between you and Mel.

MEDC

I have learned some commercial psychology tools for my job.
Part of this is that any message carries data in both the content and the delivery.

The data of many of your messages are clear IMO. In this case that you believe having sex with an A partner indicates a lack of character. That is an opinion, not offensive of itself imo.The offensive component was the undiplomatic and gleefully emotive words and delivery you (imo) used.

They indicated a cynical revulsion of that which you conveyed imo. "have a PA" would have less emotively described the scenario, i believe but would not have satisfied your desire to share the emotion of your feelings about the act of PA.

Jerry and myself know in horrible detail the acts our wives performed, and your emotive words briefly shed a new light on the old pain.

More tact and diplomacy would mean you ruffle many less feathers, MEDC, but I truly suspect that is part of what you enjoy on these boards.

My triggers are my responsibility, not yours, but a person who uses emotive words that are unlikely to provoke a positive or helpful response in the reader also surely has some responsibility ?

I have been guilty of using emotive delivery when describing my OWN situation, but I cannot recall doing so to make others feel as bad as I do about their situation.

In any case, this issue has made me reconsider my own delivery when posting. So its been useful for me perhaps.

I have also learned a fair amount of psych Bob...both formally and informally... and think your view above is hog wash.

My style is different than yours to be sure. Yours reached me when I first got here...but if I remember him correctly (as I have no link to the posts) I think it was someone named BryanP that also reached me... and he was harsh. It wasn't the fact that he enjoyed ruffling feathers... it was the fact that he was trying to help. And BTW, I remember a few posters telling him to clam up that he was being too harsh with me...yet, I remember responding that I appreciated his honest approach.

I will also tell you from an honest perspective that I question your motives regarding this right now. YOu got your feathers ruffled when I dared to discuss in less than glowing terms, some of the activities of the other board. In fact, I think you said I insulted everyone over there. I have been here for several years Bob and this, I believe, is the FIRST time I am hearing from you that my style offends you. The timing is questionable to me. You had access to me over there and here... and yet, I never heard a word from you until I made the comments about the other board. I don't believe for a moment that a man with your advanced sensitivities (genuinely advanced IMO) really thinks that my description of the sex act was done in a more provocative way than has been done countless numbers of times here by members of your own board. The vulgar way that others describe the act (which, btw, also does not offend me personally) is much more offensive than the clinical words I used. It just happens that along with this description, I also leveled what some considered to be criticism of MB and the other board.
That is my take on things.

MEDC

MEDC,
If I was offensive to you or others yesterday, please accept this as my apology.

There is no way your words, or any others, should be triggering me after 5 years since DDay. So you and others who have said so, are 100% right. I should learn to keep my trap shut and deal with my own wounds and learn to move on.

Sorry I went into attack mode. I thought today, that my rantings, may have even triggered others.
Nice job Jerry!!!!

Keep up the good work in helping others, you are a valuable resorce here.

With apolgies,
Jerry

Just expressing my own opinion on the differing phrases, and nothing more implied or intended.

"Rutting like pigs" makes me think of pigs. Picturing the OW, and even then-WH as pigs somehow gives me a sense of power. Rightly or wrongly, it just does.

The other phrase seems much more personal, and still painful. But I am much better now than before, at setting it aside speedily. (And re-assuming a stance of power.)

Not a clue why it is that way for me, but it is.

Friends,

Honestly I’m perplexed about the nature of the argument here over illustrating wayward sex.

You all have good points IMO.

Of course I have to give my two cents worth here or I can’t sleep tonight.

When the BS enters into the realm of adultery they are already shell shocked and traumatized. I don’t think that is disputable.

At that time in the timeline of personal well being it’s more than likely not good for them to hear anything else that is damaging to themselves or slights the perceived quality of their WS. That is if they truly want to recover their M.

But sometime between that point and the point where they are embracing the grueling task of recovering their M; they need to have their head shoved into the rectum of reality.

It is my opinion that they NEED to completely digest the all encompassing magnitude of what exactly transpired between their S and the OP.

If this does not occur at that pivotal point then what you have later on is a wishy washy FBS that climbs up and down the fence of non commitment. You get love/hate from the BS.

So, I believe that it’s good to deliver reality to the ears of the ignorant. But this should be done with some balanced compassion.

One point that I find of interest is that the people that have applied MB’s plan and prevailed with their family intact are far less likely to diminish the returns of their labor by casting negative light on the WS.

Why you ask? Good question. It’s because they have said YES to the arrangement.

They have purchased the car that has a few dings on the door panels, but it’s still a good car.

The people that come out on the other side of the equation likely maximize their personal feelings of victory by validating their thoughts with negative reinforcement of their former mate.

If anyone sees a different dynamic than that, I’d love to hear about it, but it seems to summarize exactly what I see here and in my real life outside of MB cyber world.

We all know that our FWS’s were lying, cheating, thieving, despicable human beings DURING the time of their A.

But I challenge that this is not the person that they are in sum total all the time!

People are not defined by one action. They are the balance of their entire life’s story. If there are a few bad chapters in there then sh*t just happens. There can still be a happy ending to the story.

I think that it’s important not to lose scope here. This is all about keeping mothers with sons and daughters, fathers with their children, and men and women together that have made a promise to each other and God to stay together till death do you part.

I’ve used the phrase “rutting like pigs” before and I must say that I think it’s a charming catch phrase for describing self indulgent sexual activity between adulterers. If anyone doesn’t like me for it, then hit the ignore button. But you’ll be sorry because I’m a funny man and you will miss my attempts at humor!

Please excuse the ramblings…

Going back under the rock.

Jerry, Plank, Bob, Mimi, Neak, et al....

I learn from every one of you. I NEVER try and hurt any of you...I don't always hit my mark and when I do not, I will be man enough to say I am sorry... please know that when I apologize, it is always genuine.

Jerry, no worries from me...apology accepted... and I am truly sorry that my words pushed a button in you. Hopefully it will somehow be a catalyst to deal with those unlying emotions that cause such a trigger response.

Plank... my friend..as always I appreciate your insight and humor. I agree with your post 100% and always have felt that people have the ability to redeem themselves no matter where they are in life today.

MEDC, I did not think at all that you were trying to hurt anyone. I thought you were being frank, and yes a bit too frank, but I know you don't pull punches, either.

I am willing to accept without question that to you, your phrase was less offensive than the "RLP" phrase. Though I wanted to express a differing viewpoint, I was not trying to make you feel bad, either.

Don't take this as an attempt to bring up the subject of your state of singleness, because it's not. But I can't help but wonder if that status makes a different in perception of the phrase. After all, I still have the same penis around that did those nasty things, so maybe that colors my perspective. At the same time, for you, Believer, and others who do not still live with the perpetrator of their misery, that may color your perspective.

It doesn't make either group better, only different, IMO. And although I am sorry Jerry was wounded as he was, I think this was a good discussion to have had.

And Jerry, I do not think that you were off base for having a reaction. Yes, your pain decreases with time, as does its ability to sting you, but no amount of time can change that what your wife did was horrible and disgusting, ditto my husband.

It is only normal and natural that you should recoil from such a reminder of what she did, but how you deal with it is important, too. For Bob to look over at his sweet and happy little wifey, to remind himself of how blessed he is, is an ideal outcome for this.

You don't want to dwell in the past, but you don't want to forget it entirely either, or you will not properly appreciate what you have today.

Neak...it is possible that I would view those words differently if still married. I really don't know.
I can say that things being brought back to a clinical way of thinking or speaking to me..in general...make them less offensive.
It also could just be a habit that comes from having been a cop. That is the way we wrote reports and testified...but more to the point, that is most often how we SAW things... it makes things easier to accept when they are clinical.
The first time I witnessed an autopsy, I needed to make it clinical....otherwise it was too upsetting.
YOu may very well have a point with this logic though.

And Neak... I will NEVER forget what happened to me... I have the scars to show for it. I just get the joy of being in a different place right now and choosing to look at the positives that came out of it.

Thanks for the reply.

MEDC

MEDC yes my commercial psychology degree and a decade of daily application of it is clearly hogwash.

Your opinion of me and / or my motives is none of my business.

I'm not sure that is true.

MEDC, it is possible I would view those words differently if NOT married, lol. As a writer, I like to flatter myself that I can intuit the feelings of someone in a certain position, outside my own experience, but I am never quite sure if I've got it right. So I'm not sure if my guess is correct, it is just my best intuit-ing.

I have a bit of experience in the EMS, as well, plus years of typing formal reports for AJ (who is a very painstaking typist), in his school PD position, and also as an executive protection agent for Homeland Security. Both required pretty much the same "clinical" approach that I had already learned so well.

Which is why I would venture to guess that the difference in our reactions is not clinical vs. non-clinical. What it is instead, I am not sure. (Unless I end up being the only one from a clinicalish background who feels the way I do, in which case I am willing to accept being an abberration.)

I also would not presume to think that you, or any other BS who is not in a recovered marriage, does not still have scars, or that those scars are not of equal validity to those in a R'd M. I do think that the healing process is different in some ways, and would be very interested in seeing that explored.

Choosing to find joy in the place you're in would be one of the similarities, for sure. Once any person has been through an extreme trauma like this, joy is a choice forever after. For all of us, we COULD choose to stay mired in our pain, but we DO choose to move on, and we DO choose to be joyful.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I guess for the record, I should add a little more info. I was obsessing a bit because of the 5 year aniniversity date of DDay. I was also, once again, in outbreak . Yep, infidelity, the gift that keeps on giving!

My dday occured in my family physicians office, not from some guilt ridden confession from my W.

Put those facts together, with MEDC's graphic post and what you end up with is Jerry in meltdown mode!

Again, I apologise, it will not happen again(I hope and pray).

At some point down the road, these things will not sting me anymore, in the meantime, I cope and pray for more. My FWW has returned to normal mode and there are times I just need to catch up.

All Blessings,
Jerry

{{{Jerry

I gotta admit folks, I am not really sure what all the fuss is about.

The more things change here, the more things stay the same.

Uyyyyy Veyyyyy.

LM

P.S.Jerry, you are the man. Keep up the STD fight here. You and Believer are the one's keeping this alive. Don't let that important point die.

I didn't know Plank was funny.

Who?