Post deleted by Gruffles

You know what? If I were you, I would GET the money somehow. You should not trust her, that would be insane because you know she is untrustworthy. Letting her go out there alone at this, critical juncture in her WITHDRAWAL is the equivalent of opening up the bar to an alcoholic who is in WITHDRAWAL.

It was not a lack of trust that got you in this situation, but a lack of CARE. Pretending like you trust an untrustworthy spouse will not make her trustworthy, it will only afford her the opportunity to pursue her affair.

My suggestion to you is to go out there with her, but before you do, call the OM's wife and tell her about the affair. I would then have a discussion with her parents so they can keep their eyes peeled too.

You need to prevent this affair from going to the next level, Gruffles. And believe me, that is exactly where it is headed. The benefit of the doubt is not called for in this situation and you have way too much to lose to afford trust to an untrustworthy person.

And lastly, is your counselor PRO-MARRIAGE? MOST ARE NOT, and actually cause more harm than good. MC has the most DISMAL rate of success out of ALL counseling types. [17%]

Hi Gruffles-

I read your post in the Emotional Needs section and yes, I believe your thread belongs here in GQ II.

I don't have a lot of time right now but I just wanted to say: PLEASE call your wife's parents and tell them about these emails. This is an ONGOING affair and you need their support to end it.

Second, try to go WITH your wife and boys to VA. I know, it will be difficult arranging it at work, but your marriage is at risk.

Third, is the other man married? If so, do everything you can to find his wife and send her those emails. She needs to know, and she can help you keep your wife and her husband apart.

Good Luck Gruffles- sorry if this doesn't make a whole lot of sense (I'm typing fast), but I feel so strongly about this and you don't have lots of time! I'm sure lots of other posters will help you soon!
~Saturn

Why would you trust someone who you *know* is being untrustworthy.

If she goes cross-country without you to where old HS BF lives, your WW will sleep with him. She is too vulnerable to control herself.

Now you can't control another person. But IMHO you are a fool if you let her put herself (and your M) in this extremely charged. situation.

Man up. Put down the money and go with her. Or frankly ask her for the good of your M to not go. And if she declines, let her know that the consequences could be devastating. Honestly, what could she say if you asked her "Why should either one of us believe that you would be able to refrain from contacting Old-BF on the trip?" Any honest, sensible person would agree that this is insane.

Protect your WW from herself.

- WG

There is no virtue in affording trust to an untrustworthy person. That does not make them trustworthy, it just invites destructive behavior. Trust has to be EARNED.

Hi,
You sound so much like me. I am in avery similar situation and some of the past mirrors you as well. It amazes me how many times you can read the same story over and over from different men. I am new to MB so I offer no advice but will pray for you.

Gruffles,

You are grossly underestimating the risk here. Your trust is misplaced.

The other man's intent is clear (hello beautiful). Your WW's intent is clear (wanna go to CA for sex). Neither one of them can change their emotions for one another quickly; at best your WW is supressing her emotions/behavior temporarily around you because she knows you know. Once alone across country it just takes one phone call to bring on the full blown affair.

You *have* to stop the trip (best option) or go. Your wife's parents, even if they completely believe you, can't stop her. She will lie to them in a heartbeat and even if they don't like it, they are powerless to prevent her.

- WG

Generally and with the backing of historical precedent with my wifes affair (with an old highschool boyfriend in her old hometown, no less) and all I've read here the last 2+ years...your WW will say or do anything to get you to allow her to take that trip back east.

You must insist on going. She likely won't allow you to, she'll go NUTS trying to manipulate you into not going but you must insist or she can't go.

If you are at a point of strength (which I know is a very difficult point to be at in your situation) you could tell her that she simply can't go or you'll be meeting with an attorney and filing for D (do NOT ever promise her that you won't). It's the only other card you have and not one I would recommend. I think you MUST just go with her or get her to not go.

WW's parents must know (they may be disappointed but they should understand why WW's trip must be delayed). OM's parents must know.

Just like my wifes affair...the emotional affair began with the very first email. Classmates.com thank you very much.

In the end...you are VERY likely to save your marriage, should that be your choice. There are many reasons for this but mostly, because, when push comes to shove your wife has NO ABILITY to force you and the kids to move from Montana to Virginia. I doubt OM is willing to move to Montana so absent your wife abandoning you and the kids to chase her "assoulmate" to Virginia (which has happened here but very occassionally) the affair will eventually end IF you stick to the MB plan.

Mr. Wondering

Post deleted by Gruffles

Either you both go, or neither of you go. She is too early into withdrawal from the OM to be able to control herself. She is TOO vulnerable. I promise you, if she goes by herself, OM will contact her, your WW will not be able to resist his advances, and you will be in a MUCH worse situation than before. Once the affair is consummated, it is much more difficult to stop. Don't take our warnings lightly. We've all been through this and have the emotional scars to prove it.

DEFINITELY go to VA with your wife and kids!!! Do whatever it takes to be there to prevent the EA from becoming a PA.

Good luck!

Then I guess it's better to hang on to your job than your wife. Sorry, but that's where this will go if you don't go or you don't stop her.

BTW,

Your actual wife.

Someday

when she's thought and figured this all out

will THANK YOU for saving/protecting her

She will be ANGRY, but your marriage can and will survive anger, whereas, a continuing enabled physical affair it can not.

Plus, YOU MATTER TOO!

YOU will later regret, whether you recover your marriage or not, any failure to stand strong in this particular instance in YOUR life. This is one of those moments in your life where you can either man up and accept the consequences of taking action in spite of the fear you perceive (she'll be mad, parents will be disappointed, she'll never forgive me for this, she's been so trapped in Montana how can I not allow her to go home...she misses it soo, etc).

I failed this test in my life. I let my wife go on a very similiar "trip" back home a couple years ago. In spite of it, we still saved our marriage, however, WE (both my wife and I) regret I wasn't able to do more to STOP such trip by whatever means I could have to the extent I could have. I'm not saying it was my reponsibility and neither is/was my loving wife however in hindsight there are things I could have done.

I could have exposed to OM's parents
I could have immediately called my wife's parents
I could have told her, if you go I will file divorce (she wasn't ready to divorce me...she was still in testing mode with OM and actually OM wasn't someone she wanted to marry she just HAD to continue the affair, day to day)
I could have cancelled all credit cards and denied her access to any money (OM had none...however, ww had her own Credit Cards)

Again, WW's, in your wife's situation, have been fantasizing and planning the trip to see OM in their minds for weeks. They will lie, cheat and steal to make it reality. Believe NOTHING.

Mr. Wondering

Post deleted by Gruffles

We're not trying to beat you up, we just want you to understand how dire the situation is. Don't take anything for granted.

A person cannot be "mentally out" of a marriage, that is FOG TALK. A person is either married or not married. [this is a classic wayward bullcrap rationalization, btw, it sounds like you have bought it] There is NEVER an excuse to have an affair, it doesn't matter what her feelings were the week she started having an affair. An affair is an affair. It is not defined or rationalized by feelings, but by one's LEGAL marital status.

I hope that reconsider calling her parents as this might be the IDEAL TIME to mend fences with them. Tell them you realize you have been not been the best husband and that your W has started having an affair. ASK THEM FOR THEIR HELP AND SUPPORT IN SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE. I bet they would respond, and would even appreciate your asking for help. Exposing the affair to them will help ensure she does not meet the OM while out there.

And lastly, how do you know the OM is divorced? By what he says?? You should still call up his wife to verify this.

And I will just warn you again about counseling. Most counslers are not PRO-MARRIAGE and can actually cause more harm than good, especially marriage counselors.

It is an option. You are choosing other things. I would encourage you to consider it penny-wise and pound-foolish. I'm going to lose 1/2 my net worth in my upcoming divorce. Strictly from a financial perspective, let alone the uncountable emotional damage, I'd have paid tens of thousands of dollars if there was something I could have done to prevent my WW's affairs.

Obviously this isn't desirable for you. You'll lose this job, probably. So what. Do you want to be divorced? $700 is a bargain.
A BARGAIN!

What we @ MB can see, but you can't seem to is that your wife is still currently 'mentally out of the marriage'. You can't trust your instincts here or anything your wife says now.

And the bad news is that the affair was only a couple of weeks old... It hasn't had time to die. Deep in your W's brain she is clinging onto the affair. The A, in her mind, has a lot of (false) potential to make her happy.

(Sarcasm) This is great if your goal is post-hoc detection, and not prevention.

Seriously, your friends aren't PIs, and if they aren't living next to the OM or your wife's parents, they'll have no clue.

Then he's desperate for a rebound relationship with *your* wife. Congrats, you have a dedicated and unconstrainted adversary.

I'm so sorry for you. This is one case where we have been burned and want to save you from worse pain.

- WG

Gruffles:

She is a Stay at home MOM?

Sorry the visit to VA ain't going to happen.

Your WW wasn't going to show off the grandkids.

She was going to be with the OM, and planning an extra week when not even the kids would be there.

Her parents would have bought any lie she came up with to spend the night out with others.

"Old friend Jane called, we are going OUT at 10pm! Thanks for watching the kids, they are sleeping now, and won't be a problem!"

And then she comes back in anywhere from 3 am to 630 am.

Then it will be old friend June, Janice, Judy, Jane again, then whoever else until she had to get on a plane to return.

Cancel the tickets.

Tell the grandparents why.

Have the tickets changed so that grandparents can visit you and her in MT.

This was going PA.

And her parents would have supported her thru to entire thing.

And if they knew the truth, from you, then they would help a little less, but not likely, this is thier child we are talking about....

LG

OM's ex wife, especially if they have children, is another good exposure target.

If the divorce was bitter you can count on her exposing the affair around town adequately.

You can play the high road regarding such exposure as you were only telling her so she could protect OM's children from exposure to such immoral conduct.

Another thing, OM as a very recent divorcee is not likely in a hurry to remarry. Recent divorcee's like OM (this OM, like our OM, may, in fact, be a victim of his ex-wife's affair) are emotional basketcases. This is why they reach out and look up old girlfriends on the internet in the first place. They want to revert to adolescence. To simplier days. It's very easy for them to get caught up in this fantasy however their weakness makes them vulnerable to pressure. They are single now and can DATE any woman they want. Make them uncomfortable and they move on...just as our OM did. Exposure is the trick.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - The counseling you go to tomorrow will likely be divorce counselling. Your wife will attempt to sell you and the counsellor all the reasons your marriage hasn't and won't work out. Why you should allow her and the kids to move to Virginia for the rest of the summer or even longer. Be careful and have no expectations. Your wife is wayward right now and will use any and all of your perceived weaknesses to manipulate you. You may not have been a perfect husband, NONE of us were/are, but an affair you didn't deserve and you can't fix a marriage with 3 people in the relationship no matter how hard you try.

Now is as good a time as any to get RIGHT with her parents as well. A big part of your recovery of changing yourself around is to admit to her parents what you've admitted to us and your W. You owe them an apology for the poor job you did taking care of their daughter.

Let them hear your confession and your determination to change so that this M can be turn around. Vow to them what you are going to do to try to win back their D's heart.

I hear you're going to speak with her Mom so start with the apology and your newfound comittment and then ask for her help.