ForeverHers,
Thank you for your post. Wow. I'd like to here more from you.

Forgivness.
Funny you shoud mention that. The pastor gave a sermon this week about that. Said what you said about remorse, forgiveness, etc. Her not "Owning Her Own S**it" has been the key factor in the D-procedings.

Unevenly Yoked? You betcha. Counselor (a Pastor) kept telling me, starting about a year ago, that I can do all that it takes to reconcile, reach out, all the stuff we know to do, but if she don't wanna participate, then there is nothing I can do.

He tried to talk to her about absoulutes. She didn't believe in them. She has no use for God. Started to give me grief about going to church. Adamently opposed to the concepts of Love Bank, His Needs Her Needs, etc. She could really be unreasonable, stubborn and kinda nasty in couseling. Even insulted me in counseling.

She kept saying that our situatuin was unique, that those ideas didn't apply.

I'd talked with the OM BS about this. Told her about my wife saying that our situation was so unique etc. "Yeah, right" she said.

It's kinda weird when the OM and his BS are helping you thru this too. Strange.

I'd like to hear your thought on "exposure". What is too much? Who to tell? etc.

Just looked at court cases online, saw my divorce case. Interesting.

OK. I was talking with a coworker last nite about my sitch and work. He's another that helped me thru this.
We talked a bit about our students, I'm an instructor. Specifically students who come from a specific socioeconomic backgroud. Outside of work, I work within this socioeconomic environment. It's dysfunctional to say the least.
No dad's, no money, shootings, gangs, etc. And you know what I'm talking about.
I've been hammered at work because of these kids having issues with me. Interesting, as I grew up, to a certain degree although not entirely, just like them, minus the gangs and jail and shootings. But maybe I get hammered cause I know where they come from. Cause I will confront them. I will challange thier thought processes, thier antisocial, behavior, etc. Their Expectations.
In the end, most of these guys turnaround. And I think it's because, for most of them, it's the first time someone has challenged them to do the right thing, to believe in them, to teach them to believe in themselves, to let them know that they are worth something.
I'm telling you this because this is where I think my wife's head, spirit, attitude whatever is also.
She's never had someone believe in her, love her, stick out 15 years of ****** with her. That again is what I mean by expectations and her upbringing. These concepts are friggin' alien to her environment. They might say it, but they don't believe it. Too many generations of, for a lack of better words, of failure.
Why hate me?
Cause my sorry a*ss fell into the same trap. That, I think is why she hates me. Her knight in shining armor became just like everybody else she ever knew. I didn't set boundaries, I didn't protect her, I wasn't there for her, I was to busy making a career, I got fat, I got weak, etc. I failed her. (Come on girls, what do you think of that? Is that maybe part of the love that can be lost for your guy?)
Yup, I failed her. I became a pansy just like all the other men who have ever been in her life, ex BF, dad, g'pa, brothers, etc.
Believe you me, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't feel that pain, that I can't but hate(?) myself for failing my Eve, my ezer kenegdo.

Friends:
A book list I gave to another in my shoes.
Check it out:
"Hope for the Seperated" - Gary Chapman
"Every Woman's Desire" - Stephen Arterburn
Anything written by Gary Smalley
"Bold Love" - Dan Allender
"Captivating" - John and Stasi Eldredge.
"Wild at Heart" - John Eldredge.
"It's (Mostly) His Fault" - Robert Alter.
Any of Harley's stuff:
MarriageBuilders.com
And of course "Divorce Remedy".

He mentioned a lot about his wife's "Lying".
I'm in the same boat. At this point in time, I believe nothing that she says.
I'd like to hear others view on lying.
I think it's a really real issue. I mentioned to OM BS my wife's "character flaw", including lying, lack of empathy, etc. thru this (She is a doctor), and she said that this is beyond "Character Flaw". Something to think about? Thoughts?

I honest to God just woke up from a nitemare where my kid was lying to me, started to defend his lies, and justify them and lie more to cover them up.
(Yes I know, I don't have a boy, I have girls, dreams are whack like that). He was acting just like his Mom including the lies of omission.
In this dream I was having dinner with two couples I hadn't seen or talked to in long time and told them as to why I had been scarce for the last couple year and a half. And I told the about this f**king h**ll with my wife.
My kid was mad at me cause I started getting angry, and tried to tell him a parable about lying using the metaphor of a little girl (His Mom). That was a crazy dream.
Some where I started running away or escaping but this little prickly rodent was chasing me. WTF.

I'm worried about my kids. They are now the ones getting f**cked over in this nitemare.
Just spent about an hour listening to them, hearing their concerns. They are so in the dark about what their mom has done. They really don't like the chaos that is living next door to us (wife's sisters family very dysfunctional as I've mentioned in these posts).
Their mom, my wife, seems to be so deluded. I kinda am getting most always just repulsed by her. She's just such a f**ck up.
Kids lock the door to keep SIL family, especially niece out of the house. They take our food, act and come and go as it's their house. Kids are concerned with those boundaries. Wife berates them for locking the door.
1 week. Freedom. Kids and I. Kid mentioned me locking mom out (Jul-Aug'06). Said mom said that I thought she was at a party and that's why I locked her out. So unfair to kid (Mom was out f**cking/around with dude).
I've not said a bad word about her to kids. Wife seems to be saying to kids that divorce will make everyone "happier". I'm starting to wonder if she's just nuts.
Kids saying that they have issue with SIL boyfriend and his, girlfriends, drinking, lack of responsibility etc. Same things that their mom has been doing. It feels so crushing, that they are also describing their mom's behaviors.
This just f**cking sux !!!
Please, thoughts?

Thank all of you for your posts. You've been tremendously helpful !!!
I'm starting to feel really disgusted now as I realize more and more how awfully this woman (my wife) has treated me. And our children.
All the deceit, all the lies, all the omission, the attitude, the disrespect, disdain, contempt, lack of empathy etc. It's really starting to gross me the f**ck out.
I'm starting to understand what you mean by her still "Wayward Wife" mentality. Her addiction.
I think I'm understanding that if it's not an affair, it's alcohol, or drugs, whatever. Or all.
We had passion twice since this mess. Both times after I performed at a club, she was drunk, it was secretive. Kinda like an affair. I've been f**cking played.
I want to puke. This f**cking sux.
Thanks again.

I'm having a day here. This is a rant/pity party/ambivalence. You are forewarned. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Talked to a mutual friend of WS and I about my sitch. I kinda get bothered when I feel that people don't seem to sense the gravity of what has happened. I feel that they make excuses when they say things like "You were growing apart", "You will be better apart", etc. Those things don't make me feel good.
It feels like that they don't hold the WS accountable for what has happened. I kinda would think a friend would take a 2x4 upside a WS's head. Maybe not.
Ambivalence
And after reading so much and so much counseling such statements kinda sound deluded, as not to "condemn" someone, to let bygones be bygones.
This sounds very non-solutions oriented, very unMB, etc.
That attitude seems to me, I feel, to be "unhealthy". It really bothers me.
This has been the most unbelievably terrible thing I've ever lived thru. To have it trivialized like that, in my opinion, seems to be just as foggy as the WS fog.
But, sometimes it makes since. But I feel it only makes sense if you negate things like, nobility, love, faithfulness, accountability, responsibility, honor, integrity, and so on and so on. All the things we're to aspire too.
Why can't I just except that attitude? To be, what I understand to be, in a "Fog".

------------

Talked to the counselor today. I really needed that. It's the roller coaster thing. I guess I just feel very violated after this betrayal, D and so many years with this woman.
Am I wrong to feel that? Am I the one that has been the f**ckup thru out this?
When I DB, MB etc. I don't feel like the f**ckup. But hearing from the "world" sometimes, or my wife, I do. Maybe it's the mind games that they play?
My WS nonchalant attitude just f**cking kills me.
I'm feeling pretty [censored] about this right now. Just a dip in the old roller coaster.
Sometimes I feel like I'm doing the right things, and sometime I don't. (But mostly I do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ).
Tomorrow will be another day.
Thoughts?
Thanks guys and gals.

OK, my friends, tonight I need your support and opinions. There has been much talk on this board and others about my WS. These are pretty deep cutting suggestions. From what I understand, people seem to think that my wife has some very, very deep and serious issues that are way beyond the A and the M.
I'm OK right now. Please don't think I'm going bananas.
I've heard everything from BiPolar to BPD to HPD to sex issues to NPD, Jerry Springer, FOO, etc. Whewww...



WTF?


WTF?


WTF?



I don't know what to think other than what to think.

I talked to counselor again today mostly about other matters. A friend was over who has been talking to my wife. He says she just doesn't care. She'll do whatever it takes to keep me off her back so that she can see the kids. Imagine that. That attitude has been pointed out so many times too.

I've told two oldest and dearest friends who were there when I met her the story. I've told them details. I get the WTF response again. When I tell of the sex issue, both are guys, they looked at me like I was crazy. Same with the lying. Etc.

I'm OK. I'm detached, but the feelings of violation, and being used are really strong right now. It honest to God is making me sick to my stomach. I feel these really friggin' strongly right now. They are absolutely 10 bazillion times more disgusting feeling then the A. I can understand the A. But this is friggin' ridiculous. 15 f**cking years of this. And finally being aware of it.




WTF?


WTF?


WTF?



Wow, f**king wow.

I feel so f**cking violated and used right now. 15 friggin' years...

Bobelina,

I'm sorry for what you're going through. I pray that you'll make it through the pain of this and use it to help yourself grow. You are certainly being tested by fire now. Please focus a bit on your blessings, if you do, you will come out the "winner" in this. Your WW can win with you or she can go off and lose alone...it's her choice. It's also your choice whether you let this defeat you as a human being or if you start healing.

My prayers are with you.

OK. A couple more lines of BoBeLiNa bullpoopy and then I'm going to bed...
I'll be rambling...

I never was in touch with my feelings growing up and not until my nitemare did I get in touch with them. Mr Spock was my hero.

First counselor I saw I found those feelings. Made me start to cry. I NEVER cry. He helped me to realize how I was feeling about my M. Ouchy.

My main counselor taught me how to control myself around WS. I delearned sarcasm, angry outbursts, etc. I wasn't much of a user of this stuff anyways. He taught me to get most of it to zilch.

In Feb this year before exposure I was starting to feel the repressed feelings affect my health, hence exposure. Then for the first time (?) I really started to start feeling the anger and resentment, violation, being used, etc.
That was the hardest thing yet to contain. Especially if your supposed to be in R. But the hits from her kept coming. I tried to focus on the good, which there was a lot of (sort of ?, at least for her?). We were spending a lot of time together. Closer, but not really, as there were still gangs of things being hidden from me. Lack of honesty and openess and transparency from her. Good for her. Bad for me.

The icky feelings wouldn't go away. Then again she wasn't living by the:
http://survivinginfidelity.com/faq_ws.asp
She more or less refused too. She thought it was silly. Just like MC. If there wasn't one excuse there was a thousand.

For a little while she was "In love with me".

Then in May the FEELING again. Something ain't right. Get her to counselor in Jun and I hear AGAIN ILBINILWY. "Can't we just be friends".

Then the last conversation Jul 9 and D time.

I feel that this whole marriage was kinda a mirage. Why she would live like this for 15 or so years I don't know. I just don't know. Then I start posting and hear how messed up my life's been and hear about all these personality disorders and enabling and co-dependency and sex issues and etc and it being directly applied to my life. I'd been thinking I'd had a pretty good grip on understanding what had happened to WS and I and then these other dimensions are being discussed. Also the same time the counselor is letting me figure this out also. Just such a chapter. All at once from many sources including my confidants. I'm being unindated with these views. Even OM BS.

Overriding theme is that WS is REALLY messed up. It's really not the A or M or me or God or Money or sex or kids or time or this that and the other thing, it really is about HER... HER... HER... And it's even crazier than I would have ever thought. And I'm thinking, "Is this even freakin' possible?". "Am I really this stupid to have never seen this?". "What the h**ll is wrong with me?". "What the ****** is really going on here?".

I never ever thought of her as being messed up. Or a bad person. Or manipulative. Or controlling. Or condescending. I thought that that described me, as she had been telling me that about myself for years.

Thought of her in the most honorable ways. Thought of her as a better person then myself. A hero to me in some ways.

I don't know what to think but I think this view of her being "damaged" is spot on. But it's really, really hard to deal with. Really. It's really messed up. I'm really feeling like, wow, man. Just wow.

This just can't be happening. This just can't be true. Maybe that's why this has been so hard for me. I'm still not believing what's before my very eyes. And I guess I'm also afraid. Afraid that when I do see and believe, I will have dead feelings to her. Absolutely dead. The mother of my children, my wife, will be DEAD to me.

Anyways. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BringItOn,

Thank you. I agree. In the end I'll be fine. It's this process to get to "fine". It's as we all know really, really hard. Thank you for not slamming me.

I think sometimes people forget that a good vent is good for you. It cleanses you. People keep forgetting that we vent here so that we don't vent in real life.

Anyways, I'll be OK. I know I'll come out the "hero" and not the "victim".

Thank you again.
BoBeLiNa

I understand the vent part of all this. I can really relate to that. One thing I've always kept in mind, though, is that I'm glad I'm not in my WH shoes...I wouldn't like not being able to look myself honestly in the mirror. (He is getting much better though and working on it in his own way...I think).

I am done. She is dead to me.

I'm sad for you.

BringItOn,
Thank you. I think though... that I'm glad for me !!!

I hope you continue to grow and heal and that this whole ordeal makes you a stronger person. Please don't let bitterness overrun your life.

BringItOn,
Bitterness passes. I had two friendships go bad in my life. Eventually you lose the animosty and bitterness. It just goes away. And then pure detachment.
Eventually I'll be there with this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
BoB