Mrs. W... I do not think she is garden variety...just as you and many others didn't feel like mine was garden variety. I think it takes a special breed to have her H come over and help the OM do some work.

I do not believe in M at all costs like some others around here. I believe this woman is a danger to her children and they need their dad to protect them from her.

I don't need you or anyone else telling me what to post or that I should take a break. You are entitled to your opinion...and you stated it. I did the same. IMHO... and I have seen this before on this board... you and some others making a poster think that a particular situation is NOT hopeless has been harmful to them and the children involved IMO, it prolonged the inevitable....and they have come back and thanked me for the stand I took even when I was getting slammed by you and some of the regulars here. There is a part of my signature line that was from the poster that I have in mind.

IMHO...too many people are advised to try and save very destructive situations that would be better off ended. I do not believe...and perhpas you are just not able to see the truth here... that all WS are a garden variety... I look at each situation as unique... and offer advice based on that. If that doesn't meet with your standards for posting here... so be it.... it frankly is no longer my business what you or others think of my posting style.

And yes, I agree it is his choice...but based on my experience both personally and on these boards, I am giving him some things to consider.

MEDC

I don't think this is true at all MEDC...The board is full of WSs that have tried to have the OP and the BS meet...I was guilty of that myself...Thank God that it never came to pass, but as a WS, there isn't much I wouldn't have done...That is the nature of a WS afterall...

Oh and actually I don't know all that much about your sitch MEDC and never commented on your threads regarding it as I recall...I have no idea if your Wayward Girlfriend was garden variety or not...


Nor do I MEDC, but this situation has NOT come to the point of no return yet, not by a long shot...Again, it is ultimately the choice of Wibbler, but it most certainly is possible that his WW could repent, have and show deep remorse and move on to recovery...


Well MEDC it is really cool that you seem to have a crystal ball and just KNOW which marriages are and are not capable of recovering...I personally do not have one, but I can state for a FACT that what his WW is doing is not much different than myself or any of the others here...WS behavior is abhorable no matter how you slice it, and yet many DO come back from the deep recesses of evil, repent and go on to have recovered fulfilling marriages...

Oh and correct me if I am wrong, but the poster that you quote in your signature line is no longer around here, so we don't actually know the outcome of her situation or which advice fit the bill most appropriately, do we?

I sure am glad that you or others doling out the kind of advice that you are here, weren't Mr. W's advisors a couple of years back...We are thrilled that we remained married and I know that our DD is too...

As for the children...I believe that I have been VERY clear about how Wibbler should protect them from his WW...I have been on that side of the fence afterall and can definitely attest to the danger there and have certainly given advice pertinent to that...


This has NOTHING at all to do with posting STYLE, but rather posting ANTI MB advice...VERY EARLY in a situation I might add...Wibbler has presumably come here hoping to learn about the MARRIAGE BUILDERS plans to try and save his marriage which most certainly is NOT out of the realm of possibility...It ain't even close to being hopeless MEDC...For you to tell him otherwise is not really all that helpful...Unless and until he wants to walk away, the MARRIAGE BUILDERS advice IS Plan A and you should know that by now...


Wibbler's a smart guy...I'm pretty sure that he is aware that he has the choice to walk away MEDC, he wouldn't need MB to tell him that...Giving him that as something to consider is just a statement from the OBVIOUS DEPT and is an insult to his intelligence...The fact is, he is HERE at MB seeking MB advice...Don't cha think that is what he should be provided with? I certainly do...

Mrs. W

Mrs. W... Dr. harley created this forum... not you. He is aware that people will have different opinions on a forum... don't cha think.

As far as that poster... nope, haven't seen her in a while... nor have I seen a few others where we clashed on advice given. All I know is that the posters came back to me and told me that they appreciated my advice and manner.

Wibbler is a smart guy and MB is not telling him that Mrs W... I was... and you are not MB either....if he is so smart as you give him credit for...then he can weigh the opinions given and make the choice for himself. I don't believe I was posting anti MB advice... i believe I was posting pro child and accurate advice which would result in the end of a marriage.... and in this case, that would be a good thing IMO.

Once again, I will tell you... your view of my posts is none of my business. If you acted in the same way with Mr W I would have given him the same advice. But what Wibbler has posted is NOT what I have seen to be the norm around here...and I am a relatively bright guy Mrs W... I have read this site and have a good understanding of things that are not the norm.... no matter what you would or wouldn't have done.

Don't cha think?

This quote from Wibbler along with her having her H come over to help the OM with something puts this in a different league for me...most of the WS I have seen here would NEVER have sunk to this level. Sleeping in the same room with her OM and her kids. That to me is the end of the road...no reason for recovery with this type of woman. This is outright child abuse. Frankly, I don't remember any woman or man on this site that has ever done something like this. And I think any that have deserve to lose their children...for good.

Actually MEDC the forums here are the "baby" of Steve Harley, not Dr. Harley...Dr. Harley does answer questions in the private section here however, and I can tell you that I feel very blessed to have access to that...It is true that Dr. Harley also does not think marriages should be saved at any cost, but he DOES recommend at least TRYING using the MB plans for at least a few months, when the BS doesn't wish to exercise their right to walk away right then...He recommends this ESPECIALLY when there are children involved...

And no I am not MB, but I DO support and strongly adhere to the principles outlined here AND am in a recovered marriage thanks to this place...I've been to an MB Weekend and Mr. W and I do the lessons assigned there...I'm no schmuck when it comes to this stuff either...These plans WORK and Wibbler's marriage has a chance by using them...All is NOT lost in his situation...The OM is a single youngster who will likely tuck tail and run if Wibbler uses a little finesse...And when that happens, Mrs. Wibbler is gonna need a soft place to fall-And YES, I know how absurd it sounds that a BS should have to comfort an entitled, broken WS, when the BS is actually the VICTIM in all of this, but that is what happens in the intial stages of a recovery, like it or not...I would love to see this family survive, wouldn't you MEDC? To me it seems pretty obvious that the BEST CASE SCENARIO is for Mr. & Mrs. Wibbler to remain married and parent those precious children together, as God intended it to be...

Giving Wibbler the advice to "cut bait" because his WW is somehow worse than others (WHICH SHE IS NOT), is nothing that he can't get from about 99% of society...He comes here to hear a different message I would guess...

So MEDC, we disagree...It's not the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last...It's not up to either of us really, this is about Wibbler's choice-At this point though it does seem that he's made at least his initial choice in that he is HERE at MB trying to learn the MB Program...I would just like to remind you though that the sign on the door here says MARRIAGE BUILDERS and this place IS intended to be a learning tool about MARRIAGE BUILDERS...That only makes sense afterall...


Mrs. W

I too think this is HORRIBLE, and have advised Wibbler to protect his children with every fiber of his being...

This still does NOT mean that Wibbler's wife can't CHANGE and become a FWS MEDC...I did some of the most HEINOUS things EVER while in my affair, but I have repented and come out on the other side, REDEEMED and FORGIVEN...Mr. W and I are happily married now and raising our DD TOGETHER...Thanks be to Marriage Builders and the Grace of God...

Mrs. W

Mrs. W... thanks for the reminder...now the next time you feel inclined to "remind" me... remember that I have a good memory and don't need the reminder, no matter your take on my views.

And, no, I do not agree that this marriage would be better off saved. I think those kids would be well served to get away from their mother and be raised by their loving father. And despite your attempts to paint her as the norm... she is not....not even for a WS. So what to you seems like the best case scenario, I would see as the worst case scenario.... IMHO, unless SHE turns her life around, on her own since dad will be busy raising the children... and HE decides to then take her back, I think their staying together is not a good option.

And MEDC, contrary to what you might think, the above quote IS Anti-MB advice given by YOU...No doubt about it...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

MEDC...Buy a clue dude...Go read about the effects of divorce on children...And for crying outloud just read a couple of stories around here to VERIFY that ALL WSs do really evil crap...Nature of the beast...

Seriously, you and reality ought to get together and straighten out your differences...Perhaps pound out a treaty...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

would it be anti MB if I told a man to divorce his wife after she allowed someone to molest them??? Well, yes, technically I guess it would be! But it would be called for, wouldn't it??? I think it is also called for in this case. My opinion.... doesn't matter to me if you agree or not.

Mrs. W.... if you are too blind too see the facts, that is not my concern. Yes, they all do evil crap...but I have NEVER seen one that sleeps with the OM and the kids in the same room. Even for a WS that is off the charts.
If you did those things and are feeling personally attacked, I am sorry...but my mind isn't ever going to change on these facts.
And I have read about divorce and kids... I have posted more than a few articles on here that I find credible regarding that very topic. So, you get a clue Mrs. W. I venture a guess that I am a bit more knowledgable about this stuff with children. I lived through it... my son went through it... I work with kids that have dealt with it...and I have read up on it.... I think i have a good handle.

To our knowledge these children have not been molested MEDC, so this is a ridiculous line of reasoning...

I agree that IF Mrs. Wibbler has the children sleeping in the same room with OM that that is very bad-sick, twisted and wrong no doubt...But we don't KNOW that for a fact, and neither does Wibbler at last check...He said he PRESUMED, but it could be that the children slept in the family room...We simply don't know...At any rate, I, as well as others, have advised him not to let his children be around OM...Wibbler himself has said that he is taking the babies 7 days a week now...Good for him! That is what is right!

I believe it is best for Wibbler to do all that he can to protect his children AND bust up this affair-which would be in their best interests...When that happens and NC is established, his WW could very well become a FWW and a good mother again to those babies-EVEN if Wibbler and she divorce-which I certainly hope won't be the outcome...And YES, that IS the best case scenario MEDC...I guarantee you that those kids will someday think so...

Why do you suppose it is that God made it so that it took TWO parents to conceive children? Do you think it might be possible that He did that because He also thinks that the best case scenario is for children to be raised by BOTH parents?

Mrs. W

MrsW,

It's best just to use the ignore feature than to keep wasting your valuable time.

Hmmm... why did God do that... well, in the animal kingdom...where two are needed to make a child....sometimes the father will eat the young...why do you suppose he put instincts in the mother to protect the child???

If the mother did not do as Wibbler has said...then my view would change with the facts of the case as presented.

And just because YOU see something as being best Mrs. W doesn't make it so... it means that is your opinion.

The line of reasoning was not ridiculous. I am sorry that you couldn't follow it though. It was meant to illustrate that MB is not the beginning and end of everything...even here. You just happen to have a htreshold that is different than mine when it comes to protecting the children. I don't need for them to be molested to step in... I would step in IF they were sleeping in the same room with mommy and the OM. That is my line in the sand....perhaps yours is the next line or maybe miles away...frankly, I really don't care. I am not so sure why you feel that you have a right to tell me that my line is wrong.

And don't make guarantees that you know nothing about. I know a lot of kids that wish their parents had split up sooner...that the responsible parent protected them from the harm inflicted by the evil one...I agree that it is best if she becomes a good mother again...but until that time...the only duty that dad has is to protect the children.

And my discussion with you regarding this topic has reached its end. We will agree to disagree.

No MEDC I did not do that...I have no problem telling you all that I did do either...I'm ashamed of it, but if it helps someone, then I will share...There IS hope, WSs CAN become FWSs...ADULTERY is EVIL in ALL ways MEDC...Here's a portion of what I did...I took our DD to a baseball game with OM and a lunch and I think that that was EVIL, EVIL, EVIL...I used family money towards the affair-LOTS of it-I had one ccrd bill that was $11,000 in one month and that was only ONE of my cards...I went and spent two weeks in a hotel with OM...I said HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE degrading things to Mr. W...I screamed at our DD...I abused Xanax...I totaled my Saab...The day that I left for two weeks I did so while our DD had a terrible virus with constant diarrhea and Mr. W had no choice but to take that poor precious child to work with him along with multiple changes of clothes...That still haunts me...And there was more that I'm not recounting right now...I WAS EVIL...All WSs are...But I have repented and Mrs. Wibbler can too...I'm sorry that you can't see that...

I understand that you've lived it...I've lived through WSness, come out on the other side and we've recovered our marriage, so I KNOW without a doubt that it IS possible...I also realize that divorce is possible...I'm not the one with tunnel vision here MEDC...

Mrs. W

I know whatcha mean Jim, but I think that sometimes this type of discourse can actually provide others with some valuable insight-MEDC's advice here is afterall the advice of the general public regarding infidelity...I think it's important that newbies and lurkers get to hear the other lesser known side of things...

I appreciate your sentiment though! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

guilty as charged Mrs W
I do have tunnle vision when it comes to protecting children...and I am damn proud of it too.
WS can change...yep. And even as evil as your stuff was... it does not come close to sleeping with om and children in the same room... IMO. If that is not yours, so be it. For some reason you feel compelled to change my thinking...it doesn't need changing. I am comfortable and happy with my thought process.
I also don't feel the need to change yours. You have a basis for your thoughts, I have my own. I think my epxeriences have shaped me to look at the facts. You feel the same way concerning yours. We can each present numerous studies that support our views...what it comes down to is tolerence for certain behaviors... your line is just in a different place than mine.

BTW... Mr. W is a great guy. He forgave you for all of that stuff...and you two have a great M.... I can tell you that I wouldn't have stayed married to you after some of that stuff. One is not right/wrong... just a different ability and desire to stay married after certain things. You two are blessed to have found one another. Both of you.

Well MEDC it isn't my goal to help a chimpanzee recover his marriage, so I won't worry about that...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


My opinion is backed by LOADS of professional research though...


MEDC, this is NOT the argument at all and you know it...I have emphatically stated that Wibbler's children should NOT be anywhere near this affair...And your attempt to make it seem that I wouldn't intervene until molestation occured is not only unsubstantiated but just plain galling...

The argument IS and always has been about whether or not Wibbler's WW can become a FWW and whether this marriage can be saved...And how that the best case scenario for the children is to be raised by two happily married parents...Pretty elementary stuff...Sorry if you were confused...





Well FINALLY...Sheesh...I wondered if you were ever gonna get this...


Yes, protection of the children should always be put front and center, but I have confidence in Wibbler and think he is capable of multitasking...He can Plan A AND Protect the children at the same time...It's done here constantly!


Well good MEDC...I hope that others have been helped by this...You really presented the same typical stuff that the general public does about infidelity and in doing so allowed me the opportunity to explain that with MB there is hope...That a recovered marriage is possible even when a WS seems long gone into evilness which is exactly the way I appeared two years ago...People can and do change...

Thanks for giving me this chance MEDC!

Mrs. W

P.S. Yanno, about that quote in your signature...I see no evidence that the poster was talking to you...As I recall I gave that poster some 2x4's myself...Hey, I'll bet she was talking about ME!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I'm beginning to think that Napolean had a MEDC complex! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I harbor no delusions that I will change your mind MEDC and that is not my goal...My goal is to let others know that a recovered marriage is possible using the MB Plans and Principles...I know it to be true...I very much support the Harleys and MB, because Mr. W, myself and our DD owe the rescue of our family to them...And so I will challenge anyone who I perceive to be posting Anti MB advice on this site, because I KNOW that MB can and does work and I wish for newbies and lurkers to get that side of things...


I agree that Mr. W is a great guy and I really appreciate your saying so...I completely understand that you wouldn't have chosen to be married to me if you were Mr. W...Mr. W himself sure wasn't obligated to...I am very grateful and blessed that he did...We both believe that we and our DD are best served by his decision...It is always the BS that gets to choose whether or not they stay married when adultery occurs...I completely get that...I am continually awed and humbled by both Mr. W's and God's amazing grace...

Mrs. W

Soooooo,

What happened to Wibbler?


Let's hope he's practicing the carrot and the STICK of Plan A.

SB