One thing I've started doing while in plan A.

Every day, about the same time each day, I send him a text message. It says "I Luv U!!!!"
Nothing else & I don't call & don't receive any response but don't expect one. One time he texted back saying "you just think you do."

Is this a good thing to do during plan A? I'm not pushing for anything, not demanding a response & I don't mention it except to answer if he does respond. I just feel like I need to let him know every day that I still love him.

Any thoughts or suggestions????

It's fine to say this to him, but don't do it every day. It can add too much pressure on a WS just coming out of the fog. Don't talk too much about R, M or the A right now. Just have fun being togther and doing things together - 15 hours of alone time each week.

I know you want to tell him these things and you can, but later on into recovery.



He knows it - your still in the M and working to heal form his A. He knows you love him or you would be gone by now.


**hang in there and keep things light and fun. In time you will start to see your H come thru more and more****

Lost, it's usually a good idea to stay on one thread rather than start a different one every time you post.

That way everyone can read the progression of what you're doing. Otherwise any continuity is totally lost.

Do you have any idea what his top emotional needs are? Having that knowledge can help you better target your actions. People respond differently, so while one person might love the daily "I love yous" another might find it irritating. We often try to express our love to our spouse based on what *we* would like to receive. That error causes big problems in most marriages at one time or another.

So, what do you think are his top emotional needs?

I read your other thread about yesterday. Sounds very good. Don't get too hopeful, and continue what you are doing!

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll just let him know once or twice a week.

As for his emotional needs, not really sure. He hasn't really said anything. Well, except for the fog-babble when all this first started (we're in tune with each other, I never knew what good s*x was, she makes me feel good about myself, blah, blah, blah). All I really know for sure is his unhappiness with his job situation which it looks like he will take the job in Ft. Worth. And, I sense by what he says, his unhappiness with himself because of A & his job. The new job will be something he loves to do & did before until the plant closed. I may be way off base here, but in my neck of the woods, men seem to really identify strongly with their jobs. If they hate their job, they don't give it 100%; if they don't give 100%, they feel bad about themselves. He's never been one to give less than that to a job. Right now he admits he is doing as little as he can get by with & his attitude is so bad he will probably get fired. That is totally out of character for him. Also I've noticed that the more unhappy he is with a job situation, the more he brings it home instead of leaving it at the gate. This is based on past experience with him. May not be that way elsewhere. But since I live in the middle of the East Texas oilfield, pretty much every man I know is that way.

He is definitely not meeting any of my needs & I understand from here that's to be expected so I'm trying to be very patient. I'm hoping that the new job & being away from me during the week will help him to open up to me & let me know what his EN's are. I also hope he will miss me since he hasn't ever been gone from home longer than about a month & a half. We've not been away from each other long enough for him to miss me, though I have missed him terribly.

Again, any suggestions & advice are very much appreciated right now. Since I'm really just starting this plan A thing, I need all the help I can get. I think I may have been kinda sorta doing plan A without really knowing what it was. Now that I know, I'm really trying to follow it.
I have suggested to him that if we follow the plan here at MB I feel that we have a chance to work things out. He seems receptive so we'll see.

Often men's top needs are SF and admiration. Hmmmm, he never knew what good sex was? Maybe you need to dance on the table and swing from the chandelier.

While it may have been billowing out of fog, I think he probably was expressing his primary emotional needs.

Sex is incredibly important to husbands. I believe that many husbands are often going about in a sex-starved state a great deal of their married lives. (This isn't an absolute, since there are marriages where the wife has the higher sex drive and there are couples who are evenly matched sexually. ) I don't think wives realize just how much impact this issue has on their marriage.

Secondly, admiration is usually high up on a man's list of emotional needs. Sometimes we can slip into a habit of mentally rehashing our spouse's faults and shortcomings while failing to balance those with their positives. Done long enough, we end up seldom (if ever) expressing kind admiration to our spouse so most of what they hear from us is a litany of our unhappiness with them.

What do you think, could sex and admiration be important to him?

graplin,

You're probably very right. I know that due to my being on birth control pills (which was not for BC), my weight gain, & physical problems, that part of our life was suffering. We were tired alot, especially me. He had pushed me away many times over the past few years & I quit trying. Since all this hit last October, I am off the pills & am having the physical problems taken care of. No more pills & my desire for him has picked up. Not much good right now though. I'm having a hard time dealing with my physical needs. They are definitely not being met along with my EN's either. On the physical part, I'm at a loss as to what to do. I'm not being allowed to meet any needs right now, not even the ones I met before & during the A. He told me Monday that we were separated or pretty much. This because we are living together but he sleeps in the camper.

One thing I really need to know is: how do you know if NC has been broken? How do you tell if it has really started? And how do you know when withdrawal is over?

All the waffling is very stressful. Yesterday, I asked him where he was, because his time-line didn't jive with what I had heard. He accused me of being nosy, snooping, telling me that if he takes the new job there will be no contact between us for the 6 months of his probation period. None at all. I told him I was trying to trust him & he told me he knew I didn't trust him & didn't care if I did or not. How should I re-act to that?? I sent him a text message this morning (probably the wrong thing to do but did anyway) which said: "Do you know how much it hurts, having you everywhere except my bed, knowing you have no desire to be married to me? Knowing you don't plan on working things out & don't want my trust anymore? My heart has no protection while you're here." I've gotten no answer & I didn't expect one. So I haven't sent anymore messages nor have I called him. I hope he will stew on it. He read trueheart's letter to WS & said it could easily have been written by him. I asked if it had any impact & he said yes it did, some. I didn't ask for clarification on that. I'm so new at this even though this has been going on since October.

believer,
dancing on the table is something I did when I was younger, LOL. From what he has told me (& he hates it when I ask questions, saying I'm only hurting myself) the OW is pretty adventurous. They're first time was on the phone, she called him while he was on his way home from work saying she needed him to talk dirty to her while she took care of business. She actually told her husband, when she told him about the A, that my WH was better in bed than he was & better endowed!! Her H was a nutcase, calling me, threatening all of us, talking to a hit man (this actually happened in November & this hit man came to her H's funeral, so we had to move away from our house for a week). He would call me & tell me that he knew my WH wasn't home. Since she has now threatened suicide, I think she's as nutty as he was. I wish I could break her hold on my WH & make her stay out of our lives. I'm beginning to think that NC has not happened & didn't happen on Tuesday, like he said it did. Just based on his actions, & I could be wrong. Just don't know how to tell.

Some days are good & some days are bad. Yesterday he was nice & we got along just fine. He kisses me goodnight & goodbye every day. If I question his activities, he says it's over, we can't get along, I'll never trust him so he don't care anymore. I guess I'm just too impatient. When he acts that way, I think she is contacting him and/or he is contacting her.

Any ideas how to tell if NC has been broken or never started at all?

Day before yesterday was a good day. Yesterday started out good but didn't stay that way.

I saw him at the plasma center (we both donate) & he made a special effort to kiss me 'bye when he left before I did. He called later & told me he was cooking supper & needed a specific cookbook. Oh & the microwave went out. He called back later to blast me about the cookbook cabinet under the microwave. I'll admit I've just been shoving things in there & not putting them in straight like I should. He is a neat-freak. He told me that he would not stay in this relationship as long as I acted like I was the only one living there & that because I don't keep things where they can be found, he will never cook another meal in this house. I didn't argue or get sarcastic. We hung up. When I got home, supper was ready & he started in on me about the cabinet & how I act like I'm the only one living there. BTW, my housekeeping skills have been the biggest cause of dissension in our 24 yr. marriage. I calmly told him that I didn't think I was the only one living there. HOORAY!!!! I finally got the strength to control my anger at his outburst & not argue or scream back at him. We sat down to eat & watch TV & I talked to him in a normal tone of voice. At first he was sarcastic but then got better. I absolutely refused to argue or fight with him. When he went to bed, I followed him because I was carrying our oldest doxie dog who sleeps in the camper with him. I waited for a minute to see what he would do. He came over to kiss me goodnight saying "I don't know if I want to kiss you or not" & then kissed me anyway. I told him, in a happy voice, "yea, you do, you love me you just don't know it yet" He made some comment about "I don't know about that, whatever, goodnight." I went in the house & went to bed.

This morning, I got up a little late. He normally leaves the house around 4:30 a.m. for work. I get up with him because I have quiet time for me before I have to get ready for work. Earlier this week, after a night of not much sleep, I got up & stumbled to the kitchen to see him before he left. He told me that I didn't need to get up that early, that I could sleep later & he didn't understand why I did. I told him about my time before I have to go. This morning, I overslept a little bit. When I went in the kitchen to see him off, he said "you kinda overslept didn't you?" I said "yea, but I did make it out of bed." I usually get up & turn the light on in the kitchen before he comes in to get ready for work. I think he missed my being up when he came in the house. I always walk him to the door, something I have done our entire marriage if I'm home, tell him goodbye, have a good day, be careful, kiss & he's off to work & he says the same to me before he leaves. He seems to be making some effort & I know there are good & bad days. As long as I see effort from him, I will keep trying.

Our 24th anniversary will be Aug. 6. I'm not sure how to handle it. Not sure he wants to celebrate it. Should I bring it up or wait to see if he mentions it???

And how do you know if NC is really happening? How do you tell when withdrawal has ended???

HELP!! Confusion reigns in my life right now. I feel like I'm getting mixed signals from him & I guess that's normal. I just want to be physically touched, held & hugged. Those needs are not being met right now. I think I can handle the SF part but the touch part is what I have a hard time with.

Sorry this is so long. I guess I just need to get things out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Just wanted to know about something. In Plan A, is it a good thing to sit down & discuss conditions of his staying before withdrawal is done??

Saturday, we went to friends' house to eat. AS we left, he made the comment "I wish I had a wife who kept a house like that." I asked if he was trying to start a fight. He said no just making a comment. One of the things he has told me about OW is she keeps an immaculate house. I told him that he could have had a wife like that & he said how. I reminded him what he said about OW's housekeeping skills. He frowned & said he meant me. With her husband dead, if housekeeping is so important to him, why not divorce me & marry her or at least live with her. If I question further to find out what he thinks, he shuts up & won't discuss it.

Would it be a good idea to calmly discuss this with him?? I managed to keep from losing my temper but it has been on my mind since then.

Please help me with this question.

Do have a copy of Surviving an Affair?

Have you read up on PLAN A?

Check out BUGS MOM'S thread for an EXCELLENT PLAN A.



Why would you think he was trying to start a FIGHT?

He is saying what he needs from you..DOMESTIC SUPPORT...one of the ENs...

THIS IS GREAT THAT YOU HAVE THIS INFORMATION...

From this minute onward, work on improving your housekeeping..this isn't just about meeting your H's needs..this is about you becoming the BEST WIFE, MOTHER, PERSON that you can be....



Of course, he would shut up. You BLASTED HIM for being OPEN AND HONEST with you. He gave you an opportunity to work on change and you Lovebusted...

I think you need to read the MB BASIC CONCEPTS and SAA to get a better understanding of PLAN A...

You may not know my story but my H had an A that lasted over 2 years and in July we will have been married 31 years. He was "IN LOVE" with the OW and even ended up moving in with her. We have now been very HAPPILY RECOVERED for almost 4 years...so I can relate to what you are experiencing..

But upon D-DAY, with coaching from the folks here, I began PLAN A and have not turned back...

Blessings to you LOST. I hope I am not sounding too harsh with you but I so wish for your HAPPINESS as well and I think you need to immediately change your approach to this.

Apologize about the HOUSEKEEPING and tell him and SHOW him that you can CHANGE this. It is wonderful and part of your job as a wife to provide an immaculate home for you husband, IMO.

Lost:

Twice on this thread your WH has commented on the condition of the house.

Yes, he can clean it up too.

But for whatever reason, (those DARN EN"S!) HE thinks you should be doing it.

Do you work?
Are you home all day?
Does he provide all the funds for the household?

Then clean the house.

Make yourself an alternative to OW.

And if he likes the fact that OW has an Immaculate house? Then you should too.

And OW gets to straighten it up before WH arrives.

She has the advantage here. So start taking away her advantages.

And he even told you this:

"He frowned & said he meant me."

Yep. You.

LG

Yes, lg, I work as a legal secretary. At night, I archive medical records for a local clinic. His work day is 5:30am to 1:30pm. Mine is 8:30am to 5pm.

I have been working on my housekeeping skills. Even using hypnosis which seems to help me. But you can't break a bad habit overnite. My thing is that housekeeping can wait if there is something I would rather do with my family. My dilemma = Clean house or go shopping for the day with my DDs. I pick a day with my DDs. He is a total neat freak (family history of messy). I'm more laid back & feel he wants something out of Better Homes & Garden. My house is clean but kinda cluttered & looks lived in. I've asked him to help with the laundry, just folding, but he won't. Our friends say they don't know what his beef is with my cleaning. He says he picks up after himself so he shouldn't have to pick up after anyone else.

Yea, I'm working on my cleaning. But I feel he could ease up on some of his demands. I told him yesterday that I thought we had a partnership marriage but it is really a dictatorship--He will stay with me as long as I do what he wants & he's the WS.

Why does he expect me to make all the changes?? Should I wait until after withdrawal or sit down & discuss this now??

Do you know that you are choosing to NEGLECT your WH and give him the clear message that HIS NEEDS are not your highest priority?

I am certainly not saying that him choosing to have an affair is the right way to deal with this.

But don't you see that you are handing him over to the OW on a silver platter?

Do you not get that you don't sound like you LOVE him? If it sounds that way to me or any others here, how do you think he feels? And he is actually TELLING you what he needs from you.

I don't think you are talking about a BAD HABIT. You are making a CHOICE not to work on a major problem in your marriage.



I'm not getting you. You are complaining about who he is. You chose to marry him. You expect him to be someone other than who he is? It doesn't matter about what your friends think? You talk about your H with your friends? That is disrespectful and unloving. Do you not get any of this?

I recommend that you read HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS and the other HARLEY books that can help gain a better understanding of a SUCCESSFUL MARRIAGE. It is not just about YOU and how YOU want to live YOUR LIFE.




This is ALL ABOUT YOU. PLAN A is about CHANGES that you make to be the best wife ever. A wife loves and takes care of her husband or somebody else like the OW will.

Yes. I am sorry to say you are LOST.

We can help you but you have got to change your attitude and viewpoint!!

That's just it. I have been busting it to work on my problems. But don't you think family time is more important than cleaning house? I can be cleaning, he will call me & I will drop everything I am doing to go help him or do what he wants to do. I have gotten better about my cleaning skills. Not that I don't know how, just don't like it. I pick up more after myself & everybody else. I have always put his wants & needs ahead of my own. My IC has told me that I have a problem taking care of myself because I'm so busy taking care of everyone else in my family.



If I didn't love him, I wouldn't be here. I have put up with his temper (& it's horrible), made excuses to our friends, his friends & both families for the way he acts. I have always waited on him hand & foot. Example: I can be in the house cleaning, he will call me outside to help him with something, follow me back in the house & blast me for not cleaning, even though I have just spent 2 hours helping him outside. Also, I have been verbally abused when he gets frustrated with car repairs, his job, you name it. I just let him vent, try not to take it personally & ignore the problem. I can't be in two places at one time. How can I clean house if he wants me to go do something with him? Am I supposed to tell him no because the house is more important than him?



Yea, & he chose to marry me, knowing who I am. I don't expect him to be someone he's not. I've been dealing with who he is for 25 years & loved him anyway. I just want to be accepted for who I am. My WH brought our friends into it by telling them about the A & trashing me to them. They have come to me to try to help me through this mess.

I guess I don't realize that Plan A is all about me changing to suit him & he shouldn't have to make any changes to suit me. I thought since he was the one who strayed, he should be trying to do whatever it takes to make our marriage better. That should be a joint effort & I see that I'm the only one working to make a successful marriage.

As it stands now, he is making all the demands & setting all the conditions for staying in the marriage. You do what I want or I'll leave. But I'd better not say the same to him. I have tried in the past to not argue with him when his temper blows. I'll admit that I've lost it more times than I can count because he won't back off after screaming & cussing at me. And he has done that in front of friends.



Your right, I'm lost. I feel like that I have to bow down to him, change everything about me so he will want to stay married to me. I feel like I have to apologize to him for having an A that he continued after it was exposed. I have acknowledged that I have some blame in this. I have taken many steps to correct my faults which he hasn't even noticed. I thought I should be loved, faults & all, just like I love him. There was some reason he wanted to marry me in the first place. I have not changed that much in 24 years. Maybe gotten B****ier because of his temper & taking his frustrations at other people & things out on me. I get to the point that I just don't want to take it anymore. I have tried to be patient with him during withdrawal but he has lied so many times about it that I don't know if he's telling me the truth anymore. He still hides things because he says I'm nosy & snoop too much & he don't want me knowing his business.

I thought marriage was a partnership with both spouses being equal, not one having to change their whole being to suit the other. I thought that all this on MB was to get both spouses to make changes to create a happy & successful marriage. Have I got it all wrong?????

Check out Flylady.com. Don't sign up for the emails though, or you will get a couple everyday telling you something new to do. It is a GREAT place for someone who doesn't like housekeeping.

Once you get your home in order, you should be able to spend just 5 minutes each day in each room to keep it nice. I actually set the timer and spend 5 minutes each day, and my home is perfect all of the time. I have 7 rooms, so it only takes 35 minutes a day, which is just about the length of one TV program.

It helps to organize and declutter first. I got rid of tons of stuff - sold about $200. worth at a garage sale, and donated about $500. worth - good for me and good for others less fortunate.

The jury is still out on your hubby. So far I'm not impressed, but give him some more time while you meet his needs. You can ALWAYS divorce him if things don't change - your kids are getting to the age where they will be on their own, and you won't have to worry so much.

Keep reading here and trying to work things out.

believer,

Thank you!!! I will certainly go to that website. I try to clean about 1 hour every day, usually in the mornings after WH leaves for work. I know this sounds crazy but a hypnosis cd, that I listen to as I go to sleep every night, has also helped. WH scoffs at that.

I am trying to meet his needs, hoping he will eventually try to meet mine. I feel drained from trying so hard. I'll admit, I've told him when he threatens to leave to go, I don't need him. If I ask him to move out to protect my heart & love, he tells everyone, including our kids, that I'm kicking him out. Funny thing is, when I let go of him & decided he wasn't coming back, I got happy with being alone. I had just gotten to the point of maybe dating (I was being asked by someone) & WH decided he needed to come home.

I feel that if I try not to fight with him when he's in one of his moods, he should have the decency to back off once he's had his say. He has told me that if I wouldn't argue back, he would say what he wanted & it would be over. NOT!!! Doesn't matter what I do, he keeps on.

Have I got this whole MB thing wrong? Is it really about the BS giving in to everything so the WS will stay?

I have been a good wife in everything except housekeeping. Even love him unconditionally & accept him the way he is. He is really good to me at other times.

In the beginning of recovery, the BS does most of the heavy lifting. Not fair, but that is just the way it goes.

Get busier on the house. Will your DD's pitch in? Or a friend? Wish I was closer, I would come over and help. The 5 minutes a day works for me because otherwise I get side-tracked and bogged down. Five minutes is long enough to get a lot done in each room, and the daily maintenance makes a difference.

You can work on teaching your husband to treat you better - you might want to post on the Emotional Needs board for that. All the experts are over there. You can change the way you react to him, and that will cause him to change.

But since he is making such a big deal about the cookbooks being out of order, I would start with the home. Once it gets all straight and pleasant, we will see if he finds something else to ride you about.