ww called this morning to talk to dd. it seems she really wanted to talk to me too. she seems pretty lonely and said she misses talking with me. i guess she is going to stay with one of her girl friends for a couple of months before getting an apartment. she says she is really confused and doesn't want to be put into a box if she were to come home. i told her i was wrong to hold affair #1 over her head for so long but now would worry #3 would come along. she also talked to one of our friends in favor of our marriage for a while last night on the phone. not sure where they went. she said it was hard for her to not come to me when she was raped and i told her how hard it was for me not to be able to be there support her. and that was when i really realized things were done between us. bad choice of words but certainly a wakeup call to me.

i don't know if i should be friends with her and plan a it, or go dark in plan b and let her feel nothing from me. she keeps calling om #2 a friend and not boyfriend. i know, typical ww speak.

If I were in your position, I believe I would go to Plan B with a lovely letter inviting her to your warm, safe home if she will ensure NC and work on the M.

I would do this before she gets and apartment so she can choose to come back easily.

thanks grindnfool - that's cause where i'm leaning i think. especially she told me that om #2 isn't available all the time like i was - it's a new change for her to get used to. not fair for her to only call me when she's lonely from him. she also confirmed it is a sexual relationship <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> any other comments from anyone?

more talking these last few days. like a lot. hours and hours on the phone. she is really pleased seeing growth in me as a person. she's also kinda happy being single learning new stuff. wants to keep things as they our for a couple of months. i think i let my impatience seap out some. i know i don't want to appear needy but think i did. kinda makes me mad for me to be growing thru pain and hurt and her growing thru fun (new friends, parties, sex with om when it infrequently occurs). she almost asked me to drive down and visit her last night but she didn't want to cheat on the om. everything is so twisted and confusing! i pray for wisdom from God but not sure what i'm hearing.

Not really ASH, she is cake eating. Getting certain needs met by you, having you hanging on while out living it up with OM. I think you should consider plan B at this point, but will wait on what others say,.

Plan B

I agree but I'm certainly not an expert.

well i saw ww for the first time since dday #2 last night. more of the same talk, she is afraid to give up what little she has with om #2 as she doesn't trust me to meet her ENs. well she knows i meet them, and meet them well but my problem is my LBing ruins all the gains. she called this morning too and we had great talking. she even talked about our future together and what we should do differently if she came home. i let resentment from affair #1, prevent us from recovering as much as possible. i own that and feel affair #2 is more my fault than even #1. also somehow i feel my resentment gone and a different person. however i think as affair #2 continues, it may come back and that makes me upset that things are different now. i was so over her and then she started calling a few days ago and i guess i got my hopes up too high and wanted results too quickly.
i ended the phone call on a bad note due to that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

OK...when a currently wayward spouse tells you:

"she even talked about our future together and what we should do differently if she came home. i let resentment from affair #1, prevent us from recovering as much as possible."

She's trying to get out of actually recovering the marriage from that event. She's trying to avoid taking any responsibility for her affair. That's NOT going to work.

You can promise her that you CAN recover from the damage of that affair, and that it won't be held over her head for the rest of the marriage...as long as she also takes the steps needed to make sure that another affair won't ever happen again, and understands that it normally takes a marriage AT LEAST two years to recover from infidelity.

On the constant LB's...that's making you your own worst enemy anymore. If you don't get a handle on this, your marriage stands NO CHANCE of recovery. Time to step up and STOP REACTING, and START ACTING ACCORDING TO YOUR PLAN!!!

If you can't do that...you may as well save yourself time and heartache and file for D now. The choice is really up to you.

the part of resentment is all me what i said. we were high school sweethearts and were virgins when we met. i was devasted that someone else came into the picture. i guess now with om#2 and the rape, that seems trivial compared to love i feel for her. i'm able to let the resentment go now. she does have problems and affairs aren't good solutions. i don't have a plan. i'm like trapped between a and b.

Then pick one and do it. Waffling back and forth will get you nowhere.

i think it's over. time for plan c.

Well, if you refuse to develop a battle plan and stick to it, then of course its over. You should expect no less.

Why do YOU say its over?

BTW...plan D means divorce. Plan B means seperate from her to let reality sink in and save some of your love for her.

Not sure what you mean by plan C.

yeah i meant d, sorry. not really thinking straight. i say it's over cause i feel drained. when she said a few days ago that she wanted to be friends in case we realized we loved each other and wanted to get back together she today said she meant like years down the road. i guess i got my hopes up too much especially when she said stuff like i'm not ready to come home _yet_ or how she talked about how life could be if she did come home.

i feel i have no energy. she's gonna get separation which will give her lots of money and she won't need me anymore. i guess i can plan b it, but i no longer feel confident in its success.

OK...so do you REALLY want to try to save your marriage? Really?

If so, you need to man up and be prepared to FIGHT for it. That doesn't mean argue with your wife. It DOES mean that you need to start working HARD to do the RIGHT things, stick to your plan, and actually do the things you need to do in order to give your marriage a fighting chance.

Here's the deal. You remind me of my wife when she was wayward. She told our first MC that she wasn't willing to make a decision to work on our marriage right away. She wanted to "wait a while", and see how things were down the road. THEN she'd 'make up her mind'. Our MC told her to think about it. You don't "want a house" and then suddenly find a house built for you a few months later. You make a choice to BUILD a house. Then you WORK on it...and then you find that you've got a house once that work is done.

But it all starts with making a CHOICE to do something first.

I really feel like you haven't made a choice to take any kind of action here. You've 'sorta' done plan A...now thinking about plan "something".

Have you really, I mean REALLY...sat down, taken a look at plan A, figured out how it works, how it can help you to end the affair and possibly 'win' your wife back? Have you read through the material here? Understood WHY it works, and thought about how to apply it to your own situation? I mean really spent some time on it?

Have you SERIOUSLY sat down, thought about what would help you win your wife back, and taken actions along those lines? Have you written your plan down? Identified her emotional needs, and then clearly come up with actions to meet them? Read up on what the lovebusters are, identified the ones you're most guilty of, and taken action to prevent doing them in the future? Sat down, identified all the 'important people' in WW's life and figured out how to expose to them and get them to actively work WITH you to help rebuild your marriage?

If your answer to all of these questions is a resounding YES, with no doubt at all, then you've done plan A. And maybe...MAYBE then you consider plan B.

If you answered no to any one of these...or couldn't answer them with a FIRM YES...then you haven't done plan A. That means plan B WILL FAIL...you may as well skip it and go straight to plan D. Because you've not actively done anything to make your wife feel the loss of you in her life when you go to plan B.

Seriously...if you just flail around all over the place with no plan...you will FAIL. Your marriage is OVER.

Quit sitting around feeling sorry for yourself. Get off your butt and fight back. Or save yourself time and heartache and file. Its your marriage, its your choice. Recovering a marriage from infidelity is HARD, PAINFUL WORK. If you're not willing to bust your butt and do it, then you're already done.

I'm not telling you to do anything I haven't been through myself. I didn't know the "official" plan A and B and all...but I still realized I had to do SOMETHING, or my marriage was over. And what I did was so close to plan A that it freaked me out the first time I came here.

Alright...I'm done. Now, make your choice, and start posting your real PLAN here for help if you like. Or give up. Your call.

i understand that weariness, trust me i do.
i think at this point you should ask yourself a few things.

first off, do you WANT her back? she has had 2 affairs all ready. what makes you think she will stop there? any of us deserves better than that. i have btdt with a muliple cheater, and if she doesn't put in the effort it will NOT get any better.

secondly, she says "like maybe years down the road" wtf? and you are supposed to sit around and wait for her to be ready years from now? i don't think so. i would hope that is not your plan. give me a break. i love how the waywards talk, like they are such a prize we are going to just sit around and wait and wait for them. i would do plan b all the way. don't decide divorce hastily but you need to protect yourself from this waffler. and it will stop your waffling too.

get your things in order and protect yourself and your child. then move on with your life. plan b can be absolute bliss when you do not have to deal with the craziness anymore. take yourself out of it. she is playing games. she either wants the marriage or she doesn't, you can't have it both ways. goes forever without calling you then she does and you are reduced to feeling messed up again. don't give her that opporunity. plan b, get stronger, get your things in order. and don't take her back until she is no longer having any affairs with anyone and until she is good and ready to commit 100% to the marriage. if you don't have contact with her that will stop your lb's as well.

just my 2 cents.

mlhb

thanks for the replies. i read them yesterday but wanted to mull them over. i believe plan a has run its course. i know i didn't do a perfect plan a but i did put in a lot of effort. regards to exposure, the only people who have any influence over her encourage her behavior and even contacted the OM after one week of NC on her behalf. she has shut her parents and former best friend out of her life. i understand that she needs an incentive to return home. i believe her missing me, her former best friend, might be the only one. i guess that is possibly accomplished through plan b.

my ww has also turned her back on her beliefs she has held her whole life and not just rebelling against the marriage and i've realized there is more to it than just another affair.

i will call my lawyer to tweak the seperation agreement again and get that official. i will not press for a divorce and in ny, she'll have to wait one year after seperation to file. during this time, i will plan b it.

i think plan b will make me feel better. now that i've decided on it, i already feel better. even styled my hair this morning for the first time since she left. i've also decided to go away for the weekend to maine with family including dd and do my best to continue healing.

i think the only way you are going to be able to heal and get stronger is through plan b.

and that sep agreement is very imporatant to secure your finances, etc. protect you and your dd.

trust me, btdt, and know all about ny state law!

either way, you will be fine. you will get through either way.

take care of YOU right now.

mlhb

Realize that your wife's change in 'beliefs' is also a direct result of her choice to have an affair.

My wife went through the same thing.

She really strayed from God at that time. Of course, I got closer as a result...go figure. But she knew that she was wrong...that God didnt approve of what she was doing. So she couldn't be close to Him while she was getting closer to someone outside of her marriage, could she?

Hang in there. Go to plan B if you feel that its your only option at this point. But I do caution you...going to plan B after anything less than a stellar plan A is more likely to lead you to plan D than recovery.

thanks for the encouragement. i really can picture myself being fine down the road, it's just hard to imagine or think about the journey.