Wow..... I go to work, come home and found the lock on the.... thread!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I think this is a 1st for me. Can't recall when my last thread was locked. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I know I've participated in a few in the past....especially in those SNL days. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hm.... seems things got a bit heated. I thought I asked a thought provoking question one with the intent to create dialogue that all could benefit from (i.e either by posting or reading). Wasn't meant t/b a 'control' thingy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Though we aren't privy to it, still makes me wonder who all those posters were that voiced a negative opinion? Seems those posting were able to say their piece (though a bit rough around the edges at times <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) and keep it the dialogue going. Maybe I gotta go back and read it all again. LOL!!

I saw a lot wondering about my intent but few asked me. Oh well.... no biggie.

Still I personally like to have threads that help people think because even a new BS will find it sort of grounding to talk about a subject without their name and feelings on every page. That is what helped me a lot when I came here. There were many. Those posts helped me put some perspective and helped me focus with a much clearer head. They helped me out of the depths of depression which is where the WS often sends a BS.

How were the 'older posters' when I came? Some had little patience, many had a lot. Most are no longer regular posters but may read occasionally. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What you all gotta realize is there is NO easy fix. No instant answers. Each and everyone one who is dedicated to recovery (personal or personal and marital) HAS TO work at it. Don't just post here and expect to get all the answers all pretty and handed to you. Neither does it do any good to ask for help and NOT at the very least acknowledge it.

Sometimes I wonder why I post. I watch a poster ask for help, sounds sincere so I step in and read a bit. Maybe even do some research, try to give the best answers I can and yea if I have time even temper it a bit. Then what? For the next few days or weeks, it was as if I never posted. Not that I need t/b recognized. NO!! That's not it. What is discouraging is NOT to see the one calling for help actually use the help provided.

Look peoples...... we don't have to like or apply all we read here but at least read it, consider it, apply what you can and move forward.

I feel confident enough to say that even the toughest MBer here doesn't want to see another BS suffer so. Yep, even our resident tough love experts. LOL!!! Why? Because we all know what that's like and we don't want anyone to experience the same.

Now maybe this rebuttal thread w/b locked also. Hope not but who knows. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I will work with whatever I can to help who I can and during the process I manage to learn stuff from others too!! So all in all this MB place has been a good experience for me.

There is a way to beat that mothership. I gringe when I see any type of WS attitude or whining here. If that offends some, well so be it. I do mean to offend WS' because that's all they seem to hear. Nice stuff goes in their ear and out their __ ___ ___ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

MB 2x4, seems some thinks it's only a verbal abuse tool. It really isn't. Look again. Even on that 'locked' thread some were helped. For those who grumbled and caused it t/b closed, it is the loss of those who could have been helped. For that I am sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

L.

You helped me Orchid...big time.

I thought it was a brilliant question and a worthwhile poll.

I learned new stuff reading your thread. But then, I always do. Didn't know you were such a controversial woman!

Heehee.

The thread remains...so others can glean what they will from it. No loss at all, IMO.

To me, it really is an important statement...it being locked from requests...because what someone stated as fact that your thread was about...made it become fact. To me, it was finding the two endpoints...two extremes of 2x4's (the too soft, too hard) to get to the really functional middle 2x4. Not about style...about what posters here really feel, how they perceive...their experience.

Not others style.

To me it seemed like a fact-finding mission...we can say, "This drives BS away"..."This causes BS to suffer more" "We do harm to BS when..." (And you can insert BS for FWS or Poster, for that matter.) Seems to me, you wanted to find out, for real. From the poster's fingers, directly.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Btw...I didn't get a chance to post (it was locked while I was reading it) and I voted. So I answered your request in my thread to Graplin.

Welcome home, Orchid.

That'll teach you to go to work, eh?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

HI, O! I hope that you are well, LMAO, for the most part returning from work...

I wanted to say that I enjoyed your post above and wil be looking forward to checking out this "exciting" thread for the value that it was intended...

I feel that my growth has been a direct result of MB and certain MBers ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) here... patience was a great key...

I also see what you are saying about posting to someone and then it not being acknowledged...sharing my hope, strenght and experience...not for the acknowledgement...but b/c I hope that something "I" say helps someone else and in turn "I" may learn something new...

LA- I cherish you...I must say here that it's amazing how "I" can feel taht my personal growth has come to a stand still and know that it hasn't...it's just not as fast as it once was and I'm learning to exercise patience with myself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you both for your time and effort...for sharing!

Rinners!!! I'm acknowledging your post.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Cherish you right back...how brilliant to know there are no stand-stills...sometimes, it's just the same lessons, seeping in, further down...settling in deeper.

Your transformation has been amazing to watch...inspiring. Patience and *ahem* not judging your own growth...LOL. Part of the whole, isn't it?

(((Rin)))

LA

Ok Orchid,

What did you do now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Causin trouble by making people think again? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now I have to searching to find out what has been going on. But, before I leave, I hope you realize that you do give people here a lot of help and good advice and I hope that you realize that I and others really respect you for all of your effort.

God Bless,

JL

I for one appreciate the time and wisdom you have given me over the last few weeks.

thank you for your kindness.

BTW - how does a thread get locked?

Can I ask one more selfish question?
Any answers to this:

It is said on this website and in SH books that affairs usually end in 6 months - 2 years. What is the starting time for that? When they start seeing each other, after d-day, or after exposure? I know specific dates can't be given but some kind of an idea would help. Am I 3 months into this (when they started & ILYBNILWY), or 2 months (admitted EA), or 3 weeks (found out depth of A and exposed)?


And then another question. It looks like my WH might be trying to make contact with our boys after almost 2 months. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

SG

LA & S4B,

Sure would like NOT t/g to work. LOL!!! Glad t/b able to help. U 2 are out there helping also.

That's good. Keep up the good work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
Orchid

My dear JL,

You know I was wonderin' why all the guys stayed away from that thread?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

After all these years..... you'd think I'd learn. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I must be a slow learner. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thank you very much. You input means a lot 2 me.

Where r u going? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.

Ok SG, This one's 4 u!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Orchid: Locking threads is the job of the moderators. GQII usually has at least a couple of mods. There's a lot of traffic here and the mods have a big job monitoring all our posts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> They also have a life, so I wonder how they do it sooo well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Your question isn't selfish. Better to ask, learn and grow then t/b stunted for life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Start of the A: Not sure of the exact determination. I believe the start is d/d for many. There have been instances where the ended before d/d. So it isn't an exact science. Just look at it this way..... d/d is a fair measuring tool for the BS. Don't put too much stock in the timeframe. The one thing a WS has a hard time doing is telling time.

Have you heard:

1. The WS ILYBNILWY babble and when you ask when did that start.....they suddenly have to go pee or get away??!?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

2. They say the A hasn't been going on long. Long? Short? Long is anytime the A starts, even if it is only a thought in their head!!!! Stupid WS'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

3. The WS babbles that they always care for their family. WHAT?!??!!? Howz having an A for any length of time caring for one's family?



Orchid: Missing your boys is a good thing. Seeing the WS in pain (due to lack of family contact), is a good thing.

What you need t/d is shore up your boys. No matter how young. My son was 6 when d/d hit. He was one of my biggest supporters. That little tyke told his dad off something royal.

Reassure your boys of your love and the fact that you will never abandon them. Even if they are very young.

OT, I knew a cat who would not go near the WS. That cat was his favorite. When he became a WS, the cat noticed a changed in scent and she refused to have anything t/d with him. Of course it hurt him but even that little cat could tell the differnce.

Do NOT underestimate what your children can do to help bring your H back and send the WS packing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Keep posting. Make sure you complete your plan A and keep moving forward.

take care,
L.

Thank you! I'm still not sure that I "get" part of the whole, LOL!

I can say that I'm at peace these days, enjoying life...not feeling judged by others in my mind...of course, that was me judging myself all along anyway...

O-Thank you for your kind words, I plan to continue to give back as long as I can! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Orchid,

I was also very shocked to see your thread locked. My only guess is that because of complaints <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.....the mods didn't want it to detereorate or take up anymore energy from the board. It seemed to me like there were some worthwhile discussions going on when it was locked....but I understand the desire the mods have to keep the forum running smoothly. Sometimes controversy is a good thing....but I agree that there have been enough discussions about style and they go nowhere.


Did you really think I was "wondering" about your intent when I asked that question? My question about your intent....was rhetorical, and only meant to highlight the fact that *I* wasn't the author of the thread. I never thought your intent was to do anything but to raise an interesting discussion, but when my intent was questioned.....I asked if yours was too since you opened the discussion. I had no interest in discussing "style" yet again *ugh*.....but because the discussion happened to be about 2x4's, which can certainly be an "element" of style....it was very easy for people to jump to conclusions. I'm not sure if 2x4s CAN be discussed without the discussion "bordering" on "style".....even if that's not the main point. I can understand why people might assume "here we go again".....and then....that's where it went again.


Don't you think people realize this? I do. I said on your thread that the kind of 2x4 you described I could fully embrace. Because there are some kinds of 2x4s that I can't embrace.....doesn't mean I want things "packaged" with pretty words and patronizing. It's not an either/or discussion. People can like 2x4s "to a degree". They can like the unembelished searing truths....with a few reservations. Truth is very powerful....and I just don't think it needs as much "flourishment" as is sometimes supplied.


Wow....this really bothers me too.....when I spend energy trying to help somebody who isn't serious about wanting help at all. There was a little gal named seksiebunny (should have tipped people off) that showed up on EN last week.....and I saw lots of people try to help....but of course she didn't really want help.


I don't think "causing suffering" is the intent either. Since change is painful sometimes....there's no way to prevent the suffering that this process can produce. However, I've seen instances where more pain is applied than I feel comfortable with. I don't expect others to have the same threshold....it's a personal thing. I also don't think that caring WORDS....are necessarily about care. I've seen blunt words that communicate care....and caring words that communicate hate. So this isn't about choosing loving words....it's the actual purpose that is important. Sometimes real care involves blunt language....but there's no denying that there's not a whole lot of room between really blunt language and verbal abuse at times. Discomfort creates change....too much of it....can just create damage or confusion.


I'm not sure who you're referring to because I saw very balanced answers on your thread and lots of good explanations.....people who saw the value in 2x4s (as you described them), but some reservations too.


I'm sad that this is your perception of what people were saying.

[color:" red"] I think 2x4s are like medicine....at the right dosage....they are healing and helpful, but an overdose isn't helpful at all. Not being "doctors", none of us can say for certain what that "right" dose is....and it's not the same for everyone.[/color]


I really thought some things were being understood by both sides just about the time it got locked.....but maybe that's why it was locked....it was a good time to shut things down while the "heat" had somewhat subsided.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

*editted for grammar and color

Good morning Orchid,

Thank you for your wisdom. My boys 17 1/2 and 14 are the ones who discovered the affair and confronted my WH. They are absolutely blown away that WH would leave the house and not stay to work on our M. They are so clear on what is right and wrong here, and yet deep in their recesses I know they have wanted him to come home all along.

My WH can't see passed what he wants. When he left he said that he was tired of putting other people first and he wanted to put himself first. Somehow throughout this whole mess he has put himself in the victim role as someone who is learning how to be alone and learning that he is going to survive through this.

I guess what I am afraid of is, that my WH's actions will become ok with my kids and then I will really lose my WH. I am working on trusting G-d, but somehow it just helps to get the feelings out so they aren't so powerful.

My WH is so passive-agressive, manipulating and controlling. He talks a good talk, but when it comes to substance, well that's a different story.

What absolutely floors me is his ability to avoid reality, avoid responsibility, and be ok with what he is doing. It's also scarier having him living with her although that is a chaotic and sick enviroment.

There is a little smile inside of me from last night. He was online and for the first time he contacted me in real time. For the most part I have been giving him little information about the boys, only when prompted. Yesterday for some reason I shared with him a little of what was going on.

I know that he was miserably hot in that one bedroom apt, and he asked me how it was here. I told him it was kinda nice and I needed to thank G-d for that. I also told him about our youngest son having a girlfriend and see him kiss her.

Orchid - do you think it's best to keep him informed or not? He misses his boys so much. But he won't come home to be with them. Is there anyway to understand this.

I also believe that deep down he needs to know that I have changed. When he isn't at home how can my actions show him how much I have changed and that we could have an incredible life if he would just give us a chance.

Thank you for taking time to read and respond. I really value your input and wisdom.

SG

This is interesting, and I am starting to see how too much, is well just too much.

For me, I can not stand subliminal. I don't trust subliminal. I need people to say it like it is.

There are a couple of posters who I don't trust anything that comes out of their mouth. What they say seems to always be alluding to something just under the surface but they don't come right out and say it. It's almost like a daguar cloaked in honey.

It's a trust issue with me. I really need people to speak their true thoughts, bad or good, and in their own style. I respect someone who is true to themselves by always being their real, authentic selves. I can respect that even when they are very opposite to me.

Orchid,

When I first came here a couple of posters got in fights on my thread. They had differing opinions of my sitch. It was very uncomfortable for me and I almost left.

We need to remember this while on another's thread and I am guilty of this even though I know how much it bothered me.

Threads like these which are started to discuss issues are a very good place to argue, if it is needed, as it lessons the need to do it on posters personal sitch theads. And it happens without these types of threads as tensions build.

I felt the same way at one point...FOR ME, I didn't even want to check my thread during that time!

Thank you for mentioning this...I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who felt this way...

Please understand Orchid I had NO problem with your topic, your thread, your posts.

Unfortunately the thread turned into a battle ground once again in an attempt to change certain posting styles.

I have no problem with members disagreeing, disputing, offering other solutions. I DO have a problem with some calling out certain members by name and copying & pasting quotes as negative examples. That only causes hurt feelings and a defensive reaction resulting in forum wars.

Your posts are always thought provoking and helpful. Thank you Orchid.

I had a post ready to go and the site went poof.

What I wanted to say is that while I don't think I've ever had a full-blown 2x4, I have had some blunt advice. I appreciate it.

We need to hear what we NEED to hear, not what we *want* to hear. There's a difference.

Thanks to all who help others based on their own experiences - this place has been a Godsend to me.

JinGA

Hi Orchid ~ your thread was a good one and I think some excellent points were made.

In the 6 years I have been here, I have seen maybe 3 or 4 people who's intent was clearly to harm others.

People are here to get help or offer help, or some of both.

I really thought what weaver said was right on point:


Yes, yes and yes! For me, people MUST speak directly and honestly.

Every single one of us NEEDED the truth when it came to our spouse's fidelity. Why should it be any different for sorting through the aftermath - including the personal issues that each of us contributed to the problem?

The truth may hurt, but it is crucial for any kind of recovery from such devastating trauma.

weaver also said:


This is what I think is causing the majority of problems on the forums currently.

In my opinion, it would be helpful if people could simply offer their individual encouragement, strength and hope, and take the discussion of the concepts to seperate threads, where it does not become a fight about any single individual.

The trend of "protecting" other posters is I think the most damaging trend I've seen in awhile, and where most of the enabling occurs.

In my situation, had someone tried to protect me from the people in my life who told me straight up what I didn't want to hear...I might not have had to listen.

My life would be so much poorer as a result.

This is how I feel about the 2x4 and I would NOT have changed them one bit when I got them...it was having someone speak the truth even when I didn't want to hear it but NEEDED IT!

I'm grateful for my time here...it was great knowing that it was being given out of care and concern...it was hard to stomach at time but the value was priceless!


I think that is an excellent idea!

I just want to say that I appreciate the help that evryone has given me, and I hope that I have acknowledged everyone appropriately. The trouble that I am having is keeping up with all of the threads!!! When I log on, there are so many, and being new, I can't remember which ones I have joined in on and which ones I haven't. Then I have to go back and read and reread to figure it out. And those threads with hundreds of replies - well how do you track those??

If anyone has a Thread Management 101 course, I would appreciate a lesson. Maybe I just need to be around a few months longer, get to know that names and situations before I can be a better contributor.

But anyway, thanks to all, and if I didn't reply it was because I was lost in all of the thread tape.....

Orchid--

See what we can do when left to ourselves for even one afternoon? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

BTW, I have gotten a few MB 2x4's but my favorites are the one's I would call "a bop on the head by a fry pan." Thanks to JL and TR for those! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />



--CJ