My WW had a question for me recently that I am at a loss to answer.

She has been reading His Needs, Her Needs and understands the concepts of ENs, Love Bank, etc. So she says, "How do I get over OM after NC if my Love Bank for him is high, and nothing has been done or will be done to reduce the balance?"

I understand I need to meet her ENs and build up the Love Bank she has for me in her, but I am curious what other FWWs have to say on this or how they dealt with this.

Thank you.

Ah yes. It's a wonderful truth for a BS that one. This is why NC for life is so important.

I believe those feelings do get pushed back into the background but with contact the affair can re-ignite especially in a weak moment.

Sucks I know.

And many FWS's will chime in and tell you they feel nothing but they are still at risk to that person if the affair has not run it's course and petered out by d-day.

My wife would say she is indifferent to OM and hostile because of his continuing interference in a part of our lives. But she is still vulnerable to him. I trust that what Dr Harley says about this is correct regardless of my very FWW's current feelings.

Hopefully, once the fog starts to clear, the guilt and shame kick in and the OP is associated with that feeling and not whatever warm fuzzies are left over.

RIL,

As already mentioned this is why NC for life is really important. But the answer is more complex than that. Consider her love bank just like money left in checking at the bank. Gradually, fees start to eat up the amount. It is not large at first but as time goes on those fees start to erode the amount in the bank.

Further, consider youself as another bank. You offer better rates, more security, and lower fees. Eventually, she can move the amount in the other bank over to yours.

How do you convince her to do this, you advertise or in the parlance of MB, you make deposits in her love bank. Gradually, your value will make her risking cashing in on the other love bank seem to be a poor choice.

Time and patience is what is required and that is why recovery is much harder than people think, and why Harley recommends plan B before the love runs out in your bank. Because it will take all of the love and patience you have over a long time to recover this marriage.

It is great that you two are reading Harley's book. And it is great that she asked you that question. She still has strong feelings and will go through withdrawal. I notice this was a long term affair. Expect recovery to take the full two years or even more. It won't be a bad as it is now, but it will take a long time.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I your W on board with attempting to really recover. If so, make sure you two read Surviving an Affair by Harley and understand the issues of with drawal.

Actually JL, HNHN makes the point the original poster did that LB balances do not evaporate. There is no bank switching I have ever read about. The OP has it right. It's straight out of HNHN.

BK,

They do go away or there would be far fewer recoveries. However, the problem the BS has is that he/she doesn't know, and frankly often the WS doesn't know, hence Harley's strong recommendation of NC forever.

I think if you ask Mrs W for example or KiwiJ or many others, the OM's bank is either flat broke or very very low now, and clearly it was much higher earlier. I know for a fact the KiwiJ's was when she came here.

As for the bank switching it is an analogy to suggest that has he becomes more attractive to his W, she will eventually start to make deposits in HIS LB, which actually means he will be more able to efficiently deposit in hers although he should be doing so now as well.

JL

Hope you all don't mind my voicing an opinion here, as I'm a newbie. The Love Bank metaphor is great for His Needs/Her Needs in a marriage ... but the Addiction model is pretty effective for explaining what happens here.

When it comes to affairs, think of behaviorists, like BF Skinner, and his rats and pigeons -- REALLY.

Here's the thing: When you're trying to build up a behavior, you offer positive reinforcement -- goodies -- every time that behavior appears. That's what happens with affairs. People feel good when they have certain encounters with the non-spouse -- deposits in the Non-FDIC-Insured Bank of Affairs. But there you have it. These great feelings are constantly reinforced. That's why non-communication at the end of the affair is so important.

BF Skinner (the rats and pigeons psychologist) discovered something fascinating (from a behaviorist point of view) -- the more INCONSISTENTLY a behavior is reinforced, the STRONGER it grows.

This is absolutely the case with affairs, because they have to remain secretive. The feel-good positive reinforcement that lovers desire from affairs HAS to occur intermittently and inconsistently, because let's face it -- people in affairs have really inconsistent access to each other. That's why they're affairs!

Now ... suppose you want to completely EXTINGUISH a behavior ... your choices are to PUNISH the behavior (we've all been punished) with something BAD happening. In an affair, the spouse finds out, your boss finds out, his/her spouse finds out, the Los Angeles Times decides to out the mayor, whatever. Punishment can extinguish a behavior ... partly ... and PART of the time.

But since many of you have raised infants to toddlers to children you know that's only part of the story!

Behaviors reappear! BF Skinner says that it's hard to completely extinguish a behavior ... especially if the reinforcent happens to reappear. With affairs, the lover / other person is the reinforcement, and interestingly (or horrifically, depending on your point of view).

So ... it is actually WORSE for someone who has ended an affair to see their lover/OP only INTERMITTENTLY than NEVER. A wandering spouse is likelier to wind up with a STRONGER attachment, having seen an "other person" OCCASIONALLY or INTERMITTENTLY than if they had NEVER seen them after the affair, at all (and this goes for phone contact, email, and everything else.

What will happen is, ther "other person" will gradually fade from RILww's wife's mind (very very very gradually) and she will prefer her husband (if he really works at it) ... providing she is able to maintain absolutely no contact with the other guy.

But one contact could possibly blow the whole thing.

And if you don't believe me, ask BF Skinner.

Actually, BF Skinner is dead, but he was a fabulous researcher and theoretical behaviorist, a witty man, and I'm sure he's right on this.

Our MC drew two horizontal tables.

The first table was OM. Lbank right at the top.

The second table was H. Lbank at zero.

She told my H that he had to fill his table so that OM's LB went to zero.

That's how it works. She also told him that with my NC with OM, he could no longer fill his LB and it was up to my H to meet the OM's LB and overtake it.

It worked.

Nevertheless Kiwi, that is not what Harley says. Sorry.

JL - MrsW would actually agree with me. I am not making it up. You can read it in black and white in HNHN yourself. At the end where Harley specifically mentions affairs.

I sure do wish you were right. Jen had a celebrated fall proving Harley right.

I tend to agree with JL on this one.

If the LB from H or w was not so empty then very few spouses would have an affair. If the LB did not go down with your partner why would anyone even consider seeking your needs elsewhere??? The idea of a love bank is simply a way to explain somtimes complex behavioural concepts, interactions and deveopments. The Doc's a clever man to be able to do this.

RILww it takes time to build up the LB for either partner after an affair.
As long as there is no contact then there is a good chance for the LB to recover with your wife.
But yours has to grow eventually as well which will also take a lot of time.
Encourage her to ask questions if she is in doubt, maybe get the Harleys involved. Its a good sign she is questioning her own feelings & doubts.

AW - I totally agree with what you say. But we are talking about the LB balance for the OP after an affair, not rebuilding love for your spouse which is a totally different matter.

NC for life only makes sense in that context.

Now in my case, OM has done a consistently good job of making LB withdrawals with my wife over the last 2 years but she will be forever vulnerable to him, hence NC for life.

I totally "get" BS's not liking this - I'm not crazy about the concept myself.

RILww,

Bigkahuna is correct. Those feelings do get pushed back into the background (that’s why FWW’s will eventually reach a state of indifference toward the OP with continuous NC) but with contact the affair can indeed re-ignite and rekindle old feelings, especially in a weak moment. Therefore, even if a FWW has reached total indifference towards the OM and the A has becomes a horrible memory to them that will include strong negative & repugnant feelings associated with the OM and A, the FWW will still be at risk to that person if the affair has not run its course and petered out by d-day. It may seem very contrasting but it’s true and that’s why NC is so important. Addiction to OP is the same as addiction to alcohol/drugs in the sense that even strong negative feelings about the addiction and the substance of the addiction while in rational, sane mind can NOT guarantee that no resumption will take place if the rehabilitated alcoholic/drug user gets exposed to the substance again.

Therefore, as long as your W stays in NC with the OM, she will eventually reach a state of indifference towards him. She will also start to “assign” very negative feelings to OM when she gets out of withdrawal and start to work on personal and marital recovery with you when she will start to feel & realize the full impact & damage of her past actions and the pain it caused you, herself and the M. Although the “love bank” account for OM is still in there and will stay there, with time and focus on you and the M, she will be able to detach from her feelings for OM and assign it to "the past" where it belongs.

I want to share with you a post I send on this topic a while ago:

OK Suzet - We need to check the moon's phase....

only kidding.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

RILww,

I want to add something to my previous post.

Your W asked:

The following guidelines for FWS’s from my withdrawal thread (link in signature) will help her in this regard (print it out and give it to your W to read)

[color:"blue"] 1. Keep yourself busy, although you may not feel like doing anything[/b]. Getting busy will keep your mind from wandering to thoughts of OP. Spend as little time alone as possible. Go to the movies, a concert or a play, whatever you enjoy...as long as you gets busy! Post here, pray, call old friends you may have been neglecting or call current friends you spending too little time with.

2. Get involved with ministry/community service/charity or anything similar. Helping others will take your mind off yourself.

3. Go to your Medical Practitioner and/or Counselor and get antidepressants if necessary. Don’t hesitate to seek professional and medical help if you feel it's necessary.

4. Show love to your S, even when it feels a bit unnatural, fake or forced at first. The acts of love became more real and heartfelt the more they are repeated. When you actively show love and receive feedback from your S, it will become pleasurable to repeat those things. The more you do them, the more real they will become. And spend time with your mate. Do something different. Get out of the rut. Develop new interest. Have fun together. Work at becoming friends again.

5. Make a conscious effort to avoid things that will remind you positively of the OP. Whether it's romantic songs or movies that you enjoyed, hobbies or pastimes you had in common, or just dwelling mentally on conversations or times you enjoyed together...you must do your best to avoid dwelling on them. Thoughts of the OP will pop up and the temptation is to daydream about them at length but the good news is, as you AVOID CONTACT with the OP and having NO CONTACT, these things will fade. The OP itself will become more of a blurry memory. When these memories come up, do whatever you have to do to stop thinking about them. If the OP pops up in your mind, turn your thoughts to happy memories of times with your spouse. Pick up a book, watch a TV show, read the Bible, call a friend, just try hard not to dwell on them. Again, with this, you will find it easier to do as time passes and there is no contact.

6. Constantly remind yourself of the great things about your spouse, and the not-so-great things about the OP. Be honest with yourself. There are areas that you KNOW your spouse is superior to the OP. If you can't think of any, grab on to ANY positive thing you can think about in regards to your spouse. Think of the things that attracted you to your spouse initially, or that you've always liked or admired or respected about him/her and focus on that. Think on these things. Remind yourself of things about the OP that were definitely negative. Magnify them if you have to. Remind yourself that your spouse have it over the OP big time in a couple of major ways e.g:

i) Your spouse didn't indulge in an A with a married man/women.

ii) They love you enough to want to stay with you and stand by you, in spite of the pain you caused him/her.

The above two things alone show you the kind of love and integrity from your BS.

7. Remind yourself constantly that love is something you DO, not something you feel. Love is meeting someone's needs. Love is action. Feelings come and go...especially fantasy-based and fog-based feelings.

8. Develop a good & strong support system which can help & encourage you to maintain NC and stay committed to it. You can accomplish this by taking the following steps:

i) Be honest & open with your BS. Your S must become your greatest friend and confidant. Your S is the key and most important person who can help you to stay committed and maintain NC with OP.

ii) If you have close friends of the same sex who are trustworthy, religious and set a high importance on M and the well-being of both you and your S, then confided in them. The same goes with family members. On days you feel ‘down’, weak and/or vulnerable to contact OP, you can contact them in stead and go to them for support, go out for a cup of coffee with one of them or whatever.

iii) Seek professional help & support. Go to a trusting, outside person like a Christian counselor/therapist or pastor. Make sure the person you seek out is religious and values the importance of marriage in general and the importance of fidelity in a marriage.

8. Know that there is HOPE! There is definitely hope for your marriage and your feelings for the OP can fade. Keep trying, and don't beat yourself up when you have mental and emotional setbacks, because you will. Just look at the big picture and keep going. Realize that recovery is not necessarily about strength, but most importantly the choice and realization that NC is the only way to go. It’s also about the desire to regain your own integrity in spite of your weakness and temptation to contact the OP during withdrawal and early recovery.[/color]