If that is how you feel, then it's not wrong. It may change at some point. Maybe someday you can do the friendly co-parent thing, but not yet.

I agree that Drac probably wants a Bugs-fix, but he needs to show a LOT more before you can respond to it.

Ok,

So we are all in agreement that his move last night was designed just to get a look at me. He could have sent DSS out to the car with the box, but he didn't.

Mimi - I have to tell you, that the revived Goddess threads around here have helped me remember to go with those instincts,,,,,,,,,like jamming in the car! DD and I Jammed all the way home too!

I am thinking the letter may be a good idea,,,,,,,,,soon. Just not yet.

This weekend is the party he is having for DD's birthday. I think it will be a bit of an eye opening experience for him to do that all on his own without BUGS there taking care of everything.

I know how yesterday was a bit nerve racking for me, and i had the full support of Mom, Sis, and my niece there to help me. He has a few friends, but I can almost guarantee it's going to be a lot harder than he even imagines.

I 'think' he may get to the end of the day and be thinking about me - both in terms of having my domestic support,, but also how it's just not the same without us all together as a Family for such an important day.

That's what I am thinking,,,,,,????????

Good morning Bugs! I don't believe I have posted to you before, but I have been following your story and cheering for you all the way.

Here is what I think is going on in Drac's head right now...I think with the "loosening" of your Plan B rules, he is hoping the freeze out is coming to an end. He survived your "punishment" and slowly but surely, you are coming around. If he can play this right, y'all will soon be joking around, being friendly and sharing your DD and DSS lives as good friends. And then, he can say to himself, "See, I knew what I had done wasn't all that bad."

That's just how I am reading him.

As for you, WOW! You really are moving forward. I almost pity Drac...missing out on this new you. He hasn't a clue what he gave up...and what/who he gave it up for. Such a pity!

Bugs:

Yes. Plan "BUGS" has gotten a little TOO loose.

The Box?

Did you open it? What was in it?

He was hoping to have THAT discussion with you.

"Put it in the Trunk" Great!

But Ruby is right. "I knew what I had done wasn't all that bad"

Tighten it up a little bit. You don't have to hide, but you can always just be "behind the curtain"

I would call him "drac" next time. OOOPS! Did I say that? I meant "xxxxx"

Then ignore him.

LG

I'm in the lot of jamming in the car often...dancing in my seat, singing, sometimes, at the top of my lungs, acting silly with the boys in the car...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ok, in the effort to tighten up, I need help in how to reply to this email I recv'd first thing today from Drac.

"The reason I considered the ipod for DD is that she asks for it every time we are together, and she really has a love for music. In the end it would be easier and cheaper than trying to purchase the music she enjoys. Is it that you think it will end up lost like the Gameboy, a little to much responsibility at this time for her to keep track of?

The $ was for her class pictures, I have the check for the X property here for you, I will put it in her pack Wednesday."

The draft reply I wrote is

'No doubt she would love it. It is your choice, as it is your gift.

FYI - the other property payment was deducted from my acct Oct 22'



The last part is in reference to another payment that he was supposed to take over effective post divorce. He has not paid me for the Oct pmt or even mentioned it.

Help!!

I think you have a nasty tightrope to walk since you've re-opened communication with him.

To abrupt and he'll think you're a being vindictive and bitter.

To friendly and he'll take that as a balm to his guilty conscience.

I don't really understand why you're doing this. Can you refresh my memory? I think you need to be in a Plan. I don't understand what your plan is. What do you hope to gain from quasi-Plan B?

Plan B means dark/silent, use your intermediary for communication.

Drac:

I have stopped the auto-withdrawal for Y from my acct. You owe $x.xx for it.

Please deliver checks, and paperwork thru the US Mail. Per Your request NOT to include the children in coorespondence.

Bugsmom

Make NO MENTION of the IPOD.

You already have answered him about this.

Stay a little darker that way.

LG

I agree with Lexx..it's OK to still use the intermediary...

Here is the post I wrote to Lexxxy before seeing those from LG and Mimi - I am having to post from my Blackberry today so am going to be a bit behind,,

Lexxxy,

When my D became final, I gave up the total dark restrictions of Plan B as I really had no hopes of any kind of future relationship with Drac. My actions have been more based on what is easiest in My life and what causes ME the least amount of pain/issues/grief/etc. (not totally, but mostly)

I don't know exactly how to describe it. While I still love my XH, and would certainly entertain reconciliation with him under the right circumstances,,,,,,,,,,the days of it being my #1 priority had passed with the signing of the divorce by the judge and with Drac's final actions in that regard.

I do NOT want to have friendly co-parenting with him, as I have said. I am still of the mind/heart that if I can not have a marriage to my DH, then I want no "relationship" with Drac. I don't want to discuss every nuance of daily life with Drac. I do not need to or want to meet his domestic needs or any other needs. He is not entitled to that any longer.

Yet, here I am still holding out some hope - spending time wondering about his reaction to my communications. Wondering if somehow it could work out,,,,,, and what I should/should not do to facilitate that??

This is a bit different than in the past. I am not sitting here with butterflies jumping in my stomach. I am not AGONIZING over this. Yes, I want to 'get it right' in the terms of what may help and not hurt any potential but I feel much more solid and confident in myself that if it doesn't lead to anything, my world is not completely shattered.

My World is just that - MY World. In which I am just fine. I have very happy and content days and weeks. Do I think those days & weeks would be Enhanced by a New relationship with the man I love - Absolutely.

Does ANY of this make ANY sense??

I OWN this as MY BELIEF, Bugsy...

DIVORCE is MANMADE...according to MAN'S GUIDELINES...

MARRIAGE is ORDAINED by GOD..what GOD has put together....

So your decision is whether YOU want to reconcile with YOUR HUSBAND....

If you do, the HARLEYS would recommend continuation of PLAN B (I think)..'cause they give a TIME FRAME of TWO YEARS in PLAN B before recommending moving on...

That's why they want to try to put off DIVORCE...

MAN'S LAWS make getting a DIVORCE too swift and easy, IMO...

LG,

Funny, when I read his email this morning my immediate thought was "The question has been asked and answered - So what is up with this?"

Thus my continued musings about Drac.

I do very much like your thoughts on setting him straight on sending the checks in the mail "Per his request". That is a definite. The same for the other payment.


Mimi & Lexxxy,

I am going to consider going back to intermediary. It has been better without the intermediary, in that it is less cumbersome to just answer directly. It has also been my 'impression' that Drac thought of the use of the intermediary (and really all of Plan B) as being due to 2 things only.

First, that it was all because I was "angry, hurt & bitter"

Second, that it was to "control him, force him to end his A with the HO, and to have a say about his personal life". During his justification of the D, he brought up time & again that he felt I treated him like a child and that he always felt like he had to ask for "permission" to do things. FUNNY, though,,,, isn't that just what this email over DD's gift seems like??

IMHO - By going back to the intermediary now would likely fuel those misconceptions on his part. I don't think he ever understood what my actions, and the changes I have made are about. He's continued to apply the typical WS interpretation of everything, and never grasped that reconciliation, a NEW marriage, a BETTER marriage could be possible for US.

He stands in the firm arena of the typical IRL folks who think that I should "get over it and be friendly parents together". Which, we all know, is not what I want.

Mimi - I agree with the 2 year time frame. I also agree fact that marriage is ordained by God. Oh my goodness, YES, man's law's make it is waayy too easy to end a marriage.

Spiritually, mentally and emotionally, I am still married to my husband. I don't know when that may change. 2 years seems like a very short time in which to think that will change for ME.

Thanks for the input,,,,,, My thought process has now expanded! I don't know yet what reply I am going to send today,,, if any.

Bugsy:

This is gonna sound harsh..but it's said out of love and caring..


Speaking for myself, I don't come here to help you with making your life easier. I mainly come here to help with the MB System and Plans and to foster my continued use of this approach. It's a matter of what you want to do about your relationship with Drac. If your goal is to continue towards Marital Recovery despite your Divorce, then I recommend PLAN B. PLAN B will also help with your own PERSONAL RECOVERY. Otherwise, go ahead and coparent with him and remain divorced. You see what I mean? I encourage you to come up with A PLAN in order to maintain the sense of PERSONAL POWER that you have developed.



Who CARES what he thinks? Do you BELIEVE in the value of the PLAN? I'm hearing that you don't. That's what matters, WHAT YOU BELIEVE...There is no way for you to actually know HIS IMPRESSION and a WAYWARD hardly THINKS at all...



Of course! He's a WS or XH or whatever..he's actively involved in his affair and he SELFISHLY wants his cake and eat it, too..he's selfish..only out to get HIS OWN NEEDS MET NOW...he's not ruled by any THOUGHT PROCESS...

You need to GO DARK, STAY AWAY FROM HIM or you will be EMOTIONALLY DAMAGED by this some way..sucked into his EVILNESS and/or GROW TO HATE HIM....

This is NOT a typical and now we are AMICABLY DIVORCED type of situation...

This is a DIVORCE that resulted from an AFFAIR...

and don't you FORGET IT....

Ah, Mimi,,,,,,

I expected no less than what I got from you - Thank you!

Even as I typed the words,,,I KNEW in my heart that you would say this -



As for this,



I will be totally honest, I don't know. I may get a 2 x 4 here, but I am being honest -I went into Plan B in July and am now sitting here a single, divorced Mom. It sure doesn't feel like it's worked and I question where continued Plan B will get me in regards to recovery with Drac.

It HAS gotten me those next steps in personal recovery, for which I am oh so grateful. The sense of personal power I have today vs prior is amazing.

Yes, I DO want to recover with Drac to a new and better marriage.

Yes, I realize it takes believing in and working the plans the way they are designed by the Harleys - unless specifically coached by them to the contrary. I know it has worked for tons of other people.

"Knowing" isn't enough,,, it's the believing that makes things happen.

So,,,,in going back to being more dark - using my intermediary - there will have to be some communication with Drac to advise him.

I am going to have to think about what I need to say and how to say it,,,,,, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Bugs:

You have your ORIGINAL plan B Letter.

Rewrite it and redeliver it. Maybe at a lunch you arrange. Smile sweetly and be pleasant. Let him read it while you are there. And let him ask questions.

You explained in the first letter what it would take to have Drac come back. The same reasons still apply. Now the fact of the divorce needs to be added, and the next steps home might be slightly different, but not by much.

You got divorced anyway. Drac's choice. And your personnally in a better spot than if you hadn't found MB.

That's why I was saying that plan Bugs needed tightening.

It went from understanding that some communication was required, and that if Drac 'caught' sight of you, ok. But it has devolved into something more.

More "Co-parenting" than plan B. Not all the way, but heading there.

And that works for Drac. And, on many levels, for Bugs.

Will it restore you to a marriage with Drac? Maybe. Maybe not. More likely NOT.

So what DOES BUGS DO?

[email]D@mn[/email] these crossroads.

Plan B and darkness? An MB plan, through and through. Good chance of success.

Plan A and try to win him back that way? Another MB plan. Ask princessmeggy, that's what happened in her case, after her WH left all his affair partners. Another good chance of success, but could you stand to have to submit to that? Real tough that one.

Plan ??? Sort of in the middle? As they say in politics, if you are in the middle of the road, you get squashed.

[email]D@mn[/email] these crossroads.

So Bugs? Plan B seems to lead to the BEST chance.

You did an excellent Plan A. And then as the Plan D rolled around, and you were OUT of Drac's life, because of Plan B, the affair lost its third leg and toppled. As far as we know.

That's why I keep suggesting that the proper "bait" from you just might hook him good.

I would recommend that the "Hook" be delivered with the plan B letter. He jumps on. Or You jump off.

And then you go forward.....


[email]D@mn[/email] these crossroads.

((((Bugsy))))

LG

Lg,



[email]D@mn[/email] is right!!!

I'll get back to you when I can think of something better to say! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes. It does.

So, my take is that the biggest function of Plan B is to protect you. I hear you saying the right things--you have come so far it's amazing. You're not hanging on his every word any more, and that's great.

When I listen between the lines, though, you still want him to come back and are still watching for signs. Watching for signs is fine, but you will be able to do it longer and better if you're in Plan B.

If your intermediary is amenable and it's not too cumbersome, you can go back into Plan B.

"You know, I thought I would be okay with more communication, but I was wrong. I find that it is still too painful for me to interact with you when I know that, even now, things could be so different between the two of us and for our family. And so I'm asking you . . . ."

....too....tired....to...comment...

but...

I hear ya on a lot of the "what now?" stuff.

Let me ask:
If he were to walk in the door right now, would you want him back...enough to go through the pain of recovery? Sounds like you have something left in the love bank, but what about in the respect bank?

Just askin'


zzzzzzzzz.......

Sis, you don't have to think about that question right now. It will just make you tired--you deserve a long rest. Go to sleep. One foot in front of the other.

Carry on, Bugs.

Hey everyone!

Sis, hoping you are catching some well deserved ZZZs!

I think all of the 'bank' accounts are still open enough for H to make deposits. The balances are very low and may run into the red in the not too distant future,,,,which of course, puts more emphasis on the good things about Plan B.

LG - sometimes I feel like I'm NOT 'smarter than a 5th grader" when it comes to all of this and then you come along and draw out an explaination One more time for me that along with all of the other great advice, finally clicks in some way for me.

I will ask though, for more clarification on what you mean by this,,



????
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Think 5th Grader in your explaination!