Brief hx: my dh, then 30 had an affair with a co-student while I was supporting the family and working my [censored] off. We had been married 5 years at that point, together 7, 1 child. It was horrifying and devastating and although I'm a totally different person now and it doesn't hurt me the way it once did, I will never be the same person or the same wife. That trust is forever gone. I love him with all my heart and I would have been miserable without him so I chose to stay and be miserable with him. In all respects he did EVERYTHING right and he is a totally changed man and the husband I always dreamt I would have.

But I am not happy. I'm content. I'm at peace. But I'm broken. My dh is still terrified of honesty and it's my top EN. Always has been. I'm brutally honest with him all the time and at times he really doesn't want to hear it and tells me so. Really though, I just want HIS honesty and I still do not feel as though I have a complete picture of the first five years of our marriage. I do feel satisfied with disclosures from the "Big" affair that he had, but there were others before that. EAs as far as I know, but really DON'T know because clearly those issues were buried and ended up in a full blown A with a different person later on. His OW breezily mentioned that he'd had "others" but he denied it and it was hard to sort out if she was again trying to just hurt him through me or if he was lying. There were two previous EAs I was aware of but to my knowledge they weren't physical.

Mostly he's just deathly afraid of confrontation. To the extent he will allow himself to be ripped off without saying anything or won't return something for fear of dealing with the clerk questioning him. The irony is that he's way into martial arts and you would think he'd be this strong, confrontational person, but he's the opposite. And to him admitting any negative emotions towards me feels too confrontational so he always buries it. He has gotten much better in all fairness to him and he has changed a LOT and grown tremendously. He's this gorgeous, charming, loving man who on the outside is anyone's dream guy. But damn, he's SO fearful and it's a huge turn off to me.

Back to me. When we married I was SO physically unattractive. I'm not even kidding. But I was ambitious, successful and artistic and he loved me anyhow. After I loss a huge chunk of weight he had his full-blown affair. I guess he thought he was no longer good enough or something. I NEVER felt that way ever. But humans are tricky when it comes to their own perceptions.

As I've entered my mid-30s I'm in the best shape of my life. My skin has cleared up, I've learned how to groom myself, I guess I'm actually kind of attractive now. If I compare before and after pictures it's almost like a true ugly duckling/swan thing. Majority of the time though I forget and I act and carry on as though I'm invisible. It always surprises me when men hit on me.

I have a business acquaintance who I've recently done some legal work for. This acquaintance is the potential OM. He's 20 years older than me, a multi-millionaire, married and very old school european. I've never been treated by a man the way he treats me. He makes me feel as though I've spent my entire life dealing with boys posing as men. He's just SO suave and in control (and a gigantic player with a capital P). I suffer no illusions that his aggressive sexual interest in me is nothing more than a "flavor of the month" and that once he's made his conquest, he'll move on. But there's this part of me that just once in my life wants to be the pretty girl who gets the rich man, if only for a day. I was a devout Catholic when I found out about my dh's affair. I prided myself on my morals and I promised him he did NOT have to worry about me seeking revenge--and I meant it at the time. But as time has worn on I've grown jaded. Cold. The warm, naive trusting girl is dead. I may have been glued back together after I was shattered but I'm not as strong as I once was. I'm me, but I'm different.

Quite frankly at this stage of the game I'm more concerned about STDs than my dh's feelings. I have none to speak of and I'd like to keep it that way. If anything prevents me from being broken down it will be that alone. My dh has shown me that good, decent people are flawed and can hurt the person they love to an extent I couldn't have previously imagined. In a way I feel like the only way I can truly move past it all is to [censored] up myself so that we're two f*cked up humans holding eachother up. NOT on purpose, I swear I wasn't looking for this. I've had dozens of opportunities for "revenge" that I've never looked twice at. This OM is an embodiment of a deep, long-time fantasy of mine of the "older male". The hot professor that all the pretty girls in college could have, but never me. For the first time I'm young and pretty when I've spent the majority of my adulthood very ugly and feeling 100 years old and only admired/wanted by those who knew my personality. I'm also the caretaker at home of finances and just everything and the idea of being spoiled and taken care of even just short term is almost too much to pass up. It's a fantasy, an escape from reality and it goes against every fabric of my upbringing.

I'm so, so tired of being The Good Girl. This post sounds selfish and rationalizing and full of [censored] and I KNOW that. I just wish I was more ashamed of how I'm feeling right now. I wish I could ignore this sexual energy I feel every time he text-messages me or calls--because my husband is crazy hot and just as sexy and I shouldn't be feeling this way.

This has become a battle between regrets--will I regret going through with it or will I look back in 20 years and smack myself for not? I am not in love with this OM. I do not want to marry him and have his babies. I would never leave my husband nor do I want to.

But good god--the temptation is almost more than I can bare. And with my husband's past indiscretions it's making it awfully easy to justify. Would his fidelity have changed things? Yes and no. I'd still have been attracted to OM, but I would have put the brakes on wayyyyyyy long ago. I can see affairs happening 10 steps away like a chess game and I know better. I know when to stop. But I've allowed myself to get sucked in by a handsome rich player who thinks he's been playing his cards coyly and meticulously. In some regards he has, but only because I've allowed him too.

The worst part is, I feel like I could do this, move on and feel absolutely no shame about it nor miss the OM. And the idea of my husband finding out about it and being hurt almost makes me feel vindicated. But not really. He'll never, ever know what it's like to be blindsided. This, he would have seen coming and I know that for a fact.

I know what I *should* do. I know what the right thing is, despite my marital past. My husband had multiple opportunities to get stuff out of his system and now he is one happy and fulfilled man. I guess I just want my turn. And in a strange way even if it was to go down really bad or as effortlessly as I picture, I feel like I'd understand and forgive him on a completely different level.

Let me have it if you want. Or sympathize. I guess I just wanted to not feel so alone. No matter what I decide, life is going to go on and I will have to lie in whatever bed I make.

It's kind of sad that you would be willing to do to another woman the same thing that hurt you so much.

Believer, um, I get what you're saying and I've considered that angle, but his situation is so far off from mine that it's impossible to compare. He and his wife have their own arrangement. I'm not betraying his spouse. She is aware of and accepts his lifestyle. I'll leave it at that.

"I'm not betraying his spouse. She is aware of and accepts his lifestyle. I'll leave it at that."

That is what all of the sexual predators say.

You are making excuses for your own EA

JA,

A very interesting post and thought provoking as well. Why shouldn't you get revenge? Why shouldn't you reap the fruits of your labors to improve your looks, if not your morals? Why should you care if it hurts your H or your marriage? Why should you care if you lost your H and broke up your family? WHy should you care if OM is lying to you about his W, after all he is honest about everything else right?

Given your reasoning, I can think of no reason for you not to go fornicate with the OM. Heck the old dog might teach you some new tricks. Your arguements are very compelling and I am sure they will make sense to your H and your children. I am sure in 20 years you will be proud of yourself as your H is proud of himself.

GO FOR IT, is what I say IF:

You really are that kind of a woman.
You are a woman with no pride or morals.
You are a woman that does not mind what your children and friends might think of you.
You are a woman that thinks a roll in the hay will solve her problems.
You are a woman that only focuses on herself.
You are a woman that can look your kids in the eye and say "do as I say, not what I do/did."
You are the kind of woman that can not forgive but will expect everyone else to forgive you.
You are the kind of a woman that has NO respect for herself and values herself so little, that being a play thing for an "old rich man" is the apex of her goals in life.

JA, you need to have a reality check. Your thinking is selling yourself down the river and you may think you will not feel guilt or remorse, but if you are any kind of a woman you will. Otherwise, perhaps your H was right when he was out fooling around. Are you going to make him right after all??? Hard thing to do, but you seem to have what it takes to do it. All it takes is denial, no morals, and no value of yourself.

Please think about this abit, and then let's talk further.

God Bless,

JL

Wow. Kudos. Great job of entitlement. You aren't happy. It's WH's fault you aren't happy. So you deserve this affair.

Now, you were a devout catholic but are no longer. Close your eyes. Is adultery right or wrong? Forget about what your WH did. Is adultery right or wrong?

WH cannot make you happy. OM cannot make you happy. Only you can make yourself happy which is apparently what you are trying to do if even for a day with OM.

If you cannot find a way to be happy with WH. Divorce him. Then do whatever you want.

This reminds me. "Indecent Proposal" was on TV the other day.

javaaddict,

My reply is not intended to be offensive - just plain speaking.

I just can't believe that someone so badly affected by an affair would consider inflicting the same hurt on someone else. Your husband would be just as badly affected and would probably find it hard not to take the blame. You are simply deluded if you truly believe that the OMW would not be affected. As someone in the middle of Plan A, I can tell you it hurts more than any other experience. That snake you have been having an emotional affair with has just learned to be effective at getting into other women's knickers.

Wake up and smell the coffee that I assume is the source of your display name. Take this as a warning from the God you once worshipped. Either fix your marriage or get out of it. If you decided to fix it then apply the MB principles. Tell your H about it, write a NC letter and work your hardest on repairing your marriage which is obviously still broken. If you can’t/won’t do this or your efforts to repair the marriage fail then get a divorce and do what you want AFTERWARDS!

This way if the worst comes to the worst and you break up your marriage, you will at least emerge with dignity and integrity. Do it the other way and you will feel like s***.

I think the fact that you have taken the time to write such a detailed post is a sign that your morals are still in good shape.

I wish you the best of luck and hope for your sake that you make the right and honourable decision.

MW

JA,

My advice for what it's worth, get yourself in therapy to find out exactly what it is that is missing in YOU that you are even considering this. You have done a great deal for yourself in regard to physical looks, now it's time to work on your self-esteem and have it as healthy as your exterior.

No doubt the OM is building up your ego and in the end you will feel very used. It's not worth it.


I felt exactly the same way you did prior to actually moving forward in my A. I guarantee the regret will be that you went through with it, NOT that you didn't do it.

The OM said his W would't care, I would be sure to ask her that yourself and see if her answer matches his.

LC

JA, the fact that you've gone to the bother of typing this all out suggests that you're struggling with your conscience. You feel a strong pull towards doing something deeply selfish, and a tiny warning voice that says it's not a wise thing to do, and you don't know which voice to listen to.

Except you do, don't you? Deep down, you know what's needed for your integrity and self-worth in the long run.

What leaps out of your post is how much anger you're nursing. You're looking to do something self-destructive because it will damage your marriage and your H, and that destruction and sense of power is the real draw, I suspect.

I think you are perfectly well aware that acting out of spite and hate is a bad idea.

I think you need a great deal of help in dealing with the self-esteem issues left by your H's affair. An injection of false-esteem generated by the temporary attention of another man is going to make your problem worse, not better.

Damaging your marriage will be a very short-lived solution to your pain. Lying to yourself in order to be able to act badly is a step down a very slippery path.

TA

back around 2000/2001 my ex and i were struggling in our marriage. we never spent time together, i was looking really good and my ex never ever told me i looked good or was pretty, nothing. pretty much NONE of my needs were being met by my then h. we were status quo, just going along day to day. i was wrestling with having us separate for a bit.

and there was someone at work....

so, h and i separated because i was just soooo unhappy. it was a bit hard at first, and my h, he was devastated. altho, he really was clueless. our marriage sucked but he seemed to think it was alright. of course he did, he did what he wanted when he wanted and still had dinner made for him, and clothes washed, etc. i was just 'there'

during our separation i spent a lot of time with guy from work. he was engaged but of course, not happy. he was around my age and a superior. everyone thought he was hot. and we had this hot steamy friendship. i guess you could call it an ea. it never went physical. got close, but never did. we just couldn't cross that one line.

hindsight is 20/20. i will admit to you, if this man had not been in my life i would have fought a lot harder for my marriage. he was a huge distraction. when h and i got back together after our separation things were never the same.he had read email exchanges and was very hurt by them. he never believed me that it was never physical. as much as my ex has hurt me deeply with his anger issues and his affairs and his neglect, i still struggle with myself over the pain i caused him by this "friendship" i had with this guy from work. i will never forget the look in his eyes. it was awful. i did a horrible thing by getting so close to another man when my marriage was struggling. but i felt entitled because my marriage had been stagnent and hurtful for so long. it felt so good to have a man tell me i was gorgeous, that i was funny and easy to talk to. all my ex did was work and never be home. and then sleep when he was home. i should have put the breaks on immediately, got myself into counseling and my ex and i into counseling because at that point i think he would have been willing to do anything to salvage things.

but i was distracted like you are now.

my marriage is long dead. we have been apart for 2 years now. we ended up separating again (again by my choice) and when we got back together it was never the same. his affairs had begin, the whole nine yards. we did not make it.

and i often wonder if turned my ex into what he has become because of that hurt i caused him that first time we separated.

get into counseling before you do something you will have to live with the rest of your life.

my ex had had inappropriate friendships with women as well before all this happened. and i told him it hurt me and he did it anyway. i still don't feel any better about what i did.

3 words: don't do it

mlhb

I just can't believe that someone so badly affected by an affair would consider inflicting the same hurt on someone else.
_________________

that puzzles me too.

maybe it's because i have not been tempted beyond my own morals...or values or self-respect or something.
i tend to believe there are people who can have affairs and those who just won't.....because of their own values...more than anythign else.

i CAN understand the need to seek revenge for th pain....i CAN understand how difficult is to trust again....i have not overcoem either of those feelings......but, I don't understand how someone could INFLICT that pain on soemone else....knowing full well how it ruined them.

Ditto to what everyone else has said. You are setting yourself up for the biggest heartbreak yet to come. If you go through with this, guaranteed you will become addicted to this guy and he obviously isn't going to leave his W. You'll then be in for agony far beyond what you ever thought because by that time not only will you be suffering, but your H, family, and his W and family will also be suffering. He's been through this before, so you'll be just another hash mark on the pad. In the meantime you will have possibly destroyed your marriage for good.

So you know OM is a player. How do you think you will feel about yourself when you wake up the week after and realize that you let yourself be used like that? How is that going to boost your self-esteem. Affairs are fantasy. That's why most don't last. Yet they leave such destruction in their wake. You have said you aren't interested in OM - you are just interested in a day of fantasy - 24 hours of self-indulgence. At least you aren't fooling yourself about that. The only thing you are fooling yourself about is believing there are no victims here.

i know i would NEVER do now what i did back then.
knowing how much pain and ea/pa inflicts on the other person in the equation be it a spouse or gf/bf or fiance.

but back then, when my marriage was sh*t, and i had that friendship, i will be honest, brutally honest, in that i just did not think of his fiance. i blocked her out of my vision. i pretended she did not exist. a "what she doesn't know won't hurt her" mentality. i justified because he said "he was so unhappy and didn't know how to get out of the relationship" and that "she was this and she was that" typical stuff so he could get what he wanted: time with me. and i believed him.

dumb dumb dumb, that was me. and obviously not very grounded in my christian faith, and obviously i was very selfish and feeling pretty darn entitled.

they are still together, btw. don't know how. they STILL have not gotten married and have been together over 10 years. no kids. i know that he has gone thru extensive counseling.

after having been through it now with all my exes affairs, i could never do to another woman what was done to me. NOW I KNOW. and now i know how his fiance felt.

that was the one cord that struck me as well in her post.
he SAYS his wife is cool with this "arrangement". yea, that is what they ALLLLLL say. just a ploy to get in your pants. you are BETTER THAN THAT!

mlhb

Hi java:

I was in your shoes once, and I went ahead and had the affair. I wish I hadn't.

My husband's past set me up, yes. I could blame him, in fact I did (and he did too) but so what? I hate what I did. I honestly regret it. It was NOT the answer to my problems, it was a nightmare that is taking years to overcome.

My suggestion to you is to tell your husband about the OM . See what he does. Then get busy with life- immerse yourself in friendships and work and culture. Be the best person you can, and be proud that you still have your integrity intact.

I'll be thinking about you-
~Saturn

Coffee-nut,

Thanks for posting here; I like to think this is a place where people can be honest about their struggles.

I'm sorry to hear about the previous affair that rocked your marriage. You didn't deserve it. Many of us MBers have firsthand experience with that pain.

It doesn't sound like your M every really healed from your WH's A. I think that is a significant reason for your present crisis.

One quick thought, craftily designed just to give you a little pause: You could very well lose your H over your proposed fantasy / revenge affair. Men can be less forgiving about extramarital sex. Frankly, that you've so deliberately considered this action, knowing full well the pain to ensue, is really chilling. (OTOH, its partly good; just *think* a bit more.)

Read mldh's response. Her A wasn't physical. Do you want to be divorced?

One radical thought. Why not directly tell your H exactly how you are feeling(i.e., you find yourself tremendously tempted to have an affair with Mr. Sauve. You've felt this way for a time.)

What are the benefits:
(1) You will hurt your husband without risking STDs. (This is not actually why you should tell him, but it might be motivating in your case). In fact, you are already hurting him but you/he don't know it yet.

(2) You might find out how much FWH cares about you and your M.

(3) It will shake things up. Probably good since your M isn't thriving today.

(4) It will give the two of you a chance to work on the marriage. Tell him the truth, propose MC; your M needs it.

(5) It demonstrates the radical honesty that you say you want in the relationship.

(6) It doesn't give up your opportunity to ruin your life/M with a European man later. He (or a surrogate) will always be available to give you meaningless sex with no commitment or future when you want it.

You two didn't recover from the previous A. You should be able to trust a man who has been doing 'Everything' right for five years. You should not have chosen to stay miserable for five years.

Final thought: you wouldn't have posted here if you didn't have concerns or thought you would actually have regrets. You want to be talked out of it. So do yourself and your child a favor: run to your H and work on the M.

- WG

Same here. I'll never really know if she was being honest or blowing smoke. My FWH wasn't honest and forthright in the early days, weeks and months following d-day and now, the truth is, I wouldn't believe anything he told me about the past anyway, so what's the point.



Again, same here and I understand how it feels to want someone to take care of you for a change. But, BIG BUT, your OM isn't offering that is he? Looks and sounds more to me like he is looking to use you, not take care of you. And I think YOU know that.



My FWH could have written this about OW, he wasn't in love with her, didn't want marriage or babies, and never considered leaving me. Didn't lessen the damage caused by his A one bit.


My FWH thought the very same thing. But if you have any morals or sense of decency at all, and he did, the guilt hit him fast and hard and grew with each passing day. Letting go would have been easy, but OW "though" she was "in love" and wouldn't let him go easily. And when it was over, he really never gave her much thought at all. But, still our lives were in shambles.


How do you know this? Is this what OM told you? If that is the case, why would you believe someone that you know is a liar and cheat?

I am going to caution you here to be very careful of your motives. The OW in my sitch was a pretty unattractive gal. I have never been described that way. I have always been slim and am considered fairly attractive. Still, my FWH had an A with someone that no one would ever compare favorably to me. Yet it happened, and it made her feel somehow vindicated. She got revenge for years of being ignored by men who preferred women like me. But in the end, she just got rejected again by someone who had merely used her for awhile and would have never left me for her.

It has been five years since your H's A, and I am not sure you have truly forgiven him or yourself for staying with him.

Do not be certain that if you do this, he will forgive you or remain married to you. There are others here who had affairs after they were betrayed whose spouses divorced them for the very thing that they themselves had done. You better consider that as a possibility and decide if you are willing to take that risk.

Please get some counseling and don't knowlingly become the OW and the potential source of someone elses pain. Don't justify this by saying that if it isn't you, he will end up doing it with someone else.

Who

You've gotten some good advice and warnings that I hope you will heed.

It seems you haven't ever forgiven your husband. Maybe you should peruse the excellent concepts and materials available on this website to fall in love and stay in love with your husband. It is possible to have a better marriage than you have been having for the past several years.

You might want to order "His Needs Your Needs" and "Surviving an Affair". You might go away with your husband to the Marriage Builder's weekend in August or do the home study course together.

Certainly, putting this effort into your marriage would be more rewarding in the long run than a short lived fling for a momentary thrill and a selfish ego boost...but with an ultimate let down and the very real possibility that it will only cause you and many others lots of heartache and pain.

You know JA? I've been thinking and extrapolating. You have not been able to get close to your WH for some time. You must not want the divorce or you would have done that. I'm wondering if somewhere deep down in your subconscious, your mind has determined that this may be what you need to feel closer to WH or, more importantly, to have WH feel closer to you.

I say this because there is a strong correlation between WS's and parents who also had affairs. There is a theory that some children have affairs in a misguided attempt to try to connect with wayward parents.

Maybe you have tried most everything else in your M and somehow your brain has worked out this math. Our minds are very good at fooling us.