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What does whether or not he was talking about the forum have to do with the idea that emotional support & encouragement is supported by Dr. Harley's theory of Marriage Building?
Using the logic of "he was writing about his practice, not the forum. He never mentions the forum," as the reason to NOT include emotional support with Marriage Building support would leave you with the very limited option of never discussing Marriage Building at all since Dr. Harley wrote about it but he never mentioned the forum. graplin, huh? That makes no sense. My point is that this forum is not equipped to be a sole source of emotional support. Of course it is for limited MARITAL SUPPORT in learning how to enact the principles, but it can't be a substitute for a personal emotional support system. That doesn't preclude a certain level of potential emotional support, but that is not the GOAL. Dr.Harley is speaking to the emotional support that HE PROVIDES in his practice. For example, when one attends a MB weekend, they have weekly lessons and must report back to Dr. Harley on those lessons. Additionally, we have ongoing access to Dr. Harley on another part of this forum. But that is a forum that is attended by HIM; this open forum is attended by NOVICES just like me and you. We cannot guarantee emotional support to fellow board members, that is entirely a voluntary practice that cannot be counted on. This also does not make any sense to me. The group of posters here are just as equipped to provide emotional support as they are equipped to provide Marriage Building support. Of if you prefer discuss emotional support while we discuss MB principles. Anonymous posters on MB are not equipped to provide the exhaustive emotional support that is required by an addict or an alcoholic. When Dr. Harley referred to addicts getting support, he, no doubt was referring to AA or NA since I know he is well educated in the field of addiction. As an alcoholic with 22 years of sobriety, I can attest to that.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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graplin, huh? That makes no sense. My point is that this forum is not equipped to be a sole source of emotional support. And no one has even hinted, suggested or written *anything* about this forum being equipped as a sole source of emotional support. So, to what are you responding? Of course it is for limited MARITAL SUPPORT in learning how to enact the principles, but it can't be a substitute for a personal emotional support system. That doesn't preclude a certain level of potential emotional support, but that is not the GOAL. Again. NO ONE has suggested that the forums be used as a substitute for a personal emotional support system or that being a personal emotional support system is the goal. So, to what are you responding? Dr.Harley is speaking to the emotional support that HE PROVIDES in his practice. For example, when one attends a MB weekend, they have weekly lessons and must report back to Dr. Harley on those lessons. Additionally, we have ongoing access to Dr. Harley on another part of this forum. But that is a forum that is attended by HIM; this open forum is attended by NOVICES just like me and you. We cannot guarantee emotional support to fellow board members, that is entirely a voluntary practice that cannot be counted on. Again, you debate an argument that has not been presented. NO ONE has attempted to guarantee emotional support or that it can be counted on. Anonymous posters on MB are not equipped to provide the exhaustive emotional support that is required by an addict or an alcoholic. When Dr. Harley referred to addicts getting support, he, no doubt was referring to AA or NA since I know he is well educated in the field of addiction. As an alcoholic with 22 years of sobriety, I can attest to that. Again, NO ONE has made the assertion that forum participants are equipped to provide the exhaustive emotional support that is required by an addict or an alcoholic.What I did say was that the participants are as qualified to provide emotional support as they are to provide marriage builder support. That amount of qualification might be "not very" for both categories. But I just don't get why you are attempting to draw some distinction of complexity about emotional support, ie. "Just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without support. That's where we come in! We care... because we know how it feels. Believe it... You are not alone! Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!" as opposed to Marriage Builder's principles. We can "help" tell people how they should deal with their wayward spouses, marriages & kids, but we can't "help" people with their tumultuous emotions?
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Again, NO ONE has made the assertion that forum participants are equipped to provide the exhaustive emotional support that is required by an addict or an alcoholic. Good, then there is no point of contention, is there? Again, you debate an argument that has not been presented. NO ONE has attempted to guarantee emotional support or that it can be counted on. Then we are on the same page, because emotional support cannot be guaranteed on this forum. It can certainly be found here, not guaranteed.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Using the logic presented here the following should all be banned as not conforming to discussing MB principles and only MB principles and the following, to me, all classify as "emotional support":
There should be no birthday greetings
There should be no jokes between members
There should be no members saying they like each other and admire each other's posts and no arranging to meet one another IRL
There should be no mention of children or pets, where people live or what people do for a living
There should be no cliques of friendship
There should be no "attaboys" or "attagirls"
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Using the logic presented here the following should all be banned as not conforming to discussing MB principles and only MB principles and the following, to me, all classify as "emotional support": Who used that logic? I must have missed it. Do you have a quote?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Jeepers..all I was saying was that THE FOCUS is not EMOTIONAL SUPPORT...as in "insight-oriented psychotherapy"...or "inner child work".. or whatever..
My MAIN sources of EMOTIONAL SUPPORT were my psychotherapist and my family and my GFs and MY LORD...
MBers MAINLY helped me with the BATTLE to save MY MARRIAGE...strategizing..fighting the war..speaking with my FELLOW TROOPS...
Last edited by mimi_here; 07/10/07 05:54 PM.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Self-inventory eh? I need to laugh more. YES ! and that's why you're gonna have burgers with ME Saturday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> bring your silly
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Good, then there is no point of contention, is there? Well, that was kinda circular. You didn't actually engage my actual responses, you made up responses on my behalf and then proceeded to argue with your own substituted responses. Mimi wrote: In my view, as indicated above, this is a MARRIAGEBUILDING SITE and not a EMOTIONAL SUPPORT site. I wrote: I don't understand why you would see these two things as mutually exclusive. (provided excerpts from Harley in regards to the need of emotional support & encouragement along with commitment to the principles.) You wrote: Again, he was writing about his practice, not the forum. He never mentions the forum. The forum is just a group of posters like you and me that is not equipped to provide the level of emotional support that one needs, Ed. Note - my understanding of what you were saying: Harley didn't write about the forum at the same time he was writing about the need for emotional support and encouragement, so therefore emotional support is not a part of the forum. We have gone from the general proposal that emotional support is a part of forum participation to the idea that a certain level of emotional support is required, therefore no one on the forum should be offering emotional support since no one is qualified. The goalposts additionally changed to: *this forum is not equipped to be a sole source of emotional support. *doesn't preclude a certain level of potential emotional support, but that is not the GOAL. The original contention was that marriage building support and emotional support are not mutually exclusive. That one could provide marital support as well as emotional support. Levels, goals, guarantees and participant expertise were not presented as data points of argument. Then we are on the same page, because emotional support cannot be guaranteed on this forum. It can certainly be found here, not guaranteed. And it looks like we may have finally arrived at a point of agreement. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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thats so nice, graplin, glad we got all that straight! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Ok. Call me CONFUSED..I guess this requires more SELF-INVENTORY.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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count me confused too, Mimi! Oh well.....
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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So, are we back to self-inventory?
I counted myself.
One.
SB
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Seriously though. Now that you all know I'm not a multiple-personality.
Personal inventory:
1. Seek inner peace.
2. Find a way to believe that others view me as "okay".
Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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Mimi, You still confused? I think you arrived at what you really meant...and I'm glad to have read through it... You said the Focus...so it's not to the exclusion of MB and it's not without any emotional support. I think that's brilliant and clear. You're watching your focus...find where it gets sucked into another posters' feelings. I know that one. I'm working on that, also. And you're right...when my focus goes to striving to change, control another posters' feelings, I'm sucked right in...and really reactive. Just like I was with DH, prior to MB. I also have a thing for parallels, can't ya tell? It's all win-win to me...part of my self-inventory. Gosh...did I rhyme? I hate that when that happens. Schoolbus...LOL to your inventory (I really did laugh out loud)...and as to your inventory...I view you as totally okay. Believe it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> LA
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2. Find a way to believe that others view me as "okay". Hey, that was some good counting! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I found this to be an interesting inventory item and wondered if you could explain. Are you concerned that others view you in a certain way?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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