Darkness fell at 7:20am this morning.
Drac is now free to wander in the darkness!
He stopped by this am to get his mail. I was just pulling out of the driveway when he was pulling in. I backed up and got out. He talked to the front of the car and stopped. Told me about DD's cough meds and tried to leave.
I reached in the car and got the pump for his air mattress and the PBL. I showed him the pump first so he had to walk towards me. I gave him the pump and the pulled out the PBL. I said,'This is for you' and handed it it him. Then I said 'And this is for you' and gave him a big hug and a kiss on the cheek. I told him to have a safe trip, got in my car, and left
He went into the house. I HOPE he took the time and privacy to read it right then and there.
But, NOW I STOP wondering what he may or may not be doing!
GOOD FOR YOU, BUG'S MOM!!!
YOU ARE AWESOME!!
ALL OF THE GODDESSES OF THE WORLD, STAND UP AND CLAP!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
Now the NEW long Road.
You have learned so much.
From your first post to now.
This is a new Chapter. The beginning of the end, or the End of the Beginning. Not really sure. To early to be deep.
However.
We only hope he does READ IT.
Please put a link to your first thread in your sig block. There is SO MUCH good info there, that others need to know how to access it.
Thank you for your kind words over on the other thread. It made my day.
Now, what do YOU have planned tonight?
LG
Thanks Mimi for the applause!
I feel FREE to BE my OWN GODDESS and I fully intend to do so in every way!
LG,
I am 99% sure Drac will read it, it is just his nature that he would not be able to leave it alone.
Will he give a darn about anything it says? No, not now. Judging from the WS fake pats on the back when I gave him that big hug, he will be relieved right now that he does not have to deal with me and it will give him something to twist around and tell everyone that I am once again being so 'ridiculous'.
Whatever. That's his world now, not mine.
MY world is filled with now being able to focus on my kids, my job, and my life!
Today am getting with my banking friend to get loan approval ASAP, working with my agent on a couple of house offers, getting soem Major things finished at work, and then taking the kids to a movie tonight.
Weekend - taking my Mom, DSS, my brother and his GF to an event on Sat. DD is going w/my niece to the zoo and then swimming. Sun- firming up plans for getting moved in the next couple weeks!
I am LITERALLY moving on!
Not to say that the protected love I hold for Drac does not still hope that H will show up, but that is not my focus now
Thanks everyone for your support in getting me to this point! I will try to put that link in my signature line tonight,,I don't think I can do it using the Blackberry.
Bugs, hope your first day goes well. Bravo at the letter exchange! Now, pay no mind to the wayward.
Keep posting, too. You will have an emotional coaster of your own to deal with.
OOO, I also like LG's idea of you putting a link to your first thread in your signature line. Your plan A and the wealth of advice you've gotten can be so helpful to many struggling here.
Woo Hoo, I'm slow because I couldn't get on last night and my attention is off this morning! LMAO
:::slow clap::::
((((BUGS))))
Good for you!
Wonderful not to have that weight on your shoulders...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Where did all the light go?
Great jobs Bugs.
One more time - you did mah-ve-lous.
Thanks!
The good thing is that even in the darkness, only Drac has disappeared. Everyone else who is Good for my world continues to remain in my life
I am glad Drac is gone starting tonight. Lessens the chance of him attempting contact or running into him.
Help with a FORUM STRATEGY...
I suggest you put PLAN B and a shout out for HELP in your TOPIC in order to bring out the BIG GUNS to help you..that was a STRATEGY that I used to get attention... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I haven't posted to you new thread yet....I assume you know I'm with ya all the way!
hey mimi -- who are the big guns? just curious...
What does she need help with? She rocks!!! lol
Big guns??? You are one LEXX...
Big guns???...ANYBODY with EXPERIENCE with PLAN B...
I found that people responded when I said I NEED HELP is the reason I said that...
I think, though, that having Mortarman to check in during PLAN B is particularly GREAT...
He was MY SALVATION...
Hey everyone!
Right now I am so busy, my mind is spinning too fast to think much about Drac
I have applied for my home loan, made another offer, work is NUTS, and am having to take DD to the dr later this pm!
The only thoughts I have had of Drac today is when several times my phone rang and no one has left a message. That Never happens. When people get my office vm, they either leave a message or call my cell.
I WILL be putting out thise Shouts for help, do not worry about that! Just for today, am doing well!
What does she need help with? She rocks!!! lol
Like a Hurricane!
I'm still alive Bugs, guess what happens when the drama's over? Life takes off again and it takes everything you have just to hold on.
The next few days may get rough, so I just wanted to stop in real quick and tell you how special you are. I don't know if anybody will ever top your Plan A so be proud of that.
You're in a good place Bugs and you have good friends, so now you can relax and rest. I'll stop by from time to time to throw some rediculous nonsense at you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
So remember:
Lache Pas La Patat(Don't drop the potato)
Hey, Bugsy--
How ya doing? Haven't heard from you this afternoon. Just being a Mama Killer B and checking on ya.
((Bugs))
--CJ
Hey Bugs
Just poppin in to check on you. I've been out of touch for most of the week b/c I had jaw surgery last week and started a new job this past Monday. Don't get to check MB during work hours like I used to... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Glad to see you went to plan B and that your 1st day has gone well.
You sound upbeat and wonderful!!!
I'll keep checking in but my plan B experience is pretty limited since it didn't last too long.
Take care
Daze
Hey everyone!
Thanks to you ALL for checking on me!
Took DD to the dr. She had to have a breathing treatment to open her bronchial tubes more and will have inhaler treatments for 5 days plus antibiotics
I did have an email sent to Drac letting hin know. He followed the PBL rules and replied via email asking only what the dr said.
Tonight I had kids call per the new schedule. I had already explained the new 'routine' to the kids but DD did ask if he wanted to talk to me. I heard him reply NO, as she had walked up to me while she was talking.
While it does hurt a bit, it is pretty 'normal' for hin anyway, so I was not surprised.
I fully realize that especially at first, he will LOVE the freedom he feels in Plan B. It is still hard, but you all have prepared me well for it, so since I know what is coming, it is not so bad as it could be.
Now, where did I drop that potato?!
We are just taking it easy tonight, reading books and watching tv since DD is under the weather.
Tomorrow catching up even more at work will be the focus. Also, am sending documentation to bank to proceed w/my loan. I AM ALREADY APPROPVED FOR THE AMOUNT I NEED! WHOO HOO!
So, all the rest is a formality and all I have to do is get one of those home owners to accept my offer and I am on my way!
It will all come together the way it is meant to be, of that I have no doubt.
Thanks again!! Gotta go give DD her meds and then get her off to bed early.
Tonight I had kids call per the new schedule. I had already explained the new 'routine' to the kids but DD did ask if he wanted to talk to me. I heard him reply NO, as she had walked up to me while she was talking.
Got to get this sealed up, Bugs, so you don't hear his voice and he does not use this to break through the PB to get a fix of you. We've seen it happen..."Tell your mother, etc." and your daughter will try her best to get you two talking...
Mimi,
I can make sure I am not close enough to hear anything, that is not a big deal. I really doubt Drac trying to send a message through the kids, he was really mad the one time I had told DSS to let him know I'd see him the next day so I don't think he'll try that.
He is enjoying Plan B and knowing his personality, I am sure he is taking it as. 'Challenge' of sorts,,,in that he will do all he can to prove he doesn't need or want to talk to me either. I do not see him trying to break through,,IF he ever does, it won't be for a long time
I am trying not to make a Huge deal of this to the kids. DD was a bit upset already, so I am just trying to make it seem as 'normal' as I can for her right now
I am open for ideas, ,
Sure - and lightbulbs on your porch unscrew themselves. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Kayla,
I am sitting her Still laughing!! That was TOO funny!
I see your point, though. I don't know, but I feel so good right now, and don't really care to give Drac much thought at all, I guess I am fooling myself into believing that IF he did try to break the darkness, I could/would just ignore him.
I really do NOT care what he has to say unless it is words of recovery and I know he is So very far away from that right now it is hard to imagine even hearing from him at all
I mean, really. He has worked to hard to get me out of his life, he is going to be really flying high in his own world for quite some time to come
I hope you don't get offended if it sounds like I'm being nitpicky with you.
I'm passing down to you the mindset that MM gave me.
This is a WAR and should be taken as a series of BATTLES to FIGHT for your marriage.
The WAR involves strategizing against the ENEMY.
It may seem to you that the telephone conversation last night does not matter.
But it does.
You are already thinking about ( I think) how HE is responding to PLAN B.
PLAN B means that HE DOES NOT EXIST FOR YOU.
Any contact that YOU have with HIM..breaks PLAN B..well not a BIG BREAK...but I think you know what I mean..
I understand that it is hard with young children..but work on FIXING THIS....making sure that you are totally unavailable when she talks to him...
I don't like the E-Mailing between you two either..EMAIL should go to an intermediary...
Even if only unconsciously when YOU start to miss him you MAY start to count on the calls to BUGS to get a TASTE of HIM...you may looking for some underlying message in the E-Mails...
I GUARANTEE YOU that HE will try to get a FIX of YOU..maybe not within the next FEW DAYS but it WILL HAPPEN...
Mimi,
I certainly do not feel you are nit picking! The reason I am here is to get the advise of those who have gone before so I appreciate everything you have to share!
To clarify, I am not thinking he is responding to Plan B. Not at all. If anything, as I said before, he is enjoying it. For him, he is getting the total freedom he has longed for.
I understand your points about any breaks. I am not trying to 'excuse' but explain the break as 'acceptable' only because it involved a Health issue for DD. If the roles were reversed, I expect to have some communication from him to let Me know what was going on.
I intend to continue to coach and teach DD on the situation. Due to her age it will take an adjustment period. I did have a talk with DSS yesterday about it as well. Of course I was more open with him as to the what and the why I am making these changes. My biggest focus was to make sure he understands how very important HE is to me and that NONE of this has anything to do with him. That will be an ongoing project of reassurance with him. I explained to the sitter that Drac will be picking up DSS from HER house unless it is a night he will be staying with me. She understands, although it will be a challenge for her because of Drac's selfish scheduling habits. But, that is his problem.
So, I GET the message, I really do and I appreciate it!
((((Bugsy))))
To clarify, I am not thinking he is responding to Plan B. Not at all. If anything, as I said before, he is enjoying it. For him, he is getting the total freedom he has longed for.
This is EXACTLY what I'm DISCOURAGING you from doing. I want you to start PRACTICING..NOT THINKING ABOUT HIM AT ALL..try to wipe any thought of HIM out of your mind...because you really do not know what he is thinking and doing..read over MY GIFT TO YOU or even THOUGHTS OF FBWes threads..Sorry, I don't know where to find them..ALL THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT I WAS MAKING ABOUT MY H were WRONG...
When my mind would drift towards thinking about my husband, I would literally SHAKE MY HEAD...shaking that man out of my head..get the picture?.."He's DEAD to me"..I know.. so very, very hard, almost impossible to do...
Mimi,
I will find those threads for sure.
I see what you are saying now. I think, for me, I was looking at part of the 'letting go' process was to acknowledge it as giving him his freedom.
So, now it is putting up the brick all. 'Shaking him out of my head' when he pops in there!
So, in that vein, let's all do the happy Dance --Bugs load is Totally Approved for her to buy a house! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />:).
Gotta get off here and get to negotiating! IF I get this particular house, DD is going to FLIP- it has a pool!
Thanks again Mimi
Bugs:
You state that you "did have an email sent" to Drac about DD inhaler issues.
Was that sent by you directly to Drac, or by you to your intermediary to drac, and then back to you from the intermediary?
Cause that is how it is supposed to work.
Overhearing Drac talking to Daughter is easy to avoid in the future. However, email exchanges are more difficult.
If he can get you on that, on the first day of darkness, he knows that you are not that far away, and easy to break.
And about this:
"I am not thinking he is responding to Plan B. Not at all. If anything, as I said before, he is enjoying it. For him, he is getting the total freedom he has longed for."
Yes, he might be, but, you are thinking about it. Tough habit and behavior to break.
He could be jumping for joy, or he could be laying on the floor, thinking, OMG, I have BLOWN IT!
Either way, its for him to work through. Not you.
What are your doing today in regards to the househunt and spending the night with DD? And if DD is not with you tonight, who are you going to go visit?
Mimi posted in between me starting this and my finally sending it to you, good luck on the house!
About the POOL? Flamingo and I signed the papers to install one in our house 3 days after Dday. What a leap of faith that was! But it's been great. A maintenance issue, but once you get the hang of it, its not so bad.
LG
LG,
I did send the email - should have had int.send it. Will do from here on. I can not block email from Drac completely because of work, but can simply not read and forward on.
Am sitting on pins & needles right now waiting for response on the house offer. It just feels so right!
I will be Totally engrossed in this endeavor for a while, so that should help keep me too occupied to think about anything else
Tonight DD, DSS and I will be doing our 'housework' as we are going to my sister's tomorrow. DD is spending evening with my niece Sat while I take DSS, Mom, Bro, and Bro's GF to the races. I have suite passes through work so it will be a lot of fun. (Bush Series). Not really MY cup of tea, but my mom is a fanatic, which is really strange. You would never guess her to be one
I also have my mind on my nephew, the one that lost his brother. He has a drug addiction and we are dealing with a lot of issues with him right now. We are looking to find a rehab that we can get him in because we are going to have to have an intervention. He stole pills from his mom's boyfriend's house when we were there last week.
So, a lot going on, which overall, is good for me!
Goddess here, clapping loudly.
Bug
I like your image of "shaking him out of my head." It reminded me of that song from South Pacific "I'm gonna wash that man right outta my hair." Now I'll be humming that tune all day!
Oh yes,,, on the pool? VERY cool commitment for you to make at that time, LG.
I had one years ago and did most of the maintenance on it myself. I like working and being outside, so it is a definate Plus for me as well as the kids. I know it can be a lot of work, but it will be worth it. It is above ground, but ony 4 years old.
I am already thinking of things I want to change in the yard, starting with cutting down a big ugly tree!
Bellvue - thanks for the Goddess claps! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
JT - DARN it, now the song is stuck in MY head! I LOVE that movie by the way.
Now I have another PB activity--rent all of the OLD movies that I Love!
Thanks!
Btw- GREAT day going, as I just signed a nice big contract at work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
Softball player...
Pool Maintenance officer...
Sales Leader....
Drac is really an idiot...
Did Ho deliver pizza's for a living?
Sorry!
LG
You explain it to us, LG...
I'm a GODDESS OF ALL THINGS, too...
The OW in my case was an IDIOT..Ok, maybe not to that extreme... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
He was able to MOLD her and TEACH her..YUCK..I'm about to get sick..LATER.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Mimi:
I'm not going there....
I never moved out.
I was EVEN WORSE than DRAC. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
In my very humble opinion.
Drac at least had the guts to move out.
But why he stays away?
No CLUE.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
LG
LG,
LMAO! Reminds me of a line from the Bangor Sisters, but in the spirit of good taste I won't write it here!
Mimi is on to something - it is not that Drac is trying to mold her but is playing the role of the 'HERO'. He even told me once when they were 'just friends' about how he felt sorry for her being a 'single mom'.
Talk about Puke! Gag!
He goes to 'rescue' her from he troubles as a single mom by MAKING ME a single mom??
Mimi, you reminded me several time about that need for admiration!
I tried hard to show my 'need' for him as well as my admiration in Plan A. Now in Plan B, my skills with handling my life will grow and shine!
Drac may get admiration for a while, but as it has already been shown, it will quickly turn into selfish demands. Then they can have a contest on whose selfish demand is more important.
Meanwhile, I will be here happy and content in the dark safe from all of the drama - see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for the laugh!
how he felt sorry for her being a 'single mom'
I GOT THIS, TOO!!
So, I had to turn into a single mom..but, of course, I could handle it but she couldn't... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
So, I had to turn into a single mom..but, of course, I could handle it but she couldn't...
Wow, Bugsy..I hadn't read down far enough to know that you had said the same thing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
EGG-ZACT-LEE!
Frightening, isn't it?
Did your FWH try to get your DS to 'feel sorry' for him because he was 'under such STRESS trying to get his finances straightened out'?
Or tell your DS that it was YOUR fault he is going to have to change schools?
Or tell your kids to LIE for him
Or keep SECRETS for him
Or tell your kids that you would 'meet a boy and they will have a step dad'
Geez,,sorry about that, I got on a Ridiculous roll there for a moment.
Back to more important things. I just talked to the sitter and DD is doing much better!
My weekend plans should be ok as long as she is better!
LOL...
You forgot..our sons are grown men...
He was more scared that they would do HIM or HER bodily harm...
Our OS who has a BAD TEMPER purposefully asked me not to share any of the details OR ELSE....
From my UNDERSTANDING, that IDIOT OW wanted to PLAY FAMILY with our YS..who was in high school..COULD YOU IMAGINE??..Maybe they could have DOUBLE-DATED... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Amazing! Yes, I should have thought about your boys being tempted to give Dad a 'wake up call'!
Double dating? Eeewww!LOL!
I am standing by the fax machine waiting for the contract for my New House!!
I will close no later than Aug 15th!! Whoo Hoo!
Pool party on the 18th at my place!
Congratulations you homeowning goddess you!! Have a GREAT weekend.
OMG! You new-house-owner-goddess YOU!
Congratulations!
Now its really time to daydream...cut the tree down...paint? new furniture? any other fun stuff?
Do you get to take DD by to see it? She will FLIP over the pool! So will DSS!
Thanks! I am VERY excited! I still can't believe it's going to happen!
I haven't told the kids yet,,,,am going to tell them and take them by to see it this weekend. It's going to be a bit of a shock - - reality really setting in.
My mom is already getting in the planning mode on the furniture! Good thing about it is that I dont' HAVE to do anything immediately. It is immaculate, so I can move right in and then take time to think about the decorating, etc.
I will "relax", the day I have the key in my hand!! Til then, am TRYING to be cautiously excited,,,as if there is such a thing!
My BIGGEST concern, and I know it's a Plan B no, no,,,,,,,but is what Drac may try to do. He can't stop me, WON'T stop me. As the D isn't settled yet, I am going to have some concern til everything is final. Also, I am going to expect some major Plan B push back so am trying to think in terms of being "prepared".
But, for tonight, I have a bottle of champange chilling and will soak in a HUGE bubble bath later and celebrate being a Home Owner Goddess!!
So, who is bringing what to the pool party? Where's BC? I KNOW he'll have the hook up on the drinks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Hi all,
I've been following your thread Bugs, and I want to say that I'm impressed at how far you've come. I can't add anything constructive since I'm new here and struggling myself, but I've learned alot from you. Thanks.
Mimi - Do you have a thread around here? I would like to know more about your experience. It sounds like you are in recovery??
PrincessMeg - I read your "Should have been the MB way" story and it gave me hope. It was a great story. I was acting out a lot like you were, so I'm glad I found MB. Maybe I can do something before its too late!! I was so glad that the story ended the way it did. I love the happy endings....
I was acting out a lot like you were, so I'm glad I found MB. Maybe I can do something before its too late!! I was so glad that the story ended the way it did. I love the happy endings....
Good! I'm glad you read it and recognized my WRONG behavior. Trust me, I took the darkest, bumpiest, scariest route when I could have had so much more PEACE. Stick with MB. It is a BLESSING. You'll learn so much and however things turn out for you, you'll be a better person for it (and that's not just a cliche).
((Knitgirl))
Now read Bugs, Lil Sis and Silent Lucidity's (and others I can't think of right now) threads for some more inspiration. And LISTEN to the vets... their posts are clearly obvious and chalk full of wisdom (I don't want to start naming name cause I'll surely leave someone out.)
Hi Bugs (Waving at Bugs) What part of the country are you in? I might even make a trek for the celebration pool party.
Congrats on the house Bugs !!!!
Now you will have lots to keep your mind busy for awhile.
One thing I would like to say...
Try not to think about Drac in a bad way. Even if he does something wrong, keep looking for positives.
Now is the time to train yourself for when that mountain moves and he is brought back home. You want to always find good no matter what.
"In the shelter of your presence you hide them from the intrigues of men; in your dwelling you keep them safe from accusing tongues. Praise be to the LORD, for he showed his wonderful love to me when I was in a besieged city. In my alarm I said, "I am cut off from your sight!" Yet you heard my cry for mercy when I called to you for help." Psalm 31:20-22
"Sorrow is better than laughter, for sadness has a refining influence on us. A wise person thinks much about death, while the fool thinks only about having a good time" (Ecclesiastes 7:3-4 NLT).
The Bible says that sorrow is better than laughter. Why would that be true? Because when you are hurting and in distress, you are more apt to examine your heart and your motivations. You know your spirit is grieving, and you have the opportunity to deal with the root cause of the pain. It is far better to grieve and learn, than to be happy but a fool. What have you learned from your depression and grief that you can use to reinvest in a better future? What wisdom have you gained?
Prayer:
Lord, what can I learn in my depression? What can I learn about myself, others, and You that will result in a fuller life for me? Teach me, Holy Spirit. Amen.
Knitgirl,
Meggy gave you a great reply. Stick around here, read, post, vent, learn. There is Such great support here I can not begin to tell you how much it has helped me! {{Knitgirl}}
Hi Meggy, I am in Missouri, so it would be a bit of a hike from the Great State! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
INeed, looks like you had a late night. Thanks for the scripture and prayers! I have put away in a safe place enough love and positive thoughts/feelings about Drac so they are safe should the 'mountain move' as you say. I Do still say nice things to the kids about him in that he is a good man and that he loves them very much.
However for now, the focus Has to change from him to Me. Plan B being about Me, not him. It is hard, but I am trying.
The only thing I will say about him today is that last night, he followed the PBL and called on the kids phone. I went downstairs and worked on laundry so I heard None of the conversation on either side!
It is a beautiful day here. I am sitting on the deck drinking coffee and enjoying the thought of sitting in MY OWN screened in backporch soon!
I posted and found MY PLAN B THREAD for ya....
Hey Bugs,
I don't think I ever posted to you before, I'm not around as much as I was before but I log on just to keep up with your sitch...
Now I know why because we live in the same state (the Show Me State), wow maybe I can come to the pool party after all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />
By the way you are doing great wish you were around to give me encouragement when I was going through...
Pepsi
Bugs: Not a late night. I am up everynight til 12 or 1am. Then back up at 5:30 am. I try to get everything in when my daughter is sleeping. I spend alot of time with her now.
It will be hard to improve on yourself. You have done so much already. Enjoy relaxing and having fun. The new house will be great for you and just in time for school.
I'm still waiting to see what will happen. I know I can't afford the mortgage here and he borrowed more than the house is worth, so there is no getting out of this house. We would have to pay the 2nd mortgage first. One of the many things he did not consider.
Now is the time you can get closer to your kids. Enjoy them while you still can.
Just wanted to stop in an say HI! HI!
LMAO...:)
Hey All!
Pepsi,,,, Hey! I've seen your name pop up from time to time. Thanks for not only keeping up with my thread, but for taking the time to post to me. WOW! It always amazes me that I have/am any sort of inspiration to anyone! I am just trying to do the best I can,,, I think the inspiration really comes from people reading the GREAT advise I have gotten from so many here!
INeed,,,,wish I had your stamina! I am up and down all night, but am never "with it" enough to get on line and post.
Rin - - Hey girlfriend! How's my fellow Angel doing??
I just got back to my sister's. She & her husband are at my OTHER sister's this weekend,,,, helping her deal with her sitch regarding my surviving nephew and his drug problem. His mom, Older Sister #1 has just gotten on meds for VERY high blood pressure. We were giving her a week on the meds before telling her that her surviving son stole pain pills from her boyfriend last week. Not a good sitch at all.
I am here waiting for my 6 year old to come "home". Can you believe that?? I thought this wouldn't start til she was a teenager!! LOL! She is with my niece and her husband, at his sister's house. They have a girl DDs age and both were in the niece/nephew's wedding last year. They've had a ball tonight and have decided the are "cousins". I am sure she is asleep, but wanted to come "home" to me tonight, so I am waiting up for here.
We had a GREAT time at the race tonight. DSS even really got into it and had so much fun. I had him call Drac at the "regular" time,,,,I had him step outside of the suite we were in to make the call. He came right back in, so I thought he got VM. He said no, he did talk to him. When I checked the phone, it was a whole 1 minute 23 seconds that they talked!! Drac never called DD, even though she had the "approved" kid phone. SHE didn't care, as she was having fun. So, that is all I care about.
Well, I met with my real estate agent to sign "originals" of the offer paperwork and found out the sellers are a bit nervous about the fact that my D is not settled. So, tomorrow, I am taking the kids to see the house and to "sell" myself and the deal to the agent and the sellers. Just have to reassure them that I am fully approved and able to do the deal all on my own.
The kids don't know I have made an offer on the house,,, I want them to feel they are a part of the decision making process. I KNOW they are going to LOVE the house and will be thrilled to find out,,,I HOPE,,, that I am buying it!
So, guess I'll settle in for the return of DD. Have a peaceful night all.!
Suggestion: don't check the phone to see how long he talked to the kids. Don't remind the kids to call him...let them call him on their own.
Try to step out of their relationship and let him fend for himself with his children. If he calls them, great (but not an issue for you)...if they call him, great (but not an issue for you)...
If you don't check then you won't know he's not calling them and you won't get mad at him. The kids will come to you if they don't hear from him. Deal with it then.
The biggest part of Plan B is that YOU are living YOUR life! I know you want to do things for your children (like making sure they talk to their dad), but if they get upset with him because he doesn't call then maybe that will be a wakeup call for him --- that you are not going to initiate contact between him and his children every day. It's not your responsibility to do that.
Bugs
Congrats on the contract!!! I think Meggy and I live in the same area of the Great State, so maybe we can make a road trip together for your housewarming, pool party! LOL
You are doing great and you sound amazing. Keep it up you Goddess you.
Take Care
Daze
Hey Daze!
I Love a good road trip!!
Thanks, I am still being 'cautiously' excited about the house. I took the kids there today during an Open House the seller had already scheduled and could not cancel. I told them that it was a place we were just LOOKING at,,,did not tell them any more. They fell in love with it and asked if we could buy it. It felt so Great to be able to tell them YES! They are both excited. Now just have to work through the final details asap to close by the 10th.
I am not allowing myself to wonder or speculate what Drac will think or do. The kids called him the am twice and got his vm. Phone was off. He called them at lunch time. We were at McDonalds with my niece Before we were going to see the house, so I had her sit with them while they talked. I heard NONE of the conversation. Drac called the house early before my scheduled drop off time for DSS (DSS cell was dead) I let DD answer and went downstairs to avoid the conversation. DSS came down after and told me FIL was here to pick him up
FIL and I sat outside on the proch talking for 1/2 an hour. I told him about the house and showed him pics. He is going to give me a lwan mower, riding and/or push, whatever I need. He has several as he likes to tinker with them. He said he'd do anything I needed if I need any help, including moving. We did not talk much about Drac, except the FIL said it was time for me to move on and do what is best for me. He is a dear man! I have made sure he knows I intend for us to stay in touch and he is welcome at my home anytime!
Cat,
I am struggling with the kid contact thing, as you can see. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but am hesitant and unsure.
I put in the PBL that whoever has DD would have her call at specific times. This am, she made Another comment on how she always gets daddy's vm and was not happy with him.
So, in order to make a change to the 'schedule' I would need to come out of the dark to cummunicate that. I do not think it is wise right now. It has not even been a week and I already contacted him about DD's dr appt
I am doing better at avoiding even being close enough to hear the conversation. I will take your advise on not checking on the length of time they talk. But for now will leave the schedule 'as is'
I will be having my A send a letter informing Drac of the pending move and estimated timeframe. Will say only that we will be out of this house by the end of Aug.
I feel very Relaxed tonight. Used to be that I would be really wound up, worrying about so many things to be done. I am actually sitting on my deck enjoying the weather and having a cocktail. Thinking about how i am amazed by where and how I am right now!
Goddesses Rule!
(((Bugs)))
You seem to be doing well so far in plan B. Keep it up. Learn from the mistakes that have been made with my plan B and others.
Your kids are very lucky....
Still
Hey Still!
I don't know how good I am really doing, but am taking it as it comes.
Drac called DD to say goodnight. I again went away so as not to hear the conversation. It is hard and it hurts, but it is the way it has to be.
I am really feeling pretty good,, a few triggers come my way almost hourly, but that is life. I try not to let them ovetake me. I think qualifying for the house, negotiating the deal all on my own, having success at work is all coming together to bolster me at the time when I need it most. I sang to myself while DD was on the phone with Drac, just to be sure I did not overhear her side ov the conversatio! I made up my own little lyrics, just praising and thanking God for his blessings, his love, his faithfulness. None of my life or how things are going is due to me, but due to Him.
He sent me here for sure! I know I would be at a much different, and much worse place had I not found MB and you all!
Bugs,
I know it's hard... those darn triggers.
I just know God is here with all of us and there is light at the end of the tunnel. A light we can't even imagine right now.
Still
Bugs,
Just a loving, friendly reminder. If you are considering changing or adding to the kids' "call WH" times, you do not come out of Plan B for that. There's no blood or fire, so it's not an emergency. You speak to your intermediary and have the intermediary send 1-2 suggested additional times to WH. PERIOD. Then the intermediary filters his response for spewed WS-babble, and tells you "yes" or "no" to each suggestion. YOU DO NOT CONTACT HIM.
Also, this is really the sad part. You are going to be begin to see just how much YOU bolstered, encouraged and facilitated his relationship with his own children. Up to this point, I'm willing to bet that you thought, "Oh, he's just busy. I'll help him out by calling, running them over, etc." Now you (and sadly, the kids) will begin to see just how much he is not willing to make the effort to be part of their lives, and how deeply his choices are going to harm the relationship with the kids. Please do not cover for him. Please allow him to face the consequences of his choices. Be honest with the kids...help them face and deal with how hurt and upset they are...give them appropriate tools for their anger--but do not protect HIM from the choices he is making.
It's AWFULLY sad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />...isn't it??
Your faithful friend,
CJ
CJ,
You are right on target with it all. Thanks! Am going to send a change thru "the system' to tell Drac that if he wants to talk to the kids, then he can call the Kid Phone. Period. I will do the same when he has them.
Nothing more, nothing less needs to be said. This will be much easier for everyone, mostly Me!
I hate to admit that you are right about bolsterin his R with the kids. In fact, I am sure I will be surprised as it progresses. I will own up to being angry when he called DD tonight, as the thought that crossed my mind was 'well, now that the Ho has gone, you FINALLY have time for your kids!'. Jerk!
So then I just sang louder to myself and moved on.
Am putting DD to bed. Nite all!
Bugs-
I just had to tell you that you are doing great!
It is great to see that you have such a wonderful R with your FIL. My MIL is the same way, whatever she can help me with, she will. I do not impose on her, but I know that if I need her, she is there. And that is great. A great testament to wonderful, family orientated people.
You sound vibrant, and happy, the house sounds wonderful, I wish you all of the best!!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Tonight I'm not doing so well...but I'll get back to where I was...
Good to hear things are moving for you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Supporting you all the way!
It must feel great to know that you won't have to look at the same house all set up in the same way. That will be a stress reliever in itself.
That is the part that gets me the most. Coming thru that door and just praying that he's there waiting for us. Maybe one day....
You are doing such a great job. Keep up the good work !!
So then I just sang louder to myself and moved on.
TO THE LEFT..TO THE LEFT... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
Welcome to Monday.
Today, Drac will show UP.
"How could you do all these things behind my BACK!"
Buy a House
Tell the kids
Talk with FIL.
Etc.
And he can do it because you work for the same company, and he can walk into your office at any time.
Remember that.
So be ready. If need be, inform your boss, etc., that if Drac comes by, you may need to leave suddenly, and with out reason. Have your Boss call you from his cell phone when the coast is clear.
Just like LilSis, you may have to cut back on discussions with FIL.
FIL is STILL enabling Drac's A.
SO, be careful with that.
Good luck on your journey. You have charted a course, and that is always a good thing.
LG
Good afternoon, everyone!
I have been busy this morning. I talked first thing with my lender, which was great. I have made calls to arrange the house inspection, the termite inspection, and gotten quotes for homeowner's insurance. I emailed my attorney to have her send Drac's attorney a letter informing him of the pending move, of the purchase of the house, and to have him sign the necessary waiver so that the deed will be in my name only.
As I am using MY 1/2 of the joint savings account as the down payment and there will be no "equity" in the house in which he would have an interest, I am hoping he will sign the waiver with no issues. HOPING, but not counting on it. I will just have to "prove" to them there will be nothing but DEBT if he would want to have his name on MY house. Should be no problems there. I am not going to worry about it. Frankly, the attitude I have had through this house buying/moving thing is that it will all work out when and how it is supposed to work out. My worrying about any of it won't change or help a thing, so I won't worry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
LG,
Thanks for the warning in that Drac might show up,,,,although I totally doubt it. At least I have a "plan", should it come to pass. The good thing is that my boss is hundreds of miles away, so I can get up, lock the door, and leave any time I need to. Even if he were here, he'd tell me to "do what ya gotta do". He's great!
Not to spend too much time or energy on Drac, but I have to say this. Right now, I don't think he gives a good golly about me in any way other than how it might effect him financially. He's enjoying his freedom and "living his life the way he wants and doesn't care what ANYONE thinks". He believes this is all a GOOD thing and it's what he's wanted for "SO LONG". Well, that's what he is getting.
My personal feeling is that he has done such a great job of re-writing history, putting all of the negatives on me, and totally justifying his actions to himself that even if he were fully into the A, he'd still be proceeding with the D. He's determined on the path he as set for himself and nothing or no one will deter him. In fact, he's done such a good job at this that I wonder if that day will ever come when he realizes what he is losing in me?! I've read a great deal of Mimi's Plan B thread and it has been very helpful. I just don't see Drac as being the kind of cake eater that her WH was with her. Drac has been firm in his mantra of not wanting me or the M from the beginning of this last year. Yes, he came by a few times for a "fix" with me, but those were merely fleeting moments. I don't see that there was a clear "need" for me, just a momentary satisfaction. I don't see him coming back. He's really adjusted to his new single life over the last 7 months and isn't about to give it up. His living conditions at FIL's are less than ideal, so his moving back to the house will make him even more comfortable, I think.
Regarding FIL,,, I do see that his is enabling, but I do not blame him or expect him to do anything differently. This is his son and he loves him. I may not have mentioned before, however, that Drac & FIL have had a few discussions about how Drac does not like that FIL & I talk. FIL told Drac, that's too bad, because FIL will not stop talking to me and he will be my friend unless I don't want him as a friend anymore. He really is a dear man.
Funny thing just happened,,,,,,,Drac has a new hire that was accidentally transferred to my phone when he was trying to reach the IT person. I took a message and then asked if he was the new "x' there. He said yes. So I told him " Congratulations! Welcome aboard! I am sure you are going to like our company and you have a Great boss over there". He sounded a bit funny when he replied, "Oh, is that right?" I don't know if he knew "who" he was talking to or not, but it made me LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well, now that was WAY too much time and energy on Drac, wasn't it??? Sorry! Bugs has given herself a minor slap on the wrist! No more Drac talk. Back to work and Bugs Life! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Yes, he came by a few times for a "fix" with me, but those were merely fleeting moments. I don't see that there was a clear "need" for me, just a momentary satisfaction.
BULLCRAP, Bugs...I can understand you not wanting to get your hopes up..and no one can know if Drac will return..
BUT..more than the SF or anything else..my H missed MY FRIENDSHIP..conversations with me..talking about his life..hearing my perspective..he missed the ME that was his FRIEND...
We will not buy that he will not SUFFER THE LOSS of YOU and those DAILY CONVERSATIONS...
CONVERSATION..a PRIMARY EN of his that the OW will have to meet TOTALLY...
Mimi,
I love it when you cuss! Ha LOL!
I think there is a chance that he will miss the conversation, Eventually, maybe.
And maybe someday he will remember how he liked & admired my independence/self sufficient ways. For today, he will probably take my buying the house as another sign that, as he told me, 'you will be just fine'
And you know what, I know I will be.
But, I would rather be Happy with my Husband!
Bugs:
You call it a "fix".
It certainly wasn't Bug Spray.
Cuz he kept coming by.
Now, he needs to leave at 5 to get kids. No Bugs to pick up the slack.
FIL may get angry with Drac in regards to this,, but FIL will jump into the car and go get DSS and DD if Drac asks him to.
And if Drac is with OW, and FIL still does it.... Then that's enabling.
Move the money from your joint account for the down payment today to another account with your name only. Drac's Attorney will probably make a motion to void any transferrs that *might* be detrimental to his client.
Remember, in Mimi's case, the "for Sale" sign, and Mimi's signing the sales contract, really jolted her WH.
It just might be all you need....
Drac has been enjoying his time on the fence, he will not start to realize how much he did need you since Dday, and that realization is starting to dawn on him.
Cuz, he has only OW to turn to, and she WANTS nothing to do him his children.
Your doing great.
What's the plan this evening?
LG
LG,
Bug Spray! Good one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Funny you brought up my share of the savings, as I had JUST hung up the phone from having done a telephone transfer of exactly my half into MY checking account!
We had both left it alone up until now, although my A did advise me to move it right from the beginning. It will likely stir the pot, but it was the right thing to do and the right time to do it.
For tonight! DD and I will be playing outside, making dinnder together, and then planning some decorations for her new room! Am letting her pick out what she wants.
and then planning some decorations for her new room! Am letting her pick out what she wants.
Ahhhhhh...a little goddess-in-training...PRINCESS BUGS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Does she have some COOL LITTLE SHADES?
How FUN!
What a great way to get her excited about the move.
Has she seen her new school yet?
When can you move in?
Wow are you going to be busy for the next few weeks!
Mimi,
Actually, I could probably take some Goddess lessons from DD, my little Diva! Oh yes, she had 2 or 3 different pairs of shades and loves cranking the Girl tunes in the car with me!
Lexxy,
We have to get inspections & appraisal done before we can set the closing. We wil be able to get in 7 days after the close.
We haven't gone by her new school yet. I am planning to go there to register her this week! One more thing for my list of to do's! Gotta call current district for a copy of her record.
Gonna jump offf here right now and do that!
Busy busy busy!
Brief update.
Picked up DD from sitter at usual time DSS was already gone, as Drac had his friend
R pick him up. DSS won't be at sitter's tomorrow either, he is staying at R's house.
Seems Drac has to 'close' the office all week and will be late. Obviously does not want to deal with the sitter (HIS Aunt). He asked her today why I changed "the schedule" and was complaining about it because of his hours. Too bad. Sitter told him she did not know why I changed. He did call and talk to DD 2x today. He did ask her about the new house.
He also sent a message, which apparently was just an FYI about a 3 day out of town meeting he has at the end of the month. Not my problem, as DD & I will be long gone.
DD & I are outside playing. Then are eating dinner outside on the deck tonight!
Your life with your DD sounds sooo sweet.
I wouldn't trade my boys for anything..but they always said that I am too "girly" to have them...cause they are so rough and tough...
Maybe they will make me a girl grandbaby someday... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
It sounds like you are having such a great time with DD. Mine doesn't want to do to much with me since daddy moved out.
I am building her a tent indoors though. She has all her stuffed animals set up in a corner of the room.
You must remember bugs, drac is a taker right now. It is all about him. You have to just pray about the influences in his life and how they need to change. And as it says in ROMANS for all sin to be bannished from his life, adultery, hatred, selfcenteredness, etc, and for him to be filled with the spiritual blessings of Love, patience, kindness, unselfishness...
Things can change, but you must not forget to pray for it to happen in the midst of all the excitement going on for you now.
Wow -- I am picturing a MINI Mimi!! Cool!
INeed, I have placed Drac and his care firmly in the Lord's hands! I do continue to pray for him, just as I have all along, including that day outside of the courtroom.
Sorry your DD is feeling down. I love the indoor tent idea, my DD and I do that a lot and have indoor parties. We also play 'movie theater' turning out all of the lights, making a tent, watching movies, eating popcorn & drinking soda!
I think Drac is hurting a bit financially, as he had canceled the insurance on his and DSS's 4 wheelers. For some reason, he did not cancel on DD's?! He has also apparently gotten a PO box or moved some of his mail to a different address. I have noticed several bills no longer come to the house. Whatever.
DD did call him last night, while I occupied myself elsewhere.
I am feeling a but of withdrawl, but not too, too much. I do think about him, wonder what/how he is doing, as well as I still get those images of him & the Ho together from time to time. I just try to push them away and stay busy. As he had virtually done a total withdrawl from me already, life does not seem much different, other than I spend a lot less time worrying about him, if he is going to call, how the call will go, how can I figure out a way to see him,etc.
It has been less than a week of Plan B, but I have yet to cry. I wonder about that--have I let him push me too far to where it my love is gone??
Hey Bugs (shining a flashlight around)
It has been less than a week of Plan B, but I have yet to cry. I wonder about that--have I let him push me too far to where it my love is gone??
I have wondered this about myself.
I do think about him, wonder what/how he is doing,
LOVE still there...
It has been less than a week of Plan B, but I have yet to cry. I wonder about that--have I let him push me too far to where it my love is gone??
It all comes RUSHING back in..when and if you see him..
That's what got me into trouble... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I think you've done a fabulous job of occupying yourself and protecting yourself.
I don't think your love is gone. Its just safely protected.
Will you be packing and moving yourself? Or hire movers to come and do it for you?
Sorting through everything could bring some triggers, be prepared!
I suggest boxing up his stuff and not spending much time going through it....
IF H ever comes back, I hope you are all right. If NOT, then I guess I am on my way to my own recovery. Either way, I am setting it aside for now. I have other things to think about!
Last night DD ended up having neighbor girls over to play. I was mentally exhausted, so I sat down and read some of the new Harry Potter book! We ate dinner and then I tried to get DD to bed earlier than she has been going. It is time to start getting back on 'school' schedule
Speaking of which, I called the school, they are faxing me her physical form. I also talked to the dr office, they will complete based on her last physical and also fax me her shot records. So Good news is I don't have to take her to the dr before the 15th!
Am now going to ck with my agent on scheduling of the inspections,,she was to set those up yesterday but I have not heard from her
I will be moving 'myself'. That means mt entire family and a host of friends will be there to help! Am renting a truck so that we can do all in one trip,, it is over an hour 1 way. Guess I will call some places today to get prices.
Thanks for the tip on triggers, Lexxx. I won't be packing ANY of his stuff, as he will be returning to live there when I am gone. Though I was looking at pics on the walls last night,,of our wedding especially. Not sure if I want to take them all, or maybe leave some so HE will be forced to look at them and/or put them away.
Lots to do! Thank goodness!
Jealous....I want to read the new book but I still have one to go before that one...the half-blood prince I think?
And I just know I'm gonna run across a spoiler before I get to the new one! Too much publicity not to...
I've been sort of considering a move myself. I love my house and the location -- but it might be wise financially.
I've found another house that would be fun -- but its really too big. Its 5 bedrooms...and my household is shrinking not growing. But -- its gorgeous. Huge yard, secluded, all the amenities....
So....need to think about it.
So Drac will be moving back into YOUR space? I think I'd leave behind some panties...HEHEHEHE
Lexxx,
It is So tempting to go for what we WANT vs what fits our lives when it comes to beautiful houses. I like this place a lot, but know I will not be there forever. It works for now.
I let DSS read the book first and he finished in a day. Am sure he stayed up all night! That's ok. He loves to read and HP has been his 'thing' from tjhe beginning. But, like you, I want to get through it before someone spoils it!
In my recent mood, I have had thought more of leaving an egg hidden in the attic and one in th basement,,so they can rot & eventually break leaving a delicious aroma for Drac!! My sister told me about a woman who put shrimp inside the curtain rods of her WH's house!! LOL!
Maybe by the time arrives I will consider the panties. I found a t-shirt that Drac very OBVIOUSLY left behind. It was from our honeymoon and eve says so on the back. I will admist to wearing it as a nightgown a few nights this week. Think I am going to leave it spread out on the bed when I leave.
That makes me sad. He will probably just throw it away.
He will probably just throw it away.
yeah...and to quote Kayla "your lightbulbs unscrew themselves"....
I understand that protection mindset -- but really girl give yourself more credit!!!
Lexxx,,,
I LOVE that quote from Kayla! It still makes me laugh!
Part if my statement is because of self preservation, not getting my hopes up. Another part is based on how I know Drac. If he is getting support to go forward with the D (which he is), and if he has convinced himself that he has been 'wronged' (which he has), I see very little chance of him turning around for even much of a glance backwards in my direction. Just the way I see it.
Knowing that does not lay me out into a sobbing heap of sadness. It hurts, but I am doing ok with it.
He has gone on a few times about how he has 'changed' and he has changed. Not for the better IMHO. He is much less giving, much less tolerant, etc in all aspects of his life. Until he realizes that is not a good thing, nothing will get better for him.
In my heart I know I did a good Plan A. In my heart I know I have made great changes and grown a lot for the better. I just have a hard time believing that any of it has or will make a difference when it comes to Drac.
Does that make sense? I Can and Do give myself credit for what I have done & am doing,,,, but can not seem to see it applying to my sitch with him
Bugs:
Here was my thought....
Keep the t-shirt.
Heck, you went too!
But take a picture of you in it. And leave that behind for him to find.
Nothing but the shirt however....Pull it down for some modesty.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
You need a self-timer on the camera for it.
Leave them in various places around the house for him to find after you have moved out....
Just me being rude.
And about this:
"He has gone on a few times about how he has 'changed' and he has changed. Not for the better IMHO. He is much less giving, much less tolerant, etc in all aspects of his life. Until he realizes that is not a good thing, nothing will get better for him."
He's right, he's wayward.
He has changed. Now he needs to return.
His choice.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
LG
LG,
So typical of you to be rude, but also suggest "modesty"!! Mom always told me it's not what you SHOW, but what you HINT at that is the most sexy!!!
Yep, it is his choice. For now, I operate in my life as if his current choice to be wayward IS the final choice. I don't have to like it, but I do have to go past it and live MY life
I got some good work done today and have a good day planned for tomorrow. Tonight am going to leave a bit early to go tan.
Later!
And leave that behind for him to find.
You know the legalistic side of me could really misconstrue this sentence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
You are not losing your love for him. God is just making you a stronger person and enabling you to go through some of the toughest times.
Isn't it funny how god gave women the emotions, but he also gives us the strenght to get through just about anything, but when our man gets sick oh, how the rugged just wimper.
yesterday is history, tommorrow is a mystery, today is a gift...that is why they call it the present.
Enjoy your gift from GOD. Don't worry about tomorrow, just enjoy what GOD gives you today. GOD will work out the other days for us... one day at a time !!!
Don't let anyone tell you to give up hope....
Remember what GOD says.... have hope, be patient and pray at all times.
Keep working on yourself and ask GOD if there is anything else that needs changed in your life, and how you can become closer to him.
It hurts us so bad to see the darkness in our husbands. We want to reach out so bad and help them. The reality is the only way to help them is to pray. God already knows whether they will be saved or not. Their only choice is how they will be saved. Our only choice is to follow GOD's wisdom and wait for them to ask for repentance and to allow god to be the shepherd for his lost sheep, and lead them back to the green pastures where we are.
Today I was comforted by saying the passage said most times at the funeral homes. Yea, thou I walk....
It is so fitting for us now. We are walking through the valley of the shadow of death, I will feel no evil.
Of course, I like to replace doubt with death. Our husbands are in the valley of the shadow of death. They are choosing death over life right now, and we must not give in to evil, but remain strong. YES we have doubts, but we WILL NOT let doubt rule us !! Satan brings doubt and death, WE KNOW that GOD will win this battle. HE WILL bring our wayward spouses home. Keep believing in that !!
Meggy, you naughty girl! LOL!
INeed,
I am amazed all of the time by the blessing of strenth!
Nothing really new to report. Am in day 7 of Plan B and no attempts by Drac to break through the darkness.
For those of you who have done Plan B, I guess it is 'normal' to feel a bit of a let down at this point? After getting prepared for any attempt to contact me, the fact that he has not even tried at all is a bit disheartening. Is it usual to feel disappointed, even though I know that no contact with him is truly better for me?
I know that chances are more likely than not that even If he did try to contact me, he is no where ready to attempt any real recovery at this point. Yet, the longing remains. As I said before, he pulled away from me so much already, I doubt that this is much different for him, and likely to be a 'relief' in his eyes as well.
Just feeling a bit down today in thinking 'well, this is more proof he doesn't want me' kind of thinking.
I know it is a pity party that I need to leave. So, for today, I am going to work steady for the next hour with no interruptions. Then will call my A if I have not heard from her by that time. After which I will call the lender about the appraisal. Then am going to contact my friends J and A about getting together after work as DD will be with Drac tonight.
Staying busy!!
Bugs:
Your feeling "normal"
You want a reaction.
You want this horrible rotten person that your WH has become to MISS YOU.
And to come to his senses.
He might have to get hit by a bus first.
But that KARMA BUS has left the station.
It's traveling to Drac's pick up point, he just doesn't know where it is yet.
You did a mar-vel-ous Plan A.
You looked inside Bugs, and emerged the butterfly.
You showed that metamorphis (sp?) to Drac.
His choice.
Plan B is designed to stop damaging your heart, that you put out there during Plan A, to give, with no expectation of receiving. Your not a TAKER right now, and will probably never be. You are just someone who decided it was time to step off the caroseul.
Let Drac ride. The Karma bus will pick him up when he decides to step off.
(((BUGS)))
LG
PS: How much more have you told DSS about the change in the sitch? Send him a card at FIL's. Light-hearted and fun, goofy, and happy... You have DD, and can talk to her, but NO ONE is talking, or listening, to DSS now.
LG
Didn't you decide to LET GO and LET GOD...
Have FAITH in HIM. HE is the ONE who will never leave you or forsake you.
Have FAITH that HE is working this out for you.
Having FAITH means that you need to STOP yourself from having those NEGATIVE THOUGHTS about this. I'm not saying that those thoughts aren't normal. I'm encouraging you to SHOO THEM AWAY...
Who knows what can get transmitted through the universe?
Replace the NEGATIVE THOUGHTS with the FAITH-FILLED thoughts that INEED is providing. I love her messages to you!!
Remind yourself that you, your DD and DS are wrapped up in the arms of JESUS.
Bug:
Put a smile on that face....Radiate your Love of God towards others and see how happy you will feel.
WILL post more later...going to bible study.
Bugs:
DO NOT let the enemy tell you that you are too busy, or that praying does not make a difference, or praying the scriptures does not really work. Believe what the word of the Lord says and pray for Drac to fear God and to hate evil. The Lord will not stop calling his name to repent and turn from his sinful ways.
"THe Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth. He fulfills the desires of those who fear him; he hears their cries and saves them." Psalm 145:18-19
Never forget that the enemy has deceived, tempted and seduced Drac to falling into sin and now he is living in darkness, in a prison where he can not see or find a way out. Remember the promises of GOD and speak them daily.
"Lord, bring Drac out of the darkness and deepest gloom and break away his chains" Psalm 107:14
"Lord, we know you speak one way, and then another even though we may not see it you are answering our prayers. In a dream, in a vision of the night , when deep sleep falls on Drac as he sleeps, speak in his ears and terrify him with your warnings Lord. Turn him from wrong doing and keep him from pride, to preserve his souil from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword." Job 33:12-18
"An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of Drac: there is no fear of God before his eyes. For his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin." Psalm 36:1-2 Please open his eyes and ears and allow him to see your truths Lord.
"No one whose hope is in you will EVER be put to shame. You are God, my savior, and my hope is in you all day long." Psalm 25:3-5
Lord, you hold my faith, my stength and my hope for reconciling this marriage. I will stand no matter what and ignore the doubts that the enemy tries to fill my mind with. Please put your helmet on me and allow me to only see your truths lord. I will be patient, and I will Endure while you are working in Drac. Thank you Lord, for moving the mountain that I can not see right now. I anxiously wait for what is on the other side.
INeed & Mimi,
thanks for the continued spiritual direction! I really, really, really, needed it last night and this morning. Actually, I spent quite a bit of time yesterday reading the word, in prayer, and in PRAISE. I continue to pray for Drac, especially RIGHT NOW, as things are not good at all.
I received a "response" again from Drac's attorney. Bottom line is that he has produced documents showing that when he refinanced the house in 2003, he took out a substantial amount of money to pay off his credit card and his 4-wheeler. He has produced NO proof that the credit card was "marital" debt. However, he thinks that he can leverage my wanting to buy this house, as he does have to sign a marital waiver for me to be able to close. He's trying to hold that over my head so that bottomline, he is going to walk away giving me $1,000 for each year that we have been married as a total settlement!
Now, before I go on about how upset I got at first, let me say that it only lasted a brief amount of time, as I truly felt and do feel that it is all going to work out just fine. I do truly trust that ALL of this is in God's hands. My faith and trust revealed itself with a phone call I received last night from my Dad. Long story short, my parents have offered to buy the house in their name if Drac refuses to sign the waiver. They will rent it to me until the case is settled. I cried so HARD, I could hardly speak on the phone with my Dad. I was completely overwhelmed and still am. Even through the darkest of times, God continues to bless me so much!!
I have emailed my attorney with my counter to Drac, asking that he sign a marital waiver for the purchase of my house, and in exchange, I will waive my right to the additional "equity" from the amount he took out during the refinance. I am still holding firm on most of the remainder of my original offer. My dad asked only 1 thing of me if he does purchase the house, and that is to NOT give in to Drac and to fight for what is right in the settlement. While it's hard to hold out hope for recovery of my marriage under these circumstances. I feel like I am in such a battle with Drac, I know I have to hold hope AND do the right thing in protecting myself & DD financially.
I don't think I've ever been through anything harder in my LIFE! Thank goodness for the strength God continues to give me or I'd be laid out on the floor right now!!
I am going to call my A to discuss this shortly. I am giving Drac until 3pm tomorrow to sign the waiver.
I just want this over! I Hate feeling like this is a war
My dad asked only 1 thing of me if he does purchase the house, and that is to NOT give in to Drac and to fight for what is right in the settlement.
Does this mean your dad is asking you not to reconcile with DRAC if things changed?
No,,, he wants me to fight to have a fair financial settlement. He means do not give in when it comes to getting one half of everything we have built during our marriage. He knows how hard I have worked and how much I have contributed financially to my marriage and does not want to see me on the losing end of any settlement
I am sure he will be very hard to win back over if/when any recovery comes along. However, this is my family and they will support me, even reluctantly, no matter what my choice. They are of course, concerned only for my best interest and welfare no matter what. That is what 'WE' do as a family. We always have and always will.
Oh, that's good (sigh of relief). I was concerned for you if that wasn't the case. You are SO fortunate and BLESSED to have such a supportive family.
My MIL "helped" me when we were separated but made the statement, "I'll never speak to you again if you take him back." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
We don't talk much now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Meggy,,
It would be an uphill battle, no doubt, but I will cross that bridge when I get there.
One item you may have missed on my previous thread- Dear Dad has cheated on Mom 2x that we know of. The last time was 6 years ago. I think him doing this for me is partially a way to try to atone for his own infidelity.
We all fully supported my Mom when she moved out that last time. AND we all fully supported her decision to reconcile with him. It is her life and was her choice. We would have supported her also should she have chosen to D.
I am truly blessed with a wonderful family. All my siblings are worried about scheduling the move date! They want to all be there to help.
Drac does not realize what he is losing in them, either!
Well, Drac's A has the letter on my response and has until 3pm tomorrow to sign the waiver for me to buy my house.
I was just sitting here, feeling exhausted, and wondering some things to myself.
How in the heck does a WS ever turn around to want to recover the M after all of the b*llsh*t we are going through on the financial stuff? I mean really? Drac is sitting there very angry that he is getting 'scr*wed' by Bugs financially.
How is it possible that he would ever move past that and see anything positive about me ever again???
Bugs:
Your worried about his "opinion" of the financial settlement?
How about you getting past his continued infidelity?
NOW that is a mountain to climb....
About the house: You lawyer could have your parents on the title, the debt will be in your name, and then after settlement, your parents sign a quit-claim and release the house to you. Run that by your lawyer.
What ya doing tonight?
My son is up on the stage, tonight! Gonna be great!
LG
I agree with LG Bugs....
I think your time would be better spent analyzing whether you feel like overcoming HIS behavior, not yours.
Really...have you done anything wrong here? Would any sane, rational person have a problem with your "fairness" when it comes to this financial settlement?
I don't think you need to worry about his ability to overcome anything. When this hits him, he will be begging for your forgiveness...and financial battles will be forgotten.
WONDERFUL news on the house. Nice to know its yours no matter what.
Sounds like you have a great family. Have you and Dad ever had a heart to heart about his affairs?
Has he ever reached out to Drac?
LG & Lexxx,
Thanks guys,, I am just feeling in a funk today.
I Know that I am doing what is right and what is fair. Of that I do not have any doubt. I guess knowing what I have learned here, that it IS possible to heal a M after an A, I do not really question my ability to climb that mountain to recover my M. On the other hand, I do question Drac's ability to ever see that as being possible.
But, what is wondering about Drac getting me beside down & depressed? So, I have been trying different things to pull me out of the funk. Been reading Scripture which makes me feel loved, yet in my emotional state, it also makes me cry.
I went out and spent a nice amount on moving boxes, storage bags, and plastic totes. Plan to go ahead with packing. No matter what happens, DD and I are outta there in a couple of weeks.
Regarding my Dad, no we have never discussed his A's. He isn't one for sharing feelings, shwoing affection, or talking about problems at all. He has gotten better with time, as well as the fact that I just do it when I am around him. Things like giving him hugs & kisses, and saying I love you. He tries best as he can
No. He as not reached out to Drac. Not his way. He rarely in his life has owned up to being wrong about anything, so him using his experience to try to help Drac just won't happen. Plus, I think if he 'reached out' it would be due to the urge to slug Drac, not help him!
I am feeling like everything is so surreal right now. Is this Really my life?
I do not want to sound unknowing or ungrateful for the many blessings I have and continue to receive - I just still have that voice inside me asking WHY am I even having to go through all of this.
I know God has his plan and it is my place to be patient as He works it all together for my good and His Glory.
But I do not think he minds me being honest about feeling pretty crappy about it sometimes!
Bugs:
Bugs to Dad: Drac has left, why didn't you ever leave? What made you stay?
See what happens.
Because what ever skills you learn from talking with Dad, will have to be used with Drac.
LG
Interesting idea, LG. Will try that when the opportunity presents itself.
I came home a bit early to pull myself together a bit before going to pick up the kiddos tonight. Am feeling a tiny bit better.
LG - - What's the show tonight?? I am sure DS will give a magnificent (or should I say MAH-VE-LOUS) performance!
You know, I was standing at the sink the other night when DD was playing outside with the neighbor girls, listening to the wonderful, pure sound of her laughter and I thought that there isn't a better, more perfect, or beautiful sound in the entire world. THAT is what I am thinking about now. THAT is what helps continue to pull me up and through all of this.
No matter what Drac does, no matter how much he hurts me, I am going to do everything in my power to help DD make that sound everyday for the rest of her life.
I am just extremely anxious to have an answer from Drac so that I can get going on the house,, time is short and I need to have a more specific plan in place.
Am going to play outside w/the kids for a while, make dinner, brew up some ButterBeer, and call it an early night for the kids. AM hoping to feel up to doing some packing after they are in bed.
LG - tell DS to "break a leg" tonight!!
Bugs:
It was a Mah-VE-Lous show....
Brought a tear to me eye.
And I was holding the hand of Flamingo through the whole thing.
So, I understand about the sound of laughter....Wanting to keep it going...
I was lucky to find a way back for that.
About the "break a leg" thing? DS broke his ARM three days before his performance as a lead 4 years ago.
LG
LG,
I knew the show would be great!
Re: your being 'lucky', my friend, luck had little to do with it. You were smart enough to see what you were losing and man enough to admit you were wrong, and loving enough to do whatever necessary to Earn your way back to a wonderful M with Flamingo!
So, I have completed week 1 in almost total darkness. I have had no contact w/Drac at all other than letting him know of DD's dr appt. That is if you do not count attorney communications.
He has stuck VERY strictly to the contact methods with the kids, even going as far as calling them precisely On Time every night. What's up with that??
So, he now has just over 4 hours to sign the marital waiver on MY new house. Anyone want to lay down some bets on if he signs it or not?
Either way, today I feel somewhat at peace. It is in God's hands now. DD and I will be moving in just a couple of weeks no matter what he does or does not do. I just want to know ao that I can finalize my plans.
Drac has the kids for the weekend, so I am putting on my old (yet Goddess-like) clothes and going into full pack up the house mode this weekend.
One thing that was hard for me last night,,,DD telling me something about the HO during which she says 'I really like her and think she is nice".
I would feel absolutely no regret/remorse about telling DD that the HO is wrecking her home and family.
That daddy would be home if not for HO.
That "nice" people don't steal daddies from their family.
No guilt whatsoever. IMO, kids need to know. Even 6 year olds. You are her ONLY moral compass right now Bugs.
And if it makes DD question her daddy....so be it.
Its about time he explained himself to her.
Plan B signals a huge loss of control for the WS. So my guess is that he will NOT sign the waiver -- just as a measure of control over you.
Go to Plan B on the house too -- meaning let your parents help.
Lexxx,
I did review with DD again that Daddy and Mommy are still married and that what Daddy & the ho are doing is WRONG.
I did not push it and let her change the subject when she wanted to move on. I do not feel badly about it other than it is confusing for her. I refuse to LIE and give any indication that their R is OK in any way.
I personally do not think Drac will sign either. He wants the D 'to be finished' but he certainly is not willing to give anything on his end to make it happen. It is still only about him, His life, His money, His freedom, etc. As it is certainly not going according to 'plan' for him, who knows what he will do now?
I am sure he & the Ho are united in it being all Bugs fault. HE is going to lose 'everything', it's Bugs fault he can not afford to move closer to her yet, it's Bug's fault that he can't spend more time with DSS. It's Bug's fault that there is global warming, too!
Eventually, if it goes on long enough, the Ho will get tired of it and then the reality really begins. I understand she is very high maintenance so the pressure will come on pretty quick if she is unhappy. I have a feeling they have a LOT more drama and game playing to go through before they are finished. They already broke up once, but that was MY fault. Who will they blame now?
Meanwhile Bugs and DD, after much work, will be snug in their new home, playing in the new pool, making new friends at the new school, and generally enjoying life!
Thank GOD (!!!) that you have a back up plan on the house.
Can you imagine if you had to rely on his signing? Then he really would be able to use that as a negotiation point.
As it is, when his attorney counter offers something regarding that waiver -- your attorney can say "go to **LL!"
Have fun packing this weekend!
Can you imagine if you had to rely on his signing? Then he really would be able to use that as a negotiation point.
As it is, when his attorney counter offers something regarding that waiver -- your attorney can say "go to **LL!"
And boy won't DRAC be surprised!! Love to be a fly on the wall when he tells HO it didn't work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am telling you,he is going to me sorely disappointed when I do tell him to go to he77 on anything other than signing and giving me what I have asked for.
Even if I did not have my backup plan on the house, I had already decided that I was not giving in. If he did not sign, I was going to live @ my parents in the basement for the school year. I wasn't backing down no matter what and I am still not.
Gee -- if you think about this, maybe my parents were so scared of me living there again, THAT was what motivated them to buy the house! LOL! Just kidding! They really are just being generous. I think my Mom would love to have me & DD in her house to spoil! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well, less than an hour to deadline. Not holding my breath, that's for sure.
Ohhh,,I really can not WAIT.
Is that wrong of me? To want to basically give him the finger?!
I don't find it wrong at all....heeheehee.
There are so few instances where you get to have the secret back-up plan! Usually it is the WS having the secrets!
Is your attorney good about updating you?
What exactly happens at 3pm?
Lexxx,
I gave him til 3pm to sign the marital waiver as I have a home inspection scheduled Monday afternoon. I did not want to have to pay for an inspection if I could not buy the house. That was before I had the backup plan.
My A just emailed me. Here is what she sent and then my reply to her.
I got a fax from Mr.Drac's attorney rejecting the counter-offer I sent him yesterday. He refers to your counter-offer as "sordid" and now suggests that everything that is marital property (all real estate, time share, cars, household items, etc.) be sold and the proceeds used to pay off all mortgages and credit card debt in either parties' name with the remaining proceeds split equally. He also wants to divide the marital portion of all retirement benefits equally.
The problem with this is that there is no mention of a sale of any of the separate property accumulated by Mr. Drac during the term of the marriage (ATV's etc.) and I believe that his separate credit card debt exceeds yours (not to mention the fact that his separate debt was paid off with marital assets previously).
I guess this means that you won't be getting your marital waiver by 3:00 p.m.
Let me know if you want me to respond.
Dear A,
How about a simple Kiss My [censored]? Is that a proper Legal phrase?
His credit card debt is over $16K (back in April when he filed it was only $11K) This is the SAME card he paid off with the refinance Dec of 2003
Mine is less than $1K
He's mad. He's not getting his way and thinks he's going to scare me. Let them stew for today. We can respond next week.
In the meantime, please be thinking about what you suggest as a proper response. I say we go forward with my last offer, with the exception of the discount for signing the waiver, since he didn't sign it.
Have a Great weekend.
SORDID? What is SORDID is him having an AFFAIR!
Wow. So I can be sordid and not be a low down no good cheating POS?
So, any comments??
Thoughts?
Snappy come backs?
Poor Drac. Boy he is really going to 'give it to ol Bugs now! How DARE she ruin his plans! How DARE she insist he do the right thing!'.
HO will be ready and waiting with open arms and tons of sympathy! FOR NOW. How can she not see that if they continue, someday SHE will be in MY shoes right now??
Sordid? ROFLMAO. That's classic. Stick to your guns Bugs, see who blinks first. I'm bettin' my money on DRAC. He's about to hit full panic mode.
She doesn't think that because she thinks she's better than you! They ALL think that! It's part of the game...
The it won't happen to me!
Screw Drac and POWS! We'll sock it to them! LMAO
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
Tell your attorney to respond as needed.
Just do what ever has to happen, at the last possible moment.
Remember, you want the M, not the House.
You have proved your point already.
However, be sure to ask your attorney to use the word "sordid" in any reply, preferably with a reference from websters dictionary.
I.E. We find the use of sordid in you most recent fax to be interesting, as my client has been above board and transparent in all her dealing both during the Divorce proceeding and her marriage to plaintiff. ZING!
But, you are in plan B. Let your Attorney do her job. Your Attorney CAN ratchet up certain things now that you are in Plan B, but otherwise, just ignore the madness.
Discuss with your attorney the title issues I described above. Point out the the quit-claim can be dated the day after the dissolution of your M, or any other day you see fit.
(((BUGS)))
LG
Hey everybody!
I am really doing better than I expected with this whole thing. Have a PLAN makes a huge difference, doesn't it.
My A will deal with the legalities. I LOVE the idea of using the word Sordid in MY response! Good one LG!
On the Plan B for the house. M & D are already on it getting their part lined up. Plan is for them to come along Monday for the inspection and sign a contract in their name things will proceed as planned, just under their names and not mine. A few minor details to iron out, but is should not effect the timeframe. I am telling NO ONE but you all about the house Plan B.
I do not want to run the risk of Drac finding out just yet. All will be revealed in good time.
So, am thinking opf chinese for dinner with a nice bottle of wine.
Hmmm.... Chineese... that is what my daughter and I had last night. Then we went and saw the oscar meyer weiner mobile.
Consider yourself lucky that you can get a new house and that the other one can be sold. My husband when he started in this depression went out and took a second mortgage which is at 120% of the house's value. I will not be able to sell the house and unless the courts give me really good help with spousal and child support, I will have to let it forclose. Not what I really want to do, but I don't make enough to pay that. I bring home 1200 per month and the house alone is 1000 per month. Doesn't leave me much for all the utilities. God will provide though.
Putting myself into fixing up the house. Painting the walls. Landscaping, etc. Just to keep busy. Had my rock wall fall down in front of the house. I'll be trying to rebuild that next weekend.
Tomorrow is amusement park day, so I will relax !!!
Have you done the school shopping with the kids yet ? Doing that today. They get so excited to get new things.
Bugs: I think you are doing an excellent job. Can't wait for the Lord to shepherd your one and leave the 99 behind. Hopefully mine won't be one of the 99.
Isn't it amazing as to how much strenght the Lord has given us. Think back to how you were when he first left and how you are now. God is taking care of us, he will eventually take care of our spouses.
The messages left for my daughter are so much nicer than before. I believe this is because he is starting to change, so I am preparing the house for his return.
I am also preparing myself for the worst. He wants my power washer and push weedwacker. Those were put on my sears charge and I will not let him have them. Moving them to my sisters for safe protection. Other then that I don't care what all I have. As long as we have the Lord and our children, really what else matters? We would love our husbands home, but at the same time, if they are one of the Lost that will stay Lost, do we want them then ? I know God has GREAT things planned for us. Hopefully it involves our husbands, but why strive ? He tells us not to, he has it all in HIS hands.
So don't worry....and I'll try not to worry...and we'll encourage each other. and we will SURVIVE !
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light" (Matthew 11:28-30).
Here are some steps to help you relax:
* Approach God first.
* Breathe deeply—in through your nose and out through your
mouth.
* Read the Bible out loud, slowly. Focus only on the words
you are saying.
* Go back and read the same passage again.
* Imagine your burdens are actual weights on the surface of
your body. Gently shake them off.
* Pray that God's Spirit will fill you and surround you
with peace and strength.
"The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms" (Deuteronomy 33:27).
Eternal Father, teach me to relax today. I will imagine Your strong, loving arms holding me steady so I can rest. Lord, my marriage is in your hands so I have no worries. I know you will battle the enemy for me. I pray that you will lift the fog covering Dracs eyes, soften his heart, and lift the blinders off his eyes so that he may know and understand what sin is and I pray that he may desire to have his family back. I pray this all through the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.
INeed,
Thanks for the relaxation tips! I used them well yesterday! I truly do feel very blessed. The Lord is taking very good care of me and DD. So many things could be so much worse, that is for sure.
On your house sitch, is your WH giving you ANY money? You really need to get that situation fixed NOW. Again, I will encourage you to get professional representation in that regard and get it resolved asap. No matter where your M ends up, it is vital that your finances are protected for both you and DD. Don't let it get out of hand. There is NO reason you should lose your home. Think about it,,,,, here you are telling me you are worried that you could lose your home but where is WH?? MEXICO?? That's not right.
So, Friday night I decided to have a relaxing evening. Did a bit of shopping on the way home and grabbed that chinese. Sat down and it was wonderful. I heard the garage door open and cousin-in-law was bringing back FIL's lawn mower. I went out to talk to him, it started raining, so he came in and we talked for a while. I got to hear more of the [email]BullCr@p[/email] that Drac has continued to spew about me and our sitch. Everything from the fact that he does not have a "girlfriend", to the reason that they "broke up" was because I was STALKING her and being MEAN?? Heck, I don'/t even know what she looks like! I just tried to laugh it off.
While we were talking, the kids called. They were in the Ho's area,,,playing laser tag, so guess it was another "family" night out. PUKE! Drac was obviously standing right there when they called because I heard him talking to DD while she was on the phone with me. I tried to brush it off, but it still hurt a lot!
Yesterday I was up bright and early. Mowed a bit of grass til the mower broke. Came in and I got through the entire basement! I organized and re-packed all of my storage bins. I separated them so that I know what I am taking and what I am leaving. I arranged it so that it looks like I am only taking my clothes and a few personal items. I know Drac will be in here looking around so I don't want to make it obvious as to what is going out the door with me just yet.
I then went back outside and fixed the mower! I finished mowing the entire yard, so I don't have to worry about Drac trying to come over here today to do it. I don't want him here.
I called the kids in the morning, but got no answer. I sent a text message a bit later and I know that they got it, but did not call back. I called last night and got no answer. A bit later DSS called. He said "I lost track of time. I had left the phone in Dad's car. Sorry". So, I am guessing that Drac has put the responsibility of remembering to call me on DSS. Interesting. Guess I don't feel too bad about doing the same thing now. If the kids remember to call, fine. If they don't, then he can call them. DD got on, they were at Drac's friend R's house and playing. She was telling me all about the laser tag last night. Seems they were supposed to go to a pool, but didn't because of the rain. She apparently asked DSS if "Daddy will be mad if I tell Mommy that we went to the Ho's house because her son wanted to go to the pool too". She went on to tell me that they went to laser tag, the back to the Ho's house, where they played because "Daddy and the Ho had to have a talk and then they went home really late"
Now, I know I'm not supposed to think about what they are up to, but it is darn hard. What does having a talk mean? The possibilities make me sick to my stomach!! I am trying VERY hard not to go there, but it is too, too hard!!
So, right now I am finishing up my coffee and starting on DD's room. Going to back up stuff I know she doesn't play with a lot, clean out old clothes and old toys, etc. Then it's on to files, the desk, and the kitchen. Hope to get a lot done today so that I'll not have much left other than the usual daily stuff we use all of the time when moving day comes.
Tomorrow afternoon is the home inspection, parents coming to see the house, and sign the contract. They are going to make the financial arrangements tomorrow morning, I think.
So will try to focus on MY life, MY plans and get the Drac thoughts outta my mind. I was reading Fox's thread,,,and I do understand what BR is trying to help her with. I have made a lot of changes and I feel very good about that, no matter the outcome of my M. However, let's be honest, I don't think any of us can say that we don't hope down deep in our hearts that the changes we've made won't in some way bring back our WS. It is that bit of hope that we keep alive that protects the possibility of recovery, isn't it?
Well, I am not up for deep thought this am. Just trying to be honest with myself I guess.
Have a great day everyone!
I was just over reading on Sadguy's thread and what BR wrote to him was just so good! In case you didn't catch it, here's the part of her post that hit me,,,
I'm happily married today...but 5 years ago....I was in your shoes...
Everyone has their own path to follow and you can't compare yours to theirs.
But ok....lets just talk about YOU. God can't possibly be right - your family needs to be intact....
But remember...
God allows EVERYONE to make choices. Including your wife.
And you my dear, not God, choose to tie your life to THIS woman.
You are not a victim here.
You also choose the behaviors that led to the environment of your marriage....
You just are not a victim of God's whim...
God can and will give you the support and strength you need...but only...if you ask. God can and will fix your situation....not according to YOUR plan, which is human and flawed...but to HIS plan...which is way cooler than anything you and I could think of....but only if you get the heck out of God's way.
God doesn't bully or force His will on people. If you choose to hang really tightly onto YOUR WILL for YOUR LIFE...God will let you do that. He won't interefere.
But if you ask, and step out of the way...He will perform miracles.
Thats what I mean by letting go. Let Go of YOUR WILL, YOUR WAY, YOUR BLUEPRINT for "How it is supposed to be" and let God show you His Plan.
I can promise you, I know from experience...that as long as you insist on it being your way...you will suffer.
Let Go and Let God is a powerful antidote for what's broken in your plan.
You all know that I am ALL about having a PLAN! Yest this was such a grea reminder of what MY plan needs to be about. It needs to be about fixing ME, it needs to be about taking care of DD, but it is NOT about fixing Drac, it is NOT about trying to control the uncontrollable. THAT is God's, not mine.
I DO so pray that he speaks to Drac's heart. I DO pray that he Breaks Drac. I think that like Meggy's H, that is what is going to have to happen before Drac can/will make any changes to himself. Drac does have to make some serious changes or he is going to continue to go down the wrong paths. If he and the Ho stay together, they will end up someday right where Drac and I are,,,,,the finer details may be different, but the end result will be the same.
One of the last talks I had with Drac, I did tell him that no matter where he goes or who he is with, he will end up making the same mistakes and end up in the same bad place. That there is a way to keep from making those mistakes & that WE can make those changes together. Of course, this did absolutely no good with him, but perhaps one of these days he will think back and remember what I said. That I am willing to work with him to make a M that is better than either of us ever imageined.
Now, that is SO far down the road, IF it would ever happen, that now is not the time to expend much time or energy on it. But is IS one of the possible outcomes that may happen if I just get out of the way and let God work His plan.
You know, my FAVORITE part of BR's post,,,,,
I'm happily married today...but 5 years ago....I was in your shoes...
As isn't this what we ALL want for our lives?? Isn't that why we all came here in the first place?
But think about it,,,, did ANY of us have any idea of what the path would be? I know I didn't. I had no idea of the things I would have done or changed or experience up until this point. Looking back at what I've been through, what I've done, how I've done it,,,,it is NOT what I would have told you that first day that I posted, that is for sure!
My point being that part of letting go and letting God is that I have to keep my mind OPEN to every possibility. I don't know what tomorrow holds. I only know that no matter what it is, if I let HIM be in charge, He will take me through it, and I will end up where I need to be according to HIS plan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
All I can offer today:
Read more of BR.
She is great....
((((BUGS))))
LG
Happy Sunday, LG!
I always look for threads where BR is posting, as I agree, she is great! I do the same with your posts, as well as Mimi's and a few others. Each of us have those that seem to resonate best with us for whatever reason.
I was just over on Sis's thread and WOW! Lots of great stuff there, too. I feel like I've already been to church this morning!
Hope you have a great day!
Went to the amusement park yesterday and had a great time. First time since he left that I didn't think about him all day.
It's nice to concentrate on our children's happiness and others around us.
I started the day off at my friends church and I felt as though I was being hugged there too. God is so amazing. He is giving both of us the strength we need. We both know that we have the "escape plan" that the bible alows us to use, although I know both you and I don't want to use it at all.
The following is my morning lesson from REJOICEMINISTRIES.ORG
We have to be content with where we are in our lives.
"I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength." Philippians 4:11-13
It is God's strength that allows us to wait patiently. God is using the wait to enlarge your faith and to ensure that your focus is on Him. He alone will know when you are ready.
For those of you with as little patience as I, remember - it takes time to grow a tree; it takes time to build a mountain; it takes time to create a rose. Give God time in these matters and then just see what glorious beauty He will bring forth from the wait. Be grateful for every step forward the Lord allows you to take.
Give God time to accomplish His purpose in your life. Just as He has been patient with you, so must you be patient with God. While you wait, He is building you up and changing the landscape of your life, both inside and out. These trials are but temporary and they, too, shall pass. God will not let us remain in this place forever. He always places a time limit on our suffering. Without the night, we could not have the dawn. Without the trials, we could not have the glory. Without the wait, we could not have the strength. We must never give up believing in the promise even if it takes its time getting to us.
In Ephesians 1:11-12 we read:
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory."
This tells us that our life is unfolding according to the glorious plan of the One who sees all and knows all.
Patient waiting is a tough lesson to learn. There are so many times we want to force the issue; to take matters into our own hands. But we must trust in the Man with the Plan. Your name is engraved on the palms of His hands and He will not forget you.
"Remember these things, O Jacob, for you are my servant, O Israel. I have made you, you are my servant; O Israel, I will not forget you." Isaiah 44:21
For many of us, each day that passes finds us more and more discouraged. For us, His help is not coming fast enough. We pray and we fast and we hope against hope. But it is God's timing, His plan that will prevail. As He spoke to Isaiah "I will respond at just the right time." He has set aside a special time to answer us and His time is best.
Yes, the wait IS hard. But God can turn the wait into something wonderful. Good things happen when we wait patiently on God. These clouds of trial will one day give way to showers of blessing. Your patient endurance will one day yield to blessed abundance. And when the floodgates of promise open for you, you will rejoice in the One who strengthened you through the wait and the light that pours out will help you forget the time of darkness.
"Yet if you devote your heart to him and stretch out your hands to him, if you put away the sin that is in your hand and allow no evil to dwell in your tent, then you will lift up your face without shame; you will stand firm and without fear. You will surely forget your trouble, recalling it only as waters gone by. Life will be brighter than noonday, and darkness will become like morning." Job 11:13-17
INeed,
Wow! What great inspiration this morning! What you have here is needed right now by So many on this board. Do you realize what a Blessing you are and that you give with your morning posts on my thread?? I can't thank you enough
So glad you had a Great day at the park with DD! I have done those days with my kids and it makes all of the difference in the world in how I feel. Yes, sometimes it's hard when you think how great it would be if your H was there with you as a family, but then it gets easier as time goes by, as we gather our strength, to let that go and focus on the moment with your kids.
Narrowly escaped a Drac sighting this morning. I was getting DD out of the car when Drac pulled in to drop off DSS at the sitter's. I got her out of the car and just turned my back to walk in the house. I told DD to wave at Daddy, but I did not look at him. So, I didn't see him, but he saw me (in proper Goddess wear I might add).
This was the first 'accidential' encounter. To date, he has stuck strictly to the PBL instructions. Wonder what he was thinking when he saw me there? I doubt it mattered at all. It was a TOTAL Affairland weekend. Friday night laser tag with my kids and a water park all day on Sunday again with my kids (but HER son was with his Dad).PUKE! He is in big time "hating Bugs" mode anyway, so seeing me probably only fueled his anger. He's a BIG time grudge guy, if he thinks someone has done him wrong,,,,, so with the D issues, I am sure I fall into that category now.
I do wonder when the 'party' life will end? It is always some fun activity every weekend and has been since he left. Isn't thay Karma bus about due at his stop? LOL!
Seriously, how long can he continue to 'buy' his kid's love? He still is saying how DSS if BETTER, HAPPIER, now Yet he doesn't see that having Dad that pays attention to him by taking him places every weekend VS the Dad that laid on the couch and Slept all weekend before would make ANY kid more happy?! Does he not realize that is about HIM, not me or us? Does he not see that it won't last like that?
Ok,,why did I go down that road? Sorry!
DD was telling me a lot of different things about there weekend and mentioned specific things about the Ho. I took the opportunity to remind her of the facts of the situation. It's hard for her, I know, but I think the truth is important. She wanted me to "tell Daddy it is wrong so he will stop". Ah, if only it were that simple. Last night at bedtime she talked about it again, but the way in which she said it let's me know that she does understand what is going on. She said, "Oh,, it's just not right." I asked her what she meant. She said "We are still married. We are not divorced. Daddy has a girl and that's NOT right!". I told her no, it's not right. Then I spent time reassuring her that she is loved and that no matter what happens, it will be Ok.
I got through her entire room yesterday. I am not packing everything up. I'm going through and packing what I know she doesn't play with a lot, and am planning to leave some things there, as she needs toys when she visits him. I am putting things in such an order that when my family comes to help, we will be packing up what is all organized and ready to go. I can simply point to the containers to remove or the drawers to empty. I got some done in my bedroom as well.
Only Bad thing is that I injured my shoulder somewhere along the line. It hurts even sitting here typing. I have to rest my arm on my leg to support it. I see a chiropractor over by where I am moving, so am going to call him when his office opens to get in today. Hope that does the trick, otherwise it's a dr visit tomorrow. I am leaving mid morning to register DD for her new school, then meeting Mom & Dad at the new house for home inspection this afternoon! I have to call my real estate agent in a few minutes to have her draw up and bring a new contract with Mom & Dad's name on it. After discussing with everyone, we decided this is the best way to go. They are going by the bank before our meeting to get the loan in motion.
So, being patient, trusting God to work this all out. Thankful for being so blessed. Asking for patience. Trying NOT to think about what is going on in Affairland.
Drac sent an email about an hour ago. Apparently all it said was that he has not gotten the electric bill for the house this month, it usually comes a few days after his Dad's.
I see no need to respond to this. Anyone have other thoughts?
Why did he even send the message? Certainly it is not my problem if he has that bill or not, is it? It's in HIS name and I will be outta there in 3 weeks or less.
By the way, talked to my parents, they are good to go on buying the house, the bank has approved them already this morning. We just have to get the appraisal done and set the closing date - - - AS LONG as the inspections today are A-OK!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />:)
Ignore the email (unless the power's gonna be shut off before you move).
Cool!!!! Congrats on the house!
Bugs,
I agree with PM, ignore the e-mail.
Love ya
Still
How exciting!!! Hope the inspections go smoothly!
How's the shoulder?
Most likely its a muscle strain or pull -- don't know if your chiropracter can help much with that...
Drac's first Plan B breakage attempt! And a pretty weak one at that!! HEHEHEHE. Poor man had to wrack his brain to come up with a reason to communicate with you, and that was the best he could do? Lame.
Hey PM & Lexxx!
I am confident the inspection will go fine! Trusting God has it under control.
I am pretty sure should is muscular, but getting adjusted will help it heal faster. If not, will have to see medical dr later this week. Seeing chiro today saves me a trip for scheduled appt on Wed (an hour drive)
Lexx,, I was sitting here asking myself why in the world did he bother to send me that message at all. THAT is a break of Plan B?
If so, lame is just the right word. I just find it hard to believe he'd 'want' to contact me after the big Ho & family weekend. Or is it a control thing? Since I did not even bother to look at him this am?
Did he send directly to you? or through intermediary?
About the stories he's spreading. Do your best damage control. This why exposure is so important -- because WS's lie to get sympathy for their tenuous position. And lying is pretty much the only way they will get any.
I just find it hard to believe he'd 'want' to contact me after the big Ho & family weekend. Or is it a control thing? Since I did not even bother to look at him this am?
Knowing what he is doing is definitely not good for PLAN B. He is supposed NOT TO EXIST for you. If you know this stuff, you are not safeguarding your love for him. This can be a HUGE ERROE. We've seen it before, Bugs....
And what did you mean by not looking at him this AM?
I'm not reading carefully. I'm sorry. But was there some contact?
Mimi,
I do not know any way NOT to know what he is doing when it involves my kids. Other than being a continuing LB for me, what other issues are there with that?
On the 'contact' he pulled in while into the sitter's this am while I was getting DD out of the car. I did not even look at him. Just carried her in the house w/my back to him
He later sent an email that aparently just said he has not gotten the electric bill for the house yet this month and that itusually comes a few days after his Dad's bill comes (both still come to the house where I live).
I did not have a reply sent.
Hey Bugs,
Just checking in - having a bit of a rough time myself here in day 7.
We are both getting great advice. Have you read Mortarman's response to me on my thread? Probably very applicable to you as well.
We are MAH-VE-LOUS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It doesn't matter if you didn't look at him. He got his FIX from a look at you and that sets you back, Bugs.
In order for PLAN B to be effective he has to miss you.
This all fits together.
He did a TEST after seeing you.
Don't for one minute believe that he did not see you on purpose.
Got to work on COMPLETE DARKNESS,Bugs.
And yes I still say that there is too much talk and knowledge about what he is doing.
TOUGH LOVE from Mimi....
Hey Eph! You are MAH-VE-LOUS! Such patience you are having dealing w/WW's 'communication' issues!
Of course she does not want a 3rd party know the [email]cr@p[/email] she is up to! DUH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mortarman and all these are dishing out some great advise and I am taking full benefit from it, too. Keep dark!
Ok, Miss Mimi,,,
Maybe I am having a dense day, but can you or anyone pretty please tell me HOW to be more dark?
And also, a bit more on how him seeing me sets me back in my plan?
I thought the email was a test to see of I would reply or not. But why?
Btw- home inspection went GREAT. The inspector himself told me it is Very Rare to find a place in as good of condition as this house is. Only 1 light switch that does not work properly!! Everything else top to bottom is good. Also my Dad was Very Impressed & feels very good about it, which was Very important to me.
So, closing on the 10th. Current owners out by the 13th so DD and I will be there for her first day of school on the 15th!! Offical move that following weekend!
Well, Miss Bugs.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When we say DARK, we literally mean DARK. We mean that he is NOT SUPPOSED TO SEE YOU.
One of the major purposes of PLAN B is for the WS to miss you..for the WS to SUFFER...to reach his bottom..for the OW to meet ALL of his needs...
Seeing you meets ALL KINDS OF NEEDS..SF/PHYSICAL ATTRACTION/DOMESTIC SUPPORT..She is supposed to be his TOTAL EYE CANDY..and he will soon realize that she is not enough..that is if he DOES NOT GET TO SEE YOU...he is to only IMAGINE YOU and LONG FOR YOU...
My H pulled the same stuff..trying to catch me at the gym...and on and on..
He SAW you and wanted CONTACT with you..in any form or fashion..E-mail or whatever...
We want him to LONG for SUCH CONTACT and know that he will not GET TO EVEN SEE YOU..unless he ends his AFFAIR...
I know it must be hard with children but try to DO YOUR BEST WITH THIS...
Come at a different time to the sitters' or whatever...
Ok, that helps, Thanks!
I will go a bit earlier to the sitter one day and then a bit later another. I am generally VERY prompt with my schedule. Drac is not.
So, all this what do I do about the TM that signaled on my cell 30 minutes ago that I have not read?
I told DSS to let Drac know I have not seen electric bill - and I sent his mail down to the sitter so he had it when he picked up DSS.
He's trying to break PLAN B after seeing you.
HE MUST SUFFER!!!
He's not supposed to be able to reach you.
I guess because of business you can't change your number can you?
I changed my cell no. and home pnone numbers and never answered my phone at work.
If you read the TM, certainly don't respond to it unless he is saying that he is ending the affair.
No, I can not change my numbers, unfortunately.
I read the message,,finally. It said "agreed to email. Don't send messages through the kids".
That is in response to my having DSS tell him that I have not seen the electric bill.
As much as I might want to respond, am staying silent. No response is necessary. He Exploded the 1 other time I told Dss to tell him anything. That was the night I did not want to see or talk to him and told DSS to tell Dad I'd see hin tomorrow. He ended up following me around the house, insisting I speak to him.
I think this is the same. He is NOT in control and he does not like it at all. My Mom even said to me today to expect him to try to have a confrontation face to face very soon.
I am thinking it is not even close to that. My goodness, I have not even begun to ignore him or treat him as badly as he has me.
They no longer have you around as an excuse to JUSTIFY the AFFAIR. She has to provide REAL CONVERSATION now..not just CONVERSATION about you being a BAD WIFE....
Good stuff..this is running according to the script...
The key is to continue to AVOID him....
DARK..DARK..DARK..
Mimi,
WHO are you talking about??
The only people who exist in MY world are Me, DD, DSS and family. No WS or Ho exist in MY world!
Or atleast that is my goal
LMAO...Good Morning! glad to see that you are doing well!
I'm just checking in...I'm still doing well!
Take care!
ROFL....he's poking at your plan b (and unfortunately you have him ammo to do it....)
the e-mail, the text, the sighting.
go darker. (and he's right by the way, don't use the kids as intermediaries. you just gave him that ammo to come at you with....)
Who is your intermediary bugs? The proper response since you felt a need to give one was to have your SISTER (I think) send a quick e-mail saying "please do not contact bugs directly. and no, she does not have the electric bill, she will forward all bills in the usual method -- if you have concerns contact the company."
Good morning!
Well, I never responded to Drac's text message last night, and frankly, it wasn't as hard as I thought to just let it go! Didn't sleep well, though with this shoulder pain. I am trying to decide if I need to call the MD or just suffer through and see if it gets better.
Lexxx,
You are right in how I should have responded. I did not 'plan' to use DSS to carry a message, I just mentioned it without really thinking it through properly. Will have Sis take care of it next time
I purposefully went to drop DD at the sitter's a bit later than usual this morning. I was a bit distressed to arrive to find that Drac had not yet dropped off DSS, so I hightailed it out of there pretty quick to avoid seeing him. I didn't, thank goodness! Didn't even pass them on the road for which I was grateful. It is kind of strange, though, after months of hoping, praying, and planning ways TO see him, now it's the complete opposite!
I don't think I posted yet about my A's response to his A after they refused my SORDID offer! LOL! She read it to me over the phone yesterday afternoon and faxed it to his A right after that. I am guessing he has it by now. It basically stated that I will in NO way agree to the sale of the marital assets when it includes paying of Drac's personal debt, and noted the SUBSTANTIAL difference in my personal debt vs his, Plus the fact that his has increased by $5K since he filed in April, Plus the fact that he paid it off during the refinance of the house in 2003. She noted the numerous things which I have contributed to the M financially, noted his areas of "misconduct", and stated that in light of this, MY offer is more than fair. She went on to say that I have documentation of my claim and that he needs to provide documentation of HIS claim, and that we should "seek guidance" from the judge on the 20th. In other words, we are not afraid to go to court because we can prove my claim.
Drac's certainly not going to like any of it. One area that she mentioned in the letter is how Drac has assisted his Dad in buying property and that he has an "interest" in that property. I do NOT want to drag FIL into this at all. My A knows that, and I'm not sure mentioning it in that letter was a good idea. Oh well, what's done is done at this point.
I guess that this is going to give some further fuel for conversation against/about me in Affairland. Oh well, not anything I can do about that. That is except to stay dark.
Mimi, you said that this seems to be going according to "script"? Do you really think so?
In my newbie Plan B mode, the only script I see here is the one that completes the D with Drac & the Ho driving off into the sunset,,, returning just to involved my daughter in their sick relationship from time to time.
Uggh! Sorry! Too much thought about someone who does not exist, right?
Hard to work on avoiding someone who doesn't exist! LOL! Another one of those things that will take a bit of work to get my arms around!
Well, Sis isn't on board with being intermediary. Bottomline is she doesn't understand or see any issues w/Drac and I communicating via email unless it is hostile in some way.
Here is email Drac just sent. I need advise on a response
"I believe I have been following the schedule you created for our children to keep in contact with us, since you gave me the schedule I have had to call DD more times than not. I do not have a problem with calling her, but this was not my understanding of how this would be handled.
I would appreciate it if you would not use the children or family to deliver messages or mail, I have respected your wish not wanting to see or speak with me, so I make times to go by the house when you are not there to pick up my mail. If you would continue to leave the mail on the counter and I will pick it up.
The issue concerning DSS's cell phone bill, I have repeatedly asked you to transfer the phone over to my account and to date you have not done this. The phone is still in your name and in your possession and control. DSS is allowed to have the phone when you see fit. I am not able to contact him when he is with me through the week if you decide to keep his phone. Please change the phone over if you would like me to pay the bill."
Ok a few items to note. He has NOT stuck with the schedule of calling when he has the kids.
On the mail issue - yesterday I had given his mail to DSS so he would have it when he picked him up last night. I do not understand the big deal here. This saves him from having to 'make time' to go by the house when I am not there
Re:DSS cell. I have repeatedly requested the cell phone co change the bill to HIS name. WHY would Drac need to call DSS when they are suppposed to be together?
So what, if any of this, do I reply to and how?
I know, it is not the darkness I am going for, but am just doing the best I can right now. When Steve Harley and I spoke about Plan B, he told me email, as needed, was ok.
Mimi, you said that this seems to be going according to "script"? Do you really think so?
Yea...him trying to break into your PB...him needing for you to be in the threesome as the BAD GUY in order to FUEL the A...him going back into WITHDRAWAL now after SEEING you...Yea, scripted...
the only script I see here is the one that completes the D with Drac & the Ho driving off into the sunset,,, returning just to involved my daughter in their sick relationship from time to time.
Don't allow yourself to think this way...
The ODDS are REALLY against this...
Think HE DOESN'T EXIST...
I just got off the phone w/cell company. When I requested the change to Drac's name on the acct, they contacted HIM to confirm the change, but HE did not return the vm message!
They are going to try again - this is the 3rd time.
Here's a draft reply,
Drac Wrote - "I believe I have been following the schedule you created for our children to keep in contact with us, since you gave me the schedule I have had to call DSS more times than not. I do not have a problem with calling her, but this was not my understanding of how this would be handled."
Bugs reply "The schedule did not appear to be working for you as DD ended up having to leave VM's for you numerous times, you called early at times, and there have been several occassions that I have had to call and not gotten any answer when they were with you. If the schedule works for you, as you indicate above it does, I will ensure the kids call you in a timely manner per the schedule and appreciate your doing the same in return"
Drac wrote "I would appreciate it if you would not use the children or family to deliver messages or mail, I have respected your wish not wanting to see or speak with me, so I make times to go by the house when you are not there to pick up my mail. If you would continue to leave the mail on the counter and I will pick it up."
Bugs reply "Leaving mail at the sitter for you to pick up along with DSS is a much more convenient way for you to get your things in a timely manner. In the future, as to protect your privacy, I will ensure it is in a sealed envelope"
Drac wrote "The issue concerning DSS's cell phone bill, I have repeatedly asked you to transfer the phone over to my account and to date you have not done this. The phone is still in your name and in your possession and control. Austin is allowed to have the phone when you see fit. I am not able to contact him when he is with me through the week if you decide to keep his phone. Please change the phone over if you would like me to pay the bill."
Bugs reply "I have requested the billing be changed to you for the 3rd time today. X Company informs me that in the previous requests, vm messages were left for you to return and confirm the change, but they did not receive a call back from you. They will. be contacting you again to confirm. I have kept control of the phone as to prevent the loss of it as we have had in the past. I assumed that the times he is with you during the week, that he is either at the sitters or with you so it would not be needed at that time. Feel free to take control of the phone"
Comments?
Bugs,
I do not post very often, but I read your thread, first thing, each morning. You are such an inspiration for all of us. I am rutting for you as if I were you! You are so awesome! OK enough of that LOL!
I don't think I'd respond to his comments about the calling schedule. Although you & Drac have agreed on a schedule, the reality is life is not always that rigid. So, just as sometimes you have to be somewhat flexible & overlook certain fluctuations, he will have to learn to do the same.
Also, there may be a time when DSS not calling him etc... will have to be between he & DSS, same for DD.
It sounds as if you've taken care of the cell bill name change think. At least you've tried to. I'd think he should pick up the ball on this now.
As far as your sister goes. I don't think anyone who hasn't been through this & doesn't understand the MB concepts, can truly grasp what you are trying to accomplish. If you feel that she cannot totally follow through on your wishes in emailing the facts without a negative tone, you might need to get someone else to do it.
OK, here's the part I have a problem with, so bare with me. I may just not understand it, but here goes. Why the he77 does Drac get to pick up his mail on your counter in the house that you are residing in?
I know that legally it is still his house, but I feel that it is such a infringment & lack of respect for your privacy.
It seems if you're in Plan B that he could be getting somewhat of a Fix to be able to wollow in your personal space even if you're not around, look at pictures, smell your underware, whatever? LOL! Not only that, go through your stuff to make sure you're not up to anything. Wouldn't it be better to keep him guessing?
Would it make more sense to come up with some other way he could get his mail besides being able to just go into the house? Whatcha think?
BUGS!!
STOP THIS!!
HE HAS GOTTEN YOU OFF TRACK OF PLAN B SINCE YESTERDAY!!
FIND ANOTHER INTERMEDIARY!!
DO NOT RESPOND TO HIS E-MAIL!!
HE SHOULD NOT BE COMING INTO THE HOUSE!!
THE LOCKS SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHANGED AS SOON AS PLAN B STARTED!!
Yes, all caps...
BUGS, I AM SHAKING YOU!! HOPE IT DOESN'T HURT....
Hey Jaded!
So YOU are one of those folks out there I see reading but not posting,, thanks for checking in and the kind words!
I definately agree on the mail situation, which is why I had it with DSS at the sitter's house last night. There is NO reason for him to be in the house and I thought this would be the best way to eliminate the only reason left for him to be there. I think that is why he hates it so much , but too bad. It makes sense and he certainly can not stop me from doing that MY way.
I agree, too, that life has to be flexible with the calls. I have chosen to 'roll with it' the times HE hasn't stuck to it. Just not sure how to say that briefly and businesslike.
Phone bill will now be in his court and my reply on that I think is good
Read my post before Jaded.
DARK MEANS DARK...
NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT...
NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTS...
I know, it is not the darkness I am going for, but am just doing the best I can right now. When Steve Harley and I spoke about Plan B, he told me email, as needed, was ok.
Steve told you E-Mail AS NEEDED.
IMO, this is all about him seeing you yesterday and he is trying to BREAK YOU DOWN and he is succeeding.
He is the one that created this mess and he needs to SUFFER FOR IT.
All of his mail needs to be forwarded. Immediately. Go to the post office in put in a change of address.
It needs to be made perfectly clear to him that he no longer will be able to have his cake and eat it too in any fashion whatsoever.
This will begin a continual E-Mail dialogue.
Plan B out the window.
He is missing the text messages, etc.
Bugsmom,
What are the boundaries you set while in plan B?
Example:
Contact allowed: via (e-mail, message w/3rd party, vm)
Subject restricted to: (bills, child visitation, etc.)????
L.
BUGS!!!!!!!!!
Do NOT reply to his email.
I am shaking you too!
For every reason in the book, and then some.
Don't reply.
Send his mail to him in one big envelope, and with a note to him to CHANGE HIS ADDRESS. That's it -
"DRAC, YOU NEED TO SUBMIT A CHANGE OF ADDRESS TO THESE COMPANIES."
Nothing else.
He shouldn't be in your space picking up the mail.
You shouldn't be emailing him.
YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE
DARK
That means no contact
not by email either.
As far as the cell phone goes, don't worry about it. It isn't YOUR problem - is it bothering YOU?????????
Nope. It's bothering WH - and HE DOESN'T EXIST - remember?
Who cares if the cellphone is a problem for him?
You don't. Neither do I.
If he really cares all that much for the cellphone, he can get another one, and/or change it over himself, and/or MAKE THE PHONE CALL TO THE COMPANY WITHOUT HIS "MOTHER" (YOU) reminding him. He has on his big-boy britches.
Do NOT send him another email
You are DARK.
SB
Mimi,
We were posting at the same time. Now I am sitting here with a case of whiplash from the shaking! (Just kidding, but I took it to heart)
I can not change the locks on the house. I will only be there 18 more days and am going to continue to give the mail thru the sitter whether he likes it or not. If I changed to locks, I have no doubt he would just break in if he wanted in, and legally I could do nothing about it.
The cell phone is taken care of and is now in his court. I will give it to DSS tonight along with the charger.
I have 1 friend from way back I will talk to about being intermediary and am pretty sure she will do it.
The only part that she will need to reply to is the phone call schedule.
On the 'contact' he pulled in while into the sitter's this am while I was getting DD out of the car. I did not even look at him. Just carried her in the house w/my back to him
He later sent an email that aparently just said he has not gotten the electric bill for the house yet this month and that itusually comes a few days after his Dad's bill comes (both still come to the house where I live).
The E-mailing from him all started after he saw her. Before that, he had not contacted her at all.
Ok. I've calmed down now....
Sorry about that....
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Bugs, you're correct. I don't post often for a lot of reasons. One, I didn't know about MB until about 3 months ago, so I was already about 8 months into recovery (after dday 2). So didn't really feel like I knew enough to be giving anyone opinions or advise.
Still not sure I am, but knowing what I now know, I know I made some huge mistakes between dday1 & dday2. Also, I have 2 sons that dominate the computer most of the time, & sometimes hover when I'm on. Lastly, I am so technologically challened that I have at times spent a long time on a post & then found that my form is no longer valid. Many times I read your posts & people quickly say what I would have said anyway.
I did this just this morning. I posted for like a half an hour to someone on a Recovery thread & then couldn't submit it. I tried to figure it out, but ended up losing my post. I was so PO'ed cuz it was something I felt I could help out with.
Anyway, Mimi said what I was trying in a round about way trying to say. I love her! She is nice and blunt as she should be.She gets her message out loud & clear. Kudos to her.
So, what Mimi said "Ditto".
I think she's right. Drac needs to feel he still has some hold on you. Stay dark as......umm...chocolate. Yeah, chocolate is good.
Bugs....do not fall into the same mistake Wildhorses fell into.
Power struggling with your husband is not Plan B. It's Plan Lovebust.
Hey everybody! Thanks for being here! This is so GREAT! Really!
Mimi, don't apologize! I AM glad you feel more calm now. So do I!
In fact, I am sitting here laughing! Poor Drac does not stand a chance with you all around! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am NOT replying to his email, so no worries there. Mimi is right, there has been total silence and darkness until he saw me yesterday. Since then it's been 2 emails and 1 text message. None of which did I reply to.
No, the phone situation is not bothering me too much. Actually, for me it is somewhat better not to talk to the kids when they are with him, because 90% of the time they are doing something with the Ho and I'd rather not know any more about that than I have to.
So, let's think about this. There is no need for any reply to this is there? I mean he did not even ASK a question for me to answer. It was just a list of statements. Well good for him. He can make whatever statements he likes. It is not necessary for me to comment on a single one of them.
How's that for dark?
Awesome decision. It is soooo gonna kill him that he can't even provoke you into contact. That's gonna eat him away. Hehehe
Poor Drake has no more control over the Goddess Bugs! Love it!
Bugs;
There is not one single element of his e-mail that requires a response.
It is non-emergency stuff designed to get a response out of you. His tone is deliberately accusing and poking at you SO YOU WILL RESPOND AND DEFEND YOURSELF.
Absolute silence is the best response to that.
phone schedule? not urgent.
getting mail? not urgent.
cell phone? not urgent.
First of all here are your Plan B "holes" where I see them:
You are not responsible for making sure DD (or DSS) contacts their father. He is responsible for calling them.
Do not take on responsibility for that.
You must not allow him into your space. He is getting a fix of you. And frankly he's a little creepy about it (unscrewing lightbulbs???)
You must avoid seeing him at the sitters. Good job today!
Do not allow him to suck you into communication. He was slightly accusing because he KNEW you would react to it and re-enter communicating with him.
Yeah, he's completely unaffected by Plan B, uh huh.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
BR..makes a great point, piggybacking on what I said earlier.
He's needing to make you into the BAD GUY to fuel the A..for them to have something to talk about..for him to continue to justify the A to himself...
18 days is too long for him to have access to the house, IMO...
Let him have to break in then....SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES...
Forward the mail to his father's house...
Doing these things will also help YOU to feel more POWERFUL...
YIPPEE...
I was posting at the same time as you.
You've got it!
So glad you ran this by the board first!
You know, this entire time here at MB is such a learning experience every day. Even when I think I've learned something already, I uncover another layer or depth to the same thing.
Your comment about control, Jaded, make me think about that. I have said several time that I can not control Drac, I know that. The only thing I can control is Me. Now, I know that. I understand that.
Yet today was another reminder of the Depth of that understanding. I was more concerned with controlling mt RESPONSE that I did not see that the level of control SHOULD have started with NO response. By automatically surrendering to the feeling that I needed to respond, I gave HIM back the control
That's why it is so great to come here first before doing anything!
Thanks again everyone. You saved me the crossing the line of darkness! WHEW! I am tired! :-)
Bugs ~ I hooked up a telephone in my kids room.
They got to use it to call dad anytime without my needing to interfere.
Create avenues for your children to reach their father without your active knowledge/facilitation.
Stop emailing him.
And don't send messages through kids. Your husband is right.
Lexxx,
We were both posting at the same time,,TWICE,,saying the same thing! I loved the entire line of rolling eyes.
B.R.,
I like the idea of the phone in their room and will do that at the new house for sure. Right now, they have acess to house phone (cordless) and to DSS's cell phone when they are with me, so they can call. But, the added privacy of their own Dad line at the house is good.
Just a note, I have Not emailed Drac since Plan B started.
Mimi,
Think I will swing by the old Home Depot and find out how hard it is to change locks myself! Doing it myself would Definately make me feel very powerful!!
Heck, if I can change the inner workings of the toilet (which I have) locks should be easy, right?
Bugs,
I am going to second Mimi's directions, among many (SB, BR), remain dark, none of what Drac sent to you needs response.
Can you shift your schedule a bit more to keep from seeing Drac at drop-offs? If so, even by 30 minutes, do it; this will save you a whole lot of grief, for when he sees you, his tendency to contact you and pull you back in is much higher, and you do not want this. You want sincere change, commitment, not drivel, not crumbs.
One of the best things I did was change the locks on the door, FOR ME. PWC never even tried to enter, but it was about boundaries, both physical and mental FOR ME. Once those locks were changed, I felt protection, relief. Even if it's only 18 days; if you can afford it, do it.
Have mail forwarded to Drac's new address; if he continues to want to come to the house, put it in a bag on the front stoop, with a note stating that he needs to change his address. I mean, seriously, if you are moving out anyway, why keep the address. Why, you ask? So he can get a fix...
Hi SL,
I would forward his mail, but they do not deliver to FIL's house at all. I am just going to secure in a large envelope daily and leave it for him to pick up at the sitter's.
I am changing the locks for sure, especially with the timing of DD's school starting a few days before the real move, I want to be sure he doesn't show up and start taking things away or moving things in while I am gone for those 3 nights before the move.
I don't know if it is the fix he wants or the control he wants or what the he77 he wants. Frankly right now, I don't care.
With the mail thing... hand it to the sitter and not the kids. Then you're going through HER and not THEM.
You're doing great Bugs.
Hey Meggy!
Yes, that is a good idea. Or simply a note left on my door that his mail is in the box.
I stopped by Lowe's on the way home and looked at locks,,, am going to need some help. I bought one of those hotel-like slide saftey locks (the good kind, not the chain) and was going to put on the front door, as back door is sliding glass and has a safety lock already. BUT, I forgot the front door is metal and Drac took all of the power drills with him. So,,,,,,,,,,, am going to need to enlist some help. I have tons of guy friends who would come do it, but it's over an hour one way drive for them to my house. I am hesitant to ask FIL or cousin-in-law to do it.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,Here's the latest.
I get to the sitter's and Drac has already picked up DSS. UNUSUAL, so I was prepared. Walk in the house and sitting on my counter top is DSS's phone bill that was given to Drac last night!
Why is he doing this [email]cr@p?[/email]
I had thought of giving the cell company and Drac 5 days to change the billing and then if it's not done, shutting it off. HOWEVER, then that leaves me no way to call the kids other than Drac's cell phone when they are with him and I don't want to do that.
Any suggestions?
Or simply a note left on my door that his mail is in the box.
Coming by the house is not DARK enough...and then there's the note to him...
A locksmith won't cost you much at all!
Why is he doing this [email]cr@p?[/email]
Trying to provoke you..interact with you..like Lexx said..
He wants to engage with you somehow...
Don't respond TO HIM in any way..
Do what's best for YOURSELF..since he doesn't exist..and control what YOU CAN..
I probably would pay the bill or get that one shut off and get a new phone for them in my name...
Bugs,
When I changed the locks at my house it only cost 45.00 to change 2 locks and I got 5 keys with that.
Still
Bugs:
I agree with them that he is just trying to get a reaction out of you. I visited with the attorney that I may hire today. It sounds like yours may be a control freak like mine.
My attorney said that if I shock him by taking control, it may make him hit rock bottom and think about what is going on.
Now I just have to pray....pray.....pray....
Funny story for you though.
I was at work today and "lips of an angel" came on. That song reminds me of his cheating ways and I always start to cry. Instead of crying, I start praying silently to myself. Had to do this because I was answering the phone lines. One of the creditors put me on hold as I was praying and the verse of the song that came on immediately was "It's not over yet". All I could say was thank you Lord.
I know it's not over yet. We are still hoping, still waiting and still believing.
Have you seen your small sign that God's trying to reach out to you ??? Ask him to show you.... The closer I feel to God the more amazement I am getting....
Hope you have a good night ..
When I changed the locks at my house it only cost 45.00 to change 2 locks and I got 5 keys with that.
Still,
Did you do it yourself or hire someone? I personally would much rather hire a locksmith but I guess it's probably not that cheap...
Bugs - you need to deal with your own buttons. Think of it as recovery training now - because man! he got yours today! That last little bit was to let you know how much he still controls you.
On one hand, the locks need to definitely change, except then the yah-whoo knows he got you - and the game is on. Silence. Nothing changes - at least on the surface, and he doesn't know. And then he has to escalate to avoid hitting bottom. Expect it!
In the mean time, you need to get your joo-joo together - power-woman - you know - give yourself that power-pep talk that George Jungle would give you - and ignore the beasty-boy.
Perhaps you should send a boundary message by changing the locks ... and close your curtains - maybe cover that window with a blanket! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
"... Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?" Hebrews 13:5-6
There is nothing Drac can do to you that the Lord can not handle.
"Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need." Hebrews 4:16
God is merciful. HE knows the pain we suffer with our husbands, and he gives us HIS grace and HIS strenght to see this through.
There are passages through and through the bible like this one to give us the strenght that we need:
"Therefore I will block her path with thornbushes; I will wall her in so that she cannot find her way. She will chase after her lovers but not catch them; she will look for them but not find them. Then she will say, 'I will go back to my husband as at first, for then I was better off than now.'" Hosea 2:6-7
God will block our husbands paths with the thornbushes. We need to stay strong, strengthen our faith in HIM, and read his word to grow closer. God is molding us to HIS will. Remember to pray that God's will be done as it is in heaven. That would be perfectly and quickly.
"Praise be to the LORD, for he has heard my cry for mercy. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusts in him, and I am helped. My heart leaps for joy and I will give thanks to him in song. The LORD is the strength of his people, a fortress of salvation for his anointed one." Psalm 28:6-8
"Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear." Isaiah 65:24
May you never allow your circumstances to paralyze you to the point that you stop looking at your Lord for His answers, His will and His way in solving your problems. You must keep from being tormented by doubt, unbelief and disobedience to God's Holy Word. As part of your devotions tonight, read Psalm 18.
"Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us." Ephesians 3:20
God is in us, strenghtening us, giving us the endurance that we need to make this through. He is enabling us to go through this so that we might be able to help others. HIS work is within us and once he is ready our mountain of marital problems will move quickly. Praise God for that.
Prayer for today:
Hevenly and Most powerful father, we come to you today with thanks that you are working within us and within our marriage crisis. We thank you for the strenght and endurance that has brought us this far. We thank you for the discernment you have been giving us and enabling us to listen to what your word tells us to do in this crisis. Lord, we know that our marriage is in your hands. We have placed our husbands at the foot of the cross. Your word tells us Lord, that you will save one and leave the 99 behind. Abba, father, we ask that our husbands be the one that you mold out of your clay. Whisper in his ear and give him visions that would make him fear you lord. He needs shocked into turning his life back toward you Lord.
Lift the fog off of his eyes, soften his heart, Let him know what sin is Lord. Right now he is being deceived like Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden. That snake has him believing that this is the Life for him. Let that apple that he so desires touch him in a way that he feels the guilt and shame for what has happened. Father, we know how much you love us. We have faith that you are moving this problem mountain for us so that our marriage will be restored. We know you hate divorce. We believe with all our heart that you will restore our family and will bring us all closer to you. For that we are extremely grateful. Father, we just ask through Jesus name on high that whatever else might be needed that you let him interceede for us and ask you because he knows our hearts and our desires. Thank you for being such a great and loving Father. We pray this all through Jesus name, amen.
FF,
I hired someone.... it took all of 15 minutes. I didn't even have to buy new locks he just adjusted the old ones.
Still
Good morning, all!
Well, I have my Spiritual Lift this morning,,, thanks INeed!
I am working on powering up my joo joo,,,,,,,,,,,,thanks for the advise and the laugh, Kayla! You kill me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> BTW, ALL the shades are down on ALL my windows every night! I haven't had any light bulb issues in quite a while.
Still & Mimi, thanks for the advise on the locks. Will look up a locksmith today and see when I can get this done. I was hoping I could figure it out on my own so I could do it tonight while Drac has the kids. That way he won't find out from them in advance.
When I was getting ready to walk out the door, I picked up my cell phone and saw that I had a TM. Now I have to tell you that normally, the phone beeps when I get a TM, but not this time for some reason (divine intervention?!!). Drac apparently sent a message last night at 6pm. I didn't know about it until this morning, so I didn't even have to think about whether to respond Immediately or wait!
The message just asked about DSS's meds. As this is something about DSS that needs to be answered, I did reply this morning around 7:15. My reply - - - Out.
I tried to pick the single, smallest word I could to give the proper reply.
I dropped off DD later than normal again, knowing that Drac would have had to take DSS early because he has meetings every Wed. am. DSS was not there. Drac took him to the other aunt's house where he spent the night. Now,,,,,,,,I know this isn't information I need or want to have, but can't think of a way to avoid knowing it right now. In 17 more days, I WON'T know this type of thing. That is good, becuase it makes me mad that he plays himself as being such the "great dad" and he doesn't even keep his kids on nights they are supposed to be with him! Lord, PLEASE continue to work on him and break him down to see the error of his ways!
Ok, enough Drac talk!!
Br--any more that you care to share on how not to power struggle? I have read Wild's thread off & on, but not completely.
So, everybody, how did I do wth the TM? Acceptable?
You've got to put an end somehow to that texting.
Either consciously or subconsciously he is trying to hold onto that connection with you and that keeps you from being dark to him...
Like early on in my PLAN B, I would call my H's VM, knowing he would have his cell turned off and I would listen to his VOICE.
TMing was an ongoing connection between the two of you that he is continuing.
I guarantee you that he will find another excuse to text you tonight.
Plus, he has got to suffer the consequences of his choice not to have you in his life to help him manage things. When you responded you met the DOMESTIC SUPPORT NEED. He needs to LOSE this option somehow without the DSS have Bugs having to suffer.
Maybe others can help you with the particulars...
BUT THIS HAS TO STOP...
You can get a locksmith to come at short notice this evening...and it's really not that expensive...
ETA: How about this? Find the intermediary and have her to tell him that you will not be reading any texts from him.
The texts make you too accessible to him. I know this cause my sons LOVE it cause they feel that they can reach me 24/7.
I TOLD you he would use texting as his method!
We talked about this before Plan B.
I thought you had found a way to block those?
Remember we were talking about how to plug all the holes so that you could truly be DARK?
You have GOT to plug them. Quickly. Your Plan B clock keeps starting over when he's able to get through.
And I disagree. DSS meds are HIS responsibility, and no answer was required. What would Drac do if you didn't answer? Find another way to get DSS his meds. Right?
The kids are your weakness. He will exploit it.
And the crappy thing about this is now he KNOWS you read his texts. So expect them to escalate until you find a way to BLOCK them....
Mimi,
I understand what you are saying, but do not have a logical solution right now. I will have to ck, but do not think my phone can forward TMs. Guess it is time to get a new phone?!
Regarding the meds. I no longer handle taking care of re-filling DSS's script. That is Drac's responsibility. I do keep some of each month's supply at my house so that he has it when he stays with me. I am pretty sure Drac knew that DSS did not have any at the house with me, but am not for sure.
Will see what I can do on the Tm/phone issue.
Am getting on a conference call for work now, but will call locksmith after.
If at all possible, simply CHANGE YOUR CELLPHONE NUMBER. Then you selectively give the new number out to those who need it. May be a pain but well worth it...
simply CHANGE YOUR CELLPHONE NUMBER
The problem with doing this is how do you stop DD or DSS from giving it to DRAC. Leave it up to THEM to tell him no? She can't NOT give it to them.
Bugs, you have a Blackberry right? Does it recognize text messages the same as email? Can you set an AutoRule for any messages from him to be automatically forwarded?
Most cell phone companies allow you to block certain services. (for example: I have internet blocked from my kids phones.)
You said Drac is the only one who texts you. Block text messaging.
I'm not getting this....I know we talked about this before. Did you purposefully leave this window open to see if he would attempt it?
(Be honest with yourself. you KNEW he would attempt to text you. I KNEW he would attempt to text you. Yet you didn't remove that service or do anything to block it. Was it because you WANTED to be able to see if he would try to contact you? Were you afraid of being "too dark"? Ask yourself.....)
Good point, Lexx...
I've been wondering about Bugs, too...
Is there some kind of thrill from this DRAMA?
It should be very QUIET in the DARKNESS...
PLAN B has not really started...
It's a CAT AND MOUSE GAME...
Ok, you all. I haven't been perfect, but back off me just a bit, OK? I am certainly NOT trying to play some kind of cat & mouse game. IF that were the case, there's tons of things I could be doing but haven't. I have come by here first, asking the right thing to do and AM learning and changing.
I HAVEN'T responded to his emails. I HAVEN'T called him. I HAVEN'T initiated any of this contact. I HAVE changed my schedule to avoid seeing him. I HAVE changed how the mail is handled. I HAVE changed intermediaries.
Come on Mimi,,,,,, do I really strike you as one that gets off from Drama? I think you really know me better than that, even though this is simply a message board "relationship". I understand you are trying very hard to help me so that I have a very dark and hopefully Successful Plan B. I truly appreciate your help and guidance. Please give me more of the benefit of the doubt here, OK?
How is it that I haven't started Plan B?
Maybe I'm over tired, maybe I'm just having a week of dumb a$$ attacks, maybe I just don't "GET" it all, maybe I haven't been completely honest with myself,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ok, looking myself in the mirror, forcing some honesty out of myself. Yes, perhaps I held some hope that he would TM me. Yet I have thought about it a great deal; and while it perhaps was an unspoken/unacknowledged hope for me, I really did not think he would.
Really, I believed that once I cut off contact, that he would be happy and silent as he was for the entire first week! I figured that there may be an occassional NECESSARY message about the kids but that would be all. I had resigned myself (despite hoping I was wrong) to the fact that he was and is gone forever. I am giving him what he says he wants.
Guess what? I'm a BAAAAAD BUGS! I turned off TM on my phone. Done. Finished. Over.
He can send to Blackberry, but yes, I can forward those without having to read them! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I can not change these numbers. I would if I could but they are vital to my job.
Ok, are the spankings over for today? I am really exhausted!! Isn't Plan B supposed to be restful? Is it because I'm doing it so poorly that I am so TIRED???
I am certainly NOT trying to play some kind of cat & mouse game. IF that were the case, there's tons of things I could be doing but haven't. I have come by here first, asking the right thing to do and AM learning and changing.
I'm sorry, Bugs.
I didn't mean to come across as being so hard on you.
I don't think you are doing this ON PURPOSE.
He is catching you up in this. Remember..I been there done that..struggling here right with you, recalling how I got caught up into my H's traps and just so badly don't want you to make my same mistakes. I HATE THIS FOR YOU..I HATE THIS FOR ALL OF US HERE...
IT'S SUCH A MAJOR WAR..such a series of BATTLES... and we are trying to build your TOUGHNESS....
Ok, looking myself in the mirror, forcing some honesty out of myself. Yes, perhaps I held some hope that he would TM me. Yet I have thought about it a great deal; and while it perhaps was an unspoken/unacknowledged hope for me, I really did not think he would.
You see there, MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We gotcha outta the rut, didn't we????
Guess what? I'm a BAAAAAD BUGS! I turned off TM on my phone. Done. Finished. Over.
NO WAY!! YOU'RE WONDERFUL, MAH-VE-LOUS, GLAMOUROUS, BUGSY!!
Isn't Plan B supposed to be restful? Is it because I'm doing it so poorly that I am so TIRED???
EXACTLY..I wouldn't say POORLY..but he was starting to take control there for awhile..
BACK UP ON THE HORSE, NOW, BUGSY!!!
Get DRIVEN in your DETERMINATION for him not to BREAK THROUGH THE WALLS!!!
Mimi,
I know you are helping and that all of your advise and admonishments are out of the greatest concern and desire to help!!
Your having 'been there, done that' experience is invaluable. Yet, as you said, having done it yourself, you understand the struggles!
So, yes, the Learning continues.
I am guarding and shoring up the walls around me. I am working on getting a TOUGHER yet supple & Goddess-like protective skin, too! I am pretty sure I have that suit of armor around here somewhere. I just need to remember to put it on!
I am envisioning a Joan of Arc look for myself as I am now back up on the horse!
Thanks guys!
Bugs,
Cheering and praying for you from the sidelines. I know you will find peace I just know it.
Luv ya
Still
Bugs-girl. We want you to succeed.
You've been a superstar. You're probably more used to high-fives and atta-girls.
But we'd be doing you a DIS-SERVICE if we didn't point out the gaps.
Its just SO SO SO important to get this right -- right off the bat.
I'm being tough, because I know what happens. You go 97% dark -- but still have that hope that they will WANT to contact you, that they will miss you. And how are you going to know that if you don't leave that 3% hole to peek through? But by leaving that peep hole, you are giving him enough of a bugs-fix to avoid the pain. You're still tangled enough to be part of the affair drama.
I know you think 97% dark is pretty darn good. And it is. BUT! Here is why 97% isn't good enough:
HO: whats going on with the divorce?
DRAC: bugs won't speak to me, but I had to get on her case about using the kids as messengers.
HO: oh thats terrible...poor DSS...why does she put him in the middle like that?
VS.:
HO: whats going on with the divorce?
DRAC: (scrambling for some crumb to feed her, because there's been no contact and nothing comes to mind....)
BUGS-- I know you don't fully believe this; but their affair requires your participation in that triangle.
I KNOW THIS!
OM was pressuring me all the time -- telling lies all the times gets VERY CONFUSING. So I needed some basis of reality. I would feed him part of an argument, a part of a conversation that would satisfy him that I was in fact breaking away from BH and toward OM.
But the real TRUTH was those conversations or argument were very different than I portrayed!
Please Please have confidence that you did a MOST AWESOME Plan A!! You don't need reassurance that he's missing you or that he wants to contact you. YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW IT -- not see it.
Thanks for the cheerleading, Still!
Lexxxy, thanks for caring enough to be tough on me about getting it RIGHT.
I see that 3% issue and you were right about leaving that hole open. But, now closing time has arrived. Window is now closed, locked, And Covered!
I don't fully understand it, but I do trust in you all being right about their NEEDING me in the affair triangle.
So, thinking in those terms, his attempt to break Plan B starting on Mon. It came after a glimpse of me AND after 11 days of darkness from me, and after an entire Affairland weekend.
So, all that combined to NEEDiNG something from me to stir the excitement, right?
Am I getting it now? I think so! I Hope so!
Hiya , I used to read here ages ago and come back from time to time to see if there are any updates from people .
I started following your thread and wanted to let you know you are doing great . The attitude seems to of changed from when I was a more active lurker <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I encourage you to search and read posts from pebbles , faithinme , hurtinginoklahoma , you will see thier progression of events from Plan A and Plan B. And you will notice that when they had contact with thier husbands while in Plan B it was treated as Ok , it happened time to get back into the Plan. It sort of seems to me you are being a bit beat up over things and maybe reading others experiences will reassure you that you are doing a good job . " Alien sightings " happen , just get back into the plan and you are doing great .
AKeeper,
I absolutely love it when somone who has been following my thread drops in!
Thanks for the encouragement and for those posts to look for. I learn from every thread I read. Sometime I find great ideas on what to do AND even learn what not to do sometimes!
I just so appreciate everyone's help and advice. In all of this, it comes down to me doing what I think I need to do.
No matter what line of advise I get, I do value it all.
Thanks again for the kind words!
Bugs,
I did a very poor Plan B, initially, and you know what happened, my WAYWARD husband showed up and wanted to date, so I did, due to that very poor plan B; caused more pain and sorrow and damage to the marriage.
When I shored up Plan B, still not 100% mind you, and went very dark, I released PWC to Aimless. He was on his own. That's what Lexxxy and Mimi are getting at; he has to float out there ALL ON HIS OWN, without any help from you, especially over things with DSS that Drac is supposed to take care of; it's not for you to deal with anymore. You see how easily you got side tracked. If he sent the TM yesterday about meds, and you didn't notice until this morning, and the world didn't end for anybody, then it was OBVIOUSLY not all that important.
You are doing great--good job on shutting down his trusted source for a Bugsy fix--the dreaded TM's.
Trust that he will miss you. He will; you have been a good wife; you just DO NOT want that Wayward species around. It just causes turmoil in your life that you don't need. The darker you are, the more he has to turn all his focus toward OW, the more he will realize she IS NOT all that and a bag of chips--NOPE--Bugsy IS.
Thanks SL!
I have been reading more of Mimi's Plan B thread and continuing to try to learn from it. We all know how hard it is.
Drac was in the house again tonight with the mail. He DID take DSS's cell phone bill with him. I had left it on the counter. In talking to my A about it, I can try to power struggle with him about it, and can go as far as filing for a restraining order to keep him out. But, by the time I do that, I will be outta here.
Kids finally called tonight,,, late PER the Schedule! ha ha!
They were at a ballgame,,, I know it was a local minor league team game. I happened to drive by the stadium on my way home & saw there was a game tonight. I then saw who I thought was Drac driving that way. I wasn't TRYING to see him = it was all coincidence. I was headed home from the dr's office, at a time & place I normally would not have been.
It was SO LOUD I could barely talk to the kids and had to end the conversation early. At first I was SO ANGRY with Drac, but then I remembered, He does not exist. Unfortunate circumstances were in place that kept me from having a nice conversation with my kids and I will get to see them tomorrow night. I can call them in the am at the sitter's as well.
My arm and shoulder are really hurting. I tried doing some packing, but didn't get far. Typing isn't so hot either!
One quick note before I sign off, , , this afternoon, my cell phone rang with a local area number I did not recognize. It was, I knew, in the general area where Drac works. I did NOT answer it and no one left a message. Turns out the number was from a bank branch office in a supermarket in the area where Drac works. I have a feeling he found out that I withdrew my half of the savings account today and tried to call me from there, knowing I would not recognize the number. No message was left. Since his A is on vacation this week, he has not received the fax informing him that I have made that withdrawl. Too bad.
I just felt great resisting the urge to answer the call. I do feel bad having done the "research" to find out where the call came from. I know I probably should not have,,,,,,,,,,,,but hey, I am only human. I feel like if I can avoid contact with Drac, I am doing pretty darn good.
I even resisted the opportunity to do a drive by the Ho's house on my way home,,,,,,,,,,,Had I given into the urge, it would have been a close call to a Drac sighting for sure. So, I am going to take positive points for that, too!
You are right SL, I don't want what he is right now. I want 100 Percent MY HUSBAND or nothing. I deserve nothing less!
Have a great night everyone. Am getting an ice pack and going to bed!
"At first I was SO ANGRY with Drac, but then I remembered, He does not exist."
Excellent job!
That is one of the hardest things about Plan B, not about staying away, out of contact, but GETTING HIM OUT OF YOUR HEAD.....how do you not make him a part of your life right now?
Yeah -- 2 points for Bugs!
I had to laugh at a friend of mine. She gives herself points, when she's earned enough she gets to buy herself something fun. Use whatever behavior mods works!
hey there!
You are right, it is so darn hard getting him outta my head! I am doing better with making decisions and going about the every day things of life without stopping to think about him in relationship to it. Simple things like when I am at the grocery store, not thinking about the things I used to fix for him. Stupid stuff like that.
I am also working on other everyday "life" triggers. For instance, seeing a motorcycle or the same kind of car he drives or that the HO drives. I stopped looking at the license plates or trying to see the drivers. Today, I went to the doctor. I hadn't been in a while and apparently a doctor that HE used a few years ago for a surgery is now in the same group office with my doctor, as I saw his name on the door when I walked in. Yes, I connected the dots, but I did not let that lead me down a sad path. Well, at least not too sad. It did cross my mind that it's a shame he's forgotten about all of the things I helped him through from the day we started dating. That same week we started dating, he broke his ankle. I was the one who took him to the specialist, took him for surgery, brought DSS to see him in the hospital, etc. I was there for him through 3 bouts of diverticulitis, 1 surgery for that, and 2 serious bouts of pneumonia. I decided I hope he doesn't get seriously ill right now because I'll be darned if I'll foot the bill and have the HO come to visit! UUUKKK. THAT put me right back where I needed to be,,, I just STOPPED thinking about it.
Just like last night when I was talking to DSS and DD while they were at the ballgame. Neither of them sounded like they wanted to be there. DSS didn't even know the score because he was "playing his Gameboy", and DD was telling me how unhappy she was about what they were having to eat. He doesn't get it that his party all of the time lifestyle is wearing on his kids. They don't need to be on the run 24/7 with him, the ho, and her son. They want and need time with their Daddy.
But, you know what? There's not a darn thing I can do about it. It is, unfortunately, something he'll have to figure out on his own. He may not figure it out, and it WILL damage his relationship with his kids. In fact, it already is. That is HIS to own. My job is to be the Best Mom for them both.
I went to the dr this morning and got an anti-inflammatory for my shoulder. Hope I won't need to see the ortho specialist she referred me to. Praying that the meds and careful use will let it heal. While I was waiting for my script to be filled, I went to Old Navy and bought some school clothes for the kids. I did really well. 3 tops, 3 bottoms, and a jacket for DD, and 2 shirts and a pair of jeans for DSS all for $100.
I have gotten some of DD's school supplies and will be picking up the rest sometime in the next week. I have debated on buying school supplies for DSS. On the one hand, I don't want to treat them differently (doing for one and not the other). BUT, I feel very strongly that this is one of those things that Drac is going to have to take care of himself. He doesn't want me to be full time Mom to DSS, so I should not be doing ALL of the things that a Mom does.
Does that sound bad? I just worry that DSS is the one that suffers, which is the LAST thing I want. On Sunday when Drac dropped of DD, DSS brought her in the house. Before he left he gave me a BIG FULL 2 arm hug. He's doing that more and more lately, when before it was always a typical half hearted 13 year old boy kind of hug. It just rips at my heart!
I have been giving myself "Atta girl" points! But, with the new house, I know that is where all of the points will be spent for a while!! Mom is already lining up plants and spare furniture from throughout the family! I am going to "make due" with whatever is available for a while. Then, when I've saved up enough "points" I am going to buy Nice furniture. Maybe as a Christmas present to myself!!
It is now offically my wedding anniversary.
Bugs:
I am so sorry honey. I know how hard this day is for you, as I just did it a couple of weeks ago.
Pray today, and tell GOD that you can not handle today on your own. Ask HIM to wrap HIS arms around you and to carry you through today.
I know he will, he did me. I found strenght I didn't think possible, I laughed alot. At the end of the day when I prayed and told God he could put me down now, I felt as through all of my energy were drained in a second.
Remember "Satan will whisper lies to you, hoping that you will begin to believe them." John 8:44
I want you to say to yourself today and keep repeating it...
I am a worthwhile, loveable, successful person because GOD created me in HIS perfect image !
Dear Heavenly Father, we just ask you to take Bugs's negative thoughts right now. Please replace them with good ones. Lord, help her to focus today on the blessings you have given her. And Lord help her to realize that YOU love her and so do all of us. Amen.
Now to put a smile on your face, I was driving to work yesterday and praying. Someone cut me off bigtime. Instead of getting angry, I smiled, looked at the truck and shouted "THANK YOU LORD". Kind of hard to imagine thanking him for cutting me off, but the words on the truck said Love Construction. God's subtle way of letting me know he's doing this.
Bugs: You can celebrate today without your husband. I took my family and a couple of my friends out to eat. It doesn't matter if Drac's not there. You became One on your wedding day, so he is there when you are there. I went and we celebrated the day I made the covenant with God for my marriage.
Hope this helps you at all.... I will pray for you throughout the day. When you feel down, pray and ask God for that hug. It's amazing because he does give it.
I NEED, your words are so INSPIRATIONAL!!
You seem personally touched by the HANDS OF JESUS!!
Bless you, I NEED, for coming here and speaking to us in the midst of all of your own pain.
As you well know, you will RECEIVE as much or more as you GIVE. I'm sure that BLESSINGS await you..
INeed,
Well, I can not say it any better than Mimi did! You are such a blessing!
First thing upon getting to my office I opened my Bible. It was random - The 23rd Psalm. How perfect! I spent time reading and then in prayer. I have used a visual of the Lord holding me, filling me with His light & love. Then the entire room fills and I am surrounded by angels. I have a protective circle around me to keep out those demons.
The hardest ones to keep out are the ones questioning if Drac even remembers what today is. How can he spend our anniversary in another woman's bed?!? Why would I want a man that would do that?
So, now I got those thoughts out, I am going to try very hard to leave them here on this page and NOT carry them around with me today.
((((BUGS)))))
Oh, my ANGEL...so you ARE reclaiming the day right? Got some plans?
I understand that this is tough for you but you will be just fine!! I hope that you know that!
Goal for today: Think positive...don't allow your mind to be the devil's playground! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
(((BUGS)))
Wishing the best for you!
I too spent our "anniversary" alone during WH's craziness. Even worse, OW's BD was in that same week. Guess which one he celebrated. I know what you're feeling.
This IS hard. For this year... use this day to celebrate YOU and the changes you've made. And remember, something good did come out of this day. You've got precious DD as a result of it.
(((Bugs)))
Ok, TALK ME OUTTA OF THIS!!!
I want to Anonymously send a rose for each year we have been married to Drac's office.
Tell me again why this would be a BAD BAD BAD idea!!
Would it be better to send DEAD roses! LOL!!
Ahhh..Psalm 23..one of my favorites in the MIDNIGHT HOURS..
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies...Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life...
This is certainly true for YOU, Bugsy, for YOU as a BELIEVER...
Pray today that the LORD will deliver DRAC from evil...Pray that DRAC will hear HIS VOICE...
PRAY that whenever you think of him...
Ok, TALK ME OUTTA OF THIS!!!
I want to Anonymously send a rose for each year we have been married to Drac's office.
Tell me again why this would be a BAD BAD BAD idea!!
Would it be better to send DEAD roses! LOL!!
Do you hear that loud rumble? Is it getting louder? That'd be us heading towards you 90 to nothin' down the highway to kick your butt if you do this.
Send yourself roses! YOU deserve them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
He does not deserve them Bugs!!! Do something nice for yourself instead girlfriend!
Meggy,
LOL! I actually DID think of sending myself flowers,,but NOT roses. Back in Nov Drac hand delivered a dozen to the Ho's house ,"becuase he felt sorry for her and wanted to do something nice to cheer her up. She's a single Mom about to lose her job and he did't sign the card'. Projectile vomit!!
I told him when I found out to NEVER send me roses again.
I AM going on line right now and ordering myself something beautiful and I am taking off early to go get a pedicure!!
Ok, TALK ME OUTTA OF THIS!!!
I want to Anonymously send a rose for each year we have been married to Drac's office.
Tell me again why this would be a BAD BAD BAD idea!!
Would it be better to send DEAD roses! LOL!!
We just celebrated our 31 year Anniversary on Tuesday. My H left me roses and a card that said..."I love you more than ever"....
I celebrated our 27 year ANNIVERSARY ALONE..during PLAN B...at that time I told myself that I HAD TO STAY DARK in order to get to the place where we are today....
HE HAS TO MISS YOU TODAY..HE HAS TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE SERIOUS ENOUGH ABOUT THIS TO NOT COMMEMORATE THE ANNIVERSARY...
I guarantee that he EXPECTS something from you as an indication of your continued love for him...
You see, my H was counting on me sitting there WAITING FOR HIM..
He was counting on me being his FALLBACK in case it didn't work with her...
You want him to to get to the place of being afraid of losing you..
You want him to get to the place of YEARNING for you..
You want him to come back BEGGING AND PLEADING for a taste of YOU...
GOT IT????
Got it, Mimi!
That is why I wrote down the thought VS doing it. I KNEW it was a bad idea, but you know the hurt and longing behind the thougt.
So, instead I DID just order flowers to be delivered to me at work! The card will read 'YOU ARE LOVED'. And I feel GREAT about that, becuase I Do deserve it and I AM loved!
BTW- I do continuously pray for Drac, especially when I am thinking unkind thoughts about him! It helps ME as much as it does him when I do that, I think.
I can't wait to get my flowers!! I ordered a 'surprise' florsit designed bouquet so I do not know what it will look like!
That was an awewsome idea BUGS!
Bring them home with you tonight and leave them in the room where [censored] drac gets his mail.
What are your plans this weekend? More packing and organizing? Anything "fun"?
A pedicure sounds like heaven!! I need one!
Whats the countdown on moving day?
I think tonight I will take INeeds advise and take the kids out for dinner
Tomorrow, Drac's aunts & cousins have invited us to go to the water park with them, so am putting packing on hold and going! We ALL need some fun!
Sat night and sunday back to packing.
7 days to closing on the house
11 days until DD and I spend our first night in the house
12 days to the start of school
15 days to the Move!
I have refrained from also giving the countdown in hours and minutes!!LOL!
HAd a thought about DSS...this is tough, and you will have to really gauge your relationship with him, but let him have a choice here...ask him what he wants from you. Ask him if he wants you to get some school supplies with you, if he wants to join in the shopping...heck, you can always send the receipt to Drac. This will be tough so you don't put DSS in the middle, but help him feel like he has some control over the situation and can begin to define your R with him...
Hi Bugs!
I did the anniversary (26th) thing back last May. I started my last thread that day. It was a bummer day until everyone from MB jumped into my thread and had a party. It had me laughing all day. The people here are great.
I just thought I would pop in and wish you the best for today.
- chrisner
LMAO...you sound like me counting down now...watch out that can be obessive!!!!
Court 42 days to go!
Final D-day 232 days to go!
POWS served 133 dAYS ago!
We left 148 days ago!
Is that bad or is that bad!
LMAO...wait...36.5% done with this D! LMAO...
(please let me you are laughing!)
Rin,
YES I AM laughing! Don't worry. God's carrying me today so I am doing really well!
StillHere,
I am giving serious thought to your suggestion but need some time to mull things over. I like the idea of finding ways for DSS to feel he has some control. I will post later about my added concerns for him right now.
Chris, thanks for stopping by. You are right that being here at MB helps this day not suck quite so much! LOL!
Later
Bugs, hang in there girl. I celebrated, or didn't celebrate, my 9th anniversary, with my GF (PWC had left two one week prior). We drank some wine and talked. I did cry a bit, just to get it out, but I let the day pass, because it was a relief to NOT be dealing with the WAYWARD.
My 8th anniversary was just awful, so no celebrating there, and my 10th went by this year (while in recovery) with just a whimper. PWC sent me a bouquet of daisies, roses and lily's, all YELLOW. It was lovely, but that was it. No huge HURRAHS or gift exchanges. Maybe next year.
Good idea to have some fun with the kiddies; summer is only so long, and you don't wanna miss out on hot summer fun.
My DS starts kindergarten this year, so I am very excited, and sad that he's growing up so fast. It's crazy how quickly the time passes, so enjoy every moment that you can with those kids.
Bugs:
Tommorrow will be 2years from Dday.
Wedding Anniversay?
We don't celebrate that any longer.
We celebrate Dday.
You will find out later, when your H returns, what you want to celebrate. Together.
In the meantime, it's just another day on the calendar.
The wine is chilling in the fridge.
Drac may or may not realize what day it is. But before the A, he might not have remembered either. Remember that. Also, YOU do not have to worry about what DRAC is doing.
(((BUGS)))
LG
Hey SL,
10 years! Wow! While I know that you are still in a rough place in recovery, give yourself some kudos here, ok? I know it's not perfect YET, but you will get there. You have the basic roadmap via MB so there is so much hope, although a lot of hard work ahead for you. Keep that special faith and attitude I have come to admire so much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
DSS starting kindergarten,,,,,,,,,my DD going into 1st grade and DSS in 8th grade this year. Where DOES the time go?
LG,
I can't believe your DDay is the day after my Anniversary. I think it is very special that you & Flamingo now celebrate that day vs the wedding day.
I will allow myself the one thought of Drac in that he did always remember my birthday & our anniversary. Roses were always the thing,,,, a dozen for every year of our wedding.
But, you know what? I absolutely LOVE my little bouquet of sunflowers and lilys that are now sitting on my desk!
I am leaving in 30 minutes for that pedicure and a bottle of CHAMPAGNE is chilling in my refrigerator right now! I will be popping that open when I go to soak in my bubble bath tonight after the kids are asleep!
The rest of today is about me enjoying me and my kids. No worries.
Thanks everyone for the encouragement!
Cool beans, Bugsy! You sound like you've got a nice evening ahead of you. Enjoy the weekend, maybe whistle while you pack...
Am sitting in the big chair having my pedicure right now! Just kicked back and relaxing!
Maybe I will strech it and have a manicure, too!
My DS starts kindergarten this year, so I am very excited, and sad that he's growing up so fast. It's crazy how quickly the time passes, so enjoy every moment that you can with those kids.
I've been trying to IGNORE you guys this afternoon...
Mimi, whose oldest son finished college a few years ago and YS is a senior in college..
Just call me SENIOR GODDESS!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
The way I get through each day, as I think of my husband. I remember the old days together, and when I think about the bad now, I think of a bad looking guy being the puppetier for my husband. That's what Satan is right now. Our husbands have no control over themselves. Satan pulls one string and then the next. But eventually God's words will weaken the strings and when they fall from the stick then the puppetier won't have control over them anymore.
God is working in our husbands. We have to sit back and relax, because the Lord plans great things for us, and it will take HIM time to pound our husbands and mold them into something good enough for us. As you grow closer to the Lord and get more goddess like, Drac will have to come up to your level.
Think of it this way. We took the elevator straight to the top. Our husbands have to take the stairs, because their elevator broke. In the midst of climbing the stairs turned into a slide. So instead of asking someone for help they are the fools only getting half way up and sliding back again. Once they ask God for help, the stairs will re-appear and they will be able to get to the top.
By the time they reach the top, we will be perfected. God has already been molding us into being the perfect helper he intended for us to be for our husbands.
When you think to yourself why is he acting this way read Romans chapter 7 verses 14-25 and read it over and over and over again.
I like this version from the NIV better than the King James.
14 We know that the law is holy. But I am not. I have been sold to be a slave of sin. 15 I don't understand what I do. I don't do what I want to do. Instead, I do what I hate to do. 16 I do what I don't want to do. So I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, I am no longer the one who does these things. It is sin living in me that does them.
18 I know there is nothing good in my sinful nature. I want to do what is good, but I can't. 19 I don't do the good things I want to do. I keep on doing the evil things I don't want to do. 20 I do what I don't want to do. But I am not really the one who is doing it. It is sin living in me.
21 Here is the law I find working in me. When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 Deep inside me I find joy in God's law. 23 But I see another law working in the parts of my body. It fights against the law of my mind. It makes me a prisoner of the law of sin. That law controls the parts of my body.
24 What a terrible failure I am! Who will save me from this sin that brings death to my body? 25 I give thanks to God. He will do it through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So in my mind I am a slave to God's law. But in my sinful nature I am a slave to the law of sin.
GOD IS SO GREAT.
I have a song called Jesus never fails and I sing it all day long. Jesus will not fail as long as we don't give up.
We have to keep our strength and endurance. We have begun the race and will not give up til we reach the finish line.
I know that there are instances when God may not bring our guys back, but HE will let you know. If I listened to others I would have been out of here months ago. It is our choice to follow God. You either follow God or Satan there is no inbetween. I love knowing that God knew from the beginning who would be saved and who would perish. The only thing he did not have planned out was how we would be saved. That is our decision.
I believe with all my heart that when someone starts out with goodness in them that they will end up good. I believe that this is their way of being saved.
It will work out. We will be able to look back at these days and laugh about it years from now. Think back to how your life was before Drac left. Can you say it was great ? Now look at it. You are stronger. The kids are loving you. You are getting a closer bond with them. God is smiling at you and you are earning bonus points for taking your stand for your marriage, and when Drac does come home, you will be more in love with him than ever.
Hope this helped.
God bless you today.
Bugs - consider the anguish of AmiOK when her then wayward was threatening to keep her stepchildren away from her.
Please treat your DSS the same way you would treat your daughter. Buy his school supplies. Leverage child support for him too, but take care of his needs and show the dear boy that at least one mother isn't going to let him go so easily.
Good morning, all!
INeed, thanks, as always for the inspiration. I will try to use those visuals when I do let my mind wander to Drac. Right now, it is exceedingly difficult, as I am very angry about the destruction Drac is leaving in his wake.
Particularly, DSS. Yesterday, my mind was mostly on him and not myself. We had a talk Thurs. night when he had an explosion of anger when DD mentioned something about Drac and the Ho being "boyfriend & girlfriend" because they kiss on the lips in front of the kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
We had a long talk, but I mostly tried to focus on getting help with controlling his anger. He had some counseling on it a bit at the end of last year in school and did fairly well with the school counselor..
Well, yesterday was a repeat, only worse. It happened several times at the sitter's house and again at home. Plus he acted up all day long, being disrespectful, biligerent, not listening, causing fights with his sister, etc. He is directing his anger at everyone BUT the one responsible for the situation. He doesn't understand that and I am not qualified to help him see it. I am very, very worried. He doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't want anyone else to talk about it. He doesn't want to hear it. Total denial and thinking it will all be ok if everybody just "shuts up".
He also said things like "arne't they entitled to their privacy?" and "It's Dad's decision, nobody else's business". It was like having Drac sitting there in front of me justifying his decisions, again not seeing or understanding the devestation that is being left in his wake, including the damage to himself.
I have absolutely no legal rights. I want to get him into counseling, but will not be here to make it happen. I can't talk to Drac about it, I have tried. He believes I am making it up and/or coaching DSS to say the things he does to me. The sitter has tried to talk to Drac, as has his Dad. He continues to tell everyone that DSS is "better than he has been in a long time". DSS will not share with Drac what he shares with me, so this is NOT going to get any better and I don't know what to do about it.
I am at a complete loss. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
The only idea I have had so far is that I am going to call the school counselor next week and go see him. I want to tell him the situation and ask that he try to help my son in my absence. I don't know what else to do.
I am open for suggestions.
BTW - my A sent a letter to Drac's that is going to really PI$$ him off when he gets it. Basically says he's been coming in the house and taking things without talking to me about it and going through my things. If he needs to be in the house before our next court date, he needs to make arrangements via the attorneys. Also, she put in a sentence about my being concerned for my safety, which I am not, but boy oh boy is that going to really set him off! Glad I am in the DARK
Kayla - - - I have started getting things for BOTH kids for
school. I couldn't do anything less.
So, getting ready to go to the water park today for a really FUN time. I hope DSS has a better day today.
Bugs
Hang in there with DSS. Twice in my teaching career (so far) I have had students who were with their X-step parent because that parent was the one who was willing to BE a parent for the step-kid. Those parents are such heroes in my eyes.
Great idea to talk to DSS's school counselor. Some of them are very qualified to help with these kinds of things, especially at the middle school level.
A counselor for DSS would be safe place for him, because those conversations are private (they can't be shared with parents) unless there are allegations of abuse-which isn't the case here.
Your DSS vents to you because he feels safe with you. He is afraid to tell his dad his real feelings because he is sooo very angry and it feels totally uncomfortable to mad at his dad. And boys have a hard time expressing their emotions. One of the things I've learned (having a twin brother and two sons) is that boys do better talking about things if they are doing something else, not sitting and talking face-to-face like females do. Even just talking in the car when they are facing forward can open up some real conversation. Or drawing pictures, playing video games etc. Also, they sometimes have difficulty saying what they feel. It can help to give them the words and then tell them if that's how they feel, what they are feeling is normal.
My DS15 was bottled up with anger and confusion. The words I gave him were something like this "I bet you feel really mad at your dad and at the same time you still love him. I bet you feel that you are disloyal to him because you are angry and confused by his actions." I paused while he processed (this was in the car). Then I said "That's normal. It's okay to be mad at him."
That seemed to help. Later, when XH was willing to have a sit down with DS, I let DS dictate what he wanted to say to his dad, but didn't want to have to put into words. I shared the information with XH before they went out for lunch. (I even gave the words to XH so he could let DS know that it was okay). I know Drac isn't ready for that kind of thing. Maybe the time will come.
There's a book I got for DS15 that I heard about on the radio show Family Life Today. It's called "Six String Rocketeer" by Jesse Butterworth, and it's his book on keeping your life together when your parents' are falling apart. It's very middle school appropriate-not very long with easy, short chapters.
Hope this helps a little.
JT,
Thanks very much for your thoughtful and helpful reply!
I do usually try to have our "talks" in the car a lot, as I have seen what you have, that it seems a bit easier for him in the non-face to face situation.
Well, Drac's playing around a bit more. He sent email that i had filtered. I was told that it said he's made arrangements for "the bills" to be sent to his Dad's, and asked if in the meantime I get anything it's OK to send it thru DSS. Funny, they don't get mail at his Dad's. Wonder where it REALLY is going.
Oh, then the GAMES begin. He's "made arrangements to have the satellite TRANSFERED to his Dad's" and that I should SEND the RECIEVERS and the REMOTES with DSS when I drop him off tomorrow OR his Dad will come pick them up.
Guess that means that as of Monday I don't get satellite TV anymore. I have told him SEVERAL times that I will pay that bill if he'd let me know how much it is and when it is due. He never did.
So, guess DD and I will be watching local channels and playing DVDs for the next 2 weeks. The thing is, I KNOW he did not TRANSFER this. His Dad already has Satellite tv at his house. So, either he's taking it to the HO's house or he's just playing games with me. Perhaps he did get the letter about staying out of the house and his A told him he'd better!!!
The only one he is hurting is DD. I could take or leave tv for the most part. I will be sure to erase all of the DVR recorded things.
So, do I send with DSS?? I think instead I will have FIL come pick them up. Will give me a chance to talk to him. I will know for sure then if it is a transfer or a game. It really doesn't matter, though, does it?
THOUGHTs??? COMMENTS????
What an A$$. Does he think that I am so simple minded and CRAZY that I'm going to let something like that bother me. WEll, let him celebrate what he thinks is a WIN. I don't care.
If he did "transfer" it will cost him to "transfer" back when he moves back here. Unless he is NOT moving back here,, but as I learned today, he's talking about moving to the same town as the HO, perhaps even moving in with her?? Then he'll be trying to stick me with 1/2 the house payment here til it sells??? Ok, let's not get too far ahead here.
#1.Most important thing. DD and I will be out of here in 2 weeks. I will talk to DSS's counselor before we are gone and continue to do what I can for him, the best I can.
And, so the darkness continues.
Someone chime in here, PLEASE!!! Needing some support right now!
Oh, and how do I go about communicating the pick up of the stuff ???
Forget to send it until you move? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
L.
What email? Just because he says it so don't mean it is. I'd let him take care of it when he moves back in.
I agree with Orchid.
You don't want to make the kids "go betweens" If he really wants to do that, then he should set it up for himself.
He's being a "maroon" as Bugs Bunny would say.
I am so impressed with what you are willing to do for DSS. Kids know who loves them. It will go a long way.
One more thing. You can always call the satellite company (playing the ditsy wife) and ASK if it's been transferred and to WHAT address.
Bugs: I can be so absent-minded sometimes, tee hee. I think DRAC already took care of this but I need to be sure so he won't get mad at me if he expected me to do it, tee hee.
Operator: Your name please?
Bugs: Mrs. DRAC (I always use this when calling about bills in my H's name and it generally works).
Operator: Do you have the account number?
Bugs: I KNOW I put the bill on the coffee table but I can't find it anywhere!! Would DRAC's SS# do? tee hee
Operator: Yes m'am. How can I help you?
And there you go.
Its just more poking at you -- desperately trying to get a reaction out of you (even if its a negative one....) Most likely a childish game trying to get a reaction from you.
So how's the ol lovebank doing? He's making lots of withdrawals...
If he sent the e-mail to YOU (not your intermediary) IGNORE IT. When you say filtered I'm not clear on the route...
If he's not following the procedure -- IGNORE.
It simply does not matter. I wouldn't call the company about it - who cares really? You're outta there in a matter of days. I would just totally ignore it and go about your business as usual.
Don't get caught up in speculating about it. Just forget it.
How's the shoulder?
and unfortunately -- expect more.
everytime you have a non-response, he ups the ante trying to get you out of Plan B.
Bugs:
For DSS use the parrot technique when he talks. Go to him and wrap your arms around him. Tell him that you know he's going through alot right now and that the only way you know how to help is by hugging him. This will make him feel safe and secure. You can let him know that you do care and that if he feels a need to talk you will be there for him, but you will not ask him to put pressure on him.
And let him vent. This is part of the healing process. My daughter withdrew for awhile and would not speak to hardly anyone. Then she went through the anger stage. You should know that they try to blame themselves for what has happened as well. My daughter kept scheming up plans to get us together.
It will work out in the long run. He will be okay.
I agree that DSS vents to you because he feels safe with you. He's also terrified of being abandoned by his Dad, so he doesn't want to do anything to upset his Dad. I think DSS will be lost without you...I hope that you will be able to be there for him always, although I know Drac is not making it easy... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I totally agree with Lexx and Orchid...
Simply IGNORE and carry on...
C'mon, he expects you to enable his fun with the HO at the expense of the enjoyment of you and your DD? Then catch you up in sending stuff through the kids, the very thing he beefed about the other day?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> OH, MY!!
He's not jerking GODDESS BUGS around!!
Hey everybody!
Thanks for the input! I am ignoring the whole satellite thing. If he sends his Dad over to get the stuff, fine. I SERIOUSLY doubt that he will, as I think he MIGHT be too embarassed for his Dad to know the kind of games he is playing. I have not doubt this is a result of "coaching" from others. Whatever.
I don't understand the "poking" at me? What is the point? I know I have asked that question before, but I still don't get it. Do they really need me to keep the A going? You'd think they'd be "happy" to settle into their long yearned for "Life together".
Again, I need to remind myself that MY focus is being out of here in now LESS THAN 2 weeks!! Whoo Hoo!
We had a GREAT time at the water park yesterday. Kids were really good and we all had fun. I have the sore muscles to prove it. Tried hard to watch the shoulder, but definately aggravated it, but it was worth it! I think I'll set up the water sprinker I bought today for fun and cooling off. I LOVED running through a sprinkler when I was a kid.
Re:DSS. Yes, he does feel safe, I think, sharing with me. Drac doesn't understand or believe it, but it is true. For those of you who may not know from my first thread, his mom left when he was 3 months old. Drac has had him full time all of his life. She saw him off and on until he was 5. When I came along, we put some major rules in place that she could not/would note follow the rules and drifted away. A few years ago, we went and got FULL legal custody of him. She showed back up to "fight" it, but saw him 3 times and that was it. We have not seen or heard from her at ALL since then. No calls, no cards, no visits.
There is a lot of pent up anger and hurt from that. Since she left and before me, Drac had a series of at least 3 serious relationships (I guess that is what you would call them) with women who can into his life and then left him.
I know it is fear. I know he is afraid of abadonment. I know there is only so much I can do, but I am going to do what I can for as long as I can.
Funny, yesterday at the waterpark was with Drac's family. Most of them have not heard ANYTHING from ME about our sitch. They did ask me some questions, and I was open and honest. Everyone of them is VERY upset with Drac. They all are in full support of me and said so. It's a good/bad feeling. I WISH that they had some kind of real influence with him that would help bring him out of the fog! Well atleast it is good to hear from people that know us both that I am doing OK.
So, gonna read a few thread, make some breakfast, and play outside!
Have a great day.
Hey everybody!
I am ignoring the whole satellite thing. If he sends his Dad over to get the stuff, fine. I SERIOUSLY doubt that he will, as I think he MIGHT be too embarrassed for his Dad to know the kind of games he is playing. I have not doubt this is a result of "coaching" from others. Whatever.
I don't understand the "poking" at me? What is the point? I know I have asked that question before, but I still don't get it. Do they really need me to keep the A going? You'd think they'd be "happy" to settle into their long yearned for "Life together".
Once I was a school teacher. Before that, when I was in college, studying human behavior, child development, etc. I learned that sometimes children will behave badly to get attention because any attention is better than being ignored...
Drac HATES being ignored. He's doing whatever he can to get a rise out of you and get back into your attention.
Keep staying dark B! He needs what's good for him, not what he wants. And what's good for him is to feel exactly what he's feeling right now. Don't let him escape that discomfort and nasty tasting medicine by paying attention to him.
You're doing really good at focusing properly on DSS, DD and you. Keep it up!
Drac HATES being ignored. He's doing whatever he can to get a rise out of you and get back into your attention.
Keep staying dark B! He needs what's good for him, not what he wants. And what's good for him is to feel exactly what he's feeling right now. Don't let him escape that discomfort and nasty tasting medicine by paying attention to him.
AMEN!!
Bugs, if HO was able to meet ALL of his needs -- he'd be long gone and never have looked back. He would be completely ambivilent towards you. The opposite of love is INDIFFERENCE.
You met needs. He still wants those met, even if he has to make you angry to engage. He's trying to pull you from withdrawal to conflict, hoping to regain intimacy.
Read the "stages of marriage".
He wants you back where he had you before -- meeting the needs the HO can't. He hasn't realized that having 2 women available to him isn't a PERMANENT STATE! He thinks he can manipulate you into a friendship thereby maintaining you meeting those needs.
Hey Bugsy,
My son, too, had anger issues when his father left home. I was told that many children manifest their pain with silence or anger. My son began pushing his friends, pushing them down, talking back, not listening, crying uncontrollably, and being highly disruptive, refused to act as part of the group, began soiling his pants, refused to do homework and activity sheets (which he LOVED before). Before all of this turmoil occurred, he listened, followed directions, cleaned up when directed, functioned VERY WELL in a group and rarely hit anyone else, unless they were having a normal kids fight.
Now, DS is doing pretty well. He's now just an annoying 5 year old, trying to gain control of everything, fighting me every step of the way. Normal behavior for a 5 yo. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I used to talk to my son all of the time in the car, in a very serious way, about his loss; DS was very receptive (at 3-4 years old!). Many school districts (counties) offer free professional counseling. It's a good idea to contact them first, so that the school will be made aware of your DSS struggles.
Mimi,
Then catch you up in sending stuff through the kids, the very thing he beefed about the other day?? OH, MY!!
He's not jerking GODDESS BUGS around!!
EXACTLY my thoughts! It really kind it got to me that he now WANTS me to do something he said not to do. What is up with that?? His was of being "nice"??
Lexx, you said
Bugs, if HO was able to meet ALL of his needs -- he'd be long gone and never have looked back. He would be completely ambivilent towards you. The opposite of love is INDIFFERENCE.
You met needs. He still wants those met, even if he has to make you angry to engage. He's trying to pull you from withdrawal to conflict, hoping to regain intimacy.
Read the "stages of marriage".
He wants you back where he had you before -- meeting the needs the HO can't. He hasn't realized that having 2 women available to him isn't a PERMANENT STATE! He thinks he can manipulate you into a friendship thereby maintaining you meeting those needs
THIS is what I think I was WANTING to hear. Needing to hear, I think. You asked me earlier how my Love Bank was doing. I spent some time thinking about that today. It has taken almost nothing but withdrawls now since October of last year. Few deposits here & there, but not much.
Honestly, it it looked like he WAS totally ambivilent, my love bank would probably be EMPTY. If I didn't know what I have learned here, it would certainly FEEL empty but I would not realize what was really going on.
So, truth be told, I really to FEEL pretty good. Not so much for the fact that he's trying to draw me out (although I will admit to that giving me hope), but because I am continuing to focus on me, DD, and DSS. I know that no matter what Drac does or doesn't do, WE will continue on. We can/will find happiness in our lives, as we are doing right now.
Lots of bumps and humps in the road ahead, but we'll really be fine.
SL, I DO remember what you were going thru with your DS. I remember, as well, how perceptive your little guy is. I am SO glad he is doing well.
DSS is somewhat "fighting" the idea of counseling (that is Drace talking, too), but I am moving forward with getting in touch with the counselor this week.
Am going to go have the kids do a "fashion show" with the clothes I bought them for school. Maybe we'll go do some shopping, too!!
Thanks so much for the input. It did really help so much!
Oh, DD just told me that Drac informed her that HE will be picking up DSS here today. That is NOT how I put it in the schedule! SO, we will be outta here!!! I will take DSS home whether he likes it or not. Not sure what it is he doesn't want me to see over there. Probably has his motorcycle there. Like I give a crap! :_
Atta-girl bugs! Stick to the plan -- don't let his little messages get through if he's not using the right channels.
Its sorta like training him to behave in Plan B.
Do not respond, react, or acknowledge ANY communication that comes through an inappropriate channel.
I know its a relief to know that Plan B is annoying to him. I think that is why so many BS's allow breaches in the early days -- so that they have a way to know that its having an effect.
BUT, those little breaches delay Plan B. A true dark Plan B is where the WH has to come to terms with NOT getting all of their needs met. And the sooner that happens the better -- right???
I can't imagine a tougher age for this to happen to DSS.
Poor kiddo. Just when he is becoming interested in relationships and girls -- his dad completely blows it.
What a ROTTEN unspoken message on how to treat women and behave in a relationship.
Do whatever you can for that poor kid in terms of counseling. I'm sure Drac will not be on board with it, because it makes him admit that his behavior is responsible for DSS's problems. It interferes with that fantasy that everyone will be *better than ever* after tearing up the family.
Oh, DD just told me that Drac informed her that HE will be picking up DSS here today.
Sheesh! What is this if it's not "sending messages through the kids" ????? Maybe you should document this.
I agree wholeheartedly with all that Lexx is telling ya..
Want to add this to your thinking so you will be prepared...
There is a GOOD chance that he will move in with the OW or try to spend as much time as possible with her..
It's hard to believe but that's actually A GOOD THING...GREAT, IN FACT...
He will be MISSING YOU..she will be pressured to meet ALL OF HIS NEEDS...24/7..she will fail..cause she will NOT BE YOU..she will LB, let her guard down, become more demanding..he will get a chance to see the REAL HER...the FANTASY is more likely to BURST...ALL GOOD STUFF...
So if you hear about this, don't let it get you down..as hard as that may be...it's not gonna be all lovey-dovey for them...
I used to think of them as leading this FUN-FILLED, EXCITING, ROMANTIC life while all the time their life became more MUNDANE, REAL AND BORING...my H found out she was "just like any other woman"..DUH.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Great work, Bugsy, on DODGING HIS EFFORTS to BREAK THROUGH THE B...
Fiat,
Oh it got better with the 'messages'. I took the kids school shopping. DSS made sure to tell me that Drac told HIM he would pick him up around 6 from the house.
So, I made sure we were on the way home and timed it to drop off DSS at the scheduled time, as it says in my PBL. While we were on the way home, drac called my phone. DSS had left his at my house when we went shopping. Drac alled it first. I had suspected this might happen, so my phone was on vibrate. Oops, we didn't hear it ring!
I dropped off DSS and Drac was not there. Why does he insist on picking him up when the schedule specifically states we each drop off on Sun at 6PM?!!
We had just pulled out of FIL's street and I saw a Durango like Drac's coming, but he did not see me. I turned to we would not pass each other.
DD asked to call him, on the way home,so I let her. He told her he was just pulling in the driveway, so I did the right thing in taking a different way! We would have passed him. She told him about shopping and I guess he asked her if she was going to school in our toWn!! [censored]! He knows she isn't. He was just fishing for info!!
DD and I went to pick up dinner and ice cream. As we were pulling out, Drac drove by us. I told DD we were going for a short drive. I had seen Drac spot us, he went down to the next place and I saw him turn around and I KNEW he was going to follow us.
We were gone an extra 20 minutes. Arrived home, no Drac, thank goodness.
How far do I have to go to avoid him??!!
Mimi,
I do suspect he is planning to move in with her. He mentioned to DSS about going to school in her town.
I realize the 'logic' of what you are saying. I just hope I can align my heart if/when the time would come.
I think the kids had fun shopping. DSS was hesitant, as he has no list of what he needs, as he even said he does not know where he is going to go to school. I told him not to worry, we'd get the basics that he will need no matter where he goes. He seemed to perk up as we got more things.
Gonna go eat some ice cream!
Drac called DD at about 20 min past the usual evening call time. She was in the tub. As they had talked 2 hrs prior, I did not expect another call.
I had her call him when she got out of the tub. After she told me that she told Daddy that we drove bt her school to see it 1 last time and to say goodbye. This is true, as we had talked earlier,,,after she talked to Drac the first time, I told her she would not be going to the same school this year, and that we had already talked about it. When I said we were going for a drive, she asked if we could go see her school one las time and say goodbye.
What a kid!
So, she then tells me after the last call that 'Daddy sounded like he was crying when he said goodbye. He was all quiet and then had to go real fast'
Is is possible that having to face the reality of HIS decisions is finally happening? Even if it is just facing not having DD right around the corner!?! He KNEW this was coming!!
What the heck?! Is he merely playing DD??
no - he's either having a momentary patch of clearing in the fog, or he's playing YOU - don't think about what he's thinking or realizing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Don't do this, Bugs.
Don't triangle your daughter into the relationship between you and Drac.
You can't possibly know what's going on with Drac based on the nature of his conversations with your daughter.
Try to stay out of their conversations.
This keeps you from being DARK by latching onto his JUNK ..your daughter, young as she is and hurt as she is, may be hearing it like she wants to hear or saying what she feels may be comforting to you. She will start doing the same with him..YUCK...
Don't let her start being a go between.
She will then begin to work on trying to get you two back together. It is too much for her.
I was in that position for years as a little girl and really paid the price for it..years in psychotherapy...years of trying TO FIX THINGS that were out of my control.
Focus on YOUR RELATIONSHIP with YOUR DAUGHTER..talk about that..
The only thing that matters with DRAC is for him to END HIS AFFAIR..PERIOD..
Otherwise, who in the heck can know what is going on with him...
ALl that is important to know is that he is still having an affair...whether he is crying or not...
SORRY...
Flashback of being in BUGS' SHOES...
Thanks for the replies! It is VERY hard not think about what he is thinking sometimes!
Mimi,
I never ask DD any questions about her conversations with Drac. But, when she comes to me and wants to talk about it, I think it is important to let her talk. I want her to be able to feel safe telling me anything, even if it is hard for me to hear. I do understand what you are saying and doing what I can to avoid what you are talking about
This am Drac called the house. DD was asleep and I did not answer. I did not even ck to see if there was a message.
I took my time getting ready so to mix up the time we were getting to the sitters. If he was leaving FIL's house as he called, he would have arrived there at my usual time.
I pulled in the sitters drive and he was turning around to pull out! I pulled where my car's backend was facing him. DD waved to him, I stared straight ahead. I saw in my mirror that he hesitated a lot approaching, behing, and then past the car. He even stopped. I backed out, again with the backend of my car facing him and went on to the sitters.
I was afraid he would be going to the house then and taking the satellite stuff. He didn't
Will he finally get that I am serious about this??
I never ask DD any questions about her conversations with Drac. But, when she comes to me and wants to talk about it, I think it is important to let her talk. I want her to be able to feel safe telling me anything, even if it is hard for me to hear. I do understand what you are saying and doing what I can to avoid what you are talking about
I agree that it is important for you to listen to her. However, you being the Mommy, you can make it clear to her that LISTENING is all that you can do. Just be careful that you don't try to INTERPRET the MEANING for her behind what her Daddy is saying or how he is saying it. Somehow, I think, you can make it clear that you are JUST LISTENING and let her know that neither YOU nor BUGS can FIX THIS. Let her know that it is up to DRAC to FIX THIS. ALL that the both of you can do is to LET GO AND LET GOD. His TEARS could mean absolutely nothing. Sadly, given that he is with the HO, he will go to her for comfort. Isn't that AWFUL? In PLAN B, it's the BOTTOM LINE..END THE AFFAIR. Simple but not easy. I used to tell my H that it only takes a minute..COLD TURKEY...
Will he finally get that I am serious about this??
You can't control him, remember. Who knows if he will get it or not? You can only control yourself...so more work is necessary on patching up the holes.
Mimi,
Exactly right on with not interpreting things he says to her. I do my best to make sure that I do not do that. She will even ask me WHY questions - to which I tell her honestly, I do not know.
Both kids know that I do not see or talk to Daddy because it is hurtful to me. They both know the terms under which that would change. I have not dwelled on it, but have been completely honest.
I suppose you are right, that by asking the question about him understanding if I am serious, that I may be looking to control him. What I want, for the moment, is to avoid any conflict or contact. I want the peace I have begun to feel by disengaging from him.
I realize how hurtful the smallest of things are to me. The calls, the kid's comments, etc. As there are kids involved, a certain amount of this will always happen, but I want it to be as minimal as possible.
This Fri is a concert I had planned to take DD to see. If you remember, I bought tickets the day they went on sale and DD immediately called Drac to tell him. That is when I found out that he had already gotten tickets on a pre-sale.
DD told me she asked Daddy if it was OK for her to go to the concert with me, even though it is his weekend. He told her NO. He was taking her. She wants to go with me. But, I just assured her that she would have a great time going with Daddy.
I am not going to even bring it up to Drac. He likely expects me to break Plan B because of it,,,this is DD's favorite singer. But, it is not worth breaking Plan B AND asking would open the door to him being able to ask to change the schedule. I am not going to do that.
Counting down. 12 days to the move! 8 days until DD and I are in the house.
I want to make sure you know that I think that you are doing GREAT, WONDERFUL, SPECTACULAR!!
If it sounds like I'm being hard on you, I'm sorry.
You are hearing my DISGUST and ABHORENCE of AFFAIRS. I HATE this for CHILDREN and FAMILIES. So, I get OBSESSED with the desire to BUST AFFAIRS UP...My heart aches for your DD and DS....
Plus, I pray for you and others here to be as HAPPY AS ME...
The HAPPIER I am sometimes..the more FRUSTRATED I get sometimes when I come here...
So there...
Much love to ya..
Mimi
Mimi,
Having read and posted so much with you over these last 7 months, I think I know your intentions, which are always meant for good.
I may twinge from time to time, but that is ok. I would rather have direct, factual, input any day than have somone coddle me nicely and risk missing some important facts which might lead to my making some serious errors in judgement!
Nevertheless, thanks for claifying where you are coming from!
I had someonme listen to the message on the home phone for me. They said it sounded like an accidental dial. All they heard was road noise. Interesting because Drac has a flip phone that should not do that.
I know I am not supposed to wonder, but where the heck would he have been driving? The timing this am was such that it makes no sense. Only explainatiojn is one I REALLY don't want to thinkl about. That he and DSS spent night at the Ho's OR he left DSS w/ FIL. Which also means that DSS was alone after 3am, when FIL left for work!! THAT would just put me over the top!
How do I keep from thinking about that stuff? A better filter? As in the person who listened should have just said No message was left?
To keep on the right focus this morning I first called DSS's school and left a message for the counselor asking for an appt to discuss DSS. The counselor is out for today, so I hope to hear from him tomorrow
Next, I phoned the real estate agent to ck on when to transfer the utilities to my name. Left her a vm
Then I spoke w/my parents. Appraisal is done. Money is transfered to the right accounts, paperwork almost all done, and bank rep will be at the closing Friday am. All we have to do is be patient and show up on Friday! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />:):):)
I then sent my A documentation to back my financial claims, copies of checks, credit card statements,etc. I included info on the satellite deal so that she can address it.
So, hard time not thinking, wondering about Drac, but trying to stay busy.
Staying busy certainly helps.
Keep searching to find activities that put you into THE FLOW..where you lose sense of time. You'd be surpised what will do it for you. Cross-stitching and gardening did it for me..but as soon as I STOPPED to MEDITATE the thoughts would come flooding in.."What's he doing now; What are they doing now?"..I understand, Bugs. BEEN THERE DONE THAT. It is so HARD, AWFUL and TRAUMATIC and you are doing as well as anyone could ever expect under the circumstances.
As an aside, go ahead and tell yourself that this is a GIVEN....HE IS BINGING ON HER RIGHT NOW AND THERE IS NO TELLING THE DEPTHS TO WHICH HE IS SINKING...My H told me that he went to the GATES OF HE!!..so all that you are saying about his care of your DSS may well be true. You will need to keep a close watch on the situation, particularly when your DD is in his care because parenting is certainly not his priority right now. The WS is like a COCAINE ADDICT. All he is thinking about is his next FIX. He has to sink low, low, to reach his bottom, Bugs. This is the ONLY WAY that he will chose to come back home. Good for RECOVERY of the MARRIAGE...AWFUL and RISKY for the children.
Decorating the house will keep you busy. Make it GIRLY, GIRLY!!!
Isn't AWFUL knowing that your WH is likely doing all of the horrible things you may be imagining?!?
Yet, by truly facing that as fact, it helps me in letting go, in that why would I want THIS kind of person in my life? Now, that being said, the same thing makes it HARDER to let go, as I have virtually NO choice in the fact that this kind of person continues to be in the lives of my children, and thus, a small part of mine. I do have to remain diligent and somewhat aware of what goes on in regards to keeping my kids safe.
I LOVE to garden, but I refuse to do any work at the house. I am saving my energy for my own place. Let Drac deal with the flower beds full of weeds!
I just have to stay busy for 7 more days and THEN can have full focus on MY house!
First order of business will be setting up my office, and then decorating DD's room. She has already said she wants it to be in a Cheetah Girls theme. Of course, I have found nothing available yet in that theme! Ha!
I can not wait for the vacation days I am taking for the move!
Plus, it is really HOT here. We can work hard and then relax & cool off in the pool!!
Yes, Bugsy.
That's how I coped with it. Eventually, I came to find it best to ACCEPT THE REALITY OF HIS DREADFULNESS AS A GIVEN and then to move on with what I could CONTROL and that was MYSELF and MY LIFE. I focused on what I could do DAILY to cope the best way that I could.
Thankfully, my son had the choice not to deal with him, being a teenager, driving and involved with his own friends as a SALVATION for him.
I didn't like what I heard about your daughter having to see them kiss. That is soo inappropriate. Who knows what else she sees? Like I said, keep a close check 'cause you might need to restrict the visitation in some way.
Back to the GOOD STUFF..THE HOUSE..that will be GREAT FUN for you two...
SHAKE THAT MAN OUT OF YOUR HEAD!!!!
"SHAKE IT OFF"... as Mariah (Carey) says...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Well, he did it. DD and I turned on the tv and no satellite.
She asked what happened, so I told her. Needless to say she is not happy with Daddy. I made it no big deal, and let her pick a movie.
He does not see the damage is is doing to his kids. First the satellite thing and then the concert at the end of the week. It is just like dealing with another CHILD.
He's having a hissy fit and acting out with no regard for anyone else. He's just worried about getting HIS way.
NO...he's trying to break your Plan B. He is trying EVERYTHING to get you to respond.
You are not responding and he is going nuts.
Good job Bugs. I've been reading your thread daily since the beginning. I keep up with your sitch more than I do some of my closest friends.
And I pray for you...and for Drac too. That God will break Drac...and in time for the two of you to heal.
I would expect more attempts at an end run around your Fortress Plan B.
Stay strong and stay dark.
IAG,
First, thanks for the prayers! I will take all I can get!
I laughed to hear how you have been following my sitch!!
Well DD did her nightly call to Drac. Before she called she asked me if it was OK to ask Daddy about the tv. I said sure.
Apparently she did ask - as usual, I did not listen. She told me his answer was no answer. He said that ' you should talk to him'.
We didn't really discuss,as I do not want her acting as a go between. I just listened and said, oh and moved on.
Sooooo,,, if she interpreted what he said correctly, you are right on the money. If I don't talk to him he just does what he wants?
Funny, but when I DID talk to him he did what he wanted! Haha!
And who is putting DD in the middle? I guess I am in a way and I really do not want to do that. But, I am not going to talk to him.
Any suggestions to do anything differently? Or stay on course?
Bugsmom
I am in a dark Plan B too (though I am convinced in my sitch it is a direct throughfare to Plan D.) And I am decorating my house and making it very GIRLY--WH would HATE that!!
Hee hee..
snartiepants
Bugs:
I believe drac and my husband may have grown up together. The are so controling of us. It is funny that when you are in it you don't see it, but as you are backed away and looking in it is as bright as day.
He gets mad and upset because he knows he can't control you anymore. You are doing what you want and he will have to pay.
Hope you think like me though, we will have to get our husbands tested a couple of times before they can have their cake at home.
I only hope I can do as well as you are. You are a strong person and I know this will work out .
I don't think it's about CONTROL as much as wanting TO EAT CAKE...
Smartie,
Well, I have yet to decide how to decorate my New house, but it is going to keep me busy.
Hope your sitch works out. No matter what, take care of you!
INeed,
It is hard to see thing clearly while in the thick of things. That is one of the things I love about being on this board, getting outside opinions from folks, especially those who have been through this and are knowledgable in MB principles.
Mimi,
You know I continue to struggle with understanding the idea of it being cake eating vs control or even punishment.
I took my HN/HN book home I wanted to go back and read more about being in conflict.
Is THAT what you are talking about? That by engaging me in conflict, that in some strange way meets some of his needs? What need would that meet?
Bugs - still here with you in darkness.
Still doing mah-ve-lous <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
IAPBS,
Hey you Plan B Stud!
Love the new name!
Just catching up with you bugsy!
And giggling my a$$ off!
He's chasing you all over town, sending messages through the kids, calling your phone, text messaging you, shutting off your TV service -- whats next? How are the lightbulbs?
Really? This strikes you as a man "happy" with Plan B?
You aren't dark enough. Maybe the move will end the sightings he is desperate to get. The kids are your Plan B weakness right now. They just don't understand, poor kids.
You're doing awesome. When I say you're not dark enough I am not blaming you or saying you aren't doing what you can. Its just that he is frantic to get around Plan B. For someone that desperate, its hard to be perfect! You are doing a fabulous job!
At least you don't have long until you move! You'll just have to be creative with other diversions for you and DD.
What a weasel he is!!
You know I continue to struggle with understanding the idea of it being cake eating vs control or even punishment.
In agreement with Lexx, he is trying anything he can to LURE YOU out of PLAN B.
He wants HIS CAKE and EAT IT, TOO.
Rather than give up the OW and come to you himself, begging and pleading, he wants YOU to come to HIM and to say it's OK to be in the THREESOME.
He NEEDS you to meet certain NEEDS and her to MEET OTHERS. He is learning all too quickly that SHE CANNOT MEET ALL OF HIS NEEDS..BUT..he has not SUFFERED enough in order to make the decision to GIVE HER UP...
He still thinks that he can still pull you out into PLAYING HIS GAME of having the BOTH OF YOU, having you still THERE as his FRIEND and CONFIDANTE...
I know the MO of the CAKE-EATER all too well, unfortunately...
Highlighted in pink on p.168 of my edition of HNHN
A separation is helpful in protecting the emotions of the betrayed spouse. But another reason a separation is helpful is that the betrayed spouse witholds the fulfillment of needs he/she performed prior to the affair.. In most cases, a lover meets one or two important emotional needs, and a spouse meets two or three. The wayward spouse comes to realize that the lover cannot meet needs his/her spouse had met and it sometimes leads to the realization that "you can't have your cake and eat it, too". A separation may also result in the opportunity for unpleasant experiences between a spouse and lover, driving down the Love Bank Account.....The lover will simply never be able to take the place of the spouse, but the spouse can take the place of the lover.
I bet I couldn't tell you how many times I read this passage..
I read it over and over again....
To keep be vigilant about PLAN B...
Mimi touched on this earlier.
As painful and crazy as this sounds -- the more HO the better!
You suspect he might be moving in with her -- GREAT!
He's spending nights with her -- GREAT!
Because the more he sees her, the more he will see that she is NOT ENOUGH. Not only does she have to compensate for the loss of BUGS, but he will come to expect MORE than that from her.
He has given up so much for her. He has lost the respect of friends and family. He's become isolated (not getting invited to family outings....disapproval everywhere....)
He is also losing financially.
Here is where OM and I started getting into a HUGE struggle.
Each step I took in dismantling increased my expectations of him.
I was a married woman expecting FIDELITY from a single man!
And he was a single man using that status to make me jealous as a way to manipulate me into moving faster!
I was dragging my feet because I was uncertain of him. And he kept on making me more uncertain because I couldn't trust him (I know, roll your eyes!) It was just a ridiculous situation!
That's where Drac is now. You already know there are cracks and fissures in their relationship. HO will think she is winning. She will let her guard down. She will stop performing. And yet NOW is when Drac is expecting her BEST.
HA. The more of that the better!
Ok, this all does seem Strange to me, but I see where it 'makes sense". It's not a natural jump for me, but I'm working on it.
Thanks for the GREAT explanations and clarifications. These posts have really, really helped me today. They have also INSPIRED me to remain as dark as possible. Obviously, rooting for more "Ho" time goes against the grain, but with the above information, I see where I should be viewing it as a "good thing" for now. OUCH, it hurts to say it, but I am "getting" it.
The experience you both have had in this gives me such valuable insight. What a crazy concept it is! It does require me to really, really firm up my own self esteem. I HAVE to know for myself, in my heart & soul, that she Can Not replace me. It's one thing to read it on paper (BTW- that page is getting my highlighter tonight!); it's another thing to Believe it myself and hold onto that for a strong Plan B.
Your posts also help me to see even more, the value of Letting Go. They can't fail if I don't let go. The more I stay engaged, the more I am potentially "helping" their relationship. Again, counter intuitive, but am starting to better understand. And, if they somehow continue to hold on, the more I've let go, the easier it will be for me to move on when the time comes. OR, let's say they fail and Drac still chooses not to return, I will be at a better place for that. Honestly, that is one of my biggest fears, that they will break up and he will not return
Of course, this has been one of Drac's statements to me, so I have let it take root. Not sure how to excise that thought/fear yet.
I am just going to try to stay focused in the present and continue to turn the rest over to God.
Thanks for helping me continue to learn, to strech, to reach for something better!
Drac is highly invested on you "getting over him".
If you reach a point of not caring about what he does, then its that much easier for him to pretend no one was harmed.
That is why you will hear "even if I am not with her, I will not be with you." Because he wants you to believe it.
Words. Just words, cuz lets look at his ACTIONS. When he and HO "broke up" who was he sleeping with? Enough said.
Your greatest fear is them breaking up and him not returning? Really? What is scary about that?
My greatest fear for you is that your life will be great, and then this ratty, smelly, broken, ol Drac will reappear and want back in!!!
Ohh Lexxxy,,,,,,,,,,
I think I am probably like most BSs, in that going into Plan B, we do worry that the WS takes it as a sign that we have "gotten over them" despite our every effort to show and tell them the purpose of Plan B being about preservation of the love we still have for them. We worry that WS does take it as carte blanche to do whatever they want with the "approval" or at least without the interference of their BS. It's a scary prospect for a BS, but I DO GET that it is necessary. Just not EASY!!
I KNOW, I KNOW, STOP thinking about what HE is thinking or not thinking!! I AM trying! REALLY I am!
You KNOW that of course my life is going to be GREAT!! And I do not want a ratty, smelly, broken ol' Drac,,,,,,,,,,,I want my H back. Nothing less will ever do!
I just put in my online application for power and gas service
I have an appointment with the public works dept to set up the water, sewer and trash service.
Am going on line tonight to get some coupons on my cable/internet/phone service and will have that completed tonight as well.
63 hours until the closing!!
135 hours until current owners are OUT!
169 hours until DD and me are there to spend our first night!
265 hours until it is even DARKER with me and DD permanently moved!
Woooooo Hoooooo! Love the HOUR version of the countdown!
He never did sign the waiver, did he? Yet another way he was hoping to coax you out of darkness! Or maybe INTO darkness since he is DRAC!!! He hates having you stand in your brilliant lightness!
Bugs, by the way I know this all seems counter-intuitive, but you get it. Way easier than most BW's. And you've remained consistant and true to the MB plans.
I award you mega-points! Since you are a points kinda gal...
"even if I am not with her, I will not be with you."
Bugs, I heard the EXACT same thing. Hurt to the core at the time (cause I didn't know better!). But Lex is right, they were just words. His actions say different, just like my FWH did.
So don't let those silly ole words from the past hurt you today and make you afraid. They have NO POWER. They are EMPTY.
You're doing great-- otherwise DRAC wouldn't be stumbling all over himself to get your attention.
Thanks Lexxx & Meggy!
You know, I worry sometime that 'getting it' may mean that my love bank is empty. But then I imagine how I would feel if a truly broken, humble, and repentant H walked in the door. Hpw would I feel?
Suspicious? Scared? Worried about the long hard road to recovery? Yes to all of that! But, I would also so LOVE to feel his arms around me and to hear him profess his love for me.
So, as long as I have that, I know where I stand.
Also, the fact that I do fear him never doing that.
Good point about the waiver, Lexx! I had not thought of that as an attempt to draw me out. It is hard for ME to see these games as attempts to draw me out vs every other option.
Today has helped me start to see this differently, but as you also pointed out it does feel counter intuitive.
DD and I are having picnic/movie night in my room.
Oh yeah, I also stopped on the way home and took care of renting the moving truck!!
Later!
Bugs,
I am sooo proud of you. I referred Tami from the Recovery thread over to read your Plan A thread and also Plan B as I think she will most likely need it. She can't get her WH to agree to NC.
Anyway, you're doing terrific!!!
Only 2 things can happen.
1. Drac eventually defogs and becomes H again, or
2. Bugs moves on and lives a happy, fulfilling life without the tainted Drac and all the turmoil.
I just wanted to tell you about "Letting Go", by Dr. Zev Wanderer. When and if you are ready, it is a good read. It really helped me when I was seperated.
It helped me detatch somewhat from my WH and the pain his entitlment attitude was causing me. Once I felt "OK, I can't control him, his actions, his feelings, so all I can do is worry about me & my children.
I thought letting go would be the best thing for me at that point my health was suffering due to lack of sleep, the inability to eat and all the stress. And just deciding that did release a bit of that. I guess it kinda helped me do a half a$$ Plan B, as I wasn't lucky enough to know about MB yet.
Just food for thought. Lots of love & luck to you!!!
Hey Jaded!
I hope my thread can help someone else! Thanks so much for the kind words, the encouragement and the book recommendation,
It just keeps getting better and better here in PlanB.
The phone rang earlier and caller I.D.said no data so I figured it was a telemarketer. It wasn't til DD said the answering machine was blinking that I knew something was up.
No caller I.D. No voice mail. No call waiting. NO LONG DISTANCE SERVICE.
Drac sure is pushing hard. The only response I had to this was laughter and will be forwarding the email I sent him back in April offering to pay the bill to my attorney along with the details of this latest stunt so we have it for court.
He had to Specifically ask to remove all of these services as we had a bundled package of services!
As if I am going to break Plan B for this! Although not having long distance bothers me as my family is ALL long distance. Good thing I have a cell.
Suspicious? Scared? Worried about the long hard road to recovery? Yes to all of that! But, I would also so LOVE to feel his arms around me and to hear him profess his love for me.
Bugs, I can so identify with these feelings. It's the same way I feel about WW, just hoping that the light will come on and W will appear.
Good morning, all!
IAPBS,
I hear you! I have been working hard to remember that the only one with the power to flip that light switch is our WS. We have run the wiring, we hooked up the switch, we have connected and checked the power source (Plan A), but only THEY can turn it on. In the meantime, we are free to go to other rooms and places of light. It is important that we keep in the light elsewhere and avoid depression! While to the WS, we are totally dark where they can not see us UNTIL they choose to flip that switch.
I just sat down at work and it dawned on me how thankful I am to everyone here and to God for the help and strength I have been given thru these last 10 months. One of my passwords at work right now is Blessed07. Despite the trials, I do feel blessed.
Really, think about it. If 10 months ago had Drac turned off the satellite, switched off caller, id, vm, call waiting, and long distance service I would have COMPLETELY lost it! Today, it's just another fact of life. I don't like it. I think it is amazingly selfish, intentionally cruel, and terribly manipulative on his part. Yet, what REAL effect does it have on MY life? None. It is inconvenient. Just like having a traffic detour. It is can be a PAIN in the a$$, but now that I know it's there, I can avoid any delays in the future AND it does not keep me from reaching my intended destination.
On the flip side, what does it mean for Drac? I'm not sure, but having read here about other WH, I'd make a guess that it has to be a bit Frustrating. He's done something that he thinks gives him power. It helps him "satisfy" the Ho, telling her how he is no longer "supporting" me on those things, making himself more dedicated to her?? Perhaps this was a demand she made?? He likely believes it will hurt me or anger me in some way. He is waiting for an angry outburst from me. Old Bugs would have done that.
But alas, Drac still doesn't understand who he is dealing with. I am New Bugs. The one with all of the wonderful qualities of the wife he knew & loved, combined with all kinds of new learning, new attitude, new feelings, new skills, and a PLAN for life.
Lexxxy, your post yesterday reminded me of a song, "My Future's so Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades"! Diva shades, of course!
So, am I on the right track here? Anyone have a differing thought on this or does it make sense??
We have run the wiring, we hooked up the switch, we have connected and checked the power source (Plan A), but only THEY can turn it on.
another great analogy - so vivid, so perfect. Thanks for sharing that.
But alas, Drac still doesn't understand who he is dealing with. I am New Bugs. The one with all of the wonderful qualities of the wife he knew & loved, combined with all kinds of new learning, new attitude, new feelings, new skills, and a PLAN for life.
You are AWESOME, MARVELOUS!
You have SOOOO GOT IT!!!
It helps him "satisfy" the Ho, telling her how he is no longer "supporting" me on those things, making himself more dedicated to her?? Perhaps this was a demand she made?? He likely believes it will hurt me or anger me in some way. He is waiting for an angry outburst from me. Old Bugs would have done that.
IF this is the case (and you really don't care, right?) but just for fun imagine this convo:
HO: (evil wicked grin) So... what'd Bugs do when she found out about the satellite?
DRAC: Nothing.
HO: (perplexed frown to evil wicked grin) What do you mean nothing? I bet she's PO'd. What'd she do when she found about the phone?
DRAC: Nothing! Why don't you just leave me alone about Bugs.
HO: (Silence. Angry frown.) What'd I say?!? What are you hiding?! Why won't you tell me what happened?!?
DRAC: (Muttering under his breath) This is getting old and what the he$$ is wrong with Bugs.
IPBS,
Thanks - I have been feeling rather reflective and trying to figure out ways in my head to better visualize and understand Plan B.
Plan A, while often counter intuitive, was much easier for me. DOING something came much easier than letting go. I am continually working on letting go, accepting, trying to concentrate on doing for ME, while not wondering what Drac is doing, what is he thinking, what will he think, etc. Hard hard hard!!
Mimi,
Thanks! Now, just help me keep on the path! I almost feel like a recovering addict who is finishing the 12 step program! I am not well versed in it, but am enough to know this is the Plan best for my life.
The temptation is there every second of every day to want to engage.
To pick up the phone, send an email, write a letter, cry my eyes out, beg him to come back, go beat the snot out of OW!
But the temptation becomes less and less every day!
Or better yet, Meggy, he probably wishes he had SOMETHING to talk to her about...That's what he's yearning for, probably...CONVERSATION...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Oh Meggy!
You gotta love that! BUGS now the one grinning an EVIL grin:).
And Mimi is right. Now that there is NO response from me, just WHAT will they talk about?
Well, the fun party life is gotta be running out soon. Drac is almost outta money (well he does now have all tha savings not supporting me LOL!). But school is starting next week. Think THAT will bring a HUGE dose of reality to Affairland!
He can talk to her about his work, but she is unskilled in her ability to support or advise him at his level. Besides, I have a feeling it is only the $$ and fringe benefits she cares about. Soon, he will be spending more time at the JOB (he'll have to to keep it). She ain't gonna like or support THAT!
Hmmmm. In the meantime I will be happily settling in at home. Having a Great, normal, calm routine with DD and DSS when he is there. Fun projects, new friends, new church, and who knows what else?!
Of course, all with my Diva shades one! Ha!
You're probably right Mimi... cause that was one thing Bugs was VERY good at with DRAC <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Silly girl! You still get to DO things! Just not for Drac.
Plan A -- do things for Drac that meet his EN's.
Plan B -- do things for Bugs that meet her EN's.
Lexxx,
I have to tell you I struggle with that. Having my Mom as an example, God Bless her, she always put the needs of others First and herself always last.
I realize now how that can be a bad thing when it goes too far. I kept stuffing down my needs instead of acknowledging them, figuring out what they were, how I needed them to be met, and did not communicate them to Drac. Instead I grew angry, frustrated and resentful. My Taker was there, I just didn't know how to manage her in my M.
I am working on that still. So, for tonight, I will clean up DD's room, pack some stuff, and them treat myself to a nice long relaxing bubble bath with candles, music, and a glass of wine. No kids tonight!I figure I can use up those points from yesterday on a nice bottle of wine!
Speaking of points, this should count for a few. Last night, when I realized I no longer have long distance on the phone, I realized at the same time that DD could not call Drac!! His only phone is a cell and it is Long Distance!
At first, I considered not having her call. HE shut down the long distance!! As much as I would have liked to have done that, I still had her call from my cell. WHY? Because not having her call would indicate he was getting to me in some way. It would have been acknowledging him and his bullchip actions. Not gonna do it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I disagree.
Having her NOT call is a direct consequence of his very own actions.
and what happened to getting her a cell phone?
what were your Plan B instructions on communicating with DD?
Lexxx,
I was going to reply to you and then circunstances changed.
The phone is now turned completely OFF. I only learned of this when my sister tried to call and got the message that this is not a working number!
What if I need to call 911?? What of his daughter needs an ambulance!
I am so MAD! So ANGRY, disapppinted and hurt! Even though I have tried to expect the worst. This is going too far!
Please, someone tell me something to help me gain control of myself!
No using your cell phone to call him. You're not to enable any of his emotional needs, including his need to be a father. He cut his own daughter from contacting him. Let him fall. All the way.
He's really digging hard to get your attention and reaction and OUT OF PLAN B into his plan again.
Let your attorney know so that child support and visitation can be adjusted to even less favorable conditions for him. Endangering his child is a biggie.
Hi Bugs,
I have never really posted to you but have followed your story. Just remember he is upping the ante now. He wants to get a reaction out of you. Don't give into the urge. You have a cell phone if you need to make any calls right? I know it sucks, that he has done this but try to remain calm and rational even in the face of the storm. You can do it. He is hoping you will get emotional and come out of your Plan B. Stand firm.
Kayla & Robertswife,
Thanks. I know that those are the answers but gosh darn it, I am so mad and emotional right now!
He Can still press my buttons! Darn him! I REFUSE to break the darkness of plan B! I am saying that to myself more than anyone!!
I was thinking of sending a distribtion email tomorrow at work, letting everyone know that my home number has been disconnected by my estranged husband. The deal with that is that we are 'co-workers'.
Ugh!! What is left here of his that I can go break??
lol....there u go....breaking stuff... good stress reliever...let ur A know first thing tomorrow Bugs...let her deal with it...call a gf and have a good vent session...Drac cant stand he has no control of the situation so prepare urself for more .....
Unfortunately, you can't expose this without letting him know he got you. There has to be a more stealthy way to shame him. Let your attorney handle it. She'll figure something out - and present it to the judge. Shame on him. Let it be someone else delivering it.
Gabie & Kayla,
I already emailed my A. I owed her a reply about When we were going to tell Drac about the move.
I am letting her deal with this.
He will not get a reaction, even 3rd party from me. I am gathering myself together. I will 'expose' his latest dirty trick, but only in a factual way.
Have vented here and with a gf. Feeling a bit better. Off to take that bubble bath I promised myself!
Can't thank you enough for being here for me tonight!! Bless you!
Have a relaxing bubblebath Bugs....get a good nights sleep....ur always in my prayers....God Bless You
I will 'expose' his latest dirty trick, but only in a factual way.
what do you mean by this?
Bugs --
I'm in awe of your ability to control yourself!
It is really a talent and skill.
Because his antics are designed to get a reaction out of you.
Let your attorney deal with this. What he has done is LOUSY ROTTEN and SCUMMY. You offered to take over these bills, have documentation to that affect, and he shut them off without notifying you - thereby harming DD.
He should be ashamed of himself.
Ok, am a bit more relaxed after a nice bath.
Mimi, What I meant about exposing factually, was I can send an email to my 'major' contacts in the company that says something to the effect of 'pls do not contact me via my home phone number, as my estranged husband has cancelled this service without my knowledge'.
Lexxx,
I do not feel very in control of myself, but am trying hard! Am trying to let this go when I really want to kick him in the family 'jewels'
Bugs, seems like I remember that even if you have no phone service you can still dial 911.
I really wouldn't put the bit about "estranged husband" in there...that has the potential of getting back to him and giving him the satisfaction of knowing that he got to you (because it seems like a "dig" at him). I would just simply say that the service was cancelled without your knowledge or permission.
(((Bugs)))
Just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you. He's showing his true WH colors (what an [censored]).
Hang in there honey.
Still
I would just simply say that the service was cancelled without your knowledge or permission.
Yep. I agree with Fiat. Yep, you do not want him to know that he has gotten to you.
Also, YOU want to leave the option open for RECOVERY. Yes, he definitely should be ASHAMED but not SHAMED.
I agree with Mimi and Fiat. If you're graceful about it, he will probably feel ashamed. If you try and shame him, he'll just try and justify his actions.
I wouldn't even include the last piece...
Would simply write, "My number will be changing soon, and in the meantime my old number is not working. I'll let you know when the new number is available."
If WH gets wind you aren't happy, or that his latest antics bothered you, ruffled you, he will know he got to you, and his antics may get worse...
Morning Bugs, LMAO...I see that you are dealing with some of the same kind of stuff that I am...
Sweetie, I know it's frustrating and hard to keep your wit about you but you are doing a great job!
Soon enough, like you said, life will calm down...being dark really helps get a good picture of who they really are huh?
Such a shame!!!
((((BUGS))))
Thanks everyone for helping me through the emotional blip last night.
After a nice bath, a couple glasses (ok 4 glasses) of wine, an ENTIRE box of Girl Scout cookies (Samoas!), and some rest, I feel much better this morning. I am proud of the fact that even after 4 glasses of wine, I did not give in to the urge to call him!
While I like and appreciate some of the great suggestions above, I have decided that the Ultimate Darkness is the ONLY way to proceed today. I am not going to send out any notice or email in reference to my phone being shut off. A few select people at work know about it, so I am certain that it will eventually get out and around without my having to do anything. My conversation with the select few has not been my expressing outrage, but I kept it in a tone of amazement, even joking around about it. i just commented that I sure don't understand why he would find it necessary to do this. I am letting it go at that.
Now, I had written this paragraph above when the greatest thing happened. Drac's boss came walking into my office. We chatted about some work stuff. Turns out he's going to see a customer along with one of the guys in this office. Just so happens that this is one of the guys who knows about the phone and satellite being shut off. I KNOW he'll share that tidbit with the boss. I've known the boss for quite some time (BTW- he's not MY boss). Knowing him, he will EVENTUALLY get around to mentioning it to Drac.
I am just sitting here laughing out loud at the wonderful things God does when I really let go of something like this. I was on my knees last night telling Him I needed help in letting go and letting HIM work His Plan in His Way and in His Time. I know this is a seemingly small thing, but for me, it affirms that this is the ONLY way for me to deal with everything in my life.
I did email my attorney to let her know about it. At this point, it's so close to my move that I really don't care. It just gives me one more fact in my arsenal for court. Like Rin's POWS, I am going to let him dig his own hole.
Now, unfortunately, there was a Drac Sighting this morning. I was driving to work and he passed me going the other way with DSS in the car. I thought at first that maybe he was just taking him to the sitter and that he had MOVED, as this would not be a normal place for him to be at that time of the morning. Turns out, he had taken DSS to try to register him for school. He didn't realize that registration is from 1pm to 7pm. Apparently he's coming back to pick him up at 1pm from the sitter to take him to register. THAT is also really silly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why not do it after work? Now he's driving 1 hour to work, 1 hour back to get DSS, and then another hour BACK to work. Oh what was I thinking?? There CAN'T be any infringement on HO night by spending time with and taking care of his son!!
I am GLAD to know that DSS will be going to school there and that for now, he'll be living close to family, including FIL at least for a while. I think it is good for him to have some type of consistency in his life, what little there can be. We know Drac will be continuing on the ho focus, so DSS will be dumped off. At least it will be with family.
hey,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Only 23 hours to the closing!!! WHOO HOOO!!!!
I agree with your totaly darkness plan and God provided.
Amazing!
Grace and Dignity -- best way to travel the high road!
WTG Bugs!
Now -- get DD a cell phone.
Drac needs to never dial your number, or text your phone.
Its a violation of Plan B. When you use it to contact him, it sends a message to him that you've loosened up that method of communication and now he can call DD on your phone. Any time he wants -- and he will.
So nip that in the bud, girl. You don't need the trigger of seeing his number on your phone.
While I like and appreciate some of the great suggestions above, I have decided that the Ultimate Darkness is the ONLY way to proceed today. I am not going to send out any notice or email in reference to my phone being shut off.
WOW! This is the BEST DECISION, IMO. I thought maybe you were REQUIRED to say something about it to your colleagues so I didn't suggest this.
I am just sitting here laughing out loud at the wonderful things God does when I really let go of something like this. I was on my knees last night telling Him I needed help in letting go and letting HIM work His Plan in His Way and in His Time. I know this is a seemingly small thing, but for me, it affirms that this is the ONLY way for me to deal with everything in my life.
EXACTLY! You are speaking of
HAVING FAITH... which is how I also lead my life, Bugs.
hey,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Only 23 hours to the closing!!! WHOO HOOO!!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Lexxx & Mimi,
How are my fellow Goddesses today?
Lexxx, yes. Cell phone for DD is on my To Do list today. I HAD been using DSS's phone as The Designated contact phone. Then Drac insisted that it stay w/DSS full time. Don't even get me started on how retarded that all is!
There is no way for Drac to TM, remember, I shut off that service on my phone! Doing that probably helped trigger him in shutting off the home phone! LOL!
Mimi, I DO need to inform collegues and management of changes like this, but as I am getting a new number (hopefully today), I decided to wait and just put it through as a Change and not acknowledge Drac's action in any way.
Hmmmm, what will the ho night conversation be about? NOT anything about what Bugs has done! Of course he can always just make up a lie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />:).
I'm here! Shining, are you?
Hey Rin!
Yes, I am So Dark that I AM shining!
17 hrs 45 minutes to house closing! How could I be anything but happy?!?
ALLRIGHT YODA!!....wait, Yoda's taller. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Hey BC!
It's a Goddess thing, not Star Wars! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Besides, didn't you learn the lesson of Master Yoda? When it come to THE FORCE, size doesn't matter!
Can't wait to hear what you are going to do with THAT thought! Hehe!
Picked up the kids from the sitter.
Drac informed DD to tell me to send he cowboy hat and a 'cool' outfit for the concert he is taking her to tomorrow. I thought he would be kind enough to get her a new outfit. Ticks me off, as if I would not know to send something NICE, cool & appropriate for her. I would never to that to HER!
He apparently came back in the middle of the day and got DSS registered for school. He told DSS that he should go out for football. DSS is NOT interested in sports & never has been. When he told me what his dad said, I replied, 'that's Great, but what do YOU want?'.
He replied 'I don't know. If we want to do this I need a physical by next Thurs'. I told him to talk to his Dad about that. IF DSS REALLY wanted to do this, I would make it happen, but I know he is only considering it to make Drac happy, just like he did with baseball a few yrs ago.
Now to the BEST part. Drac tells sitter, 'well since she won't talk to me and she talks to Everyone else, including you, will you ask her if I can drop DSS off at the house to catch the school bus?'
Sitter told him she did not want to be in the middle of things. When he commented about she & I talking, she told him, 'I consider her a friend and I WILL keep talking to her '. Drac did not like that.
He also told her that I could npt register DD for school without HIM!?! What? So, I finally came out and told her DD IS registered for school and starts Wed. I will not be here for DSS to catch the bus. Drac does not want me as a full time mom, he only wants me as a sitter when it is convenient for Drac.
I told her that Drac knows the 'approved' method for contacting me about the kids. He needs to use it. Also, he will be getting a letter from my A about the move and school.
I think Drac is really liking Plan B. Going for the 'poor me, she won't talk to me even about the kids'. Everyone just looks at him like 'what? I wouldn't talk to you either!'
Well, I have been awake for an hour and finally decided just to get up, as sleep is not going to happen again this morning!
4 hours 15 minutes until the closing! I am not feeling nervous, just have so much 'stuff' in my head that I can't sleep.
Am going to go ahead and shower, get ready. Need to paint my toe nails. Then am going to go ahead and pack up the computer and take it to my parent's house today.
After closing, will go to the water dept to take care of water, sewer & trash service. Then, Mom & I are going to pick up a wicker table & chairs she found on clearance for my screened in porch!
Hope to get a nap in this afternoon - am going to the concert myself tonight with a friend. Hope I do not run into Drac & DD there. Would love to see her having a good time, but don't want to see him!
BUGS,
I love the last sentence about how you won't talk to him, but will talk to everyone else and when he makes that statement to others they just look at him like "what do you expect, you alien". LOL I have no idea what Drac looks like, but I just invision the typical WS with that stupid look of amazement on his face.
WS are soooo clueless. "How could me leaving my wife, destroying my family, carrying on with the HO, making selffish demands, thinking only of my own happiness.....just how could that lead to Bugs not wanting to talk to me, not wanting to be my friend, not wanting to give me her blessing? Oh, I just don't understand her".
POOR OBLIVIOUS DRAC!!!! IDIOT THINKING !!!
Questions Alien Drac will ask himself:
"What do you mean she's already registered?"
"What do you mean you won't be there when I drop DSS off to catch the bus?"
"What do you mean you're moving on with your life without even considering me?"
"You mean you won't be at my beck and call?"
It's all about you, DD, and what you can do for DSS, now. The Alien Drac is on his own. Best of luck with the closing.
Jaded,
You described his look and attitude right now perfectly!
Yes, he is clueless right now. Hope the darkness will eventually give him the opportinity reaquaint himself with reality!
2 hrs to closing!
Bugs:
You are getting so strong. Your faith is getting you there. The more we trust in God the more he helps us.
I heard a sermon today, and in it it said that we can say the prayer to accept Jesus, but you are not truly saved until you call out and trust in the Lord with all your heart.
I swear my eyes were opened, and I was thanking God. Is this why I feel so great now, even though my life is upside down and I'm clinging to the handles of the ride holding on?
We have to remember it's not our battle with our husbands, it's Gods. We have to make sure we don't do it our way, but His way. We are to step back and watch.
Guess that is a major part of your Plan B. It is now God's time for HIM to work in your husband. Step back, and watch God mold him out of the clay. He will have to pound him some, which I think we all would love to watch.... But God will only bring us the best, and right now they are not the best for us.
With that said, I'd give you scripture for the day, but I'm tired. We had major storms here in PA last night. I took 8 inches of water in the basement. What's funny is I just said the day before to my friend, I should put my husband's collectables in the basement incase I would ever get flooded. I was only teasing, but I got flooded. Was out til Midnight last night digging the ditch to divert the water away from my house. THen til 3 am working in the basement. I am doing laundry now, because all my nicely folded clothes that I didn't carry upstairs got soaked. I only have maybe 3 more loads, but work calls.
I did take time from the basement for the sermon, and now to pray. God will get us all through this.
One thing I did realize...The vows we said, til death due us part....death did seperate us....
Romans 8:
6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Our husbands are spiritually dead. If for some chance God has something greater for us, and he shows us, we should not be upset. We would not want Satan coming to us, tempting us and taking over our lives. THANK God we LIVE !!! I now have peace knowing this, I can still pray for my husband, but I know now, that by us trying to communicate with the WS we communicate with Satan. We don't want to join lives with Satan. We want to wait til our husbands are re-aquainted with the Lord, and our husbands are returned to the good side.
Dance for Joy, Shout for Joy and Praise God. We Live and We know that we will inherit the Kingdom of heaven. We have nothing to worry about. Our strife takes our focus off of the Lord, So let's all remember the first step is to turn to God, then turn to each other for help.
God bless you today, tomorrow and for the rest of our eternity.
Bugs:
Your sitter said it best: "she did not want to be in the middle of things"
Smile to the sitter and ask her "how was DD today? Let's not talk about Drac."
Drac is Drac. You need to cut yourself off from that avenue of info as well.
It's amusing to listen, and know more about him, but, that just makes your journey longer.
As for football for DSS?
Whether Drac made "Him sign up or not" Your role is support. DSS has been and never has been interested in sports? That can change.
My DS went out for the football team this year, just announced it at the dinner table one night. Blew us both away.
So, support him. As much as you can. Do not make it a power struggle. The only one who will lose is DSS. And you are the only one who is looking out for him. But you need to show DSS support on this one. No more "What do you want to do?" questions. Tell him that you will help him succeed
no matter which choice he makes. Big difference.
Does that sound harsh? Yes it is.
But DSS is the one in the middle of the power struggle. Remember that.
Enjoy your new house.
LG
Jaded,
I hope he asks those questions, but I am going to TRY nit ti give it too much thought.
INeed,
Thanks as always for the fantastic spiritual support. Sorry to hear about your flood! You sound pretty upbeat, though, for having no sleep and wet clothes!
Have a great day!
LG,
If DSS wants to play ball, I will most certainly support him! I have talked to him before about this, and he has told me several times he is not interested. Should he change his mind, you know I will do whatever I can to support him!
I left him a note this am. I let him get up on his own and walk across the field to the sitter's. I made sure to sign the note Love, MOM. Want him to know and see I think of myselg that way!
Re: Drac info from the sitter, all that ends after Tues. Just this am I said to her, let's not even bother talking about him! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for the support and well wishes everyone!
1 hour to close!
Congrats on the house. When I went to the closing on my house (first one ever owned) I wept with joy. Finally, I owned a home. It was so exciting. I know you're excited too.
When you get moved in, go through the house and pray a blessing on each room. Pray for a hedge of protection around your home and you and your kids. Can't hurt.
I'm thrilled for you. What fun!
Good news - closing went fine and the sale is complete! We take posession Mon!
Bad News - HORRIBLE letter from Drac's A
A comment I made to my A was misinterpreted and now is being blown way up. I asked her if I could ADD a lock to the house becuase I feel unsafe? This would keep Drac out til I move. She put in a letter that I fear for my personal safety. It has been construed that I am afraid of Drac, which to NOT at all the case.
I informed her to FIX that asap!
However, his letter was accusatory, nasty, and sarcastic on a ton of other things.
He accuses me of dropping off DSS when no one was home. When I dropped him last Sun, all of FIL's cars were there. I did not go in. I also know that Drac arrived home 3 min later, as I almost passed him!
They totally missed the point about not NOTIFYING me about shutting off the phone. Saying it was OK because I have 2 cell phones.
Lots of other stuff I do not yet have a copy of the letter. Doesn't matter I guess. It is all BS!! Obviously he is in BIG time hate Bugs mode!
WHY is he being so nasty and mean?? I HATE this!!
WHY is he doing this??
Oh, he DEMANDS to know about DD's school enrollment saying she is not enrolled anywhere as we BOTH have to enroll her. He already agreed to my move and Knows where I planned to enroll her. As I just TODAY signed my rental agreement, nothing was confirmed until TODAY. A$$!
Talked to DD before and after the concert. She did not sound happy. I am concerned. I think Drac had her lying again. I will find out Sun when she comes hom. She always tells me. Poor baby!
I did have a good time at the concert. Glad I did not run into them!
So what is up with all this spiteful, hateful nasty BS from Drac? Why now? He could have settled this a month ago!
It's more important for him to gain RESPECT of you, Bugs..to know that he can't push you around..to know that you will not accept THE TRIANGLE.
I still say that's what it is. He definitely wants HIS CAKE. He wants you to be HIS FRIEND, TO COPARENT WITH..He wants it to be ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY. He wants you to ACCEPT this situation...THE BRADY BUNCH MYTH...
Stand firm. Even without reconciliation, it will be best for you in the long run to maintain your SELF-RESPECT and PERSONAL POWER...that it is NOT OK with you for your H to leave you for another woman and to place your children in the midst of such IMMORALITY.
Part of it, though, is the ATTORNEYS. My H went to an ATTORNEY at one point who ENABLED HIS ANGER and he cut off DIRECT DEPOSIT of his check at the attorney's suggestion. I also went to an attorney who was encouraging me to sue my H...ATTORNEYS DO DIVORCE AND CONFLICT...
So just get it FIXED..Be ASSERTIVE with your ATTORNEY..speak your own truths to EVERYBODY..what a valuable LIFE LESSON this has been for me and I hope for you, too..learning to do just that...
PERSONAL POWER!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
(((Bugs)),
I think it will be easier for you once you are in your new home. The chances of running into Drac will become even less. And with your very dark plan B it will be better for you.
At times I wish WH would move far away so I wouldn't have to see him. Although we live in a small town and I rarely run into him. And MOW lives right down the street and I have only seen her a couple of times in the distance. The only times I see WH is when he comes to my house. That will change once the kids start school and sports start up again.
Mimi is right attorney's thrive on conflict... that's their job. But I feel for you because it does hurt to think that we are "hated" by the person we love and committed ourselves too. He has to make himself "hate" you so he doesn't feel the guilt of what he is doing. And I do believe they feel guilt but will not show it to anyone because that would make them see that what they are doing is soooo very wrong.
You are doing great and are growing so much. You have so much to be proud of the way you have handeled things.
Still
Bugs:
Mimi's got it, once again.
Drac is pissed because your desire for another lock on your door was streached to fearing for your personal safety....
Attorneys do that.
Have your attorney correct the filing, and go forward, bring no further attention to it.
Oh, BTW, have you checked your lightbulbs? You should have a reason to fear DRAC.
WHY is DRAC doing these things?
To control, intimidate, and anger Bugs.
He LOOKS like he cares...wanting to be invaolved with DD school enrollment. But he really doesn't care. He just wants to look good.
Ignore it.
DSS is 12. He can be in the house alone at that age. Heck, he can even babysit others at that age.
It was DRAC's failure to be at FIL's HOME at the times that that he agreed to, not YOURS.
You did not send DSS into a CRACK house, you sent him into his grandfather's house.
Be assertive, as MIMI states, but you do not have to do anything else than that.
DRAC will bring up EVERY LITTLE THING you do worng (from his POV) from now until the D is final.
WHY?
Because it HAS to be YOUR FAULT. It doesn't work as well, if it is HIS FAULT.
You could list all his ERRORS in the same way.
His NOT being at FIL's house while DSS and DD are there overnight.
NOT consulting you when registering DSS for school.
His inability to clothe the children, and how YOU need to deliver clean clothes.
Turning OFF your phone service. Not just changing the billing address.
Anything else you would like to add?
But why would you do that?
See how pointless it is for Drac?
But he has to make it YOUR FAULT. Changes the perspective doesn't it?
Sorry about the rant the other day about DSS and sports. Sort of touched a nerve for me. One of those area's that Flamingo and I have to have some discussion about. And my kid likes sports. Not really DSS deal, I know, but I sort of ranted a little to much.
Oh, and we have pool. If you need any advice on how to keep the greenie's away, just give me a shout out. It's been a REAL learning curve in the past two years.
(((BUGS)))
LG
LG,
Don't mean to TJ.
How do you keep the greenie away from pools. The last 2 years my pool hasn't been clear. One day last year while we were camping and supposedly WH went skinny dipping (hope Ho wasn't with him but I don't know).
This year I haven't been able to get it clear at all. Just got back inside from brushing the algae off the sides. I'm ready to drain it and scrub it down and refill it and start fresh.
Still
Still:
T/J:
Shock the heck out of the pool. Algeacide included. Double or triple the recommended amount. (this will restrict your use of the pool for a short time, however)
Backwash the filter. Make sure the return from the filter is coming out with a strong flow. I mean, it should be shooting out three-four feet into the pool, not just 4-8 inches.
Shock the pool again.
Also, test the aciditity of the pool. Many of the test strips indicate that there is problem with PH, but they never tell you to add Acid to the pool. Why? Cuz it's dangerous....It't ACID.
However, most of my reading of the literature states that you have to get the PH right, before the pool will stabilize. And to do that, you need to add acid to the pool. And they do not recommend that. Cuz it can be dangerous. THey describe all the other things to adjust the pool, but they never really talk about adding acid.
If you have a continuing problem? Go to your local pool store, one that tests your pool water sample, and they will usually tell you what you have to do. They can give you a clean quart container to take the sample to them as well. If you do this first, it can provide much help in what to do next. It proved invaluable the first year we had the pool.
I opened our pool this year myself. Closed it last year, as well. But the filter clogged right at closing (the lines from the pool to the filter filled with leaves....) and there were a tree full of leaves in the bottom of the pool when I put the cover on.
It was the most beautiful emerald green when I opened the pool this year. I cleaned the blockage in the line, vaccumed up the leaves, and Backwashed the filter three times in a week, Shocked it, Shoocked it again, and now the pool looks terrific.
But last spring, someone else opened it, (that's why I did it this year) and it stayed cloudly for a while. We were just using the rocommended amounts of shock, and clorine tabs. Then we bombed it with shock and algaecide, and it cleared up in a week. We als had to add acid if I remember right, as well. Haven't had to add any acid this year. It is well balanced now. We got back from ten days of vacation, and the pool just needed to be backwashed, and shocked and it was ready to go.
T/J over, or time for a Pool Owners Thread?
LG
LG,
Thanks for the info. I have been dumping shock like you wold not believe. I never thought of alcicide....I must have some of that in the garage. I'm bringing a sample of the water this morning and hopefully they can help. I think I also have acid to add if needed.
Stupid question.... I have taken out the filter and hosed it down a couple of times. Really gross. Last time yesterday morning. But how do you backwash the filter. I noticed it had algae in it also... If it's an inground pool does that make a difference.
Maybe a thread on pool maintenance could be done.
By the way my pool is also emerald green.... like the color just not in my pool
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Still
Still:
Is your Pool Emerald green in water color?
EEEK!
Or is that what color the liner is?
What type of filter do you have?
A sand (DE) filter, or a paper type?
A sand filter can get backwashed. This removes the dirty things and the old sand (DE) from the fiter. And then you re-add the DE so that the filter collects the dirty things.
Our pool is inground as well. How old is yours?
And if you have algae in the filter, you are in a world of hurt!
Take the sample to the pool company and have them test it.
If you have been shocking it, then something else is out of balance. And your filter being clogged with algae doesn't help.
Is the filter a paper filter or a basket type?
You can clean a basket out, but the sand filter is never cleaned in that case. A paper filter, may be sprayed out, but you may need a new one, as they can become so old that they no longer collect the smaller particles and they just return to the pool.
Are you getting all this BUGS? Something new to learn...
LG
Wow! I need to see if I can get caught up here!
Meggy,
I LOVE the idea of blessing each room in the house! This is something the kids and I can do together.
Mimi,
I definately want to get that miscommunication fixed. I have worked to hard to keep to the HIGH road to let something appear to change that.
You are right, it is very much the Attorneys that contribut to so much of the strife. This is what they do, so I will allow my A to handle it. However, I will be specifically instructing her on the point by point response so that it is Clear what my intentions are, including the fact that I am NOT backing down! Drac did this, not me and he has to face the realities of his actions.
Still,
Thanks for the input and support! You are right, and my Mom keeps saying it too, that once I am in my own house, things will calm down. Eliminate the possible sightings, having my life 'secure' from him just walking into the house any time, getting into a regular routine w/DD and school. It will be much better.
I am sitting in the middle of the kitchen with dishes everywhere trying to get packed up. As much as I am looking forward to my new house and getting out of this current sitch, I am sad.
Packing up my life all alone today is HARD. I did not and do not want this. While I am here doing this crappy work, DD, DSS, and Drac are headed to the lake. Ho, I am sure, is going, too. While I am here packing up our lives into boxes. It really HURTS.
Ok, going to stop this pity party! Darn it! I know how lucky and blessed I am despite these feelings! It 'could' be much worse!
LG,
Thanks for the input. Don't worry about the DSS/sports post. I know this an issue dear to your heart, and appreciate your honesty! Really!
You are right about Drac having to blame me. I hate that the miscommunication w/the A has given him what he thinks is 'proof' of reason to blame me. AND I hate that it has likely helped keep a spark going in Affairland. Back to battling agaist horrible Bugs!
Well, all I can do is try to repair the damage.
Thanks for all of the great pool advise! I do know a bit about them, but will take all the help I can get.
Actually, I am advertising for a pool boy. The one 'applicant' so far is not 'qualified' to wear the uniform. THONG wearing ability and suitability is REQUIRED. Hehe!
Well, as much as I hate it, I have to get back to packing!
LG,
You were right there is alot more going on in my water.
I have paper filter... that will probably have to be replaced our pool is about ten years old. Had to talk to WH and asked about backwashing... he was a little snotty like you don't have to backwash. Dealing with him makes me want to cry. I told him you know I'm doing the best I can doing something I never really did before without any help from you.
Pool people gave me 4 steps... no cholrine at all in the pool even with all the shock, So put in ph stuff. 2 hours after algicide and then another 2 things hopefully in 48 hours it will be clear.
No more TJ.... although LG I'll let you know if the emerald green is gone in 2 days.
Still
Bugs:
You have to remember they want 100% control of our lives.The minute we take even the smallest amount away from them then they get upset and immediately blame us because they can't control us.
Part of the reason they fell in love with us is because we were strong women. Then we got married and let them run us. Now that we are strong again they hate that. That is the one thing they love about us, and they don't want to like us.
You may not see it right now, but he is fighting inside as to whether to see the goddess or the HO. We were made in God's image, so we are perfect. Our light radiates from us. They don't have to admit it but they want us.
Hope you are okay packing...Gotta go throw more junk out myself from the flood. My parents came over today to make sure I put new locks on my house. Legally he is still allowed in, but because of the email he last gave me the lawyer said to change the locks asap. SO I know I can sleep better tonight anyway.
Relax and enjoy yourself. I'm going to let go and let god myself. I realized yesterday that I jeopardize my welfare and my daughters welfare when we are with him. He is being ruled by satan now, and I know that when I come away from him my attitude is different as well. I want to live the best Godly life I can try. So God will handle him..I'm practicing the reverse babble though..Between that and the parrot technique it turned my daughters attitude this weekend.
Hang in there sweetie...remember things are going to get much hotter before it gets better. You've made it through the waters, You've made it through the river and God will get you through the fire as well.
Still,
Hope the pool is starting to clear! LOL! Keep us posted!!
INeed,
Thanks for stopping by. Good luck with YOUR cleaning! I know how yucky those tasks are. Glad you are getting the peace from new locks on the house.
Today am going to call to see if old owners are out. I drove by last night and it looked like they were gone already. Dad said last night at nephew's b-day party he would help move furniture in today so DD and I have some stuff there for Tues.
My sister is giving me a couch, love seat & chair. I have new patio furniture for the screened in porch. Mom & Dad are giving me computer desk. Niece is giving me a tv stand. So, for our "temporary" before move stay, we'll not be in a completely empty house.
DD did not call until LATE last night. I am pissed at Drac, as he waited until they had JUST arrived at McDonald's playland and THEN gave her the phone to call. Needless to say, she didn't want to talk to me, she wanted to play. DUH!
What made me MOST upset is that she started telling me where they were and what they were doing when she said, "Hang on Mom". She was off quite a while befoe coming back on. She had to check with Drac to see if it was OK for her to tell me WHERE they were!! I have a RIGHT to know where my daughter is, especially if he is taking her OUT of TOWN! A$$!!!
But, I let it roll and spent a few hours enjoying nephew's bday party. Am looking forward to getting IN the house today, maybe then it will seem more real.
Early this am I sent my A a step by step response to Drac's A's letter and asked her to send first thing tomorrow. I stressed the importance to correcting the "personal safety" issue AND that we want to take the HIGH road,,,,,,,and not to wallow in the mud with pigs!
Am determined to hold my head HIGH when this is said and done. It's harder some days than others. Like yesterday when I was standing in the middle of my kitchen, a total mess, and I just stood there and cried. Despite all of the blessings, I still have my moments.
Hope everyone has a great day. It's going to be 102 degrees here today!!!
Well we delivered the sofa, love seat, and chair to the new house. Also the patio set for the porch.
Recv'd a quick 'how to' on the pool from the old owners.
Am back to packing.
Question -- what about pictures?? I am leaving our wedding portrait on the wall, but AM taking the album. I left some duplicates of our couples wedding shower they threw for us at work in the desk. Figure he will find them sooner or later. One in particular shows a friend of ours giving me a kiss while Drac looks on,, obviously not caring for it much!
I boxed up most of our small photos,,,I was going to make him an album when I was in Plan A, but did not. Should I put duplicates in an album and leave it here?
Have not heard from them ALL day. Glad he is sticking to the schedule he expects ME to 'honor'. I know it is for 2 reasons, to tick me off AND because the Ho is with them. He won't have her cal when they are all together. I don't get that
Hoping the HOT weather breaks before the weekend!
What was your thinking on leaving any of your WEDDING PICTURES there, particularly your PORTRAIT?
There's a chance it could be DESTROYED..even BY MISTAKE, you know by the HO...
ICK...
It's a part of YOUR LIFE..YOUR HISTORY..that you somehow TREASURE, right?
Mimi,
It is only 1 picture that I had framed. I have it, and all of the others that I am taking with me. I would leave nothing that I do not also have myself.
I planned on leaving the pictue up -- it is a Family portrait. In the thought that he would be reminded of the good, of the love, of the promise, of our family
DD came home full of stories from the lake including about the HO. Daddy says We are NOT married any more.
WTF!??
Daddy is selling the boat to his boss
Daddy is SO MAD you. Seems FIl asked DD about school and then Drac was told about the move and new school. he is TOTALLY pissed. He thinks she is starting tomorrow.
FIL came by and apologized. That he did not know thatDrac did not know. Drac told him I can't LEGALLY enroll her w/o him.
Should I send a tm letting him know he has been misinformed?
Most importantly, NOW, I would be concerned about the EFFECT of this on YOUR DAUGHTER.
He's USING her to get to you and that is EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE as far as I am concerned. It's ALL ABOUT HIM. He's not conerned about her as he needs to be. Typical NARCISSISTIC WAYWARD... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I recommend some strong-arming from your A on this one. Maybe his visitation needs to be limited or counseling needs to be ordered.
ETA: Of course, DO NOT EMAIL HIM!!
Is there some way you can insist that the HO not be present in order for the visitations to continue? Just think how crazy he must be with the HO around....
ICK...
Mimi,
I only wish I could limit the visits and Ho exposure! My state does not care. Unless they are having s*x in front of her, nothing I can do to stop it.
One more night here after tonight. Then we have our own place and own plans/schedule/routine. It will be so much better then.
You are right - it is ALL about him, but he masks it as being about DD. He KNEW we would be moving. This should come as no surprise. He jsut thinks everything should be easy breezy and done HIS way. He gave up that right some time ago.
He will just continue to twist is all around to be MY fault no matter what I do or don't do.
He apparently is willing to go as far as selling the boat to prove how horrible I am?!
Why is he making this so BAD? He could have settled a month ago. Why go through all of this?
Bugs - get her to a school counselor asap! This can be court ordered if a professional determines he is a danger to her wellbeing.
If he's not careful, he'll be consigned to supervised visitation and no Ho. Journal what she came home discussing after this trip. And just see if the state doesn't care about his behavior.
FIL asked me if we will be able to get all of my stuff in 1 trip. I told him the size truck I am getting and asked 'that should be big enough, right?'. He said he did not know
I explained to him the items I will have. I told him the items that are staying. He told me Drac thinks I am taking EVERYTHING. So typical -- yet again Drac telling everyone what he KNOWS I am going to do.
I told FIL that is getting old for me. I am the same, high road person, and an improved Bugs at the same time. Drac does not get it. FIL even said tonight that HE will be glad when it is all over with. SAD. His take is the bad Drac will continue to be Bad Drac and I should just be done with him and move on.
I am concerned over the tact Drac is taking w/financals. Worry he is now determined to find a way to stick it to me financially. We all Know these things do not always go the Right or Just way in the end.
I know, I just have to keep trusting God to work it all out in His way and time. It is Hard sometimes, but I am trying!
It is just hard now that the move is finally here. It feels like I am closing a door on Drac with little to no hope that H will knock on that door and ask to come back in!
Faith, Bugs...
You've got to have FAITH that GOD will take care of YOU.
Try to stop thinking about HIM.
It's been too much about HIM this EVENING.
Get focused again on your NEW LIFE.
FOCUS on the PRESENT.
Who knows what THE FUTURE HOLDS?
SEAL YOUR MIND against all those NEGATIVE FORCES..EVIL SPIRITS...
Talk to your DD about FOCUSING on the POSITIVE..not the ANGER..not the CONFLICT...
PRAY...GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU...
I agree with Kayla.
There's got to be SOME WAY to protect your DD..
See what your lawyer says...
If not a school counselor, take her to a private counselor so that a neutral party can monitor the situation.
This is certainly detrimental to her, IMO.
Kayla,
I am doing BOTH. I journal (mostly here ha) and I looked up the info on the school counselor today. Am taking DD by to see her school Tues. She starts on Wed. I also am making another call to DSS's school counselor. Hoping I can see him this week, too.
Mimi,
Just finished saying some prayers like this. Trying to stay positive.
It is so HARD living out my life w/o considering him, his feelingsn his reactions, his emotions. Still hoping he'll wake up!
I Know getting out of here will be the best thing
Sis and BIL went over to the house and 'cleaned' the pool for me--just an excuse to go for a swim!
BAD news - they said air conditioner is not cooling the house! Sis going by in the am to ck again. If it is not working, she is going to call heating/cooling company for me. Gotta have that working! It was 103 today and will be hot all week!
That's ok. It will all work out. God is in control! Thank goodness, because I lose my train of thought walking from one room to the next tonight!
In my state, financial responsibility begins the date the separation began-not the date separation papers were signed-but the day one spouse leaves.
That may be the case with your state too. You should ask your lawyer about any financial shenanigans Drac is pulling right now and if you will have to be responsible for his stuff.
Also, I ditto mimi and Kayla.
Hang in there-you are not letting him have his way and he is just spinning his wheels trying to figure out how to get you to get with HIS program.
Too bad he doesn't know that the program has changed.
It is so HARD living out my life w/o considering him, his feelingsn his reactions, his emotions. Still hoping he'll wake up!
I know. I completely understand...been right there in your shoes.
But, in reality, the DRAC you once knew is GONE. He does not exist.
It's hard to explain..but if and when a semblance of DRAC does return, he will have to go through much HEALING in order to be NORMAL again.
YOUR DRAC is no longer out there in the world.
That's why we are so concerned about your daughter.
((((BUGS))))
Bugs:
It tells us in God's word to strive not. We do not have to worry. God is handling it for us.
Of course he's going to be mad about the house and the move. He doesn't want you to be strong. He wants to have the upper hand. He can only think about how this is effecting him... He's in the "I" mode.
Our focus should be on God and God alone. How can God let our husbands come back if we lose focus and He can't finish molding us. He is making us complete in HIM. Then he can work on our husbands.
Just keep praying that Drac will learn to Fear the Lord. That he might get to know some christians that will open his eyes and his ears and enable him to hear the Lord's calling. That the Lord might open his eyes and heart and enable him to receive the full knowledge of Sin.
Remember that Satan is the ruler of Doubt. Many people will be sent our way making us doubt our actions and the reason for waiting. We aren't just waiting for our husbands, but we are waiting on God's will.
I myself started doubting whether I would want my WH to come home or not. I read the emails and it looks like he's a man Ho. I know that I can forgive, but it seemed drastic to me. I got anxious about it, and angry. God wouldn't want me that way, but satan sure does. It was after I read the scriptures that I realized that Sin is Sin no matter what it is. Adultery is no different than murder and is no different than swearing. After I thought about it this way, then I was able to put it behind me, and I had a greater peace come over me. Some way I believe this was a test for me and I'm passing.
It doesn't have to be hard for us, because God's blueprints are right infront of us.
Enjoy your day bugs.... Hope you get more set up for you. We have to remember our children see what's going on and they are closer to God than us. They know, and she will see right through your WH.
Bugs: Ask yourself something. If drac were to come home today, would it move you closer to, or further away from Christ ? You and I both know that answer. If he turns to Christ for help, and then repents I believe that God will lead him home. God's word tells us that he wants us equally yolked, and that Light should avoid darkness.
When I read that it made me realize I needed to step backward. Everthing in heaven is B/W Evil/Good. On earth people try to make grey. It doesn't work that way. We have to wait for God to help our husbands do a 180. Until then it will NOT work.
It is so easy for people to tell us that it may not be God's will for us to reconcile. If it were not God's will then why does the Bible say "I hate Divorce, thus sayeth the Lord." If God hates it, then he'll do his best to try to avoid it. I fully believe he keeps giving our WS chances to see he's there waiting for them.
GOD IS GREAT !!!! He is the BEST shepherd, and our WS is just one of his lost sheep. Just keep praying that Christ will bring Drac Life. And BELIEVE NO MATTER WHAT that HE IS doing it !!!!
Thanks everyone! All great stuff I needed to hear.
Am probably just reaching a bit of overload. So close to the move, such a DRASTIC change -- a good change, but a BIG change. Doing this on my own, but NOT by my choice. Drac being an even darker, mor Evil Drac. Heaing the HO stories, horseplay between Drac & the ho (even a 'it seems like she is my mom'!). OUCH!
Feeling the stress, but finding relief on my knees in prayer and in your support here. Gotta face the fact that I am now own my own. As Mimi said - even if Drac had clue, he still has a long road to travel before he'd be in any condition to retur. In the meantime, I have a life to live and kids to take care of.
God handles it all. The A handles the legal stuff and shenanigans of Drac legally & financially.
Bugs takes care of kids and Bugs. Let the Ho take care of Drac.
Bugs:
Something you said a while back has stuck with me.
You described how the mother of DSS is "out of the picture" and not involved.
And then you came along.
But, and this was the point that stuck with me, you stated that Drac had had two "serious" relationships before you came along.
That was new to your story and my understanding of Drac.
Protect your DD. With counseling, if needed, or by being a great mother.
Drac's interest in her will wane. Soon after this D is final.
Your Husband may still return to your M. But the knowledge of those 2 other R's has really stopped me short.
Drac grows tired of his women quickly.
He was younger with DSS mother, but, he grew tired of her, and he had DSS. He had to take charge of that and he did.
Then he drifted, and found you.
You provided so many things for him, that first wife didn't provide him, or the others.
But he still grew bored.
And then HO appeared. Time for a little excitement.
He will grow tired of her. And then he will attempt to return to Bugs, until someone new attracts his eye.
Those other serious R's changed the dynamic of DRAC for me.
He will always feel abandoned and put upon, and feel taken advantage of. Drac's concern about the financials in the D, is proof of that.
It's a much deeper issue for Drac. Just a basic insecurity underneath his external persona that will never change.
IF it was, it would have by now.
Will Husband return? Based on the above. No.
Is it my opinion? YES!
CAN your Husband Return? YES!
Your Plan B has been having the desired effect. HE is SO DETERMINED to break it.
Using DD, FIL, whatever means necessary.
If he wants all those things that BUGS provided, he has got to WANT THEM, enough to change his basic nature. And that's tough.
Drac KNOWS your better. He just cannot admit that. Until he does.....
He might be 65, and wondering why he ever let you get away.
Or, it could be next Thurday. When he realizes that you have MOVED ON. Someone ELSE may be Step DAD to his DD. Another woman is attemtting to be Step-Mom to his DS. And SHE doesn't measure up. And SHE doesn't understand why DRAC isn't as concerned about HER kids.
All tough to face.
I hope he does.
Enjoy your new house.
Pool help is available if you need it. Only Flamingo gets to see me in a thong...
You have come along way. You understand SO MUCH more about DRAC.
I do not mean to be depressing here. You have to have faith that you will recover your M. Otherwise, Plan A/B isn't worth the effort.
Drac was good Husband at one time. But he has a flaw. So do I. I addressed mine. Will Drac?
Your doing great. Your strong.
LG
LG,
You are very perceptive and on the mark with Drac. There ARE issues beneath the surface that Drac needs to address for long term success in ANY relationship. When he WAS seeing the IC, they were starting to get to those issues. Remember him saying he was "losing time", That was when they were on the cusp of getting to the bottom of things. Also remember it was "MY FAULT" that he quit going, combined with the IC missing appts that he quit seeing the IC.
Not to dwell on Drac, but the abandonment of him & his Dad by his Mother AND having been abused by a male friend of his Dad at a very young age, are HUGE issues that he has never truly faced or resolved. THESE things combine to drive is relationship issues. You are right, he continues to move from R to R, and will continue to do so unless he addresses these things completely.
Will he? I don't know.
As his Dad told him regarding the HO, "I am tired of all of the women, don't bring her around here." With his family having reached their limit with the different Rs he's had, you'd think he would start to catch a clue that perhaps instead of looking at the women in his life, he needs to look Inward.
Why did I think I was any different????
Knowing Drac, I do realize that the likelihood of him realizing the things you talked about and returning to work though everything is almost NIL. However, most of the recoveries I have read here, the BS thought the same thing, so I continue to allow myself a spark of hope. Right now, Drac continues to justify, use everything I do and say, the entire world at large, as excuses to justify his actions. I do not see him truly looking back, Ever, no matter how good my Plan A was and no matter how Dark I make my Plan B.
I will disagree on the point that he is going to lose interest in DD. While he has not been showing it for a while, at least not in the ways that matter most, Drac does love his kids very much. He does "need" to be with them in the way that good parents "need" to be with their kids. I don't see that bottom line ever changing. He's worked TOO hard to integrate the Ho into all of their lives, he's not going to give DD up, but will continue to include her in this R and every other R he has in the future. NOT good for DD, but unless he makes a change, it is a fact. He told DD over the weekend that Mommy and Daddy are NOT married! What kind of father says that kind of out and out lie to his child? One that RIGHT NOW is more worried about his HO than he is about his daughter. I know he views this as being RIGHT, because in his mind we are NOT married. He even said to me some time ago, "When we were married". In his mind, the day he said he wanted the D, it was done. Too bad reality is different. Too bad the rest of us live in reality.
BTW - air conditioner is OUT at the new house. Waiting for details on Home Warranty deal so I can get someone out there asap.
Feeling a bit depressed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Oh, also talked to my A this morning. She is sending letter to Drac's A, but may not be til later tonight as she has court today.
Basically, she said that "technically" Drac is right, that I can't "legally" take DD to the new house/school because the agreement is not yet signed by the court. However, by the time he could file an injunction, she will be in school and no judge would make me take her out and move her back in the middle of the school year. WORST case scenario, I'd have to go back after the school year is finished. PLUS the fact that we have it documented that he has been in agreement with this move all along, and he was aware of my intentions when he would not sign the marital waiver for me to purchase the house.
Regarding all of the other stuff, some she is going to address, some she is not, as it is as I stated, "wallowing in the mud" and we will continue to keep to the HIGH road.
We talked about lots of stuff and am feeling just a little too DOWN to rehash it all right now. She does not think that Drac is being completely honest with his A. Leaving out just enough details to keep to "his" view of things. She feels we have a good case, but are at risk with some things, like my 401K, as mine is larger than his. She is going to clarify the "personal" safety issue, which is VERY important to me and she understands that. Also, she is going to re-approach the fact that this was almost settled and see if we can't get back to that middle ground again.
I just want it to be done with. Not that I don't want my H back, I do. I just don't want this drama with DRAC anymore. I am ready for the peace of Plan B. I want to get back to being able to do the GREAT job at work I have always done. I have been feeling REALLY pretty good for a while, no big crying or depression, until Sat. Now again today, I want to just lay down and cry for hours.
I will disagree on the point that he is going to lose interest in DD. While he has not been showing it for a while, at least not in the ways that matter most, Drac does love his kids very much
But TO ME, he's already not SHOWING INTEREST in his DD..showing interest in her would mean, not abandoning her, not telling her HURTFUL THINGS..TO ME, LOVE is a VERB...
I'm saying this for you to be PROTECTIVE OF HER, Bugs..her FATHER may say that he loves her but HOW IS HE SHOWING IT??
He does "need" to be with them in the way that good parents "need" to be with their kids.
And I don't agree with this if you mean that he NEEDS her. TO ME, that's a NARCISSISTIC PARENT. IMO, parenting is ALL ABOUT THE GIVER..not the TAKER... Children NEED their parents and not vice versa...
He's worked TOO hard to integrate the Ho into all of their lives, he's not going to give DD up, but will continue to include her in this R and every other R he has in the future.
So, IMO, he's already given her up if he's chosen to INTEGRATE A HO into her life. You are acting as if the BRADY BUNCH SCENARIO that he is trying to put together WORKS. Yes, it can WORK to have a BLENDED FAMILY..but NOT in the UNHEALTHY AND IMMORAL WAY that DRAC is doing this....
I'm not picking particularly on Drac...
My H ABANDONED his WIFE AND CHILDREN, TOO..and he would agree with me..is trying to make it up to THEM...
I used that word with him...
IMO, Drac is repeating the sins of his OWN MOTHER...SO SAD...TOO BAD...
HOLD YOUR HEAD UP, CHEST HIGH, GODDESS...BE THE BEST MOTHER FOR HER THAT YOU CAN BE..BUT don't buy into DRAC'S CONCEPTION of the world...
I hope that you are telling your daughter that YOU ARE MARRIED..that her F is NOT HIMSELF RIGHT NOW..that you two can pray for him to CHANGE HIS WAYS...and for her to tell you when she is SCARED when she is with him...
Does she have HER CELLPHONE?
BTW - air conditioner is OUT at the new house. Waiting for details on Home Warranty deal so I can get someone out there asap.
Feeling a bit depressed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Could it be a little "buyer's remorse"? Wondering if you're making the right move? Going through all your "stuff" packing (which I'm sure brings up those triggers). Ask yourself WHY you're a bit depressed and then TELL yourself, that everything WILL work out. Choose today to be happy. You've got alot to be proud of Bugsy.
That's great you've got the home warranty, that should make the A/C a little easier to deal with.
BTW: Things WILL work out and small joys will come from the least expected places.
Meggy,
No, I am NOT having buyer's remorse. Just that I am 'feeling' some of the stressors and pressures of the whole sitch, down about the reality of Drac never being H again, hating the whole D battle bullsh#t, that the air is just one more thing on the list.
I JUST said to my bro on the phone 'it will all work out. It will be just fine'. I KNOW it will.
Mimi,
I don't disagree with you on all of that. Guess I was referring more the the Daddy he USED to be to her.
No, it is not the Brady Bunch and never will be. Yet I can not STOP him from TRYING to make it LOOK like that. Wish I could.
YES, absolutely I tell DD the TRUTH and that it just means that Daddy is not himself and has made a bad choice right now. We do pray for him, and all of us in this sitch. I will be setting her up w/school counselor and any add'l counceling needed.
Cell is on order.
I just got off the phone w/DSS's school counselor. He is NEW this year. The other counselor that DSS talked to last year has taken a different position.
I just gave him the abbreviated history,,,,,,,,,,,and let him know about the recent things w/DSS. Like hitting the board with a hammer until it broke, andf "feeling better" after banging his head against the headboard in his room.
He said that he can look out for him. That he will talk to the other and also check into the ability/services of a professional counselor that comes from a professional counseling company on Fridays to the school to see if she may be able to give some help/insight. He said "he is not equipped and it is not their role to give the type of "in depth" counseling that it sounds like DSS needs". But, he will do some checking and will do what he can for him.
He asked if we were coming to open house tonight. I told him I would not be and was not sure if they were. I explained that Drac thinks Drac is 'better than ever' and that any suggestion on my part to get Austin counseling has been "rebuffed", and I was hoping that if it were to come from HIM, that Drac may be more receptive.
I asked, if he COULD, feel free to call me. I want to help. I want to be involved as much as possible. DSS is and always will be my son as far as I am concerned.
Don't know what else I can do, but am glad that I was able to talk to him.
Home Warranty people do not have my house showing up as covered! UGH! Listing agent has done done her job! My agent is working on it.
Who knows, maybe we are not meant to have our first night there be tomorrow for some reason. It's God's plan either way! Maybe he's preventing a Drac issue! Who knows? God does and that is what matters.
So, am going to try to get some work done. I have stuff in the car I want to run up there this afternoon. So, gotta get a few items cleared off the list first.
Well the airconditioner needs to be completely replaced. My dad wants to handle it, so I am letting him. If we go thru the H.O. Warranty they can not even come out to look at it until tomorrow afternoon.
I called the real estate agent and told he this is unacceptable and something needs to be done about it. the unit was not working when I took posession of the house and the old owners, I am pretty sure, knew it was not working!
Am feeling a bit overwhelmed right now. Drac was sent an email telling him about DD's school. He sent an 'attorney approved' reply. Basically accusing me of not co-parenting and 'informing' me of how he intends to handle his visit on Wed. Also wants to drop off DSS at the current house before school Thurs and Fri. Am having a response sent that DSS is welcome here anytime, but he would be on his own to get out to the bus on time, as I won't be here at that time. Sitter has offered to have him there to get on the bus. Remember, Drac threw a fit that I dropped off DSS the other day when no one was home??!
Gotta do more packing. Can't wait for internet hook up at the new place so I can post from there instead of my Blackberry! Am getting thumb cramps!
Hey Bugs - sorry, haven't been keeping up as much due to my own issues I'm dealing with here lately.
So glad you got in your new house, I bet you will turn it into a mah-ve-lous home in no time!
Bugs:
Sorry about the A/C system. I hope that you can get the system repaired/replaced/reimbursed without too much trouble.
Answer to Drac via your Attorney: Re: DSS and waiting at the old house: "I do not live there, anymore. Please make arrangements on your days for him to get to school." Something to that affect.
Answer via Attorney for DD statement: "It is within the prarmeters of our earlier custody agreements". "Please adjust your schedule to conform with that." "Its your day for DD" However, Bugs, I might be missing more of the DD story. Just me being rude...
PS: Have your Attorney look at ALL the paperwork from your Closing. The prior owners had to have signed something stating that the A/C was in good shape. Have your Attorney send a letter to your RE Agent, and the Sellers RE Agent, if not the same one. Did you get a house inspection?
Enjoy swimming if nothing else....
LG
Think of it this way. At least the heat is only temporary. Thank God we won't have to feel the real heat. We will be perfect in heaven.
Sometimes I like to picture Heaven as differnt grades of hotel rooms. I think we'll have the marriott.
Took my dd to MIL today to see her friends new puppy. WH made it a point to come out side and announce he didn't know we were there. What a crock, he was standing at the door as we pulled up. Then he wanted his camera. He looked directly at me and said, Excuse me I have to get the camera. His mom and I looked at each other and laughed. For not wanting to talk to me, he sure goes out of his way to do so. I didn't say much to him. Zipped my lip and just smiled.
When I left, I was able to walk with my head held high in a goddess type fashion. Thanks to God and Bugs. You inspire me. I actually thought to myself today, what would bugs do.
Girl you have the charm and the wisdom and light for us beginners, please don't lose it.
God has been so great to me lately. I know without a doubt he's working in my husband.
For that I am grateful ! Better yet, look at how far he has brought us. We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us !!!!
Bugs:
2 Corinthians 4: 7-11:
"We have this treasure from GOD. But we are only like clay jars that hold the treasure. This shows that this great power is from GOD, not from us. We have TROUBLES all around us, but we are NOT defeated. We do not know what to do, but we do NOT give up. We are persecuted, but GOD does not leave us. We are HURT sometimes, but we are not destroyed. We carry the death of Jesus in our own bodies, so that the life of Jesus can also be seen in our bodies. We are alive, but for Jesus we are always in danger of death. This is so that the life of Jesus can be seen in our bodies that die.
It is great to know that even when we feel like it inside, we ARE NOT defeated !!
2 Corinthians 4: 16-18:
So we DO NOT GIVE UP. Our physical body is becoming older and weaker, but our spirit inside us is made new every day. We have SMALL troubles for awhile now, but they are HELPING us gain an eternal glory. That glory is much greater than the troubles. So we set our eyes not on what we see, but on what we can not see. What we see will only last a short time, but what we can not see will last forever.
I am so greatful that God is using my troubles for me to have a closer walk with him. I feel great knowing where we are heading. There is no doubt that God has a room for me and you in his mansion.
2 corinthians 5:6-9
So we always have courage. We know that while we live in this body, wa are away from the Lord. We live by what we believe, not by what we can see. So I say that we have courage. And we rally want to be away from this body and be at home with the Lord. Our only goal is to please God. We want to please him whether we live here or there.
My eyes were opened....Here I was with a goal set before me of winning my WH back. Why is that our goal ? That is God's because it is his battle not ours. As of this morning I am setting my goal for each and every day to just have a closer walk with the Lord and to know my father better.
Have a great day everyone .... I know I will....Praise God...
Wow, a small statement you said that has rung like a bell when you said your WH sometimes loses time....this is a huge thing, and may be more than just time passing by quickly. This may be a symptom of DID amnesia. Especially knowing he was an abuse vicitm... I remember meeting a lady once who experienced this type of amnesia. She said she'll "wake up" and find herself driving...she won't know to where, what day it is, or where she is. She says she gets off the next exit and tries to find her bearings as best she can...she may have been out of it for a day or only an hour. She said people will tell her they carried on conversations with her, she went about her life, sort of...but she has no recollection of it...
Bugs:
Hope to hear from you soon!
LG
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the suffering of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed." If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you...However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of
God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good."
I Peter 4:12- 14,16-19
Isn't it awsome to know that we will be overjoyed. This pain that we are suffering now will not mean a thing to us when our husbands come home. We will see the power of God's will.
Hey Bugs --
Getting settled?
I've had air conditioner problems before -- but easily rectified. My condenser froze (forgot to change my furnace filter....) Just had to let it thaw, then start the air back up. Was your AC running, just not getting cold?
Thats what happened to me.
Anyways...
School for DD?
Such a shame daddy doesn't get to see her off in the morning. Or coming home after her first big day! Consequences suck huh? hehehehe
But you get to enjoy every minute of it!
When your spouse says so many hurtful things about you and your marriage or they have filed for divorce and you know there is another person, what are you to do? Just stand!
When you are facing huge mountains of circumstances in your entire life, what are you to do? Just stand!
If the fire that you are in is unbearable, remember Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. There was a son of God standing right there in the fire protecting them. Jesus is standing right next to you protecting you from all harm. What are you do? Just stand!
"Because he loves me," says he LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name." Psalm 91:14
When you feel depressed or discouraged and you are just about ready to give up, what are you to do? Call on your Lord Jesus Christ. Just stand!
You children are wanting their Mommy or Daddy to be home as a family. You are becoming weary because of all the responsibilities that you are having to do. Your spouse will not spend regular time with the children and they are hurting, angry and now rebelling. What are you to do? Just stand!
You are overwhelmed due to your financial responsibilities,
employment problems, and now you even need to sell your house. What are you to do? Just stand!
Will you stand and pray for the salvation of your coworkers at work? Will you stand up and pray for all the marriages at work and at church?
What does "just stand" mean? It means that every time you have a problem or a crisis in your life, you will fall down on your knees to make sure that you remember that you have humbled yourself and asked the Lord for His divine intervention in helping you through this specific crisis. If you do not get an answer, then you keep kneeling, knocking, asking and waiting for the Lord to tell you the
next directions for rebuilding your marriage on the solid rock of Jesus Christ.
In the meantime you need to "stand up for Jesus." Yes, you need to say: "Lord, I have enlisted to join God's Army forever. I choose to fight for God's best in my church, city and state. I will pray for all hurting marriages to be reconciled. I am going to stand up for marriage restoration."
Will you start standing up for what God hates? Will you stand up against divorce? Will you share with other people that there is an alternative, another way if a spouse wants a divorce or has fallen into sin? You can stand with our Lord Jesus and fight the enemy for the healing and restoration of all marriages. What are you to do now? Just stand!
"Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand." Ephesians 6:13
Hi Everyone!
Missed you all and have a lot of catching up to do. But, I DO have highspeed internet now, so it should not take too long now!!! Better than the Blackberry for sure!
Real quick update. Obviously, am in the house, but not MOVED yet. That will be this weekend.
Air conditioner had to be totally replaced. Am fighting about that with the real estate agents now. AGAIN, very blessed to have my parents. Dad arranged getting a company out here who had it installed before we moved in Tues, which with our weather is a MIRACLE.
Drac has been sending "attorney approved, covering his a$$" emails about DD and DSS. Will have to fill you in on that later. He picked up DD from school yesterday, as Wed is his regular night. He did have her CALL me right after and give me an update on her first day, which SHOCKED me! Of course, I did have her call yeseterday before school to talk to him. I thought it was only right.
He was to have her home at 8:30 (which is too late in my mind, but we'll work that out later). He did not get her home til 8:55, but had left a message that they were running late,, SURPRISE. He hasn't done that in MONTHS. He took her to see the Bratz movie,,, apparently just the 2 of them?? I was surprised! No HO???
When he brought her home, he got her out of the car, gave her a kiss 1/2 way in the yard, did not come up to the door at all.
My A sent me a message last night, they have made another "offer" to sell the marital residence and the boat and split the proceeds. I am not sure what I am going to do there,,,,,,,,,,,,he's just trying to sell the boat at a low prices to his boss and then buy it back and then "sell" the house to his dad and keep it in the family. Am thinking of agreeing,,,,, but ONLY if I get the total original amount I asked for. If the sale of these things does not yield that price, then I get to keep the proceeds from the sale of our other property to make up the difference.
Will talk to my A and see what she thinks.
Mom is coming in a few minutes to help clean here and be ready for the move Sat.
Thanks for checking in on me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Stay tuned! I'll be back later!
As long as the total amount comes to what you want, who cares what little games he plays with the "stuff."?
You know the true value of these items, right? Including the motorcycle that was bought with marital assets?
So you know what you should be getting. As long as you get it -- who cares how he schemes. Its nothing for him to feel good about...
So obviously he knows where your new house is. Make sure the light bulbs are tight. Do you have a security system?
I'm sure he's dying for a peek inside...(ick)
Have you gotten in the pool yet?
Have fun cleaning!
Hey Lexxx!
I was wondering where you had gotten off to! I have been so busy with the move. We are here, but not moving furniture and most of the boxes til Sat. We have living room furniture and patio furniture for the porch, so we've gotten by for these last 2 days just fine. Heading out after DD gets out of school to the old place to finish packing up and get ready for the am! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
So, on with the updates. Very much like PBS, I've had to communicate with Drac on kid stuff. We did communicate via email on that matter. .
Last Sunday, he found out from FIL that I was moving and DD would be starting school this week. He was huffing and puffing all over the place about it. How I was "taking his daughter away!" WTF? He KNEW this was coming! DUH DRAC! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Monday, per my A, I confirmed just the facts of the move and her school in an email. I copied my A on it. He replied in an email that was clearly written by his A, that he "agreed" that this was ok, but the "per the parenting plan" he should be consulted in advance, yada yada, yada. He further informed me that HE contacted the school and gave them his CORRECT information. Further that he would be picking her up from school on WED for HIS visitation night and returning her to my house at 8:30 pm. (I think this is too late for a 1st grader on a school night, but will be addressing that later) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
He then informed me he was keeping DSS in the same school and planned to drop him off at the old house prior to school and that DSS would get off the bus there. We did this last year, but I was there to be sure DSS got on the bus on time. I replied that I would not be there at the time he would need to get on the bus and that the sitter had offered to have DSS at her house to be sure he got on the bus.
Well, Drac apparently doesn't like that. He said he'd drop off DSS and the call him to be sure he gets out to the bus. He said "Sitter can do nothing for DSS that I can't do over the phone" Well,,,, isn't that interesting? DSS will be left ALONE?? Didn't I just get in trouble for dropping him off at FIL's when supposedly no one was home??? Whatever! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What's going to happen the first time Drac forgets to call and DSS misses the bus? There is no one close to take him and he'll get mad at DSS. Unfortunately, nothing I can do about that.
Drac then also emailed me about if I were getting DSS for the weekend. It was even nice about if I had any ideas how I could continue to see him during the week that Drac would "be willing to listen:. I just replied, "Weekends remain the same"
Drac picked up DD after school on her first day. I had my mom go by the school to make sure he was there on time. He left a message later that said they'd be 10-15 minutes late? My sis and BIL were here with me, just in case Drac decided he wanted to come in. He finally got her home at almost 9 pm!!! UGH! He walked her 1/2 way up the yard, gave her a kiss and then turned around and walked back to his car. THANK GOD the Ho was not with them. She didn't go with them that evening at all.
He now knows that this is the SAME house I intended to buy! Wonder what he thinks about that?
My A emailed me that Drac's last offer was to sell the marital property and the boat and split the proceeds. I was talking to her about it yesterday, and she told me that she had a message from Drac's A that they had something else that they wanted us to consider, but she hadn't talked to him yet.
She emailed yesterday afternoon with the offer. Which is virtually the SAME original offer I made, with just a slight amount of change. WHAT????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
SOMETHING HAS HAPPENED. I just don't know what. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I did hear that the HO is unemployed right now. Also in the discussion with the A, Drac's credit card debt has increased SUBSTANTIALLY AGAIN! I guess he's supporting the HO???
So, I think I am going to take the offer. We go back to court on Mon., so it may be all finished then??
AM not sure how I feel about that. Will have time alone today for a while to think about things.
I need to get DD's clothes ready for school. Will post in a bit about DSS's first day of school,,,, I talked to him before and he called me after,,,,,
Ok, I got DD on the bus and took care of some work stuff,,,,even though I am on vacation!
On Tues, when I picked up DD to bring her to the new house, I gave DSS a letter. It just told him how much I love him, how proud I am of him, how much he has ALWAYS meant to me and how I am always here for him no matter what. I told him I am always just a phone call away.
Yesterday was DSS's first day of school. I called and talked to him before school and told him I'd talk to him after to see how his day went.
HE called me immediately after he got off the bus and was VERY upset. Seems he talked to other "students" who were going out for football,,,,they all had equipment, but DSS did not. They convinced him he could not try out without the equipment, so he got on the bus and went home vs going to try outs. He was SO UPSET. I told him to first try to calm down. Asked if he talked to the COACH, which he did not.
I told him, it's ok. Dad can call and talk to the coach, it can be worked out. He said, "I KNOW Dad's REALLY mad at me. HE really wanted me to play football,,and I did, too. But Dad is going to think I did this on purpose to get out of it." I tried to reassure him,,,,,it was hard as I believe he was probably right. I told him again that Dad could work it out and asked if he'd called his Dad. He said he did. I asked what Drac said,,,,,,,,,,,
He said "We'll talk about it tonight".
What???? CLEARLY DSS was VERY upset and that was the best he could do??? UGHH!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Well, I guess Drac did work it out because last night he was talking to DD and starting sending messages thru her, which pi$$ed me off! Asked what time I was picking up DSS today and to tell me that DSS has football practice after school.
I am going to send message to Drac -
"Please advise on DSS's schedule" Simple and to the point???
I am GLAD that he worked it out, because DSS wants to do this, if for no other reason than to please his dad. I am concerned,,,, what if he doesn't make the team? I have serious doubts if he will. Poor kid doesn't really even have a basic understanding of the rules of the game. Drac never took the time to teach him. Everything he knows about football is what he has learned from watching the games with me. I just don't want to see this turn into something that further discourages him socially.
Not much I can do but hope & pray for the best!
Good job, Bugsy. You are a good mom, and DSS knows that.
WOW, you're world is really busy...I hope that it settles down for you soon! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
It's real tough for DSS to TALK TO THE COACHES. (but, if he had, and then Missed the BUS, he would have had trouble as well, tough spot for him)
My son doesn't, but he will listen all day to the other players, who may not have a clue, really.
So, from that point of view, your DSS reacted about the same. As DSS gains confidence, he WILL talk to the coaches more. My son has been practicing in t-shirts and shorts. No equipment at all.
As for the sudden change in Drac's D Plan, that moves closer to yours?
He wants to wrap it up.
HE's not going to get a better deal, and he knows/knew that.
Plus, the delays cost money. Attorneys cost money. HO's foot is tapping....
Got any monkey wrenchs for the works? Or do you even want to slow it down?
I guess you said you were going to think about that today. But that is why he moved close to your offer. To get it Over.
He can even tell HO, he doesn't have that much $$ because BUGS was so TOUGH on him. BOO-HOO.
Have you been able to use the pool? Went home at lunchtime yesterday and the Polaris had broken its line and it was squirting water everywhere.... Then I went to add water to the pool, and forgot to turn it off, anf this morning it was swamped.... Darned if your do, darned if you don't.... Darling son has been tasked with cannonballing into the pool this evening to reduce the amount of water in it in the most fun way.
Caught in the limbo right now between houses, Huh? Partially in the new house, and not out of the old house? Hope you have good weather tommorrow for the actual move.
Otherwise, you seem in very good spirts. Keep it up.
LG
Hi Bugs,
I went through the same thing as DSS back in my Jurassic Football days. Guys tried to scare me off because I had no equipment and they talked a big line of crap. I went anyway and guess what; a lot of guys did not have equipment yet and the ones who did could not use theirs in the first couple days. When we finally made the team and got equipment I remember setting aside a special practice day for each one of those guys. They might still remember their special day.
DSS will be fine. Strongly encourage him to talk with the coach. Big Tip #1: Tell him when the coach blows the whistle to call in the players SPRINT to the coach and be the first in. This is always a great impression.
You sound strong and poised as usual. Have a great weekend.
Bugs;
You sound great!
2x4 warning:
You've got to get darker. Emails should not be directly between you and him (even with attorneys copied).
Where is your intermediary? Use your intermediary to tell him to knock it off with sending messages through DD.
When DD is on the phone with him....LEAVE THE ROOM. Do not be anywhere nearby so she can talk to you while she talks to him...
*2x4 over*
Ok -- on DSS's football career. Do you have any male friends that might work with him? I have a longtime friend who was a college football player, and he's given my son lots of tips and advice. If you have DSS this weekend, maybe you could have such a friend spend an hour or two preparing him for tryouts? Just even having the correct 3 point stance, wrapping his arms on a tackle -- little things like that....
WOW that's a tough age. And kids are often not nice to each other!
Hello again!
Let's see,,,,,YES, we've been using the pool! It's great! Sis & BIL have been over 3x and HE always vacums for me! I will have to do myself today, and that's ok. I need a bit of "down time" by myself.
Yes, Drac does want this over. I think you are right LG, he's out of money. His A told mine that his credit card is ANOTHER 4K higher. Who knows if that is true or not. It may very well be as I understand that HO has lost her job, so I am sure he is supporting her. Probably going to move her in with him at OUR house! PUKE!!
No, I really don't want it to be over. I do want my H back, but frankly, there's nothing I can do to make that happen. I CAN delay the FINAL papers being offical,,, I have not taken the required parenting class yet and they won't finish up until I do. So, I am not going to get in a hurry about that.
I want so desperately for Drac to say that he was WRONG!! I want him to acknowledge the damage he has caused to all of us. I want him crawling back to me on his hands and knees!!! I want my H and my FAMILY!!
But, what more can I do?????
Right now, I am trying to focus merely on putting my life together here. Getting my house together, getting DD in a good routine, keeping up with DSS as much as I can, and focusing on work. I am so very Blessed to be in the sitch that I am, so I try not to give in to the "I am doing good, BUT,,,,,," kind of thinking.
I have thought about how Drac will feel or what he will think going back to OUR house with all of my and DD's stuff gone. Pictures removed, the little "touches" that a woman brings to the house, etc. It's going to look a lot more empty. Will it feel that way to him? Will it matter to him?? I know I shouldn't wonder those things, but I do.
Thanks for all of the tips on DSS. I was very into sports in school, so can give him lots of advice and tips, and will have BIL, Bro and other work with him when he is here. The truth is, as I said before, as much as I know sports would help him socially, in his confidence, etc., DSS is just not athletic. Chris, as you said, HUSTLE is a HUGE thing. DSS is just one of those kids that seems to have NO hustle in him at all. But, who knows, maybe this will turn out to be his "thing". I will do what I can to help him. I DO worry about the other kids being mean to him - - - historically he has always been one of the kids who gets picked on anyway. Sports groups can be even worse for that,,,,,I know as I was probably mean to a few kids myself. Not that I am proud of that at all, just looking back I can admit to it.
Lexxx,,,,, 2x4 taken, but intermediary has not been available. I DO leave the room when DD talks to Drac, but she came and found me last night at Drac's direction. I just nodded my head at hear, not answering out loud for him to hear me at all.
So, any ideas on what else I should be/could be doing here?
I am going to call my A later and tell her to take the offer, unless she advises otherwise for some reason. I am also going to talk to her about updating the expense numbers on the child support calculation,,,, my expenses HAVE changed. Don't know if/how it will impact it, but I want to make sure it's updated.
I feel so bad for DSS hearing about this.
My DS is 14 and is a jock through and through. And even though he's definitely on the inside with those sports groups, I've seen those kids be just *awful* to each other.
I know he's been hurt emotionally by "friends". Maybe its just boys that age.
What a rotten time to have a distracted father...
Anyways....
Sounds like affair-land is going badly. Ho sounds needy.
I suspect you're right about why he's trying to expedite things. But don't stress on it. Remember the HO-overdose works in your favor.
Focusing on your life is what you need to do. Moving on. (literally!!!)
Drac is going to start feeling you moving farther and farther away....(literally!!!)
Have you ever read the divorce busters 180 list? Or CarolK's story? I think the timing is right for him to start worrying about being replaced. I suggest you remain 100% on the high road...meaning doing nothing questionable or dishonorable. However -- if he starts hearing from DSS or DD about "Bob" who helped you move etc....well you get the picture. He will be eaten up with jealousy and no outlet to find out what's going on. Guess who he takes that out on? HO.
I know its seems a little game-playing...Just a suggestion.
I want so desperately for Drac to say that he was WRONG!! I want him to acknowledge the damage he has caused to all of us. I want him crawling back to me on his hands and knees!!! I want my H and my FAMILY!!
Yep, all of us BS's would like that....Unfortunately Bugs I think there are differing degrees of WS's. I think there are those that some point really get it and move back committed to a new marriage and making amends for the rest of their lives whether asked for by the BS or not. Then I think there are those who move back because something didn't work out with OW/M or they didn't want to lose their home, money, children, families, friends, etc. These sometimes work at recovery and sometimes don't instead just getting by and perhaps still pining for their wayward life and soul mate. There are those who move back and just want to cake eat until they are ready to be wayward again. Then there are those that don't get it, don't want to get it and refuse to accept any responsibility for their actions, entitlement, selfishness and don't care if the world knows it. These don't see any way out or don't want any way out of the cavern. They have made their bed and are moving on come ****** or high water the consequence. They will simply blame someone else (the BS in most cases), or justify, legitimize their choices. They are destined to a hollow, shallow, life of momentary ups and drastic and long lasting downs.
Lexxx,
Yep, I think it's boys especially at that age, but I know the girls can be just as bad, , ,if not worse. Either way it's a rough time in ANY kid's life, let alone, as you point out, having a Dad whose not 110% there for him when he really needs it.
I've not read the 180 or CarolK's story,,, will take a look. A while back Drac mentioned that earlier this year when he thought I was seeing someone, he was angry, but got over it. He was telling me this as part of his, "I know you are angry,,,,I understand" BULLCRAP speech. I know not to believe anything a WS says,,,,,,but this makes me wonder if it would matter at all or not. However, me being out here on my own,,, out of HIS realm completely may put a different spin on things?? Don't know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
H&P,
I have read and thought about all of the different kinds of WS you mention above. In fact, have been reading a lot about them today!
I am afraid that Drac is in the last catagory. He doesn't get it, doesn't WANT to get it and refuses to accept any responsibility for his actions. Until this last move back to my original offer, that has been his M.O. almost the whole time,,,,, even when he and the HO were broken up and he was "seeing me" again, it was still about entitlement and selfishness. And yes, TOTAL BLAME lies on my shoulders. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I would LOVE to send one last Olive Branch out to him before Monday, but he has given no indication that he is in any position to even think about accepting it. So, will remain dark and let the A do her job. I feel very sad when I think about that. That it is probably way past TOO late for us to ever recover. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
As Sis was talking about today, there is what "IS" and then what we want or what WE think "SHOULD BE". Well, I am working hard to deal with what IS.
Right now that means that my bathroom floor is drying since I just handscrubbed it, and I need to disconnect and move my computer to the other room!
Will ck back with you all later.
You can strut your stuff, but put your head in the ground to get to complete darkness.
Remember bugs: God is a very patient person, and we must be as well. He will allow things to get worse for Drac while he waits for him to answer his calling. You are in such a great place now. Were you this close to God before ?
I know I wasn't. This has changed my life, and I am sure it has changed yours as well. Our goal is to focus on the Lord. Remember we are the branches, HE is the vine. We can wave our little hands all we want, but it's not for us to accomplish the work. IT is GOD'S job. we will waver and we will sway, but it's up to us to stay focused on God and watch while he works this through.
God may seem like he's taking forever, but he is just using his patience to make sure that Drac is not lost. We must do the same. God's purpose is so that none will perish, but all have everlasting life.
Our husbands are ignoring God's signals, and warnigns. God will not let them off that easily. The heat will be turned up under their feet til they do so. Do we want to be by them when this happens ? No we do not !!!
You are doing such a great job !!! You are truly one of God's angels. We will be rewarded !!! You just wait til you and I receive God's Finest. Who knows if it is our husbands, It may be something better yet.
Our husbands are ignoring God's signals, and warnigns. God will not let them off that easily. The heat will be turned up under their feet til they do so. Do we want to be by them when this happens ? No we do not !!!
You are doing such a great job !!! You are truly one of God's angels. We will be rewarded !!! You just wait til you and I receive God's Finest. Who knows if it is our husbands, It may be something better yet. [/quote]
Amen....
You hang in there Bugs. I'm on my way to church and you are in my prayers!
Smartiepants
Good morning!
INeed,
You are right, patience is the key. I will be dark,,even darker now that I am away,,,,but it hasn't been easy with the move. In fact, I've had to communicate with Drac more in the last week than I have since going to Plan B.
I will be dark, and patient, but not an ostrich. To me, an ostrich is one that sticks it's head in the sand to avoid what IS. I need to be dark, but VERY much dealing with what IS at the same time. So, I'll have to come up with another anology that works for me. Maybe a catapillar,,,,in a dark cocoon,,, waiting to emerge a beautiful butterfly!
Smartie,
You are right, when the implosion comes, I don't need to be close enough to get splattered with debris! Lol!
Thanks for the prayers and encouragement!
So, let me back up to Friday. TM to Drac asking for DSS's football practice/game schedule. TM back stating that Drac does not have a schedule yet, but that practice will be getting over between 4:30 and 5:30. So, I get DD off the bus and hit the road, as we needed to leave right away to get to DSS's school by 4:30. On the way, VOICE MAIL from Drac again stating the times and asking if I was getting him or if HE needed to go pick him up. I TM - "I will get DSS" I dropped Mom & DD off at the house and headed to the football field, right on time.
I sit down in the bleachers to watch practice, ANOTHER TM from Drac, "Any word on DSS?". I replied "Practicing" He replies "Please have him call me after".
Practices goes til 5:30. DSS is SO EXCITED. He LOVED it!! We chat in the car like crazy about how much he likes it, how he needs to study up on the game, etc. GREAT NEWS - - All of the kids that try out make the team!! I am SO Thrilled for him! I think it's going to be a great experience. He gets out his phone and wants to call Drac, while I don't want to listen to the call in the car, I tell him OK, as he's so anxious to tell him all about the practice.
He calls Drac and has pretty much the same convo that he had with me. Drac asks him to ask me if we are going to the cousin's bday party the next day. I nod. He then is asking DSS about where are we? Where are we going? Where are we staying? Where is DD? Guess he was just anxious to get in the house?? Whatever.
So, we go to the house, get some dinner for the kids. Mom & I get started finishing the packing. I let the kids stay up and my Sis from another state arrives to help. Kids fall out to sleep about 10pm. We stay up packing until 12:30. I can't sleep and am up until 3am. Back up at 6 to get finished.
BIL, Bro miss the an exit to my house! LOTs of laughs and fun!! Sis and I pick up UHaul truck and get get started loading. Midmorning DD and DSS go to Aunt's house and will go with them to the birthday party, which worked out Perfect! We finish loading the truck. Sis, BIL, and Bro head out to new house. Mom & I finish up at the house at just the right time to head to the party to make an appearance and get the kids.
I left a bottle of wine on top of the wine rack that we had specially labeled "To Celebrate the Wedding of Drac and Bugs". I left an album of pics of our family on the desk. I left a stack of pics of our family in the bedroom beside his honeymoon t-shirt. I left a family wedding pic on the wall, and Mom,,,, God Bless her,,, left a book that we got for our wedding "A Promise of Forever", on the back of the toilet!
Walking out that door was one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life. Mom had walked outside to give me time alone. I stood holding on to the front door and just broke down. It took a while, but I finally pulled it together and walked out the door. Outside, Mom was crying too. We sat in the car and cried, eventually pulling out. I went for a brief drive to pull myself together before heading to the party to get the kids,,,,, I KNEW that Drac was going to be there and did NOT want to go.
Got to the party, Mom at my side, and walked up. It was at a park, which was a good thing. We got there just in time to see her eat her birthday cake,,,,,,,,,,she's just now 1, so it was VERY special. I went around and said hello to everyone. Lots of hugs and kisses from all. Mom recv'd a very warm reception as well. We stayed for cake. I took lots of great pics. When kids finished with cake, we got ready to leave. Again, VERY HARD! I started to cry. His ENTIRE family were so sweet. Telling me to take care, we love you, keep in touch, got an invite to another bday party next month, lots of them telling me to call if we need anything, and that we will ALWAYS be family. I made it out before breaking down completely.
Got in the car and lost it in front of the kids. Not terrible, but was really crying. DD asked me what was wrong and I told her I was sad. Mom was great. I was so glad she was there with me.
Not ONCE did I look at Drac or speak to him. Neither did my Mom. My mom even told Drac's dad that she wasn't going to speak to Drac, and he said, "That's OK babe, you don't need to or have to, I understand" FIL was visibly upset when I left. No one seemed to be having anything to do with Drac that I could tell, but again, I wasn't looking at him.
We got to the new house and got everything inside and collapsed! Kids swam in the pool with Sis. I took back the truck, picked up some clothes for DSS as we forgot his stack of clothes, I also bought him cleats for football as he had asked, and brought home some KFC for dinner. Kids talked to Drac at bedtime and we all fell asleep early & exhausted.
Drac did have DSS ask me if I am taking him home today or if Drac needs to pick him up. I said I didn't know. Guess I'll need to send tm on that later. My plan is that I will take him home.
I am still exhausted with tons to do,,, so should not be here typing this now!! he he!
I know the interaction with Drac isn't the darkness I hoped for, but really could not be helped in the situation. DSS should have his schedule tomorrow so we can be better prepared moving forward. I should be able to stay very dark for the next few weeks.
I do not have to go to court tomorrow. The A's will get an extention to do the settlement paperwork and then that too, will be finished. I can't "go there" right now in my mind. I will ck back later if I have the energy!
Bugs,
I've not ever posted to you but have been following your thread. I'm not trying to come across as harsh, please don't take it that way, because you are doing a great job but as a FWS I see a big hole you created.
From what I can see Drac is getting his "fix" of you. I thought you blocked TM on your phone. How are you able to text back and forth with him? Any contact regardless how small and meaningless it seems to you is huge to him. It gives him relief that he can still get you to respond some how, some way.
Plan B is scary as heck from the WS POV. My DH never had to do Plan B on me, but the total loss of control is what causes the WS's head to spin, (IMO anyway). From what I can see, his head isn't spinning fast enough yet for him to realize what he is doing.
You are dark, but he still is seeing some light. I also know it has to be hard, but you have to be dark and stay dark. He will play all the games he can with you, you have to ignore all of them no matter how difficult.
I understand why you would go to the party, but IMO that was a mistake. You should have sent your mom to get the kids. I would also say he expected you would be there, again getting his "fix." It would have sent a very powerful message had you not gone. Does what I'm saying make sense?
In WS fantasyland he THINKS you came to the party to see him, he thinks you are texting him to talk to him (for him it's not about your children, it's all about him.) Everything you do he perceives it to be all about him, that is how the typical WS mind works.
I hope I'm not coming across as being harsh and I hope you think about what I've said.
He's clinging to all thh bits of light you keep giving him and that gives him a sense of control.
LC
Glad you got though everything yesterday. Sounds like it was tough. (((HUGS)))
Enjoy your new home. Your family sounds wonderful, glad they were there to share the day with you.
How are you going to re-establish Plan B?
LC,
I didn't think your post was harsh at all. I went to the party only to have the chance to say Goodbye to family members, many that I won't see or talk to until the holidays. Yes, I could call them or send them cards, so I own the choice I made to go, knowing he would be there. I realize he got a "fix" of me, so to speak. But he also got (IMO), a dose of "You are an A-hole" from his family right in front of his face.
I DID have TM turned off on my phone. I ordered a new phone last week and apparently it was turned back on. He can also email to my Blackberry. As we both work for the same company, I can not turn that off or block him there. I figured with the sitch the way it was, TM was better than talking or VM.
My plan to go back to dark as possible is to have one last communication with him spelling out in detail the kid schedule with the new living arrangements, so that there are no questions that he would need to ask me.
TM will be shut off on the phone again tomorrow. I will not respond to any further messages unless they are emergency matters with the kids.
Remember, he THOUGHT he had control by blocking me from BUYING my house. He didn't sign, but I got the house anyway. I thinks he will continue to get to me by having the kids ask questions when they are on the phone with him - - NO MORE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
What else am I missing? PLEASE feel free to point out other loop holes or make suggestions!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
It was a TOUGH day. I am exhaused today, so am not doing much at all.
My family is the BEST! I am so blessed to have them!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Bugs, you are just not in Plan B. You do not have to participate in message passing with the kids. Just because your husband asks, doesn't mean you answer. Stop it.
You should NOT have gone to the party. That was a flat out attempt to shame Drac.
Plan B is NOT licensce to Lovebust, which is what you did.
If you have to communicate - post a calendar online.
Yahoo, Google, there are calendaring services where you could just post your schedule and where Drac can check.
There is way too much back and forth.
You need an intermediary.
Plan B modified simply becomes Plan Lovebust and Plan Lovedrain.
BR,
Ok, help me out here a bit.
You should NOT have gone to the party. That was a flat out attempt to shame Drac.
Plan B is NOT licensce to Lovebust, which is what you did.
Drac knew that the kids and I were going to be at this party. He knew that it would be my chance to say goodbye to the family. YES, I was glad that he had to witness a part of the breaking up of our 'family', but why is my attending this party at all a LB?
If you have to communicate - post a calendar online.
Yahoo, Google, there are calendaring services where you could just post your schedule and where Drac can check. If you have to communicate - post a calendar online.
I was not aware of this and LOVE the idea. I will check it out. This sounds like the perfect solution to the kid schedule matters. That is really the only opening I've had on the communication. Shutting that down will shut down all communication.
There is way too much back and forth.
I don't disagree with you on this at all.
You need an intermediary.
Currently on vacation until next Monday.
Bugs,
The first thing I want to do is send you a big cyberhug because you deserve it. I can't even imagine having to do plan B on someone.
Drac knew that the kids and I were going to be at this party. He knew that it would be my chance to say goodbye to the family. YES, I was glad that he had to witness a part of the breaking up of our 'family', but why is my attending this party at all a LB?
Unfortunately it means something different to a WS than to someone who "gets it". Most likely he didn't see what you think he saw. The only thing he saw was that you needed to see him. Now that probably isn't true, but in the selfish, WS mind that is probably what he saw.
With every encounter you have with him envisions what a selfish person would do or how they would feel, not what you would do or how you would feel. Remember he thinks everything is about him.
Of course I can only tell you things based on my experience, but I was very text book. If your WS is text book then I would say this would be fairly close to what's going on in his head.
Edited to add: You gave him something to talk about with the OW. Conversation could go something like this.
Drac: OMG you won't believe what Bugs did at the party. First off, she was so distraught when she saw me that she couldn't even look at me. Then she went around hugging and kissing everyone like she was never going to see them again as long as she lives. (eye roll)
OW (hee, hee)
See how your version and his can be 180 apart?
LC
Heres the thing.
Plan B is a boundary.
Boundaries are the responsbility of the individual drawing the boundary.
It is not up to Drac to respect your boundary.
It is up to you to maintain it.
You did not *have* to attend a party held by his family - you could have found plenty of other ways to say goodbye to his fmaily, ways in which your husband wasn't involved.
I said this to Sis and I'll say it to you...
The danger for a BS in Plan B, is that the BS rationalizes and justifies contact with the WS. The real motivation behind these incidents are not innocent...
Anytime you gain at your spouse's expense....you are lovebusting.
This was an attempt to straighten him out, manipulate his family into pressuring him, force him to see things your way...
If your intermediary is not available....get a stand in.
Don't use that as an excuse for contact or use your children.
LC & BR,
Thanks! This helps me see it much better. So, Ok, should have skipped the party. Nothing I can do about that now, other than move back to darkness.
LC, I can TOTALLY see that conversation happening. Thanks for the insight there. After I read it, I felt like saying DUH to myself!
BR when you said -
Anytime you gain at your spouse's expense....you are lovebusting.
This was an attempt to straighten him out, manipulate his family into pressuring him, force him to see things your way...
YEP, you are right. That's pretty much what I did. DUH again to myself!
I guess it was just that this seems like THE END and I allowed my pain and desire to have him feel some or acknowledge the pain he has caused to drive my actions. I want so bad to have him admit in some way that he is wrong and to show that the loving, caring, H he used to be is still inside there somewhere.
I know,,,, expecatations I should not have of WS.
Yesterday Drac did call DSS about if I was taking DSS home or if he was coming to get him. I'd told DSS I was taking him home. I guess Drac mentioned something to DSS about meeting 1/2 way - - -is that about controlling me/the situation or was he being nice? I don't know??
Anyway, we left early and went out for a nice dinner. We had a great time. Drac was moving back into OUR house today apparently. I took DSS there and his car was parked in MY spot. OUCH! I was relieved that the HO's car wasn't there. I pulled in and turned around so that his car blocked the view of mine from the front door. He could not see me.
DD wanted to go in to say hi, so I let her. She came back out with a door stop that belonged to me. She also told me that Daddy said we could take both cats. I'd told her we were leaving the cats because one belonged to Daddy and one to me and I didn't want to split them up. The truth is I don't want them. Too much work & too much Hair!! One is a white persian,,tired of white cat hair on all my clothes!
She said the kitten that Drac had gotten while at FIL's really likes his new house but the 2 current cats don't like him. Now Drac has 3 cats to take care of! Not my problem.
I am going to ck out those calendar services that you mentioned, BR. I will let Drac know the new schedule and that we will use the calendar for updates. That should totally shut down any interaction unless there is an emergency.
The rest of my day will be spent trying to put some order into my new home. Raining and yucky outside, so won't get in any pool time, but that is probably a good thing. No temptation to just lay out there all day when I should be working.
AND, I have to find some after school care of DD. No luck yet. Keeping my fingers crossed to find something today. Family can help out for a while, but not long term.
Any other suggestions on shutting down the interaction is always welcome.
Sounds like things are moving along in your direction too!
The school doesn't have after-care? Does your parents know someone?
Good luck with that!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Keep smiling!
Bugs:
Some of this Plan B stuff will get easier.
I am glad that BR expanded on why the party was a LB. I didn't see it that way at first, but she made it clear...
Your efforts at Plan B status will get alot easier now that you are in YOUR new home.
Good luck with the childcare for DD. Kinda late in the game for it right now, so you have your work cut out for you.
LG
Well, blessings keep coming my way! School has latch key program and they have openings! She will start Wed, but I do have to inform/request agreement from Drac, but I expext no issues.
Intermed. logged in while out of town and let me know Drac sent a pleasant email last Thurs. apologizing for bringing DD home late and asking if 8 pm would be better to have her home than 8:30 so we can go over school stuff and get ready for bed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />I was suprised. Told her to reply 8 pm would be better and to include it in the info/request on latch key program.
Am running out to get her signed up right now!
gREAT, DON'T YOU LOVE WHEN A plan works out!
AWESOME!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Rin,
Wasn't it the A Team where the one guy always said, "I love it when a plan comes together?" Gee, hate to admit I watched that show! LOL!
Drac agreed to the latch key with no problem. Although he wants me to have them bill him every other month and send a bill to our old house?? DUH! Apparently it's been so long since he's paid daycare (I always paid), that he doesn't know you pay each week in ADVANCE. He just doesn't want to have to pay ME. Whatever.
Apparently he also offered to meet me 1/2 way on the Sundays that I return DSS to his house OR if I am too "uncomfortable" meeting him, his Dad will meet me. Well, I am not doing that. While it seems like a nice offer, it puts me at his mercy, so to speak. This is a man that is never on time, unless it is for work. I won't sit around a parking lot or a McDonald's waiting on him. I will take DSS to the house. He can go in by himself if Drac is not there.
I am calling DSS's football coach myself to get his practice schedule and I downloaded the game schedule from the website. So, I'll have that covered without any communication with Drac.
Today am working more on the house, last day of vacation. Dad is coming to help me hook up washer and dryer sometime today. Guess I'd better get off here before he arrives,,,,
LMAO...I watched it too, with my SD growing up!
Well, it sure does sound like you have everything together...and what did you have Drac around for? LMAO...
Just trying to get a smile this morning...
You're awesome!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Hey Rin!
I just "sound" like I have it all together! I am one of those people that figure if I can ACT like it, it will eventually be true! ha LOL!
It's been a while,,,, so don't get me started on what I had Drac around for,,,let's keep it clean!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I had Drac notified that tonight is Meet the Teacher night for DD’s school. He would have known himself had he #1 read the sign outside of the school when he picked her up and #2 if he had gone through her backpack when he picked her up last week.
Should I have done that or should I have let it rest on him? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Well, it’s done. He can’t make it as DSS has football practice & he can’t find someone to get DSS “on such short notice”. He wants me to find out if they have a ‘mailing list’ and have him put on it! Not gonna do it. That is HIS responsibility, right? Am not even going to have a reply sent to him on that.
I have to get DARKER. This is really draining me. I did find a calendar service yesterday and am figuring out how to use it so then I can notify Drac and end the communication on the kids.
Dad hooked up washer and dryer this am. Have laundry going now, am going to finish up getting DD’s paperwork in for latch key and may run to the store for a bit. Frankly, I am looking at piles of clothes that need to be put away and am avoiding it! Kitchen, living room and bathrooms are all organized. Am down to the bedrooms and am running out of steam! Maybe I’ll get some put away to finish out this week and take the afternoon off and go for a swim!
My niece is coming over to watch DD while I go to the school tonight, so I HAVE to clean the pool,,,, right?? It’s so great to have family so close and have a flexible life!
Later!
Bugs,
I'm still keeping up. I have to agree with everyone else... You are not DARK enough!!! Let Drac take care of himself. You cannot continue to be there making sure he keeps up with his children's lives. It is his responsibility now. That's what he thinks he wants right! So let him have it. Let the HO take care of him now. How is he supposed to figure out that the HO can't take your place if you're still there behind the scenes taking care of business?
Ask yourself this, "is what I'm about to do going to bring me closer to my goal?"
That's what helped me keep things in perspective throughout plan A and plan B. It helped me stop whatever I was about to do or say and think about it in terms of consequences/out comes.
Overall, you still sound great and very strong. Keep it up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
am one of those people that figure if I can ACT like it, it will eventually be true! ha LOL!
LMAO...same way here, at least that's what i've been taught! HERE!
I agree, let him find his way...enough enabling! I'm not calling POWS about Open house for either of the boys...he wants to know, he can ask the HN1...
Hey Daze!
Thanks for stopping by. I am struggling so much with Plan B!! I'll take all of the advice I can get.
So, here's a dilemma for everyone to throw in their 2 cents.
Drac sent message. Apparently it said he needs to get DD from SCHOOL tomorrow - - - it is supposed to be her FIRST day of latch key tomorrow.
Also, he needs to drop her off by 6pm as he is taking the Children First program at 7pm - -- That's the class needed to finalize our D.
So, what kind of response do I have sent back? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Here's what I am thinking -
Bugs asks that you pick up DD from latchkey as all has been set for her first day and it would cause great confusion, especially for her to make a change now in the agreed upon plan.
You will need to make arrangements to return DD to Bugs home at 8pm, as Bugs will not be home by 6pm.
It's NOT my problem, right? He was SO insistent on getting HIS visitation each week as "per the parenting plan". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I, in fact, planned to work late tomorrow, as it will be my first day back from vacation. I truly did not plan to be home until late.
Please help with a GREAT PLAN B response!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
HELP HELP HELP!
Drac is trying to step all over my boundaries and I need advice on how to best enforce them.
Last night I called DSS to just check in with him on how football was going. We had a great talk. I was on my way home from DD's open house. He asked if DD was there to talk to her, I told him no she's not here right now.
2 seconds later, Drac calls the cell phone, I didn't answer. When I got home and got things settled, DD called him. She told me he asked her when Mommy plans to answer his email message about tomorrow??!! UGH
I had him informed that it would be best to pick up DD from latchkey, it's only going to be 20-30 minutes later than picking her up directly from school, and will be much less confusing for her. Also, that due to work I would not be home for him to drop her at 6pm. He should drop her at 8 pm as agreed.
This am, he sent a reply. He agreed that picking her up from latch key would be best for her, but then said something about "but" the class being mandatory for us. He HAS to take this one tonight as the next one is not until the end of the month.
SO what???? Is he just further rubbing in my face that the D is going through and he just can't wait??
He CAN take her with him, they offer childcare, but she won't be home until after 9pm!! On a school night!!!
I am so MAD!
I WANT to respond, but know I can't MAKE him do the right thing, and trying to point out the right thing will get me nowhere.
So, do I even have a response sent??
Do I make arrangements for someone to be at my house at 6pm??
I am so torn between doing what is BEST for DD, and letting Him have to be responsible for himself and all that goes with it. The problem is that DD will be paying the Price of HIS selfishness!!
WHAT DO I DO??????
I picked up vm's from my cell and forgot one was his from last night. In his HATEFUL voice he says 'I KNOW you have your phone, you just talked to DSS. I want to talk to DD!! Have her call me!'
BIG mistake listening to it, I know. It is NOT helping me and is just knotting up my guts!
Bugs:
You HAVE to do NOTHING.
Drac scheduled something, and didn't run it by you first, so it makes his plan difficult.
He planned something for his night with DD. His Choice.
Your not at fault here.
Drac:
Please return DD to the house after your meeting.
Bugs.
Phone call, missed msg, V-M. Testing those boundaries.
He is really feeling the choices he has made. No BUGS to help him out.
It's on him, and he don't like it.
His Choice.
Didn't you get a Cell phone for DD? Now you know why you need to do that.
LG
Thanks LG.
My Mind had the line of logic you say above,,,.y emotions just took me somewhere else.
I just hate this whole situation.
I do not 'get it' at all. I know I have been told hundreds of times how it is 'typical' Selfish WS behavior, but am struggling. I know it is because I am not dark enough, and am struggling with that as well. Hurting. The feeling that Drac can not get rid of me fast enough is hard.
I can do nothing to change him, I know. But, I can still WANT him to change, can't I?
I have to get focused on everything BUT him. Wish he'd just stick to the schedule and I would not be drawn so much into it.
Bugs:
These Lines:
I can do nothing to change him
Wish he'd just stick to the schedule
Accept that this is your life and roll to his whims.
Or, Go dark, and avoid the contact, as much as possible.
Someone on the divorcing thread talked about HOW ANGRY his WexW was because he didn't give her the time of day anymore.
"Why can't you accept the situation and be friendly to me?" asked the WexW
He states simply "You divorced me, I consult with you in regards to the kids and DO NOT CARE WHAT ELSE YOU DO"
Really, Really makes the WW mad.
So What.
Drac's choice. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE HIS FRIEND.
Your plan B letter laid it out.
Email him a copy, stating at the top, "What part don't you understand?" "I'm giving YOU what you wanted."
"I have even given you a path home. Please make a choice. It's all or nothing."
That may be a lovebuster. But the standard response to attempts to break Plan B is to send a copy of the Plan B letter.
So there you have it.
And Bugs, he wants to make it YOUR FAULT. Let him. It's his only justification for his actions. Stay on the high road.
Schedule your "Co-Parenting" meeting at your convienence.
Bugs, these are HIS choices. HE doesn't like the outcome of them. TOUGH.
IT will be hard on you, but time, and you being consistent, will slowly make it easier on you.
Remember, I told you that Drac will pay less and less attention to DD if this D goes to Final.
You defended him, but that was the father he WAS. Not the father he will BE. Right now, he's trying to look good for the court.
BTW, the unemployed HO will start to become more and more involved with DD. Sorry. Just what I see Drac doing. Someone has to take care of things for him. Bugs isn't there, and Drac certianly has more important things to do.
Sorry.
To bad this wasn't South Park..."OH NO! we killed..."
But there he is, in next weeks episode....
LG
LG,
Love the South Park reference! He Hated that show for that very thing! He he!
So, you pretty well laid it on the line, and I would say you nailed it. This is Drac we are talking about, not my H or DD's Good Daddy. Not any more.
I could send him a copy of the PBL, but what good would it do? He won't 'get it'. He'd merely read it as me still being in love with him and ME trying to control him. He's on the Drac Only Plan for Life. No one or nothings exists or matters in any way except how it relates to him and what he wants, the way he wants it.
I don't get why he needs to try to make this my fault? And why it seems he is trying to punish me. As you said, I am giving him what he wants, why isn't he happy with it?
Bugs:
You stated this:
"I could send him a copy of the PBL, but what good would it do?"
It tells him, AGAIN, what he should expect.
And anytime you allow him to deviate from that, YOU get upset.
That's why you send him that. You become a machine.
Drac calls you ---> You send PBL
Drac Texts you ---> You send PBL
Drac sends note through kid ---> You send PBL
The only thing that Drac should get from you? PBL.
Unless he agrees to the terms. And those terms were not that harsh.
You have decided to live without Drac in your Life, unless he agrees to the PBL.
He doesn't have to like it. YOU certainly do not like him living/being with HO.
Sort of a catch22. But not really. You have decided to remove Drac from your life. H can return at any time.
Because the H is the catch. WH is the 22. Useless.
And he wants to make it YOUR FAULT, because then, it's NOT HIS FAULT. Wayward Thinking. HO, and him moving out, and doing all the things he is doing, not his fault. But YOU! YOU AREN'T PLAYING ALONG! You don't have to. Sorry, his sandbox is stained and spoiled, and you got out of it.
Only Drac can clean it. The disinfectant is in the PBL.
Oh, yeah, good thing you didn't change his address from the old house. He and HO can just get the mail there together from now on.
That's coming next.
Sorry.
Time to get P!$$ed off.
LG
Lg,
I get it. Drac doesn't and probably never will.
I had to laugh this afternoon, though. He is planning on heading out from a business meeting on the 30th to the usual lake destination for Labor Day and wants to know MY plans for having DSS.
Per the Parenting Plan Labor Day weekend is HIS holiday. What a dumb a$$ again, only thinking of himself.
I am glad to have the kids, just one more non-compliance for him on the visitation he DEMANDED! You called it,LG. I just did not expect it to start so soon.
Well, gotta go print off about 100 PBLs.
Will catch up later!
Well, gotta go print off about 100 PBLs.
That'll get you started for the rest of this month and a couple of weeks into next.... LOL
Just imagine trying to remember to throw them all away so HO won't find them.
DO NOT FIX THIS FOR HIM!!!
He is looking for you to take him off the hook and make things easy for his labor day weekend. DO NOT FIX THIS FOR HIM!!!
It's his weekend. Do NOTHING. Do not offer to take DSS.
Let him figure out how to handle these things without SuperBugs. He is divorcing you. That means he does not get your Super Powers anymore!
This is one of those nasty little consequences of being a scumbag. He needs to get used to them....
DO NOT FIX THIS PROBLEM FOR HIM.
Notify your intermediary to reply that per the parenting schedule, Dracs has DSS that weekend.
(sorry been out of town awhile, and first thing I do is come back and YELL!!! lol)
Bugs -- Let Plan B work!
You sabotaging your own plan!
Get out of the way!
NO NO NO NO NO on taking DSS to make things easier for Drac.
Meggy,,
Good thing I can print at work and save $ on the paper! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Lexxx,
So glad you are back to yell at me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Really!
I am just trying to decide WHEN to have that message sent that it is his 'holiday' to have BOTH kids.
And oh, by the way, Bugs expects that YOU,Drac, will be picking her up, not a friend or the Ho.
Which means Drac has a 3.5 hour drive back to get DD and another 4 hour drive back to the lake. Too bad so sad.
Is that more like a proper Plan B?
Oh, I did NOT ask about getting him on any school mailing list. I did NOT send him DD's teacher's email address. I did NOT tell him I signed up for parent/teacher conference. I did not even let hin know there is a conference date or that he needs to sign up!
How's that?
another reason to stick to the plan...
the next holiday, YOUR scheduled holiday, will turn into a temper tantrum from him: You had the kids last holiday, now its MY turn!
You are not there to make his life easy or clean up his mess. Everytime you fix his problems he gets a Bugs fix.
Ok, so it's his holiday, he should have the kids. That is not a problem.
Question - is it considered 'fixing' by informing him it is His Holiday?
He has a copy of the parenting plan the same as I do. He knows which holidays he's had so far, but apparently is operating on his assumption that it is every other holiday rather than the groups of days spelled out in the plan.
Bugs:
How about this thru your intermediary:
Drac:
I had already made other plans for the upcoming holiday, as it was your holiday for the kids.
Bugs.
And leave it at that. You don't need to "fix" it. Your just stating the facts. If he wants to send another email asking you to take the kids, that's a different issue.
Plan B means you don't respond to Babble and Fog.
But you DO make sure that the facts are straight when warranted.
Drac may spin it, IF you delay, that "BUGS can't even answer me about where DSS might be during the holiday"
But, he will spin it anyway. Leave it at that. But he can't spin it if you keep it simple and truthful.
LG
through intermediary:
"Bugs has plans for labor day weekend.
It is your scheduled weekend with DD and DSS according to the parenting plan schedule."
Simple.
What agreements do you have about others doing pick-ups or drop-offs? I don't think you want to start a pi$$ing match over this one, cuz it could bite you later. If he wants to have FIL pick-up or drop off, I would accomodate that...it may help you later. (but ****** no for HO!!)
Thx guys. Simple and truthful is good for me.
We have no set agreement for others on pick up drop off, but family is always ok by me. Family would be the only ones I would ever use.
**** No on the Ho. For the lake trip, Drac would try to use 'friends', who furing our M would have been OK. Now, it would not. Chances are they will be taking the Ho with them!
I will have the message sent, referencing the parenting plan, tomorrow
Waiting for DD to get home. I set a bag w/weekend clothes outside for him to get tonight. This way she does not have to deal with taking anything to school on Fri for the weekend.
((((BUGS))))
Thinking of you!!!
You are doing well...growing little by little every day...sometimes sight unseen until we look back!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Rin,
Hoping I can look back soon and see that growth. Not so sure these days.
DD didn't make it home til 10! Although Drac had her call as soon as they left the class, so I knew they were later than he said.
She had fun playing, but said it was sad having to talk about D. I asked if she & Drac spoke about the class or the D, she said no. He can tell her we aren't married when we ARE, but won't talk to her about the D when he has taken her to a class about it??
Then she asks,
'Did you hear that Daddy and Ho broke up?'.
Apparently he found it necessary to tell her tonight that she won't be seeing the Ho any more because they broke up.
More drama. Why can't he see how the cr*p he does effects the kids when he puts them right into the middle?! Why even tell her that they broke up?
Ugh. Trying hard to sleep, not working real well.
Why even tell her that they broke up?
So she will tell YOU.
IAm,
Ok. Then what and again,,WHY?
It doesn't change anything. He is still going forward with the D.
Hope I don't sound TOO dense here !?!
Personally, I think that focusing on that question will drive you insane...
YOU WILL NEVER know the answer to that question or the countless other ones that go through your mind...
How much energy did you waste in your M trying to figure out what he was thinking or trying to make him understand WHERE you were coming from? I KNOW I WASTED ALOT!!!
It's a matter I THINK of them not wanting to understand, not caring, whatever...it's just something that we have to accept...not like, just ACCEPT!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Well good.
Affairs are always volatile!
And it shows you how effective Plan B is! When the pressure is on her to meet all his needs and make up for what he is losing, what happens? They "break-up".
Boo hoo.
Regardless of their status, Drac is still Drac. So until he faces his problems (within himself) he won't be ready for YOU. So no change to your plan.
You want H back, not WH. He's got work to do...
The fact that he attended the class speaks for his intentions. To tell DD that they broke up could just be a ploy. Or it could be the truth. Either way, he still DRAC at this point. When H slays DRAC, you'll know.
Good morning!
Yes, as much as I would love to be happy and hopeful that they did really break up and that it is a good sign for my M, I know it's not.
Is it possible that Drac could get through withdrawl and my H might emerge from the fog? I hope so!
As you said, Meggy, his taking the class clearly shows that Ho or No Ho, he is intent on finalizing the D. THIS is what hurts right now.
As I said last night, this is likely just more drama that I need not be a party to. It doesn't change anything at this point in time, unfortunately
I pulled out the latest parenting agreement before having Drac notified about labor day. Turns out that the schedule WE have been doing (he had Memorial Day which is Group B, I had 4th of July which is Group A) is Opposite of what was put in the last plan. It states I have B and he has A.
Think I will have him told that as he has exercised Group B holidays, Bugs has made plans according to that schedule.
Thoughts?
Done.
As I suspected he just assumed it was an 'every other' plan. Was told he has no problem with having them for that weekend. Apparently the reply came in the form of an apology for not knowing the plan?
What, now that Ho is supposedly gone (again) we are supposed to be nice friends?? Her being gone was only a portion of what he needs to do.
I will have to see if the pick up becomes an issue.
Bummer of this is that I will not have my kids for 3 weekends in a row, as the holiday weekend is my 'normal' weekend.
These holiday lake trips are hard for me. They have always been our Family Trips every year. I want to be invited!
Bugs sits here with her pouty face!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Don't count on them staying broken up. Adultry relationships are .... volatile.
The point of Plan B is that you get OFF the rollercoaster of "Are they or aren't they?" and just get on with Plan Bug's Life.
Ignore it, move on.
BR,
Yes, they thrive on the drama, don't they?
Well, I think I will spend my efforts on plans for the next 3 'kid free' weekends.
This weekend is house organizing time. Taking Fri night off to have a few folks over for a pool party. Low key, but fun. A mini Celebrate the New House party
Next weekend will spend at another lake camping with family and friends.
Third weekend will spend some time on the house and have a birthday party Sat night for a friend I have not seen in a few years.
I will be out of town on business most of next week and have a new boss, so work need major attention.
Praying for the continued strength to do it all AND to let go of Drac even more. He is God's now, not mine.
Bugs:
I wanted to comment on this:
"Is it possible that Drac could get through withdrawl and my H might emerge from the fog?"
YES.
That's the hope.
But its up to H. To slay Drac and return, with Hat in Hand.
Send him the Plan B letter.
He might "get it" this time.
LG
Send him the Plan B letter.
He might "get it" this time.
I agree.
LG & Meggy,
Ok, I am up for that.
Question - do I add any note as to a reason for sending it again or do I just send it?
He sent a message today. Apparently he made arrangments to pay his 1/2 of latch key direct to the center. I did not have any response sent, did not think it necessary.
I wouldn't say anything. It's just a gentle nudge, reminder, whatever. Let him figure it out. But that's me. Maybe write "Copy" on the top of it or something so he won't think you're losing it... forgetting that you already sent it.
Meggy,
He already thinks I am 'mentally unstable', remember? LOL!
I handed him a handwritten letter the first time. This will be printed from the computer so the only reason for him thinking I have lost it might be that I might want him back after all of this!
If my family knew they'd have me committed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well, the letter was sent last night. He should get it today or tomorrow. While I am doing my best not to think about it, I hope he doesn't view it as my being pathetic or anything of that nature. As he just told DD that he and the HO broke up, and that she likely told me, who knows what he will think. Whatever it is, that is in his world, not mine.
My world must go on without him. Am off to another crazy day at work. Lots to do, which is good.
Have to call Home Warranty company to fight with them over getting coverage for the air conditioner. Not really looking forward to that, but it has to be done. I talked to the real estate agent last night and "strongly" told her that if they don't cover most of the cost, I WILL be coming back to her and the selling agent to get some satisfaction. Have been subtly hinting at bringing in my lawyer if I have to!
Am having family over tomorrow. Mom is going to help me work on the house and then others coming over for a relaxing swim,,,celebrate the move party of sorts. Sunday will be spent getting ready for trip out of town.
I plan to attend a new church on Sunday. May have to try a few out first to find the right one. Mom said she'd like to start going with me, too.
Am going to miss having DD with me these next 3 weekends. Will need to stay busy to keep from feeling down. Am fighting that a bit this morning, but am just pushing on.
Have a great weekend everyone.
Bugs,
I think you should make an appointment for a nice, relaxing massage for one of the days DD will be gone. You certainly deserve to pamper yourself.
LC
Bugs:
I think your answer came to me as an answered prayer for my life. I have been diligently praying that God would show me his will for my life.
I encourage you to read 1 thessalonians, but especially chapter 4.
1 Thessalonians 4 vs 11: " And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you."
God's words tell us not to strive (worry) and as wives missing our husbands that's what we do. We are concerned with what they do, yet it tells us that we are commanded not to. This is god's way of refining us just a little more.
1 thessalonians 4 vs 18: " In everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you."
I am so thankful that this has happened in my life. I don't know if I would have ever realized that I was truly saved if it weren't for this experience. The more Christ has filled the void in my life, the more I am finding that I don't need my WS. I want him, but Christ is the only one I need. For this I am extremely thankful.
My father sent this to me the other day and I hope it helps you like it has me:
Malachi 3:3 says: "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver."
This verse puzzled some women in a Bible study and they wondered what this statement meant about the character and nature of God.
One of the women offered to find out the process of refining silver and get back to the group at their next Bible Study.
That week, the woman called a silversmith and made an appointment to watch him at work. She didn't mention anything about the reason for her interest beyond her curiosity about the proce ss of refining Silver.
As she watched the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest as to burn away all the impurities.
The woman thought about God hold ing us in such a hot spot; then she thought again about the verse that says: "He sits as a refiner and purifier of silver." She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined.
The man answered yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. If the silver was left a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed.
The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith, "How do you know when the silver is fully refined?"
He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's easy -- when I see my image in it."
If today you are feeling the heat of the fire , remember that God has his eye on you and will keep watching you until He sees His image in you.
Pass this on right now. This very moment, someone needs to know that God is watching over them. And, whatever they're going through, they'll be a better person in the end.
"Life is a coin. You can spend it anyway you wish, but you can only spend it once."
And I am doing a little better...almost passed out at work yesterday, but took another dramamine and continued on the day. My fever broke last night, so today will be a great day. I gave this day to the Lord and he won't let me down.
LC,
A massage sounds great! I need to find a place close to the new house! Thanks for the idea.
INeed,
Glad you may be feeling better. Still try to take it easy for a few days.
I loved the silver explaination! Very meaningful! Thanks!
In the subject line I said I am feeling like I am Abbey Normal today (Young Frankenstein movie reference).
I was thinking on the way to work that there should not be any communications on anything from Drac today. Infact, was hoping there would not be.
Within 30 min of getting to work I see an email that tells me he sent something that apparently needs a response from me as it is in my in box from M.
Is it ABNORMAL that I totally do not want to even open it?
For months I worked hard to get and planned endlessly for each and every possible contact with him. Now, even via 3rd party I do not want to deal with him.
What is wrong with me?
Funny huh?
You spend all that time planning how to get front of him, now you want to avoid him.
The peace of Plan B!
So what was so urgent? I assume "M" is your intermediary?
Hey Lexxx!
Well there have been 2 messages, both were sent to me virtually word for word, as they are both very business like, as apparently ALL of them have been. (I know, too much information about him from M).
First one today was to clarify the holiday schedule I guess he read the actual plan last night and it has listed the OPPOSITE of what we have been doing, which I I already knew.
But, for some reason he THINKS that he had DD for the 4th of July, but he did not. He just wants to be sure of the assigned groups so when he 'plans his vacations for next year' there are no problems. M should have left that part out. That really HURT, having to think ahead to next year without my H.
The 2nd one was just facts about his having paid 1/2 of the real estate tax and he will send me the bill to pay the other half.
I want to avoid him because I want him and miss him so much. I am feeling very low today. Been crying, which I have not done in a while (except leaving our house for the last time Sat). I haven't felt very good since. I think leaving there sapped some hope, and having some question/issue from Drac EVERYDAY this week - actually there has been something from or about him 10 out of the last 11 days - this has kept me in turmoil.
I have that, I want to curl up in a ball and cry all day feeling today.
So, how do I get beyond the urges to have reply sent to each and everything he sends?
I guess I need to have a reply sent on the holiday schedule. It is a SIMPLE answer, the final plan can be written for whichever way we want the groups of holidays to be.
WHY is he beating this (and me) to death? It just feels like more rubbing in my face that we won't ever be together again.
He has been using the smallest of excuses to attempt contact.
(Think back to high school...when you had a crush on someone, you would walk an extra lap around the school so they would notice you, its the same concept. I know - I know, he says he wants "nothing to do with you" however he doesn't want you gone either. He wants what he had before, you for family/domestic/financial and HO for the romance/sex/affection.)
Go dark dark darker!
It will soothe you.
If its true that he and HO have split, then his time is consumed with you...how to reach you.
Did you ever play those games when you were dating someone? Should I call? What reason do I have for calling?
I gotta think of SOMETHING...
Bugs,
I'm following and cheering for you.
Hugs to Bugs....
Bugs:
It's as my psycologist says. They are control freaks. Unless you pull the control away they will never be able to get help or need help.
Don't let him control you, Go deeper into the dark.
Again 1 thessalonians 4: 13
But I would not have you to be ignorant, bretheren, concerning them who are asleep (unbelievers), that ye sorrow not, even as others who have no hope.
See that if we were being ignorant then we would not cry for our husbands. Not only do we cry because we miss them, but we cry because we worry about their salvation as well.
and in verse 5 :
"Not in the lust of sensuality even as the Gentiles who know not God:
Our husbands do not know the Lord right now. Our job is to be quiet and to do our own business, but to pray full hartedly that they may come to salvation through Christ.
My favorite verse is vs 24 in the same chapter.
Faithful is HE that calleth you, who also will do it.
God is so faithful to us. He called us to join in his army. He will do as we ask. Give him time. Don't rush him. He needs to perfect our husbands. We wouldn't want them to come home and do this to us again. Let's keep praying til they are saved and then come home.
Lord, I pray that every stander for their marriage might be able to withdraw themselves from their prodigal, wayward spouses that walketh disorderly and not after the tradition which you received of us.
As standers in the flesh we sometimes walk disorderly, working not at all, but as busybodies worrying about our marriages.
Lord it hurts us. We do not wish to be as fools as our Wayward spouses. Help us to concentrate on your work instead of our marriages.
We pray that through Jesus Christ working in us, we might be able to work with quietness and eat of our own bread, and be not weary in doing well.
We pray that if our spouses don't obey your word that you might give us the strength to have no company with them so that our wayward spouses might be ashamed.
We do not count them as an enemy Lord, but we love them with the unconditional love that you have taught us through your son Jesus Christ.
We pray that the word of the Lord may have free course with us, and be glorified as it is with you. That we might be delivered from unreasonable and wicked spouses;for not all spouses have faith.
Lord, you are faithful, and we trust that you will keep the standers from evil.
We have confidence that you Lord, that you will enable us standers to do the things of which you commanded us.
Lord we cry out to you, please direct our hearts into the Love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
Amen.
Your pain is due to him having too much direct contact with you.
Lexx is correct..GO DARKER...
Cause with each CONTACT your WITHDRAWAL starts all over again..
((((BUGS))))
THIS TOO SHALL PASS...
THE DARKEST HOUR IS JUST BEFORE DAWN...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
It's kind of like when my son was about four years old and walked in the living room towards the front door with a blanket over his head. HE thought he was DARK and that we couldn't see him. DRAC still gets to SEE you because you've only got a blanket over your head at this point.
Time to get even darker and respond ONLY through intermediary and ONLY for life and death matters. All the scheduling stuff, etc. he can figure out for himself. Cause that's what he'd have to do if he REALLY couldn't contact you.
Mimi! Hi there sweetie!
THE DARKEST HOUR IS JUST BEFORE DAWN...
TOO funny that I was just thinking of this EXACT phrase yesterday!! Even when we haven't talked, we are thinking the same things?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />:) Hope you are well!
Meggy,,,,,,
It's kind of like when my son was about four years old and walked in the living room towards the front door with a blanket over his head. HE thought he was DARK and that we couldn't see him. DRAC still gets to SEE you because you've only got a blanket over your head at this point.
Ok, now THAT is funny! Does it make it any better if I graduate from a sheet to a quilt?? he he!! I hear what you are saying!
I did not respond to either of his messages on Friday. No contact at all yesterday and should be none for quite a while. He'll be out of town, as will I most of this coming week. I have set up from Mom & Sis to take care of DD for me, so we're all set.
Mom & I did WAAYY too much work yesterday, and my body hurts today but in a good way. Actually, I think I am hurting more from the 2 bottles of champagne we drank last night! Had some folks over and just sat out on the screened in porch and had a great time. I called DD, but barely got to speak to her, they were at a party and it was too loud for her to hear me. This kind of thing happens a lot when she is with him. It ticks me off, but I don't say anything to her or to Drac about it. Why?
So, another good friend is coming over to see the house today. I gotta go do some pool maintenance. Will ck back later!
Drop off completed w/no problem.
Well, other than I looked out the upstairs window and saw him. He did not see me. He was dressed up - guess it is date night. He hung around for several minutes acting like he was NOT looking at the house, when he really was.
DD told me tonight that she does not want to go with Drac for the holiday weekend. She even cried. So, am thinking I may take kids for the weekend. This would be in line with what the plan says. The only thing is that Drac will have 2 Memorial days in a row as he will get it again next year.
I just hate to see her cry like that. She said again how much she hates us being apart, meaning 'us' as a family. She said Drac told her that this 'can't be fixed', he told her this some time ago.
Well, enough Drac talk.
My friend J came and spent a couple hours just visiting. We went out for lunch. I mowed the lawn and treated the pool, and raked leaves.
DD did try for a bit to ride her bike without her training wheels. She had me put them back on. She was 'embarassed' to have anyome seeing her try to learn to ride. I used to be the same way at her age. Next time I will pull the car out of the garage and work with her in there.
Tomorrow am going to call about getting her in dance and tumbling classes.
BTW - Drac has stopped his auto deposits into DD's savings account. He had been doing for several months and said it was 'child support'. Guess he figures the D will soon be final and he will be paying via ck?
Well, better go pack for my trip.
Morning!
I did not sleep very well last night, but when I did sleep, I dreamed. Unfortunately, I dreamed of Drac. This hasn't happened in a long time. It was not a perfect fantasy dream, but it did involve us starting to talk about recovery being possible and we spent time meeting each others "needs",,,,,.
I guess it was because I saw him out the window yesterday that got my mind to going there again. Sigh,,,,oh well.
So, anyone have any thoughts on my having DD for the holiday weekend? She was adamant about it again this am. I will have to have Drac contacted to confirm this. I am also wanting to register her for dance and gymnastics, so I supposed I'll let him know that in the same message to keep the # of contacts down to a minimumn
Am going to get some work done before heading to the airport. Hope everyone has a GREAT week!
Bugs:
EVERY night is date Night to the Wayward.
Once you get rid of the responsibilities, then let the party begin.
He was hanging around BECAUSE he wanted you to see him.
If there WAS a breakup, he wanted you to be CHECKING HIM OUT.
And about DD? Not wanting to go on the trip?
Good luck with that, you can get into a pretty dramatic fight over it now. DD's tears mean nothing to Drac. She needs to do that with Drac.
That might help.
Others will tell you to fight tooth and nail to keep her from going because "she doesn't want too" I have no qualms with that argument. Just think about which way might in the long run, accomplish your long term goal.
Yes, your DD might be harmed in this proces, but she already has been. The goal in to minimizethe future harm as much as possible.
Otherwise, glad you had a fun weekend. What do you think of pool maintenance? If I could figure out how to keep the grass clippings from going into the pool while mowing the lawn, I would be in much better shape.....
LG
LG,
I have decided to keep DD for the weekend,,, it goes with the "Plan". I do not expect a "fight" about it, but will have to see. If so, then so be it. Not going to worry about it.
Once you get rid of the responsibilities, then let the party begin.
He was hanging around BECAUSE he wanted you to see him.
If there WAS a breakup, he wanted you to be CHECKING HIM OUT.
I just don't "get" that. Why would he want ME checking him out? He doesn't want me,,,,so what's the point? Expecially as he was on his way to another date?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Your mention of no responsibilities is on the mark. The ones he DOES have, he is ignoring. Apparently DSS was left home alone last night. FIL was going to go by to check on him, but he was left to go to bed on his own. UGH!! How selfish! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I am doing ok with the pool maintenance. It got cloudy after a rain, but I have it cleared up!! WHOO HOO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Grass clippings? How about a bagger on the mower? Or blow is AWAY from the pool???? Come on, aren't you manly men supposed to know all about that stuff?? he he! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Best wishes on your trip. I hope that you enjoy yourself and I look forward to hearing from you about it.
You sounds like you are in a great frame of mind!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
What makes you think that he NO LONGER WANTS YOU?
HE trys almost daily to get you to react to him.
He still WANTS you, But you are not letting him HAVE YOU.
The rest is just the process moving along.
And if HO has stepped away, then even forcing the D isn't getting Drac what he really WANTS.
No responsibilities....That was my attraction during my A.
AS for the mower... Too much lawn and not enough bagger... And yes, I BLOW it away from the pool!, but it doesn't always co-operate! And the GRASS is always thickest right next to the apron of the pool....That darn splashing!
LG
Rin,
Hey there! Yes, am feeling OK today and yesterday was pretty good, too! Too bad this trip isn't for "fun", but will be in a training class for 3 days and it's not one that I am enjoying just yet. Had 3 days of it in June which were very hard.
LG,
Well, perhpas Drac wants my attention, but he doesn't want the total package of Bugs, and as you say, the responsibilities of a real R.
Funny, though, like it or not, the responsibilities WILL be catching up with him. They may already be. He's still avoiding them as much as possible, but one can only do that for so long. Of course, he still has the "Blame Bugs for Everything" excuse working for him, too. Wonder if that plan will ever expire?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Ok, I have 2 other words for you on the grass - - "LAWN SERVICE". THEY have to have a BIG BAGGER! OH, the things I could say about having a BIG BAGGER, but won't! he he!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
About this:
"Of course, he still has the "Blame Bugs for Everything" excuse working for him, too. Wonder if that plan will ever expire? "
No. His "Blame the first wife plan" expired when you entered the picture.
LAWN SERVICE?
Had it for 8 years! They never used a bagger.... Big or Little..
Bought a mower to teach DS RESPONSIBILTY....
Take care of machine....
Take Care of Mowing...
Take care of trimming...
etc, etc...
Hasn't worked close to plan, yet!
LG
LG,
Well, I can speak to having a PLAN as well.
Guess who just called????
Wanted to talk about the kids for the weekend.
I asked "Is this an emergency?"
He said "It's about the kids. I don't know if will have time to check my email later and want to be sure I have things planned out for the weekend, that I have it all straight"
Bugs "Is this an emergency?"
Drac "It's about THE KIDS! Bugs, please can't we just be civil and talk about it. It's about the kids"
Bugs "No, I don't need to talk to you unless it is an emergency. I will contact you later on the weekend"
Drac "Bugs, please"
Bugs "Goodbye"
I am shaking right now!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I just don't "get" that. Why would he want ME checking him out? He doesn't want me,,,,so what's the point? Expecially as he was on his way to another date??
Bugs,
Stop trying to apply rational thinking to irrational behavior. It simply doesn't work.
Good for you the way you handled Drac. Now close your eyes, take a deep breath, and try to relax.
LC
Excellent Job on your end of the conversation!
WOW!
How did he get through? Did he sneak attack from an unknown number through work?
Yeah, Bugs, he's *lovin* Plan B....
LC,
Thanks, you are right, I can't apply rational thinking to Drac. Good reminder!
I can't believe I held on to not talking to him! I was totally unprepared for the call,,,,,,,,,,,I almost never answer a call from a number I don't recognize. He always calls from his personal phone, which I know the number. He called from his work cell. With the new cell phone I have, I don't have all of the numbers programmed in, so it did not come up as his work cell. Many of my co-workers have similiar numbers, so I answered.
Perhaps it is a good thing that it happened in that I enforced a boundary!!???!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
He's back to the "Let's be friends. Let's be civil" thing. Apparently he thinks that is how it should be, despite my telling him specifically several times, we will NOT be friends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
UH OH. There I go again! Being Rational! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
So, I will have a message sent later that I will have the kids for the weekend. Should I also include something like "Bugs has been explicit in her letter regarding contact with you. If you are wanting to talk about the future of your marraige with Bugs, let me know and I will advise her so that contact can be made. Otherwise, do not call Bugs unless it is an emergency" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Glad you LISTENED to your daughter...
It must be ABSOLUTELY SCARY for her to be with HIM...
Thankful that you are protecting her as much as possible from his EMOTIONAL ABUSE of her...
Hey Lexxx and Mimi!
Good to hear from you both!!
I don't know what's up with DD being so insistant on being with me for the weekend,,,,,,she hasn't shared anything specific and I don't push her to talk unless she wants to. However, it does make me wonder.
So,,,,,, do I have the Plan B Letter reference included in the communication later today or not??
I think you can text him or E-Mail him and say: I WILL TALK TO YOU WHEN YOU END YOUR AFFAIR FOR LIFE....or something like that..or "END YOUR AFFAIR..then WE can TALK" or "GET RID OF THE HO" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Steve coached me on making such SHORT AND SIMPLE comments when my H was trying to break through...
What you are doing is standing firm on your decision to NOT be a part of the TRIANGLE....
The more he RESPECTS you..the more ATTRACTIVE you are to HIM...
He is loosing SOMEONE SPECIAL...
DRAC: "What was I thinking daring to risk loosing such a GODDESS?"....
Head up..chest high today, BUGSY!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
So, being more specific is better than
"If you want to talk about what is in my ltr, let me know. Otherwise do not call unless it is an emergency" ?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
My thinking is that if I put in the "I will talk to you when you end your affair for life", he will reply that it IS over and then expect us to "be friends" and continue the Divorce. The whole "we'll be friendly divorced parents"
?????
Intermediary to Drac:
Bugs will discuss reconciliation with you, all other communication should follow the process outlined in her letter.
I don't know if will have time to check my email later
Puleez... this was DRAC testing the waters again. Didn't you send him another copy of PB letter?
You did good. I'm with Mimi, respond short and "sweet" through appropriate channels.
Bugs:
I repeat: HE WANTS YOU.
He can't admit that to himself, but HE NEEDS YOU.
SO, he will attempt to break Plan B. Everyday.
What does BUGS DO>>>>Send Plan B Letter.
What does BUGS DO>>>>Send Plan B Letter.
What does BUGS DO>>>>Send Plan B Letter.
If he gets through like he did today...
Bugs: Is it an emergency?
Drac: No..., But...
Bugs: I WILL TALK TO YOU WHEN YOU END YOUR AFFAIR FOR LIFE
And hang up.
LG
If he gets through like he did today...
Bugs: I WILL TALK TO YOU WHEN YOU END YOUR AFFAIR FOR LIFE
And hang up.
So..only IF..he breaks through...
THEN...SHORT and SWEET...
If he says, he's ended the A....THEN...
Talk to him SHORTLY and SWEETLY about the NO CONTACT LETTER...
Thanks everyone!
I DID send the PBL again last week. He would have gotten I Fri or Sat.
So, first the message is simply 'end the affair' and we can then talk?
Then the message is 'send NC letter' and we will Continue' to talk?
Then?? Lexxxy mentioned saying I would talk about reconciliation. Do I mention that now or later. I want to get this right.
Again, am thinking he wants the let's be divorced friends plan.
Thanks!!
So, first the message is simply 'end the affair' and we can then talk?
Then the message is 'send NC letter' and we will Continue' to talk?
This is IT for NOW...
BECOME DARKER THAN NIGHT....
He needs to SUFFER..reach his LOWEST POINT...come to you on his hands and knees, begging and pleading to be with you...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Mimi,
Ok, I got it. Thanks for clarifying. Darkness will be easy with us both out of town. I won't even be in the same city as DD when she talks to him!
we will need to chat here about if/when I get the chance to talk to him about the NC letter! I know I will need lots of coaching to be prepared for that conversation.
Until then, will concentrate on DD, DSS, and work.
Also, I get to make family fun plans for the weekend!
I will let you know if he tries to respond later. Boarding the plane soon.
Drac sent an email before I had the chance to get anything sent to him. It addressed that he had not heard from me, that I refused to talk to him as it was a Non-emergency, his interpretation of last weeks communication, his plan for getting DD and bringing her home, his trip info, how he'd told me earlier he would be gone, which phones will work, how he will not have DD Wed, how I need to have her call him, and info on where DSS is staying this week.
I had message sent to his phone (remember he can not ck email). Said as he plans to have Group B next year, I will have kids this weekend. I will work out DSS's schedule with DSS. That was all
I sent TM direct to his phone.
'I will talk to you when you end your affair for life. Refer to my letter'
That was it.
Oops,, gotta turn off for the flight
Here's his reply
I am sorry that you feel it necessary to text the above to me instead of talk to me, but my personal life is no longer any of your concern, on the other hand the children are and I would wish we could put personal feelings to the side to discuss any issues with them rationally.
Thoughts? He went on re:DSS's practice schedule and how he HAS to be at the practice Mon to be able to play in the first game. He missed practice Sat because Drac overslept!!
Whaaaaaat???
I sent TM direct to his phone.
Why are YOU breaking Plan B?
Why are YOU sending a letter stating no contact then sending him text messages?
Why are you responding about non-emergency issues?
You need to get on board with this quickly, because you are losing all credibility on your boundries.
Yes -- duh -- he does want friendly co-parenting. Thats all he wants right now, because he is either still involved with HO, hoping to get back with HO, or not over HO.
So stop accomdating him. Stop letting him break your boundries.
It is NOT your job to "make" DD call him any day. Get her a damn cell phone and leave it up to him. It wouldn't hurt to get used to the idea that when you are a divorced parent you probably don't get to talk to them every day -- and if you want to, its YOUR own responsibility.
Stop telling him to stop texting you...then texting him. Talk about mixed messages!
Get that online schedule thing going PRONTO.
Then try to do Plan B.
(2x4 over...sorry if it stings...)
Hey, Bugs.
Good job on the reply. Ideally, you wouldn't be seeing any of the poisonous content of his emails (my personal life is no longer . . . .) because that stuff is still contact and will drain you.
Concentrate on being dark. And settle in. This could take a while.
SD,
Yes, it was a risk to peek out into the light like that and I was burned. But, I did have on a bit of sunscreen, ,, in the form of the knowledge I have from MB!
I did not think he was anywhere close to us looking at recovery. I did, though, have a bit of hope that he would confirm it is over between them.
Instead, he took it as ME trying to control HIM. When the truth is I am focused only on controlling myself. He chose to have an A and now to D me. I get to choose to limit my pain by not having direct contact with him.
He does not like my choice. Too bad. I sure didn't like his either!!
I noticed his tracking his email with a read receipt and quoting directly in his email what I sent. Guess he has decided to document everything? For what purpose? Who knows.
We are talking about a man who is going to be away from his kids for more than a week. So what does he do the night before he leaves, he goes OUT and leaves his son alone at home.
If he has any plans on the legal front, he will have a long way to go with that kind of behavior.
I just do not get the whole idea he has that we should be friends.
He has an A for months, lies to me over and over, abandons his family, continues to sleep with me and the OW, tells our kids it is OK to have a GF, tells them we are not M when we are, takes them on trips with her and I AM SUPPOSED TO PUT MY PERSONAL FEELINGS ASIDE TO DISCUSS THE HOLIDAY SCHEDULE REATIONALLY??
Geez he is f'd up!
Sorry for the rant!
Bugs,
It is equally f-d up to expect rational behavior from him, and yet you still do.
No, you are not supposed to put your feelings aside and discuss holiday schedules, you are supposed to have your intermediary do it.
You need to stop getting caught up in his world and his rationalizations, and his manipulations. Plan B is for YOU bugs.
We can explain again why he wants you to be his friend, but I don't think you need us to. I think you get it. But for some reason you are letting him break your boundries and you are getting all caught up in his crap.
Why is Mimi advising Bugs to text, and Lexxxy scolding her for it? I don't get it. I'd be confused.
BUGS:
Lots of stuff thrown around yesterday.
Drac is drowning, and is throwing out lifelines to you to save him.
You really do WANT to save him.
Whats done is done.
Your at a meeting that is going to be difficult enough for you.
And Drac is throwing darts at you, while seeming so "perfectly reasonabale"
"let's be Friends"
Can make it VERY DIFFICULT for you.
And we are all posting seemingly contradictory info....
But Drac never sent you an email, TM or a phone message that wasn't about him breaking down Bugs.
IF in any of that he had even HINTED that he had made some mistakes, and that this could be repaired, it would have been easier to manage for you.
BUT HE DIDN'T.
He's still DRAC.
Plan A is really starting to pinch. And if HO is gone, and even if she isn't, SHE can't give him what Bugs provides.
So Drac is drowning....
In the cesspool he created.
You gave him the path home.
You gave him the lifeboat.
If he pushes it away, and DEMANDS that a bigger, nicer vessel appear to save him, then there is nothing you can do about this.
That's his choice.
I would really rather talk to you about your pool problems....
But Drac really made a concentrated effort to blow you up yesterday.
And just didn't realize how many troops you had on your side.
LG
Why is Mimi advising Bugs to text, and Lexxxy scolding her for it? I don't get it. I'd be confused.
LOL...somebody thought that I REALLY am a GUARDIAN ANGEL and NOT A HUMAN BEING...who makes MISTAKES....
sighing... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
BACK LATER....
I know..excuses, excuses..BUT, I do work for a living and post in the midst of that..and can't keep up with BUGS..and do have my SENIOR MOMENTS...BUT...
I did check back and saw that I told Bugs to respond SHORTLY AND SWEETLY..ONLY..IF HE BREAKS THROUGH..and she proceeded to RESPOND to him FIRST...and he responded with this..
I am sorry that you feel it necessary to text the above to me instead of talk to me, but my personal life is no longer any of your concern, on the other hand the children are and I would wish we could put personal feelings to the side to discuss any issues with them rationally.
Then I started LOL again..cause this is SO RIDICULOUS...for too many reasons for me to even respond to..SO TYPICAL FOR A WS...
ONLY WORDS..IGNORANT, STUPID, INSANE WS WORDS....
IMO, for the WS, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS and his WORDS SHOULD BE IGNORED...
In regards to his ACTIONS, he is trying his darndest to break through PLAN B and to have this HIS WAY..with him EATING CAKE..having BUGS and the HO, too...
I think BUGS is still fine as long as she REMAINS DARK AS NIGHT NOW...
She has A PLAN..he DOES NOT...
As LG says, little does DRAC know that he is BATTLING AN ENTIRE MB ARMY...
I betcha he will continue to try to BREAK THROUGH...
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN HIS IGNORANT WORDS!!!
Bugsy,
He's got you spinning, voluntarily.
Get dark, stay dark. NONE of what you have experienced recently is about recovery, it's all about making DRAC more comfortable, coparenting, nicey nicey. He's trying to throw the guilt trip on you, and you are eating it.
Don't send the PBL again, no reason. Don't respond to him TM's (is someone bleeding, on fire, broken, hurt? NOPE). Get DD a cell phone and let the chips fall ON DRAC. He can pick up the phone and call his daughter. DRAC and DD can work it out themselves, okay, you don't need to help.
All I see is BLAHBETTY BLAH BLAH BLAH. It's crap, rubbish, and means nothing. When he shows up at your door, SHOWING you what he is doing for recovery, then you talk.
Do not fool yourself into thinking that you can TALK him into submission.
All I see is BLAHBETTY BLAH BLAH BLAH.
SL:
That is TOO FUNNY! LOL! What language is that? Is this from a movie that I don't know about?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It was the movie of my life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Oh, it's so strange when you realize that your own FWH did these same things, so WEIRD. All that talk that I could have just ignored or avoided; would have saved me a WORLD of grief...
Oh, it's so strange when you realize that your own FWH did these same things, so WEIRD. All that talk that I could have just ignored or avoided; would have saved me a WORLD of grief...
I also find it strange when I sit here and read what WS's deep in the fog do and say and I remember doing and saying the same thing. YIKES, that is a scary thought and makes me shudder.
I'm picturing the look on my H's face at times when I was "pleading my case" and telling him why it was OK that I talk to FOM. He can trust me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He looked at me like I had 2 heads and that he couldn't comprehend a word I was saying. I can only imagine the only thing he heard was blahbetty, blah, blah, blah. Poor guy. Thankfully I got my sanity back.
Thanks for the laugh this morning.
LC
Hey everyone!
Class is going a bit better than last time. DD is doing fine. Mom says pool looks good!
Oh, the Drac thing? I let it go. He called the cell last night. Left 1 vm, but I deleted. He called 3x in the space if 15 minutes , I guess wanting to talk to DD. She called him from Grandma's phone.
He KNEW I was out of town, too because he got my out of office auto reply yesterday. There was no reason for him to call MY cell other than to try to 'get' to me in some way. Stupid Drac.
Thanks for all of the input! Am feeling much better today. Focused only on the here and now of work!
Love the Blah blah language! Reminds me of the Charlie Brown cartoons when the adults speak,,,all you hear is blah blah blah!
Am missing you having my MB time this week!
Training is going much better this time around. It is a combination of a change in the training AND a change in me. I chose to come in, determined to 'get it', and with the confidence that I could/would 'get it'. I reminded myself of my GREAT qualifications in my job and of my past successes. There is no reason I can't build even more of that for myself. I am totally focused in MY Success both as a professional and as a Mom. Those are my top 2 priorities right now.
Drac asked to have DD tomorrow nite, as he did not get is 'regular' nite with her tonight as he is out of town. Told M to let him know that is OK. Apparently Drac already told DD that would be happening before he even sent the request, as she told me this am. Whatever.
Am letting Sis handle the pick up if he is too late to get her from Latch Key and Sis will be at my house for drop off. I won't be home from the airport yet. Works well for my Total Darkness!
Am taking kids with Sis and BIL camping at the lake for the weekend in their New 31ft camper! Has all of the comforts of home. Should be a lot of fun!
Just tried to call DSS and his phone must be off. He may still be at football practice.
Drac just called MY cell and left vm. Had it listened to - he is claiming #1 his personal cell has died. #2 his work cell suddenly won't send text messages #3 he does not know if I have DD or if she is w/my mom #4 asked to have DD call his work cell.
Anyone buying that it was necessary to call and leave a VM?
Again, whatever. I am dark. Mom has both his #'s.
Am going to business dinner in a few minutes. I hope to catch up on some threads later!
Anyone buying that it was necessary to call and leave a VM?
NOPE...
Of course, he is just being "CIVIL"..not wanting to HEAR YOUR VOICE... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Oh yes, he is Mr Civil, Let's Be Friends.
Mr I have contacted you Every day for how many days now?
What kind of game is he playing now?
Mom had DD call Drac's personal AND business cell phones and left vm, as he did not answer either one. 15 min later, Drac calls DD back from he DEAD PERSONAL phone?!!
OMG! I am sitting here laughing at the ridiculous nature of it all. I don't get it and I don't care right now. His games are his problem, not mine.
I am lying here on my bed. I just finished a very nice meal, including a nice glass of wine. I have a decadent dessert in the room fridge. An early night to sleep. DD is well fed and asleep at home. I left DSS a text message when I could not reach him.
Life is good.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What more could we ask for?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
LMAO
Hey everyone!
I think I started going through MB withdrawls while out of town this week! Missed you all! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I got back last night and spent all of the brief time I had with DD before she had to go to bed and then was really too exhausted to read or post.
I have to tell you that this training class felt a LOT different than the one in June and I have been thinking about WHY that is. We had the same content, just expanded further but this time, I felt like i GOT it. I felt good, I felt smart (instead of stupid & slow), I participated, I felt confident and could SEE the difference in the ways that people reacted to and reacted WTIH me.
What was the difference?
ME!! My attitude. It is as if FINALLY the real true BUGS is back again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Did I think about Drac? Yes, I did. How could I not with him trying to communicate EVERY DAY. But, I wasn't overwhelmed or obsesssed with him every waking moment. Instead, I allowed myself to be me. I truly gave myself 100%, the way I used to in being in the moment and concentrating on what *I* was doing.
Was this my "light bulb" moment of letting Drac go? I don't know yet. I do know I am better and am SO glad!!
Yesterday he sent a message about what time his class was getting over and about picking up DD. I just had it sent to my Sis. SHE called him in the afternoon to finalize the arrangements. I think it took him by surprise.
Of course, he STILL had to send another message later about picking up DSS today for the weekend. I'd already talked to DSS early in the am and had made arrangements with DSS to talk to him last night and finalize the pick up today. Which I did last night while driving home from the airport. We did not need Drac's involvment at all.
I told DSS to bring his life vest and clothes for the lake/camping. He said he'd have to leave Drac a note about what he was "taking". Before thinking, I asked him WHY? He said so that Dad would know where all of the stuff went. WHAT??? Then I remembered DD telling me that she is not "allowed" to bring clothes here that Daddy bought.
What is THAT about?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I recovered with DSS and told him that if a note is necessary, that is just fine and not a problem. WHATEVER. I don't get why Drac would do that to the kids??? But, I won't make a big deal about it to them.
DD was THRILLED to have me home,,, almost as much as I was to BE home! What a GREAT feeling! I haven't heard yet about how drop off went with Sis last night, we didn't talk in front of DD, but Sis said "We'll talk tomorrow", so sounds like something may have gone down. I wondered if Drac would use my absence to try to gain entry to the house and have a look around. Again,,,, WHATEVER.
So, I need to get motivating here for the day. We will be having niece's dogs overnight tonight. DD is SO excited about that. She'd asked if they could swim in the pool with her and I said no. She was disappointed until I told her that she could have them sleep in her room.
I will have to pack tonight for the camping weekend. Also going to try to fit in buying myself a mattress for my room and getting daybed from Mom for DSS. Going to be a busy and fun weekend,,,,, can't wait!
Will definately check back later. Hope all of you are doing well!
Bugs:
Good to see you back.
Drac is being VERY persistant isn't he?
His A needed you to survive.
You have left.
And his A seems to be in trouble.
Please be as dark as possible.
He may have to settle for Ho in his life.
You DO NOT have to settle for DRAC in yours.
You can however, hope for H to return. And to learn about MB.
And then see where that M can go!
LG
Oh Bugs!!
Great update! Wonderful to see you so full of positive energy!
I'd keep resending a copy of the Plan B letter. With a note on top of each one.
"Please stop calling my phone"
"Please stop TM's to my phone"
"Please contact Sis regarding pick-ups"
"Please refer to calendar regarding schedule"
etc. etc. etc.
Please update us when you talk to your sister. He's up to something....trying to get his BUGS fix!
Funny how this stuff works, huh?
Hey guys!
First, I forgot an important part of the update earlier,, The Pool looks GREAT. Water is perfect! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I did talk to Sis. No great shakes on the drop off last night. It is unfortunate that Sis is of the belief that Drac and I should 'be friends' when it comes to the kids. She said he did not come to the door and added that it is 'uncomfortable for DD' that it has to be that way.
I wasn't in the mood to get in to it at the time, but I intend to ask Sis, 'do you thinkj it is 'comfortable' for DD to have to have her daddy have an A and take her around the Ho as if it is normal and ok?'. She does not understand Plan B or MB at all. She thinks I should just accept, move on, and be friendly w/Drac for the sake of the kids. She views me NOT doing that as being deluded un some way --- I should say it 'appears' that is what she thinks, she did not say that to me.
However, with some commentary on her part to let me know where she stands, she does overall support me in the way that I request and that is enough for me right now. She just cares and believes what she believes. I do not fault her for it, but find it frustrating sometimes.
I will have to come back and share a funny story in a bit,,,,one od Drac's counterparts shared with me earlier.
Hi, Bugs,
I've been following your thread, although I don't post much on MB anymore.
I really agree that you need to be totally dark...not so much as a glimmer of light showing...and that goes for YOU as well as Drac.
So...your intermediary does NOT need to discuss anything about Drac with you other than the necessary information about the kids. You do not need to examine his actions in any way...whether he comes to the door or not, anything he says other than "I'll pick up DD at such-and-such a time" yada, yada... You need to know absolutely NOTHING about his life or actions. PERIOD.
Your intermediary also does not need to discuss ANYTHING regarding YOU with Drac. All he needs to know is that Bugs will have DD ready at such-and-such a tiem or that Bugs will pick up DSS at such-and-such a time. He needs to know absolutely NOTHING about your life or actions. PERIOD.
Any glimpses into your life may serve to convince him that you are still sitting around, pining over him. He needs to get over that notion, and total darkness is the only way.
Any glimpses into HIS life only serve to hinder your moving on and may drain your love bank faster.
Lady,
It is so ironic you brought up that subject, as I was just having that discussion! The less I know, the BETTER if feel. The less I know, the better I am at focusing on Me, my stuff, and the kids.
Even with the bits of info this week, less info since the move has done me a world of good. So, darker is certainly better. Sealing up the pin holes of light with me pitch black tar today! Thanks!
Yep -- Just think of how exhilarated you felt this week while you were COMPLETELY out of his reach!
Let's get that feeling going every day!
Have a great time this weekend! It sounds like a lot of fun!
We are in total agreement to stay on the positive roll AND what it takes to do that. Being Dark.
On another good notes, was surprised to end up sitting on the plane next to a guy who used to work at my company! Have not seen him in years. It was a VERY pleasant conversation the entire ride home.
Is it wrong to say that I am pretty sure he wants to ask me out?
We had NO inappropriate conversation or anything like that. He was aware thru the 'grapevine' of my sitch. I made it clear what my stance is, but I had that definate feeling that he would like to consider himself a future 'prospect' if/when the time comes.
Don't get me wrong - I am in no way saying I want to date anyone. It does feel good, though, to think I'd have a prospect or 2. Ego boost if ya know what I mean.
I have done a much better job of keeping Drac out of my thoughts minute by minute. Is that why I am dreaming about him every night?
Bugs;
When your needs have been neglected it is a HUGE LB deposit to get that admiration need met!
You've got a good head on your shoulders -- so I don't worry about you heading down the A path.
But don't you just SEE how so many BS's find themselves in affairs at this particular point? It would be so easy to justify it.
The divorce is in the works...
you start talking yourself into the marriage virtually over...
the WS isn't doing anything that looks like reconciliation...
Then someone comes along admiring you, wanting to date you and BAM -- affair started.
Then of course WS wants to come back....
Lexxx,
Oh I can TOTALLY see the BS getting into an A, which is why I am trying very hard to stay aware of my vunerability.
As you say, no deposits in the Love Bank, thinking the D is a done deal, WS giving no signs of ever coming back,,,
AND
Society, for the most part, says it's OK! Outside of MB, I can name the people IRL that would call me on it and believe it to be wrong! How sad is that?
Even after the D, it will be a long, long time before I would even consider going on a date.
Hey Bugs,
Sorry, haven't stopped in to check and see how things are going lately with my own drama.
I'll read up on the latest but I am sure you are still doing MAH-VE-LOUS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Keep up the good work, Bugs. You're doing really well.
And you're right, the less you know about what he's doing, the easier it will be for you.
Hey Guys!
Thanks for stopping by to say hi! I need to catch up with both of you on your stich! I know from what little I have been able to read, you are both dealing with a lot of stuff right now
Try to take the weekend and make it a 'No Worries' weekend. That is what I am going to do!
Sit back, relax, and watch the clouds drift by.
I KNOW I am feeling better because even a big work crisis isn't getting to me today! I keep telling everyone - Hey, it is a No Worries Weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well I went to pick up DSS from his Aunt & Uncle's house this afternoon. It was nice to see them. He had forgotten to bring his life jacket, so we had to go to the house.
I made a BIG mistake. I went in the house. WHAT A MESS! He complained about how it was HORRIBLE living with FIL because of the way he "keeps house". Well OUR house now looks just as bad. He's done NOTHING but come in and throw down piles of stuff everywhere.
I didn't take notice of every little detail, but did notice that although he moved the bottle of wine labeled for our wedding, he atleast didn't throw it in the trash. Same for the pictures I left around.
I realized my error almost as soon as I walked in, so I quickly had DSS get his stuff and got outta there. Atleast there were no signs of the HO.
For some reason, Drac was insistant with DSS that he call Drac AS SOON AS I picked him him from the Aunt's. He'd told DSS that we would need to figure out a way to meet up with him to get DSS some meds, as he is almost out. I told DSS to wait to call Drac, as I still needed to go back by the office and we'd need to see what my sitch was first before we could make any arranagements with Drac.
Well, apparently Drac stopped by the Aunt's house shortly after I'd picked him up. He called DSS right away wanting to know WHY he hadn't called and WHY we had to go by the house. Obviously NOT happy that I was there. I'll be honest, that made me smile just a little bit. Maybe now he can understand how it feels to have someone in your house like he did to me! Is that evil?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Anyway, he starts giving DSS a tough time about meeting up with us, wanting to know EXACTLY where we were. I told DSS, Dad can drop off your meds at my office, at my house, or you can get them when you go home Monday. I already KNEW that I had plenty of meds for him at my house, so this was NOT an issue. Drac apparently continued to give him a hard time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when I am sure the fact is Drac was upset with ME. Either Drac hung up or the call dropped, I'm not sure.
In a very nice, relaxed way, I explained to DSS that Drac was making this harder than it needed to be. DSS & I had just had a similar conversation. Life doesn't have to be complicated all of the time if we just step back and look at the most simple of solutions. I told DSS,,,, "Hey, it's no big deal where we are exactly right now. Your Dad knows where my office is. He knows where my house is. He can #1. drop your meds at the office #2. Drop them at my house or #3 you can get the meds Mon when I take you home. No big deal! ok?"
He seemed upset with the dropped call, so as soon as he had signal again, I told him it was ok to call Drac again. No more talk about the meds went on. From what I gathered, he was back in the area of the house and expected ME to accomodate meeting up with him under the guise of DSS needing his meds.
NOPE. Not necessary. Of course, I am sure he's 'documented' how I was uncooperative in making sure DSS had his meds and am a Bad Mom, hoping he will be able to use that against me in some way down the road. He's really into documenting things he thinks he can use from my Plan B actions,,,,,. But I have a question. Do you think it's because he wants to use it later legally OR is it just that he's mad that he's not getting to me any more? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
My A called today, as well. Seems Drac had his A send a fax earlier this week about having a "problem" over the holiday weekend. My A didn't call me when she got it, as she figured I'd call her if it was a problem and realized today that it was the holiday weekend and she hadn't heard from me. Kind of funny actually. I told her it was worked out,,,,, No Worries, remember? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
She's working on the final paperwork,,,, several things that Drac's A put in aren't really worded right, are not in the "spirit" of the verbal agreement, and others are "sneaky" little changes. She's going to address them next week with Drac's A. Obviously, though, he's moving forward as quickly as possible to finish up, as he has provided almost everything required of him to get it completed. That makes me sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
Don't worry about the big D. You are much better now. You are happy, don't lose your focus.
Just because the D is finalized doesn't mean that the Lord can't lead him back home.
Maybe it would be for the better, where you could have a new anniversary to remember.
Read Matthew chapter 19.
Sorry I've not posted. Dr. thinks I've had some mini strokes. The computer gives me major headaches right now.
Take care and know that I'm praying for you.
The kids and I had a GREAT weekend. Tons of fun was had by all.
We ended up in camping spots next to old friend of Sis & BIL, so we had a nice group, including other kids. Both DD & DSS made new friends. DSS even got up on the knee board this weekend for the first time and did GREAT! DD "drove" the boat, too! She & I rode a tube all around the lake & only stopped because MY arms were tired! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Drac left vm this afternoon wanting to know about DSS , , was I dropping him off for practice. He already KNEW that was the case. Whatever.
I dropped DSS off for practice, DD & I went to see baby cousin D for about 30 minutes and headed home. While on the way I got TM from Drac,,,,, "at practice, don't see DSS"
I did not reply
ABout 20 minutes later, another tm "Sent TM and left VM on your other #. Don't see DSS Is he wearing white or blue jersey?"
I did not answer. As DD and I were walking in the door, the phone rang & it was him. Did not answer because arms were full. DD called right back and got vm.
There was a VM left,,,, I played it, thinking it was for DD. NOPE. A NASTY vm for ME.
Said there is a problem with his PERSONAL cell phone. That we have to "communicate" (snide voice here) via his work phone.
Hmmmm, wasn't it just the other day his work phone would not send a tm?? Hmmmmm every message this evening was on his PERSONAL phone?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Anyway, he got really rude that he "Finally" had DSS. He went to the same field he always had gone to and that he did not know that DSS was practicing at the other field tonight. Then says "I know you are mad at ME, but we HAVE TO COMMUNICATE FOR THE SAKE OF OUR CHILDREN & YOU NEED TO GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I am pretty upset right now, but not as much as in the past. Frankly, I only want to "communicate" with him to tell him that I am not MAD at him. My not "communicating" with him has nothing to do with being MAD AT HIM at this point in time. It is because I don't WANT anything to do with a POS like him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
He was THERE. I was driving in my care 70 miles away from there. Could he not walk up and ASK someone??? Why is this MY fault? DSS practiced there on Friday as well. Drac would have known that if HE had taken care of getting him to practice instead of pawning DSS off on someone else all the night before and all day on Friday! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
UGGGHHH! A Perfect weekend now has a black mark on the end of it. [censored]!
DD left him a VM. Do you think he's bothered to call her back?? Why is that??
Bugs:
Good for ignoring him. Stay dark and refocus your thoughts. The fact that he is persistent shows that you are breaking him.
You have to maintain control for them to break, and you are doing a fine job.
He does not want to call DD because he thinks he's hurting you and getting back at you for not answering him.
You must realize that when they are in this fog, mind games is the only game they know how to play.
This is when the serenity prayer comes into effect.
"God grant me the serenety to accept the things I can not change."
We can not change our husbands. God can. When he upsets you like this, sing a hymn and refocus on Christ. Then feel God's love envelope you.
You are doing great. Don't worry. God will handle him.
This is ALL his DOING.
Don't let him WIN and get to you.
If he had not chosen this none of this would be happening.
Simply LET IT GO..Tutn on some nice soothing music...and say to yourself...just like you did..
WHATEVER...
You're fine, your children are fine...
LET HIM SUFFER IN HIS OWN MESS....
Shows how dependent he is on you to MANAGE things and he wants you to continue to play that ROLE...
DON'T HELP HIM OUT OR IN ANYWAY FEEL OBLIGATED TO DO SO....
This is ALL his DOING.
Yes, it is. Funny, though, he has processed it to be MY doing because I am "mad" at him. *IF* that were the case, truly, how weak would that really make me. If I were merely "mad" at him, I have news for him, it would look a whole lot different than just not talking to him. He would learn a whole different meaning to the term "Love Buster" he he!!
I put DD to bed and am quietly finishing my Dairy Queen Blizzard! Talk about SOOTHING!!
I was thinking about how he now loves to create little tempests in teapots these days. No HO around gives him too much time on his hands. Lord knows he doesn't want to focus on anything like looking at himself VS figuring out new ways to blame me for whatever negative is going on in his life. Wonder how long he'll hold this against me. He is really BIG on grudges. If he perceives someone as having "done him wrong" or worse yet, "done his children wrong", the are on the SH*T list forever.
Which, I find totally too funny,,,,,,,,,,,,as if my not "fixing this for him" or any of the other perceived wrongs I've done somehow are so much worse than Adultery. As Rin would say, LMAO!!
Need to go switch out the laundry and finish this icecream before it melts.
Thanks for the support!
Then says "I know you are mad at ME, but we HAVE TO COMMUNICATE FOR THE SAKE OF OUR CHILDREN & YOU NEED TO GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Don't let this get to you. If he can't stop screwing OW for the sake of the children, then you don't have to give in to his manipulations for the sake of the children. Just ignore this obvious attempt at manipulating and getting a rise out of you. Whenever he says "for the sake of the children" think "then stop screwing OW."
Consequences suck, huh?
I hope for your sake he learns to manage his schedule.
Have you got that calendar up and running?
He is trying to use anger to manipulate you into communicating with him. Silly WH.
Keep ignoring him.
LMAO...Silly WS...tricks are for kids!!!LMAO
GO BUGS!!!
What more can I say, you are doing great! You know you are doing great! let him do HIS thing!
Consequences DOOOO suck...POWS will be feelings more of them REALLLLLL Soon!
Let them rot in the [email]cr@p[/email] burger that they made! Hope it taste good! LMAO
Have a great day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I talked to M, she said Drac sent an email this afternoon - again just saying how we have to communicate "for the sake of the children".
Yes, the calendar is up and running. I gave DSS a printed copy before having Drac told how to access & am sure that his email included something about sending messages through the kids. That's one of his favorites.
I resisted all day the urge to write to Drac EXACTLY what I really want to say to him. I did type it out though and was going to post but could not get logged on at work.
This is what I wrote -
"Let me clarify some things for you. It is no longer my responsibility to take care of every detail of life. You set up for DSS to play football. I would think that you would be involved enough to know when, where, how long, etc. all of his activities are scheduled. He practiced at the other field on Friday, which I expected you to have known. A simple question to the coaches at the field would have given you the information that his squad was at the other field. You were THERE. I was driving 50+miles away. I got your vm messages at 8:06, at which time you had DSS.
My desire not to ineract with you unless it is of necessity is not because I am "mad at you". I have chosen to move on with my life, which does not include you and all of the negatives that go along with that. You stated many times your desire for me to move on, so let me do so.
You chose to "move on" long ago and in your own way. My life is now mine. Who I choose to have in my life and to what degree they are in my life is also my choice. I choose not to include people who claim to care, but then lie to my face. I choose only to include people whose actions show that they care and who keep their promises. I choose to include people who aren't afraid of looking in the mirror at themselves and admitting they were wrong, who will apologize for their mistakes and work to correct them. I choose people who help teach my children good values, not those that tell them lies to accomodate and hide their own wrong doing, and who do not expose them to improper moral values.
I have plenty enough going on without having to worry about anything or anyone outside of those of my choosing. Nor do I have the time, patience or energy for playing games.
It is not necessary for us to "talk" about every little detail regarding the kids. You have the schedule, so I expect that there shoudl be very few, if any, questions or need for us to "communicate" unless there is an emergency of some sort."
Now, I am VERY glad I did not send that to him, but it sure made me feel better to have written it out for myself!
I did not respond in any way. It wasn't easy. I felt a great tug to "explain" things to him, but resisted.
I know he thinks that I am not speaking to him as a way to manipulate/control him, which he will resist til the good Lord returns to this earth. I have to admit, I question this myself. Isn't this really manipulation? I could expound on that, but have a feeling you all have a way for me to look at this that makes sense, so I will await your replies before going further down that path of thinking.
I guess I am just questioning right now how anything I am doing is accomplishing anything in regards to my relationship with Drac. I know I may be "buying in" to what he is telling me, but it seems that I am only giving him more "reasons" to fuel his negative thoughts/impression of me.
I guess it's just because this is so hard for me. I don't feel depressed, but just tired and sad. I just don't see any hope of him making a change. I said this morning that I'd really like a transfer to another planet.
I just don't see any hope of him making a change
Bugs,
Plan B is not about getting Drac to change. It's about you and you detaching to protect you. Drac will either get it or he will not. If he gets it and you still have some love reserved for him then great. If he doesn't then by the time you are finished with plan B you will find it a lot easier to let go, move on and begin and new and wonderful life while wayward Drac keeps rolling down the toilet bowl of life.
H&P,
I know you are exactly right about the purpose of Plan B, I get lost sometimes in the hope that he will change, not that I think I CAN change him.
If he doesn't then by the time you are finished with plan B you will find it a lot easier to let go, move on and begin and new and wonderful life while wayward Drac keeps rolling down the toilet bowl of life.
This is the thing, isn't it? When to be finished with Plan B.
I love that I've made great changes in my life. I love the new home I am making for myself & DD, and DSS when he's here. I love that I've remembered who/what I am and that I am special. I love that I continue on a new daily walk with God. I love that I do trust in Him to take care of my every need and to rely on Him. I love being close to my family. I love that there are good things in my mind for the future.
I HATE dealing with Drac in any way. I HATE what he has done and what he continues to do. I am just really sick and tired of it all. I just want him to go away quietly.
If someday the H that I knew would show up at the door, then I might open it and invite him in. Til then I just want to forget about him completely. Too bad real life doesn't work that way!
ALL of my ASSUMPTIONS about my H were WRONG...
You can't possibly know what he is REALLY thinking and what is REALLY going on with him...
There's still way too much contact. Too much of your knowledge of him..awareness of his ragess..
If this continues, your LOVEBANK will deplete...
A major purpose of PLAN B is to prevent what is going on with you NOW from happening...
ALL SHOULD GO THROUGH THE MEDIATOR..
You need to put safeguards and WALLS for yourself in place, Bugs...
Remember: It's best to PRETEND that he doesn not exist...
I've brought over here an old post of mine from a couple of years ago that Pep had posted on the NOTABLE POSTS THREAD. A lot of it includes what I wanted to say to you tonight.
------------------------------------------------------------
It's almost 3 years since my D-DAY and what a D-DAY it was. Driving down the hotel strip in my town on New Years Eve, I see my H's car and the OW's car parked..seems like the only cars in the parking lot...the desk person MIRACULOUSLY tells me his room number..I knock on the door and he answers in his boxers,saying "I'M ENDING IT RIGHT NOW"...OH WHAT A NIGHT!...I proceed to my car and call everyone I can think of..his best friends... OW calls me on my cellphone and asks me: "Who are you the GD FBI?"(to give you a flavor of her)-guess I ruined her night of fun because my H left her there in the hotel room and so the PROCESS begins....PLAN A..FALSE RECOVERIES...PLAN B...REAL RECOVERY for 2 Years.... This may be more information than you need to know...
I wanted to share this morning because I am coming to a place of putting a lot of this behind me. It is painful to recall those events now (my body began to shake as I typed it) and I really don't have to play that out again much anymore.
My H is genuinely dear to me now. I have had the sweetest and most wonderful weekend with him. He has definitely chosen me. He has filled my life with such pleasant memories over the past two years that, even if something else happens, I feel blessed for having had this special time with him.
In the midst of this weekend, I've been lurking and reading about your trials. These are thoughts that I want to share with you before I get to the point of FORGETTING THE TRAUMAS THAT I EXPERIENCED... My FWH is wiping the pain away...Most importantly, I am becoming STRONG enough in my PERSONAL RECOVERY to not allow those past traumas and memories to intrude and rob me of EXPERIENCING TRUE JOY in my life.
DO NOT GIVE UP HOPE I held on to HOPE AND FAITH for dear life. This was the main thing that kept me going. If not hope for your marriage, maintain hope and faith in your spirit, in your soul, for your own well-being. I turned to MY GOD, to MY PERSONAL SAVIOUR in the midnight hours and constantly and regularly received PERSONAL TOUCHES and MESSAGES from the HOLY SPIRIT. Even if you do not share my religious beliefs, do whatever it takes to remain focused on the LIGHT and not the DARK....DO NOT LET ANYONE ROB YOU OF YOUR HOPE AND FAITH...that is the GOAL OF THE ENEMY....
VIEW THIS AS A SERIES OF BATTLES See yourself as a soldier in a war..a fight for yourself..a fight for your marriage..a fight against the forces of evil...Given your hope and faith (discussed above), BELIEVE that you will be victorious and conquer the ENEMY..ONE BATTLE AT A TIME....
VIEW YOUR WS AS BEING DRUG-ADDICTED My FWH was just as bad, lost,desperate, craved, nasty, smelly as any meth or cocaine addict...This is not a contest that anyone wants to win. But, I bet that I can top any story that the WSes are discussing on the boards lately... At some point in all of this, my FWH was emotionally abusive, at times physically abusive, abandoned me, abandoned his children...all of the above and worse than I can possibly believe at this point...he seemed POSSESSED and EVIL....A MONSTER, at times.. Now I look at him after FULL WITHDRAWAL and his OWN INSISTENCE on USING EXTREME PRECAUTIONS and I can't BELIEVE WHAT I SEE... He is truly the SWEETEST, KINDEST PERSON to me.. For two full years, I have waited for that MONSTER to return.. Early on, their were daily glimpses but as each day goes by he comes closer and closer to being his former self or even better....HE HAS DEFINITELY CHANGED...
LEARN STRATEGIES TO INSULATE YOURSELF FROM THE MONSTER WHO IS NOT REALLY YOUR SPOUSE It's like I learned to enclose myself in a cocoon that he could not penetrate. I would come on here to vent. I would retreat to the bathroom. I would go on LONG DRIVES in my car. It was important not to be swept up into HIS EVILNESS..INTO HIS CRAZY WORLD...That would have legitimized his craziness.. Of course, the eventual PLAN B is perfect sanctuary....
CONTINUE TO EXPOSE... This so freeing..Tell everybody you know. You are in the RIGHT. He is in the WRONG. This is an essential battle strategy. This will get back to one of them and they will continually BE SHAMED. Don't believe that others are supportive of what they are doing...I had fantasies of fencing them in her house so they wouldn't want to come out. This turned out to be truer than I believed at the time. They took back roads and snuck around town while I took the main roads and let everybody know what my H was doing...
A few more thoughts....
LET YOUR WAYWARD SPOUSE GO....FOCUS ON YOURSELF...I really got this after reading LOVE MUST BE TOUGH by DOBSON although this was pounded into me by others...I came to accept that there was no amount of crying, pleading, explaining, questioning or PLAN Aing that I could do to make my H stop his A..He had to eventually choose to break up with her on his own...He had to be ready...
HE HAD TO HIT HIS BOTTOM This was the reason for the false recoveries..He came back before he was ready..He came back before he had scraped the very bottom of the barrel..He had to come face to face with all that he was losing..He had to come face to face with who the OW REALLY WAS... This is what can happen in PLAN B...
Another one of my thoughts:
When you fail or make a mistake, get right back up on the horse...get back into the battle....
Hey Everyone!
It's been a couple of days and seems like longer since I've posted. 2 reasons for that #1. Really busy #2. Unable to post now except at home.
I have just a few minutes left before taking DD to her first dance class tonight.
First, Mimi, thanks for the above post. I've read it over several times. I've been in a very reflective mood these last couple of days. Not Bad, just reflective. It occured to me that it was 1 year ago this month that Drac changed jobs and met the Ho. How time has flown!
I did write what I was going to post over the last couple of days, but have decided to condense it down. Suffice it to say that I've been thinking about the balancing of letting go and still keeping the hope alive to recover my M. Settling into my OWN home is really helping me with getting on with keeping the focus on me and DD, with DSS as much as possible. Being out of our marital home is a good thing. It's helping me to let go.
Since the move, I have also accomplished so much more at work and am feeling better about being there as well. It's been a long time since I've been able to put in good, full, solid working days VS always stressing in some way, shape or form about Drac.
Are you all sitting there nodding your heads,,,,,, Asking the big question "Is she truly starting to see the light in the darkness?"
I had a talk with M the other night about not wanting or needing to know about every attempt by Drac to make contact. If he emails her directly, she only should pass on what I NEED to know. Nothing more. So, we are calling this being on the "Need to Know Basis".
The fact that he has attempted contact in some way shape or form 19 of the last 22 days is TOO much information. So, Ok, you can all say it out loud "She's finally Getting it!"
Drac still thinks that we should communicate directly, but I am just sending on this direct emails without reading them and having M respond if necessary.
Yesterday were 2 emails and 2 TMs. One of the emails was about him putting my car insurance card in DD's backpack last night. Hmmmmmm, isn't that like sending messages through the kids?? LOL!!! The other email was about a dentist appt, which I had a reply sent.
This morning he sent a picture of DSS in his football jersey as tonight is DSS's first game! I talked to DSS last night to wish him luck and tell him I am sorry I can't be there. He's really excited! He admitted he's also scared. I reassured him it's all good, the excitement and being scared. Soon he's going to crave those feelings all of the time as he gets more comfortable playing.
Gotta run for now, will finish up after DD's class!
Hmm...being as DSS is not your bio child, I'm not sure what to tell you about the pic being sent to you.
I was an intermediary for a time to a couple who are in recovery right now. At one point, the WS tried to send pics of the kids to the BS through me. I responded with something like: "Great pics, but I'm not forwarding them on. It's best that you save them for recovery, when you can share all the pics you want."
It's just another way to keep his toe in the door, Bugs, even though I know you want the pic.
Actually, you can still have the picture...later, if you just forwarded the email on to your sister.
Right now, you need to be even darker. Why not have your mail automatically forwarded to your intermediary? The way it is, IMO, is too tempting for you to take a peek.
LC,
I am going to try to write a rule today to do the auto forward, thanks! I had previously only thought of blocking, which I can't do.
Speaking of tempting to take a peek. Yesterday there was one that he sent, which I could tell just from the subject line what it was. He's sent a link to a news website on an article about a political issue he knows I am interested in. WTH??
There have only been 2 emails of any "personal" nature initiated by him since he moved out 10 months ago. What's up with this?
OOOPPS!! Scratch that. Let me revise what I just wrote. Some UNKNOWN person sent me an email about a political issue that I am interested in. Isn't that strange?
Now, back to MY life and what's important. Tonight am working a bit later and then having a couple of girlfriends over. DD is with Drac for the weekend.
Tomorrow, going to get the daybed and desk from Mom's house and buy myself a mattress set! Time to get MY room in order at the new house.
Saturday night is a bday party for a friend I was not "allowed" to see while married to Drac. I am really looking forward to seeing that entire group of friends that I have not seen in years.
Oh, I had my hair cut the other night and let my hairdresser choose the cut. MISTAKE. I don't like it but am giving it a few days before I call her and have her "fix" it somehow! UGH! I feel like I've lost a few Goddess Points with it, but will get them back. LOL!
Bugs:
19 for 22?
I guess today will be 20 for 23.
He needs you back in his life. And maybe, just maybe, he will start to see that he made a choice that he can recover from, if he acts soon.
The ship has sailed, and there is only so much gas in the tank of the small boat to catch up.
((Bugs))
LG
Bugs:
When you talk, I see doubt in your email. Satan is the ruler of doubt.
Please visit the site
www.rejoiceministries.comThat is a pastor and his wife who did divorce and because of her steadfastness in praying for her husband, God led him home. This has happened to many many more.
To keep the faith and hope, you must read the bible daily and pray for him. Get others to fast with you as you pray. If you want to let me know what day and I will fast with you. You can do an entire day or a meal.
I have done this many many times. I see how God is helping in my relationship. My WH keeps going out on dates with people on the online dating services. I have seen 3 people so far dump him. God works in mysterious ways, and we can't always see that mountain that he's moving.
Remember, you are a child of God, and God like to provide all our needs. He expects you to get on your knees and beg him for it, to cry out to him, and to completely trust and depend on him to work this battle through for you.
You can plan B all you want, and yes I agree that to a point it works, but if it is not God's will for your life it will not make a differnce. Your best plan is to get your life in sync with HIS will.
Learn to be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger. Learn to completely trust in the Lord, and Learn to Listen to God speaking to you.
Remember Satan likes to find us in the H.A.L.T. position.
If we grow to Hungy, to Angry, to Lazy or to Tired with the word of God then Satan steps in to try to win us over.
If you are focusing on getting your marriage back, then the focus is wrong. Focus on your goal of growing closer to God. When I start to feel the doubt, I pray and ask god to remind me that he is working in my relationship some way.
The last time I did this, I passed by a church that normally has daily scripture readings on the board. THis time it said that the invisible battles will be won. I know that was God speaking to me. And I immediately said thank you LORD !!!!
If you give up, then you are giving in to Satan. He wants you to give up on the marriage, He wants you to completly let go, and to quit praying for your WH. God wants you to do as it says in Romans 8: 24 and 25
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
and then Romans Chapter 12
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.We must get up every day and dedicate our lives and renew our minds to God in order to fulfil his Will.
love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Don't cling to the marriage, but cling to God, "All things are possible through Christ our Lord"
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; God gives us the hope, because he can restore your marriage. Be patient in this time of trial, and continue to pray. Pray that the blinders satan has on drac might be lifted so that he might be released from the fog. Pray that his ears might be opened and that the Lord might call loud enough for him to hear.
Pray that the temptations might be removed away from Drac and that the Lord Might Break Drac.
God hates divorce and in Matthew 19 it says that the only way God allows divorce is if someone's heart has become hardened. So get on your knees and scream out, cry out to the Lord to SOFTEN dracs heart !!!
God does not see divorce papers as a divorce. He recognizes commitments. God will bring him home. Be patient with GOD. Timing in heaven is different then the timing here. God needs to prepare you for Dracs homecoming. Allow him to do so. Let him transform you, so that when Drac does come home you are not tempted to the other side.
Dear heavenly father, I just pray for Bugs right now along with any other women standing for their marriages. Strenghten their faith in you lord. Give them the strength, patience and endurance needed to withstand waiting and praying for their wayward spouses to come home. Help soften the Wayward spouses hearts lord. Let us become the soldiers of Christ that you want us to be, so that we might be able to minister to others in the same situations. Lord we know you love us. We know that you are as upset about our situations as we are. Lord, you are the almighty shepherd, and our spouses are lost sheep. Satan has lured them away with his deceptions. Lord break our spouses, soften their hearts, remove the blinders from their eyes and most importantly lord, please lead our lost spouses back to your kingdom and back into our homes. We love our husbands lord, and we know that we can forgive them, because you have shown us true forgiveness by shedding the blood of Jesus on the cross for us. We realize lord, that there are none that are righteous, no not one. Please deliver us from our sins, and help us build our marriages on the foundation of Christ, so that our families might be a true testament to the Word of God.
Thank you for moving the mountain of problems within our marriages lord. Although we can not see it being moved, we know that you love reconciliation, and we fully believe that you will lead our lost home to us. In the mighty name of Jesus we thank you. Amen.
Good morning All!
I have been busy, but also just taking a posting break as I just haven't had a lot to say. Have been reflective these past few days.
Not depressed - Not necessarily giving up (but I can see where you would read that in my posts, INeed), just pondering where I am, how I feel, and where I am going.
I believe I am at that place of figuring out for ME what the difference is between giving up and letting go.
When you talk, I see doubt in your email. Satan is the ruler of doubt.
You are right on the mark here, and it's one thing I was reminded of earlier this week and took a stand on.
Remember, you are a child of God, and God like to provide all our needs. He expects you to get on your knees and beg him for it, to cry out to him, and to completely trust and depend on him to work this battle through for you.
You can plan B all you want, and yes I agree that to a point it works, but if it is not God's will for your life it will not make a differnce. Your best plan is to get your life in sync with HIS will.
THIS is what I have been clinging to. Not so much telling God that all I want is to have my marriage restored, but asking him to merely show me where HE wants me to be and for him to guide my life. Of course my prayers to include asking for the restoration of my marriage IF that is what He wants for me,,,, which I believe is what He does want. However, it is up to Him to make it happen, not me.
In terms of letting go, I think I'm really getting there. No messages or attempts by Drac since Thurs. and I haven't been thinking about that non-stop. I talked to DD last night, apparently he left the kids with his Mom yesterday and overnight last night. I went to a birthday party and while it occurred to me that I COULD drive by the Ho's house to see if he was there (which I am sure he was), it was a more fleeting thought. A small part of me wanted to at first, but the rest of me jumped in and said "WHY? Just let it go. What difference does it make right now WHERE he is or WHAT he is doing?" Instead I came home got a decent night's sleep,,,, even slept in late! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I need to run right now,,,,,bro, mom & I are bringing over 2 desks (1 for work and 1 for home), so I can quit laying on the floor while posting! LOL! Then we are picking up my new mattress! I'll get to sleep in my bed for the first time in 3 weeks! WHOO HOO!!
I will check back later.
Satan believes if he can corner you and pressure you with his vile, sinful suggestion, then there is a chance you may becaome so discouraged and fearful that you will want to give up. The entire time he is pushing to achieve this goal, he uses extreme tactics of warefare to separate you from God- from the blessings of living in the light of His love and from the love of friends and family.
When your life is focused only in one direction, toward God, HE will guide you safely across the emotional battlefield. Therefore, when you feel as though your resolve is about to give way, remember Paul’s words to the Corinthians: “No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it” (1 Cor. 10:13)
We can fight the enemy, but unless we understand the power that has been given to us through Jesus Christ, we will suffer loss. Paul wrote, “The weapons of our warefare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses” (2 Cor. 10:4) When you understand the infinate strengh that is available to you through Jesus Christ, you will gain a sense of empowerment that will help you detect the snares and traps of the enemy.
Trust God and KNOW HE WILL HELP YOU. The apostle Peter wrote, “Be of sober spirit, be on alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethern whoo are in the world.” (1 Peter 5:8-9)
Be strong in the Lord and in the strength of HIS might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done EVERYTHING to stand firm. (Eph. 6:10-13)
Remember you are not alone. The disciples forgot this one simple truth and detonated a landmine of fear. Out on the open sea of Galilee with storm clouds gathering, they became fearful. Their eyes were set on their physical surroundings. Instead of recalling the promises of God, they cried out believing their lives were about to end. So many times we immediately think, Oh no ! What if this happens ? What will I do ? We cave into fear, but nothing touches our lives unless it has passed through the hands of God, the mighty hands of the omnipotent God, who only has OUR BEST INTEREST in mind.
God wants us to remember that HE is with us and will give us the wistdom we need for every situation if we will stop and pray. God has an answer for our every need. But far too often we become paralyzed by our circumstances because we do not call out to the Person who lives inside us.
Storms will come. The winds that blow against your life may feel threatening. There is never a moment when you are outside of GOD’s care. “We are never alone or without the strength and guidance to navigate EVERY situation victoriously.” (Psalm 18:32). The comforter, God’s Spirit lives within us, and HE has promised to come to our aid, stand beside us in times of trial and difficulty, and be our eternal Counselor.
HI, BUGS, just stopping by...How's my girl today? DId you enjoy that pool this weekend?
I enjoyed my friend's yesterday!!! The boy's and I had a blast!
Hope you have a great day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Hey Rin!
I did get in the pool a bit yesterday,,, mostly cleaning but a bit of relaxing before DD came home.
Sounds like you had a great day at the pool w/the boys!
INeed, I always get a lot from your posts. Thanks much. I listened to a great teaching cd on the way home tonight too. It just came in the mail,,,,it was about seeking God. How timely!
Intermed. told me this morning that Drac wants to know if I am aware of his cousin's daughter's birthday party this weekend AND he wants to know if I am taking the kids.
I won't bother to have him told that I knew about it before I ever moved, as his cousin wanted to be sure to have our address to invite me & DD. We got our invitation weeks ago.
So, do I bother to acknowledge and have a response sent? Is it really any of his business if we are going to the party or not? I thought I'd just have the response sent that Yes, Bugs is aware of the party. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Had Dad come over tonight, as I had a leaky kitchen faucet. Took him 10 minutes and all is well again. I could have fixed it myself if I'd had to, but he likes being "needed", and I was sure it was done right. Plus, DD was happy to see her Grandpa. Drac called while Dad & his buddy were here. We missed the call, but she called right back.
I accomplished NOTHING at work today. Was not able to focus really well. No particular reason that I can come up with, I just wasn't with it at all. I came home a bit early. Mowed the front lawn, raked leaves. Met a couple more neighbors, which is good. They have 3 kids and a trampoline, so DD is excited and went over to play for a bit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It was great to get to sleep in a bed last night! Although I have to admit, it's a bit lonely. I have lots of pillows, but it's just not the same as being held by someone. Maybe that has something to do with my rather melancholy mood today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Also, I saw my first husband over the weekend. Ran into him unexpectedly while out and about Sat night at the birthday party. We had a nice conversation. He is doing well and I am very happy for him. Haven't seen him in a couple of years (despite Drac's certainty that I'd been seeing him again, and Drac's telling everyone I was! LOL!)
Actually, I wonder if it's the "boredom" of a nice quiet Plan B that is getting to me?!? No Drac contact attempts Fri. Sat or Sun, and just the party question today. Ho Hum.
Bugs:
If you want the kids to go, then send them with someone else. Do not go to the party. That is exactly what Drac is looking for right now. He is asking because he needs his fix. Don't give it to him !
Psalm 86:15 - " But you O God, are both tender and Kind, not easily angered, immense in love, and you never quit."
God never quits, so why should we ? I attended my first divorce care session last night. It is a christian based divorce support group. Everyone else in there is divorced and I just seperated. I could easily just give up. I could easily throw in the towel, but that's not what God has instructed me to do.
When you pray, ask god to allow you to hear HIM more frequently. After praying sit back and relax and watch for his answers. Through other people, his word, even your surroundings. When I wanted to quit about 2 weeks ago, I prayed and said "Lord, it has been a while, should I still be standing for my marriage or is it time to start moving on ?" Later that day as I drove to work, a sign that I pass every day that normally just has scripture, had a saying about an invisible battle being victorious. I believe it was God saying that he believes he will win this battle. So I said then "Thank you Lord, I will continue with my stand."
That is the one thing I always had, patience, but when this all happened I became an impaient person. God is letting me learn patience all over again. I know that he is perfecting my husband, along with my life. I have become a stronger person because of it.
" They cried out to the Lord in their trouble, and HE saved them out of their distresses. HE sent HIS word and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions. (Psalm 107:19-20)
Lord, you have said to call upon you in the day of trouble and YOU WILL deliver us (Psalm 50:15). I call upon YOU now and ask that YOU would work deliverance in my husband's life and especially in my marriage. Deliver him from anything that binds him. Set him free from the clutches of the enemy, from his jealousy, pride, sexual sins, slothfulness, anger and any other sins in his life. Lift him away from the hands of the enemy (Psalm 31:15).
Bring him to a place of understanding where he can recognize the work of evil and cry out to YOU for help. If the deliverance he prays isn't immediate, keep him from discouragement and help him to be confident that YOU have begun a good work in him and will complete it (Philip 1:6)
Give him the certainty that even in his most hopeless state, when he finds it impossible to change anything, YOU, LORD, can change everything.
Lord, I pray that YOU would strenthen my husband to resist any temptation that comes his way. Deliver him from the evils such as adultery, pornography, drugs, alcohol, gampling and perversion. Remove temptation especially in the area of adultery.
Make him strong where he is weak. Help him to rise above anything that seeks to erect a stronghold in his life. Lord, YOU said that "Whoever has no rule over his own spirit is like a city broken down without walls." (Proverbs 25:28)
I pray that my WS will not be broken down by the power of evil, but raised up by the POWER OF GOD. Help him to take charge over his own spirit and have self control to resist anything and anyone who becomes a temptation.
And most of all Lord, make reconcilliation a word that my WS desires. You know my heart and my desires LORD. Please help me by allowing Jesus to interceede for me, I am sure there are other ways that my husband needs prayers. Please strengthen me and enable me to see these ways. Strenghten my prayer life lord, and enable me to be a better soldier for Christ.
Through you all things are possible, and I will not allow Satan to tempt me with his doubt and disbelief. I know that you are refining my husband and moving that mountain to bring him home to his loving family.
Thank you Lord for moving the mountains that I can not see. Thank you for the ways in which you have changed my life so greatly. Thank you for protecting me and my family. And thank you for doing your BEST to achieve the goal of reconciliation in my marriage.
I give my husband and my marriage all to you, in the mighty name of Jesus, AMEN !!!
I agree, Do NOT go to the party. IMO, by his actions of what you have posted he is finally feeling the effects of plan B, if you go you start from scratch. Stay dark, don't start all over.
It will send a very loud and clear message to him if you don't go.
Send a nice gift, or arrange to visit outside of the party time. But let Drac have the party all to himself.
He doesn't want his daughter to miss the fun? Well, consequences suck, don't they? If you take her - his guilt is alleviated. If you let him take her - his guilt is alleviated. If she doesn't get to go because she is a kid of divorcing parents whose time gets split between two households....oh well, HIS choice. And it gives his family a chance to disapprove of him.
I think this is partly about him trying to manipulate you into COPARENTING.
This is NOT about that with YOU.
This is about PLAN B...DARKNESS.."Drac, you don't exist for me until you end your affair..."
I say that it's not an emergency..no big deal..more important for your daughter to have an INTACT FAMILY than to not miss out on a BIRTHDAY PARTY..short-term thinking on his part, focusing on the the trivial rather than what REALLY MATTERS...
I say IGNORE THIS ALTOGETHER...NO MESSAGE to HIM..NOTHING...
I agree with Mimi -- no response needed.
What you do with DD on YOUR time is none of his business.
What you do with DD on YOUR time is none of his business.
EXACTLY!!! I LOVE THIS WAY OF LOOKING AT IT!!!
Hey all!
Just finished dinner after DD's gymnastics class. She's so funny - - all legs and arms. She went thru a growth spurt and her arms & legs are too long for her right now, but it's so cute! She's really liking it, which is the BEST part.
She's downstairs on the phone w/Drac.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What you do with DD on YOUR time is none of his business.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXACTLY!!! I LOVE THIS WAY OF LOOKING AT IT!!!
That is almost EXACTLY what I said to my Mom - - only difference is I added an explative! I did have answer sent before I saw your posts- but it said only "Yes, Bugs is aware". As we all agree, it's none of his business what we do on my weekends.
Problem is that weeks ago and since, I did promise DD that she could go to the party. I was thinking today how I could make that happen without MY actually having to show up. I am going to call one of his Aunts to see about dropping the kids with them to attend the party and then I will pick up after from their house. This way they get to go, as I promised, but Drac gets no fix.
As I can no longer post during the day, but I can read posts, I went back and read your thread again, Mimi. It really got me to thinking. Wondering. Pondering.
You had what seemed to me, quite a bit of interaction with your FWS, even in Plan B. I worry that total darkness is not going to just allow him to hit rock bottom, but also to just move further and more Comfortably away from me.
I was particulary thinking about the "olive branch" and the transition period. How does one know when or IF that time comes? Granted, Drac has given NO indication that he is anywhere close. I guess I am hoping/searching for a sign. The email last week about the political issue was the ONLY non-kid, non-D communication I've gotten from him.
You are right, Mimi. For Drac right now, it's about making it easy, friendly, co-parenting. That is not what I want, but may have to end up settling for someday. I know this is a marathon, but it gets tiresome sometimes wondering what the actual length of the race may end up being. Wondering if I am anywhere close to the finish line - - - whether that finish line is my own new, single life, or the possibility of a new relationship with Drac.
Hmmm, maybe too much quiet time in Plan B with no true focus is making me loopy! I just finished a fiction book for pleasure. I think I need to find something a bit more challenging to occupy my time.
BTW - a tidbit overheard this week. Drac is having problems with the satellite company! Wonder if he's sorry for shutting it off on me yet!! he he! Just a tiny visit from the Karma fairy, I think.
Oh, and without asking, a co-worker chose to share that Drac is not seeing the Ho and hasn't been since about the time he told DD they broke up. Perhaps that is part of my mental confusion as well. Hurt/worried that the breakup and no action on his part in wanting to return means the real end for us.
Bugs,
May I make a suggestion? From this point forward don't even tell DD about any upcoming parties or any events w/Dracs family, that way you won't have to break any promises to her. You will have to find a suitable replacement to take her. I hope no matter what you do not choose to go.
If you can't find anyone to take her I would suggest doing something fun and exciting in place of the party. She won't be scarred for life if she doesn't get to go. Do something else just as fun and she won't miss it one bit.
Edited to add:
Oh, and without asking, a co-worker chose to share that Drac is not seeing the Ho and hasn't been since about the time he told DD they broke up. Perhaps that is part of my mental confusion as well. Hurt/worried that the breakup and no action on his part in wanting to return means the real end for us.
I would also suggest if coworkers try to talk about him, cut them off and say you would prefer no to know what is going on with him. I know it sounds mean and it's very hard at first, but it is best not to listen when someone wants to talk about him.
LC
Bugs:
You COULD call Drac and Ask him to meet you in that place you met him for Dinner at about six months ago.
And ask him what he wants to do.
You MIGHT get DRAC Spouting.
Or you MIGHT get H asking you to take him back.
Either way, You MIGHT get something.
He knows what he has to do to GET YOU BACK.
And if there is no HO, then it should be real easy for him to come back to you.
But he's probably on to HO #2 already.
He has that need for SOOOMMEEEONNEE.
It could be you. It could be someone else.
Would you settle for that, NOW?
Do not obsess about whether you have done "enough" to get your H back. You have. You have a thread over 170 pages detailing those efforts.
They also detail Drac's efforts.
And it all comes down to Drac making a choice.
So let him make it.
(((BUGS)))
LG
LG.
WOW - OUCH - THANKS.
Not sure which of those feelings is at the top of my list right now.
I DO hear you, although I don't know that I especially 'want' to just yet. Does that make sense?
Going to bed now and will be praying for Patience and Confidence as I obviously need a big dose of both.
Nite.
You had what seemed to me, quite a bit of interaction with your FWS, even in Plan B. I worry that total darkness is not going to just allow him to hit rock bottom, but also to just move further and more Comfortably away from me.
WHAT????
Any interaction that I had with my H PROLONGED his affair. HITTING ROCK BOTTOM..having NO INTERACTION with me..FEAR OF LOSING ME..having to depend on the OW to MEET ALL OF HIS NEEDS and finding that she was unable to do so is what brought an end to his affair...CONTACT with ME relieved him of his MISERY and sent him right back to HER feeling BETTER...so you are reading my thread WRONG..
There is NO WAY AROUND the need for DARKNESS in PLAN B..
I REGRET every single minute of interaction that I had with my H during PLAN B....
Remember I am getting this information from HIM now...not based on MY ASSUMPTIONS...
I was particulary thinking about the "olive branch" and the transition period. How does one know when or IF that time comes? Granted, Drac has given NO indication that he is anywhere close. I guess I am hoping/searching for a sign. The email last week about the political issue was the ONLY non-kid, non-D communication I've gotten from him.
He has to be SUFFERING..BEGGING you to return..almost down on his hands and kness...OR you get the FALSE RECOVERIES...like I EXPERIENCED...I pray that NEVER happens to YOU...
My H went so far as to FIND A HOUSE for me...AND MORE OFFERINGS...
The HARLEYS recommend TWO YEARS in PLAN B..That was the TIME FRAME I was using...
I knew it ended up being much shorter but that was MY THINKING in terms of a time frame...
Hmmm, maybe too much quiet time in Plan B with no true focus is making me loopy! I just finished a fiction book for pleasure. I think I need to find something a bit more challenging to occupy my time.
EXACTLY..take up something new that you always have wanted to do...something ADVENTUROUS...
Oh, and without asking, a co-worker chose to share that Drac is not seeing the Ho and hasn't been since about the time he told DD they broke up. Perhaps that is part of my mental confusion as well. Hurt/worried that the breakup and no action on his part in wanting to return means the real end for us.
That's BULLL..I guarantee you that he's still seeing her...they like it to be underground...keeps the excitement and drama going...
I wouldn't engage in conversations with those folks about my personal life..SO TACKY...
Head up, BUGSY..don't go to THAT GUTTER LEVEL with NOSY PEOPLE that don't really care about you and just want to use you for their amusement and gossip.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Nobody knows what's really going on with him..and YOU don't care 'cause he doesn't exist for you...YOU ARE NOT GETTING THIS, BUGS!!!!
People are telling him stuff about you as well..for their own personal pleasure and enjoyment...YUCK...
Mimi is right, Bugs.
Letting the co-workers talk to you about Drac is not a dark Plan B.
If ANYWONE wants to tell you what Drac is doing, just smile and say, "What he does is no longer my business and vice versa." and then change the subject. If they persist, then walk away.
People love to stir the pot, Bugs, so that they can have something to gossip about. Don't let them, because it is detrimental to you, as well as the recovery of your marriage. Any comment you make is likely exaggerated when they report back to Drac.
I agree with Lady. How do you know that this was not a
set up from drac to find out what your reaction is ?
He's looking to see how to reach you in any means possible.
He has to repent, he has to feel the guilt and you have to allow God to break him, before you can ever work this out with him.
Letting the co-workers talk to you about Drac is not a dark Plan B.
This has been a great problem for me...one of the reason why I was in that downward spiral...
Remember I was saying that it seemed like I just COULD NOT get dark enough...this was the reason...I know that people mean well, but it was adding to my anxiety and depression!
Do yourself a favor and protect yourself! Set that boundary with them, say something like I know that you mean well;however, it pains me, whatever, to hear about him and you would rather not!
It's difficult BUT I KNOW that YOU can do it!
Hey Everyone!
I don't have a lot of time, but wanted to post and say thanks for the Battle Rally! The troops can stand down now. LOL!
Seriously, though, your support means so very much to me and I AM listening.
I was in the middle of a long post last night when I got a phone call that threw everything off! My niece called to tell me that she is pregnant! She & her husband have been trying for a while. She has had a lot of problems and had a surgical procedure a couple of months ago to try to help the situation. Obviously it worked!
Also, she is due in May, which is the month my nephew passed away this year. It's a pretty special thing for our family. The renewal of life. While the baby will never replace our baby boy, it is something to give us hope & joy, especially because it is so very wanted.
A real quick Drac update. I just want to say that I have resisted the urge to call or contact him. I KNOW it is fruitless, but knowing that does not completely take away the desire.
I have also made arrangements for the kids to attend the bday party early and for me to pick them up late to avoid the possibility of seeing Drac. Yesterday he said he'd found a Halloween costume for DD and wanted to know if I wanted him to buy it. Now, every year I have taken care of getting costumes for the entire family. Apparently DD told him she wanted to be a girl pirate when he told her about his friends having a Halloween party that they are going to. I had M tell him to talk to DD about it.
He had her last night, but dropped her off almost 30 minutes early.
THEN,,,,,,,,,,,while we were getting ready for bed, DD had a HORRIBLE crying fit. She was SO upset. Telling me how she does not want to live here. She wants to move back to the other house. She misses her cousin. Apparently she told Drac the same thing, including how she thought he forced us to move from the other house. He told her we could have stayed there as long as we wanted?????????
Needless to say, I got upset and teary, too. I did my best to reassure her that everything would be ok. I told her it was OK to miss her cousin and to feel sad sometimes. I tried to focus on the good things we have here, her dance & gymnastics, my family members being close, and the new baby on the way. She wasn't consoled much by that at all.
One thing she said thru her tears got me. She said, "We don't need this BIG house, we just need to be home in our small house". Where in the world did that comment come from??? It all just broke my heart. I felt so helpless. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Well, time to get her up for school. I'd welcome any ideas on helping DD through this.
Thanks.
Bugs:
Here is an example of how persistant praying brings about answers from God.
This is a message that God gave my friend at work to give to me.
He told her to give me Zecharia - chapter 9 vs 12, but you always read the verse before as well.
11 As for you also, because of
(J) the blood of my covenant with you,
(K) I will set your prisoners
(L) from the waterless pit.
12 Return to your stronghold,
(M) O prisoners of hope; today I declare that
(N) I will restore to you double.
THen he told her to tell me to read the last chapter of Job. It is amazing because it is the exact way I have been reading.
I have been praying strongly that the lord would release Bill from the prison that Satan has him in. I have been praying for him to repent of his sins, for the blinders to be removed from his eyes, for his ears to be able to hear the Lord's calling, and for his heart to be softened to the point that he wants to respond.
I'm not sure exactly what God is trying to tell me here, but I know that it is an answer to some of my prayers.
Isn't he wonderful ????
Maybe you could explain to DD that this is a new start for all of you. And that if Drac would decided to come home then this could be a wonderful new start for the entire family. That sometimes memories of old can stir up trouble and this gives all of you a clean chalkboard to start out on.
Stress the good parts, the pool. New friends. Now she has more friends then she's ever had, because she has the old friends and the new friends.
Let her know that you miss the old house as well, but for you to be healthy you needed to let some of the old memories go.
Hopefully that will help her understand.
Bugs:
Remember, you would not be in THIS house if DRAC didn't decide to leave the OTHER house.
Do not be afaid to tell DD this. "Daddy moved out and then Mommy decided it was time to make a life for DD and Mom" "I hope that Daddy choosing to rejoin us, but Daddy has made a choice not to be with us."
AS for this:
"He told her we could have stayed there as long as we wanted?????????"
Yes, you could have, but remember the above. DRAC can move back in anytime.
Also, see how comfortable DD got with the living sitch that you have had for over a year.
And how screwy was that sitch?
Oh, and who caused that?
DD is transitioning to a new house, school, routines. Maybe it all came out last night. And you might not hear much more about it. Or you might. But you did the right thing.
And it's Still Drac's choice to seperate your family.
LG
((((bugs))))
Oh, sweetie, I know how difficult that was for you to have to deal with her...
Thing is I would just accept that she's going to have her bad moments JUST LIKE YOU...she's going to grieve, and she's going to accept things the way there are, but you have to give her time...
I think that you did a wonderful job of reinforcing the positive things about the new place...think of yourself and how you have dealt with your own grieve...you KNOW that there are positive things about this, but sometimes it doesn't make you feel any better...
You are in a process, well, DD is too...and of course, you would love to make things better for her...simply fact is, let her grieve, hug her, hold her, and let her go through the process in her own way...
i remember crying to myself about the D when I was three of four...how bad I wantedmy daddy to be around, how I hated where I was living, how I wish he would come get me...it's a process...and sometimes we just have to sit with our feelings...
It's going to be okay...YOU are fine, nothing bad has happened, DD will be fine, nothing bad has happen to her either...perhaps you can explain the process, and that she's going to feel bad sometimes...
it's all new and sometimes we get scary about the new stuff, but that it will get better...something to think about for next time...
how wonderful to have each other to lean on...to share in teh process, no matter how difficult it is to see them hurt...not like a cut, that you can wash, apply some medicine, kiss it, and put a bandaid on...but hugs, kisses, and reassure DOES go a long way!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You are doing great! And should you feel guilty, or are feeling guilty remember this is not your guilt, this is not your choice...put that guilt where it belongs!
(((BUGS))))
It is very common for kids to be upset over leaving a home they've been in for a long time. They are leaving their comfort zone. I don't think I've met a parent yet who said the kids liked moving to a new home. It almost always takes time for them to adjust.
Drac has some nerve making it sound like you guys could have stayed there as long as you wanted. Big ole coward is downplaying his involvement in her life being uprooted.
Hi Bugs,
Agree fully with LG's post. Funny thing, though, even the counselor DS is seeing disagreed with me when I pointed out that WW left the family. She tried to say "no she left you, she did not leave the kids." I disagreed with her and left it at that.
That's been the thing WW wants to argue about so much, her leaving, daddy's house/mommy's house vs. Our house/mommy's house.
I'll never agree with her on that and never apologize for what I am doing.
Thanks everyone.
I am feeling a bit better today. I realize it is normal for her to be going through an adjustment period & this is part of it. Frankly, I am GLAD she feels good enough to let it out with me, even though it's hard for me. That's my job as her Mom! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I left a message this afternoon for the school psychologist. I am a big believer in getting that professional help/advice/opinion. I can have her speak to her & watch out for her at school. Having that add'l set of professional, non-biased eyes and ears will give me a better evaluation of how serious or not this may be.
While I am concerned that this was stirred up by Drac last night, I am not coming out of the darkness because of it. I can only guess what was said, how it came up, etc. I may have to address it with him down the road, but not until I have more information.
I think with the possibility of no regular HO activity in his life, he's going to be playing games in my direction. Who knows what the point of this was,,,,,,,making me out to be the "bad" guy for moving her away? He apparently said something about not getting the weekday overnight visits. Whatever. I could guess forever on his words & motivations and never get it right. I deal only in MY reality with me & DD as the focus, with DSS as much as possible! Drac is not in our inner circle!
Have to go now to take DD to dance. Will try to post again after.
Need advice on dentist appt arrangements tomorrow to avoid the Drac!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
It's probably hard for you to see while you are in the midst of it all. But, Drac is continuing to engage with you regarding TRIVIAL MATTERS like whose gonna buy a Halloween costume.
In the meantime, your DD is crying her eyes out at night.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH....
Time to put your foot down, BUGS...
Set your boundary...
He's beginning ongoing communication with you...NOT GOOD..NOT GOOD....
Hopefully others can help with the details on this...BUT it is NECESSARY for you to SEAL this up TIGHTER...with you being PROACIVE, telling him that I will only communicate with you about XYZ..he's MANIPULATING you into COPARENTING..and this is relieving his PAIN about this, IMO....
What's keeping him from going ahead and buying the costume without checking with you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
And don't believe for one minute that he REALLY has broken up with her...my bet is that this is a LIE that they have cooked up for some reason...maybe just for FUN...
I agree with Mimi, Bugs.
The only thing that should be communicated THROUGH YOUR INTERMEDIARY is IMPORTANT information regarding the kids, such as pickup/drop-off dates/times, vital school info, and medical issues.
NOTHING ELSE! Your intermediary should not even tell you about Drac wanting to buy the costume. If he buys it, he buys it. Who cares?
No repsonse needed on that one, Bugs.
As for the stuff with your DD, document it, do what you can for your DD, and let your attorney know about it. It could be considered parental alienation on Drac's part, and the judge can put a stop to it.
NO INTERACTIONS WITH DRAC.
PITCH BLACK, COAL MINE DARK!!!!
Bugs...you are rationalizing alot of non-Plan B behavior.
you need to stop, you harm yourself and your children with this constant back and forth.
Morning!
Sorry I did not post last night. I was putting together my computer desk and smashed my right index finger. OUCH! Typing is not so easy today. Glad it's Friday.
Ok, so I am NOT getting it. Not dark enough. Even having a response sent that is 3 words is too much as it is in response to a trivial matter? Is that right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I am really confused about myself this morning, then. Mimi, I guess you are right in that being here in the middle of it, I am not seeing it for what it really is.
BR - - "harm to myself and my children"? I don't understand that. Can you explain further?
It bugs me that I'm not really getting this,,,, I like to consider myself a fairly intelligent woman! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
The kids have dentist appts today at the same time. Drac is bringing DSS to the appt and I will be taking him after. I have been trying to figure out what to have M tell Drac to do so that I can best avoid seeing him. I think I'll have her tell him that I will be there a few minutes early so he can just drop DSS at the door and I will meet DSS on the correct floor by the elevator. That way we won't even be on the same floor. It's the best idea that I have.
Gotta run.
The kids have dentist appts today at the same time. Drac is bringing DSS to the appt and I will be taking him after. I have been trying to figure out what to have M tell Drac to do so that I can best avoid seeing him. I think I'll have her tell him that I will be there a few minutes early so he can just drop DSS at the door and I will meet DSS on the correct floor by the elevator. That way we won't even be on the same floor. It's the best idea that I have.
My opinion is to reschedule DD's and avoid the whole thing. Don't try to justify keeping it because it will take X amount of time to get a new appointment. If he sees you, you start from scratch, period.
My guess is he will not simply drop DSS off and let him get on the elevator. He needs a fix and he will get in one way or another. In the future, appointments should not be scheduled on the same day.
Just my 2 cents.
LC
A real quick Drac update. I just want to say that I have resisted the urge to call or contact him. I KNOW it is fruitless, but knowing that does not completely take away the desire.
That desire is going to come back on you time and again, so be ready for it and don't give in to it. You're going through your own withdrawal, and it's hard.
The way it goes is that you get triggered by something, and your body reacts. "This is not right," your body says. "This is not how it should be. This feels wrong, and I don't want to feel wrong. It would feel right if Drac would only [fill in the blank], so I will reach out and tell Drac to [fill in the blank] or show him that [fill in the blank] or . . . ." Now, your head knows full well that Drac isn't going to listen to what you have to say because he's a fogged-out zombie, but your emotional side/heart/body/subconscious WANTS it. It helped me to name this, which is when I started doing the split personality Guy Smiley/Super Dark Guy stuff.
So, how do you avoid this? What's the biggest source of triggers? Contact! Any contact can trigger you. Avoid it.
How does this hurt you and your kids? Getting triggered is emotionally exhausting--even if you don't act on it, it consumes energy, makes you feel bad, distracts you from being the best parent you can be, and drains your love bank. See how these all hurt you and your kids? So, when you Let Yourself get triggered, you're hurting yourself and your kids.
And, of course, acting as a result of a trigger is almost always a terrible idea.
Dark Plan B. Mine hasn't been particularly good, but I think it's harder with small children and joint custody. Still, the best stretches for me have been where there is little or no contact.
I know you want to stick your head out and see if he's ready yet. He's not. It's way too soon. Listen to the experts on this. This is another one you're going to have to resist. Be strong.
Not sure what to tell you in regard to the kids, but I'm going to post some stuff about my kids later, so you can read that and at least see that you're not alone.
(((Bugs)))
LC & Guy Smiley,
thanks!
LC, this appt will be the last one schedule with both kids at the same time. It was booked months ago, and due to my residence change, I did not find out about it in time to cancel & avoid a substantial cancellation fee.
Guy Smiley,
I love the idea of the split personality! LOL! I understand that.
Thanks for the clarification & support. I know we are both pretty close to the same place right now, so it's pretty easy to relate.
I did call and speak with the school psychologist today. I feel better. She's really nice and I think will be a great support for both me & DD. Having her & the social worker looking out for DD while at school makes me feel much much better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I will be leaving shortly to take DD to the dentist. I remembered that there are 2 seperated waiting rooms there. I am going to go early so that I can sit in the back and avoid Drac if he chooses to ignore my request about dropping off DSS, as I suspect he will.
Triggers,,,,,yes it is tied directly with ANY sort of contact, isn't it. Whether I realize it or not, it does effect me. I know there is no point in peeking out at Drac, he's lost somewhere in that deep rolling fog. Not worth my time and it would only hurt the process.
Do I bother to work out a message to have M send regarding what I will and will not communicate about? I am afraid of it being #1. perceived by him as an opening to attempt more contact #2. used by him in our still pending legal proceedings #3. a total waste of my time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Thoughts?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
do NOT send him any messages!!!!
STOP COMMUNICATING.
Write that on your bathroom mirror, your rearview mirror, your cell phone and your computer monitor!
How do you harm yourself and your kids?
Everytime you do ANYTHING that makes Drac comfortable, that feeds his dance, any time you break your plan B...
He gets to stay in his affair longer, and he gets to disrespect you.
your children are watching you put up with unacceptable behavior .... YOU are their example.
Enabling him draws out the pain, the uncertainty, the affair.
THIS is harmful to your children and to you.
You need to get M on track with being your intermediary.
No, you do not need to outline what you will or won't communicate about. You already have. He can call you if there is blood or injuries. Nothing else matters.
You need to coach M on being a tougher intermediary.
She is sending through too much unnecessary information.
She needs to process the info for urgent/not urgent -- then only send on to you the urgent stuff.
Halloween costumes do not fit "urgent". You should continue on with your life with DD as if Drac did not exist.
He can get his own costume for her if he spends anytime with her on that holiday. She will have 2 costumes. Big deal.
It is up to M to tell Drac:
I am not communicating the halloween costume information to Bugs. She has made her arrangements for DD, and you can make yours.
No, you do not need to outline what you will or won't communicate about. You already have. He can call you if there is blood or injuries. Nothing else matters
YOU'RE RIGHT, LEXX!!! I absolutely agree with you on this!!
Bugs, intermediary is not an easy gig. I wish there were a manual for it.
Well dentist went ok.
DD & I were early and she went on in before DSS ever arrived. Drac brought him up to the office, looked around the corner to the waiting room where I was and walked out. I was working & looking down, so I did not even look at him. I just heard his voice. He told DSS bye and left.
Kids & I went shopping to buy bedding for DSS's bed. I let him pick it all out. We then went to a move and then shopped for bday present. We're hanging out watching tv.
Kids called Drac on DSS's phone & got vm. Drac just called. Gave DSS the story that his "personal" phone isn't working and he never got their message. DSS asked me to program his Dad's work phone number into his cell for him. WTF?? Dumb Drac.
Dss didn't even bring any clothes with him because Drac didn't arrange it. DSS didn't even know that he was coming with me after the dentist until they were on their way. What an A$$.
Not going to get worked up about it. I have or will buy whatever DSS needs. Going to watch some movies and call it a night.
Oh, and I'm doing the happy dance for Rin!!!
Hey all!
Party situation worked out just fine. I arrived early and dropped the kids. Family was great. One person started to share about Drac, and I drew my boundary, simply stating that I just don't want to talk about him. Unfortunately as I said this to one, another walked up asking, "What's this I hear that Drac has a new girlfriend?". I simply re-stated my Boundary with this person and did not even acknowledge the information they felt it necessary to share with me.
I feel good about that, it did make the small amount of time I spent there much easier. I just hate having learned something I did not want/need to know. Well, it can't be undone now.
I left shortly after arriving and then went to the office. I got a lot of work done,,, not as much as I would have liked, but it helped! I stopped by the store for a second and then went to pick up kids. They'd had a great time and I got to talk to the family a bit more. I didn't ask, but assume Drac didn't show at all.
So, now am home. Kids are playing at the neighbors. I cleaned some silver I had used during the move and put it away. Now am feeling a bit a loose ends. Sure there is tons of "house" stuff I could do, but am not really in the mood. Think I'm just going to relax this evening.
While driving today, I listened more to my cd about seeking God and have spent time reading Psalms. It helps. Normally drive time includes way to much "Drac thought", so am now listening to things that hold my attention vs just music where my mind wanders to him more often than not.
Yes, I spent time and energy thinking about him on the drive home with the kids (it's over an hour). But, I kept catching myself. Reminding myself to just let him go. Remembering that the man he is today is not the man I want, so why expend the energy?
I have a very blessed life. It will continue to be blessed and trusting God to show me the path he has for me is the only way to continue my journey.
I think I'll put on some music and dance around the house tonight with the kids. It always makes them laugh and makes ME feel good!
Later all!
Hey Girl!
I think I'm going to crank up the tunes while I finish cleaning my woodwork! Great idea!
I'm doing the kid weekend too -- although I'm down to just one kid plus a few friends! My oldest son is away at school, and my daughter just left for a week in Mexico.
So its just me and my youngest (and the guys) lol.
I'd love to see what your house looks like!
Today I've got all the windows open -- nice soft breeze coming through and the sound of teenage boys riding dirtbikes and playing football....
Lexxx,
Don't ya just love the sounds of the kids having fun outside? The sound of children laughing is my favorite sound!
Soon, I'll post a pic of the house, just not yet. Needs a bit of work, but I'll get there. Gives me good things to focus on.
my daughter just left for a week in Mexico.
Hmmmm - I have to say I am jealous!!! I think a girl trip to Mexico is on my near horizon. I talked about it for the last year, but did not do it. Am going to try to rope a couple of the girls into a trip real soon!
The weather here today is great,,,, a cool fall feeling kind of day. My FAVORITE time of year. Make me want to make caramel apples. Actually, am going to the store to get the stuff to do that tomorrow.
DD just came in and asked if they could eat at the neighbor's house. I walked over to make sure they were invited. The husband was bar-b-q'ing. 2 of his friends were there. 1 I've met before. They invited me too, but I declined, not in the mood tonight. We talked for a few minutes,,,,, dare I say the friends looked "interested"? Felt kind of like a "let's ck out the new divorced neighbor" thing?? Really kind of weird for me, but it make me laugh!
Am going to enjoy the few minutes of 'adult' tv I will get for the evening,,,, as that doesn't happen much any more.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well my crew just left to go to a bonfire at a *girls* house!!!
So a couple hours of me-time before I have to drive them home.
Were you in Goddess attire for being Checked Out?? LOL
I had some friends trying to get me to come over tonight for the not-so-subtle set-up-our-single-friends-casually-over-dinner thing. YUCK. No thanks. I would much rather stay home with a bunch of rowdy boys!
Lexxx,
Hmmm, going to a *girls* house! Very exciting for teenage boys! LOL! Hope you enjoyed those few precious hours of "me-time"!!
I was in semi-goddess attire, which is WHY I think I was getting checked out! he he! It must have been apparent because neighbor walked kids back over to my house, told me they were really well behaved & made a point to mention that his wife & one other wife were inside. He wanted to be sure I didn't think the "guys" were just inviting me over! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Kids had fun, which was GREAT! Playing with neighbors was not something they really got to do much at the other house as we were too far apart from neighbors on a busy highway.
Kids talked to Drac. After, DSS tells me that "Dad said we should just take me to his work tomorrow to drop me off. He's going to be there. He wants me to call him just before we leave. He DOESN'T have a date, he's going to the ball game"
It pissed me off, and unfortunately, DSS could tell. What happened to Drac's REPEATED demand not to send messages through the kids? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
How DARE he just assume that is Best or Easiest for me? How about the fact that our plans will not be taking us by his work on the way home? UGHH!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Now what?
You proceed AS PLANNED as if your DSS did not tell you anything.
Bugs...STOP THIS!!!
Mimi,
I should have been more clear in that last line. I wasn't asking what I needed to do, but was asking what Drac's going to try to pull next??!! As in "Now what's he going to pull?" I am sure he thinks he was being "Mr. Nice Guy" saving me 45 minutes both ways driving - - - heaven forbid it occur to him that I have my OWN plans!!
Sorry I wasn't more clear.
Of COURSE I went on with my plans for today. I should have changed them, but not because of Drac. Just before we were walking out the door to go to the amusement park, I remembered I wanted DSS to clean out his backpack. I had picked it up on Fri & it was SO heavy. I peeking inside and what a MESS!
Dss's challenges include problems with organization. He is SO SMART, but he his terrible at staying organized. The only bad grades he's ever gotten were due to missing work, not that he could not DO the work. I KNEW Drac wouldn't be keeping up with him like he should and I was right (unfortunately).
Well, after getting out a ton of wrinkled messy papers, guess what was found? A progress report from the 11th!! Guess who is FLUNKING math?? Guess why?? Yep, MISSING 7 assignments! UGH! Now, granted DSS IS 13, but I blame Drac for this! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
3 guesses why DSS hasn't told Drac about it? Drac told him he'd pull him out of football. I explained to DSS, yes, that is the right thing to do. HOWEVER, even not telling Drac wasn't going to help because if he doesn't get his grade up the SCHOOL will toss him off the team, Drac wouldn't have any say in it at all.
I am SO MAD at Drac! Am I surprised? NO, but it still makes me mad for DSS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Long story short on the day, Drac talked to DSS on the phone, I'd told DSS I'd take him to the HOUSE as we were closer to that than Drac's work.
It's really simple - - STick to the schedule! DUH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
When I dropped him off, Drac was NOT home, FIL was there waiting. Guess he doesn't want me going into the house and had to have FIL there to guard things? FIl said Drac asked him to come get DSS and that he was on his way home from work and said that Drac worked Sat, too. I told FIL, that's not my concern or my problem any more what he does or doesn't do - if he tells the truth or lies. Not my issue, and I changed the subject.
FIL asked me why I didn't go to a different family party Sat. Told him we'd gone to the bday party. He said I was missed at the other one. I told him I figured Drac might be there. He said no. Whatever.
FIL said he thought I'd forgotten about him because I had not called. I said absolutely not! I will have to make a point to call and check up on him. I invited him again to come to see DD and I at our new place. I doubt he will because of the drive, but maybe someday.
DD & I left, were about 2 miles down the road and passed Drac driving the other way.
I felt GREAT. Did what I planned, didn't worrry or concern myself with the Drac at all. We had a great time. DD and cranked the tunes and sang songs all of the way home. It was a TOTAL girl party! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I'm still really upset about DSS's grade, but there's only so much I can do. I put progress report in an envelope along with DSS's dentist report. I will admit to making notes on the progress report,,, well just one note. I wrote "found when cleaning out backpack" then I circled the date, the grades & the code for Missing Assignments. I probably should not have done that, but I was mad & it was done before I stopped to think.
Gotta go get DSS her bath!
Bugs:
This is going to sound harsh.....
Please talk with DSS as much as possible.
NO ONE is talking to him.
DRAC isn't.
And you only get a night a week and every other weekend....
The boy hasn't turned in assignments since the school season started.
HAS ANYONE asked him what's up at school?
We KNOW Drac isn't. He is in LA-LA land and going to let DSS slip through the cracks.
While DRAC gets his Crack hit from his next supplier.
Disorganized?
He's a 13 year old boy. Par for the course. But, considereing the sitch, it probably alot worse from him then it EVER was.
DD had the crying thing about the house the other day, and this is DSS reaction to all the things going on. Not crying with you, but ignoring his homework, and not applying himself at school. And nobody is asking him what is happening.....
DSS not being able to play football? IT's THE BEST THING that DSS could be doing right now.
Doesn't seem to make sense that, but it IS.
Sorry Bugs. THIS is SO difficult for you....
(((BUGS)))
LG
I like your thinking in your LAST POST.
I agree with LG about your DS.
Sad to say, "it is what it is"...
Parenting certainly is not a priority for DRAC...
The most you can do is to make sure that your DSS knows that you LOVE HIM...and that he can talk to you....that you will ALWAYS be there for HIM as much as possible...
But he is DRAC'S RESPONSIBILITY...it's really out of your hands...
(((((BUGS))))))
Bugs:
I wanted to give you some hope,as I just has some given to me. WS had DD for the weekend. He took her to his best friends and while she was looking at the baby and aparently he didn't know she was paying attention he proceeded to tell his buddy that he's thinking of moving home. My DD is so excited. She made sure she didn't let daddy know that she heard to push him away.
On the other side, I need your prayer today. Today at 11am EST I have child support / spousal support hearing. So is he thinking of coming home knowing what he'll be paying or because he truly loves me.
You see, the bible tells us to strive not. If we worry what our WS are doing, then we get our focus off of christ.
I am finding the more I am focused on Christ only, the more answers I am being led to. So instead of me rushing to write him letters or send him emails like I would love to...I am sitting back and allowing Christ to work through me.
Maybe if you get DSS one of the folders that expands that has many slots he can just put his papers in there and he'll be organized. Or try going to Dr. Charles Stanleys In touch web site and go under the broadcasts/ Audio archive. Let him listen to the sermon on slothfullness. I did not realize how much of a sin that is. Maybe it would help him to refocus. You can remind him that he always has 2 people who love him no matter what. You and Christ.
Remember, now is the time to stay focused on Christ. Read Psalm 91 today and it should give you some peace.
God bless...I'm praying for you and every stander out there.
LG,
Your post was not harsh at all. Unfortunately, due to distance, I don't get my one night during the week anymore with DSS. It's been pretty rough for all of us.
Friday night he followed me around the house like a puppy. Obviously missing/craving attention. I have tried to call him more often to stay in touch, but will be stepping that up.
You know how it is with boys this age,,,,or really kids in general. You ASK them all of the time about school and always get the same answer. "It's good.".
Obviously, that is NOT the case.
I will be calling his coach/counselor again today.
As you say, being out of football is NOT a bad thing at this point in time. I did not hesitate to make sure the progress report got to Drac. What happens next is somewhat out of my hands but I am going to do what I can.
Mimi, yes, it is what it is, but I HAVE to do what I can for him. I love that boy. Drac or not Drac. If he is not parenting, which he obviously is not, I have to do something. I can't just let him fall without trying to catch him.
Gotta run.
Have a GREAT week everyone!
Could you still take one night a week and take DSS out for dinner?
Even if you don't transport him all the way back to your house...just take him out for dinner?
Boys that age are like that BUGS, disorganized...will put off homework if they are not nagged about it. My older son did the SAME THING...and now my younger one tries to get away with it too (older/smarter mom won't let him!)
Couple ideas for you -- I made sure my boys had a study hall during the school day to get homework done -- normally they didn't have that scheduled (but my boys need that!)
Enlist FIL's help too. See if he would take charge of homework.
My school district has online access for the parents so that I can see what assignments are due, links to teacher's emails, etc. Its a great tool to stay on top of things.
No matter how mad you get at Drac, he isn't capable of being a good dad. Its gonna drain your lovebank more -- so just work around him as much as possible.
I have a very different opinion on the "school activities".
I know a lot of parents yank kids from those things if they aren't performing. I do the opposite. I refuse to let my kids quit.
First of all -- they committed to a team. They need to learn to stick to their commitments. So, I do not allow them to let their teammates down.
Second, to be involved in sports it takes a lot of parental involvement. Those are the kind of kids I WANT my son involved with -- the kind that have INVOLVED parents! Who their friends are is the MOST important choices kids make at this age, and it follows them through high school.
Third, they learn a lot of life lessons through sports. Winning, losing, teamwork, dedication etc. Invaluable.
So, if they are not getting homework done -- quitting their team is not an option at my house. Staying home all weekend doing homework with Mom on their A$$ is the option.
No TV, no radio, no texting, no computer....
First thing when I got to work, I called and spoke to DSS's Coach/Counselor. We had a great talk.
Apparently DSS came to him first thing this morning and told him he would not be playing any more. He said "My Dad & I had an agreement and I am not living up to my part of the bargain on my grades, so I can't play any more".
I admire DSS for doing it himself first thing. Coach & I agreed that due to the great strides DSS has made in getting friends, being social, his confidence, etc, we hate to see him not continue. DSS DOES have study hall, but without someone to help on the organization part, it doesn't do a lot of good. Coach was telling me that they are starting tutoring for ALL students in need, and that the football coaches were making arrangements for any players who are struggling to get tutoring. We agreed that DSS could get help there, AND possibly help other kids on the content while getting help with the organizational things.
Coach said he would call Drac to see if there was any chance of working things out.
I left DSS a message to call me after school. He did as soon as he got home. He said Drac wasn't MAD, but that he said he had to quit football because of his grades.
To be totally honest, DSS sounded relieved to be out of football. It could be an act, but I think I know him well enough to tell the difference. As much as it has been good for him, it's never been his "thing". I think both DSS and Drac are using his grades as an easy OUT of this whole thing. It makes me sad. But, there's nothing I can do about it.
DSS was supposed to work on this social studies missing assignment that I'd found out about from Coach and then call me back. I still have not heard from him. Apparently there have been only 2 assignments in Social studies and DSS is "missing" one, so he is also failing that class! We talked about it and confirmed he has the things he needs to complete the assignment,,,,,even though he "thinks" today was the last day he could turn it in. I told him to finish it any way and call me when he was done. I want him to try to turn it in tomorrow no matter what.
So, am going to call him now. I'll post a Drac & Divorce update later,,,,,,,,,,,,interesting stuff so stay tuned.
My lawyer called today. She wanted to set a time to sign the final agreement papers AND to ask me what “problem” occurred this weekend. Apparently she had a vm message from Drac’s attorney that there was a “problem”
I told her I was unaware of any “problem”, unless it was that Drac was mad because I did not take DSS to his work which would have been more convenient for Drac. My A proceeded to explain to me that Drac has been copying his A on EVERY communication. He’s been complaining to her through his A that I am not responding to his emails. She just ignores it unless she hears from me that it there is a problem. He intimated that I sent a “nasty”, as in MEAN email. I guess that must have been the one where I told him to end his affair and I would talk to him. His response to me was that his personal life is none of my business, but he prefaced it by copying and pasting MY message to him. I KNEW then what he was up to.
As I explained to my A, his emails about schedules and pertinent information are responded to, all others are not. She even said, “Unless it’s an emergency, what’s the problem?” She went further to state that Drac has NO room to complain about ANYTHIING when it comes to DSS. It is only out of the goodness of my heart that I take him every other weekend and that I am looking out for the best interests of DSS and DD by doing this. I believe she said “He should be kissing your feet for this and being thankful for the free babysitting you are supplying”.
Am I wrong in “assuming” that this is Drac’s way of trying to control me??
I don't think so, he has to have something to complain about and this is all he can come up with...
i think that Drac needed the wind knocked out of his sailing too! LMAO
This is the best that he has...let it go...he's a sad case! LMAO
I'm so proud of you and how you have handled things...you are doing wonderful!
head high, k?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
BUGS:
MAKE SURE THAT DSS IS STILL IN FOOTBALL.
Maybe my earlier post was misintepeted.
Let me be clear:
DO NOT LET HIM DROP FOOTBALL.
Do as Lexxy said, and make him work on his homework.
And I KNOW that he is DSS, and you do not have the ultimate control.
Drac Does. (I think is was disgraceful of Drac to force DSS to CALL The Coach to QUIT.) (HEY, SUPERDAD! How about some help with the Homework first!) Oh, but it's DSS fault that he isn't doing well at school.....
But please, make him go BACK.
Please buy "Boys Adrift" by Leonard Sax, MD Phd. at
http://www.boysadrift.com/home.phpAnd you will find out that being on the "Team" is what DSS may need right NOW.
Because the rest of his "Teams" are blowing up on him.
And that "it's not his thing" Then he doesn't go back next year. DSS NEEDS the CHALLENGE of it now.
Please, it's the best thing for him.
My DS, 14, hasn't even made it onto the field yet, during the games. And he is loving it.
It's about succeeding at something that isn't under his control, or under the control of anyone else......
LG
PS about the D?
Of course it your FAULT. Look what a horrible person you have been. Telling DRAC to end his A and you will work with him.....
HOW DARE YOU!
Sorry, Bugs. Drac may get it, he might not. His choice. And right now, according to him, it's all your fault.....
You were very explicit in your Plan B letter. End your A and we can work this out, BUT, you will never be his "Buddy" after the Divorce.
Because Drac choose this course of action.
Not Bugs.
(((BUGS)))
Drac?
Trying to get his attorney to make you be his friend.
HA!
Tattling on you to try to get you to play nice.
HA!
He still needs you to fill those needs. He's going without it, and its driving him nuts. It needs to reach the point that it becomes painful enough for him to change his behavior. That's what Plan B is all about.
Who's admiring him?
Who's his family/domestic support?
Who is meeting his conversation need?
Likely, if he's truly broken up with HO, and has a "new" one -- its a deperate attempt to get his needs met. He will find that no one else does it like you. By withholding yourself from him, you speed up the time he comes to that realization.
Dark, Darker, Darkest!!
LG,
No, you were very clear in your post. I am doing what I can with my limited influence to get DSS back on the team.
That is why I have the Coach calling Drac to try to work out an agreement to keep DSS playing. If *I* suggest it, it will never fly. I figured my best chance was to have the COACH ask for Drac to work it out with him,,,,,,that Drac is less likely to say no to a teacher/coach/counselor reaching out and asking for Drac's help for DSS.
I tried calling DSS last night and again this am. His phone was off both times. I left a message to call me after school. I know he turns the phone on after school. I will then be able to set a schedule of him keeping his phone on both morning and night so we can talk more.
I totally agree that this team is the BEST thing DSS has going for him right now. I am open for ideas on just HOW to do more to make sure he stays on the team. Asking Drac directly will not do it. Plan B or no Plan B, communicating and disagreeing with him on this will do no good in my opinion.
Remember, not dropping DSS off when & where DRAC decides makes me the horrible person,,,,makes me uncaring in regards to the children.
Again - - open for ideas????
Regarding the D, I don't see anything ever changing. Drac's turned his back on me forever. His A with the Ho is over, but the last thing he's going to do is come back to me and our M. That is his life. That is his choice.
There are times, like last night, that I want to write Drac a letter and tell him how my not speaking/interacting with him isn't because I am "MAD" at him. It's about ME making choices for MY life. He chose D. I choose not to interact with someone I don't know and who I really do not LIKE. It's about what works for me. He's free to do as he likes with his "personal life", as am I.
Our interaction with the kids can be very simple. Stick to the schedule. Period. Communicate emergencies or issues on behalf of the KIDS. Period. Changes to anything for "convenience" are not necessary.
Maybe someday I'll be at the point where I am willing/able to do that,,,,,,,,,, to speak with the stranger that used to be my H. Not now.
In the LONG RUN, it's best for your DSS for you and DRAC to be together.
IMO, anymore involvement of you with this puts HIM in the TRIANGLE...
IMO, in reality, you and DRAC can't work real well right now as PARENTS..'cause PARENTING is low in his priorities...
You are still saying that the A is OVER...
BUGS, I BET YOU THAT IT IS NOT OVER!!
You are definitely headed for D and PLAN B is not serving its purpose because of your continued involvement with him.
You remain concerned about Drac's thought process..
WANTING TO WRITE HIM A LETTER?
A LETTER to a person that does not exist??
When are you going to buy what we are saying about becoming dark?
When are you going to stop letting him manipulate you?
I think you need to GO WAY, WAY BACK INTO THE THE DARKNESS OF NIGHT...
He has now effectively used his son to get to you...
PERFECT..pulling him out of FOOTBALL if he thinks you want him in football..creating a FIGHT with you so that you are the BAD GUY..telling your son to turn the phone off....
BACK OFF BUGS...if you want to RECOVER your marriage..and you can if you REALLY GO DARK!!!
Lexxx,
We must have been posting at the same time earlier. I didn't hear anything back from A on whatever the supposed "issue" that his A wanted to discuss, so I am safely assuming it was just an attempt to get me to play nice.
Mimi,
Ok, hold me by the hand and walk through this with me a step at a time -
You are definitely headed for D and PLAN B is not serving its purpose because of your continued involvement with him.
Continued involvement? I haven't replied to him in any way in some time now. I've even stopped hearing about each and every one of his communications. Yes, he's in my thoughts - - that is the only involvment lately.
He has now effectively used his son to get to you...
PERFECT..pulling him out of FOOTBALL if he thinks you want him in football..creating a FIGHT with you so that you are the BAD GUY..telling your son to turn the phone off....
I have had NO interaction with Drac about DSS at all. I have interacted with DSS and DSS's coach. Drac has NO idea that I think it is best for DSS to remain in football.
Yes, he may be trying to start a fight with me over football,,,,, Over when/where to drop off DSS,,,,,,using his A to complain about me,,,,,, but I have NOT RESPONDED at all.
I know I need to do a better job for myself, mentally and emotionally that continues. However, I don't get where you think I am involved with Drac other than in my own mind?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
That is why I have the Coach calling Drac to try to work out an agreement to keep DSS playing.
PROBLEM..Coach will tell DRAC you told him to call, WHY NOT???...This ALL is DRAC'S responsibility...may feel like you are forsaking your DS..but like I said, in the long run, it's best for your S if you two are together...
,,,,,,that Drac is less likely to say no to a teacher/coach/counselor reaching out and asking for Drac's help for DSS.
Assumption..how could you know Drac's reaction..too much work on your part..too much HE SAID, SHE SAID...
I totally agree that this team is the BEST thing DSS has going for him right now. I am open for ideas on just HOW to do more to make sure he stays on the team. Asking Drac directly will not do it. Plan B or no Plan B, communicating and disagreeing with him on this will do no good in my opinion.
EXACTLY..let the TEAM stuff GO...you've done all that you can about this..probably too much...
His A with the Ho is over, but the last thing he's going to do is come back to me and our M. That is his life. That is his choice.
His A is NOT OVER until you have a NC LETTER...
Don't make any NEGATIVE ASSUMPTIONS such as this...
Mimi,
The last thing I'll say on the football/coach issue is that this coach is also the school counselor. He is aware of the situation with Drac and that he can not give up the fact that I have been speaking to him about DSS. He sees that for now, I am the only active parent for DSS and has been acting accordingly. I will have to trust in his discretion and rely on his professionalism to keep the communication I have had with him in confidence. I expect that he will, as I suspect he could get into trouble for discussing a student with me, as I am not legally his guardian or parent.
It's hard not to make negative assumptions,,,,,I think in a way it's the "Hope for the Best, but Prepare for the Worst" for me.
I am relying solely on my faith as this point in time. Recent teachings I've been working on,,,,,,,,,,,Looking PAST what I see and relying what I KNOW God can and will do for me. TRUSTING God for all things.
So, yes, I likely spend too much time thinking/wondering about Drac. I haven't totally let go. He's still in my heart and on my mind.
Maybe, for some people, their WS will always have a place in their heart. Hopefully, we get to a point where we think about it very little. But it's always under the surface. I can't imagine being able to say, "I'm completely over this, doesn't cross my mind anymore."
My aunt's 1st husband left her for another woman. He came home one day, said he was done, left her and the 2 kids, and didn't look back. She's been married to my uncle for almost 30 years. They have a great marriage, 2 kids together and several grandkids. Her life is so much better than it would have been w/ husband #1.
But, when she heard about my situation, the pain she felt back then, resurfaced. She has complete compassion and understanding for me. All these years later, it is still emotional and painful for her to think about. Not that she does very often, but w/ certain triggers.
Maybe letting go, sometimes, means we have to accept they will always have a place in our hearts, but we will go on like they don't.
Bugs:
I wanted to say: "I'm Sorry"
Mimi's being WAY to polite and not telling me to "Shut UP!"
My counsel to you was to make sure the DSS got what he needed for the future.
But that may run counter to a proper Plan B and not help you to restore your M.
I see that in these last few posts.
You are trying to stay dark, and I sort of was recommending that you be less dark. Trying to help you to help your DSS as much as possible. And some of that advice removes pressure from Drac.
This stuff is tough enough with out getting seemingly conflicting advice. Advice in regards to DSS that may be good in the long run, but may run counter to the most important fact, restoring your M and improving Bugs, Drac, DSS and DD lives in the process.
Pardon me, and I will accept the wet noodle.
LG
Oh, LG!!
I realized where you were coming from, really I did. Your heart is VERY much in tune with what boys in particular go through in these situations. Your very close relationship with your DS is obvious, and your acknowledgement of how your actions impacted him are so insightful & to be admired.
It IS heartbreaking what is happening, what happens, and may very well continue to happen with DSS. It is somewhat of a balancing act on my part to do all I can for him while not engaging Drac. Ok, I'll just say it - - IT TOTALLY SUCKS!! Drac sees NONE of it, none of the damage he's done or that he is doing. I pray every day that his eyes are opened to this. Lord, even if it doesn't lead to recovery for us, it is SO important that his eyes at least open to what our kids have been going through!
I can't do that for him. I can't educate him. I can't explain it to him. I can't make him see or understand.
However, I CAN pray that God moves in that way. I've read here that other FWSs have had their eyes and hearts opened and they have done what it takes to help their kids and repair the damage they have done.
Don't apologize for speaking from the heart! That's what is great about this place. Getting input from all different perspectives so that I can consider as many areas of life & this situation as possible.
I'll never cover them all. I'll never be perfect, and that's ok. Just doing the best that I can, as are we all!
So, yes, I likely spend too much time thinking/wondering about Drac. I haven't totally let go. He's still in my heart and on my mind.
I SOOO UNDERSTAND this...I held onto my love for my H..that's the purpose of PLAN B..to PROTECT AND SAFEGUARD your love for H....but TRY to BURY the love WAY DOWN DEEP...so as not to be RULED by your EMOTIONS...
As I speak to you, BUGS, I've been right there and truly understand. Don't think that I am kicking you. I keep trying to help you PROFIT FROM MY MISTAKES.
DRAC is NOT YOUR HUSBAND...
He is DRAC..he is SELFISH, NARCISSISTIC, FOCUSED ON GETTING HIS NEXT DRUG FIX..no, I do not for one minute believe that he has ended his A...
I think he continues to ENGAGE YOU..
He is GOOD AT THE MANIPULATION...
Stop and analyze the situations..
Try to use your HEAD and not YOUR HEART as much as possible...
YOU HAVE A PLAN...HE DOES NOT...STICK TO YOUR PLAN...cause he is trying to steer you off course...
You are DOING WONDERFUL..but he is SLICK...like any known DRUG ADDICT...
Drac sees NONE of it, none of the damage he's done or that he is doing.
EXACTLY..this is where the need for ACCEPTANCE comes in...THIS IS TRUE..right now, he sees NONE of it...
pray every day that his eyes are opened to this. Lord, even if it doesn't lead to recovery for us, it is SO important that his eyes at least open to what our kids have been going through!
I can't do that for him. I can't educate him. I can't explain it to him. I can't make him see or understand.
Keep praying, BUGS..I have NO DOUBT that the LORD will watch over YOUR CHILDREN..."Little ones to HIM belong..they are weak but HE is strong"...
What you say here is RIGHT and TRUE....
I've read here that other FWSs have had their eyes and hearts opened and they have done what it takes to help their kids and repair the damage they have done.
And YES..it can happen...I see my H doing this every single day...He just got off the phone from ME to TALK to our son.."I've got to go to talk to "SON"...Our sons had planned to NEVER SPEAK TO HIM AGAIN...
Yes..KEEP YOUR FAITH.."TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL YOUR HEART"...
Drac sees NONE of it, none of the damage he's done or that he is doing.
I disagree. He sees it. He knows it. He just won't acknowledge it. He's doing his absolute best to ignore it. But he can't hide it from himself. He's just not ready to do what it takes to CORRECT it.
Because he is incredibly selfish.
Sad for DSS.
Not seeing it is what I call THE FOG, LEXX...
When my H was in THAT FOG, HE COULDN'T ACKNOWLEDGE or SEE THE DAMAGE he was doing and he did many INCREDIBLY HORRIBLE THINGS TO ME and THE CHILDREN...
All he cared about was HIM and the HO...the rest of the world didn't matter...
Maybe I shouldn't make the assumption that other WSes are like mine WAS....SORRY...
He's incredibly HURT, SHAMED and EMBARASSED by ALL that he did NOW..but the full recognition of the hurtfulness was a long time coming....
Hey Ladies,
Seeing it, knowing it, acknowledging it, taking responsibility for any of it,,,,, Drac is having None of that for now.
Deep down, YES, he knows, but he isn't about to face it. Right now, as LG has so aptly pointed out, it is all still Bugs fault. Will he face the truth someday? Will he look in the mirror and see himself clearly? I don't know.
I only know I can't make that happen. Yes, I would love to "talk" to my H, the man I know that still lives inside of him. The man whose "core" that Schoolbus talks about is good. It would be a painful, long discussion, but I know that the core of my H is good and we could eventually come to a point of working together and healing. Healing ourselves, healing our M, and healing each other.
But guess what? I know that H isn't any where to be found right now. So all of the above is a fantasy unless he shows up somewhere down the road.
Right now it's exactly like this quote from one of BR's threads about her FWH - at this time in their sitch, his outlook is that of Drac's right now
Instead of understanding that I can make requests, that he can choose to grant or choose to ignore, and that I in return have choices of reaction to his choices as a consequence...
He sees it all as my "controlling" him. He wants to avoid a consequence, and feels that I am blackmailing him into doing what I want.
This is one thing I'd love Drac to understand right now. I have choices, too. As I said, I've gone past just being "mad" at him. I've stepped up to seeing and making choices for me.
DD spoke to him tonight on the phone. As I always do, I left the room and allow them to talk and do not listen in to their conversation. Sometime, I don't know how long, after they hung up, DD shows up at the doorway crying.
From what I could gather, she was upset or as she said "Sad" because she is not getting her visitation with him tomorrow night because he is going to be out of town. She told me that she starting crying on the phone with him, too. He "didn't say much because he doesn't want me to be sad and he'd email you Mommy when his plane lands".
Now, let me say this. She is a VERY bright little girl. She knows how to try to push buttons. I could clearly see that at this point in time, she was somewhat trying to play me. After last week, I know she sees my vunerablility on this.
Question is, how much did she really say to Drac and did he just blow it off?? Is she trying to play him, too? I don't know. Chances are, no matter what, he likely believes I am behind it so that it relieves him of the responsibility.
OOOPPSS. That was probably a disrespectful judgement, wasn't it??? I don't KNOW what he thinks. I am just guessing.
It all isn't going to matter much in another week. I will be "offically" divorced.
Morning!
I called and talked to DSS this morning. He was still sleepy, but we had a nice chat. I got down to a lot more info on the homework thing,,,,,
His "plan" was to "try" to get a night where he had no other homework and THEN do his makeup work! LOL! Typical 13yr old boy for you.
His NEW plan is to do at least one missing assignment per night and turn it in the next day. He said Drac has ck'd his homework the last 2 nights, but I don't think they had any solid plan for the makeup work.
He's also going to call me after school EVERY day to report in. Today he is supposed to talk to the Social Studies teacher on making up his assignment in that class. He didn't call me back the other night because he "forgot" he was supposed to do that assignment, too.
Well, talking every day right after school will help this as much as possible. I can usually tell when he is lying,,,,,. Best I can do for now.
Gotta get DD ready for school.
OH,,,, BTW, I have my highspeed working on my laptop so now I can work from home!! YIPPEE!! Just need to get a bit more organized in the office and drag home some stuff to help out with that. That's my weekend project.
Later!
Morning Bugs,
Not much to add,, just wanted to let you know that I think you are being a great mom to DSS.
Still
YES, you are such a blessing to YOUR SON and I believe that YOU will be BLESSED for your LOVE and CARE for him....
Hold your head up high, Bugs, and realize in losing you Drac stands to lose a TREASURE...
Bless you both for those kind words!!
It wasn't easy today. I called DSS after school. 20 seconds after we were on the phone, he had to go because Drac was calling. I asked DSS to call me back.
We talked about homework. He gave a bunch of 13yr old vague answers. Finally, it boiled down to he has to get ALL of the assignments done tonight and turned in tomorrow. I asked him to call me when he finished.
Well, I just called him a few minutes ago. He was in bed. He's staying with Drac's friends, R & W. He said he was already in bed (which he is NEVER in bed at 9pm) and that they were also, so he had to talk quietly. I also find that hard to believe. I think he doesn't want anyone to know we are talking. Who knows what Drac has said to him in that regard. DSS is Extremely guarded when it comes to talking about anything that goes on in his life when he is with Drac. Hmmmm, wonder why??
DD and I enjoyed having a Wed. night together. She even said she was happy to have a Wed night with me! She called and talked to Drac before his plan took off. She was fine after, no tears this time, for which I was extremely grateful. I try not to make a big deal of her crying episodes. I try to listen, support, and comfort the best I can.
I am feeling exhausted tonight for no particular reason I can think of. I did get a call from my friend, K today. She is married to one of Drac's best friends from when he was growing up. Drac still sees & talks to them. They are aware of what's gone on. While they don't agree with what he has done, C is still his friend and always will be. Drac's been calling C a lot, but C is extremely busy getting his own business up and running so he hasn't taken Drac's calls. He told his wife he "doesn't have time for Drac's petty crap right now". Whatever that means! Apparently this is Drac's m.o., to call a lot when he's not actively "seeing" someone, or that is the story he tells. I took that opportunity to tell K that I am really not interested in hearing about Drac. Whatever he is up to is his problem, not mine.
So, we changed the subject to kids and family and had a nice chat.
I did take time out today, as I worked from home, and took a walk during lunch. Am going to try to fit that in on a regular basis and get back to working out again. I can certainly use the energy!
Have a nice evening all. Am going to turn in early.
Another day comes that I had hoped would never dawn.
I meet this afternoon with my A to sign the final settlement papers for my D. It could be finished as soon as Monday -- - Except I still haven't taken the required parenting class. All that means is that it will sit on the judges desk waiting for me to completed it (I think). I will have to confirm with my A this afternoon.
As I said before, I decided not to get in a hurry about taking the class as you all know, I'm not in a rush to get the D. All week, though, I have thought about this, wondering to myself why bother with any delay.
Drac is no where near the rock bottom that I had hoped for, as far as I can tell. He's determined on this path and isn't looking back from all indications. It may still happen someday,,,,,,,,,,but that day may be far far away.
D or no D, I must continue with my life for myself and the kids.
So, I will call today to schedule the class. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I will meet with my A and sign the papers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I will be Divorced soon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I will be sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I will be alone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I will be OK. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
(((Bugs)),
Sending lots of hugs your way. You are going to be okay. Just because the divorce goes through doesn't mean that you can't get back together if he ever gets his act together. And by that time you may not want him back.
I wonder also if my WHis ever going to hit "bottom". I really thought it would of happened by now. Maybe for some it never happens.
Regardless of what happens life is going to get so much better than the last year or so. It will happen God is there for us.
Still
Bugs,
I come on and check on a few threads here (yours, Lilsis, and a few others) and just want you to know that I have been where you are right now. It's very hard going through a divorce, especially when you are not the one that asked for it...It's not what you wanted. You have fought very hard to save the marriage, and you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and know that you did try. I know it doesn't make it any easier, but you will make it. One day at a time. God still has a plan for you.
((((Bugs))))
Bugsmom,
Hugz from the middle of the big blue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
For Drac, I wish he would bump his nose. Nothing more attractive on a WS than a big zonker on his honker. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
take care,
L.
Still, Robertswife, Orchid,
Thanks for checking in with me and for the encouragement.
I am pretty darn sad today. The papers go to the judge on Monday. He likely won't sign it until Thursday, after he has proof of my attending the parenting class on Wed. night.
Either way, it will be done next week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
It took longer with my A yesterday than I planned. We had to made some slight modificiations to the paperwork. Drac's A apparently isn't big on getting the little details correct, and we added a few more specifics for my protection. They were minor things, that I was at first, hesitant to add, but after recent events, I KNEW were best for me & DD in the long run.
I went to the meeting with an attitude of acceptance. It is what it is being my mantra for the day. It worked really well until I heard what the "problem" was from over last weekend.
Drac wanted his A to make sure that I was clear that I have "NO LEGAL RIGHTS WHEN IT COMES TO DSS".
WTF??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I was SO MAD!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />Of course I know this. Apparently he heard me say to DSS when they were on the phone that I was sticking to the schedule when they were talking about drop off at home vs word on Sunday. He had the nerve to complain that I was going to drop off DSS at home with no one home!!!!!!!!! He had to make arrangements for FIL to be there for drop off???!! UGH! Like he NEVER leaves DSS home alone?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Like I don't know that it is purely at HIS descretion that I get to see DSS? Like I don't know that if he wanted to, Drac could put an end to the visitation with him? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
WHY??? WHY?? God love my A. She told Drac's A that Drac should be kissing my feet instead of giving me any type of hard time about this. Do you know that Drac's A had the NERVE to comment that by Drac allowing me visitation with DSS that Drac is "Giving up HIS quality time with his son?" Now, as my A responded, as his solicitor, that is the correct response from him, but we all know that doesn't fly in the real world.
In the real world, I am someone with NO blood ties to this child, no Legal Obligation, yet I have continued to parent him, to provide for him, to spend time with him, solely at my own expense with no compensation or consideration whatsoever from Drac. Plus, it is in essence, Free Babysitting for Drac, giving him every other weekend totally free to do whatever he wants.
In a small way, as my Mom pointed out, perhaps this was a good thing to happen at this time because it took me from being sad, disappointed, etc. to being MAD. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I need to go get DD up for school now. Will be back in a few.
I had 2 very important conference calls with my boss today that are finally over. Thank Goodness! Just have to file some final reports for the week and am taking the rest of the afternoon off!
I am going tonight to see an Elvis impersonator with some girlfriends and am looking forward to it. I have my Goddess Gear all picked out. Just have to wait for Drac to pick up DD after he gets in from out of town and then I'm off for a night out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I plan to utilize extreme caution tonight with having a drink or 2. It would be really easy to over do it and right now that would be trouble for me. I am feeling very vunerable right now.
I was thinking that this weekend is the last that I will be "Offically" married. People have commented on and asked me point blank why I still wear my wedding ring. I tell them point blank back, "Because I am still married.".
Now the decision comes on whether to still wear it or not. DD most certainly notices if we go out of the house and I do not have it on. Will I be ready or able to explain to her about not wearing it any more? Will I choose not to wear it any more? I don't know yet for sure. I know this has been a topic of discussion on other threads.
For me, on the one hand, I have thought of continuing to wear it because I still plan to conduct my life as a married person. On the other hand, continuing to wear it may give Drac the idea that I am sitting around pining for him still. Although that is true to a certain degree, that is NOT what he needs to believe
Mimi == = Don't flip out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I'm not planning on seeing him where he would notice -- - I am just sure that when/if I stop wearing it, DD will end up mentioning it in front of Drac sooner or later.
I guess I'll have to give it a bit more thought.
I really, really ,really ,really, really, really, really, really, am hating all of this today. Facing the fact - This time next week I will be "single" again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
YUCK.
This time next week I will be "single" again.
You have fought the good fight. Continue to wear your ring until the Judge puts down his pen. Once it's final (barring supernatual intervention - remember my experience 3 days before the final date?), take it off. You are released. You will be FREE of DRAC. Stay dark with DRAC for your own mental health.
Then you can choose to wait for DH for show or go on with your life.
(((Bugs)))
(((((BUGS))))
I understand that one...my ring has been hanging in the bathroom on a chain for some time now...occasionally I would put it on...
I have plans one day to turn it in for something else but I don't know when that day will come...perhaps after the final D-day...LMAO...six months away...
I just wanted to let you know that I'm here thinking about you and understanding the struggle with that issue...
Perhaps down the line I will be in your shoes in regard to being "single" again and the feelings that go with that!
Take care! Enjoy your night and live it up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Now the decision comes on whether to still wear it or not. DD most certainly notices if we go out of the house and I do not have it on. Will I be ready or able to explain to her about not wearing it any more? Will I choose not to wear it any more? I don't know yet for sure. I know this has been a topic of discussion on other threads.
For me, on the one hand, I have thought of continuing to wear it because I still plan to conduct my life as a married person. On the other hand, continuing to wear it may give Drac the idea that I am sitting around pining for him still. Although that is true to a certain degree, that is NOT what he needs to believe
I agree with PrincessMeggy...
This is just my experience, and yours may be different...In my sitch, I took the rings off once the D was final. The rings had become a reminder of the betrayal and all that had transpired...after all, ex-wh had not upheld his vows and the symbolism of the rings had become a source of pain in the days leading up to and after the D was final...that was just my experience, the rings were actually triggers for me at that time...don't know if that makes sense...but I felt emotionally healthier without the constant reminder of what had happened eveytime I looked at the rings, so I removed the rings...It also helped me in moving towards the acceptance phase.
If by chance you and Drac reconcile, you may want to start fresh and get new rings to symbolize new beginnings and a renewed commitment to your marriage...just a thought..
In my case, ex-WH hadn't been behaving like a faithful husband for years before the D was final...so once I was officially released from the marriage I saw no point of continuing to wear the rings..I was no longer a married woman...and it was quite painful back then.
Bugs, you did not ask for this divorce so maybe explaining to your DD that the marriage is over, once it is final, and also explaining to her why you are no longer wearing the wedding rings may serve to clear up any confusion she may have about it. Your DD can see the fact that Drac is not with the family anymore. In one of your previous posts you mentioned that Drac even told DD that you two were not married anymore. All of this must be confusing to her....I'm sure it is reassuring for her to know that both of you will always love her and that you will be the best parent you can be for her regardless of the fact that you are getting a divorce. When she's older she'll appreciate all that you have done. (((Bugs)))
Thanks all for your input.
To lay the ring debate to rest for now. I will wear them until the D is signed. I'll decide then what I want to do. I will likely not wear them. THAT marriage will be over. IF Drac ever dies and H returns, a new realtionship will need to be built. If M is ever in the cards for us again, yes, a new symbol of THAT M will be necessary.
We had a great time tonight,,,, or I guess I should say LAST night. Drac was LATE getting DD. I had a "feeling" early in the afternoon, so I checked his flight status. He was supposed to take off at 3:15. I checked at 3pm and it was already showing DELAYED. I went ahead and called my Mom and asked her to stay wit DD until Drac arrived,,,,, as no telling how late it might end up being.
Drac finally sent notice at 4 pm that his flight was delayed. Although he'd know for more than 45 minutes already that it was delayed. What was the point of that? Anyway,,,,,,,DD tried to lay a big guilt trip on me,,, crying and wanting me to stay until Drac got here. I don't understand what that was all about either. Perhaps she is sensing then "end" or maybe it is something Drac has said, who knows??? Mom was great with DD and I went off to meet my girls on schedule.
Eventually Drac picked up DD. Mom called me to confirm. She said he made a "production" of hugs in the yard,,,and Mom just closed the door and shut off the light. She isn't speaking to Drac either! God bless her!
Tomorrow am going to do some shopping w/Mom and then am plopping my rear end at the pool. It will be the last weekend for it to be open, so I am going to try to relax and enjoy it. Isn't that what every married woman on does on the eve of being single again??
Bugs:
Glad you had a great time, I'm closing our pool this afternoon as well....
Sorry about the circumstances.
(((BUGS)))
LG
Well I didn't get the pool closed up. Yesterday was a beautiful day here, so after spending the morning working inside, I floated around the pool all afternoon. Plus, I figured out that I am going to need to have some help with the cover, so will do that next weekend.
I set up DD's fish tank and will spend this week getting the water right for fish. We'll go this weekend to get some. I am going to start with some cheap ones from Walmart before moving up to more expensive ones!! Am afraid I'll kill them and it will be money "down the toilet" Literally!! LOL!
Well, today is the day is could be Offical. Depends on if the judge will sign before having proof of my parenting class.
No word all weekend from Drac,,,,,,,,,he even brought DD home EXACTLY on time.
What's funny is that after the fiasco and complaint Monday about dropping DSS off with no one home,,,,,,,,,Drac left him home ALONE while bringing DD here to me, for 3 hours!! OMG! Does he NOT see the irony????
Well, time to go to the bus stop.
Later
Hi Bugs, Wow, you are getting ready to enter into a huge transition. I was there 30 some yrs ago. About my rings. I took them off the day the D was final. Then some girfriends and I went to the jewelry store and bought a beautiful replacement, a jade ring encircled with diamonds.
This was on the Divorce day, then we went out and had a ball. I eventually sold those rings and bought a ticket to California, again accompanied with the suport group of girlfriends. It was great.Nothin like romping on a beach with GF's. Yep, those were the days. They kept me grounded and out of the black hole of depression. Keep your GF's near and dear. 30+ yrs later, we are all still friends.
Its just another day BUGS. Try not to put too much emphasis on it.
Drac is seizing any little thing you do as a balm to his guilty conscience. He doesn't see the hypocrisy. And its a control issue. He gets to make all the decisions about DSS, and he wants you to know it. Its ok for HIM to decide DSS can be home alone, but its not ok for YOU to make that decision.
Being single isn't all bad. I think you may enjoy some aspects of it. If/when he comes back, you get to make a new marriage.
For all of the pain, all of the drama, a marriage can sure end with strange amount of quiet. Mine did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
To my knowledge, the D was signed yesterday, so it's done.
Now just hanging out on the D line with Chris. Keeping up with a few other threads.
As Tom Hanks said in Sleepless in Seattle, I remembered to wake up this morning and breathe in and out, so I guess I am doing OK. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Not a day goes by that I don't miss him. Not a day passes that I don't long for what could have been and wonder if it could ever be. Not an hour passes that I don't pray.
I am trying hard to be positive and avoid the pity party. For goodness sakes, , , listen to this story/
Back in the 1940's, a woman's husband leaves her with 3 small children, 2 older boys and a 3 year old baby girl. This woman, in an age where you DON"T get Divorced is left alone. She does not drive,,,even if she did, she could not afford a car.
Due to a childhood accident, she only has 1 eye, the other is glass. She takes the bus in the morning to work at the drug store. After work, she walks to the bowling alley for her night job. Upon coming home in the middle of the night, she stays awake doing work as a seamstress to earn the money she needs for her kids. ALL while running a household and trying to mother her 3 children. NO child support and NO visits from Dad,,,except perhaps 2x per year when he returns from Phoenix dragging along his NEW family.
She does her best, saves her money, scrimps by, makes all of the clothes for her kids just to keep them dresses through the years. Thankfully, she is an accomplished seamstress!
Fast forward - - all of her children graduate high school and lead great lives. She now owns her own home and has for years. She is well liked & respected in her community. Her friends/clients are numeous. She gets daily phone calls, visits, and is taken out at least 1x per week for lunch or dinner with friends.
She made her daughter's wedding gown,,,that was also worn by her eldest granddaughter. She made the bridesmaid's dresses for each of her granddaughter's weddings. She now makes quilts to celebrate the new lives in the family.
Now getting ready to turn
97 next week, my Grandmother is my inspiration and the reason I can NOT have a pity party!
Until last year, she still mowed her own grass for goodness sakes!! She never did re-marry. I know she loves my Grandfather to this day, but will never admit it to any one,,,perhaps even to herself. He passed away before I was born.
I remember Grandma having a few boyfriends over the years. I also remember her telling me why she "broke up" with the one who was long term, she told me "I'm tired of him laying around MY house, eating MY food, and getting in MY way"!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
She continues to do some sewing for a few select clients. She has a nice amount of savings on which she is more than able to support herself and continues to live alone in her own home.
She taught me to appreciate the "finer" things of life. To go for Quality, not just quantity. To care well for the fine things once you do have them. She taught me style and class. That you LOOK like a Goddess when you are out in public!! She is the reason I was voted Best Dressed in school! I didn't have designer clothes, I had the Best Home Made Clothes ever!!
My Mom is bringing her over today to see my house. I think the timing is perfect. I could use a swift kick in the rear!!
Bugs:
You grandmother sounds like a champ!
Goddess'es are descended from Goddess'es!
LG
Bugs, your grandma is AWESOME!
My mom just turned 91, and while she didn't have the same experiences as your grandma, she is also awesome. She also still lives in her own home, still does all her own housework, tends to her flowerbeds, and still sews beautifully, although she doesn't make clothing anymore...just makes the cutest baby quilts and stuffed animals and dolls. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm sure that your grandma will love your new home, and she will likely give you the biggest hug instead of a kick in the pants! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Grandma is an inspiration!
Sounds like you come from a long line of Goddesses!
I think she will be proud of you, for all that you've done.
I know the divorce seems rather anti-climatic, doesn't it?
Mine was signed and finished and I didn't know for a week until I got a copy in the mail. For all the hoopla of the wedding, and all the drama of the marriage -- to just go get the mail when its done seems really weird.
I had a good group of friends who were wonderful. I wouldn't say we celebrated -- but they definitely helped keep my mind occupied, and kept me busy.
At first I had to make a conscious effort to plan activities for my "alone" time. I really heavily scheduled myself, kept very very busy. My kids were much older than DD at the time. So I did happy hours, and pedicures, and movies with friends, met lots of new people, expanded my circle of friends. Met other single women -- they are the most fun to do things with. You don't have that 5th wheel issue like you do with couple friends.
Now I truly enjoy my "alone" time. I like just being in my house by myself reading a book.
For all of the pain, all of the drama, a marriage can sure end with strange amount of quiet. Mine did.
Hi Bugs,
I am now 3-1/2 months on the D-line. You will be pleased how much Plan B has helped you to make the transition. And a very new mind set will come very quickly. You will suddenly realize, “Wow, I really am single.” And the world seems to notice it to without a word from you.
There is a relief that the fight is over and times of sadness (sometimes plain pissed off). But the healing starts pretty quick.
Usually the new guy/gal has to buy the first round at the D-line but in your case I will make an exception.
You fought a good fight for your family. You should be proud. The kids will remember what you tried to do forever.
This is just ME, BUGSY...
I'm still here for you...Care about you...
But the TRUTH IS..DIVORCES make ME sad..and when I read your thread today..almost got a little teary...
I'm HAPPY FOR YOU..that you have GROWN into such a WONDERFUL PERSON..
But no HAND CLAPPING from me..this is not just ANOTHER DAY..that's a slap in the face of MARRIAGE..which is meant to be TIL DEATH DO YOU PART...WHAT GOD HAS BROUGHT TOGETHER..LET NO MAN PUT ASUNDER...
I think you should take time out to GRIEVE this..and do not sweep the sadness of this for you under the rug...
((((BUGS))))
Bugs - I got this in an email this morning. I think the timing fits for you right now.
A young wife sat on a sofa on a hot humid day, drinking iced tea and visiting with her Mother. As they talked about life, about marriage, about the responsibilities of life and the obligations of adulthood, the mother clinked the ice cubes in her glass thoughtfully and turned a clear, sober glance upon her daughter. 'Don't forget your Sisters,' she advised, swirling the tea leaves to the bottom of her glass. 'They'll be more important as you get older. No matter how much you love your husband, no matter how much you love the children you may have, you are still going to need Sisters. Remember to go places with them now and then; do things with them.'
'Remember that 'Sisters' means ALL the women... your girlfriends, your daughters, and all your other women relatives too. 'You'll need other women. Women always do.'
What a funny piece of advice!' the young woman thought. Haven't I just gotten married? Haven't I just joined the couple-world? I'm now a married woman, for goodness sake! A grownup! Surely my husband and the family we may start will be all I need to make my life worthwhile!'
But she listened to her Mother. She kept contact with her Sisters and made more women friends each year. As the years tumbled by, one after another, she gradually came to understand that her Mom really knew what she was talking about. As time and nature work their changes and their mysteries upon a woman, Sisters are the mainstays of her life.
After more than 50 years of living in this world, here is what I've learned:
THIS SAYS IT ALL:
Time passes.
Life happens.
Distance separates.
Children grow up.
Jobs come and go.
Love waxes and wanes.
Men don't do what they're supposed to do.
Hearts break
Parents die.
Colleagues forget favors.
Careers end.
BUT.........
Sisters are there, no matter how much time and how many miles are between you. A girl friend is never farther away than needing her can reach. When you have to walk that lonesome valley and you have to walk it by yourself, the women in your life will be on the valley's rim, cheering you on, praying for you, pulling for you, intervening on your behalf, and waiting with open arms at the valley's end.
Sometimes, they will even break the rules and walk beside you...Or come in and carry you out. Girlfriends, daughters, granddaughters, daughters-in-law, sisters, sisters-in-law, Mothers, Grandmothers, aunties, nieces, cousins, and extended family, all bless our life!
The world wouldn't be the same without women, and neither would I. When we began this adventure called womanhood, we had no idea of the incredible joys or sorrows that lay ahead. Nor did we know how much we would need each other.
(((Bugs)))
Hi Everyone.
Since I'm working from home, I am able to get on my personal computer and post, Thank Goodness!
First, thanks EVERYONE for checking in with me. Each of you brings something very special to my day, for which I am ever so grateful.
Mimi, it's so funny how you seem to read me every time. How did you know I'd had a HUGE sobbing crisis this morning?
My Grandma & Mom had just left. Grandma was so impressed and thrilled with the house, as I knew she would be. I read Chris's post about things eventually getting easier. I know they will, that wasn't the trigger. I then read that my kids will forever remember how I fought for my marriage and it set me off.
And I feel so GUILTY in addition to feeling so incredibly sad. How can I feel so sad, so unhappy when I have been so incredibly blessed? I sit here in a beautiful home, I have a great job, decent income, I don't have to worry about how I am going to pay the bills or have food for us to eat like SO many here do - - like my Grandma had to and my oldest sister had to. I KNOW I am indeed watched after.
Yet, it HURTS so much. I just kept telling God how sorry I am if it seems that I am unappreciative or ungrateful.
Then I got a message that Drac wanted to know if I'd want to pick up DSS from the dr office Friday afternoon. He has a check up appt.
There went another trigger.
Miss Meggy, your BEAUTIFUL post above just totally did me in! Don't get me wrong, I LOVE IT! That is why I am posting now instead of working. You are all my Girl(and boy)Friends. Who else would truly understand how miserable I feel right now?
Most folks are giving me the "It's good that it's finally over so you can move on" speech. I know they care & are trying to help.
I'm just not THERE yet. I still love my husband. I still want my marriage. As you say, Mimi, I still need to grieve, so I am going to allow myself to do so today.
Thank you ALL for understanding and for always being here for me.
Thinking of you, Bugs.
((((bugs))))
Fox
(((Bugs))),
It's okay to grieve. We all are there right with you.
Still
Thanks, Wild & Still.
I will only say that today sucked.
((((BUGS))))
DId we trade places today? I sobbed yestterday and SUNDAY...
I think that it does get better...I have fiath that it does anyway...
Thinking of you! YOur Sister Angel, with new tools...LMAO...well some!!
Hey Rin,
I am so happy you are getting some tools! To be back home with so much to do and no tools?? The fact that you pulled yourself back from the brink had to be hard for you, but you did it!! I am really proud of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I gave myself permission yesterday to just let myself feel as horrible as I did. It wasn't pretty. I did keep DD from knowing it, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
So for today, my promise is to do better - for her. Dont care much about doing it for me yet, so am going to do it for her. Looking down on her sleeping angel face last night, I knew I could do nothing less.
So, am putting on my game face today. Going out to conquer the world again. I am a successfull, smart, intelligent professional woman - - I just need to remember HOW to do that again today.
Am taking it one day at a time for now, because I really am not ready for any more than that. Today will be challenge enough. I have to take the court ordered parenting class tonight and I am NOT looking forward to it. To be honest, I am dreading it. I don't want to sit there listening to someone tell me how I have to get along and be "friends" with Drac for the sake of the kids.
I think I'm getting MAD again just thinking about that. I am supposed to STUFF my hurt and anger away. I am supposed to STUFF down the damage he has done dragging the HO into my children's life and be nice? UGH, my stomach is just churning!
I am supposed to act as though a family that has been ripped apart is BEST for my kids? Don't get me wrong, I will do my best to keep my kids out of the middle of things but I didn't create this situation to begin with. They should not be "in the middle" of anything but an intact, complete family unit. THAT is what is best for kids. JMHO.
Ok, so I don't KNOW that it will be that way at class, but if I were a betting woman, I'd give it 90% odds. We'll see. I'll TRY to keep an open mind. Mom is coming over to be here when Drac drops off DD after his visit, so atleast I don't have to worry about hiding out for that wonderful event!
Gotta run - - I have a world to conquer.
Thanks for checking in!!
I wish I had more to give you than a cyber-hug, Bugs. I feel for you.
(((Bugs)))
BUGS:
Sorry about the class tonight.
Wish it was the MB Weekend you were going to instead.
Betcha a dollar that Drac is sitting at home wondering "how did I get HERE?"
Every time he makes that 3 hour round trip he can think about it some more.
((((BUGS))))
LG
Hey guys, thanks!
I had a better day yesterday. MADE myself focus on work and did better. Not SUPER, but better.
As expected, class just sucked. I learned nothing new and was really just depressed looking around the room and hearing some of the stories of others there. What pain there was in that room. I could actually "feel" it in the air. It really was HORRIBLE.
Normally in those settings, I feel the need to participate, to help out the instructors by giving SOME kind of feedback. Not last night. I was totally quiet. I did my time, filled out the paperwork and got outta there as fast as I could. Mostly I sat there feeling angry with Drac for the fact that I had to be there at all.
Mom was home for DD when Drac dropped her off. Apparently they had dinner, LOOKED AT A HOUSE IN MY NEW TOWN, and went to the car wash and washed Drac's car.
Yes,,,,they looked at a house in my town! I just don't know what to think about that. I decided to use a phrase my Mom taught me long ago, "I'll cross that bridge IF/WHEN I come to it". SO many things have gone through my mind on that. I am going to post about that later,,,,
DD woke VERY early with a nightmare. Poor baby. That doesn't happen often. I'll have to see if she wants to talk about it more to find out what's going on with that. She may be coming down with something.
Well, I have an early conference call with a customer, so am going to prepare for that. Here's hoping I can get another Good day's work in today - while keeping those thoughts of him moving close at bay!
Hey Bugsmom.. you've given me so much help and support in the brief time I've been here.
I'm sending prayers your way in hopes that you will find peace, and a few moments of Zen where you can remember to live in the moment, and appreciate it for what it is.. another day that God has blessed you with to be who you are for yourself and for your kids.
You are a wonderful, strong woman, and you can and will get through the tough times that life throws at you. Just remember that every time life seems to weigh you down, you build more inner strength to pick yourself back up.. that strength will never go away.
That which doesn't kill us, does indeed make us stronger.
You'll be fine.. sometimes it won't feel that way, but know that your strength will get you through.
Now I just need to take some of my own advice.
*hugs*
Hey James!
It's hard to argue with a man that quotes from one of my favorite movies - Steel Magnolia's -
Did you know this line is in that movie?
That which doesn't kill us, does indeed make us stronger.
LOL!
Seriously, thanks for your kind words. I am pleased to hear that someone is finding help here from me & my sitch. I think you are doing extremely well.
I haven't posted today on your thread, as I am still trying to decide my thoughts on your sitch. I think it is DEFINITE that you fight for you child, but I am thinking your WW needs some Plan A,,,,,,However, being no expert myself, I am still pondering my thoughts on that.
I think you did an excellent job in your conversation with WW by the way. Of course, as you have been told, not much, if anything will get through that fog right now. However, perhaps someday she WILL remember what you said.
I gotta run, but wanted to say THANKS to you, too. Hang in there.
Bugs,
Not much to add.... I remember sitting in that class also about a year ago thinking what will this really teach our kids? That the most important person in our life can hurt us beyond repair but we are suppose to suck it up and make nice. No consequences at all.
Just venting... you are a strong woman and don't you forget that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Still
Just wanted you to know that I've been thinking about you. Bugs, I hope that YOU know that however this turns out you can be proud for the way that you've conducted yourself. You've taken the high road throughout this whole mess and have taught your daughter and DSS a very important life lesson. That no matter what comes your way, you face it head on, even if you're shaking in your boots or feel like walking away... and you do it with dignity. You have grown so much.
As for DRAC looking for a house in your town, whatever his reasons, I'm not really surprised. It is obvious how much he really depends on you. That may be sinking in big time now.
(((Bugs)))
>>It's hard to argue with a man that quotes from one of my favorite movies - Steel Magnolia's -
>>Did you know this line is in that movie?
Yeah.. I did.. not sure it started there, but it's a saying I've started taking to heart.
Hang in there together with the wonderful support group we've both found in our friends here.
Don't thank me yet.. I'm far too needy of help and I'm sure I'll be in a severe 'thank you' debt to you before this one is all over..
*hugs*
Hey Bugsy,
Thanks for posting about your grandmother. She sounds like a fine lady. I'm sorry to hear about the divorce. I don't think there is much I can say that others haven't. Just that I'm thinking of you.
You are a very strong person, Bugsy, and I admire you. Don't forget to let yourself grieve when you need to. Just because the D is final, does not mean that this is the end of your sitch with DRAC. I still think Plan B is the best thing for you. Anyway, hugs to you lady.
Bugs, just reading about the class you had to go to tells me that you're way stronger than me.
And I agree with SL. Stay in Plan B. Divorce is only the endpoint if you choose it to be that way.
(((Bugs)))
Thanks so much everyone for the great support & kind words.
I don't necessarily see myself as being really strong, but just getting by one day at a time. As you read, I have great role models in my life & try very hard to live up to the examples they have set.
I said this morning that I would post about my thoughts regarding Drac possibly moving to my same town. I've thought about it off and on all day. My original reaction is the same as yours, Miss Meggy,,,
As for DRAC looking for a house in your town, whatever his reasons, I'm not really surprised. It is obvious how much he really depends on you. That may be sinking in big time now.
However I didn't think of it terms of his relying on me, but more that he will count on my stepping up to the plate to take care of things, especially when it comes to the kids and mostly, in terms of what DSS is lacking right now. I am afraid he will try to manipulate & use me,,,,,and NOT recognize or acknowlege in any way that HE needs me - just that he needs me to take care of the kids.
I could be WAAAYY off base with that, but it was my intial reaction. Not sure if I will stick with that thought, we'll see if it plays out. With Drac, he "talks" about doing a lot of things. Other than divorcing me right quick, he hasn't had a great track record of following through with many of the plans he talks about. THAT is part of what upset me at first, because he's drawn DD into the "plan". What happens for her & her feelings when he doesn't follow through? SHE gets hurt, upset & disappointed. NOT FAIR to a child!
He's laying the groundwork, though. DD left him a vm earlier. He called back & she was off the phone pretty quick. She came and said that "He just wanted to hear my voice". He's playing up the angle of missing her and wanting to be closer to her. Which is interesting as he only spent 2 hours with her yesterday.
She told me tonight that Drac mentioned something to her about his Dad moving soon?? AND he told her it would be FARTHER away from her. DUMB< STUPID Drac! She already feels disconnected from her Grandpa, the last thing she needed to hear about was him going even farther away from her! UGH! Well, I told her WE would call Grandpa tomorrow night and find out what the story is for sure.
Oh, remember how Drac has asked me "NUMEROUS times not to use the kids as messengers"?
And also remember that I left both cats, the one I bought Drac and the one Drac bought for me at the house?
And remember Drac got ANOTHER cat while living at his dad's house?
DD tells me, Daddy says that "A doesn't like the new cat, and she REALLY misses you Mommy! Daddy says that I should ask you to please, please take A here with us".
WHAT???? I almost laughed out loud. Instead, I explained my reason for not wanting A here and that if Drac wants to ask me about taking the cat, then he needs to talk to me about it. It's not her job to have to deliver messages for Daddy.
I had a message sent to him yesterday requesting him to drop DSS off at my office tomorrow after his doctor visit. I decided that was better than my having to go to the dr office to get him after his appt for several reasons. First, it will save me an hour or 2 out of the office & away from work. Second, it save me trying to figure out exactly how to avoid seeing Drac. Three, it puts the responsiblity for the entire appt on Drac, where it should be.
Drac apparently replied with several accomodating options for me to consider. He could take DSS with him to his office after the appt, and I could get him on my way home. OR he even offered to bring him to my house if someone was going to be here or I could let him know when I'd be home.
WHAT?? On a FRIDAY NIGHT??? Being kind and accomodating to ME???
I just had a reply sent sent that no, take him to Bugs office.
One last Drac update. His good friend, C, told me that he agrees that Drac has many old issues to face before he can be happy with himself or anyone else. To quote him, he said, "Drac has the soul of the kind Dr. Jekyl, but the heart of Mr Hyde". Prett accurate. He said he has talked to Drac just one time briefly since our court date. He says that since the 4th grade when they met, Drac ALWAYS pulls away from him when he is ashamed and/or hurting.
So, perhaps I should be glad that he hasn't heard from Drac much? It could be a sign of Drac's finally coming close to seeing what he has done or perhaps moving closer to hitting bottom?
Opinions on any of this anyone?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Maybe it's not any of those thing. But, you know what, I DIDN'T think about that question nonstop today. It crossed my mind. I acknowledged to myself that YES, I do hope that is the case and then I moved on with what I needed to do.
I had another fairly productive day at work, which helps me feel better about myself. Other than a new boss who is driving me & my co-workers crazy, work is good!
Someone asked me on the phone why I was in such a good mood today. I told her, "I am not in a good mood. In fact, my mood kind of sucks right now, but I a made a decision. I can wallow in it or I can suck it up and atleast act happy. It eventually helps me 'feel' happy." And it did. For today, it worked.
One last question before I say good night - - Did anyone else notice that big, bright, beautiful moon tonight? It was spectacular,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but it scares me a bit. You never know what is going to happen when it's a full moon! LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I am going to hit the bed a bit early as I am waking really early lately and need to get some rest. Maybe I'll be up early enough for a workout tomorrow am! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Night all and thanks again for being here!
Mah-ve-lous Bugs,
Well I just caught up on your sitch and I am both happy and sad for you.
Happy for the fight in you to go the distance.
Sad that the D has become reality for you.
Thank you for your kind words to me recently, all in the midst of your own heartache and pain.
A friend shared this with me today and I thought it was appropriate for you:
Once there was a young man who proclaimed to have the most beautiful, flawless heart. An old man challenged him. The crowd looked at the old man's heart. It was beating strongly, but full of scars. Some pieces had been removed and others had been put in, but didn't fit quite right. The old man looked at the young man, "I would never trade my heart for yours. Every scar represents a person I've given my love -- I tear out a piece and give it to them. Sometimes they give me a piece of their broken heart, which I fit along jagged edges. When the person doesn't return my love, a painful gouge is left. Those gouges stay open, reminding me that I love these people too. Perhaps someday they will return and fill that space."
We all know that emotions are a vital part of the way we are made. Yet we can't understand why it takes so long to heal from emotional injuries. We would never prematurely remove a cast or sutures until the broken bone or skin was fully restored. We must realize complete emotional healing requires time. The book of Psalms offers great comfort when experiencing long-term emotions like sadness, fear, and grief. "He heals the brokenhearted, binding up their wounds" (Psalm 147:3).
Hugs for Bugs
(((((Bugs)))))
It could be a sign of Drac's finally coming close to seeing what he has done or perhaps moving closer to hitting bottom?
Opinions on any of this anyone??
It's not worth the energy to worry about anymore Bugs. I keep wasting time waiting for the 115 Lb Wayzilla tomato splat but guess what? It may never happen. She and Gollum are together now and there is a chance they may end up happy for a long time. Or miserable. But either way it has nothing to do with me anymore. Time will heal.
Hey Guys!!
IAPBS, what a beautiful story that was! Thank you so much for sharing with me! I love the visual I have from that.
Happy for the fight in you to go the distance.
Sad that the D has become reality for you.
You know, I don't know about having the fight to go the distance. I don't know what going the distance now means for me?? I am trying to figure that out right now. Yet, I am not spending a whole lot of time on it. I just think I will know what that means at the right time.
I'm not thinking in terms of having a deadline or a point in time where I think of "giving up". I am thinking only in terms of living my life on a daily basis. I look forward, yes, to some things in the near future. I think of them in terms of the reality of it being just me & the kids without Drac. But, I don't get bogged down in it or the details of it. Nor do I think of any event in terms of "Drac will NEVER be a part of this with us again".
It's hard to explain. I don't feel like my love for Drac is gone forever. A bit of it is still locked away. A bit of me is still hoping for his return and recovery for us.
Yet, I don't think about it non-stop. I don't go down every possible "WHAT IF" path. It just remains a hope.
Chris, you said
It's not worth the energy to worry about anymore Bugs. I keep wasting time waiting for the 115 Lb Wayzilla tomato splat but guess what? It may never happen. She and Gollum are together now and there is a chance they may end up happy for a long time. Or miserable. But either way it has nothing to do with me anymore. Time will heal
I know that you are right. For me, right at this moment, it is right "to a point". I don't waste an inordinate amount of time on this. It does not rule my every waking moment the way it once did. YET, I do allow myself time to think about it at certain times. For me, it is part of keeping that bit of hope alive,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for now.
I admire you so much. I am impressed with your ability to see and SAY what you did above. That takes such strength. Some day, I expect I will be at the same place, but just not yet.
The truth is, I really DO want to see the arrival of the Karma Bus for Drac. Because if it doesn't come, I don't think he will EVER try to face what he needs to about himself and his past (not just regarding us). If he doesn't do that, he will never find true peace or happiness. Don't get me wrong,,,,I don't want that peace & happiness for him and the HO!! eeek!
I DO want it for the man I love. Part of that is in the hope that we would have a chance to recover, but mostly it is for HIM to grow & heal. For him to be the BEST dad possible for our kids, he needs to find the way.
I think I've begun to ramble here,,,,,,. I hope this makes some kind of sense to someone out there! LOL!
Time for the morning routine! Hope you all have a GREAT Friday! I intend to! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I think I'm already getting to the same place in regards to my WW.. the way she's thoughtlessly hurting the kids makes it really easy for me to be angry with her, and turn off the hopeless feelings of the love that is quickly draining to nothing for her.
It's all about the children right now, and my WW and your Drac know that it's the easiest way to hurt you, trigger you, and find a way to try and control you from a distance.
It's almost fortunate for me though that she's completely cut off DSD.. it means I have nothing left to lose in fighting for my son.
I too want my WW to find peace and happiness, and I know she will not where she is at. I simply pray for her when I think about it, and let it go to God. I'm in the process of letting go.. something SDGuy talks about a lot in his thread. It's hard sometimes, but I have to think about it in terms of survival. I need to get back to living life every day and making the most of it. Wallowing will get me nowhere. I'm seeing that you are feeling much the same way.
Be proud of yourself Bugs.. you're a lot stronger than you give yourself credit for. You have a lot of people who care about you.. most importantly, your children.
OK, let me expand a little on having the fight to go the distance.
You fought for what you believed in - you marriage - up to the D being final. You never backed down, never gave up, never lost sight of the goal. You may have stumbled, but you never failed, never laid down and surrendered.
You took care of your self, your kids, and made a new home despite all this.
Now you are right about not knowing what the future holds, but you know who holds the future.
Jeremeiah 29:11 (NIV):
For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
Jeremiah 33:3 (NIV) (our paster refers to this as God's phone number):
'Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.'
I don't feel like my love for Drac is gone forever. A bit of it is still locked away. A bit of me is still hoping for his return and recovery for us.
Yet, I don't think about it non-stop. I don't go down every possible "WHAT IF" path. It just remains a hope.
Fully understand you here - it's the same for me with my WW.
Hi Guys!!
I had a decent, if somewhat frustrating day at work. Glad to be home. Glad to have my kids for the weekend. They are outside playing with the neighbor kids - - that is something they really didn't get to do at our other house, so I am loving that for their sake.
I opened the window so I can hear their laughter. It's the best sound in the world! We are going to stay up late, watch movies, and eat snacks that aren't good for us!!
Drac dropped DSS off at my office, as requested. DSS came in the back door by himself. I didn't know they were there until he walked in. I had pulled my blinds on my office window so no one could see in and I wasn't tempted to look out.
DSS brought in bag with cookies in it for me. It took me by surprise. He & Drac had gone to lunch together and bought them. I just assumed that they'd bought some and these were leftover. Turns out, no, they were bought specifically for me??? I didn't ask whose idea it was - but am even more surprised to have gotten them. It's the only thing Drac has done for me in almost a year.
Now, don't worry. I'm not over the top about cookies!! They are EXCELLENT cookies but I am in no way seeing them as a crack in the armor or a start to recovery!! LMAO as Rin would say!!
IAPBS,
Jeremeiah 29:11 (NIV):
For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
Jeremiah 33:3 (NIV) (our paster refers to this as God's phone number):
'Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.'
Thank you, thank you for these!! Perfect words at the perfect time for me.
Have a great weekend everyone!
The kids just talked to Drac,,,,I usually come into my office to read & post while they are on the phone.
DD just came in to tell me that something has made her "Very Sad".
I asked her what.
"Something you said and Daddy said. Daddy says that A (the cat) doesn't like T (new kitten), and I love her and I miss her but YOU won't let her come here. Daddy asked me what you said and I told him you said NO, because of the cat hair. That's NOT FAIR".
I explained ALL of the reasons for not bringing A cat here. But here I am, the BAD GUY for saying no. She is downstairs crying. I feel like a piece of CRAP and it's all because of DRAC stirring this up. DD was FINE with cat A being at Daddy's until now.
I could just STRANGLE him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
So, is this a manipulation by him for a reaction from me or is it just Dumb Drac (XWS) behavior? UGHGHG!!
I realize on DD's part that part of HER actions are manipulation. But, I expect that from her, she is 6 for goodness sake. How DARE he do this to HER! A$$. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Bugs --
I can SOOOOO relate to you. I had the same situation over a cat.
My XH lives in our old house. Our cat stayed there, for a variety of reasons but mostly it was her HOME. Plus I was living in an apartment until my house was built.
When I moved into my new house I (well really my son...) got 2 kittens for our new house. So we were "set" for pets.
One night, my XH decided he didn't want the cat anymore. So he absolutely TORMENTED my very soft-hearted daughter. He called her and said to say goodbye to the cat, because he was going to drive her out in the country and leave her.
He was about to do it right then.
So I have my daughter in the car with me just sobbing and yelling into the phone. I end up having to go to his house so she could run in and rescue the cat.
So I ended up taking the cat. And of course this cat does not get along with the other 2. So we have CONTINUAL cat fights. And every time it happens it makes me ANGRY with XH.
Its TOTAL manipulation on his part.
I would take your time and compose a message to send through your Intermediary. Maybe address him sending messages through the kids at the same time....
What an A$$!!!
Lexxxy,
Hey there. I couldn't sleep and then after reading your post am so mad for YOU! OMG!!
One night, my XH decided he didn't want the cat anymore. So he absolutely TORMENTED my very soft-hearted daughter. He called her and said to say goodbye to the cat, because he was going to drive her out in the country and leave her.
He was about to do it right then.
So I have my daughter in the car with me just sobbing and yelling into the phone. I end up having to go to his house so she could run in and rescue the cat.
So I ended up taking the cat. And of course this cat does not get along with the other 2. So we have CONTINUAL cat fights. And every time it happens it makes me ANGRY with XH.
THAT is incredible! Thank goodness Drac hasn't taken it THAT far,,,,yet. I would hope he wouldn't, but one never knows with an XWS, do they?
After I talked to DD in my office, she left upset and angry with me. I went downstairs after posting. She'd gone to her room and was lying on her bed crying. I talked to her for a bit more about it, but held firm in my decision. I really wanted to tell her to "tell" daddy to get rid of the NEW cat, but I held my tongue & my temper.
That A would not be happy here alone & it was unfair to her to be here all day all alone. It's up to US to do what is best for our pets, even though it may be hard for us. That's what we do when we love someone. She seemed to understand.
I did tell her we were getting our own pets. In fact, we are going to get fish for our fish tank today. She then asked me if she is still getting a puppy. I said yes. We'll find the right puppy at the right time. And, that was another reason for A to stay where she is. It wouldn't be fair to bring here here and then add a new puppy to the mix. We talked for less than 5 minutes, as I did not want to dwell on the whole thing too much. I asked her if she wanted me to leave, she said yes.
I gave her about 15 minutes and went back to ask her if she wanted to come upstairs and watch the movie we'd planned on. She was sitting on her bed, reading a magazine about her favorite singers and was in a perfectly HAPPY mood. We chatted about the magazine & finished up our evening being very happy. So, Score one for Bugs! Guess I handled it OK!
I've been thinking about exactly what you suggest
Its TOTAL manipulation on his part.
I would take your time and compose a message to send through your Intermediary. Maybe address him sending messages through the kids at the same time....
In thinking about this, I have been very hesitant to do this because I think that is exactly what he is wanting. To force me into dialogue in any way he can. He's a smart man. He KNOWS it HAS to be getting to me that he's sending message through the kids. He's doing it on purpose.
I really think that by reacting in ANY way, it's going to be giving him a fix. As I recall being asked/told before -
- Is this an EMERGENCY? No.
Does it REALLY require communication from me? No.
Is DD ok? yes
Then why bother to break the darkness in ANY way?
No reason for now. JMHO, but it's what I'm going with,,,,,for now.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
It is a tactic.
Cookies
Cat
Even LilSis WH's tried to give her the dog back.
Truly wierd the similarities.
Oh, that's right, they are reading from the same book.
No, it's not an emergency.
DD will be upset.
Drac may tell her that he is dumping cat off on a back road.
Let him do it. HOW can that make YOU the bad guy?
Because you let him make you the bad guy.
It's easier for him that way.
So.... Chin up.
It's going to be a beautiful weekend.
LG
Hey LG!
Ok, but to what end? What's the point?
Yes, it IS a beautiful weekend. We had a great day. Went to the store early, came back & were outside all day. Trimmed bushes, raked the yard, used my NEW weed eater, cleaned the garage, kids played with neighbors, helped me with projects. I am EXHAUSTED in a great way!
DD has the neighbor spending the night. DSS is watching a movie he really has wanted to see,,,,,weather is beautiful.
We are going to buy fish for the new tank tomorrow. PLEASE GOD, let them live! LOL!!
Kids talked to Drac & no "issues" that I heard about.
Oh, here's a funny for you. Seems Drac was moving tvs around his house today (am sure he bought new flat screens for the living room & his room). He called here to ask DSS where the remote was for his tv (at 7:45 am! ) and while he was talking to DSS, the tv fell off the bed and SHATTERED the screen!! LMAO!!!
So, apparently Drac is finally working on setting up the house in better order. Which makes sense in the cat story. I am sure that in the piles of stuff he left laying around, the cats used them as litter boxes, which would be why he is looking to dump cat A. I am sure she gets the blame for all of the "presents" he probably found in those piles!! HE HE HE!!
What is up with calling here so darn early?!? Oh, dear me, how could I forget? The ENTIRE world should revolve around Drac and what he needs at any given moment!
Well, am going to get the girls settled in with their own movie. Neighbors are very appreciative of me keeping their girl tonight - - the Dad just got back today from 3 weeks in Hawaii for work, so this gives them a chance to have their own evening, welcome home party! I hope they take advantage of it! LOL!
Hey LG!
Ok, but to what end? What's the point?
If there's anything that I'm coming to the clear stark realization of, it's that when WS's are acting like WS's the only way they can truly think of to show that they still care is to try and do things that they know will affect you emotionally and get you all wound up about them all over again.
It's a tactic to reassure them that they still have some control over your life, or perhaps to reassure them that they are still a part of it.
Water off a duck's back.. breathe.. focus on now. Say the serenity prayer and move on.
Oh.. and go look at the wonderful advice you've been giving to other people.. and make sure to follow it yourself. I know that's the tough one for me. Often we know what we ought to be doing, even when our hearts scream at us otherwise.
Hope you're having a wonderful weekend. Don't let Drac ruin it for you.
(((((Hugs for Bugs)))))
Hi Bugs. Just checking in and catching up. I've been following from a distance...you are just too close to where I am, and it's kind of gut-wrenching.
I am without kids this weekend. I hate these weekends. I wake up in the morning feeling SO alone. I don't know HOW WH can stand it: he's alone much more often than I am, and he CHOSE it.
Then again, he's not really alone, is he? He has RT. And even when she's not around, he's got his parents, since he lives with them. Now thats fertile soil for emotional growth, doncha think???
Anyway...I totally, completely, perfectly understood what you said the other day in response to chris:
I admire you so much. I am impressed with your ability to see and SAY what you did above. That takes such strength. Some day, I expect I will be at the same place, but just not yet.
The truth is, I really DO want to see the arrival of the Karma Bus for Drac. Because if it doesn't come, I don't think he will EVER try to face what he needs to about himself and his past (not just regarding us). If he doesn't do that, he will never find true peace or happiness. Don't get me wrong,,,,I don't want that peace & happiness for him and the HO!! eeek!
I DO want it for the man I love. Part of that is in the hope that we would have a chance to recover, but mostly it is for HIM to grow & heal. For him to be the BEST dad possible for our kids, he needs to find the way.
Amen, sister. You were not rambling in the least. At least not to me. I could have said the same thing.
One thing I have to say in Drac's "defense," (yuck!) is that he at least takes the time to connect with the kids. WH never calls, never emails, never communicates with them at all when they are here, at home (which is of course most of the time).
Maybe that's no consolation, and having him communicate with them looks like it may be harder for YOU, but at least the kids know that they EXIST to him when he's not around.
And I never took the dog, either. I got a new one--OURS. It seems to have worked out very well in terms of distracting (for lack of a better word) the kids from the fact that WH essentially pawned the dog (and the cat!) off on someone else and they never even got to say good-bye (probably because WH was too chicken to tell them).
(I've wondered if they were pawned off on RT, but she has that stupid designer dog and HATES cats.)
You are doing great, Bugs. And we are not alone, none of us. Thanks for being here this morning so *I* don't feel so lonely....
Bugs:
Did God tell you it was over or did the attorneys ? If God has not told you it is over then remember to keep praying for Drac. Pray for his salvation, that his heart be softened and that the fog be lifted off of his eyes. And remember to pray every morning that a hege of thornbushes be put around him to keep the evil influences out of his life.
God will tell you when it is time to go on.
Last weekend after speaking to my WS I was thinking this is it. I decided to go to a church I never go to. On the way there God's rays were shining down lighting my path from the left and the right side. I was talking to God, saying "Ok God, is it time to give up and move one. Is it over, what do you think Lord? " When I got to church the normal pastor wasn't doing the sermon because he just got out of the hospital. But he walked up to the pulpit and said that God gave him a message for someone who is struggling with divorce and not knowing which way to go. He said that God told him to give me the scripture from Job about never giving up.
We have to remember God is patient and takes his time refining us. It may be that he is refining Drac, or it may be time to move on. Don't do it yourself, do it with God's guidance.
I really feel for you. I know how hard this is.
(((((BUGS)))))))
All,
Morning everyone. It's a beautiful sunshine day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
James, thanks for checking in. I think you are right about the WS's need to prove they have some kind of influence, if not actual control over us. Which I find disturbing and FUNNY. They are so done with us, yet won't just go quietly into the night??!!
You are doing VERY VERY well, by the way. Thanks for the hugs!!
Sis,,
I've been following from a distance...you are just too close to where I am, and it's kind of gut-wrenching.
EXACTLY how I am about your & your sitch!! Yet, I DO continue to follow along and keep up with you. Despite it being difficult at times because we are very much at the same place, I find I do get a lot out of keeping up with you and the input you get from others is a benefit to me, too. It is VERY nice, in a way, to read that I am at the same place, with the same kind of feelings as someone else.
It's the "I am NOT crazy" realization! LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for stopping by and for the great support!! I am feeling today, that I am strong enough to leave Drac totally alone. He's not going to be clouding my thoughts today.
Am taking the kids to the store in a few minutes to buy our fish! 2 Angel fish for DD and 2 baby sharks for DSS. Should be interesting! They tell me the sharks won't eat the angel fish,,,,,,I pray they are right!!
Am taking the neighbor girl with us - that should be interesting!
After that, am finalizing the pool closure. Then, am taking the kids to a corn maze. The weather is perfect.
Then on to taking DSS home,,,,,,,,,am not going to worry about the drop off or seeing Drac. For some reason, today, it doesn't seem like the big deal it used to be??
Hmmm, wonder what what means?
Ya know what? I am not even going to spend any time wondering about THAT either. Am going to spend my time today in the MOMENT at hand and just ENJOY.
Wishing the same for you all!
I just remembered that I didn't get the mail yesterday and just got it when DD & I came home from dropping off DSS.
Letter from my A. Seems the judge cancellled her entire docket Mon. due to a family emergency. My D won't be signed until tomorrow. Seems Drac didn't sign HIS name to the paperwork until Friday? My A states "assuming it was accomplished without incident".
So, I guess Drac was supposed to go to court and sign it all there but didn't when it was canceled? I am REALLY glad that I did not know any of this! It would have just messed with my mind and my emotions. This way, tomorrow is just another day.
Guess the cookies were a "thank you" for going along with the D?!
Drac is still being the a$$ about the cat. DD went in to tell him hello when I dropped of DSS. She came out, got in the car all sad & started crying.
"Daddy's getting rid of A because YOU won't take her and she doesn't like the new cat T".
I basically told her that i was sorry to hear that, but that is Daddy's decision. I don't understand it, but that's HIS choice. I am sorry that makes her sad.
She was pouty,,,but rebounded a short time later. We drove thru McDonald's and sang songs all of the way home. She's getting a cold, so is really tired.
Oh, DSS ran back out to the car tonight to show me his report card. All of his grades are up from the progress report, but he's still getting a D in Social Studies from doing his project so late. Atleast he's not failing.
He's lost his phone somewhere around my house,,,so I'll have to track it down and mail it to Drac.
Am trying hard not to think about him or what he's thinking/doing,,,,,,,,,,,,if the final D papers elicited ANY feelings on his part, etc.
Am going to get DD ready for bed.
Morning,
I "should" be working, but am having a hard time getting myself to settle down into it. Despite my determination to keep my thoughts off of Drac, it's not working so well
I "know" it is wasted time & energy wondering about his thoughts/feelings now that the D is going to be final. It all went through my mind last week, and I let it go pretty well. Now, knowing that HE knew it wasn't final yet has me thinking about it all again.
It seems crazy, but I just keep picturing HUGE PURPLE DOUBLE DECKER KARMA BUS RUNNING RIGHT OVER THE TOP OF HIM. Where is that darn thing???
I realize it may never happen, but I really, really, really want him to say to ME or ANYONE,,,,,, "I realize that things with Bugs weren't really all that bad. In fact, I realize that I really gave up a good thing and I have been so stupid and selfish".
Does that sound terribly sad & pathetic?
Don't get me wrong. I know I am going to be OK. I know that life goes on. DD, DSS, and I will have a fine life. It's NOT the life I want, but it will all work out and we will all be happy. There ARE great things & opportunities,,,,,,and yes, even love waiting for me in the future. I'm still stuck wanting that to include Drac.
Well, am going to FORCE myself to do some work.
It seems crazy, but I just keep picturing HUGE PURPLE DOUBLE DECKER KARMA BUS RUNNING RIGHT OVER THE TOP OF HIM. Where is that darn thing???
Hopefully going by Wayzillas!
I realize it may never happen, but I really, really, really want him to say to ME or ANYONE,,,,,, "I realize that things with Bugs weren't really all that bad. In fact, I realize that I really gave up a good thing and I have been so stupid and selfish".
Does that sound terribly sad & pathetic?
Sounds pretty normal. I thought all the same things. It does start to pass with time Bugs. And they do not deserve to have this control over our lives.
Does that sound terribly sad & pathetic?
Uh, NOPE, not any of the above.
I don't think it's unusual for someone to want something to come from tragedy. An awakening is the best thing, but sometimes, I think you just get regret, or recognition of the wrongdoing, and the poor choices.
Even when the Karma bus does come to run you/them/ whoever down, it doesn't mean that they learn from it. Some will still point the finger at others for their 'misfortune' and not see it as a consequence. Some people are always victims, never really taking responsiblity for self.
Bugs,
When you see that big Karma bus send it over my way, there are a couple of infidels I'd like to see run over by it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Still
Hey guys!
Let's see, I think I will start working on a better schedule and map for the Karma Bus Driver. Frankly, whoever is driving that bus right now is way overdue to visit a LOT of ws's around here! LOL!
I finally realized I was going to accomplish no more work, sent the boss and email & told him so.
Silent,
An awakening is the best thing, but sometimes, I think you just get regret, or recognition of the wrongdoing, and the poor choices.
I would LOVE to atleast have that from Drac. ACKNOWLEGEMENT of his actions being in any way wrong.
Even when the Karma bus does come to run you/them/ whoever down, it doesn't mean that they learn from it. Some will still point the finger at others for their 'misfortune' and not see it as a consequence. Some people are always victims, never really taking responsiblity for self
I am pretty certain this will be Drac unless/until he deals with his own issues. Like I said above, just some kind of acknowlegement that what he has done was wrong would certainly sooth my soul a bit.
Of course, I say that. IF he did admit to having done "wrong", I'd likely be right back on here saying "Well, he's admitted he's wrong,,,, why won't he fix it? Why not work on our M?"
I know that for a long, long time to come, I will accept no less than him realizing his mistakes and working on our M together with me.
I feel like a 3 year old in a temper tantrum. If I can't have what I want, then I'm just going to pout until I get it! LOL!
Seriously,,,,I am really just off kilter today. I did drop my A an email earlier asking if it was signed today. Hope she checks her email yet today. I didn't think it necessary to spend $ on a phone call. She's pretty good about responding to my emails.
Oh, now what am I going to do with myself? Maybe I'll go for a walk.
Just got an email from my attorney, my divorce was signed this morning. She was in juvenile court, but had a vm message from Drac's Attorney, so I am sure Drac was made aware as well.
A friend just emailed me with a soft 2 x 4. Telling me that I am looking at this all wrong. I need to view this as Drac being the one who has lost out here. I have a whole new world open to me. I can do what I want, cook what I want, watch what I want on tv ,etc without answering to anyone. She noted the several "opportunities" I've had to date already ------that I deserve to go out and have some fun.
Well, I guess now there really isn't anything stopping me from doing ANY of that -- except ME.
So, today is the last day of the looking back for a while. Time to strap on the new single persona and move forward. Don't know what exactly that means for me, but I guess I'll figure it out as I move along that path.
In all honesty, I have to say that I likely would be further down that path were it not for my kids. They are still #1. Any "single" life will be tempered by what is best for them first and foremost. Unfortunately, that is also what will continue to tie me to Drac and make the moving forward more difficult for me.
So, I am thinking I will be living more of the "single MOM" life vs the "single Bugs" life for some time to come. That's ok for me for now.
Well then Bugs here is your formal welcome to the club neither one of us ever thought we would join.
So, today is the last day of the looking back for a while.
Nope, it still happens but it does get better as the weeks pass. You just can't let it define you.
I need to view this as Drac being the one who has lost out here.
No one has won in these divorces. But.....I agree, he lost a lot more. He will know it someday. You may never find that out but it will happen.
Gulp. Once again, you spoke my mind (except for that last post, because you snuck across that finish line mere weeks before I am).
You are oh-so-much-more "okay" than Drac. He is a sorry soul. You are NOT. You are coming out of this nightmare a stronger, more enlightened, more compassionate woman with incredible emotional depth.
By contrast, Drac is still in the nightmare, and he's making no attempts to get out. He will just stay there. Not a way to live a life, is it?
OH ((((BUGS))),
Remember, there is no battle won here. It was not the battle of Bugs vs Drac. This is a spiritual battle and God is not done with him yet.
Keep praying for him.
Also remember that God is a refiner, and he is refining you. He has allowed you to go over the fire and thru the fire, but look at how strong you are.
Your weaknesses are reminders of God's strength and suffiency. When you face hardships or are FRUSTRATED by your inadequacies, take a good look at the GOD you serve. HE is bigger than your problems. HE will empower you with a much greater strengh than you can ever generate on your own.
God doesn't want us to dwell on the past or on the future but to live today to it's fullest. Praising him always, and giving thanks for everything.
You are so blessed to have a daughter and a step son who love you. Remember you are a child of God who was created in the PERFECT image of GOD !!!
God knew you could handle this, and he knows that you will use your life to be a testimony for others. Show him how great of a servant you truly are !!!
GOD BLESS YOU TODAY !!!!
Well today is the first day of the rest of my life, as they say.
I just have a quick minute before finishing helping DD get ready for school.
Rather than wallow last night, I called my sister and we went to her house for dinner. Went through Halloween decorations, brought some home with us, bar-b-qued and generally had a nice evening. It's GREAT having family so close now. DD even commented on that when we came home.
She talked to Drac,,,,, he's still stirring it up about the stupid cat. Telling her he'll get her a gerbil or a guinea pig, or even another dog AFTER getting rid of the cat. Turns out, as I suspected, the cat is peeing in the bed because she is unhappy!! LOL!! Amazing to me that Drac can't simply CLOSE THE BEDROOM DOOR like I have always done. The cat doesn't "go" anywhere else in the house. Unlike HIS cat, that pees in the corner of the living room where I cleaned EVERY DAY instead of getting rid of that cat. Guess Drac just doesn't see that corner since he doesn't sleep there?? LOL!
Well, I stuck to my guns that we are not taking the cat. Drac will do what Drac will do. Not my problem.
Gotta run!
Keep that chin up Bugs.. you have every right to be -very- proud of yourself. You're a warrior for your family, and a true hero to your kids.
First day of the rest of your life indeed.. it's pointless to look back and dwell. Keep looking forward lest we trip over our own feet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
have a wonderful day! (((((Bugs)))))
the cat is peeing in the bed because she is unhappy!!
Thought you'd appreciate the following excerpt from an article about this problem I found on catsinternational.com.;)
"Sometimes it takes the skill of a detective to determine what is upsetting the cat. The location of the urine ... marking may suggest a cause. For example, the cat who urinates on beds... is often trying to communicate: ... distress relating to the individual whose belongings are being soiled. ...occasionally, a cat will selectively urinate on items belonging to the individual who annoys ... the cat."
(Could this be the beginning of the karma bus?)<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Mimi,
You must have been posting at EXACTLY the time I was thinking/wondering about you today! We have some kind of psychic connection,,,,, LOL!!
I went and worked from my 'real' office today to help keep me on track for work. It was a pretty good day work wise. I accomplished much more today and feel good about that.
Am going to ask my "little" brother over tomorrow to help me do some stuff to the pool cover to keep it tied down. He just broke up with his GF and is not doing well. He has a alcohol problem that always rears it's ugly head after a "girl" problem. That, combined with the loss of our nephew, his close friend and his having been the one to find him has made him very vunerable to a bad dive. I am hoping I can get him to open up with me.
He is 30 years old, hardly a baby, but he grew up with 3 much older sisters, so he has always been the baby. We are the closest in age & in relationship. James, I think your age is one of the reasons I am so rooting for you. You remind me of him and of the things he could/can be. A good husband, a good father.
I hardly had many thoughts of Drac today. Another friend called who heard about it being "final". I didn't get emotional. I wasn't wistful or sad. As I told her, for now I am ok with realizing It is What It Is.
I did go a bit further in that I think it is Extremely sad. For Drac, that is. He's chosen to walk away from his family and from the BEST thing that ever happened to him- ME. Despite my taking responsibility for my part in not making our marriage everything it could/should be, despite my having grown & changed, despite my willingness to work to make it GREAT for us both - - He chose to sleep around, worry only about his own gratification, drag our children into an adulterous affair realtionship, and just be a selfish jerk. And for what?
As was said here yesterday - wherever he goes, HE will always be there. Until he chooses change, his life will never be all it can be.
THAT is sad.
While, *I* have grown, continue to grow, and have infinite possbilities. I have learned so much about HOW a great relationship CAN and SHOULD be, and have the TOOLS with which to do that, I will share that with someone, but not Drac. That is really a loss for him.
So, as you can tell. It's a good day today. Here's hoping/planning/building/praying/studying/learning/growing/eEXPECTING there to be many more to come.
I did go a bit further in that I think it is Extremely sad. For Drac, that is. He's chosen to walk away from his family and from the BEST thing that ever happened to him- ME. Despite my taking responsibility for my part in not making our marriage everything it could/should be, despite my having grown & changed, despite my willingness to work to make it GREAT for us both - - He chose to sleep around, worry only about his own gratification, drag our children into an adulterous affair realtionship, and just be a selfish jerk. And for what?
As was said here yesterday - wherever he goes, HE will always be there. Until he chooses change, his life will never be all it can be.
THAT is sad.
While, *I* have grown, continue to grow, and have infinite possbilities. I have learned so much about HOW a great relationship CAN and SHOULD be, and have the TOOLS with which to do that, I will share that with someone, but not Drac. That is really a loss for him.
So, as you can tell. It's a good day today. Here's hoping/planning/building/praying/studying/learning/growing/eEXPECTING there to be many more to come.
I see there has been lots of good stuff on your thread lately, Bugs. Talk about wanting recognition of wrongdoing from the WS, sadness over the finality--all things that could have come from my own head.
I'm glad to hear that you're doing so well. Keep up the good work. You have a lot to be proud of.
While, *I* have grown, continue to grow, and have infinite possbilities. I have learned so much about HOW a great relationship CAN and SHOULD be, and have the TOOLS with which to do that, I will share that with someone, but not Drac. That is really a loss for him.
WOW!! THAT SOUNDS WONDERFUL!!!
thanks, Mimi.
You know very well how hard I worked, especially when first coming to this board. I spent a great deal of time reading, studying, changing. I spent time in IC, in self reflection, and journaling. I wanted to change for me, and for the sake of saving my M.
My M is now over. Yet the need & desire to continue to be a "better" me continues. So, I will continue to work on me. I need to do Something positive with the energy that is no longer being spent on saving my M! First thing is going to be about getting a bit more healthy. I am making an appt today with my gyn. Sorry guys,,I won't get graphic, but I haven't had a period since April. I just chalked it up to "stress", but am thinking it's more than that. My abdomen is swollen and I've gained 6 pounds in the last few weeks. EEEK!
DD & I are getting into a good routine here at the new house now. I have Wed. nights open until Drac brings her home at 8. I am going to plan something those nights. As it's my only "free" night, I am going to start with just catching up with friends. Since moving, I've not done as much of that and miss it. I thought about taking a class at the local college or doing a class at they gym as well, but with the holidays coming up, am not going to do anything that is "set", so I will have time to do holiday 'stuff' on those nights.
DD hasn't shared with Drac how truly upset she is over his getting rid of Cat A. She asked me last night to email him FOR her. As gently as I could, I told her no. SHE needs to be the one to tell him. Talk about hard to explain to a 6 year old! How do you explain that the LAST person he would listen to is me?
I didn't hear back from my brother last night. Mom did call me as she had talked to him. He promised to call her every morning when he is leaving for work so that she knows he is on his way and so that she won't worry. I pray he sticks with that.
Well, am off to the shower.
Have a great day all.
Oh - - Rin, if you read this, you will be SO proud of me! I installed a new handle, arm & chain on my toilet last night!! I am trying hard to be the Toolbelt Diva like you! LOL!
Sounds like you're doing really good Bugs.
I'm trying to look at things this way as I enter a psudo Plan B (at least while custody is being determined) with my WW. There are two possible outcomes here.
A) Recover my M
B) Be a happy wonderful single guy again
Either way I win. Recovery obviously is the much harder road, plus you have no guarantees of success or that the other person is even willing to engage in the hard work it will take. Self improvement is so much easier, it only requires willpower to do what you already know is best for you. (which I admittedly am in short supply of these days, but working on it).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you're on the path you're supposed to be on. God has a plan and we must trust it, and embrace the challenges placed in front of us to learn and better ourselves.
I'll be praying for your brother, and hope you hear from him soon. I'll be praying for you that your Dr. visit goes well and nothing serious is going on there.
major hugs for Bugs ((((((((((Bugs)))))))))))
J
Bugs - have you taken a pregnancy test?
Bugs,
That was the first thought that also came to my mind.....
Keep us posted.
BTW I hope I do as "well" as you have done when my D is final.
Still
I can't recall when, but I remember bugs posting about having some SF with Drac. Around the time he was unscrewing the light bulbs.
FCF & Still,
Thanks for the concern, but no, am not pregnant! Drac had surgery a few years ago (thank goodness), and I am very attuned to the PG symptoms (I had 5 miscarriages in my life).
To be extra sure, I did take a test. I can't BEGIN to imagine what that would have meant for my sitch!!
I have 2 questions.
First, I talked to DSS yesterday. He had a health report that was due Tues. We talked about it on Sun. Well, guess what? It didn't get turned in.
Do I contact Drac about that?
I was going to send a note with DSS on Sunday for Drac to be sure he followed up with DSS about it Tues am, but I didn't due to the issue with DSS losing his phone here. I didn't want to cause more drama & was "trusting" DSS to do it and turn it in.
Second question - DD apparently talked to Drac about getting rid of Cat A again last night (I know,, I am tired of hearing about it, aren't you?).
Anyway,,,, DD tells me this morning that she told Drac that she wants us to get back together and then we don't have to get rid of Cat A.
Now, WE all know that the IMPORTANT part of that statement for DD was the Mommy & Daddy getting back together statement, not the cat part. However, I am pretty sure that Drac will think only about the cat part.
Here's where my question comes - I asked DD, "Now you understand that isn't happening, right?"
DD says "Well, that's not what Daddy says"
WHAT?????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I replied, "oh really? So what does Daddy say about that?"
DD, "Well he says maybe someday it will happen"
I don't get this. WHY would he say that? It's not like he hasn't told DD before that it is OVER and that we aren't getting back together. Why back peddle now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I am upset with him saying that to her now because it only serves to confuse her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Thoughts anyone??
Does DD know that you are now divorced, and what that means?
Sounds like DRAC trying to hold onto that last strand of thread that used to make up your quilt of life together. If he tells DD, don't you think he knows that she will tell you? It's a form of manipulation, and it is so wrong to do that to his DD, so wrong (shaking my head).
Is this comment really out of line with what he has been doing lately? Hasn't he been trying to hold onto you, keep you enmeshed, through the kids? SEems par for the course to me.
First, I talked to DSS yesterday. He had a health report that was due Tues. We talked about it on Sun. Well, guess what? It didn't get turned in.
Do I contact Drac about that?
Are you going to continue on in Plan B? If you are, then I vote no. Why not contact DSS directly about it? If Drac's having the conversations with DD about getting back together with you "someday" then he may ask DSS anyways what you wanted. I can't help but think in the back of his mind he'll admire (or feel guilty about) the mother-child relationship you're trying to maintain with DSS. That may go a long way down the road.
I am upset with him saying that to her now because it only serves to confuse her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Thoughts anyone??
That IS maddening and you're right about it confusing DD. I guess I would have said something along the lines of, "I know you would love to see mommy and daddy get back together. But sweetheart, the only way that could happen now is if he came to me and told me that's what he wanted. In the meantime, you want some ice cream?!?
(((Bugs and DD)))
Oh man.. that's a rough one Bugs..
I know it is because if I heard my DSD or DS say that mommy said that to them, I think my heart would leap into my throat. Honestly I'm not so sure I'm ready for that just yet.
It's like last night when I was talking to DSD's grandmother (who had an hour long conversation with WW on the phone the other night, basically railing her for keeping DSD from me and stating that she didn't understand how what was such a strong marriage only months ago wasn't worth working on) who said to me that when talking about our marriage, WW kept saying 'Right now, I'm done'... DSD's GM said that my wife said it like that 4 or 5 times.. always prefacing it with 'Right now'... add to that her dad and sister are -very- upset with her, and she revealed that to DSD's GM and has been telling me the whole time that my IL's supported her decision and saw this coming a long time ago.
It's Fogspeak... maybe some of it's true.. more likely it isn't. If he's not knocking down your door begging for forgiveness and to work on the M.. then beyond the cruelty of getting DD's hopes up for a reunited family.. it means nothing to you.
(((Hugs for Bugs)))
OMG, you aren't PREGNANT are you????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Oh, Mimi, you need to get caught up a bit more,,,,No- Iam not pregnant!
Although I am sitting here laughing at the look that was probably on your face when you posted that question!!
To answer some of the questions -
Yes, DD does know that we are divorced. Remember that I have been very open about how we were STILL MARRIED all of this time, and that I continued to wear my rings.
The other night, an opening came in our conversation, so I did tell her that we are divorced as she had also noticed I did not have on my rings. We talked about it, but did not dwell on it. She understands,,,,as well as any 6 year old can understand.
Yes, I am continuing Plan B. To come out of the darkness now would only serve to hurt me and the personal recovery I am making.
So, Miss Meggy, I like your idea to continue one on one with DSS. THAT is exactly what I have been doing. I call him before Drac gets home just to check in on him. I will continue to do that.
The fact of the matter is, Drac should be checking on his homework with DSS every night. Obviously that is not happening and it is no longer my "job" to make sure Drac does it. However, as DSS's MOM, I will continue to do MY job by checking up on him. Now, many may disagree with this stance,,,,,,,,,that I should be working more WITH Drac on this, and I can appreciate that. However, that won't work for ME right now.
Meggy, I also like your response to DD,,,, that Daddy needs to tell me if he is wanting any type of reconciliation. I already followed up this morning with the "make the statement and move on to another subject". I don't have long conversations with DD about Drac - - - In fact, we rarely have conversations that include anything about him at all. When we do, it's short & sweet and we move on to our own lives.
James,,,you may have had the most direct response to this and I am sure you are correct - -
If he's not knocking down your door begging for forgiveness and to work on the M.. then beyond the cruelty of getting DD's hopes up for a reunited family.. it means nothing to you.
It's funny,,,when she said it this morning, I was more just taken aback VS that feeling of my heart in my throat,,,,which used to be the reaction EVERY time his name was even mentioned.
I need to continue on just as though her comment this morning was never made. They are just words spoken by a XWS to a 6 year old. Until there is any ACTION behind the words, they really don't exist, do they?
Just stay in Plan B like you are Bugs. There is still some room on the dark side of Pluto.
I am very sorry he twisted up your little girl both with the stupid cat and false hopes of reconciliation.
That is cruel.
Way too many casualties on this forum.
I need to continue on just as though her comment this morning was never made. They are just words spoken by a XWS to a 6 year old. Until there is any ACTION behind the words, they really don't exist, do they?
No, and you know that. Stay in your plan B and protect yourself and your recovery.
I like the way you talk to your daughter. I like PM's suggestions, too. Maybe even reinforce that it's not DD's job to bring messages back and forth and that it's not her job to try to repair the marriage (if Daddy wants to fix it, he knows what he has to do).
(((Bugs)))
Chris,
Hmmm, I am liking the idea of the dark side of Pluto. I was pretty upset when they decided it wasn't a "planet" anymore. Makes it even MORE appealing to me!
thanks GuySmiley! I appreciate the support for the interaction with DD. It's tough, isn't it? Going through this ourselves, but worse trying to know the right thing to do or say for our kids!
My brother came over tonight and helped with the final pool closing. We had a great evening. Relaxed talk about "stuff", but specific enough that it was good.
Drac sent M a message 50 minutes prior to the regular drop off time that DD wanted to come home early and asking if I was home and if it was OK. I had the reply sent that it was Ok, and they were here within just a couple of minutes. Obviously, he was right down the street & probably knew I was home. My brothers Hummer was parked in the driveway.
Bro & I were in the kitchen. I don't go to the door, but let DD just come in. Normally, even when Mom has been here, Drac has come only 1/2 way up the yard. Tonight, I glanced around the corner of the wall & Drac was AT THE DOOR. I am sure he didn't see me, but it shocked the heck out of me.
I pulled back and stayed out of sight until DD came in to the kitchen. I was glad to see that they'd gone and bought her Halloween costume. DD said that Drac will be emailing me that the day of Halloween, she can be with me because he "wouldn't have much time". What a load of crap! It's his regular night for visitation AND HIS holiday, but no,,,,, since it's not convenient, he's "giving" me the holiday.
Cool by me! We'll have a ball! They have a Halloween parade here & it's loads of fun! We'll BOTH dress up!
I made a comment to DD that it was lucky that she wanted to come home early so that she had the nice surprise of seeing her Uncle. She said she didn't ask to come home early.
DUH! No big surprise there now is it?
Poor Drac,,,,,losing out on the BEST moments of life. How sad for him.
I tried calling DSS 4 different times this afternoon and never got an answer. I will try again tomorrow. THAT really bothers me.
think I"ll hit the hay early tonight. Need to do a better job at work tomorrow,,,,,didn't accomplish anything today.
Poor Drac,,,,,losing out on the BEST moments of life. How sad for him.
The guy is undeserving of such sympathy Bugsmom.. if only the Ice Queen would shirk her parental responsibilities off on me instead of onto wonderboy and his family I know -I- wouldn't feel the slightest bit sorry for him..
I'd dance a jig... (I'd have to learn how first)
James,
I understand how you feel. The thing is I am not sorry for OW. Heck, I don't know if she's even around any more. All indications are she is not - - but that is not mine to worry about.
Believe me, I've felt the same way you do. As you have been encouraged on your thread, do what it takes to just not give her the opportunities. Take DS and the responsiblities you want, stop waiting for her to "give" them to you. You don't have to wait or rely on her. Yet, easier said than done, isn't it?
You may be right in that Drac does not really 'deserve' my sympathy. And that is one of the reasons I have been able to come to the point of feeling that way - of being able to 'give' him my sympathy.
Just like I've learned here. Love isn't just a 'feeling'. It is something that can be worked on, it can be built between 2 people.
The same can be said for my feeling sympathy in Drac having chosen to miss out on special moments in his daughter's life. Don't get me wrong, YES I've felt GREAT anger at him, and at times, still do. But what does anger get ME? Who does that anger eventually end up hurting? ME, not Drac.
Yes, I felt great pain & hurt as well, AND still do at time. But again, who is most negatively impacted by that? Me.
So, by letting go of the anger & hurt - - or by atleast accepting that I can't change it, I have been able to (for the most part) change my feelings from great anger, great pain into sympathy for him.
But I didn't start to do this FOR HIM. I did it FOR ME. For MY well being - mentally, emotionally, and physically.
Is it 100% all of the time? Heck no! But it's enough of the time that it is better for ME.
Does he "Deserve" my sympathy? No. No more than he still "deserves" my love. Yet I do love him still, although I keep it down deep & locked away as much as I can in order to protect it.
My goodness, if God can forgive me the many many sins I've committed, as a Christian, I must do my best to be like Christ. It's only thru God's grace (and help from MB!)that I have gotten to this point.
I am praying that something today gives you joy enough to dance that "Jig"! ALL men can dance a jig, even if they don't know it! Think Walter Brennan in the Treasure of the Sierra Madre. If Walter Brennan can do a jig, I'd bet you can!
Here's hoping James gets "jiggy with it" today! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Wow.. you know, you're right.
I hope that I can get to a point, and soon where I can be as at peace with my WW as you seem to be.. I do still love her, though I couldn't begin right now to tell you why. She is finding new ways to hurt me daily, which for the life of me I cannot understand.
I don't want to be angry, hostile.. because that's currently my WW's job.. I'm trying my best to be kind, gentle, and loving.. the way a husband and father should be. My son gets that.. my daughter gets that.. my WW and DSD are missing out on a great thing. I know that in my head.. but in my heart I still feel like I'm the one losing.
I'll find reasons to smile today. Hey, I woke up this morning, that's a start.. my dog loved on me this morning.. that's another thing (he's sorta silly in the mornings).. and my shower felt really good.. Made it to work early and am mostly through my morning routine.. and... ITS FRIDAY!!!
I get to see my son this weekend.. now if that isn't a reason to smile, I don't know what is... My boy was so happy on the phone last night to hear that I was going to pick him up from daycare tonight... he does my heart good. I miss him.
Keep the chin up Bugs.. you're a wonderful person, a wonderful mom, and you've proven to be a wonderful friend to this poor stranger.
James,
Now THAT is the right attitude! FIND things to help lift you up.
Honey, believe me, I understand the feelings. The LOSS that you realize and how badly it hurts right now. Give yourself time.
As you have read, unfortunately there are a lot of us here in this sitch, and most of us are all at different places. That is a good thing, though, in that it helps us see the possibilities, the paths that our sitch may take, and it gives us infinite hope in so many ways.
Glad you are finding help here!
What are you doing with your kids this weekend?
Tonight DS, DD, and I are going to a family swim for DD's swim team.. should be some good fun there.
Saturday DD has a softball game, and I think we're going to go to the lake to meet up with some friends of mine and play a little acoustic around a campfire.. share some laughs and some good times. Plenty of kids, family friendly atmosphere.. should be fun.
Sunday 8AM Mass, and then I'm pretty open.. I try not to plan too much on Sundays because I like to have room to be a little spontanious. The Ice Queen will be the first to tell you that I don't 'schedule' well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> BUT I'M WORKING ON THAT.. .and honestly doing a heck of a job if I do say so myself.. should see my calendar on the wall at home.. all marked up!
Oh.. and don't let me hijack your thread by talking about me...
I'm over here on this thread for you.. not for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
James,
No thread jacking problem here! That's why I went ahead and asked the question here. Lots of serious talk over on your thread, so thought you could use the "social" break.
Sounds like it's going to be a great weekend! Outstanding plans!
For me, I had to have Drac notified that I will be out of town this weekend. I told M to include that I left a bag of clothes for DD on my porch and that I still hadn't found DSS's cell phone.
The response was stuff about him still trying to change the billing on DSS's phone to him - but that if I am not in a contract on that phone I could cancel it and DSS can keep Drac's personal phone. (interesting because I've always thought of that as the HO phone).
Also said something about him having plenty of clothes for DD - - M didn't give me the whole thing he wrote about everything, he mentioned that due to time contraints, he'd let me have DD Halloween night and asked if the following night he could take her to dinner.
I had reply sent - DSS's phone IS now billed to Drac (I called about it, and they gave me the information only because I knew Drac's SS #!) The contract ends 12/25/07 and there is insurance on the phone to replace it His choice.
Confirmed I will have DD on the 31st and he can have her Nov 1st "per the standard visitation times"
I had mentioned to M that Drac seems to have an issue with the 'clothes' situation with DD. He has made sure to tell DD that the clothes HE buys are not allowed to come to my house. Not sure how the back & forth went between them on that - - basically I think the gist of what came back from him was that it's not an "issue" and that he is trying to make things EASY and GET ALONG.
When I got home, the clothes were gone, so I am guessing they came and picked them up.
OY,,,,I just hate any interaction with him because it just brings me down.
So,,,,, on to happier subjects. Tomorrow am, Mom is coming and we are going to pick up rental car. (I get a FREE weekend rental due to all of my travel). We are taking a "girls road trip" out of town for a wedding tomorrow. Spending the night and coming home Sunday. I am getting kind of excited about it.
I made sure that all Drac knows is that I am out of town. He has a land line # to reach me in an emergency. DD doesn't even know that I am going out of town, so she won't have to answer any questions if he pumps her for info. He used to do this - - not sure if he still does, but I figure it is easier on her if she has nothing to tell.
I love my Mom & we are such great friends. She hardly gets to GO anywhere, so I know she is really looking forward to this.
I have all my laundry done, dishes done, and even did the trimming on the yard when I got home tonight. So, I shouldn't have much to do when I get home Sun. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Have a great trip. I would so love to take such a trip with my aged mom. I posted to you before about my divorce celebration over 30 yrs ago. I was so glad to be rid of him! I know that is not your situation. Just so you don't think bad of me, though he never laid a hand on me during marriage, he began wailin' on me after the divorce was final. He actually choked me into unconciousnes 3 months after the final decree. He broke into my house and laid in wait for me 6 months after the D. and had his way with me. I came down with HPV cervical ca. that almost cost me my child's life 2 yrs after our D. Back in the day, the courts sort of looked at his thumpin on me and raping me as a "domestic" thing, never could get a restraining order, but i sure as H$ll got a big ole doberman. and then I got my H who was large and n charge.
And then the abuse stopped in it's tracks. He didn't want to pay CS, so he let my H adopt our child. Can we say "winner" Over 30 yrs later, NC with xA$$holeH, and my child never having a memory of him, it's all good in my case, but then, going for life with NC with an XH like I had was awesome for me. Just so you know, my sitch.
GF
Hope your trip is going well!! I've actually avoided a few weddings the past few weeks.. kinda feel like I'm a bad omen right now... I know it doesn't make sense but hey.
DS has a pretty bad case of the runs (yeah.. I'm a ray of sunshine on this thread right?) since Friday.. so we managed to do the softball game and very little else.
On the -upside-... I've finally gotten him excited about doing #2 on the throne!!!! Ok.. he's 3.. and it's been almost a year struggle.. he's got no problem with standing.. but he doesn't like to sit still long enough to complete the transaction as it were.... so it's a victory, and dispite his tummy feeling ucky he's very proud of himself (and I'm actually kinda proud of him, and myself for kinda finding a trick to get him into it) for achieving -big boy- status <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Got him a little trophy at the store today.. He rocks so much.. even on the puny list he manages to find that little smile that makes me melt.
DD's not feeling all that great either.. so we're going to hang out together and watch Purdue get over on Ohio State tonight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Cuddle time!!! Sorry they feel bad, and I feel kinda guilty but I -love- having them cuddle with me on the couch... I love taking care of my kids.. sick or not.
Congrats on the Big Boy Status! That is such a special day! So glad you mad eusre to celebrate with & for him!
Cuddle time is the best! I just had some with DD.
My trip went well. Nice wedding. Long drive. I really did it for Mom & she appreciated it. We had fun. I didn't think I was tired, but I laid down on the couch when I got home and slept for an hour!
DD came home (a bit late). She is covered in mosquito bites. Drac took the kids to a bar-b-que last night & apparently didn't put any bug spray on the kids. UGH. Although I hear that DSS won a pie eating contest. DD told me she 'begged' daddy not to go & when I talked to her last night she was VERY unhappy,, complaining of being sick. She really didn't want to be there. I don't know if it was a "date" thing for Drac, which would explain her not wanting to go. I didn't press with any questions. DD just said she didn't know anybody there & they went because of daddy's "friend" and she told me a girl's name. I know he worked at the last job with a girl by that name - could be her. She HAD a serious boyfriend when they worked together, but who knows now.
NOT my problem. It IS my problem only if he's dragging my kids into ANOTHER relationship already. I will just have to watch out for the kids as best I can.
It will be a good week. Drac is out of town all week, so DD & I get an extra night together!! Yippee!
Am going to bed - am really still tired from all of the driving.
Later all!
Hehe.. congrats on the additional time with DD <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I really envy you in that respect that Drac seems so willing to give up his time with the kids. Wish my WW would do the same.. it'd make things a lot easier on me. Life is good again when the kids are around.. not so much when I'm alone and bouncing off the walls.
Glad you had a good trip <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And don't worry too much about Drac's new flame.. like the others it'll burn out.. Chicks don't tend to dig guys his age who still live at home with the parents..
Course.. then there's people like my WW.. but that's another story.
((((((Bugs)))))
Bugs:
Remember now is the time that Drac really finds out what it is like to be alone. He will truly find out what it is like to miss you and DD.
Just stay dark. Let him miss and truly miss you. He could be thinking he made the wrong decision. If so it will take him awhile to realize it and to come groveling back to you.
You just need to figure before this would happen, is this something you want. You are a much stronger person. God wants you to concentrate on being single. He wants you to find you, the unique you, find your best qualities, and become a whole person, without anyone else.
You are not to do anything now, just be patient, pray and praise God.
God will bring the best to you....just be patient.
Sorry about what DD told you. I know how much that stuff hurts, but hang in there. You're doing really well!
(((Bugs)))
Morning, all!
Thanks for the continued encouragement!
You are not to do anything now, just be patient, pray and praise God.
God will bring the best to you....just be patient
INeed,,,,,this is exactly what I am doing. Yeterday I recv'd a teaching cd in the mail and listened to most of it in the car on the way home. Mom & I listened to another during our trip. All GREAT stuff that is really helping me.
Drac is out of town on business until Thurs. night. He's asked to take the kids to dinner Fri. night and then bring them to me. I agreed. I think it's a good thing that his priority upon returning from this trip is his KIDS. Sure appears to be a nice, positive change. Well, it's only one night,,,,which doesn't necessarily represent a BIG change, but I am glad for the kids. I am sure it works out well for him in someway for the rest of his weekend plans, but I am trying hard not to go there in my thoughts!
BIG NEWS!!! DD learned to ride her bike last night WITHOUT her training wheels!! WHoo Hoo! She forgot to tell Drac when they spoke, so I let her call him right back to tell him. She's SO PROUD. She didn't crash even one time.
It came down to just being a confidence thing. I knew she was ready - she just had to realize it for herself. Kind of like me around here. You all can see so much looking in from the outside, but each of us must realize things within ourselves. It's so great to have someone to believe in you, so thanks!
I've been struggling a bit with Halloween coming up. It was always such a fun family time for us. I am really, really sad that we will be apart for it. But, *I* didn't choose this. I can't change it, but can only make the best of it for DD. DSS won't be with me, unfortunately.
Well, rather than go down the path of what if and if only, I think it's time to jump in the shower.
Enjoy the shower and congrats to DD on the bike riding!
DSD has been working on it, and I guess she probably still is at the place WW is staying.. so I'm not sure where she's at in the whole process.
You're doing great Bugsmom. I'm finding that dwelling on the things you used to do as a family with the WS isn't productive, and prevents you from truly enjoying the moment and making -new- traditions for you and your kids. It may not be what you want, but as Guy Smiley would say.. it is simply what IS.. and you have to make the most of it.
My DS and I have a new ritual of spending time at the park by my house on the way home from daycare and before dinner.. it's something we didn't do as often as we should have before all this, but it has been an incredible way for he and I to bond and to keep his mind from being troubled by this whole situation.
Here's to making new traditions that fill your life with joy, not the memories of what was, or what we believe -should- be... here's to enjoying what is.
((((((Bugs))))))
Oh Bugs, I think you've been riding without your training wheels for a while now and just didn't realize it. In fact, I think you're ready to graduate to mountain bike-- easier to get up and over those unexpected mountains that appear in your path. (Ok, I know... corny analogy).
I agree with Jamesus... make new holiday traditions.
Thanks guys!
We are already planning new fun things to do here. Tonight we'll be decorating the house. We didn't do a lot of that before, because we were always gone from home on Halloween night. I want to decorate for my party - - but DD doesn't know that. I am not telling her about it because she'll only be upset that she doesn't get to be here for it.
Had a bit of back & forth yesterday with Drac on the Fri. night 'dinner' He didn't want to give a specific time that he would have the kids home & got snippy with M she asked for a more specifc time. She did explain that I have things to do and need to know what time to be here for them, not a potential 2 or 3 hour window. He apologized for being short & is "frustrated" with trying to make it all work with the time contraints.
TOO BAD. SOO SAD. Drac has to deal with the REALITY that HE created.
I talked with Drac's dad. He is considering buying a house his brother has for sale, but it's really not any farther than where he is now from me & DD. He's talking about coming up to get his tractor off the property that is supposed to be going up for sale. He said he'd let me know so that we can get together. I've invited him numerous times to come visit our new house. In fact, I've told him he is ALWAYS welcome here.
DSS is with one of the Aunts this week, not Drac's friend R. Wonder if R is getting tired of having DSS? Anyway, her daughter got on the phone after picking up DSS at the house Monday to talk to the other Aunt (typical family gossip). They are quite upset. Seems that the house is in pretty bad shape inside. She said that if family services came in, she doubts it would "pass".
Now, the gossip is not my concern, but the living conditions for my kids IS. I am not yet sure what I am going to do about this. I find it particularly STRANGE because DD told me they stayed home Sunday for Drac to work on the porch(which is broken but it is not dangerous or even visible that it is broken) AND so Drac could Clean House before he went out of town.
Wonder what he cleaned? It amazes me, as that is the one big thing he kept complaining about at his Dad's, that it was never clean and he HATED living there because of it. sounds like it's no different now.
Meggy - - my sis is bringing me a bike so DD and I can go ride together! Hope it is a mountain bike! I am READY! LOL!
Bugs:
Just dropping in to say hello!
LG
Hey LG!
It's SO funny,,,, I was just wondering if I had offended you since I hadn't heard from you in a while! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LOL! Hope all is well in your world!!
What's the latest with DS? Let's see,,,,football should be wrapping up. Basketball in his future? Another play perhaps?
I had to 'communicate' some divorce settlement issues w/Drac today. YUCK! Here's a question that I wonder about.
Do you think HE gets as nervous as I do every time I have to send a message?
I made sure what was sent to him was 'strictly business'. He responded in kind. He apparently is either coming into a lot of money in the next 4-6 weeks or is re-financing the house with a LOT added on. One bill that I've been paying, he is supposed to take over now that we are divorced. His reply was that he is paying it off in 4-6 weeks. Hope he intends to re-pay me for making the monthly payment. Not to worry,,,,, my attorney is all over that already.
He's also sending some paperwork with DSS. WHAT? More messages thru the kids??? SHAME on him! After all of that berating me about it,,,,,
What I hate most about having to deal with him, even via 3rd party, is that I still want to hear him say he's sorry. That he made a mistake. That he is atleast sorry about how very much he used me and hurt me.
When will that go away? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
As LilSis is writing about this:
"When will that go away?"
The day after he says it in all sincerity.
And that may not EVER happen.
Or, it might happen at your DD's wedding twenty years from now.
He's in his 8th relationship at that point since Plan D, and your in a long-term MB relationship with someone terrific..
Whereever he tries to run, there he is.
WhoME had an interesting quote from her FWH. Thay had run into her first, long divorced H. And her (now) H said something to the effect of "that the first H KNEW that he let the good one get away....."
Does Drac get nervous about messages?
Probably not. Why should he? You consider plan B protocols when you send a message. How will he percieve it? Will he LONG for you? He doesn't do any of this, he just sends it.
And if he isn't, that's still his choice.
Personally? I think you should drop out of Plan B. Sure, he can contact you. Sure, he can ask you a question. Sure, he can try to "work with you FOR THE KIDS"
And then you treat him like he deserves. Short answers. He's a pleasant annoyance to you. Ignore the stupid stuff, when he trys to bait you, and just be sweetness and light. You seem approachable, but he still gets nothing. Your not a "friend" just a co-parent. Who is dating, and moving on.
That WILL rock his world.
I'm not second guessing MB Plan B principles here. Just trying to think of a way to pull YOU OUT of that loop.
Sorry about this hand grenade. I DO THINK that Drac would respond to your dropping PLAN B darkenss moreso than say LilSis's H would. It's just my opinion. All other opinions welcome.
As for DS:
One month left in football. 5-0 on the JV team. He's only been in for 8 plays though. So, it's not his doing.
No more plays until the spring. And the one selected for the HS is going to be dreadful..... I watched the big screen version, and thought.....OMG...that is just DRECK. But the Arts Director ALWAYS wanted to do this one. We will see...
Anywhoo... Till next time.
(((BUGS)))
LG
LG,
You know, 8 plays while on JV is a-ok! Glad to hear his team is doing well!!
I know what you mean about the Director picking dreadful plays! Same thing happened to me in HS. It's always the one that the director has ALWAYS wanted to do! LOL! Well, there is a bit of time,,,, I'll say a little prayer for a new idea to come into "play". he he!
I don't think that dropping out of Plan B at this point in time necessarily goes against MB concepts. Plan B is for me, for my protection and so that I can find a way to move on. Plan D has been completed, so there technically is no Marriage to be saved here. I no longer really feel that the darkness of Plan B is helping me move along in my life.
I have considered dropping out moderately. Pretty much as you describe above. I am pretty sure that Drac's whole attitude is based on his thinking I'm trying to manipulate him in some way. I would suspect (but don't know) that he views me as what he considers to be a typical betrayed spouse - full of anger, bitterness, etc. That is the input he would be getting from those he interacts with and what his life experience has taught him. That is likely his view of Plan B.
We know that really is not who or what I am.
I think showing him that I am not bitter, not manipulating, but rather just living my own life and treating him as he deserves - - - as an annoyance in my life as you say, would be a good thing.
I know it would help me to move along in life. Being able to "face the demon" so to speak. Does that make sense?
I don't know about the potential to Rock His World,,,but that isn't and can't be the point. The important thing is to find a way for ME to continue down a path of recovery. Staying here in the darkness of Plan B feels like I am hiding out. I think it's time for Drac to get a glimpse of what he has lost. It's time for me to 'face him' and know that I won't fall apart.
I'm not talking about being friends. I'm not talking about having any R talk,,, or much of any talk at all. Just doing my thing, being myself, liviing my life.
I'm interested to hear any other opinions out there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
bugs!!! personally, I think that if YOU think that you can handle it than you need to go for it...I don't think that whether you come out of Plan B or no that it will change Drac's thinking...He's sooo fogged out and he will find any little thing to "make" things appear HIS WAY...
On the other hand, if you are ready to face "the demon" then you do that for you!!! For your recovery...but you are going to have to remember not to have any expectations from Drac...like you said you just living your life...
I admire you for what you are thinking! I am NO where near that point...I feel that facing POWS would only cause MORE damage to me...he's SOOO "charming" I guess you can say...really SUCH A GREAT lair and I find that I "want" to believe him but KNOW that I can't...
his words doesn't match his actions...
So, there's my 2 cents for the day!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
No matter what, Drac is in search of something he will never find.
He may have found it with you, but then he decided it was time for something else.
Then you came here and learned SOOO MUCH.
And he's still just Drac.
Still ill prepared for the search he is on.
Your search, if you decide to search, has been bolstered by the things you learned here. Your much better prepared for the trail now.
Unlike POWS, who is a scoundrel, and Mr. LilSis, who has wwwaaayyyy to much pride, Drac seemed more lost in his A.
His A needed you as the third leg to support it. And it fell apart when you were no longer involved. Just like the "new" GF R will end because it isn't you. If you were to send him an invitation to lunch or dinner, he would be all over it.
I believe Drac is closer to S/L's husband than the other ones. Drac may have been closer to coming home than either POWS or Mr. future RT. But he could not see his way home, or never really hit bottom, realizing that the poor choices he made where his. You tried to show him a path home, but he decided that he knew a better way. There's quicksand that way, but he didn't pay attention to the signs.
Once again, just my .02, and a cyber .02 as well.
Good luck Bugs, you have come SO FAR. Your first post still resonates with me, and your growth since then has been tremendous.
Poor Drac.
LG
Drac strikes me as one with a lot of pride. It won't be easy for him to admit mistakes, or be remorseful, or have the right attitude that he'd need to fix this.
Which is why you are safer in Plan B.
Because I do agree that he would be "all over" any offers from you. But he would only take. Not give. And he would only take what he wanted -- family time, sex, friendship. But I don't think YOU would get any of what YOU want from that situation.
Thanks for the great input!
Rin,
thanks for the 'admiration' and the caution/reminder that there can be no expecations of anything from Drac.
LG,
I think you are right about the A needing me involved in order for it to survive. You are also right about the next one, and the next one, and the next one. All will end up the same eventually.
He did not see a way home. He still hasn't really hit rock bottom,,,,at least not in the all encompassing way where he would want to reach out. I don't know if he is capable of reaching out should he ever get there. He doesn't understand that love can exist and you can be there for someone no matter what. He doesn't understand that you can hurt each other, you can give & receive pain, but that you can get past those things and that even DURING those things, you can still LOVE. He also doesn't understand real CHANGE.
I don't agree he'd be "all over" any offer from me. Depends on the moment & his current "other" relationship status. He still sees Old Bugs, still blames Old Bugs, still clings to the "fact" that he HAD already moved on before the A. He still has his WS goggles firmly in place, of that I have no doubt.
Lexx is right, It would be a HUGE thing to think he would step up and admit to having been wrong.
The thing is,,,,staying in Plan B or coming out of Plan B isn't going to change any of that. It won't change Drac. Only Drac can change Drac. IF I gave him the opportunity, yes he would likely take, take, take.
But I am not talking about giving him any offers. I am not talking about opening up to him. I am not talking about having phone chats, being friends, exchanging emails, or anything of that nature.
I am talking about how I can have direct, factual email exchanges on the kids. I am talking about how if I am outside working in my yard when he is going to drop off DD, I don't have to rush into the house early enough to avoid him. I need to be able to say hello, be 'normal', and brush off his appearance like I brush off that of a stranger. The best way to say it is like I said before - - I need to "face the Demon".
Can what he sees and experiences impact his willingness to
change? Maybe. Again, not the point here.
Does this make any kind of sense to anyone else?
Makes perfect sense to me Bugs.. sounds like you're right at the point that SDGuy seems to be leading to.. and where I will likely end up a year or so down the road.
You've let go...
You're moving on...
I think your door is still open -should- Drac ever really hit bottom, look up and acknowledge the destruction left in his wake..
However.. the key is.. you -are- moving on with -YOUR- life.. not his.
You've gotten there Bugs.. you're a hero to your kids.. you're Drac's hero too, whether he admits it or not.. to himself or anyone else.. you've stood up to all he could throw at you and come out the other side smiling..
If it means anything.. you're one of my new heros too.
James,
I am sitting here crying right now,,,,
If it means anything.. you're one of my new heros too.
That means SO MUCH to me! Although I have to say I don't really feel deserving of it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Like everyone else here, we are all doing the best we can under the most horrible of circumstances. I think we are all 'heros' in some fashion. Thank you very much for your kind words!
Well, let's see,,,,,updates in my life.
I emailed Drac directly about DD's school pics and asked him how many he wanted to order. Got basic responses from that. No great shakes, no additional comments.
He emailed me about a refund on the property taxes. Said he'd gotten a refund from his overpayment, said he'd send the paperwork last night when he dropped off the kids and asked how I want to "settle up".
I responded and let him know that it took me 6 phone calls and 2 faxes to get it fixed because the form he sent me some time ago showed that they were taxing us for a house on the property when there is none. I wanted him to know that they didn't find the error *I* did and *I* took care of it.
Of course, I got no response or acknowlegement. And you know what? It did not bother me at all because I didn't expect one. I simply stated what I had to say and that was enough for me. I think that's pretty cool! A sign to myself that yes,,,I am doing as well as I thought! LOL!
Drac let me know that he thought they'd be a bit later than 9pm due to the time of the movie, which was fine. I was home when they pulled up and I went to the front door, opened it and looked out. They were getting out of his truck (work truck again). I stood w/the door partly open and then threw it wide when DD walked up the yard. I didn't LOOK at Drac, just did my greetings with the kids.
They came in and I closed the door. I didn't make an effort to "SEE" him or look his way. He was out there for quite a while,,,,doing what, who knows? Who cares? It felt good to me just doing what I wanted to and not giving a hoot about what he did, what he saw, what he thought. Yes, I WAS of course, in perfect Goddess form -- but that was not for Drac's benefit. It was simply what I do/am everyday! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
He did send the signed realtor contract so we can list that property for sale. He also sent my CS. Funny, it was in an envelope that had stamps on it and just my first initial and last name. It wasn't fully addressed or sealed. The check was dated 10/4. Wonder when he planned to send it? I am sure he post dated it to make it look like he is in full compliance with the court. LOL! I will be documenting that, as I do all of our "interactions" just for future reference if I should ever need it.
We had a snack and stayed up late watching tv. It was a nice night.
Today we are going to work outside and then tonight, we are making popcorn balls and watching Evan Almighty that I just bought on DVD.
SUPER BUGSMOM!!
You're doing great.. and your show of strength doesn't go unnoticed by Drac.. and I assure you it really doesn't go unnoticed by your kids.
You're teaching them right.. how to deal with the really tough conflicts in their lives.. and how to be strong throughout.
You're an amazing woman.. and an inspiration to the lives you touch.
Thanks, James.
Funny that you understand so easily that it was a "show of strength" for me.
Kids and I had a great day. They have been getting along really well. We decorated the house for Halloween, we made popcorn balls & they are watching a Halloween movie.
Drac called an hour early,,, because he's going to a concert and won't be able to call later. I hate to admit it, but that does bother me. I DO wonder who he is going with. I know what concert is tonight in our area, so I know where he is going,,,,,
Guess I am not as "great" as I thought I was,,,,,,
Well, on to tomorrow. We are going to mow the grass (hopefully for the last time) and carve pumpkins.
Naw.. you're still doing great.
And believe me.. I totally understand.. I'm hoping it gets easier with time, but every encounter.. focusing on -not- engaging her is a sheer test of will for me right now.
I alternately want to take her into my arms and not let her go again.. or strangle the ever loving breath out of her for doing what she's doing to this family.
Toss of the coin really.. but in the midst of all that going on within me.. you -have- to portray calmness and strength in the face of all adversity. For yourself, for your kids.. and oddly enough.. for Drac.. that's what everyone needs you to be..
If Drac doesn't notice it directly.. his 'peripherial' vision picks it up.. and it probably frightens him a little bit still.
Don't worry about the trigger.. ultimately ask yourself if it really matters in your life, who he's going with.
If the answer is yes.. back to Plan B to protect yourself. If the answer is no.. well then.. Plan Bugs is working as expected.
You've removed some of the protection that brought you peace for so long.. some of the encounters with him are going to be raw again.. but you knew that, and were ok with opening that door for yourself again.
James,
Ah yes, the old "Love them/hate them" feelings that seem to change moment to moment. I know them well. It does smooth out eventually!
Actually, I ended up doing much better than I had thought for a bit. I didn't really think much about Drac all weekend and his concert companion wasn't on my mind.
Kids and I had a GREAT day yesterday. We decorated the house a bit more, bought pumpkins, carved them, called Grandma & Grandpa who came down while we were carving. Grandpa brought some small pumpkins he'd grown for the kids, so we had plenty to keep us busy. I mowed & raked the yard, too! Got cleaned up and took DSS home.
When we arrived, DD heard FIL down in the far back yard, so she ran down to see him. I got out of the car (in full Goddess wear), walked into the backyard and watched her for a few minutes. They came back up by the house & DD went inside. I stood by the car talking to FIL until DD came out of the house.
Drac walked her out onto the porch and turned to go back in and saw me standing there. I stayed totally focused on DD and FIL. DD wanted to run down into the back again, to see FIL's dog that was in his truck and I told her it was OK. I stood there watching her and then turned and got in the car. Drac stood on the porch watching me the whole time.
I sat in the car, watching for DD,,,,,,,Drac stood leaning on the porch watching. I saw her come up, and leaned into the back seat to help her with her belt. We were smiling and laughing. Drac, still watching,,,,,the entire time until we pulled out. As we did, a song came on the radio about people who cheat - - "Then What?"
Then what?
Whatcha gonna do when the old wears off and the new shines thru,
and it ain't really love & it ain't really lust,
You ain't anybody anybody's gonna trust!
Then what?
Where you gonna turn when you can't go back for the bridges you've burned and fate can't wait to kick you in the butt,
Then What?
It felt like a sign - - that I did EXACTLY the right thing by just doing "my" thing and giving him EXACTLY the amount of attention he deserves - NONE.
I had made arrangements for DD to spend her day off on Friday with Drac's Aunt & Granddaughter. She really misses them. Well, apparently Drac had made other plans, telling DD that she would be spending the entire day with him. Of course he'd told me nothing of this. He did send an email last night, but I haven't bothered to read it yet.
She doesn't really want to spend the day with him, but she won't tell Drac that because she "doesn't want to hurt his feelings". You'd think he'd be able to see it and do the right thing for her,,,,but that isn't going to happen and there's not a darn thing I can do about it. That's his to figure out.
Well, let's hope it's a good week. I have to travel 2 days this week and am not really looking forward to it, but that's the way it goes.
Am feeling pretty darn good in Bug's Plan Land. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Wow.. see.. this is why you're one of my new heroes.
You're so strong.. it's amazing to me to even hear about you being able to will yourself to do these things in front of him.. and then for me the song would have been a huge trigger.. but you responded completely differently..
I'm amazed by how well you are doing.
I know you said I was doing well but Bugs.. you're off the charts.
Glad to hear Plan Bugs is working for you.. heck, I almost wonder if it isn't working better than Plan B on some of the other people involved. Time will tell though.. I'm going to have to make some photocopies to get pages out of your book.. I like the way it reads.
Keep the faith.. and keep being a great mom.
I don't know what has quite gotten into me, but I think part of it is remembering my own power. The power I felt very strongly in Plan A. Perhaps it's a bit like Sis,,,the feeling of needing to DO Something. Yet, what I want to DO isn't anything other than be free to be more ME.
Does that make any kind of sense? I have grown and changed,,,grown stronger through this last year. The darkness of Plan B felt a bit stifling. I do 'have' to deal with Drac because of DD and I am finally strong enough to do that,,, Thanks in great part TO being in Plan B.
For instance today, I finally got around to reading Drac's email about this coming Friday, saying he planned to get her Thursday night and asking if she had dance class. He 'admonished' me by saying that "In the future when you are out of town or DD has a day off school, I need to be made aware of the plans for her". In plan B darkness that comment would have gone unanswered.
Today, I stood up for myself by letting him know that he is WELL aware of the fact that I DO inform him of the plans for DD. I then let him know that he needed to pick her up on Friday because "as he is already aware" I will be out of town Wed and would like to see her Thurs pm and Fri am before she leaves for the weekend.
His reply included an offer to 'save time' by picking her up at my office and that "we need to do a better job of communicating when it comes to DD". Well, I have news for him. I communicate JUST FINE, thank you very much. The fact that he doesn't like the way the world now works it just too bad. It's the world he chose to create.
I then sent him a list of EVERY early out or day off for the entire school year (non-holidays only), and gave him the choice of 'x' number of days that he would want to have her. He had to counter with questions. He just can't stand not trying the back & forth with me. He doesn't get much in response and then gets pissy about it. It just makes me laugh.
The last response from him was asking if the days she is early out, does she have dance or gymnastics. When I said a simple "yes", his reply was "well, not a lot can be done about it. Does she have any competitions?"
Not a lot can be done about it? How about he mans up and comes to take her to CLASS if he so wants to be involved and spend time with her??!! Is he wanting/expecting me to ASK him to do this or is he still just that self absorbed?
I don't know yet about any competitions or recitals - if I had, I would have let him know. I just can't wait for him and his latest Ho to show up at something! GAG!
I went to see my chiropractor today. He immediately asked me if I have been under any stress lately. I laughed out loud!!
Think I need to go soak in the tub for a while,,,,but will have to wait til DD goes to bed. Is it 8pm yet??!!
Bugs:
You are doing so well. I have recently been going to divorce care a christian based program to help you get through all the feelings that divorce brings about. I highly suggest you look online and find one in your area.
My dd is in the divorce care for kids program and it has helped her out alot. She has learned that it's okay for her to feel upset and for me to be happy, or for her to be happy and me to be upset.
She has been dealing with her anger and I have made tons of friends. The group has helped alot.
Congrats on no training wheels. I hope yours is not the daredevil like mine. Mine decided to ride her bicycle off of a 5ft high wall and onto the street with a car coming. Just a few scrapes, but survived.
My dd is so much happier since our WS has not been calling. I'm sure that as time goes by and Drac doesn't call as often you will see this as well.
I read Hebrews 12:1-3 where we are to be patient with God. Don't try to run a race, but learn to listen for him.
And then Exodus 2 where moses kept wanting to know the answer right now, and God told him to be patient that he didn't need to know everything that God would be handling it.
That's how it is for us. We don't need to know why our WS or XWS are doing something. We just need to pray for them. God is dealing with them in HIS own way. We must be patient and stay christ centered and watch as our cups overflow with the spiritual gifts.
One thing we discussed at my meeting tonight is that there is always a guilty party and an innocent party. The person who is guilty and causes the divorce will suffer in the end. THis is because they keep sinning more and more. They did not have God's permission to divorce us. And even though it is final, it is still against God's words. THey will reap what they sow. Then if they do come back they must repent, and they must come back begging for mercy from us and from God.
God on the other hand, will heal our broken hearts. He will bless us, and he will count every tear shed.
There are two things in life you can be sure of.....
YOU ARE STRONGER THAN YOU MAY THINK AND YOU ARE NEVER ALONE
Hey INeed!
Glad you are getting great support at DivorceCare!
I've had a couple of pretty good days. Every morning there's been a fabulous sunrise to remind me the beauty and awesome power of God first thing in the morning! I've been feeling at peace and safe/strong with my personal power, supported by God.
Yesterday I spent some time 'reclaiming my territory' so to speak. I am moving my office back closer to the 'main' office in our area. I went to the main place to get my new office/building keys yesterday,,,,and Drac's car was in the parking lot. Seems he was there for a meeting.
Instead of worrying the whole time about avoiding him or even being concerned or nervous ABOUT seeing him, I went about my business calm, cool, collected, BugsStyle. Talked to lots of folks,,,,heard lots of compliments & how everyone is glad I'll be 'close' by again! Never did see Drac.
But when I walked out of that building (which I helped design the interior by the way), I felt GREAT! It was really re-claiming what was mine before Drac came along. It was a sense of power that I hadn't felt in a while and I really liked it. I moved some things into my new office and will complete the move when I get back from my trip on Friday.
I re-scheduled my parent/teacher conference for Fri am, and pushed back Drac's picking up DD from my office Fri morning until later. No big deal there.
These last few days I just feel the Lord telling me to be still and be patient. Go about my business, knowing that HE is dealing with Drac. I really get the sense that there are things at work with him right now. Like a few others I've read lately, despite the 'real' world believing it's time to totally move on, it doesn't seem right.
It is just little things, little feelings, little nudges that give me that sense, but I can't quite explain it. It's like the song that played when leaving his house Sunday or the song on the radio when the alarm went off this morning. Both used to be 'negative' triggers, but now they give me hope. Maybe it's more of a sign about ME, than about HIM?? Either way, it is better for me than it used to be, so I'll be happy with that.
So Plan Bugs continues, doing my thing, living my life, but I am willing to leave the future open. No dating for me. No desire, No interest. I still have belief/hope that his day of awakening is coming. We shall see. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Now, off to finish packing!
Bugs:
You really are a remarkable person, aren't you?
"heard lots of compliments & how everyone is glad I'll be 'close' by again"
"which I helped design the interior"
Previously, you stated that your current office wasn't all that great, so it good to know that you moving back.
And then you got to do this:
"I need to "face the Demon"
And he ain't all that scary. As scary as he thinks he is. He's not spinning his head and spitting green vomit.
He's just a 40 year old man with two failed marriages, a number of other bad choices for R with women, and the thought that it isn't HIS fault.
But it's really easy to do when you realize that it was HIS choice to do what he did.
(((BugsMom))) (((Bugs)))
LG
LG is soooo right Bugs!
Your "demon" is rather pathetic isn't he?
Bugs:
You are so right. God will tell you when it is time to move on. You get different feelings. You just have to remember to stay in HIS word daily, and to keep your eyes open for different ways he speaks.
Billboards, church signs, trucks, Liscence plates, road signs, other people, and even through HIS WORD.
It seems he talks to me for awhile and then sits back. Just like a normal father does. He gives us a push in the right directions, and then waits to see if we walk there or if he needs to steer us again.
You are doing great. One thing I did was to put scripture over HIS pictures. I can still look at them if I really need to see his face, but the scriptures strengthen me daily.
You are blessed and so are your children. Remember, God will not lead him home unless Drac answers HIS calling. It may take time, but keep it always in prayer. Don't forget to fast now and then, and to have someone else pray with you as well.
The nice thing is that God does not blame us for the divorce. He is there to comfort us and to strenghten us.
I found out yesterday when the fuel man brought me my fuel, that my WS cheated on me way before he ever left. It was another knife to my gut. But I was able to say Thank you lord anyway. I know that when and if WS comes back he will have to repent of this now as well. It also explained why my friend never calls me anymore. I always call her and she tells me she'll call back. Guess the guilt got to her.
I told her that my WS had a thing for her after my Best friend had told me that He had mentioned it. She didn't tell me who, but I figured it out. Because he may take DD over to see her kids, I thought it only appropriate to warn her especially since she had just gotten married. Needless to say that's the last time I heard from her.
It is funny how the bible tells us more and more that the end days will come. It says before it happens that the world will be more, Me, myself and I. This is exactly what has the divorce rate up so high. We are just another statistic in Satan's plot, but the Lord knows he has us.
We talked on monday about why god says "I hate divorce."
My reply was that God said to Moses that the only way he allows divorcement is that someone has a hardened heart. So of course he hates divorce, because he knows that one of the couple involved has turned to the other side, sometimes even both. THe will of God for us is to bring all things together through christ. THis goes against god's will.
So we can pray and we can listen to God's will for our lives. Listen to him tell us when to go on. Remember to always listen or you may miss the best God has instore for you. I believe that as you pray for Drac, if it's not right God will give you that feeling. Just trust in him, and keep going with your faith.
God plans the best for us. He knew we would be able to handle this divorce. He knew it would make us stronger in HIM and HIS word. You are on the right path...just watch for the footsteps.
(((((BUGS))))))
LousyGopher!
Good to see you popping you head out of the cup of the 18th green!! Thanks for that!
I laughed out loud envisioning Drac spewing pea soup! But in MY vision it doesn't spew all over me, it just dribbles down his chin!
Lexxxy,,,
You are so right. More like a child in a Halloween costume than anything else.
INeed,
Thanks for the spiritual support, as always! Hope you are doing as well as you sound.
Well, business went well. I took my first trip across the Canadian border. Glad they let me back across! LOL!
While I was gone, Drac had parent/teacher conference. He sent me a TM, which apparently was the minute he walked out of the conference. It said
"We have the perfect daughter".
Can anyone say DUH?! I was at dinner when I got it and I almost couldn't eat after. I wanted to tell him that yes, we DO have the perfect daughter and she deserves MUCH BETTER than she is getting from her Father right now!
Instead, I had another glass of wine for 'dessert'.
When he dropped her off that night, Mom told me he pulled into the driveway for the first time vs stopping in the street in front of the house. I find that a bit interesting.
Was that his "counter show of strength" or what?
This morning I have parent/teacher conference. Then, am taking DD with me to the office for Drac to pick her up. I haven't decided how I want to play that scenario yet. There's a very long hallway he'll have to come down to my office, unless he comes to my back door. I am thinking of having her stuff ready and sending her down the hallway by herself to meet him while I stay in my office. I think it's a nice counter to the previous visibility I gave him.
Although, he may have DSS with him, and will probably just send him into the building to get her.
The thing is, I don't want him to start to get the impression that I am wanting or needing to see him in any way. I don't want him thinking we are now going to be what HE envisioned as the "great, friendly co-parents". I'm not there by any means.
Have lots of work to do, then a hair cut this afternoon, and then party preparations to complete. I am getting excited about my very first party in the new place.
Gotta run & get some weekly reports in to the boss.
Sounds to me like you're firmly in control of Plan Bugs.. so don't allow Drac to have so much power over you that you feel like you need to calculate your every move around him. The whole point I thought was getting back to being you.
If you don't want to see him, don't. If it doesn't matter to you then why should you give it the energy to consider. Do what comes naturally at this point.. well, apart from pushing stickpins through the soft fleshy parts of his body.
Keep your head up Bugs.. you're doing wonderful!
James,
Funny,,,, I was thinking some of those same thoughts to myself as I was writing that post.
Yes, trying to decide what I want to do based around him does him Drac power, you are right. However, in thinking about this, I am not doing it from the place of "fear" that I used to be in. I am doing it from my place of power. Deciding how I want my interactions to go with him for ME.
Hard to explain, but deciding what I want to do without totally focusing on avoiding him feels good to me. Yes, I do think about his reaction, but mostly it is about what *I* feel like doing at that particular time. What will make me come out of the potential interaction feeling good and strong?
SOMEDAY I will get to the place of not thinking about the interactions at all,,, I will just go through the process.
I am just not there yet.
BTW- - push pins made me think of that beer commercial where the woman is holding the voodoo doll of the guy over a lighter!! LOL! Too bad, but I don't think that fire destroys Dracula does it?? he he!
Thanks for the great observations!
Hi Bugs!!! Sounds like you're doing great!! I second that motion on being a hero! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'll be getting my new computer soon and look out I'll be all over teh place again!
I have a little message for you and all those that helped me along the way on my thread...LG, that goes for you too man!
And all the rest of you! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!
Anyway, I was just dropping by!!! Checking in...
I'm sneaking around at work when I do post... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I WOULD HATE TO GET IN TROUBLE!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Anyway, always thinking about you, my fellow Angel!!!
Take care! Enjoy the weekend!!
Hehe.. that beer commercial is funny.. and yes.. fire does sometimes destroy vampires. I think sunlight works best... but our particular vampires seem to have survived exposure.
The demons are definiately in control of the waywards at this point.
It's funny.. I was just posting on my thread about recognizing the ways I've grown stronger.. and identifying the next steps I need to take to continue to build that personal strength.. or at least where I want to be, even if I haven't figured out how to get there yet.
You're so much further down the path than I am Bugs.. and I guess that's where my admiration comes from a lot of the time. I honestly figure my situation, will more than likely end up much like yours, LilSis, SDGuy and Strivin here.. I keep up with all your threads.. and while it's discouraging to think that this might be how it turns out for me.. it is also very encouraging to see people making such wonderful personal recoveries. Something I'm going to have to do regardless of whether or not IQ unthaws.
Here's to the new Killer B's.. from a junior member still trying to figure out the password to the clubhouse.
Bugs:
THings could be much worse... Mine met someone online Oct 5th, and moved in 1 wk later. Found out they are getting married.
WS didn't bring DD home tonight, and now I have to worry will he ever bring her home. His moods and emotions are all wacky...
Just remain calm and remember that God is your pilot and you are the Co-pilot. Never do anything without consulting him first. We are thrown so many stumbling blocks and HE loves to see how we handle it.
We can do all things through Christ Jesus who strengthens us !!!!
Morning all!
Rin,
Can't wait for you to get that computer at home so I can read "LMAO" all weekend, too! he he!
James,
Passwords are automatically distributed as needed. LOL!
INeed,
Honey, do what you gotta do to get your DD and protect her. Your WH is not trustworthy, so don't give him your most precious posession again!!
Period. End of Story.
DD had a PERFECT report at the parent/teacher conference. I will have to agree with Drac on that,,,she is perfect! LOL! When we were driving to my office that morning, she told me that she "Knows" I am going to get married again someday. Of course as we talked about that, it came out that in her mind, it will be to Drac again. She doesn't tell HIM any of those thoughts & concerns,,,just me. That's OK. We'll work through it together.
My weekend was really good. Party was a success. Mom & I spent Sat. getting ready for it. Had a nice turn out,,,,and I didn't think some of them would ever leave! LOL! It was after 3am! Boy was I tired.
Sun. morning there was a real estate auction my Mom wanted us to go to. She met my sister & BIL at my house early, but didn't wake me (atleast not on purpose). I got up at 8:45 and made it to the sale shortly after they did. Wearning the post party outfit of a baseball cap & sunglasses!! LOL!
I was glad I went! I got a box of wine glasses for $2, a baker's rack for the kitchen for $22 and a 7.5ft Christmas tree,,,in the box,,,never been opened for $37.50!!
Came home, cleaned up the rest of the party mess, and took a nap for an hour. Drac dropped off DD. I was glad I was upstairs,,,he parked in the driveway and carried some things in for her and set them inside the door. Got his first look inside my house.
I came down and he was getting back into his car. Funny how he takes a LOT of time when he goes back to his car. This time he could see in the house a bit as the blinds were open. I just spent time talking to DD, looking at her 'stuff', and hearing all about the Halloween party they went to. It was a good 2 or 3 minutes before he pulled out. Don't know what that's about.
I think I was being "punished" over the weekend for DD calling late on Thursday when I was out of town. He did not have the kids call either night as he is supposed to. I had to call them BOTH nights after giving them over an hour past time. *Whatever* I don't have time, patience, or care enough to play those kind of games with him.
DD will call him tonight, on schedule.
Gotta get ready for work,,,,,how the time flies when I sit down here at the computer!
Have a great week, all!
Been a few days since I've had the strength to come look at other people's sitch..
Sounds like you're still doing good.. congrats on having such a wonderful kid. It's no suprise to the rest of us she's doing great with a super mom like you.
Keep up the good work on Plan Bugs.. not sure what I'm going to call my plan yet, but it's in the development stage right now.. I'm pretty sure it's all Plan D.. but I've got to do it the right way for my kids. Whole new set of books to study up on.
Hey James,
I was a bit surprised to hear from you, as I do understand that when we are individually in crisis, it's hard to look at other threads. That's OK. Glad you are hanging around.
Well, Drac emailed me last night about changing insurance coverages from me covering everyone to him doing it. I had held off, because I did not want the kids to possibly go without coverage. I was waiting for him to confirm he was on top of taking it over.
I didn't read his message til this morning. I got it taken care of first thing this am and emailed him to that effect, letting him know that I delayed because I did not want him and the kids to possibly be without coverage.
He had also emailed early this am with DSS's name as the subject line. Seems a note came home with DSS last night from school - a 13yr old boy in his school committed suicide over the weekend! I was Devastated to read that. I wondered what was up last night when I spoke w/DSS and he said he was playing checkers with Drac.
The note said the usual things about supporting your kids, talking to them, helping them deal with their feelings. Drac did talk to DSS,,, he knew the boy but not well. DSS said the boy had been picked on a lot at school (very much like DSS in the past). Drac talked to him about how this year was going with DSS socially (he said DSS hadn't said much this year to him - well DUH, he never said anything to DRAC, he ALWAYS talked to ME about those things). Anyway, he's doing better this year (which *I* already knew), and he even told Drac about a girl he likes (which *I* already knew). Drac then gave me an update on DSS's grades.
First and foremost I was crushed to hear of such a young life being gone and under such horrible circumstances. It has bothered me ALL day. Second, I thought of DSS, how he would be feeling/thinking, etc. Third, I was TOTALLY taken aback that Drac shared this all with me. Just a couple of weeks ago he was reminding me of having NO LEGAL rights to DSS, and in the past talked about how I am not a good mom to DSS. WTF? Was it just a general update to the person who sometimes has care of his son?
I thought a lot about it. In the meantime, he sent ANOTHER email asking if I had changed car insurance.
I checked the school website to see if they had anything posted about the boy who died, but they did not. However, they did have information where you can now sign up to get information on your child's grades & homework status on line.
After considering it, I chose to reply to Drac's email. I told him how upset I was to hear about the boy who died. I also shared with him (in a nice way) that I already knew about DSS's social sitch (that we continue to talk) and that it was good that DSS shared the same with Drac.
I then asked if he had signed up for the on-line information, which was what I really wanted to communicate to him, with the hope he would use it.
Here was his reply -
"I know exactly what you mean. I did not sleep at all last night. I thought of all DSS has been through over the years with those same kids. To think what could have been going thru that child's mind! What a waste of youth.
Thanks for the return"
I don't know now if I am sorry that I opened that door or not. I have some opinions but am keeping them to myself right now. Anyone want to chime in with their thoughts on Drac's interactions?
What a sad story. I hope it has a profound effect on those who are the "bullies" in this story. How very very sad.
As far as Drac goes -- I think its a bit of a shame that you're in contact with him. I think it alleviates his rightful guilt feelings.
He needs you to meet his conversation and family support needs. And he would be quite happy to have you meet ONLY those needs. So I think these interactions don't really do much for a reconciliation plan.
Are you in a place where you only want the "happy co-parent" relationship? If so, good.
And I think it would be possible for you to nurture this into more. However, it doesn't bring Drac back broken and remorseful -- which is a requirement, IMO, for a true MB recovery.
I think Lexxxy is probably right on the mark here..
If you're at a point where you want to co-parent with him, these are the kinds of discussions you will have.
If you're still hoping to have him back.. you might get it this way, but he won't come through the door sorry about what he did.
Hi Bugs-
This is kind of OT but I wanted to let you know about a great organization that is focused on preventing teen suicide. It was started by some parents who lost their son to suicide.
www.yellowribbon.orgJust FYI
JT,
Thanks for the link,,, I am going to check that out. I really feel the need to "do" something in regards to the sitch and becoming more educated is something I strive to do in everything. This will certainly help!
Lexxy,,
He needs you to meet his conversation and family support needs. And he would be quite happy to have you meet ONLY those needs. So I think these interactions don't really do much for a reconciliation plan
You are right on the mark with what I was thinking, too. He does very much need me to meet those needs and perhaps is realizing it himself for the first time.
Am I ready to just co-parent with him? No. Honestly I am not. I thought a lot about that over the last week or so. No one else would know, prior to him saying it, that he hadn't slept at all over what happened. I knew how he'd be feeling and that he'd want to 'talk' about it. Obviously, he did. And yes, I gave him that chance.
Could this be fostered into something? Perhaps. Yet, I do realize, as you say, it would not bring him to the place of true remorse for what he has done. Not only is that a "requirement" for a true MB recovery, that is a Bugs Requirement. There can never be any recovery without that. Period. End of Story.
Since that brief email exchange, I have gone quiet and dark again. I intend to stay that way. He dropped off DD last night,,,I opened the door to let her in and immediately closed it, turning my back on him. He was standing in the drive and I saw from the corner of my eye that he turned at the same time.
He did his usual thing of taking an inordinate amount of time pulling out. I think perhaps he noticed the car parked across the street in front of my house. I had a friend over. A male friend. He's someone I've known for 15 years and we have been co-workers. He's just a friend, but I am pretty sure he wants to be more. My brother was also here, so it wasn't anything "datelike". He was in the area for work and stopped by to see my new house.
I told him last night that although I am now single, I am no where near being ready to see anyone and I don't know how long it would be before I am. He knows I have always been very straight forward & I even said that I don't know any other way to be. He was very nice about it and said that he knows we are just friend and that's ok with him.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,while it is nice to know someone is interested, it is really really weird for me to have to "think" in terms of how to handle these kinds of situations again! I don't really like it.
Well, you know I can't relate to being divorced.
But, if you are wanting to reconcile which I think is a REAL possibility if YOU CHOOSE to go that route, I recommend sticking to DARKNESS.
That includes NOT filling him on YOUR PLANS about dating...DARK....let him think that you are OVER him..MOVING ON.. UNLESS he complies with your conditions..what you do with your life NOW is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS....
You've already filled him in on all of this stuff, Bugs..He knows THE DEAL...
He wants it HIS WAY...FRIENDLY CONVERSATION/COPARENTING...and eventually he will be wanting SF...with NO STRINGS..YUCK...
Don't set yourself to be USED by him...DRAW YOUR LINE IN THE SAND...
Again, I admit that I am not reading closely and may have missed something...
Mimi,
Sooo good to "hear" from you. Glad you are still popping in from time to time, but I am also glad you are giving DH the bulk of your time/attention. Very Cool!
You really didn't miss anything,,,,
In fact when you said this
He wants it HIS WAY...FRIENDLY CONVERSATION/COPARENTING...and eventually he will be wanting SF...with NO STRINGS..YUCK...
I think you are right on the money. If I opened up to him I am fairly sure this is EXACTLY where it would go. He is still all about him, his way, his 'needs'. Not one hint of any giving on his part.
I do wonder from time to time on "IF" reconciliation is a possibility. I am still of the mind that I would like to think so. However, I don't focus on it.
That includes NOT filling him on YOUR PLANS about dating...DARK....let him think that you are OVER him..MOVING ON.. UNLESS he complies with your conditions..what you do with your life NOW is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS....
He is not privy to anything having to do with MY life. I have shared nothing with him at all in this regard. I have had to let him know when I go out of town - the majority of the time it's been business, but I did take a personal weekend trip recently.
The only way he would know anything would be if anything were mentioned by mutal co-worker friends (which I doubt) OR if DD/DSS mention anything or he asks them (which I don't believe he does). I don't think he really cares at this point what I am doing & I am not really concerned.
I did have a talk with a friend about Drac's email re:DSS. Their opinion was also that he "needs" me for that reassurance, conversation, family support. I explained to them my feeling on that is this - Drac no longer deserves MY BEST or ANY part of me for that matter. He gave that up when he chose to have his A and then refused to work on our M. I showed him my best, despite his A, and he still chose to walk away.
So, while I am not going to sit and twiddle my thumbs while hoping he will be thumped over the head (or hit with that shovel) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />, I am not ready to enter the "real dating world". I will spend time with friends - - both male & female. I will do what I want, with the people I want to. Just living my life. It's really a pretty good one, too!
Who knows,,,,like I've always told my single friends - Love always seems to be found just when you stop watching and looking for it! Maybe that will happen to me, too!
I explained to them my feeling on that is this - Drac no longer deserves MY BEST or ANY part of me for that matter. He gave that up when he chose to have his A and then refused to work on our M. I showed him my best, despite his A, and he still chose to walk away.
WONDERFUL MINDSET!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Standing Ovation!!!!!!!!
HI! Missing you and seeing that you are doing fine!!
Good for you!
Thanks, Mimi! That mindset is working for me, so I'm stickiing with it!
Hey Rin! Thanks for the standing O. Don't know that it's truly deserved, as I do think about Drac waay too much, but I'll take it just the same.
2 emails from Drac late today.
One asking what time I am picking up DSS tomorrow, as he will be at the Aunt's house & he'll let her know what time.
My response - "Don't know. I will call her"
Second email was about transfer of a payment responsibility from me to him. He said he had the paperwork and that "he didn't know" if I'd already made the change. Do I need the paperwork.
My response - yes
He already knew this was something he was to be taking care of this! DUH!
So, not totally dark, but definately giving him the indifferent, short & to the point attitude! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Need to run DD to dance class. Will ck in with everyone's threads later.
You're doing great Bugs..
Off to my first appt with IC tonight.. I'll update my thread to let you know how it goes. Just wanted to drop in and say that you're doing -awesome-
Hey all!
Friday night was an annual event for the local work office that Drac & I always attended together until last year. Last year he was working elsewhere with the HO. This year, 'somehow' I wasn't 'offically' invited. So, it felt in a way that he 'took' some of what I always felt was part of MY territory.
I decided yesterday that while it would take very little effort on my part to be 'offically' invited, I was going to just let it go. Several folks asked if I was going, but I told them I had the kids for the weekend, so no.
I talked to the Aunt, and God Bless Her, she means well, but I can't seem to get her to shut up about Drac. She gets on a roll and doesn't stop. Seems his mother would like to "just slap" me in the face. No big surprise there. She only has Drac's spin on things, and frankly, she's not the brightest bulb in the first place. It bothers me a bit,,,, as I was always VERY good to her but it's not a big deal.
Drac has stated that I need to "get my $hit together" when it comes to DD and his rights to have her - - I need to "read the divorce papers". I just laughed at that. It didn't fly with the Aunt, either. She knows he's just trying to make me look like the a$$ that HE really is.
Those things bothered me, I will admit, but not like it has in the past. I didn't feel the strong need to *do* anything about it other than recognize my feelings and then let it go.
Drac only had me pick up DSS at the Aunt's house to keep me away from his place. So stupid! I ended up having to take DSS up there to get some jeans for this weekend. I stayed in the car,,,I have no real desire to go in there as it would hurt too much. Plus, I think it's important to show him that I didn't go in, even when I had the chance. I think it makes more of the impression of my having moved on. At least that is my hope.
I really do want him to believe that, even if it isn't really true ,,,yet.
I know I shouldn't waste time wondering about what he thinks, or planning MY actions around what he may or may not think - -- I AM getting better at it. I just am not all of the way there yet. I have a feeling that when I finally arrive at the place where I no longer consider those things that I will be DONE for good.
I will own up to the fact that I laughed when I saw he does have a For Sale sign on the boat! I would love it if I had the money to give a friend to go buy it!!
He told DSS that when they called last night, he might not answer because he had a "work meeting". I did say well no, it's a work "party". Turns out he did answer and talked to them. It does bother me a bit that I wasn't there. I am sure my absence was a topic of discussion around the party off and on.
I am going to hate having to hear all about it next week. We have the rescheduled customer golf outing Monday. I am attending early but then am leaving for an out of town business trip, so I won't be there for the after golf party. That is probably just as well. I held up great last time,,,,but that was prior to Plan B being in full force.
We had a GREAT night,,,,,made pizza from scratch. Each one gets to make their own pizza and put on all of their own toppings. They decided that each week we should all cook together and make something "from scratch". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We are doggy sitting for my sister. This morning brought some excitement when Sassy crawled under the fence and we could not find her. I almost had a heart attack! Thank God DSS found her!!
We are getting ready to go visit a local wildlife shelter - they even have bald eagles. Then tonight we are going to a professional hockey game. They are very excited.
So, off to the shower.
Now -that- is awesome. I -love- hockey but we've got bumpkis up here in the land of corn and basketball.
My brother and I are big Sabres and Red Wings fans.. but honestly I try to get to Chicago for a 'hawks game about once a year.. haven't since I got married though.. weird.. I may have to get to planning that trip.. besides, I need an excuse to hit Gino's East and get some -real- Chicago pizza.
Okokok.. enough threadjack..
Sounds like you're doing good and staying strong. Dogsitting is always an adventure, and I'm sure the excitement provided some good distractions.
Sorry to hear about the xMIL being difficult.. I'm hoping that all the things my IL's are saying aren't just talk..
Funny thing happened.. heard from FIL on the phone Friday.. apparently even WW's younger sister is against the separation, the A, and all of it.. which is weird because she's well.. kind of a ho bag herself.. but it is amusing nonetheless. I'm holding out hope that my IL's will still be there beyond the D.. but I can see the writing on the wall if the WW really is preggo.
Dangit.. T/J again.. I'll try to avoid that in the future.. just letting the thoughts flow.. how was the wildlife shelter and the hockey game?
Don't worry too much about the party or what happened there or who said what.. it honestly doesn't matter.. you had better things to do anyway.
Anyhow.. just dropped in to repay the favor and send hugs and support.. you really are doing well.
(((((Bugs)))))
James,
It's perfectly ok to TJ about hockey - it's my favorite sport and we are perfect rivals - - Go Blues!!!
Took DSS home last night. We stopped at the Aunt's house for a visit first - it didn't look like Drac was home yet. At the regular time, DD walked up to Drac's and I took the car with DSS. Turns out he was home, but parked on the lower part of the drive,,,,with a new washer and dryer on the trailer behind his SUV.
FIL was standing outside, Drac was inside. I got out, got DSS's stuff out of the trunk, gave hugs and said bye to him. Talked to FIL for a minute and told DD "let's go". She hadn't seen Drac yet, so I told her to bring me her Halloween bag she'd gotten from the Aunt. Just at that time Drac walked out the basement door.
I took DD's bag, went and put it in the car, walked around and got in the driver's side. He watched until DD ran up to him. He kept focused on her,,,but did give a sideways glance to see what I was doing. He finally put her down and the stared right at me.
I sat there in my Diva Glasses and looked right back til DD got in the car. I helped her with her seat belt, and as I turned around, he turned and walked inside.
It was HARD for me. I look at him and see a man I still love. DAMN!
This am, my cell phone rang and I didn't get to it in time to answer. It was the phone of Drac's that DSS uses now. I call RIGHT back,,,,it rang several times and DRAC answered.
I calmly said, "I thought that DSS called".
Drac mumbled something I couldn't understand and then immediately gave the phone to DSS. He's left his shaving kit bag here and was asking me about getting it to him. I said that I would, have a good week, I love you.
Now, DSS was leaving me a VM when I was calling back. WHY did DRAC answer the phone??? UGH.
Am not sure if Drac is going to be at the golf outing I am going to later. I will find out and if so, I will have someone there give him DSS's bag.
OR
Should I walk up and do it myself?
Opinions????
(((Bugs)))
I know what you mean about still seeing the man you love. Unfortunately it's just the outershell of the men we knew. There is not much inside. It still makes me twinge when I see my WH.
About DSS's bag I would do whatever makes YOU feel more comfortable. If you think you can handle giving it directly to him do it with Goddess attitude. If not that's okay too.
Thinking of you
Still
Thanks, Still.
Turns out that despite being all prepared to hand it over "Goddess Style", it didn't matter. Drac chose not to attend the tournament. That settled that.
I'd "like" to think that he didn't attend because it would be too hard for him to see ME in MY element, having fun, being admired by others. But, the truth is I have no idea why he chose not to come & even if the above is true, it's doubtful he'd admit to that,,even to himself. He's still justifying.
He did send me an email that morning,,,,asking about my travel plans - if I was going out of town that day or the next week. He also asked my plans for DSS's bag and said "Is there anything I can possibly do to help?"
That threw me for a loop for a while that day.
I made arrangements for FIL to get the bag and take it home with him. I emailed Drac, responded short & sweet that I was out of town this week and next week. Then informed him that Dad would bring DSS's bag home.
No response from Drac and no other communication from him.
Funny that he made a seemingly 'nice' offer to help out after seeing me again,,,,,,, am trying really, really hard not to read anything into that, but it is hard.
Gotta get DD ready for school.
Happy Halloween Everyone!
"What's a ghost's favorite cereal"
BOO-berries! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
LOL!
(((((Bugs)))))
Happy Halloween to you too.
I'm starting to get worried about you though, that you're concerning yourself far too much with what he's thinking about.
Yeah.. I know I'm -way- guilty of making assumptions for other people's thoughts and motivations too.. but look at the turmoil I'm putting myself through every day with this crap.. you're way farther ahead of me here.. you've got the final D.. time to stop worrying about Drac and his demons.. like it's time for me to stop worrying about IQ and hers.. we've got our own to slay.. and once -that- is done.. we can get on with our lives. Without our WS's.. or with them if they get to the finish line at our doorsteps in time. But ultimately, it's their race to lose.. not ours.
James,
You are right in giving too much thought to what he's thinking about. That continues to be a work in progress for me. The good news is that although I still do it, I have progressed to the point where it doesn't rule my life and my every waking thought the way it used to.
I continue on with my life, my plans, doing what I want/need/like to do for me, DD and DSS. I keep up the prayers for Drac,,,,letting God deal with him. I no longer think so much in terms of what I can/should/want to do with/for/because of him. Yes, it happens from time to time,,,like what to do about DSS's bag. Yet, I have graduated from sitting at the window, watching for his car lights when he pulls up to drop off DD each week. Now, I just go about my business that night and when she walks in the door, she walks in the door.
I had plenty of time during my 2 hour lay over the other day to do some meditating, praying, self reflection. I keep Drac offered up to God for Him to deal with. I ended up the other day with a visual of God and I walking down MY path. I saw the path I have been on over this last year. The times I sat and cried. The times he gently lifted and carried me. The times when I've had the strength to stand and walk. The times I was silly enough to try to walk on my own.
I saw clearly the path right now,,,God & I walking side by side,,,hand in hand down the path that He directs. We then came to a very thick hedge. I stopped and waited. I let Him lift his arm to clear back the hedge.
I didn't see clearly what was on the other side. It looked at first like Drac was there, but then it became foggy. I know He was just letting me know that it is up to him when he reveals this to me and that I need only trust that whatever awaits me on the other side is what he has planned for me.
I've said it before, and I will say it again. I know that when I completely stop having ANY thoughts about Drac's actions/thoughts/emotions/motivations,,,, I will truly be DONE. No more possibilities of an open door should he ever choose to stand at the doorstep.
I'm not there ,,,,,, yet.
Bugs:
Personally?
I think your one "blowing a kiss" his way to having him all over you.
So.
Either tighten up your ship and keep your distance, or let him in closer.
Cause that's what he wants.
He wants those EN's that you still fill, filled.
And if he can get some more, he will.
Pride do not necessarily go beforeth the possibility of some SF.
And I think that Drac is realizing that he might get a shot.
I'm not critizing "Plan Bugs". I just know the wayward mind better.
And Drac IS interested.
So tighten it up a bit.
No, you do not have to hide, but make yourself a little more aloof.
(((Bugsy)))
LG
Hey LG!
I think your one "blowing a kiss" his way to having him all over you.
So.
Either tighten up your ship and keep your distance, or let him in closer.
Cause that's what he wants.
He wants those EN's that you still fill, filled.
And if he can get some more, he will.
Pride do not necessarily go beforeth the possibility of some SF.
And I think that Drac is realizing that he might get a shot.
I'm not critizing "Plan Bugs". I just know the wayward mind better.
And Drac IS interested.
So tighten it up a bit.
No, you do not have to hide, but make yourself a little more aloof.
Funny you mention pride not necessarily going before the possibility of some SF. I was thinking along those terms myself today. I determined that in order for me to have some SF, my PRIDE and EVERYTHING I worked for this past year would be smashed to bits if I opened the door to Drac and allowed that to happen,,,,,as much as I really would like it to! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
In so many ways, I want you to be right,,,, that he does want those needs filled AND filled by me.
Yet I DO see that he is not yet in a place for me to do that. His Pride MUST fall first.
It was re-enforced to me late this afternoon. I had a call from my attorney. Drac has completed the re-finance of the house and the $$ should be released on Friday. The title company called my A and said they'd have a check for me for X dollars,,,,,but that at the same time I would have to sign paperwork stating he has complied and fulfilled his court ordered obligation.
OUCH. Another little stab to my heart.
I will call the title company back tomorrow and make arrangements to go there on Monday. That way I take no chance of running into Drac,,,,he could be there Friday doing his paperwork or at his A office, which is right next door.
Well, the good thing is that I'll have all of the settlement $$. I can start to make a plan for changing 'offical' ownership of the house to me and get some long term financial advise and plans in order.
Am off to get DD early,,,,,,,,trick or treating tonight in our MATCHING Girl Pirate Costumes!! WHOOO HOO!
You sound great, Bugs. Happy Halloween!
Hey SD,
Do I really sound great?? Thanks!
Frankly, I 'feel" Ok,,,
I think I 'look' pretty good,,,,
but I worry/wonder about the frequent "Drac Attacks" I seem to have.
Wishing I didn't still want him, but alas, I do. Actually, I don't want Drac,,,he'd suck the blood & the life right out of me!!
Want my H. Miss him a lot. And then LG had to mention the old SF,,,,,,,,,,wow,,,,what a distant memory THAT has become! LOL!
Ok, maybe a meet myself a great Goblin or Zombie tonight!! he he!
I think I 'look' pretty good,,,,
This made me think about your girl pirate costume. Oh wait, that's not what you meant.
So, you're not done yet. And you know that you're not done yet, and that's where you seem strong. You understand what it means and what the risks are and what the possibilities are. You seem to know what you're doing. I admire your togetherness (togetherhood?).
From my perspective, you are right not to be done. You may be divorced, but I think it's far from over (unless you decide that it is over).
SF stands for San Francisco, right?
((Bugs))
I dunno Bugsy.. I think I might be with lousygopher here..
I think Plan Bugs might just have a few more windows and doors in it than you're ready for.
I'm not exactly one to talk.. my modified Plan B is filled with kindness and warmth when I do interact with her.. and it seems to be having some results.
It also lets me hurt and agonize about this more than I should as I 'let go'..
It was a beautiful image you crafted about your walk with God.. I'm going to copy that and keep that folded up in a page of my journal.. I hope I can look back down the road and have the same vision.
You really are doing great.. just, if you find yourself hurting more than normal about this.. tighten it up like LG said.. you can still keep a Plan B in your pocket like Orchid says.. to protect Bugs.
Sd,
Well, since you mention it,,,, the Pirate Girl Costume DID look pretty HOT! It would have been more so, but I wore pants under it, as last night was 'family' oriented! Couldn't do much to cover up the cleveage though!! LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
SF - yeahhh, San Francisco,,,, that's the ticket,,,, that's what I meant! Which is true, because Drac did take me on a surprise trip there once,,,,,,,, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
James,
Doors & windows - nice visual! You may be right that there are too many in Drac's view right now, but I think having given him a glimpse of them is OK - MAYBE, just MAYBE they will make him think of them,, of ME ,,,as coming HOME someday. I still hope so.
So, we had a GREAT time last night & both of us did look good in our matching costumes. DD called Drac when we were in the car, so unfortunately, I did hear his voice a bit. He truly does miss her, I could hear it in his voice.
I talked to DSS, , they went to the 'usual' friend's house for Halloween where we would always go. Makes sense, though, because that is what Drac did before we met. Wonder if they thought about us?? I know,,, take my own advice and 'don't go there', right?
So, Drac is to have DD tonight. I am leaving her dance things at the front door. I will have to email him to remind him she has class tonight and to pick her things up for her beforehand.
I will close up the doors a bit tonight when he drops off. No glimpses of Bugs thru the door or the window tonight.
Gotta run,,,
Give without motive, with the thought of expectation, because Bugsy WANTS to, because it fills Bugsy UP.
But always be wary of a wayward trying to climb thru that opened window.
He's liable to break in, trip over something, running into the kitchen island, where you left a carving knife out, slash his side with it, then sue you for damages. Zoiks! Keep an eye on those windows...
Hey all!
Silent,,,,you slay me! ZOINKs and Jenkies!!
Sent Drac email saying I figured he was taking DD to dance class tonight, told him her bag was between the front doors and gave him the info on where & when to go. I really do think he needs to go to her classes,,,,it's what she is interested in and I know it would mean a lot to her for him to be there to watch her.
he replied that he planned "Daddy time" tonight.
I asked if that meant she was skipping class or if he was bringing her home for me to take her
He said "She IS skipping class"
I didn't bother to reply. It really felt like he was trying to pick a fight with me, but I don't play that!
At quarter to 5 he emails and says he decided to leave it up to DD on what she wanted to do and that she wanted to go to class because they were wearing their Halloween costumes,,,and did I leave it, too??
I said no, but that although I had plans to be out, I could run by the house and leave it for HER.
He asked if I "had time to stay so she could come in and change"
I replied that I would "Make time".
He at least said thanks. Truth is, I have no plans tonight (obviously), but that's not his business. Also, it became obvious that he now has a Blackberry, as his emails were from his ususal address,,,,,,,,,Interesting.
He then sends a TM on the phone as I am driving home wanting to know "what's up with DD's makeup?"
I replied "what makeup" He said she had on eye makeup. Yeah,,,,, like I know ALLOW a SIX YEAR OLD to wear eye makeup?? I just replied "Halloween" I wanted to add DUH!, but I didn't.
I'd barely gotten into the house to find her costume when she walked in the door. I got her changed and back out the door while he waited in the car. The blinds were closed and I never went close to the door. I left my car parked in the driveway and not in the garage,,, because I was going out! LOL! It's now in the garage.
So, lots of 'interaction' via email,,,,,,,,,,,,,but Bugs is BUSY BUSY BUSY.
Acutally, I am a bit busy, , , will fill you in later on the weekend plans - - I am going to have some FUN!
You're sounding great Bugs..
Watch out that deception doesn't become your method of dealing with Drac... that'll certainly be a bad foundation to build upon if you ever 'wink' at em..
Just pointing out the orange barrels on the side of the road.. you're doing real good!
((((Bugs))))
James,
GPS systems are in place,,, thanks for making sure of that!
I hear you,,,I think it's pretty minor what I did tonight. It made ME feel better, which is the Main point.
Lexxy,
I just read this post of yours,,,,,,,,,,
Its about not trusting the changes. Its about not believing the sincerity behind them.
I always felt that my BH would do ANYTHING to make me stay...but didn't really care about ME. He only wanted to save face, get what HE wanted, and keep me in the WIFE spot.
There was such an intimacy gap, that he wasn't reaching ME. He lost his path to ME. He only interacted with me as his wife, the kid's mom -- we had lost US.
And any of his attempts to bridge that gap were met with total distrust. Because I didn't feel (and hadn't for many years) that he cared about ME. He only wanted to keep his wife in place. And I felt SUFFOCATED
WOW = WOW = I could hear DRAC in that. I really could. I KNOW he doesn't TRUST that the changes he saw in me during Plan A were sincere, long lasting, and for real! I KNOW it. I KNOW it was what 'helped' him keep walking down the D path,,,,,,,,,along with a lot of other things (HO, , DUH)
I just wanted to say thanks for that post. It helps me know that even where I am,,,,,, that the changes I have made in ME,,, the ones that are REAL are there. Someday, Drac will see that.
Granted, it will most likely be too late - but for some reason it makes me feel better to have read your post. How WEIRD is that? Does anyone understand what I am feeling?
It's like today,,,,,when he tried to pick a fight with me and I didn't bite. The OLD Bugs would have Jumped at the chance and pointed out what an A$$ he was,,,I would have gone straight down a path in making assumptions at what he was saying, thinking, and feeling. I would have helped that grow into a problem.
No more. And when I didn't,,,,,,there he was again.
Or am I just waaaaay off base here???
Oh wow.....
Lexxxy's post hits home with me too.
I could hear those exact words come out of IQ's mouth... matter of fact, in a round about way.. I think I have.
Wow..
So I guess the answer then.. is consistency.. of course, we knew that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Wow... you know.. it's awesome we have such great folks here to help us out.
Read a story a while back and I keep getting reminded of this message. In the case of Lexxxy's post it really applies to help us understand what the thought processes might be on the other side:
God doesn't always send us angels.. sometimes He uses regular people.
Thank you God for Lexxxy tonight.
DD came in the door earlier than expected - but that was a good thing. I was downstairs doing laundry and then wasn't even tempted to look outside.
She had a good time & I think was happy her Daddy was there to watch her dance.
She asked me, "so where were you out PARTYING"
I looked at her in disbelief and said, "What?! why would you ask that?"
She said that Daddy said you were out 'partying' tonight.
yeah,,,with 1 1/2 hours free time, I'm the Party Queen!
Now, granted, Drac uses the term "partying" very, very loosely. He jokes with the kids that they are going to "party like rock stars" when talking about planning for any given day,,,,,,,,,,,,but it surprised me.
She normally says NOTHING about what he says and NEVER asks me what I've been doing when she is with him.
Is it possible,,,,,,he is actually giving a second thought to what I may or may not be doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Is it possible,,,,,,he is actually giving a second thought to what I may or may not be doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
(((Bugs)))
Does it matter what he's thinking if he isn't beating down your door begging you for forgiveness?
Keepin strong for Bugs!!
Could just be that he mentioned you were going out partying to DD.. and she just wants to know what kind of fun you're having without her..
Possible but irrelevant until he does a lot more than think about it. Keep on keepin' on.
(((Bugs)))
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> He's manipulative, Bugs. He's her Dad. He knew how to get her to say that to you.
His MOI, using his daughter to get to you.
Triangling her in is what p'es me off!
He had no good reason to say that to her and IMO it was AWFUL.
Use this as a learning opportunity for her: "Your Dad has a right to his OPINION. An OPINION is not THE TRUTH.
Help her learn TO SPEAK and to SEEK THE TRUTH..."Daddy, we can't really know what Mommy is doing, now....
For HIM, as others have said, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN ANY WORDS OR QUESTIONS...
He knows where you live when.. if ever.. he wants to reconcile with you...
Bugs:
Remember he's in a sick frame of mind. He wants to be the upper handed person. Not knowing where you were to be going means that he is not in control.
I would try to keep answers to dd vague at this point, so that what is said doesn't go back to him.
You are doing a great job !!!!!
Hey All,
I've been a bit busy these last few days, and also doing a lot of thinking.
When asked, "does it matter what he's thinking?" Well, to be honest, yes, it matters to me. I know it shouldn't but it still does.
No - he's not here at my door wanting to reconcile and that is the only acceptable return for me. Yet, knowing him as I do, I know it's a progressive process for him. Him finally giving a second thought as to me and what/where I am vs not giving me a single thought could be a beginning of a change.
Does that change necessarily lead him down the path to taking responsibility for his actions and being truly sorry and eventually leading to reconciliation with me? No, I know that it doesn't. But, it 'could'. That was what I chose to recognize on Thursday.
I can envision the conversation he had with DD - It was very likely said in an off-handed way by Drac to DD. Yes, Mimi, he knew it would elicite the response it did from DD to me. Did he think about that and do it on purpose? Nobody knows but Drac.
No, he had no right to say that. DD's vision of 'partying it up' is quite different than mine or Drac's,,, thank goodness. To be fair and not judgmental, it could have been his way of simply saying that I wasn't home OR it could have been the adult, negative, view of a party girl out drinking & flirting. Again, an unknown.
Yes, I did use it as a teaching opportunity for DD, but did so as lightly as I could so that it did not seem like a Big Deal to DD that he made the comment or that it was hurtful in any way. She is very, very, sensitive about saying anything that might be hurtful to anyone and I make sure that nothing she brings to the conversation as a result of Drac makes her feel that way.
So, all of that said, I haven't changed where I am or how I feel. I continue to do my thing,,,live my life. It was a blip on the radar screen that perhaps I could consider - SOMEDAY- allowing him ON my radar screen fulltime. That's it. I'm not changing the radar coverage area to accomodate him.
Today am going to work on getting out those winter sweaters,,,putting away the Diva swimsuits - meeting my mom at an estate sale and then puppy proofing my yard.
Hope all of you have a great day!
Puppy Proofing...HEY, I'm there with you! That's alot harder than I thought it was going to be...tons of places where she can crawl under the fence!
How are you BUGS? It sounds to me that you are doing great for the most part!
I hope those are Goddress sweaters!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Take care!
Hey Rin!
Definately kept out just the Goddess Sweaters! Lol!
Fence is done. Sweaters are out. Swimsuits away.
Picked up the summary judgement check today from the title company where Drac re-financed the house. So, I have the bulk of what he owes me. He still owes another property payment and 1/2 of another payment for Oct. He sent CS check in with DD last night.
DD told me he'd be emailing me about a schedule change. I had suspected something a week or so ago when I heard that DSS said he'd be spending time w/FIL both Wed & Thurs nights. Drac emailed me today, saying he'd already talked to DD (which ticks me off) and asked if it would work for me to have him pick her up on Thursdays, too. They would have dinner, he would take her to dance, watch for a while, and leave at 7pm, then I could could come watch and then take her home.
First, it makes me mad that he talked to her before talking to ME. Of course, this is a play on his part so that if for ANY reason I would say no, then I am the 'bad guy' in DD's mind. What a a jerk.
It's like he's trying to pick some kind of fight with me, but doing so on the down low,,,,,, he won't come straight out with anything definative, , just little things to try to pick at me. OR maybe he's just that dense and self centered that it doesn't occur to him at all since I am still persona non grata. Whatever - I refuse to fight.
The truth is, per the parenting ageement, he could have her Wed & Thurs nights on the weeks when I have her for the weekend. So, rather than make a deal about it, I simply responded that it would be a great idea on the weeks when he does not have her for the weekend as she was really happy when he took her last week. It starts this week.
I kept it short & simple.
Am going to meet our potential new family member tomorrow morning! Hope he's as sweet in person as his picture is. I will have to have someone come do a home inspection before they will allow us to have him, but that should not be a problem. I put fencing up around all of the potential esacpe routes in the back yard.
I really hope it all works out,,,, by this weekend, as we are having DD's party here on Sunday.
Gotta run,,, I have tons to do as I am travling AGAIN this week and have way too much to get done both here at home & at work.
UGH - dreamed about Drac last night. It was actually a pleasant dream,,,,,,,,,until I woke up. Darn I hate it when that happens!
Since the time change this weekend, I've tried to keep getting up at the same time as before. I figure I may as well since I wake up at that time. Am starting a bit of exercise. With the winter months and the holidays starting, now's a good time to get ahead of the normal winter weight gain! Living too close to my Mom in dangerous,,,,,,,,,she LOVES to bake and is really good at it!
Busy day today - am going to meet Romeo this morning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I figure it's time for a new man in my life.
I certainly deserve someone who is going to love me unconditionally, someone who is ALWAYS going to be happy to see me, someone who will cuddle with me and keep me warm on those long winter nights, someone who likes to take long walks together, and then even just play together wherever we may go!!
He's a 2 year old Pom/Shih Tzu mix. Yeah, ok, that was a weak attempt at some humor, but it's the best I could do before 6 am!
Have a great day everyone!
I am a big fan of the shorter the response, the better.
My intermediary would respond to WH's lengthy requests with "Fine." or "OK." Zero emotion, zero commentary...no fodder for the waywards to pick over.
"That is fine. To confirm, you will pick DD up on Thursday and I will pick her up at dance at 7:00."
That way, if he is just trying to pick at you, he's not getting any reaction. And if he's just dense, you are spelling it out for him in very simple language that any adolescent (which is what he is acting like) could understand.
You also have documentation in case there is every any question.
Question: Can't you have CS auto-deposited and done through the state? Is there a reason that he's giving you checks (that you have to rely on DD to deliver) instead of doing it through the bureaucracy?
I am SOOO glad to hear about the puppy. Getting a dog was the best decision I made in a LOOOONG time. She is so affectionate and has such a happy personality. I can't imagine not having her around, especially when the boys are gone. (I could live without the little piles of hair that accumulate, however. Yuck.)
Sorry to hear about Christmas break. I was just crabbing about my schedule to my mom last night, but after reading about your and sd's dilemmas, I am grateful that I won't have some of those same issues. In my case, ILs traditionally celebrate on Christmas Eve and my family on Christmas Day, so we had it specified as such in the agreement. No muss, no fuss, no bother. It's just the days during the break that will need to be negotiated.
Good luck with the potential new addition! Hope s/he is a sweetie!
Bugs:
I heard the perfect sermon this morning. Hebrews 12.
God corrects us because he is making us more holy.
We are going though these tough times because GOD wants us to be more like him.
Kindof like when we catch our children doing something we don't like and we let them know and give them time outs.
God is giving us our time out. He is reprofing us and making us more holy. And as long as we don't "faint" meaning give up, then we will see peace. We just have to be patient and wait while God finishes with us.
I have been so tempted to jump the gun. I met someone at my divorcecare group and I could easily give up and go on. That's not what God would like though. SO although this guy is handsome, strong, very curteous, polite, cooks, cleans and is a christian: I have to be patient and wait for God's timing. Same with you. Keep listening to God.
((((BUGS)))))
Hey Sis,
At this point with the CS, I can have Drac auto-deposit to my account through work, but haven't set it up yet. For someone who is SO against doing anything "thru the children" it surprises me that he is giving them the checks to pass to me. I will get to the auto depost thing next week and fix that.
Was out of town for 2 days,,,,and was asked out 'for drinks' while I was gone. I declined - I was already in my room & ready for bed. I know it would have been enjoyable, but I also had a big presentation early the next am. Mostly, though, I'm just not ready, even for 'just drinks'. Sad but true.
My plane did land in time for me to pick up DD from dance last night. Drac took her last week and asked about doing so for the coming future,,,, yet it was necessary for him to TM me last night to ask what time it started? And then another TM to be sure I was picking her up?? I gave the time and then simply said "pick up is covered'.
I had time to go by my house to drop off my bags and I 'think' Drac did a drive by. I had just finished something in my office and for some reason looked out the window. I live on a cul-de-sac and whoever it was drive down the street and turned right around & drove back. I didn't get much of a look, so maybe it wasn't him. Guess it doesn't really matter.
Have a LOT to do today, am going to try to work from home, go see another potential puppy. Romeo was sweet, but was much bigger than his picture - Too Big for what we want. I also have to figure out when/how I am getting DSS for the weekend. I have conference calls most of the day, so can't leave early like I usually do, which is too bad, because DSS doesn't have school today.
I called him last night when I was driving home & asked him where he would be today because he didn't have school. He said he didn't know. I was like "what"??? He said he'd just remembered to tell Drac he was off school that am, and he wasn't sure yet where he'd be today but he'd call me when he knew for sure.
I know it shouldn't surprise me, but why didn't DRAC know already that DSS didn't have school today? *I* KNEW!! UGH!
I know,,, let it go,,,, but that stuff ticks me off. Parents are supposed to be Parents. It's OUR job to know and plan for this stuff. Gee, so glad to know as Drac has pointed out, that *I* am the one that needs to get MY S$IT together!! LOL!
(((((BUGS)))))
Hey.. take it as a compliment.. he knows, acknowledges, and understands that you're the -real- parent here.
The one who keeps up with the kids schedules, makes sure that they're where they needs to be.
Seems to me he's comfy being a guest in their lives.
Not a great thought, but look at it this way.. -someday- that's going to come back and haunt him. Just another log to stoke the guilt fire when his relationship hits the rocks.
You can't be a Father -for- him... just like I can't be a mom for the Ice Queen.
Hope you enjoyed the trip (even if there were no drinks involved), and that it gave you some time to get your mind off this crap, even for a little bit.
What's Bugs doing for Bugs this weekend?
Bugs,
Just want you to know that I've followed your thread. I'm not one to offer any advice, but I'm here with you, cheering for you.
Hey Chai!
Morning! Thanks for stopping by and for the support!
I need to catch up completely on your thread,,,,I just haven't had a lot of time the last couple of weeks.
This morning I am taking DD and DSS to "interview" a little puppy that I met yesterday and think we are going to Rescue for DD's birthday. I just told her we had to go get one of her presents today because it is hard to wrap and she asked if it was a puppy!! Yesterday she told me - out of the blue - that she misses my sister's dog that is almost EXACTLY like the one I have picked out! Definately a sign to ME that he is the right one. I am SO excited!!
I took DD with me last night to pick up DSS from the Aunt's house. Seems Drac did not even call the Aunt to ask if he could send DSS there yesterday because there was no school. She didn't know anything til DSS showed up at her door yesterday am.
Drac called later in the day to see if I'd picked up DSS yet. Aunt let him know she was not happy about not getting called. Then they had some sort of discussion about DD's bday parties and her gifts. Long story short, Aunt told him she was not going to either party, but would send gifts to one or the other.
Drac's reply was that the gifts should "remain in the family". Her reply was that no matter which house (his or mine) she sent the gifts to, the WOULD still be in the family, that she told him "what? you think because you divorced Bugs that she's not family any more? She is and that little girl is our flesh & blood - they will both always be family".
WOW
She told him she felt their family is 'falling apart'. Drac replied that it has been falling apart for some time. Aunt replied "Yes, and YOU certainly pushed it and helped it fall apart even MORE with what YOU have done"
Obviously, Drac was not happy. Problem is that we all know that *I* will be blamed for this in Drac's eyes. No telling how he will try to take it out on me. Oh well, we all Know how a WS can't stand to hear the TRUTH. Too bad the Aunt wasn't so vocal MONTHS ago.
But, that is not my problem. It's still all in God's hands. maybe he'll use this now to speak more to Drac,,, maybe now is the right time for Drac to hear those things and maybe it all won't make a darn bit of difference.
While I 'hope' that it does,,,,,it's not a worry for me to own.
I had issues with DSS not listening and talking disrespectfully last night,,,,,,,,it got pretty bad but I held my ground and it was much better before the night was over. thank goodness! I won't have him talking to me and treating me like one of his 13yr old buddies, even though Drac lets him talk to HIM that way. It makes it tough on DSS, but he HAS to learn the difference and know that he must show parent and adults the proper RESPECT!
Gotta run and get in the shower,,,,,,,,,,we have a new arrival due today!!
Bugs:
DSS is a Little Mouthy?
Could be all that stability in his life, HUH?
Drac? Can I introduce you to "son of Drac?"
"I didn't create that!" & "It was "fill in the blanks" fault!"
So.
Keep being Mom as much as possible.
Post a picture of the new dog on the MB photo thread!
LG
SON OF DRAC...LOL... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Son of Drac - too funny!
It is rather Amazing, though, that once we get through the inital time together, DSS becomes the Dss I know and love again. Yes, all that stability! It comes to my house every other weekend with a smart mouth and dirty clothes! Had to wash the clothes he brought because they were all dirty! UGH.
After a mentally exhausting day, Beau has joined our family. He is about 10 lbs of love and just as sweet as can be. He seems to know what it means to live in a human house,,, no accidents, sleeps in bed with me or DD, does well on his leash, listens,,,,I am just SO in love with him already.
DD commented that she thinks he "loves her TOO much" as he tried several times to hump her last night! LOL!!
In the middle of the adoption process, Drac sent a TM asking me what I was getting DD for her birthday! I LOL!! Later when I had time, I replied I was getting her High School Musical "stuff".
He then replied "I would like to get her an iPod. What do you think?"
Well, I think NO 7 year old needs a $200 electronic anything. Also, he has no computer at home, which would mean Bugs would have to spend the time downloading music and paying for it - which I am NOT going to do.
So, I replied, "I think she is too young".
Which, of course, means that next weekend I expect DD to come home with an iPod. If I think it's not a good idea, I can almost guarantee Drac will do it. It's like that phone commercial that is on now - the one with the couple where the girl asks the guy his opinion and every time goes with the OPPOSITE of what he says! LOL!
DD called him last night. Got VM. He finally called back over an hour later. I had put the phone on vibrate because DSS was already asleep. Drac left vm that I let DD listen to, guess he said he was sorry he missed the call and that they could call him in the am. I ought to let them call right now!! LOL!!
Well, we have another BIG day. Birthday Party today! I am trying to focus on what I told DD last night - we are SO blessed! We have a GREAT home, a GREAT family, a GREAT new dog!!! I am going to stay so busy that I don't notice the hole that remains in my heart with Drac not being here with us.
Well, we have another BIG day. Birthday Party today! I am trying to focus on what I told DD last night - we are SO blessed! We have a GREAT home, a GREAT family, a GREAT new dog!!! I am going to stay so busy that I don't notice the hole that remains in my heart with Drac not being here with us.
Sounds like you're doing GREAT Bugs <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
That hole keeps getting smaller and smaller as we fill it up with other things doesn't it?
You keep your head up, your feet on the ground, and let God and your kids fill any emptiness in your heart. You're in my prayers.
((((Bugs))))
Bugs:
Are you more interested in keeping up with Drac in the gift area?
Will your 7 year old lose/break the Ipod? Maybe, maybe not. It is YOUNG for something that is SO easy to misplace.
Will you have to download the songs? No. That's YOUR Choice. Have DD ask her father for a credit card number to pay for the songs. And let DD learn how to do it. You do not have to. You might also send Drac another email. Ipod is OK. But it needs to stay at Drac's house. So if someting goes wrong, it's not at your House. I mean, your gift, the dog, is staying at your house, right? And since Drac only gets a couple of days, the odds of something going wrong with the Ipod at your house is alot greater. Heck, simple MP3 players are $50.
BTW: IF the Ipod comes to your house, make sure all your Virus software, and firewalls are up-to-date. The Apple site is ok, but there is plenty of bad stuff out there.
Let me give you an another example.
My DS is 15 now. We bought him a cell phone. Son and I bought the one with the double flip and QWERTY keyboard. AND it cost $100 more than the basic phone. Which is what DW and I discussed. We assumed a RAZR phone for DS. But this was $100 more.
DW thinks.... WHY did you BUY that ONE? He will Just lose it, or break IT!
Maybe. Maybe Not. But isn't that a DJ to your son?
It been four months. Still going strong.
Sometimes it is the viewpoint.
I would be more disappointed in the dirty clothes and potty mouth of DSS. That is more an indicator of a failure of parenting.
This is the age that DSS WILL turn into a MAN. And his greatest influence? Is busy elsewhere. Tragic.
Nice that the AUNT finally spoke up. But only when she was inconvienced. "Well, all that splitting up families stuff is between you two, can't say anything about THAT. But NOW that DRAC ASSUMES that DSS can hang at her house, now we read him the riot act."
Too little, too late.
Have fun with the dog. Brings your new house to more of the sanctuary that you NEED it to be.
Kind of harsh in this post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Sorry. I really did not mean to be. Just wanted to comment on a couple of the issues in your thread.
Overall? I think you are doing great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Do not know what is up with DRAC. I still think he would fall all over himself to have you back.
But you would have to be the one to drop your GUARD. And let him in. And you have already done that. All thru plan A.
And you stated quite clearly what he needed to do in your plan B letter. IF, and thats a big IF, he has done some of the things requested, it wouldn;t be that big a step to get back with you. But you know, each journey begins with the first step.
And HE has to make this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Just my .02
Enjoy the birthday party! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
(((BUGSMOM))) (((BUGS)))
LG
Hey LG!
I didn't take your post as being too harsh, just honest observations on your part. And, as usual, good observations.
I already decided that whether Drac buys the iPod or not is his choice. He asked me what I "thought".
I told him what I thought.
From there it's not for me to say any more. He will do what he will do.
Does it make any sense for me to send an email with further explaination of my decision. Maybe. Maybe not.
I know I shouldn't, but I think of how Drac would interpret that email. Would he take it as a sign of my wanting to be friendly co-parents? Because I still do not want that. I know it may be wrong of me,,, but that is how I feel.
I am not one for playing the "keeping up" game when it comes to the kids,,,, as the KIDS are the ones that end up losing in that game. They don't need to be "bought". They DO need good parents who are there, who teach them the important lessons of life, who are THERE for them in every way. That is what I am most concerned with.
The puppy did GREAT today. He was the perfect gentleman to all of our guests. No accidents either! When needed a break, he went and lay down on my bed. As DD & I said this morning, God had a plan for him to be in our family!! We just had to be patient for the plan to come together.
The party went really well. Fun was had by all. Bugs is EXHAUSTED!! I still have to take DSS home in a little while. I am sure DD is going to sleep on the way there and probably the way home, too!
She was a good little hostess, too!
I need another day off to recover!! Think I will schedule that next year.
As for Drac,,,, yes, the first step needs to be made by Him. I have total doubt that he will ever take it, but I am still hopeful.
He has ended things with the HO,,,,but probably has had/still has others on the line since then. His ending it with her has/had nothing to do with wanting any reconciliation with me. So, really, he's done nothing specific to my Plan B letter requests.
As you say, I 'could' let my guard down and I think it would not be too difficult to garner his attention. But, I don't want it that way. I want/need/require HIM to take that first step.
Gotta run,,,,time to gather up DSS's stuff for the drive.
Thanks for checking in!
YOU GOT IT, GIRL!!!
Absolutely STAY DARK on HIM!!
I still see him as using BUGS to (TRY) to CATCH you...
THE FISH AIN'T BITING!!!
He can buy her whatever he wants to...
LOL... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
BUGS;
Just my opinion, but I think you've been a little too open and friendly. Not really Plan B anymore, KWIM?
A lot of times a BS will take peek out of Plan B -- to see if the WS is still wayward, ya know? But, you're way past the peek. He's not using your intermediary anymore. He feels free to text you anytime he wants.
He's still looking to you to fill the domestic support need - like running things about the kids by you, pick ups drop offs, etc. Not dark anymore.
He's not going to hit bottom that way.
So, if you're not going be in a true Plan B. Then go divorce busting on him. IMO (again, just my opinion) he will react VERY strongly to you dating; or thinking that you are....
My vote is for staying in the PLAN B mode.
I think he wants you to start dating for further justification given his comment to Bugs about you out "partying"..
And I happen to know that the Harleys don't favor the Divorce Busting approach and you know about me and the Harleys..
Hey Lexxxy & Mimi!
Well, I am certainly not in a total dark Plan B, that's obvious. I did give up the strictness of it with the D going through.
I don't know anything about 'divorce busting' at all to say any of it is good or bad.
What I can tell you is about what happened tonight and ask for opinions,,,, which I sorely need.
We took DSS home. It was dark by that time. We said our goodbyes and the kids went in the house. I always allow DD to go in and say hi to Drac. I sat in the car, parked with the front to the road, ready to pull out when DD came out.
I wasn't paying attention - I was jamming to a cd, tapping the steering wheel and dancing a bit in my seat. I glance back, and there is DD almost to the car and Drac is RIGHT BESIDE HER WALKING TO THE CAR!
He was carrying something. I turned back to face the front and waited for him to let DD into the car. He didn't close the door, so I looked back again and he was holding up an old metal file box of mine, looking at me and says, "Do you want this?"
I replied, "Put it in the trunk". I turned back facing forward, popped the trunk, and stayed facing forward until the back car door was closed after he put the box in the trunk and said goodbye to DD.
She had a problem with her seat belt, so I had to turn on the light and help her. I got her buckled in and then started to pull out. She rolled down her window and called goodbye to him. He wasn't yet to the house, which means he had to have stood there watching us.
I just do not know what to think or what to say,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyone have ANY thoughts on this?
I'm going to take a bit before I comment.
Oh yeah, he's itching for a Bugs fix and really pushing the envelope with you. I'll let the pros advise you though because my wrong instinct would have been to follow my heart, and I think that would have been a defeating move for you at this point.
I'm thinking..write him a PLAN DIVORCE letter...spelling it all out for him...I'M NOT GONNA BE YOUR FRIEND, etc...
Let him know ON WHAT TERMS that YOU CAN "DATE"...
Of course, you are now FREE to "DATE" anyone you want to...
But, if it were me, if it was my X-HUSBAND who divorced me for another woman, the terms AGAIN would be a NC LETTER...
BTW..I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE IT that you were JAMMIN' IN THE CAR...
Mimi..whose H is always telling her to "TURN THE MUSIC DOWN in your car"....
Oh, the GLAMOUROUS LIFE OF GODDESSES!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I know it may be wrong of me,,, but that is how I feel.
If that is how you feel, then it's not wrong. It may change at some point. Maybe someday you can do the friendly co-parent thing, but not yet.
I agree that Drac probably wants a Bugs-fix, but he needs to show a LOT more before you can respond to it.
Ok,
So we are all in agreement that his move last night was designed just to get a look at me. He could have sent DSS out to the car with the box, but he didn't.
Mimi - I have to tell you, that the revived Goddess threads around here have helped me remember to go with those instincts,,,,,,,,,like jamming in the car! DD and I Jammed all the way home too!
I am thinking the letter may be a good idea,,,,,,,,,soon. Just not yet.
This weekend is the party he is having for DD's birthday. I think it will be a bit of an eye opening experience for him to do that all on his own without BUGS there taking care of everything.
I know how yesterday was a bit nerve racking for me, and i had the full support of Mom, Sis, and my niece there to help me. He has a few friends, but I can almost guarantee it's going to be a lot harder than he even imagines.
I 'think' he may get to the end of the day and be thinking about me - both in terms of having my domestic support,, but also how it's just not the same without us all together as a Family for such an important day.
That's what I am thinking,,,,,,????????
Good morning Bugs! I don't believe I have posted to you before, but I have been following your story and cheering for you all the way.
Here is what I think is going on in Drac's head right now...I think with the "loosening" of your Plan B rules, he is hoping the freeze out is coming to an end. He survived your "punishment" and slowly but surely, you are coming around. If he can play this right, y'all will soon be joking around, being friendly and sharing your DD and DSS lives as good friends. And then, he can say to himself, "See, I knew what I had done wasn't all that bad."
That's just how I am reading him.
As for you, WOW! You really are moving forward. I almost pity Drac...missing out on this new you. He hasn't a clue what he gave up...and what/who he gave it up for. Such a pity!
Bugs:
Yes. Plan "BUGS" has gotten a little TOO loose.
The Box?
Did you open it? What was in it?
He was hoping to have THAT discussion with you.
"Put it in the Trunk" Great!
But Ruby is right. "I knew what I had done wasn't all that bad"
Tighten it up a little bit. You don't have to hide, but you can always just be "behind the curtain"
I would call him "drac" next time. OOOPS! Did I say that? I meant "xxxxx"
Then ignore him.
LG
I'm in the lot of jamming in the car often...dancing in my seat, singing, sometimes, at the top of my lungs, acting silly with the boys in the car...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Ok, in the effort to tighten up, I need help in how to reply to this email I recv'd first thing today from Drac.
"The reason I considered the ipod for DD is that she asks for it every time we are together, and she really has a love for music. In the end it would be easier and cheaper than trying to purchase the music she enjoys. Is it that you think it will end up lost like the Gameboy, a little to much responsibility at this time for her to keep track of?
The $ was for her class pictures, I have the check for the X property here for you, I will put it in her pack Wednesday."
The draft reply I wrote is
'No doubt she would love it. It is your choice, as it is your gift.
FYI - the other property payment was deducted from my acct Oct 22'
The last part is in reference to another payment that he was supposed to take over effective post divorce. He has not paid me for the Oct pmt or even mentioned it.
Help!!
I think you have a nasty tightrope to walk since you've re-opened communication with him.
To abrupt and he'll think you're a being vindictive and bitter.
To friendly and he'll take that as a balm to his guilty conscience.
I don't really understand why you're doing this. Can you refresh my memory? I think you need to be in a Plan. I don't understand what your plan is. What do you hope to gain from quasi-Plan B?
Plan B means dark/silent, use your intermediary for communication.
Drac:
I have stopped the auto-withdrawal for Y from my acct. You owe $x.xx for it.
Please deliver checks, and paperwork thru the US Mail. Per Your request NOT to include the children in coorespondence.
Bugsmom
Make NO MENTION of the IPOD.
You already have answered him about this.
Stay a little darker that way.
LG
I agree with Lexx..it's OK to still use the intermediary...
Here is the post I wrote to Lexxxy before seeing those from LG and Mimi - I am having to post from my Blackberry today so am going to be a bit behind,,
Lexxxy,
When my D became final, I gave up the total dark restrictions of Plan B as I really had no hopes of any kind of future relationship with Drac. My actions have been more based on what is easiest in My life and what causes ME the least amount of pain/issues/grief/etc. (not totally, but mostly)
I don't know exactly how to describe it. While I still love my XH, and would certainly entertain reconciliation with him under the right circumstances,,,,,,,,,,the days of it being my #1 priority had passed with the signing of the divorce by the judge and with Drac's final actions in that regard.
I do NOT want to have friendly co-parenting with him, as I have said. I am still of the mind/heart that if I can not have a marriage to my DH, then I want no "relationship" with Drac. I don't want to discuss every nuance of daily life with Drac. I do not need to or want to meet his domestic needs or any other needs. He is not entitled to that any longer.
Yet, here I am still holding out some hope - spending time wondering about his reaction to my communications. Wondering if somehow it could work out,,,,,, and what I should/should not do to facilitate that??
This is a bit different than in the past. I am not sitting here with butterflies jumping in my stomach. I am not AGONIZING over this. Yes, I want to 'get it right' in the terms of what may help and not hurt any potential but I feel much more solid and confident in myself that if it doesn't lead to anything, my world is not completely shattered.
My World is just that - MY World. In which I am just fine. I have very happy and content days and weeks. Do I think those days & weeks would be Enhanced by a New relationship with the man I love - Absolutely.
Does ANY of this make ANY sense??
I OWN this as MY BELIEF, Bugsy...
DIVORCE is MANMADE...according to MAN'S GUIDELINES...
MARRIAGE is ORDAINED by GOD..what GOD has put together....
So your decision is whether YOU want to reconcile with YOUR HUSBAND....
If you do, the HARLEYS would recommend continuation of PLAN B (I think)..'cause they give a TIME FRAME of TWO YEARS in PLAN B before recommending moving on...
That's why they want to try to put off DIVORCE...
MAN'S LAWS make getting a DIVORCE too swift and easy, IMO...
LG,
Funny, when I read his email this morning my immediate thought was "The question has been asked and answered - So what is up with this?"
Thus my continued musings about Drac.
I do very much like your thoughts on setting him straight on sending the checks in the mail "Per his request". That is a definite. The same for the other payment.
Mimi & Lexxxy,
I am going to consider going back to intermediary. It has been better without the intermediary, in that it is less cumbersome to just answer directly. It has also been my 'impression' that Drac thought of the use of the intermediary (and really all of Plan B) as being due to 2 things only.
First, that it was all because I was "angry, hurt & bitter"
Second, that it was to "control him, force him to end his A with the HO, and to have a say about his personal life". During his justification of the D, he brought up time & again that he felt I treated him like a child and that he always felt like he had to ask for "permission" to do things. FUNNY, though,,,, isn't that just what this email over DD's gift seems like??
IMHO - By going back to the intermediary now would likely fuel those misconceptions on his part. I don't think he ever understood what my actions, and the changes I have made are about. He's continued to apply the typical WS interpretation of everything, and never grasped that reconciliation, a NEW marriage, a BETTER marriage could be possible for US.
He stands in the firm arena of the typical IRL folks who think that I should "get over it and be friendly parents together". Which, we all know, is not what I want.
Mimi - I agree with the 2 year time frame. I also agree fact that marriage is ordained by God. Oh my goodness, YES, man's law's make it is waayy too easy to end a marriage.
Spiritually, mentally and emotionally, I am still married to my husband. I don't know when that may change. 2 years seems like a very short time in which to think that will change for ME.
Thanks for the input,,,,,, My thought process has now expanded! I don't know yet what reply I am going to send today,,, if any.
Bugsy:
This is gonna sound harsh..but it's said out of love and caring..
It has been better without the intermediary, in that it is less cumbersome to just answer directly.
Speaking for myself, I don't come here to help you with making your life easier. I mainly come here to help with the MB System and Plans and to foster my continued use of this approach. It's a matter of what you want to do about your relationship with Drac. If your goal is to continue towards Marital Recovery despite your Divorce, then I recommend PLAN B. PLAN B will also help with your own PERSONAL RECOVERY. Otherwise, go ahead and coparent with him and remain divorced. You see what I mean? I encourage you to come up with A PLAN in order to maintain the sense of PERSONAL POWER that you have developed.
It has also been my 'impression' that Drac thought of the use of the intermediary (and really all of Plan B) as being due to 2 things only.
Who CARES what he thinks? Do you BELIEVE in the value of the PLAN? I'm hearing that you don't. That's what matters, WHAT YOU BELIEVE...There is no way for you to actually know HIS IMPRESSION and a WAYWARD hardly THINKS at all...
I don't think he ever understood what my actions, and the changes I have made are about. He's continued to apply the typical WS interpretation of everything, and never grasped that reconciliation, a NEW marriage, a BETTER marriage could be possible for US.
Of course! He's a WS or XH or whatever..he's actively involved in his affair and he SELFISHLY wants his cake and eat it, too..he's selfish..only out to get HIS OWN NEEDS MET NOW...he's not ruled by any THOUGHT PROCESS...
You need to GO DARK, STAY AWAY FROM HIM or you will be EMOTIONALLY DAMAGED by this some way..sucked into his EVILNESS and/or GROW TO HATE HIM....
This is NOT a typical and now we are AMICABLY DIVORCED type of situation...
This is a DIVORCE that resulted from an AFFAIR...
and don't you FORGET IT....
Ah, Mimi,,,,,,
I expected no less than what I got from you - Thank you!
Even as I typed the words,,,I KNEW in my heart that you would say this -
Speaking for myself, I don't come here to help you with making your life easier
As for this,
Do you BELIEVE in the value of the PLAN? I'm hearing that you don't. That's what matters, WHAT YOU BELIEVE...
I will be totally honest, I don't know. I may get a 2 x 4 here, but I am being honest -I went into Plan B in July and am now sitting here a single, divorced Mom. It sure doesn't feel like it's worked and I question where continued Plan B will get me in regards to recovery with Drac.
It HAS gotten me those next steps in personal recovery, for which I am oh so grateful. The sense of personal power I have today vs prior is amazing.
Yes, I DO want to recover with Drac to a new and better marriage.
Yes, I realize it takes believing in and working the plans the way they are designed by the Harleys - unless specifically coached by them to the contrary. I know it has worked for tons of other people.
"Knowing" isn't enough,,, it's the believing that makes things happen.
So,,,,in going back to being more dark - using my intermediary - there will have to be some communication with Drac to advise him.
I am going to have to think about what I need to say and how to say it,,,,,, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
You have your ORIGINAL plan B Letter.
Rewrite it and redeliver it. Maybe at a lunch you arrange. Smile sweetly and be pleasant. Let him read it while you are there. And let him ask questions.
You explained in the first letter what it would take to have Drac come back. The same reasons still apply. Now the fact of the divorce needs to be added, and the next steps home might be slightly different, but not by much.
You got divorced anyway. Drac's choice. And your personnally in a better spot than if you hadn't found MB.
That's why I was saying that plan Bugs needed tightening.
It went from understanding that some communication was required, and that if Drac 'caught' sight of you, ok. But it has devolved into something more.
More "Co-parenting" than plan B. Not all the way, but heading there.
And that works for Drac. And, on many levels, for Bugs.
Will it restore you to a marriage with Drac? Maybe. Maybe not. More likely NOT.
So what DOES BUGS DO?
[email]D@mn[/email] these crossroads.
Plan B and darkness? An MB plan, through and through. Good chance of success.
Plan A and try to win him back that way? Another MB plan. Ask princessmeggy, that's what happened in her case, after her WH left all his affair partners. Another good chance of success, but could you stand to have to submit to that? Real tough that one.
Plan ??? Sort of in the middle? As they say in politics, if you are in the middle of the road, you get squashed.
[email]D@mn[/email] these crossroads.
So Bugs? Plan B seems to lead to the BEST chance.
You did an excellent Plan A. And then as the Plan D rolled around, and you were OUT of Drac's life, because of Plan B, the affair lost its third leg and toppled. As far as we know.
That's why I keep suggesting that the proper "bait" from you just might hook him good.
I would recommend that the "Hook" be delivered with the plan B letter. He jumps on. Or You jump off.
And then you go forward.....
[email]D@mn[/email] these crossroads.
((((Bugsy))))
LG
Lg,
[email]D@mn[/email] is right!!!
I'll get back to you when I can think of something better to say! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Does ANY of this make ANY sense??
Yes. It does.
So, my take is that the biggest function of Plan B is to protect you. I hear you saying the right things--you have come so far it's amazing. You're not hanging on his every word any more, and that's great.
When I listen between the lines, though, you still want him to come back and are still watching for signs. Watching for signs is fine, but you will be able to do it longer and better if you're in Plan B.
If your intermediary is amenable and it's not too cumbersome, you can go back into Plan B.
"You know, I thought I would be okay with more communication, but I was wrong. I find that it is still too painful for me to interact with you when I know that, even now, things could be so different between the two of us and for our family. And so I'm asking you . . . ."
....too....tired....to...comment...
but...
I hear ya on a lot of the "what now?" stuff.
Let me ask:
If he were to walk in the door right now, would you want him back...enough to go through the pain of recovery? Sounds like you have something left in the love bank, but what about in the respect bank?
Just askin'
zzzzzzzzz.......
Sis, you don't have to think about that question right now. It will just make you tired--you deserve a long rest. Go to sleep. One foot in front of the other.
Carry on, Bugs.
Hey everyone!
Sis, hoping you are catching some well deserved ZZZs!
I think all of the 'bank' accounts are still open enough for H to make deposits. The balances are very low and may run into the red in the not too distant future,,,,which of course, puts more emphasis on the good things about Plan B.
LG - sometimes I feel like I'm NOT 'smarter than a 5th grader" when it comes to all of this and then you come along and draw out an explaination One more time for me that along with all of the other great advice, finally clicks in some way for me.
I will ask though, for more clarification on what you mean by this,,
That's why I keep suggesting that the proper "bait" from you just might hook him good.
I would recommend that the "Hook" be delivered with the plan B letter. He jumps on. Or You jump off.
????
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Think 5th Grader in your explaination!
Don't go there with the BAIT stuff...
THE ANSWER, IMO, is PLAN B...
A major purpose of PLAN B is for him TO SUFFER...to long for you..for you NOT TO MEET ANY OF HIS ENs....
Mortarman..the PLAN B GENIUS here..tried to hammer that into me and he was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT...
So, I agree..the PLAN B LETTER and then into DARKNESS...REAL DARKNESS...
He is getting all kinds of NEEDS met..just by SEEING YOU...
You need to DISAPPEAR from HIM...
He needs to LONG FOR YOUR SIGHT..for your PRESENCE...
Do you get this?
He needs to experience the PAIN of WITHDRAWAL from you...
Oh, YES..he RESPECTS you...not a problem there..
Oh, YES...he STILL HAS LOVE FOR YOU...and YOU HAVE LOVE FOR HIM...
WHAT A TRAGEDY..this DIVORCE STUFF from AFFAIRS...
The man that bought that piece of crap out to the car wants YOU..but on HIS TERMS...
You've got to take the UPPER HAND NOW...
"YOU GET NONE OF ME, NOT ONE OUNCE OF ME..UNLESS YOU COMMIT YOURSELF ONLY TO ME..otherwise I keep MOVING ON..."
Oops,,, I posted before I was finished.
Although I need some clarification as outlined above, I have worked on a first blush, VERY rough draft start on a new letter. There are some specific parts I'm not crazy about, but left them in for some feedback , , ,
"
I have made so many great changes in my life. My outlook is so different. I see so much in so many different ways and have changed & grown a lot. I no longer wish to engage or interact in the same old ways that I used to with people. My focus is on the good of life; on the infinite possibilities. In the joy and promise every day brings to life.
Due in great part to the changes I have made, I have relationships now that are different than in the past. This is true for both old relationships I’ve had for years, as well as the many new ones I have been blessed to find.
Based on those changes, I truly thought that with the divorce final, the opening up of communication with you would be beneficial, but it is not.
Honestly, the fact is, because of my changes and the things I have learned, I have come to recognize the errors of the past, and have made changes to prevent them from being repeated in my future. What I once thought of as being a good relationship, or even a good marriage, no longer holds a candle to what I know I can have.
I finally recognize the foundation for the most wonderful and infinite happiness that our marriage held for us both, and under the right circumstances, could still hold for us. This summer I told you that I had found a way that could bring us both to the best relationship of our lives. I didn't tell you that to try to control you or manipulate you or just get my way.
It was because I finally saw the foundation we had, I remembered every little thing about you that made me fall in love with you in the first place, I saw how my lack of communication and disrespectful judgements changed things, I figured out that the amazing things we had came from doing what was natural at the beginning of our relationship - simply meeting each others needs. I still believe in all of that. It is something we could choose to have. It would be a journey,,,a process, and one that can only be initiated by you. I’ve learned that is yours to choose or not to choose, and I do not wish to concern myself with your choices in that regard any more.
So, our paths now are separate. In order for me to continue with my own positive choices and to keep walking down my path so to speak, to truly explore the outstanding possibilities I have before me, I need to remain disengaged from any unnecessary interaction or communication with you. It brings no good to my life, so it makes no sense to keep it a part of my life.
You know our children mean more to me than life itself. Based on things you have said, it seems that you think we should be friends and have numerous, perhaps even daily detailed discussions regarding them. I can not do that. Very little interaction is necessary between us, even for the sake of the kids. That isn’t what it seems you envisioned, but it is what it is by the very nature of divorce."
I intend to add the necessary info about how communication should be done moving forward,,,
I think all of the 'bank' accounts are still open enough for H to make deposits. The balances are very low and may run into the red in the not too distant future,,,,which of course, puts more emphasis on the good things about Plan B.
Thanks for making that sufficiently 5th grader-ish for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I want to make sure I know where you "are," because I'm reading through my own lens. Know what I mean?
For all of your sakes, I'm glad to hear that you have balances, and that you are so clear on it. No wishy-washy-ness. You are still in this. You go!
Looks like it's back to Plan B for Bugs.. and not a moment too soon. Was hard to watch you agonize over every little thing Drac did or said.
It's ok Bugs, we all slip a little sometimes, but you want the best chance for a successful outcome. I think the letter is very well written and well timed. You've given him a little taste.. now you've laid it on the line.
I'm not sure I'm ready for an intermediary, and I've still got some plan A'ing to do at least through the holidays. I'm seeing cracks in the foundation and want to give things my best shot.. I didn't execute much of a plan A to begin with so I'm about 3 months behind but better late than never. Sounds like you did a good Plan A.. and Plan B was working.. time to get back to what works for Bugs, unfortunately that wasn't Plan Bugs.
Just another way to show everyone that a Divorce Decree doesn't end the stand.. it just changes the legal rules.
(((((Bugs)))))
Do something wonderful for yourself today.
Bugs:
As Always, Mimi is ON IT.
Glad she's back.
But by "bait" I meant the simple delivery of the actual Plan B Letter.
No stuffing it in DSS or DD backpack: "Make sure this gets to Drac"
No handing it to him at the kid transfer: "Here's something for you"
No dropping in in the mail.
No sending an email.
Bugs making an appointment with Drac. At lunch, or maybe late afternoon. At a neutral Site, or one with ALOT of positive memories.
Bugs. One on One with Drac. Goddess like, and during the drinks stage, delivering the letter.
1. Drac can stand and walk out.
2. Drac can read and ask questions, that the Goddess will freely answer.
3. Drac can respond negativly, and become venomous. Then the Goddess can leave.
Which ever WAY it goes? Goddess stands up in the end, stares Drac in the eye, and says: "There IS a way back. Theres your road map. But YOU have to take the first steps." And then Disappers into the darkness.
True Darkness.
And that's the ONLY "Bait" I would leave.
Why? Because I believe that in this case, Drac feels that ONCE AGAIN, Bugs has it all figured out. He minimizes his choices in all this, and then believes that Bugs has moved on and left Drac.
Remember that Bugs was always: "Large and IN Charge"
She was in Plan B, and after the ink was dry, started becoming a co-parent.
Which suited Drac just fine. Beats up Bugs, but suits Drac Fine.
And relieves Drac of HIS responsibilities in all this.
Simply redelivering the Plan B letter, allows Drac to determine that once again, Bugs is controlling the world.
So instead of just delivering the Plan B Letter, Meet with him and answer any questions he might have.
Let him know that SH laid it all out in the past, "can you see a future with the woman you love and happiness" Drac answered YES to that.
That's my opinion. For this specific case.
For example, Would I recommend it for LilSis? After the ink is dry for her? No. Because her Husband is in a different place. One I do not understand. I feel I understand Drac's position better. FWIW.
But that is what I propose. Not having Bugs dangling on the line all the time for Drac to take bites at. Just set it up, lay it out, and then go dark. Secure in the knowledge that she KNOWS that Drac understands where she came from. And if he never comes to terms? Then so be it.
She protects herself, and KNOWS that she responded in a way that meets HER need to give it ALL she can. And then, Back to where she belongs. IN darkness, until Drac decides to enter the light.
So, for all you 5th graders: Whats the capital of New Hampshire?
LG
BEAUTIFUL, LG!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Wow, LG! You ROCK!
Bugsy, it sounds like you are ready to step away from the wayward, and that is good! Peace for the holidays.
I completely agree with Mimi on this...
A major purpose of PLAN B is for him TO SUFFER...to long for you..for you NOT TO MEET ANY OF HIS ENs....
This goes for those separated and divorced in my book!
Bugs;
I'm so happy to see all these great people jump in her to develop a PLAN for you.
It was really hard for me to watch you dissolve your Plan B, and then agonize over how to conduct each interaction.
Drac is apparently HO-free. I like LG's plan to remind him that you are still available to him -- if he makes the right choices.
I want to see PEACE for you. You have lived in this turmoil for so long. You have fought the good fight.
The last place you want to be is sucked into "friend of Drac"....
IMO, he still wants what he wants. There are certain EN's he would like you to fill. But he's not open to letting you fill ALL of them. He still wants to manipulate you into that "friend" place. Then do things like invite you to DD's party and show all those critical family members that he isn't so bad. Have you TALK to him like you used to...be his domestic support so his failings with DSS aren't so obvious.
You know him better than anyone. Do you think he's sorry for what he did? If there is an absence of remorse, I don't know how you get to recovery.
And if he is unable to feel remorse over what he did...you would never want him back. Lilsis got to face WH with tears in his eyes admitting what he did was wrong. Do you see that happening with Drac? Or is he still trying to convince everyone that it was OK?
I just think he has some more falling to do to reach the bottom.
I just think he has some more falling to do to reach the bottom.
As Lexx says here...
And there you have it, Bugsy....
YOU HAVE GOT TO GET THIS!!!
This is THE GOAL..the ONLY WAY to RECOVERY...IMO....
He has to be SCRAPING THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL...
My H said that he felt like he was LIVING IN HE// or certainly AT THE GATES...
LG nailed it. Great stuff.
I agree that for your plan B, depriving Drac of Bugs and the ENs you meet for him has an effect, and you should take advantage of this by going dark again. Not every WS responds to the deprivation thing, but I think yours does.
Thanks LG & EVERYONE!
I had 'management' company in town at work yesterday, so I haven't really had a chance to Process or respond to the GREAT posts.
I can't thank you all enough, though, as what I have read has made sense to that 5th grade mentality!!
Drac has DD tonight, so I'll catch up with you all then.
Well, Class!
I certainly ENJOY all the nice words!
BUT WILL SOMEONE LET ME KNOW WHAT THE CAPITAL OF NEW HAMPSHIRE IS!
Sheeesh.
Ask a simple question! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
LG <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Concord....do I get a prize?
I have finally had a bit of time to re-read all of the great posts from Tuesday. Again, I can not thank you all enough – lots of good, good stuff!
All of the reminders I really needed from everyone from the peace of Plan B, to the need for Drac to hit bottom, to him needing to be TRULY remorseful, to pointing out that he apparently still needs me to meet certain ENs, to the fact that he really is trying oh so hard to work me into the ‘friend’ to meet his needs - - - it’s all still about him.
I like the idea of a lunch meeting with Drac and the way you laid it all out for me, LG.
I do not think the time is right,,,, yet. It will be soon, but it just doesn’t seem right. Don’t ask me why,,, I can’t really give a solid reason. I’ll share some of my thoughts on this later, when I get them a little more clear for myself.
Mimi - don't get me wrong, I am not denying Plan B is right. I'm not trying to continue to allow him to see/use me or to meet his needs.
I want to take some more time to process through all of the great posts/information here. I am extremely exhausted from work and the next 2 days aren’t going to be any easier. I am going to take the weekend, and perhaps even longer before taking any action in that direction. In the meantime, I’ve pulled the curtain, so to speak. Either no response to his TM, or minimal responses at best.
Tomorrow is DD’s actual birthday. I bought her special donuts and chocolate milk for breakfast and am taking off early so we can spend more time together & go out for a nice dinner together. I know we are BOTH looking forward to it.
Am going to enjoy some quiet time before DD comes home from her evening with Drac.
Thanks again everyone!
PS
Lexxxy – you get the Star Pupil award today! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Here's a pat on the back to you for doing so great! You sound so wonderful...it's funny I have a little issue and I have thought about having lunch with POWS...but I have to process and get some feedback...
Here's looking at you kiddo! Hope works easier than you expect it to be! A little relaxation is in order for BUGS! I feel the same way for myself right now...seem like I can't get enough rest TBH!
Hey Rin!
Thanks for the pat on the back,,,but I am in need of more help! Not only is work nuts, but I don't see the relaxation I need on the horizon. Yikes!
Today was DD's bday. Woke her up holding a chocolate donut with a 7 candle lit on it with chocolate milk. Now THAT is my kind of start to a birthday! She had a great day at school - they had a field trip to see a play today. I picked her up right after school & took her to the restaurant of her choice. Came home & watched Shrek 3 that her dad bought her last night, worked on her "learn to dance" High School Musical dvd, went to dance, McDonalds & she is finally out for the night.
While at dance, Drac called. I did not answer. He left vm that I didn't listen to. I asked DD during break if she wanted to listen to it then or after class. She said after. I gave her the phone w/the vm on it - - the message wasn't for her, it was for ME.
Drac said there was a problem at school w/DSS - he 'really' needed to talk to me about. I listened to the message & it was obvious he was extremely upset. From the sound of the message, it sounded like something REALLY REALLY bad had happened.
I was envisioning DSS being beat up,,,,being kicked out,,,all kinds of horrible things!
DD called & talked to him. I debated & debated, and unfortunately gave in to the manipulation of the VM and spoke w/Drac.
Seems DSS is failing Social Studies due to missing assignements.
Anyone here surprised? I know *I* wasn't, either.
He went on about the details of it, how he tried to talk to DSS & wasn't getting any answers. He asked if I had talked to DSS about his backpack, homework, his locker, etc. I said we had talked about it that DSS told me the same things.
Apparently the 'questioning' of DSS went very poorly. A few years ago in a similiar situation, DSS got himself sooo worked up, he started sweating, went totally white & passed out. This came close to happening again tonight & it totally freaked Drac out.
He went on, while I just listened. Finally he says, "I just don't know what to do".
Oh,,, the things that went thru my mind at that moment! Instead of letting them out, though, I simply remained silent. He finally said "Well, I guess I should contact the school? Talk to the counselor?"
Well DUH!! Your son just got himself worked up enough to almost pass out?? HE77 YES he needs some professional help you dumb a$$!
I replied, "Yes, that needs to be done as a start".
I just sat there & let him finally manipulate me into saying what needs to be done for DSS - - I pointed out that although he "seems" to be at the age where he needs to be more self reliant, 13 year olds still need their parents to keep up with them EVERY DAY, and DSS is different. I DID point out - Look at EVERYTHING he's been through this year,,, that *I* am not there to do these things with him & for him so not only does Drac NEED to do them,,,,DSS may be acting out because I am not there to do them & Drac is NOT doing them.
I kept it fairly short,,, as I could have really gone on & on. Drac said "Thanks for taking the call".
My reply, "He is MY SON. There's nothing I wouldn't do for him."
Silence from Drac.
I said "I gotta go".
Guys, I KNOW he is manipulating me into the co-parenting thing. I KNOW i have to put a stop to it,,,,but this is my SON?!?
Please help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
You will have to set your boundaries or this will continue FOREVER...
I have sons whom I've raised into adolescence..
FAILING ONE SUBJECT IS NOT A MAJOR CATASTROPHE....
It's your call, Bugs.
It's gonna be a matter of whether you want to continue to coparent or work on RECOVERY.
IMO, in the long run, RECOVERY would be more in your son's best interest than the use of him by his father to get to you.
Perfect time to write that letter..Arrange that LUNCH...
Do what YOU can for your SON..when he is with you..and YOU can certainly communicate directly with his teacher...
No need to HELP Drac..
It's all about HIM and HIS SELFISH NEED for you to meet HIS NEEDS..not caring about you..disrespecting you. divorcing you to be with another woman and then USING you, yes, USING you when it's CONVENIENT..in the guise of HELPING his son..I see that as being a NARCISSISTIC PARENT..and it SICKENS ME..YUCK..and it will begin to SICKEN you ..and the LOVEBANK will begin to dwindle down even further...THEN, will you be able to HELP your son????
REMEMBER..you only have CONTROL over YOURSELF...
Ok Bugs.. it's time for the, let's look at the sitch and examine how it -could- be worse, and just how lucky you are that you have an opportunity to make it better.
In your situation you actually have the opportunity to continue on a relationship with YOUR SON. Yeah, he's failing Social Studies.. and it's because he's not doing the work. Now is a -wonderful- opportunity for you to engage him in a loving and supporting way, and help teach him a valuable lesson that you yourself have learned in the last year.
It's never too late to get -your- life back on track.. but YOU have to do the work.
No matter what your circumstances, and we both know that he is acting out as a result of everything in his life being thrown into upheval. Adolescents are particularly vulnerable to the emotional setbacks of this kind of thing.
He knows that -you- are the one that was betrayed.. he also knows that -he- has been betrayed as well.. you have the opportunity to show him how to be strong and carry on through this.
Me? Heh.. I don't much get to see or talk to MY DAUGHTER.. and yep, we've had the same problems with her in the past and I worked -very- hard to resolve them with her then.. and it was because she was acting out over the loss of her biological father. I knew that, but I -forced- her to take responsibility for herself.. and you know what? She's a pretty good student these days.
NOW.. she's struggling with her Spelling grade.. the one grade that she probably required the most work with last year when they were still with me. You know why she didn't fail spelling last year? Because I worked with her -every- night.. WW doesn't.. I know she doesn't. But when I talked to her on the phone for only the 2nd time in 3 months.. you know what she said to me? 'I got an A+ on my spelling test!'.. I beamed with joy.. she's doing good.
Things -can- turn around, and you can't approach this crisis from a standpoint of 'how will Drac respond to this.. is this part of my plan'... Sorry.. you can't do that, this is about DSS, and he's more important than luring your WXH back or making him suffer. Keep your focus on the kids, yes.. wall yourself back up when it comes to WXH.. but be more open than ever to DSS.. and be -his- safe place.
I'm sure Drac isn't responding well to this because he doesn't know -how- to react.. he's still wayward.. he doesn't have the capacity to set himself aside and focus himself on the needs of his kid.
Morning all!
Well, after the exhausting week I had, last night I came home and was asleep at 8:30, which explains why I was up again today before 5! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mimi, you are right in all of your posts.
DSS's progress report was in no way an "Emergency". No one was bleeding or about to die.
The only "emergency" was the one created BY Drac ABOUT DRAC. HE didn't know what to do when finally smacked in the face with a dose of reality. HE felt overwhelmed or whatever at the moment and wanted/needed help for HIMSELF at that moment.
I wrote out in my journal what I'd like to have said to him - That I wonder if it even crossed his mind for one second how *I* might feel about his coming to me for help.
A year ago, he told me that one of the reasons he was leaving was that I "wasn't good for DSS".
Less than a month ago, he had his lawyer remind me that "I have no legal rights to DSS".
And now, when this happens who does Drac come running to for advice about DSS?
It's not my job to train/support/educate Drac on being a good parent. It's time for him to do those things on his own, as that has been his choice.
I will absolutely do everything I can for DSS on my own as well - Just as I have all along. I called and talked to DSS yesterday. He was off school all day.
We talked about what happened and had a good talk. I am going to call the school counselor on Monday to follow up. DSS needs some professional help. His almost passing out is very much a concern for me. DSS told me he felt "scared" because he didn't want Drac to be mad.
DSS believes all is going to be fine - he will be in mandatory tutoring and Drac is going to be checking his homework planner & backpack every night. Hmmm, should I be 'happy' that Drac is doing what I suggested??
When the almost passing out happened, Drac ended up sending DSS to his room. Drac then came in a bit later and asked DSS if he was on drugs!
Yet another sign of Drac looking for something,, anything,, that would help him NOT look at himself as being responsible in any way for what is going on. OR is that a DJ on my part???
So, in this regard, my focus is DSS. Period.
Drac sent me an email yesterday. A funny political email joke. I don't think he has anyone in his life with which to discuss issues & politics the way we used to. Sorry - NOT gonna happen with Bugs, either!
So, am laying low for the weekend. Shopping today with Mom & Sis. Housework later today, and some major work stuff on Sunday.
I intend to wait through Thanksgiving before possibly doing the letter meeting with Drac. In the meantime, the curtain is closed and the sign is up "No Drac Allowed".
Good. Please give an MB hug to DSS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> My son just turned 13 and while he thought that would be a magical # (full fledge teenager status... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> or so he thought <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ), he has realized he still has a lot of growing up to do.
It is a hard enough time for them as it is with their own bodies undergoing a whole new phase of their lives.., let alone having to deal with a WS/Xws. It angered me that my then WS stole that part of our son's childhood away from him by having an A. It still does. ;(
Yet, it is his responsibility to rectify it with his son and so I support you in your stances NOT to fix it for Drac. Drac needs to fix Drac. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
take care,
L.
Bugsy, you amaze me woman! Such a difficult sitch and you are handling it with class.
Thanks for dropping in on my meltdown and lending support. I got a couple of swift kicks in the pantaloons and they helped immensely.
I am happy that I did rebound and own my behavior. Dare I say that I am proud of how I conducted myself POST MELTDOWN.
As an aside, I think going back to Plan B is a solid PLAN. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
O,
I didn't know your DS was the same age?! Yes, what a tough time it can be for them,,,,hormones starting to rage, bodies changing, life challenges by the dozens that are new and difficult,,,,, and then to have the ONE man who is to set the example for them on how to be a good man is an active WS? Well, I don't have to say more to you, do I?
Thanks for the support - I really am in need of it. I spent today with Mom & Sis. I think Mom understands more than anyone else IRL,,,, Dad has cheated on her a couple of times. Sis, OTOH, is a challenge for me sometimes.
Her take on it was "how great it is that when Drac didn't know what to do, he came to you because YOU know what to do! The ONLY thing that matters is that you told him so that DSS get what he needs".
While I don't 'totally' disagree with that - it IS important for DSS to get what he needs,,,, Sis fails to think about this in the long term. I guess she expects me to continue to coach, support & train Drac into being the parent DSS needs? To heck completely with me, my feelings, the long term relationship with Drac??
I am struggling with that IRL mentality. I want only the best that I can do for DSS.
But, I don't think giving in to Drac's manipulations is the BEST for any of us? Is it right that I give of myself to Drac based on the fact that it is for the benefit of DSS?
Bugs:
He CALLED you because he has NO ONE else.
"Drac said there was a problem at school w/DSS - he 'really' needed to talk to me about. I listened to the message & it was obvious he was extremely upset. From the sound of the message, it sounded like something REALLY REALLY bad had happened.
He went on, while I just listened. Finally he says, "I just don't know what to do"."
No matter what. Your all he has left.
And since you are making yourself available, Drac calls.
So.
Perfect time to write that letter..Arrange that LUNCH... "Drac, I know WHAT to do" "About DSS, DD, and our M." "YOU know this TOO"
Sorry. You need to sail off into Darkness, or YOU NEED TO PLAN A HIM.
Do the Princessmeggy thing. YOU were ALWAYS the better choice. And AFTER your PLAN A, you SHOWED him hom much better you can be.
Besides, your just going to get squashed in the middle of the road. Emotionally.
DRAC is being broken. Slowly, Slowly. He could have left that VM, and then when you called back later, responded in a DRAC manner. But he didn't. He responded as your ex-husband. who's regretting that decision.
JMVHO
LG
mimi - thx,,, just replied, but not sure it went through,,,, see below for an update. will ck with you offline
LG,
Oh baby,,,,,here is Bugs, having drawn back the curtain and then things happen and I blow it a bit,,,,
Here's the story -
DD is with Drac this weekend. I get a call from Drac's Aunt tonight. DD is staying at Drac's Mom's house tonight. Drac's Mom calls the Aunt asking for MY phone number because she doesn't have it and DD is wanting to talk to me.
I was VERY MAD! Why the heck is she calling the AUNT for my number? Why not call Drac?
Supposedly Drac and DSS are at a concert tonight. WHAT? a child that is FAILING in school gets to go to a concert??
Anyway, the Aunt would not give Mom my number?! LOL! So she game me Mom's # (which I had already).
I waited til I calmed down and then called MomDrac. She answered and was pleasant,,,but tried to pass me off right away to DD. I asked her to wait = = then I inquired as to WHY she called the Aunt for my number,,,, why didn't she call DRAC for it? She said she DID call Drac, but could not reach him. Again, I heard that Drac and DSS were at a concert.
So, I talked to DD and she was kind of bored, but OK.
I then let my emotions rule and sent Drac a TM.
"It is not OK for whoever is caring for DD to not be able to reach you and to not have my number. Do not let it happen again - EVER"
Drac CALLED me. I did not answer. He left a vm. He said that DD is at his mom's, which he "IS ALLOWED to do" and that he didn't understand what the issue was, DD had stayed there before and that she would call me, and "Do NOT send me 'threatening' TMs,, if there is an issue, talk to your LAWYER".
WHAT?? Talk to my LAWYER?? this from the desperate, upset person who called me less than 48 hours ago because he didn't know what to do about DSS?????
Well, I figured I'd find out the truth about tonight, so I called FIL. Seems he was just getting ready to go pick up DSS for the night. Hmmmmmm,,,, I don't know of any concerts that are over by 8pm. Even if it WAS over by then, Drac lives atleast an hour away from anywhere a concert would be held.
While I was on the phone with FIL, Drac leaves another VM.
Seems I am guilty of "manipulating his mom" and that he is taking DSS to something that DSS REALLY wanted to go to tonight and that DD is going where she ASKED to go for tonight. (DD has NEVER asked to go to his Mom's,,, she barely knows her because DRAC barely likes her).
He went on to say that he really wants to talk to me, it's not about HIM, it's not about ME, it's about THE KIDS. He doesn't want to keep fighting with me,,we don't need to be friend, but can't we need to just get along. If I want to talk to him, call him back.
WTF???
Wonder if he knows yet that *I* know that tonight isn't about DSS in any way shape or form?
What is it EXACTLY that is bothering Drac? Is it that despite his best efforts to front as the 'great dad', the selfish, self centered person is being revealed???
Bugs, if I were you, I would tell DD that if something like that ever happens again, that she can call you directly. If she was MADE to go to GrandmaDRACs that's just wrong. I wonder if her feelings were hurt that DRAC took DSS somewhere and just left her behind. Do you have anything like a "first right of refusal" clause in your decree?
So DRAC not only dumped DD at inlaws but he was getting ready to dump DSS too? Grrrr.
Yep. I think you're on to something. DRAC's "Father-of-the-year" disguise is slipping.
Of course he wants to talk... he wants to splain his selfishness. Since you know DD and DSS are safe, I wouldn't respond. He knows he's wrong.
I still say he's got his claws in you Bugs and he knows it.
Some guys just have to keep reminding themselves that they have control.
You pull back again and I'll bet he starts chasing.
PM,
Oh yes, we have right of first refusal. In fact, Drac was the FIRST to bring that up already.
I knew that DD was going to be at Drac's mom's tonight. DD told me this week that was the plan. I 'assumed' it was because DracMom didn't want to drive to the bday party tomorrow. WRONG - - DracMom is taking DD TO the party tomorrow. That is what made me suspicious of the entire evening.
I understand that either one of us have family members who want to spend time with DD. I had no issue with that,,, even though "legally" I could make an issue of it.
What bothered me was that obviously DracMom couldn't or didn't know how to reach either one of of us. THAT is NOT acceptable.
Yes, I have thought about DD's feelings, IF the case was that she was being left behind. I had one answer to that - he is DRAC. Something, unfortunately, I can't fix.
As you say,, he thinks he can splain it,,,,,,,, Well, I don't believe he thinks that right now. I have a VERY strong feeling he knows he is totally BUSTED on every front.
BM, I am not super familiar with your situation...for that I am sorry. What I do see is a reason to be completely dark in a plan B. Don't get involved in anything that will bring disharmony to your life.
Isn't he your EX husband at this point? If so, why is he even being given the slightest access to your life? If he has the children with him...and this is just my opinion...if the kids are not in any danger and being well cared for, there is no reason for you to be involved in any of this. Unless the courts have given you a say in how your daughter spends her time when she is with him, I suggest that you learn to accept that this stuff is out of your control.
Lots of interaction, Bugsy. It doesn't seem to be sending you off the deep end, but it will deplete the precious reserves in your LB the more you have to speculate and wonder and rage and react.
I know it's tough with the kids to draw and maintain the lines, but the more you're able to do it, the easier things will be.
HI Bugs, I see that you have been having the same problem I've been having...I ran into POWS tonight when I went to vote...
It's hard trying to be dark...Drac just wanted to have his cover story with you....wanting to "appear" innocent...the game is still their for POWS...seems like it for Drac...
I would definitely go back to being dark to protect yourself...
I agree, Bugs. Go dark. This is emotionally draining...drama that you do not need in your life.
I've wondered as well: how does one enforce the right of first refusal? You can't (nor should you) rely on the kids to let you know when it's been broken, so you are essentially left with counting on the WS to do the right thing. HA!
Maybe inform the ILs that this is the legal agreement and you would hope and expect that they honor it. That's about all you can do...
Anyway...GO DARK, woman. Don't get sucked in. I would take his weepy phone call (Dr. Jekyll) turned to creepy WS (Mr. Hyde) as a CLEAR sign that darkness is the way to go. He got something he needed, and when it no longer suited his purpose, he reverted to form.
As others have said...he's maintaining control...he's playing a game. Remove yourself from that ugly dance.
Morning guys!
Thanks for all of the posts and support. I know the simple answer to the subject line above is just don't interact. Period.
Sis,
You are right on here -
I would take his weepy phone call (Dr. Jekyll) turned to creepy WS (Mr. Hyde) as a CLEAR sign that darkness is the way to go. He got something he needed, and when it no longer suited his purpose, he reverted to form.
Regarding the Right of First Refusal,,,it had never really occured to me to try to enforce this unless Drac gets in the habit of DD spending a great many of HIS days without him & with someone else. As a matter of fact, this is something HE brought up to me a while back when I was going to let DD spend time with HIS Aunt. But, that whole episode, just like now, just like every moment for the last year is about his WS entitlement. Nothing more. Nothing Less.
I wasn't upset that DD was spending the night with DracMom. What got me was that my daughter was in the care of someone who did not know how to get in touch with me, and for whatever reason, could not reach Drac. If there is an emergency of any sort, whoever that is MUST be able to reach one of us. DracMom isn't in the best of health herself. What if something happened with her while DD was there? THAT was my concern. Unfortunately, I let it spin into something else - - a back & forth with Drac. Not Good.
My friend G came by and watched tv with me last night. It was nice just to kick back with someone and not let the events w/Drac control my entire evening.
I am going to finish my coffee, clean DD's room, clean the fish tank & the hamster cages, spend some time outside with Beau, do some 'work work', and then relax this afternoon til DD comes home.
I don't know why I feel like I just had an ephipany, but I do.
I have somewhat 'avoided' reading many Plan A threads since going to Plan B,,,it was just too hard for me for a while. The last few days, though, I have been reading a few.
How could I have let myself forget the most important part of Plan A? Taking care of ME - working on ME - working FOR ME? I know that I did forget to keep this focus the way that I should.
No More.
So, I am going to consciously work to Plan A myself! Time to re-energize that Personal Power. The holidays are coming up. I LOVE the holidays!
As Rin said, time to make some New Memories!
YEEHAA! Girlfriend!
Pat yourself on the back! And YOU said "I" was amazing!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
It's the Angels BEST time of the year! Go forth and "BE" merry!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Hey Rin!
I just got back from a visit to my Mom's. Totally unscheduled!
I cleaned the fish tank and was cleaning the hamster cages when I found one hamster with some kind of growth/infection on his face. he's such a tiny little thing and the growth was HUGE!
So, after finishing up most of my house chores, I took him up to my parents house. Had Dad take a look,,,and he agreed with my determination - Hamster had to be put down.
Thank God Dad was there to take care of that for me and DD need not know exactly what happend. Poor thing!
So,,, I get back here and find Miss Mimi has tattled on me! LOL! I really needed it and deserve it.
I don't know why I let it all upset me so much. The problem is that I reacted immediately to the anger I felt at his not being available when DD was with his mom & that she didn't know how to contact me. I then just dove head long into the drama.
How stupid of me!
What did I THINK was going to happen? DUH!
Why did I open myself up to that? DUH?
Feeling pretty stupid today! Double DUH!
Well, it's time to move back into the peaceful darkness. I feel no need to discuss it with Drac in any way shape or form. Just going to do it.
I am going to clean & put away the hamster cage and finish up DD's room.
Now, don't kick yourself to hard, I think sometimes we need a little reminder...
I think that you are doing the right thing! I like where I am and don't regret not talking to POWS...I mean last night he tried to use the kids to make me feel guilty...scr222w him! he can own that guilt!
Poor DD! how do you think she'll take it?
It's all part of the ride, Bugs. It's hard to keep your eye on what you're doing all the time. It's easy to slip.
I'm glad to hear that you're getting your focus back.
Hi everyone!
I've finished giving myself 50 lashes and am back.
DD came home a bit early Sunday, which was great. I had laid down on the couch and fallen asleep. I got to see DSS for just a minute, which was nice.
DD and I played, got ready for bed, and had a talk about the hamster. She was upset at first, but took it pretty well. After all, she had 2 hamsters, so we still have 1 left. Also, with having a fish and a dog now, the hamsters don't get a whole lot of attention.
Drac sent an email late Sunday night. I didn't bother to read it until yesterday afternoon. It was just a bunch of bull about how he'd talked to 'a friend' on the phone about it and said he tried to put himself in my shoes and thought about how he'd feel if the roles were reversed.
That someday he hopes that we can get to where neither of us jumps to conclusions. Gave a big story about how he'd put all the phone numbers on the wall next to his mom's phone, but she'd forgotten about it.
He even used the words, I am sorry.
Of course, he then had to add a "However" to it. It couldn't possibly be totally his responsibility. He thinks his Aunt caused it all to become 'overheated', and that I "was a part of the family long enough to realize that".
I gave myself exactly 30 seconds on the message and then moved on with my day. I am extremely busy at work and don't have time for anything else.
DD and I had a great night last night. We gave Beau his first bath and he did GREAT! WE need more practice, but he was just perfect! Makes me wish I knew more about where he came from that he turned into such a perfect little gentleman!
Oooops,, time has gotten away from me. Gotta jump in the shower. Will try to ck back later today as I am working from home.
Sounds like you're doing good Bugsy.
Boy howdy do I know how it feels to open yourself up just to get kicked in the soft spots.
On the upside.. at least while he's not taking full responsibility for his actions, he didn't blame you a bit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'd send SD over to his place with a shovel if he did <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
James,
I was thinking last night about my soft spots and decided I absolutely need to start working out again! LOL!
Seriously, though, I DO mean that - both physically AND emotionally. Time to toughen up again. I did really well at both over this summer. When I stopped, it really started to 'show' - - again, on both fronts.
About this -
On the upside.. at least while he's not taking full responsibility for his actions, he didn't blame you a bit.
I found this intriging at first,,,,I started to 'analyze' it,,,and then envisioned Mimi holding up a [color:"red"] [/color] HUGE RED [color:"red"] [/color] stop sign in front of me!
While it may be a small change in Drac, that is not for me to worry or think about.
Thanks for the support
I'd send SD over to his place with a shovel if he did
Frankly, I'd be for sending everyone here over to Drac's to take a whack at him! LOL! But, again, not MY problem.
Hmm... a red stop sign.
I think I need one of those.. do they automate them? I mean.. here I am spending time concerning myself about an email WW sent about something that is really NO BIG DEAL in the first place!
Gah.. I might be up for Wack-A-Drac just to relieve some of this pent up frustration..
DD and I had a great night last night. We gave Beau his first bath and he did GREAT! WE need more practice, but he was just perfect! Makes me wish I knew more about where he came from that he turned into such a perfect little gentleman!
momma raised me right and I was an alter boy for 8 years.
any more questions?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
One word.....INTERMEDIARY.
He is still getting the satisfaction of getting his message through to you. He is still trying to manipulate you into a friendship role. Now he's sorry -- because it suits him, he thinks this little extension of an olive branch might get him what he wants -- you to be nice to him.
However, when you hit one of those soft spots again, he will growl and yell again. Because he doesn't like feeling like a failure....
He wants something from you. You need to change this dance....
BC!!! Hey there!
Altar boy? You gotta post some pics of THAT for us!! Good to hear from you!!
Should I tell you about the one & only habit that is a problem with my Beau?? It rhymes with "jumping",,, LOL!
Lexxx,
He is still getting the satisfaction of getting his message through to you. He is still trying to manipulate you into a friendship role. Now he's sorry -- because it suits him, he thinks this little extension of an olive branch might get him what he wants -- you to be nice to him.
However, when you hit one of those soft spots again, he will growl and yell again. Because he doesn't like feeling like a failure....
He wants something from you. You need to change this dance....
So you are saying that he just wants me to BE NICE so that that this is all "OK"? Is that it?
What does he care now?
I have been thinking about your post and don't disagree. I am trying to wrap my brain/emotions/thought process around how to approach going back to the use of the intermediary.
I know it's for my own good - what is tripping me up is that telling Drac I am going back to intermediary, it just SCREAMS to me that I am sending him the message that I am still a total mess about him. I don't want to send that message.
Give me some time on this,,, I know I'll get there. I Do Not want to keep up the current dance.
I had planned to pick up DSS today and keep him through the entire holiday & weekend. Instead, Drac is going to pick up DD today as usual and have her spend the night tonight. He is dropping them both off tomorrow am at my sister's, which is where we have Thanksgiving.
I have kept myself from going down the Drac Path, thinking about what/how he might feel having to bring our children there for the holiday,,,,,where we have gone every year since we were married,,and then HE has to leave. But then I envisioned that stop sign.
My Dday was a year ago this month, just before DD's birthday. As so many can attest to, the first set of holidays is hard enough, but that the DDay falls on top of it can get those triggers going off non-stop if I don't reign them in. I've been doing pretty well so far.
Instead,,,since I am having an unexpected kid free night, I am going to meet up with friends from my home town. Every year a bunch of them get together the night before Thanksgiving, as so many folks are in town for the holiday. I've not gone in about 10 years, so I am really looking forward to it!
Kind of like a "class reunion" thing,,,,WHO will I see? HOW will they look? Bugs, of course, is going to be in casual Goddess mode. I think it's going to be an Ego Boost Night for Bugs!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sounds like you're doing well Bugs.
I can imagine it would be a difficult tiptoe job to go back to the intermediary. Is there a way you can do it more or less without letting Drac know?
I mean, the kids come in and out on the exchanges without you having to interact with him..
On the other hand, it's Plan B, and it works with a letter.
I'm not sure on the protocols of coming out of Plan B when you've finally 'given up' on things.. I've read nowhere here about how to do that.. but it does scream 'Ok.. uncle.. we'll be happy co-parents' to me. I imagine that's what it said to Drac too.
If that's not the case, you need to pull away again... I'm not sure how necessary the intermediary is in Plan B.. I'm sure some will say it is an absolute must, but I haven't been there yet.
What does it really matter what Drac thinks of going back to the intermediary? Why is anyone bothering mulling that one over? Who gives a crap what he may or may not think? Let him stew in it himself.
Bugsy, just go dark. This is about you and your health/happiness/solitude/peace. You get that whatever way you need to, okay.
I know it's for my own good - what is tripping me up is that telling Drac I am going back to intermediary, it just SCREAMS to me that I am sending him the message that I am still a total mess about him. I don't want to send that message.
You want to send an HONEST and SINCERE MESSAGE that you want NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM except for WHAT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. How is that sending a message that you are a TOTAL MESS about him? I don't get it. I think he's got your mind in some way, Bugs. I think you are somehow buying into his way of thinking.
HE DIVORCED YOU. He CHOSE to DIVORCE you in order to be with another woman. Wrap your mind around that. GET TOUGH and let him know that this is not OK with you!! You are not going to be on FRIENDLY TERMS with a MAN who does this to HIS WIFE! HOW DARE HE think that is OK AND ACCEPTABLE! Why are you tolerating this for one minute. He chose to BE DIVORCED then let him BE DIVORCED. DIVORCED to me means END OF RELATIONSHIP except for PARENTING RESPONSIBILITIES. You don't need to know about HIS LIFE and WEEKEND ACTIVITIES and he does not need to know about yours. When the kids are with him, they are HIS RESPONSIBILITY and when with you, YOURS. He's wanting to call you and ask you about the your son when convenient when if you were living together it wouldn't be a problem for you two to easily work together.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Give me some time on this,,, I know I'll get there. I Do Not want to keep up the current dance.
Why do you need TIME? What's up with you, Bugs?
HERE IS THE STOP SIGN>>>>>>>>>
HE IS STILL A WAYWARD SPOUSE...HURRYING TO GET BACK TO THE CRACK DEALER!! Ok..AN X SPOUSE..YUCK...
Instead,,,since I am having an unexpected kid free night, I am going to meet up with friends from my home town. Every year a bunch of them get together the night before Thanksgiving, as so many folks are in town for the holiday. I've not gone in about 10 years, so I am really looking forward to it!
WONDERFUL!!
Have you given your daughter a phone number to always be able to reach you. She's old enough to have that isn't she?
I know it's for my own good - what is tripping me up is that telling Drac I am going back to intermediary, it just SCREAMS to me that I am sending him the message that I am still a total mess about him. I don't want to send that message.
My suggestion:
My dearest husband,
I love you and the family we have created. I married you for life. Unfortunately, the circumstances of our current situation are eroding my love for you. Because I do not want that to happen, because I want to preserve the small chance that we will be able to come together as an intact family again, I must cease contact with you. I look forward to a day when you decide to work with me to re-build a happy, loving marriage as the foundation for our family. Until that day, I must insist upon the measures spelled out below. These measures ensure that we both meet our parental responsibilities to both of our beloved children, while eliminating the need for contact between the two of us.
[spell out logistics]
One warning: You may want to consult with your lawyer or an MB (or MB-related) coach before proceeding down this path. I only say that to you because of the question about your legal right to a relatinship with your son. There have been other cases where Plan B was not a possible option because it undermined the parental rights of a BS who was not a biological parent of the child in question.
Have you visited Save Your Marriage Central? I believe you can work with them to get an trained intermediary.
GREAT LETTER!!
My vote is to go with it...
Yes, I'm going nuts. Apologies once again for the screw-up!
Sorry 'bout the mix-up! I don't know what happened!!
Hey Bugs;
Have a good holiday?
Whatever happened to DD's phone? I remember you saying you had ordered it....That would have prevented all of this most recent drama. Disney makes one that only calls Mom or Dad. If Drac thinks she can handle an IPod, she can certainly manage a Disney-phone...
What did he end up getting her for her birthday? I don't think I ever heard...
Bugs:
God is in control of our lives and our marriages completely. All things are under the absolute control of God who is God of the universe. God desires only good things for us. Satan can not touch a hair on our head with out God's permission and then ONLY for God to have it turn around for good in our future. Not all things are good when they happen, but God will make all things work together for your good in the future, to bring glory and honor to our Lord.
Remember to forgive Drac fro what he did or didn't do this holiday, and for what he is doing to both you and your children every day.
" Walking in forgiveness is vital for your own spiritual walk and for the restoration of your marriage"
As it says in Matthew 6:13-15 - "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For if you forgive men when they sin agains you, your heavenly father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your father will not forgive your sins."
You must choose to love Drac and his family unconditionally, regardless of their lack of compassion, lack of commitment to your marriage or their lack of responsibility to you and your children.
Seek God for HIS love and compassion, that only HE can give to you. There will always be someone who can hurt, ridicule, reject or abandon you. But our heavenly father will never leave us nor forsake us. You need to learn how to love REGARDLESS of other people's behaviors.
1 Peter 4:8 - "Above all, love each other deeply because Love covers over a multitude of sins."
It does not matter what our spouses have done to us. We should love them unconditionally the way that our Lord loves us ! Once they turn to God, God will lead them home !
This passage was especially comforting to me this morning, may it comfort you and anyone that reads it the same way:
Eph 2: 13-16 - But now in Christ Jesus you who were once far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one, and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with it's commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of two, thus making peace and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the Cross, by which he put death to their hostility.
*******************************************************
Lord, heal our hurts and pains in our hearts. Help us to forgive and to love our spouses unconditionally. Holy spirit, empower us to love YOU LORD, our spouses, ourselves, our neighbors and our enemies as YOUR WORD has taught us. Lord, break down the walls of hostility this Holiday Season that has been made by selfishness, anger and unforgiveness by our spouses and other loved ones. Lord, reveal God's truths to our spouses and our beloved ones that we pray salvation for every day. And Lord make this Christmas season special to us and our families. We pray this in the mighty name of Jesus, Amen.
Bugsy's not talking because she's out having a great holiday weekend.
Hi Everyone!
I have 2 minutes before I have to get DD up for school, but just wanted to say good morning!
Yep, I DID have a really great holiday weekend! I really just needed to take a break from here, from RL, from everything. I spent the entire time with family and the kids. 100%. I didn't even look at my Blackberry 1 time all weekend!!
I'll update later.
Hello again!
Well, I've been thinking all day about how to update everyone and in reading LG's post to Sis, I found it.
I took this weekend, set down my backpack and gazed at the trees. I spent time with friends, family, kids, God, and the dog.
I put the first things first, which means all of the above - - - I put and last things last, Drac. And that is where he will remain unless he returns someday as H.
I need to put DD to bed, but wanted to ck in now in case I fall asleep, too! Am fighting a cold- YUCK!
Thanks for checking on me everyone. I hope to have a bit more time in the next few days to catch up here. I can't believe the post-Thankgiving pig-out I missed on SL's thread!
Mimi - - Dessertsss?? Hmmmm, I could make an inuendo here, but in the spirit of time, I will refrain! LOL!
I did tell my H that I was "IN ECTASY"..but it resulted from all the chocolatety, caramelly, pecanish, coconuttyish GOODNESS..AHHH..
I worked out an hour today, though...
I'm planning to PIG OUT again on Christmas... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Mimi,
That description has my mouth watering! I LOVE those kinds of sweets, too!
Well, as I said earlier, I've just been living life. Taking care of DD, DSS, and ME! It's been pretty darn great, too!
Today I am going for an evaluation to confirm if I am a candidate for lasik surgery. IF I am, which I am pretty sure I am based on my regular eye doctor's evaluation, I am going to have the surgery before Christmas!
It's something I've wanted to do for a while, but put off due to cost. However, this year I had put money into my medical savings account at work. I had planned on giving Drac the gift of lasik for his birthday this year. So, the money is just sitting there and I will lose it if I don't use it.
I recv'd an email from him a few days ago that he's going out of town for 4 days starting my next weekend w/the kids. I did not reply. After spending about 30 seconds wondering who/what/why/where,,,I just deleted it and moved on.
DD came home this week with a perfect progress report and a notice that she is Student of the Month!! Whoo HOO! We were BOTH SO excited!
She asked me to send Drac copies of both, so I did. That's all I sent, copies of the papers and nothing else. No note, not comments.
I later sent notice that I am out of town on business next week. Again, just the facts of what days.
He tried to engage me with 3 different emails - one offeriing to 'help' by taking DD to gymnastics while I am gone (I got it covered), another talking about DD (today Student of the Month - tomorrow Woman President), and the last, a news article link (asking, can you believe this?)
None of them worked. Again, deleted and moved on.
Recently several folks have brought his name up in conversation - I simply state I know nothing about him and I change the subject. It didn't even twinge. Just a fact of life that I don't care to discuss.
Last night while DD was with Drac, I put up some Christmas lights so she was surprised when she got home. I plan to finish those this weekend, along with the lights on the tree. I am going to wait for the next weekend with the kids to finish decorating the tree.
Plans with friends Friday night. Going to wrap presents and maybe do some shopping on Saturday. Sunday - RELAX and pack for my trip.
I am staying busy. Reading the Word daily. Staying happy, living my life. It IS a pretty good life, too!
Sounds like you're doing well Bugs.
By extracting yourself from his drama again, you're allowing yourself some peace.. great for you!
Excellent news about DD, you should be very proud, and I can tell you are <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My prayers are with you.
Bugs,
You sound so great. You are doing awesome in your personal recovery. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks James & Daze,
I have been feeling really great! Like I'm really moving forward.
Then, Murphy must have decided to visit my world today because I had one of those WTF?! things happen today.
I got a phone call from DSS's Algebra teacher. Yep, apparently Drac hasn't updated everyone to call HIM. DSS is failing math. Again, not because he can't DO the work, but because he is missing homework assignments. Yep, 3 BIG assignments SINCE the progress report incident/situation, since Drac has been supposedly checking and working with the school and DSS.
She suggested after school tutoring to help him. I politely explained the situation - and that she would need to talk to Drac. I DID explain to her WHAT she should address specifically with Drac,,giving her background on DSS, his AD/HD issues, the family situation, and Drac's appraisal that he shouldn't "have to do all of this for a 13yr old". Her response was, "Well yes, that's the point - He's 13!"
I hung up the phone and just cried. I was so upset, frustrated, and scared. If he doesn't do his work & pass Alegbra, he WON'T go on to High School. No, it's not the end of the world, but this child is SO EXTREMELY SMART! There's no reason for this to be happening! He should already be on a short list of college scholarships,,,instead he is failing Algebra.
I talked to my Mom, vented it out, and then pulled it together.
I had my evaluation appt today and am going to have Lasik surgery before the end of the year! I took the time during the drive to think about the sitch. I'd emailed a good friend who also happens to be a co-worker that also knows Drac about it. She called while I was at the dr.
Drac had called and left a vm. Bottom line is that he apparently didn't know that *I* had already talked to the teacher. He didn't mention that DSS was FAILING, he said he "met" with the teacher, brought up that the Jr high has no record of his AD/HD background, said that DSS is doing better with bringing work home, but that he needs more 'help than Drac can give him', so they are going to start tutoring 2 days a week for an hour after school to help him with this and to ck up on his other homework. He wanted to 'keep me in the loop' and to email him with my thoughts or ideas.
WTF?!
Now, Mimi, before you get really concerned, I am NOT going off the deep end here. I'm not all riled up. I did NOT repsond to his message. However, I do need to vent here.
And, there's a bit more from my conversation with my friend that I had later.
I have to take DD to dance, but will come back to finish up the story. One quick thing before I go,,,,,Drac was telling this friend the other day he had a certificate for a free portrait at a professional studio and wanted DD, me, my mom & Grandmother to get a 4 generation photo done. And Drac said "Bugs really is a beautiful woman" .
You did your part by speaking to the teacher...and you will work and talk with YOUR SON when he comes for his visits and evidence YOUR LOVE for HIM then..those times with YOU and the LOVE you have for him will have the greatest impact on HIS LIFE..and you staying dark is also BEST for him and all concerned..you know that..we still have DRAC..in HIS HANDS...you know whose hands...
So, apparently this co-worker has had conversations w/Drac about a lot of different things. Among them the fact that I will NOT be friends with him. She understands. She even asked me, 'did you say you would be friends'
Apparently he is standing on a 'what if' conversation from yrs ago where I said that. I told her, although she already knowsn that the way Dracs acted like we were over,how he committed adultery, hurting me, hurting the kids, all of that will never be OK and I can not/will not pretend that it is. We won't be friends.
Apparently he is totally overwhelmed and has admitted as much. With everything from work to housework to DSS. He may be in danger of losing his position at work. She told him that he needs to get back into counseling and that something isn't right with him and won't be until he faces whatever is going on.
She and I both agreed that he does not value himself enough. Also, he is floundering because I am not there. He chose to 'reinvent' himself last year and that did not work out, and now he has no idea what he is doing or who he is.
For goodness sake, what was the point of leaving a message that was pretty much a lie?
She said she thinks he 'wants and needs my help' but he doesn't want me to know he needs me. He draws close and then pushes away.
So, the truth is, he continues to spiral down but has as yet to reach bottom.
She tried to encourage me to make peace with Drac for DSS. That with Drac's work hours it is hard for him. My reply was that he Never misses out on getting off work for hiw OWN fun! He needs to realize what is important and make DSS his priority.
I told her, and she eventually agreed - I can not (no one can) force Drac to be the father he needs to be. That is on him. I am not THERE, so am limited in helping DSS. I am not Drac's wife, and I can not support him by acting like it. I can't fix this. Drac needs to fix himself first and take care of DSS.
I called and talked to DSS. It went well. I set a time for tomorrow where we will discuss our 'plan' for step by step, exactly how he will get organized and stay organized. He is to be ready with ideas on how each day assignments get written down how/when/where they are completed, and how they will get turned in.
This I can do with DSS directly. It's the best I can do.
Mimi, I even said to him that I am so upset and concerned about this because I love him so much!
I know he gets that.
So, am with DD at dance now. Then Home for bath and bed.
Tomorrow she goes to Drac's for the weekend. My days/nights are booked.
I am going to spend some of my shopping time looking for anything that will help DSS. Am thinking of getting and setting up an organization system for him. I will decide based on our talk tomorrow
Drac remains, in His hands!
WEll, BUGS...considering everything that's going on you know what you need to be doing and you are following through...
I think that it's just a matter of time...that is with Drac...
You sound good, BUSY but good...please make sure that you are taking care of yourself...paying attention to your needs...
I hope that you ahve some fun time in there somewhere too! Even if it's just relaxing on the sofa watching a funny movie!
(((BUGS)))
You are doing great! Of course, I wouldn't expect anything less from a fellow ANGEL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Apparently he is totally overwhelmed and has admitted as much. With everything from work to housework to DSS. He may be in danger of losing his position at work. She told him that he needs to get back into counseling and that something isn't right with him and won't be until he faces whatever is going on.
Just like any other ADDICTION, an AFFAIR is self-destructive. The WS' life starts falling apart. That's what happened to my H. Read up around here. Everything in their lives starts going wrong until the bottom is hit. We still have not cleaned up all the mess he made.
So, the truth is, he continues to spiral down but has as yet to reach bottom.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE...
I called and talked to DSS. It went well. I set a time for tomorrow where we will discuss our 'plan' for step by step, exactly how he will get organized and stay organized. He is to be ready with ideas on how each day assignments get written down how/when/where they are completed, and how they will get turned in.
This I can do with DSS directly. It's the best I can do.
THAT IS WONDERFUL!!
Mimi, I even said to him that I am so upset and concerned about this because I love him so much!
I know he gets that.
Beautiful!!!
I am going to spend some of my shopping time looking for anything that will help DSS. Am thinking of getting and setting up an organization system for him.
Just LOVE him..buy him his FAVORITE DESSERT..or FOOD..or whatever... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Hey Rin!
Thanks, Angel for the words of support!
The truth is, I AM having fun in my life. It may not be the kind of 'fun' most folks would write home about, but I am doing things that bring me joy.
For instance, this weekend, I will make sure that I have everything necessary for me & the kids to make Christmas candy next weekend. They both love it when we cook together and I really didn't take the time last year (I wasn't in the mood) to do any Christmas candy. This year, I Can't Wait!
Anyone like peanut butter fudge? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mimi, thanks for the support! I felt pretty good about the way I handled things yesterday.
As the subject line says, I've slowed down when it comes to Drac. That's a HUGE step for me in this. I no longer feel the 'need' to read or listen to any communication from him. I can actually just let those things sit until I am ready to open them up and I don't feel any of the previously self-imposed pressure to get to them.
Then, AFTER getting to them, I don't feel the compulsion to respond. In fact, it's gone from my trying to find ways to convince myself NOT to respond to now, I sit back and find that I have NO reason TO respond. I can rationally analyize it over time without feeling pressured in any way.
The old previous feeling of needing/wanting to respond right away,,,, feeling that I "had" to get across what I thought/felt,,,that somehow he'd magically see things from MY perspective,, all of that is Gone.
It's a great feeling of relief and freedom.
For instance, Drac sent email last night while DD was at dance. I didn't even bother to open it until this morning.
Apparently DSS told Drac about our conversation and asks "that in the future if you have conversations with his teachers you share them with me. I feel the only way this will work is if we are on the same page when we discuss things with him and have the same understanding from the teachers."
Previously, I would have already contacted Drac yesterday. I would have gone into how the teacher called me FIRST. I would have pointed out to him how I know his vm message was more of a 'coverup' than the actual truth because *I* had the real facts directly from the teachers. By pointing out that he didn't 'meet' with anyone, that *I* know DSS is actually failing because of MISSED assignments that were due since he was supposedly doing all of the 'checking' on DSS's work.
All of this would have been said with total disrespectful judgements and some fabulous LBs!
Instead, by staying dark and letting the chips fall, Drac knows all of what I would have said, without MY having to do a thing. He may not want to admit it to himself, but he knows it.
Now, it probably is a DJ, but I am pretty darn sure that the reason for his email is because he didn't understand that DSS risks not going on to HS. This is something I stressed with DSS when we spoke & he seemed totally taken aback by it. I would guess that Drac was, too.
I can respect his wanting to have a consistent message with DSS. How much it is necessary for us to communicate to accomplish that is something I am sure we disagree upon. So, I will ponder what, if anything, I want to say about his 'request'.
I am going to work from home today so that I can let Beau out late this afternoon before I leave for a hair cut appt and to meet up with my friends for the evening.
Hope I can get some time to catch up with everyone's threads!
AH! I TOTALLY understand the joy that you can get from doing things like that! I'm SOOO like that!
The kids an I baked Blueberry and Banana Nut muffins along with some Oatmeal Raisin cookies last weekend! They devoured them over the next few days...Of course, there was licking the spoons and bowl...
I like doing stuff like that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm going to try to do the Christmas light thing this weekend...I like putting mine up at nights! The boys are with POWS this weekend...
Sounds like you're doing well here too Bugs. I know it's a struggle dealing with DSS issues, and I totally get how sensitive this is for you and Drac.
I'm glad you understand that it's not -your- responsibility to get Drac interested and doing his job as a father. I'm glad you're taking the responsibility for what you can do. THAT is being strong.. Drac is just mad because he got caught in a lie, and that you had more information than he did.. and in turn, the better response.
He's trying to compete with you.. and perhaps his desire to send a unified message is a reaction to you withdrawing again.. another excuse for contact.
Yes.. it's useless to speculate, and he at least has a good reason this time.. but you two can do your jobs independently of eachother, you know that now.. Drac is starting to feel like he needs help.. confirmed by your mutual friend. Keep up what you're doing.. let Drac deal with the consequences of not having such a wonderful wife to depend on for the best answers.
Hey gang.
Just taking a few minutes out of work for some MB time. Have been reading up on a lot of threads, but not posting much.
My friend/coworker called me this morning to share a funny story about her sister, who has my same name. In the course of conversation, she said that Drac thinks he wants to live the single life, he doesn't have his priorities straight (which we all know that), he's always able to make time for fun, but doesn't take the time to put DSS first, and that he says he "just wants to be friends with you for the sake of the kids". She told him, 'Bugs is not going to be your friend, not for a long, long, time, if ever'. She knows this to be true, as she went through her husband having an A last year as well. They, fortunately, have worked things out and are still together in great recovery.
Again, she mentioned that he really needs to get back into counseling and that hopefully with time/age, he will gain better wisdom, but who knows when that might happen. She told him that IF he wants the single life, then he needs to get comfortable with himself FIRST. He needs to be able to spend time alone and enjoy it. We agreed that he is not capable of that. So, he keeps trying to fill his life with people, with women, with activities and 'stuff', none of which is ever enough. It's much easier for him to blame ME or as she said, everybody else, for how he feels, especially when he feels bad. He takes no responsibility for his own feelings nor for the horrible way he's treated me & the kids. Is that disrespectful judgment?
I told her I've detached from the hoopla of it all, staying focused on me & my life. I then switched the subject back to her sister and other things.
I could "feel" some twinges coming on by the continued conversation about Drac. I started to feel the urge to ask questions about him. So, I put a stop to it right then and there. I enforced my own boundary with myself!! I'm kind of proud of that.
I just got the best stuff from the posts on Sis's thread about resentment and addicts. It spoke to me about ME and about Drac, especially now.
I think I feel like some of MY BS 'fog' has cleared. I am moving forward again, still learning things about myself,,,and many other aspects of life.
It feels good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Buggs, I'm witnessing sanity and health in your Plan B. Aren't you glad you are doing this?
Your DSS has a real friend in you.
Bellevue,
Wow! Sanity AND health - 2 words that I have not associated with Me & My world for over a year!!
Thanks! That means a lot.
And, yes, I am happy with what I am doing and where I am right now. I am not completely satisifed, but happy. The fact is, not being completely satisified is a good thing, as it keeps me striving for more and for even better things in every way.
There are 2 emails from Drac sitting in my in box. Preview mode tells me one is about DSS, one is a forwarded joke.
Both will remain there unopened for a while. At some point I will read about DSS and the other will go immediately into the trash.
No muss. No fuss.
I think I will go take Beau for a lunchtime walk! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think I will go take Beau for a lunchtime walk!
Got some Bud Light for him? Oh, wait. Wrong one. It's all so confusing.
You sound so strong, Bugs. I'm really happy for you. Even if you are a Cardinals fan.
(((Bugs)))
BC only comes around every couple days and does a search for the phrase "Bud Light".
he should be here any time.
Hi Bugs!! Dark side of Pluto Plan B! It's the only way to fly!
SD,
Part of my strength comes from being a Cards fan all these years! LOL!
Chris,
We will have to remember the Bud Light call out for BC! My Beau prefers little steak shaped treats!
I have found the view from over here on the dark side of Pluto to be helping my vision a lot. Much better perspective on things.
I think the lack of gravity helps keep me from getting bogged down and from moving too quickly - which is a pretty cool feeling!
The DSS update tells me that Drac finally talked to the counselor today. Only took 2 weeks since I suggested it and a call from another teacher to make it happen.
DSS is failing 3 subjects. Passing tests, but not turning in homework.
Counselor is going to talk to all of DSSs teachers about putting him in a program with longer class time for failing subjects, less students per class, and help with organization.
Drac says he & DSS work on homework together every night and that he 'thinks this problem should be improving'.
Well, it's working just dandy so far, don't ya think?
I filed the DSS update email and deleted the joke. I will follow up with DSS myself.
Gotta run,, I think I heard the fridge door and the sound of a bottle opening,,,,my Beau may be switching to Bud Light!
Bugs,
I've followed your thread and you are doing great. You are my role model. I hope I can get to where you are someday soon.
Starting to enjoy my new place and starting to have fun with decorating now that the boxes are almost unpacked. I'm still behind you, but the gap is closing.....
My Beau prefers little steak shaped treats!
Chris can say for sure, but I think the Cajun goes for those, too.
Stay dark. It's working for you.
Chai,
Gee, not sure I'm the best 'role model' but am glad that perhaps reading on my sitch has helped you in some way. Hang in there!! Make "your" place a special, peaceful place for you!
Hey SD! Let's just have a party - - It's steaks & BudLight for everyone!! Well, not everyone. Sorry, but I don't generally drink beer,,,to filling!!
Friday night I met my friend J. She & I haven't seen each other for a while & had a nice couple of hours catching up. My frend G came by later to join us. We headed out of there early,,,,,,,,,,,I think J intentionally cut out early hoping that G and I would go out. She told me that "you 2 are meant for each other, I've thought that for the last 15 years".
Well, G followed me home so I could let Beau out, then we went to a local establishment and watched a band for a couple of hours. It was fun. I can't remember the last time I did that with a guy. Came home by midnight.
Is that considered a "date"? No discussion was had by us in that regard & no kissing, hand holding, etc. at all. But, he was very courteous. Opened doors, pulled out chairs, hand on the small of my back as we walked through the crowd, stuff like that.
Gee,,,,it's been so long - I am so clueless in that dept.
So, anyway,,,, shopping ALl day yesterday with Sis, BIL, and Mom. Got a lot done though & was exhausted last night. I laid down on the couch & feel asleep before 8 pm. Woke at 9pm. No call from the kids, so I called them.
They were at Drac's friends house watching the football game. DSS answered on the 2nd ring, so obviously they had the phone handy. I stopped myself when I started to get upset about Drac not having them call as he is supposed to. I was on the edge, but simply reminded DSS about it and moved on. It's not their fault, but Drac's. BUT, it's not worth making an issue out of it. Could be his way of just trying to get another reaction out of me.
Sorry to disappoint him, but those buttons can not be pushed when I now reside on the dark side of Pluto!
Well, gotta get moving. Have a lot to do today. Cleaning house, fixing the lights on the tree, laundry, and grocery shopping. Hoping I can really knock through a lot of this so I can wrap some Christmas presents and still have time to pack for my business trip tomorrow!
Real quick before getting busy for the day, I have to own up to a few 'moments' yesterday.
I was shopping for my niece's baby who is due to arrive in May. They have had a hard time trying to get pregnant, and with the loss of my nephew this year, this baby is really quite a blessing for our family.
I found a beautiful glass statue of a baby held in a hand. It said, "This is the child for which I have prayed"
Some of you may not be aware, but my DD is SO much that for me. Previously, I had 5 miscarriages before becoming pregnant with DD. I had a perfect pregnancy & as you know, DD is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
I saw that statue & I just broke down in tears in the store. I just stood there crying and could not stop. This baby, my DD, and then the thoughts of "what could/should be' with Drac vs what "is" now just overwhelmed me.
Drac was SO fabulous during my pregnancy. He told me how DD was the gift he had so wanted to give me, because I was the most beautiful woman, inside & out, that he'd ever met and that he knew I would be the Best Mother ever.
I'll never forget the night before she was born. We sat in her room that was all ready for her, knowing that she would arrive the next morning by scheduled c-section. He held me, looked into my eyes and told me how much he loved us both. Until that point, it was the single most moving, special, powerful, loving moment of my entire life.
I then made the mistake of watching the movie Hope Floats last night. I like it and hate it at the same time. It's about a woman whose husband has an A with her best friend and goes off into A land with the OW, leaving her & her DD - - and how she works through it. It is somewhat inspiring, but very painful as it hits SO close to home.
I had another Major crying meltdown. But, I just decided to let myself have it. It was a really good long one, too. I even have the puffy swollen eyes today to prove it! EEK!
But, I am not and did not beat myself up about it. I told myself I should not be surprised to be having a meltdown. The whole sitch, the holidays, shopping alone, the baby reminder, and the fact that it was 1 year ago today that Drac announced he was moving out.
I had so hoped and prayed that this day would find him with me, talking about how this day last year he made what was the one of the biggest mistakes of his life by leaving.
**SIGH**
Ok, now I really have to get up and get moving before I push myself into another melt down!! I am determined NOT to have another today. Last night was ok, but am not going to get in that Habit!!
You do know that it's okay to have those moments, right? I think it's good that you let yourself feel it. There was a lot there...a lot of symbolism with the baby, PLUS the anniversary of moving out? And the holidays? Yikes.
C'mon. You'd have to be made of stone not to have moments. It's a lot healthier than stuffing them.
And what's best is that you pushed through them, without getting stuck! That's the REAL story...the REAL success. Look what you can do!
I've got my wedding anniversary coming up on the 10th, so if I do half as well as you did, I'll be pleased. I almost think it would be symbolic if the final D papers were signed that day. It can all end right on unlucky anniversary 13, and might as well shoot for only one trigger day to deal with instead of two.
Hang in there.
((((bugs))))
It's OK to cry. Makes us feel better sometimes.
(((bugs)))
You shouldn't feel bad about the meltdown. Lots of triggers. . . lots of emotions building up, and it was good to let yourself go ahead and feel it.
I'm sure tomorrow will be better. You're too strong for it not to be.
(((Bugs)))
Bugsmom,
I know exactly how you are feeling. I also saw Hope Floats and thought the same thing.
I found out that when I learned to differentiate between the WS and H, it made it easier for me. Later I learned to let him decide which character he was and I had t/b strong enough that if it was the WS character, I would cut it short.....very short. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
That special time you had when your dd was born will always be special. Hold onto that memory and know a WS could never have been there.
Hugz,
L.
Everyone,
Thanks so much for the support! I DID do better the rest of yesterday. House was clean, laundry was done, bag was packed, Christmas lights fixed, went to the store, and I took the time out for a nice, relaxing hot bath with candles! I was in a very good place by the time Drac dropped off DD.
I called DSS's cell phone but got his vm. I left him a nice message, asking him to call me if he got the message, told him I'd be out of town, but I'd call. Love you/miss you!
DD and I spent the entire evening playing together. It was nice, especially since I'll be gone the next couple of days.
She was kind of down when she got home. I tried to draw her out about it, but she resisted, so I just let it go after letting her know she could tell me anything.
Well, it came out naturally later in the evening. She said she'd heard Daddy talking and he called someone in the family a "big fat liar'. For whatever reason, although she couldn't say why,she thought he was talking about ME. I just said, "well sweetie, WE know that isn't true, now don't we." She agreed.
Then more came out. She feels like the family is really not good. Daddy is mad at everybody all of the time, even at her and DSS. All he did all morning Sat was talk on the cell phone. Then they went to C's house and all he did was play with C's daughter,,,,,he thought she (DD) had done things wrong, even though she hadn't. It was really late when they got home so he didn't spend any time with her then either.
Sun. morning, again, all he did was talk on the cell phone. Then they had a few family members over (3) for her 'other' birthday party. He spent his time with them and then brought her home.
She was really upset. She said not only is he mad all of the time, but she never gets to spend time with him.
"We should have never gotten divorced. Our family is falling apart. Daddy's always mad. When I was 4 he was the PERFECT Daddy. Now, he's Horrible"
At first, it all made ME feel MAD. Then I felt SAD. I tried to reassure her that her Daddy loves her very much. He just has a lot on his mind right now, but that he will figure things out. He needs to work on some stuff,,,he will figure out why he's angry all of the time, and we'll pray for him. We know God will help him get better.
I didn't really know what else to say?!??
Questions to all here - -
1. What else could I / should I have said to DD
2. Do I bother to communicate any of this to Drac?
She knows she is supposed to spend almost an entire week with him from Christmas am to New Year's Eve. She doesn't want to and asked me to email him about it. She doesn't want to tell him because she is afraid of hurting his feelings.
What do I do about that - if anything?
Geez I hate this!!
I think you're doing just fine Bugs.. it's the Holidays, and there were so many triggers there.. just like all the others are saying.
It's ok to cry sometimes.. this is a horrible thing many of us are going through, but your strength to get this far, your strength to move foward is a blessing we sometimes need to be reminded of.
You're stronger now, you've gone to work on Bugs and look how far you've come. Perhaps in those moments, take time to remember how blessed you are for DD.. even give thanks to God for Drac in those moments because without him, she would not be. Find something to be thankful for in your sorrow and God will comfort you.
Honestly Bugs.. I think you handled it about as well as you could have.
I don't think it'll do any good to communicate this to Drac, you're in Plan B.. stay there. It's his job to maintain his relationship with his children, just as much as it was his job to maintain his marriage. His consequences are his alone.
DD6 is reacting naturally to a very difficult situation. You just keep being there for her, obviously you are the one she opens up to, you are the one she trusts and confides in.. there is a reason for that, simply continue to love and support her.
As for the visitation over the holidays.. IMO it is important for her to see him during this time. I know it's hard and there are many reasons to want to communicate this to Drac.. but take it all into context.. she just had a rough weekend with him.. those feelings may pass in the coming weeks, and it being such a special 'family' time of year.. she really needs to be able to spend time with him.. it may even be good for him as well.
Pray about it, see where it leads you.. examine the whole context, and your motivations for wanting to tell Drac these things.. you'll come to your own answers.
James,
Thanks James!
Just to clarify, I don't have any problem with her being with him over that week. I, too, agree that she needs to spend time with him. Throughout this entire horrible year, I have always stood firm that she needs to spend time with him, whether I liked it or not.
The question is if I bother communicating her feelings to him or not. I lean towards Not, as I doubt he will take anything I say about it as truthful or even give it the consideration it is due. It may, in fact, make things worse.
I could see him 'oonfronting' DD about what she said to me,,,, which would harm my relationship with her by breakiing her trust. We aren't at a place where I could request him NOT to let her know I told him and then be able to trust him on that.
JMHO,,,, and I am open to listen to others,,,,,
I don't think it'll do any good to communicate this to Drac, you're in Plan B.. stay there. It's his job to maintain his relationship with his children, just as much as it was his job to maintain his marriage. His consequences are his alone.
DD6 is reacting naturally to a very difficult situation. You just keep being there for her, obviously you are the one she opens up to, you are the one she trusts and confides in.. there is a reason for that, simply continue to love and support her.
I couldn't answer any better than James does.
He's still a wayward, probably talking to some OW on the cell, getting his fix, and you are not going to talk him out of it...more fuel for his fire.
I was talk to her in terms of her Dad not being himself right now, going through a rough time in his life, and that you both will pray for him to get better.
I strongly encourage you to provide her with a phone so that she can call you at anytime for relief or if there is an emergency. Were you able to do that?
WOW BUGS!! what a rollercoater! i would have felt the same way...
((((BUGS))))
I also think that Mimi's idea of explaining the rough time and praying for him IS an EXCELLENT idea...that way SHE will feel like she has some control of the events right now...she can feel like she's doing something...
it gets better...slowly but surely!!
Thinking of you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I think you have to say something to him.
Because your daughter ASKED you to.
To ignore that will hurt her even more -- she needs to know you are her ally and will always look out for her.
So, because she asked you to tell him -- I suggest you and she together compose a communication to him. I think she needs to be involved because clearly he will confront her about it. So she needs to be prepared and confident in responding to him.
Praying for him is a really great idea too!
Lexxy:
Maybe I empathize too much with Bugs' daughters' position..having lived a childhood just like that...
I wish I had had a mother like Bugsy...who DID NOT INVOLVE me in her stuff with my father..
I wish my mother had protected me from him..
Instead I was on a lifelong mission TO FIX my parents' marriage..to FIX A DRUNK and involved in my mother's efforts to get him to change..to get him to listen...
Since I see DRAC as being like a drunk, an addict, I think that trying to reason with him while he's USING is a FUTILE EFFORT and can start her daughter to thinking that she can control what is out of her control..
Bugsy and her daughter may talk to him but talking to him will be USELESS at this point and she will see more of the ugly side of her father...
I don't think it's a good idea for her to get TRIANGLED IN..and I betcha part of this is BUG (the little one), trying TO FIX things and thinking that her MOM can fix things...
I think it's an important lesson to learn right away that all of this is in her father's hands and out of her control and out of her Mom's control...
I was about to say that I agree with Lexxy, but then I read Mimi's post, and I also recognize that this is something I struggle with constantly, so it's not like I have the answers.
I think Lexxy raises a good point. You need to at least talk with your daughter about her request. Maybe discuss the advantages and disadvantages and why you can't do it directly.
When I brought this up with Jennifer months and months ago (should I tell the SCQ that the kids are saying xxx?), she told me that if the kids wanted to, I should help them compose a letter to her. Pretty much what Lexxy suggested.
BUgs, I'm sorry for the heartache that this is bring you but I do want to let you know that you are helping others, like me, out here...
Should I run into this problem I can use your strenght, hope and experience to handle the sitch...
I'm happy that you all are posting!
OK. May be a good idea for Bugsy to help her daughter compose a letter. But, IMO, it would be GREAT to help BUG (the little one) learn that it may do NO GOOD...that her Dad is not himself and may not listen..so that the little one CLEARLY KNOWS that this is ALL about her FATHER...
I just think that until HE reaches his BOTTOM..if ever.. he is not going to step up to the plate and give PARENTING a high priority...
Because of being in the little one's position, I grew up believing that if I could EXPLAIN things and FIX things that I could TIE up the world into PRETTY LITTLE packages...
I FINALLY learned that I CAN ONLY CONTROL MYSELF...that no amount of explaining or educating or guilt-tripping will work...
BUGSY can control HER OWN CHOICES as a MOTHER..and be the BEST MOTHER that she can be to her daughter...
DRAC may never fully step up to the plate...regardless of what kind of letter that she and her daughter may write to him..
AGAIN..maybe I'm identifying to much with this..
It really hits CLOSE TO HOME...
And, of course, you know not to express anger at him about this...
Not saying that it will happen in your situation...
What happened with me as a little girl was I then stopped telling my mother stuff...
Daddy would say: "Don't tell your mother 'cause you know she'll get mad...while he poured the drink out of the vodka bottle in the front seat of the car...
Is that kinda like spending all day on the cellphone..maybe/maybe not...
Hey everyone!
Thanks so much for chiming in here, especially you, Mimi, as I know how this is so personal for you.
I have told DD several times over the last year that we can not 'make' Daddy do anything. We can tell him how we feel, and she should always tell us Both how she feels. It is Ok.
Recently, though, I have been very factual with her that I can not Fix everything to be the way she wants it, that her Daddy has choices and I can not 'make' him do anything
It is a hard line to walk.
My #1 goal - Do what is best for BabyBugs and DSS. Whatever that takes. Especially because Drac an not or will not do it for them right now.
So, I have a couple of days out of town to ponder this. I will probably do nothing until BabyBugs and I have some face time together.
It is Very important to me that she feel she can count on me to be her Ally,, but as I have for quite some time, I will not lie to her or give her false hopes in regards to Drac.
I have been doing a lot of deep breathing today!
I'm confident that you will do the best thing for BabyBugs. Everything you say about your frame of mind and what you have already told her and how you want things to be sounds exactly right to me.
You're right. It's a hard line to walk. There's nothing easy about any of this, but I know that you can do it.
((((Bugs))))
Where are you off to?
I'm confident that you will do the best thing for BabyBugs.
ME TOO!!
((((BUGSY))))
Thanks again everyone!
This has really been weighing on my mind, but at least now, I have some great insights that you all have shared and I feel like I'm on the right path.
And the votes of confidence REALLY help!
It seems that Drac is getting closer to hitting bottom, but isn't there yet. My only concern with that is helping keep the kids protected as much as I can from that fallout as he continues to spiral down. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that hitting bottom is needed and necessary for Drac,,,,,,,,,,,,,and I don't mean just in terms of the remote chance of us recovering our marriage some day. I mean in terms of his entire life, and for him to have ANY chance of being the good man and great father I know he can be. But the path to the bottom is his to walk alone.
Mimi, I found your post about your Dad telling you 'not to tell' hit home a bit, as I suspect this has happened in the past with Drac and both of the kids. It may not be so much now, but it has happened. The funny thing is, I don't ever ask the kids about him. I ask them about THEIR weekend, what fun THEY had, how THEY feel, but I don't ask about him. If they throw in a comment about him, I skim over it and back to them. I have a feeling he believes I question them, but I never have. oh, Scratch that Never. I can think of 2 occasions that I did. Times when we were still married and I KNEW he was lying to me and putting the kids in a VERY bad position.
That's been months ago.
Right now, it is pretty obvious that his most recent OW is probably an out of town person - thus all of the cell phone talk, his comment the other day about talking to 'a friend' on the phone about our sitch, and his planned out of town trip this coming weekend/next week. He's not running the kids all over creation on their weekends together to 'events' like before, they stay close to home and do things together. But there is most certainly a new OW.
I am just praying he gets back into counseling and/or hits bottom soon. His kids are suffering, as is his relationship with him. I know it is his to own, but it does break my heart. He's missing out on so much and he has NO clue whatsoever how GREAT things really could be. I feel bad, too, that I didn't do a better job during our M to realize how broken he is inside. So much hindsight on my part, but I know I could have/should have done better for him and for us.
Now, I am not wallowing in the past & believe me, I am not beating myself up. Just stating the facts for what they are, , acknowledging MY part in the past mistakes, and KNOWING that I can now DO better! So, really, it's a pat on the back to myself at the end of the day.
I have a BIG presentation tomorrow am. I am first up at our Group meeting in front of the BIG boss and a cast of other characters. It's the end of the year "I am so GREAT" presentation! I told a friend that I was coming here to tell the boss's how great I am,,,,, she said to have them call her and she'd tell them for me!! LOL!
SD, I am in Chicago and it's darn cold! Too windy, as always!
Once I get through the presentation, I will breath a bit easier. I am FIRST up in the morning! I am glad, , that way it is done and over with and I can relax! Wed is an entire morning of the Boss talking! Yikes!
Well, gotta go meet my guys for dinner. I am the only female at my 'level' on the team. The interesting thing is that they all call ME for help and guidance. Makes me feel good to be acknowledged and looked up to in my professional life!
Will ck back later.
Bugs:
You are awesome!
Sorry that Drac is SO BROKEN.
On to OW number 5 or is it 6?
You may have to stop following the divorce decree to the letter.
There is very little that you can do to help with DSS and his R with Drac. As Drac so painfully lets you know, he is doing you a "favor" by allowing you access. But, when you DO have access, do the best you can. You can't fix all the things that are wrong, only put the bandages on and send the boy back into the fight.
DD is wondering if she CAN put this back together. Flamingo and I watched the remake of "The Parent Trap" last week. They thought they could put it back together, and being Disney, they could. Life ain't a fairy tale. And Drac is happy in his. IF one day he was able to get the big head slap, then he just might fall out on to the floor at rock bottom. YOu don't have that long to wait.
So comfort DD. And make sure that she is available to Drac at the assigned times. But I expect that those times will start to get missed. Drac has other priorities and until he sorts them out, DD and DSS will take a back seat. A back seat that might exist until the kids are in college.
It's important that both kids have a relationship with father. But it MORE important that HE has a relationship with them.
And that ain't happening right now.
Mimi has made some excellent points. DD can not fix this, and you can NOT enlist DD and/or DSS to help fix Drac.
Your plan B has firmed up, hasn't it? Drac is EVEN farther away, and that works better doesn't it.
Knock thier socks off tommorrow. You KNOW you can.
LG
AH, wishing you well on the great presentation...I'm sure that you will be all out Angel style! I have plenty of faith in that one!
It's so hard trying to do the "right" thing huh? That highest road...sometimes I just have to HAVE a little time to think, well, I COULD DO THIS and I COULD do that...you know the wanting to get back but I know it doesn't help anyone, especially me...I can STILL DREAM.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You're awesome! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Morning all!
Yep, up early going over my presentation!
LG, I was wondering when you might be stopping by! Your comment about the kids taking the back seat really got me to thinking. It reminded me of that song, Cats in the Cradle. "When you coming home Dad? I don't know when, but we'll get together then, son. You know we'll have a good time,,,,, THEN".
Problem is that Drac 'thinks' he's there and they have 'fun' together. He doesn't get that it's HIS fun, not the kids. It's no wonder that DSS doesn't have activities HE really likes to do because all of his life, it's been about what DRAC wants to do and DSS 'gets' to go along. Don't get me wrong, it's not like the kids go places and have a horrible time, I know they DO have fun with Daddy. But 99% of the time, the activity is based on what Drac likes to do and for the last year, 90% of the time, it's been based around an OW.
Nope, I can't fix him. Kids can't fix him. It's up to him & God. I just hope when he's ready to receive that slap on the head it doesn't totally take him OUT!! Lol! The psi required to get through that stubborn head of his will certainly take him some time to recover from!
In the meantime, Bugs will be residing on the dark side of Pluto. Watching over the kids and living the good life. Blessings are too great for me not to! High road will continue to be difficult from time to time,,,, I know that. But, I am so much better equipped to deal with that than ever before. Thanks all,,,, you all have helped that a great deal!!
It is nice to know that when that high road gets slick and slippery, I have you all here to help me navigate around or THROUGH those spots! And even to help tow me out of the ditch when necessary.
BTW - 4 inches of snow here today. Yikes!
Ok, that's all of the Drac talk for today. It's all Bugs all day today!! Off for one more run through on the presentation!
Have a great day, all!
Go Goddess!!! Have an awesome day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You rocked the presentation, right?
Bugs:
You are making me miss my good ol' state. I grew up in chicago. Took me 5 years to loose the accent from there. Now I live in PA. Weather is similar. We are expecting 3-6 inches over night.
You are doing such a great job. It really shows how god is shining through you.
I sat in the tub thinking tonight. I have more court hearings coming up and I have to pay the attorney, I have no savings and live pay to pay. Infact, one of the checks I am to get for my DD does not even come to me. They won't change it out of WS name. God will handle it though.
I pictured myself dragging my feet through the sand, and I asked God for help and it was only then that I saw only his footprints. God is handling me.
I don't know about you, but I have found that I am ministering to more and more people, and helping others.
My DD wants to help get us together as well. But at the same time she wants nothing to do with WS. She knows that God is not in his heart, and she said she doesn't want around Satan. She always has me pray at night for the OW as well. She always says "She's a sinner to mommy, we need to pray for her salvation." She is so right. That's what we are focused on. Praying for his and her salvation.
I was to the point I wanted to give up again. So I started reading more and praying more, and asking God to show me and tell me if I should wait, or move on. My fortune cookie the day I prayed said, "It's not the end yet. Let's stay with it." So I dated it, and will put it in my journal later on. I want to laugh about this years from now when I snuggle with my WS.
We learned that there is a line for reconciliation. Most couples do not reach that line at the same time. He is moving closer to that line, watch that you don't move to far away. Good luck,
You are in my prayers.
Morning!
Well, the presentation went OK. I was first up in front of 2 new boss's. I guess you could say I 'took one for the team', in the respect that I was grilled about my work for over an hour. Everyone behind me got off a bit lighter due to time constraints,,,,, we were each only scheduled for 30 minutes. Afterwards, everyone told me that I did very well. I was professional, well prepared, and handled the PRESSURE extremely well. Come to think about it, I didn't stutter or even break out in a sweat! So, I still have a job and for that I am happy.
We ended up going until well after 5 and then had a group dinner. The 'work' conversation and being 'put on the spot' continued throughout dinner, so it wasn't very relaxing! Yuck! We have 4 hours of training this am and then off to the airport. I am praying the lake effect snow has slowed down by then and that my flight is not delayed! I am ready to go home.
Drac sent an email late yesterday saying he was going to a candlelight remembrance for the daughter of his friend R who passed away 3 years ago, he listed the time & said he probably wouldn't be able to answer his phone, so could I tell BabyBugs he'd just see her when he picks her up on Wed.
When I talked to BabyBugs and Mom later, seems that he'd already told BabyBugs about it the night before. So, what the purpose of emailing me about it was, who knows? Again, it's not necessary for me to know what he is doing specifically and in this case, it wasn't necessary at all, was it? I did get a vm from DSS last night. I missed his call because we were at dinner. I think he'd JUST gotten my message from the day before. I will definitely reach him today after school.
INeed, thanks for the support. I spend time every day reading the Word. It soothes my soul and helps me keep Drac where he belongs - in His hands!
Gotta run, we are starting early today!! yippee!
JMHO, but my program teachs me that if I say something more than once I'm trying to manipulate the sitch...
but I don't know...it's a rule that I try to stick too...not repeating myself...
Glad the presentation was ok, you still have your job, and all went well...
Have a great day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Hey Rin!
I think Drac is most certainly trying to manipulate the sitch. Namely, doing whatever he thinks might make him Look good from the outside while he continues to be an addict who is concerned only with himself.
The more I see it, the more it seems sad. I am sad he fails to see any of it or to take any responsibilty for his past or current actions and the effect on others. Word is getting around, though, both thru the family and at work.
Drac fails to take responsibility and likes to blame everyone else for everything.
Heck why am I sitting here writing about him? I have better things to spend my time on -- even if it's the Maury Povich show on the tv here at the airport! LOL!
I think I will just sit here and pray my flight goes out on time!!
I think Drac is most certainly trying to manipulate the sitch. Namely, doing whatever he thinks might make him Look good from the outside while he continues to be an addict who is concerned only with himself.
The more I see it, the more it seems sad. I am sad he fails to see any of it or to take any responsibilty for his past or current actions and the effect on others. Word is getting around, though, both thru the family and at work.
Drac fails to take responsibility and likes to blame everyone else for everything.
Just replace Drac with POWS and you've got my STBX...
And IT IS A SHAME AND VERY DISHEARTING...
oh, well!
busy day for me! I'm tired already! LOL and I still ahve a meeting to go to tonight! Think I'm going to try to get to bed early!
Bugsy:
I just wanted to talk about this....
"When I talked to BabyBugs and Mom later, seems that he'd already told BabyBugs about it the night before. So, what the purpose of emailing me about it was, who knows? "
Well... HE was TRULY horrible when your nephew died. Did nothing. Soooo, this plan makes him LOOK GOOD!
Can't you SEE the contrast? Your supposed to admire the new, reformed Drac.
And maybe, somewhere, you could.
Except for the pointy teeth and pale skin. HE's still just Drac.
And he's probably visiting a new HO out of town and wanted to cover it by using this "Other" thing that he SHOULD be doing. Gets MIL/someone to watch the kids.
HE's really turning into a PUTZ.
Glad you WOWED them. Sorry they used you as the punching bag to lighten the load on everyone else....
NOTE TO FILE: Get BUGS Scheduled for the SECOND Meeting next YEAR! DON'T be first! They get shot first and the MOST!
And as for the song? Huge trigger for me, for other, non-related to the A issues.....
LG
Oh, LG...sorry to hear about that trigger man...
I second that motion when the time comes to place BUGS...(scribbling on paper)
One of these days we'll be in Chris's position and not even notice...
how awesome would that be? :grinning from ear to ear:
Hey LG!
Ok, question back to you - I'm supposed to notice the contrast?
WHY?
In the scheme of his life, which is "NONE OF MY BUSINESS" WHY am I supposed to Know or Notice anything when it comes to him?
He's been a PUTZ for quite some time now. Sorry to say, but it is what it is.
Thanks for the empathy on the presentation. Actually, I feel pretty good to have been the one to weather this first storm. I am pretty sure I earned the admiration of my peers AND of both the boss's, so it was a small price to pay.
HOWEVER, Note to Self is Certainly noted in BIG LETTERS for next time! LOL!
You know, I had a feeling that song would mean something to you, but I am sorry it was in any way a negative trigger. I so admire your R with your DS! It is so obvious how much you love & value him as your son,, as a person.
Rin,
Yep, one of these days I will be here telling a story JUST like Chris's!! I have NO doubt about it, that we BOTH will !!
Morning, all!
Seems my internal 4:30am alarm clock just won't shut off until I get up,,so here I am.
DD came home aa few minutes late last night. Probably as a "punishment" for me - seems Mom misunderstood what I told her about the night before and she didn't bother to have DD even try to call Drac. Oh well, whatever.
DD has a Christmas program at the local mall next weekend. A note came home while I was out of town. I will send to Drac today, as it is on his weekend. It's Sun afternoon, so he 'could' very easily make it work for their schedule. Will he? Who knows?
DD and I talked about it. As soon as I told her it was on Daddy's weekend, she teared up and started to cry. God in heaven, it broke my heart! Her FIRST concern was that if she went, that I wouldn't be there because I don't want to see Drac. So, I fixed that right away.
I explained to her that no matter WHERE she is or WHAT she is doing - I will be there No Matter What! We talked for a while about things - as to why I don't want to see Drac these days. I asked her why she thought that was. I explained that it's not because I am *mad*.
We talked about the Promises you make when you get married mean and how they are promises to each other and promises to God. How it is important to always keep your promises. Daddy made some very bad decisions and broke his promises and that it hurt me very much. The biggest reason I don't want to see Daddy is that I don't want to be around someone who breaks their promises to me. But, that I pray for Daddy to get better about being honest, truthful, and a good promise keeper because deep down he is a good man and that I still love the person he is deep down.
There was a lot more, but that gives you the overall flavor of what I tried to make the message about. She let me know when she'd had enough 'talk' and I tried not to make it a big heavy discussion.
We did talk just a bit about her sharing her feelings with Drac. I'm just going to continue to encourage her to do it, but am not forcing the issue.
We enjoyed the rest of the evening and I snuggled with her while she went to sleep. She did say that she was "mad". I said, "Well, that's OK. We all get mad sometimes. What are you mad about?"
She said she is mad at Daddy for what he's done. She asked me if I wanted to get a divorce. I told her no, I didn't want it, but it's OK to be mad at me, too. We talked about being mad sometimes because of what people 'do', but that you can be mad at someone for a while (especially people in your family), but that at the same time, you still Love them, even if you get mad sometimes.
I think she 'gets' it and is really working through that right now. Holidays are a trigger for her, too! I am sure she feels the pain of not having an in tact family. She even shared some of that with my Mom while I was gone - - about being mad at Drac. So, I'll be keeping a close eye out on her and going straight to counseling if it looks like it is warranted in any way. Personally, I think it will be if she continues to talk about it much at all. She needs a neutral third party person to help her - so that she doesn't have to worry about hurting my feelings or even Drac's. Not that I care so much about HIS feelings, but I care about HERS. SHE doesn't share with him because she doesn't want to hurt HIS feelings,,,so that is about HER in my eyes, not about him.
Does that make sense??
Hey FCF, thanks for the hugs!
Triggered a while ago,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I heard that Drac's trip this weekend, going into next week is to Cancun!
That is where we went for our honeymoon.
Hurts.
Plus, why isn't he taking the time off while the kids are off school? He could take them both on a trip!
Ooops,,, forgot the focus of life is DRAC and his Addictions.
What was I thinking asking about him possibly putting the kids first?! ?
Ahhh.. I'm so with you and Rin on the wayward taking responsibility issues... ahh.... and yeah, I like Chrinser's approach to that kind of thing.. it's healthy.. and funny.. I dig that.
Glad to hear your trip went well, and that you're back home safe. Those conversations with the kids are some of the hardest ones I think we'll ever have with another person..
I hate that divorce does this to families.. especially to kids.. that they are the true victims and 'do the time' for the selfish crimes committed by an adult who is supposed to love and protect them.
Keep your chin up bugs... Babybugs is watching and learning how to be a strong woman from you... can't think of a better example for her.
Seems my internal 4:30am alarm clock just won't shut off until I get up
Do you remember the old pink panther cartoon where he reaches into the dresser and pulls out a hammer and smashes the clock every time it goes off? I think it was the one with the cuckoo clock. A classic.
Anyway, so sorry that you're having to have these conversations with BabyBugs. I mean, they're necessary, and you're doing them right, but they hurt. And you have to suck in some of your own feelings in order to do what's best for her.
(((Bugs)))
You did a great job with DD Bugs. You are a great Mom.
I am HONESTLY thankful for the OPPORTUNITY to experience knowing a MOTHER like you, Bugsy.
You are such A BLESSING to your DAUGHTER!!
It gives me the chills to think of how this will be carried on into further generations.... How this will affect BabyBugs' love and care of her own children..
You are AMAZING!!
What a MAJOR, MAJOR LOSS for DRAC...
Thanks to each and every one of you!
I know we all do the best we can for our kids, knowing that we are all far from perfect - but to hear other people whose opinions I respect give me such compliments,,, just blows me away! I am so thankful for all of you!
It's Thursday, so had to get the every other week TM question from Drac as to what time DD has dance tonight, as it's his night to take her.
Then had to get another asking where her shoes are - - Same place as every other time.
Just got a 3rd, asking me if I am "OK to pick her up tonight with the weather getting bad?"
A real simple answer - Yes.
What I didn't say was that even if *I* am not ok with going to get her, I have LOTS of friends and family that will help me. His help is not welcome or required at this time.
I did have to send him info on her latchkey Christmas program today - I am glad he immediately replied that "of course" he will take her. As much as I hate that we will BOTH be there,,,,I am glad for DD. It will make HER happy and that is all that matters.
Gotta run. Have to walk the Beau boy in the sleet/snow and then slip/slide my way to get DD from dance!
Thanks again everyone for your support. I think you know how much it helps!!
4th TM tonight - - asking "home safe?"
WTF?
His help is not welcome or required at this time.
See that's exactly how I felt tonight with POWS...I did need or want anything from that store...that was strickly an opportunity for the boys to get their dad something...
I would have to be dieing b/f I asked him for help with something...my car, the house, the kids, anything...
I feel like you do I have OP I can ask! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When I needed him he WASN'T there and I had to make it on my own, I can certainly do it now...
Bugs:
He's trying to put himself back in control. He hates the fact that you took it from him. He has a need to know what you are doing or where. That's why the Home safe ? He doesn't care that you are safe, all he cares about right now is are you home.
That's like his trip. He wants to let you know where he's going and without the kids to kindof let you know that he's carefree again and can do what he pleases.
I pray that he will hit rock bottom, and that his eyes will be opened. God is using you greatly and has blessed you tremendously. Of course, it says in the bible that he will bless the ones that were broken abundently, and that brokenness always leads to a blessing.
You are being led down a path that leads to nothing but a cup full of blessings. God bless you, you are a special angel.
INeed,
Thanks for the support. I really have no idea why Drac does what he does and I haven't for a long, long time. The good news is that I do think about it much less as time goes by, but every now and then it really does cross my mind as WTF? Thanks for the continued prayers!! They mean so much!
Rin,
When I needed him he WASN'T there and I had to make it on my own, I can certainly do it now...
This was EXACTLY my thought when I got those 2 TMs last night. All last winter he certainly wasn't so worried when he was so busy taking care of himself and the HO. Why Now??
He doesn't seem to realize that I got by this last year with virtually NO help from from. WHY in the world would it be necessary, desired, or welcome NOW??
It also crossed my mind that perhaps, for an unrecognized split second Drac realized that *I* am now the 'single mother' having to do for herself and her child,,,,,like he pointed out to me about the Ho last year??
I really don't think he 'gets' that yet, but it may have been an undeveloped/unconscious part of that thought process leading to the TMs last night.
Doesn't matter in the scheme of my life, so am moving on from that.
Thanks for the reminder, SD, about staying dark. I had luckily given myself that reminder last night, but am glad you have my back to make sure!
Well, going to catch the news to make sure DD has school and check out road conditions. I have to go get DSS later today for the weekend.
Can I admit I was hoping for a whopping storm tomorrow to ground the planes and ruin Drac's trip?? Is that wrong?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
LOL..No, I don't think that's wrong...we have to dream sometimes...LOL
It also crossed my mind that perhaps, for an unrecognized split second Drac realized that *I* am now the 'single mother' having to do for herself and her child,,,,,like he pointed out to me about the Ho last year??
Is there a stigma associated with this that I'm just not paying attention too? The phrase appears to be a negative...like "Oh, the world is so tragic...the single mom is helpless and needs to be rescued!
I personally don't see it as a negative or weakness...I see it as a strenght...perhaps something that HE IS uncomfortable with...admires...not just him...
The fact that I'm a single mom and can handle my kids, work, a house, bills, a dog, my friends, and MY LIFE...i'm proud of...I'm proud that I'm not taking care of ANOTHER "CHILD!"
To I think that my kids are going to look back and be proud of me for raising them on my own, no matter how long that is? HECK YEAH! My wish for them: they find a "strong" woman too...one who offers as much to them as they offer to her...
To find another lighthouse!!!
There's no stigma in my book and I sure don't want a "I'm so sorry!" B/c I'm not! That was my choice and I'm darn proud of what "I" have done with my choice!
how about you?
Bugs:
It might be time for a new cellphone number.
The "Home Safe?" TM?
It can be considered control. It's probably just concern. He's allowed to be concerned about you, you know.
However, like LilSis, you do not want him to be concerned about you anymore, because he has expressed his lack of concern for you by finding someone else and than divorcing you.
So either have to go darker, for your own safety, or you have that lunch with him we talked about and then provide him with the revised Plan B after D letter. And then see what happens.
For as horrible all this was, YOU still could get back with Drac. Theres something about HIM that just makes him right for you.
And he KNOWS it. Because he feels the same about you. But unlike Drac, you have learned thru MB to recognize what is real, and what is "feelings"
Your feet are solid on the ground. Drac;s could be, for now. But later, they go to quicksand. And until he fixes THAT, you really do not want him.
AND that fix is up to him.
You have been doing great. It is unfortunate that you have to react to his "feelings"
LG
Rin,
Sorry I wasn't more clear in my post about the 'single mom' comment.
Last year when the 'friendship' with the Ho started, she worked for Drac. One of his first lame excuses when he was busted spending time with her and delivering a dozen roses to her HOUSE, he told me that he felt sorry for her because she was about to lose her job at their company, he wanted to do something 'nice' for her to help cheer her up, he was trying to keep her from losing her job because after all, "She's a single Mom and it's SO hard on her."
It was about Drac being her knight in shining armor,,,,, playing the HERO for her. He felt SO BAD for her and wanted to help HER by putting ME into the exact same life situation as he was quoting as a reason for his relationship for her.
See the irony? My point is that HE didn't see it at all and I am fairly certain that he still Doesn't!
That was what I was talking about. It has nothing to do with how *I* view my role or life as a single mother. I know I am perfectly capable of taking care of myself and my kids.
YES!! I, too, feel an Incredible amount of Pride, Joy, Strength, etc in handling life on my own for us. Every one of us that is working through all of this now as single Parents should feel that way, (want to be sure that I recognize we have lots of great single dads here, too!)
Certain things Drac said over this last year have been replaying in my brain these last few days. Not sure why that it is, but key things just keep popping up, like the above. Or the story he told me about the dry cleaning lady trying to fix him up with her daughter. Or the Memorial Day weekend fiasco where he informed me how *I* 'cost him his relationship". The 'single mom' and the 'cost him his relationship' comments are on some kind of consistent loop in my head this week.
I guess I am still hoping that he'll feel that thwack on the head to shake his brain so that he will see those hurtful, crazy comments for what they were, admit that he was nuts, acknowledge the pain & damage,,,,,,,,, you all know what I'm talking about.
Perhaps the fact that the loops come back from time to time and I find myself still hoping against hope that he'll do the above DOES accomplish one thing that's not all bad. It tells me I'm not totally 'done' yet. I'm not stuck spinning my wheels over it all, just waiting patiently for it to happen - - I have my life. It's a good life. Yet Drac continues to own a place in my heart. It's ok for now.
Quick,,,, someone name one of those annoying, catchy songs so that THAT can get stuck in my head instead of the Drac Crap!!!
Hey LG!
You are right, he does get to be concerned about me if he wants.
Most likely he told himself, and it is probably true, that he sent those messages because of his concern about DD and it just 'happened' to also involve me.
Further, I think you are right in that he operates on his 'feelings' at the moment and they change frequently as well as quickly. Not a method of operation for me to be involved in, that's for sure.
I had pretty much the same discussion with my Mom about it this morning. How one minute he's angry/harsh/cruel, and the next minute he's caring/concerned/offering to 'help' and there's no road map for me to follow to know which way he's going at any given moment. As you say, he has to fix himself and get on solid ground.
In the meantime, I really am ok. Bumps in the road, especially during this time of year, are what I expected. I feel good, really. For now, I'm going to hold the lunch/letter option off for a while. It's not something I want to do right now. Can't explain why - - perhaps this is something for me to ponder/analyze/pray about. I'll get back to you on that subject,,,,,,
Thanks for checking in.
BTW - Great news on DSS's season!!!
Bugs:
There is nothing to consider.
You can do the lunch. Or not.
Doing the lunch, puts it out on the table. There it is. Pick it up, look it over, and make a choice, Drac.
There is a way back. But that road closes. And not just for the winter. It closes forever.
You have a new house.
You have a life seperate and away from anything that Drac would understand.
You are doing well with DD and even DSS.
Your reputation at the company grows, and it even is eclipising Drac's.
Your standing proudly, and striding purposefully in the direction of your dreams, (to paraphase somebody important). And you can't stop for Drac anymore.
The bus will make one stop. He can get on, or not. You will NEED to offer him that choice.
Otherwise, you slowly but surely will slide into co-parenthood, and alleieviate (sp?) all of Drac's guilt. See, we can be friends.
Decide which way you want to go.
Here are some lyrics for you:
Don't Stop Believing Maybe that will break the cycle.
LG
BTW: "South Detroit" is in Canada!
At the Copa, Copa Cabana . . .
More thoughts later.
I don't like it that you don't have an intermediary and that he can reach you at will. I agree with the need to change your number some way to make it clear to him that HE CANNOT EMAIL or get in contact with you UNLESS THERE IS AN EMERGENCY!!!
Then you are not in PLAN B and there's a chance that you will eventually grow to hate him..
AND he will remain COMFORTABLE with this situation..
Drac: "I'm a good guy; I tried to help her"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Can I admit I was hoping for a whopping storm tomorrow to ground the planes and ruin Drac's trip?? Is that wrong?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
There may not be a storm where you are but the forecast for Cancun next week is WET: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Dec 8 AM Showers
Dec 9 Scattered Showers
Dec 10 Scattered Showers
Dec 11 Scattered Showers
Dec 12 Scattered Showers
Dec 13 Scattered Showers
Dec 14 Scattered Showers
Relating to you here...
WH tried to establish a co-parenting relationship via email this week and I just ignored it.
This morning, as we were driving in to school and the roads were a little slushy, DS12 asks, "Have you had the tires rotated?"
I laughed. "No, I haven't. Am I supposed to? I don't even know about that."
DS12: You should do it.
Me: Really? Did Dad ask about it or something?
DS12: Yeah. You should do it every 6,000 miles.
Me: Huh. I had no idea. I just get the oil changed. I don't know much about the other stuff. Plus it's hard to find time to do things where you have to wait around.
...so there you see...WH is also "looking out" for me. What a guy! It must just be in their nature to try to maintain that "good guy" facade, nevermind how creepy they act in hundreds of other ways.
Don't fall for it. Get darker.
Most of my thoughts LG covered very well.
I don't hear you being Done, Bugs. Yes, you are divorced, but so what? It doesn't have to mean that it's over.
I hear you doing very well living your life. You have your ups and downs. You are productive at work, you have fun, you do a great job with the kid(s).
I hear you trying not to dwell on Drac, and I think you do a good job of not letting him affect your day-to-day activities. But I hear you thinking about him and wondering about him, and it's because you're not Done. Personally, I think that's good, because I don't think it's Over for you yet (standard SDG disclaimer: What the ****** do I know?). I just think Drac hasn't fallen far enough yet.
So. What should you do? Plan B. Preserve it for as long as you feel like preserving it. Protect yourself.
Dark.
There's still too much SUNSHINE peeking through...
Morning, all!
Yesterday I wrote out 4 or 5 different posts and scrapped them all. I finally had one but lost it when I tried to post -- - things were too busy here on the site!
I kept writing all kinds of 'stuff', but every time I finished and read it, something (someone) kept telling me that I wasn't being completely truthful,,, I wasn't really facing the reality.
LG, I know that the letter lunch is a do or don't do choice. My comment about 'pondering' was in reference to my questioning "When". I was thinking about the reasons I was giving myself for not just doing it.
Bottom line truth - I am not ready to sit facing him, pointing to the still open door, and having him say, "My goodness Bugs, you are an intelligent woman. It's obvious that I have already made my choice. I DIVORCED you. I don't want you, not now, not Ever."
That's it. Plan and simple.
But, you know what? This weekend is for my kids and me to enjoy. I want to do all I can not to think about him being on his tropical vacation with his ho.
Soooo,,,,, yesterday I picked up DD early from latchkey. We went together to pick up DSS. He was at the Aunt's house. For whatever reason, he's allowed to be home alone any time EXCEPT when I am coming to pick him up.
So, we stopped for a snack, got gas, and started on our way home. On the way, there is a beautiful Shrine that does a fantastic holiday light display that I've wanted to go see for years, as I haven't been since I was a child. So we went. DD wasn't excited, but asked if it was something *I* wanted to do. When I told her, YES, I want to do it very much, she said, "OK, Mommy. Let's do it since it's something you want to do"
They had a GREAT time. We drove through some beautiful lights. Stopped and rode a camel! Went to the exotic petting zoo. Saw a laser show that told the story of the birth of our Savior. DSS thought that was SO COOL! One of the usher's there helped keep DSS occupied while we waited for the show to start. He even gave him an "assignment", that after the show he had to come back and tell him what l.a.s.e.r. really stands for.
It was perfect! DSS loves that kind of stuff. So, after the show, we stopped and spoke w/him. DSS did remember and liked showing off a bit. We even got to meet the man that designed the entire show! He spoke w/DSS about how 30 or so years ago, a man came to his school and gave a demo on lasers,,,,,,,,which of course were a lot different then. He was fascinated by it and 'look where he is today'. He told DSS to find something he Loves to do in life. It was VERY cool, as this is something I talk to DSS about frequently.
We then went over to another building, saw a choir sing, and had dinner in the restaurant. It worked out perfectly because the kids could each talk to Drac on the phone while I was up at the buffet. I didn't have to hear a word of conversation. We then visited the gift shop and finished up driving through the light display. They tell the story of Christ's birth throughout the drive, all done in lights. It is VERY cool.
They don't charge, but you can give a donation at the end that goes towards helping their ministry. I gave enough so that each of the kids was able to get a stuffed camel. I know none of us will forget the fun time we had. Even DSS was talking about how we are going to go there again next year, and the year after that, and the year after that!!
I felt very Blessed!
Today DSS is going to help with more outside lights, we'll finish decorating the tree, and then are going to make some candy.
So,,,,,,,,,,guess I'd better get in the shower.
Thanks everyone for helping out. I'll be having fun on the dark side of Pluto,,,,,'at the Coba, Coba Cabanna,,,,,,,I won't stop believing!!"
We had a GREAT day today. It's cold, raining, freezing rain.
Did laundry, made tents in the living room, decorated the tree, made cookies, made paper snowflakes, watched Christmas movies, had a special 'theater' movie in my bedroom with soda & popcorn and had tons of fun.
Kids just tried to call Drac and got a message in Spanish, then it cut off, so unfortunately, his plane made it to Mexico. Somehow I doubt we'll hear from him. I know he didn't leave any contact information other than his cell phone with me, and I doubt he left it with any other family member either. To heck with everyone here if there is an emergency. UGH!
Well, ya know what? He may be warm on the outside, but he's missing what's most important - that feeling of warmth, love & family on the inside. I would not trade ONE single second of the day I had today with the kids for a week in Mexico with someone I just met.
So, off to take baths and watch more Christmas movies. It really has been a great day!!
I'm watching "The Grinch" right now- perhaps his heart is two sizes too small.;)
Hey Kayla!
I LOVE the Grinch!!! I memorized it for a poetry class in 8th grade and can still quote the entire thing!
Surprise Surprise - TM from Drac that he can get calls but can't call out. So, DD is downstairs talking to him now.
I wanna puke.
{{{Bugs}}}
Watch out for that freezing rain. Bad stuff.
We have rain here today. For us, this counts as a "storm."
I so ADMIRE you, Bugsy!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
Whenever this happens it seems like they all do the same thing. My WS helped out my best friend and her children as she went thru a nasty divorce. She worked 2 jobs and raissed chickens, so he would help by mowing the lawn and taking her shopping. I was the last to know about the two of them, and now since I found out, she can't be bothered to call me or anything anymore. I didn't do anything...heck I even forgive her.
As far as the understanding why they did it, you know why. It tells us in Romans 8, that they do the things they don't want to do and they don't do the things they want to do because they are not in control of their lives, but that Satan is.
I loved the sponge bob episode where plankton got in spongebob's brain and controlled his every move. THat's how I've explained it to my daughter. I've explained to her that the daddy she and I both love is still there, but he's hidden way deep down inside, and we just have to keep praying that Jesus will free him from the prison so that he might have control of his life again, and choose to follow God.
You've been thru what I believe was the worst, but until your ex truly experiences brokenness then he won't be able to experience the blessing, and until he chooses to get on the path to righteousness then he'll walk further away from you.
The divorce may be what it took for him to realize what he had in you. It became a final piece. You need to decide now if he does come back, are you ready ??? Has God prepared you enough and have you learned enough to be able to show him how the two of you can make a happy marriage with God as your foundation ? If not, you have hope, so work on it.
Let your children know that no matter what, you can't run from God. Teach them the stories of Jonah, and how he tried to run, and how God helped him.
Continue to ask God for his guidance, and a light for the path you are to follow, and most importantly, don't forget to keep Drac in your prayers, for salvation, for a hedge of protection. The more you pray using scriptures the more of a force you will feel pushing on you and him. Remember, this is a spiritual battle, and the only way it can be won is thru God's words and with GOD and By GOD !!
In the meantime, make sure that you stress the true meaning of Christmas. Don't shop at stores where they cant say merry christmas, Pagans don't need our money, what we need is to be able to serve our God Given Purpose, which is to
help God fulfil his will, by bringing others to him so that none should perish, but have ever lasting life.
Spread some holiday love during this blessed season, and teach the children that they can do it as well.
God bless, have a great night.
Hi BUGS, just popping in...
Letting you know that I'm still reading here... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Hi everyone!
Thanks for stopping by!! Woke to more rain today - feezing off & on. I'll have to time DSS's return home carefully today due to the weather. The good part is that I can coordinate with FIL which will be easy vs if Drac were home.
We finished up the movie day with The Santa Clause 2. DSS asked me why at one point the DAD had to do community service because of what his son did. Gave me the perfect chance to explain about PARENTAL responsibility. Even better, the son in the movie is about DSS's age,,, perfect! I didn't slam Drac, but kept it generic enough while specific enough that I am sure DSS got it. Atleast I 'HOPE' so!
Not sure what we're going to do today. Maybe wrap some presents.
Oh, here's Beau,,,,doing the pee pee dance. I'll ck back later!
I'm hoping the weather in Cancun is as lousy as the earlier poster wrote --
I spent a vacation down there, and the first day or so was lovely, and then wham, monsoon season! No cable TV, the hotel lobby didn't have a roof (normally it wasn't necessary) and we couldn't swim or sightsee.
Please, please, please, rain in Cancun.
Thanks, Bellevue!
I did ck the weather channel website - it says scattered showers. That could mean anything from a sprinkle to a miserable day down there.
I'll just enjoy the fact that the UV index is only a 3,,,,,,,which means even if it isn't raining, it's not the perfect tropical weather! Of course I am trying not to think about them not caring about the weather and being occupied with 'indoor' activites - YUCK!
Geez, I gotta get busy doing something to get my mind occupied!
LOL...I wish I had some colder weather to be working in...82 degrees!!!
I'm sweating IN the house! Trying to prepare for tomorrow, I want this lady to see EVRYTHING that's wrong with this house!!! LOL
Hey Rin!
Can't believe it's so warm there! All of that moisture is being swept my way and turning into freezing rain & ice!
Well, yesterday afternoon I sat down with DSS's backpack and I really almost TOTALLY lost it!
He & Drac have literally done NOTHING to help him get caught up on the old stuff and DSS played me the entire weekend on all of it - - current & old.
We sat down and went through EVERY piece of paper in the backpack. I had him doing homework for 3 hours straight and we still didn't get a dent in the old work!
He had a report from English and Math showing what assignments he is missing. He JUST got the report on FRIDAY?!?!? WTF?!
I asked him if Drac was sitting down with him every night. He said yes. I asked when was the last night they went through things,,,,, he couldn't remember. I asked what they go over. Drac looks at his 'planner'. That's it. He doesn't match what is in the planner to what papers DSS has completed.
But, then again, how could he? I know *I* could not tell from what DSS had written in there what work needed to be done, nor when it was due. I showed DSS EXACTLY how the planner should be filled out. The way he'd been doing it didn't accomplish anything if even HE could not read it and show me what needed to be done. All they were doing was 'checking off a box' so that each of them (he & Drac) could say they 'did' something but it wasn't helping HIM (DSS) pass anything.
I went through the math report and took his packet of assignments and HIGHLIGHTED every problem that he needs to complete. It was virtually the ENTIRE packet,,,,,over hundred problems to be completed.
I WAS SO upset. Cried again in my frustration. I sat down and tried to write a letter to Drac about it, but ended up throwing them all in the trash. What's the point?
I DID, however, call FIL when we were on our way and told him I needed to talk to him. He was meeting me at Drac's house, so I didn't want there to be an issue with me going inside. He said no problem.
I went through everything with FIL, explaining everything the Best that I could -- - remember, FIL can't read, so it's not like I could show him and have him read it. Nevertheless, FIL understands VERY well what is going on. I told him, "Drac is FAILING his son!" I don't know what, if anything, FIL can do, but he has a better chance than I to do something.
We agreed that the video games are a problem. DSS comes home from school and that is what he does until Drac gets home at whatever time (7 or 8pm) If all Drac is doing is looking at the planner and accepting his word that the work is done, then nothing is getting done.
We were leaving my house to take him to FIL, and DSS asked about his GameBoy. I told him I'd take care of it. I know it was wrong, but my reply was "If your Dad doesn't have sense enough to keep it away from you when he should, then I KNOW your Grandpa will". I was just SO frustrated. DSS KNEW he had work due on Monday, but waited for ME to get it out for him to do,,,,,,,,,,,hoping I am sure, that I wouldn't get it out.
I told DSS that he & Drac have to work together on this and that neither one of them is doing their job. I probably shouldn't have gone there or said what I did - -- which is that no, Drac is NOT doing his job as your dad. It's his job to make sure YOU do your job and he is to know everything and make sure YOU do it.
There are assignments missing from AFTER the time that Drac has said that he'd be checking the work. Heck, if DSS JUST got the list of missing work, WTF has Drac been doing?
DSS says, "well, it's ok, I'm in tutoring now". I explained to him that tutoring is NOT enough. It's not going to get him where he needs to be because he is SO far behind.
And with all of this, WHERE is Drac??????????
Boy, am I glad I don't know what resort he is staying in AND there weren't any convenient flights to Mexico!!
Who has the Silver Shovel????? Wood Chipper???? 7 iron??? Anything????????????
((((Bugs))))
I can imagine how difficult and frustrating this all must be for you.
I too know how it feels to be the parent that -cares- more about even a child who is not our blood.. but is ours in our hearts.
It's even more frustrating when you compound the fact that as angry as you are with Drac.. you know in the back of your mind that it's pretty much by his 'grace' that you have a relationship at all with DSS..
I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation.. I'll be keeping you in my prayers throughout.
As for my DSD.. I'm almost afraid of what is going to happen when WW gets out of CoWorker's house and on her own.. I'm getting the impression that Wonderboy and CoWorker have been the ones pushing DSD on her homework..
I worry for her once that's gone.. I worry for DS once he starts school.. that's a few years from now though.. but still. I remember how woefully unprepared DSD was for school when she started.. WW and I met -very- shortly before her 4th birthday... DS's is coming up in February.
Bugs:
Bugs:
Bugs:
Who's fault is this?
A 13 year old who been abandoned by his birth mother, and then by his father?
A school system that doesn't really care, and DSS will get passed anyway?
The ONE TIME since this whole sordid mess came out, since DDay, that DRAC seemed in the slightest way to be affected by all these lousy choices he has made, was when he realized a month ago that DSS was falling flat in school.
And could BUGS fix, even this, for him?
Please? Pretty PLEASE?
Bugs, either take on this project to make sure that DSS gets through school successfully.
Or, leave it on Drac's doorstep to deal with.
You can't rely on Drac, and a 13 year old boy is going to choose GameBoy over Math homework ALL THE TIME.
I know, I'm living it. And Flamingo and I are there, and see his homework and monitor what is going on. And kick his butt to get the homework done.
Just this morning at drop off, he forgot the project he worked on FINALLY last night. It was due today.
But last night, he didn't put the assignment and bookbag all back together and in order so that he could grab and go.
All weekend, he was asked to do the work on the project. He finally did, after repeated nudges, pointed questions, requests and downright THREATS at about 7:30 last night.
And this morning? Even after a 90 minute fog delay, he still didn't get moving. So, he was the last one down and the last one in the car. And we asked him, when he got OUT of the car at the school, "where's your project?" Blank stare. "Oh, I forgot"
So, I'm not driving back to the house to get it. He made choices, choices that resulted in him not delivering the project on time. Drac is doing that. DSS is doing that. These choices are coming home to roost for all involved.
You can think that DSS failures at school are because Drac is failing his son. He is. Drac has set up a failure pattern in his son in regards to
many things.
But DSS bears some responsibility. Being 13 does not relieve you of doing your homework, even IF nobody asks you too.
So, you can step up to that plate, and do the RIGHT THING for DSS. Monitor the homework. Review the planner. Make sure that the assignments get caught up and that DSS is on track, because it is the right thing to do. And then you can BLAME DRAC. And take him off the hook for his failures in regards to DSS.
Or do nothing, and make it ALL DRAC's responsibility.
Pretty bleak choice, isn't it?
In one case, DSS gets the help he needs, and you get ANGRY with Drac. And the other DSS slips deeper into the abyss.
Don't get angry with Drac anymore. At least in regards to this issue. You already KNOW what you are dealing with. Do the right thing in regards to DSS, and the consequesnces be darned.
Because no matter what, Drac can fly to Cancun every other weekend, THAT, in the long run, will not make a difference in your life.
But DSS, slipping farther and farther behind, WILL.
Drac can own his choices, and he's an adult man-child.
But DSS is still searching, and he needs SOMEBODIES guidance.
And that should be yours.
Now. I will be blunt. You CAN use DSS as part of your Plan B to get Drac back. I think that DSS is ONE SURE FIRE way to get DRAC to pay attention to you. However, leaving DSS spinning in the breeze while this part of Plan B plays out? I don't know if that is fair to DSS. That "Happy Home" stuff is taken care of if you do what is right for DSS. And IF, Drac doesn't return, then DSS suffers for the sins of the father.
Sorry, Bugs.
I wish I could give you something else. I can only give you the most painful of choices.
The guilt, that comes from either of those choices? Can only be resolved by TIME. And some help from BrambleRose.
((((BUGS))))
LG
And some help from BrambleRose.
You are a sharp guy, LG. That was well said.
Bugs, I don't know what the right answer is. I could argue it either way. What gets me most concerned is watching it hurt you. When you get angry at Drac, when you're checking the weather in Cancun. . . it's all part of the Drac Dance, and I don't need to tell you whether that's bad or good for you.
I think you sound really good most of the time, though, and you seem to be on top of what you're doing. I certainly admire the choices you have made so far. So maybe you have everything together and just post out the occasional frustration?
Remember the concept of a TRIANGLE. It's SOOO important NOT to TRIANGLE your DSS or daughter in. So keep it about YOUR relationship with HIM..YOUR relationship with HER..YOUR relationship with DRAC. NO TRIANGLES...
Here's the ACCEPTANCE issue again. It is what it is. You can only CONTROL YOURSELF and YOUR RELATIONSHIP with him. THAT'S ALL..PERIOD....You can't CONTROL, DRAC..NOR your SON for that matter...especially during those teen years...OMG, BEEN THERE DONE THAT...even without all this mess that your son is involved in..it's his time to be REBELLIOUS..AGE AND STAGE...such a DIFFICULT, DIFFICULT time for HIM...
And could BUGS fix, even this, for him?
LG is RIGHT, IMO..you are not gonna FIX this...
Don't get angry with Drac anymore. At least in regards to this issue. You already KNOW what you are dealing with. Do the right thing in regards to DSS, and the consequesnces be darned.
Exactly. Do the best that YOU can do...that's all that you can do...
Now. I will be blunt. You CAN use DSS as part of your Plan B to get Drac back. I think that DSS is ONE SURE FIRE way to get DRAC to pay attention to you.
This part, you know I'm gonna disagree with..Don't USE a child for anything...and I doubt this is gonna get Drac's REAL ATTENTION..being a narcissistic WS, he's the one that will gladly USE his SON to get YOUR ATTENTION...
I think what you are doing NOW is just fine and SUFFICIENT in caring for your son...
He'll be OK as long as you remain PRESENT in his life...
The homework stuff is not as important as YOUR LOVE for him and his knowledge of that....
Our now grown sons missed plenty of homework assignments and projects when they were in middle school..what matters MOST in their lives has been the unconditional love that I have evidenced to them..The HANDWRITTEN birthday cards that they sent me last week, thanking me for "LOVING" them, is my testimony to that....all of those grades won't even count in the BIG SCHEME of things...
Hey everyone!
Yesterday was not the best of days. DD had not school, so she stayed home and 'worked' with me from home. That part was fine.
I sent her to her room to feed her fish - - it was Dead! So, all of the fish but the sucker fish have passed on.
Later in the afternoon, I went to do some work on the fish tank, so we could determine WHEN we could get a couple more. DD looks at her hamster,,,,,,,,,,,it has a TUMOR like the other one had. OMG!
She was a WONDERFUL pet owner and made the big girl decision to put Squeaky to sleep. We took her to my parents house and Grandpa gave it a 'shot' to put her to sleep and then he buried her in the yard for us. She was a little trooper. We stayed there for supper, and really, she didn't seem too terribly upset. She got to go see all of the other animals and play with her kittens.
Then, on the way home, we see a deer by the side of the road that had JUST been hit by a car. I told her the real truth about the fact that the deer would have to be 'put down' as well. She commented that so far, December seems pretty bad with all of the animals she loves having to be 'put down', yet she is handling the reality very well.
We called the Aunt's house and talked to DSS. She told him very matter of factly everything that happened, so I know she's doing ok with it. I talked to DSS about his homework,,,,not especially good. AND of course, he was on the Aunt's computer playing games when I called!
I did call his school yesterday and talked to the counselor. Gave him info and he did the same. He's going to get DSS in another class for next semester to help out, which includes giving up on elective class.
I talked to the Aunt and told her exactly what is going on and coached her as to what I told DSS I expect from him today on the homework. Seems Drac called there earlier, but certainly did not have the detail or involvement that I did when discussing homework. I let that go,,,, as it's not under my control.
Bottom line, I will do everything I can with and for DSS, as I am his Mom. Period. I don't care about what Drac is or isn't doing - - well I DO care in this regard, but being upset about it gets me nothing, so I'm not going there if I can help it. I'll do what I can for DSS and enlist anyone else that I can to make it happen. What Drac does or doesn't do in that regard is on Drac.
I realize I could try to manipulate the situation with DSS into something about me & Drac. Again, Not going to go there. It's just not me, and I don't think it's right.
Sd, thanks for your concern. You nailed it on the head when you said that I just come here to vent my frustration. That's where I am 99% of the time with that stuff. It's not pulling me under the way it used to, but as I DO still care, , as the love bank is NOT empty,,, yes some of it hurts. But, it's nothing I can not handle and venting here is the outlet to keep it under control.
DD did talk to him last night. She told me that she'd told Daddy about her hamster, the fish, and the deer, but "It's not anything he really cares about. DSS really cared, but not Daddy. Daddy's out 'partying' even though he's sick with strep throat".
I just changed the subject and she was fine with that. I wasn't going to defend Drac or discuss with her what he's doing. She was fine with it.
I'm running a bit late this morning, so gotta run.
I'll try to ck back later during the day. Here's hoping no more animals bite the big one today!!! YIKES!!
"It's not anything he really cares about. DSS really cared, but not Daddy. Daddy's out 'partying' even though he's sick with strep throat".
Eww. Waywards suck. Where is that shovel?
Tough day, Bugs, what with animals dropping like flies, but it sounds like you're doing great!
((Bugs))
Hey SD!
I was feeling a bit like Dr Kevorkian on Monday! Yikes!!
Yesterday was good. DD had a good day at school. Work was ok. Took DD to gymnastics and *I* joined the fitness club at the same place. So, now, atleast 2 days per week, I have NO excuse for not exercising! It felt good, but am a bit sore this morning. It will get better. I'm glad I did it before the "new year's' rush of new members!!
Ok, here's a couple of questions I will pose for input.
Drac is back in town today.
#1. Do I let him know of anything I've done in regards to DSS's schoolwork?
(I am thinking not,,,,,I don't want to put the counselor in the middle by letting Drac know I talk to him and all of the other isn't a big deal AND I don't want to go down the friendly co-parenting path with him)
#2. Do I let him know of DD's school Christmas program tomorrow night? (again, thinking not. It is posted on the school website, he 'should' have seen reminders in her backpack, and he's supposedly made arrangements to be notified of things by the school)
Thoughts??
((((Bugs))))
Let me answer your question with another question.
Is it your job to ensure that he is at these events? Is it your job to keep his calendar for him? Is it your job to make sure he's an active parent in his kids lives?
Ah,,, James!
How far we have BOTH come! Here you are asking me my own questions!! Thanks so much!
You are right,,,, none of that is MY job!
BTW, I've been keeping up with your thread & you sound good! I haven't posted much, as I haven't had much time, nor any better advice than what you are getting.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks Bugs.. I'm feeling good most of the time, which is a DEFINITE improvement.
You are right,,,, none of that is MY job!
Durn skippy.. and if he misses out? Well.. those are the consequences of his choices.
You sound like you're doing pretty good most days yourself.. I understand the plague upon critters on Monday was probably hard.. but it sounds like you handled it with the grace of a GODDESS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
LOL...BUGS is another that commands respect...she's my [email]kick@ss[/email] girl...part of the Angel pack! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Good Morning! I just HAD to throw that in there this morning...even on your bad days you are still awesome!! LOL
have a great day!!
Rin
Well Rin, from your posts today, you are having a kick @ss day!! Thanks for the kudos!
I am pretty swamped at work & still have like 11 vacation days that if I don't take them, I lose them. I am certain that I will be working for most of them,,,, but that's Ok for the most part. I'd rather stay busy doing money makin' for me and BabyBugs! Trying to plan a fun vacation for next year. (BTW, she told me the other night that Drac is taking them to Disneyworld in Feb?? Reeallly? I think not. No school break in Feb and no lengthy time in his visitation schedule. But, am keeping quiet. Let him hang himself on that - it will be a bridge I'll cross IF or when it comes across my path)
I am guessing Drac made it back,,,, he was picking up BabyBugs from latch key. I got no phone call from them.
BEST news of the day - all of the Christmas shopping for the kids is DONE! Santa is done, Momma is done!! WHOO HOO!!
I just have 2 gifts left to buy! I am going to wrap my 'girlfriend' presents tonight. We are having our Christmas dinner Friday night. That will be a lot of fun. Saturday is present wrapping day/night!
I have a HUGE bottle of champagne chillin in the fridge for that occassion. All my Christmas movies & cds are lined up and ready to go! I LOVE wrapping presents!
BTW, Rin, That Sugarland song has been one of my Power Songs for a while now. BabyBugs and I CRANK it in the car all of the time. (sorry, can't stand the other song,,,you know why - babybugs asks me why I always skip it, I just say I don't like it).
Right now, her favorite song is All I want for Christmas Is a REAL good tan! It makes me laugh because based on the weather, I doubt Drac got one in Cancun.
*I*, on the other hand, intend to get an REALLy good one between Christmas and New Years. It's bought and paid for right down the street,,,,it's called fake & bake!! LOL!
Hey Bugs,
I am so there with the fake and bake. I LOVE IT and thank my WH I walk in the door. He paid for it. He would just love to know how happy it makes me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You sound awesome. You are such an inspiration to me and I love reading about what's happening.
I was grappling with the same issue about telling WH about upcoming school and sport events, especially when I go into Plan B. If I was really good I could get him added to the email system, but I am NOT that good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
His choice, his consequence.
I am asking for help in one issue, well at least today. Can you help me figure out a name for my WH. I have tried to come up with something, but NOTHING and I love yours.
Thanks, SG
SG,
Hey there! Thanks for the kind words.
One note about schedules. On advice I got here, I did start an 'on line' calendar (google is where I went). I put DD's schedule for activites on it, as well as the visitation schedule. I sent Drac the address so that he can view it. IF he does or not is up to him. That way I've done MY part and there's no need to "communicate" with him beyond that.
Ohhh,,, a name,,, what's in a name?? I have to tell you that Mimi actually gave my WH his name of DRAC. I LOVE coming up with stuff like that, but it's hard to when it's your own situation, isn't it?? I'll have to re-read some of your thread to see if I can find some inspiration.
Any helpful hints you might have????
Hey Bugs,
I will look at the schedule idea. I am wondering that if I am in Plan B, do I want to be part of giving him information or does he need to learn to survive totally by his own devices.
When I look at the picture of him and me on a cruise trip that we took he was so careful, clean shaven and looked happy. Now he looks so old, angry all the time, serious, and has a beard that I HATE. As a matter of fact, he started growing it when his EA became a PA. Not sure if that helps or not. He is toxic and self righteous. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
But that isn't any different than anyone elses WH, sadly is it?
SG
Skins,,,
How about Captn Jack?? For the whole beard, pirate theme?
Or BlackBeard? BB?
Or Scurvy?? As in the disease that pirates would get from bad diet on board ship?
I'll keep thinking in case none of those work for you
About the communication in Plan B,,,I've found it a difficult line to walk,,, as do most BS's. We 'want' to do as we have always done and it's hard to resist. I try to give what I feel I 'have' to per the terms of the D. It's hard for me not to do more,,, it's just my nature.
Bugs,
GreyBeard has more ring to it as he gets grayer by the day. Though Scurvy seems more appropriate b/c of OW being crack addict with hep C and who know what else.
Then I just thought of CrabBeard b/c he can be SO crabby at times, when things aren't going his way. Just wait until he gets the LSA. He thinks he has challenges now.
Somehow I want to wipe that happy smiley/smirky "new life" face right off of him. That give you any ideas?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
But his cruetly and monsterness is what I most am experiencing.
How about Planktin? As in something that exists, but is so lowly that you will never stoop to acknowledge him in his wayward persona?
Or, in light of the monster aspect, Nessy? as in Loch Ness Monster?
Yes, oh yes, do I know the urge to wipe those smirks off their faces! The feeling that "Good Lord in Heaven, HOW could they possible be doing and saying these things" and wanting to bring the full WRATH upon them in that moment.
You will appreciate this,,,, when dropping DSS off Sunday, I went into the Drac house. He has the porch torn apart,,,,,it's been that way since I moved out in AUGUST.
Anyway,, part of the railing was broken, although you didn't know it unless you leaned on it (or now that he's torn it completely OFF). It was fine until one evening we were on the phone and he was telling me how *I* had cost him his R with the HO!! I KICKED that railing SO hard it fell down on the ground! And YES< it felt GREAT at the time. At the moment, I wanted it to be Drac, but was glad later that it was just the porch rail.
I smile every time I see it still sitting there unrepaired. I think of it as a symbol. It's the symbol that Drac has a LOT to fix,,, and it's all up to him.
Have you gotten a picture of the porch. I would frame it as a sign of success.
In your signature line from your mom about you can't fix stupid. Everytime I read it I am reminded of a phone call I had with his aunt who he adores, but hasn't talked to since this blew up.
She told me that he is stubborn but not stupid. I agreed at the time, now I am NOT SO SURE.
Let me play with these names. I want it to be just right. I absolutely love yours and until Smartie told me what it stood for I had no idea. I always thought it was his real name. LOL, silly me.
Bugs,
Your story reminds me of my master bathroom. Three or Four years ago, but hubby got it in his craw to remodel the bathroom. Now mind you, we had NO money, but we had a leak in the skylight. So he ripped the bathroom down to studs.
Since we didn't have any money it sat like that until 3 months ago, when I moved out and our house started to be remodeled.
He seldom did any repairs on the house or yardwork and when the neighbors would complain, he would avoid it as long as possible and then take it out on me.
The part that is fascinating, when he moved out with CrackHo to their house in Deliverance he was angry b/c the lawn mower was NO WHERE to be found.
EVERYONE had a laugh over that. He hadn't TOUCHED one in years and that was the only thing he could focus his anger on. Here he was destroying peoples lives, watching his wife and children have to move because of his selfishness and he HAD to know where the lawnmower was.
Ah the mind of a WW, I wish we had a diagram. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> How ugly it would be.
Skins,
TOO funny! Drac hardly ever mowed the lawn. His dad did it for us when he lived with us, and then either Dad or I would do it. We bought a riding mower a couple of years ago and Drac started to do it from time to time.
Drac took it while he was living with his dad to "help out a friend" (like I'm too stupid to understand that code). Anyway, in the property setttlement, he put down that he was keeping 1 rider and giving me one.
The one he was 'giving' me belonged to his DAD! Dad certainly was surprised to hear about that!! I countered about it and his A got nasty in a letter about it, asking "Does she need 2?" UGH! Waywards are nasty, but their lawyers can be even worse!!
So,,,, on to nicer subjects. BabyBugs had her school Christmas program tonight and it was TOO sweet. She was a beautiful Angel in her red velvet dress with white fur trim, white tights, and black 'heels'. She is DEFINATELY my little Goddess in Training! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Drac didn't show. But then, I didn't expect it since I let him stand on his own about it. She called when we got home and am sure that I'll be hearing about it tomorrow.
Whatever.
I shot some GREAT video of her. I even took video of the neighbor's little girl for them that I'll copy this weekend. Sad news there,,, they are getting divorced. I don't know the whole thing, but it's TOTALLY not good. Guess I'd better make 2 copies of the video!
I had called DSS earlier today and had to leave a VM. I am pretty sure Drac still had that cell phone w/him, as DSS left me a return message at 7pm, , , which is probably the time that Drac got home. Poor DSS,,,alone every night after school until 7pm or later. Nothing I can do about it, but it still makes me feel bad.
I must be doing better than I thought,,,, not too long ago I'd be sitting here worrying about what Drac is going to say tomorrow about missing DD's program tonight. Instead, I am firm in my "well, that's on him" attitude.
Think I'll turn in early.
Bugs,
I think you are doing amazing and are such an inspiration. I love hearing about your life.
SG
Hey SG!
I just got home from Christmas dinner with my 'girls'. It was a lot of fun. Tonight was at M's house. Great dinner, great wine, great 'girl' stuff!
DD called at 8:30 (30 min late per the schedule). First thing she says is "sorry for calling late". I asked how she knew she was calling late "W, told me".
Seems they were being babysat for by friends of Drac's while he went to a Christmas party! OMG!
Gone for 5 days. Spent 2.5 hours with DD, spent 4 hours with DSS,,,,,,,,,,,,time to run off for the evening for a Christmas party when it's his "limited" time with his kids who are "SOOOO important to him".'
Made me ANGRY!!!!! But, I let it go as best I could and still enjoyed my evening. I said it atleast 3 times tonight. I can't FORCE Drac to be a good father.
Last time BabyBugs was with him, she complained to me that he was on the phone the entire weekend. This am, she asked if she was going to be with me Christmas day. I explained the scheduled (Christmas Eve and Christmas day til 10am with me, then off to Drac's).
Her response "NOOOOO!"
I hate this for her and DSS.
So sorry, Bugs. It's probably not any consolation, but my kids complained tonight about it being not fair that they would spent Christmas with the SCQ.
That's the worst part--that this is all hardest on the kids. It's so frustrating.
Drac deserves the shovel.
That self-talk is GOOD. Yes, you are POWERLESS over him. The GOOD NEWS is that you can control YOURSELF and YOUR MIND and YOU can do all that is within YOUR POWER to protect them and you are doing a WONDERFUL JOB with a difficult situation.
We all know how sorry he will be one day....
Bugs,
It hurts to watch our children experience pain. I logged on tonight to see if Hansel has contacted YS. Nope, not in over 12 days. The time he is LOSING is sad, but remember they have US and one day when they are older, they will REMEMBER we were THERE for them NO MATTER WHAT.
I think Bramble would be proud of me, I went to an Alanon meeting before my AA meeting. It was good. Since Tuesday I am in such a different place it's G-d given. No doubt.
I want to shout from the roof top how blessed I am from the gifts G-d has given me. And I finally can put into words what has been happening to me all week. And it's because of everyone on here who speaks and reminds me of G-ds word.
I KNOW G-d stands for my M, and that he HATES D. I KNOW that G-d wants to restore my M. And that he WANTS me to stand for my M and have FAITH and COMPLETE TRUST IN HIM.
However, like Mimi keeps saying and this is the hardest part. My H has free will and choice and he may NOT choose to come home or break up his A. I don't get to be a part of that. What I have FINALLY, come to terms about is that G-d will use this for his good one way or another and I HAVE COME TO BELIEVE, that one day I will be whole again. And it's b/c in many ways I have fallen in love with G-d. He is the first thing I think of in the morning to serve and the last one I talk to at night and thank him.
He has become my light and guide to direct me through you all here and in his many other ways. What a amazingling lucky person I am to know that so much change has happened to me in 7 months and that I am FINALLY becoming the woman he always envisioned for me.
I'm not who I was, and who I am becoming is a work of grace because G-d is creating me.
And you set a great example for me to see the other side of what "I WANT" but may not get.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Morning!
Well, unlike so many times in the past, I actually DID sleep last night. I woke up after a couple of hours and it was snowing.
It's SO beautiful! I did go back to bed off and on and got some sleep. Am sitting here looking out the window, watching it snow, and drinking some great coffee. I LOVE the quiet time in the morning. Today, though, it's up to me how long the quiet time lats as DD is at Drac's.
I hope he goes out and gets her some decent snow clothes to go outside and play today.
DARN! I JUST thought of one down side to my lovely new home. BUGS is the only one here to shovel the sidewalk and driveway!! Well, guess I can skip the gym today! LOL!
I was surprised yesterday that I had no nasty emails/vms from Drac about his missing DD's Christmas program at school. Could it possibly be that he realizes it's HIS job to be up to speed with her schedule? I doubt it. More likely 1. I just have another 'black mark' by my name in his record keeping book. 2. He's enjoying telling everyone how *I* didn't inform him about it 3. he's waaay too busy with the latest ho to interact with me. Probably all 3 things. Whatever floats his boat.
I did have a dream about him last night. That he just showed up at my door. The strangest thing about it was that I just opened the door and let him in. It was as if I could simply tell by looking at him that he had totally changed, had hit rock bottom and was here to make it right.
WOW - - now THOSE would be some truly incredible Super Powers to have, wouldn't they? I could just go around the country, looking at WSs and tell simply by looking at them if they had earned their F!
What a nice fantasy to have?!?!
What an awesome fantasy indeed.
I like you am not sleeping as well as I have. Not sure what that is about. It's way to early on the west for me to get up for good, so I am going to put some meditation music on and talk to G-d. And then listen.
What else do you have planned for the day?
SG
So, is it Gretel now?? he he! You and Mimi were busy last night! She's guiding you well! Think about those crumbs to lead him home.
I, too, use morning time for ready, studying and talking to God. That's next on my list.
Then, it's my usual Saturday house cleaning chores. It will be a really good clean this weekend, as it will have to last until Christmas day. I have eye surgery next Wed. and then will have kids for the weekend. I try to spend as little time on 'big cleaning' as possible when they are here. Every Sat we do some cleaning together, then it's family time.
After cleaning is the Christmas Gift Wrapping Extravaganza!
Whoo hoo!
Putting on the Christmas comfy clothes - reindeer socks, sweatshirt, etc. Music on the stero, presents, paper, bows, and ribbon strung all over the room. One of my FAVORITE holiday activities.
Depending on the snow, may do some shoveling, then if it's not too bad am going to the gym for a brief workout and a LONG sit in the SteamRoom.
How about you??
Mimi is giving me awesome advice. I don't know the story of Hansel and Gretel too well, so I might need to learn about what qualities she has. Or read the story. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I have played mommy and put off deep cleaning my apt for a few weeks. Between work, volunteer work, children, and AA meetings, my days go by so fast. I also treasure my time with G-d and I don't get enough of that at all.
So, cleaning, creating a loving home for my boys, and having some alone time with G-d is top priority. Smartiepants and I are going to watch football together, albeit long distance. I might even find time to go shopping for gifts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am getting ready for Winter Break and I am looking forward to the down time then. I am going to work on going to the gym more regularly. My weight loss has really slowed up and I want to keep going.
Though we didn't celebrate Christmas as a holiday, it was ALWAYS just "our family" and we spent it together. The boys and I are going to the movies like we did last year, only we were all together.
I find myself or mostly my brain not quiet at all this morning. I am laying in bed talking to G-d, but I can't seem to quiet myself down.
What did you do when you had those moments?
Just wanted to chime in and say I think you're handling a few rough spots with Drac really well Bugsy.. you're still one of my heroes through all this. Keep on keepin on.
DS had his program last night, and was also adorable doing his little elf dance.
He's SUCH a cute little elf!
Whatever happens between the Ice Queen and I.. we sure made one heck of a kid together.
I'll post more on my thread so as not to totally hijack. Glad to see SG on here more.. you're a great example for us Bugsy.. keep on truckin!
Thanks James,
I'll pop over and check ya out.
James,
Nothing like those special moments for the memory book. I don't know how you keep your calm with Wonderscumbag around!
Skins,,, you got some great advice from Mimi today. It's about staying busy,,,staying focused,,,,making your home a wonderful, comfortable, cozy, inviting place from within so that those on the outside can see it & want to be a part of it - - as well as it being a safe, warm place for YOU, with or without your H around.
Stand up to those kids! Command the respect you deserve!!
*I* was the Domestic Goddess today. House is spotless. I then treated myself to a candlelight bubble bath,,, complete with a glass of wine & a good book. I think took a 30 minute nap on the couch.
Next, I am starting the gift wrapping. I love doing it, but am a bit sad to be doing it alone. I watched the movie Scrooged while napping off & on - - - and am holding on to the message at the end. It's NOT too late. A radical change can happen when you least expect it! Especially at this special time of year, miracles DO happen.
So,,,YES, I think I have been doing better lately. I have not been going crazy mentally about the fact that BabyBugs has her Latchkey Christmas program tomorrow afternoon & Drac will be there.
I haven't thought non-stop about what I am going to wear (whatever it is, it will be GODDESS STYLE), and I haven't worried non-stop about what to do or how to act. It's started creeping up on me a bit, but I am managing to keep it at bay for now.
Any sage words of advice out there on how to handle it??? I haven't seen him for a couple of months, other than an occassional glimpse and the night a while back when I told him to put the box in the trunk.
I am a bit nervous, and am praying he comes alone with just the kids!!
Bugs,
I am taking every drop of her advice and putting it into play and use. She is amazing and I appreciate it so much. I haven't quite gotten the line of thinking or I would be doing and then asking, or thinking it up and asking, but I am coming along. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am getting ready to decorate my house in SNOWMAN, something I haven't done for a long time. Too lazy and hated the mess of my house.
The kids, commanding respect from teenagers with two parents is hard at best, throw in two kids that are just as passive-agressive and angry as their dad and I wish I could drink wine and take a bath. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm glad you are doing better lately. WE ALL are certainly on a tough road here. Something I never thought I would be on, how stupid of me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
SG
So Bugsy, are you in PLAN B or not? In PLAN B, he doesn't get to see you.
I don't know how you keep your calm with Wonderscumbag around!
It's not that hard.. Wonderscumbag is -NOBODY- in my book.. less than nobody... he's not even worth acknowledging. I'm in Plan A.. that means I'm in it for me. I'm in the business of being a good husband to my wife, a good father to my kids. I have no desire to be -his- friend or even acknowledge his existance.. I will continue to talk to my wife as if she is my wife.. he can go sod off if he doesn't like it.
I'm not making a big deal about him because she tells me -he- has nothing to do with the problems in our marriage.. well.. ok.. so it's bovine droppings.. fog in the extreme.. but if she says he's nothing to our relationship.. that's how I will treat him.. like nothing.
It is afterall what she says she wants me to do.
O:)
Actually.. it's very difficult.. but God is my shelter and my refuge.. of whom should I fear? So long as I can walk the path of righteousness, I have faith that God's promise will be fulfilled.. if my WW comes home, I'd rather her remember me as someone committed to continuing in his love for her and our children despite the circumstances, rather than the jealous angry STBX wasting his energy on angst against someone she told me is worthless. *shrug*
Yes, Plan B. I realize it means he doesn't get to see me, but short of borrowing Harry Potter's Invisibility Cloak, how can I make that happen?
It may not even be a concern,,,,, we've had significant snow here last night (about 8 inches here at my house)and the concert may likely be cancelled. I won't for a couple of hours for sure.
As Mom has told me 'hundreds' of times, worry about crossing that bridge IF/WHEN you get to it.
Am going to finish my coffee and start shoveling!!
What is a significant amount snow?
What kind of coffee to you like? Remember I live in the world of coffee flavors, stands and lattes. I swear there are more coffee stands than public bathrooms, especially for woman. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I will have to listen real good about that answer to Plan B dilemna as hubby will be showing up at the high school for lacrosse games and I am there keeping score and cheering on our kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
I don't know about the Harry Potter coat...but..there are ways...
Go late/leave early.... so that you can sit in the back and be in charge of where you sit..stand in the back...
Plan to surround yourself with family/friends so that he can't get to you or see you.
Well, issue has been avoided - - the show is canceled.
Thanks for the advice Mimi. I had planned on having mom, sis, bil, niece nephew in law, all with me and was going to watch from the 'upper' deck of the mall to avoid him. I was all set to go late/leave early, too. Was going to have niece go get DD for me after the performance, etc.
So, at least I have a plan for any future events.
My double drive, sidewalk, back porch, and mail box area are all snow free! Yikes, I know I am going to be sore tomorrow.
When I say significant snow, I have 8 inches at my house! The last several years the most we'd get at one time was just a couple of inches. This is the biggest snowfall in over 5 years here.
I finished up the wrapping this morning. Put away all of the wrapping supplies & Christmas boxes. Took out the trash and scrubbed the floors. My house is a warm, delightful, Christmas place of great scents (holiday candles burning), and light. I love having the tree with the gifts wrapped underneath.
So, am going to shower and clean up. Perhaps will go meet Sis & BIl for late lunch & shopping. DD needs some snowpants to go out and play!!
Have fun and be careful out there.
I was just getting out of the shower when the cell rang. Drac left a nasty vm message.
"Bugs, I am here at the mall and find out it's canceled! THEY said they called YOU and told YOU it was canceled. NO ONE called ME. Here *I* am rushing around to get her here an HOUR and A HALF from MY house and it's CANCELED! I'd APPRECIATE a call back!"
Well sorry, Bugs ain't calling him back.
The fact is no one called *ME* either! I called the mall and asked if it was on or off. Although I shouldn't have, I did send him a TM and let him know it was canceled. The fact of the matter is I didn't even have to do that.
And what's all of this 'rushing around' complaint? It wasn't scheduled until 1pm. So, what, they had to leave the house at 11-11:30??
Gee it must suck to be Sooo self centered and have only Bugs to blame for everything,,,,,,,,,and Gosh darn her, she won't pony up to the plate & call him so he can get even more angry and nasty with her!! SHE's SO MEAN!!
TM to Drac, "No one called me. I called the mall. Sent u tm at 11:40"
Well, now what? No Bugs to YELL at? Now what??? Stuck here "an HOUR and a HALF from MY house with MY kids". What in the world is Drac going to do???
Am sitting here smirking to myself.
AND
At the same time feeling bad because the kids are stuck with him while he's in this foul mood. I'll guarantee they heard that phone call & probably more nasty things about me. I DO feel bad for them in that regard.
I'm sending hugs and prayers for your kids.
I really feel hurt and pain for our children. They are such the innocent ones.
A fresh white blanket of snow from G-d to wrap his love around them is just perfect, don't you think?
Someone told me that G-d doesn't have grandchildren, only children. So he is wrapping them in his love like he does with US
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Thanks Skinsgal.
As suspected, the kids heard every word of the nasty vm. DD even asked me about it. She said he then called 'someone' else on the phone about it,,,,and told that person, as well as the kids that "she should have CALLED when it's something THIS important."
I told her it's ok. I did send him a message and that was enough.
Aparently he talks about being mad at me frequently in front of the kids. What an A$$. Does he not realize WHO he is hurting by doing that? Obviously not OR perhaps he is still just so wrapped up in himself that it doesn't matter. Again, as I said earlier, it must be nice to have Bugs to blame for everything.
He dropped off early - as I expected he would. DSS came in for a while and seemed like he didn't want to leave. So we talked for a few minutes. As soon as he & Drac left, I got a TM that he'd left the paperwork for the sale of our property in the mailbox. I've asked him not to send that stuff with this kids, so I guess this is his answer to that? Whatever.
DD and I took Beau for a walk & played in the snow. I retrieved the paperwork from the mailbox. We gave Beau his bath, read books and watched a movie until bedtime.
Another TM from Drac, wanting me to confirm I got his TM about the paperwork.
What's the deal? Is it Really bothering him that much that I refuse to engage with him at all? Or is it more of the CONTROL that he doesn't have? He DEMANDS that I call him, but I won't. Perhaps it's advice from his 'friend'. Again,, whatever.
I just finished writing out all of my Christmas cards. Now I just have to get stamps for them all,,, which is fine because I can the immediately drop in the mail while at the post office.
Am feeling really good about the holiday preparations. I need only 1 last gift!! The only ones left to wrap are what the kids are giving and a few for my friends, so we can finish all of that up Saturday. We'll also be making our Christmas cookes Saturday. I have an entire box of cookie cutters that I bought last year. We had a ball doing it and know we will again this year.
Grr. Waywards really do make me want to hit things with shovels. I'm glad you're handling it so well.
What does this do for us later in our lives? Learning to deal with such childish, idiotic behavior. There must be some benefit, right?
What kind of cookies are you making.
I made fudge for the first time in my life. Figures I would give up sugar before this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I am going to have to find some splenda recipes.
Sleep tight tonight and talk to you soon,
Bugs:
Sounds to me like you are really handling it well. God has blessed you in so many ways. I pray that he will one day find his way home, after he has found god.
Children are smart, they will see right through him, the way mine has through her dad. Just keep God the center of their lives and all will be well.
I found out friday that my christmas present is that I get my final divorce papers on friday to sign...just in time for the holidays....
I didn't want to sign, but as god's word says, "If the unbeliever wants to leave, let them leave." I know without a doubt that mine is an unbeliever right now. I am trying to stay focused, but it is hard. Especially when they call and say that without a doubt they have found the love of their life and are expericing that feeling they've never felt before.... I didn't want to bust his bubble, but as soon as an emotional need goes unmet he'll pop....
In the meantime, I've been asking god to help me. To let me remain focused,and to strengthen me more. Despite everyone else saying that he's no good be glad he's gone, I know how hard it is...I pray that you are not hearing the same. We are both so blessed by God that I know we will see God's best. Let me know if you find it before me.
Bugs:
The TM's, VM's, and the bad things said to the children?
Not control.
HE realizes that he lost that. And all he has left is himself.
And he finds that to be very wanting.
Your plan B is having the desired effects. If you continue doing as well as you have, you can expect to get more of the same. Just keep responding like you have, which is "nothing more than necessary"
And keep loving the children.
The rest is up to Drac.
(((BUGS)))
LG
PS. The phone call after the nasty VM was not to another Woman. It was to some family member. FIL, or someone like that. Who else would listen to THAT? If you were getting INTO a R with this guy and he called you and said THAT, what would you do? So, it was probably FIL. Invite FIL to dinner during the holidays, You, FIL, DSS and DD sitting down at your NEW house. THAT will get back to Drac.
Hey Bugs, you sound well...inspite of everything...like you I think I'm going to need some help as I walk this path...
With POwS in it...if he's going to be in if...
-WE- will be fine...alot of leaning on each other and on GOD...
LG, if you would please, offer your advice on my thread...i would appreciate the support and guidance...I personally think that I just go on with my life as if POWS's not in it...I think that's what James was trying to say as well as BUGS...
Thank you both and have a great day!
Hey LG,,,,
Good to see your sage advice on the board today!
Ok, so the VMs, TMs, isn't control. Then what is it? What's the reason for it?
And why do I need to expect more of the same?
This morning, the perfect example is getting an email from him - -
"What is the planned close date for the property? Do you plan to go through your lawyer to settle up the finance; or are we going to handle it?"
I haven't responded. First question - he KNOWS that I will advise him as soon as I have a closing date, and as he JUST signed the contract yesterday, we couldn't very well have a date set yet. Also, what difference does it make on the attorney or not??
I did email my attorney, asking her what specifically I'll need to do so that it is documented properly per the terms of the divorce. As it is part of the divorce, of course, my attorney will need to be involved to some degree so that it is documented as completed in compliance with the decree.
To me, this isn't a big deal, and certainly not in terms of the 2 questions he asked. OR Am I missing something here?
So you decided not to get an intermediary?
Bugs, you are not in PLAN B.
That's why I keep asking you about this.
This Emailing and such will continue and you will eventually breakdown, IMO.
"Bugs, I am here at the mall and find out it's canceled! THEY said they called YOU and told YOU it was canceled. NO ONE called ME. Here *I* am rushing around to get her here an HOUR and A HALF from MY house and it's CANCELED! I'd APPRECIATE a call back!"
One of the major purposes of PLAN B is to safeguard your love for him. Keep allowing yourself to be open to this and the bank will eventually go to EMPTY. Does a part of you want this to continue, Bugsy? I wouldn't want that NEGATIVISM to be a part of my life. You are leaving yourself wide open to this and are not enforcing a BOUNDARY.
The fact is no one called *ME* either! I called the mall and asked if it was on or off. Although I shouldn't have, I did send him a TM and let him know it was canceled. The fact of the matter is I didn't even have to do that.
All of this concern on your part would not be necessary if he could only contact you in case of an emergency. He knows he has the opening to blast you and you are allowing this to happen. Take responsibility for YOURSELF..ONLY!! What part do YOU play in allowing this to happen? It's hard for me to listen to you complain about this because you are allowing this to happen.
TM to Drac, "No one called me. I called the mall. Sent u tm at 11:40"
You see...YUCK..Score one for Drac. YOU DID NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN NOTHING TO HIM. NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPENING IF HE HAD NOT CHOSEN TO GET A DIVORCE.
You are not at all responsible for explaining anything to him about anything. YOU ARE DIVORCED..at his choosing..FINISHED... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
At the same time feeling bad because the kids are stuck with him while he's in this foul mood. I'll guarantee they heard that phone call & probably more nasty things about me. I DO feel bad for them in that regard.
You're going to spend the rest of little BUGS childhood feeling bad then...if you don't put a stop to this by BLOCKING OUT HIS ACCESS to you...
He is a GROWN MAN..supposedly..YOU ARE NOT HIS MOMMA!!!
I don't even like reminding my own grown sons about things that are THEIR RESPONSIBILITY...
You want to be HIS WOMAN..not HIS MOMMA..and he keeps casting you in that role...YUCK..
Gee, I take a couple of days off to have eye surgery am back on page 3 already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The woochipper thread is just much more fun, anyway!!
Eye surgery was a success! Just got home from my follow up and everything looks great! I have 20/20 vision in the eye that they worked on! Merry Christmas to me!
I’ve been thinking these last couple of days about ‘allowing’ him to contact me /exposing myself to his negativity when he throws it my way. Yes, I did react to it, but for me, it was different in that it was not done as a “I’m trying to please or pacify” act. I gave a statement of fact that he could take whatever way he chose.
No, Mimi, I am not his Momma. And he absolutely wants to cast me into that role - - which is interesting because one of the things he told me I did wrong was to treat him like a child. The truth is that we BOTH were a party to that dynamic in our relationship. Unconsciously, he needs/wants me to continue to fill that need for him.
He called again, wanting to talk about DSS. Long story short, Drac has not (as WE already knew) stepped up to the plate to be the PARENT. We’ll see if there is any change in that in the future. It’s not something I can DO for him or that I can control. I can help DSS when he is here, and I will continue to do that.
Drac also wanted to engage about the holiday schedule,,,, having sent me an email that I hadn’t read about how we “don’t have to go by the court schedule.” He says he’s not spending any time with family,,, just with the kids so his schedule is flexible. He claimed that he didn’t even KNOW what the ordered schedule says about the holiday. I’ve already arranged my life & schedule around the court order. I didn’t want to vary from that, despite his “trying to work with me”. I didn’t want to discuss, but I made an error and let him know that DD isn’t happy about spending most of the break with him, that I didn’t know why, and that she won’t tell him because she does not want to hurt his feelings. To quote him, it should be about what the kids want,,,,,,, but WE should be the ones to discuss it. ???
We left it that I would find out about DD’s dance schedule and let him know. I was very short, curt, and to the point in my reply. In the meantime, he’s sent an email that saying it is apparent that I prefer to stick with the court schedule, that he made arrangements to be off work, and he’d meet me Christmas Day for the exchange. WOW! He made arrangements to be OFF work? Did he plan on working all of those days?? Geez. I haven’t responded to his email. I intend to find out about her dance class tonight and then will reply.
He wants me to give in to being the friendly co-parents and I am not prepared for that.
WHY am I not prepared for it is the question?
I am Strong enough to let the crap bounce off of me when it comes to him these days. Even after the weekend situation and schedule back & forth, I feel calm and at peace. I’m not keyed up and thinking about it non-stop. I don’t feel the uncontrollable NEED to contact him. I don’t feel the NEED to explain to him the how or why of what I feel or do.
What I DO feel, and what I DO know is that I DO still love my husband. I don’t know the person that I have been dealing with for the last year and I don’t like the imposter person he’s trying to be in order to get me to interact with him.
I just don't feel as though I need some new or detailed plan on every moment of my life right now. I don’t need to plan for what he may or may not do - - - what he may or may not say - - what he may or may not think - and certainly about what he may or may not feel.
I’m happy with my life right now. I don’t want for anything, except to have my kids be happy. I do what I can in that regard.
Ok, I’ll ask just one question for now - - do I sound goofy here??
You don't sound goofy Bugs.. but you -are- being drawn into his drama.
(((Bugs)))
You gotta do what's right for you, but your anxiety is inversely proportional to your darkness these days.
I'm behind you and Rin whatever you guys do, but I worry for you both sticking your heads out of the foxhole like this.
I'll make this PLAIN AND SIMPLE...
If you want to recover your marriage, I think you can but ONLY..if you do a dark PLAN B and NOT be cast into the role of OLD BUGS..he will keep you in that role and have NO OTHER NEED for you... If it were me, there is NO WAY, I would be that OLD BUGS for him..not for ONE MINUTE..not even A SECOND...
If you want to remain divorced, move on, fall in love with someone else, then ABSOLUTELY keep the current status quo, even better...COPARENT with him..
I support you either way, my KINDRED SPIRIT...
But I will share that I did that for MY HUSBAND and still do..but he had to WANT me FOR MORE than that..my H wanted the OW for FUN AND GAMES AND ROMANCE and wanted me to MANAGE HIS LIFE..Do you see where I'm going with this, Bugsy?
He's still a CAKE-EATER and you are ENABLING this.
He wants to USE YOU.
It makes you FEEL GOOD to BE USEFUL to him...I think?
But it is CRUMBS...
What if you REALLY had another fellow? Would he put up with this crap from Drac? You are still attending to him...
James,
Thanks for the concern. I've no intention of continued interaction with Drac. He's welcome to his own drama. While it ticked me off about the vm the other day, I really didn't feel 'anxious' about it. The emotions and desire to DO something just weren't there.
I really am peaceful and content with my life.
I look at it this way - - he's like a little boy with a stick who comes across an animal which he is afraid of & doesn't understand. He's facinated by it and just HAS to poke it with a stick to see what it will do. He's just trying to poke me with a stick.
I am not like a snake who feels it necessary to hiss and spit at him because I am afraid and am in defensive mode.
Neither am I a helpless turtle that has been rolled over on it's back and can't get upright.
Those days are gone on both counts.
He may not see that. It may not come across in my posts. But I feel peaceful. From the top of my head to the tips of my toes and all the way to the bottom of my heart. It's a GREAT feeling. It's not the hyped up HIGH of just a moment or two, but the sort of good that you know is going to stay.
Let him try to rely on the OW(s) to help him remember things...They will fail...then he will MISS you...
He has no motivation to reconcile if he has some of the cake...
I think you're fooling yourself, Bugs..
You're not ABSOLUTELY peaceful..
You're peaceful until he gets to you...
He should not be able to GET TO YOU AT ALL...PERIOD...
Plus, you shouldn't be feeling PEACEFUL...
You should be going through WITHDRAWAL..but you are not..you are maintaining contact with him...keeping that little door open..and he knows it...sending you cartoons.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I know I'm being hard on you..
but I LUV YA...is why...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Only time to scan, but I think Mimi's onto something here.
(((Bugs)))
My posting time has been reduced dramatically by work demands and computer problems at home. So I had to SEARCH to find you back on page 3! Unacceptable!!
Mimi is most definitely on the right track, Bugsy.
Analyze what it is that you are getting out of this situation. Confirmation that he needs you? Proof you are a better parent? Being able to watch his self-destruction?
You are not nearly dark enough. You should know by now there is no such thing as a MODIFIED plan b. There is no such thing as plan b with SOME contact.
And you should know by now that anything less than PLAN B is damaging to your overall plan. You're protecting his fall. You are preventing his fall. You're prolonging his fall.
And why do you want to do that?
Awww Mimi,
I know I'm being hard on you..
but I LUV YA...is why...
I know,,,,but thanks for the reminder!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
But I will share that I did that for MY HUSBAND and still do..but he had to WANT me FOR MORE than that..my H wanted the OW for FUN AND GAMES AND ROMANCE and wanted me to MANAGE HIS LIFE..Do you see where I'm going with this, Bugsy?
yes, I do see where you are going with it. And I see the point of settling for crumbs by doing the life management for him.
Yet, I have a question. IF all he wants me to do is manage his life, and based on what we've seen, that is ALL he wants me to do --- then HOW or WHY is it possible that he would he ever think of me, see me, or want me for any other reason? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Don't get me wrong - - I'm not saying I want to fall into the role is is setting for me as his life manager and nothing more. I don't want that.
Bugs...
I hear ya. I am so exhausted right now...it has been two weeks of almost constant motion and activity. I say this because I don't know if whatever I say will make any sense. I'm practically keeling over.
Just go dark. Dark. Dark. Dark.
You do not NEED to do A N Y T H I N G for Drac.
You do not NEED to say A N Y T H I N G to Drac.
You are under NO OBLIGATION to make room in you life for that man. He brutalized you and destroyed your family. He STOLE something that was absolutely precious to you, crushed it, and tossed it away...without (apparent) remorse or regret.
Danger Will Robinson. Keep away from him.
If he were a stranger, you certainly would. Why should Drac get special treatment from you just because you were married to him? Just because you have kids?
You are under NO OBLIGATION to co-parent, to keep him updated, to coordinate anything, to make anything easier for him. Those details are outlined in the divorce papers.
HIS cruelty, HIS betrayal is what prompted you to cut him off from your life. You did so to take care of yourself, because he TAUGHT you that he cannot be trusted to protect you.
It is HIS responsibility to make amends for that. He needs to teach you (demonstrably) that he can be trusted to protect you.
Until then, pretend the man does not exist.
Who knows what will happen. But right now, I urge you to resist the urge to engage, to peek out, to ponder.
Awww...easier said. Since my WH has never attempted to draw me out, it's easy for me to give advice. Sorry. I just would like to help.
I better go soak in a tub and crawl in bed.
I better go soak in a tub and crawl in bed.
GET UP, GIRLIE!! WE NEED YOU AROUND HERE!!
That's the best post I heard from you, Sis!!
I'm applauding and holding my mouth wide open!!
AMEN!!
Wow, am I learning some amazing insight and information from this.
Thank you, Bugs - you are helping me prepare myself for Plan B.
I'm taking it all in, trust me.
B
I LOVE SIS' POST! I agree with her a zillion percent....
IF all he wants me to do is manage his life, and based on what we've seen, that is ALL he wants me to do --- then HOW or WHY is it possible that he would he ever think of me, see me, or want me for any other reason?
Here I go again...
He has got to SUFFER...reach the bottom of the barrel..before he ever gets to the point of changing or wanting to reconcile with you.
Any time you meet any need of his..HE IS RELIEVED OF HIS MISERY...
And something in you wants to come to his aid...and when you do, you meet an emotional need of his...so WHAT IS HIS MOTIVATION TO CHANGE this situation?
He will change when he has to SUFFER..suffer as a result of having to rely on the OW to help him..and they will fail...
Dr. Harley of course explains it best:
Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.
So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover...Plan B
Further, (I forgot to say this in my haze last night) I think that is teaching your daughter an important lesson....even if it makes things a tad more difficult or awkward for her.
The lesson is this (and I think it's an especially important lesson for girls):
You do not NEED to be around someone who hurts you. Someone who hurts you is NOT loving. Actions speak louder than words. Staying away from people who hurt you is protecting yourself. It should NOT be viewed as hurtful--it is self-preservation.
If and when the hurtful person BEHAVES in a way that is TRULY loving and protecting of your heart, THEN and only then should you CONSIDER allowing that person to re-enter your life.
Bottom line: You are perfectly within your rights to turn away from people who hurt you.
This is, of course, a conscious choice. You can choose to keep the hurtful person in your life, but you do so at your peril.
I think women often get caught up in feeling OBLIGATED to "do for." Yuck. It is not true. We are ONLY obligated to ourselves (and our young children).
The only OBLIGATION, IMO, is to state your truth to the hurtful person. Let that person know in no uncertain terms that his/her behavior is hurtful, and because of that, you need to withdraw....and you will remain "withdrawn" until the behavior becomes loving. (thus PBL)
I don't know quite how this fits in a marital relationship, though...????
You can't just withdraw...you need to negotiate...is that where POJA comes in?
Sorry if I'm TJing, Bugs.
ETA: thanks, mimi.
And furthermore. (I'm on a roll, here)
First, BR would thump me for apologizing, so scratch that.
Second, I see a lot of wondering, pondering the effect this or that will have on Drac, how he may or may not react, or on your chances for recovery.
Of course our minds all "go there." I'm speaking in very broad terms...not implying that you shouldn't even think about Drac. That's just not possible.
However...THIS TIME--this darkness--is for YOU. You are growing for YOU. Drac hitting or not hitting bottom, when he will, if he will, the challenges of recovery, what he's doing....STOP IT.
You can't know. You don't NEED to know. It may NEVER happen...so live your life for TODAY. Love today! Take all that God has blessed you with and rejoice in it!
This is so much easier said than done, I know. And I can't imagine trying to get into this frame of mind with Drac constantly knocking.
Okay, now I REALLY gotta go or everyone is going to be late.
BIG-Sis!
Wow, thanks for all of that, you ARE on a roll!! I can argue none of the points you & Mimi make, not that I want to!
I've been sitting here trying to reason out an HONEST evaluation of myself. I think much of my pondering is due to battling the IRL opinions that surround us all.
With the exception of my Mom, no one IRL really understands and are pushing me to try to be a friendly co-parent "for the sake of the kids". Of course no one believes there is ANY chance of changes in Drac, so they believe it's best to just get along. The general consensus seems to be that by refusing to 'work' with him, I am being petty and bitter.
It would all be much, much easier if it were not for the situation with DSS being with Drac. That is what he's used to try to pull me in, and I've let him do it. THAT continues to be my biggest struggle.
The conversation you have outlined above is one that I, indeed, have had with DD - almost EXACTLY. She gets it, too! I totally agree it is a very important lesson.
Mimi, it is likely right on that Drac is finding OW lacking in the support areas, and finding he can't do what needs to be done on his own, which is why he is reaching out to me. Making me 'feel' responsible because it is for the benefit of DSS, that he needs my help. Total manipulation. He further knows that *I* feel obligated and that others IRL will encourage me in that feeling of obligation.
Well, time for him to stand alone. As far as anything we can "do together", there isn't anything more as far as I am concerned. He either stands up and does what he needs to or he doesn't. I can not change or control his actions - but further than that (which I think is the key here) I can't come behind and try to FIX or Clean Up when he doesn't do his part. RIGHT?!!
Danger Will Robinson. Keep away from him.
LOL!! I LOVED Lost In Space!! This gives me a great mental reminder when tempted by the 'dark side'.
So, we are set with the court appointed schedule for the holidays. Done. No need to discuss or interact.
Today, DD is off school for the Christmas break. We are wrapping presents this morning, getting her a bath after, going to 2 offices of my work to deliver gifts, then to Drac Aunt #1 to deliver cousin's presents, then Drac Aunt #2 for the other cousin present, and then ppicking up DSS. Then,,,,, drive back to my area for DD's latch key Chirsmas performance early evening.
We just finished a snuggle session on the couch! We were talking about what would we do without each other and agreed, we would be able to do nothing! If I had not another thing in the world, that would be fine with me, as she is my greatest blessing!
Thankfully, God continues to bless me in so many ways - Especially with the gift of you all here to help & support me.
Where else would I find great insight, support, Goddess training, AND wood chippers??!!??! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
We watched "Groundhog Day" with Bill Murray and Andie McDowell last night.
And you need to be more like Andie in that movie.
Unless Bill was "perfect", he just got slapped, and she left.
Until Bill finally worked on and improved himself from the manipulative and conviving and sarcastic self, he never had a chance.
You need to be more like Andie.
You have delivered the slap. With your FIRST plan B letter.
And Drac keeps coming BACK.
And expecting you to respond to his foolishness.
Please, Please stop.
There was a reason that Drac's FIRST wife is not involved with him.
She might have been crazy. But who is the common denominator to these relationships?
The two or three R's he had before he found you?
And the two or three R's he was had since he found you?
Drac.
And HIS desire to have you manage that difficult aspect of his life, kids, home, etc, whatever, while he is just involved with himself.
Please have that meeting, and lay it out, and GO DARK.
Or, even better at this point, just GO DARK.
Because he isn't WORTH the effort.
He was on good behavior with you when he met you, courted you, and was interested in you. Then he lost that interest, and divorced you.
You should let his pain stay in the street and never cross your threshold.
HE might "break" and come to his senses. He IS in his senses. And that sense is that I need many women to serve my various needs.
And I will use whatever women who allows me to get it.
LilSis had a terriffic series of posts to you. I'm proud to see her strength coming thru.
Your strengh comes thru as well. I see it. I even admire it. Please be Andie. And Slap Drac every time he approaches you with foolishness.
Because until he decides to come at you with perfection, that all he deserves.
((((BM))))
LG
I totally understand the IRL pressure. I feel that as well. However, by stating it in the way I've described tends to diffuse some of that.
He has hurt you terribly, continues to do so, shows no regard for your feelings...and you are expected to have a friendly relationship with him? Why, exactly, when you have a divorce decree? And for whose benefit? (I'll tell you for whose benefit: those IRL critics. THEY are uncomfortable.)
You are not doing this to punish him. You are not doing it out of spite. You are not trying to make things more awkward for DS (as if the awkwardness is caused by YOUR actions??).
You are doing this to protect YOU. Your feelings. Your sanity. Your peace of mind. So that you can get on with YOUR life instead of getting dragged into the drama.
You are not a masochist, for goodness sake.
If Drac would CHOOSE to behave as a gentleman and a show sincere remorse and regret, THEN you can CHOOSE to explore the dynamics of a relationship.
As it IS...you don't NEED to HAVE a relationship. The divorce papers have established the parameters for you.
THAT'S what you can say to your critics IRL. It makes perfect sense to mine: "I am under no obligation to make room in my life for someone who has hurt me." It's pretty hard to argue with that, IMO.
As you pointed out, however, you have two incredibly complicating factors: DSS and the fact that Drac keeps pressing your boundary.
You have to be especially vigilant and careful. Can't help you there... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Thanks again, Sis!
I am standing more firm today in dealing with the IRL folks, thanks!!
Yesterday was planned as a busy, busy day, but I had to adjust my schedule when DD spiked a fever. All went ok, and we picked up DSS shortly after he got out of school early. I was glad to see that Drac atleast got the Christmas tree put up at the house for the kids.
I did better yesterday even with the kids when they each brought up Drac stuff. DD said that Daddy is taking her to Florida in February. Instead of questions or asking WTH? I simply said "that's interesting" and changed the subject.
When DSS told me that when were to call Drac last night, he might not answer and would call them back because "He is going to be at a meeting". I tried to keep my laugh quiet and said nothing. Geez,,,,he even has to lie to his kids. How sad.
Yesterday I finally got a call back from my attorney about the sale of the last piece of property. I had read the decreee and had some questions about the final settlement. Well,,,,,before I could ask any questions, she brought up what I was going to ask. Seems that the paperwork (drafted by HIS attorney) is SILENT as to the profit or loss on the sale and as it states earlier in the document that *I* retain all rights in the property,,,,,,,,,,,,,I am entitled to keep ALL of the 'profit' from the sale.
She has a call in to this attorney so that they are aware of this. He could choose not to close or even try to file an emergency injunction - - - we'll have to see.
I am trying not to think about what his reaction will or won't be when he finds out!!
Well, seems the kids are having a hard time getting along today, so time for me to supervise a project. Think we'll do some cookies or finish wrapping gifts.
Morning Bugs,
I am in awe of your strength and soaking up all the wisdom everyone is posted.
My heart and prayers and eyes are watvhing you girl.
Bracha
Skins,,,
Don't be so quick to be in awe,,,,,look at yourself - you have much to be proud of!!
Well, a surprising day. Mom came this am and watched kids while I went for follow up dr appt. That all went well. Got home to kids being kids,,,,at each other in that brother/sister picking way.
Well, FIL called and was finally accepting my invite to come visit the new house and to have dinner with us. I wasn't prepared for it, so had to run to the store. Got it all done & was starting dinner when he arrived. It was SO nice to see him. I made a new stuffed chicken recipe, during which I had about 30 min. to relax and spend time with everyone. FIL has a Nextel radio. It went off and Drac's voice came over the speaker asking FIL what he was doing.
FIL replied , "Visiting with your kids and Bugs". NO reply from Drac. FIl & I exchanged looks but said nothing at the time. We got time to 'talk' later about all kinds of things. He said that he can not say anything about the kids after coming to visit because Drac thinks *I* put FIL up to everything,,,, when the truth is FIL & I 'think alike', especially when it comes to the kids.
Drac tells them all that I "am not family" and none of his family should have nothing to do with me. His answer, and all of them answer "Yes, she is family, especially because of the kids" And they all think a lot of my R wit DSS. Drac HATES that. So, unfortunately, FIL may have heck to pay with Drac about this visit. FIL's reply is that "Too bad. He's not going to say who I talk to and who I don't".
For now, that is a huge LB in Drac's world. That's too bad. I told FIL about my feeling re:Drac. He's a good man deep down,,, a man that I love,,,,but he is not being that man now, so he can not be part of my life. FIL seems to understand.
Anyway,,,,, we had "Christmas" together and it was great! Kids were good and FIL was really surprised at their great behavior here. I explained it takes about 24 hours after DSS arrives, but once we settle into our "routine" here, life is really good. That DD and I have a VERY good life here all of the time. Of course we miss everyone from "back home" and think of them often. They will always be our family and are always welcome at our home.
Good stuff!!
Bugs,
I'm so happy for you. Both my parents and my H's parents are dead. H and I only have a sister each. He has NOTHING to do with her, in fact I am really close to her.
I remember when I was at SIL house for Thanksgiving I was crying because I felt like this A was taking my family from me and if he divorced me I would lose out on that part of my family. They said the same thing, that I would always be their aunt to my neices and a sister to SIL. That felt good. His favorite aunt, is so disappointed in him and just wants him to get his act together. She is truly hurting over this and is angry in someways. She says we don't do low class. LOL
Tell me about your house, what colors are they? Do you like to cook?
Bracha,
Yes, it feels good to have those folks let me know that they care - - - but Drac HATES it. Right now, for him, it is a big LB. Oh well, too bad for him.
The funny thing is that for all of the years we were married, he had little good to say about his family. Now, he expects their undying support and can not figure out why he does not have it??!!
Drac just finished drilling the kids about our evening. I was upstairs (as I always am when they talk to him as I try to avoid hearing anything). DD came upstairs to talk to him about what she got for DSS for Christmas. Guess it's bugging him that I bought presents for everyone to give everyone, as *I* always have done. Whatever,,,,not my worry.
Let's see,,, my house is done in the colors which were here when I moved in back in August. I am going to start my re-decorating next year. Right now, it's all pretty neutral, with purple accents in my room, taupe/green in the living room, red/black chefs in the kitchen, and High School Musical in DD's room. My bathroom is Lighthouses (not MY thing), and DD's is ducks, which she loves.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE to cook special dinners. Tonight, as a matter of fact, I picked a new recipe to make for FIL. Everyday cooking for me and DD is hard,,,,not enough volume and what i REALLY love is too extravagant for everyday.
I love trying new things. I taught Drac to cook & he acts like he's done it all of his life, when the truth is, HIS mom NEVER cooked for him at all. He had times when he was VERY young, where he went to the neighbors virtually begging for food. Of course, that is a big part of what he has yet to deal with to get healthy.
Well,,,, kids are coming in asking for "move theater time" Gotta run,
BTW -- good job today!!!
Thanks Bugs,
Have fun with movie night. Talk to you tomorrow hopefully.
Bracha
Hey Bugs,
How was movie night?
Can I ask you a question on how you Plan A'd Drac?
Well, since you asked, I've copied and pasted my thread below. Sorry, I don't know how to do it in the nice way to show it as Bug's Plan A thread,,,,
It's long and sordid - - and as you know, did not bear the fruit which I had hoped for. Yet, maybe you can reap some benefit from it. With a lot of help, I think I did do some good things during Plan A.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=
Thanks.... I will read it tomorrow when my eyes are so crossed.
I am planning on getting up in a few hours and driving up to watch him play soccer again. I'm not sure he will be there, but I have to go nonetheless and then if he isn't, I think I will call him and tell him I missed not seeing him play.
What cha think?
Oh wait, it is tomorrow. I mean later on today.
LOL
Hey Bugs,
I am heading back to sleep. I have to look my prettiest in a few hours. Oh, I think I am going to wear the sweatshirt that matches his and NOW FITS.
If I don't see you later on, thank you so much for your time and Have a Merry Christmas. I hope to see you soon,
B
Bracha,
Good luck today! Hope all goes well. I am sure it will, as you are the Queenie, Warrior Goddess!!!
Thanks,
I just got the greatest idea on emailing WH and starting to introduce the negotiation practices.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If nothing else, I will have learned skills for my next relationship.
Be careful,,,,,be sure you don't come across as trying to "EDUCATE" your WH.
If you are saying that you are simply going to put the principal into practice without telling him what you are doing, that's ok.
Remember,,you can't go with a frontal educational approach. He'll reject it out of hand and it would be a LB right now.
And MOST of all - Do it with NO EXPECTATION of what he will or won't do as a result. Plan A for YOU, not for an EXPECTATION of WH.
Keep us posted.
How's this?
How would you feel about giving me the opportunity to explain some of the marriage principles I have been learning to create a brand new fulfilling marriage beyond our wildest imaginations that is totally and completely blessed by G-d?
Queenie,
It is a VERY tough call on when to introduce some of those kinds of things. I only did it on the specific advice of Steve Harley.
IMHO, it may not yet be the right time for your WH and I don't know that I'd do it in an email. That's the kind of thing that I think is best said when you are able to look into his eyes and convey the open honest knowledge, belief and love that goes along with knowing that MB works.
How about you post that over on your thread and ask for some more input?
Yes, don't educate him. Take your time. When the affair ends, he will be back. In the meantime you can calmly tell him that you miss him and need him. Then smile and go on to something else.
(((((Bugs)))))
Passing out Christmas hugs to all the people who have taken the time and given of themselves to help me through my darkest hours.
You're one special lady Bugsy.. have a blessed and Merry Christmas.
You'll be in my prayers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Sending lots of love your way, Bugsy. Happy Christmas!
Merry Christmas Bugs.
Still
I see you got some excellent advice while I was gone, Bugs. Now you can get more excellent advice now that I'm back. Probably not from me, of course, but I'll be around to read it and maybe add a snarky comment or two.
Merry Christmas!
((Bugs))
Bugs:
Thanks for the boost last night and this morning!
Have a wonderful, blessed Christmas. You'll be in my thoughts.
(((bugs)))
Morning Bugs,
How are you today? Merry Christmas?
B
Thanks EVERYONE for the season's greetings!
Sorry, don't have much time, as am giving my ALL to the kids while i have them. I tried to get my Christmas wishes posted earlier while kids were playing, but DD had a minor meltdown that ended up turning into a bigger meltdown.
Bottom line - - despite the fun we are having, it is weighing on her mind about having to leave to go with Drac later, "This back & forth is making this the WORST Christmas Ever".
So,,,,,,,Bugs is trying to hold on to have MY meltdown AFTER the kids are gone.
Add this on top of finding out that my brother, who had to leave town for 'storm duty' work and isn't here for Christmas had a drunken blackout the other day and has no memory of breaking his girlfriends nose!! Police are involved. We didn't find out until he'd left town,,,,,It's BAD.
Oh, yes, then there is the fact that my best friends H was diagonosed with Lukemia on Friday. It's not been the best few days for good news.
Yet, we are doing OK. Being thankful for the Blessings we DO have and are trusting God to get us through it all. He's always faithful to his promises, so I know He'll get us through.
Blessings to you all!
Will ck back later
Yikes, Bugs
You'll pull through and make things great for the kids, I'm sure. If you need to melt down later, that's okay. We'll be around to listen.
Blessings. . . .
(((Bugs))),
Just wanted to send hugs your way.
Still
Hey Bugs,
Come melt down with me tonight. Sis and Believer said it was OK to schedule a meltdown. Believer says to get a glass of wine (crystal glass), candles, kleenex, remove makeup, then Sis says get the sad songs or movie and let 'er rip. I started out OK, but the day is ending on a down note.
I'm here tonight. Unfortunately alone again....
(((Bugs)))
You're one tough lady.. it's ok to have a breakdown. Was spending the afternoon at my mom's place, and ended up in the bathroom for about 5 minutes.. it's hard what we're going through, but you're turning to the right place. You've got God to turn to.. and we're here for you.
I'll be in and out tonight as I go to pick up DS in a little over an hour, but I'll check in on you.
{{{{{{{{{{{Bugs}}}}}}}}}}
We are all holding each other up and hearing each other meltdown. Together we can get through it all. Alone, we lose and we are truly the WINNERS in LIFE. We are the survivors who are learning and growing in G-ds world.
Feel the feelings, but that's all they are. As my sponsor says, no amount of pain will kill us, it's what we do with the pain. And here you are telling us so we can pray and share it with you.
So Chai, if I don't drink can I still get to meltdown?
Skins
Hi everyone!
Thanks SO much for checking in on me. I am home alone now. Just me & Beau. HE was very glad to see me, so that made me feel good! Unconditional love there for sure! LOL!
Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,the rest of the day went good, but it stunk having to rush outta Mom's to take kids for the exchange. Drac was waiting. I pulled up and behind him so that I could be on the opposite side of the car from him. I kept over there and pretty much out of sight.
DSS went to get the things out of the trunk, but came around to tell me bye and had a bag in his hand and says, "This is for you". I didn't look at Drac the entire time and got outta there. I took a peak in the cheap plain bag and found I cheap plain gift. I 'guess' it was supposed to be from the kids. No tag, no card.
Frankly, I found it insulting. It was a CHEAP nasty bath set from WALMART. Drac CAN be one of the most considerate gift givers ever. No offense to the wonderful Men here, but for a typical 'man', Drac has a knack for being able to do very sweet & thoughtful, perfect gifts.
This was such an 'after thought' type of gift,,,,,ya know the kind of cheap gift you'd get from a male a co-worker that you don't know & they only had to give you a gift because they got your name in a drawing??
So,,,,,,,,instead of my "planned" pity party, I'm Pissed Off. It really did insult me. IF it had been something the KIDS had bought with him, or picked out, I would LOVE it. But it wasn't. They didn't mention having picked anything out & I KNOW that they would have said something. UGGHH!
THEN, as I was reading up on everyone's threads here, DD called to tell me all about what she got at Daddy's and all of the things that she is going to get to do while she is there. One night a hockey game with friends of Drac, another spending the night with another friend's daughter. Guess Drac can't be bogged down with having her the ENTIRE time,,,,,,,,,,NOPE, that might take putting his dating schedule on hold for an entire 5 days!!
DSS talked for a bit about what he got. Makes a lot of sense to buy a kid GAMES and things for his GAMES when he's just had them all taken away for BAD GRADES, doesn't it??
But, I put on my Happy Voice. I was "so happy and excited" for them both. At least as far as THEY could tell I was, and that is all that matters.
I hope Drac chokes on the candy the kids put on HIS packages.
So, I am SURE the meltdown is coming, but I gotta work thru the pissed off part first!!
Thanks for listening to the RANT!
You go girl..
I love your spunk. I am working towards that one day.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
What are you doing for yourself tonight?
I came home and settled in for a good old fashioned meltdown. I had "planned" on listening to Christmas songs all of the way home, knowing they would put me right where I wanted to be,,,,,,,,,,,,weepy and ready to let all of it just flow.
Instead I listened to some great rock & angry female songs because I was mad.
Got home & cuddled with the puppy and took him for a walk. Then, changed into my most comfy sweats, popped a new bottle of champagne, and settled in here.
One more glass and I'm off for a nice hot, candle light bath. THEN, some sappy movie with lots of tissues.
How about you?
I came home from seeing National Treasure with my three kids, and my DD boyfriend. I had a pretty good meltdown in the movies. My DD is very concerned about me.
I came home and made taco meat for my boys, and they ate, and I put a roast in around 4:30. It's done, but they aren't hungry. I'll finish what I was going to make and hope they eat or maybe I will make them sit down just to sit as a family.
I as going to go to AA meeting, but I would rather hang with my boys. I want to finish our Monopoly game and maybe read some stuff tonight.
Not sure, I am really exhausted from all the sadness that has held me down for the last few days.
Did you notice that there were cycles to this. Some days you feel like nothing can stop you and then there is a spiral downward and you just almost have to go through it and come out? Or is this stinkin thinkin?
I wish I could have some good ole tequila and drink away some feelings, but not a good thing for me. I'll end up dead, literally.
I think I might even write in my journal and read some Torah for comfort.
What are you doing tomorrow?
I have to find some Plan A thing to do for H tomorrow. Any thoughts? I could pop on down, but don't really have a reason and I really prefer to sleep in anyways. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Last night the boys and I went to the movies and we saw Golden Compass. That was really good.
Do you like to go to the movies?
Did you get the subliminal message that the Golden Compass is supposed to have...about killing the character who represents God? I know someone, that I respect very much, who read the series of books by the author, who is an atheist who apparently is on a mission to promote non-belief in God. He said the books were literary works of art, but that he would not allow his children to read them because of the underlying message.
Hi Lady,
You know, I really didn't. Fortunately I was too distraught and caught up in my world to get the message or even notice it. I just loved the characters and the actors in it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Besides.... there is NOTHING that could shake my belief in G-d. NOTHING. My M may not survive, but I am becoming a woman of G-d and I can see those results each and every day.
Bracha
Grrrr.....pity party, pissed off party...whatever. Neither one is very pleasant. That's it...we should shoot for Pleasant Parties. Peaceful Parties. Pick-yourself-up-dust-yourself-off Parties.
HA! I got a bath set, too!! Only mine was from Bath and Body Works. Warm vanilla sugar. Not my first pick, but a safe choice--kinda like your male-coworker scenario. And in my case, even though they didn't pick it out, at least the boys wrapped it (even though it was here at home last night, not with WH).
So I did have a present under the tree...after all my whining, I have to say that I would have preferred a hand-made card from each boy.
Because now every time I use that stuff (which the boys will always as if I did!), I'll think of how I rate right up there with the drawn-out-of-the-hat Secret Santa person you don't know very well but are forced to buy for...
And Grrrr about the games, too....I'm sure you were smiling through gritted teeth.
Well, at least you got something that FEELS decent, even if it's not your favorite scent. Sorry, but the Walmart stuff?? I might as well slap on some Crisco!
Did I just say that?
The champagne is kicking in! he he!
God Bless DSS and my Mom. This morning we were opening gifts,,,,,and doing the Christmas stockings. Mom bought stuff to put in MY stocking because she didn't want DD to wonder why Santa didn't put anything in Mommy's stocking!
Then, DSS made a point for them to wait while I checked out my stocking. I felt really bad later when they were opening their gifts from me and he says, "Wait, it's Mommy's turn to open one". It was just then when I TOLD him, that he realized, I didn't HAVE any to open. So he says,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
"Next year, Mommy gets 5 EXTRA presents"
ALMOST had the meltdown right then.
Middle Sis just called,,,,,,saying that she thought I could "help her out". She said she was missing something this year from her gifts and had heard I had something I could share with her.
I was like "What do you need?"
She said, "Well, I heard you have some GREAT bath stuff!"
LOL! Mom had told my sister's about the "great gift" Yep, I can always count on my sister's to give a perfect smart a$$ comment when I need it most!! LOL!
How many siblings do you have?
We're a family of 4 kids.
2 Older sisters. One 7 years older, one 4 years older. I WAS the baby girl until I was 11.
Then my parents did the UNTHINKABLE,,,,,,,,,they had a baby! We were ALL in shock! OS was 18, YS was 15 and I was 11 when BabyBoy came along!
Dad was an only child, so he REALLY wanted a boy to carry on the family name. It was like he had 4 moms!
And you??
I would have loved to have a big family. I wanted more children, but my H said no.
I have just one sister. Sadly, my parents pitted us against each other growing up. We had a very rough childhood and emotional abuse. She is very sick now. We both have a desire to be close, but she can't because I just am a reminder to those horrible times.
So I don't have any parents, no sister, and no relatives to speak of. I could really pity myself on that one, but I don't. I wish I did.
I will say that I keep in contact with WH's sister and aunt. He has NO ONE. One friend from our life, but NO ONE else. He can isolate himself so well and that's what he does. Lives in his head and NEVER ASKS anyone for help.
Oh well, that really is his downfall and somehow G-d will reach him. I just have to trust this.
See...you are in luck, Bugs!
Next time you are baking something that requires Crisco instead of butter, and you suddenly discover that you are ALL OUT...you'll be all set!
Two gifts,
Two gifts,
Two gifts in one!
Plus you can re-gift to your sister. I would seriously hang on to one of the pieces from that bath set and give it to her next year, beautifully wrapped.
Yep, because she deserves payback for that smart a$$ remark...even if it's delayed gratification on your part.
Sorry you are so alone, SG.
Meltdown mood with you as well.
Picked up my DD and we spent Christmas morning at the ER because my WS returned her with a sprained knee and severely sprined and fractured ankle. Looking at surgery now and he has no clue how it even happened.
I went out and bought myself some clothes at really good prices. The shirts showed off my getting to be goddess figure. Size 10's are fitting now.... Setting the next goal. Went from XXX shirts to Large. I feel so happy now.
We spent christmas eve at church with others from the divorce care class. It was great. We first went to the movies, then for chinese and then to church. My DD fell asleep on my lap during church.
Learning and taking notes from you as to how to just move forward. Going to turn in now so I can get up early to read some of God's wisdom.
Isn't it funny how you can look back now and see things that happened and know that if it happened to a friend you would have told them to run while they could and to realize that you did not ?
Be happy that Drac bought you anything at all. I didn't get anything from my DD for my birthday at the beginning of the month or for Christmas.
Even though I spent tons on him for his Bday and he had some Christmas presents from her. I didn't know what to think. I would have been happy if he would have even had her make a card, but not one gesture at all ! You never understand someone who has a mental problem. He could do it out of spite, or he could do it because he needs to get me out of his mind.
I noticed at the last court hearing he couldn't take his eyes off of me. I have to laugh because he tells everyone how happy this girl makes him. He looks at her, but it's not with the loving glances he used to give me. And he doesn't hold her hand or open the door, and he always seems tired and not smiling. When he does smile it is a forced smile. I bet he was mad that I smile so easily now adays.
Skinsgal, I still break down all the time and it will be a year for me January 28th. The time is up at the courts that I can go and sign the divorce papers. Debating whether to sign or wait 2 years. I have a tough time with that, but yet the bible says " If an unbeliever wants to go, let them go..."
Right now, just waiting, praying, and hoping....
Keeping you all in my prayers. Have a safe holiday....
Morning BUGS! I hope that you plan to have a goddess day today...let the music grab you, k?
And I DO PLAN TO DO exactly what you instructed...time is so precious huh?
Merry New Year! That's what I say between Christmas and New year's! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Good morning!
Yesterday was a busy one. I was "sleeping in" for the first time in MONTHS, until the phone rang. I didn't catch it in time and it went to VM. I saw from caller id it that it was DSS, so I called back without listening to the VM, as I was concerned.
Turns out that DSS left his shaving kit bag with his meds in my car the night before. They wanted me to meet up with them so he could get the meds. So,,,,,,,,,,,I told him I'd need to call him back after making adjustments to MY plans.
I called back with a place/time for them to meet me and gave the option that if that didn't work Drac could drive to MY house and pick it up. They chose to meet. Of COURSE they were about 15 minutes late. I was inside (McDs) when they got there so that I could avoid seeing Drac. Kids came & in visited for a while. DSS was wearing a new suede coat. It was a nice one, but not really appropriate for a 13 year old boy IMHO.
Turns out DSS said he had 'the other coat' in Drac's car for me. I didn't understand what he was talking about. Then, as he explained, I got mad at Drac again. The coat DSS had been wearing was MINE. One that mom had given me to wear out to play with the kids out in the snow. I'd jokingly told DSS that I wanted it back someday. He apparently told Drac that,,,,,,,,,,,,so Drac bought him the SUEDE jacket as a replacement?? I explained to DSS that i was just joking with him and that I wanted him to keep that coat - - He need something to wear out in the snow!!
So, Sis,,,, remember that 'clueless' thing. Kinda applies here. Drac bought DSS the kind of coat DRAC likes, not what DSS NEEDS.
DSS also said they'd ended up with an 'extra' bag from my trunk during the transfer the night before and it was out in Drac's car. Wonder why Drac didn't have them just bring it in with them? I told DSS that it could just be returned when they come back on Sunday. That way I didn't have to go out and possibly see Drac. (Mimi, you should be proud!)
DD didn't want to leave me, but DSS help cajole her out the door. I stayed inside until they were long gone. I then went and met Mom & sisters for after Christmas shopping. Ran by my house for a bit and then to Mom's for a light supper. I was really exhausted & wanted to be home.
However, as little brother made it back yesterday from his out of town work, there was a chance he was coming up for his "Christmas" and I wanted to be there. Turns out he had to go get his phone replaced and didn't show.
I came home early and tried to sleep. Nothing doing. I think I was out for only an hour at a time all night.
I almost forgot to tell you all the "highlight' of this Christmas Day. My family bought DSS a bike for Christmas. With DD getting a bigger girl bike for her birthday, I had talked to them about the fact that DSS did NOT know how to ride and it bothered me so much! I tried to get Drac to teach him for several years, but he never did. DSS didn't want ME to help him at that time, so here he was at 13 without knowing how to ride.
They were GREAT. We knew that being out at Mom & Dads (where no one could see him), the guys in the family could work with him and make it happen.
and IT DID!! Christmas day the first thing he asked to do is to take his bike outside. Dad & oldest sis went out and adjusted his seat,,gave him some coaching and by the time the other family arrived he was able to ride down the entire country driveway!! I was SO HAPPY and PROUD for him. He even took one really good spill,,, and got right back up and right back on the bike (which would not have happened just a while ago). He said he couldn't wait to go home and show Drac that he can now ride!!
More updates,
I got copies of letters in the mail yesterday from my A. Seems she's had a back & forth with Drac's A about the sale of our property.
The seperation agreement and final decree that HIS A drafted and which HE signed, give me FULL title and interest, which means any proceeds from the sale are MINE. It states that Drac must pay 1/2 of the mortgage payment for 9 months, during which it is listed for sale. It is actually silent as to him getting any proceeds, but is definitive that I retain all interest in the property.
My A let them know that the payments he is making is in compensation for my having paid the payments of this property as well as our timeshare for the entire duration of our separation. HE kept all interest in the timeshare.
So,,,,,,,,I am sure (if his A has told him) that he is NOT happy about this. I know *I* wouldn't be if I were him. The truth is, it's his Attorney's fault. He's the one that drew this up and failed to address it if it was an issue. They just 'assumed'. That's a bad thing to do in any situation, but it is deadly when it comes to legal matters.
Bugs:
Your ex-H bought his son a new coat. For Christmas.
What wrong with that?
It's made of suede? So.
Really. You CAN NOT control this.
Why get angry or upset?
Its not cluelessness. It's control. And you can't control this.
Next year Drac can buy him a BIGGER bike.
OR a FUR coat.
Or a shotgun.
Not within your control.
You CAN have discussions that TRY to get you to some sort of agreement with him regarding disipline, grades, hair length, style of dress, language, etc. But you can ONLY control these activities when DD and DSS are with you.
Heck, Flamingo and I have issues with this NOW, even with us being together.
IT is SO MUCH more difficult in your sitch. And consternation on your PART, is misplaced.
The sitch sucks already, why concern yourself over things that you can't control?
Let me give you an example....
Flamingo sent DS and I out to buy a book bag. About 4-5 years ago. He and I selected a LL Bean bag, that was mainly black and had a strip of orange on it. It cost $60-75 dollars. WAY more than most bags. She thought I was crazy. (this was in the middle of my A, mind you, and we had a terrific marriage....) Why so much? 4-5 years later, he is still using it. It might get him all the way to HS graduation. Yes, I'm still crazy.
What is the lesson? If you have a pre-concieved notion of WHAT you want purchased, then you need to either go buy it yourself, and control that, or you let the outcome go. Flamingo didn't like OUR choice. But, IT was MY responsibility to do it. She gave me that responsibility. But she didn't like our choice, at the time But it worked in the long run.
Buy DSS a shaving kit for YOUR house.
Get meds for DSS that STAY at your house. Refill as needed the RX's for YOUR house.
Review the things that move back and forth and have duplicates (if possible! no duplicate Ipods/gameboys/dolls) at your house.
NO more hiding at McD's for an exchange that didn't need to happen. This is the second or third time a meeting had to occur because of meds.
Sorry for the 2x4.
It's been great, Bugs. I hope it works out for you.
(((BugsMom)))
LG
Hi Bugs,
How are you doing today? What do you have on tap to take care of yourself?
I understand the lack of sleeping or intermittent. Really makes for a long night.
Some of my wildest dreams are on nights that I don't sleep but on and off. What about you?
B
LG,
I see your point about the control and am working on that. Am going to spend time thinking about it a bit more today and will see what steps I can take within myself to recognize it in the future.
I do have to say though, that my point wasn’t that I was upset about him buying DSS a coat. I think that is great. What I was getting at was that the purchase was about Drac, not about DSS.
Again, I will acknowledge and agree that even with that taken into consideration, you are right in that it is something out of my control and something for me to let go.
I do have duplicates of things here for DSS. Unfortunately, meds are not something that I can duplicate. Each month we have to get a new script from the dr as it is a ‘controlled’ substance that can’t be auto refilled. I have one ‘backup’ dose that I keep here for him in case he forgets. I usually try to remind him to split the bottle up when he gets a new one and just bring with him the # of doses that he needs for the # of days he is with me. I will need to set myself reminders to do that.
Thanks for the 2x,, always good to get someone to help me step back and take inventory.
It's been great, Bugs. I hope it works out for you.
What’s this? You aren’t saying goodbye here are you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
About this:
"What I was getting at was that the purchase was about Drac, not about DSS."
HOW? HOW? HOW?
It was Drac's style? It was Drac's Size? It wasn't what you would buy? DSS doesn't fit into it? It isn't DSS's style? What makes it about Drac?
I bought the last coat for DS last year. Was it what Flamingo would have picked? No. But it's what DS picked. And he wears it. I leave it at that. Next time, she can walk around with him and look with him. It wasn't about me. Remember, DSS is a boy. He's different than a girl.
LG
LG,
You said that in your sitch,
But it's what DS picked. And he wears it. I leave it at that. Next time, she can walk around with him and look with him. It wasn't about me. Remember, DSS is a boy. He's different than a girl.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. DSS is a boy, not a girl.
You have a very KEY element in your description of your sitch, you bought what your DS picked. That is PERFECT. It wasn't about you. Fantastic.
VS
This is what DRAC picked, not DSS. Yes, it is Drac's style, but that doesn't make it a 'bad' choice.
No, it's not DSS's style. Again, does that make it a 'bad' choice. No.
DSS said it's not what he would have picked.
In this sitch, that is what makes it about Drac and not about DSS.
It is still true that I have to recognize this as something for me to let go of because it's something which I have no control over.
Because, what is the bottom line here? Drac can buy what he likes for him. DSS is going to wear it despite whether or not he picked it or whether or not he even likes it - - because that is the dynamic of his R with Drac.
I have come to see things from being outside that dynamic on a daily basis. DSS as struggled with identifying his own likes, dislikes, hobbies, etc. because Drac has always done the choosing FOR him vs them doing the choosing together. This is true on everything from his room, his toys, sports, movies, hobbies, 'coats', activities, vacations, free time, whatever.
I have made the deliberate decision to help DSS explore and to start identifying those things for himself when he is with me.
As you have made me remember, what Drac chooses to do when DSS is with him is Drac's choice.
Bugs:
About this:
I have come to see things from being outside that dynamic on a daily basis. DSS as struggled with identifying his own likes, dislikes, hobbies, etc. because Drac has always done the choosing FOR him vs them doing the choosing together. This is true on everything from his room, his toys, sports, movies, hobbies, 'coats', activities, vacations, free time, whatever.
The boy is 13. These choices will be made by the parents until the kids starts squawking otherwise. DSS might not have the voice "yet"
You are trying to give him that voice, and I will applaud you for it.
My DS picked out his coat. Drac picked a coat for his son. At 14, my son was part of the decision. At 12-13, he really could have cared less.
My DS would wear certain things over and over. Because that's what he liked. We would buy similar, or something close, and he would never wear it. Choice on his part. Drac may have wasted his money on this coat. Just like we did on various other things. Oh well.
Oh, BTW, my 15 yo DS has discovered girls. He has committed to being fashionable in his own right.
Wait until that hits DSS.
Then Drac WILL be wasting money if he doesn't consult DSS on purchases.
So, Bugs, that's why there isn't much difference. It really an age thing. And beyond your control. Plus, you get your old coat back.
LG
BTW: That kid who shot up the shopping mall two-three weeks ago? The original picture of him released to the press? Could have been my DS. Scary? You bet. I even told Flamingo NOT to look at the picture. But she did.
Bugs
(miss ya!!)
I think the point is: there are a few dozen reasons why Drac is a lousy father these days, and what coat he picked for DSS is really low on the priority list. It just not worth concerning yourself over.
You need to be darker.
Hi Bugs.
Bugs, you know I have a pretty huge advantage in a Plan B due to my daughter’s age. Mine has been as dark as it is possible to do and still live on the same continent. A total dark Plan B has been an absolute blessing for me in my effort to achieve personal recovery.
However, today I get a very sweet little 2-line email from Wayzilla wishing me a happy birthday. And guess what? It tested me. It conflicted me. It got me thinking all kinds of “What’s going on s?” and “What if s?” It probably did everything she wanted it to do. Except get a response.
She has only sent 2-emails in the past 6-months and yet when she was nice, it penetrated the armor. Once again, I am a bleeding betrayed (now ex) husband visiting places I don’t want to be.
I am not yet healed and will not be for a very long time and every contact just picks at the scab and sets the healing back and will ultimately make the final scar more livid.
Bugs, go as dark as you can. Lousy Golfer has as always, great advice. Protect yourself.
Bugs
(miss ya!!)
I think the point is: there are a few dozen reasons why Drac is a lousy father these days, and what coat he picked for DSS is really low on the priority list. It just not worth concerning yourself over.
You need to be darker.
Great post, Lexxy
I know that part of what Bugs does is vent out frustration here, and we tend to make more of it than is maybe warranted, but I think that Lexxy has a point. Drac still has too much influence on your daily life.
Hang in there.
(((Bugs)))
I think I need to clarify what I meant by "darker."
I think you have done a great job of removing yourself from Drac's view.
I don't think you've done quite enough to remove Drac from YOUR view. And I don't mean physical sightings -- I mean that you know too much about his activities, the kids are informing you too much about what goes on at his house, too many people are informing you about him.
So you are in this perpectual state of semi-withdrawal -- which I think will take its toll on your lovebank.
So maybe think about how you can plug some of those holes?
LG,
After your first post yesterday, I really did see that it wasn't anything other than what it was. No different, really, than the fact that he buys things for DD which she won't wear once she comes home. I let that go as "oh well, it's his money to throw away".
Not my concern.
Oh, BTW, my 15 yo DS has discovered girls. He has committed to being fashionable in his own right.
WOW!! THAT is what I've said will happen with DSS, too! What an amazing time in a young man's life. Hope there's not too much anxt (sp?) in it for him! LOL!
Can't believe that his look a like is the MN shooter! Yikes! He IS a good looking kid, though!
Again, thanks for the inventory check! Hope you don't stay too far away!!!
Chris,
First, Happy Birthday (a day late). Sounds like overall a pretty darn good day,,,,,,,,,,for a 47 yr young guy!
Sorry you got the TM from Wayzilla - - - As GREAT as you are doing I really do get how it is with that picking at the scar.
SD,
You are EXACTLY right. I am not totally UPSET over things I write about here. It's really more me just saying "Geez, what a silly Drac" VS I am MAD and UPSET. Just minor venting to prevent festering of things.
It's good to take an inventory check, like LG helped me do, but no, these aren't HUGE issues for me. Thanks for seeing that. I have a feeling you have similiar thoughts with your sitch.
Lexxy!!! Girl, I've missed you, too!!! I have been wondering about you!
How were your holidays?? Are you doing OK?
I am SO glad you posted again with the clarification on being darker, that helps. And, you are right.
In fact, I was working on that a bit the other day in the car with the kids. The truth of the matter is that with kids involved, I will be hearing more than I really want to about him from time to time. He is their father and they are going to want to talk about what they do with him.
What's more important is what I do with that information and how I let it effect me. It's VERY important to me that neither kid feels that they have to watch what they say around me all of the time or that they can't talk about THEIR lives. That's not fair to them. I'm the adult here and I have to learn to deal with MY issues with their Dad.
So,,, am thinking more about that for now and will let you know what thoughts & insights I come up with.
Yesterday I had a pretty relaxed day. Cleaned house at a leasurely pace. Then went and met some friends after work. A former co-worker was in town for the holiday and it was great to see her! She lost her husband, the love of her life, about 5 years ago. They were an AMAZING couple with an AMAZING marriage. She is a perfect example of personal recovery, though, and is doing so GREAT! She inspires me.
After that, I talked to my friend G, who came over and took me to a late movie. I didn't get to bed until 2am!! Thank goodness I'm on vacation!!
It's apparent that he is now wanting to be more than just friends. I really just don't know what to do about that.
I really care for him, but am not really ready to 'date' him. I am thinking I need to talk to him about it not being a "NO", but just a "not yet". I just don't know when I'll be ready. It won't be until I've gotten a lot further down the path from Drac.
I need to get moving. I have another friend coming over tonight and we are going out in my area to a fun bar. We are planning to take a cab to avoid trouble and she's spending the night! Should be a good time!
Thanks guys! I hope you know how much it means to me to have you all here by my side!!
Morning, all.
Nothing much happening here. Plans last night were canceled. My friend's bil had surgery & she has their 7yr old for a few days. So, have made alternate plans for a night out tonight.
I just did some laundry and lay around the house yesterday. It really was kind of nice for a change. I rarely do that. I may try to catch up on work email today. Blackberry shows I have over 200 emails right now. YIKES!
Talked to DD last night. She's ready to come home. Although tonight she's going to spend the night at one of Drac's friends who has a daughter about her age, so she's excited about that. I've done pretty well letting go of the fact that Drac just couldn't put off any plans in order to spend the entire time with the kids. While I understand that this time of year presents several social opportunities, he complains about not having her enough, yet he schedules an OVERNIGHT away from her when he does?
So, just sitting here trying to think about what I'll do to fill the time today.
Hey Bugs,
What did you do to fill the time in?
I am struggling with keeping myself busy because I have no energy for life. Did you experience this?
B
Morning!
Well, the truth is, I didn't do much.
DD called at 10am, which NEVER happens. I don't know what was up with that. I think she just wanted to talk to me, I guess. She did say that she'd "be home early" today.
Intersting, as I haven't been contacted about that. Guess he just assumes I'll be here.
Then, I spent over an hour catching up with an old friend who I have known for over 20years, but haven't talked to in at least a year. It was great to catch up with her.
Then, I treated myself to another afternoon of reading books and watching tv! I took a candle light bath for an hour. Talked to another friend on the phone who called to ask if I was attending a particular party. It's an annual party to which we've all been invited for years, and where I knew Drac was going last night. I told her no, I wasn't going - - truth is, I wasn't invited. It did hurt that I wasn't invited, but hey, that's part of this situation.
Talked to DD last night. She was having a good time, which I knew she would be.
I then cooked myself exactly what I wanted for dinner and dropped off to sleep early. Not my usual way of "filling time" but it was all good. I rarely do NOTHING all day.
The dreams must be going around. I read about Mimi's yesterday and had some of my own last night about Drac. That hasn't happened for quite some time. Dreamt that he invited me to meet him somewhere to 'talk'. Never got to the part of actually meeting him,,,,but it was a bit strange, that's for sure.
I am going to check out a church this morning. I haven't yet found one as a church home for us here. Keeping my fingers crossed that this will be the one.
Then, I am doing some shopping and may go by Mom's for a while.
Normally, I fill my time with little projects around the house. Anything from organizing my jewelry box, to sweeping the garage. Just busy work.
OH, I did spend some time on the net looking for things for a baby shower for my niece. We are having it at the end of March and are making it a "March Madness" kind of theme, as she is having a boy!
And, I spent time planning a weekend birthday trip for myself and my girlfriends in January. Just something semi-local, but think we'll have a lot of fun!
Morning,
What kind of church are you looking for. What quailities are important to you.
It's this busy work that I hate. I feel like my life has just been put on hold and it's empty inside. Do you feel the same way or how do you feel. Is the busy work something you enjoy or it's part of the process of moving forward and living a new life.
You must be very close to your mom. I miss my parents a lot. Even though they really didn't want me or my sister, she was still my mom. I could use a hug from her or reassuring words that I can do this with or without him.
March Madness Theme as in basketball?
Tell me about what you are planning for you birthday.
SG,
Well, I am open as to a particular 'demonination' at this point in time. What is important is that my beliefs are what is taught in the church. I want to be sure that my kids are getting the teachings that I want for them. That's #1.
Second, is that I can find a closer R with God through the worship and sermans. I liked what I saw and heard today. We are planning to go back next week and take the kids.
There are times which I thoroughly enjoy doing some of the busy work. Other times, not so much, because as you say, it seems to point out the emptiness in my life. Yet, there are times that I CHOOSE to have some silence, some alone time in which to read, study, or whatever all by myself. It's time I use to look inward and work on me.
So, part of the busy work is part of MY process. I do less 'busy' work now than I used to, as I am finally able to sit still and not traverse the path straight to non-stop thinking about Drac, and then a subsequent pity party each and every time.
I read a LOT. Sometimes for self-reflection & learning. Sometimes merely for fun & entertainment. Again, it is something I can do better NOW than say 6 months ago. I can be still for a longer period of time and keep my focus on things besides Drac.
These last couple of days, though, I have been thinking about goals for the coming year. That's been a little tough. I've also been thinking about my friendship with G, and how I am going to need to address our friendship/potential R with him. I care for him, but am in no way ready for a R with anyone right now.
I am still In Love with my EX-H. I've faced it, and am ok with it for now. Actually, I'm not totally OK with it, but I can manage with that fact for now. Sometimes I wish it weren't true,,,,,but wishing won't change it. I've acknowledged to myself that even without realizing it, I have committed to waiting the 2 years before really moving on.
That does NOT mean that my entire LIFE is on hold. Not at all. I just recognize that it's going to take ATLEAST that long for me to keep focused on me, keep up my self improvements, and arrive at a place where I am emotionally sound enough again to consider a new R.
Yes, Mom & I are very close. I am sorry you do not have that in your current support system. Here's a cyber hug,,,{{{SkinsGal}}}! Best I can do from here. Don't forget to hug yourself, too!! It does help!
Yes, March Madness as in basketball. Their last name starts with M, so we are calling it Mxxx Maddness. The truth is then ENTIRE family on both sides are in a kind of 'maddness' in the joy of this baby.
For my birthday I am planning a day trip to some local wineries in our area. I love, love, love going to the wineries. The scenery is beautiful, very peaceful. I love sitting around with my girlfriends over snacks & a nice bottle of wine. Then, I plan for us to stay in that area for a nice dinner and hotel stay overnight. It's long been one of my favorite things to do.
Hope you are having a great day!
Hey there,
I didn't realize that you are about 6 months ahead of me in healing. I can't even imagine being at a place where my life is without my H.
How do you stop loving someone who was the reason you lived in a way you just didn't understand. And the weird part is I KNOW through the years my H knew how much I loved him and needed him. If my M doens't make it, there is a part of me that wants to hurry up and die so I can find out from G-d what the truth is. I know, pretty scare, just where I am at.
I admire your strength so MUCH. You are such an inspiration on how you have moved forward and created such good out of bad.
Thanks for the hug. Family has always been the most important part of me and other than my children, I don't have anyone really to speak of.
I'm still working on my bedroom. Made wonderful progress. I can be so creative with space. Thank goodness because I don't have a lot of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm glad you enjoyed services today. That is so important.
DD is downstairs sleeping right now and I am so glad to have her home. She was certainly ready to come home, too.
She said last night (again) how she never wants to leave this house. Overall I am sure she enjoyed her time with Drac, but here with her Mommy is where she prefers to be.
We just hung out last night,,,watching movies and playing. She told me about the different things she did while she was gone. I forget how it came up, but she did mention that the Ho is 'back together' with Daddy. OUCH. While I 'knew' it, it still hurt to hear it confirmed.
She's said a couple of other things recently that I've let go for now, but will be keeping an eye on her about. The first was when she was telling me about a movie in which the mom makes a promise to her baby. DD says, "when parents make promises, they keep them, don't they." I answered, "Yes, they do". She replied, "well, I don't know about that with Daddy. He's not always trustworthy". Trustworthiness is something they've been talking about at school, so I know she understands the meaning of the word. It BROKE my heart to hear her say that about her daddy. I know I can't fix that for her,,,,,,,,it is between the 2 of them. Yet, how sad for my baby girl to have to think that about her Daddy. I did tell her that the one thing she could always trust in is that he does love her.
So, here I am on the last day of one of the hardest years of my life. While I am oh so glad that it is almost over,,,I am so unsure of the coming year. I don't really know what my hopes and dreams are for the next 12 months. That is not like me at all. No matter what has happened in my life up until now, I've always started off the New Year with a positive thought process and some thoughts of how it's going to be a good year.
So, instead of taking myself to task for not feeling the same as before, I am trying to focus on a new way to start the year. For now, it's Proverbs 3:5,6
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart;
and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge Him,
and HE shall direct they paths.
So, before DD gets up, I'm giving myself permission for a mini meltdown and trying to let go of the pain I feel right now. I know it will be just the 2 of us tonight to ring in the New Year. It hurts to know that for the 2nd year in a row, Drac will be spending it with the Ho. I can't do anything about that.
Then,,,,we are going to plan a FUN day today. I think maybe we'll spend some time planning a vacation!
I think maybe we'll spend some time planning a vacation!
How about the DISNEY CRUISE?
So, here I am on the last day of one of the hardest years of my life. While I am oh so glad that it is almost over,,,I am so unsure of the coming year. I don't really know what my hopes and dreams are for the next 12 months. That is not like me at all. No matter what has happened in my life up until now, I've always started off the New Year with a positive thought process and some thoughts of how it's going to be a good year.
Awww, Bugs. One more day. Then all this holiday stuff will be SO over.
I really think that the scripture you cited is just the one. At this point in our lives, we really need to be open to whatever happens. We can't force anything...so setting specific "goals" may not be the best thing to do. I prefer to think that I am just wishing for peace and contentment in the coming year.
How that's defined...what it looks like...who's to say? Trying to figure out what will happen in the future is a waste of time and effort and emotional energy.
If we could all be peaceful and happy and content and enthusiastic about what life holds in store for us, wouldn't it be great?? It's probably just the fact that we've been burned so badly that we are a little apprehensive, rather than excited, to see what the new year brings.
(((hugs)))
Sis,
Right on the money you are, thanks! One day at a time I suppose is still the only way to go.
Message this am from Drac about DD getting her hand caught in FIL's car door. I already knew about it from DD. Luckily it wasn't bad.
His message started with some bs about his TMing not working last night. yeah, whatever. Lots more lies to come with the HO back in full swing. Guess I have to give him credit, though, for letting me know what happened.
He wanted to know about picking her up on Wed for his usual night,,,, if she would be at latchkey. I asked her what she wanted to do that day, as she is off school. She wants to spend the day with me, and she "doesn't want to go with Daddy". Oy! What to do? I don't want to force her to do something she doesn't want to,,,,but it won't fly for me to be the one to tell him that.
I haven't been able to get 3 feet away from her all day until now. I have just these few minutes while she eats lunch.
We are going to my Mom's tonight for New Year's Eve with them, my lil bro and his girlfriend. Expect an early night. Hope to be home before the magic hour passes.
Look at the bright side, the magic hour passes way before mine will. LOL.
Sometimes it doesn't pay to live on the West Coast.
I have a really stupid question to ask. How come you and Drac TM all the time when you are in Plan B. Is there no intermediary you could use?
I am starting to process what my Plan B will look like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Bugsy is not in PLAN B..
I keep telling her this and she ignores me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
LOL
That's the best laugh I have had all day long. Thank you, I needed that.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
So, here I am on the last day of one of the hardest years of my life. While I am oh so glad that it is almost over,,,I am so unsure of the coming year. I don't really know what my hopes and dreams are for the next 12 months. That is not like me at all. No matter what has happened in my life up until now, I've always started off the New Year with a positive thought process and some thoughts of how it's going to be a good year.
Well Bugs, now it's my turn to say that I could have written these very words. That's exactly how I feel right now too. I was just talking about NY resolutions with a friend, and my first one was to spend the year alone and getting to know me. Not that I planned on having any other type of R, but by alone I mean spending a lot of time with myself. Learn to become happy alone and fill myself with me. Boy, does that sound conceited or what. Not meant to be that way though. I think you know what I mean.
((((bugs))))
Hope you have a good NYE.....
Happy New Year, Bugs
Like I told Sis, 2008 is going to be so much better! Guaranteed.
Happy New Year Bugs,
(((Hugs)))
Still
Happy New Year everyone.
Glad to finally mark that last day/holiday off the calendar. It was a tough night. Had a decent time w/the family. DD & I came home early. Bless her heart, she wanted to stay up for the New Year,,but didn't make it.
As usual, I spent it alone. He was 'out', which hurt, as I loved New Year's Eve parties and he never wanted to go out on New Year's with me. More often than not, he'd go to sleep and I'd bring in the New Year alone. So, I guess it wasn't all that different in that way this year. Though, like James, I'd love to have had him beside me on the couch with our kids asleep in the same house with us.
Sigh.
I'm going to ask DD if she'd like to go ice skating today. I have done it once in about 25 years. Last year went with us once and it was really nice.
Gotta run,,,DD is ready for breakfast.
Is it an inside or outside rink?
Have a great first day of January
Good morning.
DD chose not to go ice skating - we have choices of either inside or outside rinks,,,but it was waaay too cold to even consider an outside rink.
Instead we played at home. Found a fun website game about horses that she loved, went to a movie, then out to eat at BK where they had a playground, then home for a dog bath and more playing & movies.
Talked to my Mom who commented about how terribly insecure DD was on New Year's Eve. Since she returned from being with Drac, I haven't been able to be more than 3 ft away from her for more than 5 min. at a time. We agreed that we need to wait and see how she is once we get back into the routine with school, etc and see how she does then.
She has always been Mommy's girl, but has never been clinging like this and I am concerned. I won't hesitate to get her into counseling. I talked to the school counselor at the beginning of the year about our sitch, as well as her teacher, and they have been keeping an eye on her at school,,,,,but we didn't want to make a huge deal about it if it wasn't necessary - - no need to 'create' an issue where there wasn't one. I'm afraid now that there may be one.
She told me several times yesterday (in addition to every day since she returned home) how she did not want to see Drac tonight (his usual visitation night). She asked to call him last night earlier than normal, and I said OK. She told Drac that she did not want to see him tonight. I didn't listen to the conversation, but I do know that the call was extremely short.
I am sure that his feelings were hurt. He more than likely blames ME in some way, but that's not mine to own. HIS R with her is his responsibility. I can not fix it for them. All I can do is try to help HER as best I can.
I'm not offically working today, but need to ck in on email and vm.
Have a great day everyone.
(((Bugs)))
Yup.. was a tough holiday all around, but it sounds like you handled yourself well.
Simply embrace the day as one day closer to God's promise that he will not let his faithful suffer, and that even our pain and grief is to serve His greater purpose for our lives.
We have these opportunities to learn about ourselves.. even if that learning is that we are stronger people than we thought we were.. and getting stronger every day for what we go through.
Walk the path of righteousness with your head held high, and place your hand in the Lords, and let Him lead you.. You will not be dissapointed.
Good job owning what is yours and letting Drac have what is his.
Just wondering how the "non-visit" went.
I think its great she felt strong enough to tell her dad she didn't want to see him. I think its a taste of things to come for him....
Expect him to punish you for it....
Find ways to prevent him from doing that....
Will this vacation be for you and DD, or will DSS be allowed to come too? Have you started planning yet???
Hey BuGs, I can't believe she ACTUALLY said something to him...
((((BUGS))))
It's tough watching the damage...
I don't know what else to say today...it's been so busy here at work, and then yesterday...so I'm here again, showing my support! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Hi everyone.
Thanks for checking in. Well, the consensus IRL is in. From Drac to every family member and friend I have there is total agreement - -
#1. I should have told Drac about DD not wanting to visit instead of letting her tell him
#2. I need to find a way to communicate with Drac about the kids
#3. It's not 'fair', but I need to be the bigger person and put aside all of my personal pain to do what is right for DD
#4. I need to just let it all go, it's time to move on and start talking to him
#5. It's only 'natural' based on Drac not knowing what's going on with DD that he would assume that I've coached her not to see him and it is all an effort on my part to keep her away from him and deny him his rights
Yep, it's been a cake walk these last 2 days.
I am only concerned with 1 thing, and that's my baby girl. I want only to do what is best for her.
Oh, of course the fact that Drac is taking me back to court over the sale of the property proceeds is another nice minor detail.
Whoo hoo! So to celebrate all of this fun, I'm having a glass of champagne left over from New Years. Thank goodness I have a great stopper that keeps in the bubbles!
I found my favorite kitchen towel yesterday that has my favorite Bette Davis Quote -
"There comes a time in a woman's life when the ONLY thing that helps is a glass of champagne"
That's me tonight!
The lesson in this is to do what YOU want to do...
POWER TO THE GODDESSES!!
Well, Mimi in that regard I can say so far so good!
I AM doing what I want to right this minute. Having a glass of champagne and unwinding.
I firmly made the decision this morning to turn this over to God. I will continue to pray about it until I have an answer. THEN and only then will I do anything or,,,,nothing. Depending on what the answer is.
Thanks for the Goddess Support!
#3. It's not 'fair', but I need to be the bigger person and put aside all of my personal pain to do what is right for DD
Bugsy, what do YOU think is right for your DD? Not even OUR opinion matters here. It matters most what you believe to be true, not to be EASY, but to be true. Would communicating directly with DRAC make a world of a difference?
YOu could also pose this question to your friends and family, asking HOW they believe this will save your daughter the issues she is going to have to deal with stemming from this divorce. Do they believe that YOU talking to DRAC will really help, or if your daughter learning how to communicate with her father will help? If there is an emergency, either physical or emotional, won't DRAC be made aware? If your DD needs counseling, won't DRAC be made aware, and be given details as to his participation? If so, then why the need for DIRECT communication? If you use the intermediary, you can tell DRAC all about your daughters problems.
When my DS was having his emotional turmoil, I let PWC know. I let him know about the counseling I was looking into, let him know the things that DS was saying and doing, and let it go, not looking for a response, but looking to inform his father of his issues.
In my life, when I was in Plan B, nobody understood, but rarely did anyone discourage me either, and if they did, I respectfully chose to tell them that I would discuss my life with them no further.
As for the champagne, I, too, have one of those nifty little stoppers, which I loooooove.
Never let them get you down, Bugsy. Never.
In my life, when I was in Plan B, nobody understood, but rarely did anyone discourage me either, and if they did, I respectfully chose to tell them that I would discuss my life with them no further.
AND SO THERE...Spoken just like MY SL SISTER GODDESS...RIGHT ON! RIGHT ON! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I had to do that a couple of times. Those relationships are not strained today, probably because I spoke up, and drew that line in the sand. I will not be bullied. Some people didn't understand why PWC wasn't 'kicked to the curb', and some STILL don't understand.
Only I have the answers, and only I have to live this life. It's MY LIFE, and as Frank says "I'll do it my way".
This [email]CR@POLA[/email] just pisses me off. Grown people, pushing their own agenda, just so they can live in more comfort, instead of thinking hard on what the right thing might be, and looking at the situation from all angles. It's like posting here, if I am not even close to educated enough on a certain subject, I don't respond. I read along to other responses so that I can learn, but I keep my mouth shut.
SL,
Thanks sweetie! What you said makes a whole lot of sense to me, and really is what I've been thinking about all day.
So often I start to say to people IRL, "Well, the BEST thing for DD is to have her family INTACT", but knowing the platitudes I would get in response, I bite my tongue.
I know that we all struggle the fine line of knowing that there is a way to restore our M, keeping that bit of love/hope alive, when the entire world (mostly the WS) are saying otherwise and thinking we are CRAZY for having an ounce of hope or even Desire to try to fix things with the WS.
Up until now, I've had few actively discourage me from Plan B. Now, it's as if I have reached the expiration date & it's the magical hour of 'time to be friendly for DD's sake".
Drac does need to know more about what she's doing, how's she's feeling, and what seems to be going on. That can be done without us being 'friendly' - IMHO. I can supply the facts. What he does with them is up to him.
Up until now, the few times I've tried to bring up concerns, he's dismissed them as being about "me". That's the thing,,,,, that no matter WHAT I do or HOW I do it in this regard, it's going to be turned back on me. I think the opinion is that 'talking' to him will lessen that probability. I disagree.
The only thing *I* see about talking to him about it is that it makes it easier on HIM and harder on me.
At least that's where I am at the moment.
What about YOU, Bugsy?
Why do your have to put everyone else FIRST?
People are casting you in the SUPERWOMAN ROLE like YOU don't matter or that YOU don't count.
It seems so DISRESPECTFUL of you and INSENSITIVE.
And I DON'T THINK it's BEST for your DD for you to be FRIENDS with him...
I'm not even going THERE right now...
Yeah, what Mimi said.
YOU MATTER.
How is you being friends with DRAC going to help your daughter and DRAC? Only they can help themselves, with you helping DD in how to better communicate and face her own fears, and give her all the loving support you can give to her.
I know that you know these answers, Bugsy, but I wonder if you might want to communicate these things to the croud of THEY that are pushing this so hard.
Thanks ladies!
I think it's not that 'they' don't value me, but rather view the sitch as one where they know that Drac is not capable of understanding and seeing what DD is going through without my help. That it is unfair to a 7yr old to be in the position she is in and that it is my responsibility to run interference for her. I know it's not intentional disrespect of me on their part.
While she didn't say much about it last night, DD did mention that Drac started in with her last night about 'what does she want to change about the current arrangement' and told her how much he really, really wants to spend time with her.
He doesn't understand that what she needs most is not questions but rather for him to make it feel 'safe' for her to share her feelings with him. And that is not something he will accept hearing from ME. It would be 'old Bugs' telling Drac what to do,,,,treating him like a child and I'm not going to do it. It would accomplish nothing.
So,,,am continuing to pray for guidance. We'll see how the weekend goes. DSS will be here.
Mom told me yesterday that she is going to call the kids and then come take them shopping this weekend for them to buy me a birthday gift, as we all know that Drac won't do it. She doesn't want them to feel bad to have my birthday come around and for them to have nothing to give me. I almost cried when she told me that.
It was a tough night. I didn't sleep well. I dreamt that I was living in a different house and that we were robbed. It was horrible. I was thinking the other day that since I am technically renting for now, I need to get some renter's insurance, so guess my subconcious was reminding me to get that done! First phone call I'll be making this morning for sure!
Time for a shower.
Perhaps a good way to get them to back off would say - "so you bought his story hook line and sinker - I'm not playing. This is my daughter we're talking about and my step son. I'm doing what's best for them and I'm not going to explain to people on HIS side instead of theirs. I know what I'm doing; and I'm working with the best advisors in the business." Then walk away and let them stew on it. If they try to draw you in - just say "Let's stay on good terms and talk about something else." That warns them that the subject isn't up for discussion.
Don't EVER put yourself in a situation where they can invade your Plan B as Drac Proxies.
Kayla,
Thanks for the suggestion!
What I am really struggling with is family members. Who I totally love and respect.
I don't have time right now to go into it, but will try to post later. I have to get DD ready for school
I had to do that a couple of times. Those relationships are not strained today, probably because I spoke up, and drew that line in the sand. I will not be bullied. Some people didn't understand why PWC wasn't 'kicked to the curb', and some STILL don't understand.
Only I have the answers, and only I have to live this life. It's MY LIFE, and as Frank says "I'll do it my way".
This [email]CR@POLA[/email] just pisses me off. Grown people, pushing their own agenda, just so they can live in more comfort, instead of thinking hard on what the right thing might be, and looking at the situation from all angles. It's like posting here, if I am not even close to educated enough on a certain subject, I don't respond. I read along to other responses so that I can learn, but I keep my mouth shut.
AMEN Sistah!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Your post says it all!!!!!!
((((bugs))))
Just wanted to say that I'm following along and cheering for you....
(((BUGS)))
Its more comfortable for "people" when there is no conflict.
I think the majority of the population are conflict avoiders to a degree.
They become uncomfortable with your ongoing "conflict" so to soothe themselves, they push you to end the conflict.
Bottom line: Drac has behaved dishonorably. He is not the sort of person I would associate with. Just because you share a child does not mean you need to share anything else.
Figure out a good communication plan that does not include you interacting with him. No more emails, phone calls, voice messages, texts.
Mimi is right. You are not in Plan B.
I think LG's suggestion was a good one. Sit down with him, let him know that you are going back into a true Plan B and WHY (Drac; you treated me worse than anyone ever has. I don't need people in my life that do that. You behaved terribly and have shown no remorse. I can't let you be a part of my life if that is your character.)
Then let him participate in developing a communication plan that doesn't involve direct contact with you.
Bugs:
I liked THIS from you:
Up until now, the few times I've tried to bring up concerns, he's dismissed them as being about "me". That's the thing,,,,, that no matter WHAT I do or HOW I do it in this regard, it's going to be turned back on me. I think the opinion is that 'talking' to him will lessen that probability. I disagree.
The only thing *I* see about talking to him about it is that it makes it easier on HIM and harder on me.
He is DRAC. Repelled by your very existence.
HE doesn't like your requirements to have a relationship with you?
Fine, let him change.
IT's about to get even more stupid for Drac. Look how much TIME he really spends with DD? Most times its "lets go to X, Y or Z's place" so DD can play, hang out, or spend the night with, X, Y & Z. But Drac is doing something else. Yeah, he's probably AROUND, but its one of the reasons that she is hesitant to go to his place, she senses that SHE is out of place, and a bother. Like DSS has been all these years. DD is just finally starting to experience it. Sad.
So, I will reinterate your Point:
"The only thing *I* see about talking to him about it is that it makes it easier on HIM and harder on me."
And the rest of them? Family? Good Friends? etc? The "Be NICE now crowd"? Sure, you can be NICE. Once someone STOPS poking you with a Stick, apologizes for it, and trys to treat the wound. But not until then.
LG
Bugs:
I was listening to the tv today to Joyce Meyer. When you need motivation, that the woman that can give it to you.
THen I listened to Charles Stanley on the way into work. I was so pumped up I felt like I was floating.
We have to remember, our husbands are going against God. We aren't to focus on them, right now they are like an anchor in the sea. Focus on them and we'll be in the debths of the mucky water. We are to be like Paul. We are to put our past behind us and focus only on God.
We are to keep praying for our husbands. The more we pray and have others pray for our husbands, the more chances they will have. The more they turn from God the more pride they will exhibit. And remember before there is a major turn for Good there will be an explosion of Bad, but God is there always for us.
Just ask yourself each and every day, " How will I serve my Lord today." Focus on that, and everything else will fall into place because the more we focus on and follow God's will the more pieces of his puzzle he can complete for us. We are not to just read his word daily but study his word and follow his instructions.
I am pumped and ready to read more of his plan. Hope you are too !!!
God bless, and don't worry about what evil is going to be done, worry about what Good will be accomplished. Focus on what you need to pray for and do it, then let God do the rest.
Heya Bugs... had to find your thread on PAGE THREE! What's up? How are you?
YEAH!!! What's up? you've been TOOOO quiet!
I miss you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
We miss you Bugsy..
Oh yes we do...
(((Bugs)))
Thanks all for checking on me!
I'm doing fine. I've just re-arranged some priorities these last several days.
Gave my FULL attention to the kiddos for the weekend.
Took the kids to a new church, which they LOVED. We all agreed that this is where we want to attend regularly!!
Am spending more time with God. Went to the gym.
Focusing on me. I really want to be in the moments of my life more and not in the details of Plan B, Plan D, concerned with Drac, etc. Just want to be in my life, doing good things for me. So, stepped back a bit from here for a break.
I've been trying to read and stay up with everyone, just haven't had much to contribute lately.
Gotta run for now.
Thanks again for checking on me,,,,,,it's so nice to know that you all care!
This is AWESOME Bugs!!!
I'm so glad to hear you're doing so well. Your focus IMO is right where it should be.
After my self-care weekend I'm feeling -MUCH- better because I'm not continually thinking about WW.. it's -so- much healthier, and I'm finding that I'm actually ENJOYING days instead of just getting through them.
I hope your results are as good or better!
(((Bugs)))
PLAN BUGSY sounds GREAT!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Yes, Bugs
We miss you.
We have to remember, our husbands are going against God. We aren't to focus on them, right now they are like an anchor in the sea. Focus on them and we'll be in the debths of the mucky water. We are to be like Paul. We are to put our past behind us and focus only on God.
We are to keep praying for our husbands. The more we pray and have others pray for our husbands, the more chances they will have. The more they turn from God the more pride they will exhibit. And remember before there is a major turn for Good there will be an explosion of Bad, but God is there always for us.
Just ask yourself each and every day, " How will I serve my Lord today." Focus on that, and everything else will fall into place because the more we focus on and follow God's will the more pieces of his puzzle he can complete for us. We are not to just read his word daily but study his word and follow his instructions.
I am pumped and ready to read more of his plan. Hope you are too !!!
God bless, and don't worry about what evil is going to be done, worry about what Good will be accomplished. Focus on what you need to pray for and do it, then let God do the rest.
This is amazing and SO TRUE. Thank you INAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow Bugs, what an awesome way to live. I am cheering for you and watching with awe on how well you are doing. It's so nice when we forget the "sick one" and just begin to live our life for what's just in front of us - our kids and mostly ourselves. What awesome things G-d wants us to discover about him and about US.
Hugs Bugs........:)
Queenie
Good early morning!
Not sleeping, so finally got up and came by here. Spent some time on the Goddess thread, which is always good therapy!
I am really doing well. Had a couple of email from Drac, but forwarded to someone else to edit and advise. Nothing really important, one email about DSS's grades improving, another wanting to 'share' about DSS doing well. I just got the highlights and let it go.
DSS gets his report card tomorrow - - I have it marked on my calendar and will call and talk to him after school about it.
DD gets hers tomorrow, too. Drac will be picking her up, so he'll see it in her school stuff. *I* will be attending her awards ceremony tomorrow am at school. I don't know if Drac is going - I doubt it. I didn't send him any communication asking him about it. If he went through her backpack this week when he had her, then he knows about it. If he didn't, then he doesn't and that is his problem.
I wasn't even tempted to respond - no feeling of unease about it like I used to have.
I've really been more focused at work. Been to the gym. Gone to church. I spend time every morning alone with God before I do anything else and it really has helped me immensely.
Tomorrow we close on the last piece of property left to settle from the D. The closing is scheduled at 4pm, but I am going in the morning to sign my part so as not to run into Drac. That's one of the nice things about small town business,,,,more flexibility on this kind of thing!
The 'proceeds', such as they are, are probably going into an escrow account while Drac tries to take me back to court over them. His A messed up and is now trying to cover his rear end by taking me back to court. My A is 99% sure it will resolve in my favor.
You know what? No matter how it ends up, it will be in my favor because it's in God's hands. He's got control here and I don't have to worry about it!
Think I'm out on the town tomorrow night with the girls! Think I'll try to pick up a Goddess outfit for the evening!
Well,,,,guess I'd better atleast TRY to get some more rest.
LOL...you sound like me with the sleeping thing...perhaps I need to open that bottle of wine I have in the frig...I'm not one to drink alone...LOL
So, no uneasiness about responsing...like me with the TM...what is that? you know, I actually thought when I read it "What will he think if he doesn't hear from me?" AND THEN, I thought who cares, I hope that it adds to his fall...IS that mean?
Well, I see you are dealing with the report card thing...YS's great, OS, not much different then last 9 weeks...I can tell you that this week I have seen 2 A's, a B, and a perfect on a pop quiz...plus conduct had come up to an A...I think that was the last week before school...I'm not really sure...I think it was before...
Anyway, both of them have filled their jar's up and earned their place to go...so that will be this weekend...the pebbles have returned to my glass vase...I am full to give away again!
Well, i have to go...CUSTOMERS TO TAKE CARE OF...things to do...TGIF!!!
I can't believe it's Sunday night already. Where did the weekend go??
Friday night I went out with the girls and had a lot of fun. Saw an outstanding blues singer at a really fun place. WOW - - talk about a gift. This woman could sing!
Saturday, just worked around the house, took the Bo to the groomers for a bath, did some shopping, ate out and back home early. I was a bit tired from being out too late Friday night (Sat morning!)
Today, went to church and out to breakfast. Then relaxed around the house, did a bit more cleaning/laundry. BabyBugs got home from Drac's. Was a bit tough having to hear about the HO coming over for an evening of fun & games. Atleast she didn't spend the night! I did still get that horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach when I heard about it. I just quickly switched the subject. BabyBugs was so sweet about it, concerned with my feelings.
Then, as she was getting ready for bed, she decided she was ready to FINALLY pull out the very, very, loose tooth she has. It's the first one to come out & she's been SO excited wanting it to happen. I let her do it totally on her own & she was THRILLED!! We had to call the entire family,,,Drac first.
I didn't think she would EVER get to sleep she was so wound up about it! Well, the tooth fairy is going to leave a bit of $ for her AND a brand new pink bible with a ladybug on the outside. She's wanted a new Bible for church & I found it for her Sat night when I was shopping. This seems the perfect opportunity to have the tooth fairy give it to her. Now I"M getting excited about her finding it in the morning!!
Guess I'll turn in and try not to dream about the Drac. I have been doing really well. Knowing that he's not any where near to being 'broken' or having any desire to be with me and likely, he never will hurts me, as I do still love him, but it's been manageable. The knowledge that the HO is still around just cuts and re-opens the wound. I really hate her. Having her around my baby just makes me so angry. But, I can only control ME - - so I"m working on letting that go. It's outta my hands and has been all along.
Gotta go play tooth fairy!!
Wow, Bugs. Highs and lows. Sorry for the Drac/HO triggers. It's nice that BabyBugs already knows it hurts you. You'll get to a point where she knows what to tell you and what not to tell you. It's a fine line--you have to be available to listen to whatever she needs to talk about but you still want to protect yourself. It sounds like you're doing a really good job.
I know exactly how you feel about having her around your kids.
(((Bugs)))
But the tooth news is very cool. The first one is always exciting. Around our house, the tooth fairy has been known to show up multiple evenings and leave notes. One of those fun milestones.
SD- that's really cool! That's the things that they will remember when they are older...
BUGS- I love the idea of the Bible...looking forward to hearing what BB thought about it!
In my FU convo with STBX this Sat. night, I said something about not talking bad about him and hearing from OP THINGS THAT HE WAS DOING...I told him that I asked OP to stop telling me what he was doing but it wasn't like I could ask the kids to stop, that wouldn't exactly be promoting a postive R with them...told him I have worked my @ss off for the R that I have with them, that I didn't have to ask questions about what he was doing when they were with him, they just came to me...
Laid into him for calling me a B!tch in front of them and getting on them about them passing info to me...I chewed him @ss up and down...told him that he didn't realize the damage that he's done and one day he will!
Is it horrible to want to ask to his suffering by being REAL with him?
Sorry I should have added that to my threat...LOL
Point being is that I understand where you are coming from...so you are not alone...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Well, after a couple of pretty Down days, I think I am battling back.
The reality of the ho spending time with my kids really hit me hard. I decided to acknowledge the pain so that I could try to let it go. I'm getting there,,,,,albiet a bit slowly. Everyone around me seemed to notice that I was down,,,,,,,,,,,which I really hate it when that happens!
A co-worker friend told me today that she'd heard the rumor they were back together. She is of the opinion that the ho is 'playing' Drac. And, she is probably right. The thing I realized tonight is perhaps that is a GOOD thing. He hadn't hit rock bottom. He hasn't a clue as to what he has lost in me, as he was/is still addicted to her. Them "getting back together" may be just what is necessary for him to finally see their R for what it truly is, and then possibly for him to hit that bottom when her true colors finally come to light.
As long as my KIDS can be kept from the fallout and the pain! THAT is my #1 concern. I can't control that he is bringing her around again. I really HATE it, but I can't control it.
I am curious to see if he realizes that he has the kids again this weekend, due to the MLK holiday on Monday, he is to have them til Monday night. Normally, this is MY scheduled weekend. As such, he'd have DD Wed and Thurs after school. Thursday is my bday, so no matter what, she is supposed to be with me. We'll see if he tried to pick her up - - - I'm not going to remind him. My mom is picking her up early, so it won't be an issue no matter what he does or doesn't do.
I thought about having him notified that it's not his weekend, but I stopped myself. It's not my job to remind him of the schedule that HE created. I have updated the online calendar that I created and it shows everything thru the month of March. It's his choice to use it or not. Let the ho keep track for him. Yeah,,, right!
Ok, enough of this! I'm going to get DD ready & in bed. Then, I think a nice hot bath is in order - - with a glass of wine, candles, and lots & lots of bubbles!
Bugs,
I just had to pop in to say that I LOVE LOVE the quote from your Mom. Every time I read one of your posts, it just stares at me as if it is trying to penetrate into my hardhead!
It makes me laugh every time and lordy knows we all need that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm glad you like it!! My mom is GREAT! I don't know what I'd do without her,,,especially through all of this.
It's funny how you don't realize the little sayings that your parents pass on to you,,,,,,,,until you start saying them to your own kids!
One of our other favorite things to say is "Everything in life would be so much easier if everyone would just think the way WE do!"
We look alike, think alike, act alike,,,,,,,oh Lord! I'm in BIG trouble in the years to come! Not only for myself, but because of DD,,,,,,,,she's another little clone!
Or
I should say, Goddess in Training! I learned a lot of Goddess behavior from my Grandmother and my Mom. Mimi & I hit it off in the same way. BabyBugs is just like us so far!! I'm proud to say that she is in great company!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
As long as my KIDS can be kept from the fallout and the pain! THAT is my #1 concern. I can't control that he is bringing her around again. I really HATE it, but I can't control it.
What can I say, Bugs? Some people deserve the shovel. Would that I could really deliver it upon Drac, as if it might knock some sense into him.
So, when is the last time you wrote a letter to Drac reminding him what a [censored] he is and what a mistake he's making? Not to send to him, of course, but you could always post it on here. I (for one) will read it (I know you will read mine when I need to not send one to the SCQ). You have every right to be angry, so let yourself feel it.
And then put it away and go about your day. Take care of yourself.
How many candles with the bath? Are they scented? Are you a bath salt kind of gal?
(((((((Bugs)))))))
Them "getting back together" may be just what is necessary for him to finally see their R for what it truly is, and then possibly for him to hit that bottom when her true colors finally come to light.
I hope his falling enlightens him to HIS true colors, too, because that is really what is important.
HOOOOORAY for the bath! Calgon take me away! So, what's Bugsy doing for her birthday?
Does BabyBugs understand that Ho is the reason Daddy doesn't want to be with Mommy?
I just think that is part of her world she should understand.....
Ho is not her friend....Ho wrecked her family....
JMO.
Just taking a quick break here at work,,,, although I shouldn't be!! Need a mental relaxation moment!
SL - - you are right on the mark that the important thing is for Drac to see and want to change HIMSELF. To do that, he has to hit the bottom. I think perhaps with the help of the HO, he will get there and potentially faster than if he is without her. I don't know why I feel so strongly that this is exactly what is in the works and that it IS going to happen (sooner rather than later too). For some odd reason I really believe that's what's happening. Does that sound crazy?
In fact, I did tell my co-worker friend that it's sad that instead of realizing what he's done wrong, owning up to it and making some good changes in his life, he's falling for her bullshite once again. Too bad for him to go down that road that will lead to suffering when he could have such a GREAT life. HIS loss.
Lexxxy,,, oh yes. DD is well aware the role the HO has played in breaking up the family. She knows very well that is it NOT right to have ANYONE else in your life when you are married. Now, at 7 years old the more the ho is around, then she is going to come around to accepting her being there eventually. DD does not want to hurt or upset her Daddy and will not misbehave even though she is uncomfortable with the ho being around. It's one of those things that she has yet to be able to discuss with him.
I am very factual with DD about the ho and what has happened. I don't tell her to DO or not do anything if/when the ho is around, as that would be unfair to put her in that position. But, for example, over the summer, DD told me at one point that "Ho is really nice". I calmly replied to her that I am sure that there are times when the Ho treats her nicely, but that nice people do not date men who are married already, and that is what the ho has done, so I do not believe she is a nice person.
Well,,,,,,,as for more FUN subjects. For my birthday, the first thing that I did was order flowers for myself to be delivered to work. I did it last year, too and although it felt silly, it really helped me feel better that day! Then, Friday night, it's a girl's night out. Everyone spending the night at my house, so guess it's also a slumber party!! Then, on Saturday, I think I'll treat myself to a manicure/pedicure!
Oh, and after I get my year end bonus, I am treating myself to laser hair removal! I won't say what areas I am having treated! LOL!
Bugs,
He hadn't hit rock bottom.
I so hope this happens to my WH.
He hasn't a clue as to what he has lost in me.
I pray daily that I learn to understand that he is the LOSER in all this and NOT ME.
Bugs, your ability to treat yourself and take care of yourself impresses me so much. I love reading what you do for yourself. I hope that one day I can do that.
As parents it is our job to model right and wrong behavior and it's important for us to teach our children that what is going on is wrong. I hope I said that right. My children want to have NOTHING to do with their dad because they recognize how sick and wrong it is. I am very blessed that he has NO influence on them and isn't able to teach them values that are SICK AND DISGUSTING.
I assume you didn't all of a sudden know how to treat yourself. How did you learn that?
I should say, Goddess in Training! I learned a lot of Goddess behavior from my Grandmother and my Mom.
Same for me..have to say GRANDMOTHERS...both of them would not leave home without their LIPSTICK and "ROUGE".. up into their late 80s..
And speaking of MOTHERS, when I walk towards a large mirror sometimes, I honestly think it's her.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
My H recently told me this story. A man recently asked my him if I look anything like my mother, my H said Yes. The man said: "You sure are LUCKY..cause (MY MOTHER'S NAME) is one of the most BEAUTIFUL women I has ever seen"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
It's not about the looks though: "PRETTY IS..AS PRETTY DOES"...my grandmother's saying...
Your grandmother was a wise woman, Mimi.
Well, there is an email in my in box from Drac. As I have "preview" mode, I can see there is no content to the body, just the Subject Line "Happy Birthday"
I don't know which is worse,,,,,,,,,,,,such a crappy email acknowledgement or None at all???
I really want to reply and say "Wow! Thanks! The warmth and heartfelt sentiment of your message is overwhelming!".
{{{{{{{{{{{{Bugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Remember they are MONSTERS, it's all ABOUT THEM.
They aren't capable of anything that seems remotely caring. And you are right, IT FLIPPIN HURTS.
What are you doing for yourself today to treat you like the Goddess you are?
(((Bugs)))
It doesn't matter Bugsy.. you can't -make- him care about you the way YOU want him to.
What is it that you really want from him? A birthday present? Would it be good enough to overcome the hurt.. or would it be a shallow attempt at alleviating his guilt? What if it was a present that didn't show that he put a lot of thought into it at all?
It's no big deal.. let go of it Bugs.. chest out, head up. It's yer birthday.. don't let -him- spoil it by bringing you down.
Happy Birthday by the way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Happy Birthday to You
Happy Birthday to You
Happy Birthday Bugs
Happy Birthday to You
Chag Sameach...... That's Hebrew..
Tell me what you are doing for yourself....
BUGSY..MY KINDRED SISTER..
I'm CELEBRATING your BIRTH, TODAY!!!
((((BUGSY))))
Bugs, hit "delete" and don't acknowledge it at all.
Happy Birthday from me.
Thanks everyone for the birthday wishes!
It was a good day! Lots of folks calling, emailing, and sending cards. Mom and DD had a "party' setup when I got home from work with decorations, cake and presents!
DD didn't want to go out,,,,she wanted just her & Mommy time for my birthday which was just fine with me. She was pretty tired and almost fell asleep on the couch before her dance class,,,,,,so I gave in and let her skip last night. We cooked a nice birthday dinner.
Then, the little sweetheart insisted on giving me a "real" back massage with candle light and nice lotion! I've had some expensive massages, but none of them were better than hers as it was done with such love!
It appears that Drac is of the impression that this is my weekend,,,,and doesn't realize it is HIS due to the MLK holiday. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to clue him in on it or not. AND, if I do, WHEN to do it. He's supposed to pick up DD from latchkey on his weekends and I just hate the thought that if I don't let him know, that she is going to end up there at 6pm with no one having come to get her!! It would be for her sake that I'm even considering helping him out with the schedule.
Gotta run for now,,,,,,,,,
Morning Bugs,
I'm glad you had a nice birthday. You were in all our thoughts. Have a great day.
Then, the little sweetheart insisted on giving me a "real" back massage with candle light and nice lotion! I've had some expensive massages, but none of them were better than hers as it was done with such love!
Nothing I could say would be a better birthday wish than that. I'm happy for you, Bugs.
Belated Happy Birthday (((Bugs)))
Bugs:
I know it is so hard on you, as it is me when my WS is living with the OW. I have my DD coming home with scrap books that they make there. It hurts, but it allows God to strenghen us.
Our WS have not hit rock bottom and that will end up hurting them. It may even be better if Drac and OW end up living together. Mine is beginning to realize that it's not greener on the other side, and when DD was with him this past weekend she saw that they were arguing and that they didn't kiss and hug as much. That is so great to hear !!
One of the things that I learned this past week was that for true honest repentance with GOD you must be willing to let go of any and all things that are not going to help your christian walk with GOD. Right now your WS and mine are not helping us at all. Let go, and Let God.
Just keep praying more specifically and more often for his salvation. You are doing Great Bugs !!!!
Pray 1 Corinthians 10:13 for Drac: - " No temptation has overtaken Drac except sush as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow Drac to be tempted beyond what he is able, but with the temptation will also make the WAY OF ESCAPE, the He may be able to bear it.
***********************************************************
Lord, we pray that you would strenthen Drac to resist any temptations that come his way. Deliver him from evils such as adultery, pornography, alcohol, gambling and perversion. Remove the temptation especially in the area of adultery.
Make him strong where he is weak. Help Drac to rise above anything that seeks to erect a stronghold in his life. Lord, You've said that whoever has no rule over his own spirit is like a city broken down without walls. (Prov 25:28
I pray that Drac will not be broken down by the power of Evil, but raised up by the Power of God. Please lead someone to his life that will say or do something that may refocus his eyes upon you Lord. Help Drac to take charge over his own spirit in order to help him resist anything and anyone who becomes a temptation.
Lord, I know that the divorce is final, but the commitment and Love still stand. I have faith in you that you are moving that mountain to restore my marriage. I trust that you are taking care of Drac at this present time. Thank you so much for that. Thank you for trying to reach deep down into Drac's heart to try to soften and restore it to the Loving person I fell in Love with.
Lord, we know that for Drac to come to you he must hit rock bottom in order to give him complete dependance upon you. I ask that you allow him to hit rock bottom so that he can depend on you. THank you for allowing me to depend on you. Thank you for strenthening my life. Thank you for giving me your peace in this matter. And thank you especially for sending your son to the cross so that I could have this blessed Life. Lord, You are a great father, and I look forward to your best in my life. I ask this all in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.
Bugs:
We are wondering what's happened to you....
LG
Hey LG!
I'm still hanging around, reading threads from time to time, but not posting much. I've found that taking a break from here is better for me right now. I am able to keep focus where it should be (on me & kids) VS on Drac when I am not talking about it here every day.
For the most part, I am doing really well. I spend more time in Bible study and it is really helped me a lot. I also have my sister playing a modified mediator role for me. I have her read and "interpret" emails from Drac for me.
Recent events with him have been DD "accidentially" seeing part of the [censored] 2 movie at the Ho's house. UGH!! Drac grilling DSS about what I say,,,,,,,,,and tons of accusations because of my honesty about telling the TRUTH vs LIES and LIES by Omission. He just twists everything around in his Fog to be about HIM and how he gets "so little time with his kids" .
BLAH BLAH BLAH.
I just don't engage and it feels fine to me. Since the Ho's full time back in the picture, he's tried several times to take digs and pokes at me,,,,,,,,,,,,I guess hoping for more fuel to help fantasyland remain exciting. WHATEVER. Bugs don't play that.
I spent MLK weekend painting DD's room. We are going to paint DSS's room this weekend. We went to the local Mardi Gras Dog Parade last week & had a BLAST! DD was disappointed when she went in to say hi to Drac & tell him about the parade,,,,because his reply was "Yes, I already KNOW that you were there. A friend of mine saw you".
Interesting that he gets reports on what we were doing.
She's ok,,,,,,,,,other than having to deal with the movie issue. SHE told me what went on. I did address it with Drac and then had another talk with her. She made me "pinky swear" not to tell him what she was going to say the 2nd time and then says "Mommy,,,, he LIED".
How horrible for a 7 yr old to have to point out that their parent is a liar!! I could have just kicked him in the cajones!
Instead, I determined that what is most important is my relationship with her and teaching her right from wrong. Obviously, I am doing a GOOD job!
She & DSS both love going to church. Last Sunday BabyBugs sang with her class in front of church for the very first time! I CRIED!! It was the most beautiful thing!
Thanks for checking on me. I really am doing well. Not dating. Not looking to date and I'm totally OK with my life right now.
Everything is in God's hands and there's nothing I can't do with his support.
I haven't left,,,, and am not going to. Just sitting back and taking care of us in Plan Bugs.
((((BUGS))))
You are doing a great job. He may be taking digs at you because he wants you to become jealous. He wants to know that you still care. He wants and needs to know that he is still an important part of your life even though you are divorced.
Don't give him the satisfaction of letting him know that you do care. Just go on as if nothing is wrong. Keep your eyes and heart focused on Jesus and don't forget to pray for Drac.
It does not matter really if we are or are not reunited with our WS. What truly matters is their salvation. Keep praying for that. In the meantime baby bugs is growing closer to God, and soon she'll be like mine and minister to WS as well.
I admire you for your strength and I know you like me pull that from God. God will take us where he needs us....
God bless you....and your family.
Bugs:
That's why I bumped it.
Recovery takes many forms.
One, and the most important, is personal growth.
Your a better mother, future wife (if need be) and person now.
Sorry for the sitch, but your making lemonade.
I lurk more than post too. Our class has "graduated"
Hugs to bugs, DSS and her mother....
LG
Thanks, LG & INeed!
I finished getting ready for work after posting. DD woke early because she is sick, so I am working from home today to be with her.
It's Drac's night for visitation til 8pm. I will let him know that she is sick and should not go out tonight. Previously, I would be a nervous wreck about having to 'deal' with him in any form.
NOW, it's just a fact of life. However he reacts is up to him and it STAYS with him. The truth is that yes, I still love him, but I've gotten much further along in letting him go and letting him own his own stuff.
I had sis intrepret an email from him about DD playing softball this year in which I stated that we BOTH have to commit to adjusting our schedules to accomodate HER wishes. He gave some convoluded answer that boils down to the fact that he will continue to put HIMSELF first under the guise of it being in her best interest. It will be evident to all, including DD, what the truth is as it happens.
I can't change it. I can't control it. I CAN control me and do the best I can for her. That's it. I'm ok with that.
Yes, I AM a better person, a better Mom, and someday will be a better partner with the right person. I don't think much about that,,,,,,,it too will unfold as it should.
Someday soon I will likely post here more about my journey in my recovery but not yet.
Someday soon I will likely post here more about my journey in my recovery but not yet.
Verrry interesting, Bugsy! I'm suspicious.
Morning Bugs,
Everything is in God's hands and there's nothing I can't do with his support.
Absolutely the truth and G-d wants it that way.
For the most part, I am doing really well. I spend more time in Bible study and it is really helped me a lot.
What are you studying and how has it helped you?
I admire you for your strength and I know you like me pull that from God. God will take us where he needs us....
yes he will and he will also turn this into good, why he already has. Just not maybe how WE envision it, but G-ds plan is beyond anything we can imagine or hope for. We just have to be willing to surrender to his will and let him lead us.
Someday soon I will likely post here more about my journey in my recovery but not yet.
So much talk goes on here about the WW and the book that they read, or the scripts they say. I for one think one day we should all write a book on our personal journeys and glorify G-d on how he has worked hard in making the WS's life better through so many ways. It's funny, a few short months ago, I could never have even opened the door and today I can see a sparkle of light that there is good coming out of this.
WS need hope and you, and so many others are there hope. Always remember how much you are needed on here and missed when you are not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Bugs:
I have started the Joyce Meyer study on Battlefield of the Mind. Our group from Divorce care decided to continue so that we have support and this is the study we chose to do.
Get rid of your "Stinkin Thinkin" !! If we keep thinking back to the past, then we won't be able to stay focused on God. I don't know 'bout you, but my life is SOOOO much better now. Remember, you are not the same person today as you were 5 years ago, and 5 years from now you'll be an even differnt person yet.
Stay focused on God, and you'll see that sometimes it'll seem that you are floating on air.
You will still have down days like mine today. I was looking for receipts for the taxes, and found a valentine card from before, when He said " I love you more than I may say or show. I love you and want to show you and tell you more often. I love you so much".
Yes, I boo hoo'd for a while, but then I said "THANK YOU LORD, for reminding me that my husband used to love me like crazy. That person is still in there somewhere.
I can't change him now, but GOD CAN !! So I will fast and pray more and have faith that my Lord is accomplishing this miracle for me. I can't begin to say how long it'll take, but eventually I believe he'll be home.
Right now, they are not appealing to us, so forget about him, let god handle him and you be the best angel and goddess that you can be. Keep focusing on God and your life and remain faithful to your husband in prayer and asking others to pray for him as well.
It will all work out in the end.....
That's why I love Rejoice ministries.... I was reading of one family that was restored after a 2 year divorce, and there are many.... You just have to ask yourself, are you willing to wait on God to accomplish it ????
I can see my husband's heart softening. I can tell he's not happy with her. I can and will keep praying for his return....
Anyone out there please pray with me that Bill and Drac will come to salvation and have the blinders removed from their eyes, That they will have the temptations removed from their lives, and their heart will be softened, and they will know forgiveness and repentance in such a way that they will come home to their family.
Bugs I know you want it as much as I do.... Use the lord for your strength and keep the faith !!!!
Greetings one and all!
I figured today was as good as any for a 'bug bomb' update! LOL!
Still going through good days and bad days, but definately more good than bad.
Affairland continues to flourish and creep evermore into my children's lives. The Ho & her son spent the night at Drac's house when he had the kids last weekend. I don't like the fact that an 11 yr old boy that my daughter is not related to spent the night in her bedroom with her, but there's not a darn thing I can do about it. Needless to say, neither do I like that another woman is spending the night in Drac's bed while my children are there either. Again, nothing can be done about it.
I've known for some time that Drac has been looking to buy a house in the general area. He took DD to see it on Sunday. Funny, he chose a town in between the Ho's house & mine. It's a very nice house. The first thing DD told me was "It's A LOT bigger than our house, Mommy". Guess that was the first thing she heard about it. There's a bedroom for EACH of the kids for "when they spend the night".
I hate to admit that it bothers me, but it does. It still hurts. Alot.
Drac finally sent me an email saying that he was sure I'd heard about the house and telling me when he is moving. He's making DSS change schools mid-year for the move, which I am anxious about for DSS's sake, but yet another thing that i can not control. Drac says that DSS wants to do it now rather than at the beginning of the next school year. I have my doubts about that, but it is what it is.
I am glad that DSS will be closer to me and that all of us will have a lot less driving. I am also glad because it is my fear that DSS actually spends complete nights alone right now and that 'should' end after the move. It's much closer to Drac's work so that he won't be staying at the ho's house vs going home to be with DSS.
It does mean virtual full time Affairland life. I am trying to view that as a good thing. More time together just puts it that much closer to falling apart (again). The additional financial stress should make things interesting, too. The consistent thing I've heard about the ho (and which Drac himself has even said) is that she is HIGH maintenance & very much about the $$. I am sure part of the reason for the particular house includes impressing and pleasing her.
I've done some general calculations & while he can afford it, it's going to require some lifestyle changes for them. I am curious as to how he's coming up with the downpayment and what he's doing with his existing house. It will all become apparent in time, so I'll just wait to find out. I doubt if he realizes yet that it's going to be a tight fit on the financial end,,,,,,,,,,,,,,eating out, buying the ho the expensive gifts she expects, movies every weekend, etc may have to be scaled back.
Drac continues to tell DD to lie to me, or at minimum, to lie by omission. She isn't supposed to tell me when they do things with the Ho & her son. Stupid Drac. First, we all know that asking your kids to keep secrets like that is WRONG. Second, of COURSE she is going to tell me everything!! She knows it is wrong to lie.
What does he think he is accomplishing by trying to keep information from me?
EVERYONE knows what he is doing and WHO he is doing it with. What's the purpose of the secrecy?
Recently when DD was exposed to the jacka$$ movie at the ho's house, Drac's explaination omitted the fact that it happened at the Ho's house. *I* made it known that I knew that is where it happened and his response was that he "didn't mention that because he thought it would be like rubbing salt".
WTF? Like I am supposed to believe he gives a rat's a$$ about MY feelings??????? PUH-LEASE!
I just don't get that.
He knows what they are doing is WRONG. Why else continue to try to hide it?
As for me, as I said, for the most part I am doing well. Work is keeping me very busy. Have been traveling almost every week since the first of the year and expect that to continue for quite some time. I was supposed to be in South Dakota today, but the weather did not cooperate.
I've been attending church regularly and am really enjoying it. Had a great night out with friends last weekend & have had some opportunities for dating. I am keeping my options open on that front. I continue to work on myself, my changes, my attitidue, my growth. I am still learning a lot and am pleased with myself.
I still have times, like today, where I want to beat Drac over the head with a bat. Then, just like Cher in the movie Moonstruck, I want to slap him across the face and say "SNAP OUT OF IT!". The greatest percentage of my time is no longer spent on thinking about him, what he's doing, what he's thinking, what he's feeling, what THEY are planning, etc. That's a long way from where I was a year ago, that is for sure!
With Valentine's coming up this week, I've gotten several email 'ads' from the same company I used to send Drac a Valentine's Day gift last year,,,,,,,,,,,,all of them telling me how I can "Make Drac's Valentine's Day Special Again THIS year". Makes me want to vomit, so I blocked any further email from them.
I'll admit to you all here that for the first time in a very, very long time, I am having a battle of the "WHY". WHY did this happen? WHY does he continue to do this? WHY are they together? WHY can't he see what he's done? WHY doesn't he care about the pain he's caused? WHY? WHY? WHY?
So, I am hoping that by writing this all down, I can now stop spinning my wheels on that no where road of WHY and turn back on the Bug's Life Highway where the pavement is smooth, the traffic lights are always green, the scenery is beautiful, and the drive itself is the most wonderful adventure. The days of my being the bug on the windshield are over,,, thank God!!
Hope everyone is well. Hope to hear from some of you that, like me, don't post much these days. I'd love an update from
everyone!!
BTW - INeed, I am also cuurently reading Battlefield of the Mind! It has been very helpful to me! Thanks for checking in!
"WHY". WHY did this happen? WHY does he continue to do this? WHY are they together? WHY can't he see what he's done? WHY doesn't he care about the pain he's caused? WHY? WHY? WHY?
[email]D@mn..[/email] this crap doesn't go away?
*sigh*
This is where I'm at lately too.. as if maybe if I could just make -some kind- of sense of it.. I'd have a clear picture of what happened to my life.. be able to deal with it, and move on.
It's no longer WHY trying to control the situation.. it's all about trying to understand what happened to ME..
Sorry you're still on that ride... I hope you don't mind me saying that I pray I'm not there a year from now..
Hey, Bugs
I'm still on the ride, too, so I hear everything that you are saying.
I've been meaning to dig out my thread and update it. Maybe this will be the needed inspiration.
What is your custody situation? How do the papers read?
Affairland continues to flourish and creep evermore into my children's lives. The Ho & her son spent the night at Drac's house when he had the kids last weekend. I don't like the fact that an 11 yr old boy that my daughter is not related to spent the night in her bedroom with her, but there's not a darn thing I can do about it.
and that he his telling her to lie to you...
Both would be enough for me to call Friend of the Court and ask for a session with the mediator.
I actually filed a complaint for less than what you have just stated. It got us both to mediation and court ordered co-parenting counseling.
don't like the fact that an 11 yr old boy that my daughter is not related to spent the night in her bedroom with her, but there's not a darn thing I can do about it.
Seems like there must be SOMETHING that you could do about this. I would speak to my lawyer about this. See if you can change the visitation arrangements or something....
There's a bedroom for EACH of the kids for "when they spend the night".
Well this is GOOD...I'm relieved to hear this.
I still have times, like today, where I want to beat Drac over the head with a bat.
I don't blame you ONE BIT!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
The greatest percentage of my time is no longer spent on thinking about him, what he's doing, what he's thinking, what he's feeling, what THEY are planning, etc. That's a long way from where I was a year ago, that is for sure!
WONDERFUL!!
Hi all!
James, I also hope you do not have these moments a year from now! The good thing is that MB and everyone is here for you IF you do.
I can't say enough how great it is to have such wonderful folks around here when we need them! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I will be seeing my attorney a week from Monday. That is the day I have to go to court. Remember Drac's taking me back over the D terms! I will speak to her about the visitation situation. Yet, I do not think it can be changed to the appropriate requirements for the sake of kids. I discussed this with her when we first separated and Drac started bringing her around,,,especially on their vacations overnight while we were still married. My A said then the court won't get involved unless they are having sex in front of the kids. Everything else is considered 'personal' and not something they will address.
The last thing I want right now is any co-parenting counseling with Drac. IMHO, it would not change his behavior, so why put myself thru further frustration?
No one seems to want to comment on why it is necessary for an EX to continue to lie, etc??
I have not and will not engage with him at ALL. So, are these games just little pokes at me to see if he can get me to react? It isn't working and it won't work. I have no desire to speak with him about anything.
It will be bad enough having to see him in court. Although I did buy a FABULOUS Goddess outfit to wear to court. A short black and white tiger stripe jacket with lacey camisole, black fitted pants and high heels.
I will LOOK MAH-VE-LOUS. No matter what happens, I will walk into and out of court a winner! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I just need to work thru the 'stinkin thinkin' I had earlier today.
Thanks everyone.
Hey, BUGS!
No one seems to want to comment on why it is necessary for an EX to continue to lie, etc??
Because they still can't be WRONG. I think, until a wayward is no longer a wayward, they HAVE to continue to make the BS the villian.
He is still ashamed.......or why not let the WORLD know he is going to shack up with the ho?
Fox
No one seems to want to comment on why it is necessary for an EX to continue to lie, etc??
Hi Bugs!!! (Waving from Texas). I think in your case, this is happening because this is who DRAC is. He has lied from the get-go (being a wayward). It has become second nature to him. Being divorced won't change that. He HAS to lie to keep himself from looking like [email]cr@p...[/email] but you know what they say... you can cover it up, dress it up and spin it, but it's still [email]cr@p.[/email]
(edited to add "being a wayward" for clarity)
No one seems to want to comment on why it is necessary for an EX to continue to lie, etc??
Hey Bugs,
That's what waywards do...they lie. Nothing they do will ever make sense because you are thinking rationally and he isn't. It's probably best to ignore him as much as possible and seal up your life as much as possible so that Drac can't penetrate your peaceful zone <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
You will find that the less you know what he is doing, the less amount of why's you'll have..It's great to see you doing well!
He is still addicted, Bugs. Addicts will go to any length to protect the drug, even when they know it is wrong. The addiction is too strong...still.
Fox
WHY....WHy....Why....
God allows us to go thru this because he loves us !!
He wants to purify us. He is testing our faith, untried faith is unreliable faith. He is bringing us closer to him. He is conforming us to the likeness of Christ. He allows the sadness to be progressive to help us to grow. Whe we understand GOD's ways we stop worrying.
Don't mope and whine... GOD causes ALL THINGS to work together for those who love him, for those who are called according to HIS purpose.
God is strenthening you, giving you more patience. Satan wants you to grow impatient. He wants you to give up. He wants to know that he completely took away your marriage. It does not matter that the papers are signed, Satan does not have full control yet and he's trying to win it.
It does get harder.... My dd had me buy a present for the OW, and I did do it for my dd.
Remember the definition of Love.... Love is patient, Love is kind, Love bears all things, Love endures all things, Love never fails. God is LOVE. God is with you helping to be patient, and kind, and HE is with you bearing and enduring this situation.
I have had to say this to myself over and over again this week. My dd asked to call OW mom. She asked me to come become the OW best friend. I explained to her that although I love the OW because Christ gave me the forgiveness and Love to do so, I also can not associate with her because Christ says that Light and Darkness should not mix. I explained that to be exposed to that I could be drawn to Satan.
God knows that Satan wants full control. God also knows that you want Drac back. HE knows your heart, HE hears your prayers. Ask yourself are you willing to be patient for GOD to give you HIS best ? God could bring Drac back in a second, but do you want the lying, the cheating or do you want a God fearing Man ? Remember, your hope is in the things unseen. You can't see God moving the mountian, but he is. God is taking HIS time and being patient in trying to Win Drac over. Drac wasn't pulled to the other side in one night, and God won't return him in one night.
God gives us the "ESCAPE" clause if we do grow to be impatient, but GOD also promises us a GREAT reward if we are willing to be patient and to trust in GOD.
You need to do things to strenghten your faith and trust in God. One way to do that is to praise him all day long. That get's your thinking away from Drac and onto God.
I've been helping many others, and accused for running from my own problem. I could let that bother me, but that's what Satan wants. I am doing the Lords work. I am waiting and trusting in him to work thru my WS. I can not change him, but GOD can and WILL. I don't know if it will be this year, next or 10 years from now, but as long as God still tells me to wait I will wait.
God loves you. It is your decision as to what you can bear. It is also your decision as to if you will follow the foolish ways of man, or listen and follow God's will and HIS way so that you will have the best life possible. God may tell you to move on, or to wait, just keep asking for his guidance in your situation.
Bugs.... I feel for you honey, I know how bad this hurts first hand. I also know how good the JOY of the LORD is, and I pray that you can keep experiencing it.
Thanks everyone for the help through my 'why' moment! I 'knew' the answer, but still had the need to hear it so I could be sure it wasn't only the little voices in my head! Lol!
INeed,
Thanks as always for your post! I am trying very hard to let go and let God. Like most of us, I do suffer from impatience and wanting to know what the "plan" is. Is it that Drac will be changed back to my H and that we may be reunited? Is it a totally different path for me?
I pray for patience, strength and guidance. I know he is answering my prayers and will always be here for me.
Meanwhile, the cluelessness continues in A-land. I knew school progress reports for DSS were being mailed last Thursday.
Email from Drac today that DSS is failing Algebra ,,,,, AGAIN. Drac's email contains the standard lie about him going over homework with DSS every morning and every night. DSS told me that they are NOT doing that any more. I am NOT surprised.
Seems that there is work that has to be finished IN class that hasn't been getting done. So, this tells me that Drac is NOT communicating regularly with the teachers or the counselor at school. To make matters worse, Drac intends to transfer DSS to a new school in a couple of weeks as he has purchased a house closer to his work & to where I am with DD. I think transferring DSS in the middle of the year is a HUGE mistake, but nothing I can do about it.
Drac's email asked if I "wanted to add anything to the conversation" that he intends to have with DSS's counselor.
Why? Why would I add anything? I can't MAKE him be the father he should be. I can't MAKE him see that there is a DIRECT corrolation between what is going on in Drac's life and then what goes on in DSS's life. The ENTIRE UNIVERSE can see it, except for Drac. DSS is very unhappy right now and is feeling very lost. I feel so bad that there is so little that I can do.
And, despite working and praying very hard about letting go,,,,, I am very frustrated with Drac's inability to do better for DSS. I am very frustrated with his total self absorbtion. His only concern is about getting enough time with the Ho.
Sat night he didn't take the call when the kids tried to reach him because he was at a concert. He then left a message expecting me to bring DSS to the town where the Ho lives instead of taking DSS home. I sent him a TM to come pick up DSS here. While I know that the more time they have together, the greater the liklihood that it will fall apart faster, but I won't help them out to have more time together.
I know my Mom is trying to be helpful when she warns me that once Drac is moved to the area, that they will probably get married right away. I know she is trying to help "prepare" me for that very likely scenario,,,,but I can't hardly stomach the idea. I feel ill at the very thought. I have accepted that God's plan may very well not be for Drac & I to be together ever again. I don't know how to get past the fact that I can not accept having the HO as my children's stepmother. It's bad enough that she is in their lives 24/7 whenever Drac has them. Drac will NEVER get better within himself as long as they are together.
So, keep those prayers coming that the A ends, somehow, someway, and soon. If only for the sake of my kids, it has to end.
I realize that more than likely IF the A ever ends with the Ho, there will be NEW woman come along very soon. It will hurt, and I won't like it, but I think I could deal with it better as long as it's not Her. Does that make any sense? I just think I could be much better as a co-parent with her out of the picture. As long as she is around, I can not stand to have anything to do with him because every thing is tied to her,,,,,,,,,,,,,,which is tied to the A,,,,,,,,,,,which is tied to the end of my M,,,,,,,,,,,,which is tied to all of the hurt, the pain. the disrespect, the lies of this 15 months. Yes, I'd still be dealing with Drac and yes, he'd still be of the wayward mindset, but I have learned enough and grown strong enough to deal with that.
Or so I would like to think! Ha! I guess I would like the opportunity to try it.
More likely I would merely be opening myself to the foolish notion that I would have a better chance to have my H back with me.
Well, as Mom says, cross that bridge when or IF I come to it.
((((Bugs))))
No advice. Just nodding along with you and thinking "Yup, your place sounds a lot like this place I find myself in."
Hey SG!
Sorry we are both at the same 'place'. But, ya know we are OK! In a way, I would be worried about myself if I were at a different place with things right now.
I know that seems like a strange thing to say. It's not like I enjoy this difficulty,,, but I know that I am atleast being true and honest with myself. I am not hiding from my feelings even though it isn't easy. THAT alone makes me recognize the strength I have gained. So in an effort to look for any Good that I can, I give myself kudos for that!
So here is where I am today--
As most of you know, that in addition to not having my stepson's bio-mom involved in his life for many years, going thru our divorce, not having much support/time from his father, my DSS also has AD/HD. All of this contributes to his challenges in life, and when you add on top of it all that he is now a TEENAGER,,,,,WOW! He has a lot going on.
Of course, all of this makes for challenges for the entire family as well. Most of you also know that from day one of my involvement Drac, I took special interest in my relationship with DSS and his life. I have been the one involved at school, I initiated getting him tested & then diagnosed with AD/HD and got him on a medication that has made his life so much better. I've continued to always do research, to look for new ideas, new ways to help him in every aspect of life. For all purposes of life, * I * am his mother and always will be.
That being said, with the latest news of his failing Algebra (again), I took it upon myself to do more reading and research about Teenagers with AD/HD and see if I could find ideas & help for both DSS and the family. I did find some really great information for parents and some good ideas. I plan to initiate many of the tactics right away.
Here's my dilemma. Do I bother to share any of this with Drac?
The part of me that is DSS's MOM says YES!! Anything is worth a try if it is going to help DSS in any way!!
The other part of me that is "Bugs" says remember the devastation you have suffered at the hands of Drac. Look at how he is so clueless when it comes to DSS (due to his selfish, ho addicted ways). This part of me says NO do not share this with him. It says why bother? Drac continues to LIE about everything. Drac isn't making DSS a priority. Drac CHOSE to be the 'single dad' and to take me out of DSS's life,,, why should I continue to do HIS parenting work for him?
It also tells me that it is a major breech in Plan B and it opens the door for the horrid, blood sucking Drac to stab me yet again.
BUT
This is for my son. What mother wouldn't willingly submit herself to the potential for that pain if it could help her child?
OY! Helping my son should not be so hard!!
Welcoming all thoughts on this subject,,,
(sorry I missed your update last week....)
major breech of Plan B.....hmmmm.
are you really in Plan B?
You are receiving and sending emails to Drac. You are sending and receiving text messages from Drac.
How does your Plan B work? And why would sharing this information breach it when you are communicating with him all the time anyway?
(sorry...little 2x4)
Bugs....if you're not really going to do Plan B.
Then do Plan FU.
He's asked for your input. Blast him with it.
Be factual. List out all the things you listed above.
No Bio-mom.
Drac self absorbed.
Drac not following through.
DSS struggling with loss of Bugs.
DSS dealing with divorce.
Suggest family counseling....
Does DSS's counselor share anything? I've never had my kids in counseling so I'm not clear on whether they can share with parents...???
Bugs,
Why not just use what you've learned and implement those things into your relationship with DSS. It is likely, that whatever you share with DRAC won't be put into affect anyway. He is still with his A partner and that is his focus. Just do what you can do for DSS and leave Drac to God. He chose to D you, and what comes along with that is the consequences he has to face. You aren't neglecting DSS, you are doing research to help him with his problem. Drac has to take responsibility for himself now..its no longer your job to do that. Let him go Bugs. Remember, you can only control yourself. As long as you do whats in DSS best interest from your side of things, that is all that is expected of you.
Just ask yourself, what difference will it really make to Drac at this point?
Robertswife,
Your post really states what I originally determined myself.
THEN,,, I started to wonder. It is hard to explain. The best way I can explain it is that I wondered if handling it as you describe (and how I want to handle it) is "enough".
When I look back years from now will I be able to say that I did ALL I could for DSS. Will I be satisfied with my efforts or will I realize that there was MORE I should have done.
Thanks for your input. It does help to know that others see it as I initially did.
sorry if I made you mad.
Here is a great website for kids with ADHD etc.
www.conductdisorders.com
Lexxy,
Sweetie, I am NOT mad! I just totally missed your post yesterday! I was on the Blackberry, so when I clicked on my thread, it took me to the most recent post which was from Robertswife and I TOTALLY missed your first post.
I do have email/tm from him regarding the kids only. So, 2x4 accepted.
I am considering your Plan FU idea. No matter how I'd go about it, it would be considered very "Old Bugs" by Drac and viewed as old Bugs to pointing out to him how "wrong" he is. It would be like trying to educate him about the A, which isn't very likely to be accepted or to make a difference.
Thanks for the link! I'm going to check it out.
Gotta get ready for the day. I have court this am about a traffic incident last year. Yuck.
It's off to court Monday morning.
I've been amazed that I haven't been worried or constantly thinking about seeing Drac in court on Monday. In fact, it's really only on my mind now because of a reminder from my A yesterday about it coming up on Monday.
I know that the 'facts of the case' are in my favor, and God is on my side and handling it all. There is nothing for me TO worry about. Yes, it will be the first true 'face to face' with Drac in 7 months, but even that doesn't have me rattled as it used to.
I have a FABULOUS suit I bought for a corporate work meeting, so I'll be in Full Goddess Form,,,, looking good and feeling confident.
Plus, Drac is still Drac. He's in full A mode and will be for who knows how long,,,,,,,,,,,perhaps forever.
I realized a few weeks ago that I HAVE to stop giving him even a tiny bit of power in my life. And, that includes TALKING about him. I realized that so often people would ask how I was doing or what was going on in MY life - I would respond with things about me AND I'd almost always make some mention of what Drac is up to. No more.
Yes, his actions impact the kids, but I need to let those things lie where they belong, which is in His Lap. I no longer make mention of him at all around the kids. If they bring something up about him, I keep any comment to a minimum (if I comment at all) and then change the subject.
Yes, I do have to deal with 'stuff' because of him. Such as court, and the fact that he isn't paying his 1/2 of extra cirricular activies for DD. I sent him copies of receipts for her dance, gymnastics and softball sign up and he has yet to pay his part. I figured I'd just wait and talk to my attorney about it on Monday. Let her handle it.
So, yes I am still stuggling on the letting go,,,,but it is getting better. Slowly. With a lot of prayer! Every time something pops in my head about him or what he's doing I am hearing that little voice reminding me to "Let go. Let God".
Of course the little devil on my shoulder is still trying to whisper in the other ear with reminders of the pain, reminders of the hate I feel for the Ho, pointing out HER continued involvement with my kids, trying to plant worries/doubts/pain, and trying to tell me that I could "do" something to try to impact the situation.
I am doing so much better at just turning my head and blowing that little devil off my shoulder! He's holding on hard, but he actually goes away for very long periods at a time.
Then I am feeling the peace of being where I need to be. It is a beautiful thing.
Am going out with friends tonight, shopping tomorrow, quilting with Mom & Grandma tomorrow night (yes, what a wild single Sat. night that will be), and church on Sunday.
Keep those cards & prayers coming for me on Monday!! I know that whatever the outcome, I'm fine with it,,,,,,,,,,,,but it sure would be nice to WIN!!
Bugsy:
Wow. Just WOW.
(((BUGSY)))
LG
Bugs,
I haven't posted to you in a really long time, but I did want to share something with you.
My father left my mother for his OW a month before their 25th wedding anniversary, he was 43 years old. in 2005 my father passed away suddenly at the age of 63. He was married to W #3 and his current OW secretly showed up at the funeral. (We found out about her when she gave my grandmother a note about her relationship with my father).
He never got out of the WS mindframe and the best thing my mother did was move on with her life. She ended up marrying a really great guy and they have been married almost 20 years.
I guess my point is, the best thing you can do for yourself and your children is live your life to the fullest. It's Drac's loss and the sad part is he may never even realize it. I know my father never did.
I hope my post doesn't sound harsh it isn't meant to be. He doesn't deserve you and/or all the energy you are wasting on him.
LC
Hey Bugs, thanks for stopping by. I continue to draw strength from you so that I can make it through this thing.
Oh, and my atty called WH's atty and told her that there is no need to get the police involved in this D.
I wonder if anyone can recover after such an ugly mess. Beginning to wonder if I even want to.....
I'm glad to see that you are doing so well. Keep updating us as you are a great role model!!
I realized a few weeks ago that I HAVE to stop giving him even a tiny bit of power in my life.
What a great realization and so true. But easier said than done.
So, yes I am still stuggling on the letting go,,,,but it is getting better. Slowly. With a lot of prayer! Every time something pops in my head about him or what he's doing I am hearing that little voice reminding me to "Let go. Let God".
Of course the little devil on my shoulder is still trying to whisper in the other ear with reminders of the pain, reminders of the hate I feel for the Ho, pointing out HER continued involvement with my kids, trying to plant worries/doubts/pain, and trying to tell me that I could "do" something to try to impact the situation.
I am doing so much better at just turning my head and blowing that little devil off my shoulder! He's holding on hard, but he actually goes away for very long periods at a time.
This is AWESOME. I need to learn how to do this. Thank you for this WISDOM.
When you walk in that court on Monday, not only will you be the most confident and awesome GODDESS, but you will have so MANY of us with you in your pocket, loving you and praying for you. You're right. With G-d on your side, you are in the best position possible.
YOU ARE AMAZING AND A TRUE GODDESS TO BE ADMIRED.
Thanks so much you guys!!
It's so great to come here and get such loving support.
Morning all!
Well, today is the day. I see Drac in court at 9 a.m. I’ve really not thought too much about it this weekend. I went out Friday night with friends and had a great time. Saturday I worked around the house, went shopping with Mom, and took Bo for a haircut. Church and quilting on Sunday. A quiet, but good weekend.
The kids spent the weekend at the Ho’s house. Ugh. DD came home in the same clothes that she left in,,,and they were dirty. Seems she had to attend a birthday party for one of the Ho’s friend’s kids and the Ho bought her clothes to wear. Drac made her change back to her own clothes before coming home. The truth is, that was a good move on his part because I don’t want her coming home in anything she bought.
Despite my best efforts to stay out of their lives & drama, apparently I’m still a part of it whether I like it or not. First the clothes thing, and today is court. No matter how it comes out today, they’ll see this as being a ‘win’ or ‘loss’ against me. More drama to feed their A.
Well, for me, no matter what happens today, I’m walking out of that courtroom just Fine! My life does not hinge on the outcome of the judge’s decision and frankly, it has very little impact on my life at all. It’s in God’s hands and I’m fine with whatever happens.
I know when I walk out of there (and even when I walk in), I have what I need. I have my God, kids, my family, and a good life ahead. He walks in and out of there with a future built on lies, deceipt, the pain of his kids & family on which he is trying to build a life with the Ho. No matter what happens, that foundation will never stand. Someday he will feel the pain of his choices.
I just keep praying and trusting. I know the Lord will turn whatever happens to something for my good if I just trust in him to do so. I’m leaning NOT on my own understanding, but on Him. He has a plan. I Do hope oh so much that it includes taking the Ho out of our lives forever,,,,,,,,,,,, and I really am hoping it is soon!!!
I am going to make my Goddess preparations! I’ll check back with you all later. Keep those prayers coming!!
I'm leaning NOT on my own understanding, but on Him. He has a plan.
his is awesome insight.
My prayers and thoughts are with you. Good luck.
I want to hear everything...
I just keep praying and trusting. I know the Lord will turn whatever happens to something for my good if I just trust in him to do so. I’m leaning NOT on my own understanding, but on Him. He has a plan.
WONDERFUL, BUGSY!!
Continuing to keep you in my prayers...
I'm thinking about you Bugs... Check in with us and let us know how you are doing.
I hope court went well today, Bugs. If you can, take the win/loss part out of it, because thinking about winning and losing will only mess with your head. They can't win, and everyone has already lost. You already know this, of course.
Court is probably a big trigger, so remember to take care of yourself tonight (and tomorrow, et al).
(((Bugs)))
Thanks for checking on me everyone!
Sorry for the 'update' delay,,,, work was very busy with some emergencies when I got back.
Ok, to paint the scene - -
Typical cold blustery day in a typical large city Downtown area,,,,,,,,and Bugs forgets her coat.
Buurrrrr!
Yet Bugs is totally unfazed by this, as her totally Goddess Suit looks fabulous and should not be hidden under a coat anyway. So she finds a parking spot and walks the 2 blustery blocks to the court house.
Upon entering and walking to security, the security guard inquires "Are you an Attorney?" so, obviously the suit is working and Bugs is looking confident!! whoo hoo! Cell phone had to be left at the security desk,,,,,,,I forgot it has a camera & no cameras are allowed in court. No problem. I head on up to my floor and am pretty early so am just hanging out in the hallway waiting.
My attorney comes in about 2 minutes before 10 am. We go right into the courtroom where the judge is still finishing up the previous case. Drac is not there. Drac's attorney is not there. Judge finishes up and calls my case. My attorney lets him know we are there and they are not. The judge does a few other items relating to other cases. My attorney calls Drac's attorney's office. They say he's at court. My attorney tells me that I look GREAT,,,,and she feels bad that here she is with her client looking better than the attorney! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Finally his attorney comes in 15 minutes late. Drac is not in attendance. I am sitting in the gallery seats. Calm, cool and collected. Not even a hint of a drop of sweat was on my entire person. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So, the hearing begins. Lots of back and forth between the judge & the attorneys. Then the typical back and forth between just the attorneys. By now, I am all alone in the gallery. Just me, the court clerk and the policeman sitting listen to them argue. For 45 minutes.
Then, the judge lets Drac's attorney that his motion is denied. Further discussion ensues,,,,,Drac's attorney informs the judge of his intent to appeal the ruling, so they then have to go "On the Record" and re-state what was said already. That took another 15 minutes.
So, they have 10 days in which to decide if they are going to file an appeal. This is on Drac now, as it is going to cost him to file, cost him to request transcripts, etc. He'll need to decide if it is worth it. If they don't file in 10 days, the $$ is mine. If they do file, then it's just a matter of time more time waiting for my $$. No real skin off my back.
My attorney and I walked out together. We chatted for a bit. We were talking about the paperwork,,,and that normally SHE always drafts the documents that involve her clients so that she can be sure that they are correct and she was trying to remember WHY she didn't in this case. Then she did remember,,,,,,Drac's attorney still had $$ in his retainer that he hadn't used and he asked her if he could draw up the papers in order to use up the $$ left in the retainer that Drac had already paid him. Nice guy, don't ya think?
Today's Ruling goes to Bugs. Who knows what tomorrow will bring? Whatever it brings, I know I'll be ok.
I don't feel the need to celebrate. I don't feel let down about any of it either, and I am neutral on him not being there. He's lost in the wastelands of the continued affair, trying desperately to convince himself and everyone else how he's Better now, happier now, his future is so bright & wonderful, and he's made ALL the right decisions. Well, good for him. He'll end up with exactly what he deserves.
And, so shall I.
Of course, I realize that today's event's make me even more the Evil Ex-Wife. Which I just Love! You all know the Horrible things I've done since he chose to commit adultery, right?! I mean being a loving wife who tried desperately to save her marriage and her family,,,,,,How DARE I tell him that we could work things out? He should be OUTRAGED that I continued to profess and show him my love!! That I would forgive him and work to make a BETTER marriage than we had before??? That is just HORRENDOUS!! How could
any man possibly put up with such a woman??!!!
And to top it all off, here I am expecting him to abide by the terms of a divorce that only HE wanted, which HE drew up, and which HE signed? Well that is simply outragous!! How could any judge allow me to do this to him? It's an abomination!
How's that for some great FogSpeak?? he he!
The suit I am wearing is black & white. DD told me this morning that she liked my suit, but that I looked like Cruella DeVille (101 Dalmations). I said GREAT!!! Mommy has an important meeting today, and feeling like Cruella might be a Good thing! LOL!
I figure if I expect the worst from him, I won't ever be disappointed when it's better than expected.
I really do feel good. SD, as u said, I did not really go into this thinking so much in terms of winning/losing. It was going to be what is was going to be.
A tiny step towards me acceptance for me, I guess.
I AM IN AWE....
SIMPLY AMAZING AND I AM SO HAPPY FOR YOU.
YOU DESERVED THIS TODAY.... G-D BLESSED YOU GIRL....
MAZEL TOV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUUUUUGGGGSSSYYYYYYY!!!!
My role model!!! You are awesome girlfriend.
Queenie, take note. We'll get there too someday.
Bugsy:
You are the goddess!
Did you have on Red Shoes?>
Ms. Deville LG
Ah, thanks everyone!
I had such peace yesterday, it was truly amazing. Even without the Red Cruella shoes (I stuck with black Goddess heels), I felt in control of myself, my life, and I didn't feel it necessary to try to 'control' the situation. Hmm, an interesting place to be and I liked it.
It must be a very good thing, because last night boy was I ever attacked in my dream! Yikes, I had one of the most horrible of my life. DSS intentionally hurt himself and ended up in the hospital. I had to walk in with Drac & the Ho in attendance. I was SO scared, hurt & ANGRY. I did a total Plan FU to Drac. It was unbelievable. I woke up for about an hour before I was able to go to sleep again.
I realize it was an attack on the peace that I had found yesterday. Once I realized that and put it away in it's place, I was able to sleep peacefully again.
So, yes - I am making great progress, but it is still a battle. Glad it's one I don't have to fight alone! I was just reading Proverbs this morning. Chp 14:14 The faithless will be fully repaid for their ways, and the good man rewarded for his.
So I continue to stand and delight in the promises of God who is always faithful. It is His to handle.
For me, I have a full day ahead. Lots to do with work & tonight gymnastics for DD/workout for Mom.
I'll try to ck in with everyone's threads later. Have a great day all!
BUGS!!!!
You are AWESOME to the extreme. I'm so proud of you, you're even more my hero now than ever!
Such a fine example to the rest of us how to get through this on the D train.
I LOVED this, and it applies so well given that her family still occasionally drops the not so subtle suggestion that she needs to get her [censored] home before it's too late.. her response has been that there's too much 'pain in my memory of him, and not all of it coming from while we were together'.. and that she's already 'moved on' with her life.. her loss right? but I LOVED this.. and it'll likely get used at some point if you don't mind my plagerism:
Of course, I realize that today's event's make me even more the Evil Ex-Wife. Which I just Love! You all know the Horrible things I've done since he chose to commit adultery, right?! I mean being a loving wife who tried desperately to save her marriage and her family,,,,,,How DARE I tell him that we could work things out? He should be OUTRAGED that I continued to profess and show him my love!! That I would forgive him and work to make a BETTER marriage than we had before??? That is just HORRENDOUS!! How could
any man possibly put up with such a woman??!!!
GODDESS!!
much love and respect Bugsy!
Thanks, all!
I don't know if I am 1/2 of what you think I am, but thanks for the support! I'm doing my best
James, feel free to use any of my material. I have been known as the Queen of the sarcastic comment,,it feels good to have that back in regards to Darc.
I saw an email from Drac in my Inbox,,, I forwarded to my sister to interpret. I haven't read it, but I do know it is about my having called DSS's school counselor last week.
I am sure I am in trouble or have done something HORRIBLY wrong,,,like caring about DSS and instead of going thru Drac, I went straight to the source of the information & support! Shame on me.
It was last WED that I called the school. I'd bet 100 dollars HE did not call at all or at the very least he did not call until today. So he is more concerned about looking bad than helping DSS,,,,and anger with me about the 'how' I did it is the best he can come up with.
Plus, it's not like he can contact me about losing at court yesterday without really looking BAD.
Just trying to break my Peace. Too bad for him that Greater is He who is with Me than anything he can hurl at me!
I will let you all know if the email ends up having anything worth bringing up! Sis is out for the evening, so likely won't know til tomorrow.
I'm with LG on this Bugsy! WOWZERS! I know it's not easy, but you sure do make it LOOK that way.
You really are letting go, and that can only mean good things for you.
Hi Bugs,
How are you doing? Checkin in on you girl.
Happy Friday,
Hey Queenie!
Sorry I have just been so swamped,,,,,and my computer was moving soooo slow these last 2 days I haven't posted! Thanks for checking on me!
Almost to my own suprise, I'm doing very well!
Sis read Drac's email & called me. She told me that "I've had a really bad day and it's all your fault, Bugs!"
I was a bit taken aback,,,,and said "Well, I am sorry, Sis. What did I do?"
She replied, "After reading Drac's email, I figured out that EVERYTHING in the world is your fault, so it must be your fault that even *i* had a bad day!" LOL!!
I was right, Drac was upset about my contacting DSS's school about his grades and also talking to the school counselor about DSS's grades. He'd told me for the previous 2 weeks that HE was contacting them about those things, so I figured he had already done so.
Guess what? He hadn't. So, he was 'really' upset that he was busted for NOT doing what he said he would do for DSS (again). Yet, it's so much better to turn it all around to be about ME doing something wrong. He'd asked me if I had any input for the counselor and I'd told him no. Then, by calling the school myself, it was such a HORRIBLE thing.
He believes I called "to inform them" of the transfer and it's "not my place". I didn't bother to argue back that I didn't call to 'inform' the school of anything,,,, that was HIS job that he'd told me he'd already done. Now granted, I will accept that I probably should have told him I was contacting the school myself directly (looking at the situation in reverse I can see that), but I don't think taking it to such extreme is valid.
Oh, and I am "seriously jeopardizing my relationship with DSS"! That is because when Drac was out of town & DSS had a phone conversation with me, Drac's friends reported to him that DSS "was very upset,,,he didn't want to eat and was acting all shut down" after the call.
So, a third party report of hearing one side of the conversation is now a valid evaluation of my relationship with DSS? Hmmm. Oh, and I guess I should never have a conversation with DSS that he might find unpleasant,,,You know like one about how he is FAILING a class. I suppose that is the was Drac is working with DSS these days? Never having an 'unpleasant' conversation that might upset him? W
While I don't think that is the case,,,let's suppose it is. Either way, just How Well is that working??? DSS is failing a class again,,,,,,,,,,,so I'd say it's not working so great. But, that's just the opinion of someone who is his MOM.
Bottom line is this -
Drac was mad about losing in court
Drac was mad about being BUSTED when I found out he hadn't contacted the school yet
Drac wants me to be 'mom' only when/how HE deems it appropriate
Drac doesn't WANT me to continue to be Mom because he now has a Replacement for me and it's probably a little tougher keeping the Ho happy about the current arrangement
Drac is building his Affair Family Nest and they need a bit a of drama against the Horrible Ex Wife to deflect what they are up to
He is moving the Ho and her son in with them into the A-House. I suspected it, but it was confirmed last night. Drac asked DD the other night what she would think if the ho and her son moved in with them. She said "that would be great!" OUCH!
I didn't say anything, but DD is a smart one. She says to me "Mommy, she's really a nice person." and later said "I'm not betraying you mommy". Now I asked her what she meant by that and why she would say/think that. What 7 year old uses the word "betrayed"? She didn't really have an answer and I didn't pressure her. She was already a bit anxious as she felt she had given up a "secret" by telling me in the first place (yet she says he didn't tell her NOT to tell). I won't put her in the middle with a bunch of questions on that.
And Bugs continues to be a-ok. Yes, I DO still struggle at times. Yes, I still find my mind and emotions to be a battlefield. Yes, there's not a day that I don't wake up thinking about him. Yes, there's not a day that I don't miss the man I fell in love with. Yes, there's not a day that I don't think about what it might be like to see that man again,,,,and for him to be asking for my forgiveness someday. But, those things do not CONSUME my thought or my days as they once did.
The kids and I went out for a nice dinner last night and had a great time. I was especially proud of this as I had just found out the truth about the A-House and I was able to really let it go and have fun with the kids.
Here's the thing,,,, It's going to be what it's going to be. They are going to do what they are going to do. It's highly likely that by moving in together now, it will fall apart even faster than if they lived separately.
Think about it. They just got "back together" in December. That was like their 3rd or 4th "break up" in less than a year. With a track record like that - WOW, I SURE would think moving in together is a GREAT idea!
Yes, I HATE it for my kids. Not that they are in physical danger, but the lessons they are learing by seeing this is not good. However there's nothing I can do to stop it
All I can do is continue to keep a stable, loving home HERE for them. I can do good things for them and for me. Our lives are ours to make happy. Teaching them in the ways I think are good, Godly, healthy, happy, and moral - those are the things I can do.
I keep standing God's promises. The promise that they will get what they deserve is one in particular that is helpful to me a times,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but I try not to think about that one too much! Rather I try to stay focused on the positive promises for ME and I see how God is moving in a positive way in my life everyday. The more I lean on and trust in Him, the more it shows!
The weather here is supposed to be nice this weekend, so I'm hoping we can go play outside today!
I'm glad you are doing ok and moving along.
It's amazing the drama that comes from the other side and I guess the growth for us all BS's is to not get caught up in it and leave it at their door.
Way easier said than done.
And Bugs continues to be a-ok. Yes, I DO still struggle at times. Yes, I still find my mind and emotions to be a battlefield. Yes, there's not a day that I don't wake up thinking about him. Yes, there's not a day that I don't miss the man I fell in love with. Yes, there's not a day that I don't think about what it might be like to see that man again,,,,and for him to be asking for my forgiveness someday. But, those things do not CONSUME my thought or my days as they once did.
amen to this. Pat yourself on the back for the long road it has been to get to this point.
I have to ask, so what kind of a relationship do you have with him. Or you in Plan B or just making the best of a horrible situation and that's why you are caught up in the stuff.
I'm asking because my Plan B is about to happen and in my mind, it could be that I will never talk to him for the rest of my life and that frightens me. To completely let go of the man who is sick and I love with all my heart, knowing that it's possible its for the rest of my life.
Thank G-d I have one day at a time down pretty good. Not great, but pretty good.
Queenie,
I'm not really Plan B. I don't see or talk on the phone with Drac. I haven't seen him in about 8 months. I have talked to him once on the phone about DSS in that 8 months. But, we do have email contact about the kids. I 'try' to keep it limited and as brief as possible. I'm doing better with often not responding at all.
He is determined on the path of building his Affair family. Whatever *I* do in terms of how to deal with him is about what works for me. It's no longer about the hope of recovery or of him finally seeing what he has done. That's in God's hands.
Do I still pray for it,,,,heck yes! Yet, as I said, it's no longer the major controlling factor in my life.
Really, just this week after court, when for the first time I could ridicule with REAL humor the situation, that I TRULY felt like I've let go in a very real way.
I not only 'see' it intellectually as being ridiculous, but I feel more of an Outsider's non-connected feeling about it. I can be sarcastic about it without feeling my gut wrench at the same time. It's really hard to describe.
So, I guess I'm just making the best I can of the horrible circumstance,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I think you have to get to the point of knowing you HAVE to let him go completely in order for God to possibly return him to you. That's what I've tried to do. Long road, hard road, but it CAN be done.
Don't look at me or my story as a good guide on how to Plan B. There are others here that did a much better job of it!
Bugsy:
Watch out for the major 2x4!
Your statement:
Don't look at me or my story as a good guide on how to Plan B. There are others here that did a much better job of it!
COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.
YOU ARRIVED HERE, BROKEN AND WONDERING WHAT'S UP, AND IF YOU COULD BE LIKE LILSIS.
WHERE ARE YOU NOW?
YOU WORKED THE PLAN A.
THEN AFTER DRAC CONTINUED HIS WAYWARD WAYS, YOU WENT TO PLAN B.
YOU AND YOUR GODDESS SELF HAVE COME OUT OF THIS WITH:
-SELF-RESPECT
-A NEW HOME
-A WELL ADJUSTED DD WHO YOU HAVE LEARNED HOW TO MANAGE AROUND DRAC'S BAD PARENTING AND LIFE SKILLS TRAINING
-A LIFE, BUILT ON REAL THINGS, NOT ON "I'LL SHOW THEM!"
-AND SOOO MANY OTHER THINGS....
Please recognize this.
Recovery takes many forms. Saving the marriage is one.
Saving YOURSELF is another.
You have been transformed by this Plan D experience. Drac wanted it and Drac got it. You TRIED. And TRIED to stop the course HE started.
Let Global Warming BE your FAULT according to Drac.
It Just Doesn't Matter.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER.
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER!
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER!!!
It JUST DOESN'T MATTER!!!!
Your LIFE is good.
Your Recovery has been fantastic.
You have EVERY reason to be proud of your efforts from Plan A to Plan B to Plan D.
Drac will KNOW.....Everyday, that he made the WRONG choice.
I KNEW, EVERYDAY, that I was making a wrong choice. DDay pulled my head out, but I KNEW I had the better one already.
(((BUGSY))) & (((BUGS)))
LG
She said "that would be great!" OUCH!
I'm sorry for this, Bugs. You have a really good attitude about it, but I know that it hurts.
((((((((((Bugs)))))))))))
Bugsy:
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with LG!!
You are a WONDERFUL ROLE MODEL for Queenie!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I gotta agree with the rest, you are going to come out of this just fine Bugs. Even if Drac never pulls his act together you have a whole life ahead of you, you have become a better person and you have learned so much here.
If you can detach from the outcome, understanding that even if the A ends and his choice is to continue on down a destructive path, you will still be okay. No matter what. That is when you will know you have truly let go. I think you are well on your way, and good things are in store for you.
(((Bugs)))
Now I am the one saying, WOW! Thanks everyone.
LG, I think I'm going to print out your post,,,,that really means a lot to me. Plus, I'm sitting here running that movie scene through my head - the chant of "It Just Doesn't Matter!"
Someday I'll really be totally there. For now, I'm happy with most days feeling that it just doesn't matter. ALL days, I am proud of my accomplishments and I am proud of my kids. A parent can't ask for much more.
Drac's still trying to occassionally poke at me over things with DD. I just give him the minimal, business only, totally brief communications,,,,,,,,,,and only if really necessary. A lot of times he gets nothing from me. The Affair Family will need to find their drama fix elsewhere. Although I am sure that even by not responding, discussion is held about the Evil Ex.
Well, I'm just glad to keep far enough away for when that Karma Bus rolls into their driveway.
Good news for me,,,, I received confirmation of my 2007 bonus payout that is coming this Friday. I am well pleased! It is a very nice boost.
I should also know by Friday if Drac is going to appeal the court decision on the property payout. When that comes through for me, I'll be moving this house into MY name/ownership. Whoo hoo!!
I just feel very blessed to have such great friends/support here. It's been a very long road, but I do have much more peace now than I have had in the last 15 months. The road hasn't ended,, and really never will. Continued self improvement is now a way of life. As God continues to work his plans, I need to be ready for whatever he sends my way!
Also, I still have some milestones to pass in my recovery from the A and the D. I'm not certain what/where/how all of that will come together, but that's ok. For now, I really, really, really, am hoping the bus pulls in for them soon. Not only do I want it to pull in,,,I want it to run them over, back up, and run over them again. As long as I still have visuals like that in my head, I realize my recovery isn't really complete! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
DD told me tonight her list of people that she loves. The HO is now on the list. OUCH!! I wanted to pull the stake out of my heart and pound it right into Drac's!
Instead, I took a deep breath and felt pride in the first name on her list - God. We are both so much better now that we have Him at the top of both of our lists!
Time for bed. Thanks so much again everyone!!!
((((((BUGS))))))
There goes my hero!
Hi Bugs!
It's my day to pass through.
I just feel very blessed to have such great friends/support here.
Ditto Bugs Bomb! You sound great!
DD told me tonight her list of people that she loves. The HO is now on the list. OUCH!! I wanted to pull the stake out of my heart and pound it right into Drac's!
Bugs, that opinion may change when she gets older and realizes the role that HO really played in everything that happened. As an adult, she'll probably appreciate you more for the healthy way you handled it all.
For now, I really, really, really, am hoping the bus pulls in for them soon. Not only do I want it to pull in,,,I want it to run them over, back up, and run over them again.
Me, too, Bugs. I think that's how we know we're not Done.
Keep taking those deep breaths when BabyBugs talks about the HO. Teaching them right from wrong is one thing, but we don't want to teach them to hate.
You sound great!
Hi all!
Thanks for the input. SD, it is a fine line to walk, as I do not want to teach her to hate. In fact, I do not allow the use of the word hate at home. I think we do not give the use of that word proper context, especially when it is used all of the time in a casual way. JMHO.
So, update from me. A silly, STUPID move on my part this weekend.
Here's the question I have and the story of my stupid move,,,,
Question - - What is up with the W Ex-H harboring such Anger towards the B ExW?
I'd finally had enough with Drac not keeping with the schedule - - everything from not picking up DSS as he scheduled, to bringing home DD late, to not having the kids call me when they are with him. It has gotten continually worse for some time now. So,,,,,,,,,,,,, I broke Plan B.
Friday night, I did not get a call from the kids. I called an hour after they should have called,,,,after 2 rings, my call was sent to vm. An HOUR after that, I finally get a call from them.
So, after talking to DD, I asked to speak with Drac & asked what the problem is, as this has been happening frequently. He immediately got very defensive, and said "There is no problem".
Bugs, "Ok, then why are the kids not calling as we setup?"
Drac starts YELLING, "She was at a PARTY!"
Bugs, "And?"
Drac, still yelling, "She was at a PARTY!!! WE are VERY busy! WE have a LOT going on in OUR lives!! We are trying to pack, trying to get moved!!!! I wish I were as PERFECT as YOU!!! "
I waited for him to stop yelling and calmly said, "Baby, I've never said I am perfect. In fact, I know I'm far from it. We ALL have a lot going on in our lives, we ALL do. But, I ALWAYS have put your relationship and communication with the kids FIRST. I make sure that your getting to talk to them comes first. I expect and deserve the same respect in return. Goodbye.", and I hung up the phone.
The TRUTH of what went down that night was that DD was at an ADULT jewelry party with the Ho, not a kid party as he would like for me to believe from his statement. Drac wasn't even there at the party with DD. He'd left her there with the ho. That's why my call was sent to VM and that's why it took so long for her to call me back. The HO didn't make sure that DD called.
While it hurts, while I really, really HATE that they are making the Affair Family Home together, I accept that it is happening and there is nothing I can do to stop it. It is what it is.
What I don't understand is the reason for the Attack on me? What's up with that??
So if the happy little affair family is doing their happy little life. Why the attack on me?
I am not prostrate on the floor, rolling around asking WHY WHY WHY? I'm not in tears, I'm not depressed. Yes, I broke Plan B and it does hurt to have him attack me, but I really had had enough and wanted to make it clear that he needs to comply with our agreement. He expects it from me and gets it. It has to go both ways. If he is going to leave DD in her care, then she needs to be in compliance with the agreement as well.
I suppose it is just too inconvenient to have 2 Mommies for his kids these days. With me being the EVIL EX wife, it's always going to be ME causing a problem, instead of it being about him/her/them not holding up their part of the agreement that HE wanted us to have.
One more thing to accept.
Want to know the one really bad thing from this? Having DD tell me last night how the HO "tried to make Daddy stop yelling at you, Mommy".
YIKES!!!
Back to the dark side of Pluto and email only about the kids. Mr. Let's Communicate for the Sake of the Kids isn't worth the wasted breath.
Oh,,,,,,,,, by the way, he has filed with the Court of Appeals about the property $$, asking them to overturn the previous judgement.
Hmmmm, it could get very interesting if they succeed in setting aside the ENTIRE divorce decree. We'd still be married and I would have 1/2 interest in the house they are closing on this Friday! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />:)
The Lord does work in mysterious ways at times,,,,,,,,,
((((Bugs))))
I'm trying to figure out what to say without just telling you how much I want to hit Drac with a shovel and how much I hate that this is happening to you. Let me put my BR hat on.
So my guess is that most of the outburst is typical WS FogSpewing. You caught him doing something against the agreement and called him on it, and then he got defensive. Or maybe he knows he's being a lousy father to BabyBugs and feels bad about it and lashed out at you.
It could be any number of things, but we know what WS's do when they need to vent frustration--we know at whom the venom will be directed. Especially if they serve themselves up for it by asking to speak to them on the phone. It's, um, why we have this Plan B thingy.
But you know all that. The interesting part was this line:
I wish I were as PERFECT as YOU!!!
What's that all about? That sounds like something real--like he's really telling you something there.
But I'm not sure what. BR would know.
Have you given any of the other suggestions any thoughts?
Take back your power.
LG suggested meeting with him.
I suggested telling him off.
I know some more ideas were floated -- have you considered any of them?
Personally, I could not sit back and let little Bugs get attached to HO. I just wouldn't. I admire your patience and tolerance; but at the same time if I were in your shoes I would not do the same.
Bugs:
The time to meet with Drac is past. The window was open there for a little while.
It closed. And that's probably a good thing.
Were you calling to the cell phone for DD and DSS that you are paying for and provided?
And sometimes, that call will not go thru. Even if they are NOT with Drac. Just wait till DSS goes on his first date...
I know that probably MANY times, when the kids call Drac at the designated times, he probably doen't answer either. Beyond your control.
Really.
Why the attack? Because you exposed yourself to him. No target, no attacks. Remember that.
His Life. Your Life.
It just doesn't Matter.
LG
Hi Bugs,
I am reading your thread and watching you work through very similar issues of not controlling the "other" side. I admire your strength and wonder how you learned to do this.
I look at you and your story and am so amazed at your strength to push forward and create a new life. We really are not that far apart and yet you are so far more ahead.
I am very honored to be getting to know you and see your strength come through even when you have rough times. You are such inspiration.
Hey Bugs,
What's happening in your world?
Hi Queenie,,,,and Everyone!
Loooong time no post! Glad to see the new forum back in action.
Wow, let's see. What's happening in my world?
We had a great Easter weekend. We hosted a baby shower for my niece last Saturday and had a ball! Literally, we had a Ball - - we did a basketball (Baby Madness) theme instead of the 'standard' baby theme. The hostess all wore "coaches' t-shirts that said Baby Madness, we handed out 'playbooks' instead of games, and had b-ball food (popcorn, hotdogs out of a hotdog machine, chips, etc). Lots of fun, lots of gifts.
Easter was great. We hold a FAMILY Easter egg hunt. Even the adults participate looking for specific gifts with their name on them. We have so much fun!
On the Drac front, we've done nothing but fight. Long story short, he doesn't read the parenting plan. He just makes his plans and expects everyone to agree. If you don't, then you are a POS. He expected me to give up my Easter holiday because he & the Ho just moved into their house and he wanted DD to be there for the weekend. It just got worse from there, even to the point of him calling his lawyer. It's all really stupid.
I talked to my attorney,,,,we ended the conversation with the standard joke about how even global warming is MY fault! ha!
It's just gotten to the point where I don't care what he thinks. I stand up for what I know to be right. So, in return, he didn't let DSS come over for Easter. Needless to say that HURT really bad. Drac didn't even tell me himself,,,,,,,,,he had DSS tell me.
It sounds as if the pressure is already getting to Drac over in the A-house. I made DD call Drac one night and mentioned that I didn't need Drac getting mad at me if she didn't call. DSS says, "He's not mad at you Bugs. He's just really unhappy. He yells all of the time. He gets mad at me a lot, too".
I guess getting everything he said he's always wanted is really turning out wonderful for him. He got rid of the last cat (that I bought for him) as the HO brought her inside dog & cat to the Ahouse. DD said she couldn't talk to Daddy about missing their cat because "he'd just yell at me and send me to bed".
I really hate it all for the kids,,,,,,,,,but I can not control it. He is making his own damage path with his relationship with the kids and he will be the one to have to repair it. The HO is totally in the picture with DD talking more about her and I try very hard to control what I say in that regard with DD. That's my biggest challenge right now.
I am off this week with DD for Easter break. We are headed to the zoo today! It's the last nice weather day for the week. Lots of other stuff planned for indoors the remainder of the week.
I am still trying to let go and let God. It's going well. He is always faithful,,I just have to stay out of the way! I did TM Drac last night about this coming weekend and I did make the mistake of coming off in the "I am right" mode,,,,but I really don't care. I am tired of his crap and he needs to start going by the parenting plan he agreed to in the D. I figure with everything being my fault, it doesn't matter anyway. Then, I realized that is not who I really am anymore and I have pledged to get back on track with handling him in my new improved ways.
Less is more.
Hope everyone is well. I hope to get caught up on everyone's threads later tonight.
(((((Bugs)))))
Oh how I can relate to the struggles with biting the tongue when the little ones talk about OP... I know it's like a knife twisting in the gut, but just remember.. they are sharing with you parts of their lives.. it could be worse.. they could not want to talk about their lives at all.. at this rate she wants to include you in everything.. she doesn't understand that it hurts you.. there's no perspective on that for a kid.
Keep your head up hon, you're still an inspiration to us all. Keep those eyes on God as you said and I'm sure all will come out for the best.
Oh.. and kudos for not taking any more of Drac's crap.. I'm finally about there with WW myself.
Bugs:
You have an attorney to help with the parenting plan.
Drac wants as much control, and the ability to poke you that he can get.
The parenting plan does that for him.
So just let the attorney handle it. Document the issues and turn it over to the attorney.
And leave it there.
Your DD telling you about her life? The most precious thing that can ever happen. And the parts about the HO are going to hurt. One day your daughter will appreciate ALL that you did.
(((Bugsy)))
LG
Hi guys!!
Yes, I realize how GREAT it is that DD shares her life with me, and I do mean her ENTIRE life. As a matter of fact, she came to me yesterday with some questions about how babies are made. We had a very nice chat in which I told her that I am SO happy that we can talk about ANYTHING. It was one of those precious life moments that I truly treasure.
LG, I agree that Drac is going to use any opportunity to take a poke at me through whatever means possible. I TOTALLY don't understand it, but I do recognize it.
As so many have written on this board,,if they are SO happy in AffairLand, why the need to poke at the BS?
I did, in fact, have my attorney respond to the parenting plan issue. This weekend was not in that response, so it was necessary to communicate with Drac about it. MY ERROR, however, was having any expectation of truth or decency about it from him. DUH!! I expected him to recognize & acknowledge that I was giving him part of what is my holiday,,,,,,,,,,that I was being "flexible".
So silly of me to expect that from him. As I wasn't flexible in the exact way that he wanted, it isn't going to be acknowledged by him. I have to remember,,,, Bugs = Evil Ex who is responsible for Everything Wrong in Drac's World! Oh, and don't forget about the global warming! ha!
We had a GREAT time at the zoo yesterday!! Lots of laughs and talks about everything.
She still asks about Drac & I getting back together. I think that with the recent holiday it's been on her mind. She said that "SOMEDAY, Daddy's going to say he is really sorry for everything." She then asked me what I would do if he did say he was really sorry. I wasn't sure how to answer that, and so that is what I told her, "I don't know".
Last week she asked me if I still loved him. I somewhat skirted the question and did not answer head on with a yes or no. I DID explain to her that it is possible to love someone even though they have done hurtful things. I don't want to give her false hope, but I don't want her to think that when someone hurts you that you just stop loving them. It's such a fine line to walk.
Last night DD's best friend from school called & she went over there for a sleep over. So Bugs gets a day to her self today! That is an unexpected surprise!
I think I'll finish straightening the house & go outside to get started on yard clean up. I am SO ready for SPRING!!
Hi, I was just checkin in to see what was going on...I'm sure that I'm thought of the same way by POWS, if not I will be soon...LMAO
The lost of his lawyer, financial ruin, the lose of his kids, his house and soon his 401...
My thought: WE reap what we sow...consequences sure are a B((CTH..
:shrugging:
Good to hear that you and DD are doing so well...I'm sorry that I haven't gotten back to you...I completely lost my senerity yesterday but the world is beautiful today!
Rin
Hey Bugs,
How's life? Keeping busy? Learning new stuff, enjoying those kids?
I miss you
Page 5 or 6, I can't remember it's too early.
You stop in and comment on some threads and don't let us know how you are doing? WE MISS YOU....
Bug Bombs with no update. You must be doing well!
Hey everyone!
I really can't believe it has been so long since I've updated. Sorry & thanks for checking on me.
Just seems less important to write about myself and my sitch than it once was. Turing over most of the worry to God helps me focus on more than just 'me', and it's working out pretty darn well.
Let's see,,,, where to begin?
Drac, DSS, the HO, and her son have now setup house. THAT has been VERY hard for me. Yet, I continue to hold to the hope that by having 'reality' now in their lives that it will help lead to the eventual demise of the A. Many things have happened in just the first month of their new setup that indicate it's not "The Happiest Place on Earth".
Drac continues to be an A #1 A-Hole as often as possible. I'm continuing to improve with letting all of that slide right off like water off a duck's back. There are times where my feathers get ruffled, but not nearly as often or as severely as in the past.
Matter of fact, recently he turned a communication about his NEVER YET paying a penny towards DD's activities into the usual rant of his about things *I* have done. I simply told him that I refuse to go over and over and over the same old drivel all of the time. Then I said, "Believe me or don't. Pay your share or don't. I really don't care."
It felt GREAT!!
Turns out that the boat that he "Will never sell EVER",,,remember the one that he is going to go down with to the bottom of the lake someday because that boat is soooo important?? Yep, he sold it. AND the 4-wheelers. AND remember that motorcycle he DIDN'T buy while we were still married? Seems he sold that too. Poor baby. Mean old BUGS never wanted him to have any of those toys but he bought them anyway because it was important for him to have what he wanted.
Gone. Every one of them.
However, rest assured everyone,,,I am quite certain that the sale of the toys IS most Definately MY fault. Along with everything up to and including Global warming,,,,ALL Bugs fault.
For now.
DD and DSS both are doing well with me. Not so much over at the A-House, but Drac doesn't see it. He only sees the 'happy family' he's trying so hard to create. I'm just sitting back and waiting for reality to burst that bubble. I am not going to risk being hit by the flying debris when the explosion comes,,,and it will.
The Ho's son is a handfull. I've already had several conversations with my kids about how to handle that sitch. Drac doesn't see how his relationship with both kids is being negatively impacted. He won't admit it but I know he sees that things over there are not well. He told DD the other night that she needs to stop telling me things that the other boy does because "Mommy's going to stop letting you come over here".
WTF??? Good thing baby Bugs has such a good foundation, as she knew that was a bunch of crapole.
I talked to Drac's dad last week, ran into him at work. He told me "Babe, I wouldn't trade 3 of her for one of you. Never." He didn't have to say that and it did make me feel good. He went on later to say that he is certain that Drac and the Ho will NOT last. And even HE had not nice things to say about her son, and he's only been around him one time! YIKES!
Now, I will say that I still have a great amount of feeling for Drac. The other day I was out of town on business and got a cell call from a friend. This is the wife of one of Drac's best friends from high school. We spent a lot of time together as couples/families,,vacations, etc. She & I have kept in contact.
She needed Drac's number,,,she was at the hospital totally hysterical as her husband had just attempted suicide. Yep MAJOR bad. He's going to be ok, Thank GOD!! But they have a long road ahead.
So,,,,,,,,,,I did call Drac after keeping her on the phone until she was a bit more together and someone had arrived to be with her. He had apparently just heard from someone else. I spent just a minute giving him a bit of encouragement & trying to be sure he was focused enough to drive safely to the hospital. He just asked me to take care of DD, as he was supposed to have her that night.
He did call the next am, but I was on the phone for business. He sent a VERY brief email update, as he wasn't sure if his wife's friend had called me yet. That's the last I've heard from him about this. I KNOW him and KNOW that this is having a MAJOR impact on him emotionally. How exactly that will be,, who knows? Will it draw him closer to the HO? Maybe. But, I am leaving that to God.
I had thoughts of doing more in the sitch, but after praying about it I didn't. There were people I could have called to help him, or I could have sent TMs or called to see how he and his friend were,,,,,but I didn't. I just felt that it's no longer my place to provide the support even in this kind of sitch. He has chosen the Ho, it's time to see how their R bears up under this kind of pressure. It's going to be long term effect on Drac.
I am very thankful that our friend is alive and going to finally get the help he really needs. That is the most important thing. He has a good wife and 3 beautiful little girls who love & need him. He's a great guy and I am so grateful he did not succeed. Please keep him & his family in your prayers!!
As for me, to quote a good friend of mine, "I'm livin' the Dream, Baby"! Really, I feel pretty good and am happy. I still have a meltdown here and there. I still have love for my H, but it's been a very very long time since I've seen him. I wonder if I ever will see him again. Still hoping that I will.
Gotta run,,,,time to get the kiddos ready for church. I will try to update more frequently in the future,,,,,,,,,,,but will most likely drop the Bug Bombs more than the updates. It's so much more fun!
kids are so smart aren't they?
my son said the other day that he saw "some guy riding with ow the other day" did not know who he was or if maybe they were carpooling to work but said he was sure his dad wouldn't like it. (his dad is out of town for 6 weeks for training) **snickers**
then my dd says "gee, i wonder if she is trying to wreck another family"
out of the mouths of babes.
mlhb
I had thoughts of doing more in the sitch, but after praying about it I didn't. There were people I could have called to help him, or I could have sent TMs or called to see how he and his friend were,,,,,but I didn't. I just felt that it's no longer my place to provide the support even in this kind of sitch. He has chosen the Ho, it's time to see how their R bears up under this kind of pressure. It's going to be long term effect on Drac.
EXACTLY!! I still encourage the PLAN B scenario for you although not necessary since you are divorced. Let him learn that she cannot meet those needs.
"I'm livin' the Dream, Baby"!
WONDERFUL NEWS!!
It's sooo GREAT to hear from you...
Visit on THE GODDESS THREAD if/when you get the chance...
(((((BUGSY))))
Along with everything up to and including Global warming,,,,ALL Bugs fault.
Well, I think we can all agree that your plan A did heat the planet a smidge
Could you please send some of your global warming my way?
It was snowing again this weekend.
I wish I were as powerful as you!
Atta-girl! What are you doing for FUN these days?
Ahhh.. yet more inspiration for those of us trying to recover ourselves while riding on the D-Train..
Sending massive amounts of respect in your direction woman. You're doing awesome.
Slowly making my way there. Got a long way to go to catch up with you, but it's great to see that there's happiness and contentment not too far away.
(((((Bugs!))))
Bugs:
Glad to hear from you!
No, if we could just sniff out LilSis for an update, that would be great.
Glad to see that things are going well for you.
You have a very perceptive ex-FIL. To bad he didn't bring more of those thoughts to the surface with Drac earlier in this process. Water under that bridge, I guess.
(((Bugsy)))
LG
Hi everyone!
Thanks for stopping by!
My daughter is one of the most perceptive people I know. Kids ARE simply amazing!
I do try to keep up with the Goddess thread. I hope to have more time to contribut here in the near future. Plan B is for me for the forseeable future. As you say, Mimi, let the Ho fail to meet the needs all on her own!
Gee, I DO miss some of thoe 'hot' days of Plan A,,,,for a lot of reasons!
I am working on my Global Warming skills. I am trying to perfect the positioning capabilities. If successful, you all will be invited to test my new business. GWVG,Inc
Global Warming Vacation Guarantee, Inc. You give me the dates & location of your vacation and for a reasonable fee, I guarantee warm weather for the duration!
I'll be honest, I really do have days that I still struggle. I suppose that means that I'm not as 'done' as I would have hoped by now.
A recent exchange with Drac surprised me, or perhaps just reminded me at the WS ability to twist reality so much. I laugh about being responsible for every wrong or bad thing in the world, but it does still hurt sometimes. It hurts that the person I loved (love) so much has created in his mind this image of me that is so WRONG.
He has managed to totally vilify me in his mind. It just amazes me how that is possible. No matter what I do or say, he takes to the totally wrong place. I don't manipulate/control him or anything situation that has to do with him. I don't concern myself with him, the HO, or any of their activities and I try very very hard to keep communication to the bare minimal facts necessary.
I am happy. I do enjoy life. I spend time having fun with my kids, doing activates with them, working in my home & yard, spending time with friends and family.
And yet there is still the Longing to have the man I still love come forward and say that he was wrong. For him to SEE ME, the REAL me that he loved enough to marry, the one he once said was 'perfect', the woman he KNOWS is loving/kind, and for him to acknowledge that not only am I STILL that person, but am an improved version. It wouldn't even need to be that he loves me or wants to reconcile with me. I just want him to admit that I am not the person he has been making me out to be for this last year.
Why do I care about what he thinks of me? I don't know. I don't want to care, but I do.
Don't get me wrong. I KNOW that I AM a wonderful, loveable, worthy, special, giving, loving, caring, sexy, fabulous Goddess! It's not that I am totally lacking in self-esteem. That has definitely improved from my very low point of this situation. I know that God has a plan for my life, and for my kids, and even for Drac. I am content (for the most part on most days), to sit back with Him in the driver's seat for my life. I know I don't have to worry,,, about anything. He will provide. He's always working in my best interest and as long as I allow Him, he will guide my path.
I also am together enough these days to acknowledge that feelings of "I want" still exist when it comes to Drac.
I still want all of the things above from him.
I still want the affair with the Ho to end
I still want him to realize the anguish and pain his actions have caused the entire family
I still want to rebuild my marriage for me, for my kids, my husband
I still want him to address the issues/problems of his past so that he can heal & have a happier life/future
So, thanks everyone for the kudos of my 'success', , , I do appreciate it. I just want you all to understand I'm not 100% - 100% of the time. The good thing is that the good feelings are there most of the time. I'm not perfect, never will be, and that really is one of the things I've learned to like about myself!
LG, you are right about the water under the bridge. In fact, I try very hard to toss all of my 'If Only' thoughts into the river to flow under the bridge. It is hard sometimes, but haning on to those thoughts hurts, too.
HEY SIS!! If you are reading this give us an update. We miss you!
Hi Bugs,
I miss talking to you and seeing you on here. What you have just wrote is my words exactly.
The growth in your is simply amazing and yet the elogance of still showing the pain and accepting it for what it is, gives me hope that I am not crazy and will somehow survive this. As hard as it is.
You know that Drac is a fool, we know it, but somehow that just feels empty at times and I admire how you acknowledge the pain, but keep moving forward building a life.
{{{{{{{{{{{Bugs}}}}}}}}}}}
Hi Queenie,,, and everyone!
There has been a disturbance in the Force this week. Up to yesterday, I have been doing really well with the "All Negative Things in the Universe are Bugs Fault" reality that Drac resides in.
I'll try to keep it short. I had problems with DSS over this weekend that I had to share with Drac. Prior to my emailing him about those issues, he attacked me about a yardsale in which I sold some records that were "his" that were "the only things he had gotten when his grandmother passed away".
These precious records were in a bin that he'd told me several years ago to give away because he did not want them. Then they sat outside on the porch for months until I brought them in the house to keep them from being ruined. His email, which was based on his bi-weekly interrogation of DSS after he his with me included wonderful things like "you are not teaching our children what is right" and "you have stooped so low". It was veiled in "the kids are very upset about you selling my things"
I did not respond to that email, as it stated he "wanted nothing" from me. I instead got to the business at hand about DSS. We exchanged a couple of decent emails in which I find out that there are NUMEROUS issues with DSS that have been going on for some time,,,,,,,,,but that he had never shared with me.
DSS was in terror over what he anticipated Drac's response to be about the weekend events, so I called DSS to reassure him AND I also talked to him about the yardsale issue, as the information of Drac's email had come from him. I explained to him that he needs to have all of the facts. The records that were Drac's grandmother's were taken out and never included in the yardsale. I had every intention of giving them to him. But, I was already condemned. Poor kid,,, I felt bad. Yet he needs to understand that although I have been very explicit in the fact that we have no secrets at my house, that he doesn't always know everything and that if he was concerned about the records he should have talked to me first.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,skipping a lot of detail here, I asked Drac yesterday how his talk with DSS went. Drac had said he was going to seek professional help for DSS. He's been having a lot of issues with him.
Let me note here that the 'issues' he is having are really nothing new. The difference is that DRAC is now having to deal with them instead of me.
Drac's reply was one or two sentences. I asked for more detail and received a "lecture" in return. This one included how I had supposedly kept DSS's Christmas ornaments and refused to give them to him,,only letting him put them on the tree at my house. Plus then Drac went on how I won't communicate on anything other than what *I* want to communicate about. He even pointed out that I only have DSS 4 days a month while HE has to deal with all of this every day! YIKES!!
Bottom line is that he stated he will not "rehash" everything about DSS in email.
My reply was, "if you chose not to share that is your choice".
That did not suit, so he had to reply that it is "because of the situation that *I* created" that he won't share. That we should put aside our 'personal differences' long enough to help the kids. Oh, and I should merely be happy with knowing that DSS is going to get professional help. And lastly he complained about how I totally ignored his email about the records, as well as all of the other issues he'd raised.
I laughed so hard I almost peed my pants. I love how I am to blame for everything!!
So, I sent one last reply in which I told him that email works for me. It doesn't work for him. It is what it is. I prefer email not because of him or any 'personal differences', but for my own personal reasons that obviously are of no concern to him.
I told him that I wasn't ignoring the things he'd brought up. In fact, I'd thought about them a great deal. However, I will not engage in non-stop self defense. It matters not what I say about any of it, so why comment one way or another?
I told him that I am at a place in my life where constant conflict produces nothing but negative, so I just dont' do it.
I want to be involved in DSS's live so that I can give him the best love and support possible. That's all
I haven't gotten any reply. And, after having the records delivered to him today, still no response.
I'm not surprised.
I will admit to giving in to the disturbance in the Force that first day. For the first time in a long time, it ruined my day. I accomplished nothing. It pissed me off that I allowed him to disturb my peace like that.
I called my pastor and talked to him for about an hour about things and felt better later. I felt better after my last email - - I was glad that I was able to respond in a self focused rather than accusatory or reactionary mode.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,there's more but it's not worth the detail right now. I haven't slept much and am exhasted.
Think I'll treat myself to a bath and bed. I'll give a better 'real life' update later!
Do you think it's the OLD PATTERN of needing to have YOU as a topic of conversation with the HO?
I told him that I am at a place in my life where constant conflict produces nothing but negative, so I just dont' do it.
Me, too..but you are such a YOUNGSTER...
Bugsy, stay away from him...HE'S POISON...
BUGS!
How you doing!
Please stop this global warming thing! We've had enough fun with it.
How about this:
Drac:
There are no longer any "personal differences"
We are divorced. I fought to save our marriage every step of the way. Until it was done.
You found a replacement and decided to remove me from your "future" family.
You are correct. I have DSS 4 days a month. He is your son and you have pointed out on numerous occasions that he is your responsibility. My 4 days a month is not enough to influence your son nor provide the relationship that I used to have with him.
This is your responsibility now. This isn't about "personal differences" You have divorced me. It's even to much effort for you to explain to me what his "issues" are and HOW you would like me to help you with DSS.
This isn't about doing it "my way" You can't seem to even to articulate "your way" so we could follow that path.
Sorry, Drac. Your here from your choices.
Bugsy.
You would love to send that. And you should. Just start Reverse Babbling him. Let him own it.
LG
Hey bugs,
Good to see you back.
I'm in the same boat as you, although D is not final yet. It's pretty frustrating when they blame you for everything. I'm still trying to work through that. My WH is even more hostile than yours. I forced the sale of the house, so it totally threw his arrangement off track. He no longer had me at home to take care of everything while he travelled with OP. I wonder if they really believe it or if it's just a cover up for what they've done.
You are doing great and I'm getting there too. His hostility towards me is becoming such a big LB that I may soon be in Believer's court and not want him back. Look's like we both have a blockhead WH.
Keep posting because it's good for those of us walking behind you. You are our strength...
Its so so so good to hear from you!
I really like LG's letter. If I were you I'd send it then go darker.
DSS is a casualty of his father's choices. I just don't think he is going to allow you to be DSS's mother in the way you were.
I think you need to carve out a new relationship with DSS -- one that Drac can't interfere with.
Drac is an angry man. And he desperatly wants to blame his constant state of unhappiness on you. You have to remove yourself as his target. As long as he can direct his anger at you and blame you -- he won't examine himself. He is headed for a major depression....when he realizes he has to blame himself not only for his own unhappiness but also DSS's. Get out of his way!
All a product of his choices.
I would hand his [censored] back to him on a silver platter, a la LG style. At a certain point, you must take a stand against his abusive behavior. There is a boundary to be drawn here. Sticks and stones, sure, but his words can hurt, and can muck up your serenity. Just how it is.
Just the facts is where I am with PWC now. I don't care what his struggle is, 'cause it's his, and there is nothing I can or will do to help, just as my struggle is mine. It's pointless banter. Just the facts, please, with a clear plan of attack.
Just my opinion. I would hand his problems back to him.
I liked LG's letter and agree with Lexxy. He's very angry and looking for someone to blame. Stay clear.
(((Bugs)))
Thanks everyone for your replies,,,,,,,,,,,you are ALL right on target as far as I can tell.
Drac is a very angry man and has been that way for a while from what I have heard. I don't know if he's really headed for depression, because as you said Lexx, that would mean that he's having to look at himself and I have serious doubts if he's at that point. Will he ever get there? Who knows?
I LOVED the letter, LG! I'm not sending, though, as the 'incident' has passed. I'll just wait for the next one. We ALL know there will most certainly BE a next one.
Let me take this opportunity to apologize to all the folks in the Midwest for all of the recent rain & storms! You all know it's all my fault!
Friday night Baby Bugs had softball practice. It's Drac's weekend, but he couldn't take her. DSS had a dentist appt that conflicted (he only had that appt because Drac MISSED the last one). Both appts, the office called ME with the appointment reminder, which I passed along to Drac.
So,,,,,,,,, I took her to practice. Drac showed up with 30 minutes to go. I was on the field with her helping out,,,throwing fly balls to her. He eventually came out and helped the coach with some batting drills with the other girls. I walked up to him & DSS when they got there and asked DSS about his dentist appt. I totally ignored Drac. After I asked DSS, Drac told him to go to the car and get the 'report' from the dentist and show me.
Anyway,,,,,,,,,I helped out and when not helping, I chatted with the other parents. Drac was on his own, looking like the outsider. I absolutely LOVED when her coach went on & on about how GREAT her glove is. Drac had bought her a glove, but did not tell me, so when it was time for her first practice, I took her the night before and bought a REAL glove. I played ball & having the right glove was very important to me and I wanted her to have the best to start with.
Drac was standing right there when the coach was telling another parent that THIS was the perfect glove to buy. Baby Bugs then turns to me and says, "Yeah, the glove Daddy bought isn't as good as this one.". Right in front of him!
I know it is probably EVIL and PETTY of me, but I will freely admit that it made me feel good. He's always been the "one upsman" kind of guy. Of course, I am sure that my having bought such a nice glove was only because of the child support he pays and that I did it for horrible reasons! Whatever!!
The truth is he has not paid one PENNY for any of her dance, gymnastics, or even the 1/2 of the softball he said he'd pay. I quit even bringing any of it up because it turned into the typical lecture of what I've done wrong.
He's was supposed to get her a batting helmet for 3 weeks. Not seen one yet. This weekend he's supposed to get her shorts and socks,,,,,,,,,,,,I am hoping that I'm not running to the store on Monday before her game to get them.
Other than all of that crapola, I've been doing better since earlier in the week. Today my sister & I took Mom to see Jersey Boys,,,the musical. It was great and Mom LOVED it! She never gets to do that kind of thing, so it was very special.
Well, think I'm going for the candlight bubble bath & glass of wine. I need to get the sound of the HO's voice in the background of Baby Bugs call tonight outta my head.
Thanks again guys! You always help me step back & take another look at things, and I really appreciate it!
Bugs,
The last few posts have really shown me how similar out WH's are.
I applaud you now more than ever and am so proud of yourself restraint.
Since you are getting blamed for the weather in the midwest, how about a little more sunshine my way so I can blame you as well.
Enjoy that bath girl, you deserve it.
It's been a really long time since my kids played organized sports.....however...the headlouse lives...please get her a helmet before you have a funky hair crisi!!! I learned the hard way that "thou shalt not share head gear from any sport"!! GF
GF,,,,all I can say to that is EWWWW!
Well, the first game was last night and I am so PROUD of Baby Bugs! They are on a 'coached' pitched team, but have girls in positions for pitcher and catcher. Baby Bugs was the first inning catcher (they switch every inning). I was a catcher when I played ball, so I helped her gear up and went out to help her into position & ended up being back up/gear coach for the entire game.
Baby Bugs did NOT want to catch, but she put in good effort despite her displeasure. At 7yrs old, that's pretty good. She got one hit in the game, too! She just needs some confidence & she's going to be great. I think this is really HER sport.
Drac didn't come. I am so angry for Baby Bugs, ,but have let it go. DSS came in Sunday when Drac brought DD home and asked me if I could pick him up to go to DD's ball game. I said sure, but why isn't Drac bringing you?
Get this,,, he had a charity GOLF TOURNAMENT. Now, guys, I know how your golf can be really important, but let's consider some facts.
#1. Drac doesn't golf #2. It was a charity thing that he could have backed out of #3. The actual PLAY of golf was over well before DD's game time #4. The HO was home when I picked up DSS (before 5pm and she stood looking out the door at an angle trying to get a look at me!) #5. When I took DSS home, Drac's car was there, but the HO's wasn't. No One was home. I am pretty sure he came home after playing, picked up the HO for the dinner,,,,,,,,,,,,,but LIED to his kids about it all.
What a shame. It's yet another Single Special Moment in time that he will never get back.
I had a ball!! I'm going to be the coach at the plate again at tomorrow's game.
Unfortunately, today I was searching for an old email and came across exchanges from this time last year. Emails of the loss of my nephew, Drac's continued lies, and then the ultimate of his being angry with me for "costing him his relationship with the HO". That was a CLASSIC.
I do much better with seeing that stuff and not getting into a total meltdown. I feel sad, it twinges, it hurts, but it no longer consumes me. So, progress.
I heard a program about forgiveness today,,,,,,,that is mulling around in my head. When I'm able to put some description to it, I'll share. It's got me thinking a lot of stuff.
Oh, have heard nothing more about DSS getting into counseling. Drac did email with summer daycare info for Baby Bugs this summer,,,,,,,,,he actually had the balls to call my sister and ask her to be an emergency contact if neither of us is available!! She traded vm messages with him and of course said Yes. She'd do anything for the kids. Wonder if he realized that it would not be right to make the HO the contact or if she refused to do it???
So, what does everyone have planned for the holiday weekend?
Gotta run, , Baby Bugs is at a friend's house & I need to pick her up.
I am teaching my son to bat and play catch right now. He's pretty good. When he does hit the ball, it's solid and you can tell he KNOWS that he's got it. His throwing needs some work, but he's pretty accurate and throws pretty hard. He's pretty good with a spiral now and then on the football, too. It's nice to get out there with him and play. I'm going to enroll him in the coach pitch fall camp, to see how he likes it, and then hopefully put him in the coach pitch league next spring.
Sounds like you are doing well, Bugsy. Hugs to you and yours.
Hey Bugs, sounds like you are doing well.
Glad to hear from some of my fellow MB warriors who were in the thick of battle along side of me.
Guess I need to update my own thread.
Hugs for Bugs.
Oh, and you are doing Mah-ve-lous!
Hey Bugs,
Checking in to see how you are doing and what's happening in your next of life.
{{{{{Bugs}}}}}}
Hey Queenie!
I was just thinking I needed to do an update. I just got out of the shower after working outside most of the day,,,,getting the pool open (finally), and doing yard work. It's HOT here today!
Well, let's see what's new?
Really life has been pretty good. I made it though having Drac at at couple of DD's ball games. I let go of the fact that he 'used' me as a sitter for DSS so he and the HO could go to a dinner. That's a trick I won't fall for again in the future.
I made it through DD's dance recital with him being there, too. I think I did well. I did actually have to 'speak' to him a couple of times, but I did it in a manner that said "You are nothing to me". The usual butterflies I've felt when having to see him were more like knats this time around, so that's an improvement.
One BAAAD thing that I am still struggling with - - This was to be my weekend w/both kids. DSS's birthday is Sunday. Drac emailed earlier this week saying that "We are having family over for DSS's birthday Sunday. He needs to be home at 10am. I would hope that you will allow DD to come. I will have her home at 7 or 8 pm'.
That message didn't really bother me. I simply replied that we get out of church around 10:30 and I'd bring them over then.
Well, Thurs. at dance recital DSS told my mom that he wouldn't be with me this weekend???? I didn't find out until after we had left the recital. So, yesterday I operated as normal with the plan to pick up DSS and take him home early on Sunday. It's not unusual that Drac doesn't keep DSS in the loop with his plans.
DSS is still in school until next week. I dropped my phone in the pool (yeah swift move, I know!), so I needed to pick up a replacement. I first picked up DD from daycare and went by the phone store. While there, DSS left a vm that I picked up when we left. He said he thought he was staying there for the weekend.
I called him right away. He said "I thought I was staying here for the whole weekend". I replied, "And??? DD and I are on our way to get you."
He replied, "Well I thought I was staying here".
I told him "It's our weekend to be together. Are you telling me you don't want to come?"
Bottom line is that he wouldn't come out and say he didn't want to come, but only that he was staying there.
My HEART TOTALLY BROKE (again).
I told him that I was very dissappointed that I wouldn't be seeing him and that I'd call him on his birthday. I tried very hard not to, but I broke down crying. DD was very sweet,,,,,,,,,she was upset because I was upset.
At first, it felt like I was being left all over again. I took the time and allowed myself a bit of a pity party. Then, I bucked it up and realized that this isn't about ME.
Who knows what's happening over there,,,,,,,,,,or what's happening betweeen him & Drac,,,,,,,,,,and he's a teenage boy so who knows what's happening.
I know he loves me. He knows I love him. I'll be here when he wants to be here. That's all I can do. YES, it totally hurts, but that's part of being a Mom sometimes.
I was further hurt when I found out that Drac left him alone last night. I sent TM asking Drac to confirm that he know DSS was staying there (just in case he 'assumed' I had picked him up and didn't go home to know that DSS was still there). He sent tm back saying "Yes, DSS told me last night he wasn't going over. I told him to call you."
OUCH!! Guess he just had to put in that dig that it was DSS's decision not to come over. Was it really necessary to hurt me like that?
Then, turns out Drac called his dad yesterday to have him come get DSS for today, maybe for tonight?? I thought he was staying with DRAC. Well, we can't have Drac and the HO giving up any of their weekend plans now can we???
I do know that some of Drac's family is coming up for DSS's bday party tomorrow. I'm glad for DSS. I was told by some of them that they are only doing it for DSS, even though they do not approve of what Drac has done and what he continues to do. I replied, "Hey, Drac is your family. You should be there.".
I am sure I'll get some great reports about the HO later. I don't want to know to tell you the truth. That's their life, not mine. A lot of this is about Drac 'showing off' his big new house & his cool new woman for everyone. He doesn't understand that they could not care less about either of those things & they think he's an a-hole. But, family is family. Let them worry about it.
I'm really pleased that I'm not wondering/thinking much about what's going on over there. It's hard sometimes.
Oh,,,,,,,, I almost forgot. I found out that Drac is pushing hard to get one of the other females from his former work (where he met the HO), hired at our place of employment! I think he may have even had something going on with her at one time,,,,,,,,,. I hope they do hire her. First, she won't make it in the job and that won't look good on Drac AND I have a feeling it will not make the HO happy to have those 2 spending a lot of time together.
Due to having my phone out of commission, I used my Blackberry to call DSS and TM Drac this last week. TWICE I've gotten calls on it from this area that were a female saying she had the wrong number. The Blackberry has an Area Code from a totally different city/area, so it's not likely that anyone would be calling it from this area. I think the HO is checking up on Drac. I didn't think much of it the first time it happened, but the second time made me wonder,,,,,,,,,,and then it made me LAUGH~
So, DD is at a friend's house for a couple of hours. I am going to finish landry and clean house. May take DD out for dinner tonight. I'd planned to let DSS pick somewhere for his B-day - - guess we'll just do it another time.
Thanks for checking on me Queenie! Your thread sounds like you are doing really well yourself! Good for you!!!
Hi everyone else that popped by!! EPH - -great to hear from you!!
I'm really pleased that I'm not wondering/thinking much about what's going on over there. It's hard sometimes.
YES it IS.....
But in taking care of ourself, it's best to stay out of more sickness and disease.
I can only imagine how hard the DSS sitch is for you. I am so blessed in that my kids are with me and I know what's going on with them pretty much for the most part. I believe YS is in contact with WH, but I have no clue. He doesn't talk about him and I only ask every so often now. In fact we hardly talk about WH anymore and I quickly change the subject.
Isn't it amazing, how we give them what they wanted, their freedom to live their life and yet they have this desire to mess up our any chance they get in their own ways. What is UP with that? Unfortunately we think in level headed terms, they are monsters thinking through diseased filters. Maybe one day for them...
You are doing amazing, your growth is awesome and I love hearing about your life.
Please keep in touch.
Bugs,
I'll say it again - you are an inspiration to all of us following in your footsteps. Thanks for keeping us updated. It helps to see that there is life after an A.
Since I've bombed several other threads, I figured it was time to bomb my own with an update.
Nothing earth shattering to report.
I did get an unsolicited update on the DSS b-day party at the HoHouse from Drac's family. Seems family started arriving at the house and the Ho was out at the store. Hmmmm, that's great party planning. The HO-stess isn't even there when the guests arrive.
Did I mention before that HIS family called ME for directions when they were lost on the way to the party? YEP. For Real. Seems his directions got them all lost, and they did not have HIS phone number to call him. Then HE got mad when he found out about it. I wonder - how do you think that has been turned into being MY fault, because you all know Everything that makes him the least bit unhappy or which may make him look bad in any way IS my fault.
After walking through the un-mowed lawn, into the house and "barely being able to walk through the family room because of the mess", Drac took them on a tour of the house. They were upstairs looking all the "disaster" bedrooms when the HO-stess returns and yells up the stairs "Don't take them up there, I haven't had time to clean?" Drac simply replies, "Yes dear" without letting her know that the damage was done.
Now, I don't know about you all, but I was raised that if you are having company,,,,,,,,,,,,,and it's the first time you are meeting most of them,,,,,,,,,,,,and they've never been to your house before,,,,,,,,,,,,,you stay up all night if necessary to have your house CLEAN and the party READY when they arrive.
Hmmm - Well it's probably one of those "boring, old fashioned" things about me that Drac came to hate and that obviously isn't important. They were probably too busy with DSS doing fun things the day/night before the party. OOPs,,,,,,that can't be right. Drac had FIL pick up DSS on Saturday afternoon and bring him back on Sunday for the party.
One of Drac's Aunt's is the sweetest lady. She LOVES all kids. I don't think she's ever met a child she didn't like - - until now. She does not like, does not trust, and did not have anything nice to say about the Ho's son. I about fell off my chair when I heard that. I don't know the details of what happened & didn't ask.
Summary - His house is nice, but none of them would live there & it was a mess. The Ho tried to be nice, but no one really cares for her. The Ho's son is nothing but trouble. The HoHouse is not going to be a lasting situation. They are all glad they went for the sake of DSS AND so that they can now all come to my house next month for a party. They all know Drac won't like it and they don't care. I'm sure I'll be cussed up one side and down the other for having them over.
All has been quiet on the Drac front lately. They haven't had to create anything new to blame me for lately, so either things are fabulous or really bad. Either way, I'm glad I'm safe on the dark side of Pluto with Chrisner.
We had a great weekend. We took DSS out for this birthday dinner Friday night and had a blast! It really was a lot of fun. Sat. the kids helped clean up the house while I finished up cleaning the pool. We were in the pool all afternoon & then had a quiet evening watching tv and chilling out. Sunday was church and then back in the pool. We had neighbor kids over both days & were invited to neighbors Sun. for dinner before having to take them to Drac's house. It was really nice.
I told DD to go change to go to Daddy's. She asked what she should wear. I told her to pick out what she wanted. She replied, "Really?" I said, "Yes, really. Can't you pick out something? You do it all of the time." She replied, "Well Daddy won't let me do that when I come home. He is really picky about what I wear here. I can't wear what HE buys when I come here."
I simply said, "well, honey, those are YOUR clothes. You can wear what you want" It wasn't necessary to say anything more. She sees it for what it is.
On the ride over to Drac's, she & DSS were talking about silly fantasy stuff. Like how to set a trap and punish people that do bad things. DD says, "Well I wish I had one of those. I'd use it on Ho's son". Yikes! I am already paying special attention here (Lord knows that Drac isn't). I try not to ask her a bunch of questions, but I am concerned about their interaction. Especially since DD told my mom that he sometimes sleeps in the lower bunk in her room "because he gets lonely." I don't like the idea of a boy who is not related to her sleeping in her room. I don't like it at all. I've checked into my options, and the best I can do is keep the communication open with her so that I know what's going on (or should I say NOT going on) and pray.
I wrote all of the above yesterday morning, but didn't have time to post it - - so I'll update from here about the rest of yesterday.
DD is at Drac's this week. She had a ballgame last night. Drac emails 15 minutes before game time that they are 'running late, on the way.'. It takes 20 minutes tops from his house - they got there an hour later. DD only got to play 1/2 inning. She told me that the highway they were on was "shut down".
Now I can understand if a traffic problem happened, but it should have never been an issue. If he'd been on time, it wouldn't have been one. Well, life is about priorities and we all know where Drac's are. It just frustrates me because of an earlier email from him in which he said, ,
"I've been working all day planning to get out early to take DD to her game early for pictures. I checked my calendar and I have down that pictures are on Monday. Is that what you have?
If that is the case, I can't be there I have 'X' at work that I can not miss"
WTF? What was the purpose of that? To really ask about the picture date OR to let me know WHY he won't be at her game next Mon? The 'x' reason for missing the game could be construed as "important" or somewhat 'impressive'. Like I am supposed to give a flying 'f' about what he's doing??
Later he also sent email asking to have the kids my next Sunday. His family does an annual trip to the rural/family cemetary and it's on my day. I already knew about it. His family had already invited me. Last year it was my day with the kids and I took them. HE refused to go because *I* was there.
I'll let him have them for the day. I think it's important to have them involved in family traditions. HOWEVER, I really, really want to ask how this is any different than last year when he didn't let DD come to my nephew's memorial service???!!! But, it would accomplish nothing to bring that up. I haven't responded yet to the email. Still pondering what I'll say.
Gotta run! Busy work day!
Oh,,,,,,,thanks for the kind words all. I don't feel like someone to be 'admired', I feel like just another BS doing the best she can!
Thank God for the help He gives me!!
Hey Bugs,
Sounds like the Ho-House is a healthy place. Hose the kids down before you let them back in your place. lol
That's great that you have a good relationship with his family. Use it to your advantage. My brother D'd my XSIL and M his AP. Of course, we were all told that she was not an AP but we knew better. Anyway, we all loved my XSIL. She was like a sister to me since my brother was so much older and they M when I was 10. I basically grew up with her. Practically lived at their house through my teens. I was about 38 when they D'd and my parents and I were crushed. My bro ended up M to the AP who we all hated. My parents tried to be nice to her, and so did I, but she was just a B. Through the years, we continued to stay in touch with my XSIL. She loved my parents and they loved her like their own child, but it used to make my bro so angry. He would say that he wished she would stay away from his family because he didn't bother hers, she was no longer in the family blah blah blah. After his AP left him for someone else, I realized that it caused a huge problem in the M. AP was always jealous that XSIL was preferred over her. HA! Had I thought about it then, I would have done all I could to make her feel like the outsider. I just didn't have the perspective on infidelity that I have now. It was hard for my parents though, because they didn't want to lose my bro over it. They were really torn when he got ticked. So...keep those relationships strong. It does cause friction in the Ho-House.
Not sure how old Ho's son is, but that is a scary sitch for your precious D. Seems that you could do something about them sleeping in the same room. Can't even believe that Drac would allow it to happen.
Keep posting. Whether you know it or not, you are a big help to me who is following closely behind you.
Hey Chai!
Thanks for the input on the Ex-laws. They really have been very nice to me through this whole thing. They are just now finding out more of the truth of what happened, which has only made them more firm in their thinking.
It's funny that one of Drac's Aunt's called me today by mistake, but ended up talking to me for 45 minutes. She's going to send me pics of DSS from his bday party. She said that "that BROAD" isn't in any of them. I told her if she had one with her in it to send it so I could finally see what she looks like!
Plus, she then gave me an entire new low down on how it all went.
Nothing much different than what I'd already heard, but there were a few bonus things she told me. In fact, I came here this evening to vent because one of the things has made me soo mad!!
First for the good/funny part. Apparently the HO asked her if they found the place ok. She told the HO, "No, as a matter of fact, we got lost 2x. It was too early to call my daughter because she has a late sleep schedule, so we called BUGS!" The Ho's back was turned to her when she said it, but she is sure that it didn't sit well at all.
From her description of guess it's true, that Drac is made of money - everything they have in that house is all brand new. New furniture, new outside furniture, new bedroom, new woman, new kid, new family. Must be sweeet! Well, perhaps except for the big ol pile of DEBT that goes along with it all.
The aunt later was in the family room with/Drac where they have some big game table (that the Ho bought recently for DSS - -Xmas I guess). Well, the room isn't big enough, so his aunt says, "Well why don't you call Bugs and ask her if she has room for it at her house?"
THAT didn't sit well at all. His reply was, "NO, we don't do that".
He then proceeds with telling her this story as way of explaination (i.e. Blaming Bugs)
It's the story Drac is telling about DSS not wanting to see me the weekend of his birthday. The story is that DSS was MAD at me because of a conversation I had with him (DSS) and I had asked him what he wanted for his birthday. He told me he wanted a game for the game system they have at Drac's house. The story goes that my reply was that if I bought that game, "it would have to stay at my house.". Drac went on how that makes NO sense because I only have DSS 4 days a month, so "that wouldn't be much of a birthday present now would it?" (he's really big on pushing this thing about how I only have him 4 days a month, as if that makes my relationship with DSS somehow 'less')
WTF??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UGH! I am so D@MN mad!
That is so totally NOT what I said! My reply was, "Is there anything else you might want? I want to buy something that you can use over here, too. I don't have that game system here."
DRAC is the one that makes the kids keep the households separate, including the kids personal items, not me. It just infuriates me that this bullshite continues with his totally lying his A$$ off to people about me!! Why have there been weekends where DSS has nothing to wear? Because he's taken all of the clothes *I* bought him over to the HoHouse. Most of the x-mas presents I bought him are at the HoHouse, including the VIDEO GAME I bought for him!!! It is unbelieveable how he continues to not only SPIN this Cr@p out there, but I am sure he TOTALLY believes it all himself!
THIS is why darker is better! It prevents the feeling of being infuriated. It prevents the ALMOST uncontrollable urge to DEFEND myself yet again. I KNOW that it would do no good to bother but D@MN!!
Where's a shovel when I really, really need one??? Oh, I remember, I am sure I had to leave the shovel because that's DRAC's. Can I borrow one????
This time I'm mad enough to not only whack him in the head with it, but I really, really want to proceed to the part where I use the shovel to dig the hole and bury him once and for all!
Ok, WOW! That feels much better! Sorry for the rant, but I just had to get it out.
Time for a nice glass of wine. While drinking it, I'll be cooking up the next Evil Plan for which I can be blamed!
LOL,
You're killing me girl.... I don't have a shovel, but if I did I would hand it over gladly.
It must be the day to get pissed at the WW's. I just blew a gasket VERY GODDESS like, but effective.
I love the fire in your spirit girl. Sure wish I could join you in that glass.
Queenie,
We were posting at the same time!
I don't think you blew a gasket, but I DEFINATELY agree that you were the SUPREME GODDESS today!! Yowza!!
I'm so so so so so so so happy for you!! Pour yourself a nice spring water, raise it up, as I am toasting to YOU tonight!!
We can toast each other.....
you're doing really well Bugsy!
I am grateful that I have absolutely no idea what PWC says about me, thinks about me or whatever. He can blame me. What does it matter? His friends don't care about me, never really have. His family knows the truth, and if they buy his balogney, that's cool. They are free to think as they like. I know who I am, and I know what's what. It's too much to ask me to care.
One thing I've noticed, when/if I do hear anything about PWC, I get a twinge. I really don't want to hear anything about him. Sounds really mean, I suppose, but I don't want to know he's having fun. I prefer to think of him as trapped under something heavy.
My dad told me that he was at a concert with his best friend. it was a concert I was supposed to go to, but I became pretty ill, and didn't feel like attending. God works in mysterious ways, because if I had gone, I probably would have taken up brain space with thoughts of PWC, instead of enjoying the concert.
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE YOUR PERSPECTIVE NOW, SL!!
Seriously, I ENJOY reading YOUR POSTS!!
Mimi,
I can't for the life of me describe it. I've finally made a turn. The darkness is a godsend, in so many ways. I'm a better person for letting go, and recognizing that we all have to make it our own way, in our own time. Some of us have to repeat our mistakes in order to figure out that they are bad for us; some of us NEVER learn from them. That's not my bag.
It is what it is; my choice is to roll with it.
My goal in life isn't to not make mistakes, It's to not make the same mistake twice.
I just noticed Bugs bombed her own thread.
Maybe only people in South Louisiana have this, but at night we have large trucks with tanks on the back that fog the neighborhoods to kill mosquitos, and probably the atmosphere, on account of the bast@rds would carry you off if they weren't controlled.
SOOOO
Everytime I see a mosquito truck I think of BUGS
Isn't that just the sweetest d@mn thing you've ever heard
The other night I was riding my bike up and down the street after DS went to bed and noticed the mosquito truck on the next street so I had to race back to the house and shut the garage before I got bombed and killed in my own driveway
which is probably what's gonna happen after my above comments
Morning, all!
I trust everyone had a nice weekend and a lovely Father's Day.
I'm doing well. Had a busy, but fun weekend w/a lake trip. It was too short, but enjoyed the time I had. Went w/family & friends and visited my older sister. We took a trip over to my nephew's grave, where his stone was set recently. It was very difficult, but I am very glad we were able to go. The stone is beautiful, and very much a tribute to him. It's one of the newer laser cut type stones with inscriptions that fit him to a 'T'.
After that, it was on the water for the day and then round the campfire for the night with lots of stories & great laughs all around. We ended up back on the water again yesterday, and got headed back waaay late. I wasn't too happy about it, as I really was anxious to get back to baby Bugs, having not seen her this week because she was with Drac.
She had a ballgame last Wed, but Drac didn't get her there until an HOUR after the game started,,,,,,,,,,,,which meant that she only got to play 1/2 an inning. UGH! I could have used the shovel! Oh well, that is for HIM to have to deal with in regards to his R with Baby Bugs. Then apparently Friday he got her to summer daycare late and she missed getting to go on their field trip! What a selfish a$$. He doesn't understand that unlike DSS, Baby Bugs remembers each and every one of these disappointments and she DOES see it as HIM letting her down. It will all come home to roost between them someday. I don't say anything,,,,,,,,,,,that's between the 2 of them.
Any who, I had to TM him that I was going to be getting home late and ask that he drop her off later. After an hour, 2 TM, and an email, I sent an SMS Voice Mail. That is the first time I"d used that that service and it was so cool! You can record and send a vm without calling the person!! LOVE that feature. Apparently it worked, as I finally got a reply and he agreed to bring her over later. I don't know if he was ignoring my previous messages or just messing with me. Either way, I still wasn't forced into actually conversing with him on the phone and that makes me happy!
DD and I had a great night together. I can't believe how much I missed her!! I know she missed me just as much!
I don't know what they did for Father's Day,,,,,,,,,I didn't ask and I'm not going to ask. Not my problem. DD did tell me they got ANOTHER dog over the weekend. That now makes 3 dogs at their house. Glad it's not MY house! Drac already threatened to get rid of it as DD and the Ho's son were fighting over it already. ha! Sounds like a fun place to live - - NOT!
SL, I am with you on this - -
I really don't want to hear anything about him. Sounds really mean, I suppose, but I don't want to know he's having fun. I prefer to think of him as trapped under something heavy.
I'm thinking something along the lines of a HUGE BOULDER, or a huge PILE of boulders from an avalanch!! Although I do worry that in all of that darkness, Drac is merely gaining strength in all of that darkness, just waiting to emerge to torture me again someday. But, for the most part, I try not to worry and let him stay under that rock.
Did I post that I finally got to see a pic of the HO? My initial reaction, "She ain't all that". In fact, her basic build and coloring is very much like mine. I won't go as far as to say that we look a like,,,,but it's not too far of a jump to say it. YUCK!!
Oh,, BC!!
Ain't that the sweetest d@mn thing?
Yes, darlin', as a matter of fact, I think it is!
You see, I work for an 'Environmental Services' company - - a.k.a. a trash company. For YEARS I've been know as the "trash lady" or 'garbage girl'. My signature line is "Let's talk trash"!! I talk trash every day and get paid for it!! Plus, I'm really good at it.
So,,,,,,,,,,think of me when seeing those mosquito trucks! I am proud to add that to my 'rep'!! It's cool to be "da bomb",,,,,even if it is a Bug Bomb! ha!!
Although I do worry that in all of that darkness, Drac is merely gaining strength in all of that darkness, just waiting to emerge to torture me again someday.
He may try, but you aren't that person anymore.
YOU ARE A GODDESS and RESPECTED and ADMIRED by so many people on here.
I gotta admit I like your restraint. You use a shovel, for sure it would be a gun for me.
I love hearing about your life with your daughter. These are life memories that you are creating with her that she will never forget and love you all the more for it.
I'm thinking something along the lines of a HUGE BOULDER, or a huge PILE of boulders from an avalanch!!
Exactly! When I think of him this way, it's funny. I giggle. None of what has happened is funny, but the image of him holding a refrigerator on his back is.
I agree with Queenie. You are a different person than you were when all this started. You wouldn't accept treatment such as you were receiving before. YOu have boundaries and knowledge. A double threat girl.
YOU ARE A GODDESS and RESPECTED and ADMIRED by so many people on here.
This bears repeating Bugsy..
You're still my hero by the way
I for one think you're doing a wonderful job, and have every reason to hold your head up high, and be proud of the way you are handling things with BabyBugs and Drac.. You are shining, where most would let things turn ugly.. and fewer still would blame them for it. Yet you shine.. a GODDESS for your GODDESS-in-training
((((Hugs for Bugs and BabyBugs))))
Gee, shucks, guys! Thanks for all of the nice compliments! As I've always said & will continue to say - I'm just doing the best I can and without the grace of God, who knows where I'd be?
I just had to pop in real quick with an interesting fact that just came to my attention.
Seems that the Ho's house that was recently up for sale is no longer listed. I figured it had sold.
NOPE.
It's in FORECLOSURE!!!
That's right. It sure seemed like Drac got into major high gear to find a house asap in Feb. Turns our that the lender filed notice with the court to foreclose in January. Apparently she finagled her way out of a foreclosure last year,,,,,,,,wonder how much that cost him. Guess he figured he'd pour the $$ into his own house rather than continue to finance 2 houses?? No wonder her name isn't on the house - they wouldn't have gotten financed with her in foreclosure.
He's almost run through 1/2 the money he got from selling the boat & other toys - in about 2 months. Figure he's got another 2 or 3 before the rest is all gone.
Then what??
Not like they'll be getting any $$ from the sale of her house.
What a stellar choice he has made.
Just stand back and watch, it's better than HBO
Oh, and if you're ever around him, try not to giggle and point
Ditto what BC said!
Gosh, I wonder where all the anger and frustration that gets put on you ACTUALLY generates.
One of the main reasons that marriages fail is because of money issues. It's no different in an affair, I'm sure.
Keep us updated....it always helps to see an A implode.
Fox
One of the main reasons that marriages fail is because of money issues
Yeah, like money that is being spent on a POS OP, for instance...
Oh, wait, that would still qualify as an AFFAIR causing the failure of a marriage.
I'm with those other two posters (who are they anyway?), sit back and watch the fireworks.
Now Bugs, you know that it will be your fault. How could you!!
***<><>Happy Dance<><>***
First, thanks for the great replies everyone! I had some good laughs, that's for sure.
I am absolutely certain that it IS my fault that the HO didn't or couldn't pay her mortgage. But all is well, as there is Drac to the rescue!
So, to the subject at hand. Drac was 30 minutes late to Baby Bugs game tonight. Luckily she was with me and to the game on time. It was the 4th inning when he pulled in with DSS and THE HO.
I played it well. I totally ignored them. DSS came & saw both me and my mom before and after the game. He sat with them, which is to be expected. Let me tell you, from the little I DID see her, she sure dolled up a lot more for tonight than she did for DSS's birthday party! Which makes sense,,,,,better clothes, hair & makeup to sit beside a dirty, hot ball field. Yeah, that really showed me!! NOT!
I stayed busy helping with coaching duties. I was an on field coach tonight so she got to check me out as much as she wanted. Although most of the time there were parents standing in our sight paths - thank goodness!! I DID look good in my team shirt, shorts, hat and shades. If I do say so myself, for the 8 years younger she is than me, she doesn't really have anything on me in the looks department.
I think I did well. I almost lost it at the end when Baby Bugs called out goodbye to them, including the Ho (by name). I don't know if the "I love you" was to Drac, to them all, or specifically to the HO,,,,,,,but it HURT. Baby Bugs almost caught me in the pained look, but I covered it well.
I wasn't nearly as jittery as I thought I'd be when this finally happened. It bugs me that it bugs me!!
I'm proud I kept my cool. I didn't even make any quiet, snide remarks to my Mom. Of course having my preacher & his wife right next to me helped control that! haha!!
So,,,,,,, the Happy Ho Family it TOTALLY out in public now. He made a point to sit with his arm around her, too. That was the second closest I was to losing it. I am really pretty wound up right now, but am holding it together.
I still have to get dinner for Baby Bugs and get her showered & in bed. THEN, it's a BIG ol' glass of wine for me!!
I hope to be more in tune with what exactly I'm feeling after that!
You know, we almost could be considered SAINTS, with moves like this.
the Happy Ho Family it TOTALLY out in public now. He made a point to sit with his arm around her, too.
How flippin disgusting. I just want to throw up for you.
You are the GODDESS. You did AWESOME.
Take a bow to the rest of us....
Thanks Queenie!
I've never had someone want to throw up for me before! LOL!!
I am trying really hard not to focus on HER or on HIM. I kept my focus on Baby Bugs and the game better than I imagined I would have.
You know, it 'felt' as though they were out to prove something tonight by being there. With them coming late (because he went home to get her), her being dressed, their happy, happy attitudes.
Perhaps not. Perhaps they are all just so truly happy.
But, I realized something or rather it is that I FELT something else for the first time. I didn't FEEL like *I*had to prove anything. I didn't feel the need to act overly happy or care free. I didn't feel the need to worry about my appearance.
AND
It wasn't the planned, built up, I am a TOTAL GODDESS attitude either. It was simply, I am me and that's enough. I have nothing to prove to him. I am happy in my own skin. I am happy (well content) enough in my own life right now. What he 'sees' when he looks at me,,,,,,,,,,or what SHE sees or thinks is not here or there to me. I am pretty sure it will be a topic of discussion between them tonight. That thought hurts me.
To be reminded of what he's told her, what they've talked about in regards to me,,,,,,,OUCH. But I've managed to put that away pretty well up until now and I just have to put it away again. Nothing to be gained by going down that path.
Other than here at MB, I plan not to discuss it much with anyone else. The outside world thinks I shouldn't give a care and that I need to totally accept the HO as being part of life. Well, I'm trying not to care (but I do), and I will admit that as of this moment, I will NEVER accept her as being part of life. She's a HO. I think the whole foreclosure thing actually proves that like any HO, it's really about the $$ as much as anything else. I think that in addition to the $$, her R with Drac is like crack. So, that makes her a Crack HO. At least in my eyes.
I'm trying to keep my eyes focused UP. And let God deal with the rest of it. No matter what I SEE in front of me, it's my job to TRUST and to KNOW that HE is working his plan and it will be one that results in MY best interest. They will get what they deserve.
I just wish that Karma Bus would speed up the schedule!!
Thanks for the support!
LOL
So, that makes her a Crack HO.
Something ELSE we have in common.... LOL
And you are so RIGHT, you aren't alone. Because G-d is there right with you, but there is so MANY of US on here pulling and praying for you just as MUCH as we can.
But having G-d on your side... No BETTER WAY. NONE...
Sounds like quite a show she needed to put on for you.
Look at it 2 ways. She is so insecure and jealous of you that she needed to overdo it for a little kids ballgame. Trust me...she is insecure when it comes to you. You are the esteemed wife, the woman he loved enough to marry. She knows she's just a ho he's shacked up with. She desperately wants the status he gave to you. And she will be insecure until she gets it.
Secondly, ANYTHING (wait, I mean EVERYTHING) he has told her about you is tainted with LIES. Whatever the two of them might have to talk about is based on LIES. By now he is probably having trouble keeping his lies straight.
((((Bugs!))))
Sounds like the head and the heart are having arguments again no?
Looks to me though like your head is in the right place. The harder they try to 'impress' you, the more likely it is that things are unwell with them.
Thing is, who cares how well things are going with them at this point. God's handling that problem, and needs only your prayers for Drac and the kids to know that you care enough to ask Him to move in their lives.
I totally relate to wanting the Karma Bus to get on with the scheduled rounds already, and the sitch with WW's living situation appears to be about to change again due to affordability issues. It's coming.. but God's sometimes painfully patient with us, and ratchets up the pressure slowly hoping to give just enough to get us to turn our eyes back on Him. We just have to be patient too, and faithful.
Glad you can vent here, and we can certainly help with the popcorn and theater seating to watch the predictable pattern of an A relationship imploding on itself.. who knows, maybe my WW's will be the sequel!
Thanks, again, Queenie for the support! Again, it's hard to express just how much it means to have everyone's support here. It's not just the support,,,but also the fact that you all
understandthe feelings! IRL, it's so different. IRL, I know I also have folks who support me & I am oh so thankful for each and every one of them. Yet, they just don't get it the way you all do.
Hey Lexxxy!!
She desperately wants the status he gave to you. And she will be insecure until she gets it.
I know in my heart that you are right about her insecurity. I'm battling the 'fear' of him giving her that status. It's just a matter of time. We can all be sure she's working it hard to get what she wants.
Secondly, ANYTHING (wait, I mean EVERYTHING) he has told her about you is tainted with LIES. Whatever the two of them might have to talk about is based on LIES. By now he is probably having trouble keeping his lies straight.
Good point! This isn't something I'd thought of until you brought it up. I seriously doubt if he realizes that the more she is around, the more they are 'out' and public, the greater the liklihood that some of those lies may come unraveled. I suppose it's only a matter of time for this as well,,,,,,or I HOPE that is the case.
Lord knows it took me long enough to start seeing the lies for what they were. Once I had a clue about them, though, it became more & more obvious. Despite my still wanting to DENY them, it came to the point where I had no choice but to face the 'facts'. He's not a great liar because, as you said, HE started having a hard time keeping all of the lies straight.
Speaking of lies, I am looking forward to straigtening out any 'issues' with DSS this weekend in regards to the supposed situation about the birthday present discussion. I don't intend to put DSS on the mat about anything he said to Drac about it. I Do intend to make it clear to DSS what *I* actually said. I want to be sure he understands the truth vs however Drac twisted things. I don't intend to make a big deal about it. Just a simple statement to clarify is all that is needed.
It's important to me that the kids are clear on where I stand on things, while at the same time, I want to be sure I'm not putting them on the spot, in the middle, or making them feel caught in the middle of anything. That's often a tight rope to walk, but so far, by letting God guide me, it's gone pretty well.
I did make an off handed comment to DD about DSS being mad at me. She said DSS wasn't mad at me, and then asked if I was mad at DSS. I said, "No, of course not. Honey, I wasn't mad, but my feelings were hurt. You understand that there's a difference, right? You don't feel the same things when you have your feelings hurt vs when you are angry, do you?"
She then wanted to know if I was "mad at Daddy". I said, "No, I'm not mad at Daddy. Why do you ask?"
She replied, "Because Daddy asked me if you were mad at DSS and then he asked if you were mad at him because DSS didn't come over. I told him I thought you were a little mad." She then had this look of trepidation over what she had said.
I told her that I could understand why she might have thought that, because when someone is upset, it's hard to know what they are really feeling or thinking inside. I did tell her that it's not her place to tell Daddy about what I think or feel, because it IS so hard to know what another person is feeling. If Daddy wants to know something about me, then he should ask ME.
I find it extremely odd that he even asked about how I felt. Like he gives a sh*t. I'm sure it was just so he could have more ammo for the Blame Bugs Game.
Well, I gotta get in gear and get to work. Have a great day all!
But, I realized something or rather it is that I FELT something else for the first time. I didn't FEEL like *I*had to prove anything. I didn't feel the need to act overly happy or care free. I didn't feel the need to worry about my appearance.
That is so great, Bugs. Comfortable in your own skin. FANTASTIC!
One thing that was said here just a few posts back that finally "clicked" with me. The HO is just the shack-up partner - the relationship with you began honestly - no addiction, no harm to anyone around you, no vindictiveness, etc. He came to you as a whole man. He turned to her "less than". That finally connects with me about Bab's. That helps ease the hurt somewhat.....she is "less than", he turned to her in a "less than" state, and their relationship is "less than".
I've known that all along - but seeing it here again, finally clicked with me.
You did great in your actions at the ballgame. Trying so hard says she feels "less than", trying to compete with you is a losing battle and says much about HER state of mind in regards to where she stands with Drac.
Bugs is irreplaceable, a perfect GODDESS, as only Bugs can be.
I just wish that Karma Bus would speed up the schedule!!
They're building momentum. The longer and steeper the hill is, the harder they will hit at the end.
Have a great day, Bugs!
Fox
Hey Bugs;
I so much admire the grace you have in dealing with Little Bugs.
You handle her so beautifully.
She replied, "Because Daddy asked me if you were mad at DSS and then he asked if you were mad at him because DSS didn't come over. I told him I thought you were a little mad." She then had this look of trepidation over what she had said
Drac would be deleriously happy if he thought you were having trouble managing DSS! Because he is having a crapload of trouble. And he recognizes that he is failing in so many ways (leaving him alone, not monitoring grades, etc.). So Drac would be very happy indeed if he were not the only one failing with DSS.
He's feeling the pressure. He wants (again) to SHARE the blame.
Get square with DSS. And move on from there. I still think you need to simplify your relationship with DSS, so that there is NO interaction with Drac.
Morning, all!
Hey, James - - didn't mean to skip over your post earlier! Yes, I still struggle with the head and the heart not always being in sync. A work in progress, I guess.
You need to give us an update - sounds like a few things are brewing??
Fox - -I totally understand the "click" you refer to in your post. We can read/hear something time & again, but then there's the one time where it goes from hearing to "knowing" within ourselves.
Lexxxy - thanks for the kudos with Baby Bugs. She's a wonderful child that, thankfully, makes parenting such a joy (even in the difficult times). She's so much like me at her age that it's almost like talking to myself at times!
The sitch with DSS has pretty much gotten to the point of no Drac involvement - - mostly due to Drac's choice/refusal to allow me to be involved. He won't 'discuss' DSS or his issues via email so that's pretty much resolved itself.
A friend/co-worker of mine is in the same office with Drac. Apparently he mentioned to her that I was delayed getting back into town Sunday night. I don't know under what circumstances the conversation happened (if he mentioned off handedly or if he was fishing to see if she knew anything about where I'd been)- - I only know that she inquired of another mutual friend, wanting to know if they knew where I was or what I'd been up to for the weekend. The only way she would have known about the delay was from Drac telling her.
Now, I don't think the friend was up to anything malicious, nor do I think that Drac put her up to asking. I just find it interesting that he felt it necessary to mention to her. I have tried not to think of it much, but I will admit that I wonder if that happening on Sunday had anything to do with the Ho appearance on Wed?? The timing is a bit interesting now that I know about the other???
I haven't mentioned anything about the Ho showing up to BabyBugs and I'm not going to mention it either. If I expect her/them to be a non-issue in my life, I need to take the steps necessary to make it so.
Am taking Baby Bugs to the dentist this morning, then working from home for a while before we go pick up DSS for the weekend. It looks like we might have a rainy day today, so maybe we'll go to the movies. She's wanting to see Kung Fu Panda - whooo hoo!
Have a great weekend, everyone!
Bugs:
Another "click" on the Done-o-Meter.
Lexxy is correct in noting that the HO needs to get her status "upgraded" with DRAC. To parapharse Fox: she is "less- than" until DRAC decides to upgrade to someone else. Which is inevitable.
The Baseball game was "showtime". Something that HO has been pushing, probably for quite a while. "Treat ME like a woman you are proud of!" It was one way for her to move up the "less-than" status. Interesting that it took almost 9 months for Drac to actually allow it to happen. More of these circumstances will occur and more triggers will occur until DRAC dumps her. The pressures in thier relationship are HUGE.
1. Marry ME!
2. Financial-the loss of HER house was just a SMALL piece.
3. DSS
4. Her crazy kid. (Since Drac is doing SO WELL with his DSS, he must be a HUGE help with NEW Step-child.)
5. That mortgage crisis that BUGS caused.
6. Even more things.....
Now that "showtime" has happened, be SURE to notice that she will be there EVERY TIME now. But watch as the "dolled up" look starts to slide. By the time babybugs ends her season, it very possible that HO will be there in curlers and sweats.
Bugs, however, will be GODDESS like because she just IS.
The triggers suck. But they will pass. DRAC and HO will NOT attend next years games. So your possible sightings will diminish accordingly.
LG
It seems your daughter is old enough that I'd like to call her LadyBugs.
You are doing so well. I know the triggers. I also know how quickly they pass these days. Thank God for that.
KungFu Panda. KOOL!
DS wants to see that. I've heard it's great. I want to see WallE, the new Pixar joint. It's out next weekend. Lot's of good movies so far this summer.
LG!!! We've missed you!
FWIW, I think your post is SPOT ON!!! You have such a great way of breaking it down.
Kung Fu Panda was a pretty good flick. DD14 wants to see WallE, but that one doesnt' look so good to me.
Maybe I'll go see SITC while DDs are at WallE.
Take care Bugs - you are doing FANTASTIC. Your graciousness under pressure continues to amaze me.
Fox
Ah,,,, from out of the blue we are graced with the wisdom of LousyGolfer!
I, too, have missed you very much, my friend! Thanks for taking the time to stop in with a post! As Fox said, you do have a way of breaking it down that makes so much sense!
I hope all is well with you, Flamingo, and DS! Give us an update on you when you can. I would love it hear some news!!
It will be interesting to see if the "less than" step up continues for the Ho this weekend. The Drac FOO does an annual trip to the family cemetary this weekend. I am giving up 1/2 my weekend with the kids so that they can attend. Will he take the HO to that next level????????? Only time will tell.
I know his family has already discussed it. They will not be outright Rude - they just won't, which I can understand. OTOH, they aren't going to welcome her either. I wonder if Drac is prepared for what he might be receiving. Last year I took the kids and since *I* was going to be there, he REFUSED to go. His family did not think much of that at all.
I doubt there will be any confontations, but I don't know that he'll feel as "special" as he has always felt in the past.
I found out that he is even failing to take care of his Dad. He was supposed to take care of getting his dad a Dr. appt. so that he can renew his high blood pressure meds,,,,,,,,,,,,,and it hasn't happened. Other family members offered to do it, but Dad refused, saying that if Drac wants him to take the meds, he will make the appt???!!??? I will call him (dad( this week and make sure it's taken care of. I won't let Drac's selfishness rob my kids of their grandfather!!
I only found this out because I'd mentioned that Drac has made (via DSS) typical excuses for not taking care of appt for DSS to have some serious warts removed. That he SWORE he was taking care of a month ago.
OY! WTH is the HO doing? Apparently not stepping up to the plate in this dept at all??!!
Can we all say it together - - WELL DUH!
Guess I'd better go track down my children now that it's really dark out.
By the time babybugs ends her season, it very possible that HO will be there in curlers and sweats.
I just almost spit my watermelon out on the keyboard...OMG...
Too funny!! I can see Seeds sticking to Mimi's screen!
To think that a woman would stoop to SWEATS in public is bad enough,,, but add the curlers to it and Mimi would have our heads for that!! :eek:
Definately not Goddess like, Definately not!
Hi Bugs,
I keep up with your thread but don't think I have ever posted to you ...and I have been reading your last few pages.
...and want you to know that I think you are doing JUST GREAT! ...and want to thank you for keeping us updated... it is sooo helpful to see you in ACTION...inspirational, in fact, because you are giving us such a great example to follow.
I have been under the protection of Plan B for quiiite a while... and have chosen to have some contact with WS (with a mediator, so far one session) to be more effective and productive with Plan D, mostly for financial reasons, and I can totally see the similarities between the behaviours of Drac and my WS: ...particularly the 'not wanting to take responsibility' part... and so I see a lot of 'pointing fingers' and 'blaming' in their rhetoric!
Bugs:
It is so great to see you still hanging in there with a hopefulness about you. You are a very stong, confident person and God has blessed you tremendously.
I apologize I haven't been around for support, but had a major car accident in February. Lost the car, house and my job. God does provide no matter what though. Hopefully will get released for work next week.
I don't know if your WS has forced your DD to say "I love you mom" to the HO yet, but be prepared. Mine started doing that and it was more hurtful than the day he walked out on us.
I know you will get thru this. Any good studies or books lately ?
Hey, Luna! Thanks for stopping by and for your kinds words.
I read your thread, as well, and know that this mediation stuff is a difficult time for you. As Mimi says, "Chin up and Chest out", you can handle this, and you really are doing well. Know that there will be triggers during the process, so take care to take care of yourself. Venting here, is among the things that really helps me after facing the horrible WS.
Expect the worst from your WS during this process. Know that it's doubtful he will accept responsibility for his own actions. He (and/or his attorney) will do all they can to twist and turn the facts to point the finger of 'blame' at you. Just keep holding up that reflective mirror and let all of that bounce right back onto him. He will fuss & fight - just keep on your path and do not allow him to disturb your peace any more than necessary.
{{{Luna}}}
Hi INeed! {{{Hugs to you and DD.}}}
I am sorry to hear of your accident and am glad it sounds like thing are turning the corner for you.
Drac hasn't yet had LadyBugs call the Ho 'Mom', but I think she does say "I love you" to her. And it tore up my heart. I don't think he will press her to call the HO 'mom', but one never knows.
Recently studying in the Book of James at Sunday school, which is a blessing. I haven't done much other reading these days, as life has just been too busy. When I do read, it's been just non-brain-taxing fiction for fun.
Thanks for stopping in - hope things continue on the upswing for you!
I was able to have a private conversation with DSS Friday night. Ladybugs slept over at the neighbors, which gave us time alone. It is as I suspected, Drac totally made up everything he told his aunt. DSS remembered and repeated EXACTLY what I'd said about the bday present, and he wasn't mad at me. Drac had him twisted around in his head/heart about the bday weekend, which is what lead to his not coming over.
When I brought it up, his first question was "Why? What did Ladybugs say?"
I let him know it wasn't about anything she said. At the end of the conversation, though, I did point out that 'other' people hear things, then gets repeated, and what they say isn't always what really happened. He immediately knew I was talking about Drac, even though I didn't mention anyone by name. His comment was "well, I'm sure Dad just misunderstood.". To which I replied, "What *I* care about is that YOU and I understand between US."
I explained the feelings of hurt that I had about not getting to see him. I could tell he felt bad about it, and he even said how sorry he was. I explained that I wasn't looking for an apology or to make him feel bad, but only that it is important to me that the 2 of us are OK, and that he knows how I feel - - and the most important part of that is that I love him very much.
It wasn't a long conversation and I dropped it when I was sure things were good between us. We enjoyed watching tv together the rest of the evening. Can you believe he watched (and enjoyed) sitting with me through The King and I? One of my all time favorite movies.
Yesterday Sis and BIL came to help me return some furniture. BIL and DSS loaded it all on the truck themselves. I can't believe how big & strong he's gotten! After the return, we all had lunch together, then in the pool for a few hours. Kids spent the rest of the afternoon/evening playing outside with the neighbors and had a great time. Then, all too soon, it was time to take them to Drac's. That's always a let down for me, but especially this time, as it was a full day early and I won't have Ladybugs back until next Sunday.
DSS called me shortly after I dropped them off. He forgot something he needs at my house and wanted me to go get it and bring it back over. I told him I wasn't going home, but that I'd leave it on the porch for them to pick up in the morning. He thought I meant Drac's porch! I said, NO, you all can go by my house in the a.m.
I think that is the least Drac can do, considering I've given up my time with them. While it's not far, I really didn't want to burn the extra gas necessary for that extra trip. Perhaps that's petty of me, but I think I can live with myself! Having Drac go a bit out of his way for the kids is good for him.
Well, the sun is finally coming up. It was a beautiful pink and purple sunrise! I think I'll get some yard work done. I'd love to fire up the mower, but I like my neighbors too much to do that so early! Guess I'll just pull weeds until after church!
Well, it appears that the Ho didn't make it to the next level of Movin' On Up yesterday.
I saw Drac's car pull out of my drive after they picked up DSS's meds, and DSS was in the front seat, so it doesn't appear that the Ho went to the Drac Family event yesterday. Interesting.
I had a good day, but didn't accomplish all that I had wanted to get done because of rain in the morning. So, I actually took a nap! That's soooo not me - especially when I have things I should have been doing. In the past, I would have let myself feel really guilty about not getting my work done - Now, I allow myself those days and I don't feel too bad about it. (just a little).
I was a bit pi$$ed when Drac didn't have the kids call last night. I know it's not realistic to think that because I'd given up MY time with the kids, that he would do something as simple as having them call me - - but it would have been nice.
NOTE TO SELF - Remember not to have ANY expectations of the ExWS!! If anything, expect the worst!!
Ladybugs was not a happy camper when we spoke,,,,,,,,,,DSS and the HOs son were being mean to her. Now, what exactly that meant, I didn't get a chance to find out. She wasn't given any privacy where we could talk. I know from just hearing her side of the conversation that someone was there influencing her. I actually heard her yell at the boys to get out of her room, as she was trying to talk to me. Apparently they (or someone else) was still close enough because she said she 'didn't feel like talking' all of a sudden.
I told her that it's ok, that I understand there are sometimes she can't talk to me the way we want. She even said something about calling me later. I told her she can pick up the phone and call me ANY time, day or night. She then asked, "What if Daddy grounds me from the phone?" I told her he'd never do that, but if he ever did, I'd take are of it. I told her that she knows she can call Daddy anytime she wants to, and that I'd never say no if she asked to call him and that He wouldn't say no if she wanted to call me.
I told her in the future, she & I would come up with our own secret code word that she could use to let me know that she can't talk right then. I tried to make it out like a fun game. I don't want her feeling caught in the middle, despite what is obviously happening on that end.
I talked to DSS for just a second. He said she was fine, but just grouchy about everything, "for no reason". I asked if he could just cut her some slack? He started in again that there was no reason for her to be crabby. So, I asked, "aren't there times when you feel out of sorts, but you can't explain why?". He said yes. So, I said, "And when you feel that way, don't you just want everyone to cut you some slack?". Of course he said yes. I then just asked him to cut her some slack for the night.
I'm sure she was over tired. They probably went to bed late, I know they got up early, and it was a busy day. It bothers me greatly that she doesn't always have the privacy to really talk to me - - but not much I can do about that other than to send the kid cell phone with her and hope that she can keep it charged and not lose it. We'll be giving that a try.
I find it interesting that neither of the kids said ONE single word about the Drac Family Event. Normally, when LadyBugs gets to see them, she tells me all about it. Not a peep. My 'guess' is that either Drac had grilled them enough about not telling me anything or perhaps it didn't go so well. OR it could be that it was just a total 'non' event in their minds that it was already forgotten. Doesn't mean anything either way. I'm sure I'll hear about it all eventually. Heck, for all I know, maybe they stopped by and picked up the HO on their way and she's moved right on up to Fiance Position.
I did mess up on Friday - - I forgot to tell Drac (or rather remind him) that she had a dentist appt and had 3 fillings. After the appt, I figured I'd scan the paperwork and email it to him. We got busy and I forgot. I'll do that first thing this morning.
Well, I'd better get to the real world. Lots to do and LadyBugs has a ball game tonight. Hope it's a Ho-free night, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
So you have it written into the parenting plan that you have to keep Drac informed of what's going on. What happens if you don't?
You are such a pilar of strength for me you know. I love how you talk about what's going on and in many ways work through the feelings and look at your behavior so you can change it or not. That is nice insight to have.
What is your week looking like?
Hey Queenie,
So you have it written into the parenting plan that you have to keep Drac informed of what's going on. What happens if you don't?
When it comes to 'healthcare', we are supposed to be in agreement. I didn't feel it necessary to 'ask' his permission to take her to have filling done (actually it was on the checkup information I sent him a few weeks ago).
I choose to share this information, in a timely fashion, as it just seems reasonable. I don't do it for HIM - I do it because it is the 'right' thing to do. I don't know what would happen if I didn't keep him informed - - I guess he'd have to take some action (legally) if it ever came to that. It's simply never occured to me.
This place, this forum, is a God-send for me when it comes to working through things. I've always been a person who likes to write about how I feel, and it's so great to do it here where I can get input about it. I do a much, much better job of LOOKING at MY behaviors than ever before. Many people here have helped me so much with that!
I used to be much more of a person who would only look at others and expect THEM to change. That's one of the big mistakes I made in my marriage. We both did that and it became a vicious circle that never ended - - until I found MB and started focusing on changing ME and my behavior first. Unfortunately, Drac never believed in those changes and he refused to change himself.
So, I hope that I am continuing in the way of self examination and change for the better. Sometimes I am on the mark and sometimes not. The important thing to me is that I keep trying. I'm glad it may be helpful to you!
This week is busy, as usual. LadyBugs has softball tonight. I need to finish mowing the backyard, trim bushes, trim trees, weed eat the edges of the yard/drive/landscaping, vacum the pool, get my bedroom back into being a bedroom, work every day, finish putting away laundry, clean the fish tank, get a duplicate title for my car, prepare for 2 customer meetings, make arrangements for my dog overnight, travel out of town, finish plans for vacation with the kids, and whatever else life will throw at me this week.
So, typical week!! :):)
Bugs:
I've been around. Just been busy... (your week sounds like mine, and I DO have Flamingo...)
It always nice to have those folks that showed up around the same time, those so-called "killer bees" post an update about thier sitch.
When Chrisner, SDguy, Lilsis (where is SHE?), Silent, BC and Rin are dropping updates, its worth the reading, if not the posting time, if I have nothing really to add.
One question, has ladybug's grandfather taken a turn for the worst? He was mowing the lawn, helping you move, watching the kids and all kinds of stuff last year. How about now? I ask because I don't understand why it's the rest of the families responsibility to get him his RX's? Just wonderin...
You sound good. Maybe you will get more info from the kids about the weekend "family" event, when you have time to relax with them. If you really want to know....
Otherwise, I going to read a couple of other threads, and get back to work. Coffee break over...
LG
PS, I shot a 96 yesterday!
TJ
LG you b@astard! I shot 100 yesterday
I joined the course by the house though, I'll be shootin low 90's in no time
Bugs,
You are handling the kids perfectly. There's a fine line and a few dozen eggshells to walk over when trying to keep the keeps out of the middle.
You are making it look easy. Your Plan A was legendary. Now your thread is an inspiration for people learning to deal with kids living in a wayward environment.
but then again, you get paid to do trash management
but then again, you get paid to do trash management
LOL, well put!
LG,
Glad to know you are around - even if you don't have time to post very often. I'm with you, in that I love to read the updates from the Killer Bees. Everyone really is doing so well!
I do wish, though, that we'd get an update from Sis. I know I went through a time that it wasn't beneficial for me to be on the forum for a while. I think that's where she is right now,,,,,,,,,along with just getting out there and living life. I imagine nothing but good things are going on with her.
Ladybug's Grandpa is fine - it's just that we now live 1 1/2 hours away from him since we moved. And now Drac lives that far from him, as well. The reason for family getting his Rx is that he can't read. Yes, it is 2008. Yes, the man holds a full time, good job, and no, he can't read.
It's amazing to me, too. Long story short, he comes from a very large rural area family. He quit school to get a job and never went back. Drac's mom took care of things when they were married, but then when Drac was a teenager, she left his dad for another man,,,,,,,,,AND she left him a LETTER. Drac had to read it to his Dad.
So, since then, it's been Drac that's helped his Dad with all of this kind of stuff. Don't feel too badly for Drac, though, because his dad's taken care of many things for Drac through the years as well. It's my opinion that Drac has taken advantage of his Dad, too, since the whole A began, by making financial arrangements to Drac's favor, which has also taken advantage of his Dad. JMHO.
Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,I am sure I'll eventually hear about the family event. I have remained interested in his family and their well being - I still care for them all a great deal. In fact, his closest cousins are all coming over to my house for a pool party next month. I'm sure I'll hear plenty that day!
ha!
BC,
100?? With all of the golf you've been playing, I really expected you to be out of those triple digits by now!!
If I might make a suggestion - - try putting down the beer when you pick up the club, , those t-shots go further when you use 2 hands!
Thanks for the compliments! I am honored. We all KNOW that none of this is easy for any of us, but certain things have gotten easier. Although I'm sick of the saying "It is what it is",,,,, that attitude has helped me a lot.
As has been said before, I don't have to LIKE the sitch, but I DO have to find a way to deal with it in a way that doesn't make me insane.
but then again, you get paid to do trash management
To quote Pep - - EGG-ZACT-LEE! Although, I will tell you that there are times where the STENCH of the garbage can be unbearable. It's those times that I just try to climb my way to the top of the trash heap and pray for a cool breeze to come my way with some fresh air. Usually, that air comes in the form of great friends here at MB!!
Bugs:
is that he can't read. Yes, it is 2008.
Yes, it is. And the number of people that can't read is amazing. I'm sorry to hear this. That puts a whole new spin on the relationship.
LG
PS, I wasn't sure if BC was discussing putt-putt or real golf...LOL.
BTW, Bugsy, shouldn't you be driving the drink cart at the company golf outing soon? That would get BC to golf more!
LG
LG,
It is amazing. In my business, though, I've found it is not really unusual (unfortunately). He's an amazing guy, who just happens to not know how to read. If he'd ever expressed an interest, I'd have tutored him myself, but at his age, it's not suprising he has no interest (or more likely he's too proud & embarassed). It was tough with getting the kids to understand when they were very young. Now they just know that THEY read to Grandpa. It's rather sweet to watch.
Putt putt or 'real' golf,,,,,,,,,with some of the guys I've seen play, it's hard to tell which is which!
BTW, Bugsy, shouldn't you be driving the drink cart at the company golf outing soon? That would get BC to golf more
Yes, that's coming up very soon! I can actually envision BC out there with all my 'trashy' friends. He'd fit in quite nicely. And, he'd get the dubious honor of meeting Drac, too!
It may be interesting to see how it goes this year. As you may recall, last year Drac took off quite early and didn't stick around for dinner/drinks. We'll see how hard the Ho yanks the chain this year.
Another interesting thing is that a former co-worker of Drac & the Ho's is now employed with me & Drac. She should be there, too. Wonder if she'll be playing spy for the Ho OR will she be making her own moves??? Oh, this could be a whole lotta fun! Maybe I'll get one of my out of town co-workers to come. I know a really big former football player that would fit the bill quite nicely.
Oh, there I go with those evil thoughts again. I'm just wasting time until Ladybugs softball game tonight.
Drac's attorney has until July 7th to file whatever he's going to file with the court of appeals over the $$ he thinks he should get. Lord knows he needs it pretty bad. I figure at the rate he's spending, he'll be at ground zero by August, and totally in the red by a couple of thousand each month after that, unless something changes in a big way.
I'm sure, though, that the fact they can't afford the lifestyle to which they have become accustom will be all my fault. Especially when he doesn't win in court! They would never acknowledge that even with that $$, it would only buy them another 6 months or so at the rate they are going now.
I can't wait to see Ladybugs and make sure she's ok. Guess I'll change clothes and go walk the dog.
Allright LG, matched your 97 today!
I'll try to beat it this weekend
and yes, I'd do just fine at the "trashy tournement"
just gotta try to avoid stuffing DRAC in a dumpster
I've also always wanted to ride on the back of a garbage truck, maybe I could hook that up
Allright LG, matched your 97 today!
You 'da man, BC!
and yes, I'd do just fine at the "trashy tournement
I have no doubt about that!!
just gotta try to avoid stuffing DRAC in a dumpster
Now that's something I'd love to see! It's something I've thought about doing many, many times myself!!
I've also always wanted to ride on the back of a garbage truck, maybe I could hook that up
That could be arranged! Although that request is usually one that we hear from 6-9 year olds! ha! We do take our trucks to schools, Boy Scout meetings, etc, and give kids the chance to explore and ride in the trucks. It's always so much fun.
Surprise, Surprise, Drac showed up to LadyBugs game late. Atleast this time she only missed the first 1/2 inning. She ran straight to me and didn't want to get off my lap. Drac & DSS walked behind where I was sitting,,,,,I turned and made a point to call out "Hello" to DSS. He came over after getting his chair situated right next to LadyBugs dugout. No HO this time.
Our seating arrangement was such that I 'could' get a look at Drac from time to time without it being obvious. However, I found I didn't really want to look. At one point Drac got up and went to his car (he actually brought a cooler of drinks this time). My mom was watching him and I told her "Don't look. Don't let him think we are the least bit interested". She replied that it's hard not to.
I did notice there wasn't any cheering & clapping by Drac - - just a couple of times for LadyBugs. He did make a point to stand up to watch her bat each time. She did GREAT this game. She was 2 for 3 at the plate - her best ever! She did some outstanding base running,,,,,,,,and I caught Drac looking over at me after one particularly great play. I could almost hear him wanting to say, "Isn't our daughter GREAT?". I'm sorry those aren't moments that we can share.
Drac's Aunt called me right when I got to the game, so she didn't talk long. She made the excuse that she needed my address for another family member who wants to invite me to a party in September,,,,,,,,,,but I know they already have my address. I think she wanted to give me the low down on the family event, but it wasn't a good time to chat.
After the game LadyBugs came over and got in my lap. She was hugging, hugging, hugging,,,,, kissing, kissing, kissing me and telling me how very much she wanted to stay with me - that she didn't want to leave me. She knows (as we have discussed it many times) that if she want a change in the schedule, it's going to have to be her asking Drac. I simply said, "Baby, that's up to you." In fact, over the weekend when she found out she'd miss Sunday with me, she said, "Well, that's not fair to
ME." OMG! That is exactly the words Drac uses when he's manipulating the kids!!
So,,,,,,,,,she actually went over and told Drac that she wanted to stay with me. I wasn't watching or looking when she did it - I kept busy gathering up my stuff. She ran back over and said that he wanted me to take her to the daycare he's arranged for her by his house, and I said, "we can do that". So, she ran back and told him a quick goodbye. DSS came over and said goodbye to me. I didn't look at Drac as he went by nor did I acknowledge him at all the entire time.
LadyBugs and I went to Dairy Queen after the game - met up with some other girls and their parents and we all sat together. It was late when we got home, but we enjoyed the evening Very Much! I'm really glad she asked & that he agreed. She doesn't want to go to daycare, but I have to go into my office and get a lot done today as I am out of town the next 2 days.
It continues to amaze me the changes in myself with each of these encounters. I really did not care about his presence. It wasn't an Effort not to look his way this time. Although I will admit to noticing that he looks a bit slimmer - and has a lot more gray hair. I have less and less that feeling in the pit of my stomach; less and less the twinges in my heart. He's become such the stranger to me by his actions/words,,,,,,,,and even when I see him now he LOOKS more like a stranger to me.
Does that make sense? When I see him, I've thought to myself "If you had never known him, would you be looking at him with 'interest'". Maybe. But I DO know him and I DO know what he's done to me. I am not interested in THAT man at all.
We walked the dog when we got home & LadyBugs took a spill off her scooter. Scraped her elbow & knee, but in the dark, it didn't look bad, so we kept walking. We stopped to talk to some neighbors and then noticed a little blood, so we didn't stay long. It occured to me when we were walking back that I am SO Blessed. I had a great time chatting with the other parents at Dairy Queen,,,and then I have great neighbors who I've gotten to know better & better. I have a really good life & I feel so blessed. I just thought, "Wow,,,look around Bugs - you have built a new life and it's a good one. It's just going to keep getting better."
Well, I'm going to let LadyBugs sleep in a bit, but I do need to get some work done first. Hope everyone has an outstanding day today!
Good morning,
I love hearing about how your day goes. Look at you, how you are building a life, a life that is happy, wholesome, full of morals and values that are teaching ladybugs the way to model in the world.
"Isn't our daughter GREAT?". I'm sorry those aren't moments that we can share.
This is one of the sadness things that happens. I can only hope for their sake when they realize one day they caused this they aren't destroyed by the fact that you don't share these moments.
It occured to me when we were walking back that I am SO Blessed. I had a great time chatting with the other parents at Dairy Queen,,,and then I have great neighbors who I've gotten to know better & better. I have a really good life & I feel so blessed. I just thought, "Wow,,,look around Bugs - you have built a new life and it's a good one. It's just going to keep getting better."
This is when we really begint to heal when we can look around and see all our blessings which didn't stop because our moranic WH's chose stupidity instead of G-ds world.
It takes us a long time, but one day if we work hard enough for it, we come out the winner, don't we.
{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}
You have one blessed day yourself GODDESS.
What a great evening for you, Bugs! You reminded me that it would be a good idea for me to recognize my blessings today, to actuall sit and CONSIDER them.
With court coming tomorrow, I am a bit concerned with what I will LOSE - what will be TAKEN from me.
Thank you for reminding me that there are things that cannot be TAKEN from me and nothing that happens tomorrow will take those blessings from me (aside from time with DDs) and those blessings are priceless and are no comparison to money and possessions.
Although I will admit to noticing that he looks a bit slimmer - and has a lot more gray hair.
I've noticed this in myself, too. I've wondered if it is because now we SEE them physically - and not so much just the person we love, where we see personality and character more than we see the physicallity.
I, too, have noticed WH graying hair and thinness.
He appears SMALLER to me. I don't really believe he has shrunk, but even DD14 noticed it (without me saying a word). He does seem to slump a bit.
Maybe he is just not as BIG in our eyes as he used to be.
"Isn't our daughter GREAT?". I'm sorry those aren't moments that we can share.
Ah, Bugs. THIS is something that always makes my heart ache. WH and I have shared these moments at sporting events, too. It's almost accidental. Such an ingrained reponse when you child does something to make you proud, to look at the person who helped you create that amazing little being. The waywards do it, too, because they can't help it either. That is one look the HO will not get to share.
Fox
BC:
/TJ/
You da man! 97! The next course we play I have averaged a 104 on, so I will let you know how it goes.... If you ever get up MD way, we can swing a club a couple of times.
I could ride the back of the garbage truck as well... Sometime around 4am in the morning on April 13th makes it look REAL GOOD...!
/TJ over/
Bugs:
You sound really, really good.
I could have NEVER attended one of my DS15 sporting/Theatrical events without serious sadness of NOT BEING able to share his success with Flamingo.
Flamingo could have held her head high, I, however, would have always been in the back row....
BC said something about stuffing Drac into a dumpster. SDGuy always talked about the wood chipper. I think the WC is little more effective. However. Drac is already in the dumpster. He just doesn't realize it yet. The walls he sees are not streaked with the daily refuse of the last two years, as they should be, they are streaked with whatever DRAC wishes to see. Unfortunately for Drac, the daily refuse is becoming more and more visable every day.
As for your LadyBugs Grandpa (that sounds much better than ExFIL), Flamingo's Library has reading programs for adults. Yes, 60 years ago it was appropriate to drop out and get a job. Pride is the only thing keeping somebody from learning how to read now. Grandpa can and does have a good life. BUT IT could be better. And with alot less effort than he thinks. Drac may be stuck with the genetic material of NOT being able to admit a mistake and correcting it.
OTOH, how cruel and evil could his first wife have been to run off with other man, and leave him a LETTER that someone else had to read to him. Unbelievable.
As Mimi says: "Head high and chest out!"
LG
Hey all!
Queenie,,, you are just the sweetest thing! It always surprises me that the boring details of my life are interesting to you!
Fox, about this -
That is one look the HO will not get to share.
Thank you. I never, ever, thought of it that way. You are right. (well, until Drac gets a reversal & they have a baby,,,,which I expect to happen as the pressure increases). But no matter what, they will never have anything like Miss Ladybugs!:)
LG,
I oh, so love the Golf talk!
Sure,,,, you 'think' that garbage truck job sounds good right before tax time - - but I'd wager your back, your arms, and your hands wouldn't think so much of it! LOL!
Then there is the wonderful summer aroma! UMMMM UMMMM! The smell of compost cooking is something you never forget! I'm the rare one that gets a good nasty wiff, and says "Yea, baby! Smells like money to me!" ha!
I could have NEVER attended one of my DS15 sporting/Theatrical events without serious sadness of NOT BEING able to share his success with Flamingo.
Flamingo could have held her head high, I, however, would have always been in the back row....
I'm so happy for all 3 of you that you never had to endure this. The truth is, Drac is pretty much 'back row', in that I'm usually in with all of the other parents, laughing and talking. He's off by himself. Tonight I missed practice because I was busy getting ready for an out of town trip. I was suprised to find the he DID take her. Unfortunately, I'll miss Thurs. night, too, as I'm still gone. All told, though, I will only have to miss 1 actual game all season. Traffic court! YUCK!
It is 'pride' for the most part that keeps Ladybugs grandpa from learning,,,,,,,,,,,but it's also lack of confidence.
Drac may be stuck with the genetic material of NOT being able to admit a mistake and correcting it.
You hit the nail on the head here,,,,,,,but I'd also add the 'lack of confidence' in the mix for this, too. He covers it well, but I believe he has issues with confidence. A lot due to his Mom's actions,,,,,,,,,,he still feels 'not good enough' - something he blames me for.
OTOH, how cruel and evil could his first wife have been to run off with other man, and leave him a LETTER that someone else had to read to him. Unbelievable.
Yep,,,,,,,,,,,,and Drac hated her so much for it. Now he's constantly seeking her 'approval'. This is the woman who said if she ever sees me again, she's going to smack my face! Poor thing buys into everyting Drac tells her and BOTH of them have to make themselves feel better by lying about me so they don't face what they've done. Drac still fails to face the fact that he has become his mother in his actions. His entire family talks about it often.
Well, that's all stuff for Drac to deal with over in HoLand.
Bugs reality is filled with light, love, and blessings from above.
I am good these days. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing 'right' so I can keep on doing it & keep on feeling so good!
I am good these days. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm doing 'right' so I can keep on doing it & keep on feeling so good!
Oh hey.. I got this one!
You're doing it all right Bugs. You're being the marvelous, wonderful, woman, mom, friend, and servant of God that you can be.
We can only do our best, and let God handle the rest. You, my dear friend are reaping the rewards.
Let's keep the good feelings going!
((((Bugs & BabyBugs))))
Wow, lots of activity on the Bugs thread. Glad to hear that you're doing so well, Bugs. And handling things well.
I was crushed for you when I read about the Ho coming to the soccer game. I haven't had to face that yet. At least the SCQ respects that I am and always will be their father.
"Isn't our daughter GREAT?". I'm sorry those aren't moments that we can share.
Yeah, this is another heart-breaker, too. You want to talk about this stuff. Re-live it and share it, and the ONLY person who can really do that is the other parent. It sucks, but it is what it is.
And forget about riding on the back of the truck. I want to
drive the truck. One of the ones with the big robotic arm on the side that reaches out and grabs the trash can and lifts it up and bangs the trash into the truck--is that the kind your drivers use? Do you suppose you could grab a WS with that big arm?
Just think about it. Outside, driving a big piece of machinery, bringing joy to everyone. Little kids coming out to wave (they love the trash truck). For a long time, DD5 referred to them as "my friend the garbage truck." My fear is that (aside from the likely pay discrepancy between waste management driver and R&D scientist) they would make me start with the yard waste truck, for which there is no mechanical arm. With all the sore shoulders and arms. Less appealing.
Maybe I could just buy a used garbage truck as a hobby. Do you suppose they sell them on ebay? Would I run afoul of organized crime? Bugs, are you part of the Mob? Can you have people whacked?
Bugs, are you part of the Mob? Can you have people whacked?
Hmm.. for some reason this screams ulterior motive..
hence.. I'm kinda interested in the answer here as well
Bugs - thinking about your daughter's antics at the bball game wanting to stay with you, hugging/kissing you. That was, I believe, her signal to her father that she DOESN'T like OW and implied pressure that she's getting from Drac and OW to accept OW as your replacement.
She was stamping her loyalty all over your face!
Bugs, are you part of the Mob? Can you have people whacked?
When my customers ask me this question, I simply reply, "Well, I'm not saying I am
connected but, do ya really want me to send Vito out here?? If ya don't want to meet Vito, I suggest strongly that you sign that contract"
Ya know, those pesky FEDS came in a few years ago and really busted up my 'connections'. Yet, I DO still have 'disposal' capabilities,,,,,,
She was stamping her loyalty all over your face!
Kayla!! Thank you for that Visual!! My heart soared when I first read this.
Yet, it also sank after a few minutes. Just because I HATE that Ladybugs is in such a position. To quote her, "That's not fair" to her. Yet, it is what it is. I hope that the 'pressure' you speak of isn't too hard on her. I worry greatly about that. I worry about everything I do and say - - as I don't want to contribute to that feeling of pressure in any way.
I KNOW that she acts very accepting of the HO when she is with them. This breaks my heart, but I do & say nothing. The other day she was asking about "what rain forest animal would you want to be", and she was making a list of everyone's answers. She wrote down, Mommy, DSS, Daddy, and then she asked me how to spell the Ho's name. It almost brought me to my knees,,,,,,,,,,so I simply said "I don't know.". So she asked DSS when he walked into the room. DSS's jaw dropped to the floor and I know that he was looking at me - - I just kept on doing what I was doing and pretended not to hear any of it.
Hard, hard, hard. But it is what it is. I can only control myself.
I returned from the trip to Razorback country Thursday night. Yesterday am, was up early knocking out work stuff when the phone rang. Normally Mom calls me or I call her around that time. She was to be taking Grandma (who is 97) shopping yesterday and we were going to meet for lunch.
It was my DAD. He was letting me know that he was taking Mom to the ER. On Monday, she'd fallen when she was helping him hook up a trailer. She fell right on her breastbone onto a steel trailer hitch. I knew it had been really hurting her, but she refused to go to the dr, saying it was getting better. Well, I KNEW better than to believe her, but she was still fighting it.
Seems yesterday am, she couldn't move. She couldn't breath. She couldn't even stand to have anyone touch her.
Long story short,,,,I went to the ER. I had a really nice FIGHT with the ER doctor who wanted to start the tests before her pain was under control (he even accused her of not being cooperative!) UGH!!
Finally got the pain calmed down. CT scan. She has fractured her sternum. Nothing they can do for it but pain meds and muscle relaxers.
All of the pain meds made her sick,,,,,,,,,,so now she's throwing up while suffering the incredible pain of a fractured sternum!
Let's now add on top of this wonderful scenario that the CT scan also revealed a 1 1/4 inch spot on her lower left lung. They gave her a TB test yesterday which they need to read tomorrow at the hospital. That means a car ride back there, which I doubt she will be able to manage. I told her that we're going to take a digital picture of her arm and take that to the hospital!
She sees her regular dr on Monday afternoon to discuss what steps come next.
To say we are worried,,,,,,,,understatement. I AM trusting in God on this.
While I do NOT for a moment believe He made her fall, I do believe He didn't send His angels to catch her because He knew that she needed to have this CT scan. We needed to find that spot on her lung and there was no other way we would have known about it- - at least not for a very long time.
So, it is such that we have found out about it. He has a plan, too, for how it is going to be dealt with. We just have to trust in His plan. MOM most certainly does. She told me so last night.
I gotta run,,,,,,,,,,,,,so much to get done today to catch up and then need to get to Mom's.
Oh - - did I mention that today is Mom's Birthday???
All prayers are welcome and appreciated!!
You and your mom are being prayed for.
Oh, my, Bugsy, that is worrisome. I am praying for your family.
About Ladybugs (I'm so glad you call her that). One thing you CAN do for her. Tell her you love her no matter WHAT. Maybe more importantly, tell her that you KNOW she loves you.
Repeat when necessary.
Off to mow. Much love.
Praying for you and your family, Bugs.
Hey Bugs,
I am praying for your mom as well. Isn't it a miracle where we can look at the bigger picture in life and understand how we alow our good parts to see what G-d is telling us and learn to act accordingly.
The way you are with LadyBugs, is awesome. When she grows up, she is going to fully get how gracious and incredible you were in how you handled this.
You are a model for me in how to not put your own pain, desires and hurt before your child. When the urge to bash the OW or do something that isn't as kosher with WH strikes me, I am going to picture you lady GODDESS and as myself how would Bugs handle this.
Thank you for the lessons of grace and dignity.
You and all of yours are certainly in my prayers, you special Lady.
If we keep our eyes open, we can actually SEE the MIRACLES when they are happening. All part of GOD'S PLAN...not for us to ask WHY...we have to PROCEED..which you are sooo GREAT at doing...
Thank you ALL for your thoughts and prayers!
Good news is that Mom is feeling soooo much better! Thankfully we have the fracture pain under control. She's going to see her doctor tomorrow and we hope to have some idea what the "plan" will be moving forward. I want to know in more detail what they see on the CT scan in regards to the spot, and then what further tests, etc.
She is in very good spirits. She's trusting God, as we all are. We have great faith in that this was found at this time because of Him. He will be in full control of this entire situation. Keeping our eyes on Him FIRST.
I will be honest, though, I did have a few slips when reading that the 3 out of 5 of all people diagnosed with lung cancer die within one year. I can't deal with the idea of being without her. She is my very best friend. It is from her that I have learned what it means to see someone act with dignity, strength, love, and grace.
So, rather than go there, I smacked myself and reminded myself of all of the above. We don't know yet WHAT is going on and as Mom says all of the time, "We will cross that bridge IF and WHEN we come to it." And so we shall.
I got all of my outside work done yesterday and then went to the grocery store. Went to Moms and cooked. I made a big pan of mostaccoli, prepared a roast w/carrots, onions, and potatoes that Dad could put in the oven this morning, cooked some ham for him to make sandwiches, and made some potato salad. That should get them through a few days, at least!
Baby Bugs left me a vm a little before 5pm, which I didn't know I'd gotten until I left Mom's (cell service there is spotty). She left another message that I missed just before 7pm (I was walking Beau). The agreed upon time to call is 8pm. Seems that Drac took them to his mother's yesterday and they were spending the night. Nice of him to let me know that in advance.
I returned the call and his mother (who wants to smack me in the face) answered. I said hello, may I speak with my children please? I kept my tone very nice. She was flustered, as if she didnt know who I was (honestly, she is rather dingy and may not have known yet it was me). So, I told her, "XMIL, this is Bugs. May I speak with my children please?"
She replied that they were 'walking around here somewhere". I asked 'well, where is Here?". She said they were at a carnival. I replied that I did not know that they were going to a carnival nor did I know that they were going to be with her. She answered defensively with "Well, I don't get to see them very often."
I WANTED to say, "well then talk to your SON about that".
Instead, I said, "Well, I'm sure that they are having a fantastic time. I think it's just GREAT. Please have them call me when you find them". She said she would and I hung up.
Ok, I am hoping that God will forgive me for that lie,,,,,,,,, I don't think it's great that they are with her at all. Nothing I can do about it, so I just hope & pray for the best when it happens. They did call me right back and I spoke with both kids.
I had thought Ladybugs told me they were going to see Grandpa. Well, turns out they DID go see him on Friday night. Drac, Ladybugs and DSS went to Grandpas and spent the night. Drac then drove them down to his mom's on Sat. It didn't sound like the Ho was with them?????? I find it hard to believe they would be apart for a night????
Whatever. A small part of me wants to jump on that tid bit of intel - - but the Goddess in me is holding up the big red STOP sign. It means nothing right now. While it 'may' be a small crack in Happy HoLand, cracks are irrelevant to my life.
Well, I need to get caught up on work before Ladybugs gets home. I missed filing several trash reports on Friday - urgent stuff ya know??! ha! ha!
Again, thanks for the support and prayers. I'll update tomorrow when we know more (well I HOPE we know more!)
Just time for a quick post, but apparently the HO has abandonded HOHouse already!
OH MY...LOL....
Let the DARKNESS prevail...
Keep your focus, Bugsy. Don't let the madness mess with your peace.
That's what makes this MESS so bad for the little ones..just when Little Ladybugs was trying to figure it all out...
Thankfully she has a MOTHER that will ALWAYS be there for her...
I will be honest, though, I did have a few slips when reading that the 3 out of 5 of all people diagnosed with lung cancer die within one year.
Bugs:
What kind of lung cancer are they talking about? Have they obtained a tissue sample?
What is it they told you they saw on the CT scan?
LM, MD
LM,
We
don't know yet if it IS cancer, and we still have hope that it is not.
All we know at this point is that a spot/mass (they did not know which it is supposedly) is in her lower left lung. It is 2.8cm in size. They did a skin TB test, but yesterday said it has to be re-done as they could not read the results from the first one.
She goes to her g.p. this afternoon. I know that the statistic I read is for all lung cancers and includes all stages, so I'm trying not to really think about it. Until we really know what we are dealing with, there's no point making guesses about anything.
Thanks so much for asking,,,,,,,,I'll provide whatever info we get this afternoon later today.
Well, regarding the demise of Happy HoHouse - - I think I've done pretty well. Ladybugs mentioned that they had been shopping for a tv over the weekend, but didn't find one. I was taken aback, as I KNOW that Drac had bought tvs when he moved. She said, "Well, the Ho took the one downstairs and in their room".
Took them where, I asked? "To her new house. They broke up."
I said, "Oh. Hey Ladybugs, we gotta take the garbage out because tomorrow is trash day. Can you help with the recycling?"
That was the ONLY discussion we had. I asked NO questions. I was VERY PROUD of myself about that.
I called no one to tell them and I don't intend to call anyone nor will I bring it up or discuss it or ask any questions. I KNOW it's going to be Hard not to do that, but I am determined. I've left it in God's hands and it's going to Stay there. I will wait for Him to tell me IF/WHEN I need to DO anything.
Drac is still Drac unless he proves otherwise. He will be going through withdrawl from her for some time yet to come. Nothing really has changed in regards to how I need to do my Plan B. Except, I AM a bit more hopeful that the man I love may appear someday now that she is gone. However, at this time, the Best that I am hoping for is that we can eventually come to a decent co-parenting situation with the HO completely out of the picture.
Time will tell. Mimi, I know exactly what you are talking about. Look at what the kids have gone through. I am praying, praying that he stop and look at his kids. I pray so hard that he NOT bring another woman into their lives. If he wants a revolving door on his bedroom, well that's HIS choice - but he needs to keep them away from the kids.
I DO wonder who cheated on who to cause this breakup. OR if it was that he is out of $$. Or if it is just the natural destruction of an affair. I have a feeling the details will come out someday. They are not important to me right now, and may never be. It's been a mere 6 month strech this go around for them. I knew it would happen, but I was a bit surprised it came so soon.
Of course I am HOPING that this helps him hit rock bottom. I pray he sees what he has done; what he has become; and that he take steps to fix himself and to then attempt to repair the damage path he's made this last year and a half.
However, I am not counting on it. I am not waitiing for it. I am not going to be paralyzed by it all. I will not be drawn into the ensuing drama of it all.
In regards to it all, I will be quiet as a church mouse. I will keep on keeping on with my life. That is what is best for me and for my kids.
It won't be easy,,,,,,,,,but so far it's not as hard as I thought. I didn't post last night because I laid down with Ladybugs and fell asleep. I think that's a good indicator of my ability right now to keep with my plan??!!
Still,,,,,,,,,I will admit to doing a bit of a Happy Dance when I was out of Ladybugs sight! ha!
First of all just want to say I'll be keeping you and your family in prayer for sure. Both of my Aunts have been going through a rough patch so I certainly understand how dealing with that on top of everything can be.
Despite it all though you're shining like a Goddess in the distance. While I can honestly say I don't know how much strength it'd take not to want to go and pick up WW once her situation blows up, the head agrees with everyone else that darkness must prevail.
Yer simply amazing Bugsy!
I think that the breakup is great news and hope that it holds.
However, I am not counting on it. I am not waitiing for it. I am not going to be paralyzed by it all. I will not be drawn into the ensuing drama of it all.
In regards to it all, I will be quiet as a church mouse. I will keep on keeping on with my life. That is what is best for me and for my kids.
But this is what you need to do. You already know that.
Hoping for good news for your mom. . . .
(((Bugsy)))
Bugsy, the HoHouse implosion is great news! You are so right, though, stay out of the drama. Drac has to learn his OWN lessons and it's best if you aren't a part of them. He must take responsibility and if you are around, it is way to easy to blame you. Drac has much healing of his own to do.
Sorry to hear about the concern with your mom. Look into and ask the doctor about a PET scan.
Prayers going up for you and yours.
Fox
Wow. That was quick.
It must be pretty extreme if she went so far as moving and taking things.
What a mess he's made of everything. Yuck.
Thank God BabyBugs and DSS have you.
Praying for your mom!
Bugs, I pray that everything turns out WELL for your mom. I think NOT knowing is the scariest part.
As for DRAC and the Ho... I say hallelujah!
But get ready... guess who's going to come callin'...
Bugsy:
Whatever they find with your Mother, I hope it is either benign or caught early in the procees, so that it can be dealt with. Theres some fighting to be done, and it seems that Mom is a fighter.
Ladybugs is "dancing her loyalty" to you because you are the only one in her life still displaying it to her. Keep up the good values that you keep showing her with your actions.
Exits at HOhouse? Just more drama.
Until Drac is sitting in the dark, without Ladybugs, possibly without even DSS, as he has "gone his own way in search of HIS happiness" will he realize that the one he is running from, is him.
Bleesing to all you touch!
LG
PM:
if this happens:
But get ready... guess who's going to come callin'
Should she answer?
I don't really think so. My opinion? Why sign up for all that?
This is Drac's second marriage, that he has ended. Finds a HO not even four years into the 2nd marriage.
He hasn't seemed to have learned anything yet.
So, I wouldn't answer the call.
Not for a VERY long time.
LG
I would think he's in VICTIM mode at the moment. He gave up everything for her and she left just when they were getting set up like they wanted. So, I don't think the call will come right away. I'm sure he doesn't want anybody to know, unless he's sooooo selfish that he wants people to feel sorry for him after this gross injustice.
all I have to say is
but I agree, it won't be long before he reaches out to see if there's a crack in the door.
BE PREPARED!!
LG,
Oh no, no, no, she should NOT answer. I was just pointing out that fact because DRAC is notorious for leaning on Bugs for every little thing, especially when it comes to kiddos. I'd say he had a very long (if not impossible) way to go before Bugs ever graced him with an friendly audience.
Not for awhile. He's still addicted to the Ho.
It won't come as a knock on the door. Because he is wayyyy too proud for that.
It will come in the form of escalation. More calls from kids to her on weekends (because he thinks that makes HIM look good to Bugs) more involvement in DSS (because he knows thats what Bugs wants) more emails about nonsense. Just more contact. More and more and more. Testing.
I don't think Drac is the sort of wayward to admit his wrongdoings until he feels safe with Bugs again. He'll try to work his way back in without admitting his faults. He'll try to come back without remorse.
Not for awhile. He's still addicted to the Ho.
It won't come as a knock on the door. Because he is wayyyy too proud for that.
It will come in the form of escalation. More calls from kids to her on weekends (because he thinks that makes HIM look good to Bugs) more involvement in DSS (because he knows thats what Bugs wants) more emails about nonsense. Just more contact. More and more and more. Testing.
I don't think Drac is the sort of wayward to admit his wrongdoings until he feels safe with Bugs again. He'll try to work his way back in without admitting his faults. He'll try to come back without remorse.
I think you're right.
Originally Posted By Lexxxy:
Not for awhile. He's still addicted to the Ho.
It won't come as a knock on the door. Because he is wayyyy too proud for that.
It will come in the form of escalation. More calls from kids to her on weekends (because he thinks that makes HIM look good to Bugs) more involvement in DSS (because he knows thats what Bugs wants) more emails about nonsense. Just more contact. More and more and more. Testing.
I don't think Drac is the sort of wayward to admit his wrongdoings until he feels safe with Bugs again. He'll try to work his way back in without admitting his faults. He'll try to come back without remorse.
I think you're right.
Yup, I agree. This is what I faced more times than once. That last time PWC actually SAID all the right things, even started to DO them. I wouldn't even crack the door for Drac, Bugsy. Not even to get a peek.
I wonder if he and Ho-dee-ho-ho won't be boomeranging in their relationship for some time now, anyway. One week ON, one week OFF.
Bugsy:
This one might get Chrisner to post....
Picketts Charge at Gettysburg was the "High Point" of the Confederacy.
I think that "Ladybug's Ballgame" of last week was Ho's High point.
The Battles will continue in a dewindling manner until it over. Unfortunately, many will still be hurt in the aftermath, notwithstanding the many beforehand.
LG
The dynamics of all of this are really interesting--from being all dolled up at the soccer game to moved out and broken up so quickly. What's up with that? How did it all play out?
The behavior of infidels can be sort of fascinating in a train-wreck sort of way
BUT it is a threat to your sanity, Bugs. A threat to your peace.
How tight is your plan B? It's gotten a bit leaky over time, hasn't it? You may want to take steps to tighten it up given that Drac might be testing you again soon.
Your restraint is a testament to why you are President.
Look at you girl. Look at your composure to let the chips fall where G-d is working. You can only be blessed by such things.
I'm so praying for your happiness and blessings.
Wow!! I miss out on a day of posts and look what happens! 2 pages for me to catch up on tonight!
Thank you ALL! Each and every one of you had something special to contribute and I soooo appreciate it.
First, I have to tell you that when I told Mom about everyone's care, concern, and prayers, she almost cried. And she, like me, is not a crier!
Nothing much from her dr appt other than they are scheduling a needle biopsy. The usual assurances from her gp - it
could be nothing, but it
could be something. They won't know until the test is completed. It could be a couple of weeks.
Ok, now to the Drac situation. I have read everyone's posts and see so much truth in it all. I held off allowing myself to go into the speculation, but today the floodgates opened. (ironic as I live in the Midwest and we have such flooding going on right now)
Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,Aren't we all forgetting some important 'facts'?
#1. The breakup of the marriage had NOTHING to do with the HO
so why would THEIR breakup change anything?
#2. I am to BLAME for everything that went wrong with the marriage.
#3. I am to BLAME for everything that has gone wrong in Happy HOLand.
So, why in the world would we even be talking about any attempt by Drac to increase contact, let alone attempt any type of relationship??
Ladybugs told me tonight that she is getting a new dog at Dad's house. They JUST got a new dog there 2 weeks ago. I said as much to her. She said that the HO took both dogs and the cat, so she is getting a new dog. I made a non-commentary comment about it and said, well I don't get it. She said, "remember, they broke up?". I said I didn't understand.
She replied, "The BOYS were fighting all of the time".
I SWEAR on everything that is precious to me, that if Drac in ANY way lays this at DSS's feet, I will destroy him. While I am sure the kids were constantly at odds, it is NOT the fault of any of them that THEY did not stay together.
Now, he has probably spun it in some way that he (Drac) was doing what was best for DSS (yep, there is that victim role), bottom line is that he and the HO are SUPPOSED to be the adults here. Even if it IS about the kids, you DON"T tell them it is in ANY way about them. UGH!!
Ok, so I will take into account that it is Ladybugs interpretation of things, but
somethingmade her say it that way.
I seriously do not think he will be back around at all. Lexxy is totally on the mark that he will NOT be admitting to anything as his fault. I really believe he is done with me for good.
I seriously do not think he will be back around at all. Lexxy is totally on the mark that he will NOT be admitting to anything as his fault. I really believe he is done with me for good.
Are you sure our WH's are not one and the same?
Seriously, Bugs, we have NO IDEA how any of this is really going to end up. Only G-d does. Remember that mahogany chest of love for him. Well if it's still there, G-d is still working.
Though life goes on..
Now for your mom. I am remaining quiet through this because I really don't know much about medicine. I know alot about prayer and you are both in there.
My mom had lung cancer and I can promise you I will be here right along side you if you need anything. But it's probably nothing and she just gets a bit of a scare to remind you all how much you love each other.
Thanks, Queenie!
Mom is scheduled to have a needle biopsy next Wednesday. After that, it may take up to a week before we know anything.
When I talked to her today, she sounded GREAT. Her comment, "God is taking care of me. He will take care of me no matter what comes along. It's His will. He is in control and I trust Him."
Praise God - she is one amazing woman!!
Drac has called DD EARLY each of the last 2 nights. That hasn't happened in months,,, unless he was calling early because of a date with the HO where he would not be available when she would normally call him. For some reason they had to use DSS's phone last night, so he had DSS on the phone first, just in case *I* answered, we wouldn't have to speak to one another.
I've done well in keeping quiet. No comments to anyone outside of Mom and 1 friend who never speaks to or sees Drac. I am still, frankly, in shock that she's out of there.
I would not be surprise to see the boomerang of back & forth with them for a while. Until I hear some info on the circumstances,,,,,,,,,,,and we all know it's just a matter of time before I do,,,,,,,,,,,I am assuming it's still "game on" with them.
It's going to take time for him to get thru the 'withdrawl'. By then, who knows what he'll do or have done. My prayers are that he work within himself and come to some realizations & make changes for his own good. I'm hopeful. That's all.
I am just trying not to 'THINK' about it much. Too much speculation. To much wasted energy.
I'm at a good place and I don't want to give any of that up to him in any way, shape, or form.
So,,,,for the 12th I have schedule the
First Annual Girls Drinking Frozen Drinks with Little Umbrellas by the Pool Party!
It's the perfect date (Drac's bday). Have lots of girlfriends coming over and we are going to make every frozen concoction we can think of!
Gotta run! Ladybugs needs bath & bedtime.
Thanks, Queenie!
Mom is scheduled to have a needle biopsy next Wednesday. After that, it may take up to a week before we know anything.
Bugs:
Pulmonary (lung) nodules are very common and we see them all of the time in benign conditions. That nodule could be an old fungal infection that has healed over (very common). Was your mother a smoker? This is a key issue in dealing with probabilities.
My advice would be to NOT take on the burden of a dire diagnosis of cancer untill you have it. I was mistaken in your first post in that I thought she had a diagnosis. In my experience, the large majority of lung nodules that I have seen on a Computed Tomography scan (CT) have been found to be non-malignant. If the needle biopsy proves this, all she will need is serial CT scans every 6 months for the next 2 years to clear her.
Even if it is cancer, there are emerging therapies and clinical trials that are providing longer survival periods for even the most of malignant tumors. Breath easy, have faith, and expect the best. You can search the internet all day and ask questions, but that wont give you the diagnosis.....don't take on the fear of cancer untill we know it is cancer....we can then deal with that issue when and if it comes up....and I mean "we".
Lemonman, MD
Lem M.D. wrote:
don't take on the fear of cancer untill we know it is cancer....we can then deal with that issue when and if it comes up....and I mean "we".
Such good advice. Wonderful to have you back, Doc.
Lemonman
Was your mother a smoker? This is a key issue in dealing with probabilities.
Yes, she IS a smoker & has been for about 50 years (she is now 68)
My advice would be to NOT take on the burden of a dire diagnosis of cancer untill you have it.
PERFECT advice and advice that I have already taken to heart.
You can search the internet all day and ask questions, but that wont give you the diagnosis
In Pep speak EGG-ZACT-LEE! There is the 'good' and the 'bad' of all Information Highway, isn't there? Lots of information out there, but it means nothing if it is not applicable to the REAL facts, right?!
....we can then deal with that issue when and if it comes up....and I mean "we".
Now, darn it,,, you went and made me cry!
That is so so so sweet of you! You have no idea how much that touches me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Thankfully, Mom has the BEST of attitudes. While I know her well enough to know that she has thought about the possibilities, her attitude is very positive and very much in trusting God in the entire situation.
As you say, there are options out there - - no matter what the results say we are dealing with. Let's find out WHAT we are dealing with First. THEN, we can go from there.
Thanks so much, again! Here's my most Giant cyber HUG ever to you!
{{{{{Lemonman}}}}}
Well since I just HAD to log off my work computer to check out the party on Fox's thread, I figured I'd go ahead with a quick post here.
Mom's doing ok. Still having some pain from the fracture, but much better than a week ago!
I called DSS yesterday afternoon to talk to him about the coming weekend. While we just started talking, Drac called him. I told him to answer Drac's call and call me back. He never did.
My sister ran into Drac & DSS a bit later at the grocery store. It was 'friendly'. Drac was doing HIS lake trip shopping and even told Sis where he was going. Not the usual lake where we used to go because of it still being quite flooded. Sis said something about how she & her H had 'moved up' from tents to a nice camper. Drac said he'd gone the opposite way from cabins to tents. He mentioned that he'd sold the boat. A bit more chatting.
She said something about her purchases for the lake & he asked if she had enough since she was feeding DSS. She said yes, and that he ought to kick in on her bill! Good job SIS! She said it joking, but you'd THINK he should get the message. I'm sure, though, that it didn't get through to him at all.
So, this a.m. got an email from him. It said that DSS did not know and wasn't able to tell him what MY plans were for the weekend. He said he was leaving today at X time, and did I have any idea what time I was picking up DSS.
He then went on to say that he could not scan the paper, but he wanted to share with me DSS's summer school grades. He listed them, including comments from the teacher, and some positive comments.
I just replied with the time I expect to get DSS and said 'thanks for the grades info'. Short and sweet. No change from the Dark Side for me. Less is More.
I've had a few 'dreams' the past few nights and not slept the greatest. I call them "Drama Dreams". Involving Drac and the HO. Nothing worth going into here. Yet, it does remind me that I have thoughts/feelings about the supposed break up of HappyHoHouse and that there remains some 'hope' inside of me, even if I am not verbalizing it.
Am going to get my hair cut, pick up DSS, do our final lake trip shopping, and come home to pack! Can't wait to hit the lake.
The 4th of July is my sister's "Annual Over Indulgence". Last 2 years she has been the source of entertainment for one night. She rarely drinks and never to excess - - so this new 'annual' event is something I don't wanna miss. I've not seen it the last 2 years, so am hoping she doesn't disappoint!
If I don't get a chance to post later, have a Fun Safe 4th of July everyone!!
You too Bugs, have a happy and safe 4th. I hope the weather is awesome for you.
And may it be awesome for all of us.
It sounds like everyone had a nice 4th of July.
Lots of good fireworks for Fox's now EX!
Lots of golf for BC.
Excellent example of personal recovery from SL.
Owning up to her own 'stuff' for Queenie.
Typical mayhem & foolishness from Chris and the entire crew! Pig snot, James?? Really??? EEEWWW! That's really worse than the mental image of the Speedos!! haha!
We had a nice 4th. Sun, Fun, Friends, Lake, Tubing, Fireworks, Food, Drink - - it's all good.
Yet, Sunday I ended up in a 'funk' after dropping off the kids. Ladybugs didn't want to go to his place, but wanted to stay with me. I was supportive, but firm in that it is her time to be with him and that he really loves her/wants to spend time with her.
Didn't accomplish much at work all day yesterday, and then went to LadyBugs ball game. They were already there. Drac & DSS together. I had no choice but to walk by them, so I stopped and hugged DSS. As always, didn't even look at Drac. DSS sat by me for most of the game because Drac had picked up his dog from the vet on their way to the game & he needed to take him home. Poor doggie has heart worms and he caught kennel cough from the HappyHoHouse dog they brought home a few weeks ago (that is now gone with the Ho.
After the game Ladybugs wanted to come home with me. I told her the same thing as I had Sunday night, but she went and asked Drac. He said no. She came running back over to me in tears. She really cried hard and I felt just awful. I assured her as best I could, being positive how she'd be fine & would have fun w/Daddy. While I was doing this he came and stood just behind me watching and listening and then they left.
The funk continued to the point of tears last night. I made the mistake of watching the movie - Always. Richard Dryfus (sp?) and Holly Hunter. Romance & sadness. I cried and cried.
Today, have MADE myself work. It has helped.
Then, email from Drac.
"Ladybugs and I talked last night about her wanting to go home with you after the game and getting upset, I explained to her that we just got back together and I wanted to spend time with her as well and that if it was a Wednesday or Thursday game it would have been less of a problem. I have a feeling she will be asking again on Wednesday after the game.
I also wanted you to know about her field trip Friday w/ the Y to the Arch. Parents are allowed to go, there is no way I can get out of work right now, not sure if you would be interested or able."
My reply was -
I told her the same.
I am not available Friday.
thx
My reply is in keeping dark as possible. Status quo. Although a part of me wanted to give a 'normal' reply with full sentences and discussion.
Why did he even send the email in the first place?
In the course of work today, I came across emails from 2007 to a close friend who helped me a lot during this whole ordeal. I read some of the things that went on and revisited the things that Drac said. This one stuck out today.
Our friends have told me that I’m just going to have to be a JERK about this to get you to understand that this is OVER. I don't want to be a JERK. You are just REFUSING to accept that this is OVER.
He's right. I have refused to accept that this is over. I don't think even NOW, this Very moment that I accept it. Even reading about how when we were still being intimate and he in so many words said it was just s*x to him. I didn't get it even then.
To this day, I continue to revolve too much around him and the hope that he will magically SEE what a mistake he made. I feel like such a fool. Why do I care at all?
I am not a wilting flower, who has no self confidence or who doubts my own worth. It's not that I don't know that I am worthy of having someone really love me with all of their heart & soul. I know that I DO deserve that.
Why do I still want that 'someone' who loves me to be Him?
I'll own up to you all here that a part of me wants to 'try' to 'meet needs' to see if it makes a difference. Don't worry, I haven't done anything and don't plan to do anything. Right now it's just a nagging little thought,,,,,,,,,
I think I'll go clean something,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's my usual response to being upset.
Honestly, this all sounds like a reaction to witnessing your LadyBugs' sorrow. I'm sure you do love the man that you thought your WH was, but I'm pretty close to sure that you do not love his current incarnation.
I am not a wilting flower, who has no self confidence or who doubts my own worth. It's not that I don't know that I am worthy of having someone really love me with all of their heart & soul. I know that I DO deserve that.
Why do I still want that 'someone' who loves me to be Him?
I'll own up to you all here that a part of me wants to 'try' to 'meet needs' to see if it makes a difference. Don't worry, I haven't done anything and don't plan to do anything. Right now it's just a nagging little thought,,,,,,,,,
As for the first item in bold, I think the same thing about myself.
As for the second thing in bold, I think the same thing about myself.
As to the last thing, this is just you wanting to DO SOMETHING about all this pain. I say focus your energy elsewhere, like removing bellybutton lint.
Truth is, I DON'T want PWC to love me, I want the man I love, the one I have in my heart. He's dead and gond as far as I'm concerned. I want the love of a dead man? I think I'll stick to the living.
This is part of why Plan B stinks, because you DO hold on to bits of love that you have for your spouse, so THAT love drags on. I'm hoping, eventually, that it will not be the same longing. Again, I long for something that is nonexistent, like a FANTASY. I was given a chance to meet the needs of the ZOMBIE, and instead of loving me back, he chewed me up and spat me out.
Since you are such a choice catch, let the SOB come to you, not the other way around. He needs to be begging to MEET YOUR NEEDS, otherwise, it's a losing proposition. WS's that return home and don't do the do, wreak havoc instead of healing. I'd rather be alone. I can deal with the heartache of the loss of my fantasy; I cannot deal one more day with the assinine antics of PWC. He's a horses patoot.
You are not admitting to anything that the rest of us don't feel, Bugsy.
This will pass. Stay dark. JMHO. Take what you like, leave the rest.
Bugs:
This line:
Why did he even send the email in the first place?
Is Ho Gone?
Drac is starting to toss YOU the bone, see if HE can reel YOU back in.
Six weeks ago, the email would have said:
BUGS:
Please DON'T interfere with Ladybugs visitation time with ME. Your efforts to "comfort" her are unacceptable and only upset her more!
SHE was FINE with me.
YOU know the judges ruling states that I have her, blah de Blah...
Drac
It certainly didn't take him long to try to worm back in.
You response was the correct one.
Let me know how the golf tournament goes. Maybe BC can make it...
LG
Morning!
Well, I DID do some cleaning last night, which helped occupy my thoughts for a while and helped exhaust me to sleep a bit better. Still feeling a bit draggy, but a bit better, too.
SL,
I say focus your energy elsewhere, like removing bellybutton lint.
HA!! I know you are right,,,,,,,,,,,
Truth is, I DON'T want PWC to love me, I want the man I love, the one I have in my heart. He's dead and gone as far as I'm concerned. I want the love of a dead man? I think I'll stick to the living.
Yep, DRAC isn't the man for me either. I guess I just haven't 'accepted' that the man I love is dead.
This is part of why Plan B stinks, because you DO hold on to bits of love that you have for your spouse, so THAT love drags on. I'm hoping, eventually, that it will not be the same longing.
I could not have said it better. I think the past couple of days it has hit me how LONG this has been dragging on. Don't get me wrong - I have had great days. I have experienced great change and I think I have grown a great deal. Yet the feelings for him do drag on.
It's like driving my boat with an anchor still attached. It's not firmly anchored in a loving relationship, but it's still attached to my boat. So, while I am able to move about the water, it's not a totally FREE and EASY ride.
Again, I long for something that is nonexistent, like a FANTASY. I was given a chance to meet the needs of the ZOMBIE, and instead of loving me back, he chewed me up and spat me out.
I know how this has so effected you - yet you have acknowledged it, deal with it, and are moving on with such strength and grace. You continue to help others by sharing your experience, even through your own pain. I so appreciate your sharing to help remind ME of what I would be dealing with.
Since you are such a choice catch, let the SOB come to you, not the other way around. He needs to be begging to MEET YOUR NEEDS, otherwise, it's a losing proposition. WS's that return home and don't do the do, wreak havoc instead of healing. I'd rather be alone
I know you are right. And it is about the wanting to DO something feeling that has returned.
I guess the departure of the Ho has effected me more than I'd really like to acknowledge. While I have worked hard to have no expectations of Drac, the hope remains that with her departure, the man I loved would reappear.
That's part of the reason why I read some old emails - to remind myself of the cold, callus person Drac really is and has been for some time. Was it the A or was it his being done with me before the A? He has always said he was done before. I haven't wanted to believe that. Yet, it could very well be the case.
Either way, what continues to eat at me is that I KNOW that we could have re-built a BETTER marriage if he had given us the chance. It just sticks with me that he once said, "If it wasn't for the HO, then yes, I think we'd be getting back together."
I doubt he remembers that comment, but I haven't been able to forget it. In spite of every other hurtful thing he said & did, I held on to the comment as one of the few honest things he ever said.
Wish he'd never said it.
Hey LG!
Drac is starting to toss YOU the bone, see if HE can reel YOU back in.
I guess you are right - - Lord knows he certainly could have written the example you pose below when HappyHoHouse was still in tact. I have a some just as cold that he did send. In fact, I read one yesterday that actually said, "contact your attorney".
The sad part is, a large part of me WOULD like to be reeled back in. But, like SL said, not by DRAC. I
can see the difference and can withstand the temptation of lunging at that gerbil!
Well, let me clarify that I can see it but it often takes the assistance of my MB friends to have it in real focus!
Thanks guys..
I gotta jump in the shower and get to work,,,,,,,,,,,I HOPE I am able to focus better today!
LG,
As I type, Mom is having her needle biopsy. Hope to have an update in a short while,,,,,,,,,,,
Thanks for asking.
Bugs,
...thank you for putting words into how many of us here FEEL... it helps...A LOT!
Bugs,
...thank you for putting words into how many of us here FEEL... it helps...A LOT!
That is absolutely one of the truest statements.
And I too thank you Bugs,
My prayers are with you and your mom. Keep us posted.
He's right. I have refused to accept that this is over. I don't think even NOW, this Very moment that I accept it. Even reading about how when we were still being intimate and he in so many words said it was just s*x to him. I didn't get it even then.
To this day, I continue to revolve too much around him and the hope that he will magically SEE what a mistake he made. I feel like such a fool. Why do I care at all?
I am not a wilting flower, who has no self confidence or who doubts my own worth. It's not that I don't know that I am worthy of having someone really love me with all of their heart & soul. I know that I DO deserve that.
Why do I still want that 'someone' who loves me to be Him?
I'll own up to you all here that a part of me wants to 'try' to 'meet needs' to see if it makes a difference. Don't worry, I haven't done anything and don't plan to do anything. Right now it's just a nagging little thought,,,,,,,,,
I think I'll go clean something,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's my usual response to being upset.
This sounds extremely familiar, Bugs (except for the cleaning part). Sorry I didn't catch it sooner, but I've been in a mini-funk of my own, and sometimes I don't feel like coming around during those times.
For me, it's all the usual suspects. The overwhelming sense that something is missing. The sense of loss, which is quickly followed by the sense of what a waste it is, and the knowledge that it doesn't have to be this way, and that this way is wrong.
We still have hope, whether we want it or not. I don't know why. Because we're stubborn? Foolish? Loyal? Because we want what's best for our small children?
Your plan B is doing what it's supposed to do. I think you should keep it up.
Thanks everyone!
It's nice to know I'm not out here in my funk all alone! I hate that any of us have to deal with these funky funks, but at least I know that I'm not totally abnormal.
Then, of course, leave it to Fox to come along with a swift kick in the A$$!
Thanks, girl!
Well, first the good news. Mom's biopsy went well. They were very good with her, made sure she was quite comfortable during the procedure. The dr. told her that he is not positive, but it "looks" like this is most likely an inclusion. Which means it's just 'junk' left over from a previous illness, such as pneaumonia (sp?).
THAT is VERY good news! We're still a tiny bit anxious to have it confirmed, but we are keeping the positive attitude with this bit of good news to back it up!
So, I will have you know that I haven't been just totally sitting around in my own 'funkiness'. (and no, I don't mean
funkiness as in smelling bad - - or for those 'older' folks like Chris, I don't mean
funkiness as in the 70's! )
I've gotten some good work done. My whole house is 'almost' clean. And, I'm 3/4 of the way prepared for the weekend. I don't think I told you all yet,,,,,,,,,,but on Saturday I'm having the
First Annual
Girls Lounging by the Pool
Drinking Frozen Cocktails
with
Pretty Umbrellas
PartyYep, the blender is ready and the bar is stocked. We're going to mix up every concoction we can think of and while away the afternoon/evening.
If it is 1/2 as successful as I hope, it will most certainly be an annual event. I didn't realize until yesterday that it is also Drac's bday on Saturday. So, this is my gift to him. I'm throwing myself a party.
I have to go out of town the next 2 days for work, so I've tried to get most everything ready in advance. Still have a bit yet to do, but these are my girls, so I'm not really stressed about any of it. It doesn't have to be 'perfect'.
Only item of note on the Drac front - - Ladybugs was to have a softball game tonight, but it rained heavily yesterday. I called the rain out line & found out mid afternoon it was canceled.
My phone rang about 10 min. prior to gametime. I thought it was Ladybugs, so I answered with Hi Baby Girl! It was DSS. He asked if I knew if the game was canceled because they were there and no one was there. I replied, "well, if no one is there, then I'd say the game is canceled."
I could hear Drac in the background, and DSS says, "Well do you KNOW for SURE if it is canceled?". Before I could reply, he said nevermind, someone there told them it was canceled. I wasn't going to go down the road of taking blame for not letting Drac know that it was canceled. He has the same information as I do on how to contact the league to find out information (remember the insistance & fit throwing he did over all of that?)
I talked to Ladybugs, and she still wanted to come stay with me. However, as I knew the game was canceled, I'd stayed at work and wasn't home, so it wasn't an option. She called again the 'usual' time, but for the first time in a long time, they called from DSS's phone. Who knows what THAT is all about? Anyway, she didn't have much to say. They'd just gotten home from going out to 'get some stuff' and she wasn't very talkative. I'm sure she's fine.
Guess I'd better get my suitcase packed for in the morning.
Thanks again, everyone for being here for me!
(((hugs))) for the good mom news. We'll all just keep our fingers crossed and our prayers going!
The shingdig sounds like a blast! Make it fun!
I read everything, but I'm quite a bit tipsy after spending an evening with a good girlfriend a stone's throw away from home, so I'll leave real replies (hiccup) until tomorrow. Suffice it to say the frozen drinks make me smile. I've backspaced more on this one paragraph than most I've made on this forum. I blame the Chardonnay. (disclaimer, my son is with his dad tonight)
Lord how I wish PWC was not such a self serving ARSEHOLE!! We had it made in the shade; a nice house, a fantastic kid, cool dogs
; what I thought was a good, salvageable relationship. I guess someone else will benefit from my growth and a great family.
What a maroon! (rolleye would really just complete this post)
much love, Bugsy
Bugs, that is fabulous about your mom. I am so happy for you and your family. I'll keep the prayers going on this one.
Your party this weekend sounds like a blast. Can't wait to hear all about it.
The weather out in the PNW has been nothing short of spectacular. We pay for it all year long, but when it's magnificent, oh man... It's beyond heaven.
Sleep well woman and have a good two days at work.
Great news about your mom. All things work for good thru God. He has a plan we just need to trust him and obey.
Great news about Mom Bugsy, I'll be keeping you guys in the prayer list for sure, but I'm sure the Dr's initial reaction is a relief.
Also, fantastic news about the party this weekend, I'm very glad to see you doing something special for yourself. YOU DESERVE IT!
As for Drac.. water off a duck's back Bugsy.. you're handling it well. It's ok to be in a funk on occasion about this. It's a pointless, stupid, terrible thing he's done to you and your family. I too pray that one day he realizes the mistake he's made, but it seems pretty clear to me that your boundaries are reasonable and firmly in place. He's got a long row to hoe, and it's not really your concern until he gets into the barn and starts working the dirt.
You're a super star around here Bugsy, and an inspiration to the rest of us facing life after reaching the D-Line. Keep your head up, chest out, and be proud girl.. you're an amazing woman!
((((Bugs))))
OOOOH! That party sounds like fun!
So glad to hear some good news about your mom. Those things are scary.
Drac schmack. As SL would say, he's a maroon. He'll either figure it out in regards to LadyBugs or he won't. She knows where her true stability lies. If Drac could do it, it would be icing on the cake. If he can't/won't do it, she still gets the cake from you.
Fox
Just curious Bugsy-girl.
Do you have any interest in winning him back? I think a jump into Plan A would lure him back awfully quick.
I think Drac is that type of wayward that needs to keep his pride intact. I think he would respond to you as long as he didn't have to crawl back. As long as he could just explain a reconciliation as you just working things out.
How important is it to you that HE be the one to ask?
I think eventually he would feel remorse and make amends....just not until he was safely back with you. He won't risk it. He won't put himself out there. He'd accept your hand if YOU extend it.
I agree with Lexxxy. It wouldn't surprise me if you went to Plan A and he jumped all over it. LITERALLY.
I remember your Plan A.
I bet Drac does too.
BUT........
How important is it to you that HE be the one to ask?
I think eventually he would feel remorse and make amends....just not until he was safely back with you. He won't risk it. He won't put himself out there. He'd accept your hand if YOU extend it.
My WxH would have to move MOUNTAINS for me to consider reconciliation. For me, that's a deal breaker.
HE must make the choice - and put pride aside.
Some can do it and some can't.
If they can't, will they ALWAYS expect you to protect them from their own pride?
I'm interested in your response, though.
Fox
I'm interested too in your answer.
I also wanted you to know about her field trip Friday w/ the Y to the Arch.
Bugs,
I've never replied to you, but follow along a little. So does this mean the STL Arch???
If so, howdy sista.....(born and breed right here in the Lou...
)
not2fun
ps...and if this is where you are, then I want an invite to the ALL GIRLY PARTY.....
Bugsy:
About the suggestion from Lexxxy.....
Be afraid, be VERY Afraid.
As I advised earlier, if HappyHOHouse is now NOHOHouse, then its ALL up to Drac. HE WILL come sniffing around.
The right types of sniffing COULD allow you an appropriate response.
I even advised right before the D was final to invite him to lunch as a killer goddess. Thought that could distract/entice/divert him. To let him KNOW there was still hope. Look him in the eye to ask him "IS THIS THE RIGHT THING TO DO?"
However, IF, and that's a big IF, you CAN be receptive to his advances, you need to keep them on your terms. The first email from him last week was an example. He didn't have to be defensive anymore, and the tone was different. The longer that HO is gone, the less defensive he will be and the more each email will look like a request for assistance, to get MORE of Bugs OUT into the open. He WILL do this, and if he gets more and more from you, then he will feed you more. An email he sends, which may not have appeared to have much weight to you, may have ALL kinds of significance to him. Plan B starkness is what he should see, until and if you really want more of him.
Or, this warming trend may last for three weeks and be gone. You might have a shot right now.
Heck of a chance to take on those odds.
And I certainly do not want you to set a precedent of flinging yourself a drac everytime that HO1, or HO2 or HO3 exits the picture.
It's time for him to put himself out there.
LG
PS:
We had the Flamingo Fling two weekends ago! Rented the frozen slushie machine for GALLONS of Margaritias! A good time was had by all...
LG
My kneejerk reaction to the Plan A thought is along the lines of LG's. It's way too soon. He won't have withdrawn enough yet, and it would be too big a gamble for you. Too much of yourself and your hard-earned peace to risk on a wayward.
I can see throwing him a rope at some point, but not yet.
Dark, dark, dark.
Yea..I'm still getting the sense that he wants to be YOUR FRIEND..as in, you being one of his GIRLS...YUCK...
You want to be his WIFE...on a HIGHER, LOFTIER PlANE than the TRASH HEAP...
You know what I mean...
YOU'RE A GODDESS!!
OH MY...
Hi Bugs,
...in light of some of the advice given, I will be interested to know the impact on you, Bugs, if at all, of the definite signs of cracks in Drac's laland...
Well, well, I go out of town for a couple of days and all of this GREAT discussion happens without me!
I just figured out how to use my new aircard to bypass my company internet and can finally log on to MB on my work computer! OOHHH DON'T TELL!!
First, SL,,,, I love that you posted after you Chardonnay party the other night! I think that PWC is a MAROON, too!!
BH - You are right on that He does have a plan and it's up to us to trust and obey! I'm doing my BEST on both fronts!
James -
You're a super star around here Bugsy, and an inspiration to the rest of us facing life after reaching the D-Line. Keep your head up, chest out, and be proud girl.. you're an amazing woman!
That is so sweet - - I almost cried! It certainly helped brighten my day! Thank you so much!
Fox -
If Drac could do it, it would be icing on the cake. If he can't/won't do it, she still gets the cake from you
He CAN do it. Funny, this made me think of how much he enjoyed the Cake Eating time last year,,,
Ohhhhh Miss Lexxxy, Miss Lexxxy, you went and opened a can of worms, didn't you? I know that you must have sensed my 'pondering' of this already!
Do you have any interest in winning him back? I think a jump into Plan A would lure him back awfully quick.
I think Drac is that type of wayward that needs to keep his pride intact. I think he would respond to you as long as he didn't have to crawl back. As long as he could just explain a reconciliation as you just working things out.
How important is it to you that HE be the one to ask?
I think eventually he would feel remorse and make amends....just not until he was safely back with you. He won't risk it. He won't put himself out there. He'd accept your hand if YOU extend it.
I think was delaying my response, as I am really still thinking over things - - but some folks have already expressed some of my thoughts - -
LG,,
Be afraid, be VERY Afraid.
Don't worry,,,,,,,,I have that TOTALLY covered! Not a problem!
An email he sends, which may not have appeared to have much weight to you, may have ALL kinds of significance to him. Plan B starkness is what he should see, until and if you really want more of him.
Or, this warming trend may last for three weeks and be gone. You might have a shot right now.
Both things I've thought a LOT about. Plan B has gained me a great deal of peace. He has done or said nothing to indicate HE has changed in any way that would encourage a change from Plan B.
Yet,,,,,,,,,,,I, too worry about there being a short window of opportunity. Do I want to try to open that window OR if that window is small and it passes quickly would that be a good or bad thing?
And I certainly do not want you to set a precedent of flinging yourself a drac everytime that HO1, or HO2 or HO3 exits the picture.
It's time for him to put himself out there.
EGG-ZACT-LEE. I don't want to put myself out only to be rebuffed or used or strung along. I couldn't take it.
And Mimi, I agree. Right now I've seen nothing from him indicating that he'd consider anything more than "friends".
Honestly, it may not be terribly hard to get him to be "friends with benefits"
, but that is NOT for me.
I AM the Goddess and deserve nothing less than the Royal Treament as a Goddess/Wife.
SD, about throwing him that rope,,,,,would it be to help rescue him or for him to hang himself???
LG - - thanks for the tip about the slushie machine from the Flamingo Fling! Great idea! Glad her bash was a success!
Not2 - I'm not from The Lou- - - - -but have lived there in various areas. Truth is, I'm 'back home' on The East Side. Don't laugh, it's not the NEAR East Side! LOL!
For those that don't know, the NEAR East Side in STL houses lovely establishments such as Larry Flint's Hustler Club and other similiar businesses!
So, I'm not really answering your question yet Lexxxy, but only because I am not sure of the answer.
I am thinking about it all.
I am VERY afraid.
I won't take LESS than what I deserve, but there's going to be a special path to lead Drac back. Standing and DEMANDING will not work.
He is still in withdrawl
He would possibly be open to major cake - eating. That can mean many things, and should I decide to undertake trying any Plan A, I'd have to be prepared for that.
I think he'd accept the friend deal - - - but I would need that to advance beyond just friends, and not get stalled. If it did stall out at friends, it would never work - - too much PAIN.
I have lots to think about and promise to get back to you all later.
Thanks for all of the great posts!!
Oh Bugs, please be careful. I feel like you are about to walk on a tight rope with no net.
(((((Bugs))))))
Hey Bugs, here's to you have a spectacular party tomorrow. At least I think it's tomorrow.
Wish I could join you. LOL
Yet,,,,,,,,,,,I, too worry about there being a short window of opportunity. Do I want to try to open that window OR if that window is small and it passes quickly would that be a good or bad thing?
If the window is zinging by that quickly, and you try to jump in, you could lose an appendage.
No, seriously, IMO, when a WS is really ready for the commitment of rebuilding, recovery, there is no window; it's more like a large garage door that they open and give you the auto thingy to. Wait for that.
SL,
I so agree with you. If he thinks he can come back that easily, he will just as easily disrespect Bugs again.
Bugs, wait for the auto thingy.
Yeah Bugs.
I am for SL's auto thingy, too... with the intention that it be exclusively for YOUR car! ...even if figuring out how to use the auto thingy may take awhile...
I have all confidence in the world in BUGSY'S GODDESS KNOW-HOW about this!!
Have FAITH in BUGSY!!
All she has to do is to TRUST HER GUT!!
Remember she is the PRESIDENT of the PLAN B SUPPORT GROUP!!
SHE HAS THE POWER!!
Morning!
It's a beautiful morning, too!
The All Girl Party was a Blast! 8 straight hours of fun, talking, sipping our frozen drinks, talking, eating, and laughing does a body good!
We even added to the number of 'girls' attending -- my sister had rescued 4 kittens that had been dumped by her house a couple of weeks ago. She brought them over to entice some of the girls to adopt them. One of my friends whose cat is close the 'end' took one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and I kept 2. ALL GIRLS!
Poor Beau,,,,,,,,he was the only boy here - - but he seemed to rather enjoy that fact!
Yep, I broke down finally and Ladybugs now has her kittens that she has been beggging to get.
A good time was had by all!
I am outta here for church, but intend to come back with my First Annual Plan B State of the Union address.
It will be the 1 year anniversary of Plan B on the 19th. As yesterday was Drac's b-day,,,,,,,,,,,well, let's just say it's time as Mimi has elected me to President of the Plan B Support Group, I think it's time for a State of the Union.
Later
well, let's just say it's time as Mimi has elected me to President of the Plan B Support Group, I think it's time for a State of the Union.
THAT'S MY GIRL...LOL...WAITING TO EXHALE....
Anxiously awaiting. I too am approaching the one year mark...
One Year Plan B State of the Union AddressOn July 19th, it will have been one year of Plan B.
So, what has gone on in that year? Let's review.
A few peeks out of the darkness happened. Most every one of them met with less than positive responses from Drac. In fact, most of them were met with great hostility on his part.
Drac and the Ho broke up, back together, moved into the HappyHoHouse, Ho exits HappyHoHouse in just over 3 months, and they are currently (to my knowledge) apart, but it's only been a couple of weeks so far.
Bugs moved. Ladybugs started new school, new gymnastics, new dance class, made tons of new friends, new ball team, has grown several inches, started church and totally been the pride and joy of her mom!
Bugs has had her ups and downs and spins around. The rollercoaster has smoothed out into one nice cool, dark tunnel in Plan B. A few glitches in the tracks from time to time, but nothing that has totally de-railed the Plan B Train.
I think Bugs has GROWN a great deal mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and certainly advanced her Goddess skills in this last year. Self doubt creeps in sometimes, loneliness happens, and she does long for her love almost every day. Yet, it is not PAIN that is the focus of every moment of every day for her. In fact, more joy than pain is what her life is now like.
I believe that Drac is most likely already seeing someone else. I have no facts to back this up, but a couple of late evening calls from a business number to DSS's phone have let me to believe that there's already another ho in the picture. In fact, the first of those calls happened BEFORE the exit of the HO.
So, now that the original HO is gone, and it has been a year of Plan B, I have been thinking about the continued application of Plan B.
I have to agree with Lexxxy's observation that Drac is most likely the type of WS that will need to feel 'safe' first before being repetant. I do not envision him coming to me with his hat in his hand, on bended knee, admitting to recognition of the extreme pain he has inflicted, nor with any admission of wrong doing on his part.
I could possibly see him, as LG indicated, reaching out in emails, offering less hostility and seeking more from me. It would be a gradual thing.
What kind of 'window' of opportunity is there? Honestly, right now, I do not see any window, let alone a garage door and auto thingy. Someone asked what I thought about the 'cracks' I'm seeing in Drac.
Frankly, I don't really see ANY cracks. Yes, his email was a bit nicer. Yes, he in fact THANKED me last week for my help in his plans for being out of town. But this was all VERY business like - - nothing more. Granted, it wasn't AS cold or AS defensive as before, yet it's nothing I see as being a 'crack' in his 'doneness' with Bugs. He needed help, he doesn't have the HO, he recognized he 'might' be able to get some help from me. That's it.
I have little doubt that some good Plan A action on my part would elicit a response from Drac. I LOVED doing things in Plan A and I can think of things that would probably be effective.
As I mentioned, yesterday was his birthday. I thought about doing many things - - For instance, I didn't remind the kids about his bday last week, so I thought about getting him cards/presents for them to give him that they could give him tonight when he drops off. I thought about delivering a gift/card and leaving it on his porch. I thought about calling his dad to remind him it was Drac's bday(as Dad usually doesn't remember the exact day).
So,,,,,,,,,,,after coming up with lots of great ideas - Here's what I DID - -
That's right.
Nothing.
It is not that it is a Must Have for Drac to come to me on bended knee, acknowledging the errors of his ways. I really don't expect that. In fact, should there ever be a chance of us having a relationship of ANY sort, I am positive it will be necessary for ME to LEAD him along the path, and for me to provide many reassurances along the way. Another Plan A will likely be what is necessary.
However, before I can consider reaching out my hand, or throwing out the rope, I am going to have to see/feel a change in him. I don't have an expectation of what this opportunity that will look like - I just know that I will
know it if/when it happens.
I've placed this all in God's hands a long time ago. God is faithful. He will handle this. Look at what's He has done already. The Ho does not live there any more. That is in no way due to ANYTHING about me.
So, I see NO changes in Drac to indicate that now would be the time to reach out. As LG also said, it can not be or
appear to be that Bugs throws herself at Drac after each HO exits the picture. I'm not in that league. It will only be when Drac is ready to elevate himself to the level of having a TRUE relationship that I can even consider giving him a second look.
Last night Ladybugs called me from Drac's aunt's house where she was spending the night. I did not know about that in advance. DSS was spending the night at Drac's Dad's. Drac went out last night for his Bday.
Several take aways from that - - First, Drac didn't want to ask ME to watch the kids while he went out for his birthday. Now there are several things that brings to mind --
1. He didn't want me to know that he was going out
2. He didn't ask ME to watch the kids - so I'm not relegated to the 'friend' catagory yet
3. In the entire situation, the thought of me, the thought of what I would think or how I would feel NEVER even crossed his mind.
I think #3 is where Drac's mind is.
In Drac's world, I am not anything other than mother to Ladybugs and former step-mother to DSS. All other aspects of his life have nothing to do with me whatsoever.
Yes, it hurts to say/think those things, but it is what it is.
All of this tells me that for now, Plan B is where I need to be.
I continue to pray that it will change. I continue to pray in thanksgiving for the blessings that have been given me, and ask that continue in my life. I continue to pray for Drac and for a restoration of our family.
But FIRST and foremost, I pray that I continue to submit to God's will and that HIS plan come to fruition in my life.
So, for the forseeable future, Plan B it is. I will be watchful for 'opportunities' in the near future, as nothing is impossible. However, those opportunities will have to be something special. I just know that I will
know it at the right time.
At the party yesterday, when everyone was there, I did not mention his name one time. I think I made only 1 reference that had anything to do with him at all, and it was just that the kids had a bad camping experience Memorial day weekend.
Now one of my friends works in the same office with Drac. I could have brought up lots of things about him, past, present, and future.
I didn't.
Something said just to tie up my tongue in that regard, and I did. I did not even mention knowing about the exit of the Ho from the house. I don't know why, but I think God really just laid it on my heart not to bring him up at all. That has been a really big STRUGGLE for me, and a struggle on a daily basis even today.
I don't know what the plan is in that regard, but it's not my place to worry about it.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,is anyone surprised at this rambling State of The Union and plan for the future??
Anyone have different thoughts/ideas, things I haven't considered? Comments? 2x4's?
I have to go get the grass mowed and then I am hitting the pool for a nap on my Goddess Float!
Thanks everyone for your continued support. I hope that someday soon I'm going to need input for another Fabulous Plan A, but only time will tell on that.
THAT'S MY BUGSY!!!
Out on her GODDESS FLOAT!!
CHEERS!!...sound of clinking glasses....
I raise my glass to you Bugsy, currently brimming with Iced Green Tea. You have made a wise choice, IMO. Drac really would need to give you SOME indication that he even wanted you to attempt to draw him in. As it stands, it just sounds like he's in the beginning stages of attempting to co-parent.
Believe me, he WILL come to you if he really wants to start over. It may not be on his hands and knees, but you will know. Despite our terrible end, PWC did come to me. I just believe he was not up to the task at hand; probably figured it would be easier. Unfortunately, he was sorely mistaken.
Que sera sera. I've given it over and am following the path that is lighted for me. I'm not fighting it anymore. I finally feel a sense of peace and comfort that there is hope for happiness for me. I haven't felt this happy in my life in a long time, and I'm not about to muck it up with a need to control. My life is manageable.
I'm currently baking some cookies and blueberry muffins with DS; then we will hit the pool again (got in this morning around 11), toss the football around in the pool, and then watch a movie to wind things down. Boy, I tell ya, the thought of having a home without a pool SUX. With the way finances are, I fear that day is rapidly approaching. But that's a conversation for another time.
Hi Bugs,
It will only be when Drac is ready to elevate himself to the level of having a TRUE relationship that I can even consider giving him a second look.
I didn't think you would 'settle' either... and as you say.... you will
know whatever you need to know and whenever...
...and I do think it's the healthier choice: holding back from having to do ANYTHING about his birthday, even though you were not short on ideas!
...I certainly find it encouraging to see that I am aiming to make the same kind of changes you are making: not talking about WS, not feeling responsible about WS.... and letting things fall where they may! ...I think that is what 'letting go' is all about... and a direct result of choosing to be in Plan B...
..and thanks for sharing Bugs... and I think that you are doing GREAT!
I knew you would do the smart thing Bugs. Good job. You are THE Goddess.....
Morning!
Yesterday after church I mowed and trimmed the grass. Then I cleaned up a bit from the party. Before putting everything away, I mixed up a pitcher of frozen Rum Runners for myself.
Then, it was in the pool, lounging on the Goddess Float, sipping my drink, reading my book, floating around and relaxing! It felt GREAT.
I think a lot of the ability to really relax came from my decision to do Nothing when it comes to Drac for now.
So, I came in and had just sat down to relax. My phone rang about 30 minutes before time for Drac to drop off Ladybugs. I figured she was calling to let me know that they were running late. I answered, "Hey BabyBugs!"
I heard, "No, Bugs, it's me."
It was Drac.
After my heart skipped a beat, I asked, "What's up?"
He apparently didn't hear me and said, "Are you there?"
I said, "yes, what's up?"
He said, "I had a blow out. I'm by the side of they highway with the kids. Triple A is on their way, but with the damage to the rim, I don't know if they will be able to get the tire off and they will probably have to tow the car. Are you back? Can you come get the kids and I'll figure out what I'm going to do?"
(I don't understand the 'are you back' question - - does he think I go out of town every weekend?)
I asked, "Is everyone ok?"
"yes, we're fine. I just need you to get the kids"
I said, "I'm putting on my shoes and I'm on my way. Where are you?"
He told me and said, "Thanks".
I just said "ok" and hung up.
So, here I am in shorts, with my swimsuit top on with a see through coverup on over it, and my Goddess hat. I checked my makeup, threw on sunglasses and shoes and hit the road.
I was 3 minutes away when he called again asking how close I was. Apparently the tow truck driver was able to get the tire off and he'd not need to be towed, but as I was so close, that I could go ahead and pick up Ladybugs. He even mentioned that he didn't have her softball uniform and would have to get that to me for her games this week. I just said, "Ok".
I pulled up behind him just as the tow truck was pulling away. He got Ladybugs out of the car, and I remained in mine. He tried to catch my eye and signal a wave of thanks. I was just smiling at Ladybugs and didn't really pay attention to him.
As I was pulling out, a co-worker of his was pulling up,,,,,,,,apparently he had called him in case he needed a ride. I had considered offering to drive him to this work to pick up a truck, should his suv end up being towed - - but had planned on just playing it by ear when I arrived. I was just glad it wasn't the Ho or another ho pulling up!
I'm not sure what to think about this.
I say keep on keepin on with the Plan B for now. He got a glimpse of you; you came to HIS rescue. Wowzers! That's good plan A stuff without even doing Plan A. Don't make too much of it, though, Bugsy. Nothing has changed. You made a deposit. NOW...
Go back to floatin in the pool.
Hi Bugs,
I'm not sure what to think about this.
Like SL, I say...back to Plan B!
Its as predicted.
The thaw.
Thats why I asked the question. Do you want to stay in Plan B?
Or open a few things up with Plan A?
I guess maybe instinctively you responded the right way.
Maybe thats all you need to do is take each situation as they come.
But I still think he's open to you, just not willing to show it.
Here's the deal: He fears rejection by you, because rightly so he should have NO expectation of nice treatment from you. So he is extremely hesitant in extending himself.
Again, he's hoping you will make it easy for him. And if you did, he would be all over it. And you'd likely get him back, just not in a repentant remorseful package.
So maybe just continue to survey the environment. Take each situation as they come, react accordingly.
Its as predicted.
The thaw.
Is it? Or is it that without the Ho, Bugs is the only option for 'help' at times like this?
But I still think he's open to you, just not willing to show it.
Here's the deal: He fears rejection by you, because rightly so he should have NO expectation of nice treatment from you. So he is extremely hesitant in extending himself.
I don't know that he's yet 'open to me', but more that he's open to my assistance.
I would HOPE that he understands that he should have no expectation of nice treatment from me. That was the sound in his voice yesterday - - hesitant to say the least. Almost expecting hostility from me. Silly WS,,,,not even giving a thought to those changes he was told/shown in Plan A.
Again, he's hoping you will make it easy for him. And if you did, he would be all over it.
Maybe,,,,,I don't know that I am as confident about that as you are.
And you'd likely get him back, just not in a repentant remorseful package
And that's the rub, now isn't it? Let's assume you are right, that he could be slowly brought around through Plan A. At some point or another, we WOULD need to deal with the Affair. Would he ever be open to that or would it be a whole lot of work only to get to the point of no recovery due to no remorse?
OR
Would the slow path back be able to bring about dealing with the issues of the A, and then eventually to real recovery?
Don't know. At this point, I'm not going to speculate.
What I'll likely do is this -
I guess maybe instinctively you responded the right way.
Maybe thats all you need to do is take each situation as they come
Here's the thing. Yesterday after I hung up from him and was getting it together to go pick up Ladybugs, I wasn't 'frazzled' like I have been in the past when thinking about actually SEEING him. I had a very peaceful feeling.
My thoughts at the time were , "Well, you have been wondering about potential Plan A stuff - perhaps this fits a bit of Plan A. You have given this over to God. He IS dealing with it. Apparently HE thinks Drac needs a glimpse of you today. What are the chances of him having a blowout and then calling you??Whatever, if any, interaction you have/don't have with him when you get there is in God's hands."
Really, as I said yesterday, God is in charge here. It's up to me to 'listen and obey' the best that I can.
I have NO expectations of what may or may not happen here. I don't know how to explain it, but it's a feeling that GOOD THINGS are happening here. But I'm not going overboard with any of it. I do feel recent things are going in a good direction, but it's not because I am controlling anything.
I'm just working on floatin around the pool,,,,,,
Because when I think TOO much about this
When I wonder what I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do
When I speculate on what he may or may not think
When I speculate on what he may or may not feel
I become AFRAID.
Afraid of getting sucked in only to be hurt again
Afraid of total and utter rejection
Afraid of being used
Afraid of doing a lot of work only to be back to square one
Afraid, Afraid, Afraid
And this Goddess has come waaay too far to spend my time being afraid.
"yes, we're fine. I just need you to get the kids"
Ummmmmm....no credit to Drac....but.....
I think maybe he was just doing the right thing. Blowouts/flats on the highway are scary for adults and kids alike, and people get hurt. This was by no means a contrived contact.
Who else more appropriate could he have called?
I would not waste too many brain cells thinking on this one. Save them for the frozen drinks.
When I speculate on what he may or may not think
When I speculate on what he may or may not feel
Another avoidable road to brain damage.
Afraid of getting sucked in only to be hurt again
Afraid of total and utter rejection
Afraid of being used
Afraid of doing a lot of work only to be back to square one
Afraid, Afraid, Afraid
And without remorse, repentance, redemption and rehabilitation by Drac, these fears would likely become a reality.
Plan B in peace Bugs. As the old cigar smoking bird used to say on the Frontier Airlines commercials, "It's the Oooooonly way to fly."
Chris,
I don't think this was contrived contact. It is contact that would not happened while HappyHoHouse was still intact.
You make reference a lot to loss of brain cells and brain damage,,,,,,,what exactly are you trying to say? That I don't have many to spare? LOL!
Would that put me in the catagory of Abbi? Abbi-normal??
You gotta love Marty Feldman & Young Frankenstein!
It may be a bit interesting at Ladybugs game tonight - - my ex-football player co-worker will be attending the game with me tonight.
And without remorse, repentance, redemption and rehabilitation by Drac, these fears would likely become a reality
I agree with chrisner.
You DESERVE all of the above from Drac, Goddess Bugs.
I think we become FEARFUL for a reason. It makes us think twice about our choices. FEAR is an instinct that was built into us for PROTECTION.
While some fears are unfounded, there are times when we have every reason to be fearful and protect ourselves.
Plan B in peace Bugs. As the old cigar smoking bird used to say on the Frontier Airlines commercials, "It's the Oooooonly way to fly."
Ditto
Fox
It may be a bit interesting at Ladybugs game tonight - - my ex-football player co-worker will be attending the game with me tonight.
This is gonna get interesting....
So maybe just continue to survey the environment. Take each situation as they come, react accordingly.
This is where I think you should be, with an instinctive default towards Plan B.
Have you thought about consulting with the Harleys again to get their take on the current situation?
This is where I think you should be, with an instinctive default towards Plan B.
Oh, I am definately not stating that Plan B isn't the path for me. I will evaluate any circumstance, such as yesterday, WHEN and/or IF they come about.
Just trusting God and trusting my 'gut' instinct. If my gut tells me something, I go to God first before doing anything.
Believe me, if I have any inkling or thought of starting a
real Plan A again, you all here will know it well in advance. There would have to be something MAJOR coming from Drac for that to even be considered.
So,,,,,,,,,thinking of taking lunch floating around the pool.
I don't know exactly my feelings about tonight. I'm not exactly nervous,,it's hard to describe. This co-work has been a friend of mine for a long time. He owes me a ballgame and dinner from a bet on the World Series in 2006. He travels and this is his first trip since then to my town. As it's Ladybugs game night, I told him I couldn't miss her game, but that if he was interested in watching 7yr old girls, we could count that as the game he owes me - - I called back saying he'd love to watch 7 year old girls play ball even more than professionals.
I thought that was very nice.
So, guess I'll be throwing in an extra chair and some pop for tonight's game.
called back saying he'd love to watch 7 year old girls play ball even more than professionals.
I thought that was very nice.
or creepy
j/j
I'm sure he's as sweet as Massoura......what ever the he11's sweet in Missoura
Leave it to BC to ferret out the ONE thing I was going to comment on.
Seriously, though, Bugsy, I'm sure this 'friend' of yours will stir things up inside Drac, if he's at the game.
Bugs:
Your right. Drac would have NEVER called about the blowout if the HappyHoHouse existed. To the extent that the kids could have been late to drop off. Yes, you might have gotten a call along the lines of "Bugs, I had a blowout, (darn your tire company!) and I will be there with the kids when I get it sorted out."
However, HE thought HE could get your YOUR support for this.
Yes, the kids are on the side of the road, its scary and you might have been the closest relief.
But he would NOT have done it if HappyHoHouse still existed.
I would tighten the Plan B. Because HE IS working the angles right now. And you will get sucked into MORE and MORE of these conversations if your not careful.
Now about this evening....
Look good, I mean GODDESS GOOD, and tell him that HE still owes you dinner for those losing Tigers...
And DRAC can drool all night long at WHAT he lost...
Do you have a copy of your Plan B letter handy? You should. In your car, briefcase and on the top of the fridge.
Because he WILL contact you soon in such a way that you will need to be able to look him in the eye and say: "There IS a way home, and its outlined in this letter that I gave you before. Are you ready to travel it WITH ME?" And hand him the letter.
LG
BC:
It's not "creepy"
It could be, but he isn't going to the game to see 7 year olds.
He wants to see Bugsy in her Coach's Shorts with that whistle thingy around her neck.
I'm sure he has been asking Bugsy for MONTHS to go to the dinner, and this is the first crack he has been able to get.
Little thing called RC here. He's trying to build a $LB with Bugs.
AND, yes AND, if he was going to see the 7 year olds? Bugs would have NOTHING to do with him.
LG
This guy definetely needs a nickname.
How can we have Bugs, Drac, Ho, Ladybugs, and then just xco-worker football guy.
I say we call him Brett Favre. He can sit next to me anytime!
Goddess up!!!
and you can tell us....
Do you have a copy of your Plan B letter handy? You should. In your car, briefcase and on the top of the fridge.
Because he WILL contact you soon in such a way that you will need to be able to look him in the eye and say: "There IS a way home, and its outlined in this letter that I gave you before. Are you ready to travel it WITH ME?" And hand him the letter.
Right on. What LG said.
Because he WILL contact you soon in such a way that you will need to be able to look him in the eye and say: "There IS a way home, and its outlined in this letter that I gave you before. Are you ready to travel it WITH ME?" And hand him the letter.
And MORE LIKELY to happen once he sees you with FOOTBALL GUY..
Except now
I'm thinking about Bugsy in her coaching shorts.
Must . . . focus . . . .
Lexxxy:
About this:
I say we call him Brett Favre
Would that end up being "Something about Bugsy?"
SDGuy:
Stop THAT!
LG
You all are tooo funny!!
Would that end up being "Something about Bugsy?"
ROTFLMAO!!
No,,,,it's not a DATE. It's a payoff from a bet. Well, honestly, LG does have it a bit right. I do think that it could very well be a date if I wanted it to be. I've been totally upfront with this guy and he knows it's not like that. I'm not ready and really, neither is he.
Sorry, Lexxxy, he's not a Brett Farve, and frankly Brett just isn't my cup of tea. He's more like the actor Michael Duncan Clarke, but with hair. He's a pretty big guy, but with that 'teddy bear' type personality. (BC if you reference the movie Striptease, I'll have to make you sorry somehow!)
As for Drac, he will be surprised that I am with a guy, that he is a BIG guy (bigger than he is since Drac isn't a small guy, that I brought him to Ladybugs game and he's never heard a single word about him from Ladybugs.
Well, that's his stuff, not mine. The truth is maybe he won't give 2 hoots about it one way or another. We
are just speculating here.
SD - - forget the coaches shorts!! (that made me smile, btw).
I'd already planned as LG suggested with Total Goddess mode. As a matter of fact, remember last May when I invited Drac to drinks and he ended up trying to tell me how it was OK for Ladybugs and the HO to go overnight together for Memorial weekend?? THAT is what I am wearing. Short flirty skirt, fitted shirt that shows off my tan, and cute little heels. Very Goddess like, even if it's not 'appropriate' ballgame attire.
I have a 'dinner' after the game, remember?
I gotta get some work done now folks! Thanks for the laughs!!
I'm pretty sure it's Michael Clarke Duncan
You need to get your large hairless black men straight woman!
and I vote for "Mean Joe Green"
OOOOO WHEEEE!
I LIKE Michael Clarke Duncan! He seems to always be grinning. Kinda like George Forman.
Fox
Kinda like George Forman.
Please just tell me this guy does NOT look like George Forman. He's kinda OLD for you, isn't he?
I was talking about the perpetual SMILE.
Silly!
Fox
although, he's usually smiling at a hamburger on his grill
You need to get your large hairless black men straight woman!
It's guys with 3 names that confuse me!!
I gotta vote down the name Mean Joe Green, it fits the football theme, but not this guy.
Please just tell me this guy does NOT look like George Forman. He's kinda OLD for you, isn't he?
Do I really have to tell you that? You don't know better?? George Forman is a great guy,,, love those grills and that smile, but yes, he IS a bit old for me!
Maybe I'll figure out a way to ask him if he has any nicknames from his playing days.
How's about "Sweetness"?
Hopefully not "The Fridge"
Bugsy:
We can call him "coffee" MCD's name in "the Green Mile"
But thats only if the dinner continues....
LG
BC: Shot 96 yesterday! Normally 104 on THAT course...
Definately NOT The Fridge!
Just got email from Drac.
Ladybugs coach emailed today with the rescheduled rainout dates for her last games. The last is during Drac's week when he is out of town.
He'd made arrangements during that week for Ladybugs to be at his Mom's one night and his Aunt's the other. As I had agreed to help out the DSS, I asked to have her the same & then to take her to the Aunt's house.
He said NO.
Welllllllllllll now he thinks it would be best for her not to miss those ballgames and that she could stay with me. He even offered to have her go to the daycare he takes her to that week, "it is already paid for".
AND
He offered to pick her up from daycare today and get her ready for the game tonight since he has her uniform at his house.
WTF??
heheheheehehe I just LOOOOOVE being right.
At least we've prepared you....this isn't a surprise right?
lordy lordy, you couldn't have picked a better nite to bring a "date" to the game.
Drac's world starts spinning tonight...
Any bets on tomorrow's emails?? (keep in mind its risky to bet against BUGS! just ask MCD!)
Bugsy:
Two weeks ago, he was at HappyHoHouse.
This week, it's bleak and maybe I can attract Bugsy back.
SSSOOO, you are no longer the cause of global warming.
And you CAN see ladybugs just a litle bit more.. "Because, I'm really a NICE GUY!" See!
And then tonight....
Well, look how HELPFUL he is being!
Get all the time you can with Ladybugs and DSS. Pick your DD up and have him bring the uniform. Hae her change before the game. Ignore him after that.
The sniffing he is doing is embrassasing. If he wasn't so TRANSPARENT, and tragic, it would be funny.
Please copy that Plan B letter before you go to the game.
Please tell us if "coffee" beats Drac to a pulp tonight however....
LG
I better tell James to get a whole HEEP of Jiffy Pop ready...
If he wasn't so TRANSPARENT, and tragic, it would be funny.
It's really not funny, because this is real life and all, but it's so predictable, it's funny.
Whiplash? More like a solid concussion! YIKES!
heheheheehehe I just LOOOOOVE being right.
At least we've prepared you....this isn't a surprise right?
The 'surprise' part is the fact that it happened so fast.
Any bets on tomorrow's emails?? (keep in mind its risky to bet against BUGS! just ask MCD!)
For years I have been the world's biggest loser when it comes to gambling of any sort. Do you suppose my luck is changing?
We shall see.
I don't know about the emails tomorrow, nor about if this will 'spin' Drac's world. I'm still a bit of a skeptic on that.
And, keep in mind that if I am taking care of Ladybugs, that then includes my taking care of DSS, too. Less for Drac to take care of when he can rely on Bugs.
So,,,,,,,it's not him wanting me in any way. It IS right now, more about using me to his advantage. This is what I need to be aware of and the reason to stick to the dark side.
right?
LG,
We were crossing over on our posts.
Get all the time you can with Ladybugs and DSS. Pick your DD up and have him bring the uniform. Hae her change before the game. Ignore him after that.
Already DONE!! That was my exact reply to him!
Please copy that Plan B letter before you go to the game.
I may still have one around here somewhere,,,,my printer is out of ink so I can't print one off the computer.
Please tell us if "coffee" beats Drac to a pulp tonight however....
Don't count on that. His style would be more like walking up to Drac, looking straight down at him from above, sticking out his hand, shaking hands (tightly), smiling, and introducing himself, then just walking away with a laugh and a smile.
Hmmm....I'll throw my fortune telling hat into the ring.
My guess would be that you WILL get emails tomorrow.
Angry, blaming, frustrated emails.
Possible change of plans for DD and DSS in spending that "extra" time with you.
He'll come back around....but MCD will throw Drac for a loop. While in the back of his mind, Drac "thinks" Bugs moving on his possible, he will not like seeing it as a REALITY.
Fox
Silly girl....
Go back a few posts. He's not going to ask you on a date.
He's wayyyyy to sneaky and ashamed of himself to do that.
Its going to be subtle. He's going to use the kids to open communication...
Being more forthcoming on info about DSS.
Giving you more time and access with DSS.
Being more chatty and involved with kids.
Sound familiar yet?
Don't count on that. His style would be more like walking up to Drac, looking straight down at him from above, sticking out his hand, shaking hands (tightly), smiling, and introducing himself, then just walking away with a laugh and a smile
Oooh, I like that.
Strong and confident, with a possible implied threat......
Poor Dracy...........or not.
Fox
His style would be more like walking up to Drac, looking straight down at him from above, sticking out his hand, shaking hands (tightly), smiling, and introducing himself, then just walking away with a laugh and a smile.
Ahhhh, confidence is a beautiful thing, ain't it?
Bugsy, I never could see, while in the midst of things, how PWC followed the wayward script. It's still hard to see, because I'm so close to it. After reading some previous posts, remembering what I can about the past three years (can you say Post Traumatic Stress?), and looking at our path, I'd say the script exists. LG and Lexxxy are speaking to you from experience.
Lexxxy and LG called it, and I have to believe them. This turnaround was probably no faster than they've seen in the past.
Question is, is it really worth you making any EXTRA effort to draw him back? I would have to say no, not without some show of him recognizing the error of his ways. Without that, you are swimming into DRAC infested water.
Do you suppose that Drac will believe the "we're just friends" line?
This may be a beautiful moment of irony for him.
Fox
Ahhhh, confidence is a beautiful thing, ain't it?
Absolutely! As long as "arrogance" is no where to be seen.
A man TRULY confident - is not arrogant.
Fox
Do you suppose that Drac will believe the "we're just friends" line?
This may be a beautiful moment of irony for him.
Irony,,,,,do you think that will even occur to him? Doubtful.
Silly girl....
Go back a few posts. He's not going to ask you on a date.
He's wayyyyy to sneaky and ashamed of himself to do that.
Its going to be subtle. He's going to use the
kids to open communication...
Being more forthcoming on info about DSS.
Giving you more time and access with DSS.
Being more chatty and involved with kids.
Sound familiar yet?
Yes, oh wise one! You and LG have called it. Yes, I am silly I suppose. I guess I am much as SL posted about herself -
Bugsy, I never could see, while in the midst of things, how PWC followed the wayward script. It's still hard to see, because I'm so close to it. After reading some previous posts, remembering what I can about the past three years (can you say Post Traumatic Stress?), and looking at our path, I'd say the script exists. LG and Lexxxy are speaking to you from experience
Lexxxy and LG called it, and I have to believe them. This turnaround was probably no faster than they've seen in the past.
It's really not all that fast when you think in terms of the time from the first DDay, but it seems like lightening speed from the demise of HappyHoHouse.
Don't they make some kind of repellant for that?
Oh yea,,,, It's called Plan B.
Lexxxy and LG called it, and I have to believe them. This turnaround was probably no faster than they've seen in the past.
It's really not all that fast when you think in terms of the time from the first DDay, but it seems like lightening speed from the demise of HappyHoHouse.
If things progress along this path, I'd call the Harleys for a consult and a plan.
Where is JAMES WITH THE POPCORN?????
Where is JAMES WITH THE POPCORN?????
Hopefully getting EXTRA butter!!!!
Please excuse us, Bugs, while we live vicariously through you.
Fox
p.s. JAMES - please be sure the pig snot tube is NO WHERE near our popcorn!
but it seems like lightening speed from the demise of HappyHoHouse.
You are assuming a lot about that house, me thinks.
Now it's the "HappyNoHoHouse"
Fox
Can I have one of those girly slushy drinks instead of popcorn?
It'll make all this speculatin' much more fun!
I soooo wish I could watch Drac catch sight of the Goddess and the football player!
Lexxxy, I wish you had been there, too - - because I didn't see anything when it came to Drac other than where he was sitting and when he said goodbye to Ladybugs.
MCD and I sat close to homeplate. Drac arrived just in time for Ladybugs to grab her stuff and run over to me to help her change. He sat quite a ways down and behind where I couldn't really see him and I was busy getting Ladybugs changed so I didn't see what, if any, reaction there was.
MCD was very cool about the whole night. He even asked me a couple of times if I was okay,,,,as he knows what it's like to go through this kind of thing. I asked him back if he was ok, and he replied, "Hey, I'm 6ft 3 and 234. I'll always be ok"
Ladybugs spent most of her time with me between innings, and almost none over with Drac. DSS didn't come so Drac was by himself.
MCD told me to expect to get some email tomorrow from Drac, givng me grief about him being there. I said I doubted if I'd hear about it, so we placed a new dinner bet.
I did carry off the Goddess look very well. MCD had on his business casual, which quite nice for casual. Although not a date, we made a nice looking couple, if I do say so myself.
After the game I spoke with several folks that I know on the way to the car, so I didn't even see Drac leave. My paster made a point to introduce himself to MCD, which was very nice.
Sorry to disappoint, but there's really nothing to report. I don't know how much Drac looked, observed, noticed, reacted, whatever (if he did any of those things at all, , he may not have given me a second glance)
I was actually quite comfortable. We enjoyed the game and had nice conversation. After MCD took us for salad & pizza. He was great with Ladybugs. He left right after dinner and that was it.
All this great build up for what turned out to be a non-event. Actually, I'd describe it as just a nice evening. I enjoyed the company.
Oh, and it was nice to remember what it is like to have a man open my car door, restaurant door, etc.! It's been a while since I've had someone treat me like a lady in that way!
MCD told me to expect to get some email tomorrow from Drac, givng me grief about him being there. I said I doubted if I'd hear about it, so we placed a new dinner bet.
I think MCD sounds like a very smart man. I can picture the scene... DRAC sitting behind you guys unable to concentrate on the game because his eyes were BUG-GING out! How dare you have a life and be happy now that he's free.
Good golly Miss Bugs,
We have had quite a couple of days haven't we? I don't know where James is, but I have the popcorn.
You are doing incredible... And especially by listening to those who understand what is going on and therefore able to help you walk through it.
{{{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}
he may not have given me a second glance)
Cmon, Bugsy, he SAW you alright...
All this great build up for what turned out to be a non-event.
We'll see....
Well, OF COURSE, it bothered him, piqued his interest ("who is that guy?" he thinks). Duh. I mean, c'mon, even your PASTOR was interested in meeting this man. Be for real, Bugsy.
c'mon, even your PASTOR was interested in meeting this man. Be for real, Bugsy.
Yeah, Bugsy....
Hah.
No email yet?
That is because Drac was awake all night. Tossing and turning and knowing that he went too far. He actually pushed Bugsy all the way away. Now what can he do? He's strategizing and thinking. How can I make contact and find out what is going on?
Will ladybugs tell me who this guy is? Can I call her sister?
Who will tell me?
He's going to SNOOP!
Cuz he knows you won't answer his questions.
When does he see ladybugs again? She's going to get the 3rd degree!
You've got to be DARKER than ever, ever....
Okay, Okay, so I am sure he noticed. Frankly, how could you miss such a big good looking guy like that sitting next to me?
I am just trying to be as REALISTIC as possible - and to me, REALISTICLY speaking, it is possible that Drac's reaction could be RELIEF.
RELIEF that I have 'finally accepted and moved on'. Remember, that has been what he's told me he wants me to do.
That's what I meant by not giving us a second glance. I meant not giving it much of a second thought. He's now even MORE free to move on with the next HO or rekindle with THE HO with less guilt.
It's his opportunity to 'be friends' and have the advantages of a friendly relationship with the Ex.
Drac won't be with Ladybugs until Sunday night, so not much chance of any questions for quite some time.
Today I am having lunch with a co-worker I haven't seen in a while who is friends with Drac. We have been friends for 15 years through work, and then out of work during my marriage to Drac.
I intend to NOT have Drac on the list of topics that we discuss today. I am asking no questions and making no comments.
Gotta run. Ladybugs has a field trip today and can't be late!
You've got to be DARKER than ever, ever....
Definately
Bugs:
You and MCD sat behind home plate. Drac was out of YOUR sightline.
But you WERE NOT out of his sightline.
He watched. He stewed.
Just wait.
Your Plan B just got alot more fun.
Buy some ink for that printer.
When you get the email, keep it short and sweet.
Drac:
"We're Just Friends"
Bugs
I really liked that, whoever pointed that out.
I do not believe that you will get vile evil (wow! those are the same letteres, resorted!) emails. Nope. That would not serve his purpose.
So, expect a chatty email about the kids, with a subtle reference to MCD. Then you can answer the kid quuestion if you like, but the only answer he is looking for is the bait he dropped for MCD. I would reply as above if it is more direct, i.e., "who's your friend?" then if it was indirect, "were you there with anyone else?" or "Why did you sit someplace beside your normal place at the game?"
As an aside. Your evening with MCD. You state that he asked you SEVERAL times if you were OK. You said yes. Was your tension that noticeable? Where you wound so tight, that you could not be the Bugsy that you are capable of being when Drac isn't within sightlines? Just a thought. Maybe MCD is just a more considerate guy and CAN pickup on what your emotional state is, and with some knowledge of the sitch you are in, wanted to make sure that HE wasn't causing you MORE discomfort. He's intruded into an area that MAYBE he should NOT have trod yet. Maybe just going to Applebys and having dinner to pay off the bet could have worked better. Just a thought.
As much fun as it is to poke a stick in the eye of Drac, we certainly do not want to use others in that process. (I do not think you were using MCD) However, during and after the event, the unknown undercurrents may have come to the surface. Your dinner was better because Drac wasn't around, and you COULD be calmer.
Oh well. Just me musing a little.
LG
Bugs,
What did LadyBugs think about MCD being there?
Drac noticed - he HAD to, affair or not you were his woman for a long time. Even people I knew in high school that I didn't date, draw my attention if I see them out and around. I'm curious about what they are up to now. Your importance is much bigger to Drac.
He may act aloof, he may struggle with himself NOT to react in your presence, but he saw and I have no doubt that it effected him.
Keep is updated today - Drac will need to do SOMETHING.
As for the opening of the car door and restaurant door - isn't that the coolest thing? To be treated like a LADY? Women's lib has it's place, but I sure like to be taken care of and treated well sometimes.
Fox
Remember, that has been what he's told me he wants me to do.
And remember... waywards say the dumbest things.
And remember... waywards say the dumbest things.
I will reiterate, if you step back and look at Drac with the wayward script translator in hand, you will see that he is no different than many other waywards; they SAY all sorts of idiotic stuff, DO even MORE idiotic stuff, but they ARE predictable.
Heck, they run out on their families, BUY new homes, play 'house' with the Ho's and expect all to be well in that wake. Maroons
I know, I know, Drac said this or that, and has followed thru, blah blah blah. Sure he has, because he was IN an affair, may still be, just boomeranging at the moment.
HE is just TYPICAL. Yeah, that doesn't mean that you will have the fractured fairytale ending you want, where you all, eventually, live together as a restored family, but that doesn't mean he won't WANT you to make it so. Problem is, at least for me, that ending would require PWC to be completely bottomed out.
I have been jerked around enough to say WHEN. Honestly, PWC followed the script, over and over again, just in a more PA kinda way; ignoring me and pushing me away to the point that he got me to throw him out, over and over again. What a sick dance.
You are doing it right, Bugsy. Hang in there. You never know what could happen. Any way it goes, you are going to be A okay.
Drac:
"We're Just Friends"
Bugs
I may have misinterpreted this from LG..not reading carefully..BUT...DO NOT RESPOND this way...
Drac needs to be kept IN THE DARK...
You owe him NO EXPLANATIONS about YOUR LIFE...
He needs to SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES of his ACTIONS...Bottom out as SL has stated...
He may be telling himself that you had someone else in order to justify his actions...BUT to see it in BLACK AND WHITE (LOL..no pun intended until I typed this) probably sent him over SOME edge...
Good afternoon, everyone!
Lots of great stuff here this morning, Thanks!!
Let me try to respond to as much as I can.
First, LG, about MCD.
Your evening with MCD. You state that he asked you SEVERAL times if you were OK. You said yes. Was your tension that noticeable? Where you wound so tight, that you could not be the Bugsy that you are capable of being when Drac isn't within sightlines?
Not at all. In fact, I felt more relaxed than I have in a long time when Drac is present.
Maybe MCD is just a more considerate guy and CAN pickup on what your emotional state is, and with some knowledge of the sitch you are in, wanted to make sure that HE wasn't causing you MORE discomfort
I think that is on the money. He's also in similiar circumstances recently, so he has a higher level of consideration of this kind of thing than the average man on the street.
I appreciate your confidence in my not using MCD in this situation either. That is something that I am perhaps TOO sensitive about in that I know I'm not ready to 'date' anyone, and the idea that even anything casual could be misconstrued is a big concern for me. I can't stand the thought of hurting anyone else. There are already enough victims in this tragedy.
SL - How many times have I read this on the Forums?
Yet it is the Perfect reminder that I needed.
PM added the other perfect reminder -
Mimi,,,,,I think you are right about the darkness. However, one of these days the "We're just friends" line may be appropriate and I will most CERTAINLY enjoy the irony of it all.
He may be telling himself that you had someone else in order to justify his actions...BUT to see it in BLACK AND WHITE (LOL..no pun intended until I typed this) probably sent him over SOME edge...
I almost spit out my coffee this morning when I laughed out loud at that one!
So, does anyone have any popcorn left? Lexxxy, are you still sipping your Slushie drink? There's a specific reason that I am asking -
I need to go read the Email in my In Box from Drac that came about an hour ago and wanted to be sure everyone is stocked up first.
I'll be baaaaccckk after a brief pause for these commercial messages - - - -
As much as I love LG's advice to you, and as poetic-justicially as it would be, I'm with Mimi on the "we're just friends" line.
Dark, dark, dark.
Glad you had a good time and aren't letting yourself react (i.e., live and die) to what Drac did. What happens will happen.
It's a beautiful day out there today.
Edit: Cross-posted. I look forward to the update.
Ok, subject line of the email refers to his conference next week
It says -
"It was just explained to me today that we will not be back until the 25th Friday morning, keeping you updated.
Co-worker 'X' and his wife have offered to help with DSS in any way needed. They live in the same subdivision as I do and their daughter goes to summer school as well."
He had told me that he'd be leaving Tuesday and back Thursday night. Yesterday I told him I'd let him know about arrangements for me to keep both Ladybugs and DSS. I had not emailed him back about it yet.
Frankly, I was waiting to see if I'd hear from him first.
Amazing all of this DETAIL I am now getting about DSS, isn't it. I am pretty sure it was just the beginning of May when I was basically told that anything to do with him was NONE of my business???
I haven't replied yet - but am thinking of this -
"I've made arrangements for both kids during your conference. Expect you will pick Ladybugs up Friday night as usual from daycare. "
Thoughts? Comments?
heheheheheehehe
perfect response.
Poor Drac.
You're keeping him scrambling for reasons to contact you!
He probably spent all day thinking up that one.
What is he going to come up with next?
"Arrangements have been made for both kids during your conference. Expect you will pick Ladybugs up Friday night as usual from daycare. "
Even less personal.
"Arrangements have been made for both kids during your conference. Expect you will pick Ladybugs up Friday night as usual from daycare. "
Yeah, but wait a while before sending it.
Fox
Hi Bugs,
I am a little behind, just catching up on your thread....and just want to point out, a few pages back, you wrote this....
Because when I think TOO much about this
When I wonder what I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do
When I speculate on what he may or may not think
When I speculate on what he may or may not feel
I become AFRAID.
Afraid of getting sucked in only to be hurt again
Afraid of total and utter rejection
Afraid of being used
Afraid of doing a lot of work only to be back to square one
Afraid, Afraid, Afraid
I also feel like this sometimes, when somehow the focus is back on WS...and after being so long in Plan B, I thought I should no longer be feeling this way at all...thank you for putting words to these feelings and to help me see I am not alone and that these feelings are normal, besides being in good company, even though I don't wish these feelings on you, Bugs...LOL....and aiming to NOT focus on WS is the best remedy.
...I find it is also true that, with time, having to be in the presence of WS it is somehow less painful and not always a major trigger...only because maybe we're learning to give WS less power over us.
...but I have learned, when in doubt, DARK DARK DARK is the best route.... With Drac, if things are not well in lalaland, he may wanting to 'lean on you' more without necessarily committing to more.... but you already know THAT!
You are getting good advice. Look forward to reading your updates...and learn more. Thanks Bugs.
Morning all!
I didn't have time to post last night as I took Ladybugs to a small town picnic/parade last night. It's in the town where my Dad grew up. A small farming community where the parade has more TRACTORS in it than anything! ha!
Lots of childhood memories there for me. My grandmother was one of the organizers back then, I was part of the 'coronation' of the King & Queen when I was Ladybugs age (in a tradition with my 2 sisters having done it before me). Last night I even ran into a couple of classmates, a cousin I hadn't seen in years, and one of my high school teachers.
They throw lots of candy during the parade, so Ladybugs had a BALL. My family was there and friends with kids the same age, so when we hit the carnaval part of the picnic, it was Game On! I even rode the "Scat" with Ladybugs TWICE! Whoo hoo!
She did call Drac while we were there. I'm sure it wasn't easy for him to talk to her as we were standing in the middle of the midway at the time. Oh well, Ladybugs and I were just busy living our lives.
So, I did take my time opening the email and then responding. I was as brief and business like as possible - thanks for the suggestions, but I hadn't read them before sending the email. I didn't do quite as good as your suggestion, but I wasn't chatty in the email either. Within 5 minutes, I got the following reply from Drac,
"Thanks, that will be the plan unless something else goes wrong,,,I had all 4 tires replaced today. Thanks again."
If I allow myself, I can 'hear' the joking tone about the tires. I choose to ignore it.
So, that should be the end of all of this interaction and communication. That would be a GOOD thing, because it's too hard not to be sucked to wanting MORE. As we all know, right now there is nothing in the MORE he is giving that I want.
MCD called last night to ask if he won or lost our bet. I told him he'd lost since the email wasn't giving me any grief about his presence at the game.
So, on to another busy day. I'm letting Ladybugs sleep in since we were out so late last night. Tonight is our one "off" night of having anything to DO or somewhere to GO. I'm looking forward to some pool time and early to bed!
So, that should be the end of all of this interaction and communication.
We'll see. Keep your SHADES and CAPE handy...
So, that should be the end of all of this interaction and communication.
We'll see. Keep your SHADES and CAPE handy...
Yep.
So, that should be the end of all of this interaction and communication.
nope.
ummmm....no. Are you listening? LOL. He's scrambling to find another reason to email you today. I'm guessing something about DSS. An update on his counseling....signing him up for football....question about medication.....SOMETHING.
He's trying to show you what a good guy he is.
I think Bugsy has a banana in her ear, and cannot hear you Lexxxy. You may have to SCREAM
It's crazy how you are predicting this. Again, it shouldn't be funny, but it is.
JAAAAAMES! Where is that confarndent POPCORN!
Its going to keep ESCALATING.
First: Friendly
Then: Open
Then: Joking
Then: Reminicsing
Then: Flirty but joking (with denial-ability...)
As long as he doesn't get smacked down...he's going to keep pushing the door open a little further.
Bugs -- Ho is gone. There are unmet needs. He's trying to manuever you back into meeting those missing needs.
Even though we have the script and we know what is most likely going to happen.
It's still DARN fun to watch!
It really reinforces the theory of the "wayward script"
Fox
There is NoHo.
I just like to say that.
Fox
You all are killing me!!
- - I like saying that, too!
I did check my ears,,,,,Lots of empty space in between them, but I didn't find any bananas! I took the opportunity to brush out a few cobwebs.
Screaming is not YET necessary. I 'am' listening,,,,,,,,,,,,I DO see how you all have predicted per the Wayward Script.
Prior to Lexxxy's last post, I had intended to post this
About this -
He's trying to show you what a good guy he is.
WHY?
One the one hand, it seems fruitless to try to understand the mind of a wayward - - but as you all are predicting his actions based on the Wayward Handbook/Script, is there an answer to that question?
Then, Lexxxy beat me to the punch with the answer -
Ho is gone. There are unmet needs. He's trying to manuever you back into meeting those missing needs.
Here's the thing - - I'm going to be as flat out honest as I can be. I have just this moment acknowledge this to myself, so I hope that I can explain it.
Although I did not admit it, even to myself, I have been wanting the increased contact to be about ME. I wanted it to be about Drac transforming slowly back into DH. I wanted it to be about him coming to the realization that he WANTS BUGS, and working towards how to accomplish that, with the process including recognition and remorse.
That is still what I want.
So, it's not that I'm not listening. I think it's more denial because I want to avoid mentally setting myself up with thoughts and ideas about things that are not really happening.
Does that make any kind of sense?
And,,,,,,,,,,,for another dose of honesty - It is Very Very Tempting to allow myself to do things that will meet those needs.
Geez,, I feel like a total schmuck.
Geez,, I feel like a total schmuck.
But an honest schmuck!
That's what I love about you Bugs, you put it out there in truth. I can understand your feelings but girl, you know the dangers.
First: Friendly
Then: Open
Then: Joking
Then: Reminicsing
Then: Flirty but joking (with denial-ability...)
My ExWW to a
TShe actually made a comment about my bed the other day, cause you know if she has to drop off DS for some reason she just HAS to come in for minute, well I forgot I had our old head a foot board from the early years at my mom's and when I got my queen size mattress set I took it so I'd have a frame.
She looks at the thing and actually says, "Oh, WOW, I can't belive that baby's still standing! (wink wink nudge nudge)"
and yes, that's what she meant, she gave me the look when she said it.
I just kinda said yeaahhhhhh, riiiiigggghhht
took everything I had not to roll my eyes and shake my head
now I'm completely done, so this stuff does nothing more than amuze me, but I'f you're not completely there then this stuff will confuse you
so listen good to what these people are telling you
Your honest thoughts are what MANY of us think to ourselves, but cannot put out into the open.
If I was to be completely honest - I want to see the same from WxH.
We all still have abandonement issues, as hard as we try personally to recover.
It's there, laying underneath the surface. The need to not feel as though we were DISCARDED.
We still have the WISHES, even though we know the DANGER.
Thank you, Bugs, for saying it so well.
Fox
Oh, BC.....what a piece of work your EX is.
You are a good man. She's a fool.
Fox
Oh bugsy girl!
That is why I wanted you to start thinking about all of this.
I want you to be PREPARED for it, so that you react in a way that gets YOU what YOU want.
Drac's going to escalate contact. No doubt about it!
And it would be easy for you to entice him back with your incredible Plan A instincts. So, you would get him back. But not in the MB way.
His route to recovery would look different. I think he would GET to the MB way but from a very different path.
I think once he was "back" with you he would feel safe enough to come around to the MB principles. I think you would eventually get the remorse and regret and an apology. And he would want to make things up to you. But I don't think he will start from there.
So that has been my question to you. Can you take that other path?
Yes, PM, I do know that there is danger.
Thank God for MB, otherwise I am sure that I'd be smack dab in the middle of meeting ENs for him with no clue of the Drac-infested waters I was swimming in.
Although I am glad to know that others are somewhat benefitting from my honesty, it really is self serving. I know that if I don't lay it all out there
#1. I won't LEARN anything
#2. I won't DEAL with those feelings the way I need to
#3. The advice I get won't help me as much if I were being less than honest
Just the other day I was talking to 2 of Drac's Aunts - - both brought up the question of if I'd take him back. (while I was tempted to wonder why they would both ask me the same question, I didn't ask or ponder too long on that thought)
I gave them the same answers I've always given. In a nutshell, IF he were the man that I married, and he were truly remorseful and willing to build a new marriage with me, then yes, I would. However, he isn't that man right now.
BC, I'm with Fox, your Ex certainly is a fool.
now I'm completely done, so this stuff does nothing more than amuze me, but I'f you're not completely there then this stuff will confuse you
so listen good to what these people are telling you
Confuse me? Oh yeah, I am confused. I totally own up to that for sure!
I can't imagine being able to deal with Drac coming in my house, let alone making inuendos like that! I don't know what I'd do, but I know I wouldn't be amused!
I really am trying to listen and hear the good advice I'm getting.
JAAAAAMES! Where is that confarndent POPCORN!
Heh.. the kids ate it all over the weekend!
Sorry I haven't been around much to enjoy the entertainment of seeing the back end of the Wayward Handbook. I took Monday and Tuesday off with DD and DS as it's one of my extended parenting time weeks.
Still trying to catch up, but wanted to look in on ya Bugsy.. you seem to be doing very well and certainly are articulating some of those 'just under the surface' feelings much better than I think I could.
I really don't know exactly what I'd do were I in those Goddess shoes of yours.. but I do know that Drac KNOWS the path back, you've told him.. My personal instinct is that these are boundaries that you've set.. if you let him bypass them now, what's to stop him from feeling like marriage/relationship boundaries are any less obscure.
This from a guy headed towards a messy D with WW.. so take it with some butter and salt.
Lexxxy,
That is why I wanted you to start thinking about all of this.
I want you to be PREPARED for it, so that you react in a way that gets YOU what YOU want.
Yes,,,,and do you have any idea how much I appreciate that?
Drac's going to escalate contact. No doubt about it!
My doubts about that have done nothing be steadily decline with every passing day! Lexxxy gotta love being right??!!
And it would be easy for you to entice him back with your incredible Plan A instincts. So, you would get him back. But not in the MB way.
I'll agree that this may be possible,,,,but this below is the rub now isn't it?
His route to recovery would look different.
And the million dollar question is about this
I think he would GET to the MB way but from a very different path.
Because getting to the MB way is a must.
I think once he was "back" with you he would feel safe enough to come around to the MB principles. I think you would eventually get the remorse and regret and an apology. And he would want to make things up to you. But I don't think he will start from there
The key here being is that he won't start from there - - I know that you are right on the mark with that.
So that has been my question to you. Can you take that other path?
This question has haunted me for days.
I hope I don't sound totally off the deep end here - but yesterday I was spending time in prayer & study. The question came to mind - would I knowingly suffer through some type of physical trama/hardship IF it would restore my marriage/family, but in a new/better situation?
And my answer was Yes, yes I would.
So, is this question you pose, Lexxxy, all that different? I think not.
Am I willing to take a very dangerous, potentially harmful, personally excruciating path on the chance of getting this new/better life?
Answer
I'm not 100% saying yes, but I am honestly considering it.
There's lots of things to consider - and I'm seriously thinking about them all.
James - your point (along with others that have already been made) about boundaries is just one of those.
This would have to be something carefully executed. It would be something I would have to be able to turn around on a dime, so to speak. Carefully, slowly opening the door, but at the same time not hesitating to close & lock it to protect myself.
I'm not yet able to articulate the complete thoughts on this, so for now I'm going to leave it at "just considering".
I know you all probably think I'm nuts for even thinking about it,,,,,,,,,,,and I expect to hear from each and every one of you with your cautions and warnings.
I welcome them all! As I said, nothing here is 100% (other than I am 'considering' things)
I gave them the same answers I've always given. In a nutshell, IF he were the man that I married, and he were truly remorseful and willing to build a new marriage with me, then yes, I would. However, he isn't that man right now.
Bugsy, I can hear in your posts how much you want your husband and family back, and I want it for you, too. But I want it to happen in the right way, so that you and LadyBugs and DSS all get what you deserve.
I'm afraid you might jump at an opportunity before the time is right. I don't mean to take anything away from the advice you're getting here--I think it's all good. I would really like to see you consult with the professionals, though, and get a plan for how to proceed.
Have you thought about a consult with the Harleys?
Hey SD,
Bugsy, I can hear in your posts how much you want your husband and family back, and I want it for you, too. But I want it to happen in the right way, so that you and LadyBugs and DSS all get what you deserve.
Thanks so much,,,and that is what I want, as well.
I'm afraid you might jump at an opportunity before the time is right.
Exactly. Rest assured, there will be no Jumping into Drac-infested waters right now. I am only considering the cautious consideration of things right now.
Yes,,,I have thought about a consult with the Harleys. It is in the front of my mind and should things progress, I will likely do that.
I am still working on how to articulate what this "consideration" really looks like. Part of it is a 'watch and see' on what comes from the Drac camp. Part of it is also, the question of how do I want to respond - - IF I choose to respond at all in any way except a strict Plan B.
LG made the point - and it is EXCELLENT - that I don't too easily throw myself out there. It would be a setup for disaster is soo many ways! That's not the kind of thing I'm considering.
I'll keep thinking about how to explain it better...........
I don't know how come Drac's path is seen as any different.
IMO, he's following the script.
The problem in your situation, as I see it, was the ability for him to obtain a PROMPT divorce.
I would suspect that the OW wanted to get married and he did not.
After living with her in PLAN B, the FANTASY BUBBLE BURST BIG TIME and he had NO PLANS to marry her...BECAUSE (DRUM ROLL) he still has FEELINGS for you....DUH...
IMO, the KEY THING for you to do is to remain in a DARK PLAN B...
DO NOT GIVE INTO HIS ATTEMPTS TO CONTACT YOU...
HE HAS TO SUFFER!!
He has to YEARN for you.
I BELIEVE THAT WILL HAPPEN!!
Just like MM told me..any MOMENT that you meet ANY NEED will lessen his SUFFERING and YEARNING!!
I've ALWAYS identified with your MANAGEMENT of your FAMILY'S LIVES and that's one of the major things that my H missed about ME..he WILL be SEEKING out YOUR HELP with this and has SORELY MISSED IT...
He will want your HELP without making the necessary changes and commitment to YOU...DON'T ALLOW THIS...
What I am saying is..MAKE HIM COME CRAWLING and I think he will...
IF YOU REMAIN DARK AS NIGHT..with SHADES and BATMAN CAPE!!
Am I willing to take a very dangerous, potentially harmful, personally excruciating path on the chance of getting this new/better life?
If that path is the only option open to you and Ladybugs, I say in all honesty, forget about him.
YOU can get a new and better life without that kind of drama filled crap.
Honestly Bugs, you did not come this far to walk a path like that.
What has changed about Drac? He lost his HO a couple weeks ago and now he is scrambling around for EN's to be filled? And guess which specific EN that would be.
Has he even gotten close to rock bottom?
If you stay in a completely dark Plan B for another six weeks and in that time he finds HO2 what would that tell you?
These are just my opinions Bugs but I really feel you should just stay the Plan B course. He has a long way to go before he even resembles a man worthy of you.
AND IF HE DOESN'T COME CRAWLING..
OH WELL, you and the LADY will continue to LIVE YOUR LIVES!!
Still trying to look in on ya Bugsy..
I really don't know exactly what I'd do were I in those Goddess shoes of yours.. but I do like messy butter and salt.
learned that from Michael Moore
Welcome back James
Still trying to look in on ya Bugsy..
I really don't know exactly what I'd do were I in those Goddess shoes of yours.. but I do like messy butter and salt.
learned that from Michael Moore
Welcome back James
Thanks BC... I think.
AND IF HE DOESN'T COME CRAWLING..
OH WELL, you and the LADY will continue to LIVE YOUR LIVES!!
THIS is what I'm saying. YES YES YES. Mimi has it, girlie. I made the decision to go the DANGEROUS route, Bugsy, and PWC did exactly what he wanted. He got the home, the kid, the financial freedom and ignored the heck out of me.
IMO, the dangerous route is not worth it.
I would rather die the death of a thousand cuts, while submerged in rubbing alcohol, than to go that dangerous route.
Wait for him to come to you. He MUST yearn for you, and really WANT you, not just NEED you, but WANT you. Wait for that.
I agree with Guy. If Drac shows POSITIVE signs of giving in to the recovery process, consult the Harleys first.
Have you consulted with the Harleys before? I can't remember.
If you can afford it, I would do it now.
The Harleys do this for a living. They will be able to tell you what positive signs of recovery look like. They will be able to tell you what withdrawal looks like. They will be able to tell you how to react, what to say, all of that stuff. They will understand his motivations and actions and statements better than he does and can help you figure them out, too.
Thanks everyone for your posts!
My mind is a whirl with so much after reading some great posts. Excellent points all around.
I think I'm going to grab a bucket of popcorn,,,extra on the butter,,,,and sit back.
As Chris points out, what has changed?
HappyHoHouse is now HappyNoHoHouse.
Drac is opening up and playing Nice Drac.
Still Drac.
Yet,,,,,,,,,,the subtle (or not so subtle) changes in Drac's communications have me wondering/thinking/hoping.
Yes, I want him to WANT me, not just need me. Yes, I want the whole package.
So, while sitting back with my greasy bucket of popcorn and a huge slushy drink, I will be ever watchful and hopeful.
No changes are immediately imminent - but they are still running around in my head.
SD- you make some good points about talking with the Harleys. I just wasn't sure if there was enough activity on Drac's part to proceed with that call just yet.
As Chris pointed out, there could very easily be Ho2 already in the works, so why spend the $$ on what was only my hopeful imagination?
Your point about their being able to give me the signs, as well as some of the behind the scenes wayward thinking makes a lot of sense.
Thanks again.
Yet,,,,,,,,,,the subtle (or not so subtle) changes in Drac's communications have me wondering/thinking/hoping.
You don't need subtle changes in Drac. You need PROFOUND changes in Drac.
Subtle is building a sand castle on the beach. Profound is the breakup of Pangaea.
When he is willing to try to move continents for you.... well.....maybe.
Hi Bugs,
Your getting great advice... and I think you are doing great in taking it all in, digesting it, evaluating it, getting prepared and being alert....should the right 'signs' come up... I believe you will be ready to handle it whichever way it needs to be!
....and yes, I do believe Drac's 'attempts' will escalate... and you will be prepared...
...in my case, WS has attempted numerous times to 'charm' his way into getting me to do friendly co-parenting and maintain R with OP....it's hard to resist, unless you recognize the tactics for what they are!
Good luck.
I just wasn't sure if there was enough activity on Drac's part to proceed with that call just yet.
I didn't really either until Lexxy and LG started hammering it, but I don't have any reason to doubt them. I just want you to be as prepared as possible.
Bugs,
I consulted with Jennifer a few times last year when we were trying to recover. WH did not talk with her - thought it was hogwash.
Anyway, she and I decided that if my WH ever decided to really recover that one of my conditions was that he had to call her first and she would assess whether or not he was serious. That was before he fled the state for good... Oh well....
Anyway, I'm sitting back with my tofu chips and green tea waiting for the show to begin. Just kidding. I have a sh1t-load of candy here that I can't wait to get started on. Let's finish with the previews and get on with it now.
Anyway, I'm sitting back with my tofu chips and green tea waiting for the show to begin
I almost spit out my Chardonnay on that one! Glad you followed up with the big bag of candy admission! I don't know that tofu is Goddess fare??
I am not sure what (if any) real
showthere is going to be around here. It might turn out to be a whole lot of hype for nothing more than what turns out to be a total Flop! The critics are still out as the trailers aren't even complete yet!
Chris - there
wasa time that Drac would have moved continents for me,,,,,,,,,,,,
But I'm not going down the days of what WAS. Gotta deal with what IS.
Really, SD, I so appreciate the fact that everyone here is interested in my welfare and making sure I am "prepared".
Chai, I also consulted, but with Steve last year. In fact, Drac did one session with Steve, but was too far gone to believe that the path back was possible with all of the fog that was in his view. He followed along, and even agreed with a specific line of logic that Steve set out on how our M could be recovered. He just had gone so far that he couldn't/wouldn't make a change in his direction.
I do have a tiny hope that there were tiny seeds planted from that one session that may be slowing growing despite Drac's lack of care/attention/feeding of those seeds.
Ladybugs lost her game tonight, but did have a couple of good hits. I hadn't even noticed that Drac had arrived at the game, DSS wasn't with him again. He sat behind and over from me (away from my sight line to the game), so that I didn't see him until Ladybugs ran over to him and I looked to see where she was going.
I didn't look at him or catch his eye in any way the entire time. I did look like the 'Coaching' Goddess tonight in shorts (a tad short, too) and t-shirt.
I almost laughed out loud when my cell phone rang during the game and it was Drac's Dad,,,,,,,,,,just calling to see how I am doing??!! We haven't talked in a while, but I was surprised to get his call. I have always been the one to call him. We chatted for a couple of mintues, but he said we could talk later since I was at Ladybugs game. I am sure Drac would not like it if he knew that Dad was calling me.
Ladybugs is spending the night at a friend's house. Her friend played right after her, so she just stayed there after her game.
MCD called tonight to let me know that Ladybugs favorite singer (Kenny Chesney) is going to be on one of the morning shows tomorrow. He asked AGAIN if I'd gotten any grief from Drac about his attendance at the game the other night. He continues his disbelief that there has been none - - - He said he got a look at Drac and that he looked 'mad'.
Whatever. I haven't gotten any grief. No emails today. All is quiet.
I intend to go take a nice bubble bath with my next glass of wine and then off to bed!
Don't be fooled either about the reason for MCD's calls..but that's another whole CONVERSATION....
I'm sure MCD is a pretty genuine dude. He is obviously very thoughtful. I know I'm not a single gal and all, but nobody's callin me about cool stuff my KID might like. That takes effort, Bugsy. Real effort.
If you aren't gettin his vibe, you ARE deaf, dumb, and blind.
Much love. Have a good soak.
Don't be fooled either about the reason for MCD's calls..but that's another whole CONVERSATION....
If you aren't gettin his vibe, you ARE deaf, dumb, and blind.
Thanks ladies!! Well, I might have been out of the dating game for a while, but after last night's call, I am not TOTALLY clueless!
I know that this is going to have to be addressed,,,it's just a matter of when and how. He's a great guy, that's for sure. I just don't see it going anywhere beyond friendship. The biggest thing is I'm still too hung up on Drac and I have been totally up front and honest about that. Lots of other stuff to talk about in this regard - but it is a whole other conversation for the right time.
All quiet last night. Nice bath and bed. I even overslept! I really HAVE to concentrate on work today,,I've slacked a bit the last few and have lots of projects that have to be done today.
I found myself almost jumping yesterday each time I heard my email beep with a new message. I don't like that feeling. Too much attention to what Drac might or might not be doing. Not good.
So, today, gonna try to lose myself in work! First- a shower! I know,,,,just had a bath last night but I need a wake me up today!
Have a good one.
Well, just taking a few minutes to catch up around here and a quick post before putting Ladybugs and her friend to bed. Although I am sure they will be up most of the night!
Wish I had that kind of energy!
All quiet here, really. Nothing from Drac, as I expected. He got the co-parenting cooperation he was looking for to help him out and that was all it was.
I had forgotten that this week was the deadline for Drac's A to file some paperwork for his 'appeal' on the property settlement. My A sent me copies of what has been filed in stipulation of the actual court record.
She basically had to re-write the entire thing that Drac's A had done. His A is really kind of a loser,,,,,,I wonder if Drac has any idea. I'm certainly not going to tell him. For instance, in this paperwork, his A listed the value that is in 'dispute' as less than HALF of what it really is?! What a dumba$$.
Oh well, that works in my favor. I'd be curious to know how much of this Drac is really aware of or not. I know, I know,,not MY problem.
Ladybugs got vm on both his phones when she called him tonight. I am trying hard not to 'think' about that and the Ho2 I suspect about.
Where is that darn cape and shades? I gotta find them, get them back on, and get darker again. Darn email!
On a good note, I was able to actually accomplish things at work today, so that's a good sign of my getting back on track. Hope tomorrow stays the same,,,,,,,,,,quiet and dark.
Just wanted to pop in and say good evening.
You are doing a fab job, Bugsy. After email contact with PWC, if there is anything eventful, I need some time in the darkness to recoop. Lately, since I told him to stay out of the house and give me the key, he's been very short and sweet and all business with the emails. It has helped me tremendously.
Hi Bugs,
After email contact with PWC, if there is anything eventful, I need some time in the darkness to recoop.
Not a lot needs to happen before our thoughts are back focusing on WS....
SL's comments are ditto for me....so...I guess for a time, this is part of our 'new normal' that needs to be managed (rolling eyes icon if there was one - geesh I really miss them!)
SL,
Lately, since I told him to stay out of the house and give me the key, he's been very short and sweet and all business with the emails. It has helped me tremendously.
Glad you got that key back and you are getting a bit of peace. I find myself a bit out of sorts even with 'business' emails this week.
I just got one from Drac,,,,I couldn't sleep and while I was up, checked email and there it was.
Telling me that he's leaving in the a.m. as soon as DSS leaves for school for an annual 'biker' event he's been going to for the past several years. He then tells me he has a new cell phone that 'should work when out of town' and gives me the number.
I am wondering if this was a 'secret' cell that I am just now privy to having the #? Why did he tell me when he was leaving and where he is going? That hasn't happened in AGES.
I really would rather not know. Why do I even care that he's going to be looking at trashy women flashing their b**bs all weekend and doing Lord only knows what else with one or more of them? UGH!! Gotta block these thoughts outta my brain!
Think I'll try a glass of milk and a good book.
Luna,,,,thanks for the support, too!
Why did he tell me when he was leaving and where he is going?
I've been reading your thread for a while. Dont know if it will help you or hinder you, but my WH started doing that just before he came back.
Course I ended up in a 4 week false recovery, prolly my fault, so keep your boundries strong. It sounds like you do that already anyway.
I'm with lildoggie..
Sounds like Drac may still be reaching out. You're still his lifeline Bugsy. I mean, what if something happened to him out wherever he's going?
It's a comfort thing for him, and he probably thinks it makes him look like the 'responsible' guy.. letting the kids' mom know where he's going to be and how to get ahold of him.
You know this already but the correct response is none at all.. Just file it away and let it go.
You're tough as nails Bugsy, and your boundaries need to be too.. It may be an annual thing for him, but running off to be a big bad biker for a week or so doesn't scream a desire for recovery to me.. or much commitment to Ladybugs or DSS.. take it for what it is, don't dwell on it, and let it go.. just enjoy your time with the kiddos
The KEY is to STAY DARK...SHADES and BATMAN CAPE...
Remember what I said about the SUFFERING and the YEARNING...
Drac's moving from "friendly" to "open".
Hmmmmm what's next?
I suspect he'll be out of contact the next few days while he's out of town. Then you will see more of the same. He will try to tell you stories about his weekend. He will try to engage you with DSS.
Bugsy:
Over the weekend, you will get the Cell phone picture of Drac on the "Kenny Chesny" bike, for you to forward to Ladybugs.....
Just waiting....
You even got the number to his his new "secret" phone.
Guess what, you are now offically the OW to NOho.
Were is that CAPE!
LG
He is RELATIONSHIP-ADDICTED or whatever...
He does not like being ALONE/UNATTACHED...
He will TRY to USE you to MEET UNMET NEEDS...
He sees you as a viable option...
You know, one of the AVAILABLE OPTIONS...to RELIEVE HIS SUFFERING..
We are encouraging you to remain TOTALLY UNAVAILABLE..
In fact, NOW, it's OK for YOU to SEEM BUSY...with your own calender FILLED...
Bugsy,
I believe my sister is relationship addicted. She'll actually make a full blown relationship out of something in the infancy stages. Case in point, she JUST moved away from her fiance. Every day since then, she has been in contact with a guy that she and fiance hung out with. That 'guy' came up here for a few days, and they were inseperable.
She's already moved on (she claims she was not cheating on her fiance--but whatever--rolley eye). All that talk she had about getting her life together was [censored]. Her girlfriend mentioned that my sister said something about being IN LOVE with this new guy and ready for marriage. Oh, BTW, he's 25 and my sister is 39.
It makes me sad to see her avoid her problems. I feel the same way about PWC. He's a junkie. If it's not booze, then it's women. BLECH.
Hi Bugs,
...attempts by a WS at breaking plan B does require a lot of discipline to not 'engage' back...and it does mess with our minds and focus, as you can see..
.... in my case, WS was wanting to 'share' about the boys for the sake of sharing, as opposed to just passing on essential info. (I guess it's just not the same sharing about them with OP!).. also the need to discuss their education or coordinate our home routines, all for the benefit of the boys... oh, he was hitting some of the right buttons knowing how important the boys are to me, and I have had guilty feelings over it, but I also thought his attempts were more about enabling his laland 'illusion' of having two women fulfil his needs...
...when it persisted, I reminded WS of PBL terms (open for ANY discussion with him when he was ready to commit to N/C with OP and recommit to family)...and that usually did the trick... as my WS so far has not demonstrated any interest in meeting PBL terms, just wants to do friendly co-parenting, and so, we are now in plan D...
...in your case, Drac seems to want you more in the loop of his whereabouts... giving you more info. than needed... and so on, and as you can see, this will have the effect it's having on you, whenever Plan B is not as DARK as it can be, gobbling up 'brain' time, focus and attention...
At one point you may have to decide whether or not you will insist that Drac respect the PBL terms and you go DARK until he does, or as has been suggested, seeing that Ho is no longer in Drac's life, if you think Drac might be willing to commit to you but only over time... which, as many here have also pointed out, is HIGH-RISK for WS 'cake-eating', loss of respect and according to MB principles is not recommended due to the high risk of a false recovery
...personally, I haven't had to make such a choice, as OP in my case has never been 'out of the picture'...
...sooner or later, because I also think you can expect Drac to escalate contact in the near future, you may have to give him a clear indication of where you stand....I trust in your judgement now given your experience and knowledge so far of what either decision entails in terms of investment on your part...be it emotional, psychological and otherwise!
Good luck, Bugs.
You could just give him the PLAN B LETTER again if necessary...
IF..and a BIG IF..IF, you are interested at all in RECOVERY...
STAY DARK..as DARK as you can be...GO EVEN DARKER..NOW..
And have HIM be the one who is WONDERING and FRETTING about where you are and what you are doing...
From Mimi..who has learned how it WAS for a WS in PLAN B...WHEN the PB was having its effect...
From Mimi..who has learned how it WAS for a WS in PLAN B...WHEN the PB was having its effect...
I don't suppose you will explain a little further what it means when Plan B was having its effect.
Hi everyone!
Gee, so much here I want to respond to - - let me try to hit just the highlights
James -
You know this already but the correct response is none at all.. Just file it away and let it go
Well, I did fine with the NO response. I did fine with the file away. Working on the letting go. Stayed busy today to help with that part!
Lexxxy -
Drac's moving from "friendly" to "open".
Hmmmmm what's next?
I am somewhat apprehensive, yet somewhat excited to know,,,what IS next??
LG -
Guess what, you are now offically the OW to Noho
To quote SL - BLECH!
Mimi --
He is RELATIONSHIP-ADDICTED or whatever...
He does not like being ALONE/UNATTACHED...
He will TRY to USE you to MEET UNMET NEEDS...
He sees you as a viable option...
Yes, I see him at relationship addicted - - he does not like being alone/unattached. That is him to a 'T'.
But, seeing me as a 'viable' option,,,,in that regard it's just a stop gap I think.
SL
It makes me sad to see her avoid her problems. I feel the same way about PWC. He's a junkie. If it's not booze, then it's women. BLECH.
I'm sorry to hear that you are having to watch your sister do this. It is so painful,,,,,and the PWC. Yep, I think you have it right.
And DOUBLE BLECH on that!
Luna,
sooner or later, because I also think you can expect Drac to escalate contact in the near future, you may have to give him a clear indication of where you stand....I trust in your judgement now given your experience and knowledge so far of what either decision entails in terms of investment on your part...be it emotional, psychological and otherwise!
Wow! Thanks for having such GREAT faith in me! Maybe I'll get to believing all of that for myself, too!!
Mimi - My sister,,,my guide, my friend!
IF..and a BIG IF..IF, you are interested at all in RECOVERY...
STAY DARK..as DARK as you can be...GO EVEN DARKER..NOW..
And have HIM be the one who is WONDERING and FRETTING about where you are and what you are doing...
From Mimi..who has learned how it WAS for a WS in PLAN B...WHEN the PB was having its effect...
I know from reading your gift that you know if what you speak. As SL has pinted out though, it's hard for me to believe that any of this has any thing to do with my Plan B darkness,,,or his needing,,let alone wanting me.
So - - here's today.
Co-worker tells me that the word she heard in the grapevine is that Drac and the Ho are "having a hard time right now"
TM from Drac this afternoon, letting me know that the new secret phone is the only one that will reach him where he is for the weekend.
I pick up DSS, then Ladybugs and come home. Am cleaning the pool when Ladybugs comes running to say DSS has had a spill on his bike and has scraped himself up "bad".
Well, that he did. Gash in the chin. Trip to the ER. 5 stiches on the underside of his chin. It was interesting to see his face as we are registering - they ask me if I am MOM a few times and ask for my information. Without hesitation, I say YES I am his Mom and give my info.
He was a trooper. Of course, 14 yr old boys don't cry,,,but he was a bit nervous and I hope that I did a good job of helping him keep his cover.
As Drac is 4 hours away, we called him after seeing the dr. I didn't want to just call and 'worry' him with no information, and there was no way he could have been here in time to 'do' anything.
DSS got Drac's vm. Drac called back an hour later. I let DSS talk to him,,,,,,,,,,told him everything (though I had coached him on the 'facts' to be sure to relate & he practiced with calls to my mom and sis telling them about it).
Drac talked to Ladybugs, but did not talk to me.
I 'thought' about sending a TM to follow up, but there is nothing I can tell him that DSS did not already.
I did call FIL and let him know what happened, too. I'll perhaps update his comments later on Drac.
I am proud of myself. I kept calm. I didn't panic, or get upset or angry - - several OLD reactions to being scared. I was calm, quiet, reassuring, joking with DSS and Ladybugs (she was scared for her big Bro and said prayers in the car on the way to the ER - it was soo sweet).
And - I didn't cry at all! Had to protect DSS's image, ya know!
Now I'm having a chardonnay and they are watching a movie playing with the new kitties.
So,,,,,,,,,,thoughts on the TM from him? Do I send TM about DSS?
Or is silence golden?
As SL has pinted out though, it's hard for me to believe that any of this has any thing to do with my Plan B darkness,,,or his needing,,let alone wanting me.
This comes from Dr. Harley..the MBer's theory about PLAN B...not ME..
IF..a big IF...
You want a MAN (Drac or WHOMEVER) who will SEARCH HIGH and LOW for YOU..CROSS DESERTS.... SWIM OCEANS....CLIMB MOUNTAINS...
THEN..GET DOWN ON HIS HANDS AND KNEES BEGGING FOR FORGIVENESS..
NOT REALLY..but ALMOST...
GOT IT??????????
This is a WWMD moment.....
SILENCE IS GOLDEN....
AS GOLDEN AS the GODDESS
IF
That's a big word.
Ok, so here I do again. Honest answer.
I'm not sure IF I want recovery
OR
If what I really want is remorse and acknowledgment of the wrong,,the pain,,,,,etc etc etc
I belive I have time to think about it for a while yet,,,,
I belive I have time to think about it for a while yet,,,,
Or ask G-d to help reveal it to you and wait for the answer while you are silent.
Yes - - you are right on the money there, Queenie!
Thanks!
You taught it to me babe....
I still want that chardonnay, so instead, I'm dragging my sore big butt, down to starbucks to meet my sponsor and hitch a ride to a meeting.
Catch ya later...
Have one relaxing evening for me.
But IF you allow him to CAKE-EAT, you prolong and enable his waywardness....
Take this into consideration...
I believe in being PROACTIVE and PLANNING...
Hi Bugs,
But IF you allow him to CAKE-EAT, you prolong and enable his waywardness....
... not to mention the waste of brain cells on a WS!
Drac is HUNGRY for CAKE and he KNOWS how to get to BUGSY...knows just what to DO and what to SAY...he's on the PROWL..and will get off on knowing that he has had an EFFECT..is hoping that the CELLPHONE talk is working...YUCK...and it almost HAS..I mean, look at you, Bugsy. You CONSIDERED calling him on the phone when he threw out the BAIT...DOUBLE YUCK..
BUGSY..put up your guard..
YOU NEED a SHIELD along with your CAPE and SHADES...
At this point, Bugsy, I see plan B as a WIN WIN situation for you. The darker you are, the more your winnings.
So, put on those RayBan's to block out that Drac.
The fact that you considered TM'ing Drac when it was totally unnecessary is telling. Don't do it. I don't know why this test was placed before you this evening, but you have passed so far. KEep chuggin along.
Oh, hugs to DSS. He must've been really frightened.
Ooops, Bugsy considered TMing him...not calling him..
As my boys say: "An alternate means of communication"...
YOU, YOUNG FOLK, YOU...
(rolling eyes behind the SHADES)....
Hi Bugs,
The fact that you considered TM'ing Drac when it was totally unnecessary is telling.
Yep...I would agree...Drac is wanting to tempt you into stroking his ego, and see if you will find an 'excuse' to call him...DON'T!
It's a test in auto-discipline, and choosing the healthier route...DARKNESS!
Drac is wanting to tempt you into stroking his ego, and see if you will find an 'excuse' to call him...DON'T!
Luna:
I'm not disagreeing with you...cause PART of this IS about stroking his ego..ADMIRATION NEED..I'm a GOOD DADDY, etc., etc.
But I want to make sure Bugsy GETS this..
It's about MEETING HIS EMOTIONAL NEEDS...that's what he is NEEDING and WANTING from BUGSY..
I find it so INTERESTING how this is INDICATIVE of the HARLEY THEORY in ACTION...
Plus, DRAC, seeming to be quite a CASANOVA, is being SEDUCTIVE..taking the INDIRECT ROUTE at this...
Basically, it boils down to the OLD CAT AND MOUSE GAME...
Bugsy has to REMAIN the MOUSE...and the CAT is on the PROWL...
Morning!
Sorry I had to duck out last night - - DSS and Ladybugs needed some Mommy time.
So, let's re-cap the actual actions.
Thursday night email from Drac
Bug's response - Dark. No reply
Friday TM from Drac.
Bug's response - Dark. No reply
Friday night DSS stiches -
Let DSS talk to Drac.
No request from Drac to speak with Bugs
No TM or direct communication from Bugs to Drac - even though I was tempted because of it being an 'emergency' type sitch involving the kids.
I thought about the TM because if I were in Drac's shoes, I would be upset and worried - - I would want details from the adult/parent.
Then, I realized that Drac had the opportunity to ask to speak with me if he was THAT concerned. He didn't ask, so I guess it wasn't that big of a deal
Or
More likely it's another thing to 'blame Bugs' for - - That I didn't call him myself when it happened. Well, I guess I'll just live with that blame on my shoulders along with everything else.
Of course, if he really is so concerned, why isn't he here to see DSS? I notice he didn't jump in his car to drive home, now did he? Honestly, it's NOT that big of a deal for a 14 yr old boy to get a few stiches. But as a Mom, I doubt I could handle not being here a.s.a.p. to see for myself, but that's just me.
I did have a good talk with FIL. He asked about the kids, and specifically about how DSS is doing in summer school. Apparently Drac isn't sharing anything with him either. I updated him best I could. I told him that really all I could tell him was how things are when they are with me - and that is seems better with the Ho gone.
He said all he knew was that she was gone. Drac came to FILs to spend the night when she moved out. That's all he knew. I guess a few folks know about it at work. FIL commented that Drac needs to 'get himself straightened out.' I replied, "well, I just don't know what to say about that Dad." I left it at that and changed the subject back to the kids.
I am going to spend some time going back and reading all of the MB principles again. It's time for a refresher dose for me.
I do want that man who is willing to swim oceans or climb mountains for me. If it is Drac, then Plan B is the way to place myself in the right position to observe if he is willing/capable of trying to do any of that for me. Right?
As they said in Cool Hand Luke, I "gotta get my mind right". And as Queenie reminded me, I need to go to God with this and keep it where it belongs,,,, in His hands.
Today will be some yard work and house work. Later, taking the family to the races. It's going to be a late night! Maybe I'll fit in a nap this afternoon.
Mimi,
About this -
Basically, it boils down to the OLD CAT AND MOUSE GAME...
Bugsy has to REMAIN the MOUSE...and the CAT is on the PROWL...
I see what you are saying - - yet I see it as the cat just wants to possibly 'play' with the mouse, as there is no other entertainment with which to fill his time right now.
And
He's not on the prowl for real sustinance. He's not really looking for what is important to his existance in this prowling around the mouse.
And
What happens if the cat thinks that by the mouse staying completely hidden that the 'chase' isn't worth it?
Just some meandering thoughts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Hi Bugs and Mimi,
Basically, it boils down to the OLD CAT AND MOUSE GAME...
Bugsy has to REMAIN the MOUSE...and the CAT is on the PROWL...
I would agree....if OP is out of the picture... a VOID has been created for someone to fulfil EN...
Should a WS meet at least the minimum PBL terms: (1) N/C with OP and (2) committment to recovery (with remorse and regret to follow) before it's safe for BS to break Plan B? I think so.
Drac meets condition (1) by default... and not requiring (2) would be 'lowering' standards....and which I think is one reason why affairs happen in the first place...
...so I am with you MIMI.... no reading between the lines and making it easy for him... he needs to EARN his way back... show that Bugs is VALUABLE to him and be made to feel special, and anybody else just won't do ...
...because M recovery WILL require a lot of effort (at least that's what I have been told..LOL!)....so I say DARK is the route to go...
(PS: cross-posting happening on hot thread!)
Hi Bugs,
What happens if the cat thinks that by the mouse staying completely hidden that the 'chase' isn't worth it?
...I don't think it matters what the cat thinks...
...do you think you are worth the chase?
...if so, it's a risk I think you have to be willing to take...if you are looking for 'substance'...
Bugs,
I have been working in more detail through the last of my AA steps. If you aware please forgive me, or indulge me. The 11th step is sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with G-d as we understood him, praying only for his will and the knowledge to carry that out.
Lately I had been stepping up my prayers to G-d to bring WH down and have him be destroyed or hit rock bottom. One might consider that prayer a little too selfish. So one way my sponsor told me I could pray was.
G-d you know what I want, you know what WH needs, can you make them match?
This is a great prayer because we are being honest in our soul to G-d and yet we are seeking HIS will.
Just a thought.
Hey Luna!
The one thing I AM sure of is that I AM worth it!!
My weekend keeps getting better and better -
Ladybugs wakes up and tells me she has a 'bump' in her mouth. It's on her gum.
Abcess.
Called dentist and am taking her in this morning!
Let's hope that *I* am not next to fall victim to needing emergency care this weekend!
Now another dilema with what/when/how to tell Drac about this??
I'll check back later,,,gotta get ready to go.
Queenie
sorry I missed your post - -
I am sort of familiar with the steps, and I am SO proud of you for being where you are in the process. Good for you!
thanks for the prayer suggestion!!
gotta run,,,,,,,,,
Have an awesome day GODDESS
If LadyBugs winds up having to take antibiotics, that would be a good way to tell Drac, by talking about dosing and such. If there will be any aftercare that will need to go on into his visitation, that is when you tell him. Otherwise, it's not an emergency.
Now another dilema with what/when/how to tell Drac about this??
I'll check back later,,,gotta get ready to go.
First of all, sorry to hear about the LADY...
BUT, Bugsy, CHECK YOURSELF!!
This is NOT an EMERGENCY!!
Why was contacting Drac even a consideration?
If he was the father that he is supposed to be, he would be living THERE with you as a FAMILY. He would not be off on a BIKER'S whatever and you wouldn't have to be trying to figure this out. HE put himself in this situation. YOUR daughter is being adequately taken care of by YOU while he is out HOing around....
It's HIS RESPONSIBILITY... IF he were a GREAT FATHER...to be CONCERNED about how HIS FAMILY is doing in his absence and he would be DUTIFULLY checking on this situation...
It's HIS RESPONSIBILITY to be trying to figure out how to check up on you...
Let him REMAIN the CAT...YOU the MOUSE...
I think he is working his charms on you...you are seduced by that cellphone...or whatever...
CHECK YOURSELF, HON..he's still got his HOOKS in YOU...
I see it... as a "CAT AND MOUSE GAME" in which you are IN CONTROL and then YOU say:
yet I see it as the cat just wants to possibly 'play' with the mouse, as there is no other entertainment with which to fill his time right now.
This is what HE THINKS...but YOU know better what this is all about...
He's not on the prowl for real sustinance. He's not really looking for what is important to his existance in this prowling around the mouse.
YES HE IS... on the prowl for REAL SUSTENANCE. He definitely has EMOTIONAL NEEDS that are not being met. That is what WE KNOW 'cause we are EDUCATED about MBers' principles. HE DOESN'T KNOW why he's after you...
What happens if the cat thinks that by the mouse staying completely hidden that the 'chase' isn't worth it?
What causes US (I'm sure I must have done it) to give over so much POWER and CONSIDERATION to a WAYWARD. A WAYWARD is IGNORANT. YOU are the ONE with the MBers' KNOWLEDGE about all of this. I'm encouraging you to rely on what YOU KNOW about THIS STUFF..THIS PLAN OF YOURS....
YOU STAY IN CHARGE OF THE "GAME"!! DO NOT GIVE OVER ANY POWER WHATSOEVER TO HIM!! DO NOT GIVE ANY CONSIDERATION TO HIS THINKING!!
Just how HE can AFFECT YOU. YOU ARE AFFECTING HIM!!...DUH...YOU have a longstanding HISTORY with each other..YOU HAVE BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN THAT YOU HAVE BEEN RAISING TOGETHER...
The difference is that YOU KNOW HOW THIS ALL WORKS!! You have to BELIEVE in the MBers' THEORIES and PRINCIPLES because they are being EVIDENCED to a TEE in your situation right this minute...
Mimi,
Why was contacting Drac even a consideration?
The only consideration is to inform him of something that happened with his child. I was not thinking of calling him. I wasn't planning to contact him prior to the appt or texting him to ask his opinion while there or anything like that.
I was merely thinking out loud of the when/how and how much to communicate to him - as it
is something he needs to know about.
Ladybugs ended up having to have her tooth pulled. She was a trooper and so far, she seems to be just a-ok. I intend to let her tell Drac about it herself tonight. I will have to send him a copy of the bill which will also have the basics of the procedure on it.
I spent time while waiting at the dentist office re-reading again the MB basics and am digging out SAA later today.
I know he is looking to have his ENs filled. I know that we have the history and the beautiful children. I know that I have met these needs in the past and during the best times of our M, I met them better than anyone ever has for him in his entire life.
You are right in that HE doesn't realize these things. That's the part I struggle with - - - that if he doesn't realize it's ME that can do these things for him, then why would he give consideration to me or a possible 'us' at all?
The hardest part of this for me has always been to believe that I have any effect on him - - -other than in a negative way.
I know,,,,Waywards say the stupidist things, so why listen? I think it's just when their actions match their words, it is hard to ignore them completely.
I do not want to give up any of the personal power I have worked so very hard to obtain. Trust me, I thought of this during the drive back and forth to the dentist. I know how to bring up those feelings when I set my mind to it. I know how to put on my Diva Goddess persona!
I have the cape, shades, shield, , , and I think I have that great WonderWoman golden lasso around here somewhere!
I am waiting to see if Ladybugs hits the 'pain' wall here this afternoon,,,,,,,,,,as I am concerned with taking her to this race tonight. It's going to be a long time and a late night. Mom has already said we can cancel, but I don't want Mom to have to miss it. So, I am trying to think of alternatives in case Ladybugs isn't up to it.
Personally, I really don't want to go as I am exhausted. The
ER last night and the unscheduld dentist today has tapped me out emotionally!
Maybe I'll go lay by the pool for a quick nap!
The only consideration is to inform him of something that happened with his child. I was not thinking of calling him. I wasn't planning to contact him prior to the appt or texting him to ask his opinion while there or anything like that.
I guess you or I would have wanted this same consideration. I guess even though you two are DIVORCED, I'm still considering him to be a WS, meaning, PARENTING is not HIGH on his LIST of PRIORITIES. I don't know. This seems to be a lot of effort being put into showing him consideration. I guess I don't understand WHY as long as your LADY is OK. Are you falling into the COPARENTING SCENARIO as he has been wanting? Yes, you are COPARENTS but I didn't think it was at the level where you have to keep him abreast of everything that is happening, getting his OPINION about making decisions about a DENTAL VISIT. I DON'T KNOW...been a long while since our kids were little...
That's the part I struggle with - - - that if he doesn't realize it's ME that can do these things for him, then why would he give consideration to me or a possible 'us' at all?
He does KNOW that YOU can meet CERTAIN EMOTIONAL NEEDS. That's a FACT...given that you have had a LONGSTANDING HISTORY together.. That's what any of us in Recovery started with...this is NOT THE ISSUE right now...
He, being a WAYWARD, has to SUFFER..has to YEARN for YOU in order to be REPENTANT and/or SORRY about what he has done...That is a MAJOR PURPOSE of PLAN B. PLAN B is part of the MBers' PLAN FOR RECOVERY. It is the LAST RESORT...to make the BS miss you..as HARLEY says sometimes "ABSENCE DOES MAKE THE HEART GROW FONDER"..
HIS SUFFERING IS MORE LIKELY IF HE HAS NO ONE MEETING HIS EMOTIONAL NEEDS and he for sure knows that YOU are an OPTION..not KNOWING in the CONSCIOUS SENSE OF KNOWING. He's not going to be saying to himself: "Bugsy can do this and that...."
YOU JUST CAN AND DO..It is what it is...Heck, you want to communicate with him about Lady..that's the FAMILY COMMITMENT NEED...
I have the cape, shades, shield, , , and I think I have that great WonderWoman golden lasso around here somewhere!
GREAT!! I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being hard on you...I THINK YOU ARE DOING WONDERFULLY!!
Good morning!
Well a good time was had last night at the race, even though we left early. It was a good idea to leave early for all concerned. I think it was a strech for everyone considering everything.
Mom had a great time, which was the point of it all. She didn't walk through the "crowd" as she was afraid of getting bumped into. That would be very painful with her fracture still very new. It's going to take a total of 10 weeks to heal! So, we took her straight up to the suite and she stayed there - but was content with all she wanted to eat & drink along with her great view of the track.
Mimi,
OK. Are you falling into the COPARENTING SCENARIO as he has been wanting?
I'm trying not to do this any more than 'necessary'.
Yes, you are COPARENTS but I didn't think it was at the level where you have to keep him abreast of everything that is happening, getting his OPINION about making decisions about a DENTAL VISIT.
I didn't call to get his opinion - and the thought of contacting him wasn't about getting his opinion,,,,,just about informing. As you say, it was the thought of what consideration would I want/expect if she were with him.
He does KNOW that YOU can meet CERTAIN EMOTIONAL NEEDS. That's a FACT...given that you have had a LONGSTANDING HISTORY together.. That's what any of us in Recovery started with
Ya know, I hadn't really thought about it this way (at least not for a while). I think with my stich, I had mentally ruled out any 'real' hope in recovery to the point of also blocking out/forgetting much of what MB says about it and the path that leads there.
GREAT!! I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being hard on you...I THINK YOU ARE DOING WONDERFULLY!!
Whew! Thanks for letting me know! I 'was' kind of feeling like you thought I'd totally lost all of my Goddess powers!
So, I am on my way up to shower and get ready for church. After we will be having an outside day at home. Kids really want/need a swim day today. I need to mow the grass and then it's also to the pool for Bugs.
I really don't want to have to take them over to Drac's tonight! Well, I will be having them both this week, which is a treat that I don't usually get.
I get them both starting Tuesday night through Friday morning. We go Wed. to have DSS's stiches taken out. I have pics of the stiches going in and will have to get some of them coming out. One of these days I intend to start scrap books for both kids. Yea,,, when I suddenly get all of that 'free' time! ha! Maybe in about 20years!
Have a great day everyone
Whew! Thanks for letting me know! I 'was' kind of feeling like you thought I'd totally lost all of my Goddess powers!
NEVER, you are OUR PRESIDENT....
Which by the way, nice state of the union address. That sorta has gotten lost in all the "excitment".
Yep, today should be a relaxing by the pool with loving children around. In fact, I think I will take a page from the top GODDESS and do that myself.
As for the children, well it's best I am alone then I can really relax. Teenagers....
I think someone should one of these days write about about one of these days and make them self rich so they have the time for one of these days? Would you agree?
Have a good day, Madam Prez.....
Hey Queenie~
I exercised my supreme Goddess decision making powers today and deemed this relaxing day.
We went to church, came home for a quick lunch, then hit the pool for the afternoon.
The heck with the fact that the lawn needs mowed or laundry needed to be done. Further back on the list is the vacuming and dusting,,,,bathtub cleaning and toilet scrubbing!
We had a great afternoon, but all too soon it was time to take them to Drac's. We arrived a few minutes early, but he was there. SUV in the drive w/the tailgate up and garage door open. If he was out and about, I didn't notice.
On the way there, I did some makeup touches,,,,,at which time Ladybugs asked WHY I was doing my makeup,, was I going somewhere? I said yes. She said, "Oh, out with your girlfriends?". I simply said, "no", and the subject dropped.
I am now sitting in my living room on the lap top in the dark. My power went off, so I am hoping I have enough battery to finish this post! ha!
As someone bumped it today, I made a point to read the thread about boundaries again. Good reminders for me. As a matter of fact, before the power went off, I caught the end of "Pretty Woman". I never realized it before, but the end of that movie is a great example of setting boundaries,,,,,stick with me here.
He wants to set her up with an apartment, all bills paid, he obviously has 'feelings' for her and wants to take care of her. As she says, "It's a good offer" for a girl in her position,,,,but then she sets the boundary. She wants "The Fairy Tale". He says no, he can't do it.
They walk to the door. He asks her to stay the night - not because he's paying her, but because she wants to. Lord knows,,,she WANTS to - but she says "I can't".
She enforces her boundary.
She backs up what she said with her actions.
She walks away.
And then,,,,,
He comes to her. Ready, willing, and able.
THAT is what I am going to have.
No ifs, ands, or buts about it. That is the only way for me.
So,,, you all continue to hold my feet to the fire when I become weak. When I seem close to compromising,,,,,,,when I want to give Drac that inch of ground that he has not earned. Keep me on track!!!
So,,,, am sitting here hoping the power comes back soon - - before it becomes stifiling hot in my house!!
OMG..PRETTY WOMAN..the FAVORITE MOVIE of my H and the OW..you know the suave BUSINESSMAN with the HO,PYT...YUCK...
I knew Mimi was gonna lose it when she read that.
G'night ladies...
((((Bugsy))))
Took me a bit but I'm finally caught up on the weekend travails of one of our supreme GODDESSES..
I think you're getting plenty of wonderful advice but you already know that.
Somehow you keep notching up the respect and admiration you deserve for the strength it takes to enforce those boundaries right now. I read your post and often wonder if I'd cave in so much easier if I were in your shoes.
You're one strong woman Bugsy.. and you deserve the BEST.. no settling for Drac.. you want someone who is going to add to your life, not drain you.
Keeping you and the kiddos in my prayers.
Sorry for the trigger Mimi!!
Hey SL! Hope your weekend was good.
James, thanks for the support.
Ah, a new week begins. I am exhausted, as my power was out most of the night last night and it was hard to sleep with no air! I read a bit by candle light, but that didn't last long.
So, I ended up alone with my thoughts. Sometimes that is quite dangerous, but I avoided the danger zones for the most part. Only a little bit of time and brain cells were spent thinking of Drac. It was the dreams I had later that really got me.
Suffice it to say that in Dreamland, they were incredibly nice dreams - - but IRL, just a total fantasy. Dreams of recovery with Drac. A repentant Drac appeared and morphed into my former DH. I guess it's not a bad thing to escape into fantasy dreamland sometimes. Just as long as I don't waste too many waking hours on the same thing.
So,,,,,,,,,,I'd better get to work!
Have a great week everyone
Email this morning from Drac -
"I hope that someday when the children need to go to the doctor for any reason we are able to discuss the situation between us and not get the information from the kids.
DSS of course has no idea of the plan for removing his stiches, but Ladybugs explained that you plan to take him to Dr. 'x' on Wednesday. She also said she would not be going to "daycare" the rest of the wee that you all have plans. Could you fill me in?"
DSS most certainly knew the plan for his stitches being removed. He stood right next to me in the DR's office while we made the appointment!
There were many, many replies i WANTED to give. Such as "well, I hope that someday you pull your head out of your a$$ and apologize for the horrendous way you have treated me. Until then WHY would I want to discuss ANYTHING with you?
OR
"Yes, I'll be sure to discuss important things with you,,,, just the same way you discussed taking my kids around your HO last year when you affair with her started. And the same way you discussed having my kids LIVE with that same HO and her son."
OR
"the kids wanted to be the ones to tell you about their own events. They knew I was available if you had any questions or concerns, but as you did not ask to speak with me, I assumed you had none"
I replied in a short sweet manner,,,,, and STILL realized after sending it that I said TOO much!
My reply was
"DSS has his stitches removed at Dr x on Wed at x time.
Ladybugs will go with us. She will be at 'daycare' Thurs and Fri"
Now, there was no reason for him to need to know if Ladybugs was going to daycare or not was there? Oh well, what's done is done.
Next email from Drac -
"While DSS is at Dr's, can you get them to fill out his exam form for school? I can send it with him?"
I have not replied.
As much as I want to make that responsibility remain on his shoulders, there's really no reason I can't take the form and ask them to fill it out while we are there. So, I suppose I'll just reply "ok".
Geez, he's still a putz.
He's just trying to draw you in, Bugs.
Keep it dark.
He needs to take the steps necessary to EARN Bugs again. This isn't the way.
He'll keep trying different things. When he gets it right, he'll be rewarded.
I liked your responses (and had a few of my own!)...you did well by responding short and sweet. Maybe you gave him extra information that was not necessary, but he can tell when he ASKED for the information, you gave it to him. You are not WITHHOLDING, you are just not OFFERING either.
Did he get the necessary information? That's all he needs, he doesn't get to pick and choose HOW or WHO he gets it from.
I wouldn't reply to the request for the form at all. If DS brings it, the Dr can fill it out. If not, it's not your problem.
Fox
OH!!! I saw MCD on a movie this weekend. I totally thought of you!
Fox
What a PUTZ!
Your reply was fine. No more needed. Do not reply to the second email. There is no need. If he emails again, about the same thing, do not respond. There is no need.
Hee..hee..He was nervous about the kids spending time with you and MCD..IGNORAMUS...
Keep him NERVOUS and in the DARK...
ETA: Remember how we talked about him trying to keep you in that MOTHER ROLE...YUCK...
IMO, he remains SO PREDICTABLE...
Stay ahead of HIS GAME, PREZ...
I wonder if that is why DS is REALLY there. Undercover spy to the goings on at Bug's house?
Drac knows that LadyBug will talk with you if he asks anything. He may believe DS is on his "side". KWIM?
Fox
There were many, many replies i WANTED to give.
Oh, Bugs. I am SO right there with you. It's hard.
(((Bugsy)))
I haven't replied to the last email. It's hard for me, just in general not to reply to
anyone when a they ask me a question.
Mimi -
Hee..hee..He was nervous about the kids spending time with you and MCD..IGNORAMUS...
Keep him NERVOUS and in the DARK...
Hmmm, I really hadn't thought of his thinking in terms of my taking the kids around MCD this week.
He is probably hoping for the day that I do have someone around them so that he can put a check mark on his list of things that he feels he can now further 'justify' in his past actions with the HO - - never realizing that it's just not the same thing. As you say, Ignoramus.
ETA: Remember how we talked about him trying to keep you in that MOTHER ROLE...YUCK...
Yuck is right,,,,thanks for the reminder on that.
IMO, he remains SO PREDICTABLE...
Stay ahead of HIS GAME, PREZ...
Any sage advice in that area? I don't really feel like I'm ahead of the game. Most days I feel lucky to realize that there is even one going on!
I'm most unsure of what to 'predict' from him. It's the old forest for the trees, I suppose.
Fox -
I wonder if that is why DS is REALLY there. Undercover spy to the goings on at Bug's house?
Drac knows that LadyBug will talk with you if he asks anything. He may believe DS is on his "side". KWIM?
I never really thought in those terms - Although it has occured to me that it's funny how many 'detailed' things he's thrown up to me when normally DSS doesn't remember something you've said to him 5 minutes after you say it. Any information about what happens here is given at the specific questioning of Drac, that is for sure. DSS isn't the type to offer much information about anything,,, let alone many details. So, I suppose he is paying more attention to some things than 'normal'?
I'm sure if I asked questions, Ladybug would pony up with all sorts of stuff. I just don't ask - either of them.
I'm SURE that he ONLY asks because he HAS to in order to know anything about 'the kids' as I don't talk to him being the mean & horrible of a mother that I am. Poor Drac.
SD - - Actually, it's been a while since I've thought of things along the lines of what I'd LIKE to say in these instances. Knowing that none of it would do any good, I really let most of those thoughts float away. For some reasons when these came to mind they were too heavy & strong, so I had to write them down before letting go of them.
I also had a fleeting "I wish" thought - - that the WS could understand that the necessity of Plan B is due to their actions, not ours. That it's not a punishment or manipulation or due to bitterness. It's simply self preservation for the BS and actually a way to keep away the bitterness.
Bugs,SIGHS and moves on from those thoughts for today.
Bugs:
You received an email from Drac that said:
"I hope that someday when the children need to go to the doctor for any reason we are able to discuss the situation between us and not get the information from the kids.
DSS of course has no idea of the plan for removing his stiches, but Ladybugs explained that you plan to take him to Dr. 'x' on Wednesday. She also said she would not be going to "daycare" the rest of the wee that you all have plans. Could you fill me in?"
What if the children had these issues while they were in HIS care?
YOU would have asked to speak to DRAC. Plan B be damned. You wanted all the info.
That's a MOM for you. Your concerned. YOU WANT THE FACTS.
Yes. He's WW. And unrepentant about it. And this isn't about establishing co-parenting roles.
He could have called YOU back. Asked either of the two children to hand the phone to you. He COULD have done all of these things. You could have just made the effort. And since Plan B is elastic when its something that you need, and can justify, in this case, he called you out on it.
Of course DSS KNOWS what's happening with his stiches. Doesn't mean he had a clue 5 minutes out of the Dr.'s office. "That's Mom's job, she will handle it." That's what DSS was thinking. And if it had happened at Drac's house, and YOU wanted to know when the sitches were coming out, DSS would have thought the same thing "Dad is taking care of it." That's ALL that is in his head.
Sorry. If the roles were reveresed, which there may have been an episode like this on your thread already, DRAC would be getting killed for not doing it YOUR way.
Am I being harsh? Yes. Do I mean to be? No. I'm not advocating co-parenting. Drac isn't worth that. However, under your care, his son and daughter both went to emergency Dr. visits. No matter what, he deserved a phone call, detailing what happened and the future plans. Even an extended VM, if needed.
It isn't about being DARK. It's about at least respecting his right as DSS father. It doesn't mean firing off a 2 page letter when there is a scraped knee. But a visit to the Dr's office, certainly rises to the occasion.
YES. Drac withholds pertinent info about DSS school studies, etc. from you. You can rise above his petty actions to do better than that. He amy still blame you for global warming, and anything else he can stick on you, but that's ok. You establish the higher ground, and stick to it.
NOW.
Your first response? Good. Nothing you could have done about not filling him in on Sat/Sun. He sent the email first thing, and the time to have been FIRST passed.
You didn't need to rise to the bait, and you had no reason to answer/argue/discuss his reactions to it. He COULD have done a couple of things too, and chose not to do them, either.
Your second response? None. Just like Fox said, if DSS brings the form to the Dr., then the Dr. can complere it. Otherwise, Drac to can get it done later.
As Lexxxy said, Drac will try to be a little more "Open".
The second email was "open"
As harsh as my assessment was of THIS particular incident, the rest of last week you have done fabs. Drac is poking around your tent, trying to fit a nose under the tarp. He NEEDS to DO MORE than that.
Do you have a copy of your Plan B letter?
BTW, when is the golf tournament?
LG
I don't understand your point, LG. I don't consider those situations to be EMERGENCIES.
IT IS ABOUT BEING DARK!! There's no sort of, kind of PLAN B...
He CHOSE this ROUTE to not be with his children and needs to suffer the consequences.
IMO, DRAC and BUGSY are not on EQUAL FOOTING with this.
BUGSY is already on HIGH GROUND and he is DOWN BELOW...way below...he is not a NORMAL, TYPICAL DIVORCED FATHER!! He ABANDONED his FAMILY for ANOTHER WOMAN...
LG,
I have no arguement with your assesment of things. None at all. Virtually every point you make, I had thought of and I don't disagree.
Frankly, I thought he would ask to speak with me on the phone after talking to the kids and I was prepared to do it. While not a life threatening emergency, I would have wanted to talk to the adult (Drac or whoever had them in their care) to get the details.
I didn't mean to intimate that it was DSS's responsibility to remember the details of the appointment. As you say, in his mind it was handled by Mom. It is just curious that Drac gets details about other minor things out of him but wasn't able to get any info about this? It seems a bit 'curious' to me.
But, that isn't the point.
Bottom line honest - if I were in his shoes, yes I would expect more than what I gave.
Nothing you could have done about not filling him in on Sat/Sun. He sent the email first thing, and the time to have been FIRST passed.
You didn't need to rise to the bait, and you had no reason to answer/argue/discuss his reactions to it.
Those were really the things I was thinking of when I did reply. A very big part of me wanted to 'explain' or even to apologize for not getting him details before he asked. But as you say, the time had passed and the rest would have been pointless.
The second email was "open"
Hmmm, I simply took it as it an opportunity to get some burden off his shoulders. It lends the question of how to evaluate 'open' vs anything else. I think the standard probably is the question - Would he have communicated this if it were still HappyHoHouse? This one is a maybe/maybe not in my mind.
I do have a copy of my Plan B letter. I just found it in my copy of SAA. When I found it, I had a flashback to the last time I refered him back to it and his cold, angry response. It really hurt. He just views it as my telling him what he has to do and how to live his life. I guess he will always view it that way unless there is a change from the wayward mentality.
Drac is poking around your tent, trying to fit a nose under the tarp. He NEEDS to DO MORE than that.
Yep, and I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
Golf tournament has been moved to the fall. I think it's now in October. Last year we had to re-schedule due to weather and ended up playing in Oct (I think). Everyone much prefered the cooler weather. July in Missouri isn't just hot,,,,it's that lovely HUMID weather where just stepping outside you get soaking wet with sweat. Yuck!
Mimi,
I know that LG is coming at this from the position of being a caring father - - something that is in question in Drac's case, but in his way I know Drac does care very much about his kids.
He doesn't see the damage path of his actions,,,,that doesn't mean he doesn't love them.
I'm not giving him a pass. Don't get me wrong on that at all.
There are times and situations where it is needed to give him information.
The When and How is the hard part.
What consititues an emergency?
The fact of the matter is he was 4 hours away, so calling prior to or during the visit made no sense. He couldn't have been there if he had wanted to be. It just wasn't possible. And 5 stiches were not life threatening.
After the fact, he did get the information. Yes, DSS wanted to be the one to tell him.
Should Drac have asked questions and talked to me? In my mind, I can't believe he didn't insist on talking to me. I would have if the roles were reversed. Part of this IS the difference between Moms and Dads. Frankly, if it had been Ladybug, I would have jumped in the car and been there as fast as I could. That's just me.
I sent the paperwork from the ER with DSS last night, so Drac did have the information on the situation and what to watch for during the healing process. The fact is I could have and honestly feel I should have sent a brief email about the follow up appt before he had to ask. It didn't need to be long, but he should know the date/time of the follow up.
Now he does.
Life moves on.
I'm sure if I asked questions, Ladybug would pony up with all sorts of stuff. I just don't ask - either of them.
Dollars to donuts DRAC isn't restraining himself in this area. I'd be careful what you reveal to the kiddos, as it's likely to get back to DRAC. (i.e., does your mom know that NoHo is gone? what'd she say?)
As to communications re the kids... he is entitled to know when there is an emergency. The method of delivery of said information should have been spelled out in your decree. If not, I would continue with the bare bones stuff.
DRAC: "It would be nice if...."
BUGS: _______________________________________________ (can you hear the silence?)
You handled it the way you handled it. It's done. You learned what needs to be done in the future (follow up info about return visits to the doc, info about medications and such in an email or TM). DSS talked to his father while at the hospital. Good stuff. In a REAL emergency, I'm certain you would be on that phone lickety split relaying info to Drac, right?
No need to beat yourself about the head with this. Onward and upward.
I'm not beating myself up about this. I knew already what to do, I just didn't get it done. I am aggravated with myself for not just getting that email out last night before the power went out. Oh well.
Just came in to cool off from mowing the grass,,,,,,GEEZ it's hot!
Hey PM!!
I'd be careful what you reveal to the kiddos, as it's likely to get back to DRAC. (i.e., does your mom know that NoHo is gone? what'd she say?)
Trust me, this is ONE thing that I've been VERY careful about. I say nothing about Drac in front of them, unless it's something that they've brought up in general conversation.
I have been particularly proud of the fact that I have not asked ONE single question about the Ho and her seemingly quick & quiet exit from their lives. In fact, it's been months since I've asked about anything to do with him or the Ho. Once I learned she was back in the picture and then moving in, I found I had no desire whatsoever to know one tiny tidbit. Anything I 'learn' from them comes out of them simply telling me what THEY have been up to.
I really, really would love for him to just say the words to me "She's moved out". But hey,,he never even acknowledged to me that she was moving IN! Heaven forbid I should know who my children are living with, that's not important at all??!! UGH.
Wonder what's going to happen when he gets to hear about my 'significant' other and our future plans? Do you think he'll expect to be told that our kids will have a new man living with them or will it just be a-ok for me to bring in anyone I want at any time?
Why did I get started on that old crapola?
I was getting so tired while mowing the grass - - it did cross my mind that it would be so nice to have someone to help shoulder some of the responsibility and work - - and then to relax with when it is all done. But then I told myself that it's going to be quite some time before that happens, so buck it up Goddess and get it done. So I did.
I think it's time for a nice relaxing swim and a frozen beverage with an umbrella. I'm thinking some chinese sounds good, too!
Bugs:
You sort of nailed it right here:
I am aggravated with myself for not just getting that email out last night before the power went out. Oh well.
You know you should have sent SOMETHING. That's not about breaking darkness, it's about keeping them in the loop like you would like to have been.
And what's a defination of a "real" emergency?
I KNOW you handled it beautifully on your part with the kids and the Dr, and had it under control, so it seems that it wasn't a "real" emergency. But a unplanned trip to the doctor's moves that from a weekend event to an emergency. With notification to the other spouse.
If it happened at Drac's, you would want every shred of info you could get, and deserved.
At this point, nothing more to do. I wouldn't send him an email saying that the power went out. Its done.
DRAC does not deserve anything more than Plan B. You stated how it has been for the past 7-8 months. DARK. And you have done it well.
Most of the things on your thread are just about the "musings" that you have about your life, where you are right now, looking back at the wreckage in Drac's past, and where you hope to go.
Your doing well. Very well in fact. Someone else, may someday, and soon, be riding the lawnmower for you. You will bring him a beer. And you two will both enjoy when when the lawn is donee. You can even stick an umbrella into your beer.
And then you will realize that God put you on this path to GET TO THIS PLACE. And its a better place than where you were.
And that is all that matters.
((((BUGSY))))
LG
I'm wondering what's up with you, LG?
What are you saying between the lines?
Why are you making this point about what Drac DESERVES from Bugsy?
I mean what's the BIG DEAL about it?
Are you encouraging BUGSY to MOVE ON and buy in to the COPARENTING deal and to see DRAC as an EQUAL PARENT now and NOT a WAYWARD?
Bugsy is evidently NOT FINISHED with DRAC, IMO, nor HE with her.
The HARLEYS recommend 2 years of PLAN B before moving on...
It's not that I wouldn't understand and accept you doing that, Bugsy.
But it's interesting to me what LG is trying to say at this point.
LG, if I may ask, if you are willing to answer: Where are YOU in this? Is there a part/parts of Drac that you can IDENTIFY with POSITIVELY and/or NEGATIVELY that YOU may be working through?
I was getting so tired while mowing the grass - - it did cross my mind that it would be so nice to have someone to help shoulder some of the responsibility and work - - and then to relax with when it is all done. But then I told myself that it's going to be quite some time before that happens, so buck it up Goddess and get it done. So I did.
Must be a good day for mowing. I did the same EXACT thing. I sat on that mower and thought about all the work I had to do, me, just me, all by my lonesome. Meh, I shrugged it off and got the mowing about 80% complete. I'll finish the rest later in the week. It was pretty hot here too.
I mowed, then me and DS got into the pool; he climbed in on the ladder, I did the ole CANNONBALL entry method. DS counts me in. I didn't care that my neck ached and legs hurt--it was a hoot!
I'm pretty interested in LG's take on this, too. I really don't think Bugsy did badly at all. DSS spoke to his dad from the hospital. So Bugsy didn't follow up right away with the date the stitches were to come out, I don't see that as EMERGENT stuff. She would have gotten around to it. Drac was made perfectly aware of the sitch, knew that his son was well taken care of. Hmmmm, I dunno.
Anyway, hope you enjoyed your umbrella laden beverage. I watched "Meet the Robinsons" for the fifth time and loved it.
I'm thinking some chinese sounds good, too!
I had Chinese tonight. It was yummy. Hope yours was, too.
Can you pay a neighborhood kid to mow the lawn for you?
Hey SL!
Wish I had a big ol mower like you! But, I'm glad I don't have that much to mow! My yard isn't that big to need a rider.
SD - yes, I 'could' get a kid in the neighborhood to do it. But having been 'farm raised', it's hard for me to pay someone to do something I am capable of doing. "USUALLY", I enjoy mowing the grass. Just these last few days, I've felt a bit overwhelmed with all of the 'work' there is to do. So, with the extreme heat yesterday I was just a bit down & feeling sorry for myself.
I mowed, then me and DS got into the pool; he climbed in on the ladder, I did the ole CANNONBALL entry method. DS counts me in. I didn't care that my neck ached and legs hurt--it was a hoot!
I do this stuff with Ladybugs, too! She loves it, and it's not stuff I'd done much in the past, which makes it even more fun.
Meet the Robinsons? Yep, I know that one. It's so funny how they get on a roll with a particular 'favorite' movie for a while. I can quote waaay too many Disney and Pixar movie lines! ha!
Ladybug wasn't very happy on the phone last night. She started by giving me a hard time about going to the daycare that Drac takes her to. As I'm having here a few days this week, I am taking here there vs where she goes when she is with me. She keeps saying she doesn't want to go to his place of choice and was really 'pressing' about it.
Apparently he's talked about what my plans 'were' or 'weren't' in front of the kids, as she mentioned something about how he'd only paid for Monday and Friday. Well, that's certainly NOT what he told me in his email - - when he emailed me about her staying with me, he offered up front for her to go there "because it's already paid for". So, I don't really understand what was going on with all of that. Perhaps it was his way of justifying asking what we were doing?? OR He really did only pay for those 2 days and wanted to know how many others he had to pay for (perhaps $$ is tight? although it can't be THAT tight if he could afford to go out of town last weekend!)
I think it's just that she wants to stay 'home' when she's home. She then moved into missing me so much, that she never wants to be apart from me, that she HATES this divorce stuff, it's not fair. I tried some reassurances of how Drac loves her and her response was "well he doesn't show it". I almost dropped the phone. I then heard that Daddy is mean, he yells at her all of the time. Then it was that he never lets her have friends over like I do when she's here - - that is most likely the 'root' of the rant she was on,,,,,,,,,and I'm trying to give Drac the benefit of the doubt as much as possible but D*MN it was hard.
It was all I could do to not get really upset and cry until I got off the phone. She's really been acting out more these last few weeks and is much more verbal about how she feels about Drac and the sitch. I'm watching carefully and won't hesitate to get into counseling if it continues. I am sure she's not telling Drac any of this stuff - - I've encouraged her to do so, but her reply is "I can't trust Daddy. I won't believe me." It just BREAKS my heart.
Then, email from Drac last night -
"Ladybugs told me that her private area is a litte red. I looked at it and she looks fine to me. Would you please check? She said it doesn't hurt or itch."
I don't know what that was all about, but I haven't replied. I think it goes without saying that I will, of course, check tonight.
WEll, I really, really need to do a much better job of accomplishing some WORK today than I did yesterday! Vaca next week, so there's some good incentive to get motivated!
Have a great day.
(((((Bugs and Ladybugs)))))
Aww Bugsy.. I know this is hard for you, believe me I do. I had a 'moment' much like your phone call with Ladybugs on Sunday with DS. I'll try posting an update here in a bit. I know you hurt for your little one, and I know that on some level it triggers those 'mad as hell' feelings and resentments about what Drac CHOSE to do to your lovely family.
Acknowledge your feelings for what they are, understand that this 'situation' is not YOUR fault, and that it isn't up to YOU to change it. Say the serenity prayer, and meditate on it.. let God bring you comfort, and KNOW that God loves Ladybugs and is watching out for her too. You're raising a wonderful little girl, and she knows this is hard for you, and believe it or not it's a positive sign that she's acknowledging these things to you.. she's talking about her feelings, and while you have to be careful about how you go about validating them, it's important to her to know that you understand and are there for her. I know you're doing this.. but keeping it at the front of your mind when dealing with these situations can sometimes be helpful.
Nobody chooses their parents.. and sometimes we get a mixed bag. I don't think anyone here, even recovered Waywards would even hesitate to start the argument that active waywards make good parents.. it just isn't true any more than trying to tell someone that an addict makes a good parent.. they don't.. they are the center of their own universe. Even Drac's recent emails insisting on the COPARENTING arrangement isn't about DSS or Ladybugs.. I look at them and I see these messages still being about him.. he wants the details FROM YOU because he wants BUGSY to put a little bit more fill dirt in the hole he's dug for himself at the center of his being.. to assuage a little morsel of the guilt he lives with day in and day out. It's stuff you OWE to him in his mind..
LG does have a point.. but what Drac is REALLY asking for is open communication, and you've got to make sure that your boundaries are firm and nothing gets over the wall. I agree that the best way to do that in cases like this in the future is to send the information immediately.. if you're headed for an unplanned visit to the Dr.. send a txt or something like :
Taking DSS to Dr. He fell and cut himself, may need a few stitches, nothing major.
If he needs more information DSS can tell him the 'story'.. he doesn't need to hear it from you.. oh he'll WANT to.. but DSS is more than capable of relaying the events in his life to his dad if he wants to. Any followup stuff can be handled just like you did, sending the post procedure documents with DSS's things when he goes home... you can pretty much at that point ignore anything Drac sends your way as you've already taken care of your end of things.. presto.. no anxiety and dealing with days worth of Drac grasping in your direction.
Just my $.02 adjusted for inflation.
Honestly though, I know you're struggling a bit.. but BE STILL.. you're doing the best you can.. the best you know how.
Do your best, let God do the rest.
Hey James.
Thank you so much! I actually have tears in my eyes after reading your post.
Acknowledge your feelings for what they are, understand that this 'situation' is not YOUR fault, and that it isn't up to YOU to change it. Say the serenity prayer, and meditate on it.. let God bring you comfort, and KNOW that God loves Ladybugs and is watching out for her too. You're raising a wonderful little girl, and she knows this is hard for you, and believe it or not it's a positive sign that she's acknowledging these things to you.. she's talking about her feelings, and while you have to be careful about how you go about validating them,I know you're doing this.. but keeping it at the front of your mind when dealing with these situations can sometimes be helpful.
This type of reminder and validation is exactly what we need to hear sometimes,,,thanks!
Honestly though, I know you're struggling a bit.. but BE STILL.. you're doing the best you can.. the best you know how.
Do your best, let God do the rest.
I'm trying very hard to do just that.
Mimi:
I don't give a darn about Drac.
I understand all day about being Dark.
In this particular case, and sorry, somewhere in her Divorce Decree, Drac has the right to know what going on with medical conditions with his children.
Bugs may have violated several parts of HIPPA laws when she took DSS to the hospital. All those relationships (if any) with DSS were legally severed when the D was final. I would recommend that Bugs get a written Medical Power of Attorney for any time in the future that DSS is under her care. Just to avoid issues until DSS is 18.
You don't see these weekend events as an emergency. That's an opinion. In Bugs own words she realized that she SHOULD have given DRAC more info. It was the RIGHT thing to do. Circumstances (the power outage) and Drac's unwillingness to ASK to speak to her, prevented that.
Mimi, if something had happened to one of your boys while visiting thier father during your plan B, (Auto and/or bike Accident) and they ended up in the hospital, even outpatient, you would be ENRAGED if WH didn't speak to you directly.
In many respects, Drac softpedaled his response to Bugs in his first email that morning. Drac has designs on thinking that he can lure Bugs back into his web. Therefore, Bugs should be hyper-viligant and step carefully. She may still just recover the H that she once knew.
And I have not advocated a Co-parenting role. That's where Bugs is AT right now. Will be for the rest of her life. She doesn't have to make it easy for Drac, and she hasn't been.
With Ladybugs last night? The fruits of all of Dracs efforts are coming home to roost. And Bugs gets to deal with that rotten fruit.
It's a tough one, Mimi. Bugs did well considering all the circumstances. Had she sent a 5-6 line email with a summary and then what happens next, which SHE knew should have been done, I would have never injected my POV. Drac is horrible. Drac is Wayward. But he's still DSS legal guardian. And Ladybugs father.
LG
Bugs may have violated several parts of HIPPA laws when she took DSS to the hospital.
Actually it would have been the hospital that violated
HIPAA, not Bugs.
Bugs;
I don't know what to tell ya. This sucks.
Everyone is telling you to stay in Plan B. But where I really struggle is that IMHO, you've never REALLY been in a true dark Plan B. There has always been too much email/text contact between you and Drac directly. There is too much visual contact at games and kid trades. There is too much info being traded via ladybugs.
Part of me wants to see you Plan A a little bit. But that's because it is my bias and belief that it is the only way Drac is coming back. I just don't see Drac ever crawling, begging, or remorseful. (Like I said before -- until he is safe.)
It sounds like you have made your decision that you don't want him back any other way.
So where exactly does that leave you?
So the way I see it, you're not really in Plan B...and you don't want to try Plan A. There is a little bit of a double standard going between what you expect from Drac, and what you are willing to give.
I don't think there is a MB solution out of this.
My personal vote is what I've told you before. Plan A a little. On your terms. And see what happens.
LG:
I've been trying to learn more about YOU. Why are YOU stressing this point? Why is this such a big deal to YOU? Curious...Speaking up for FATHER'S RIGHTS? Drac is not a NORMAL FATHER. He cares about his children's outpatient doctor visits but brings them into the PRESENCE of EVIL? Let's his daughter sleep in the same room with a STRANGE BOY, son of the woman who her FATHER is living with IN SIN? Has her saying I LOVE YOU to this EVIL WOMAN? To me, THAT and MORE that he has done on the weekend is MORE DAMAGING to his children than anything that happened with them physically this weekend. Did he check with BUGSY about that stuff? If it would have been me, not knocking you BUGSY..you're my girl..I WOULD HAVE DONE EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO KEEP MY CHILDREN AWAY FROM THE OTHER WOMAN...My children would not be spending the weekend ever in her presence..I know that was/is out of Bugsy's hands at this point..BUT..THIS IS WHERE I'M COMING FROM IN ALL THIS..I could give a HOOT about HIS LEGAL RIGHTS..I would not compare myself AT ALL to a WAYWARD...or a DIVORCED HUSBAND who left me for another woman...
Excuse my rant...
..
Now I'm better...
And BTW, I've always been kind of NUTS like this about my children..PROTECTIVE even to this day...MY HUSBAND knows full well that I would have GONE CRAZY..unfortunately..if she ever got around them...I'm not proud of my propensity for losing control of my anger..I'm trying to work on that loose fuse...I was EMOTIONALLY ABUSED probably also PHYSICALLY ABUSED as a child so this a MAJOR TRIGGER POINT for me..Bugsy knows...I've shared with her about this issue...
So what about YOU, LG? I was wanting to hear about YOU.
Mimi:
About this:
So what about YOU, LG? I was wanting to hear about YOU.
Not all that much to say.
It was my POV on this one issue for Bugs.
Everything else in your rant about what an awful guy DRAC is? True. No disagreement with me.
Flamingo says to this day that the Plan D from her would have been NUCLEAR. But that she would have NEVER interferred with my relationship with my son.
I'm glad I never had to test that.
Otherwise, I'm fine.
LG
LG:
So how come are YOU stressing this point? Maybe there's no good reason...but I'm still wondering..
So SORRY to read about the situation with FLAMINGO...
YOU BOTH ARE IN MY PRAYERS...
My personal vote is what I've told you before. Plan A a little. On your terms. And see what happens.
I see Lexx' point..BUT..before doing this, I would recommend consulting with STEVE or JENNIFER on how to proceed...
AND you must decide IF Recovery is what U want...
I think it's a POSSIBILITY..don't know the ODDS...given the SUPPOSED absence of the HO...
It does SEEM like DRAC is making OVERTURES towards YOU...
It's hard to know how to PLAY it...
You mean
There is a little bit of a double standard going between what you expect from Drac, and what you are willing to give.
When I first read this earlier, I really connected with it.
Before withholding (or just not offering) information, I've thought "what would I expect from him if he were in my shoes."
It's really hard NOT to have a double standard. I still do.
He (WxH) CHOSE this path and therefore loses having the finger on the pulse of the family.
I did NOT choose this and there would be HECK to pay if WxH did not inform me of an injury to DDs when they were in his care.
I really have no FEAR of an injury occuring without my knowledge because he would call me to take them to the dr or ER or whatever so he doesn't get stuck with the bill.
No doubt, there IS a double standard. It was created by the actions of the wayward.
It is different here because of DSS being a stepchild and unfortunately Bugs gets to see him only according to Drac's good will.
Drac has no doubt at all that you will handle anything that comes your way in regards to the kids, Bugs.
I really think he will begin to USE DSS in an effort to reach you, to soften your heart because you love the boy so much.
What a dilemma you have. Having a child you love and that loves you used as either bait or as a punishment.
You're doing great. Stay strong. Do what you know is right and allows you to look yourself in the mirror with pride.
Fox
Foxy --
You nailed it.
I truly wish Bugs was without feelings for Drac and had no wish for reconciliation. Because then it would be true justice to turn on Plan A but be completely unavailable to him!
That is one thing that I wish WxH would REALLY get.
He had a choice in this. He chose to leave.
And when he did, he stole my husband and DDs father.
I did not willingly give up my husband, DDs did not willingly give up their father.
WH stole him from us.
On the same token, my daughters are taken from their mother when they go to visitation with him. Their mother is forced to be left behind, even if she doesn't want them to go and DDs don't want to leave her. Mother and daughters are separated with no say in it at all.
WxH didn't just take my husband - he's also taken my daughters away from me.
It was his choice to leave them, it was not my choice to give them up.
KWIM?
I truly wish Bugs was without feelings for Drac and had no wish for reconciliation. Because then it would be true justice to turn on Plan A but be completely unavailable to him!
Now, THAT would be some good Karma. EXACTLY what he deserves as the man he was during the A and the man he currently is.
Fox
It's really hard NOT to have a double standard. I still do.
He (WxH) CHOSE this path and therefore loses having the finger on the pulse of the family.
I did NOT choose this and there would be HECK to pay if WxH did not inform me of an injury to DDs when they were in his care.
Yep, Foxx..this was what I've been thinking and trying to say...
Thanks for your perpective..
You are living it..
I've been wondering if I was TOTALLY offbase in this thinking...
You're doing great. Stay strong. Do what you know is right and allows you to look yourself in the mirror with pride.
EXACTLY..I get sooo EMOTIONAL about BUGSY...I LOVE MY SISTER GODDESS SOULMATE...
CHEERS..glasses clinking...
My oh my it's been busy around here this afternoon -
Figures, since my connection is moving slower than dial up today! I want to re-read and respond in detail, but I am going to wait until later when I have a better/faster connection.
In the meantime - -
I am sitting here with tears in my eyes (again). You all are so good to me! The amount time time, thought, energy and caring that comes to me from what seems to be just a piece of electronic hardware just blows me away! Thank you all so much.
And very quickly,,,,Mimi you scare me sometimes - I was in the shower this morning thinking of calling Steve!! I was washing my hair and thought that I'd need to take the time to put together a 'summary' of all that has happened since my last session with him so that I could send it to him in advance so I could get the most out of the time!
Oh,,, and Lexxxy,,,,,,,,,,,Most days I truly wish I didn't have feelings for him either!
I'll catch up with you all a bit later!
Sweet giving Bugs,
How can you be surprised by how much you are loved, respected and admired for your strength, willingness to open your heart and face this with grace and dignity.
You are an inspiration of hope, not to mention you live a FABULOUS life with action and fun.
Seriously, you open yourself and help us in ways that reach our souls and make us be honest with ourselves. You are the WARRIOR GODDESS, because you live, learn and keep on going..
(((Bugs)))
Mercifully, I haven't had to witness too much of that with my kids--they have made it clear that they would rather be with me, but they don't complain too much about going with the SCQ. Listening to you and James really makes me angry for you and your kids.
before doing this, I would recommend consulting with STEVE or JENNIFER on how to proceed...
AND you must decide IF Recovery is what U want...
Personally, I don't see Bugs being Done by any stretch. It's just not what I hear from the tone of her posts. If things are really CONDITION NOHO, I see her marriage as being completely recoverable (if that's what she wants). This is why I've been pushing consultation with the Harleys.
I really think that this is what you've been waiting for, Bugs. It's what Plan B is about. You successfully preserved your willingness to reconcile. You seem to have outlasted the affair (assuming it's over).
It's hard to know how to PLAY it...
I agree. None of us really know what to do, which is why she should call the Harleys. This is what they do.
ETA: We cross-posted.
I was in the shower this morning thinking of calling Steve!! I was washing my hair and thought that I'd need to take the time to put together a 'summary' of all that has happened since my last session with him so that I could send it to him in advance so I could get the most out of the time!
Yes! Do this!
I really think that this is what you've been waiting for, Bugs. It's what Plan B is about. You successfully preserved your willingness to reconcile.
Wow, sdguy. That just STRUCK me when you said that.
It IS one of the purposes of Plan B. To preserve the love.
I have nothing more to add. Other than, THANK YOU, for pointing that out.
Fox
Lots of good stuff today on my thread. Thanks again, everyone!
I really think that this is what you've been waiting for, Bugs. It's what Plan B is about. You successfully preserved your willingness to reconcile. You seem to have outlasted the affair (assuming it's over).
Quote:It's hard to know how to PLAY it...
It IS hard to know how to PLAY this,,,and I am at the point that I am not so sure how much I want to play the game. This afternoon, I was thinking that I don't really
want to have to have a 'plan' when it comes to Drac. I'm really tired of trying to figure out the 'right' and 'wrong' steps of any particular plan. But then, I remembered that without a plan, I would now be so lost. Having a plan is what has saved me hours, days, and weeks of pain that I can't imagine.
Life was hard enough WITH a plan!
Yet, my gut has been telling me that Plan B doesn't feel right. Of course, this isn't the first time it didn't feel quite right ,,, but there is a difference between counterintuitive and feeling wrong. It's been feeling wrong.
Today in prayer and study time with God, I felt Him telling me to "Be yourself". It's ironic (or not) that Fox pretty much said the same thing.
I did, in fact, think this morning of calling Steve Harley and went as far as mentally planning for it. I think it's 'crunch time' for me. I need to either have a plan to take one more stab at this or not.
I DO feel that Plan B has been successful in that I HAVE preserved the love I have for Drac. Yet, it won't last forever.
So,,,,as much as I would love to stay on here and share more of my raw honest feelings with everyone, my Ladybug is here needing my attention!
DSS went to spend the night with his friend next door. Do you all know that this is the FIRST overnight with a friend that DSS has ever had? Yep. Big night (well, in my mind it is). I am so happy for him!!!
Tomorrow is stiches out day. Oh, and DSS remembered as we were pulling out from Drac's to go get his school physical form for tomorrow.
Oh,,,,,one last thought - - DSS used to always come out of the garage door. After the HoNOMo, he came out the front a couple of times. Now he's been coming out the back. Found out tonight from discussion between the kids that the front door requires a key that DSS doesn't have,,,,,,,,,,,,but the garage doesn't work because they have disabled it. Without saying it, DSS let it be known that it is due to keeping the HO from accessing the house! LOL! Guess it wasn't such an amicable parting??
I'll try to pop back by later.
I like the idea of you raising the gates and letting Drac have a closer look at Bugsy. I honestly think you are beyond Plan A. YOu have already made the necesary changes and shown your willingness to fill Drac's EN's. You've now done the Plan B. Plan A is going backwards, IMO.
Be the new and improved version of Bugsy, version 2.0. There is nothing left for you to PROVE, is there? Desperate times call for Plan A, and this is not that time. JMHO.
Consult with Steve (I love that we are all on a first name basis with him).
I really would be interested in what Steve would recommend.
He will give you a PLAN.
It won't be PLAN A or PLAN B per se.
He NEVER ever used those particular terms with me.
It was A PLAN, though.
A PLAN is best in all aspects of MY LIFE, I've found.
It gives you DIRECTION and PURPOSE about whatever IMPORTANT THING you may be doing...
Heck, I have MY PLAN for TOMORROW that I'm developing NOW before I go to bed.
Steve's PLAN for you will be the BEST STEPS for you to take to RECOVER your MARRIAGE...if that's what you are wanting and I hear that it is..and it does seem to be POSSIBLE...
I predict THE PLAN will INCLUDE you STEPPING OUT more into the LIGHT..he will tell you HOW, WHEN, HOW MUCH, WHAT TO DO and WHAT TO SAY, etc...A PLAN...
I predict THE PLAN will INCLUDE you STEPPING OUT more into the LIGHT..he will tell you HOW, WHEN, HOW MUCH, WHAT TO DO and WHAT TO SAY, etc...A PLAN...
Essentially, that's what I am saying, too.
I'll be interested to hear what Steve says.
I LOVE "HoNoMo" ROFL!!!
Bugs -- you are a total success. You have outlasted the affair!
Congratulations!
Now its up to you. Its up to you how this all works out.
I believe in you. You have been an absolute MB goddess!
Plan A will bring him back. At least close enough so YOU can make the choice on if you want him or not.
Plan B will protect you.
You can't go wrong. There is no bad choice to make. But why not get an expert opinion?
Ditto. Steve will give you a plan. It's what you need right now.
Hi Bugs,
Ditto. Steve will give you a plan. It's what you need right now.
Yeap...I second SD and others. You need a plan. Steve is the best option to help you in that regard.
Not much to add here Bugsy as you've got the whole team giving you the same wonderful advice. Some are coming at it a bit differently, but it's all sound.
IF there's still hope for recovery of your relationship with Drac.. Steve can give you a plan to get there from here.
I think the undertone of concern here is that we've all watched you grow and finally wear on the outside the AMAZING woman you've always been on the inside. I don't think anyone here wants to see any of that progress sacrificed by settling for anything less than what you deserve... and that is the absolute best guy in the land.
Drac is going to have to not only be willing, but he's going to have to be EAGER to be that guy for this to work. Perhaps Lex is right, and it will take some work on your part first to help him get there, but Steve can probably give you a better idea of what THAT will look like so that you can make the decision for YOU and Ladybugs as to whether or not the odds are right to play.
Folks around here are right.. you're showing us all how successful Plan B can really be. People say it but I doubt many understand that Plan B isn't a way to manipulate the WS back to the marriage by showing him what he's missing.. that's a side effect that if it takes is a wonderful bonus.. but the true purpose is to preserve your desire for reconciliation, and the love it will take to get you through the difficult early parts of that.
You're a total success Bugsy.. it looks like the choice will now rest with you.. you've outlasted the A, it no longer has any power over your life.. it's all yours now Bugsy.
Keeping you in my heart and prayers.
That's all I got to say 'bout that.
It's a good thing that the breakup was not very amicable between Ho and Drac. You KNOW there had to be some good LB going on for the locks to be changed.
Yup, I'd call Steve too.
Remember to take care of you in the meantime. Don't get so wrapped up in Drac's reaction or non-reaction that you lose Bugsy.
Fox
Yes, I agree with you, a call in to Steve would be most helpful.
And I love that "Be Yourself" message...it is time to get real honest about this situation and with him...lay it out...
A plan is not a game, not a scheme to get him back or to make things happen in your life. This Plan has been about waiting and allowing time to pass for the A to implode and your love to remain intact. Simply waiting...
Now that it appears as though the A has imploded I have an intuition (and I think you do to) there is time for something else.
I have experienced on here there comes a time when you can show the WS the path back...you have set up a boundary and it has been firm. It has protected you and kept you and your love safe. But now that the WS may perhaps be looking back at the boundary he may see this insurmountable boundary like a weedy garden wall, overgrown with brambles and poison ivy. And what he doesn't realize is underneath there is a gate.
Is it time to clear away the brambles? Is it time to remind him to reread the Plan B letter, that it gives a solid outline on a path back? Is it time to remind him you are STILL willing to reconcile but you need him to want to?
The next email he sends perhaps you can include, "Your recent emails have seemed a bit more friendly and it hurts to read them because I still would like to reconcile our M and I get my hopes up reading your emails. So if you are not interested in reconciling and following the terms of my letter can we keep things to strictly business?"
In this way it lets him know you are still interested in reconciliation, yet if he is not you are reaffirming your boundaries.
I get the feeling he is waiting for an opening, waiting for a sign he won't be spurned at the gate...perhaps he has complained to his aunts "BB will never take me back..." Hmmmmmm...
Wow - - how about this? An entire day of posts with everyone in solid agreement on a next step?!! That's so cool!
Mimi -
A PLAN is best in all aspects of MY LIFE, I've found.
It gives you DIRECTION and PURPOSE about whatever IMPORTANT THING you may be doing...
Heck, I have MY PLAN for TOMORROW that I'm developing NOW before I go to bed.
Actually, I am exactly the same way. I always have to have a 'plan'. The difference now for me, than pre-D, is that I am much more flexible in my plans. If things don't go exactly as I envision them, that's ok. I am able to roll with it much better than I used to. But, HAVING a plan to start with is very important to me.
Lexxxy -
You can't go wrong. There is no bad choice to make. But why not get an expert opinion?
I'm sure there's some way or another to go 'wrong' - - perhaps by not following my heart? But no matter what I do or don't do, looking back I am very pleased with how I have conducted myself this last year and a half. I feel good when I look in the mirror and see WHO I am/WHO I have become.
So, for the next step, I am going to get an expert opinion. I am off next week with fun days planned all week with the kids. I am hoping to get a session with Steve early one morning. I'll keep you all posted on that.
James -
I think the undertone of concern here is that we've all watched you grow and finally wear on the outside the AMAZING woman you've always been on the inside. I don't think anyone here wants to see any of that progress sacrificed by settling for anything less than what you deserve... and that is the absolute best guy in the land.
Thank you (again) for the kind words and the encouragement. I KNOW that the key is to keep true to me and to not LOWER the bar I have set for ANY man; especially for Drac.
Fox,
It's a good thing that the breakup was not very amicable between Ho and Drac. You KNOW there had to be some good LB going on for the locks to be changed.
Yep - It's one thing to know she moved out, but it is a bit better knowing that it wasn't an amicable parting. I have been thinking about the potential for them reuniting. One of the 'previous' breakups (for which I took most of the 'blame') was the Ho giving the "it's better for your kids" story,,,,,which just left the door open. It's not looking like that was the case this go around.
So, honestly, this tid bit has helped me to decide towards the session with Steve. If there was more data to plot a more 'likely' reunion between the 2 of them (if their parting had been amicable), I wouldn't be as sure about moving in the direction that I am.
And heck, , I may consult with Steve, open the door for a look-see and then decide to close it all back up. Time will tell.
I did let these thoughts and the 'guilt' I felt for not emailing Drac first about DSS get to me. So, to eleviate my guilt, and to see what response I'd get from a tiny opening, I sent Drac picture mail of DSS at the ER and then today getting the stitches removed.
He emailed back "Thanks for the pictures of the other day and of today. They sure are growing up fast."
It's certainly not a "GEEZ, what an a$$ I've been", but it sure is a heck of a lot better than most of the communication during the HODays! ha!
I'm not giving it much thought, to be honest. As someone said, I'm not going to lose myself over how he reacts or doesn't react.
I need to get moving as Ladybug has a ballgame tonight. Just wanted to pop in for a second, confirm the 'plan' and say thanks again!
MB Buddies Rock!
SHMI,
Sorry I missed you post right before mine!
I like the visual you laid out of the brambles covering the gate.
Your idea of his looking for an opening; looking for a sign that he won't be spurned is very much the same as Lexxxy has been saying. And, it is something I think MAY be a possibility.
The "honest" part of me, though, recognizes that it may simply be that he wants a friendly co-parent relationship. Ho or HoNoMo, that may be the case.
That is why before doing anything more definitive, such as your email suggestion, I am going to talk to Steve. This kind of idea may be just the ticket!
Thanks!!
((((Bugs))))
You know.. I think I've kind of been dwelling on your sitch a bit more than I should.. but thought I'd share with you something that occupied my thoughts last night that you might want to consider about your Plan B.. and your conversation with Steve.
Where are YOU in the process?
What is the difference to you between SEEKING a recovered M.. or simply being OPEN to one.
And if you are no longer SEEKING it.. and are simply just OPEN to it.. why?
What is recovering your M worth to you?
No need to answer those things here.. just some things I've been thinking about in my own sitch..
Don't know why though.. had another one of those exchanges last night where WW may as well not have been there apart from acting as the chauffer.. there was another exchange between DS and WW as she was strapping him into the car seat, but I didn't hear enough to make it out other than it had something to do with 'daddy', and DS pouting a bit.
I think I'm just 'open' to it these days.. or trying to continue to be.. I have days where if she vanished off the face of the planet, I think maybe we'd all be better off..
This is the way I see it, James.
When she talks to Steve it means that she is SEEKING it. He will help her with a PLAN to SEEK IT. That's what those COACHING SESSIONS are all about. Being OPEN, leaves it entirely in his hands. She's OPEN to it NOW.
This is the way I see it, James.
When she talks to Steve it means that she is SEEKING it. He will help her with a PLAN to SEEK IT. That's what those COACHING SESSIONS are all about. Being OPEN, leaves it entirely in his hands. She's OPEN to it NOW.
You make a good point Mimi.. then again, you always do.
I guess maybe I'm projecting my internal struggles and hypothetical situations in with Bugsy's real, right here, right now sitch..
I know that personally I've had several internal dialogues in the quiet moments asking myself if I WANT a recovered M.. or whether I'd just be open to it if the opportunity were to present itself..
Maybe that's part of the Plan B thing.. maybe that's just my mind running away with me playing the 'what if' game as I watch other peoples sitch unfold..
Shaking the trees trying to round up the Plan B'ers tonight. SL says we should only come out at night. Where are you?
Hey Chai!
Sorry I missed you the other night. I was just so exhausted after Ladybug's game, we came home and crashed.
James,
I have been thinking about you and your posts quite a bit. Dear, you really need to re-focus on where you are and what is happening.
Maybe that's part of the Plan B thing.. maybe that's just my mind running away with me playing the 'what if' game as I watch other peoples sitch unfold..
One of the biggest things that disrupted the peaceful times of my plan B was when I'd do what you are doing - - - giving too much time to looking at other (more hopeful sounding) situations and trying to apply it to mine. Playing the 'what if' game.
It is hard not to do this, but it has been one of the most harmful things I did to destroy my peace. Don't let it destroy yours.
Mimi is spot on with the evaluation of SEEKING by having the session with Steve. I really thought about that the last couple of days. It is extremely important that I be 100% sure about what I am doing in that regard. It's important for ME, my peace, my well-being to be sure before moving forward.
So, with going on vacation next week, I really had to buckle down at work to get a lot done. That was a good thing. I needed to take some time to consider my 'decision' and to just be still for a bit.
I know that in order to prepare for a session with Steve, I need to do a 'timeline' of events. I did this before my previous first session with him and sent it to him in advance so that our time on the phone could be as productive as possible.
I also know that doing this timeline will be VERY hard emotionally and likely, filled with triggers of every sort. I have been dreading it in a lot of ways. My thought has been, "What if, having done a complete look back & review of the raw facts,,,,the horrible hurts,,,I find it TOO hard to move forward? What if it pushes me to decide it's been too bad, too painful?" The old "What if" game!
So, what's a Goddess to do when faced with a scary proposition and one that could be incredibly painful? She just faces it straight on and gets through it, right? Right!
So, I started on it yesterday. As expected, it's been really hard. In fact, I'm not done yet. I had to take a break, as it was very, very painful. Remembering the cold, cruel nature of Drac during some of those horrible exchanges.
Yet,,, it is becoming enlightening. I see much more of a pattern of things. The 'effect' of the Ho's presence or absence. And the 'effect' and 'quality' of my Plan A or Plan B on the interaction. And when I say that, I don't mean necessarily mean the effect on Drac, but more so the Effect for ME. The ability to handle myself, my emotions, and my peace in life. I am seeing more of that typical wayward script when I look at it in a timeline fashion.
Also, it has me questioning if there really is any possible 'interest' on Drac's part for reconciliation OR is it really just his desire for the 'let's be friendly co-parents'.
I'm not saying yes or no at this point. That's speculation on my part about him and without sufficient information to made a real judgement.
I'm plan to finish up the timeline this weekend. After which, I think I'll know for sure where I need to be in all of this.
Do I love him, still? Yes. Do I see myself opening the door to him again,,,,,,do I see myself being able to put myself out there for possible rejection? I don't know for sure 100%,,,,yet. But I will.
Oh, and don't think I'm deciding this all on my own, either. It's also a very prayerfully considered decision, too.
Well, I'm going to pop in the shower. I am taking Mom shopping this morning. Plan to work outside this afternoon and then it's Pool Time. May even blend up some frozen drinks!
Bugs,
So, what's a Goddess to do when faced with a scary proposition and one that could be incredibly painful? She just faces it straight on and gets through it, right? Right!
With this GOODESS BUGS...you are officially exercising your BRAVE muscle!
....and we are right there...along with you....cheering you on!
GO BUGS BUGS GO! GO BUGS BUGS GO! GO BUGS BUGS GO!....
Bugs,
I like the idea of your timeline, and how it may help you see things more clearly. I also understand the not wanting to get hurt by it. I would like to know more about how you are constructing it. Would you mind sharing a piece of it? Is it a timeline of events, emotions, actions, what? I'm interested because I was thinking on another session with Jennifer. I think with me, it's having heard about WH's health. For some reason, I've been feeling guilty the last few days over all of it. Not sure why, because this was all clearly his choice but I have this strange feeling of a disaster looming over me. Wierd.
Anyway, I'm interested in more about what your thoughts are on this.
Remember - BS-free this weekend though (as IF this is really possible
Chai,
I started by just going back through my email - some with Drac in Plan A, as well as friends and family. I'll be supplementing by going by through my MB threads.
I have started with just listing his actions, reactions, etc. I am trying to keep it 'factual' although that isn't entirely accurate, as it is all from MY perspective. Anyway, that's where I've started. I will be adding brief notes of my reactions and responses.
Let me warn you - it's HARD work. It is emotionally draining. It is, in essence, re-living some of the worst moments of my life. A lot of it still really hurts. Some of it, as I said, I am able to look at from a different perspective. Some of it makes me laugh. Some of it makes me cry. Some of it makes me proud of myself, other parts of it not so much. Most all of it makes me sad. The times that he'd draw close,,,only to pull away. The ANGER and MEAN spirited things he did still amaze me.
Oh,,,and the Wayward Psycho Babble is unbelievable.
It makes me wonder what he would think if he were to read today some of what he said back then. Would he still be the same OR would he see if more for what it was/is?
That's the rub for me, though, isn't it?
I took Mom shopping. Spent too much money. I am exhausted. We got some great bargains and I did buy a few cute things for myself. I also shopped for living room furniture and found a couple of sets that I really like.
I think tomorrow after church, I am going to one more place and then probably making a decision. Since I am on vacation next week, I can arrange to have it delivered. I'm really, really tired of only having 1 chair in my living room.
Oh,,,and email a while ago from Drac. "What are your plans for vacation? When do you want DSS? What clothes does he need to bring".
I'm giving it some time before responding. He needn't know the details of what my 'plans' are - - Lord knows he hasn't given me any of his for the last year and a half! I'll just respond to the part about the time and clothes for DSS.
I think I'm going to have an early dinner and off to bed. I want to get lots done tomorrow so that vacation can be focused on FUN!!
Bugs,
You just sounded so drained in that last post. This IS draining, isn't it? And rehashing it all again - well, the triggers are going to be there for sure. And it is sad. Sad that families, hopes and dreams have been shattered, finances have been depleted, futures have been made uncertain. The wayward doesn't see it that way though.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm on that same road too. I just wish I would feel one way or the other. I wish I could just be done or not. UGH! It seems to change from week to week. I go for weeks being done, then suddenly I'm not sure. Then I hate him, then I don't.
Well, please keep sharing because it helps those of us who may follow in your footsteps.
Have a wonderful vacation this week....
{{{{{{{{{Bugs}}}}}}}}}}
Thank you so much for stopping by on my thread. I appreciate your upbeat wisdom and kind heart so much. You really are my inspiration in how you just deal with life head on and face ALL those feelings with grace and dignity and willing to always be learning the lessons.
You deserve the best vacation ever, may it be that for you.
Queenie
Hi Bugsmom,
I wanted to thank you for posting your support the other day for OWH. I didn't get to answer everyone individually when I got back, I was too excited to get the "court report" written! LOL!!
I hope you have a nice vacation!!
Charlotte
All,
Pls keep my dad in your prayers.
Short version - he went to the hospital yesterday a.m.w/ chest pain. They transfered him to a larger hospital right away
They did a cardiac cath. One artery is full of clots. Another one that had a bypass on 10yrs ago is almost closed. He currently only has 20% heart function and severe peremanent damage.
His heart could just stop at any moment. Right now, the only thing they can do is treat w/meds and hope 4 the best. It is day by day.
Drac has the kids and has been VERY supportive. I will detail that later
Keep those prayers coming!
Thanks!
I will lift him up in prayer. Get some rest and try and enjoy your vacation.
((((bugs))))
will pray for your dad.
Prayers going up for your dad from Dallas.
(((Bugs)))
Gosh Bugsy, there is a lot going on in your camp. Hang in there. Prayers for you and yours.
I'm so sorry to hear about your father. TRUST in the LORD...
Good news.
It appears that the immediate danger has passed 'for now' - as long as he does not have another attack while they get his meds adjusted.
Praise God & thank you All for your prayers!!
It is still one day at a time but the Dr went from 'prepare' yourselves and "if" he gets thru today TO saying he has good 'hope'.
We will take it as it comes and expect the Best.
I had to call Drac yesterday. First to ask him to plan to p/u kids. He immediately said yes, of course. Anything you need, you just have to tell me. He even called me Babe.
Later he left a vm letting me know he was going to p/u the kids and asking for any news. He then sent an email, too.
I called & talked to Ladybug and then to Drac - just after I had gotten very 'grave' report from Dr. I fell apart on the phone. He was very supportive. Offered to do anything I needed, even to bring the kids here if I wanted
He then said, 'I know it does not mean much, but you and your entire family are in my prayers'. So, I lost it even more!
Later I sent email saying 'although I could not say it at the time, what you said meant a WHOLE lot to me. Thank you'
Later I called and had to leave a message. I just said 'hi guys, it's Mommy. I just wanted to say I love you very very much'
He sent email later that said 'sorry. I took the kids to a movie as I did not thin you would be talking to them again. Hope things are better. You are in our prayers"
It was nice of him to send that, but I DO wonder who he meant when he said 'our' prayers'
I sent a brief reply and asked that Ladybug call me this a.m. She did. I have had no message, call, or email from him today.
So, he is much better than he was last year when my nephew passed - so for that I am thankful
I am just very thankfull all the way around right now.
I will try to update again later.
Thanks, again everyone!
Prayers for you and your dad, Bugs. Hang in there.
I know it CAN'T BE and SHOULDN'T BE No. 1 on your list BUT..get that STEVE HARLEY APPT ASAP!!
First, {{{{{{{{Bugs}}}}}}
I'm glad the news on your dad is better and I will keep you and him in my prayers.
Second, I have to agree with Mimi, make that call asap.
You NEVER know what G-d is working in our lives for the good and sometimes the most awful situations are exactly what G-d is putting into place.
And least the hopeful ME believes so.
How are YOU doing?
(((((((((BUGS)))))))))))
Just popped in to get caught up (weekend with the kids and work have kept me away so far) and saw all this going on.. not a lot to add, but wanted to pass on a big hug, and let you know I'll be chattin up my friend God for you.
PS. I know it's not the time.. don't dwell on his reactions now, but I think this is the first time an active (or recently active) wayward I've read about honestly trying to meet some EN's for the BS.. Maybe a call to Steve once the dust settles will be in order.
Bugs, I'm relieved for you. I lost my dad in 1983 after several "this is it" trips to the hospital. It's pretty scary. I'm so glad your dad is better and hopefully they can fix this so he'll have a few more years left to share with his family.
As to this:
So, he is much better than he was last year when my nephew passed - so for that I am thankful
What a big difference it makes when the wayward is not an active wayward. I could almost hear his compassion (a strange emotion to a wayward) in his interactions with you. I think he meant "our" as in he and the kids when he said "You are in our prayers." At least that's my read.
Call the Harleys.
(((BUGS))))
Yep, call Steve. Remember - "narrow path" here. Good luck....
Thats great news about your dad. Hopefully things will continue to improve.
Bugs, this is a natural opportunity for you and Drac to get closer (not opportunity as in something to try to take advantage of, or something that he will try to take advantage of--just something that is).
Like the others have said, you need to call Steve as soon as you can.
Yep..I REALLY think there's a CRACK..that needs to be handled with KID GLOVES...
SO Bugsss....
cue music here: "Who ya gonna call?"
Hi everyone.
I'm home. Have the kids. Am sitting poolside while they are playinng. Feels GREAT!
Dad is doing soo well. It really is a miracle. This time last night, we thought we were losing him. Now, it's a question of when he is coming home.
Yes, he has congestive heart failure. Yes, that is serious. Yes, this IS something we can deal with. Every day we have him here is a GIFT. With some diligent precautions, who knows how many of those days we will be blessed with?
So, on the way home I called for an appt. with Steve. Their summer office hours are only from 8am til noon, so I wasn't able to book anything. I left my cell number and hope to hear from them tomorrow.
I sent Drac an email letting him know that I was on the way to pick up the kids. He replied and said, "Ok. If you do not mind, please keep me up to date".
I started to call him, but changed my mind. I am thinking of waiting til kids go to bed and emailing. Perhaps it might open an exchange? We'll see.
I agree,,,,,this is possibly looking like an 'opportunity' of sorts that has presented itself out of a really bad situation. He certainly is more the H than the Drac during these last few exchanges. However,,,I AM keeping in mind that for him, it may be the basic concern of the sort he'd have for say an employee and nothing more? Who knows?
I am going to try to enjoy the night and rest of the week of 'vacation' with the kids. Tonight is a bit of a challenge, as DSS did not get his meds this morning (he forgot to take them to Drac's last night).
Oh, almost forgot that Drac brought my trash can and recycle bin back up by my house for me last night. A small thing, but a nice gesture.
Gotta run for now,,,,,Thanks again everyone. I promise to try to catch up with everyone's threads soon!!!
Keep it SHORT and SWEET until you talk to STEVE.
Let HIM make the MOVES.
Ahem....
He's trying to show you what a good guy he is.
I believe I told you this 2 weeks ago. This is an opportunity for him to shine.
How does it feel having a WH trying to meet your needs? LOL
Duly noted Miss Lexxxy!!
Ahem....
He's trying to show you what a good guy he is.
I believe I told you this 2 weeks ago. This is an opportunity for him to shine.
Yes, I think he is trying to show me what a good guy he is. He's done a right fair job of it the past couple of days.
How does it feel having a WH trying to meet your needs? LOL
Well, IF that is what he's trying to do,,, the truth is it's a bit scary! I question IF that's what he's up to,,,,
And IF that is what he is up to, then WHY?
Oh, I sent him a brief update on Dad and mentioned not being able to sleep.
His reply, "You are on vacation. If you can't sleep, atleast get some good rest. I know we do not talk, but I am here if you need anything."
I about fell on the floor.
I did NOT bite on the 'I know we don't talk' comment. Not going there for sure until I talk to Steve. I did think it interesting, though, that he brought it up. As he did raise it,,,I think I can raise it up again later if/when the time comes.
Uh oh - - Ladybugs just woke up. Need to get her back to bed.
Hope I can get some sleep, too!
His reply, "You are on vacation. If you can't sleep, atleast get some good rest. I know we do not talk, but I am here if you need anything."
((((((BUGS))))))
Good Lord I know I'd be awful confused by this myself were it to happen to me... and I know I gotta stop putting myself in your shoes here, as these days your sitch is looking way more hopeful than most.
IMO though, it's time to take inventory.. not just because you're looking to talk to Steve, but take inventory of how what he's doing is making you feel. I don't THINK he added the 'I know we do not talk' bit to be a barb here.. I don't think it's evil wayward manipulation here.. but I DO think that he's at least thinking about your PBL, and is knocking on the door... only negative I take away from this is that he's trying to shove the ball back into your court to see how you're going to play it.
I'd almost see this as an opening to gently restate your boundaries in a way that lets him know (if this is what you want) that while you -want- to give him back the keys to the kingdom, the path he must follow in order to make you feel secure enough, and to be able to start to believe in him again after all you and Ladybugs have been through.. that path is laid out for him.. that's the path at this point for him to meet you half way.. you're already waiting for him at the crossroads.
Just my $.02 here, and how I'd likely approach it.. certainly though I'd get a conversation in with Steve.. but if you must reply before then, keep it brief, and remember to thank him for the kindness he's shown in recent days.. if it's genuine, that should be enough to encourage him along the path until you have a PLAN.
Bugs:
Great news on your Dad. I hope you get alot of extra time with him!
Watch out for more H sightings.
I would wiat for the plan with Steve, however, you may not be able to get that info before "this moment" has passed.
Because Drac is still crawling the night looking and trolling. If the bait he is dropping you doesn't work, than he still has other pools to fish.
"we don't talk"
Well DUH.
As Mimi said, let HIM lead. You just respond in a subdued, but positive fashion. Sort of Plan A-.
LG
PS: Hope your MOM and DAD continue to do well.
So glad to hear that Dad is doing well. I lost my dad in '99 and although we were never close, there is the loss of what "could have been". KWIM?
I hope you have many more years to enjoy him.
As for the rest: WOW!
I don't really have anything more to add. I'm thinking of you and hope that all turns out as it should.
You deserve Drac's best efforts and his undivided focus.
I sympathize with another sleepless night. Since WxH called and asked for a little financial mercy, I've had a few restless nights, too.
Hang in there and know your net is being held, too.
Fox
His comment was nothing more than a knock on the door.
And he'll keep at it, as long as you don't slap him back.
I think you are safe keeping him at arms distance until you can talk to Steve.
This also serves a second purpose for him besides knocking on your door. It is also a demonstration of how he wants you to treat him in his next crisis.
Its also an emergence of H rather than WH. I assume this is more the "character" and actions that you saw in him pre-fog?
He's de-fogging.
His pride won't allow him to be vulnerable and approach you with an apology. So he's just going to be nice, friendly, and demonstrate what a good guy he is. As long as no barbs, slaps, or verbal jabs come his way -- he will feel safer and safer.
Hey all!
My appt with Steve is first thing tomorrow morning! I was so surprised & pleased to get one so quickly!! Obviously, God's got my back on this!
Its also an emergence of H rather than WH. I assume this is more the "character" and actions that you saw in him pre-fog?
He's de-fogging.
Definately an emergence of H rather than Drac. Definately.
His pride won't allow him to be vulnerable and approach you with an apology. So he's just going to be nice, friendly, and demonstrate what a good guy he is. As long as no barbs, slaps, or verbal jabs come his way -- he will feel safer and safer.
I think you are right - - and I also think it's the best way for me to go for now. As LG said, sort of Plan A,,,, Sort of.
I do think this is him 'knocking' at the door to see what's going to happen. I just don't know if what's really waiting outside the door with him. Does HE even know himself?
I wanted to respond about the 'not talking', but definately want to get Steve's input before going anywhere close to any kind of relationship talk. Guess it really is like Plan A in that regard. I wanted to say, "I'd love to talk to you. I'm just afraid." But, now is not yet the time. And Steve can help me with the plan to get to that time,,,,,,,,and with the what to say, how to say it.
I did reply to his email - I just asked "So, what's the trick to getting good rest without sleep? :):)"
He replied this morning -
"I have found recently good rest is curling up with the Bug on the couch wathcing tv. She has become quite the cuddlebug."
I'm sure she has now that he is available to HER without the HO in the way. Of course, I'm not going to say THAT.
I was thinking of something like, "You are so right,,,nothing in the world can compare to snuggling with our Bug. I know she loves that time with you just as much."
I'll pop in later to see if you all have any other suggestions. Me & the kids are hitting the road for the day.
Thanks for the input all!
Oh Bugs, sounds like he is missing his family......
I AGREE with LEXX and CHAI 100%!
Can't wait to hear what Steve says!!
Yes, GOD is ALWAYS ON TIME!!
First, for the important news - Dad is on his way HOME!
Yep, none of us can believe it, but darn if it isn't happening! It is such a miracle!!
Mimi,
Yes, GOD is ALWAYS ON TIME!!
Yes, He is. Thankfully.
Kids and I had a great time today. Did the zoo and the science center. We all had fun. Tonight is some house cleaning and then relaxing.
Chai,
Oh Bugs, sounds like he is missing his family.....
Wouldn't that just be too darn perfect? Do I dare to hope?
I did mention to one of my sisters today about Drac's 'willingness' to be so helpful. She reminded me that her impression of him (and it's pretty accurate), is that he is known for changing his mind on a dime,,,
that he's about what makes him happy 'right this minute',
and that as he "has nothing else going he's going to try to manipulate you".
I thanked her for pointing out the fact about him being interested in me since he has 'nothing else going on'. OUCH!!
She might be on to something. Yet, she knows nothing of MB or my true hopes/desires. Still, it's good reminders that I need to keep in mind for my own protection.
Less than 13 hours to some professional advice. I hope I can sleep tonight. I plan to be up early to be prepared. Notebook and timeline at hand.
Well, time to cook some dinner for the hungry vacationers downstairs.
I thanked her for pointing out the fact about him being interested in me since he has 'nothing else going on'. OUCH!!
She might be on to something. Yet, she knows nothing of MB or my true hopes/desires. Still, it's good reminders that I need to keep in mind for my own protection.
Remember Bugs, people outside of MB (even or especially our own families) don't understand. You aren't just jumping into anything. YOU'VE WORKED THE MB PLAN and now it just may pay off. You are wise to be cautious but lordy, this is almost textbook. I can't wait to hear what Steve has to say.
(((Bugs))) Thinking about you....
Wishing you luck.
Remember Bugs, people outside of MB (even or especially our own families) don't understand. You aren't just jumping into anything. YOU'VE WORKED THE MB PLAN and now it just may pay off. You are wise to be cautious but lordy, this is almost textbook. I can't wait to hear what Steve has to say.
Outstanding post, PM! Took the words out of my brain and made them more concise.
Happy for the good news about your dad, Bugsy.
{{{{{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}
May the phone call with Steve be everything you need and more with blessings and information.
You know we all can't wait to hear what he says.
((((((BUGS))))))
Not much to add.. I think a lot of us are kinda hanging out, waiting to see what Steve's take on all this is.. but I think PM hit the nail on the head..
This is what we've all read about.. and what Steve has written that he has seen time and time again..
You've worked a marvelous MB plan that anyone could be proud of, and the dividends may just be in the offing.
Praying for you and yours.
Morning,
Thanks all.
It went well with Steve. Short version is that there is a way for this to happen, and we discussed what it will take.
I will have to go through all of my notes to give you all a decent summary later tonight. I always go back through it all for my own benefit as well. Suffice it to say that I have a 'plan', I know what I want/need to do, and what to watch for.
It is going to be a careful situation - for MY protection. As he said, the door can be cracked, but keep your hand on the knob, knowing that I am in control of it and I can close it at any time.
There is "room" now with Drac's situation with the HoNoMo. There is a void there to be filled. One of the questions is how Drac will choose to fill it - - and it is possible for it to be me that fills it.
Drac is now gaining the "capacity" and the "ability" to be aware of things outside of himself now as the fog is lifting. Steve believes as he has started to inquire about me, that this can/will continue. It will be continued interactions that will allow an opening to then test the water with Drac in regards to the possibility of an "us" again. That is something to keep in my pocket and have ready when the time presents itself.
Gee, there's so much we talked about - - -again, I think doing a summary of my notes will be the best way to explain it all later.
Brief Drac update - - - I updated him last night that Dad is coming home. I also thanked him for the advice on getting good rest.
He replied this morning with comments that he hopes Dad listens to the dr and gives himself the time to heal.
He then said, "I have been waiting to see how things progressed before getting with you. Ihave plans to be out of town this weekend and my flight does not get back until Sun night at 11. Will the kids be able to stay Sunday night and I pick them up Monday morning?
Good sleep is very rare. Who would have thought the trash (environmental) industry would be so stressful?"
I haven't replied yet. Am considering what I want to say. I am more than curious where he's going and with who. I've not heard a peep about this from the kids, so I doubt they know anything about it. I am trying not to think too much about it. It is what it is.
Anywho,,,,am signing off for now. We have a day at the water park planned.
BUGS!!!! Don't keep us in suspense too long girl. We can't wait to hear more.
It seems that Steve approaches things a little differently than Jennifer. Anybody have an opinion on it?
(((BUGS))))
Ok, here is a summary of the call that I had with Steve this morning.
To start off with, I gave him a quick update on what has happened since our last session a year ago. We kept it brief (it helped having my timeline done in advance), although he of course, asked some questions.
The question I started with was, did he think there is an opportunity to restore our relationship/marriage.
The answer is yes. Obviously, though, it does depend on Drac and what he wants to do. Steve pointed out that I have gotten to and am now in a ‘safe place’. The benefit of Plan B. He asked, how would adding Drac back into the mix enhance MY life. Why do I want to restore my relationship with him?
I told him because I do still have love for my husband. I believe that we can have a better, improved marriage and that although it was previously flawed, what we had in the past had many, many good things about it. The best thing for our kids and for us is to be together in a loving family. Together, with love restored. And I believe that is possible.
Steve asked several more questions – Who have I talked to about this? My Answer – no one outside the forum knows that I am harboring the true hope to restore our relationship. I mentioned about my sister’s comment yesterday.
Has Drac acknowledged any of the changes in me? My Answer – last year he did say that he had noticed changes, but he did not believe they were for real or that they were long term.
What were his comments about his session with Steve last year? My Answer – Drac said he felt manipulated. He said several times prior to the D that I was trying to manipulate him and control him. That was his feelings about my Plan B letter as well.
All of this information, though, comes mostly prior to Plan B, as we haven’t had any relationship type talk in months,,, actually in almost a year now.
Steve said there is a way to make this happen. The strategy is to address the fact that the affair created a severe injury to our relationship. That injury has to be treated in order to develop an intimate relationship again. There is NO re-set button. We can’t pretend that this never happened or try to sweep it under the rug. It will have to be dealt with. It NEVER works going forward long term if you don’t address it. It will take us both being on the same page to educate ourselves first on what it is going to take to do this, and then putting that into practice.
I need to stay guarded. Having interactions with him could create ‘intoxication’ on my part and I need to not ‘float’ him an emotional loan. In other words, don’t’ give him any credit that is not earned or due to him because of my own expectations or desires. I need to be careful not to over inflate my love bank with things that are more my hopes, than his true actions.
I know you all will help me a lot with that!! And that you will make sure I question myself honestly. Ask, what has he done,,,really done? I need to be very aware and to keep my wits about me.
Steve is very much a proponent of second changes. Similar to last year I can approach Drac with the idea of an experiment (MB). There is SO much to be gained by trying reconciliation via MB principles. The ‘conditions’ have changed, so yes, this is the time to see about giving this a shot.
He advised me that this is very dangerous territory. I should keep the Haz-Mat suit at the ready.
We also discussed that care needs to be taken with how it looks to the kids. Not inflating their expectations and such.
Throughout this, timing does matter. I need to keep up with various comments as opportunity presents itself. Small things. I need to acknowledge that doing this is exposing myself (BC, don’t go there!! J) I need to take care not to over expose. It must be limited.
Most of the comments we discussed will come once I have confirmed that he is ‘interested”. For now, it is waiting and working towards the opportunity to throw out the idea for him to consider. Focused towards getting to there being ‘idea’ of us being in love again. Then stepping into investigating a plan. Not doing anything together,,,,but that there is something he can look into. I can look into. Very much like last year.
My comments right now should be such to give him the knowledge that the door isn’t closed. Yet, also that it isn’t wide open either. It should not seem that I have a plan for him. And I need to take care that I don’t put myself into the position of Drac treating me as a ‘back up plan’. I specifically said to Steve that I will not be a backup plan for him.
Steve said that if Drac were a very confident man, he would see me as ‘single/ available”, and he would believe that he has a chance with me.
As Drac is less than confident in many ways (deep down) then he is going to need to hear this from me. Drac views me as being just fine as a single Mom and likely does not believe I would need or want him again. I will need to say things to make it known that I need him.
These are all things that I need to keep in my pocket ready for use at the right moment. I think I will know when to throw in a few choice sentences to get this information conveyed - - especially with the great assistance from you all here!
With HoNoMo, his communication as been increasing. His comments about me or to me specifically are increasing and will likely continue to increase as Drac’s CAPABILITY increases.
As the fog is lifting, he is once again aware of things outside of himself and the affair.
He will continue to inquire about me. It is up to me to allow those interactions to get deeper and deeper, until the right opportunity comes to jump off and ask. Perhaps something along the lines of “Have you ever considered an ‘us’ again?”
We discussed that all of the stuff about the experiment, the ideas, a way for this to happen, having a plan, etc is what will come if the answer is YES.
We also discussed what can be gleaned out of a NO and whatever else he says after the ‘no’. No isn’t always No forever. No usually indicates there is a concern of some sort that is preventing the yes. What is said after the no gives us clues as to what the concern is. When I know what the concern is, I can decide if I want to try to overcome that concern or not.
Drac needs to understand that his feelings CAN change. But this isn’t something I’m trying to force him to do. I want to encourage him in the direction that will make him happy, and get him to IMAGINE that is it possible. That is what Steve would do in counseling with him. That is what he tried to do last year, but Drac was having none of it.
I asked specifically about meeting needs for Drac right now. Steve said that room has been made. There is a void to be filled with the absence of the Ho. The first and easiest is physical attractiveness. As I have pointedly not allowed him sight of me (if I could help it) for a long time, that is a good way to slowly show the door to be open. CAREFULLY, and not over the top! No big seduction scenes.
Many of the Drac’s needs are not going to be possible for me to meet just yet, as if I started doing new things right now, it would only come off as being manipulative.
Admiration is a good one, but again it must be done with considerable care and restraint. It needs to be subtle and controlled. And as always honest & sincere!
Very important not to love bust. So, I can modify a few things, a little bit at a time.
I need to remember that at this point Drac is uneducated
He is Unaware
He is Unsafe
Like the lion that looks all sweet & cuddly but has sharp teeth & claws!
There will need to be a change in the conditions to allow me to be with him in a safe way.
For now, I control the door. I keep my hand on the doorknob. I stay on guard. I stay aware. I pay attention to the information I am getting from him.
It is important to establish the destination up front. That will help keep me out of being the ‘back up plan’.
One thing I can consider saying if the opportunity arises is “I want to be up front with you. I want a relationship with you where either we are in love with each or we are not. Wouldn’t it be great if we were? Even though we don’t have it now we can/need to look into how a planned strategy can get us there and keep us there. I want you to look at me as the woman you love for the rest of your life and I want to look at you the same way. I believe there is a way to make that happen.’
This really is a sell of the ‘idea’ of there being a way for this to happen. Heck, what do we have to lose? The stuff is already divided up. I have my life. He has his. Yet together we can have so much more – and our kids can have so much more – an intact loving family. Wouldn’t that be worth putting a little time into checking out an idea that could make that happen?
So,,,,,,,,,,,that’s kind of it in a nutshell. Modified Plan A type actions on my part. Great restraint on my part. Waiting for the opportunity to see where he stands.
For now, though, who knows? It will be a time will tell situation for a while yet. And, depending on what I see, hear, and feel for myself, I may choose to simply close the door.
For tonight, I need to respond to his email about being out of town and my keeping the kids. I think I'm going to try to approach this as if I were dealing with someone 'new' in my life. That way I'm not attaching so much past wonderings and suspicions about where he is going and who he is going with.
Ladybugs called him early as she is going to the neighbors to spend the night. She told me it 'sounded like he was at a party". UGH - I don't need that kind of info. It tweaks me a bit. I commented in a very offhand manner, "well isn't he always?" She replied, "Yep, pretty much". It made me laugh!
So, a quick email to Drac, then gotta do some laundry for our day/overnight trip tomorrow.
I'm interested to hear what you all have to say about my session with Steve.??
I cant' say much in the substance part because I don't have that type of knowledge an clearly I am NO expert.
But I think what he says makes absolute sense and is amazing. Knowing that we both still have love for our H's, this has to give you hope and a plan to work through and see what happens, versus just being in Plan B and doing nothing.
I'm so happy for you. How are you feeling? Do you have any questions for people on here after rereading your notes?
Wow -- you covered a LOT of ground. I am certain that was time and money well spent.
As I read that, I just kept thinking what a hero you are for your family. And how sweet it would be someday in the future for Drac and the rest to know how WELL you fought for them.
I very much approve of his guidence. A controlled warming.
(see? you DO control global warming!)
I very much approve of his guidence. A controlled warming.
(see? you DO control global warming!)
You are absolutely on FIRE these past few days Lexxxy..
(((BUGS)))
I have no doubt this has given you a TON of things to consider and think about.
Keep your notes.. refer back to your post here often..
Once you feel 'safe' enough to ask him for sure where his interest lies.. and honestly, not being an expert I imagine he probably still needs time to fully de-fog.. but I can certainly see a slow warming, reeling in the H, yet staying safe from Drac..
My prayers are with you Bugsy.. even though I have absolutely no doubt God is right there with you too..
Just awesome..
It's uncharted waters for me, Bugs, which is why I kept recommending Steve. I'm glad you talked with him.
I'm pulling for you.
Uncharted waters is right! For me, too!
I'm trying to worry about nothing more than steering my boat with a strong wind at my back and keeping in the sunshine.
Drac's withdrawn a bit in the email exchanges. I'm not surprised. I think there will be a bit of cat & mouse here. The 'crisis' has passed with my Dad. Drac played the good guy, but now he's totally focused on this trip he is taking this weekend, so it's back to being self-absorbed Drac.
His email replies have been back to all business with limited words.
The fog isn't totally lifted, so it's not a big surprise. A lot of this depends on what this trip is all about. I'm not going to 'investigate' to find out more about it. That info will come out eventually. I think I should 'assume' it's nothing that could be considered 'good' in terms of him coming around in my direction.
I am not going to chase him. That won't do a bit of good. So, no more email from me for a few days. I will be dressed in work Goddess mode Monday morning when he comes to get the kids. I won't be going TO the door, but the shades will be open when he arrives. Or perhaps I'll be coming back from walking the dog when he gets here. I'll see how it goes.
So, for the weekend, it's total focus on more good times with the kids.
Oh,,,,MCD called yesterday. He is sending something in the mail for Ladybugs. A friend of his got something at a concert the other day that he knows she will love.
Hmmmm, I know,,, this is going to be something for me to address sometime in the future. MCD is apparently taking the slow, respectful, pursuit route. He obviously knows that Ladybugs is very key to my life. I don't really know what to think about that just yet.
Going to go pack and get ready to roll.
Hope you all have a great weekend!
Yea. It probably has to do with the weekend. Sad for you..but true...you know he's not gonna go without SOME KINDA WOMAN to try to meet those needs, especially SF...
I am not going to chase him.
EXACTLY...
Hi Bugs,
I see your continued efforts into exploring the possibility of recovering your family and M again, given the opportunity at hand and regardless of the outcome, as something to give Bugs all the more reason to be proud of when looking at yourself in the mirror...
You are doing a great job at showing us all how to do and maintain a true 'balancing act' worthy of a circus number....
...of how to remain in a safe zone, be responsible and cautious, yet be light and adventurous in the face of the unknown...
Keep up the good work, and thanks for continuing to share your voyage...
As Steve has said, if any part of Drac also wants this to happen too, you will be providing the tools and knowledge, and so, all the more reason to being attentive on doing it... respectfully... towards yourself and Drac!
Luna,
worthy of a circus number....
Many times throughout this, I have felt like a circus clown! ha!
Seriously, though, thanks. I do feel like it's the right thing to do for me and my family. So, that's what I have to do. I can do nothing less and be happy with myself.
Well, we had quite the day yesterday. Ladybugs had her school checkup. I emailed Drac with the 'facts', and included how she's growing up and with her new height measurement, she was looking forward to riding new rollercoasters at the amuzement park.
He emailed back, but I did not read until today -
"She has been talking about Florida. She wants to ride all of the rollercoasters. How did she handle the shots?
Speaking of growing up, how are you handling her in the sub-division when it comes to visiting fireds. Do you let her walk over by herself?"
I haven't replied yet. We did 2 Florida trips together as a family. The last one was just 3 months before I found out about the HO. Ladybugs has been wanting to go back there ever since.
So, on with our day. We then went to breakfast and then to the amusement/water partk. We were at there ALL day from OPEN to CLOSE!! Drac called while we were on a ride and left a vm for the kids that he'd be on a plane at the 'usual' time. Said he'd call in the morning.
He in fact called as we were leaving the park, but again we missed the call. They called back when we got to the car. They both were wired and went on about what a GREAT day we had had. He let them know he is in Texas, , going to some concert (don't know who it is), and that he has backstage passes? Whatever.
He made a point of telling DSS he'd call him on DSS's phone. That is a some kind of big thing these days,,,that he insists on calling them on DSS's phone and not mine. I don't get that at all.
Anyway, we had a GREAT day. It was one of those that at the end of the day, the kids both went on about it being the GREATEST EVER - thanks Mom!! It was great, but boy am I sore. There wasn't a single ride that I didn't do atleast once with them! OUCH!!
I also saw this morning that Drac sent am email yesterday at 5:30 - he must have been on his way to the airport. It says
"Contact me on my personal phone this weekend. I am turning off my Blackberry. ###-###-####"
I always have the kids call all of the possible numbers when trying to reach him, so that email wasn't necessary - except if I were to send him an email. I hadn't planned on it as I think it would be taken as 'chasing' him
I think it's important for me to keep quiet about this weekend in terms of making sure not to ask any questions about where/when/who/what his trip was about. I have a feeling this was probably a pre-planned Ho trip. IF it's still HoNoMo, who knows who he took with him. Or, it could be a guys forget the ho trip? Whatever it is, it has nothing to do with me, so I am staying dark and quiet on the matter.
The question about handling Ladybugs is interesting - - but it is very much putting me in the 'mother' only role which isn't necessarily where I want him to see me right now. I don't think it is really bad, as it is keeping the communication going - - but it's not necessarily good for building towards a personal/intimate realtionship. Yet,,,it's a start.
So, we are home for the rest of the weekend. I need to go vacum the pool for swimming later. I know I'm planning to spend most of the rest of the weekend floating in the Goddess chair!
Hope all is well with everyone.
Hi Bugs,
I think it's important for me to keep quiet about this weekend in terms of making sure not to ask any questions about where/when/who/what his trip was about.
I agree, Bugs... it will help you to protect that 'little heart of yours' and stay focused on Bugs (...and because you can't WONDER about anything, if you don't KNOW anything!)
Yeah, Bugs, that's what we all have an issue with as a BS, WS trying to LIMIT and put us in the mother' box only, yeak!...
...when we are soooo much more than that!
Hi Bugs,
How's the pool today. I'm going on day 5 of no sunshine with three days left before work.
So soak up some rays for me, please.
Have a blast with the kids and remember how much we love you and are there with you.
Evening!
Queenie - I did soak up some rays this afternoon. We really just took it easy most of the day.
I did take the kids up to my parents to visit with them. They hadn't seen Dad since his hospital visit and were wanting to see him. He's doing well. A bit peaked today, but ok overall.
We took them to a local hometown parade not far from my parents house. They cleaned up with tons of candy. We had some local fish from the fish fry and went home. The kids wanted to stay and help with chores, so we did. Saw my brother who comes up nightly now to help with the harder chores. It was a nice evening.
On the way back from the parade, kids told me that the cat that I'd given Drac,,,,,,which was not allowed to move into HoHouse, was given to Drac's mom. Well seems her husband (AffairHusband) doesn't like cats, so she gave it to a shelter and he's long gone. I commented to DSS, "Well, now that what's her face is gone, couldn't you have brought him home?". DSS said that ExMIL did not tell them in time and the cat was already gone. UGH! I hate it for the kids because they really loved that cat
Then, out of the blue, Ladybugs asks, "Mommy, do you have a boy friend?" I almost choked!
Instead, I said, "Well, I don't know that it is any of your business right now. Why do you ask?"
She said she just wanted to know. I told her it wasn't something I was going to discuss with her right now and the subject dropped.
This has consistenly been my answer. I considered telling her that no, I don't have one so that word will get back to Drac, but I'm not ready to go there. I don't want them in the middle in any way and I don't know that he needs to know this just yet.
I have NO idea why she asked that.
Mom had an interesting observation tonight when I told her about Drac's trip and we were discussing his 'new' personal cell phone and the fact that he turned OFF his other (work) phone. He has NEVER turned off that phone and never had the 'need' for a personal phone before.
She commented that perhaps the HO is hassling him via phone/email on the other phone?? I hadn't thought about that, but it could be true. Wouldn't that just be too special? And, as wayward relationships go, it wouldn't be surprising. The continued attempts at the 'drama'.
Thank goodness I'm not in the MIDDLE of it.
I told Mom & Dad about Ladybugs asking me about a BF. Mom asked, "Well, why DON'T you have one?". I replied, "Well, I didn't say that I DID and I didn't say that I DIDN'T"
Dad said, "in other words, it's none of your business either."
He turned to me and said, "Just pick a good on this time".
I said something to the effect of there not being any good ones to which he replied that there are, I just picked bad ones before.
OUCH. That hurts. I'm not even going to comment on what potential recovery hurdles there will be with the family should we ever get the chance,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's a bridge I'll cross IF we ever get there.
My guess is that there's concern about the FOOTBALL PLAYER GUY...and I like it that you were ELUSIVE with LADY...he needs to think that you MAY have a BF...Don't you think he likes being the CAT? You know, the PURSUER?
Mimi,
Don't you think he likes being the CAT? You know, the PURSUER?
Yes, I think he does enjoy being the Cat. As we have touched on a bit, one of the keys to possibly moving to a new relationship with him will be balancing letting him know that I am 'available' and open to the pursuit AND at the same time allowing him to be the Cat.
He needs to view me as a Single Woman (not just Mom to the kids)! He also needs to know that I would be open to HIS pursuit.
So, I wll be giving thought on how to go about that juggling act in the coming days/weeks.
For today, getting ready for church. Then kids & I spending the rest of the day getting back to a regular schedule for the coming week. House cleaning and laundry today.
Ladybug starts school on the 13th and DSS starts the following week. I have gotten them both a few things for the start of school, but we will be doing a back to school shopping trip our next weekend together.
Also doing a pool party with some of Drac's family that weekend. It should be interesting to see how he reacts to that event. During HappyHoHouse time, I am sure it would be viewed very negatively. We'll see how it goes now. I'm not taking any particular action or refraining from any particular action in regards to how he may or may not react. I'm carrying on with what I want to do. Yet, as Steve said, I'll be keeping a close eye on things in his camp for signs (negative or positive). As that will give me clues as to where he stands right now.
(((Bugs)))
Hang in there Bugs. You are doing so well.
Morning!
I am back at work, but just had to pop in real quick to report on the first 'face to face' exchange I've had with Drac since starting Plan B last year.
He was to pick up the kids at 7:15 this morning. I was up plenty early and dressed in Goddess work outfit - strappy top, shorter skirt, and high heels. Nice, but still definately work clothes so as not to be over the top. I had Ladybugs ready to go and DSS was gathering the last of his things at about 7:05. Ladybug had gotten her bike out of the garage to ride along while I walked the dog. I was thinking that I'd be headed back into the house after our walk at about the time he'd get there.
Well, that isn't the way it worked out.
I was just walking out of the front door with the dog, and there he was pulling into the drive. 10 minutes EARLY. He's NEVER early.
Ladybugs was on her bike at the end of the drive. She ran up to him as I was walking out of the house (with Diva shades on). Without really looking at him, I gave Ladybugs the dog leash and told her I'd go in and get DSS.
I went in, got DSS to hustle it up. We had our hugs inside the house. I went back out and got the dog from Ladybug while Drac took DSS's suitcase around the back of the car. I had hugs and kisses with her, and then walked around the other side of the car with the dog. He was on the phone while finishing putting the suitcase in the car. I glanced at him as I walked on by with the dog and I headed down the street (opposite direction from where they would be driving). I didn't look back.
I wanted to,,,,,,,,,,,but I didn't.
So, this was the first face to face exchange we've had. Well, I guess I should say the first VOLUNTARY face to face (there's been Ladybug's ballgames that we've seen each other).
I think it was good that it worked out this way, as it WAS totally by accident that I was coming out of the house when he pulled in - and as he was early, it was obviously not planned on my part. I 'think' it would have appeared that I was merely handling the situation for what it was - not hiding but not coming on all friendly either.
Whew - it feels better just to have told you all about it. NOW I can get settled into work. I have over 200 emails waiting!! YIKES!!
Have a great week everyone!
Hi Bugs,
I wanted to,,,,,,,,,,,but I didn't.
Good!
I think you handled things pretty well... the exchange you described is actually pretty much the kind of thing that goes on when WW comes to pick up DS..
Yes.. she's there, but she's not the focus of my attention, if I give her any attention at all.
I'm not sure what kind of message it's sending her as there was never a PBL.. but regardless of how she takes it.. I'm getting on with me, and staying focused on my kids.
They've got to know on some level just how terribly they've hurt us.. and the understanding of our need to distance ourselves and not be 'open' to that happening again..
I just wonder what the appropriate type of opening in that situation may be for you down the road.. does it just get easy to brush them off after a while?
Hey Bugs,
Good on the holding back.. Your strength... AWESOME.
I'm curious what was it like for you to be that close. What were your feelings?
James,
They've got to know on some level just how terribly they've hurt us.. and the understanding of our need to distance ourselves and not be 'open' to that happening again..
Sorry sweetie, but I don't think this is true. It SHOULD be true, but it's just not. Atleast not in a real sense of them understanding and certainly not while they are actively wayward.
I think perhaps now that a tad bit of his fog is lifted, that maybe,(and I do mean MAYBE) Drac sees this. There were a few brief moments at the beginning of his affair that he realized it,,,but the Ho helped him shut all of that out with the total eclipse of fantasyland. That is why he stopped his individual counseling. He couldn't face the truth about himself, his actions or my pain AND be able to carry on the Affair. So, he simply shut out the TRUTH.
Sad - but true.
I just wonder what the appropriate type of opening in that situation may be for you down the road.. does it just get easy to brush them off after a while?
I am hoping for more opportunities like today in the future.
Queenie asked me how I felt being that close to him again. Honestly, this morning, I very much wanted to walk up to him, give him a big hug, and say thank you for everything you did last week.
If he hadn't been on the phone, I might have done just that. But, it's just as well he was on the phone. I think that type of action is too soon right now. I think slow, moderated exposure of Bugs is the way to go. If I open up too much too soon, I will be relegated to nothing more than a back up plan in his mind. Well,,,,atleast that is my speculation on the situation.
Now, as to it getting easier to brush them off? Yes, it does get easier. TODAY wasn't, but that is due to the change in the HoNoMo. Prior to that, I found every one of Ladybug's games that we attended, it grew easier and easier not to even look his way.
Even though this morning I really wanted to make eye contact, it wasn't AS difficult not to because of the previous experience with it.
I put myself in "Diva" mode and walked tall. Chin up Chest out as Mimi always says!
Did he notice me much? I don't know. Frankly, I will admit to 'hoping' for an email from him today. Something,,,anything about the kids or whatever minor thing he could come up with. I was very disappointed not to get one.
I have to be very careful of that. No expectations. So, even though it's tempting to reach out with an excuse to contact email of my own, I have sent him nothing. I have some kid 'bills' that he needs to pay 1/2. I'll save that for later in the week.
Tonight I have traffic school, so am just eating up some time here at work before leaving for that. I will have to call the kids early since I'll be in class at our regular time.
Oh,,,Ladybug brought up the boyfriend question AGAIN yesterday on our way to dinner. We had a bit further discussion about it, but still I have given nothing away that says I am or am not seeing anyone. In fact, they might think I'm seeing more than one person based on our conversation.
Did I mention that yesterday was my wedding anniversary? Yep. Wonder if Drac remembered?
Did I mention that yesterday was my wedding anniversary? Yep. Wonder if Drac remembered?
Argh. You seem to be doing well with it. And everything else.
TODAY wasn't, but that is due to the change in the HoNoMo.
Just don't go too fast. I think you know it, but keep reminding yourself.
Don't go too fast. I really really want this for you, but I also don't want to see you get hurt again.
I have to be very careful of that. No expectations.
Exactly... but KNOW that he did notice you.
Be directed by your SMARTS and NOT your FEELINGS.
In fact, they might think I'm seeing more than one person based on our conversation.
GREAT...LOL...
So, late tonight I responded to Drac's email from Friday, asking about Ladybugs shots at the dr, and her freedoms in the neighborhood at my house. It was short, but friendly sounding.
He replied almost immediately. He explained about her wanting to see a friend in his neighborhood, but it's a longer walk than those she sees here who are right next door. He talked about her throwing up what she is allowed to do over here and then mentioned that she can be bull headed.
He went on to ask if I got email about a pool party for her softball team this weekend. He said he would take her and then I could pick her up, "if that works for you".
He also asked about some pics we ordered from her dance recital.
I responded that yes, I got the email about the pool party (thanks). That arrangement would work for me.
I said it was funny that he asked about the pics, as I'd just said to Ladybugs over the weekend that we needed to call about them. I said I'd try to remember to call this week.
He responded right back again with "thanks, go to bed".
I replied, "ha! Look who's talking".
He said, "This is when I get my best work done."
I replied, "Yes, it always has been that way
. Nite."
No response, but I expected none. I do hope that he is sitting there scratching his head and wondering just what I meant by that comment.
I "think" I opened the door, but then I also shut it at the same time. I hope that it conveyed a bit of a flirty attitude, but that the "nite" also sufficiently kept ME in control. I wanted it to say that I wasn't sitting here 'waiting' for a reply.
Thoughts?
I'm NO expert, but YOU GO GIRL.
How did if FEEL for YOU.. That's what matters, especially if you are doing a little Plan A in there. Remember, Plan A is about YOU.
Vets, am I wrong...
Hi Bugs,
He couldn't face the truth about himself, his actions or my pain AND be able to carry on the Affair. So, he simply shut out the TRUTH.
Unfortunately, even though I WISH it wasn't so, from my experience, I also have found this to be true...it's the 'disconnection' that allows a WS to get 'lost' in lalaland!
Bugs...you have come a long way since D-day....you are doing great at navigating those DANGEROUS waters invaded by a creature called...INFIDELITY! :eek:
Sounds like good work to me, Bugs.
You're a marvel. It's not easy to walk the line that you're walking right now, but you're doing it with such grace that it seems easy.
MARVELOUS, BUGSY!!!
Ok, this may be long so I might put in 2 posts to get it all in.
Email this morning from Drac asking me what my schedule is like in the morning. DSS has his school physical in the morning and Drac has a meeting at the same time. Could I take him to the appt. and then Drac would pick him up at my office.
I replied, "Just like you, I am pretty much under water with work, but I will just stay later tomorrow night. He has to make this appt. What time will you bring him by in the morning?
My point was only to let him know that I, too, have responsibilities and a large work load.
His reply below is very interesting (I think).
This is why I hate communicating like this. Are you pi$$ed that I asked for help with DSS?
I simply asked your schedule and if you were able. I have no intentions of canceling his appt and I would decline the meeting if it is necessary. The one thing I told 'the boss' when I agreed to come back to work here is that my children come first.
Unlike you having the flexibility of family, I am alone here. I know this was by my choice.
Again if I am wrong I am sorry, you know this has never been the best way for me to communicate.
If you are able to help I appreciate it and I would have him there around 7 am give or take 15 mins
Ok, before I go on with the rest of the evening events, I'd really like some input on what you all get out of his email above????????
I have my own thoughts/ideas, but I am going to hold comments for now.
Trying to figure out a way to speak to you directly?
Almost desperate in his attempt to open up lines of communication with you?
How about emailing him and SIMPLEY asking him if he remembers or knows why you are communicating this way? How about saying "I SENT YOU A LETTER"...
Gosh he's sounding REPENTANT almost.."I'm sorry".."I know it was MY CHOICE"...WOW...
Ok, so at this time I had gone to meet a friend for dinner. I left there and was making quick stop at at store. I came out and my car is DEAD.
As a Door Nail.
Zip. Nada. Zilch. Not turning over and lights barely on.
Oh, and a thunderstorm is moving in.
So, I make a couple of calls and have someone on the way with jumper cables. While waiting, I email Drac,
"You are wrong.
Right now, however, I am sitting here in a car that will not start.
I will let you kmnow for sure, as soon as I can, if I have a car with which to take him to the dr."
He replies, "Do you need help?"
As I am typing a reply, my cell rings. It's Drac.
"Are you ok? Do you need help?"
I told him I'd made some calls and thought I had it covered. I didn't say how or who I called.
He asked several questions about what was wrong with the car, etc. Told me that he and the kids were just getting back from the store and that he could come if I need him to. I said no, I think I have it covered, but thanks.
He THEN went on to tell me that I am still covered under his Triple A membership, did I know that? I said, no, I didn't know that. I figured I wasn't covered and I don't even know if I have the card. He said that if I didn't have the card that he would take care of making the call if I needed to have the car towed. I checked, and I still had the card but it had an expired sticker on it. He said, "oh yes, I kept the coverage because with the kids it just makes sense"
Well, the membership had to be renewed in APRIL of this year. He never bothered to tell me that I was still covered.
Anway,,,,,I said thanks, I'll let you know later what the situation is. If I have to have the car towed, I won't have a vehicle to take DSS to the dr in the morning.
He said that HIS car is in the shop (again? I think he may have gotten a bit of a lemon). He is driving his dad's truck. BUT, if my car has to be towed, I could take dad's truck, and he'd get a ride to work with an employee of his who lives close and he'd then drive a work truck.
WTF???
I just said thanks, I'll let you know and we ended the call.
I hate to do this guys, but I have to go walk the doggie. I'll be back (sorry for needing a 3rd post on this)
I hate to do this guys, but I have to go walk the doggie. I'll be back (sorry for needing a 3rd post on this)
Well darn! I was on my way to bed and thought I just check the boards for a sec... (sigh) guess I'll just have to wait until the morning. I think that tiny hole in the dam is growing larger and it's gonna be a gusher soon.
OH MY GOODNESS!!
Pull out your notes from Steve!! Time for STUDY HALL!!
Check with you tomorrow!!
So, I get the car jump started and down the street to a car parts store. As I am getting battery tested, etc. the kids call at the 'usual' time. I told Ladybug I'd call her back and I did after getting things squared away with getting a new battery.
I talked to the kids and then after, I emailed Drac that it looked like things are a go for in the morning for DSS.
He replied asking what was wrong with the car.
I replied, "battery"
He then emailed telling me to still have the alternator checked because if it is going bad, it can drain the battery.
I replied later saying thanks, I took his advice and had it checked, too.
Mimi - you did catch the one thing that I thought was the most interesting in his email. For the FIRST time, I heard some sort of personal responsibility of his situation. He actually said the current circumstances are due to HIS choice.
Now, as Steve has warned me, I am giving this a lot of review. He did NOT say that he dislikes the circumstances, nor did he say he REGRETS his choices in any way. Nor did he acknowledge the issues his choices have caused anyone else. The small admission is still DRAC FOCUSED.
I think it IS progress. But I'm not over the moon about it.
I talked to my sister (who is out of town tonight) during the evenings events and shared with her how 'helpful' and concerned Drac was being. She went on about how she hoped that we would get to the point of having a good 'divorce' relationship for the kids, how friends of hers have such things, yada, yada, yada. BUT, then when she heard everything, she added, "I don't trust the s.o.b." ha! I laughed.
She also recognizes that for us to have this kind of communication, that I need to be able to handle it emotionally. I told her THAT is why I had ended this kind of communication last year because I could not. She noted that even then he wasn't THIS friendly (well DUH, he was in the heart of HOLand back then). I told her further that at that time he was 'cake eating". She wasn't so sure,,,,,,,,I simply said I could guarantee it. She doesn't know that we were still intimate.
So, I'll be waiting anxiously for some input on all of this.
I do need to email him about keeping Ladybug one night next week when I am gone for work overnight. I'll let you know how it goes.
Hi Bugs,
Now, as Steve has warned me, I am giving this a lot of review. He did NOT say that he dislikes the circumstances, nor did he say he REGRETS his choices in any way. Nor did he acknowledge the issues his choices have caused anyone else. The small admission is still DRAC FOCUSED.
I think it IS progress. But I'm not over the moon about it.
Drac is definitely wanting to 'open up' communication.
You seem to have a good take of the situation.
Remain cautious, and I would avoid giving him reasons to powerstruggle or to be defensive. If he asks for a favour...you either can or you can't (and vice-versa). You don't owe him any explanation, nor do you have to 'accommodate him' at all costs.
When WS asks me for those kinds of favours (ie. picking up DS12 later than scheduled, switch a day), it's a 'yes or no', and in my mind, I do it for DS12, because he would be stuck with whatever arrangements WS can make...
How did YOU rate on meeting the ADMIRATION NEED?
ETA: IMO, you should NOT be agreeable to OPENING UP more COMMUNICATION as a PARENT. That's where HE wants to put you and that's where YOU will STAY if you do it HIS WAY. He will get to USE you in that role while he maintains relationships with HOs. IMO, this NEW RELATIONSHIP PHASE should be according to YOUR OWN AGENDA... IF you PURSUE this, that YOU want to be his ROMANTIC PARTNER...IMO, this should be made CLEAR and EVIDENT to HIM.
I think that HE is trying to CHART THE COURSE... as you say.. and it's gonna be up to YOU to MAKE THE RULES..and NOT HIM...
Well.. I'm not seeing anything to get overly excited about here, however I think it's pretty clear that he's defogging a little bit at a time.
Accepting that the situation was HIS choice is IMO a big step, and one taken so soon and in the midst of the recent circumstances I'd take as a very positive sign.
Keep your guard up, because honestly I wouldn't trust the SOB either
.
Not yet anyway.. but give it a few more interactions and see if he really is clearly trying to give this more of a shot than the 'let's be friends and raise the kids' bit..
((((((BUGS))))))
Stay on target!
Well.. I'm not seeing anything to get overly excited about here, however I think it's pretty clear that he's defogging a little bit at a time.
Accepting that the situation was HIS choice is IMO a big step, and one taken so soon and in the midst of the recent circumstances I'd take as a very positive sign.
Keep your guard up, because honestly I wouldn't trust the SOB either
.
Not yet anyway.. but give it a few more interactions and see if he really is clearly trying to give this more of a shot than the 'let's be friends and raise the kids' bit..
Well, James, I don't think I could have said it better myself, as this is pretty much what I am thinking.
I have just a few minutes before I need ot leave to take DSS to the dr this morning. Wish I had time to get caught up on everyone's threads,,,,,I've read a bit of most and feel bad I have only posted about 'me' these last few days. Hopefully tonight I will have a QUIET evening to spend time with you all!
So, I emailed Drac last night about keeping Ladybug one night next week. He just replied 'yes'.
This morning, I was walking Beau when he arrived with DSS. I wasn't back to my house yet as he started backing out of the drive. I thought he was going to drive on, but he backed up and rolled down his window.
The truck he was driving is diesel, so I could not hear what he said and had to walk up closer to hear. He just wanted to confirm that he will pick up DSS at my office later this morning. I replied that yes, that would be fine. I started to walk away when he said something I didn't hear again, so I turned around. He looked me right in the eye and said, 'thanks'. I just nodded and went on to the house.
I did catch him giving me a look up and down when I walked closer to the truck. Well, how could he not? I have on a great Goddess dress (the polka dot I bought for last years presentation meeting I gave), combined with my great tan and diva glasses, even *I* think I look good today. Hope he even got a wiff of my perfume! haha!
So, I am looking at this as baby steps. Watching carefully for a daily weather report and hoping for the continued clearing of the fog.
Gotta run,,,,,,,Have a blessed day everyone.
(((((Bugs)))))
Seems like another in a series of positive interactions..
Nice that he bothered to say thanks.. and I'm sure he's getting a gander at what he's missing, and I'd even wager that he's really getting to a point where he really misses it.
I think you're handling the situations well, though I do worry how much of a letdown it will be after having several positive interactions, if/when there is a setback, however slight.
Keep up that guard Bugsy.. but make sure you're letting some sunshine in for yourself.
If Luna's got the saftey net thing covered.. you're certainly teaching a master class on tightrope walking.
Me? I'm just a clown, still tripping over my big ol shoes.
BUGSY:
Hhhmmmmm.....
Cracks in the dam?
Maybe. Water is certainly gushing...
The first email:
Drac is stamping his FEET. "I DON'T Want to do it this way ANYMORE! WAAAHHH!!!
Meaning, NOMOHO, and maybe, just maybe, I can get BUGSY back into that backstop position.... Mimi pointed that out, later.
His reply, even though he says he hates email, was about seven lines too much if you don't like using email. "He doth protest too much" And since the ONLY real direct communication he has at this point is via email, he NEEDS to get you to start talking to him in a more direct manner.
DRAC can ALWAYS get to you thru the kids. He knows this. So do you.
Drac has been putting out the bait. Slowly but surely. Your reply to his request, was a seeming rejection of all that bait. So, he lashed out.
He threw in a slight admission, "was by my choice" but he probably put that in AFTER he wrote the rest of the email to cushion the blow a little. Had the sentence been at the beginning of the paragraph, or in the middle, then I would allow it to carry greater weight. Otherwise, he just added it to the email so that you didn't pop a email right back at him stating that "this WAS your choice, you know"
In light of what happened later, I would think he would NOT have sent that email, had he asked you that question at the end of the day.
That's what I think about THIS Email.
LG
Bugsy:
This dead battery thing? How did Drac respond?
Like someone who is trying to be a nice guy. Trying to show he cares.
He's trying to "protect" his family.
Trying to be the "White Knight"
From offering to come out there, to the truck offer to advising you about AAA availability.
See what a great guy he is? I mean, that's the kind of guy you met originally right? You married HIM.
Too bad he turned into Drac.
Listen to Steve and Mimi. Drac is really trying to manuever into the "co-parent and friendly communications" mode. If he can get you THERE, then he's DONE. He MIGHT what to restart a romantic relationship with you, but that isn't his real goal right now. He wants a step-mommy for his kids.
His looking you "up and down" is expected. He KNOWS what he lost. He may not ever be able to recover that.
I think you need to go to dinner with MLC or that someone else who has been asking you to go out, and make sure that Drac finds out about it. Then soon afterward, make sure that you hang on the window with your elbow and have a conversation with him one morning at kid pick up, IF you are bending over to look into the car, thats even better. Turn him into a puddle.
Then you will find out if he is interested in more than just step-mommy.
LG
Bugsy --
We need a callout for Schoolbus to analyze some of his communications lately.
I would reply to his "complaining" email with something along the lines of:
I know it can be difficult with emails, there is a lot of room for misunderstanding or taking things the wrong way.
I did not mean at all to imply I wasn't 100% willing to help with DSS.
Do you still have a copy of the letter I sent you last year?
It explains why things have to be this way.
He's trying to rescue you...and you rejected him. I think that is why his latest communication was abrupt.
I think you should have treated this situation with more "plan A". LET him rescue you. Then show admiration and appreciation. He would lap it up like a little puppy.
And it would have been an interaction between you as adults with NOTHING to do with co-parenting or kids.
Mimi,
I'm sorry I missed your early morning post when I was on first thing this morning. I have gone back and re-read all of the posts a couple of times because I really want to get what everyone is saying, cause it's good stuff.
I see the points that are being made about Charting the Course OFF of co-parenting as much as possible. As it has been pointed out, this isn't the role that I want, but one that he would easily delegate me to if he is able. I (unfortunately) did something this morning that plopped me in that mommy role - - after DSS's appt, I sent a summary email of the details of his appt. I was very careful to be positive and have no judgments - which is a bit hard due to DSS being borderline overweight. Also, DSS made a comment about "My dad said he might PUT me in wrestling this year". The dr jumped on that comment and said sports should be what HE wants to do. I've made that statement before when Drac's PUT DSS in sports and it never went over well. In the email, I told him what was said, but made the comment "It's really hard finding something that really sparks DSS's interest, isn't it?".
Anyway, I'm not really happy with myself overall with the email, but what's done is done.
Drac emailed asking if we were back. I replied yes and he showed up at my office door moments later. I was on the phone with a business call and he stood there waiting for me to end the call. I was upbeat and funny on the call. As soon as I was off, he said he'd gotten my email. He picked up DSS's paperwork from my desk and says "The co-pay was $, right?" and reached for his wallet. I said yes, but just wait, there's other stuff we need to catch up on. I'll send you the information."
He said "thanks again" as he turned to go. DSS was walking out right behind him. I said, Hey to DSS, don't just leave me without giving me my hug! Drac stood right outside the door watching as we hugged. I asked DSS if he had his picture (I gave him a copy of one we had done at the zoo last week of the 3 of us). Drac looked at me one last time and said 'thanks again' and left.
Lexxxy - you make a very valid point about the attempted 'rescue'. I hesitated when he offered, as I think I knew it would be a perfect Plan A thing to do (even though he had the kids with him), but I already had someone on the way so that's why I said no.
I've been thinking of another reply to the 'complaint' email. I'm not sure if that moment has passed fully or not. I was considering sending something like this -
"I just wanted to say thank you.
Thank you for your support last week during Dad's heart attack. As hard the entire situation was, knowing you were there for me made it easier. I wish I could express what that meant to me.
Thank you for calling me last night when my car would not start. I was really scared when I turned that key and nothing happened.
Thank you for the offer to come help me.
Thank you so much for keeping me on the Triple A membership and for letting me know that I'm still covered. Knowing that I am covered gives me a lot of peace of mind.
Thank you for the offer to drive Dad's truck while you would have to take a ride to get a company vehicle. It was one less worry for me and Lord knows that I could use less of those these days!
Thank you for allowing for the possibility of email interpretation being the issue in my message about DSS's doctor visit. I know that it is difficult with email. There is a lot of room for misunderstanding or taking things the wrong way. I wasn't trying to imply that I wasn't 100% willing to help with DSS.
I don't know if you have the letter I gave you last year when I asked you to communicate via email. I tried to explain in that letter why things have to be this way. I don't know if I did a good job of explaining or not. Probably not. We were both in a different place then. I may not have written it well and you may have taken it differently than I had intended. "
I am not sure about that last paragraph. I left it open at the end to see if he will inquire about the intention. I don't know if that is a good idea or not.
Oh - - last second add to this post - - Email from Drac that he was putting next week's overnight with Ladybug on his calendar when he "noticed that we are at the same event Thursday evening." What the heck should I think/do/respond about that?
Oh - - last second add to this post - - Email from Drac that he was putting next week's overnight with Ladybug on his calendar when he "noticed that we are at the same event Thursday evening." What the heck should I think/do/respond about that?
Maybe some kind of subtle flirting in response, just enough to make him scratch his head and wonder if he's imagining it.
Can't tell you what to think Bugsy.. you know that..
As for what to do?
I'd start picking out the outfit you want to wear tomorrow nite..
If I had to respond to that comment I'd simply say 'See you there' or something appropriately vague to get his wheels turning. But if that was the only thing to reply to in the email, I'd leave it alone.. and just show up in full GODDESS DIVA mode.. if appropriate for the event that is.
Is there a context in which this is mentioned? Is it an event for one of the kids, or more of a social thing?
James,
It is actually Next Thursday and it is work. It is an area sales meeting for the sales team in Drac's area. I have been invited as a 'guest' to attend and to give a presentation.
It is meetings all day Thurs with dinner/comedy club outing that night and the meetings on Fri.
Miss Meggy, hmmmm,, I do have to address Ladybug's care, and fit in a flirty comment. How about this -
"Oh, I did not know the you were attending, too:). I do believe the event just improved.
I will make arrangements for Ladybugs"
The question I have is the timing ofsending the above with the proposed email in my previous post?
Miss Meggy, hmmmm,, I do have to address Ladybug's care, and fit in a flirty comment. How about this -
"Oh, I did not know the you were attending, too:). I do believe the event just improved.
I will make arrangements for Ladybugs"
The question I have is the timing ofsending the above with the proposed email in my previous post?
I was thinking something like, "Oh, I didn't know you were coming too. Maybe you'll get lucky and run into me. ;)"
What about the timing? Don't wait too long or it'll seem like you've been thinking about what to say. Oh wait. You have. LOL
Oh I missed the part about the proposed email.
How bout the flirty stuff and THEN say, oh, and by the way.... (the text of the other email.)
Bugsy, I only have a minute here, so this is all off the top of my head, but your proposed email seems a lot like laying all your cards down on the table. Is it too soon for that?
My only advice is for you to consult your notes from your meeting with Steve. What do you think Steve would want you to do?
Bugsy, I only have a minute here, so this is all off the top of my head, but your proposed email seems a lot like laying all your cards down on the table. Is it too soon for that?
My only advice is for you to consult your notes from your meeting with Steve. What do you think Steve would want you to do?
Now that I think about it, I agree with SDguy. Maybe just stick with the short and sweet flirty stuff for now.
Bugs,
I think you are moving in for the kill much too fast. Circle for a while because this beast isn't quite ready to be eaten.
Just my .02.....
Hi
Bugs,
I don't think I've ever posted to your thread before, but I follow along. You're in good hands, and I don't really have anything to add regarding your situation.
But this caught my eye:
I was very careful to be positive and have no judgments - which is a bit hard due to DSS being borderline overweight. Also, DSS made a comment about "My dad said he might PUT me in wrestling this year". The dr jumped on that comment and said sports should be what HE wants to do. I've made that statement before when Drac's PUT DSS in sports and it never went over well. In the email, I told him what was said, but made the comment "It's really hard finding something that really sparks DSS's interest, isn't it?".
Has DSS ever played on a rock climbing wall? I understand it's a good way to get an all-over workout, without the team sports and competition aspect. I hated team sports as a child, but I think I would have loved rock climbing.
<back to lurking>
Hey you all, I'm not ignoring your great advice/posts about the longer email, but I have a more pressing matter for the moment and I need your help!!
I replied to his email about next Thurday
Okey dokey.
I am staying over, as I plan to have some fun. One never knows just what that might include;);)
I'll make other arrangements for Ladybug
His reply
Wanna really have some fun - we should show up together. That would have them all talking
I'll be honest, my stomach just dropped when I read this. Fun & flirty is certainly getting some response.
so,,,,,,,,,,,NOW WHAT????????????
Someone please ANSWER, the suspense is killing me.
Bugsy:
About this:
"I just wanted to say thank you.
Thank you for your support last week during Dad's heart attack. As hard the entire situation was, knowing you were there for me made it easier. I wish I could express what that meant to me.
Thank you for calling me last night when my car would not start. I was really scared when I turned that key and nothing happened.
Thank you for the offer to come help me.
Thank you so much for keeping me on the Triple A membership and for letting me know that I'm still covered. Knowing that I am covered gives me a lot of peace of mind.
Thank you for the offer to drive Dad's truck while you would have to take a ride to get a company vehicle. It was one less worry for me and Lord knows that I could use less of those these days!
Thank you for allowing for the possibility of email interpretation being the issue in my message about DSS's doctor visit. I know that it is difficult with email. There is a lot of room for misunderstanding or taking things the wrong way. I wasn't trying to imply that I wasn't 100% willing to help with DSS.
I don't know if you have the letter I gave you last year when I asked you to communicate via email. I tried to explain in that letter why things have to be this way. I don't know if I did a good job of explaining or not. Probably not. We were both in a different place then. I may not have written it well and you may have taken it differently than I had intended. "
How about this:
"I just wanted to say thank you.
Thank you for your support last week during Dad's heart attack. As hard the entire situation was, knowing you were there for me made it easier. You also offered alot of support last night, and I appreciate that, although I had already other arrangements to resolve the transportation issues.
Bugs
Nothing about the email comm. (WAAAHHH)
IF he responds negativly to your "additional info email for DSS" I would send a reply to him and use the Plan B Para you wrote.
And leave it at that.
He stabbed you and continued to do so. He thinks because he ISN'T RIGHT NOW, that you should be nice to him.
NOT.
He dropped by to pick up DSS and kept it "business-like". Had he not, had he spent some time, or tried to make small talk. or "What additional info?" I would recommend differently. But he didn't. He was all business.
About the meeting next week, obviously GODDESS-DIVA, that's a given. About Drac's email? Well. I would let him lead on that. "Yes, you will be there, may get a sitter of ladybugs if I decide to stay longer." Flirty, but somewhat neutral. Let him lead from there.
Remember, he was stabbing you last month.
Let him start the process of atonement.
LG
Bugs:
My earlier post was not completed and I was stuck on the phone for business.
And then you had your little exchange with Drac.
This isn't "Let's give them something to talk about!"
Bonnie Raitt Drac is proceed down that path that Lexxxy described.
Be a little more "hard to get"
LG
Hey you all, I'm not ignoring your great advice/posts about the longer email, but I have a more pressing matter for the moment and I need your help!!
I replied to his email about next Thurday
Okey dokey.
I am staying over, as I plan to have some fun. One never knows just what that might include;);)
I'll make other arrangements for Ladybug
His reply
Wanna really have some fun - we should show up together. That would have them all talking
I'll be honest, my stomach just dropped when I read this. Fun & flirty is certainly getting some response.
so,,,,,,,,,,,NOW WHAT????????????
I LOL when I read this. Too funny. Is he predictable or what?
You could reply with, "Hey I think they wrote a song about that... "Let's Give Them Something to Talk About".
That song was the first thing I thought of, too.
As we worked together when we first met, it was a bit of a theme song for us back then. Also, it's in the movie with the same title. We both like that movie and that's where we got Ladybug's nickname. In the movie Randy Quaid calls their daughter doodlebug.
If you all know the movie Randy Quaid gets busted cheating but in the end pulls his wayward he head out of his rectum and they reconcile.
I think I like that response, Meggy. Simple without really committing one way or another.
Ok, so here's what I sent
Now that song is stuck in my head - "Let's Give 'Em Somthing to Talk about. Good movie, too.
His reply
That's why I'm afraid to eat your cooking.
In the movie, his wife's Aunt gives her a "special" recipe to 'teach him a lesson. She over does the special ingredient and he ends up in the hospital thinking she was trying to kill him when she just wanted to make him sick. It's really pretty funny.
So,,,,,,,,,,,here I am again trying to think of a reply.
I'm not sure I'd reply. Is there a question in there? What is there to say?
Let him chase you....don't respond too quickly.
It could be fun to watch him fall all over himself to apologize when he thinks you are offended by the cooking comment.
Don't yank the line before the fish has swallowed ALL the bait.
Fox
Perfect answer, Fox!
Besides, I had to unhook from my docking station and with no power cord, I'm almost out of battery!!
It's a sure sign that no response is the way to go for the moment.
I'm headed home and will check back in with you all when I get 'fully charged' again!
Thanks everyone!!
take it SLOOOOOWWWWWWW.
not too available. not too quick with responses.
each step should be well thought out.
its really cool that he is responding to you (not as a mommy).
I'd bet anything that the boyfriend questions from littlebugs were prompted by something he said to her. And as a direct result of the ballgame.
Don't be too available yet.
GOOD LAWD, WOMAN!!!
Yup, stop responding right now. Leave it there. Let him come to you, for each and every opening interaction that is possible (barring you contacting him about emergency changes and such). Let him email you with questions, and THEN you answer--you can throw something spicy in it and then walk away, EACH TIME. Don't give in and start talking on the phone too soon, either. Stick to businesslike conduct with a little Plan A mixed in until he is BEGGING for you to TALK to him.
You want to be the wife, not the friendly coparent, the entertainment or the HO ( I know you are not a HO BTW--you are much too much of a Goddess for THAT role). RESPECT and LOVE.
its really cool that he is responding to you (not as a mommy)
That's what I was thinking too!
Like James said, Bugs is walking a tightrope right now. I agree with the "wait until he really takes all the bait and buries the hook" sentiment. My gut says it is too soon and that Drac needs to keep defogging.
Plus, I'm afraid to see Bugs drop her protection too soon. I'm afraid I would drop mine too soon if I started seeing signs like Bugs is seeing, so I worry for her some.
However, I don't know [censored].
There was this guy that I think you talked to. He's got some experience with this sort of thing. Seems like maybe you dropped some money to get his opinion. What did Steve say? Review your notes. What would he want you to do right now?
Bugs:
James said this:
Bugs is walking a tightrope right now
The interesting thing is....
Her tightrope is about 6 inches off the ground.
She can step off any time. And walk away.
And if the rope got any higher, she has plenty of people around here to hold the net.
LG
GOOD LAWD, WOMAN!!!
Yup, stop responding right now. Leave it there. Let him come to you, for each and every opening interaction that is possible (barring you contacting him about emergency changes and such). Let him email you with questions, and THEN you answer--you can throw something spicy in it and then walk away, EACH TIME. Don't give in and start talking on the phone too soon, either. Stick to businesslike conduct with a little Plan A mixed in until he is BEGGING for you to TALK to him.
You want to be the wife, not the friendly coparent, the entertainment or the HO ( I know you are not a HO BTW--you are much too much of a Goddess for THAT role). RESPECT and LOVE.
DING! DING! DING! I think SL's got it!!
Ok, first things first. You all brought me to tears!
Let's see,,,,,where to start?
First, I did NOT respond. I left his last email with no response, which I agree was the perfect thing to do. Let him wonder.
Second, I TOTALLY agree that the previously posted proposed email is too much too soon.
Third, I consulted my notes. Steve and I discussed mostly the steps after getting Drac to admit that he's thought/considered 'us'. The lead up to that is mostly as you all have advised and that he warned me about - - Slow. Don't give him too much 'credit' too soon, question everything he does against my potential 'risk'.
Also, Steve told me to send him updates via email and to call with questions. I think I'll send him an 'update', and then perhaps call tomorrow to ask advice on how to proceed with drawing him in until he's swallowed the entire bait AND the hook is set.
SD,
I'm afraid I would drop mine too soon if I started seeing signs like Bugs is seeing, so I worry for her some.
However, I don't know [censored].
You have to be one of the sweetest men on the face of the earth! The SCQ is such a fool. You, my friend, know a great deal MORE than [censored]. Some woman is going to be VERY lucky to grab you up someday!!
Thanks for the concern. I think I'd be saying the same about you! Thanks, too, for the continued Arrow Sign pointing me back to the professionals!!
Lexxxy,
its really cool that he is responding to you (not as a mommy).
I so, "totally" agree. I never would have believed it possible.
each step should be well thought out.
Well, obviously I am not personally capable of this on my own just yet. I DO know this is necessary, so I will continue to count on you all to help me!!
I'd bet anything that the boyfriend questions from littlebugs were prompted by something he said to her. And as a direct result of the ballgame
You may be right. Do you think that the fact that today while DSS was in the car, I took a call talking about how much I am looking forward to 'tomorrow night". A mini ruse conversation with a friend that was structured by happenstance to where it could have sounded like a date to DSS. I felt a bit bad afterwards, as I don't want the kids in the middle, but if Drac is pumping them for information, I don't feel so bad about structuring my conversations based on that knowledge.
Don't be too available yet.
Again, am going to need continued help with this!
SL,
Yeah,, you are telling me?! That's what I thought this afternoon, too!
LG,
She can step off any time. And walk away.
Thanks for the reminder. Between you and Mimi, I can not possibly forget my Personal Goddess Power - and for that I am very grateful. I may operate in the Goddess realm, but it's easy to lose track of my personal power as I am navigating this path.
And if the rope got any higher, she has plenty of people around here to hold the net.
THIS made me cry. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Mimi/SL,
Quote:
GOOD LAWD, WOMAN!!!
Yup, stop responding right now. Leave it there. Let him come to you, for each and every opening interaction that is possible (barring you contacting him about emergency changes and such). Let him email you with questions, and THEN you answer--you can throw something spicy in it and then walk away, EACH TIME. Don't give in and start talking on the phone too soon, either. Stick to businesslike conduct with a little Plan A mixed in until he is BEGGING for you to TALK to him.
You want to be the wife, not the friendly coparent, the entertainment or the HO ( I know you are not a HO BTW--you are much too much of a Goddess for THAT role). RESPECT and LOVE.
DING! DING! DING! I think SL's got it!!
yes, I agree.
I just sighed a big sigh of relief for today. Think I'll take 5 for now.
I just have to say (again), thank you all so much!!
Wow Bugsy... I go and have pizza with the kids and you go and practically land a date with Drac?!?
Easy tiger.. not too much too fast.. you know that though, and I see you're in good hands.
It'll be interesting to see what Steve's take will be on this.. don't be suprised though if he tells you to back off a bit.. that exchange seemed pretty forward.
On a positive note.. I bet you're crossing his mind back and forth tonight..
be interesting to see how this plays out.
Got my corner of the net right here for you girlie..
Watching this unfold and watching you work and seek advice is absolutely incredible. And couldn't happen to a more deserving person.
I so want this happiness for you because you are the best and have worked so hard for this.
A few months ago I would be jealous as all get out, but tonight I am like a little kid in a candy store watching somehow who deserves nothing but the BEST in life get some for herself.
I am so proud to know you and watch this unfold. G-d is certainly giving you some glory.
{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}}
Also, Steve told me to send him updates via email and to call with questions. I think I'll send him an 'update', and then perhaps call tomorrow to ask advice on how to proceed with drawing him in until he's swallowed the entire bait AND the hook is set.
I think this is a great idea.
And I certainly don't mean to detract from any of the great advice you're getting on here by pointing you back to Steve. It's a terrific support network you have here!
The coolest part of all SD,
It's a terrific support network you have here!
WE ALL HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
How blessed for US...
Ok, so after his last email I have been totally dark.
Nothing from Drac all day -
Then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Holy Mother of God is all I can say right now.
That’s not cursing, that is a cry for help!!
As Ladybug would say, SERIOUSLY!
I just got off an hour and twenty -minute phone conversation with Drac! (well, it actually took me almost an hour to compose this post, too! )
Kids called me as usual, and they were at Drac’s friend’s down the street calling from DSS’s phone, so I knew Drac wasn’t there.
I had gone to Grandma’s house to mow her grass and have dinner. I had just gotten in the door when my cell rang with Drac’s number. I hesitated, but then answered.
He started by asking if the kids called. I said that they did. I could tell he was nervous. He admitted that he’d been out with a friend (a guy I know & like), and that he’d had just enough ‘liquid courage’ built up to call me.
It was such a long conversation, that I can’t possibly give a blow by blow, so I will try to put a list of what each of us said – and in no particular order other than it’s as I remember it.
Drac –
I’ve totally f*cked up my life
He never referred to the Ho by her name, but did once refer to her as “It”
Said he’s a bad man
All he ever wanted was to be a good dad
He’s no good
He understands that I could never trust him again
He’s done so much wrong
He isn’t even the man I knew when we met; he has LOTS more problems than that guy ever did
He very much misses talking to me
Told me of a brief bout with a cocaine problem
Thought about killing himself
Knows that his R with the HO was totally wrong
His R with the Ho was ‘messed up’ It was messed up even how they got together in the first place
Knows that he was losing Ladybugs because of his R with the Ho
Knows that the R with the Ho wasn’t right
Thinks he can never be a good H
Never wanted to hurt me
Doesn’t want to fight with me
Remembers and thinks often about how we were when we first met
We were great friends
We were a great team at work
Thinks daily when things happen, “I wish I could call and talk to
Bugs about this”
Has always told people he hopes I meet the man who I deserve and who can make me happy
He knows he can never make me happy
Believes I have always been too good for him
He never believed I needed him
He never believed that I loved him that ‘much’
He didn’t call to ‘hurt me’ again
He’s been wanting to call for some time
Thanks for taking the call
Thanks for the conversation
He said he ‘thought’ heI was going after what was going to make him happy
That’s what he ‘thought’ he was doing
He 'knew' I'd be just fine without him
He's messed up so badly
Things he's done have been all about HIMSELF
He's been very selfish
People (some who we consider friends) seem to somehow enjoy our pain
People have told him many things about me – such as when I travel I have a man in every city
He always known I am much stronger than him
He has been trying to show how much he does care and wants the best for me these last couple of weeks by being supportive and being a good dad
Ladybugs is the most precious thing in his life, she is the spitting image of me and he has nothing to do with how wonderful she is
I am a great mom
I am doing a great job with the kids
I am one of the most intelligent women he’s ever met
He’s been to ‘little sturgis’ for 3 years in a row, he’s seen more ‘boobs’ than most men and sitting there with all of the guys he stated that “Bugs still has the most beautiful, perfect ones,,,,,,,,,,,,and they are REAL”
It’s hard for him to be alone
He slept with his last ‘therapist’ (yeah WTF kind of therapist is that?)
He’s nothing more than a piece of a$$ to women
That’s all he will ever be
Because of the way he was raised, he will never be able to feel really loved
What should we do about meetings next week?
He hates the thought that people think we are enemies
He hates that I can barely look at him
Thinks I am too disgusted by him to be able to look at him
He can’t believe he’s telling me all of this
He wants me to be happy
One thing that's always been so hard for him was that we were such great friends
W
Bugs
Your life isn’t totally f*cked up
I am surprised I took your call, too, but I didn’t think you called to chat
You really have thought about us to the point where you think it things could never be repaired?
I’m surprise you thought of that
I thought all of this time you were ‘living the dream’
I thought you’d gone after what was going to make you happy and got it
I had no idea you were suffering
I am sorry you went through such a bad time
It makes me sad that you felt so badly you thought of dying
You aren’t just a piece of a$$
You have no idea how special you are
I know I didn’t show you how much I loved you, needed you
I’ve changed so much
I believe anything is possible when a person wants it badly enough
You have always been able to set your mind to something and then make it happen, even when no one else believed you could
I’ve always believed you could do anything
I have thought about how we were at the beginning, too.
I am sorry for not showing you – my love, my belief in you, my needs, my wants, my admiration
I have a whole new set of beliefs on how to live life
I know no other way than to be totally honest
I’m not judging you
Tomorrow, don’t be sorry for sharing; don’t worry about me judging you
I no longer try to give people the impression that I am something I am not
Life is too short
I know that I did not meet needs you had
You didn’t meet needs of mine
Instead of communicating we shut down
We were great
We were special
We were a great team
I’ve thought a lot about things – read- studied- learned
The first time in my life, after you cheated, I looked first at ME and saw that I needed to change
I’m not saying what you did was RIGHT, it is NOT but I have come to understand how affairs happen
You have no idea how badly you hurt me
I know now that the only reason it hurt so much is because I loved you so much
The person I am today is not the same person I was when we met either
I never would have married you if you were just a good piece of a$$
Your childhood does not have to dictate your life from here forward
You can and should be able to experience/trust in how much you are loved; it IS possible for you to have that
I had to stop talking to you because it hurt too much
I was dying bit by bit, very slowly
Do you think that I continued to be intimate with you, knowing that you were leaving me to go see the HO just because of sex?
Every time you were with me, I would hope and pray that you would stay
I had to stop dying, even though I really wanted to die.
I was at the edge of a cliff and ready to go off the edge
I had to stop talking to you or seeing you or I was going to go over that cliff
If it hadn’t been for a little boy and a little girl that needed me, I would have very easily ended up as you described yourself, lying naked on the floor trying to overdose on drugs and looking at a hand gun to end it all
Nothing in my entire life hurt me more than what you did to me
You DID make me happier than I have ever been
I never, ever cheated on you EVER in any way
I trusted you.
I felt you were my rock
When I leaned on you, I felt finally that I could breathe
I never felt more alive than when I was with you
I am sorry you never knew these things
I am sorry you never believed these things
There was a lot, lot more. A WHOLE lot of me building him up and reassuring him about himself, as well as my talking about how anything is possible in life. I wish I had a tape recorder!! Oh my!!!
He wrapped up the conversation by trying to be ‘funny and light’, which had to include some classic sexual innuendo. I somewhat played along, but not overly so. I let him take the lead on that. He ended by telling me to get some rest.
Bottom line is – I think he’s almost hit Bottom?? The one thing I didn’t hear tonight is “I am sorry.” “My affair was wrong”. At least not in those specific words. I have a feeling that he believes it would not help anything to say those words.
I know I just don’t know what to think, feel, or do right now.
It was very cathartic for both of us, but I think in a good way. It seems he is primed for the possible ‘next step’ to the MB path.
I am going to CALL Steve tomorrow. This is definitely time for a professional, but PLEASE tell me what you all think???
Some more things I remembered that I said
Today I am talking with the man that is more like the man that I met in 1999 than you have been for the last year and a half
If you were the man I have known for the last year and a half, I would not be speaking to you. You became someone I did not know and did not like
Yes, we were friends, but would you keep talking to a friend that had hurt you the way that you hurt me?
I am so pleased you recognized you were losing your daughter, because you were. I wanted to tell you, but you would not have believed me
Do you not think that your R with the Ho was like an addiction? Do you think it was just like the cocaine in that it ‘filled up’ that empty space you felt you had inside you?
I am surprised you wanted to talk to me
I have a lot to think about
WOW!
I have no words right now.
Just wow!
Eph!!
How ya doing? Talk about no words,,,,I am so surpised (and pleased) to see a post from you.
As you can tell, I am on the borderline of FREAKING out right now
I'd be on my hands and knees talking to G-d.... Asking for HIS guidance, for HIS will and then listening to HIM.
Queenie,
Thanks,,,,,,,,great minds think alike, as I'm THERE. We (G-d and I) have been in a BIG conversation. I'm trying very very hard to Be Still and LISTEN!
Oh woman, this is so COOL....
You deserve this LV, you deserve this chance, you have worked so hard for it. You handled it awesome in my opinion, TOTAL CLASS GODDESS ACT.
Still your heart, remember G-d loves you and has a plan for you if you TRUST him and he will walk you through it.
He NEEDS you to TRUST and have FAITH in him right now.
Do you journal or can you write notes for your call tomorrow?
Heres a mass reading for the day.
Psalms 51: 12 - 15, 18 - 19
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Restore to me the joy of thy salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.
13 Then I will teach transgressors thy ways, and sinners will return to thee.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation, and my tongue will sing aloud of thy deliverance.
15 O Lord, open thou my lips, and my mouth shall show forth thy praise.
18 Do good to Zion in thy good pleasure; rebuild the walls of Jerusalem,
19 then wilt thou delight in right sacrifices, in burnt offerings and whole burnt offerings; then bulls will be offered on thy altar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first reading.
Jeremiah 31: 31 - 34
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD.
33 But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, `Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
And the gospel..
Matthew 16: 13 - 23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare'a Philip'pi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?"
14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli'jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
22 And Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, "God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to you."
23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me; for you are not on the side of God, but of men."
WOW!
I have no words right now.
Just wow!
Yeah! What Eph said!!
That's GREAT, Bugsmom!!!
I'll bet you are really wired tonight!! I hope you get some rest!!
((((((((((Bugsmom))))))))))
Hugs of joy!!!
Charlotte
I'm very excited for you, Bugs. So far everything is going exactly the way they tell us that it can.
I would think the next step would be for Drac to talk to Steve.
Bugs,
I dont normally write to you but I have been following your thread since I came on MB.
This is so awesome, I am praying for you.
WooHoo!!!!!
Bugs,
As soon as I stop crying, I'll write more. I am SOOOO happy for you.
Queenie,
Thanks so much for the Scripture last night!! It helped me greatly. After posting everything I did, I was exhausted and went to bed with my Bible and read til I fell asleep.
Thanks everyone else for the posts!!
I was up and down through the night, and am pretty tired today. Definately feeling emotionally drained right now, too.
I do want to add here that one thing that I think is that Drac needs God. In fact, I know he needs God more than he needs me. It is my hope that as this moves forward, IF this moves forward, that God comes first, and the rest of this will then fall into place. I don't see 'us' working if it's not God first.
I have so much to do at work today!! I do not know if I will be able to post during the day, but know that I will be reading the board when I can off and on. Will be back later tonight.
I'm sitting here at work crying too.. I know that's not cool for a guy to do, but I'm soooooo happy for you Bugsy..
THIS is what we all hope and pray for..
I TOLD you that you were my hero..
Ok.. I'm a little jealous at this point of your success here, but DANG girl.. I just don't have the words.
YES.. talk with Steve.. get yourself together emotionally and mentally. This another step on a very narrow path, but if Drac REALLY feels the way he said he did.. and I still have nagging doubts about his sincerity.. and it will take TIME for you to trust his words as well...
I'm a little concerned that he had to have a few drinks to work up the guts to do this, and hope that it won't require alcohol to fuel further urges at R.. but I can't deny it's a start.
For God's sake be CAREFUL Bugsy.. I know you're going to have to take a few chances here, but make sure they are calculated risks..
Praying for you, Ladybugs, and Drac..
Praying a little for the rest of the BS's here still hanging on to hope.. and I pray that you know that your sitch has given a little hope back to some of us who have been teetering on the edge of rubbishing the whole deal.
CAAAAALLLL STEEEEEEVE!
i heard a lot of this stuff, Bugsy, just not as,um, well, just not AS much. The next step is to call Steve. Also, you need to hear this without the liquid courage. THEN, Drac needs to take the steps to get back to you. If I had to do it over again, I would insist upon a consultation with Steve H and have him begin his homework. A MB weekend might jump start things. Just thinking off the top of my head.
I didn't PUSH enough for the coaching. Hindsight. I can't do it over, but I would STRONGLY suggest you letting him lead. I think it's important that this NOT be so easy, that he recognize from the very beginning that this is going to take WORK and even more O&H.
This really is good stuff, Bugsy, so don't be discouraged by what I posted.
I do want to add here that one thing that I think is that Drac needs God. In fact, I know he needs God more than he needs me. It is my hope that as this moves forward, IF this moves forward, that God comes first, and the rest of this will then fall into place. I don't see 'us' working if it's not God first.
IMHO, this is absolutely the truest statement of ALL and the most WISE thinking you can have. This is why we went through this. G-d wants relationships with us ALL and you are absolutely correct on this, in order for our M to be restored and built on the firm ground of MB principles etc, G-d must be central to it.
I am just in awe of your understanding of this and how you are handling this.
Have an awesome day and I'll continue my prayers for you and your family.
{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}}
THIS IS EXACTLY THE CALL THAT I GOT, BUGSY..OUR "What about US?" call...and look at US..NOW...
I think it's GENUINE...
I think this is RECOVERY...
Because HE does speak about his MEMORIES of YOU..about HIS LOVE for you in the PAST...
That is what he still HAS..LOVE for YOU....
He does ADMIT that HE was WRONG...that's what YOU reported....
There is a lot of WORK to do...
He does, for example, need TO DO the NO CONTACT LETTER...
He does need to know that YOU can FORGIVE HIM...that RECONCILIATION does not mean that YOU WILL BEAT HIM UP...
Of course, this REQUIRES work with STEVE...
IMO, it's a DJ to REQUIRE him to get right with GOD..
That's HIS WORK and between HIM and THE LORD..which will and can happen but that is not your work now...
YOUR WORK is to SPELL OUT YOUR CONDITIONS...and what YOU WANT and EXPECT from him...
I THINK THIS IS IT..HE ENDED THE RELATIONSHIP ON HIS OWN..HE HAS ALREADY GONE THROUGH WITHDRAWAL..HE IS WANTING YOU..HE MADE THE CALL...TEXTBOOK AND PERFECT..TEXTBOOK AND PERFECT..WONDERFUL...WONDERFUL....
LET STEVE DIRECT YOU TO THE FINISH LINE!!
I don't see 'us' working if it's not God first.
This is critical and first on my prayer list for you. It sounds as if DRAC has been searching his heart and is beginning to realize that his life is a shambles.
He is at a very vunerable place right now. When my DH finally reached this point and even through the fog of alcohol he recognized that he was lost, without me, without the kids, and especially without God in his life. He reached out in his own way just as I see DRAC reaching out. What DRAC doesn't know is that God's mercy is far-reaching and everlasting.
DRAC believes he is beyond redemption in your eyes. You said some good stuff to him, I just hope he "heard" it.
Pray for God to speak to DRAC, in his dreams even, and that the blinders will be lifted.
Oh Bugs, definitely call or email Steve about this. Eventually you're going to have to decide if R is what you really want. It won't be up to DRAC. It'll be up to you.
(((Bugs)))
IMO, it's a DJ to REQUIRE him to get right with GOD..
That's HIS WORK and between HIM and THE LORD..which will and can happen but that is not your work now...
I think Mimi is on target here.. call it a DJ or a SD (even though it's not totally selfish).. it's still LBing..
However, I think it appropriate to point out that you can be the EXAMPLE here.. early on he's going to want to spend as much time as possible rekindling the flame IF HE IS TRULY BENT ON RECOVERY.. so I'm sure it wouldn't take much more than you and Ladybugs headed to church regularly, and making it clear he's welcome to come with you... and of course fervent prayer that God touches his life... to show him the way... and even if he doesn't go with you.. might not hurt to bring up over dinner or something during the course of the week 'You know.. I've been thinking about what Pastor/Father/Reverend etc said about...' to keep God in the conversation..
[quote=mimi_here]
IMO, it's a DJ to REQUIRE him to get right with GOD..
That's HIS WORK and between HIM and THE LORD..which will and can happen but that is not your work now...
I think Mimi is on target here.. call it a DJ or a SD (even though it's not totally selfish).. it's still LBing..
However, I think it appropriate to point out that you can be the EXAMPLE here.. early on he's going to want to spend as much time as possible rekindling the flame IF HE IS TRULY BENT ON RECOVERY.. so I'm sure it wouldn't take much more than you and Ladybugs headed to church regularly, and making it clear he's welcome to come with you... and of course fervent prayer that God touches his life... to show him the way... and even if he doesn't go with you.. might not hurt to bring up over dinner or something during the course of the week 'You know.. I've been thinking about what Pastor/Father/Reverend etc said about...' to keep God in the conversation..
As usual you two are correct, I get the difference and stand corrected.
Easy now Queenie..
Mimi is almost always right..
This is new practice for Jamesus
You are right more often than not. Take it when it's given.
I do want to add here that one thing that I think is that Drac needs God. In fact, I know he needs God more than he needs me. It is my hope that as this moves forward, IF this moves forward, that God comes first, and the rest of this will then fall into place. I don't see 'us' working if it's not God first.
Guys, I don't read anywhere in here to Bugs is "requiring" this of DRAC. She says it is her "hope" and that she doesn't "see" it working if God's not first.
She's not saying it's a requirement, but rather a hope. And it's a good one because it's true. What is it the scripture says about being unequally yoked? They are divorced. She can now CHOOSE whether to recover with DRAC knowing that he's not where he needs to be with God. It's a serious consideration.
Totally agreed PM..
I just think Momma Mimi and I might just be a little overprotective of Bugsy here and are offering up cautionary advice in the midst of our extreme happiness for her.
Hey guys!
I just got to the office and logged on to say this, because it is very important
Guys, I don't read anywhere in here to Bugs is "requiring" this of DRAC. She says it is her "hope" and that she doesn't "see" it working if God's not first.
She's not saying it's a requirement, but rather a hope. And it's a good one because it's true. What is it the scripture says about being unequally yoked? They are divorced. She can now CHOOSE whether to recover with DRAC knowing that he's not where he needs to be with God. It's a serious consideration.
Thanks PM for seeing this. It is not a REQUIREMENT. I agree, it is between Drac and God. It an important matter.
I don't want this time on my thread to turn into a religious/scripture debate right now.
Suffice it to say that there are going to be many elements to recovery If we go down that path.
Lots of work to be done.
I can tell you all that I know from my last session with Steve that right now, it's time for me to put out there the IDEA of recovery. The POSSIBIITY of Recovery. The next step is to have him say YES, I think I'd like to take a look at this 'idea', this 'possibility' and to have a session with Steve.
I am fearful of how to go about turning the conversation from HIS idea of 'wanting to be friends' to the possibility of recovery. This is a crucial step. Last night was about letting him get said what he was wanting to say - - about him reaching out and ME allowing him to do that safely.
I am NOT taking the lead on this. He left open the offer to contact him later last night, it was light hearted flirting that I would have definately responded to when I was in Plan A. I did not respond last night. This is TOO important to make it TOO playful right now. A BIT of playfullness is Important, Good & Required for sure. But I want him to think about that I DO have a lot to think about.
I HAVE to take care of some work issues this morning, so I HAVE to go,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thanks everyone and keep those cards & letters coming!
((((((((((((((BUGS))))))))))))
So glad to see you aren't letting yourself get swept up in all of this.
I know with that in mind you're going to do FINE.
Keep the Goddess shades on lady.. you're doing WONDERFUL.
I can tell you all that I know from my last session with Steve that right now, it's time for me to put out there the IDEA of recovery. The POSSIBIITY of Recovery. The next step is to have him say YES, I think I'd like to take a look at this 'idea', this 'possibility' and to have a session with Steve.
So the question is how do you do this? Just come right out and say it? Send him a letter? A card? Over the phone? I'm asking because I DON'T know. I didn't get this chance to do it the right way. So, I'll just sit back, read and learn.
I'll just say that IMO, GOD will take care of DRAC..already IS working on him...
I'm in agreement with everyone..including Bugsy..that she has to focus on HER OWN WORK...
And I agree, Bugsy.
There needs to be CLEAR COMMUNICATION that you don't want to be HIS FRIEND but HIS WIFE again...Well, in my viewpoint, you're still HIS WIFE, divorced from a LEGAL point of view but not SPIRITUALLY..antyways...
I just think, from what you are saying, that all the necessary elements are THERE...
PM, Bugsy has stated that she wants to RECOVER..that's what got this recent stuff started..her moves in that direction..and your OPENING up some lines of COMMUNICATION has been a FACTOR here Bugsy...
He's looking for YOU to take the LEAD. Remember, like my H, you have been the MICROMANAGER in the RELATIONSHIP and he will be looking for you to play that role in this..he will NEED for you to play that role in this...
Like my H said..PUTTING OUT THE BREADCRUMBS for him to find his way HOME...
That's what I hear that he is MISSING..HIS FAMILY and a SENSE OF HOME..not JUST YOU..that's what makes this SIGNIFICANT now...
There will be a need for you and Steve to let him know that this is possible and how to accomplish this...and that it has been done by MANY OTHERS...
Oh, Bugsy, I am so thrilled for you. That conversation alone can be very healing. Recover or not. You're right, there was no apology and you need to make sure that happens and he doesn't just sweep it under the rug (ASK him for it if you have to at some point.)
I think using liquid courage is pretty common. That way if it goes bad he can blame it on the booze.
I was glad to see your last post, Bugs. About not pushing too far too fast.
He has not asked to come home. I think he needs to lead on this. HE must want it. It needs to be his idea.
I think your hints of recovery need to be very subtle. It MUST be his idea and he must pursue you if that is what he wants.
One thing that bothered me when you posted about a previous email convo between you and Drac was about going to the work function together and how that would give everyone something to talk about.
Did he think about what they might say? Does he think they are thinking about everlasting love and devotion when they see you as a couple again?
IMO, he would be trying to redeem himself with his co-workers. There's really no thought of how Bugs may be viewed.
It isn't important what others think, this is your life and your choices. However, if the opinion of others is important to Drac and he makes comments about "showing them" - then he may not realize he is USING you to SHOW THEM. YOUR thoughts and feelings should be at the forefront.
He still needs to look outside of himself, IMO.
Just rambling thoughts and I'm sorry if I was a downer. I really am thrilled for you and hope he puts his whole heart and soul back into the family.
Fox
I don't think you should PURSUE him...
HE DID CALL YOU FIRST..after you being DARK...
BUT..I still think you can LEAD on the IDEA of RECOVERY as recommended by STEVE...
Drac does not have the information that we have about this being POSSIBLE and how it can be BEST ACCOMPLISHED...
That's what I've been talking about you LEADING ON...
I do think that conversation is FULL OF HOPE for RECOVERY...There's LOTS of LOTS of indication of that, IMO...
HE SOUNDS MUCH LIKE MY HUSBAND DID OR EVEN MORE REPENTFUL because he's been through much of his WITHDRAWAL, I think...
But, of course, consult with STEVE...
Wow.
I don't have much time to post, I'm leaving for the weekend and will be without internet.
But, I think he needs to know he can be forgiven and that this can be fixed. He didn't want to go that far, because he has no expectation that you would listen or respond.
I disagree that he didn't say it was "wrong" -- I think that is very much the message he was trying to send you. He may not have come out with those exact words -- but he's damn close.
And close to apologizing too.
He needs to feel safe. I'm so glad you responded to him, and had so many positive things to say back to him. It was really important when he "put himself out there" that you not hurt him.
And you did a really wonderful job of protecting your boundries and yet responding to him positively.
I am so glad you have been preparing for this!!!
Can you imagine that conversation if it had come out of the blue with no MB prep??? It could have gone very badly and your H (not drac) would have gone back into hiding!
You are amazing!
Can you imagine that conversation if it had come out of the blue with no MB prep???
I was typing the exact same thing when you posted this.
Good signs but tread carefully.
Go back and read all the things he said. A lot of it is self pity. Much of it is just about him. SL and Believer both heard a lot of this.
The line that stood out to me was, "I don't like being alone." Spoken like a true male.
I think this is almost the whole reason SL's zombie came back for his grand finale.
But.....there was more to this one methinks.
What a lesson in the workings of the MB method.
A lot of it is self pity. Much of it is just about him
I thought the same thing as I was reading it, but I think this is normal for most people. We have to be guided to look inward and express how we've harmed others without the self pity.
I also believe that the TONE of the conversation was a little deeper than my first contact with the Zombie. I think SEEING is going to be believing. When I saw the Zombie, he still carried a little bit of that faraway look in his eye, like he was disconnected. I thought it was withdrawal. I believe he was sincere in his WANT to be recovered, just not in how much he was willing to do to get there. This is why I think it's critical that Bugsy get Drac to Steve, IF they decide to give this a try.
I believe he was sincere in his WANT to be recovered, just not in how much he was willing to do to get there.
This is KEY. IMHO.
Fox
This really is good stuff, Bugsy, so don't be discouraged by what I posted.
But pay attention to it all the same.
This is why I think it's critical that Bugsy get Drac to Steve, IF they decide to give this a try.
I think I would make it a condition. If you want to come home, then you must work with Steve.
Let Steve be the gatekeeper for you, Bugs. This certainly seems to be textbook, so Steve will have worked with these people plenty of times before. Get his opinion on where Drac is.
(((Bugs)))
When I saw the Zombie, he still carried a little bit of that faraway look in his eye,
And, FWIW, I think that the Zombie was NOT textbook. I don't think he was a garden-variety romantic affair wayward spouse. He was/is more seriously broken than that.
Hi everyone!
Sorry for not being able to respond today, but it's a bit crazy at work. 2 hour conference calls really mess up my day, not to mention my MB posting time!
Ok, I emailed Steve and update and left him a VM. I am sure it will be next week before I hear back, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I think I can manage using the previous coaching he gave me. (I hope!
)
There's so much in your posts that I want to respond to - I hope I don't miss anything!
From my previous conversations with Steve, it is about laying out the breadcrumbs for Drac to follow YET also letting him do the actual Pursuit of me.
PM, it will be done however I think will work best, but it was to 'start' with little hints and comments leading up to asking him to give Steve an hour of his time. Comments like "have you ever thought about there being an 'us' again". I asked that question last night and it was a Yes from Drac.
Last night, though, wasn't yet the time to take that next step to the call with Steve. I think we both needed to get things out there. As Lexxxy has said, Drac needs to feel 'safe'. It's not going to happen with just one nice conversation. Also, I need to see continued signs of interest from him to believe his interest is real, too.
About the 'liquid courage', it wasn't what Drac had lead me to believe. That was a 'cover' just in case he was rejected. The friend that he was with told me they each had 4 beers. For Drac, that's a drop in the bucket.
About the meeting next week, yes I think you are right Fox in that he is concerned with his 'image', but I also think that was a bit of a 'cover' as well. A way to work me into a friendly position with him under the cover of work. When he asked me what we should do, my reply was "I feel no need to do anything. I don't care what anyone else thinks. It's none of their business. If it gives them pleasure to gossip, that's on them. I don't need or require their approval in my personal life."
Oh, don't you all worry - I TOTALLY see the degree of 'self' in his comments along with his own little pity party he was throwing. I wasn't blind to it at all. Nor was I blind to how important my responses were in that regard. I was going for what Lexxxy commented on,,,,giving him comments to help him see that he can be forgiven and this can be fixed. He doesn't yet believe that. For the next step to happen, he needs to believe it is possible.
Mimi, your input with the comparison to your H is so helpful to me!! thank you!
At the same time, I was trying very hard to keep my boundaries. I was totally honest about the pain & suffering I have endured. I was totally honest about everything.
Including how he was losing Ladybug. THAT right there, the fact that he RECOGNIZED he was losing her because of the HO and that he did something about it is very KEY to my believing this is for real.
Also, when I was being honest with him about what he's done, how I feel/felt, he did not try to argue or excuse his actions/behavior. I think that also goes to the plus column for it being for real.
So, I think more time is needed for him to believe in the possibilities. I left him with that thought - telling him to believe in possibilities.
Today, I've heard nothing from him. I think he may be a bit skiddish after everything last night. I sent a friendly, but factual email a short while ago about kid stuff. I wanted to keep the door open a bit, but not overly invite him in (even though it's hard not to).
And God in Heaven Thank you Thank you - - and thank YOU all for my being 'prepared' for that conversation!! I would have TOTALLY
screwedmessed it up otherwise!!
I intend to continue to proceed with Caution. And, at the same time, I'm carrying on with 'my' life. I am making plans for an out of town Girl Trip over Labor Day weekend. He will have the kids.
I haven't told anyone besides you all about last night. I'm not ready to try to 'defend' or discuss my position on this with anyone outside MB. I know I 'want' recovery, but a lot of the actual forward movement of that depends on Drac.
I'm more hopeful today than since that dreaded DDay. For that I am extremely thankful. And, as Fox said, even if recovery doesn't happen, to have had the conversation we had last night helps a great deal. I KNOW he's realizing what he has lost.
Time will tell if he's willing to work to get it back.
And actually, he's not getting back what he lost. He'd bet getting something and someone BETTER than before!!
Love ya all!!!
Including how he was losing Ladybug. THAT right there, the fact that he RECOGNIZED he was losing her because of the HO and that he did something about it is very KEY to my believing this is for real.
Also, when I was being honest with him about what he's done, how I feel/felt, he did not try to argue or excuse his actions/behavior. I think that also goes to the plus column for it being for real.
EXACTLY!! That's what I was thinking...
I think he needs to do some more SUFFERING..waiting for YOU to call him..DON'T...
Like you have said and as suggested by Steve, let him PURSUE..
I think he's probably waiting for YOU now and when you don't start CHASING, he will WORRY and that's what he NEEDS to do..WORRY...come up with some other reason to reach out to you..
Hi Bugs,
I don't have a lot to add...you're getting great advice....just dropping by to let you know that for a 'bunch of us' you are in our thoughts, and even though we may only be lurking, we are rooting for you...all the way!
You are doing GREAT!
((((((((((((((((((BUGS)))))))))))))
don't mean to t/j Bugsy...I am doing well. I'll post an update soon.
You are doin' mah-ve-lous!
I will be praying for you.
Wow Bugs. You have been there and back. I have read your posts. And I am glad things are looking better for you. Everyone has given great advice and support. I just wanted to let you know I am happy for you.
Bugs,
Be sure he has met all your conditions before you let him return.
While he may be a broken man, he might not have hit bottom yet.
I don't want to rain on the party here, but please go slowly with all of this. It is so easy to get wrapped up in the excitement of an opportunity and when it doesn't play out like it should have we either get more depressed or worse...
We try to force it into what it is not.
You have an opportunity, don't waste it.
But you also need to make sure you are not settling for the old status quo or you'll be back here in a few years...
Or your resentment will eat you alive...
Decide based on FACTS rather than feelings.
Sorry to rain on the parade...
Mark
Decide based on FACTS rather than feelings.
Thank you, Mark... because this is exactly what we count on here... help from the Board to keep the 'facts' straight!
Sorry for the t/j Bugs.
Eph, I am looking forward to that update from you!
APF - thanks for stopping in and for the support!
Mark, no apologies are necessary. I didn't take it that you were raining on my parade at all.
You are just helping me watch out to keep me from creating a storm of my own. That's good advice and I appreciate it.
Steve and I talked a lot about that in our last session. I read up on those notes every day and intend to protect myself as much as possible.
What I am doing IS a big risk and there is potential for hurt - I need to tread carefully to keep that level of potential hurt as low as possible at any given moment. As our interactions deepen, that level is going to naturally rise.
Great rewards require great risk. But that doesn't mean it should be done hap-hazardly on my part!
Before I read Mimi's response last night, I had sent Drac an email - I'd passed a park where we went on our first date. I emailed "Just passed the park on X Street. Thought of you. Made me smile".
Drac emailed back about the park and then about the kid stuff about 11:30 last night. I replied to the kids stuff first and it was 'done' with fairly quickly.
His reply on the park "I thought of that night when I drove by there the other day"
I replied, "Really? What did you think about?"
Drac, "The details of the night, how nervous I was, that sorta stuff"
Bugs, "I had no idea YOU were nervous?! I could not believe you were attracted to ME. What would you possibly see in me?!"
Drac, "I felt the same way"
Bugs, "I saw you as an amazingly smart, sensitive guy. Someone who saw me the way I wanted to be, someone believed in me.
You made me feel like I was special. Like I was important, and that I could be/should be a part of something wonderful - a part of his life".
No reply from Drac. While I was honest, I wish I had replied MORE about what I saw in him, what I found attractive about him VS how he made me feel. But, what's done is done. Next time I'll do better.
While a tad disappointed to get no reply, I'm not too surprised. I think it's going to be a bit of a game of cat & mouse for a while and I must be careful not to overplay this. I think he 'needed' to be the one to not reply because during the 'something to talk about' conversation the other night *I* was the one that stopped replying without stating the conversation was finished.
That's ok
Other than I had a nightmare last night that the HO was back. UGH! I'm not going to let it ruin my day. I have total yard work day planned today. Am starting early as I have plans out tonight.
Have a great Saturday!
Bugs,
Without a doubt you are walking a tight rope that borders with emotions and intellect. You have worked hard for this opportunity, studied, learned, asked questions and sought G-d.
You are getting some amazing advice on here, some that is what you want to hear, and then some probably not, but just as appreciated.
I am amazed at your restraint to not just walk forward and the heck with the advice of taking it slowly, but then I understand you or anyone else doesn't want this to be false or blow up in your face a few years from now.
So, KISS, keep is simply silly. EASY DOES IT. Let Go, Let G-d and know that G-d has a plan for you. HIS PLAN is beyond your wildest imaginations because you have been loyal to HIM. TRUST him, walk in FAITH with HIM, because he loves you more than you understand and he will give you everything you NEED.
You are the PRESIDENT of our GODDESS society, we love you and are just so proud of how you are doing this. Why, just think there could be another book on the horizon from the Harleys' using YOU as the example. That's how strong, amazing and inspiring your walk is today.
{{{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}}
Bugsy:
This is great news.
Many of the same things came from me and were said by Flamingo on D-day.
Different circumstances, possibly you can have a similar ending.
About "liquid courage" I know that you backed off of this, but remember, the "drunk man says what the sober man thinks"
And you note that "he only had 4 beers, which isn't much for Drac", I would give GREAT PAUSE to continuing with Drac without his drinking being addressed.
You read Silent's story, so, you don't want Drac back and then have him turn into a Zombie.
You have dropped enough bait. Take it slow, respond to him, and offer a little more each time.
Keep your list of WHAT he has to do to reconcile in your pocket, for now. Bugs was ALWAYS fixing stuff, right? This is HIS to fix. You have your boundaries, and those have to be met. ANd you will KNOW when its time to either give him the list and/or tell him what steps you will require.
Its really great news. No matter WHAT I might be saying above, this is really great news.
LG
Hey Queenie!
Thanks for the sweet, sweet post! Just don't go getting too carried away now! I am really just doing the best I can and making mistakes along the way. I don't think we're anywhere close to being 'book' material!
LG,
Thanks for the wise words.
Many of the same things came from me and were said by Flamingo on D-day.
This is good to know. Gives me hope. Of coure the outcome depends on the level of sincerity and commitment that will need to come from Drac.
About "liquid courage" I know that you backed off of this, but remember, the "drunk man says what the sober man thinks"
Or as we were discussing at church last week, "out of the heart, the mouth speaks".
And you note that "he only had 4 beers, which isn't much for Drac", I would give GREAT PAUSE to continuing with Drac without his drinking being addressed.
You read Silent's story, so, you don't want Drac back and then have him turn into a Zombie.
Please let me clarify this. I didn't mean that 4 beers isn't much because Drac drinks a lot. I meant that if he were 'blaming' the alcohol for the things he was saying, 4 beers isn't enough to loosen his tongue that much. He's a BIG guy and it takes more than 4 beers for him be what I'd call an 'emotional' drunk.
I appreciate the caution, and most certainly don't need to have SL's sitch repeated here.
You have dropped enough bait. Take it slow, respond to him, and offer a little more each time.
Well, this speaks to the title of my post today. I made a mistake, and it could be considered a pretty major one. I worked outside ALL day yesterday and perhaps I can blame it on 'heat stroke'?
I had this nagging thought all day long and ended up acting on it when I should not have.
Last night had plans to go out with a group of friends. It's somewhere that Drac and I went when we first met. I kept thinking about his wanting things to be like when we first met. So,,,,,,I left him a message saying that I'd be there with friends if he wanted to come by.
I was drying my hair when he returned the message and so I missed the call. He said that having a couple of drinks with me sounded really good, but he'd had a really bad day. He had planned to go to his dad's with the kids in the afternoon, but had ended up having to work. He took the kids with him in the morning, and Dad had picked them up after Dad got off work mid day. He was on his way to Dad's.
He said that while it sounded fun, he didn't think that he wanted to go out with a group of friends. He'd like go out with just the 2 of us so that we can have a chance to talk.
So,,,,,,,,,,it while it was TOO forward on my part to invite him. I "think" that it turned out OK. He has said he wants to spend time with me one on one and that he wants to Talk.
That's good, right?
Of course, it really depends on what he wants to talk About.
I have no thoughts/idea of when or how this might happen. I PROMISE you all and myself that I am going to WAIT for HIM to invite ME for this.
With this week's crazy schedule, I seriously doubt that it can happen before the work meeting Thursday. I wish it could happen before that.
So, I went on out with my friends last night and had a really good time. I wasn't out late, as I was too exhausted from all of the work/heat. I talked to the kids who confirmed they were all spending the night at Grandpa's last night. Ladybug can't wait to get home. She's been "really missing you Mommy" all week and counting down the days to today on every phone call.
I woke before 5 a.m. this morning. I've walked the dog, shocked the pool, am doing laundry, and have pulled weeds 1/2 way around the pool already! Let's hope I can continue being that productive today!!
Please, guys,,,,,,,,,,don't beat me up too badly on the invite to Drac. I KNOW it was a big mistake.
Bugs,
I sit here with tears streaming down my face and my children are asking me what is "wrong." I think there are many others reading your post with tears flowing. I have read your thread since joining, and I shed tears of joy with the others. Yes, it may be just a flicker of a flame for now, but even a flicker sheds much light in darkness for others to see their way.
I rejoice with you Bugs and I rejoice myself because it has helped to renew my hope that I may see the same some day.
Thank you for sharing yourself and leading the way for many of us on this long journey.
Tired
Bugs,
A mistake? Probably, but I'm of the opinion that if he REALLY wants to come back home, that invite isn't going to discourage him. Just go dark again and let him invite you out for the next one.
And I don't blame him for not wanting to be with a bunch of girls. Right now, he is probably embarrassed by this whole A thing and the fact that he did make a mistake and now knows it all too well, and perhaps maybe sensitive to what your friends think of him right now too. He's saving face I believe. It will take a long while before he is comfortable being with you in front of others. Does that make sense?
Hi Bugs,
Good to hear to enjoyed your night out with friends.
..I'm of the opinion that if he REALLY wants to come back home, that invite isn't going to discourage him.
...think CL is right, Bugs. I wouldn't worry too much about it...
...the 'ball' is in his court... wait for his 'serve'...
(((((((((((BUGS)))))))))))))
((((Bugsy)))
I do think that it was a MAJOR MISTAKE on your part.
I've been THINKING about this and can't figure out what happened with you.
No need to BEAT yourself up about it, though.
Drac's RESPONSE is GREAT NEWS..so APPROPRIATE and NORMAL from him, indicating that he DOES want to RECOVER..because that is EXACTLY what is necessary FIRST, a one on one conversation between the two of you and that DOES need to HAPPEN and you need to be PREPARED for that in terms of being able to speak to him about how RECOVERY IS POSSIBLE.
But, Bugsy, are YOU READY for RECOVERY?
IT IS NOT FUN AND GAMES...
IT IS THE ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS THAT I HAVE EVER DONE...
You will need to FOCUS YOUR LIFE ALMOST ENTIRELY ON YOUR MARRIAGE...
There will be limited contact with your girlfriends...
You may need to get a whole new set of friends or even distance yourself from your family...
It is not REALISTIC and is INSENSITIVE to expect that you can just start back like it was before..you and Drac going out with your GIRLFRIENDS..TOTALLY UNREALISTIC..I'm willing to say IMPOSSIBLE for many YEARS to come...
Get it?
IMO, it would be recommended for you to send him a SHORT note of APOLOGY...because this probably was VERY SCARY for him...
I admire his GUTS almost in proceeding with the idea of meeting with you...
I say this out of LOVE and ADMIRATION for you, Bugsy...
Is this what YOU want to do?
Are you sure?
I'm wanting you to CHECK yourself and figure out what was up with you to ASK him out with your friends??? I just don't get it...
I think he needs to do some more SUFFERING..waiting for YOU to call him..DON'T...
Like you have said and as suggested by Steve, let him PURSUE..
I think he's probably waiting for YOU now and when you don't start CHASING, he will WORRY and that's what he NEEDS to do..WORRY...come up with some other reason to reach out to you..
DITTO
I'm wanting you to CHECK yourself and figure out what was up with you to ASK him out with your friends??? I just don't get it...
Mimi's question is a good one, it will be helpful to you in the future to look at this closer NOW and learn from it... because as she confirms, I can see how it would take a long time for ANY WS to be comfortable again in a 'social setting' such as you were proposing to Drac....
What I hear the pros of M recovery say is... that if personal recovery is like climbing a mountain, M recovery may be comparable to.. a chain of mountains!
...I hear them saying: M recovery may be the toughest gig yet, and if so, do you still want it, Bugs?
Bugsy, are YOU READY for RECOVERY?
IT IS NOT FUN AND GAMES...
IT IS THE ONE OF THE HARDEST THINGS THAT I HAVE EVER DONE...
You will need to FOCUS YOUR LIFE ALMOST ENTIRELY ON YOUR MARRIAGE...
Know what Mimi? For as long as I've been here, I still haven't found an effective way to warn spouses about the level of difficulty and the sheer effort and willpower recovery will require. No one expects themselves to experience more and enduring pain and deeper despair once they reach the recovery phase after an affair.
If you discover a way to communicate this - please let me know.
And also a way to communicate the deep and enduring rewards of recovery - in spite of the pain.
Perhaps no one can know until they are "in it" themselves ??
Pep
Know what Mimi? For as long as I've been here, I still haven't found an effective way to warn spouses about the level of difficulty and the sheer effort and willpower recovery will require. No one expects themselves to experience more and enduring pain and deeper despair once they reach the recovery phase after an affair.
If you discover a way to communicate this - please let me know.
Possibly understanding that recovery is like recovering from an addiction. It takes all your energy, time, effort, faith, and understanding. You are learning an entirely new way of being together.
That is becomes your priority and you have to take painstaking measures to protect what is happening in a healthy manner?
Since I'm not there, I am really just guessing.
Possibly understanding that recovery is like recovering from an addiction. It takes all your energy, time, effort, faith, and understanding. You are learning an entirely new way of being together.
That is becomes your priority and you have to take painstaking measures to protect what is happening in a healthy manner?
A+ on your answer, Queenie.
I think this is stated ELOQUENTLY and is RIGHT ON TARGET!!
Very nice! I like it.
I also think Luna's word picture is effective (for us visual learners).
if personal recovery is like climbing a mountain, M recovery may be comparable to.. a chain of mountains!
.... and you begin to climb the "chain of mountains" already worn out and beat up and exhausted .... and you can only see the first mountain ... you only discover more mountains after reaching the summit of the first mountain.
On second thought - this might just scare people off .... :RollieEyes:
Just back from church and catching up on the great replies!
I'm wanting you to CHECK yourself and figure out what was up with you to ASK him out with your friends??? I just don't get it...
I can tell you exactly what I was thinking. Based on conversation the other night, while I was open, supportive, and positive with Drac, I did not state to him that I was open to friendship/relationship.
As his first indications were for being friends again, as we were when we first me, 'having SO much' fun together, etc. I thought that time together without the Pressure of any R talk MIGHT be more appealing to him. BTW - it was a mixed group guys & girls. It was (what
I thought and likely wrongly thought) a less pressure sort of invitation that let him know I was open to seeing him beyond kid pick up/drop off or work.
I also thought it would help guage his leanings a bit better - to perhaps uncover if he's thinking just "friends" or more than friends(as in relationship/recovery)
Drac's RESPONSE is GREAT NEWS..so APPROPRIATE and NORMAL from him, indicating that he DOES want to RECOVER..because that is EXACTLY what is necessary FIRST, a one on one conversation between the two of you and that DOES need to HAPPEN and you need to be PREPARED for that in terms of being able to speak to him about how RECOVERY IS POSSIBLE.
Agreed on all points. Being prepared is now the KEY focus here.
You will need to FOCUS YOUR LIFE ALMOST ENTIRELY ON YOUR MARRIAGE...
There will be limited contact with your girlfriends...
You may need to get a whole new set of friends or even distance yourself from your family...
I have thought of this, too. Especially in terms of family. It's going to be rough, but that's a hurdle I am willing to overcome if/when. I may be wrong, but I do not see my friends being unsupportive should we go into recovery. If they are not supportive, they aren't my friends.
Only 1 person IRL knows ANYTHING about this last week's events. She told me, "Now you have a chance, I think. This time, you make absolutely sure you get everything you NEED. That you are both in agreement and that you take your time." This was based merely on my telling her what he said on the phone the other night. She's had no idea that I have remained open to recovery. So, I know I can certainly count her in for support!
Know what Mimi? For as long as I've been here, I still haven't found an effective way to warn spouses about the level of difficulty and the sheer effort and willpower recovery will require. No one expects themselves to experience more and enduring pain and deeper despair once they reach the recovery phase after an affair.
If you discover a way to communicate this - please let me know.
And also a way to communicate the deep and enduring rewards of recovery - in spite of the pain.
Perhaps no one can know until they are "in it" themselves ??
Pep
Pep, I know you addressed this to Mimi as a a question and to me as an astute observation/warning. I can tell you I have thought about this A LOT these last few days. I've asked myself, "DO you really want to do this? Do you really believe you can do this? It is going to be As hard, if not Harder than the last year and a half"
The answer is Yes. I do want to do this. I intend to give it my All. But it does take 2. And as LG pointed out the other day, this tightrope I am walking is of my choosing and I can choose to step off at any time. Don't get me wrong,,,,I am not going into this EXPECTING to duck & run when things get hard. Not at all. I am simply acknowledging that this is MY choice and it will remain MY choice. One big thing I've learned better than I ever knew before is that I have choices, and I'm much better at knowing what they are and not being afraid to make them.
As to not knowing how hard it is REALLY going to be? I am sure you are 100% right.
I would expect it's just like every other part of this. Plan A is HARD. Yet we recognize up front it will BE hard going in. Yet, it's much HARDER than expected.
Plan B is HARD to believe up front that it will be very hard, especially at first. What's HARDER to believe about Plan B is that it DOES bring peace to the BS.
So, I expect nothing less from the Recovery Road. Hard, hard times,,,,,,,,,,,,,but GREAT GREAT reward.
.... and you begin to climb the "chain of mountains" already worn out and beat up and exhausted .... and you can only see the first mountain ... you only discover more mountains after reaching the summit of the first mountain.
On second thought - this might just scare people off ....
Hey now!! What's the big idea trying to scare me like that?? LOL!
What's that quote, something about the Journey of a thousand footsteps beginnging with just one?
I know the mountain range may be high, with jagged edges, loose rocks, slippery footing. There will be peaks & valleys. Yet as my hope lies in our doing this as a team, I believe it is possible.
Staying focused on one another and boosting one another to climb whatever next mountain appears in our path.
But how come you think that he could possibly handle a social setting? Do you think he's just back to being himself as if an affair didn't happen and has DESTROYED himself and HIS FAMILY?
I'm not talking about YOU being around your friends. I'm talking about HIS capacity to be around your friends.
HE IS BROKEN and it will take YOUR SENSITIVITY regarding this.
It has probably taken everything in him just to call you..just to call you...it would be like crossing an ocean to meet with you and then like going to Antarctica to ever get to the point of socializing with your friends.
I'm not sure in your post that you GET THIS...
I didn't know y'all were talking about MOUNTAINS while I was talking about CONTINENTS...LOL
Very geographical discussion today,,,,,,,,,,,,
Mimi - Sorry I didn't speak to the fact that YES, I do get what you are saying about him not being able/ready/capable of that kind of thing now or for some time to come. I kept my post strictly to what I was thinking at the moment I put that out there yesterday.
I don't think I really believe that yesterday. Obviously I didn't or I wouldn't have made the invitation the way I did. As I said, I wasn't sure of his intentions being about US. Knowing DRAC and I do mean DRAC I could see him thinking we would just be 'buddies' again IF he wasn't REALLY broken yet. DRACULA would have jumped on the chance for a Dark Night opportunity to just suck out some more of my blood only to leave me broken and battered, a new member of the undead.
His response says he's not full blooded DRACULA now. He's still fighting off some of the effects of his time spent on the darkside, but he's able to come out into the light of Dawn and appears more like the DH I knew.
I absolutely believe he is very broken and is going to need a great deal of help to heal. It's a hard concept for a BS,,,,to view their WS as needing healing. But it's one I think I have a clue about (not total understanding, but a clue).
Right now, I think the BEST location for US in terms of recovery will be a nice tropical deserted island,,,,,,,,just the 2 of us.
It's a hard concept for a BS,,,,to view their WS as needing healing.
This is what Pep and I can't understand.
This is something YOU HAVE TO GET....
You seem to understand or do you(?) that he is RECOVERING from an ADDICTION as Queenie explains...
Right now, I think the BEST location for US in terms of recovery will be a nice tropical deserted island,,,,,,,,just the 2 of us.
For starters, in the beginning, lots of this is NECESSARY..but you two will have to figure out how to LIVE..DAY TO DAY..IRL...
YOU HAVE TO BE READY...
You have to begin right now...
Learning NOT to be RULED by your EMOTIONS...like last night...
I was forewarned too about being READY for RECOVERY but still wasn't prepared for it...
I still recommend for you to send him a SHORT APOLOGY...
((((BUGSY))))
Quote:It's a hard concept for a BS,,,,to view their WS as needing healing.
WHY????
This is what Pep and I can't understand.
This is something YOU HAVE TO GET....
You seem to understand or do you(?) that he is RECOVERING from an ADDICTION as Queenie explains...
I do understand. I struggle with the 'impression' as a BS in the dark that it was HARDER for him over at HappyHoHouse and before that, than I ever imagined.
As the BS, I have lived with MY PAIN every moment of every day since this started. Due to the excellent teachings of MB, and outstanding folks here, I have 'known' for some time that HE, too has been in pain. Yet, not SEEING that pain for myself and having only heard about it from him 3 days ago, it is yet to seem completely real to me. (I wish there was a better word than 'real', but it's the best I could come up with)
I know how very important this is. I could not have had the conversation I had with him the other night if I had not been here at MB and learned about such things as the WS being in pain, having to go throught recovery from an addition.
Mimi, I can't describe what it was like. It was surreal. I truly know that the Holy Spirit was with me, helping me because afterwards *I* was amazed at how CALM I was. I didn't have the horrible feeling in my stomach that I expected I would have. I wasn't angry when telling him about my pain. I took absolutely no satisfaction from hearing about his pain - - and frankly, I always thought that I would. I am pretty sure he commented on that during our conversation, as he was surprised.
Anway,,,I'm rambling here. What I'm trying to say is that I understand, but my own experience, insecurity, & pain can get in the way. Recognizing that in advance is very important to not letting it happen in the future.
I have been re-reading all of the MB materials in preparation. I've gone back to the Basic Principles and am re-reading SAA. Other suggestions??
BTW - apology sent. "I wanted to apologize. You were right in that such a social setting wasn't a good idea last night. I should have thought of that. One on One sounds good."
I gotta go cook up some side dishes for Ladybugs softball team pool party this afternoon. She has a big surprise waiting - - they just found out they came in 2nd in their league!! whoo hoo!!
BTW - apology sent. "I wanted to apologize. You were right in that such a social setting wasn't a good idea last night. I should have thought of that. One on One sounds good."
GREAT!!! Now it's HIS TURN!!! GOOD WORK!!
Darn! I lost an entire post!!
I forgot to mention that last night he asked me to forward the email with details for Ladybugs pool party today. He was to drop off and I was to pick up.
While I was at church, he emailed, "My car is still in the shop, so I do not have my GPS. Would it be ok if I bring her to you around 4 to make the party?"
I replied that would work & please be sure she brings home tennis shoes so she has them for school this week.
Question - So WHAT he doesn't have GPS? He has internet to access Mapquest OR he could call the coach for directions, he has her number?
This also gets him out of having to come up with the requested 'side dish' and drinks to take for the party.
I was a bit miffed, as I had to rearrange a large part of my day, but I'm glad to have the extra time with Ladybug.
Then, I thought of something else. This gives us the opportunity to see each other that we would not have had with the other arrangement.
So,,,,,,,I'm going up now to iron the Goddess outfit I need to be wearing in an hour. I have Ladybug's dance pics to give him and a prescription I picked up for him for DS last week (he isn't aware I have either of these things).
No GPS in deed...
Honestly, some people can find any excuse to do what they want to do...
Like see someone...
Just like in Jr High...
Harrumphhhh...
Mark
No GPS in deed...
Honestly, some people can find any excuse to do what they want to do...
Like see someone...
Just like in Jr High...
Harrumphhhh
Harrumphhhh, indeed!
Well, it's hard to say what I think now that it's done.
They got here a bit before 4. I had the door and blinds open - something I've only starting doing recently. He got the kids out of the truck, but he stayed in the truck to wait while DSS visited.
Ladybugs was all dressed and ready for the party when she got here. DSS went upstairs to look for something in his room, so I said I'd take some things out to Dad.
I went out with the pictures & presription. He pulled out the pictures and looked at them. We talked about them,,,of course how great they are
He asked how much they were. I said I didn't know, it's been a while. He asked if he'd paid me, I said I didn't remember, I'd have to check. He was surprised about the prescription, and seemed pleased that I'd done that.
So, with that said there was no 'reason' for me to stay, so as DSS was taking a while, I said I'd go hurry him up.
That was it. Pretty much a non-event.
Ladybugs made a point to tell me that they are getting the air conditioning fixed in Daddy's car, that's why he has Grandpa's truck. Intersting, because I've never been privy to that kind of information before, and it was virtually the first thing she had to say.
So, it's almost pool party time!
BREADCRUMBS....One itty-bitty step at the time...
BREADCRUMBS....One itty-bitty step at the time...
Itty-bitty. Darn! I really, really was hoping for some of those giant leaps & bounds! I'm only partly serious about that - while of course I want to move forward sooner rather than later, I do NOT want to skip over any important steps. I don't want to miss any of that NOW, only to have to take steps back later.
So, today is the last day I let Ladybug stay up a bit late and sleep in this morning. Back to school schedule tonight, as her first day back is Wed.
What's anyone's thoughts about telling Drac it would be OK for him to come by for her first day of school? As in meet us at the school (if I take her) or meet us at the bus stop (if she rides the bus)?
Bugs:
About this:
What's anyone's thoughts about telling Drac it would be OK for him to come by for her first day of school? As in meet us at the school (if I take her) or meet us at the bus stop (if she rides the bus)?
NO. And NO!
Why?
Because it is you in the "mommy" roll and possibly the co-parent.
If he suggests something... MAYBE.
If he just shows UP? Then be a goddess, and thank him for showing up.
But do not suggest it.
You want him to see you as his ideal woman. Not as "mommy"
LG
ABSOLUTELY AGREE with LG!
Bugsy, I'm beginning to be concerned about your THINKING now.
Don't do ANYTHING before asking us.
I'm wondering if you are getting FOGGY or something.
LISTEN TO ME VERY CAREFULLY:
DRAC HAS TO MAKE THE NEXT MOVE. YOU GO BACK INTO DARKNESS.
Remember what I said before: IF YOU GET PLACED IN THE MOMMY ROLE NOW, THAT'S WHERE YOU WILL STAY WITH HIM!! He needs to pursue you as a ROMANTIC PARTNER...my opinion..
Dark Thoughts Dark Thoughts Dark Thoughts
Dark Thoughts
Drac? What Drac?
Don't do ANYTHING before asking us.
That's why I posted the question. Last year on the first day of school I was just a month into Plan B, and it was hard then not to want to include him in Ladybugs life.
Had the recent events not happened, while the thought would have crossed my mind that he would not be here for her first day, it would not have crossed my mind to offer for him to be there.
As it is on Wed, he will be picking her up for his week day over night. I had forgotten that. We are back to school year schedule. I do need to update the calendar, but I'm not going to do that for him. That would be more Mommy activities.
So, it's darkness until the meeting starts on Thursday. I don't know if he's attending the full day. I will be coming in 'late', as I have to get DD to school in the morning.
BTW - we had a GREAT time at the pool party. The parents are all really great people. We are talking about getting the girls into another league next year, where they play 'full' games and go to different surrounding communities to play. Her coach is checking into it and I think it's a great idea. Ladybugs is very excited about it.
I'm trying to get some work done - but am waiting to hear from Sis and Mom. Mom had her test this morning that was rescheduled from last week.
Ok, I need to finish a proposal and book some airfare.
As in meet us at the school (if I take her) or meet us at the bus stop (if she rides the bus)?
Side note....
Bugs, does Ladybugs take the bus on a regular basis. If she does, PLEASE put her on the bus to ride to school and then meet her there.
If it's anything like my school, it helps the office out tremendously in figuring out how students get home.
Thanks,
Bugs, I've been concerned that you are going too fast with this. SLOW DOWN.
And listen to Mimi. Post before you do anything and listen to what Mimi and LG tell you.
Had the recent events not happened, while the thought would have crossed my mind that he would not be here for her first day, it would not have crossed my mind to offer for him to be there.
How come he can't figure this stuff out on his own? Why would it cross your mind to OFFER? What's keeping him from showing up without you OFFERING? How come HE can't OFFER?
Hi Bugs,
...just in case you haven't already heard said enough times... :RollieEyes:
You will need to SLOW DOWN.... and allow Drac to take the LEAD...to help him FEEL like he's the....MAN!
Just a question -
Why doesn't Bugs want to appear in the mommy role? I understand the slow part - don't want him to think that he can come back too quickly or have it look too easy to get back - but I'm a little unclear on the mommy role thing. If he wants to come home, why would that make a difference? She IS the mother of his child, so I'm unclear about this as it relates to recovery.
Mimi, can you offer an explanation?
Chai:
The reason that Bugsy doesn't want to appear in the "mommy" role is because Drac would be estatic to get her to agree to that role.
And NEVER have any reason to move farther along to a romantic relationship.
Sure, we all KNOW that Bugsy is an excellent mommy. DRAC even knows that.
He KNOWS that she is SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT. But he will settle for less, if he can get it. "See, Bugs, I knew we could be friends!" Bleech.
Bugs:
I am not going to be as harsh as to say that you can't make a posting to Drac until you run it by us. I never want to second-guess you. You have the MB skills to fly well by the seat of your pants. And the sitch IS moving fast. I don't want you to think that IF you did something, then you come here and get beat up about it. Or we would argue amongst ourselves about whether it was the right thing to do. LilSis's thread would do that sometimes, and I'm sure it added to her tension. You want this SO MUCH. (Not with Drac, but with H) There is a way to get there. Your on the ground, flying in goddess colors, and trying, !trying! to do it right. We hope to guide you to that goal as best as possible.
LG
PS: When I said your tightrope was a foot off the ground, it wasn't to imply that your walk was easy. Just to say that YOU KNOW and understand your safety area. Your tightrope walking isn't so high in the air that you will get crushed if you make a misstep. Your fortunate in that you just get to dust yourself off and step back on.
(((BUGSY)))
LG
Stay dark, let him see your light in a measured way, and try to avoid
Thanks LG,
I see what you are saying, but not sure I get it totally. I guess my thoughts are that if he misses her and the family, still knows that he loves her and wants to come home (be M again), then why would he just be happy being only friends.
Maybe after this thing unfolds somewhat, I'll eventually get it.
Chai:
This has to do with what we know about DRAC during PLAN A...
He will CAKE-EAT..try to use BUGSY for the MOMMY stuff and then find himself a HO...
WE want him to FEEL THE PAIN of losing ALL of BUGS...RIGHT NOW...he has to SUFFER in order to be motivated to work on RECOVERY..if she MEETS any of his NEEDS then she EASES his SUFFERING and he is LESS MOTIVATED, having his CAKE...
I answered quickly...may have more time later...
She CAN be in the MOMMY ROLE with him IF..they reconcile..OR IF she decides NOT to RECONCILE...
Right now, WE WANT HER TO APPEAL TO HIM AS A ROMANTIC PARTNER..HIS ONLY ROMANTIC PARTNER...and he REMAINS HIGHLY ATTRACTED TO HER...from what we know about Bugsy's PLAN A...We want him to FALL IN LOVE with her again....like at the very beginning of a NEW RELATIONSHIP...
She does not want to be his FRIEND..she wants to be his WIFE...that's the FIRST STEP...
Chai,
It's a bit too early to say that Drac wants The Total Package - Bugs, Family, COMMITMENT, WORK WORK WORK on the marriage, etc.
Remember some of his comments the other night. He is no totally out of the fog and he certainly hasn't begun the real path of recovery. There's a lot of work yet to do.
If I would ease his pain on the parenting thing,,,,be a cooperative co-parent, a friend he can call for help, friendly & flirty - - - he'd be happy to take that and stay out in the world playing the field. He could have me meeting MOST of his ENs AND play the field for others at the same time.
In other words, he would go back to being a cake eater.
Despite some of the hurtful things he said to me about my R with DSS, he KNOWS I am a great Mom to BOTH kids. That's not what the focus of our recovery needs to be about.
It needs to be about HIM wanting ME in a new committed realtionship. Not just as the mother to his kids.
Does that help?
LG,
We hope to guide you to that goal as best as possible.
I know with all of my heart this is where everyone is coming from and I can never thank you all enough.
Yes, it's a bit difficult at times when I seem to have 'messed up', but that's ok.
You have the MB skills to fly well by the seat of your pants
I appreciate the vote of confidence!!
PS: When I said your tightrope was a foot off the ground, it wasn't to imply that your walk was easy. Just to say that YOU KNOW and understand your safety area. Your tightrope walking isn't so high in the air that you will get crushed if you make a misstep. Your fortunate in that you just get to dust yourself off and step back on.
Thanks,,, I 'get it'.
It's been a dark day. I was mistakenly copied on an email that was also addressed to Drac today. I did nothing with it other than hit delete so I wasn't staring at his name in my In Box.
Drac's Aunt called today to catch up. Ladybug went to visit her while they were at FIL's. We didn't talk about Drac other than she mentioned she asked his dad what was up with the visit from him, was he 'needing' something from FIL again? That question stems from FIL's comment to her a while back that the only time he sees Drac is when he wants something. That made me sad to hear.
Drac did some mowing for FIL while he was there, something he hasn't done for a long time. I was glad. FIL said that Drac wants him to move closer to where we live now. FIL is having none of that. Nothing new there.
This weekend is when Drac's family (cousins/Aunt/Uncle) are coming up for a pool party with me & the kids. I know they are all really looking forward to it, as am I. It will be interesting to see what, if any, reaction there is from Drac. During HappyHo times, he was ADAMANT that he did not like them still seeing me, talking to me, inviting me to family events. This may give us some insight if there is really change???
Tonight Ladybug and I will be pulling weeds in the backyard and doing things to be ready for the weekend. Which will probably end up being Bugs pulling weeds while Ladybugs swims! ha!
Mimi,
We were cross posting but saying the same thing!!
He will CAKE-EAT..try to use BUGSY for the MOMMY stuff and then find himself a HO...
Ahhhh,,,,, it feels good to know I've not totally lost my MB Goddess Powers!
If I would ease his pain on the parenting thing,,,,be a cooperative co-parent, a friend he can call for help, friendly & flirty - - - he'd be happy to take that and stay out in the world playing the field. He could have me meeting MOST of his ENs AND play the field for others at the same time.
In other words, he would go back to being a cake eater.
GIRL, I'm about to pass my BATON to you!! YOU HAVE SOOOOO GOT IT!!
Thanks guys,
I think I'm getting it now.....
Where are you all finding the cool icons?
Thanks, Mimi!
I have my hands full enough right now with 'normal' life and this potential opportunity called recovery. I couldn't hold that baton if i wanted to! I'm a long way off from having the total MB skills/knowledge to carry it. Maybe someday.
I'd like to think I will be qualified to handle as a Goddess In a Recovered/New Marriage. Time will tell.
I'm loving the new emoticons!!
I think this is my favorite -
These all seem appropriate before asking this question -
What do ya think Drac might think when Ladybugs gets her gift package from MCD? He called this morning to let me know it's being delivered tomorrow morning.
Chai,
When you reply, look at the tool bar right above. See the smile face? Click once and look what you can find!
ha!
Morning!
I had a nice evening with Ladybug last night. A bit of shopping, a bit of playing, and an early night as we are prepping for the regular school schedule that starts tonight.
She called Drac as usual, but got vm. When he called back, she was sitting on my lap and didn't get up. Since Plan B started last year, I always make a point to be in another part of the house when the kids talk to him on the phone. Usually, she loves to walk around & talk on the phone. Last night, she stayed put on my lap and I let her.
I'll be honest, apparently I was looking for a 'fix' of Drac exposure myself. It was good to hear his voice & how he talked to Ladybug. Very loving. Very supportive & encouraging talking to her about her softball success.
Interesting that he told her in detail about having to go to Chicago. He told her that he had to go there to bring back a truck for work and that he was leaving at midnight last night. A lot of detail about something that doesn't really impact her at all, she really had no reason to know that information. In fact, if he had not told her about it she would never have known about it.
Obviously, this kind of thing gets me to thinking. Not too much, but a bit. Perhaps I'm not seen totally in the "Mommy" role - as he did not contact me about having DSS last night. I'm sure DSS stayed with the employee/neighbor family down the street.
So, it could be the 'keeping Bugs totallyoutta my life and handling it on my own' scenario or it could be not putting Bugs totally in the Mommy role scenario.
No way to really know. So, no more brain cells will be exhausted on that debate. I thought about it, am owning up to that, and moving on.
Shower time,,,it's been nice & cool here in the evening so good sleeping weather with the windows open! Of course, as I usually sleep BEST between 4 am and now, I overslept a bit!!
Hey Bugs --
I'm baaaack! (was gone for a long weekend....not sure you noticed, but I seem to have missed out on some developments!)
Anyways.....I think everyone is right, that you need to go dark again. Pull away and let him chase.
I think what brought a LOT of this on was seeing you at Ladybugs game with another man. This gave him a panic-attack that you might soon be out of reach...and that is what made him start chasing.
This is a marathon -- keep your pace. Don't slow down.
Drac is sprinting then resting, sprinting then resting.
Let him find the pace. Let him feel like you are still pulling away from him.
I'm glad Ladybugs has a gift coming from MCD. I hope its something she is really excited about and tells Drac all about it.
Don't make this too easy for him. Let him sweat a little.
He MUST make the next move.
Bugsy:
What about this:
Interesting that he told her in detail about having to go to Chicago. He told her that he had to go there to bring back a truck for work and that he was leaving at midnight last night. A lot of detail about something that doesn't really impact her at all, she really had no reason to know that information. In fact, if he had not told her about it she would never have known about it.
Why wouldn't he? I know, why would a 7 year old care?
But he was talking to his daughter, and after she told him all about her day, he told her about his. Didn't you tell Ladybugs about your day?
HE may be Drac, but he is a father. And not a bad one from your earlier statements prior to his Ho-down.
You can be DARK to him. But realizing that he IS doing better with Ladybugs is a good thing. It means that the H you once knew is returning.
Let him Sprint, then rest. Sprint, then rest. Eventually, maybe, he will fall into step with you.
LG
Hey Lexxxy, welcome back! Hope you had an enjoyable, long weekend! I did, in fact, notice you were MIA for the weekend.
Well, Ladybug got her gift from MCD, a concert t-shirt and she loves it. She wore it for pj's tonight. She also told Drac about it, but only said it was from "a friend of Mommy's".
Total Drac Darkness today again. Although he did send an email about 45 min after talking to Ladybugs. Apparently he didn't 'realize' we were back on school schedule starting this week until she told him on the phone. I did not email him about it in advance or send him any updates to the schedules since the beginnng of summer.
I looked only at the 'preview' of the email. It's a bit more friendly than 'Drac' but only in tone. I don't see anything 'extra' from H, but I can't read it all. I think it's something that can wait until morning to read (just in case he has put a read receipt on it).
LG
You can be DARK to him. But realizing that he IS doing better with Ladybugs is a good thing. It means that the H you once knew is returning
It is an EXCELLENT thing that he is doing better with her. It's going to take some time before things are restored, but it's better than it has been in a long time for the 2 of them.
I never really thought about their improved relationship in terms of him being more the "H", I was just glad to know he's being Daddy again.
Seems Ladybugs can't sleep, so am going to give her some cuddles.
Nite
hey Bugs, last t/j I promise...update was posted
Hi Bugs,
I never really thought about their improved relationship in terms of him being more the "H", I was just glad to know he's being Daddy again.
I think this is a very good sign...focusing on 'others' should help Drac in the de-fogging dept.
...and so is your 'delaying' reading his email, waiting to do so when you are up to it
Bugs,
and others...
The real danger is not from simply being Mommy to the kids. That needs to be the case.
The real problem is in doing so much to take the lead that you become the Mommy to Drac!
If you suggest something and he goes along, it takes his feeling of choice away and gives him a sense of being controlled. If you hint at it ("well, first day of school. I was thinking of meeting Ladybug there as she gets off the bus in the morning." And then let him make that kind of decision as to whether or not he will join you, it gives him the choice and a sense of being in control of himself. (Moot point right now, but it will happen again in some other way.)
He needs to not only see you as something other than just the mother of his children, but also as something other than his decision maker.
When you first got together you probably didn't plan all your dates and time together, he did much of that. That was what formed the original relationship and is what can bring it back for him.
You be the kid's Mommy but let him be a big boy on his own.
This was the direction I thought Mimi was headed with her comments, but I guess I missed something...
Mark
Mark,
The real problem is in doing so much to take the lead that you become the Mommy to Drac!
Excellent point, thanks so much! Very astute as Drac has said before that he felt I treated him like a child at times during our M. I do not want to do that again.
I will have to say that it's hard sometimes, but being aware of it helps.
His email from last night was asking to confirm about Ladybug now being on the 'school' visitation schedule. Friendly, but factual. He also said DSS has first football practice on Sat. DSS is with me this weekend.
I replied short and sweet that yes, we are now on school visitation schedule. I asked about DSS's football, asking the time and stating that I might need for Drac to take him.
He replied with the time, to which I said that I'd need to have Drac take him and I would pick him up, and asked him to let me know what time practice would be over. I didn't say WHY I needed him to take him to practice. (the truth is Drac's family will all be at my house that day for a pool party - I am pretty sure he is aware of that)
So, I left work early to go to Grandma's to mow grass. Drac called while I was mowing, so I did return the call. He wanted to ask which latchkey location to pick up Ladybug (during the school year they are at one location, during summer a different location). He was fairly chipper. He said he'd already picked her up. He said he just knew whatever location he picked, she would be at the other one. I replied, well that's usually what happens to me.
He was getting a work 'radio' call at the same time we were on the phone. He could easily have said he had to go. Instead, he stayed on with me (old routine from our M days that I know without saying anything to hold on when I hear the radio go off ). He went on to ask me what time he could drop her off in the a.m. (he knows this already from last year). He mentioned about needing to get to the meeting. I confirmed the 'allowed' drop off time and then mentioned 'well, the bus comes at x time'.
He jumped on that and asked where she gets on the bus. He then mentioned somethings about the meeting and work related stuff. I listened, complimented him several times. He went on to tell me about having to drive to Chicago overnight and other things. I oohed and aahhh'd over his management skills - which by the way was not at all fake. I do know what a great job he's done in a very difficult situation (although it's likely not as good due to the HoFactor messing up many aspects of life).
He was very chatty and seemed a bit reluctant to get off the call, but it came to a 'natural' close.
So,,,,,,,,my estimation is that the bit of darkness certainly paid off.
I think I handled the interaction well. Breadcrumbs.
The next 2 days MAY be VERY interesting. I have Goddess wear all picked out and need to head up to get it all packed.
I will try to post updates as I can throughout the meetings IF anything of interest happens. I intend to conduct myself 'as usual' - as the Goddess of Environmental Services! ha! (that sounds a bit better than Trash Queen) Plus, I will have the spotlight for my presentation Friday morning.
I have lots of contacts/friends at this meeting. Most that Drac knows, but many he does not. I will be my usual social, charming self - moving among the groups and having a good time. Drac will not be a focus for me. If he wants to interact with me, he will have to COME to me. I won't be going to him.
Keep those prayers and helpful hints coming - I think I may need them!!
If he wants to interact with me, he will have to COME to me. I won't be going to him.
I recommend going so far as making it DIFFICULT for him to find you...
You were meeting the CONVERSATION NEED today, BTW...
Real quick post before going into my meeting - -
This a.m. when leaving the house, I see Drac's truck down at Ladybugs bus stop, so I drive down. I park on sidestreet from Drac, get out and go see Ladybug. He's in the truck, but gets out and comes over.
I am the Goddess this morning, and am bending down to talk to Ladybug giving Drac a great 'view'. He asked about her lunch account and said he'd given her cash. I said I could write a check if he'd like. He said that would be a good idea. I went to the car and wrote a check (sitting with Goddess legs in good view). I came back, gave the check, hugs & kisses to Ladybugs and a look to Drac, who said, See you in a while. I went to my car and left. He was going back to his truck.
Well, gotta run. It's going to be interesting, me thinks. How about you?
Remember YOU ARE A MOUSE and he is the PUSSYCAT...
I tawt I taw a Puddy tat!
I tawt I taw a Puddy tat!
EXACTLY!!
Does that work. It's always good to see someone doing well.
OOPS! you used that one.
However I think that's a good choice.
And I am glad we have a happy dance one....or does that icon just need to go to the restroom?
Thanks for the laughs guys - it's breaking the tension a bit!
I am playing the mouse,,,,,doing my thing but not with any care/concern his way. It's a small group, so it's not too easy to do, but I am pulling it off without it looking like I am 'avoiding' him in any way.
I had to tell you real quick about the morning
The meeting started off with an exercise. Everyone had to do a timelijne of their life, and include highlights (good & bad) as a ‘get to know you’ and ‘get out of your comfort zone’ exercise.
Now this was a total surprise to me & at first I was very nervous. What do I say? The lowest point of my life was the divorce. How much do I share with Drac right there in the room? I just said a quick prayer and did it.
I went before Drac and I said that the highest point of my life was meeting/marrying Drac (although I did not mention him by name, everyone knew who I was talking about) and I added the highlight of having kids. The lowest point was getting divorced. In my ‘presentation’ I said that getting divorced was the worst thing that ever happened in my life, but “life goes on”.
Drac went right after me. His highlights were having DSS, then meeting me. He described told the story of how we met for the first time, “She was under my desk hooking up my phone when I walked into my office”. Obviously, jokes/comments were made but in a ‘fun’ way (remember, I know most of these folks and have for a long time). He then went on to highlight our getting married and having Ladybug. He then noted leaving our workplace to go to that other company as the LOWEST = he said it was the worst decision he ever made & life really fell apart. He learned many things including that money isn’t everything. He said, “as you know, I also got divorced”. He went on to talk about being invited back to our workplace & how he said he’d ‘do anything’ for the boss. I commented, “including getting under his desk to hook up his phone”. That got lots of laughs.
When he finished, Drac said he was going to go throw up. He was literally sweating during all of this.
It was really nerve racking, but I made it through.
I gotta get back to the meeting, but just had to come out to post this!
I can't imagine having to do that! ESPECIALLY right now!
You did GREAT, girl!
Fox
G-d works in his own time and mysterious ways.
He has plans, we just don't know them.
Nausea, heartburn indegestion
Upset stomach, diarrhea .........
Ok, that's what he looks like he's doing, or either the Macarina.
I think he looks like he has to piddle.
When he finished, Drac said he was going to go throw up. He was literally sweating during all of this.
Probably felt like he was standing in front of judge, jury and executioner, since you guys both know a lot of those people.
He sounds less and less foggy to me, recognizing that one of the highlights in his life was meeting you.
I wish he had been the one to speak first. We would have learned a lot more. It was a lot easier to say what he said going after Bugs.
Yeah, I agree. I was thinking that too.
True.. but for him to say that at all.. and in front of all those people..
Of course.. what he DIDN'T say.. which would have clenched the whole deal for me was.
The biggest mistake I ever made in my life was thinking that anyone could take Bugsy's place in my life..
THAT admission in the presence of friends would be proof positive..
Still.. it's a bit much to put on the expectations list... for a WH still in withdrawl at least.
Baby steps and breadcrumbs Bugsy
I am sitting in the meeting right now. Friends have commented and I have even noticed him looking at/ watching me.
I am trying to be the cool calm Goddess. Lord, give me strength.
By the end of tomorrow I am going to collapse from exhaustion!
I can almost feel the under current.
Oh bugsy!!!
Wow. That was brave of you! And I think you made it "safe" for him to share those same things. You are truly the MB Goddess!
Keep us updated!
Drac went right after me.
OH MY GOODNESS!!
His highlights were having DSS, then meeting me.
WONDERFUL!! He didn't HAVE to say this...and he had that specific, DETAIlED MEMORY
...WOW!!
When he finished, Drac said he was going to go throw up. He was literally sweating during all of this.
ALSO A GREAT SIGN!! I HOPE HE THREW UP AND MORE!!
You are MOST DEFINITELY being WATCHED..
Play it up, girlfriend..
You know what to do...
LOOK BUT DON'T TOUCH...
...POOR GUY...
Bugs,
Please give us more updates. I'm going to be sick too due to the suspense of it all.
Please hurry!!!!
Oh, and this guy -
- he's just constipated. They taught this move in a yoga class that I attended once. About 20 of these and you're good to go.
Maybe you should ask Believer if you can borrow her shoes.
Oh my, I don't know if I could walk in Believer's shoes.
You guys don't know, Bugsy...
She's most definitely wearing HEELS...
AND..she's got SHORT SKIRTS which are COORDINATED with the color of her SHOES...
OK...she's got "OUTFITS"..that she picked out DAYS AGO...or even WEEKS ago...
Hey all!
Well, I survived the evening. And yes, I was wearing heels. Yesterday was nice short(not too short) skirt outfit, last night jeans/w fitting top & heels. today dress/heels
Short version, as I have lots of work to do. Dinner - - I did my thing & saw him watching. I spoke to the woman that was just hired here that used to work with Drac & the Ho at the other company. He stopped as he was walking by us - - I just pushed him on his way with a smile. I am sure he really wanted to know what we were talking about (I saw him leaning over her talking later & have a feeling he was hearing what I had to say - Although he was trying hard to make it look like they were pretty intimate
).
I simply told the woman that what went on at the other work place was WRONG - - that I know she knew all about it and that I know that everyone knew about it. Her comment was that she 'tried to stay out of it". I gave her the look that said "BULLSHITE" and told her pretty mcuh the same thing. I said, that people make mistakes and can be given second chances if they PROVE themselves. I offered my 'professional' assistance to her and told her that she would have to 'earn' it as well. Short story - I took the high road.
Drac sat behind me at the comedy club. I did see him kind of 'hanging' a bit on one of the new sales reps. It looked a bit to me like he was 'trying hard' to look like he was having fun. We didn't really interact, and I was glad I didn't have to watch him. When it was time to leave the comedy club, the group split up and went different places. I don't know where he went or who he went with. I did not see him or hear from him the rest of the night.
I was in my room by 11. Alone. I had fun, but wasn't going to over do it with a presentation to do today in front of my boss!
Speaking of which, I have to go get ready!
Will ck back later.
Bugsy.. you are AWESOME..
Drac is really trying to get you to act jealous.. he's trying to push your buttons now that you're opening up to him.
Honestly.. and I'm no expert here... follow Mimi's lead on it.. but my inclination?
Totally ignore him.. go dark as you can again.
HE hasn't defogged enough to know that this sort of behavior is the stuff that HURT you.
He said the words on the phone.. but he's not walking the talk.
He's going to have to take another.. appropriate tactic if he hopes to get a rise out of Bugsy..
Someone needs to kick him inna nuts.
:twobyfour:
I stand in AWE with your ability to handle this situation!!
Bugsy:
I was REALLY expecting Drac to show at the door to "talk"
And then you two would have had a "face to Face" like your phone conversation last week.
Yes, Drac admitted to certain things in front of the crowd.
We all want the Hollywood ending, where the bad guy admits all. Or like in "Mr. Smith goes to Washington", the bad guy commits suicide. But this ain't Hollywood. We do NOT have two hours to resolve things. They just keep going and going.
Stupid "team building" exercises.
Still in Drac's court. Let him serve.
LG
Bugsy.. you are AWESOME..
Drac is really trying to get you to act jealous.. he's trying to push your buttons now that you're opening up to him.
Honestly.. and I'm no expert here... follow Mimi's lead on it.. but my inclination?
Totally ignore him.. go dark as you can again.
HE hasn't defogged enough to know that this sort of behavior is the stuff that HURT you.
He said the words on the phone.. but he's not walking the talk.
He's going to have to take another.. appropriate tactic if he hopes to get a rise out of Bugsy..
Someone needs to kick him inna nuts.
:twobyfour:
I completely agree with James.
And LG.
The words he spoke were good, but the actions didn't follow them up. They have to learn that the actions have to be taken.
IMHO, darkness when you can and 180 when you have to be around him. Unless he comes to you and shows you actions, you are still moving on - not waiting in the wings for him to figure out if he wants you or not.
This is your decision, too.
Fox
I was REALLY expecting Drac to show at the door to "talk"
Most if not all of us were HOPING for this...
BUT I think it will take much more TIME for him to ask for the TALK...
This is kinda a SHAMING EXPERIENCE for him...
I would think he's trying to hold it together just to make it through the weekend...
Who REALLY knows but this takes TIME...
And DRAC has made it CLEAR that he wants to do this PRIVATELY...
I RESPECT(??) him for that...
BUGSY..keep playing the MOUSE..
Quote:I was REALLY expecting Drac to show at the door to "talk"
Most if not all of us were HOPING for this...
I have to say that I was Really hoping for that too!! I think had I gone with the same 'group' that he went with after the comedy club, it may have been more likely. But, I don't think it was 'right' timing. Drinks and a hotel room,,,,,,,we're not there yet. The 'talk' needs to happen first.
It is going to take more time. I think he's still out there trying to 'decide' if he thinks I am OPEN to him and if there is a real CHANGE in me that things would be different and BETTER this go around. He's insecure and unsure right now.
I am still playing the mouse,,,,,but I think he needs a few more positive views of my swishy mouse tail to keep his attention and entice him to pursue. These 2 days may or may not be enough.
Time will tell. I hope you are right, Mimi, in that he's taking this seriously and wanting to do something 'privately'.
I got on the elevator to go down to the meeting and guess who was on it? Yep. Drac. And the former co-worker girl from the other company. Seems she had way too much to drink last night and ended up staying over. From the conversation, I am sure she did not stay in his room (which was quite a relief). I said nothing more than good morning to them both.
I heard him talk about getting back to his room & sitting down at the desk, so I am thinking he was alone - - not positive, but fairly sure. He wouldn't have said anything about it if that were not the case.
He did make a point to ask me if I talked to Ladybug last night - - just a way to engage in some conversation I think. I answered, but didn't take the conversation beyond that.
So, I have a quick report to file and need to get back to the meeting.
Thanks for the support everyone. I am EXHAUSTED!!!!
BTW- - I am sitting where my view to the presentations/presenters has Drac in my direct view. It's good and bad to be seeing him this much. I wish the view was reversed! He got to see in me in my presentation that went well = = but he did do some computer work while I was talking, too.
Gotta run,,,,,,,
ANYONE reading here - PLEASE go to MogiSola's thread, she is formally Hicktownmommy - URGENT!!
She needs all of our help - I am not enough!
Fox
Bugs, Mimi took my words. I stand in awe. You are doing great, and I am really proud of you. Good things are happening, but, like most things, they may take longer than we want them to. Keep it slow.
And remember to breathe.
Not to put any pressure on you, Bugs...
...but some of us are 'glued' to your thread..
SD says,
...I stand in awe. You are doing great, and I am really proud of you. Good things are happening, but, like most things, they may take longer than we want them to. Keep it slow.
And remember to breathe.
ditto for me!
Hey all! Sorry, Fox, I wasn't available to help out today, but looks like she has gotten the attention & support she needed.
As for me, I am exhausted. I figured out I had only eaten a sandwich and a few chicken wings in the last 2 days. DUH! No wonder I can barely stand up!
Well, the meeting wrapped up. Drac waited for an opportunity to come up to me to talk about when I'd be picking up DSS today (he needed to have him come home from a friend's house for me to pick him up today), and he talked about DSS's football practice (where he would pick him up tomorrow). He stood Close AND looked me right in the eyes (he has beautiful blue eyes by the way). He hasn't looked in my eyes in a long, long time. I wonder if it effected him the way it effected ME?
Anyway, I was light & breezy. Answered his questions, he told me to give his girl a kiss, and I went on my way.
Later, I was on the way to pick up DSS and called the house to make sure he was there. He wasn't yet, so I called Drac (I didn't have the friend's home # and DSS didn't have his phone). Drac sounded horrible when he answered the phone, so I asked if he was ok. He hesitated, but said yes, he was ok. I could tell he wasn't so I pressed a bit, asking "what's wrong". He replied 'just work'.
I heard during the meetings a bit more about the challenges he is facing, so I am sure he was having a hard day. He talked about it briefly, but didn't go into a lot of detail. I moved on to ask about DSS and if he'd called him yet to go home. He asked if I was on my way to get him, I said yes, I was just too emotionally exhausted to get any work done. He replied, "I am sure you are." He said it kindly and with that tone of understanding because he feels the same (though he didn't actually SAY that). I know he was busy w/work, but he didn't rush to get off the phone. The conversation ended,,,,but it was obvious that he wasn't really ready to end it but he just couldn't think of anything to say to extend it further.
I picked up DSS and asked him about bringing clothes for football practice (shorts/tshirt are to be bought from school for this) and cleats. He said he didn't know if Drac had gotten the stuff yet,,,,,so a quick call to Drac to ask. No, he hasn't gotten the stuff yet. I WANTED very much to say that I could take care of it, but I didn't. I really really debated about it, but I think it's a good thing for him to have to take care of doing it himself. (Not Mommy). For now. Later he may earn some of that kind of support,,,,,,,,,,
So, got the kids, DSS mowed the yard, I did some weeding. We went to the bank, got some carryout, and I am really physically and emotionally tapped out. I have been ready to crawl into bed for the last 3 hours. I think I will as soon as the kids talk to him for the night.
I hope to be in better shape in the morning. I'm even too exhausted to THINK about what transpired the last 2 days!
As Scarlet would say, "I'll think about that tomorrow".
Nite all (and thanks!)
Morning! Hope everyone is having a great weekend.
Let's see,,what's up with me? Nothing special. Yesterday I was up early getting ready to have the Drac family over. Kids were a big help and we were ready & waiting when they arrived.
A great time was had by all. Talking, swimming, eating,, a mini 2nd b-day party for a cousin. Drac called about getting DSS early, as he had to take him to go get cleats before football practice. He got here, DSS came out back to say he was leaving. Ladybug went out to say hi to Drac, as did Drac's uncle. I went out last minute to ask what time to pick him up. I was in swimsuit with see-through coverup on. Drac had backed into the driveway, so when I walked out, I could just see Drac in the side mirror. I asked what time to pickup & he replied he didn't know, he'd have to call me and then he whipped out of the driveway really fast.
I figured he was 'mad' because HIS family was over. He has a thing that he thinks they shouldn't be involved with me as I am no longer family. They disagree - they consider that I will always be family. Whatever.
Practice was to start at 5:30. Drac finally called just before 7 to say pick up at 8. He sounded friendly, and not upset as he has in the past when I had contact with his family. Apparently there were a lot of kids and it was a bit of a cluster to get things organized. He then said he had DSS's gym bag and that he'd take it to hid house for me to pick up after I picked up DSS. I found that a bit confusing, and asked, "Aren't you staying to watch?". He replied, "No, there's really no where to sit and they keep changing fields. I'm taking off from here". (lettting me know he was going out
). I said fine, bye.
He called back a few minutes later saying he'd found DSS, told him where the gym bag was so that I wouldn't have to go by the house for it. He explained a little bit more about the setup of practice.
So, family left at the same time I did to go get DSS from practice. Practice ran over quite a bit so we got home really late. Both kids are still asleep - it was a pretty big day for them both. They each called Drac while in the carr last night. He was obviously out somewhere, but hard to say where. Ladybugs heard a baby scream in the background when she was on the phone with him.
I started to obcess about where he was/who he was with a bit. Then, I reigned those thoughts back in. I just am SO ready to have that one on one, face to face talk with him. Going along this way feels too much like being designated to 'just friends' and I don't like that at all. Yet, I know part of the process (especially for Drac) is becoming friends again. I just don't want it to STOP there. I can't/won't have a 'friends' realtionship with him - it would hurt too much.
So, church this morning. I am outta town tomorrow and tomorrow night for work. Back on Tuesday. Tuesday night is "meet the teacher" night at school, where parents come in and they ask that you leave the kids at home. I am 'thinking' that this would perhaps be an opportunity for that face to face with Drac??
I do not want to be the one to ASK for that face to face. I think it has to come from him. So, as I am not positive he knows about it, I think I will email(?) him something like this -
"I am not sure if Ladybug's papers Wednesday night included information about the Meet the Teacher Night. It's Tuesday at 6:30 pm. Teachers are available from 6-7, but they have a formal teacher meeting starting at 6:30.
As it say specifically, no children - just parents, I have made arrangements for Ladybugs for the evening. See you there?"
Thoughts? Suggestions?? I want to let him know that I WANT to see him there,,,,,,,,,,,,let him know that Ladybugs won't be there and then leave it in his hands. It's a nice opening (I think)??
Hi Bugs,
I can't/won't have a 'friends' realtionship with him - it would hurt too much.
...I agree, Bugs....I think this is where a BS gets the strength to stay DARK... because the alternative would hurt even more!
I am 'thinking' that this would perhaps be an opportunity for that face to face with Drac?? ....I do not want to be the one to ASK for that face to face... I think it has to come from him...
Thoughts? Suggestions?? I want to let him know that I WANT to see him there,,,,,,,,,,,,let him know that Ladybugs won't be there and then leave it in his hands. It's a nice opening (I think)??
Bugs...you know Drac best...do you think he is wanting to or is ready to have a face to face yet? ...because if not, it seems to me that it's creating some 'expectations' for both Drac and yourself... no matter how well you 'cloth' your message, it could still be received as Bugs taking the lead and Drac not meeting expectations, and a potential disappointment for both of you...
... I have been know to oveanalyze...but since you asked! :RollieEyes: ...so, those more experienced with the art of M recovery may just have something totally different to say about it...can't wait to see
Hey Luna,
Thanks for your thoughts - - I have reviewed what I wrote, and see that it could be taken as setting expecation.
I can't speak for Drac to say one way or another if he is ready for the face to face. I believe *I* am ready. I feel like that most of the work I've done this last year as been in preparation for that face to face. I feel like the way I handled last week's phone conversation is a very good indication of my being ready/able to handle such a conversation.
Drac does need to take the lead, though, to instigate it. So, some modifications of that email are in order.
Perhaps more like this -
"I'm not sure if the note was in Ladybugs bag on Wednesday when you had her - Parents only (no kids) Meet the Teacher night is Tuesday, with 2nd Grad teacher meeting at 6:30"
Drac is a smart enough guy to figure out the rest on his own (as in 1. Bugs will be there 2. Ladybugs will not be there 3. Good opportunity for that face to face )
I need to remember some of the lengths he went to when he first pursued me. He is more than capable of figuring out 'opportunities'. For goodness sakes, look what lengths he went to for the HO?!? Sorry, I couldn't help but have that thought,,,,,,,,,,,,
He knows that I am open to this talk - I've TOLD him. Not much more for me to do in that department,,,,is there??
Any comments from the gallery before I send the email?
IMO, do not send him an email about the PARENTS' NIGHT. That's HIS RESPONSIBILITY to know about that. Remember how we said not to MOMMY Drac...I think that is a LOVEBUSTER..even if INDIRECTLY.. with you assuming that he can't know these things on his own...
I need to remember some of the lengths he went to when he first pursued me. He is more than capable of figuring out 'opportunities'. For goodness sakes, look what lengths he went to for the HO?!? Sorry, I couldn't help but have that thought,,,,,,,,,,,,
He knows that I am open to this talk - I've TOLD him. Not much more for me to do in that department,,,,is there??
EXACTLY....
He needs to do ALL OF THE WORK on setting up a meeting....
Mimi,
With younger kids, it is not a given that there would be a way for Drac to know about Teacher's night as notification comes by way of papers sent home with Ladybugs from school.
If that paper does not come home with her on the one night per week that Drac has her, then he would not be aware of parent's night.
It is sometimes hard to determine between communicating appropriate information and giving him the 'mommy' treatment. Yes, his choices put him 'out of the loop' on being here with the family and seeing the notes from school every night - but there is a required amount of communication that is required/necessary on my part when it comes to Ladybug.
An alternate would be to let her give him the paper when she sees him at DSS drop off tonight.
most schools have a web site now - with a calendar
check it out
if your school has one - send Drac the link and be done with it
Pep
Bugs:
Simply: YOUR trying to force the "one on one"
Drac had two evenings to make a "one on one" happen and did NOTHING.
Send him the info about the "meet the teacher" if you want. HE destroyed that happy family and that reason for you to forward everything. He just misses out. Sorry.
But hoping he puts 1, 2, 3, together ain't gonna happen.
When Drac decides to go 1. 2. 3., you will know. Not until then.
He laid the ground work for that meeting.
The phone call. The jokes. The emails.
Even the event producer set him up.
But he didn't make any efforts.
The ball is in HIS court. Let him play it or not.
LG
I AGREE WITH LG!!!
An alternate would be to let her give him the paper when she sees him at DSS drop off tonight.
This will work...also Pep's idea..
I do not want to be the one to ASK for that face to face. I think it has to come from him. So, as I am not positive he knows about it, I think I will email(?) him something like this -
"I am not sure if Ladybug's papers Wednesday night included information about the Meet the Teacher Night. It's Tuesday at 6:30 pm. Teachers are available from 6-7, but they have a formal teacher meeting starting at 6:30.
As it say specifically, no children - just parents, I have made arrangements for Ladybugs for the evening. See you there?"
Thoughts? Suggestions?? I want to let him know that I WANT to see him there,,,,,,,,,,,,let him know that Ladybugs won't be there and then leave it in his hands. It's a nice opening (I think)??
Someone once told me that a woman who does the work to make a relationship ends up in a lonely relationship...
Make him do the work - especially the first steps Bugs - talk is cheap. You know his agenda is friendly co-parenting. And it looks like with a few cheap words you can be bought for that position...
Just saying... He ain't done nothin yet!
An alternate would be to let her give him the paper when she sees him at DSS drop off tonight.
I think this is a good idea. It keeps the personal touches of an email out of the equation. And FWIW...this is about Ladybug and school. I disagree with the others who think he should not be informed about this.
But that's just me.
Charlotte
Let ladybug communicate that information on the next kid exchange.
Be less available, more dark.
You need to readjust your expecations.
You are anxious and ready to move ahead.
He isn't even close to being partner-material.
He's gotten his fix, and he's retreated to decifer the new information he's gotten. He's not sure of his next steps and he has a lot to figure out.
You're grasping at this one comment that was made about meeting one-on-one. You're taking that to mean that something needs to get scheduled. And your expectations are that this is going to happen soon.
To him, it was just one thing said amongst many other things. His head is swirling with everything.
You are on a plan....step 1 - check, step two - check, now step three and then step 4. So you are impatient for the next step and you are trying to manipulate it into happening.
He's sketchy. He doesn't have a plan. He didn't know what the outcome of that big conversation would be, and he's flying by the seat of his pants. He's reassured himself that you are an option -- now he doesn't know what to do about it. He in NOT in a hurry, and he doesn't want to make a WRONG move. So he's a little bit paralyzed on what to do next.
Give him time.
Start thinking in terms of having this "talk" in a month, instead of expecting it to happen any day.
AND I know how it is...
You got your own DRAC FIX at the meetings...
And so you are left LONGING for HIM again...YUCK...
You will need to go through some form of WITHDRAWAL..
I understand..
Just pointing this out to you...
AND I know how it is...
You got your own DRAC FIX at the meetings...
And so you are left LONGING for HIM again...YUCK...
You will need to go through some form of WITHDRAWAL..
I understand..
Just pointing this out to you...
_________________________
Yep - - and this was the conversation I had with myself on the way to drop off DSS!! Definate withdrawl for me.
So, in light of seeing that I pulled in to Drac's place in Plan B mode. The kids & I had the tunes jamming in the car. I turned down to say bye to DSS, and the kids got out.
I could see when I pulled up that Drac was working in the garage. He had both his dad's truck & his suv in the drive, so I was only able to pull in part way, but was shielded very well from view.
Kids got out, I cranked the tunes back up and appeared to be doing some texting while I waited. I did not even look up until Ladybug was getting back in the car. I was looking to the back of the car pulling out & saw that Ladybug was waving to him, but I didn't give a second glance.
I also didn't send any information on the Meet the Teacher night. Pep's suggestion was perfect. I have used the school website often, so I had gone on it before going to Drac's - my plan was to merely note the address on the meet the teacher paper that I have.
When I got to the website, the front page had the information all about it AND it said specifcally that detailed information was sent home the first day of school. Drac had her that night so I knew for sure that he has this information already. No need for me to do anything. So I didn't.
Now with school schedule in play, and the meeting overwith, I have no need/reason to see him at all for some time. He will be picking her up from latch key and taking her to school during the week. He'll only drop off on Sun nights at my house and it's easy for me to stay outta sight. Only possibility I can't avoid is if he does appear at meet the teacher night,,,,,,,,,,but I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.
he has a lot to figure out.
To him, it was just one thing said amongst many other things. His head is swirling with everything
He's sketchy. He doesn't have a plan. He didn't know what the outcome of that big conversation would be, and he's flying by the seat of his pants. He's reassured himself that you are an option -- now he doesn't know what to do about it. He in NOT in a hurry, and he doesn't want to make a WRONG move. So he's a little bit paralyzed on what to do next.
That's a lot for me to try to get my head around,,,but I am trying. I am VERY much thinking that now he's admitted being wrong and wanting "things they were when we first met", what the heck is stopping him from DOING something to make it happen???!!
I know it's TIME & patience and getting back to MY life that is important right now, but gee whiz it's hard not to just want to kick him in the butt!!
Give him time.
Start thinking in terms of having this "talk" in a month, instead of expecting it to happen any day.
How about thinking in terms of the way I thought before last week's conversation? Like when I had little to NO expectations? Hard to do with everything he said ringing in my head, but it's a more peaceful way of life.
Actions, not words. You all, and STEVE warned me specifically about this - - Please keep reminding me!! Don't give him credit that isn't due him!
Gotta get Ladybug ready for bed. Then pack for out of town tomorrow. Then, try to sleep without dreams.
Oh, just a little funny - - In the car there was a song that has the Ho's name in it. I turn it off when it comes on. Ladybugs asked why I don't like the song and I told her. She told me that "Daddy doesn't like that song either, because he doesn't like the ho anymore."
I laughed out loud. I said, well it would have been nice if he'd figured that out a long time ago.
Not so funny part to that story is Ladybugs telling me that she didn't want to hurt my feelings, but she rather liked the Ho, "she was nice". I calmly explained to her that while I am sure that the ho did nice things for her when they were around each other, that doesn't mean that she was/is a good person. Good people do not date married people and they do not break up families. The Ho wasn't a nice person when she broke up our family and that no matter what she did or said after that, it wasn't showing her true self.
I know it may seem harsh to some here(well probably just new people), but it is a very important truth my daughter needs to understand so that SHE will have the knowledge and truth to seek out and have healthy relationships in her future. I wasn't heavy handed about it (I never am), but whenever the subject comes up, I face it head on with the facts. I never want her to think adultery is OK.
Nite all.
One quick thing before I go pack - I went downstairs to get Ladybug in bed and she tells me, "Daddy's on Match.com".
WHAT??
I tried to be very casual "Oh is he? How do you know that?"
She saw him on his computer - I guess when she was over there Wed. night. She went in and he said he was busy, go play. She said he was typing.
I about puked.
So you KNOW that I had to go on there and check. I have never been on a dating site before, so I don't know much about them or how best to search. I put in just enough specific info about him that he should have popped up, but he didn't. Maybe he was just looking around and didn't register (yet).
Oy,,,I feel ill. Darkness is peace. Gotta get dark.
Bugs,
Just a reality check here. The Ho just left, and so far he has called you and is looking on Match. And, he admitted he can't be alone. Be careful please.
My brother is on his 3rd marriage because he can't be alone. When one is over he immediately is looking for something else. Almost frantically. What do they say? When you are a hammer everything looks like a nail? Or something to that effect.
Anyway, you get my drift. SLOW DOWN. You are a wonderful person who doesn't deserve anymore hurt by this wayward....
A BIG
to you Bugs.....
Anyway, you get my drift. SLOW DOWN. You are a wonderful person who doesn't deserve anymore hurt by this wayward....
What she said...
Hi guys!
I'm not only slowed down, I am at a complete stop! :crosseyedcrazy:
Grapevine at work (yet to be confirmed in any way) is that Drac was checking to see if *I* was on match.com? Whatever.
Church is doing a picture directory & I want to have my pic done with the kids. Unfortunately, the only time avail is Wed night when Drac has them both. Had to email him. I kept it to the facts. Surprisingly, I got an immediate reply that said "book it. We'll make it work". Guess I should be thankful for the quick reply vs the hours it used to take to hear back.
Just doing my own thing for the week w/work, etc. Got enough on my plate without wayward silliness taking up so much of my time. I am not even concerned right now about the meet the teacher thing tomorrow. If he is there, he is there or Not. Either way *I* will be there in my standard Goddess style.
Gotta get to work,,,,,,,just checked into the hotel in Chicago and have lots to catch up on already.
CHICAGO...ahhh..LOVE IT THERE...I was at the ART INSTITUTE in that PHOTO...
Atta girl Bugs....
I also love Chicago - especially Michigan Ave and all of my fav stores - Crate & Barrel, Nordstrom, Niemans,.... Whoohoo!
Back to that same ol place... sweet home.. Chicago!!
Have fun Bugsy.. glad to hear you're getting back to your peaceful place. I wouldn't pay too terrible much attention to the scuttlebutt at work, but given the quick response and that he's... well.. bending just about every time you ask him these days.. it encouraging.
Keep your wits about you..
Oh... and have a pie from Giordano's or Gino's East for me..
Man... I gotta make that 4 hour drive again sometime..
Good afternoon!
Well, unfortunately when I come to Chicago for business I almost never have time for 'fun' things. I, too, love ALL of the places everyone has mentioned.
If only management would book some of these meetings on Friday so that I could stay for the weekend! A nice Chi-town weekend sounds FANTASTIC! Last time I did that, I brought up Mom & sisters, stayed downtown by the river, got upgraded to a suite for free and had a total BLAST!! We've talked about it ever since and we are way past due for another weekend just like that.
I am at the airport now,,,,I tried catching an earlier flight, but did not make it so I have a bit of time for this post. My meeting went (I think) VERY well. VP of my dept seemed pleased, which is what really counts! Made me feel Good (back to professional Trashy Goddess - - Queen of the Dump - - Princess of the Compost ).
Talked to Ladybug last night who made a point to talk to me about tonight being meet the teacher night - and she was really wanting to know if she was going with me or going to G'ma's.
Nothing from Drac - I did email him the time for pics tomorrow. It's much earlier than I'd hoped for, but I booked what they had. No reply from him. Whatever. He said he'd make it work, I'm taking him at his word.
I did buy DSS a new shirt to wear for the pic. Options are 1. drop it off at Drac house tonight on my way home from the airport. 2. Take to meet the teacher tonight and give to Drac 3. Just wait and have it ready for him to put on at the church. Plan B choice is just have it ready for him to put on right before the picture, so that's done.
Ok, I guess I'd better use my work computer to do some actual work.
HI Bugs! Just dropping on on you! Was doing a little reading and trying to catch up some...I have been thinking about all of you for about a week now...
I finally sat down and got here! WhooHOO!!!
Good to see that you are still going strong...Miss you so much!
SLOW, Bugsy. Must . . . go . . . slow.
You've already waited forever. You can wait a little longer. We Bees (even former ones. . . Hi, Rin!) are nothing if not patient.
Hey Rin!
What's happening sweetie! You are overdue for an update!!!
Hi SD! See you are up to your overnight posting again! Hope you are ok.
I arrived home (finally) yesterday. Picked up Ladybug which is always my Favorite part of any trip!! She went to Grandma's so I could go to meet the teacher night.
Drac was a no show. I'd already set myself up for the acceptance of that, so no disturbance in the 'force' happened for me, other than I am a tad curious as to WHY he didn't come.
Before it was time for Meet the Teacher, he DID respond about the picture appt. He wanted to confirm it is tonight, then he asked about travel arrangements, would I be picking up DSS or what did I have in mind. I simply replied that I would do whatever was necessary. His reply, "It does not matter to me, I have no plans. I can bring DSS to the church if you get Ladybug from Latchkey. I can then take them when you are done. What do you think?"
I replied that would be great.
Simply friendly co-parenting?
I am frankly, amazed. His offer was a surprise, and he is going to the church? It will be interesting to see if he comes in. He'll get to watch is 'family' getting their 'family' picture taken without him. And, he will be in the one place that he needs to be so desperately - church.
I dreamed last night about it - but only that afterwards he asked me to go to dinner with them all. In the dream I declined, saying that I had plans. Which, I in fact DO have plans with friends after. That isn't going to happen, but it is insightful for me to be aware of my 'expectations' and 'hopes', even thought I am working very hard not to have either of those right now.
Ladybug called him after I picked her up from Grandma's. He knows she stayed there for a while. I talked to DSS - it was his first day of school and he said it went well. First day of High School!! He said he didn't get to practice = there is some question/issue about his not having his physical. I asked if he needed a different form. He said, no and that 'it would be taken care of'. I said, Oh, ok. He then said something about turned in to the wrong coach? I know he had the form, because I took him to the dr. myself. He was adamant about "we'll get it taken care of" - which I know were Drac's words. I assured him that I was confident that it would be taken care of and dropped the subject. Had to end the call as cell phone was going dead.
Finished up the evening with Ladybug reading stories before bed.
Now, gotta get Ladybug ready for school. Hope everyone has a great day!
MOrning Bugs! Hi SD!
Patient! HA! I think that I have grown impatient to be honest...and for some reason especially with XWH, I keep hoping and wishing, thing is now that I am removed from the sitch and can see a bit better...I see what he's doing...I think that it's part of the grieving process for him...touch and go...
Hoping and wishing carried me a long time in my M...thinking that things would change for the better and they didn't...thinking that he would mellow in his old age...he's changed all right...and I CAN tell that he cares about me a whole lot BUT it's not enough to say I can deal with what he's done or is doing...frankly I don't like his life...he doesn't say it but I know that he still hangs around with OW...thing is SHE doesn't want a REAL relationship with HIM...but he's still there...settling like I was for SOOO long...
It's almost like he wants to change but doesn't have the tools and know how to get where he wants to go...like so many of us once was...
Doesn't stop me from opening that door in the past and checking him out only to cause more heartache...
Friendly co-parenting, yea, sounds like what we were/are doing when we do talk...I try to keep it to the kids, HE on the other hand tried to talk about other things...I've actually come to love NOT talking to him...but I know that there will be sometimes in the future that I will have too...and I'll remember my training here...
You're doing good BUGS...keep that holding pattern...nothing has changed for real YET...they have their NICE period and then it's back to the same old...it's as if they get lonely and want the familiar...like someone said "the fix!' once that's done they are off following that gold plated road again...it's sad really!
nothing has changed for real YET...they have their NICE period and then it's back to the same old...it's as if they get lonely and want the familiar...like someone said "the fix!' once that's done they are off following that gold plated road again...it's sad really!
So she goes away for a month or so and comes back with the sagelike wisdom... go Rin!!
This bears repeating, and articulates perfectly where my concern lies here for Bugsy.. as well I imagine Mimi in particular and others as well..
Bugsy.. this is exactly why it's breadcrumbs.. not whole pieces of bread.. why it's step by step.. slowly reeling in the line rather than getting overly excited and yanking the line once you've set the hook..
If you give Drac too much at once.. he'll take up the invite.. drain you of your vitae.. and then go back to his 'castle' in transylvania.. wash, rinse, repeat.. and our fear is that Bugs will get hung out to dry..
In the darkness of your continued Plan B there is peace.. your actions are going to tell him what you want to be to him.. if you just flirt, you'll be his tease or his next fling.. if you just coparent you'll just be the mother of his daughter.. if you're just friendly you'll only ever just be a 'friend' with history... but if you want your H... you've got to demand that he is nothing less... go back to your PBL.. do a check to see if the perimeter has been breeched, and if it has.. shore up those boundaries.
Bugs --
You're doing all the right things. So why isn't he pursuing thing quicker?
Because he is still in a world of confusion.
He knows what he once had with you. He knows that he screwed it up. So now that he's pushed everything this far chasing the ho...
He is feeling like getting back with you is still full of HURDLES.
There are a lot of negatives associated with that.
Will he always be the bad guy?
Does this place him on unequal footing with you forever?
How would your family treat him?
There is an embarressment factor in play. It may seem easier to him to keep running away than to face all of your friends and family....
He has not grasped a picture of what life could be like with his family restored.
The good news is that with HONOMO....he's realizing how screwed up that situation was and he's taking steps to correct his relationships. He's being a better dad, and he's treating you better.
Hang in there....
Thanks guys!
James & Rin - good reminders about boundaries. I need to be especially aware of keeping them in place. H can cause those to be changed, but Drac can not. One glimpse of H doesn't mean Drac isn't still in charge.
Lexxxy -
He knows what he once had with you. He knows that he screwed it up. So now that he's pushed everything this far chasing the ho...
He is feeling like getting back with you is still full of HURDLES.
There are a lot of negatives associated with that.
Will he always be the bad guy?
Does this place him on unequal footing with you forever?
How would your family treat him?
There is an embarrassment factor in play. It may seem easier to him to keep running away than to face all of your friends and family....
He has not grasped a picture of what life could be like with his family restored.
I can SO see this. It's a struggle for me to want to do things to help him see that Picture and to BELIEVE it is possible to overcome those hurdles.
I struggle with enforcing boundaries (so as not to be relegated to a flirt, a backup, a mommy, a co-parent) while at the same time doing things in such a way as to encourage him/show him a way to grasp that picture of our family being restored.
How does a person come to believe/understand that yes, there would be hurdles to recovery, but also the GREATEST of rewards VS starting with yet another new person, which just seems so much 'easier'?
What's the 'key' to getting the WS to take on and be willing to overcome that embarassment? Is it possible that the 'team exercise' last week has helped that? I could have dessimated (sp?) him in front of everyone, but I didn't. I stated the truth, but didn't try to HURT him in the process. He faced our peers and got through it.
I believe a good dose of MB is key to helping a WS believe it's possible. That having a PLAN is what it takes. That it doesn't have to be about their entire childhood or simply focused on one person's shortcomings/mistakes.
So,,,,,,,,,,the longing for the face to face has been wanting to have the chance to put that out there. Steve said, he's uneducated, but if he would agree to the 'idea' of there being a possibility, then he could become educated and recovery would be very likely.
I just wanna kick his Dumb A$$ and tell him to get Educated! haha!!
atta girl!
I'm glad you have already recognized his struggle!
That's why you're seeing things like match.com. Its the easy path.
He still considers you an option. But frankly, he's scared to to there.
He still considers you an option. But frankly, he's scared to go there.
So how does he become UN-Scared??
So how does he become UN-Scared??
The sermon that Mark wrote explains how in a way.
G-d will help him become UN-scared. It's not our job to worry about it or DO ANYTHING, but just trust G-d that it will happen.
You are getting absolutely amazing advice as well as you are just awesome in how you are doing. I imagine your insides are all turned around, but you are so keeping to your teachings on here and open to people telling you how to walk through this.
Remember this is a marathon and it's one you have trained very long and very hard for. You are in shape, you have the understanding of what is happening, you are reaping the benefits of your hard work and letting G-d do his miracles, because ultimately he knows the plans he has for us.
His plans are to properous us and not hurt us.
{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}
You need to find those opportunities to deliver the CONSISTANT message.
Forgiveness is possible. You want a true partnership of equals -- this would not be going back to the old relationship. That you've learned how to do this.
Let me ask you something. In a restored marriage -- what is your first priority? your marriage or your children?
G-d will help him become UN-scared. It's not our job to worry about it or DO ANYTHING, but just trust G-d that it will happen.
Queenie.. I think for the first time we're a little divergent here on the God handling it all..
God I believe will help him overcome his fears.. but only if he's looking for God's help in doing it. Praying he turns to God is a good start..
At this point though, Drac is looking at Bugsy for clues.. and that is why Steve told her to leave the breadcrumbs..
I do agree with Bugsy that at some point there needs to be a face to face... warm, but very matter of fact conversation so that Bugs can get an answer to the question 'Do you want to recover'.. and Drac can get a clear picture of what it's going to take on his end.. and just how much Bugsy is willing to go through/put up with...
I would reckon the circular thinking of wanting the BS to be an option.. being afraid of the hurdles of R.. fear that things will just go back to the way they were before... and if that wasn't good enough then.. why would it be now.. is the same kind of stuff that left the BS temporarily paralyzed when we were blindsided by the A... desperately looking at every WS action for some kind of insight or answers..
I think, in a weird sort of way.. that's where Drac is now.
He doesn't trust himself... doesn't trust what he sees from Bugs just yet -because- he doesn't trust himself.. he -knows- somewhere deep within that it's his desire to be with -someone-... Bugs has the advantage here because he knows he can be 'comfortable' with her... but he also knows that he's thrown a lot of garbage on her, and deserves her resentment, anger, and perhaps even hatred...
Ever see a dog bite at it's owner and then immediately realize he just -really- screwed up?
Same kinda thing..
No easy answers on how to make him unafraid Bugs.. other than to make every interaction with him safe... don't lie or deny that he hurt you ever.. that's a truth he MUST understand if he's going to be willing to take the EP's necessary for recovery.. but he needs to feel like that is something Bugs not only is willing to work through... but wants to get past.
I think it boils down to the vaunted 'conversation'... but when/where to have that? That I don't have an answer to... I think it waits until Drac feels safe enough to go out on a limb again and bring up an 'us' conversation... if it's on the phone, why not say... 'Drac.. send DSS over to watch Ladybugs for a bit.. let's you and I get some coffee, hit the trail at the park and talk..'
If it's in person.. and the opportunity presents.. I'm sure you can improvise appropriately..
He may not go back out on that limb for a while.. he's tested it.. and it held the test weight.. he's not yet ready to put a full step out there..
James,
What a terribly insightful post!! Thanks so much for that.
I think you are right about stepping out on that limb,,,,I think there is some desire to do it, but a great deal of fear still exists.
This afternoon, I missed a call from him. He didn't leave a vm and I hadn't called back - - He called back in 10 minutes. He wanted to let me know he was on the way to go get DSS for church picture appt. He wanted to tell me that he was running 30 minutes later than he had planned on. I could just tell from his voice that for whatever reason that this was important to him and he was not happy to have not stuck to his plan.
I simply said, "well, it happens." He then went on. He wanted me to know how DSS didn't want to miss any football practice as he is afraid of 'losing his position', so he went to practice. Drac said he would have called him to remind him he was on his way, but DSS has lost his phone again. (How he would take the call during practice, I am not sure). So, he said he'd go get him, take him home & 'hose him off' and they'd be there.
He asked about my telling DSs that I had a shirt for him to wear. I said, yes i have a nice shirt that I bought for him, it's really kind of cool, I think he'll like it. Drac was concerned with if he needed to bring him by my house to change,,,would he change at church. I told him he could just change at church. I then thanked him for calling to let me know.
I could literally hear him take a deep breath and then he said," I'm really sorry". I could tell he meant it, so I again said, "Hey, this stuff happens. I'll see you when you get there."
Ladybug and I finished getting ready and headed to church. Drac & DSS were just a few minutes late, no big deal. DSS came in and went to change. Drac stayed in his car. We had the shots taken and then found out that since it is digital, our 'proofs' would be ready shortly and we could wait to see them and place our order.
We all walked out to Drac's car. He finished the phone call he was on and got out to hug Ladybug. I told him what was going on and asked if he would like to come in and see/order some pictures. He looked surprised/pleased and said Yeah, I'd like that.
So, we all went back inside. The kids were very excited to show Drac all around church. We are just finishing an extensive remodel that includes some really nice furnishings. He commented on a side dresser/table that he said he'd like to have - I told him I thought the same thing when I saw it and had intended to ask where they got it. (Admiring and agreeing with his taste). The kids started by showing him the sanctuary. Ladybug was telling him about last week's service and I found out that he already knew some of it from what they'd already told him before! (very cool that they tell him about church)
We then walked down and he saw both of their Sunday school rooms. On the way we passed some couches I really like, too. Ladybug said it was like Drac's - he said that his is "all leather and very uncomfortable" (this is part of the HoHouse furniture that they bought when they moved in together). LB mentioned that they were getting a 'new' couch. He looked at me and asked if I'd heard the story. I said no. He said that he'd found a 'new' couch on a trash route - - it's really nice but has a 'bit of a funky smell' and he's hoping to get the smell out so he can move the other downstairs. I laughed, smiled, and gave him a high five saying "Now THAT's my trash man!". It was a compliment & I think it pleased him. The Ho liked the $$ he made, but not so much the 'trash man' image - she was used to Doctors and Lawyers in her life and despite the beginning of their R, she looked down on the industry or those that get their hands dirty.
So, as we are touring the church he shared a story about Ladybug 'knowing' how cute she is. We had an enjoyable time. Then we went in to see the pics. I made sure to sit down with Drac standing behind me. We went through all of the shots and had to narrow down to 3. I don't know if he realized it would include a 'family' shot of me & the kids. Almost every time we had to make a choice, I looked back and up at him to ask his opinion. He commented on how good they all were.
Then it was time to order, and I asked him how many he wanted. He sat down in the chair next to Ladybug, but the way were were positioned, we touched several times. The first couple he shied away, but then I made a point NOT to shy away, and then he didn't either. He was teasing Ladybug about the 'hole' in her smile,,at which time I made some silly comment about it being a 'beauty space' and laid my hand on his chest.
So, we finished up and headed outside. We joked & laughed about LB's dress on the way out - it came from a friend of mine who runs a local charity. It came in to her thrift store, tags still on it, Pure Silk, never worn, $175. I paid $8. I told him that other than my wedding dress, I doubt I'd spent that on a dress in all of my adult life! She asked if she needed to change before they left, I said no, it's ok. He said, "well, I'm sure she wants it back. Although we COULD see about doing something with it." I said, "pay it forward?" He said heck no! We'll sell it for a profit! haha!
Ladybug needed her homework out of my car so we all walked over. I showed him her self portrait from meet the teacher last night. He talked about it and then stood there still chatting. Shared with me stories about DSS and football. DSS joined the conversation and we all talked about working on learning more & getting better. I made sure to comment about how knowledgeable Drac is, that he can really help DSS, I supported and enforced things Drac said about what DSS needs to do, including several times, "Dad is right about 'x'".
The conversation was dying down, but he kept standing here. Ladybugs gave me hugs and kisses 2 or 3 times before he started to move away saying "well, we'd better get going".
Finally we started to walk from the passenger side of my car around, so I took the opportunity to put my hand on the small of his back as we walked.
I don't know that it could have gone much better. I know it may seem that this was a 'co-parenting' thing, but it 'felt' like a bit more than that. I know, I know,,,,,,actions not feelings!!
So after that I went out for a couple of hours with some friends, but came home early. I'm having pain in my arm/shoulder that isn't getting any better and was really bothering me tonight.
I thought several times of email messages I could send, but I have refrained. I'm not sure what, if anything, to do right now, so I think doing nothing is the best choice.
I'm off for a glass of wine and some tylenol!
nicely done....
He's just got to see how nice it would be to have the family back together after that!
I'm sure his head is swirling today. He'll want more...
GOOD STUFF!! Now it's HIS TURN!!
at which time I made some silly comment about it being a 'beauty space' and laid my hand on his chest.
I'm thinkin' Drac is a little :crosseyedcrazy: today.
Sit back, relax. Next move is on Drac.
Fox
Atta girl Bugs! Dark again now!! Wait for him to provide the next opening.....
I recently spoke to the guy who fixes my car. He told me he and his wife just got back together. Basically said that single life wasn't what he thought. Said he missed his family so much and didn't want to spend the rest of his life alone in some apartment. I bet Drac missed his family today!!!
Thanks everyone!!
Turns out that I was darker today than I realized- well at least for the start of the day. Drac left me a vm this morning right after he took Ladybug to school, but I didn't get the message til late afternoon.
I called him back, got vm let him know I'd just gotten the message. He called right back "sorry I missed your call. I was driving and couldn't get the phone out of my pocket"
He went into this whole setup about how our lives are now "changed and will never be the same again" (I'll be honest, I got a horrible feeling in the pit of of stomach similiar to Dday).
The big news? DSS has a girlfriend. I said, "What's to be upset about? We should be sitting on the patio drinking champagne!" DSS has NEVER had a girlfriend EVER. He refused to even TALK about girls to the point that we wondered for a while about his orientation = he'd make such a scene if anyone ever mentioned girls.
Drac went into detail about DSS telling him about it last night. He also mentioned about how he had talked to DSS about his friend where DSS stays when Drac is out of town sometimes and that DSS thinks his daughter is cute. Drac had a talk with DSS about being respectful. He said he doesn't want DSS to
'end up like me'. He had DSS at a young age.
He also said, "you don't know what's been going on. 'We've' had 2 scares with 'x' (his bf's 15yr old step daughter), involving pregnancy tests. I'm 34 years old, and I don't need to be a grandfather" I commented that I wasn't really surprised about the friend's daughter, but I didn't take it beyond that. She's been a behavior problem w/boys for a few years.
I pretty much just listened. He then said "I'm at x office now and have to go in, but I think you need to know important things, and this is important stuff. I thought you should know. "
I replied, "yes, there's a lot I should know. I think it's important. Thanks for letting me know." Although the tone of my voice wasn't as appreciative as I might have wanted - - in fact, I think my tone was a bit 'let down' sounding.
I was let down, because of the way he ended it I felt like he's trying to corral me into the Mommy only role with us being 'friendly co-parents'. He didn't have to call and tell me this. 3 months ago, he never would have let me know it at ALL. But the way he ended the call, combined with the 'you don't know what's been going on' and the 'we' have had scares with 'x' comment really made me feel very much kept on the outside still.
It just seemed that he's let me in for this glimpse, but is making it clear that he has HIS life totally separate and intends to keep it that way.
Am I over analyzing this?? Should I just be pleased with the reach out from him??
Am I over analyzing this??
Yes.
I think it's POSITIVE. He's "rapping" to you...trying to FIGURE out WHAT to say to APPEAL to you..
HOLD TIGHT..
STAY DARK..
LET HIM MAKE THE MOVES...
I think you blew his mind last night...
Good going, Bugs.
Bummer Bugs. He seems to be running hot and cold. I guess if Mimi says this is good, it must be. I sure don't know what to think. Sounds to me too like he is just wanting the friendly co-parent thing too. Just when I think you have him hooked, he backs off. Well, I guess that's the description of a wayward for you......
Sounds like good stuff to me, Bugsy
You are doing really well.
Let him make the moves toward you.
YES, you are overanalyzing.
I wish I had a little birdie on my shoulder to smack me upside the head every time I started overanalyzing. I'd be comatose from all the hits to the head, but I'd stop all the overanalyzing
Yep, you are overanalyzing. Hello kettle, I am pot.
My thought is that he is coming up with ANYTHING to tell you so that he can talk to you. And it is safe because it is stuff you NEED to know, right?
Just like in the beginning of Plan B.....they will call with the most trivial little thing just to have contact with the BS.
This is no different. He's "feeling" you out. (not UP, yet, but that will happen too eventually, methinks
)
Fox
My thought is that he is coming up with ANYTHING to tell you so that he can talk to you. And it is safe because it is stuff you NEED to know, right?
Just like in the beginning of Plan B.....they will call with the most trivial little thing just to have contact with the BS.
This is no different. He's "feeling" you out. (not UP, yet, but that will happen too eventually, methinks )
EXACTLY!!
In my view, it's "COURTING" again..that's GREAT...
Like when a guy is ATTRACTED to you..not sure of what to talk about or the right thing to say..hoping to come up with something that's not too obvious or ridiculous...
CAT BEHAVIOR...
SLOW, Bugs. Slow down.
I don't know how to interpret his contact/words/actions, although Mimi's description makes a lot of sense.
Remember that you are holding out for what you need to see, and that it will take more time than you want to wait, and that it may not come at all. I think it will, but it may not.
Slow down.
YES, you are overanalyzing.
I wish I had a little birdie on my shoulder to smack me upside the head every time I started overanalyzing. I'd be comatose from all the hits to the head, but I'd stop all the overanalyzing
Well, I am thrilled to have YOU ALL here to whap me upside the head! Thank goodness it's only cyber-whapping! Oh,,now BC's going to HAVE to make a comment about that, now isn't he? Oh well, Whap away, BC! I am sure you've had plenty of practice! :twobyfour: :twobyfour:
In my view, it's "COURTING" again..that's GREAT...
Like when a guy is ATTRACTED to you..not sure of what to talk about or the right thing to say..hoping to come up with something that's not too obvious or ridiculous...
CAT BEHAVIOR...
Cat behavior,,,,,,so, do I dare to hope that he is 'stalking' me?!
I do rather like the sound of the word 'courting', but I don't think we can apply that word just yet. To me, courting means things like extra special acts of kindness & expressions of affection (flowers, cards, romantic dinners, walks, talks).
I am hoping that taking it SLOW will enforce his feeling SAFE enough that we may eventually get there. I'm hoping I am more appealing (despite the hurdles) than the options on match.com! I am trying hard not to think too much about that.
In fact, I'm trying to view this as a 'new' relationship in as many ways as I can. If this were a 'new' guy, I would not know much, if anything, about other dates, etc. So, in that way, I am trying to control my analysis and over productive imagination.
Ladybug and I went out to dinner tonight - I just didn't feel like cooking. We chatted about all kinds of stuff. I mentioned how nice Daddy was last night. She immediately responded, "Maybe he's liking you again.". I laughed out loud. She's such a hoot! I casually responded that it was just nice to have him being nice, and she agreed. I don't want to drag her into any false hopes - - or any hopes at all in terms of Drac & me. I know she'd love nothing better than us all back together again. But the road is long before we reach a place where the kids would need to know anything 'might' be possible.
We are having casual/lazy night tonight. So, we are off to snuggle in bed and read books.
ahem....young lady please refer to my previous posts(has it been a month alreready? since I predicted this?)
He's putting on a show for you. He's trying to demonstrate some positive traits. Sharing DSS is a way for him to show he's changed. Remember 6 months ago when he was keeping DSS to himself?? Now he's trying to be more open with you.
And frankly? You are meeting his need for conversation. Because there is no one in the world he would rather share this with than you. No one else but you cares about DSS and can share those special "proud parent" moments with him.
So don't look at these items as him only trying to put you into mommy-role. Its also the easiest ice-breaker for him.
So my advice is don't get your back up when he comes to you with kid-related items. Just find a way to throw something else at him when he does....flirt, reminisce...
So, Bugs...looks like things could go your way....Stop...and remember things that plucked his heartstrings....you are a computer savvy gal....do a windows movie maker slideshow for him. Put down your entire lives together with appropriate tunes.
Invite him over for dinner, have a fun evening with the kids and play the DVD you just made with Ladybug's and DSS's commentary on the side. They will interject comments that will bring him back home. Cat and mouse is good, but you have 2 kids waiting for normalcy to return...time to take him back in time and make him rewrite the history he just rewrote...You are a "church lady" now, time to make him "love his wife like the Lord Loves His Church. A Christian woman will redeem her spouse. Do a "slide show of your lives together...it will effect him in a positive manner. Just my 2 cents GF
Cat behavior,,,,,,so, do I dare to hope that he is 'stalking' me?!
You know how to tell if a cat is stalking? Watch it's tail - the twitchier the more engaged the cat is, body and mind to catching it's prey.
So...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Is his tail twitching?
ahem....young lady please refer to my previous posts(has it been a month alreready? since I predicted this?)
Yes - duly noted! I LOVE it when you are right - and sure seems like you were!
Ok, so he's putting on this show. I'm happy and trying very hard to be patient. I realize I have been 'preparing' and educating myself for this possibility for so long that I'm just too anxious for it to come to bear 'real' fruit. I recognize this and am really, truly working on the patience.
GF, I like the idea of the movie. I just don't know when would be the right opportunity. Yes, the kids are ready for a 'normal' life, but until Drac gives more of a Green Light, or let's me know he's ready to cross the starting line, I don't want to appear 'heavy' handed.
It's a great project for me to work on and stay busy while being patient!!
Thanks much!
Kayla, so good to have a post from you. Hope life is looking better for you these days.
I think the 'twitching' is there. I hear it a bit in his voice when we speak,,,,,,a bit of nervous mixed with perhaps a ting of excitement??
As has been pointed out, he's using things I 'need' to know as openings for us to interact. Does he have any idea himself that these are 'excuses'? Does he realize how much he WANTS to talk to me? I don't know. I am hoping it's becoming a realization for him.
Lexxxy, thanks too for the reminder to keep an open mind when he's sharing the parenting stuff. I'll try to keep that back down!
I am also trying hard to keep from wondering so much what he's up to. I'd gotten really good at it for a while, but it's crept back into my thoughts way too much lately. Such as this morning when Ladybug told me they are going to his BF's house tomorrow. I'm thinking "Why? So he can leave the kids there overnight and have a date from match.com?" YIKES!! I HATE those thoughts!!!
Work is calling my name,,,,,,,,lots to do. Have a hair cut appt this afternoon (but I'm loving my hair right now) and then will meet a friend after. Tomorrow have plans with another GF. And of course, the requisite house, yard, pool work to do, too.
Will try to catch up with ya'll later!
Morning Bugs, I don't have anything to say really, I think that you and the others have a handle on things here...just wanted to let you know that I'm here in the back ground supporting you...cheering you on...
Hey Rin!! Glad to see you back posting - missed you!
Well, got another call this afternoon from Drac. He was picking up Ladybug from school, then going by DSS's football practice to fill out the form for his pictures which are today. He asked me what pics I would want. I gave him a run down of a 'best guess', but told him depends on the cost & that I trust him to pick for me.
He went on and talked for 15 minutes. Told me in DETAIL what was going on with them tonight. He as work dinner, so his BF is getting the kids, then FIL is picking them up on his way home. Then "I am driving down there and we are ALL spending the night at Dad's".
Yikes - I almost fell off the chair with that 'reassuring' detail!!
We talked about work stuff,,,,,I joked about if he drinks too much tonight and I was going to say "Call a cab". He cut me off and said "I stopped drinking." I asked, since when? He joked back "Midnight last night. But I'm back on the wagon. Probably until 8pm tonight". We had a good laugh.
He then shared some concerns he's having with DSS. Staying organized for FB. He said he's doing ok with homework, but things like the pics and overall organization are a struggle. This has always been the way with DSS. So,,,,,,,,,I said, "you have done such a good job with getting him into a working routine for the mornings, I am sure it's just a matter of time before you incorporate the football thing. It will take some time for you to get all of the info you need to help him do it."
He said, "yes, well, I'm getting the hang of the on line thing. That's how I knew about the pictures today" (remember, I tried getting him to do this over a year ago). I just said, "That's really smart!"
We chatted a minute about Ladybug calling tonight. I told her when I talked to her that I'd be at the ballgame, so if she called & I missed her that I'd call her back. I told Drac I'd just try to call his Dad when "I'm able to talk".
That pretty much wrapped it up,,,at the end of the conversation I just had a happy laugh in my voice & I know he noticed but he didn't ask about it - He just told me to have a good weekend.
I've reallly felt good all day & I know it's because I was able to let thoughts/worries about him go. My mantra today is God has a plan (well, that's one of my mantras every day).
Then, with this phone call, it just made me feel like laughing out loud! For now, though, I'm putting aside the 'hopeful' thoughts of getting a call from him later tonight. Knowing the kids are squared away with FIL,,,,well it is possible.
Time will tell. God has a plan.
Bugs, you've got several people on here giving you great advice on what to do and how to react. I wish I could do the same, but I don't have confidence that I know anything about how this part works.
I think that things are going fairly well, and I certainly hope that they are going well, because I see that you have taken down many of your plan B protections. You're wondering about what he's doing, overanalyzing what he's saying, trying to get into his head, hoping for signs.
I see that you want this and that you are going for it full-bore. I knew you would. I probably would do the same.
I think that there are some people in the audience who would wonder why the hell you would even take Drac's phone calls unless they started with "I've been a complete idiot and I am so sorry." Personally, I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing so long as you realize that you're doing it.
I think it's worth the risk, but proceed with caution. Don't let your feelings and desires carry you away. Maybe ask yourself "What would Steve want me to do/say right now?"
I really want this for you, Bugs.
Bugs,
....I think it's worth the risk, but proceed with caution. Don't let your feelings and desires carry you away. Maybe ask yourself "What would Steve want me to do/say right now?"
ditto for me, Bugs.
Hey SD & Luna~
I think that there are some people in the audience who would wonder why the [censored] you would even take Drac's phone calls unless they started with "I've been a complete idiot and I am so sorry." Personally, I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing so long as you realize that you're doing it.
I'm sure there are many people asking that question - I asked myself that at least once. The answer - because with Drac, it will never play out that way without some effort on my part. He's slowly coming out of the fog. As you have read, he is prideful/unsure/unconfident and as Steve said, Uneducated in the fact that it IS possible to restore our relationship. Without some encouragement and specific actions on my part, he will never believe that recovery is possible,,,,,,,,,and if he doensn't believe in something why/how would it ever happen? It wouldn't.
It still might not. It might, but odds are against it. I know that. Yet look back at my journey. Did I fight for all of that time for nothing? I did I fight to get to the point where there is a slight chance only to walk away and not fully give it a shot? No, I didn't.
Yes, I am divorced. Is it what I wanted, no? Yet it is a fact. Did my ex's A end? Yes it did. Is is possible for us to restore our relationship? I believe it is. If there is something I can do to help him believe that, too, then I am going to do it.
Just 2 months ago I did not believe his A would end. I did not believe he would ever say the words, "I've totally f'd up my life. My R with her was wrong. I was losing my daughter. I have done such horrible things."
He hasn't said the actual words, "I was an idiot. I am sorry", but it's darn close. And you know what? Even the words "I was an idiot. I am sorry" do not say "I want to work on a realtionship with you".
THAT is what is needed. He will need to make that decision, and he'll need to make it fairly soon. I know myself well enough to know that I can't quasi Plan A him for long. We will have to have The Talk. I can not 'be friends' with him like this long term if we are not going to pursue something more. I know I would destroy myself if I didn't keep that boundary.
I think it's worth the risk, but proceed with caution. Don't let your feelings and desires carry you away. Maybe ask yourself "What would Steve want me to do/say right now?"
I do ask myself that and I do try to keep the emotions and desires in check as much as I can. It's a tough balancing act because without the emotions and desires, WHY would I be doing any of this in the first place?? :crosseyedcrazy:
I really want this for you, Bugs.
Thanks!!
I have been really, really lazy today. I just laid around the house and finally cleaned up around here and started some laundry around 11. I actually feel just 'down'. Not especially depressed or sad,,,,,,,just down. I think the 'high' of the recent interactions with him have come to a natural down place today.
I think they were all really good interactions, but as it seems to be netting no specific "forward" movement to The Talk, the day after is a bit of a downer if I let it be one.
I did go out with friends last night and had a great time. I think I'm going to grab a book and hit the pool. I need to clean it first, so I'll get that out of the way and then just 'chill' for the afternoon. I'm thinking a good movie, a bottle of wine, and some chinese tonight. 3 of my guilty pleasures! Heck, I think I'll also throw in a bubble bath for good measure!!
I do plan to think about how I want to proceed. How long do I want to or think I can keep up the current situation? I need to set some better ideas for myself going forward, for my own protection. I'm operating outside the 'plans' and coloring outside the lines here,,,,,,,,,,,and though I do have good direction from Steve on where we want this to go; as well as a good idea on how to get there, it's a matter of time and cost for me.
I won't let this cost me what it did in the past. There is going to have to be a set window of opportunity that Drac's going to have to either pony up and give it a shot or I will simply move back to MY life and little to no interaction with him.
I know that an ultimatium isn't the way to go with him, that's not what I'm talking about. I just mean that we need to get to the Talk so that I know if there's a bit of belief/desire on his part for more than friends/co-parents. Once that is confirmed or denied, I'll know and be better ABLE to pick the next steps.
Does that make any kind of sense?
My brain hurts. Think I'll clean the pool and rest for a bit.
I'll ck back later & hope to get caught up on everyone else's threads.
I would continue living a wonderful life without him, but leave the door open for the possiblity to have a relationship with him. Know that you will be just fine if he doesn't make a big effort.
It took my ex 7 months to start feeling sorry - that was last September. He STILL comes around and contacts me. He came by this morning. NOW, almost 2 years after the divorce, he seems to be getting it. Too late for us.
But take your time, don't get your hopes up, and see what ACTIONS he takes.
Bugs,
This has to be stressful for sure. Hard to know what to do. I think you are in good hands with Steve. He seems to be the most skilled at getting waywards home. I am praying that this all works out for you.
Sorry for the T/J but I have to catch Believer where I can. Believer, thought you wrote a letter to your XH. Why does he keep stopping by? Fill us in... Would you please start a thread - Believer's BS Life After D thread? Just to let us know what you are doing and how you did it. Your advice is great but sometimes I have to hunt you down!!
Absolutely I am proceeding with my own life,,,,,,,,,and on that note -
change of plans - am going out tonight. A friend of mine needs a wing-man
Should be a good time - seeing a good band that I really love.
There's an email in my In box from Drac. I have previwed the contents, but not opened it yet. He's attached DSS's football schedule, noting that it's going to make the weekends busy.
It goes on to say ask if I am interested in 'keeping our normal schedule for next weekend.' Something about him not having any plans and money being tight. (hmmm wasn't it just a few weeks ago he had $$ to fly out of town for a concert?)
So,,,,,,,,,,the truth is I don't really have any set plans either. I am probably doing dinner with friends and then was going to the lake with my sister & the usual crew.
I am not sure what I will respond (and it may depend on what the rest of the email says). I think I will respond that he needs to have the kids per the planned holiday schedule, as I do have plans.
The one monkey wrench in this is that DSS's first football game is Sat. night and I really don't want to miss that. I may have to come back from the lake in time to go to the game. It's close enough that I can do that and even go back again on Sunday. I think that's a good plan.
I'm open for thoughts/ideas,,,,,,,,,,,,
I gotta finish getting ready to go out. Frankly, it's been YEARS since I've gone out at 10pm VS now I usually get home at 10 pm!! I don't know how long I'll be able to stay awake!! ha!
Oh,btw, I did mention to Ladybug when I just spoke w/her on the phone that I'm getting ready to go out. I think it's good for Drac to know I'm not just sitting here. They were outside working in the yard, and she told me they are planting flowers tomorrow??!! Now that's a first!
Well a good time was had by all last night. My friend has found someone that I think is a perfect fit for her! I am so happy for her! In fact, his BF was there & of course, I ended up spending most of the night talking with him. He told he he'd warned his friend already,,,,,she's perfect for you!
I hope it all works out for her. It's nice to see a new relationship in those beginning stages. It gives me hope. I am definately getting her HN/HN and FIL/SIL for Christmas!!
I didn't get home until 3:30 am! Lordy it's been a long time since I've been out that late! I was up and ready for church this morning despite the late night. I am surprised I'm not more exhausted than I feel right now. I am sure it will hit me later - - - especially after all of the yard work I have to do today. I'm just waiting for some laundry to finish in the dryer.
Well, I opened Drac's email and read the entire message. His 'nice' offer to let me have the kids for the holiday weekend seems to be more of a convenience for him. Turns out he as a wedding to go to next Sat. and he's "sure the kids would not be too excitged to go to that."
I'm supposed to let him know if I want them for a 'family lake trip'. Oh, and he needs to know what money he owes me for all of the 'extras' lately. I gave him an update a week or so ago.
I have news for him - it's his holiday weekend and I have other plans. He needs to take the kids with him to the wedding. There's no reason not to.
Oy,,,I wish I could shake the feeling of 'needing' to do something. I really just want to ask him WHY did you call me that night and tell me all that stuff? WHAT is it that you want???
Instead, I'm going outside to exhaust myself with work, then it's a jump in the pool and perhaps a nice nap!!
Hi Bugs,
Well you certainly have the patience of I don't know who, but it's strong. Last night in my meeting, one of the guys was talking about never asking for patience because he can be assured G-d will put think in his life that teaches him patience.
OY is right. These waywards are absolutely mind boggling how they operate. Too much drama for me I am finding. I like the peace of not having WH in my head or his activities known to me.
I'm so pulling for you and love reading what's happening.
The pool? Yes, President Goddess, you deserve the relaxation.
Hi Bugs,
Glad to hear you enjoyed your night out...
Well, I opened Drac's email and read the entire message. His 'nice' offer to let me have the kids for the holiday weekend seems to be more of a convenience for him. Turns out he as a wedding to go to next Sat. and he's "sure the kids would not be too excitged to go to that."
I think it's a good 'read', Bugs....
...I have news for him - it's his holiday weekend and I have other plans. He needs to take the kids with him to the wedding. There's no reason not to.
Oh yes there is! Bugs...just a thought....if you don't take the kids...don't EXPECT him to take them with him necessarily....he may only have to find another 'solution' on who could take care of the kids (..giving you FIRST option, since you are the EASIEST!)...because if he really doesn't want to take them....he WON'T! ...but that still should not be your problem.... he needs to find other 'solutions' and learn to make other arrangements (and learn NOT to count on Bugs all the time)...you just need to be OK with this possibility..
...I am speaking from experience, Bugs!
Oy,,,I wish I could shake the feeling of 'needing' to do something. I really just want to ask him WHY did you call me that night and tell me all that stuff? WHAT is it that you want??? Instead, I'm going outside to exhaust myself with work, then it's a jump in the pool and perhaps a nice nap!!
Good!... and if not...get right back here...and talk to US...if you absolutely FEEL you need to do SOMETHING!
....and of course.... don't forget the password around here...
BREATHE :RollieEyes:
I have news for him - it's his holiday weekend and I have other plans. He needs to take the kids with him to the wedding. There's no reason not to.
I suggest continue to take MOVES BACKWARDS..leaving him plenty of ROOM to MOVE FORWARD..so a brief response: "Sorry, I already have plans for the weekend"...He will make suitable arrangements for the kids. He's gonna keep you PARENTNG for the weekend...while he plays..there's no guarantee that he will go to a wedding once he's FREE... :RollieEyes:
I'm supposed to let him know if I want them for a 'family lake trip'.
Is this any of "HIS BUSINESS"? I know I'm not knowledgeable about DIVORCE RULES but this seems to be an INTRUSION into YOUR LIFE...The BOUNDARIES seem to be SLIPPING..where he is keeping close tabs on YOUR SCHEDULE and he is giving the semblance that YOU know HIS..that gives me the CREEPS...ICK..
I wish I could shake the feeling of 'needing' to do something. I really just want to ask him WHY did you call me that night and tell me all that stuff? WHAT is it that you want???
HE NEEDS TO DO THE WORK!! NOTHING IS KEEPING HIM FROM DOING WHAT HE NEEDS TO SAY AND TO DO!! Well, nothing but HE IS NOT CHOOSING TO DO WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO!!
Instead, I'm going outside to exhaust myself with work, then it's a jump in the pool and perhaps a nice nap!!
EXACTLY..KEEP THE FOCUS ON YOURSELF!! YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF!!
!)...because if he really doesn't want to take them....he WON'T! ...but that still should not be your problem.... he needs to find other 'solutions' and learn to make other arrangements (and learn NOT to count on Bugs all the time)...you just need to be OK with this possibility..
Oh I absolutely expect him to find other arrangements and not to take them to the wedding. He is perfectly capable of doing that and I have no doubt that he will. He offered to me first because 1. it was easiest and 2. it makes him appear to be Mr Friendly CoParent
Whatever
The way his email read it was "I don't know what plans you have for the weekend, but if you would like to have the kids for a family lake trip, that would be fine with me"
Seems like 1. an assumption that I'm doing something w/my family and 2. a bit of fishing to find out if that is the case. There's nothing in 'divorce' rules about him trying to find out about my plans,,,,,,,,,other than it's just plain & simple none of his business.
Yes, my response will be a simple, "I have plans". Nothing more is necessary.
NOTHING IS KEEPING HIM FROM DOING WHAT HE NEEDS TO SAY AND TO DO!! Well, nothing but HE IS NOT CHOOSING TO DO WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO!!
I disagree with this in a couple of ways. I think FEAR is stopping him for now. Fear of rejection, Fear of it being the same old/same old, Fear of further facing his actions, Fear of all of the hurdles we would need to overcome. And, he is Uneducated in the fact that this CAN be done & there is a way with people who can help us. He doesn't yet believe it's possible. All of that is standing in his way.
Now, it's his choice to reach out and remove those obstacles or find a way around them. I hope he chooses to do that. So, in that we are certainly in agreement that the next move is his. I hope that he figures that out and makes it.
Now, most of my chores are completed. It's pool time for an hour or so!
How can YOU assume that he is "FEARFUL" unless he has told you?
IF you WANT something BAD enough, if HE wants YOU bad enough, HE will make some KIND of MOVE.
I would think THAT is the MAN/HUSBAND that YOU want...someone that LONGS for YOU..someone who at least makes THE EFFORT..SOME EFFORT to ASK YOU what HE needs to do...
My H was/is PROUDFUL, too...
But I CAN say that he came to LONG for ME and WANT ME...
How can YOU assume that he is "FEARFUL" unless he has told you?
I base this first on discussion I've had with Steve Harley. He spoke w/Drac last year and we discussed in detail during my last session Drac's session with him, as well as Drac's history and personality type. Steve was specific that it would take some coaxing and work on my part to get Drac to engage.
And, I am basing it on comments Drac made in our phone conversation. He KNOWS he deserves my wrath, my anger, my distrust. He acknowledged that. He's never 'recovered' any relationship in his life. He doesn't know how to do it and I think he's afraid to even ask me what would be necessary. As Lexxxy said the other day, I think he's not yet even wrapped his mind around the fact that I would be open to reconciliation with him.
His personality type isn't one to 'assume' that I am an option. He's actually not as 'confident' as he would like the world to believe and boy oh boy the things he said the other night definately prove that. Right now, he's just now realizing how HORRIBLE he's been and just starting to see the amount of damage. It sounds like right now, it is overwhelming him with guilt and shame.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not necessary for him to take action. Yes, of course I want a man who longs for me and is willing to come to me and ask what it will take. He's not there yet,,,,,,,,,he may never get there.
Steve was specific that it would take some coaxing and work on my part to get Drac to engage.
But isn't this AFTER he takes some FIRST STEPS? Did Steve use the word COAXING? Seems like he already has "ENGAGED"..that's not the PROBLEM, is it?
I think he's not yet even wrapped his mind around the fact that I would be open to reconciliation with him.
You sent him the PLAN B LETTER. You were SINCERE about the letter weren't you? I know you were but you seem to have forgotten about that whole concept.
I think you are feeling the need to do TOO MUCH of the work.
I still think he can do more.
You are portraying him as being so INCOMPETENT.
To me, that is almost DISRESPECTFUL of him.
He has THE CAPACITY to do more.
BELIEVE IN HIM.
EXPECT MORE OUT OF HIM.
HE WILL RESPOND TO YOUR ADMIRATION.
Let him KNOW that you are OPEN to HIS INVITATION.
Let him KNOW that you are AWAITING that ONE ON ONE MEETING.
THEN, STEP BACK....
Given his LOW SELF-ESTEEM, he will feel better about himself in a relationship with a woman that lets him MAKE THE FIRST MOVES...to be THE MAN...
Checking in, Bugsy. What's shakin?
The silences reminds me of her Plan A.
Fox
The silences reminds me of her Plan A.
Fox
SL reminds you of Bugs Plan A?
Really?
You wanna expand on that?
Fox: :twobyfour: BC: :crosseyedcrazy:
Fox
That's some pretty fancy emoticonese Foxy
I have a reputation to uphold, ya know.
Fox
ETA: That's an "innocence" icon, not a "flirt", BTW
I think Bugsy is MAD at ME...
Come on, Bugsy..let me have it..I'm at your mercy...
(UNSURE ABOUT THE ICON????)
COME BACK, BUGSY...
COME BACK...
----------------------------------------------------------------
Just trying to DISCOURAGE you from FALLING INTO THE SAME OLD/SAME OLD with DRAC...
THIS TIME..IT'S GOT TO BE DIFFERENT, I think..
But what do I know...
Just SCARED for YOU...
Foxy is an expert in emoticonesiology. Amazing. I totally buy her calling this
an INNOCENCE emoticon.
BC's another story, however
Mimi, I think Bugsy is practicing being the MOUSE.
oooooor, she's up to something and doesn't want us to stop her
Gang:
I don't know what Bugsy is up too. She could be engulfed in work, or Drac made the one-on-one call and it hasn't ended yet.
Or, something worse. Mom's cancer. Dad's issues, maybe something else. Either way, we can wait.
Mimi: She is NOT scared of you.
However.
I wanted to bring this over from the (F)wayward Not2L8's thread.
Schoolbus is amazing. She posted this to Not2L8 and I think Bugs could send it to Drac.
What you are feeling are normal emotional responses. You should feel upset - things in your life are a mess because you messed them up. Medication will not solve the problems you created, and I think it is ridiculous that doctors think that we should not feel the emotional results of normal everyday life.
Rant over.
************
I talk about your feelings regarding the OW being a fantasy for a reason. Consider something called the "mere exposure effect". This is the idea that people who work around each other, or people who spend a great deal of time together, and find one another mutually friendly and reasonably attractive to begin with are much more likely to become more and more sexually attracted to one another with an increase in time spent together. For example, you work with a woman who is friendly and nice-looking. Not necessarily someone you would ordinarily seek out as a date or sexual partner. But because you spend lots of time together on a project, you get closer and closer to each other. She starts looking pretty good to you, and vice-versa. The attraction grows because of the mere exposure to one another.
This mere exposure effect goes a long way toward explaining many office romances and many affairs in the workplace, especially those where the two people are completely mismatched otherwise.
The fantasy - yes. Your OW? Let's talk about her. Next post.
Then:
Not,
Okay, let's talk about the idea of fantasy and the OW.
Let's say you really did love the OW.
Fine.
So, that means you automatically "unlove" your wife?
I don't buy that.
Here's what I think happened.
You betrayed YOURSELF first.
I cannot state exactly WHEN or WHERE you betrayed yourself. But you did. It happens in EVERY DECISION TO HAVE AN AFFAIR. From that point of self-betrayal, from that exact point on, you began to betray your wife.
At some point, you had the thought of working your way closer to the OW. It crossed your mind, and you pushed that thought back as WRONG. You began to do things to keep yourself from thinking about her, and you knew that you were venturing into dangerous territory.
Right?
Had you stopped yourself at this point, and focused on the marriage, you would not have betrayed yourself.
But you made a choice to go ahead and move closer to the OW instead, to explore her as a possible love candidate, despite the fact that you had a wife.
AT THIS POINT, YOU BETRAYED THE DEEP, INNER VOICE INSIDE OF YOU THAT TOLD YOU THAT THIS BEHAVIOR WAS WRONG.
You self-betrayed.
Once you self-betrayed, you started thinking differently. You looked at your wife differently, and the OW differently. The OW became "better". She HAD to. Because the act of self-betrayal had to be
JUSTIFIED.
You had to justify your actions, do you see that?
You had to have some way in your mind, in your conscious, to justify what you were about to do.
You were about to cheat on your wife, to betray her. And you knew that.
The ONLY justification for that would be:
IF YOUR WIFE DESERVED IT, and you could BLAME HER FOR IT.
So mentally, the changes that occur are this: your wife's small faults become larger; your wife's sarcastic tones begin bothering you greatly; you begin to rewrite your marital history so that it works in favor of justifying what you are about to do; and any other perceived problems in the marriage become vastly magnified.
I will say that again, because you have to really live with this.
THE ONLY WAY FOR YOU TO LIVE WITH YOUR ACT OF SELF-BETRAYAL WAS IF YOU COULD BLAME YOUR WIFE FOR IT.
Now, tell me that you had NO conversations wtih your OW regarding how your wife was difficult to talk to, didn't meet your needs, etc.
You did.
Because it justified what you were doing. Blamed HER.
I'm not hitting you with a 2X4. I'm telling you how it works, really happens.
That self-betrayal initiated the blame-game. It allowed you to foist the blame elsewhere and at the same time pushed into place a second event............
The coronation of the OW.
Because this HAD to happen. The OW was the key partner in the game. She HAD to be better than your wife - do you see that?
Because if you were to commit this act of self-betrayal, and go against everything you knew to be right and good
then it had better be for something right and good.
You did it for the OW.
So you absolutely, positively, COULD NEVER ADMIT THAT THE OW WAS ANYTHING OTHER THAN RIGHT OR GOOD.
Could you?
Next post, let's talk about that.........is the OW "right and good"?????
And:
Is the OW "right and good"? Is she that perfect fantasy that you nuked your marriage for?
Nope.
Here's why.
That OW is someone who came into your life and made sure that she attracted you. You saw her as a love candidate, and you were married. She KNEW you were married.
I wonder - would you want a wife who has no regard for marital vows? Your OW has none. She lacked regard for YOURS. She did not care that you were married.
If you ended up with her, married her, she would bring that attitude into that marriage. Something to consider. Not "good".
Your OW, did she consider your children, and the impact her presence in your marriage might have on them? IMHO, any person who intrudes on a marriage that has children involved, has no moral standing. She was willing to put herself and her own selfish desires above YOUR CHILDREN and their needs, Not. ABOVE THEM. You should never choose anyone who would put themselves above your children - that alone tells you a great deal about her character. Neither "right" nor "good".
How often did your OW say negative things about your BW? About how much better a woman she is than your BW? She said those things in order to drive your wife out of your life, to help you push your wife away - make you hate your wife in your mind - drive a wedge into your marriage, in her selfish desire to "have" you, not to "love" you. There is a difference, you know. Not "right", and no, not "good".
And that fantasy...............
OW was always able to get herself ready for you, had time to shower and dress up. Your wife? She woke up in the real world with you, sometimes in work clothes, sometimes from painting the garage, sometimes from digging in the garden...
OW was always able to put on the candles before you got there, and clean the house. Your wife? She was doing great to have your dinner ready between getting the kids to dance class and catching the dog that got out the gate yet again, and oh, since you forgot to pick up milk on your way home she ran and got it, and "somebody" broke the toilet paper holder again so she fixed that...
OW gave you hand-made love cards every time you met for secret sex rendevous. Your wife?
She made love to you that first time you two were together - remember where and when that was? How you felt then? Make your mind go there - it's reality and THAT IS LOVE.
She bought that sexy outfit once that didn't stay on long and ohhhh she looked great - remember that? And you two made love...that's reality and THAT IS LOVE.
She wrote you love notes once and twice and three times, and more, and you read them and remember them, and probably have them stashed somewhere. She has given you gifts over the years for birthdays and Christmases and "just because", and you kept some and laughed at some and don't even know what happened to others. She lost your socks and stayed up with you when you were sick.
She raised your children.
She probably wrecked one of your cars.
Or you wrecked hers!
She shared more than one laugh with you, and a thousand tears.
And she has stood next to you in the best of times, and is standing right there now, in the very worst of them.
Your OW........gone. Because she was a fantasy, and for all the reasons you can see and more............
Your wife is reality.
Your wife is love.
You make a choice every day about love. You accept it or reject it. You give it or take it.
If there is one thing I have figured out about love, is that it is found where you GIVE it.
Odd little fact.
WOW, WOW, WOW.
LG
I didn't say she was SCARED of me..
I said she is MAD at me..
I think SB is GREAT...in her KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF AFFAIRS...
But about BUGSY...
I RELATE to her doing so much WORK in her RELATIONSHIP with DRAC..I think he would RESENT her EDUCATING HIM...
Bugsy knows what I mean..THE MICROMANAGING...
I'm concerned about her stepping back into that ROLE and wanting to do it again..ALL THE WORK..
She says she wants to "DO SOMETHING"...
I'm trying to DISCOURAGE her from the OLD PATTERNS...
Learned this from my H..
Although HE LOVES AND VALUES this about ME...
It is NOT ROMANTIC...
He would have been the CAKE-EATER FOREVER..USING me for THAT.. and going to the OW for the FUN and LAUGHS..and ADMIRATION..SHE NEEDED HIM...SHE NEEDED HIM...Hear me, Bugsy?..He wants YOU to NEED HIM...not for YOU to feel like HE NEEDS YOU...
My H and I had a conversation about this even TODAY. I still come across as a SUPERWOMAN..who doesn't HURT..who CAN HANDLE IT ALL..all by myself...
AND..like BUGSY..my H enjoyed CONVERSATION and SF with ME...BUT...I think she needs to RETHINK that MICROMANAGEMENT that she does...WANTING TO DO THE WORK for HIM..that she THINKS that HE CANNOT DO FOR HIMSELF...
BTDT is what I'm saying...
WOW! I lost internet capability for a few days and look what happens??!!
You all crack me up! I'm fine. I've been a Good Girl - well, for the most part.
I am offically not MAD at anyone!!
Just unable to post.
Sorry!
Ok, so a few 'business' type emails from/to Drac. Nothing much to report.
Tonight I had to email about some Ladybugs daycare stuff, so I threw in some Ladybug 'boy' interaction stuff, then threw in an associated "memory" from our past. He emailed back, and bit big time on the memory comment. I took it a step again by way of email and then it was time for Ladybug to call him. After she was done talking to him, he asked to speak to me.
He commented about the personal memory part of the email, we joked about Ladybug and the 'boys', and then we talked quite a while about work stuff. I did TONS of admiration. TONS. Nothing over the top, and all very sincere. Then, I asked what he was doing & he said opening mail. I replied, "one of my least favorite jobs".
He said, "I know you don't want to hear this, but I keep getting a certain person's mail. I just throw it in the trash. Most of it is all COLLECTIONS notices; I got bills from the "local power company" and paid them. They werent' mine, now they are sending refund checks, but it's in someone else's name, but it's MY money. I want to just sign them and cash them."
I replied, "Well, I think she's cost EVERYONE enough already. What's a little more in the $$ department as compared to the Total Cost? The last thing you need to do is cash them and get arrested for fraud. Consider it part of the Total Cost of the entire situation."
He didn't reply other than to say he was going to also throw the checks in the trash. Sorry, no sympathy from me on that. AND, it was clear from him tone & the way he framed his response that he Totally caught my meaning.
So we chatted for a bit longer and , we ended up with a light hearted joke and that was it.
LG, I love the posts that you shared. At the RIGHT time, they will be Perfect to share with Drac. Right now, though, Mimi is right in that it would be me trying to 'educate' him. If/when he acknowledges he's open to learning, those are going to be priceless. Thank you!!
As for you crazy :RollieEyes: emtiocon addicts
I love ya'll! I can't tell you how great it felt to get back on here and see you all going "at it"
in my absence!
Mimi - I DO know what you are saying. I'm not trying to educate, DJ, or think he's incapable of any thing. He does need to lead, but he needs a bit of 'encouragement' to know that I am sincere and to see for himself that things are different now.
As you say, breaking the old patterns! yet, keeping enough of the 'good' things to remind him what was good in the first place.
In talking about Ladybug, he said, "she's YOUR daughter" when I commented about 2 different little boys coming by tonight to play with her. He said, "She can have anyone she wants and just wraps them around her little finger". I laughed, and after denying that she was like me in that regard, I said "well, maybe you are right. She IS like me in that even if there are several choices, she KNOWS what she wants and there is always that special ONE that means the most to her. She knows what she REALLY wants." Our exchange following was about 'her' but he KNEW what I was talking about.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,that's what I've been up to - maybe good, maybe not. I'm ok with it no matter what you all may think,,,,,,,,,,,,but I AM terribly anxious to hear your thoughts and even more excited to see what Emoticons will go along with those thoughts!!
BTW - did I REALLY have lots of silences during Plan A? I felt like I posted hourly!! I still feel that way!
Bugsy:
We are going to have to call Mark1952 over her for some fishing lessons.
Your doing great.
I posted that info from Schoolbus in your thread because there will be a time for Drac to read it.
SB posted it to Not2L8, who returned home after moving out on lildoggie for a year. He has been here for a month and is still in withdrawal. It was timely for him. One thing to have in the quiver for Bugs when she needs it.
I put that one in, Well, because it was the only one NOT used.
LG
Man, so it wasn't all about ME?????
MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS..I'm losing MY POWER... :RollieEyes:
I'm GLAD to know that ALL is WELL!!
Bugsy:
We are going to have to call Mark1952 over her for some fishing lessons.
Your doing great.
I posted that info from Schoolbus in your thread because there will be a time for Drac to read it.
SB posted it to Not2L8, who returned home after moving out on lildoggie for a year. He has been here for a month and is still in withdrawal. It was timely for him. One thing to have in the quiver for Bugs when she needs it.
I put that one in, Well, because it was the only one NOT used.
LG
:MrEEk:
Its not that I dont think its cute and all, but Flick is mine, Not2L8 belongs to 2B1
Not2L8 thought much nmore highly of SB's post than Flick did.
Back to lurk.
Did somebody say "fishing?"
For tournament fishermen part of the trick is finding something that will get a fish to bite even when he isn't trying to eat.
This can be thought of as a trigger and can be a sound, a shape, a color, a motion or any combination of about a dozen things. When the right combination is found, the big ole bass comes out of his hiding place and snatches the bait and ends up in somebody's livewell on his way to the weigh-in table.
The trick is to find just the right combination...
But all this begs the question as to whether or not that is the right approach to this...
Maybe a bank fishing type of expedition is required here. Put out the bait
, open up a lawn chair and have a beer...
Let the fish find you!
Here fishy fishy...
Mark
Well, after a bit more flirting via email last night, I emailed a more serious message and now I intend to retreat/withdraw back to more darkness.
I just told him that while I was very tempted to ask him over, I would rather have the drink & talk with him. As I had told him the other night on the phone, life is too short for me to not be totally honest about what is most important. I know what I want and what I need, and although I may be afraid, I want & need to be honest with him. I can get a piece of a$$ lots of places, but I want/need more than that with him.
I know it's a big risk. Timing may or may not be right. Yet, it is the truth. He will either rise to the occassion or he will walk away. Either way, I'll be fine. I have stated the truth, given him the opening, made it pretty darn obvious what I want, and now it's up to him.
As much as I enjoyed the 'fun' and games of the flirting, and I know it was depositing love units in his bank, it's time for Bugs to get some deposits in return. He is capable if he chooses.
So far, no reply.
I'm on my way to the airport shortly for a day trip. Hope flights are on time so I can get home later tonight.
Not going to mince words here..
Bugsy.. I'm worried about you.
I may be missing something here, and am fully willing to admit, given the fact that I'm way behind you in this whole sordid mess and may never even get to where you are.. but as someone who cares I don't want to just stay quiet about my concerns.
Please please please read carefully what Mimi, LG, and others have been saying. I know Steve told you that you'd have to do some coaxing but after reading the recent exchanges I still 'feel' like you're leading this way too much. Instead of luring him in with enticing offers, I'm concerned that if things keep going in this fashon he's going to feel like a lamb being ushered through the chutes and as he gets closer his fear and uncertainty is going to mount.
This is still a marathon, not a sprint.. I don't want to see you force this and end up in a false recovery.. I don't want to see Drac go back to fence sitting and HURTING Bugsy or confusing Ladybugs.. Just like you, I want to see a COMMITTED H return to you and your family, but just like giving up ANY addiction, he has to WANT it, otherwise it won't stick..
I admire your strength and courage in trying this.. but you don't have to power lift the entire recovery process.. Drac is going to have to do his share.. and right now it -seems- to me that he's laying back and letting you make all the decisions.. letting you set the table AND cook the dinner AND clean the dishes afterwards.. Why? Because you aren't giving him the CHOICE to WANT it.. I just don't want to see you give away the farm to someone who isn't going to go till the field without being told to.. I don't want to see you end up in a relationship where you ALWAYS have to dangle the carrot to MAKE HIM WANT to do the right thing for you and Ladybugs..
I'm just worried for you Bugsy.. and I hope hope hope I'm wrong here.. but please, at least go back and read what the others are telling you here, and then look at the context of your communications with Drac.. I'm sure there's a lot we aren't seeing.. but from what I am able to read.. it feels to me almost like you're pulling him along, rather than encouraging him to walk with you.
Just my un-asked-for $.02
OOOO, Girl, you just took a HUGE leap, 0 to 60 in 5 seconds flat! Sounds like you are in manager position.
NOW, the best thing you can do is get QUIET. NO matter how long it takes for a response, get QUIET. Stay cool, Bugsy.
I know it's a big risk. Timing may or may not be right. Yet, it is the truth. He will either rise to the occassion or he will walk away. Either way, I'll be fine. I have stated the truth, given him the opening, made it pretty darn obvious what I want, and now it's up to him.
As much as I enjoyed the 'fun' and games of the flirting, and I know it was depositing love units in his bank, it's time for Bugs to get some deposits in return. He is capable if he chooses.
Not trying to harp on things here Bugsy.. but look here at what you wrote.
I think we all know that the 'luring back' process really is another Plan A in dealing with a WS in withdrawl.. and he IS in withdrawl and on the rebound here.. (I could be wrong here.. Mimi, feel free to smack me if I am)
This.. what you wrote above.. is your 'taker' talking.
All,
Thanks for the concerns - I see what you are saying and the reasons for your concerns.
I am happy with my action. He has replied he is wanting to re-build our friendship. He knows he needs to work on himself and his relationship with his kids and being 'single' with life relationships on hold for now. He said he should have done that when we separated, but he didn't. He can't change that now, and what's done is done.
That is ok with me.
I am fine.
I am happy to sit back and live my life. I have no expecations. I don't see this leading to recovery. I could be wrong someday, but maybe not. Either way, I'm feeling good.
I wish I could explain. Yes, maybe it was me 'managing', but I didn't/don't see it that way. Perhaps that is work for me to continue with. I needed, for my own sake, to set my path better. I was obcessing about him, his thoughts, his needs, his wants, his this, his that. All wrong stuff.
I need to be thinking about Bugs, Bugs thoughts, Bugs needs, Bugs everything.
I know that I can't be his 'friend'. It would hurt too much. I don't want to just be 'civil' with him. I am not capable of that right now, I am still in love with him. Way too much in love with him. Having him be nice to me just stirs those love feelings. I don't want him angry and cruel,,,,,,but too friendly isn't going to work for me either.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,I don't know what to say. I did what I did. I am ok with it. Beat me all you want, question my motives, say I was wrong. I'm not going to question it now. I just want to move forward.
Hey Bugsy.. I really wasn't trying to beat up on you.
Really hope you know that.
Not really sure what to say at this point other than to reassure you that we are all behind you 100%.
Nobody's beating you up, Bugsy. We care for you, that's all, and are outsiders looking in to a situation that some of us have been thru before, and want to pass on our hard earned wisdom. It's not about right and wrong, it's about timing and about personal change.
You wanted an answer in your time, so that you could drop it or move forward, or whatever term you apply. It's EARLY yet with Drac, and he's fuzzy headed. You jumped the gun, and the response you got is one that happens when push comes to shove. You STILL have no idea where he really stands.
IMO, backing off is the best thing for you. Putting the focus back on you is what is best. Do not consider Drac in any decisions having to do with you alone, or with your time with the kids. I could hear you obsessing with him. It's not healthy for you, Bugsy.
Much love to you, Bugsy. I know this is not what you wanted to hear right now. Perhaps just taking a break from this, reevaluating your approach. Slow your roll, enjoy your life, your kids.
Good morning, Bugs!
(and the rest of you Emoticonographil wannabes)
Trying to write without emoticons is like not talking with your hands. I just can't do it.
First off - ---->>
<<----- in regards to schoolbus' post.
Absolutely amazing. How could you NOT feel something after reading that? Oh yea, I guess those with scar tissue obstructing the "reasoning" portion of the brain may have trouble.
I ain't naming any names here.
active/withdrawing WAYWARDS!
I really don't have any advice for you, Bugs, as I've never been in your shoes.
I do know I would have trouble not accepting crumbs from WxH. When he's nice, I can't help but be nice back and over accommodating.
I was thinking about that the other day. WHY can I fight with him by email or in court but as soon as his voice is in my ear, I give in - without much coaxing.
I think, for me, it's because emails and court are purely WxH. That is someone I can fight and enjoy every single moment of it.
It's his voice.
His voice.
His voice brings back a man from the dead, the memories and feelings come rushing back. A man I grieved for, a man I loved more than myself, a man I still desperately miss when I'm alone in bed at night, a man I still yearn for closure with.
The reasoning part of me knows with no uncertainty that he cannot (aka will not) be the man that I need and deserve.
But the old me who didn't know better....misses what I thought I had.
Just be careful, Bugs. We love ya and don't want to see you hurt at his hand. He has that power, and we know that waywards are fickle.
Fox
Yes, yes, yes!
This is exactly it...the Wayward, after D, would like to continue having all their needs met by anyone possible. They would like to maintain a friendship with their ex-spouse and be able to date. It is important to let him know this is not a possibility with you, you deserve more.
You have shown him the ivy-covered wall, shown him the gate, cleared it away, and opened it. Now it is time to be clear about the admission charge that comes to letting him in again..
and you said it VERY succintly in your last post...
It hurts too much and you harbor too much hope for you to be friends with him only to find out down the road he is dating again...and no, it is not enough for him to tell you he is not dating *now*, that just means it is a possibility in the future.
Co-parenting does not include talking on the phone about anything other than emergencies.
I know the fear, if you ask him point-blank if he would like to renew a committed relationship with you, then he could say no...and if he says no...then what? Then that is it, back to dark.
If he says yes, then the hard part comes in.
I understand why this limbo is a safe place...but not serving you, other than as a station between two places...
as soon as his voice is in my ear, I give in - without much coaxing
That's why Plan B is so critical.
Slight threadjack -- My daughter is going through a terrible ordeal right now with the father of her children/STBX boyfriend. She is essentially Plan B'ng him, except she wants no recovery, and she told me, "Mom, I'm fine but I know the minute I hear his "voice", I'll cave."
I remember experiencing that as well. That sweet-talking devil (my FWH) could get to me so easy if he could just get me to hear his voice.
Anyways, threadjack over.
I just told him that while I was very tempted to ask him over, I would rather have the drink & talk with him. As I had told him the other night on the phone, life is too short for me to not be totally honest about what is most important. I know what I want and what I need, and although I may be afraid, I want & need to be honest with him. I can get a piece of a$$ lots of places, but I want/need more than that with him.
Bugs, I bet you're a terrible poker player (or an outstanding one with your least expected moves)
You essentially have shown your hand and given him back the power. I hate that for you because we all know from your Plan A experiences that DRAC is a famous cake-eater. He wants to be friends, possibly friends-with-benefits.
What's said is said though. Girl, you're tough. You put it out there. Kinda like putting the question of recovery out of it's misery. Making it quick and painless (we hope).
... watching for the next move
That's why Plan B is so critical.
You're right. It gives you a chance to shore up those walls and gain strength and truly "see" some of the manipulation in that voice.
That sweet-talking devil (my FWH) could get to me so easy if he could just get me to hear his voice.
Yup, and they know this.
Some of my favorite memories of him center around the sound/feel of his voice. Laying with my head on his chest as he talked or sang with a song on the radio, feeling the rumble through me more than actually hearing the words.
Or dancing in the living room to the radio, for no reason other than to touch each other and be close. Being close enough to feel his voice as he quietly sang.
It was the one place I could rest and find comfort, closing out the rest of the world.
(This icon needs some work, too. This one is bawling - and I don't bawl. More of a silent weeper or a lump in the throat being held back - that might be kinda hard for an emoticon. Bummer.)
'tis no more.
And I need to not allow the memories to color my judgement of the present. Easier said then done, but at least I've recognized it.
Hugs to your DD - it's a tough thing to fight. Essentially, you are fighting YOURSELF.
/threadjack
Fox
Bugs,
it's a tough thing to fight. Essentially, you are fighting YOURSELF.
...I think Fox is 'right on the money'!
...uhmmm....BTW Fox and others...
I am also part of the club of those having a very BIG issue with hearing WS's 'voice'! :RollieEyes: and, of course, he knows it, too!
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((BUGS)))))))))))))))))))))
The whole voice thing is why I do not communicate by phone at all. I've only spoken to the Z a couple of times since he left. Most of our communique is by email. That voice is far too familiar, and I become EMOTIONAL (and not just those happy wappy feelings, but ALL of them at once) when I hear it.
It's best for me to NOT hear him speak, so that I can keep my head clear and focused.
Good for you Bugsy!
Sounds like he was trying to order the "friends with benefits" and you had to let him know that wasn't on the menu.
So...go on with your life. Keep your pace. Maybe he will catch up (and catch on...) but if not -- then you know you have done all that you can do.
Never in a million years would we encourage you to accept one inch less than you deserve.
So -- keep moving on. MCD? Just askin....
Bugsy:
Where is that emoticon with the drumming fingers?
That's where you are at.
You are playing this well. He gets to see "portions" of you.
When he starts revelling in that, you pull back, and re-interate what you need to show him "all of you".
You COULD teach Mark about fishing....
Because you are working your fish like a master. You ARE dangling the hook REAL CLOSE.
WHen Drac wraps his lips around your hook, he may do it with fangs, or not. But you will know.
That's why you have done so well so far.
Darkness now. Drac likes the chase.
LG
Ladies: About the voice? Oh yes. I can wrap Flamingo up with it.
Nasty I am.
It's SO much better now.
LG
He has replied he is wanting to re-build our friendship. He knows he needs to work on himself and his relationship with his kids and being 'single' with life relationships on hold for now. He said he should have done that when we separated, but he didn't. He can't change that now, and what's done is done.
Am I reading this RIGHT? Is he saying that you were just "SEPARATED" and that he did not leave you for another woman???..sounds like FOGGY BULLCRAP to me...
What me thinks is that he thinks he's going to convince you to have it HIS WAY..to BE FRIENDS, etc....
Me thinks that going DARK still offers the best chance for RECOVERY...
That's what worked for my CAKE-EATING HUSBAND..him having to make it in this life COMPLETELY and TOTALLY without me is what worked and ANY, ANY MEETING of HIS EMOTIONAL NEEDS by me PROLONGED HIS WAYWARDNESS EVEN LONGER..each and every time I did it..and I was ALWAYS TEMPTED once I had ANY CONTACT with HIM (so I truly understand)
Me thinks that Drac is that way...
He got enough of his FIX of YOU and so he is not IN PAIN...
PAIN AND SUFFERING brings about CHANGE..
So given that he is feeling OK now, what MOTIVATION does he have to RECOVER?
BUT..BUT..I TRULY, TRULY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU DID, BUGSY. I prolly would have done THE SAME...
But..sit back and watch him try to come after you if you REMAIN DARK...I betcha he will pull all kinds of tricks if you were able to do that...
I encourage you to TRY IT...
You wanted an answer in your time, so that you could drop it or move forward, or whatever term you apply. It's EARLY yet with Drac, and he's fuzzy headed. You jumped the gun, and the response you got is one that happens when push comes to shove. You STILL have no idea where he really stands.
YEP..I agree with SL...
Beat me all you want, question my motives, say I was wrong.
Now, who in the world is gonna do that to BUGSY????
Let me know and I'll come get them...
Hi everyone!
Finally made it home, fed the pets, had some dinner. Oh, and found Drac's profile on Match.com. He was 'fairly' honest on the profile. I did laugh at how he's a "Southern Gentleman". Oh and he DEFINATELY wants another child and now has an affinity for jazz!
Oh, and while the age range he is looking for is pretty wide, it doesn't include MY age! ha!
I'll be honest it hurts. Especially since Ladybug mentioned for the 2nd time that he's spending more time on match.com than with her. Geez, you'd think he'd do it after she's in bed. What a foggy self centered putz. So much for that 'relationships on hold so he can focus on his kids and his career'. Just WHO does he think he's fooling?
I've gone up and down but only a tiny flux, not the huge rollercoaster since finding the profile. I asked God at one point to please just make me stop caring!!
Then I was ok. Not great, but ok.
I did consider making up a profile & contacting him. Does that make me EVIL?
Just think of the email exchanges I could have with him! Lead him on, tune him up, and then cut him loose!! ha!! Ok, that's definately EVIL, but it still makes me smile to think about what fun that could be!!
I could always just do my own profile,,,,The truth of it is he'll never find anyone (match.com or elsewhere) that is any better than me. I hope all of his 'matches' end up being mean, ugly, nasty women!!
I totally appreciate everyone's concern. I also appreciate the input - even if it's things you think I don't want to hear. That's why I consider you all friends. Only friends care enough to be totally honest with you, even when you don't necessarily want them to be!
LG, I do like to think perhaps it's decent fishing skills on my part. What I end up catching,,,if anything, remains to be seen.
I think I will sit on the bank with a drink (sorry, beer isn't my drink of choice). I like the shadey, dark part of the bank under a nice tree. Am thinking of stringing up a hammock and taking a nap!
The fish will just have to feed themselves for a while.
Hey, Bugs
I think he's not out of the Fog yet. Like Mimi says, he hasn't suffered enough yet.
Sorry about the match thing. I know that's a disappointment.
You wanted to know, so you tossed your line out. I think you made more of a splash with the bait than you meant to, but I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing, so no 2x4s from me. But now it's time to sit really still and wait and see what happens.
Dark.
Bugs
I've gotta read that BUYERS, RENTERS, FREELOADERS book by DR. HARLEY, newly entitled THE ONE.. to get a better understanding..BUT..
Do you think that Drac is the kinda guy that doesn't believe in LONG-TERM COMMITMENT? I think LG mentioned this once...
This is how Drac diverges from my H..(I've been trying to figure this out for myself)..I'm thinking my H is a BUYER..I couldn't IMAGINE him going to Match.com...he went from the OW STRAIGHT back to ME...See the difference???..
I'm not saying that my H is PREFERABLE..because he would be the TYPE to MARRY the OW...
Just TRYING to MAKE SENSE out of this CRAP... :crosseyedcrazy:
Mimi,
I've been doing a bit of reading in that area myself. I think that Drac 'wants' at times to be a buyer, but he's lived most of his life as a renter.
When times get tough, he reacts as a renter.
Then moves on to look for new real estate.
That's what he's doing now I think. Checking the market, thinking that there is just oh so much fun out there that he NEEDS to experience. Instead of looking at what changes he could/should make inside himself to have any type of successful long term relationship, it's easier to move on.
Don't get me wrong. I do believe he intuitively KNOWS what we had is by far better than he ever realized/admitted. He knows that when he hooked up with the Ho, he re-wrote a lot of stuff, but he's not to the point of admitting that we had anything other than a "Great friendship"
He is sticking with his creation that 'the worst/most hurtful thing is that we ruined a great friendship'. He doesn't get it that the Friendship was so great because of the LOVE relationship,,,,,not the other way around. I would have never had such a friendship with anyone I didn't love.
He's carefully crafted his image of "his life & his future" and is living the way he 'should have when we separated'. In other words, since it didn't work out with the Ho, he's created a new fantasy world.
By the time he realizes this, too is all 'fantasy', and recognizes that he had the stuff that dreams are made of with me, I expect I will have found a new dream.
I'm just going to hang out here and find a way to start livin' the dream. I want so badly to have someone care. Someone who calls me at 2 am, just to hear the sound of my voice. Someone who drives by my house in the middle of the night to make sure everything is ok. Someone to hold me and never want to let me go.
Ok, now I went and did it. I started down the "I want" path and now I'm crying. Darn it!!
Well, I gotta buck it up and get a report done. I should know better than to try to post during working hours!
he re-wrote a lot of stuff, but he's not to the point of admitting that we had anything other than a "Great friendship"
He is sticking with his creation that 'the worst/most hurtful thing is that we ruined a great friendship'. He doesn't get it that the Friendship was so great because of the LOVE relationship,,,,,not the other way around. I would have never had such a friendship with anyone I didn't love.
I know that this is ARMCHAIR PSYCHOLOGY without me even KNOWING HIM..but it seems like he's FEARFUL OF INTIMACY..because, IN MY MIND, what my H and I have NOW is a DEEPER, CLOSER FRIENDSHIP..with TRANSPARENCY...which is SCARY, have to be VULNERABLE..but is what makes a GREAT MARRIAGE..SPECIAL..with a CAPITAL S...
As much as I HATE saying THIS..MAYBE he's NOT YOUR GUY..he's NOT the MARRYING KIND...he may go throughout the rest of his life from WOMAN to WOMAN and if you stay hooked into him, it may keep you from FINDING that BUYER out there that you WANT, NEED AND
DESERVE ...
I want so badly to have someone care. Someone who calls me at 2 am, just to hear the sound of my voice. Someone who drives by my house in the middle of the night to make sure everything is ok. Someone to hold me and never want to let me go.
HE is OUT THERE...in this WORLD waiting and looking for YOU...
I can safely say that I want the same things, Bugsy.
I know that you are disappointed, but look at what you posted that you could be giving up if you persued Drac. You could be giving up your chance to put into practice what you have learned with someone HIGHLY receptive to forever after with YOU.
In the end, I believe the Zombie was well planted in renterville, with some crazy idea that he was a buyer, and that I was just the wrong girl for the position. HE may just be a playa, and that's how he likes it. I dunno, and I don't care anymore.
What I want and need is someone who WANTS to be devoted to me, and who wants me to be devoted to him; who realizes he's only missing out if he's NOT with me. Someone who values a good woman enough to forsake all others. The Z is not that man.
I'm just using my HUSBAND the BUYER to understand this...
Yes, he did have AN AFFAIR..but it was DEFINITELY a ROMANTIC ONE..and he was mostly FRIENDS with the OW at first..that's how their RELATIONSHIP started...
He REALIZED that SHE REALLY WAS NOT HIS FRIEND..but that SHE was a RENTER/FREELOADER...whatever..NOT BUYER MATERIAL...for HIM...
He came back to ME because he is a BUYER...
See the DIFFERENCE in MY GUY to YOUR GUYS....
When he was a WAYWARD, HE WAS JUST AS BAD...and AWFUL..so I'm not trying to make him into being a GOOD GUY..
Just trying to MAKE SENSE of all of this CRAP as I said before...
It makes perfect sense to me Mimi.
Bugsy:
You have done all the right moves.
You have laid the bait trail.
You are giving HIM the chance to recover your relationship.
But that window will not, and should not, be open for long.
Drac IS a renter. Doesn't mean he can't come in from the cold and become a buyer.
But THAT is an observable ACTION.
The actions YOU see and/or hear about, however, do not appear to indicate that Drac is heading to BUYER mode.
Stay dark. Let him come to you.
And if he doesn't, I have one word for you:
LilSis.
She seems to have found somebody that really likes the new LilSis. Her WEx-H is off in turd-land, and she moved on.
Yes, your sitchs are different, and that window is open for Ex-H to step thru. But he still has to do it.
LG
I DO know that there can be someone to give me everything that I want and need. I know that I so totally deserve it, too!
The hard part is giving up on the one person with who I HAD those things, at least for a while.
Yes, he did have AN AFFAIR..but it was DEFINITELY a ROMANTIC ONE..and he was mostly FRIENDS with the OW at first..that's how their RELATIONSHIP started...
He REALIZED that SHE REALLY WAS NOT HIS FRIEND..but that SHE was a RENTER/FREELOADER...whatever..NOT BUYER MATERIAL...for HIM...
This is the same story with Drac. Mostly friends at first, that's how it started. He, too, realized she was a FREELOADER in pretty much every sense of the word.
He came back to ME because he is a BUYER...
See the DIFFERENCE in MY GUY to YOUR GUYS....
That IS the difference. Drac isn't the buyer your H is. That is for sure.
As LG points out, it's not to say that he couldn't move into that position if he wanted to. But it's HIS move to make. Nothing I have done or could do will force that move.
Yes, intimacy is an issue for Drac. Lots of FOO issues in that regard, as well as some abuse when he was a child. None of this has he really dealt with and his track record with trying to get help with it is worse than horrible. The ONE time he was (I think) getting close to dealing with in counseling, the R with the HO put an end to it. Apparently he did contact another counselor sometime last year, but instead of getting help, I think they had their own relationship! YUCK!
Wish I knew her name,,,,,,,,,,,she should not be licensed.
Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,back to Bugs. I know that I just need to step out into the pure sunshine and open myself up to the possibilities.
I've said before, I have not in the last year and a half been asked out once. Yes, there was/is MCD - - but that's more from a work/friends relationship. I've known him for so long it doesn't 'feel' like anything special.
I've not once been anywhere, met someone new, and been asked on a date.
Is it my keeping myself closed off? Sometimes, but not always.
I know I need to figure it all out again.
Sorry, but overall the whole idea of 'dating' again makes me want to
:twobyfour:
.
I know, I know, how then do I find The One? I was kind of hoping that God would just plop him down in front of me on a silver platter!
Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,back to Bugs. I know that I just need to step out into the pure sunshine and open myself up to the possibilities.
I LIKE THAT..opening yourself up to the possibilities...
Yes, there was/is MCD - - but that's more from a work/friends relationship. I've known him for so long it doesn't 'feel' like anything special.
I'm not recommending MCD..BUT..does it have to "feel like anything SPECIAL?" Isn't it BEST to start as FRIENDS..and not get caught up into the ADDICTIVE kinda thing..we know where that leads...YUCK...
You know...A GENTLEMAN CALLER...
I know, I know, how then do I find The One? I was kind of hoping that God would just plop him down in front of me on a silver platter!
You know ME...I believe that the LORD does have to be in this..IS in this for YOU...PRAY and ask for HIS direction and guidance...
Most importantly...LISTEN TO THE SPIRIT...HE often SPEAKS and WE DO NOT LISTEN...Ask the SAVIOR to HELP YOU...
Ahhh Bugsy.. I so acutely feel what you are feeling.
Here we've learned so much about relationships and how to make them last, work, and be WONDERFUL..
Yet here we are, holding out hope that the one person we promised to have THAT relationship with will be the right person to have WONDERFUL with..
Well.. the truth is, that person may just not be the right person.. but that doesn't mean YOU can't be.
But that's going to happen on your timetable.. when you're done holding the door open for Drac. Nobody is saying you have to rush.. and even once you close the door it may take time for that WONDERFUL to come around again.. no need to force it.
Couple of cliche things that come to mind:
If it seems like it's too good to be true.. it probably is.
Someone on here had this in their sig, and I think maybe it applies: A successful marriage isn't about FINDING the right person, it's about BEING the right person.
I really like that.. and it gives me hope in the knowledge that even if WW never comes to her senses and stops being a RENTER/FREELOADER coupled with a FREELOADER.. that I'll be able to find my own BUYER out there somewhere.
Well, I've decided to just try to put away these thoughts for now. Trying to get the match.com, renter/buyer, longing for a hug thoughts outta my mind for a few days.
It's sorta working, but sorta not. It just makes me ill to think about the match.com thing. Really ill. Especially in that he told Ladybug he's looking for a girlfriend. And that he's looking 'for her, too'.
I know he was trying to say that he's 'screening' them to find someone that would be good for her, too. But that's not the message she got. She's thinking, WHY does either of us need a girlfriend? She justs wants him and his undivided attention sometimes. Where's that hammer?? :twobyfour: :twobyfour:
She overheard him tell the Ho that all she cared about was herself and her family. I guess that was during the breakup. He never did explain anything to the kids about the breakup, just that they broke up. Not a good way to handle it IMHO, but that's just me.
Ladybug sees the possibilities of the future there,,,,,,,,,,,she knows that another girlfriend will come in. She may start to care about this one, too. Then what's going to happen. Will Daddy send that one packing, too? Why care about anyone when they are just going to be there for a brief stay?
At 7 she can't easily articulate that, but based on what she's told me, I know that's what is going on. Daddy dumped Mommy. Moved the Ho in. Dumped the Ho. He is already looking for another one?
It is very frustrating that he obviously does not see what values he is teaching the kids BY EXAMPLE about relationships.
Geez Louise! Even a 7 year old can see how messed up that is!
For all of his 'talk' about putting life relationships on hold, not even SHE is buying that line of crapola.
I am feeling a bit like SD in how much to share with him about this. If I try to tell him anything of how she is feeling, will it get through. Or, as I suspect, will he think it's ME trying to interfere/control with his PRIVATE life,,,,this wonderful life he should have been living.
When oh when will he see more of the cost to his kids because of the life he wants? Oh, and then I just see the section of his profile saying in DEFINATELY wants another child??? Why, so another child can feel neglected by Daddy?
Oh,,,,,,,,,Rant Over.
I think I feel a bit better now.
So, I think I forgot to mention that I'd dropped off a souvenier from one of my trips at his house the other night. It was a part of our joking the other day, something I'd picked up a while back, and I looked at it as a 'parting' gift.
He called at 5 o'clock yesterday. I was at latchkey picking up Ladybug, so I let her answer it. Heck, she was holding the phone anyway and knew it was him. They talked and then he asked for me.
I just asked 'what's up'. He first went into how he was suprised that Ladybug answered, which I am sure he was. He thought he was going to call and continue the 'flirty' joking because of the souvenier, instead, he got his daughter. So, he went on to say thanks. I simply said, welcome. He went into how busy he'd been all day, that he'd thought about emailing or calling the day before, but knew I was out of town. He was headed back to his office, he thought he'd call to say thanks.
I simply said, welcome. (again). He asked what was I up to and I said that I was busy right at the moment but I did not say with what, but left it hanging in the "what do you need, get on with it cause I gotta go' silence. He said he'd let me go. I said bye. I wasn't snippy or short. Just had the voice of someone who doesn't care.
There should be no further reasons for any calls between us.
Dinner with the girls was canceled for tonight. So I am waiting for it to cool off a bit and am going to get my yardwork done tonight.
Tomorrow DSS has his first football game. I am planning to go, but it's an hour 1/2 drive away and starts at 10 a.m! Yuck! I don't know if Drac is going or not. He has to get Ladybug to his mom's so he can be free to go to the 'wedding' that night. His mom's is another 1 1/2 hours the opposite direction.
Any suggestions on handling the sitch IF he is there? I figured I'd simply focus all of my attention on DD if I have to sit anywhere close to them. Don't know what I'll do if she's not there. Probably just take a seat somewhere away from him.
I think if you maintain contact with Drac, you stand a good chance of LOSING your LOVE for him.
That's a another GREAT reason for PLAN B if you want to RECOVER your marriage.
Bugs,
I probably would have done exactly what you did because I'm so darned impatient. It's OK. At least you know. I almost think that your attitude of someone who just doesn't care is a good one. If you have to see him, do that 180 thing.
What amazes me is that they look for someone else, someone new that they know nothing about etc., when there is someone that they know who is totally willing and available. DUH. Do they really want a life of going from one to the next? Was life with us so bad? I'll never get it.
I think they look for some one new because looking into their BS faces is like looking into the mirror.
This new person will not know that he/she cheated on their family or that they looked the person that loved them the best and lied and that they threw away what ever morals they had.
I agree with Swan's Song. It's easier for some of them to just keep running, like the Z. I'm not sure whether Drac falls into that category or not. He may just not have gotten all the way out of the Fog yet. Time will tell.
In the mean time, I'm with Mimi and think that you need to get your plan B protections working again. Or at least get darker.
Sorry for poor Ladybugs. They deserve it least of all and suffer the most. I certainly don't know what the right answers are, but I'll let you know how things are going for mine.
Bugsy:
Wow.
That must have been tough.
Drac's head is spinning.
"I thought I was getting somewhere!" "I was trying to be super friendly" "Bugs was responding!"
SLAM.
As Mimi keeps saying, make him FEEL THE DARKNESS.
MAKE him COME to the LIGHT.
Match.com relives the pain and removes him from your life.
Putz.
Sorry about Ladybugs. It's horrible to realize what type of daddy you have at 7. DSS is going to be so ill-served.
(((Bugsy)))
LG
Mimi,
Yes, no Plan B will equal loss of love for him. Honestly, that is a bit tempting at times! I told God the other day that I didn't want to care about Drac any more. I'm not sure if that's true or not,,,,,,,,I do know that whatever we pray and Believe we have received will be given to us. I just don't know if I have it in me to wait for it to arrive.
I don't have to decide right this minute, so I'm not going to decide just yet.
Swan & SD - I agree that there is truth to their not wanting ot face us, and thus have to face their actions. Yet, one would think that having their BS there, standing for the M and willing to work past all of their ugly actions, still loving them would mean more than the 'easy way' of a new R. I know it doesn't always work that way, just wish that it did.
"I thought I was getting somewhere!" "I was trying to be super friendly" "Bugs was responding!"
Yes, I think perhaps you are right. Yesterday Ladybug called me from Latchkey. She wanted me to call Drac for her to ask if she could go to a friend's house. Instead, I gave her Drac's number to call herself. Well, turns out the phone there would not call long distance, so I called & left him a message w/the number to call her directly.
He called me back and I let it go to vm. "Bugs, I talked to Ladybug. She wants to go to 'x' friend's house. Her mom's name is 'x'. I thought we should talk about this. How do you handle these situations? I understand you haven't met these people. I'm on my way to pick her up. Call me back".
I sent him email. "It's ok. She's been to their house before. I do know them. It's your weekend. Your call"
He replied, "Are we back to not talking again?"
I replied, "I am tied up right now"
That was it. No reply.
I was fine with it that way. As was discussed here earlier in the week, hearing his voice is hard enough,,,,,,,,,,,talking to him is worse. This was easier for me.
It wasn't an emergency. It wasn't vital that we actually speak. He's so quickly forgotten how 'unavailable' he was during the A and apparently thinks that I have no other things in my life that would prevent me from talking to him at any given moment. Not my problem.
It is sad about DD's realization and DSS's sitch is just as bad - if not worse in that regard. I can only hope that my continued presence in his life helps to offset that just a tiny bit.
I am planning to go to DSS's game today. Not even the prospect of having to deal with Drac can keep me away. I did talk to him on the phone last night and he mentioned his game today. He didn't ask if I was coming, so it will be a surprise for him.
So, I need to go iron some casual Goddess clothes, find my binoculars, and hit the road pretty soon.
I am SO hoping that he plays a few downs and that they WIN! It would be such a huge confidence boost for him!!
I'll let you know how it goes.
He replied, "Are we back to not talking again?"
He figured it out, which is excellent. You didn't have to expressly tell him. Stay dark.
Co-parenting they way they want it equals cake-eating. You were meeting some of his EN's, whether he would admit it or not. Maybe that's why I am resisting it.
Yet, one would think that having their BS there, standing for the M and willing to work past all of their ugly actions, still loving them would mean more than the 'easy way' of a new R. I know it doesn't always work that way, just wish that it did.
They would have to undo all of the hard work they put in justifying the affair.
Hang in there, and keep up the good work!
He replied, "Are we back to not talking again?"
Oh, I needed that laugh today Bugs. That Drac. He's pretty sharp, isn't he?
He replied, "Are we back to not talking again?"
I don't understand why you don't refer back to the PLAN B letter? Doesn't it still APPLY?
I don't understand why you don't straight up tell him how much this HURTS you, having contact with him?
I don't understand why you don't TELL HIM that you don't want to be HIS FRIEND?
As was discussed here earlier in the week, hearing his voice is hard enough,,,,,,,,,,,talking to him is worse. This was easier for me.
Why don't you TELL HIM? I'm confused.
I was wondering the same thing Mimi.
Bugs - I think it's time for a new plan b. You're no longer married. He's no longer with Ho. But he's dense. Yes, he can figure out you're back to not talking. But he's not bright enough to figure out you will never be just a friendly flirty co-parent with him.
You need to spell it out. Didn't Steve tell you that?
Yes, I agree.
You peeked your head out of Plan B, things were moving along, and WHAM! you got faced with a realization that maybe he's not on the same page.
So now what...he does not have the same information you have. If you go back to Plan B without some idea about what is happening with you it can be very confusing for him and for the situation.
I agree you need to say something to XH about what the situation has been...it can be as simple as..."I had heard the Ho was no longer in your life, I thought there was a chance we could head for reconciliation so I opened my heart, invited conversation, enjoyed the attention I was getting, then found out you are still seeking someone else and knew you were not considering reconciliation. We can be co-parents, but I can't be your friend, I harbor too much hope, and it hurts too much to just be friends with nothing more in the future. So, yes, we are back to not talking."
Is this the way your marriage worked too, did you keep your thoughts and feelings hidden?
..."I had heard the Ho was no longer in your life, I thought there was a chance we could head for reconciliation so I opened my heart, invited conversation, enjoyed the attention I was getting, then found out you are still seeking someone else and knew you were not considering reconciliation. We can be co-parents, but I can't be your friend, I harbor too much hope, and it hurts too much to just be friends with nothing more in the future. So, yes, we are back to not talking."
Agree. . . that's perfect!
Hi Bugs,
I haven't had a chance to read up, and haven't been on here at all. But I am thinking about you and wishing for the best. You and I both know how hard this is for you and what you want to do. I am also honest in saying I am watching this with so much hope on my heart that it works out for you.
You are so amazing and deserve the best that he can give you. I just want him to wake up and smell the latte.
I took a page from your book and have kept busy, but I think I over did it to survive and forget. One more way of me not feelign the pain of loss.
{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}
Morning everyone!
Hope this day finds you all well. I don't have a lot of time, so I'll just jump right into this. I didn't respond to Drac with the details of why we were going back to not talking because I had not yet prepared what I wanted to say.
I was taking the long weekend, without the kids, to give myself time to formulate what I wanted/needed to say. Then right here where I've found so much information, help, and support, I find this -
..."I had heard the Ho was no longer in your life, I thought there was a chance we could head for reconciliation so I opened my heart, invited conversation, enjoyed the attention I was getting, then found out you are still seeking someone else and knew you were not considering reconciliation. We can be co-parents, but I can't be your friend, I harbor too much hope, and it hurts too much to just be friends with nothing more in the future. So, yes, we are back to not talking."
Thanks SHM! That is really perfect. I have several versions of pretty much this same thing but hadn't settled on one. This is simple, straight forward, and touches the important facts. Thank you.
The weekend wasn't 'exciting' but it was fun. I spent a lot of time helping out a friend with a new love situation in her life, so it helped keep my thoughts off of my sitch. It helps to be able to help someone else.
We had a lot of fun, sitting poolside and just being Goddesses. We went out and had lots of laughs. I even spent time talking with a 'boy'. It was fun. Too bad it turns out that he's apparently either very needy or a borderline stalker! haha! Seriously, he's called & emailed me at least 10 times since Sunday night.
Remember my complaint about not getting asked out? Next time remind me to be careful what I wish for!
I have to run, but wanted to check in while I had a few minutes. I am feeling ok about everything and back to getting focused on Bugs.
Have a great day all! And thanks!!!
Hi Bugs,
Seems the theme to me this morning is G-d never gives us what we want, he gives us what we need. And his timing is always perfect.
Sometimes the answers to our prayers is no, we just don't realize it until afterwards.
Have a great day.. {{{{{{{{{{Bugs}}}}}}}}}}
Glad to hear you are feeling good, Bugs.
Great that you got to interact with a guy. Even if he is not worth pursuing, it must be a confidence boost. I mean, look how badly he wants some more BugsyTime.
We're here waiting for the details on what you tell Drac.
Yes, SD, it is a confidence booster. Stalkerboy is still at it today. I've been really busy at work, but maybe I'll call him tonight. I feel a bit sorry for him and I think maybe he just needs a friend. We'll see.
So, since you asked, here's what I have composed for Drac. It's quite a bit more wordy than the suggestion by SHM, but you be the judge.
Drac,
You asked the other day via email if we are not speaking again, and I wanted to address that question.
I've thought about our recent conversations. It was last year that I told you that I could not speak to you while you continued your affair with "the ho". I don't know that I did a very good job of explaining 'why' and I suspect that you may have taken that request as an attempt to control or manipulate you.
I simply couldn't stand to hear your voice. It just hurt too much. I had to protect myself from the continued pain of loving you still. I didn't want our marriage to end. Continuing to speak to you, to hear your voice made me unable to cope with the loss of the most important person/relationship I'd ever had in all my life, and the loss of The Love of my life. It was a stab in my heart ever time we'd speak.
Life has gone on since then. The gaping wounds on my heart & soul are no longer controlling my very existence and have begun to heal.
I heard that "the ho" was gone, and seemingly for good this time. So, I opened the door to communication with you.
I invited the conversation. I enjoyed the interaction & the attention. Your call a few weeks ago took me by surprise, as did most of what you had to say. You said at the time you had been drinking, so I don't know if you recall it much. Several things you said did surprise me to hear, but what surprised me most of all was that it touched my heart. I wasn't prepared for that.
I realize you are seeking someone else and are not interested in reconciliation. We can be co-parents, but I cannot be your friend. That is very hard for me to say to the person who was the best friend I ever had. I still harbor too much hope for us that it hurts too much to be just friends with nothing more possible in the future.
So, I ask that we stick with communicating via email, and only about the kids. As always, emergencies are a reason for a phone call.
That's it. There are parts I am not real certain about, but I've kept them in here just to get opinions. A final draft is yet to come.
I don't know if I would mention that you know he is seeking someone else, but everything else in the letter sounds very heartfelt and REAL. I like it.
I know this latest bit of contact has you thrown for a loop, and pained again by the lackluster reception to your opened door. I hope that you can find some peace back in a bit of darkness. Drac really does need to be the one to come to you. He needs to be the one seeking YOU out, and not the other way around. This is his battle to fight, not yours. You are worth the fight.
It was last year that I told you that I could not speak to you while you continued your affair with "the ho". I don't know that I did a very good job of explaining 'why' and I suspect that you may have taken that request as an attempt to control or manipulate you.
This sounds like a putdown of yourself and a DJ. You start off WIMPY and not CHEST OUT by saying that you did not do a "good job". Why did YOU have to do a "good job" of explaining? And seems to me you are ASSUMING that he thinks you were trying to control or manipulate him..and who gives a FLIP what HE THINKS... You were speaking to him about what YOU decided to do because he was having an affair that HE CHOSE to CONTINUE.
I simply couldn't stand to hear your voice. It just hurt too much. I had to protect myself from the continued pain of loving you still. I didn't want our marriage to end. Continuing to speak to you, to hear your voice made me unable to cope with the loss of the most important person/relationship I'd ever had in all my life, and the loss of The Love of my life. It was a stab in my heart ever time we'd speak.
IMO, it doesn't seem necessary to go back and re-explain this. He didn't GET IT THEN and doesn't seem to GET IT NOW...I mean..I suggest talking to him about NOW...
So I suggest BASICALLY sticking to what you said below:
I heard that "the ho" was gone, and seemingly for good this time. So, I opened the door to communication with you.
I invited the conversation. I enjoyed the interaction & the attention. Your call a few weeks ago took me by surprise, as did most of what you had to say. You said at the time you had been drinking, so I don't know if you recall it much. Several things you said did surprise me to hear, but what surprised me most of all was that it touched my heart. I wasn't prepared for that.
But, it seems that you are not interested in reconciliation as I had hoped. I will co-parent with you , but I cannot be your friend. That is very hard for me to say to the person who was the best friend I ever had. I still harbor too much hope for us that it hurts too much to be just friends.
So, I ask that we stick with communicating via email, and only about the kids. As always, emergencies are a reason for a phone call.
I still don't think it's HOPELESS...IF you go DARK...
Heck Bugs, I don't know - but I like it. Sounded good to me, but I obviously am not the expert. I'll just be content to stay in the cheering section for you.
My instinctive response was that I liked SHM's shorter version better. Upon reading it a couple of times, I agree with SL that it is all good stuff and looks okay.
My only comment is that
I heard that "the ho" was gone, and seemingly for good this time. So, I opened the door to communication with you.
doesn't specifically say that you opened the door because you are still seeking reconciliation. SHM said something like 'thought reconciliation might be a possibility' or the like.
Why not include something like that?
Also, can you put your "What would Steve want me to say" hat on?
I know. I think I was being PICKY..
But, it's SOOOO IMPORTANT to maintain your SELF-RESPECT...
HEAD UP, CHEST OUT...not wishy-washy..to the point..
He doesn't need lots of EXPLANATION..it's not THAT COMPLICATED...
The message..I'M MOVING ON...
I think that is sooo KEY..for RECOVERY...SELF-RESPECT..."I'm not taking anymore of your crap"...
Lately, NOT2 and MOGI are examples of that on the FORUM...
My husband had to GET and KNOW that I would be FINISHED with him and NOT his FRIEND if he did not choose me as HIS WIFE...and he is the PROUD TYPE, too...
I am not being a negative Nelly here when I say that Mimi's approach will also give you a more solid answer as to what Drac's position is in all of this. If he is a bonafide full time cake eater/full time renter, he'll let you know and then you REALLY can move on.
I made it very clear to the Z what I wanted to do and he made it clear he was unwilling. It has helped me a great deal to know that, as of now, there is no hope for him to 'come around'. One day, he could, but I can't see sitting and waiting for that to happen, putting my life on hold for so long. You could be waiting out a long drought.
Anyway, just thought I pop in, drop my $.02 and sail.
Lawyer's office called today; she is drafting up my limited divorce.
Boy, I agree, and think it is about an ultimatum.
It comes down for a choice for him, does he want the friendship and the loving commitment that comes with reconciliation with his WHOLE heart, or the email-only, emergency-only, co-parenting that will happen for the rest of your lives.
I think he is having a hard time believing this is for good, he has not come to a place of regret yet, because it appears he thinks he can always "come back".
Have you reached that point where it's now...or never? Or will there ever be this point? Or will it always be left with..."when you want me I'll be waiting..." Or is it, "It is time to decide and stop playing with my emotions, wanting me hanging in the wings until you finish sowing your wild oats..."
What is YOUR choice?
Are you afraid if you made him make up his mind today, drawing a line in the sand, he would choose to stay away?
Bugs:
Here are my thoughts:
Drac,
You asked the other day via email if we are not speaking again, and I wanted to address that question.
I've thought about our recent conversations. It was last year that I told you that I could not speak to you while you continued your affair with "the ho". I don't know that I did a very good job of explaining 'why' (I had to stop having conversations directly with you, but I will try to be direct with you now.)
I simply can not stand to hear your voice. It just hurt too much. I had to protect myself from the continued pain of loving you still. I didn't want our marriage to end. Continuing to speak to you, to hear your voice made me unable to cope with the loss of the most important person/relationship I'd ever had in all my life, and the loss of The Love of my life. It was a stab in my heart ever time we'd speak.
Life has gone on since then. Divorce, new houses, new lives. The gaping wounds on my heart & soul are no longer controlling my very existence and have begun to heal.
I heard that "the ho" was gone, and seemingly for good this time. So, I opened the door to communication with you.
I invited the conversation. I enjoyed the interaction & the attention. Your call a few weeks ago took me by surprise, as did most of what you had to say. You said at the time you had been drinking, so I don't know if you recall it much. Several things you said did surprise me to hear, but what surprised me most of all was that it touched my heart. Repairing wounds faster than they had been being repaired. I, frankly, wasn't prepared for that.
I realize you are still seeking others for relationships. I believed, that you may have been interested in reconciliation.
Since possible reconcilliation does not appear to be one of your goals, then I can not continue having direct conversations with you. The potential further pain that would cause me would be far to great to endure again.
We can be co-parents, but I cannot be your friend. That is very hard for me to say to the person who was the best friend I ever had. I still harbor too much hope for us that it hurts too much to be just friends with nothing more possible in the future.
So, I ask that we stick with communicating via email, and only about the kids. As always, actual emergencies are a reason for a phone call.
Still here: If Bugs is giving him an ultimatum, so be it. Drac CAN NOT think that Bugs will be waiting around in two-three or more years, pining away.
She revealed herself. He responded. But.....
She is putting the ball back in his court.
"I am open to a future relationship with you. But I will not be open to you forever. IF you do, come to me and we can try."
Pretty simple message, really.
Bugs: I think you are handling this quite well.
Stalkerboy needs to be sent away. Yes, YOU ARE A CATCH. But bite the right bait. Your worth the wait.
LG
Thanks everyone for the input.
Well, with chin up, chest out, and wearing my "What would Steve say" hat, I've made some modifications to the letter. Less wimpy. More simple facts of the choice Iam making for me.
Without a doubt, given the ultimatim Drac will take a pass on me. He's been clear about that. Now, is that because he thinks I'll still be waiting in the wings? I don't know. I don't know that he has any clue that I have continued to harbor hope for us all of this time. He's always perceived me as 'strong & decisive', so likely as he stated early on, he's convinced himself I've moved on long ago, despite any of the times that I've told him otherwise.
The point of the letter is to let him know why we aren't talking, why we won't be friends (by letting him know that I still have love for him), and at the same time letting him know that I'm not waiting around for him to 'finish sowing his wild oats'.
Honestly, I believe he's long been in the place of accepting that I've moved on. He doesn't really care that I continue to have love for him, as he does not believe reconciliation to something better is possible with me.
Yes, he would continue to be a cake-eater by having and using my 'friendship'. He doesn't know what we know about how that works - he's uneducated. I can't educate him until/unless he steps forward wanting that. Even unconciously, he's choosing the email only co-parenting with calls for emergencies only.
Yes, he took the bait at getting more when I opened the door, but he's only come as far as the threshold. He's not wanting to come on in. He's moved on.
And I move on, too. Don't get me wrong, I am honest enough with myself to admit that I haven't slammed the door. I've merely turned my back on it to attend to other matters in my own house. I still have a ear open listening for the doorbell ring.
Bugs:
He knows there is a doorbell.
If he can't push it, then......
(((Bugsy)))
LG
He knows there is a doorbell.
If he can't push it, then......
(((Bugsy)))
EXACTLY..
Hey Bugs,
I have to say that I can so identify with some of what you are going through. Since exWW has been back from her "vacation" I have allowed her to visit with the kids some in our home. This was something she had wanted to do leading up to the D being final and I was against it because I thought it would be confusing for the kids and also would have been enabling her. I have only allowed it recently for the kid's benefit since they missed so much of the summer with her.
Even though I feel like I do a good job of staying detached while she is here, I can't do it anymore because I still get into a funk afterward and, as I was afraid of, it is impacting DS7's behavior both while she is here and for some time after she leaves, and to be honest I am tired of having to deal with that myself. This is too close to what she wanted all along, which was a "friendly divorce" just like the example she threw out of Bruce Willis and Demi Moore (bleah, like Hollywood is a good example of anything to follow)
So I'm borrowing against the advice you get as it relates to me. Hope you don't mind
Bugs....
This isn't really what I was advocating. But maybe Steve steered you differently.
Have you already sent your message?
My "vision" of this would have been to start filling his lovebank. Make as many deposits as you can (for a limited amount of time...like a month). He needs to fall back in love with you. And I think that could easily happen.
Because your account balance isn't high enough to give ultimatiums....
So no...he's not ready for reconciliation. Because he doesn't have that "in-love" feeling for you -- YET --. My thought was to Plan A for a month. Get him CRAVING you.
You can't rush him into wanting to reconcile. Marathon, remember?
I'm so sorry I haven't been able to keep up with your thread.
I was working at the RNC and its been a crazy crazy week!
I was working at the RNC and its been a crazy crazy week!
Lexxxy, how old are you and what state are you Governer of?
ROFL...right age, wrong state
The reason I haven't agreed with Lexx is that he is such a CAKE-EATER..I think those are a different breed...
And to change, I think a WAYWARD needs to SUFFER...
But, of course, follow the plan as suggested by Steve...
My WH, the ultimate CAKE-EATER had to SUFFER and feel that he was REALLY going to LOSE ME..FOREVER...the point behind PLAN B...
He would have been a CAKE-EATER..FOREVER..and EVER..told me so..always wanted to keep me READY and WAITING..IF he EVER decided to STOP PLAYING OUT IN THE STREETS...
Never mind - I read things wrong....sorry for the intrusion
Bugsy,
I would consult Steve if you are feeling wishy washy on this. On one hand, I agree with Lexxy, that Drac may need to begin FEELING something for you again, before being approached with an ultimatum, but on the other, more first hand experience, the cake-eater was alive and thriving in the Zombie. He did want home, the comforts and the parts of me that were easy-breezy. The overwhelming guilt/anger/entitlement-trio, when I would be sad or NEED something from him, was his guiding light and it lead us into another false recovery. There was no real commitment to change. There were plenty of WORDS ABOUT change, but no actions.
I dunno. It may just be really early in all this. It takes a LOT of willpower on both sides to make recovery work. It doesn't sound like Drac is even close to taking that leap of faith and endurance.
That is why I would follow Steve's advice at this juncture. How long did he advise you to Plan A?
That is why I would follow Steve's advice at this juncture. How long did he advise you to Plan A?
Excellent advice from my compadre here.
Lexxy's words about marathon not sprint resonated with me. And you did kind of rush things, what with the showing of your cards and all. Not to blame or bash or anything.
I think you should check in with Steve again and give him an update and see what he recommends. I don't believe that you are Done yet.
Bugs
Lexx:
Heres why, (unless Steve H has recommended it...) I do not recommend that Bugsy go to a true Plan A.
And I do not believe that she has given him an ultimatum.
Drac will cake-eat. Because its the type of guy that he is.
Bugsy gave him a "taste" of what he can have AGAIN.
That is the bugsy difference. It's AGAIN.
The M was good. Drac had some issues, and Bugsy has looked in the mirror of MB and realized the problems that she was bringing to a relationship. (Someone, yes, SOMEONE, is going to be the beneficiary of that.)
She let him in and dropped Plan B for a couple of days/weeks. Drac saw this. Drac responded to it. She has now plainly let him know that she may have gone to far and that DRAC has to come to HER to continue to possible reconciliation.
That could be construed as an ultimatum, but no it isn't it is establishing her boundary and why it was set in the first place.
The rest is up to Drac. And he is differnet than LilSis's H. Both went to Plan D, but LilSis's H didn't really move towards LilSis during her Plan A. Drac responded to it, but liked having BOTH. He will continue, if he can.
So, Bugs should go DARK again.
I always stated that she should have a copy of her Plan B letter handy to give to Drac if he ever asked to "hook-up" Or go faster then Bugs was comfortable with.
Reveal herself, and then see what he does.
He registers on Match dot com and has "visits" away that force DSS and DD to hang at relatives.
Add a little Whipped Cream to that cake.
Cuz he's got a big spoon.
LG
Our suggestions are the same...just a different time line.
I totally agree that Bugs needs to close that door when he crosses her comfort-boundry.
BUT! I think he needed more time to see that it could be different/better with Bugs. I think she needed to deposit more units in the lovebank. I think he needed to remember how much he loved her. And to let all those thoughts along with the comparisons to HO to perculate in his brain.
He would have come to the conclusion that maybe this could work.
Then it wouldn't be so tough to pull him the rest of the way.
She hadn't really had the time or opportunity to convey some pretty important pieces....that he could be forgiven...that the family would REJOICE....that his kids would be happier.....that he would not always be the bad guy who screwed up....
He needs to get comfortable with those things. He's not -- YET, but he could be....
One of my main concerns is what this was starting to do to YOU, Bugsy..
Like me, you are sooo in love with Drac still and like my Husband, Drac is such a CHARMER..almost a CASANOVA...
And it SEEMS like you were becoming almost ADDICTED to him yourself...waiting for his call, wondering about what he was doing...
And then with him REJECTING all of your WONDERFUL EFFORTS, I was AFRAID for you and the relationship...the posssible loss of love for him..which PLAN B protects you from...
I just so remembered the UTTER PAIN again of wanting it soooo much and finding that he just wasn't getting it...although my H, like yours, remained so ATTRACTED to me in many ways...
I went through periods like yours with him..when I wasn't posting on MBers..thinking that he would FINALLY get it...if I did the PLAN A type of stuff..
And once he GOT it, it really wasn't all that COMPLICATED to HIM..he didn't want to LOSE me...
The DARKNESS is what did it..although I FOUGHT doing it..that's why I'm such a FAN now...
I guess I keep saying the same stuff over and over again...
I just WORRY about you...
Mimi
I was so pleased when Bugs followed in your footsteps to the letter - including selling the house and moving. That move was what woke your husband up.
Here's the difference. Drac didn't and hasn't and won't wake up. He is different than your Formerly wayward husband. Drac is not a renter or a buyer. He's a freeloader. Very very different. Women are disposable to him. He will give up what he loves before he will acknowledge the emptiness that he feels as a renter.
Your husband could not give up what he loves. Be grateful. But recognize. Drac is different than your hubby.
I agree, Kayla.
Thanks for adding and sharing your perspective!!!
It's hard not to WANT IT for EVERYONE!!
I know Mimi - we can want it, but Drac is at large and in charge of this relationship working out. Not Bugs.
Bugs can only change what's within her realm of influence to change - and Drac moved himself outside of that realm a long time ago.
The only indication that Drac would wake up is when she had a friend at Ladybugs ballgame. But the minute he found out, no - she still wants Drac, Drac's looking at match websites...
I have a feeling Bugs is going to be like Believer - finding that fulfilling relationship outside of the pain of the life Drac has chosen. And then he'll wake up. But Bugs love bank account will have drained the final dregs, and closed long before Drac is ready to become a renter or a buyer.
Agree with you again, Kayla...
Is why I was thinking DARKNESS is the BEST OPTION if she wants to RECOVER...cause of the withdrawals from HER love bank ...
A few days or weeks ago I was even suggesting for her to venture out..
I can't say... for sure... but I think even I would be pursuing other relationships if my H was like Drac...
ME or NOTHING is where I think I REALLY was before he came back...
But HE KNOWS that I've ALWAYS been GOOD (or BAD) about being able to CUT PEOPLE OUT of MY LIFE FOREVER once I make that FINAL DECISION...
Hi Bugs,
Waiting to hear your thoughts on the interesting input from posters in the last few pages.
I think you have done a good job of showing Drac that a reconciliation is possible...and he now needs to want it just as much as you to give it a chance....
so, yeah....I also think the ball is in his court... that you are best to continue on with your life under the protection of Plan B... and avoid being hit by the BS fog! :RollieEyes:
Good morning!
I am taking advantage of waking at my 'usual' time, but without the pressure of a workday morning routine to finally post!
Let's see,,what has been happening? First, I haven't given Drac the letter. It is one that I want to deliver in person or snail mail. Not email. Like a typical Plan B letter, I want it to be written on paper that he can hold and read more than once if he chooses.
Thursday night I was feeling like I was starting to come down with a cold, so I went to bed very early to get some rest. It actually worked!
Felt great when I woke up Friday, but by noon, I was on the down hill slide. Unfortunately, I had budget conference call for the afternoon. DSS needed to catch the bus for football on Saturday at 7 am. That is 3 minutes from Drac's house,,,, 25 minutes from my house, I emailed Drac and asked if it would be better for DSS to stay there Fri night so that he could sleep in,,,IF Drac could take him to catch the bus. This was the first 'communication' other than one or two necessary words in the last week.
Mr Chatty CakeEater replied immediately. Told me how he'd been sooo busy this week. He had planned to email me earlier that DD was possibly getting a cold. He was feeling bad,,,,been sick,,,worse at night w/chills/vomiting,,,,,and that YES that was a good idea for DSS. He would take him to the bus Sat. morning. He even threw in some things about Ladybug not wanting to clean her room and some other stuff. He'd told Ladybug he & I would talk about it.
I replied that if he was sick, I could take DSS if he needed/wanted.
His reply came sometime later, starting with an apology for it taking so long to reply because he'd been in a meeting. He said he thought it best for him to take DSS. He then went into telling me he was meeting a friend (who I know) at a base ball game (if he felt up to it), told me all about the friend having been in poor healthy, and it's the first time they'd had a chance to get together in a long time. He specifically asked if I was going to DSS's game.
I started my conference call right when his email came in, so it was 4 hours later (YES< a 4 hour call without even a bathroom break!) before I replied that we had a set plan, and yes Ladybug and I would be at the game.
Sat. morning the phone rings as Ladybug and I are on our way to the game, but running a bit late. It's Drac letting me know that there aren't enough bleachers and that if I hadn't left yet to bring a chair. I said thanks and said we'd be a bit late.
A few minutes later TM from Drac that the start of the game was 30 minutes later than we'd thought.
Ladybug and I arrived. Spotted Drac sitting on the bleachers at the end of a row. Ladybug went to him. I stood back at the back edge of the bleachers with my chair. Game hadn't started yet. Drac gets up, walks back to me to say hello.
He explains what's going on. Turns out it was a 'tournament' of sorts. Multiple teams playing against each other round robin for a quarter. Most wins total wins the "Jamboree".
He then asks to setup my chair for me. Takes it and sets it right next to his spot on the bleachers. We watch the first game, cheering them on to a win. During which, Drac often leans down to me to make comments about the game/players/people around.
We then have to move to a different field for round 2. He makes a point to carry and setup my chair. I take a break at the ladies room while Drac & Ladybug move. I arrive at the new field where Ladybug is in my chair & Drac is sitting on the grass next to her. I stand behind, as I can actually see better. Drac then comes and stands right by me. Conversation ensues about all kind of subjects, many times he leans in very close to speak quietly so Ladybug isn't listening in.
Long story short, this goes on all morning and includes a few opportunities to touch and share some laughs. Games are over (DSS's team WINS the whole thing!) and we head to the parking lot. Drac says he'll 'walk us to the car'. We were parked further, so I stopped so he could say goodbye to Ladybug and then breakoff to his car. I stood back while they said their goodbyes. He asked my plan (was I picking up DSS at the school, could I give his friend a ride), and then told me his plan for the rest of the day (working at work event to help out), including details about what's been going on with the event, etc. I confirmed we'd get DSS & his friend and reached in my purse to get my keys out. As I look up after getting my keys, he is drawing near with arms open to Hug me.?!?
So, nice hug. The First Hug in over a year. The first time he's initiated any physical contact with me whatsoever in over a year.
What surprised me most? Not the hug, but the fact that I didn't
Ladybug and I headed to the car. She turns to me and says, "This reminds me of old times. Like when you guys were together." I didn't really comment to her about it and she didn't carry it any further.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,we went on with our day. We had a birthday party for a friend of mine. He was having his 39th 30th birthday party. Yes, for those of you who may be match challenged, he turned 69. Long story short, he's what is best described as an old hippie who loves to have a party. Lots of friends, food & music. The kids had a GREAT time, even though they were almost the only kids there. Neither of them wanted to leave.
Now there's been all of this to describe what HAS happened. I know you all are wanting to know what my plan is for what happens next.
First, let me be totally honest. My head/heart are not over the moon about getting a hug from Drac.
Was I shocked? Yes.
Do I think it has anything to do with my quasi-Plan A treatment of him all day? Yes.
Do I think it has something to do with the Total Goddess Look I had going on? Yes.
Do I think it means he's thinking about coming back? Nope
Do I think I made Deposits in his love bank? Absolutely
Do I think it is as Lexxxy suggested, that I've given him things to compare to the HoNoMo that are in my favor? Yes
Do I think he will cake eat if he can? Absolutely
Do I think he's more of a freeloader? probably
Do I think that if I give an ultimatim now it will be rejected? Positively
Do I think the way I wrote my letter is an ultimatim? No, I think it's more as LG describes. Drac might not take it that way, but that's up to Drac.
Do I think more deposits are necessary before the letter? yes
Do I have concerns that the attempt to deposit in his bank is depleting his account with me? Yes. But let's be honest here, little things are also making deposits back (I know the danger of giving TOO much credit to him on minor deposits)
Is his account with me in danger of running out? Sure it is.
Did Steve give me a timeline for being open or doing Plan A actions? No, it's totally my call on that based on what I know MY limits are for MY well being
Have I thought about checking in with Steve? yes, but I am not able to do so right now If things seem to 'require' it, I hope to be able to afford it in a couple of weeks
I know everyone is concerned first and foremost with MY well being. I wouldn't continue to post here if I thought otherwise.
I think for me, right this minute, it is a day by day situation for me going forward. I don't know what will or won't make a difference with Drac in the long run. Will he see that he wants me AFTER I've totally moved on? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
For now, unless I get into being totally absorbed by him & his actions (or lack of), I'm good with taking a while longer to see about making some deposits in his bank before giving him the letter. The letter will be delivered. It's only a matter of time.
I'm not reading anything into his actions today. I'm planning on getting my kids up. Going to church. Seeing my mom. Going furniture shopping. Making a nice dinner. Having a great week.
Bug's love life will work itself out. I don't have the inclination to worry about it right now.
I am hoping to stay in this emotional place for a long while.
Do I worry sometimes that I've become a total whack-job when it comes to Drac? Sure - but only when I think too hard. I don't have the time or energy to think too hard about it today!
For now, unless I get into being totally absorbed by him & his actions (or lack of), I'm good with taking a while longer to see about making some deposits in his bank before giving him the letter. The letter will be delivered. It's only a matter of time.
I'm not reading anything into his actions today. I'm planning on getting my kids up. Going to church. Seeing my mom. Going furniture shopping. Making a nice dinner. Having a great week.
Bug's love life will work itself out. I don't have the inclination to worry about it right now.
I am hoping to stay in this emotional place for a long while.
Do I worry sometimes that I've become a total whack-job when it comes to Drac? Sure - but only when I think too hard. I don't have the time or energy to think too hard about it today!
SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PLAN TO ME!!
Keep your BARRIERS up/ARMOR TIGHT, though...like you say above..work on not getting "ABSORBED". It did seem a few days or weeks ago that he had you CHARMED!! Keep your THINKING CAP ON!!
to you Bugs. This has to be agonizing at times. I agree, stay Dark, although I think that when contact happens as it just did, Plan A is in order. I hope that little encounter leaves him wanting more contact. And I do agree - he is the ultimate cake-eater, so tread lightly.
Don't know what else to say other than I think you are handling this with the utmost grace. You are my roll model......
We are all cheering for you Bugs. Like most of us, you've been through h3ll and deserve something good to come your way.
Hi Bugs,
Ditto....to what Mimi and CL said.
I am glad that you KNOW that Drac can turn on the CHARM.... and that you intend to stay alert and check and see if 'intent and actions' are consistent with his 'words'...
...one of many here cheering you on!
The kids and I had a good day. Church, lunch, then home to relax. Ladybug is still fighting that cold, so we skipped furniture shopping. DSS mowed the grass. Then before we knew it, the time had come to take DSS back to Drac's.
I'd made a big pot of homemade chicken soup and we did't even put a dent in it. Ladybug suggested that we take some to Drac, so I said ok.
I stayed in the car as usual. I made a quick call to ck on a friend when I notice out of the corner of my eye that Drac is walking up to the car.
He has DSS's school pictures. He explained how he didn't get what he'd ordered, but he was getting the entire disk of pics so we can print what we want to from it.
He also had 2 shirts in his hand. I had asked him at the game where I could buy booster shirts for DSS's school. He bought one for Ladybug and one for me.
He was wearing one. He even commented on the one that he picked for me,,,"it was the last one like it, and I thought they were really cool" (tie-dyed, and yes it is pretty cool).
I asked if the tags were still on ours so I'd know what I owed him. He replied, "you don't owe me anything". I was shocked, but simply said, "thanks". I noticed the size sticker still on his shirt, so I reached out and touched his chest to get it off.
I could tell he, too, was fighting a cold & mentioned it. He said yes, it was hanging on. Ladybug said, "well that chicken soup should help." He replied, "yes, I think it will. Thanks"
He gave Ladybugs her hugs & kisses. I was still sitting in the car, so he reached out & tapped the side mirror saying, "You have a good night".
So, another friendly co-parent exchange is how I'm going to view it. Not going over the moon or being charmed off my feet by the fact that he went out of his way to buy something I had so casually mentioned. I will acknowledge that it is certainly a change.
So, we are home. Ladybug has a friend over for about 30 minutes, then it's time to get ready for another week.
Oh,,,,,,,I had a voice mail from a guy I met a few weeks ago. He lives in Chicago. He's a friend of a friend of mine. Our 2 friends have a 'thing' for one another, so we spent a lot of time talking one night. Nice guy. No sparks for me, but he's really nice. He left a vm saying he'd heard I was going to be in town in a few weeks, and his dinner invitation still stands.
So,,,,Hey 2 guys possibly interested?
I don't know what to think about that.
So, I'm not going to think about it much. I'll just smile & enjoy the ego boost!
I mean how could a GOOD MEAL and NICE CONVERSATION hurt anybody?
Just wondering...
It's not like you're married or ANYTHING...
T/J
Mimi, would you check in on VL22, her WH is trying to negotiate her out of planB. Thanks
Hi Bugs!
Hi Jean! Hope VL got the help she needed,,,think I'll ck that thread after this.
Mimi,
I think perhaps there's something missing from your first post? Sorry, my mental telepathy powers are not working today! :crosseyedcrazy:
I have an idea of what you were thinking from your second post, but want to be sure.
Actually, the FIRST POST and the SECOND POST were unrelated although I used the SAME ICON...
FIRST POST...I was SMILING...about what I had read...
SECOND POST...I thought about it for awhile and came up with..Why not have a GREAT DINNER and CONVERSATION...especially in CHICAGO!!
Go Bugsy!
Your strategy seems well thought out to me.
Thanks SD.
I don't know how well thought out it really is, but I do know that giving less thought it it overall has me feeling pretty darn good.
He emailed first thing today about daycare payment he forgot to give them last week and asking about signing Ladybug up for dance. We had a couple of exchanges about those topics, all cordial.
He later sent me an email with a video/song. Something rather 'patriotic', nothing really personal, but he did send it only to me and it wasn't forwarded. I told my friend, he cut and pasted into a new email so I couldn't see where he got it from and he addressed it only to me so that no one else would know he sent me anything nice or friendly! ha!
Whatever.
I am suffering from a disappointment at work, so most everything else isn't on the top of my list today. I am losing an account, but I had no control over the way it went down. A different rep worked with my account's corporate office and they chose a different firm. Now I'm the one having to show a substantial loss of business! GRR! I hate it when that happens.
I think I'll go get Ladybug early and we'll go get a manicure/pedicure. That will make us BOTH feel better.
I think I'll go get Ladybug early and we'll go get a manicure/pedicure. That will make us BOTH feel better.
THAT'S SO CUTE!! Be thankful you had at least ONE little girl!
Today is my Baby Boy's Birthday..he's 22!
Wow, how time flies!
Hug her and enjoy her..what a BLESSING!!
I think I'll go get Ladybug early and we'll go get a manicure/pedicure. That will make us BOTH feel better.
Most excellent. I'm trying to figure out how I can work in a massage today.
I don't really know whether it's a great strategy or not, Bugs, but it makes sense to me. You understand and accept the risks. You're doing what seems like the next right thing to do.
I say go for it.
Oh Bugs, I used to be in corporate sales so I feel for you. I've had many a verbal beating over something like that. Like you really didn't try your best. UGH.
You are doing great, so keep on going....
Late yesterday I got a call the my nephew's baby daughter had an accident resulting in a fractured skull. She was flown to the nearest Children's Hospital.
I was a wreck. She's not even a month old yet. We lost her uncle just a year and a half ago. Her parents are getting married in 3 weeks. With my parents recent health problems, it just seemed overwhelming.
Praise God she seems to be ok. No swelling or damage that they can detect. They are doing some further tests today, as during the x-rays they found she has too much fluid in her cerebellum (sp?). This was actually pre-existing the accident.
We are looking at the whole thing as "Everything happens for a reason", as had it not been for the accident, they would not have found this extra fluid. It may or may not be something that needs attention. We hope to know something later today.
I did email Drac as a head's up in case I needed to go there. It's about 4 hours away. I simply said my nephew in the email. He responded asking if it was specifically 'his name'. I replied that it was his daughter, not him. Nothing back from Drac. No note or comment of concern. So much for the care/concern that you'd even give a co-worker or a stranger for that matter.
I'll be honest. I expected more. So, it was a good/timely reminder about expectations & not to have any!
So, please keep Lila in your prayers.
Aww Bugsy.. it's always so sad when that sort of thing happens to a child.. particularly as young as this one. I'll be keeping you and your family in my prayers.
FWIW I'm with Guy up there and I think you're positioning yourself very well in all of this, and I'm seeing some strength in those boundaries again. Do good for Bugsy and Ladybugs.. everything else will fall into place as it is meant to.
Saying a little serenity prayer for you and the workstuffs too.
Thinking of you and yours, Bugs.
Fox
Ouch Bugs, that's a tough one. It devastates me when I here of little one's going through stuff like this. Hopefully she'll be OK and will never remember it.
Many prayers
Sorry to hear about the baby....but its really interesting the way that incidents happen to your family only to uncover something more serious. God's watching over your family!
Don't read ANYTHING into Drac's response. Your email may have come at an odd time....I suspect you will get an offer of more help later.
You've got a good head on your shoulders! You're handling all of this with much grace.
I say you GO for dinner in chicago. When I was newly single I had to almost force myself to get out there. Just look at it as new experiences, and remember you are in total control of what happens. Make new friends.
I'll be honest. I expected more. So, it was a good/timely reminder about expectations & not to have any!
I'm with Lexxy--don't read anything into this.
Your nephew must be terrified. Hoping for a smooth recovery.
I am sorry about the baby. Life-threatening incidents can sure help put 'things' in perspective. The parents must be a wreck! So sorry.
I agree with others. Don't jump to conclusions about Drac until you hear back.
Thank you all so much for the thoughts & prayers. Lila is doing ok from the fracture,,,Very well in fact.
However, after the MRI late yesterday we have been told that she does in fact have too much fluid on her brain. They are going to have to operate. I don't have all of the details yet, but it's not so good right now.
Once the pressure is releaved, it remains to be seen if 1. her brain has been damaged, 2. If her brain will continue to grow (it may not).
Her parents are so young, our hearts are just breaking for them and for us. Our family has been through so much in the last year and a half. Yet, we are trusting God to handle this. It really is in His hands.
Drac emailed first thing yesterday asking for an update & for me to keep him posted. I had a horrible day at work and didn't get a chance to email him, and I hadn't gotten much in the way of any update until after work.
After he talked to Ladybug for their evening call, he asked to talk to me. He asked for an update, but I told him I'd need to call him back later. I didn't want Ladybug to overhear anything, as I haven't told her any of this and don't plan to until we know more about where things stand.
He asked if I had a minute to talk. I said yes. He told me about one of his best friend's niece's. She just graduated HS in the spring & apparently developed a meth problem. He's been reaching out to her and is the only one she is speaking to.
He wanted me to know that he'd asked her to come up to his house for the weekend so he could try to talk to her & come up with a plan to help her. He first went into that he'd asked her for this weekend, because he does not have the kids,,,,,,,and went on to say things about how he wanted me to know he'd never put them in any danger, etc. I said, "of course you wouldn't. That's not even a thought I'd have in this situation"
He continued, "Well, you never know what you might hear. I don't want you thinking any crazy thoughts. You might hear I have some 18 year old girl staying here and I don't want you to get the wrong idea"
So, I asked more about the situation, which he shared. I told him how glad I was that he was helping out. Gave some admiration. We ended with that I'd call him later.
I got busy after Ladybug went to bed, but finally called his house. He didn't answer. He called me a while later saying "I thought you were going to call"
I told him I'd called the house. He told me on some Tues. nights he goes down the street to a bar to listen to the band after DSS goes to bed. He said they start at 9 and they still had another hour to go, but he was headed home.
So, I filled him in about Lila. He was supportive & reassuring. Not overly so, but in a 'friendly' way. It was about a 15 minute conversation, ending with him telling me to try to get some rest. I emailed him later saying Thanks for the support.
So,,,,,,,today I'm outta here in a bit to the airport, flying to Baltimore. Hope to get some work done on the plane as I am way behind on so much stuff!
I am a bit excited, as this is my first 'East Coast' trip ever. Am hoping to have a little time to do some looking around.
Bugsy:
Sorry to hear about your niece. I hope it works out.
Your interactions with Drac went well.
I don't think a person with addictions problems should be "trying to help" someone with a meth problem. Once she realizes that Drac ain't giving her cash, she will be gone. He won't see that, but who knows.
And about this:
So,,,,,,,today I'm outta here in a bit to the airport, flying to Baltimore. Hope to get some work done on the plane as I am way behind on so much stuff!
I am a bit excited, as this is my first 'East Coast' trip ever. Am hoping to have a little time to do some looking around.
You should have said something earlier! Silent is about 35 minutes from Downtown B-more. She could have met you for a drink in Fells Point. Don't know if you ever watched the program "Homicide" but she could have cruised you through some of the local bars that that filmed the program in.
Even if your stuck in the wasteland between downtown B-more and Wash DC, (where BWI Airport is...;) Still, with a rental car, MUCH to be seen, within about a hours drive. And the sun goes down at 7:30, so you still have some daylight left.
If you have never been to DC, then I recommend a driving tour one of the nights, the monuments and various building are amazing at night.
LG
There is a great steamed crab place on Fort Street called LP Steamers. It's a dive, but excellent food! It's near the Inner Harbor, you can see the big Domino's Sugar sign. It's in a residential part of town, so even though it looks kinda run down it's safe, people even leave things out overnight, lol.
HTH
Oh, and I forgot, I'm praying for your nephew's daughter...
I keep up with all of you even though I rarely post anymore...
If you can't get out of the immediate Baltimore area try to see the National Aquarium. Probably the best in the world.
It would be cool if you and SL could get together. She just mentioned that on her thread yesterday.
I agree about the Aquarium, we just went Labor Day weekend and had a blast!!! Great frog exhibit, now my 3 year old asks that we have "Spaghetti and meatballs with tomato frogs" instad of tomato sauce. Yes, there are such a thing.
Plus, fwiw, I think you could do much better than Mr Match.com drac. IMVHO.
Bugs, I think your interactions with Drac have been going pretty well.
There was the time you showed him your cards and where you wanted things to go, and he balked. I think you would agree that it was probably premature--that you might have jumped the gun a bit. He wasn't ready. (He may never be, of course.)
Maybe you should try to pretend that interaction didn't happen. Don't draw any conclusions from it. Throw it out as a flawed data point.
It seems like that's basically what you're doing.
Have a great trip. I agree that the aquarium in Baltimore is pretty cool. Also that it would be great if you could meet up with SL.
He continued, "Well, you never know what you might hear. I don't want you thinking any crazy thoughts. You might hear I have some 18 year old girl staying here and I don't want you to get the wrong idea"
OK, bells and alarms went off when I read this...this is one of moments when, during this time when you are both holding your cards very close to you, he just showed you his hand...but you still don't know what the game is...
If it were me, and I usually think of these much later...but it's OK to refer back to a statement...I would have said something like...
"We are divorced, and you are allowed to see or date anyone you want. Thanks for letting me know about this situation so I didn't worry about the kid's safety. But I wonder if you are being considerate about my feelings because you know I still care, and I would be hurt if you got involved with another woman."
So in this tennis game you both are playing, there are many times he is sending the ball over and you are not returning it...and that's OK...but he left himself open to have it volleyed back. I wonder what he would say?
Bugs,
I will also be praying for your neice. Hopefully they will be able to remove the fluid and no damage has been done.
As for Drac. I think it is great that he is willing to help someone, It maybe a sign that he is thinking about someone other than himself. The fear I have is even if he has no intentions of doing anything but talking to her, why take the risk. A young girl with a meth problem and a guy that has no problem cheating on his wife equals too much temptation. There are many other agencys that can help her without sending her off to jail.
Hey, Bugsy!
If you are in town, lemme know! Maybe we could meet up or something, depending on how long you are here. I work in B-more, and have the weekend free, including Friday night. I can also get a sitter if you wanna just meet for drinks after work. Hope to hear from you.
SL
I WANNA COME, TOO!!!! B-more is like on another planet!
Ew!! That would be incest!
Gross, Man!
Charlotte
OH!! BF's niece. Thought they were related.
Yeah, but still, BF...lots of times it feels like family so I stand by the last post.
Charlotte
Silent:
B-MORE ROX...
Shouldn't that be:
B-MORE ROX, HON!
LG
Ah, yes, considering one of my closest friends is from Dundalk-hon, I'm surprised I din 'member at.
Hey all!
First I am sorry I didn't think to ask for input and SL's contact info before today! This trip came up rather last minute and it's a quick fly in and fly out. I'm only here for the one night and unfortunately, I am stuck in my room working on my budget that was due an hour ago!!
We are thinking of trying to go the RL Steamers as suggested. I'm only 15 minutes from there right now,,,staying not far from the airport (close to my customer locations).
I promise to check in here first before I venture out to new places in the future!
I feel pretty stupid for not thinking about this in advance!!
SHM -
OK, bells and alarms went off when I read this...this is one of moments when, during this time when you are both holding your cards very close to you, he just showed you his hand...but you still don't know what the game is...
yes, those bells and alarms went off for me, too, but due to my recent overstepping too soon, I shut off the alarms. I thought it was a show of his hand to tell me that,,,but I just didn't want to make too much of it.
I don't know that HE realizes what he is doing by sharing this type of information. Does he even acknowledge that he is showing concern for me & my feelings? I think he's put it in the catagory of not getting the EX upset and thinking the wrong thing??
I considered sending the volly back, but instead of being direct I chose the 'friendly' route. He emailed me a 'political' email again this morning, so I started an exchange with him. I asked about his political discussions with DSS, who has been talking more about politics since his government class this summer.
We had a brief exchange, and now back to silence from him.
I had considered letting him know that I think it's great that he's willing to help out his BF's niece. For those of you with 'concerns', this would be the same as if it were his blood relative. He's been like an uncle to her since she was a baby.
LG, i can appreciate your concern over someone with addition problems helping someone in this sitch - but I am of the opinion that there isn't anyone better to help than someone who has walked that path (or a similar one). My BIL is a recovered alcoholic and has helped both of my nephews, and his own daughter recover from different additions. I don't want to start a debate, but wanted to acknowledge your concern and let you know that I'd thought about it.
I have to get back to my budget work for now.
I'll let you know tomorrow if I have time to find out how much B-more Rox!!!
That's okay Bugsy,
I went ahead and ventured out to Canton with some friends. Spent a couple of beers at Looney's Pub and then headed across the square to Vicarro's for some gellato and Napoleon (chocolate vanilla--yyyyyummmm). Good thing I went for that walk this morning, eh.
So sorry you couldn't join me, missy. Maybe some day, I'll get a chance to meet all my MB favs.
For those of you with 'concerns', this would be the same as if it were his blood relative. He's been like an uncle to her since she was a baby.
Sorry, I am not that close with the extended family of my friends. If he is like an uncle than my concern has dropped.
Morning.
Well, SL, glad you had a nice evening! We went down to the inner harbor later in the evening and it was really nice. Would have been better if I'd planned in advance (and not had co-worker with me)
Mom called last night. Lila is having her surgery today at 9 a.m. to put in the shunt to relieve the pressure in her brain. I hope to hear something by noon about how it goes.
I called Drac after we got back to the hotel to tell him about Lila. We ended up talking for over 30 minutes. Everything from the baby, to Ladybug, to DSS, to the bar he goes to on Tues. It was rather like old times.
So, today up and at em to another customer meeting and then straight to the airport.
Keep those thoughts & prayers coming for our baby girl! I'll try to post when I get an update.
Hoping Baby Lila did ok in surgery....
Great news!! Baby Lila is going very well!
Surgery went well yesterday. One shunt was inserted and the pressue is already starting to be relieved. The Best news is that despite the xrays showing that her brain was possibly underdeveloped, that is not the case. It was the compression caused by the fluid that made it appear that way.
So she is flat on her back for 24 hourss (now only 5 1/2 to go). They slowly raise her head over the next 24. Then, hopefully, by Sunday they may be coming home!!
It is a gradual draining of the fluid so that her brain does not bleed. Then, it's a lifetime of monitoring. In 2-3 months, we will know better the long term damage (if any), and then have an idea of what the future will hold. We have already claimed the promise of a full healing for her!!
God has certainly been watching over her and our family through all of this. Thanks to you all for your thoughts and prayers!!
Ladybug started dance class again last night. Drac took care of getting her new dance shoes and bag for class. They went to 'visit' the boxer puppy they are getting in a few weeks. That should be very interesting,,,,Drac having to be home for puppy care & training? DD is, of course, over the moon with the thought of a new puppy.
After talking to the kids last night I asked to talk to Drac, to coordinate DSS's football this weekend. Ended up talking for another 30 minutes or so, again just about a variety of subjects. I used the opportunity to give admiration, etc. He seems to be getting more open and comfortable every time. I brought it to a close this time, which seemed to surprise him a bit. He said, 'ok, talk to you soon. Well, definately no later than Saturday' My standard ending these past couple of nights has been 'sweet dreams'.
I'm outta here early today for work. Being out of town puts me so far behind and I have conference calls all day on top of it. Ladybug is spending the night with a friend, so maybe I can catch up later tonight.
Fantastic news about Lila!
I'll continue to pray that all future reports are well with her also. It's actually pretty amazing the number of medical stories I've been hearing about lately where a strange problem pops up and scares the family, only to find that it's relatively easily treatable, and uncovers a 'hidden' problem that could have potentially been life threatening if left undiscovered..
Is it odd or is it God as Queenie is fond of saying..
I firmly believe it's the latter.
Just a reminder that God is always at work, even on our waywards, softly speaking to them always to be obedient and serve His will.
I feel so blessed that I know so many here who have chosen to listen to His voice.
Been a rough couple weeks for me.. still not really emotionally ready to add to my post, but wanted to thank you for yet another tick on the 'rejoice' side of my prayer sheet.
J
My godfather was sick with a cold last week.
They took a chest CT scan and found pnumonia. So he got his dose of anti-biotics, and is recovering rapidly.
Then he gets the call that there is something "else" they have found on his scan. Instructions are to get into his physician right away.
As he has been a lifelong smoker, I suspect they have found lung cancer.
But again -- this would never have been discovered if he didn't get an ordinary cold....which really turns out to be a blessing.
Lexxxy,
Remember my mom was in that same boat of having broken her breast bone a couple of months ago & they found 'something else'. Also a lifelong smoker, we were very worried. Turns out it is not cancer! I'll be praying the same result for your godfather!!!
Best news I have today is that little Miss Lila came home yesterday!! Praise God! What a blessing and miracle He has done in our sitch!! There's lots to do down the road, but it all is looking very, very good for her.
It was particularly special because yesterday was my sister's birthday!! What a gift to have her granddaughter come home on that day.
We had a good weekend here, too. Saturday was DSS football. Starting with phone call from Drac that he was following the bus, and they were lost!! ha! Turns out the school listed on the website had the wrong address. I went to the wrong school, too. After 3 phone calls, we all finally arrived at the game.
Usual standing close, chatting, same as last week. I wore the shirt he bought for me, and he did comment on it. DSS's team won, and he even played a few downs this time. They had to stay until 1/2 time of the next game, so we all stayed, including Drac. The boys talked coach into stopping to get something to eat on the way back, so Ladybug and I were stopping to eat as well before picking him up from the bus. We said goodbye to Drac, no hug for Bugs this time around.
We were pulling into the restaurant when Drac called - he turned the wrong direction out of the school & was asking directions (which I'd already given him before we left). So, after getting him turned around, I mentioned that we'd stopped if he wanted to join us. To my surprise, he did. Nothing extra special happened or was said, but it is the first time we've had a meal together in a long, long time.
He'd made a point to tell me that Friday night he fell asleep early & slept all night. Saturday, he told me his BF's niece wasn't coming up as she had other plans for her birthday weekend. Maybe she'll come in a couple of weeks, since he has the kids next weekend and as he isn't sure of her sitch, he doesn't want the kids around her until he's had a chance to check it out first.
Yesterday we went shopping and finally bought some new living room furniture! It's being delivered today. We went out to eat & had a great time. I sent Drac a TM that we'd be late. When we arrived, he was in the garage cleaning. We had the tunes blasting when we pulled in. I kept them going while the kids went inside. Ladybug had her mid-term report to show him.
I wasn't paying attention when he walked up to the car. He had my old letterman jacket in his hand. He put it in the back, saying he'd found it and another jacket in a box. He wasn't sure where the other one was, but he'd find it for me. I said thanks, but didn't really engage in conversation. They went back inside to get Ladybugs papers, she came out and that was it.
We relaxed at home & had a nice quiet evening. I think he's enjoying my company but has really put me into the 'friendly co-parent' bucket and intends to leave me there. We'll see. I'm doing ok with the sitch as it stands for now. He's getting some deposits in his bank even if he doesn't realize it. For me, there's no major withdrawls from my bank, so I'm good for now. I'm just trusting that I'll know what to do and when in regard to him,,,, if anything. It's really in God's hands.
Hoping this week is better than last week at work!
Hey Bugs,
I'm glad that Lila is doing well. That was a scary thing. I hate when children are sick or wounded.
Making deposits in Drac's love bank is good, but be careful not to let him make too many in yours. They will compound at a faster rate than yours in his, and I don't want to see you hurt again if he does a big withdrawl. He still isn't quite "getting it."
To ME, it's soo like he's getting the message that you are able to be his friend..that you are ACCEPTING a position as his friend... although he divorced you.
I don't think I could bear to do it...
As I read about your situation, he continually pisses ME off...
When is he going to say he's sorry..when is he going to evidence being sorry for breaking up his family..
It seems the likelihood of that happening is lowered the nicer that you are to him..
Maybe I'm missing something that I'm supposed to be getting...
But, of course, I've never had been in your situation...
MAYBE that's why I can't relate or understand...
Hi Bugs,
I think he's enjoying my company but has really put me into the 'friendly co-parent' bucket and intends to leave me there.
Just curious....would you be OK if this is ALL Drac is interested in? Since he's not 'committing' to anything....this leaves it open to him 'springing up' a date on you, and risk major WITHDRAWLS in your LoveB. :RollieEyes:
You all are on the right track, of that I have no doubt. Although I think that in Drac's case, it is necessary in his mind for us to first be 'friends' again, I realize that may be all there ever is to it for him.
As for me, perhaps I am hoping that he will finally withdraw enough from my lovebank for me to finally be done and over it all??
I'm not sure. Part of me thinks yes. Part of me thinks no.
Just when I think that is where we are, he does something to make me wonder. Like tonight. Earlier I had to email him about daycare costs for Ladybug. He made a big deal out of the fact that he was paying the FULL year in advance. I knew then that he had not taken into account the off days when she would need all day care OR the early out days that will also cost more. I didn't say anthing at the time. I was waiting for the opportunity to bring it up. This is what caused 'issues' with payment last year.
So tonight she had a note in her bag that an early out is coming up soon. I emailed and asked if he'd paid for those days in advance, too. He replied that he didn't know when they were. O replied back that I didn't either, unless they were on the schedule OR more likely, when they send a note home like today.
His response was "Let me know. There's a bank down the street I can rob.".
I didn't buy into his 'oh poor me thing', but took it as a joke and responded with, "Sorry, I already have that one staked out for myself. I hear they have great safety deposit boxes. I am hoping for cash AND diamonds!"
He didn't respond.
Then, he just sent me a couple of text messages,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm not sure yet where it's going, but it's a bit flirty. I'm responding in between phone calls with Stalkerboy (who as it turns out is an incredibly nice guy who I seem to have a lot in common with).
I'll let you all know how BOTH communications turn out later!
Hey,,,,,,,,,,did I just type what I thought I did? do I have 2 guys on the 'line' at one time? Who woudda thunk that?? NOT ME??!!!
LMAO, that's funny...is that part of the Diva style or what? I was thinkin it was part of the process of moving on myself...
Just had to chime in on that one!
Definately Diva style! haha!
Turns out I had a really nice conversation with Stalkerboy - in fact, I think I'll change his name to just V. We have a dinner date Saturday night. I'm looking forward to it.
The texts with Drac didn't go too far. It's like I said last night, he goes just far enough to make me wonder what he's thinking.
I have to get to work early today, so I don't really have time to go into thinking too much about it. It is what it is at this point in time. We'll see what, if anything, it is in the future when it happens (or not)
Have a great day everyone!
Bugs -- dinner date with V sounds GREAT!!!
Way to go girl!
Go, Bugs!!!
Fox
Hey,,,,,,,,,,did I just type what I thought I did? do I have 2 guys on the 'line' at one time? Who woudda thunk that?? NOT ME??!!!
YEA for V!!
ahem....I believe it is 4 guys on the line....
V
Drac
MCD
ohio guy
am I counting wrong?
ahem....I believe it is 4 guys on the line....
V
Drac
MCD
ohio guy
am I counting wrong?
Daaang Bugsy!
You all are too funny!!
Honestly, I don't feel like I really have anyone 'on the line'. I am so completely 'dating challenged' it is not funny!
I will admit that you all are correct that MCD, V, and CHICAGO (not ohio) guy have expressed interest. I see that.
Drac, well, who knows about Drac. Certainly not me. I think it strikes him from time to time that he wants to reach out to me, but he's certainly not going to admit that it's more than a passing 'friendly' thought. He's not seeing the long term connection we have nor is he in any way interested in re-connection. He's continuing to justify to himself. He will likely do that for a very long time.
Mimi, I realize what you are saying. The fact of the matter is that it makes no difference whatsoever if I am nice to him or if I am mean to him. He's made it clear that no amount of interaction or lack thereof will change his "decision" on what he needs.
He may someday say he's sorry. I hope that he does. He may someday change his mind and want to reconnect. I won't live my life waiting and wondering about that. I am not saying that I don't care. I do. I'm not saying that for now, I'd want to reconcile. What I am saying is that it won't be that way forever.
I am also saying I'm working day by day not to think about it either way. No big 'plan' is in my mind right now, other than the live my own life plan.
I know I'm likely not doing a great job of explaining it, but I have a feeling that most of you get what I'm trying to say.
I'll give it a bit more thought later. For now, I'm off to finish dinner, help Ladybug with homework, shower, and then bedtime stories.
Then, I think I'd best find out what the attire is for the fund raiser dinner V is taking me to Sat. (BTW, I think my Mom is more excited about my date than I am!
)
Bugs,
Can you throw the ones you don't want over my way? I'll even consider one who really is a stalker.....
No big 'plan' is in my mind right now, other than the live my own life plan.
That's a
BIG PLAN! Don't cha think? Sounds GREAT to me...
I think my Mom is more excited about my date than I am!
I'm EXCITED about it for YOU,too!!
I'm excited too!
If you don't mind, I'll share some "dating advice".
First...date them all.
Treat as if you are just making a new friend. I mean that. Do not narrow down your field to just one. And do not settle into a new relationship with just one of them.
Chai,
I'd throw one your way if it felt like they were mine to throw! HA!
Mimi,
I guess that living my life IS a big plan - it just doesn't seem like such a big deal since it's been 'the' plan all along. Even during all of the other plans (A, B, and D), I hope that I've been able to keep
most of my sanity by keeping some amount of focus on myself.
Thanks for the dating advice Lexxxy. That's pretty much my intention. It's hard, as you said before to force myself to get out there and accept dates. There's still the part of my heart that belongs to Drac, so it's hard to get past the 'feeling' that by dating I'm somehow cheating.
I've pretty much been a one guy at a time kind of girl all of my life. I never dated several guys at one time in my entire life. Playing the field in that way is something new to me. I'm not sure I'm really ready for it but the time has come. Drac's not coming back and I need to start doing some new things to get past all of that. It's hard. Very hard.
I am a bit aggravated with Drac. The other night he didn't answer Ladybugs phone call on any of his phones and he didn't even try to call her back. This just one night after giving her trouble about calling 20 minutes late.
She's detaching from him again. Ever since he started on match.com, she's known/felt that she is not the priority in his life. It makes me so sad for her. Even at 7 it's obvious from what she says & does that she sees it. Heck, he was on line last night when she was over there. You'd think he'd have the decency to wait until she goes to bed!
DSS has a football game tonight, but I won't be able to make it. Ladybug has dance class. It's just as well for my sake. I don't want to see Drac. I feel like I'm building up to a big plan FU to him about making the kids a priority and that really isn't a good idea. Not that he doesn't deserve it, it just wouldn't do any good. Any time I try to tell him what Ladybug feels/says/thinks, he ends up confronting her about it in such a way that he never hears the same from her. He doesn't get that she is not going to be open & honest with him because she doesn't feel safe to do so with him.
Other than that, life is pretty good. I seem to have regained my work focus yesterday and am hoping to roll that into day 2 today!
I don't want to see Drac. I feel like I'm building up to a big plan FU to him about making the kids a priority and that really isn't a good idea. Not that he doesn't deserve it, it just wouldn't do any good.
(I know you know this, but) What's the instinctive, first-answer response for almost any situation that comes up in Plan B?
D A R K
I'm with you on the playing the field thing bugs.
I'm not that kind of person and I'm having trouble doing it. I just don't have it in me. I can not talk to more than one person at a time. It feels wrong to me. I'm talking to a girl now and I can't figure out where she stands or if she's even all that interested. I meet other women and even saw a girl on a Catholic website I'd love to send an email too, but I can't. I'm completely loyal to somebody I barely know. It has nothing to do with insecurity or emotional whatever. I just can't talk to anybody else until I figure out where this one's going.
Isn't this supposed to be fun and exciting? It sucks. I don't like dating.
Sorry for the vent, but I'm very frustrated with this whole dating thing and you're kind of in the same boat that I am.
Maybe once we get the hang of it, it won't be so bad
Isn't this supposed to be fun and exciting? It sucks. I don't like dating.
Honey I hear ya! Glad to know I'm not the only one that feels this way. I think part of the problem is that in some way, I really don't WANT to get the hang of it.?????
I know that V is a nice guy, but I also know it's not going to be anything long term with him. I just know it. But, I think it's good (as Lexxy pointed out) to make new friends, so that's how I'm taking it. Yet,,,,,,,,why am I only talking to him? Beats me. I'm not going to stress about it.
As Popeye says, "I yam what I yam" at least when it comes to this. I have made lots of changes since all of this started. Most of them I think are for the better. Yet, there are many things about me that do NOT need to be changed. I think my view of dating is one that I don't need to change(for now).
Thanks for the reminder SD. Yet, in so many ways these days my attitude is 'why bother' with anything when it comes to him? Most days I am ambivilant (sp?). I know I still have love for him, and yet I really don't want to care about him at all.
Dark or not, he still effects me.
He emailed this morning that parent/teacher conferences are x date and x date next month - "Do you want to try to attend these together this year?,,,,,
This is more about the 'friendly co-parenting' plan. He could have talked to me about it last night on the phone when the kids called, but he sent email instead. Keeping me in my role.
I know some of you may suggest that I give him my newest Plan B letter. I just don't see any point in it.
I don't think I want to work on trying to protect the love I still have for him. I really would like it to go away forever. What's the point of the letter if I'm not trying to keep the door cracked open a bit? And, I honestly do not see him ever giving us another chance so why continue to hurt myself by holding out false hope?
Like I said yesterday, I think I'm done with any 'plan' in regards to him, other than to limit my interactions with him for my own protection. I will retain a certain amount of darkness for my own well being.
I think I'm just going to reply that I do not think it is necessary for us to the teacher conferences together.
Dark or not, he still effects me.
OMG!!! I JUST was quoting that very scene to a friend yesterday!!
Thanks, Chris!
I'm working on it. Maybe I can get one of my friends to give me a good smack across the face,,,,,,,,,,,,
Here's a different take on dating (at least for teens):
Dating creates relationships built on insecurity. There is no commitment by either party to continue beyond the first date, and there may be others they would consider dating given the opportunity. They both know that.
The main purpose of dating is to try out as many partners as possible in the process of looking for the perfect one. Thus, by definition, breaking up is as common as dating itself. There are more pop songs written about breaking up than pairing up. Dating becomes a preparation for handling divorce, not a preparation for building a permanent marriage. We were designed for sexual involvement with one partner, but we get used to the idea of rejecting and being rejected in the search for the perfect relationship. The more dates you have, the more the boundaries become blurred. Rejection becomes a way of life, and saying "I love you'' becomes meaningless. It is no more than saying, "At this moment in time, I find you sexually attractive." We learn to break covenant at a whim; we learn to follow our emotions and desires. If it doesn't work out, we can simply break it off. It provides no training for having to work it out for the long haul. It is practice in divorce.
Dating builds insecurity into relationships. Imagine a marriage without scars of rejection to overcome, with a partner you can trust, because you have not been spoiled by earlier partners who have proved untrustworthy. Imagine a relationship without having other faces in your mind and the comparisons that ensue against the spouse that God has given you. Imagine having no pornographic images of Miss Universe with which to tarnish the beauty of the wife who is at your side.
Princess:
Isn't the article advocating FRIENDSHIP vs. "DATING" as suggested by LEXX?
Miss Meggy,
I have to tell you that when I first read this, I became even more depressed about the idea of dating!
At first,I felt like, WOW - this is the last thing I want to do. Then I wondered how in the world does one ever find the right person if you don't date??? The part about lines and boundaries being blurred switched my thought process over to Drac - - that's totally him these days. No boundaries. Just going from one person to the other using them/being used until one or the other (or both) is used up.
I did go and read the article in context, which helped me understand where this part fit in to the message as a whole. Thanks for posting the link.
As Lexxx suggested, I am at the point where the way to look at this is just finding new opportunities for friendship. My own personal 'challenges' of the whole idea of dating are something I'm just going to have to work through.
As BC said, I hope it will get easier.
Lord knows sitting around 'waiting' for Drac isn't the answer! I still have those moments of wanting him to WAKE UP and believe in an 'us' again. Slowly, VERY slowly, my fog is lifting to where what I see in him isn't what I want.
I wish all of the feeling for him was gone. I wish I could look at him and feel nothing. Please someone tell me that will come with time!!!
Tonight Ladybug has a slumber party that I'm taking her to. I am out with the girls tonight. Am shopping with Mom tomorrow and then going out with V. Sunday is church & yardwork. I know I'll be plenty busy, which is always good.
I am struggling with letting go of Drac thoughts today. DSS has another ballgame in the morning. I'm trying to decide if I can handle another Drac interaction. I know him well enough that he's pulled back again because his social life is busy right now - and it hurts. It makes me sad & angry at the same time.
Well - busy work day, so I'll try to put that aside for now.
I have to tell you that when I first read this, I became even more depressed about the idea of dating!
I'm so sorry Bugs, I really didn't mean to depress you. I had just recently read this article because we're raising our 16-yr. old nephew and I've been thinking about this subject.
As Lexxx suggested, I am at the point where the way to look at this is just finding new opportunities for friendship. My own personal 'challenges' of the whole idea of dating are something I'm just going to have to work through.
I think Lexxx is right on with her advice about dating a bunch of friends. Most people let their hair down with their friends. You find out more about "who they are" as opposed to someone putting on their best face for a "date". KWIM?
Don't give it a second thought, PM! I know you always have the best of intentions!
In fact, it was a good read for me in the context of my kids. DSS is 14 and ready (I think) to start giving more time/attention to girls. I am nervous about the coming years with a teenage boy! Especially in light of the rather very loose supervision Drac seems to be giving him over there. All I can do is provide the best example & guidance possible when I have time with him. Unfortunately, as time goes by, it is very likely that I will have less and less time with him. That's just another good reason that I pray for him every day. God is with him even when I am not.
Ladybugs,,,well she's been about the boys since day one! YIKES!!
IMO, you are EXEMPLIFYING the reason for PLAN B for those who want to RECOVER their marriages...
The more contact you have with the WAYWARD H or whatever DRAC is..the more withdrawals from your love bank...
I think that's what's happening...
I'm totally clueless about the DATING ISSUE...
BUT...
I THOUGHT(?) that dating IS about being FRIENDLY with different folks..gentleman callers, that is...I THINK(?) that's certainly what I would do..and I would try to put my BEST FACE on for ANY GUY..even just being FRIENDLY..but you know me...I like the opportunity to be GIRLY GIRLY..what's the matter with a girl getting some guy attention...time to go put my makeup on for today....
Yes, Mimi, I agree that interaction with Drac does lower the love bank. As I mentioned, I'm not sure if I care about that one way or another these days.
Right now, yes, I would like to have the chance to reconcile with him. At the same time, however, I am ready to move on and feel some resentment to the fact that I still have love for him which continues to hold me back from moving on.
As I said before, I have always been the type of person who never dated multiple people at the same time. If I was interested enough to date someone, I gave that my full attention. Having continued feelings for Drac has kept me from stepping out into the dating world, as it just doesn't seem right/fair to the other person for me to be seeing them, while still emotionally tied to Drac.
So Saturday, for the first time in my life, I stepped outside of that comfort zone and went on a date with V. I had a nice time. It was a casual, low pressure situation. It was a fund raiser for Ducks Unlimited. Silent auction, dinner, and then live auction. His Dad is also a member - he was in attendance with V's son, too. So, I did meet them and some of V's friends. They were all very nice.
V called me on Friday several times, but we didn't get to talk until later than evening. He wanted to tell me that he'd felt like he was keeping a secret from me and he didn't want to keep any secrets, but it was a difficult subject to bring up. Long story short,,,,,,,his Ex has the same first name as I have! ha! It's not an extremely common name, so it's really rather funny. It made for interesting introductions to his friends Sat. night. No one said a word, but I could see a little tick in their eyes.
So, it all went well and we will be seeing each other again in the not too distant future. His son told him to let me know that he is playing a football game Thursday night in my town if I would like to come. I thought that was very sweet.
I'm not over the moon and looking to make this into a 'relationship' right away. It will be what it will be or not. For now, it's nice to know I have someone who is interested in spending time with me.
Gotta run - - am already behind at work.
Morning!
I am working from home today. Not feeling 100% as I am battling a kidney infection (Yuck).
Yesterday was kind of cruddy. Conference call with my boss and the VP of my dept. The VP is very confrontational and always seems to go out of his way to make you feel stupid. Whatever answers you have for him are never good enough. I guess I didn't do a very good job of masking my frustration, as I got a call from my boss at 5:15 last night giving me a 'coaching' session on how I should have been better prepared and that I shouldn't sound so short - - it made me sound like I don't care.
I am very frustrated with the whole thing. I am hoping for a better day today.
I was at my office yesterday and the phone rang with an intercompany ring - I went to answer and saw Drac's name on the display but before I could pick up, he hung up. He didn't call back. Then right before 5 he sent an email - just some political forward to me and 2 other people.
We haven't talked in over a week, other than my telling him to let DSS know I was at the football game on Saturday. That took all of 30 seconds, and he told me Ladybug had left her clothes bag when he dropped her off on Sunday.
He hasn't been on match.com for a week now.
I'm wondering if he's 'found' someone or if he's just been too busy. Actually I've tried very hard NOT to wonder about it, but I still do. A work friend tells me he's on a bit of a downward slide right now. Doesn't seem to be on top of his game when he's around which is unusual for him.
I'm not sure what I really think or feel these days. I enjoyed my date the other night, but V is turning into someone who is just a bit too needy for me right now. Nice guy but I'm not ready for a relationship - seems that he is. I'll have to find a way to let him know nicely where I stand with it. I don't want to hurt his feelings. There's just no way at this moment that I'm at the place to let anyone in - - - there's still too much space taken up by Drac.
For this moment, I'm going to really focus on the job for a few hours and see if I can't knock out a bunch of stuff that's been hanging over my head. That should ease some pressure and help me feel better.
Hope you all have a great day.
Oh Bugs, I feel for you on the whole job thing. I was in corporate for over 20 years, and always hated the politics and butt-kissing. It's nice owning your own business because I you have to put up with that crap. The trade-off is no health insurance, no 401K, no nice office, no paid expenses, and well, no pay. :MrEEk: Then there are the customers
You've come a long way Bugs. Keep up the good work...
Thanks, Chai!
You are right about there being trade offs either way - corporate or self owned business. Overall, I really can't complain. I've been with the same company for going on 18 years and most of it has been great! Just new managers lately that I have some issues with. Some changes are coming down the pike,,,,and they can't get here soon enough for me!!
I just had an email show up in my In Box from Drac. The preview says something about a conversation he had with DSS about courtesy & respect during which he reminded him that I'd called & left messages asking him to call me.
I haven't read the whole thing yet.
Is it possible the darkness is bothering him a tiny bit?
Bugsy:
I think you need a definite PLAN about how you're going to proceed with DRAC. Wanna talk more about that?
Mimi,
Yes,,,,,,,,,,,,and no.
I've pretty much been avoiding the subject as I just really don't know what to do.
or
What I want to do.
or
What I should do
I've pretty much been avoiding the subject as I just really don't know what to do.
or
What I want to do.
or
What I should do
That's why I asked you. AVOIDANCE is YOUR PLAN and not a good one for you, IMO. Having a DEFINITE PLAN of ATTACK is BEST according to the ART OF WAR and the ART OF LIFE (i made this part up...LOL)
'Cause if YOU don't have your own DEFINITE PLAN..DRAC is in control..whether he knows it or not..and this is affecting even your WORK LIFE...he's got you IN LIMBO...
Boy, I'll be honest Bugsy, I really think you need to get really dark AND move forward with your own existence. This guy is a dead weight as he is. Just let him come to you. If you are available and willing when/if that happens, THEN you can broach the subject of recovery. I don't see someone who is committed to anything but himself.
Maybe not the MB thing to say, but it's about protecting yourself, and I can read to pain in your posts, the disappointment, and know that this has hurt you a great deal more than you may be letting on. It's not a full false recovery, because neither of you were fully vested, but the loss sure can make it feel that way, even if it's short lived.
(i made this part up...LOL)
Love it!
Yes, I agree it's best to have a plan. I guess when I really look myself in the mirror with honesty, the reluctance I've had to make a plan is because it no longer seems possible to me that the outcome of any plan I make can possibly result in getting what I want/need from Drac.
So, my brain then goes to the thought of 'why have a plan if it can't get you where you want to be'?
I don't necessarily agree that he has me in limbo. If anything, I've put myself there by no having a plan.
His email today is about DSS - and includes frustration on his part in dealing with him. Basically, I read it as a 'reach out' to me about parenting issues. He doesn't ask for my help but I can tell he'd like to have it,,,,yet he sent email instead of calling.
This coming weekend is my nephew's wedding out of town. DSS has a football game. I talked to DSS a few weeks ago about it & made it clear that the choice to go to the wedding or stay for the game was totally up to him.
Here is Drac's so that you can see what I'm talking about.
I had a chat with DSS this morning over being courteous and respectful. I had asked him this morning if he has spoke with you lately and reminded him that you had left a couple messages to call him. He said he had not received any missed calls on his cell phone.
His "what I felt attitude" made me a bit angry and I may have not been very sensitive. I told him I understood he now has friends to hang out with, something he has always wanted but that he been disrespectful to the people that have always accepted him and been there for him. I had asked him if he made the decision to go with you this weekend and he said I told him he was to play football.
So... This started a discussion of his perception of things and his selective hearing, the conversation went something like the 3 of us, DSS, Ladybug, and I were talking about the weekend. Ladybug told DSS he had to miss his game because he had to go to the wedding. I said it was DSS's choice to miss or go to the game.
Now my explanation to DSS this morning was what part of the game would he be missing if he never plays? He gave me the excuse it was not his fault that the coach does not listen to him when he says he wants to play. I told him to stop playing the victim game, if he wants to play football asking to play does not cut it he has to show it.
Long story short, I hope he contacts you. Let me know what the plan is for the week end.
PS As you may be able to tell there is a lot of frustration here, and a lot more to this than I am able to place into an email. I wanted you to get the highlights.
So how do I plan for dealing with this stuff? Darkness. Simple thanks for the info?
I just don't know. I want more than to be a co-parent. Drac wants a co-parent.
Are the kids suffering by my lack of cooperation in that department?
Is it possible that Drac does/could want more and that it depends greatly on how I handle all of it?
I just don't know anymore.
Boy, I'll be honest Bugsy, I really think you need to get really dark AND move forward with your own existence.
Maybe not the MB thing to say, but it's about protecting yourself,
It IS the MBers' thing TO DO and TO SAY...but Bugsy, in a sense, has stopped buying into the system...not listening...
Bugsy, I think you've been SUCKED IN..UNDER HIS SPELL..as in ADDICTION...
I think DRAC is a CASANOVA...SEDUCTIVE...
I think you should do what is best for YOU. This is about Plan Y.
I had suggested before that you simply tell him abit about what is going on with you. That you enjoy the coparenting role, but that you still want more, and it hurts to talk to him and pretend you have no feelings.
And I understand you not wanting to stick your neck out about that...because you harbor hope that your words make a difference in this situation to him...and whether he comes back or not.
But let's take him out of the situation. Stop living your life for him, or trying to get him to do something...or manipulate the situation. Plan B is never about manipulation, it sometimes seems that way because you take back the control of the relationship, and the WP has to change in order to stay connected (or not).
But this isn't about exacting a change in him, this is about doing what is best for you. And doing what is fair. It is not fair that you go back and forth with Drac...in contact, out of contact, without him knowing why. If you are truly over, or especially if you want a relationship, it is time to be honest with him, and let him know why it is hard for you to stay in contact with him...
Then do what is best for you. He will understand why you have dark days and more connected days then.
Are you afraid once you profess you are still waiting you will have played your trump card and you have no other manipulation to play? Stop thinking of it as a game, or as war. This is your life, and whatever happens, if you have lived your life in a fair and honest manner, then you can look back at with satisfaction.
Ok, so it IS MB, but in the way I am expressing it, I am NOT suggesting that she harbor all this hope for a marriage with Drac, I am saying that she harbor hope that she will find HER way, and whoever suits that way, will be by her side, and she can share her MB language with THEM. It may never be Drac.
I honestly think it's time to punt.
I agree completely with Stillheremaking it. Be completely honest with Drac, and then get dark. I don't believe in doing a Plan A once you have completed that task. HE KNOWS THAT YOU CAN CHANGE. He won't know that you can sustain those changes until he grows a set and meets you halfway; until then, you are spinning your wheels.
If you really want to be done with him, keep in contact. He will slowly drain your love bank with his lack of real reciprocation. He just sounds like he doesn't want to be alone, which comes from insecurity, NOT LOVE.
Woman, you are such a prize. Don't devalue yourself by giving even an inch to someone who doesn't appreciate what he's gettin. It took me a long time to get to that place. I would have totally entertained (and did) being with the Z if he appreciated what I was doing. HE didn't even have the appreciation, much less any of the drive necessary to recover.
SHMI,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
And I understand you not wanting to stick your neck out about that...because you harbor hope that your words make a difference in this situation to him...and whether he comes back or not.
True. True.
But let's take him out of the situation.
Ok
But this isn't about exacting a change in him, this is about doing what is best for you
I've really thought about this today. For how long now have I lived my life doing what was 'best' for me that INCLUDED protecting my love for him and hoping/praying for an opportunity for an 'us' again?
I think facing doing what's best for me without that piece of the puzzle is the change with which I am struggling right now.
It is not fair that you go back and forth with Drac...in contact, out of contact, without him knowing why. If you are truly over, or especially if you want a relationship, it is time to be honest with him, and let him know why it is hard for you to stay in contact with him...
Ok so we have him back in the discussion. Let me clarify, that I have not refused any contact with him whatsoever. I haven't told him I was not speaking with him or set any guidelines or boundaries on our communication. I have been either more or less detailed in the communications and I have not initiated any friendly or 'more than' friendly communications as I did for a while.
Yes, he certainly sees inconsistancy in how much I communicate but it's not been a stated ON again, OFF again thing.
The part of me that wants this all to be over says, "who gives a flying F about what is fair or not fair to him". Yet I do see what you are saying. There's no way for him to understand any of it as I haven't been upfront about every interaction. However, I have little doubt that he knows full well that I am very much interested in an 'us' again.
Are you afraid once you profess you are still waiting you will have played your trump card and you have no other manipulation to play?
No, what I am afraid of is that by once again saying it out loud to him is that there will be some final curtain. Some final speech from him that will really close the door forever.
AND/OR
That he will look at me with pity. I don't think I could stand that.
SL - - - I know you are right about every single thing in your post. You have no idea how much your sharing and support means to me!!
I think I just gotta work through this living for ME that doesn't include some form of "hoping for us". I'm struggling with it, especially when trying how to co-parent without that feeling of something more.
I know I'll get through it.
So how do I plan for dealing with this stuff? Darkness. Simple thanks for the info?
I just don't know. I want more than to be a co-parent. Drac wants a co-parent.
Are the kids suffering by my lack of cooperation in that department?
Is it possible that Drac does/could want more and that it depends greatly on how I handle all of it?
I just don't know anymore.
I understand EXACTLY where you are, Bugs. I don't know the answers to these questions, but they are very relevant.
My response is 'when in doubt, go back to Steve. . . .'
I've really thought about this today. For how long now have I lived my life doing what was 'best' for me that INCLUDED protecting my love for him and hoping/praying for an opportunity for an 'us' again?
I'm not understanding how come your situation is viewed differently than others. I believe that I must be missing something. Isn't it the MBers' viewpoint that the BEST CHANCE of MARITAL RECOVERY in a situation such as yours is PLAN B? AND, after 2 years in PLAN B, then there is a low likelihood of reconciliation. Isn't that what Dr. Harley says?
It seems to me that PLAN B protects your love for him, if RECOVERY is ever an option, and ALSO allows you to MOVE ON to a healthy emotional place.
It seems to me that you are backsliding in the above in your venture out of PLAN B. It's a PLAN that the good Dr. has devised to foster MARRIAGES and EMOTIONAL HEALTH if the marriage ends. At least, you will be equipped to deal with and enter in to NEW RELATIONSHIPS after completing the two years in PLAN B.
However, I have little doubt that he knows full well that I am very much interested in an 'us' again.
EXACTLY..he knows the DANCE..and this must HURT more than you are acknowleging as stated by SL...
No, what I am afraid of is that by once again saying it out loud to him is that there will be some final curtain. Some final speech from him that will really close the door forever.
AND/OR
That he will look at me with pity. I don't think I could stand that.
This is what concerns me..you no longer present yourself in a position of PERSONAL POWER...You are AFRAID of stating YOUR TRUTH?..you are AFRAID of HIS RESPONSE?...He has already drawn the CURTAIN, Bugsy. This is not NEW. You have picked yourself up and are now holding your head up high..chest out...If HE rejects YOU, HE IS TO BE PITIED....This is why I say that HE seems to be in CONTROL..you seem CONTROLLED out of some FEAR of HIS REACTION?...YUCK..who is he but a man who has ABANDONED HIS FAMILY and hangs out on match.com...YUCK...
Morning!
First, let me say that I don't view my situation as any different than any other here. Nor do I think that the plans don't apply to me - they do. What I am saying is that my
view of where I stand in my situation is changing.
I have been trying to figure it all out - the best I can say right now is that perhaps I am truly mourning the loss of 'hope' that I've harbored all of this time. A portion of my personal power with Chin up and Chest out rested in some ways on the foundation of hope & belief that I had in the ultimate restoration of my relationship with Drac.
As I have said, the whole opening up to the dating world is outside my 'comfort' zone in that it is very hard for me to be involved in any way with anyone while I have feelings for another person. By dating, I feel like I need to not just close the door on Drac, but it's time to lock it and throw away the key. I'm a one door at a time kinda gal.
Yes, the hurt I have been feeling about Drac is more than I've realized for some time. That's because I've been looking at it again. I pulled it out of the closet when I allowed the interaction with him. Yes, I realize that this is a direct result of the lowering of Plan B boundaries.
Fox posted this yesterday -
Looking back, I can literally see his anguish. And see how close he was to returning.
It made me want to reach out to him again. To that wounded soul that was so lost. To see if he is still out there.
But I cannot and I will not. My REAL H is dead, only WxH exists now.
It's worse than a death. With death you can always wish for one more day. You know it can never happen, but you can imagine all the wonderful things you would do if you had just one more day with your loved one.
With infidelity, you wish for that one more day. The one more day to make it right and do the best you can do - one more day to love like you have never loved before.
Acceptance that this will never happen is hard to achieve as your loved one still exists. Your brain repeats: It COULD happen........if you just hang on long enough......if you want it bad enough.
It's grief, just as in a death. But unlike the finality of death, hope remains in this situation. It's the hope that prolongs the grief.
Even after all this time and all the bull......I still want to know that he does not hate me and does not REALLY believe all those things he said. I want to believe that he still can be a decent man and love his daughters and treat them well.
I, too, am almost better off financially than when we were together. It's easier to have a budget when you are the only one responsible for it and there isn't another person out spending in different areas.
Our lives will improve and it won't always be about THIS. D does help, but it doesn't demolish those feelings.
Time....good old father time will continue to work his magic.
This is very much me as well. Most days I work/live beyond these thoughts and feelings. Some days not. As Fox said, father time helps lessen the number of days with these thoughts and feelings.
..who is he but a man who has ABANDONED HIS FAMILY and hangs out on match.com...YUCK...
Yes, this is the man he is being today - - - I'm still remembering the man he was when I married him. Although I don't 'want' to, I find I still pray for the return of
that man.
Long story short, turns out that DSS IS going to the wedding with me & Ladybug this weekend. Bottomline is that Drac manipulated him into it. Why? I can only guess - but my guess is that it is because Drac has plans this weekend. I'd LIKE to think it was/is because of some misguided concern about the relationship between me & DSS, but that would just be giving Drac credit he does not deserve.
He is still incredibly selfish & self centered. He can give all of the lip service he wants about being focused on his kids - but his actions tell another story.
So, Bugs is sitting here Chin Up/Chest Out taking back the personal power without the crutch of 'hope' about Drac. Not easy, but I'm doing it. One day at a time.
Mimi wrote some pretty powerful stuff and it's exactly the conclusion I had come to some months ago, after the initial anger subsided.
Hang in there, Bugsy. Get back to you again. Get dark.
Stop dating if you don't want to. You don't HAVE to prove anything to anybody. You only have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and feel good with you. When you are ready, the men will appear, because they will sense it. You will carry yourself in such a way that says you are open to the possibilities. Right now, you are closed off. I think you have to get about 99% over Drac before cashing out of this. Until then, just enjoy your life, your family, your girlfriends, whatever.
There is such a huge difference in the ways you have chosen to heal vs. Drac.
Drac is constantly searching out there for something that will make him "happy". Some outside force that will come into his life and fix things.
You, on the other hand, look inside. You have done so much inward searching and questioning. And you know that the key to your happiness does not lie out in the world with someone else, but right there in your own skin.
Its great to be a "one door at a time" kind of girl when it comes to relationships. But I STRONGLY suggest you take a different approach when it comes to dating. Do not treat every first date as the start of a relationship.
Especially when you are just entering this world and are vulnerable to your unmet needs.
I really suggest that you date a lot of people. And look at it as forming new friendships first and foremost. Don't start every date with the idea that it will lead to something more.
Kind of a "live-in-the-moment" approach.
Thanks SL -
Until then, just enjoy your life, your family, your girlfriends, whatever.
Yep, this is where I am comfortable for now. Best place for me at this moment in time.
Lexxxy-
You, on the other hand, look inside. You have done so much inward searching and questioning. And you know that the key to your happiness does not lie out in the world with someone else, but right there in your own skin.
Yes, and the best part is that I've decided that my own skin is a pretty darn good place to live. Thanks for the reminder.
Its great to be a "one door at a time" kind of girl when it comes to relationships. But I STRONGLY suggest you take a different approach when it comes to dating. Do not treat every first date as the start of a relationship.
I had that in mind before going out Saturday. This is how I had set my expectation/attitude beforehand.
What I haven't shared with you all is what I've heard since then from V. He's a very nice guy, but he is going from zero to sixty in 2.2 seconds with things. He's sent me several emails which are very open, very honest, and a WAY too much for me right now. It really got me spinning with having to think about things that I realize I am totally not prepared for yet.
He's saying GREAT things - SO many things that are right in line with my thinking, my values, and many, many of the MB principles. Things that I definately want to hear from someone with whom I would have a realtionship. Things I am dying to hear from Drac.
Problem is, that this isn't yet a relationship and all of the things he's saying are much much too soon.
I'm pretty sure this is what triggered my 'freaking out' these last few days.
As you said, I wanted to find some new friendships. Now I just feel bad because I don't want to hurt someone who is so nice. He's been wounded in similar ways. He has made a journey very much like mine through his divorce. He's made changes almost identical to mine. But I am in no way ready for what he has in mind.
So, it was a good and bad first date experience so far,,,,,,
Hey Bugsy,
I can totally relate to your theory of being a one door at a time kinda girl.
It feels disloyal to go out with someone and then go out with someone else.
I think it is necessary in order to really see what is out there and be able to choose correctly.
But it just doesn' "feel" right.
If I went out with a guy for dinner or whatever, and then saw him another night out with someone else. I'd write him off. Player. Obviously, he was not interested enough in me to get through a couple of dates before writing ME off and seeing someone else.
Fair? I dunno.
But if he shows disloyalty that early on.......
I think the problem is that I look at anyone I go out with as a potential relationship. I'm too old to date and be a player. I just don't have the time or energy. If I commit to a date it is because I am interested in a possible future.
I am VERY picky about who I choose to go out with and am pretty good at putting out the "not available" vibe when someone shows interest that I am not interested in.
There is a guy that does work for our office. He has on two occasions now asked me out. I am just not interested in him at all, friends or otherwise. I have kindly refused him both times. I won't even go to lunch with him because I'm just simply not interested. He is not the type of guy I would date and there is an "ick" factor to him. I don't know why, but all the ladies on the office are very put off by him.
I don't believe in giving up your HOPE..
I'm saying to BURY it DEEP inside AGAIN...
Put it in SAFEKEEPING..locked away in a VAULT inside your HEART...
I'm saying that if you don't LOCK it away THEN you will lose it...
MAKE SENSE?????
I understand how you LOVE the MAN that DRAC was...
And I really believe that people can CHANGE...
I've live to see such MIRACLES even...
But it's HIS WORK and GOD'S WORK..OUT OF YOUR CONTROL...
You're only in control of YOURSELF and YOUR LIFE...
I don't believe in giving up your HOPE..
I'm saying to BURY it DEEP inside AGAIN...
Put it in SAFEKEEPING..locked away in a VAULT inside your HEART...
I agree with Mimi on this one. You don't know what's going to happen, so why not keep that hope in the box on the shelf in case you need it some day.
But why should this prevent you from dating? Did you have a good time with V? If he's coming on too strong, can't you say "Whoa, dude. I had a nice time, but that's too much. I can only do *this* much right now, and if you want more, you're going to have to find someone else"? So that you can continue to enjoy his company without getting into more than you've bargained for?
Maybe I'm being naive, but I think that the only risk in this approach is that if and when Drac finally Wakes Up, you may have moved on to someone else and won't be interested in taking him back. At this point, Bugs, aren't you willing to take that risk?
I know I am. I miss spending time in the company of women.
And, FWIW, your comments about your reaction to your date sound EXACTLY like what Sis said after her first date. I haven't heard from her in quite a while, and I can only assume it's because she's having so much fun, she doesn't have time to spend on her old MB pals.
ok, now that Lexxxy, mimi and guy smiley have chimed in, I can see why dating, while being honest with the guy about your limits, IS a good thing.
I like guy's approach to the whole dating thing.
I love how y'all teach me stuff
I like guy's approach to the whole dating thing.
I'd be interested in more people chiming in, because it's all hypothetical for me right now.
ok, now that Lexxxy, mimi and guy smiley have chimed in,
WHOOPS!!!
I can't foget the Foxy lady
. So sorry. Much love. Much respect.
Hmmmm:
Quote:ok, now that Lexxxy, mimi and guy smiley have chimed in,
Does SOMEBODY have an ADMIRATION Need?
Darn! Ya caught me, LG!
I have an ADMIRATION need and a DON'T LEAVE ME OUT! need.
Thanks, SL - I feel much better now.
Fox
Bugs,
Just dropping by for support...
You're getting great advice (....and many of us 'lurkers' here are benefitting).
Thanks...to you and to those posting.
If he's coming on too strong, can't you say "Whoa, dude. I had a nice time, but that's too much. I can only do *this* much right now, and if you want more, you're going to have to find someone else"? So that you can continue to enjoy his company without getting into more than you've bargained for?
I like your approach, too, guy...like SL said...
Seems like someone asked you earlier, Bugsy, if you have difficulty being straightforward and open? What keeps you from saying something like this? This is how I communicate with my husband NOW...straight, upfront, honest and open...HEAD UP, CHEST OUT..eyelashes fluttering (?)..not sure that's a word..LOL.. with a whiff of cologne...
Hi Bugs,
Wow, you certainly have a lot going on for you. Not all the good news I had hoped, but learning about life nonetheless.
I totally relate and wish for the same things you do. I wish so hard that Drac and WH would figure this out, but they are stupid. They are selfish and for some reason you and I seem to still be in total love with our H who don't exist today.
Will they come back, I have no clue. Will I continue to wait, not sure anymore.
I obviously can't offer advice, but I can offer a prayer, hug and my best wishes that you are taking care of yourself and learning the lessons that G-d needs you to.
How did we get so lucky to love such yutses? :RollieEyes:
Bugs:
Just wanted to chime in.
You KNOW what Drac is doing. And YOU KNOW that he KNOWS what you want.
Therefore, go date. Nobody you date has any right for your exclusivity until you say so. You can also double and triple date with others to reduce the "exclusivity" pressure. Get to know some of the others better.
And to just get out there. Because you can.
(((Bugs)))
LG
Hey, Bugs
I think I mentioned that some of the things you said about your date sounded like things LilSis had said, so I sent some of what you posted to her to get her perspective. It was a bit different from mine.
He's saying GREAT things - SO many things that are right in line with my thinking, my values, and many, many of the MB principles. Things that I definately want to hear from someone with whom I would have a realtionship. Things I am dying to hear from Drac.
You said this. What jumped out at Sis was "Things I am dying to hear from Drac." That wasn't the case for her. The only thing she wanted to hear from her WH was an apology and recognition for all the destruction, but she didn't want him back anymore. Her Done-o-meter was pegged. Yours isn't, and so she questioned whether you are really ready to date.
I can see her point but choose to look at things in terms of what you want. There are the extremes
Done: you wouldn't take him back regardless. Dealing with Drac: go ahead and have contact and establish a level that is best for you and the kids, whatever that happens to be. Dating: you are free to date whatever kind of people you want--even the ones who are looking for a mate.
Very Not Done: what you want is still for him to come back. If this is still what you want, then you should get back into a dark Plan B. Protect your feelings, don't meet his needs--the whole nine yards. As far as dating, you shouldn't be doing it at all. If this is where you are, you should probably still be consulting with Steve.
And then there's the middle ground, which is where many of us live. You don't close off any possibilities. You try to leave the door open where you can. Seal up the hope as best you can.
As far as dating, do it casually. Maybe that means you have to avoid the people who are in mate-seeking mode, which it sounds like the-guy-whom-we're-not-referring-to-as-stalkerboy-anymore might be. Maybe it means you have to be honest with him about what you are and aren't looking for.
I'm probably being naive about this casual dating thing, because I haven't actually done any of it myself, but it's where I hope to get to.
You haven't checked in for a while, so an update would be good. After I sign, I'm going to a Texas Has Information Systems Implicitly Seeking Heavier And Rounder Dogs meeting.
Hey everyone!
I've been crazy busy with work & trying to get ready to head out of town this afternoon for my nephew's wedding in Kentucky. (and answering like 20 text messages a day from V (aka - stalker boy).
Right now I am sitting at the lube place getting the oil changed in the car before I hit the road later, so this am taking the time to post real quick.
SD,,,,it was so sweet of you to touch base with Sis about my sitch. Please pass along my thanks to her as well!
Your Done-o-Meter phases are right on the money. I think I'm like so many,,,, living in the middle right now. I don't think I'm up for dating someone who is mate-seeking mode. Perhaps if I met someone & it slowly got to that point I might feel differently. The sitch with V isn't that kind of situation.
I had planned on seeing him last night so that we could talk about things, but it didn't work out. I just feel more comfortable doing it in person, as I want him to be able to see me & for me to see him so that my message comes across the way I want it to. He's going to be hurt no matter what I say, but there's nothing to be done about that. Better now than later. While I feel badly, I realize that it's not my fault. That's a new thing for me since starting MB and something I still am working on - not taking responsibility for something that's not mine to take on.
What I want and do not want right now in the 'dating' world? Casual & fun. Period. End of story. If someone comes along that eventually leads to more I'll deal with that if/when it happens.
Mimi - it's not so much that I have a problem stating my truth but I do have a way of 'waiting' for what I feel is the right moment in time. That is something I'm working on because it's not so much a good thing sometimes. I need to be less concerned with the other person's reaction and/or feelings quite so much if it's something that is hurting me in any way by not coming right out and saying it.
Thanks again,, Everyone. My car is ready and I gotta roll. I'll post again later if I end up getting ready with time to spare,,,,,,,,,but don't hold your breath! ha!
Oh, SD, I won't have time to tell on your thread, but good luck with the MSA. I know what you are saying about this meeting -
Texas Has Information Systems Implicitly Seeking Heavier And Rounder Dogs meeting.
I've been to the sister chapter here in my area - Texas Has Information Systems Seeking Ultimately Crazy Kitten Sitters.
Hey Bugs,
Have an awesome weekend...
Hi Bugs,
What I want and do not want right now in the 'dating' world? Casual & fun. Period. End of story. If someone comes along that eventually leads to more I'll deal with that if/when it happens.
...I need to be less concerned with the other person's reaction and/or feelings quite so much if it's something that is hurting me in any way by not coming right out and saying it.
Glad to see Bugs taking care of Bugs.
Looking forward to hearing all about the wedding.
Morning!
Glad to finally be able to get on to post. Not that I had a lot of time yesterday , , ,
The entire weekend was very, very good. We worked hard to pull off a lot of things last minute for the kids, and it paid off well. They don't have much money, and had even less sense when it came to trying to plan a wedding. The bride's parents have been against this relationship (especially her dad), so the things usually taken care of by the bride's family fell to my sister. We picked up the slack and it came off beautifully!
They were very happy and pleased with everything. With the loss of his brother last year, there was a tinge of sadness around the edges - - - but that also has made them both even more committed to one another & their children.
I can't count the number of times I teared up throughout the day/night. Happy tears and sad tears. Weddings are especially difficult for me. Seeing the happiness & promise of a new marriage,,,,,,,,,remembering feeling the same way on my wedding day,,,,praying that they never experience what we all have. Anger at Drac. Sadness for my loss.
I experienced something I don't know that I've felt before in regards to Drac - a bit of pity. I feel sorry for him in that he does not understand what he's given up. And that I don't think he understands what he needs to do within himself before he can ever be truly happy. He's going to keep going around and around the same process with someone new every time. I seriously doubt he'll ever find someone as willing as I to try to make it right for a lifetime.
He apparently has someone new on the line - hot & heavy. He's not been on match for 3 weeks. He took the day off Friday to 'clean house', which means he was having company over. He was gone Sunday when it was time to drop off DSS, and he was out last night. Poor DSS. He's alone waaay too much. Although, I have to say he had a really good time this weekend, for which I am very glad.
I had a talk with V about our dating. I explained my boundaries and he took it quite well. I was clear that I am in no position to be making any kind of commitment to anyone and that I will be dating other people. He understands, but I don't think he will be doing the same. I think he understands that he has come on way too strong and is going to back off. We'll see how it goes.
We are going to dinner Friday night.
I'm trying to make today a good day, but am feeling a bit of a funk. I let myself think too much about Drac. It still hurts that he's involved in yet another relationship, while I am still hurting over us to the point where I'm really not all that interested in having other relationships of my own.
I'm just working every day to keep giving it over to God. He has a plan,,,,,,,,I just need to keep myself in a position where I allow His plan to work. Like everyone else here,,I just wish I could understand what that plan is!! I know that it will be what is Best for me, and that although I think I'm ready for it, only He knows that for sure.
Guess I'd better get to work!
Morning Bugs,
Glad the wedding was good. No kidding on how hard it is to be around happy couples and remember, want and know how different life can be.
You, I, Luna, SL, Chai and so many others have this unabashed ability to keep loving someone who just simple doesn't get it.
The more you describe Drac, the more I see WH in him. Is he EVER willing to realize that this running from relationship or situation to situation isn't the situation but their own lack of strength to delve inside themselves and see why they are so unhappy.
That is the part that we have no responsibility or can do for them. But it hurts to sit idolly by on the side line watching the continued destruction and still be so much in love with men who simply don't comprehend what they are losing daily.
I know this realization of pity and sadness well. I admire you so much and know you will work through this, but like everything else, we just get to feel the blasted feelings and keep trusting G-d.
Hi Bugs,
He apparently has someone new on the line - hot & heavy. He's not been on match for 3 weeks. He took the day off Friday to 'clean house', which means he was having company over. He was gone Sunday when it was time to drop off DSS, and he was out last night.
Sorry about this, Bugs...I think this is waaay too much info. that you DON'T need to know....
...is there any way you can go DARKER and 'protect' yourself better, Bugs?
Bugs,
This is my brother. On his third M and now unhappy again. Rather than work, it's easier to walk and hope that he'll find the love of his life next time. They operate under a different set of rules. My brother just recently admitted that he made the biggest mistake of his life when he gave up his first M after 20+ years. He has never, and will never, find anyone like his first W. She is a kind, caring, sweet, wonderful person who is now happily M to someone else (a rich someone else too). It took him 15 years to figure it out. I have a feeling it will take Drac a while to figure it out too. Sorry Bugs.
I do hope that you have a wonderful dinner date. Just look to have a good time and gain a new friend. And hopefully a free dinner!!
Hey everyone!
It’s been a crazy week and the weekend is looking pretty busy, too. This is all good!
Nothing really special going on with me. I was out with friends Wed. night, including a guy I used to work with years ago. We’ve known each other probably going on almost 20 years now. He’d asked me to go riding with him in a couple of weeks (he has been into Harley’s for all of the years that I’ve known him). I accepted, but made sure we had a discussion about expectations. He’s more like a brother to me than anything and I was up front in telling him this. We agreed it would just be nice to be able to spend time with someone doing fun things, and we’d be each other’s ‘wing man’.
While out that night, my cell phone rang and it’s was Drac’s home number. It was much to early for it to be the kids checking in, so I was concerned something was wrong. It was Drac. He asked if I had a minute, as there was something he needed to tell me. I had to walk outside because it was so loud where I was that I couldn’t really hear him.
Turns out he wanted to tell me about DSS. DSS called him at work to let him know that he was going over to a girl’s house to ‘finally’ tell her that he likes her. His bf talked him into it and he decided that he just had to ‘get it off his chest’. So, DSS and his bf went to the girl’s house, and apparently it went well, as all 3 kids were on their way back to Drac’s for dinner. Drac went on for a minute about how he was surprised that DSS found it necessary to call him to tell him about it beforehand.
I replied that it was good that DSS called him; I’m glad he’s found a girl that he likes, and that he decided to tell her about it. Drac then tells me that it’s the daughter of one of his employees, , , so it could get a bit complicated. I didn’t comment on that. He went on again about DSS calling him. I told him that I wasn’t surprised and that in this regard, DSS is very much like him. He asked how? I said that just like Drac, he gets an idea in his head or a feeling,,,,,,,,,,,,he builds it up in his mind for a while and then is simply ‘driven’ to DO something about it. I’ve seen him do the same thing many times.
Drac wanted to chat more, stating that he wanted me to know about this as ‘it’s the kind of thing I think we should share”. I didn’t comment about that either, and the call basically ended.
I thought about asking “WTF? Why are you calling me about this? Just last week you said in an email that we can’t talk about something as important as DSS’s relationship with me because things are ‘too tense’, but you call me about this today?” But, I figured it was a futile conversation so I didn’t go there.
While I’ve been much too busy to give this a whole lot of thought, I think the purpose of the call was for him to prove to me that he’s a good Dad because DSS is sharing this kind of thing with him AND he does understand that this kind of thing parents can only really share/appreciate with one another. While I was glad to know about this, it still makes me scratch my head and wonder about Drac.
I am happy to say that I haven't spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about it. That's a good thing.
Later today I am meeting up with my Mom and Grandmother for lunch. Today is Grandma’s birthday – she is 98 today!! Still lives alone and is as sharp as a tack. I can only hope to be ½ as strong, wise, and sharp as she is someday!
Have a great weekend everyone!
Its still Drac...trying to redeem himself in your eyes.
Demonstrating that he's such a great dad that his son shares relationship issues with him.
And demonstrating what an adult he is to share it with you.
Man oh man does Drac really want to keep you 'on the line'...
*sigh*
He still hasn't had withdrawl.. he still hasn't learned.
Bugs.. he's dangerous to you. He just doesn't understand that it's all or nothing does he..
*sigh*
To quote Foxy... STOOOOOPID WAYWARDS..
They just don't get it..
He sooo remains a CAKE-EATER...wanting Bugsy to remain around waiting, keeping the HOME FIRES BURNING...providing RELIEF from his SOUL PAIN... while he PLAYS...so he can CONTINUE to play without REMORSE...
IMO, he still needs to SUFFER the LOSS of BUGSY in order to change...
IMO, WAYWARDS need to SUFFER in order to CHANGE...
As long as he gets ANY whiff of BUGSY, he is RELIEVED of SOME of his SUFFERING and carries on...
Bugsy, I get so concerned about how he is USING you as a MEANS of continuing HIS SICKNESS/ADDICTION...
you become an ENABLER...
I got to the point of not being able to handle it..and when I see DRAC doing it, it disgusts me...
Just being REAL with you, hon...
Luv ya...
BLECH!!!! with a capital BULLSHITE!!!
IMO, for what it's worth, this man needs to be cut off before he even gets to talking. So DSS wants a girlfriend; um, nothing really all that fascinating about that. It's that time in his life. DSS could have relayed this info to you. Pointless conversation.
I say let his loss be his lesson, Bugsy. Harsh? Maybe. You've done all you can. I feel like it's time to let him go, even though you are afraid to cut off your chance for recovery. I think Drac's already done that.
Sounds so much like the Z; not interested in doing the real work; just interested in not feeling the pain; not only that--wanting YOU to take it away. BLEEEEEEH (said like Snoopy when he doesn't like something)
Lately, I have made a point to let the Z know that I don't need all that information from him. Just the facts, please. DS can fill in the blanks--we have our OWN relationship. Such is separation and divorce.
Love you lots, Bugsy, and know that you will survive this with class.
I agree with the others Bugs...it needs to be all or nothing.
This quasi-plan-B-unless-he-needs-to-talk-to-you isn't going to lead you to recovery.
What is your plan these days?
IMO, for what it's worth, this man needs to be cut off before he even gets to talking. So DSS wants a girlfriend; um, nothing really all that fascinating about that. It's that time in his life. DSS could have relayed this info to you. Pointless conversation.
EXACTLY!!
I say let his loss be his lesson, Bugsy.
EXACTLY!!
You've done all you can. I feel like it's time to let him go
I THINK THIS IS YOUR ONLY CHANCE AT RECOVERY..I know a BROKEN RECORD...
just interested in not feeling the pain; not only that--wanting YOU to take it away.
EXACTLY!!
Love you lots, Bugsy, and know that you will survive this with class.
DITTO!!
...wanted to add my AMENs to SL's GREAT STUFF!!
Recovery, or even starting anew, may be possible some time down the line, way off in the distance, but I truly believe this man is going to have to suffer this loss in order to have any impetus to change. I see that now, with the Z. I am not now amenable to recovery. The wringer is only the half of what he put me through, what I chose to put myself thru, to some extent.
In your case, you could just as easily step back and away, get to gettin--Step back into Plan B mode. I believe Drac will have to actually lose you. This means you will have moved forward without him. It's a risky proposition FOR HIM, not you, IMO. You are armed with a wealth of info on how to have a really great relationship, and you are learning to employ honesty and openness with 'new' relationships, be it friends or potential mates. You will fare just fine.
If Drac really wants you in the future, he will pursue you to the ends of the earth, and he will want to know what YOU want and need in order to grant him access. If not, you have lost nothing more than is already in a shambles, which, by that time, you will have gotten past and dealt with.
Probably TMI for a Friday, but there it is.
YOU ARE SOOOO ON TARGET, SL!!
TRULY OUTSTANDING POST!!
I APPLAUD YOU!!
IN FACT, THIS IS A STANDING OVATION!!
I'm happy to finally be at a place where I AM HAPPY. I pat myself of the back for FINALLY leading with my head. Que sera sera.
I cannot forsee this future. I CAN do my best so that it is BRIGHT!!!
When I'm at DS's football practice, I see the Z and I see how he looks at me--almost with apologetic eyes, wanting to interact. I look his way now and then, and feel the sting of pity, for he HAS lost something that coulda been great, and he will not capture that again until he fixes himself. I have a certain level of safety with the distance between us. I have no desire to recover with him, but I hope that he can find peace someday.
I told him long ago that I will have no regrets over anything I've done to stay together, to save our marriage; he will. 'Tis a shame that he compounded his problems with more deceit and chaos. 'Tis a shame that he will be missing the majority of his son's life.
Head held high, I move along...
SL
Outstanding stuff!
Probably TMI for a Friday, but there it is.
No such thing as TMI when it's good information and said with such care and concern.
Lexxxy, you asked what is my plan? My plan has been just to worry about Bugs Life. (I am thinking of making an animated movie about it
) Period.
I had my first date, am getting out and meeting people with a more open mind & attitude(I met a very interesting/cute PGA golfer/offical at the wedding - he happens to be my nephew's new uncle-in-law & there was some matchmaking going on by folks at the reception), and just doing my own thing.
After having little or no communication with Drac for several weeks, and his email of a week or so ago, I've been comfortable with just letting go.
This means you will have moved forward without him. It's a risky proposition FOR HIM, not you, IMO
For the first time I had this exact thought Wednesday night! Yes, I've thought many times that he is really the LOSER by not having me in his life. I know I'm worthy of being treated as the Goddess that I am. Yet I also have held on to the tiny thread keeping me connected to him.
You are armed with a wealth of info on how to have a really great relationship, and you are learning to employ honesty and openness with 'new' relationships, be it friends or potential mates. You will fare just fine.
Yes. Yes I will. In fact, yes I AM faring just fine. Thanks, for the acknowledgement/reminder!!
As far as his call the other night, it really just took me by surprise, especially after the email last week from him about how things are 'tense' when we talk. That was, as I suspected, his usual self justification. He didn't WANT to talk because his actions/selfish acts would have been exposed.
It really didn't occur to me that he'd try to get a "fix" from me in any way. I guess I still don't get that.
I doubt that Drac ever really 'suffer' with not having Bugs in his life. He's fully entrenched himself in having made his choices, justified them in his mind, and is sticking to them like glue.
And ya know what? It's neither here nor there for me. Today I feel pretty neutral about it. Maybe he will someday come to the realization and as you say, SL, be willing to pursue me to the ends of the earth. Or maybe not.
Head held high, I move along...
SL, you are a wonderful role model! That's me, or at least that's what I am choosing to think.
I enjoyed my flight yesterday morning to Columbus with an older gentleman in the seat closest to me. He has been married for 43 years. We covered every subject from politics to yes, infidelity. He had some very interesting and thoughtful comments to make. Having just met me, he was very observant, supportive, concerned, and helpful. Suffice it to say, he'd fit in very well here on MB!
Anyway,,,,,it was yet another conversation that continues to help me along on my journey. Another boost to my confidence that my Drac-less life really is a good one filled with hope & promise.
I think that my attitude for a very long time has been to live my life,,,,, but all the while holding back just that little bit. As I said the other day to James, it's a very thin thread that kept me tied to Drac. I kept it there, despite it being so thin it was virtually invisible. I never realized how despite the fact it was thin, it was very very strong. I didn't fully see that it was continuing to pull me DOWN.
I was like a helium balloon tied to a string. Happy in my ability to fly, but not taking full advantage of it because I was tied to Drac.
I'm feeling much more free these days. I have the sensation of slowly rising to fly more freely.
I feel like I am rambling here,,,,,,,,,,,is it making any kind of sense to anyone??
is it making any kind of sense to anyone??
OODLES and OODLES, lady. I'm right there with ya. Have a wonderful weekend!
Thanks, SL!
Sometimes I start typing out my thoughts/feelings and while it's all very honest, I don't know how much sense it makes.
You have a great weekend, too. Any big plans?
Mimi -
Just being REAL with you, hon...
Luv ya...
You know how I COUNT on you to ALWAYS keep it real!!
I luv ya, too!!!
..Applause for you, too, Bugsy...
And this...
Hope it doesn't mess up your lipstick!!
Awwww Mimi! You are too sweet!
No problem on the lipstick - I have the good extended wear on today!
I won't say much more about that, as we don't need BC getting all excited and making comments about girls kissing on my thread!
Now, I am off to get into true Goddess form for my dinner date tonight!
Cheering for you Bugs.. you sound so strong!
I'm cheering for you too, Bugs. I't kind of like watching Shy Di blossom into a Princess. You rock.
And SL, you are on a roll girlfirend. Tell us what you really think!!! You certainly came out of this whole thing sluggin' - woo hoo!
I'm so glad to have both of you as role models. I'm learning that there can be life after WHs......
I'm so glad to have both of you as role models. I'm learning that there can be life after WHs......
and don't forget BELIEVER, Chai...
my H is "IN LOVE" with ME but I keep IMAGES of BELIEVER..and her gentleman caller... in the back of my mind for inspiration...she's closer to "OUR" LOVELY age..
I'm also 54...
Yes Mimi, Believer is another role model for those of us who may never reach recovery as you were fortunate enough to do. I guess we'll reach recovery - just in a different way.
At this point, I can't even imagine a "gentleman" caller, but maybe someday I'll be ready for that. If I don't die first.
At this point, I can't even imagine a "gentleman" caller, but maybe someday I'll be ready for that. If I don't die first.
Chai,
How come you can't IMAGINE? "IMAGINING" is a WONDERFUL coping device!!
Sorry for the T/J Bugs, but Mimi let me tell you why.
After everything that I've learned through this ordeal, some facts and thoughts stick in my head:
1. 75% of second marriages fail, 85%of third, and 96% of 4th!
2. I don't want to be anyones 2nd or 3rd anything
3. I took vows to be married only once
4. Another marriage would bring x-wives, step children, etc.
5. I'm 54. Would have no history with someone else
6. Wouldn't really know their history or background
7. I don't want to be a nurse or a purse.....
So I guess "imagining" brings bad thoughts. Of course, I don't have to get married again. I guess I could just date huh?
Hi Bugs,
It's been a long time girl. I won't say I have been busy, I would say that I have been isolating and avoiding on here and in life in general. I'm tired of suiting up and showing up, and my food has been so out of control. But I don't want to focus on me.
Knowing how much you still hold out hope for Drac, I would have hoped G-d would have given you your prayer and wish. I think it was someone on here who once told me that G-d answers all prayers, sometimes the answer is NO and we don't want that.
You are absolutely amazing in your walk and taking life as it comes. I wish I could be as gracious as you.
Johnstwin mentioned a few weeks ago, she wonders if G-d is protecting us from the WH's. Make you think, doesn't it. They are selfish, sick human beings and we are getting healthier and learning what it takes to create a most amazing relationship.
Drac is STUPID, but he is also not a healthy man and most people have it dead on, he keeps masking or avoiding his pain in other choices but the one true one. His loss for sure, but for you and me, that really isn't any comfort. For us, we just learn to move on and accept life on lifes.
I hope you are having a good weekend and I miss you so much.
7. I don't want to be a nurse or a purse.....
Too funny Chai...
Chai,
75% of second marriages fail, 85%of third, and 96% of 4th!
Yeah, those are the statistics. WE don't have to be a statistic. I'm NOT going to be one, I know THAT!!
I don't want to be anyones 2nd or 3rd anything
And you don't have to be, either. Who said you will?
I took vows to be married only once
So did I. For me it was going to be forever. But it wasn't. I'm not going to let this be a deciding factor for me should I ever decide to get married again. You shouldn't either.
Another marriage would bring x-wives, step children, etc.
Not necessarily. Maybe he will be younger than you. That would be a good thing since we tend to live longer than men.
I'm 54. Would have no history with someone else
Then you MAKE history and memories with another person. You are going to live at least another 50 years, maybe even longer. I'm learning to enjoy getting to know people. I was always really shy. This whole thing really changed that.
Wouldn't really know their history or background
See above. It will be a great adventure!
I don't want to be a nurse or a purse.....
LOL! Well, that's why a young stud is in order.
No worries about being a nurse...and HE would be the purse. Arm candy!! WOO!
Of course, I don't have to get married again. I guess I could just date huh?
No. You don't. I don't see that right now, either. Just can't fathom it. I don't even want to be around any men, except for Shiny, my dance instructor and men in the family.
My professor asked me on the last day of class about my wedding ring. Well, I'm still married; AND, it keeps men away. At least for the most part. If they aren't Pakistani wrecker drivers, anyway! :RollieEyes:
But you know, we are both still married so it's not even something we need to think about at this point in time.
Love & kisses!!
Charlotte
slight t/j...
Hey Chai, did you find the book? I just found out I couldn't ask you on the other thread because it's locked. BIG surprise there, eh?
Charlotte
P.S.) Hi Bugs! Sorry that vampire is still getting under your skin. You know what happens when you invite them in!! (Or in your case, back in!)
Morning everyone.
Honestly, I love the t/j's going on here. It's nice to see discussion about something other than Drac going on here for a change!
Well, my date Friday night went very, very well. It is as if I've turned a bit of a corner with having the more open attitude. We talked for hours and hours. It's really nice to have conversation with someone who is very much interested in me. As Mimi said, to have a gentleman caller.
Chai, DM already addressed most everything I was going to say about your post. I don't want to be a nurse or a purse either. I'm not ready for someone else's kids or ex-wives. The way I'm looking at it is that it doesn't have to be that way and while I'm thinking about those things I'm viewing dating as having the opportunity to interview a lot of different candidates!
We were up almost all night talking, so I didn't get much sleep, so I took most all of yesterday to recover! ha! I haven't done 'nothing' all day for a long time, but that is exactly what I did yesterday.
Well, I did have to go to DSS's football game. I pulled into the parking lot about 12 minutes late and saw DD and Drac just walking towards the field. When I walked up, Drac saw me & told DD I was there. She ran over to me. After hugs & kisses, I took her hand and walked right by where Drac was standing. As we went by I said, we're going to sit down and left him standing there.
At half time we went to get DD a drink at the concession stand. Drac kind of followed, so I let her go with him for him to buy her drink. She came back to me & we started walking back over to the stands. Drac started talking. Telling me about an incident that DSS's best friend had with some older guys. He said he'd called & left messages for the coach 2x that week but had no call back, so he was going up to the school this week to talk to the coach about the friend & to ask about DSS's not getting any playing time. I didn't comment other than something, "Hmm, really?".
I guess it was more of him proving what a great guy/dad he is? Whatever.
DD & I went back to our seats. Drac followed. He sat right by me, but I didn't start any conversation with him. I wasn't that I intentionally ignored him, I just didn't open any conversation. DD and I talked & joked during the game. DSS did get to play a few downs, but didn't do very well. They did win the game. After, DD & I walked over to the side of the field where DSS would walk off so I could say hi. Drac followed (again). After I saw DSS, I gave DD hugs & kisses and went to leave. Drac told me to have a nice weekend. I replied with a "see ya".
I wasn't rude. I wasn't tense. I wasn't nervous. I simply attended a game and ran into someone that I knew, but didn't want to engage in a conversation. Atleast that is how it felt to me.
Just living a Bug's Life. And it's a good one, I think.
DS's first ever football game is today! Your interaction with Drac sounds very similar to how I am with the Z, except I won't be sitting right next to him. I usually show up first and HE sits next to me; I guess he would feel weird otherwise. Who knows?
As for all this talk about dating, well, I'm rarin to go, ladies. I've said it a gazillion times, but I'm ready for amanda huginkiss. I may not hit the jackpot right away, but I KNOW I will again. I'll give you that I'm not in my 50's, but I see two ladies on this board who are older than 30 with their gentlemen callers, very happy, very positive.
As for marrying into a premade family, the likelihood is pretty high for someone my age. That's okay. It's TOUGH for sure, being as I come from one of those families, and know how hard us kids made it.
I don't know if/when I'll ever get married again. I only know that there will be NO CRUMBS associated with it, AT ALL.
I was talking to a girlfriend of mine about my boundaries, that I will not be in a serious relationship with someone who doesn't think to call me if he's running very late or who doesn't consider me at all in his decision making process, because we will have discussed the subject and agreed upon a course of action. She said, "There are some trips that husband goes on and doesn't contact me for three days at a stretch--it's no big deal". My jaw dropped to the floor and I told her she's flirting with disaster. She didn't like that, so I backed down, and just told her about MY boundaries in that particular situation. Her response was "if you put too many WALLS in place like that, you will be alone for a long time" My response "I would rather be alone than with someone who does not value me, and vice versa."
I can't expect her to understand. I only know that I feel better equipped for the time that I am in another serious relationship. My next partner will benefit greatly from my hard earned knowledge.
I know some of you may still be fighting to save your marriage. I'm not, so this is just my take. I never thought I would be itching for the divorce, but I am.
Bugs. SL.
You two are awesome!!! It's just amazing to see how far you two have come, and just since I've been around. Wow.
Me? I was probably just M too long, that's all. I'm sure if I were 15 years younger I would have a totally different attitude. You two are looking at the prime ages of your life, I'm looking at the nursing home.
Bugs, it's funny how I've seen Drac go from not giving a hoot about DS to suddenly becoming the helicopter parent. What's up with that? What a difference a Ho makes....
Charlotte, thanks for the reply. It's just me being "old" and tired I guess. By purse, I really meant $$$, but I guess I could be considered arm candy too - to a 90 year old!!!!
But, I hadn't thought about getting arm candy for me!! It seems that the younger guy/older woman thing is OK these days. But man, I'd sure hate the feeling that I was dating my son.....
Like you, I'm in no rush. I kind of like coming home to my private little space right now. I've even reached a point now where if I was faced with the option to recover, I don't know that I would. The desire isn't quite there like it once was. I've imagined how it would be, and I'm just not sure that I preserved the feelings to make a go of it.
As a matter of fact, my DD again says that her dad is not with OP because OP has another boyfriend. Now, we all know that my DD is not reliable, but it made me MAD. Mad at OP. I wanted to call her and tell her a thing or two about it. How dare she do that after WH destroyed a family, a retirement fund, a future for her. She lost nothing, we lost everything. I was surprised at my reaction this time around. After analyzing it a little, I realized that I may be beyond the will to R.
Time changes things for sure.....
Have a great weekend ladies. I saw Stroke of Genius and it was really a good movie. Who knew? A movie about a windshield wiper.....
Didn't have time to get the book last night, but am getting ready to leave to get it today. It's about 80 here and sunny, so a great day to lay on the deck and read....
Bugs, you mentioned Columbus. If you ever get over this way again let me know. I'll treat you to Starbucks....
You two are looking at the prime ages of your life, I'm looking at the nursing home.
CHAI..OH MY GOD..SPEAK FOR YOURSELF..WE ARE AT THE PRIME AGES OF OUR LIVES!! My goodness..who wants to be raising children and having those monthlies...NOT ME...
Girlfriend, FREE YOURSELF from this MINDSET!!!
Hey SL!
I'm ready for amanda huginkiss.
I didn't think I was ready to be kissed. I was reminded of a movie where the guy asked, "when was the last time you've been thoroughly kissed?" It's been well over a year since a man has kissed me. Well, other than family or friends with a peck on the cheek. It was actually longer than that since I'd been 'thoroughly kissed". It was most excellent, I must say.
"I would rather be alone than with someone who does not value me, and vice versa."
EXACTLY my sentiments.
Chai - Girl how can you think that you aren't in the Prime of your life? It's all in how YOU decide to look at it. As Mimi said, you need to free yourself from that mindset.
I'm looking at the nursing home.
Don't make me come back to Columbus already with the hammer! Stop that Stinkin Thinkin!! :twobyfour:
But, I hadn't thought about getting arm candy for me!! It seems that the younger guy/older woman thing is OK these days. But man, I'd sure hate the feeling that I was dating my son.....
It's only a NUMBER. What matters most if finding someone who is on the same page with you, your goals, your values. While you look to find that someone, don't rule anyone out because of a number. Be open to giving any of them an "interview" opportunity.
V is actually 8 years younger than I am - but I can't think of anyone I've met in recent memory (older or younger) who is more on the same page as I am with everything we've discussed so far. I, for one, was very surprised to realize this.
V & I did talk about my being older than he is. I know that it gave him a moment of pause (he was up front about it). I had my doubts too, as Drac is also younger than me. At one time I thought it was a good thing,,,,then with many things Drac said during the divorce, I started to believe I was "TOO OLD. TOO set in my ways. TOO boring" I then figured out that was all Bullshite justification from Drac.
The important thing is that V & I have decided to take the time to start to get to know each other and put the 'age' thing to the side. Now it doesn't seem to be an issue for either one of us.
Like you, I'm in no rush. I kind of like coming home to my private little space right now.
Most definately with you on that! I love my home and the space/privacy I have here. I'm in no big hurry to change that whatsoever. Although having a gentleman caller here at MY invitation is going to be enjoyable, too.
About this -
Bugs, it's funny how I've seen Drac go from not giving a hoot about DS to suddenly becoming the helicopter parent. What's up with that?
I asked myself the same question. Perhaps he has been much more involved/caring than I've been giving him credit for? If so, then I'm happy that is the case for DSS's sake. It changes nothing else.
I know that I am doing better. Today at church, I prayed for Drac as I always do every day but it felt different. Although in the past I have always tried to pay with the intent of it being for Drac alone,,,,,with my letting go of him to let God deal with him - there has always been an element of it still having a connection with me. That very tiny thread was always there. Today it wasn't.
I've always had the vision of someday being able to be standing there in church with Drac & the kids. All of us together as we should be. Yet, I've known that is a long way off with Drac needing to do so much changing/healing on his own & with God.
While I am most certainly not head over heels for V, I will admit to thinking about him more and I have thought about the potential for a realtionship with him. What came to mind today is that I could totally see V standing there in church with me. It was/is easy to invision. That surprised me.
I will definately let you know next time out in Columbus - - I have a lot of customers there and visit on a fairly regular basis. Nice city!
I'm off to change out of church clothes and mow some grass. Nice weather here today, and I may also get some time to catch some rays this afternoon!
Mimi - - Continue your crusade to show Miss Chai the Goddess Powers that you wield! Fabluous over Fifty! You are the perfect example!!
FABULOUS OVER FIFTY!! I LIKE THAT!!
"when was the last time you've been thoroughly kissed?"
(waving arm madly in the air...)....Ooh!! I got it!! I know the answer to that trivia question!!!!!!! Pick me! Pick me!!
"That Thing You Do"
"You-ooo-ooo.....doin't that thing you doo-ooo-ooo
Breakin' my heart into a million pieces....
Like you always doo-ooo-ooo-ooo.....
And you-ooo-ooo...don't mean to be crue-ooo-ool...
Ya never even knew about the heartache.....
I've been goin' through-ooo-ooo-ooo!!
I try and try to forget you girl,
But it's just so hard to do...
Every time you do that thing you doo-ooo-ooo!"
Yeah, that was when Guy was talking to Faye outside the hotel and the porter was egging them on. LOL!! Awwww...that was cute!
Charlotte
Charlotte wins the prize! Yes, I love that movie (in fact, i just recorded it last night!)
I think it is particularly appropriate for me because of the whole Jimmy/Faye/Guy situation. Faye loves Jimmy with all of her heart to the point of being blind to how totally self centered he is, all the while not noticing what a great man Guy is. Guy sees Faye & appreciates her in every way that Jimmy doesn't. In the end everyone shows their true colors and the best couple ends up together.
I, like Faye, have been allowing my love for Drac and my desire to save my marriage to somewhat blind me to the facts. Yes, I know about Drac's faults & what is necessary for him to ever change, but I didn't let that stop me from continuing to love him and hope for the changes to come. Like Faye, I was willing to accept crumbs while hoping for more. Hoping for a return to the way it was at the beginning - or at least for the chance to work on it.
A small part of me still wants that,,,,,,,,,but the bigger part of me is no longer sitting still waiting for that to happen.
The bigger part of me is now opening my eyes & my mind to see the good in other men. I'm thankful to all of the wonderful MB Guys for helping me to see on a regular basis that there are still a lot of Very Good Guys out there! I am almost certain that I'd be even more jaded about men if we didn't have Chrisner, BC, James, SDGuy, LG, Mark, and so many others here. Thanks guys!
I finished mowing the front yard, but I need to wait for the sun to move into the back yard a bit more before finshing. It's still a little too wet. I have some final pool work I am going to do here in a while.
I will admit to thinking a bit about DD/DSS/Drac today. DD told me that they are going to the zoo today. That was always a special family outing for us. In fact, it was about this time of year that we had our last family zoo outing. Makes me a bit nostalgic. Makes me a bit sad that we're not there together. Fall is absolutely my favorite time of year,,,,,,,,,for some reason I am always in a more romantic frame of mind.
Alas, it is what it is.
I think I'll go sit outside and do some reading while waiting for the sun to move.
Mimi - - I've started my Fabulous phase of life at 40. I fully intend to continue it well into Fabulous Fifty and Sexy Sixty!!
I, like Faye, have been allowing my love for Drac and my desire to save my marriage to somewhat blind me to the facts. Yes, I know about Drac's faults & what is necessary for him to ever change, but I didn't let that stop me from continuing to love him and hope for the changes to come. Like Faye, I was willing to accept crumbs while hoping for more. Hoping for a return to the way it was at the beginning - or at least for the chance to work on it.
Wow Bugs, I think that WH needs to be DRAC 2, no kidding. I absolutely think this is my H and his journey is the same. The only difference is that if WH's A ended, I don't think he would go somewhere else. I think he would eventually come home. But we would be back at the same problem. Is he willing to do the real work for HIMSELF. Forget our M.
And like Drac, I don't know.
We really have such similar stories, I never realized.
Aww Bugsy.. you gone and made me smile on a Monday..
I'm so happy to hear that things went well on your date.
And hey.. with the Autumn romance in the air, be sure to give thanks for V as well.. I'm sure even as you take things slow, having someone who cares around from time to time will help shake the chill that is starting to set in the air.
You sound marvelous Bugs.. keeping you and the kiddos in my prayers.
Morning!
Just had to pop on real quick with a "here's a first" note.
Last night, for the first time, I honestly, totally, completely forgot to have DD call Drac. It did not even occur to me at all until he sent an email at 10 pm.
Now, that may seem strange to you, but it's kind of a big deal to me. You see I don't recall ever forgetting to have her call unless we were out doing something and time simply got away from me. Because I always seemed to be thinking about Drac,,,,,and was very concerned with what he would think or how he would feel if she didn't call.
I'm taking it as a sign that my personal recovery is going better than I may have thought?!?
His email didn't really even bother me. It said, "Any reason for Ladybug not calling me in the evenings these days?"
In the past, it would have bothered me that he was intimating that this happens a lot. It's happened ONCE. I simply replied that we forgot. I added that I didn't understand his comment about it being "evenings", as if it has happened more than just tonight. In the past I would have gone on and on about that and been worried with his thoughts and feelings.
Not this time.
I have more to post later about how Ladybug is feeling about him. Seems she is entering her 'angry' phase with his continued lack of attention when they are together. She called him "a big fat jerk". YIKES!
I gotta run and get her ready for school. I'll try to update later.
Bugs and Ladybugs
Yep.. see it's kinda the reverse in my situation. I call DS every night he's not with me. Way I look at it, it's -my- responsibility to maintain an ongoing relatinship with my kids, not the other way around.
Now it did trigger me when WW would neglect to call in the evenings.. she did for the first 8 months or so of this, but lately she's been not calling... Way I figure it, it's her loss if she decides not to have contact with DS when he's with me.
For example.. she didn't call Saturday at all, and you know what? It didn't seem to bother DS a bit, but he notices I'm sure. He's starting to say things and do things that make it very clear where he wants to be.. where he knows that he comes first and is loved and protected... and just in case there's any question.. it's not with WW.
See.. kids are awful difficult to fool.. they're notoriously perceptive. They use their minds 24-7 to soak up the world around them.. unlike many adults who hit cruise control and are oblivious to a lot of things, and therefore easily duped.
Keep on keepin on.. and I'm sure we'll be ready, and loving, compassionate, and considerate when our kids start getting older and expressing their own opinions about what total douchebags our wayward spouses have become.
Hi Bugs,
I simply replied that we forgot..... In the past I would have gone on and on about that and been worried with his thoughts and feelings.
I agree....definitely a good sign!
Thanks guys!
Yep, kids are hard to fool. Drac certainly isn't fooling Ladybugs. She called him "A big fat jerk" and I almost lost it!
I had to email Drac about changing the schedule for her birthday. i simply said Ladybug asked for a change to the schedule, told him what she wanted, and asked if that would work.
He replied with a long email-
"To tell you the truth, I have been planning life week to week with the amount of work issues I have been up against. I have not been sure of what holidays are whose. The kids & I have been talking about certain plans and I have not confirmed anything because I wasn't sure.
Example, Halloween. Is it your or me this year? Ladybug said she would like to go with us in the new subdivision but I am not even sure how it works in this area. Last year for you I do not believe they had trick or treating on Halloween night.
Also, for Christmas, I would like to plan our vacation and take the kids out of town, something maybe we can discuss in the near future?
To be honest, I never wanted to follow a court ordered piece of paper but hope that we can be fair to one another and the kids so that we both get our time with them. I would like to put the past in the past.
If Ladybug wants to do something different than what is ordered, as far as I am concerned, it is her day and her time. I just want to see her as much as I can"
Now, if this were coming from anyone but Drac, I suppose it would sound a-ok.
But this IS Drac. What do I care about what he is up against at work. What do I care that he doesn't know what the trick or treating nights are in his subdivision? I don't believe him for a minute that he really wants to see her as much as he can. IF that were true, he'd be with her when he does have her time. None of it really matters at this point in time.
In response, I sent him a copy of the holiday schedule. He then wanted to know if I 'felt it best to continue the exact schedule & not discuss any of his questions'.
My reply was simply that the schedule answered most of his questions, such as who has what holidays and that Halloween is not a holiday. It's on his weekend. As for Christmas, Ladybug had told me they are going to Florida. I assumed he'd let me know his plans. I make "our" plans according to the schedule as it just seems the easiest way to go about it. I confirmed the birthday schedule change, asked if it was ok. My only other comment, (and I'm sorry I made it) was I said that I didn't know what he meant about putting the past in the past.
Frankly, I don't know if I care what he meant by that. I am sure he meant it as some kind of olive branch of peace. Another let's be terrific friendly co-parents.
I have to run & pick up Ladybug,,,,I just felt a need to vent a little. I really hate it when he sends these kinds of emails.
Yep, definitely a stab at friendly co-parenting, as in let's forget the A, let's forget the Plan B, blah, blah, blah.
He is quite the piece of work, isn't he?
MARRIAGE..doesn't seem to be that SPECIAL to HIM. It seems like.. in HIS MIND... you used to be his GIRLFRIEND and you broke up....
MARRIAGE..doesn't seem to be that SPECIAL to HIM.
I'm sorry to say that you are right. He just doesn't get it.
He did send a reply that I just read.
"The birthday plan is fine.
About the past in the past,,,,,,My own feelings on that are that we did not communicate very well in the past. I feel we both had very little trust or respect for one another, or at least I feel we did not show it.
And,,you know that I am the worst with emails - both sending and receiving - they leave way too much room for interpretation"
Well, I don't even know if I want to go into my thoughts on that email. Pre-Affair, I trusted him completely. I respected him totally. I don't know if I showed it enough in my actions. Apparently not if he doesn't feel like I trusted or respected him.
However,,,,,,,,,,it seems to me that it is more a statement about the fact that he didn't trust or respect me. I think we can all agree on that as being a fact.
I think he never expected or understood complete trust & respect. His past history and low self esteem contributed that issue a lot.
Ah well, none of it really matters now anyway. For that is "past in the past" for me.
I think about it since he brought it up, but it's not a point I'm dwelling on or worrying about. I've already dealt with most of that on my own personal level. Maybe he's just on the edge of starting to recognize it for himself - I can only hope he chooses to deal with it on his own personal level.
I had another email that was much better. V is on the road, but did email me just to say that he was thinking about me. It was sweet.
I think it's a Self Care night,,,,,,,,,a nice bubble bath may be in order.
My own feelings on that are that we did not communicate very well in the past. I feel we both had very little trust or respect for one another, or at least I feel we did not show it.
It does not matter because it still is NO EXCUSE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR. He is NOT REPENTANT about what he did. He is not SORRY or ASHAMED about what he has done to you and his FAMILY!!
This is "HORRIBLE"...in my view...for him to go into THIS without expressing his SORROW or REGRET and not taking any PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITITY for this TRAGEDY..of you guys having to split up holidays, etc., etc....
YUCK....
Hi Bugs,
...Another let's be terrific friendly co-parents.
I get a lot of this from WS, too...don't 'buy into it', Bugs....it's still only meant to SERVE Drac's needs without consideration to those of his family...yours and kids!
My only other comment, (and I'm sorry I made it) was I said that I didn't know what he meant about putting the past in the past.
Yeah, Bugs... I can see why you would be sorry! those questions may ENCOURAGE Drac to continue to JUSTIFY his actions, and it's not what you want.... better not to ask them in the future.
I know that whenever I need to send WS info. re boys, I 'sit' on them at least half a day to gain some 'objectivity'....to be sure that I only communicate the STRICT minimum...and the emails eventually get reduced to one-two liners.
I suspect it must be painful to see the lack of EFFORT on Drac's part...especially with OP now out of the picture! ..and I am sorry for that, Bugs...although this may be helpful in clearing up some DOUBTS you may have had before...
BUGS
Bugs:
Its been awhile, But I've been reading.
I wanted to drop a perspective on Drac's passage and some thoghts about a response:
About the past in the past,,,,,,My own feelings on that are that we did not communicate very well in the past. I feel we both had very little trust or respect for one another, or at least I feel we did not show it.
And,,you know that I am the worst with emails - both sending and receiving - they leave way too much room for interpretation"
"We did not communicate well in the past"
Drac, of course not. I've learned alot about me and the way I handled things since that day that you met Amy. The reflection this caused in me as to how I got to this point in my marriage has been a profound one. I feel that I will be communicating with whoever I meet in the future in profoundly better ways.
"I feel we both had very little trust or respect"
Drac, I trusted you, and believed in you. In some ways, which I have learned since you left, I did not express that as well as a should have. I wanted our relationship to work, and our wonderful daughter and your terrific son brought so much more to the table then I ever knew to expect. I'm a strong person, but with the birth of Ladybug, many of those strengh that I thought I had were tested. I struggled to find my way thorugh that time, and really did not credit you with the strenghs that you had learned over the years with your son. Many things flowed from that disconnect resulting in the feelings of trust and respect. I better appreciate the contributions that both parents can make. And how those contributions are complimentary, and not contradictory.
"or at least I feel we did not show it."
No, we didn't. We still really do not know how. I have learned much. I will practice these new methods I have learned. I recognize many things that I was doing, that I thought were "right" and just did not realize the effect that they would have on you. I have learned to recognize these patterns. I have learned new ways to act and react.
"they leave way too much room for interpretation"
Yes, they do, but it is the only way, that we can continue to exchange information. It has to be this way due to your choices. You chose Amy. You chose divorce. You chose this lifestyle. Is it impacting the children? Yes. You want me to be available and friendly in our interactions, whether it is about the kids or something else. Due to your choices, I have choices as well. One of the choices I have made is that I am willing to exchange information regarding Ladybug and DSS as needed. I am not available to be a friendly co-parent. I will not be interested in drawing outside of those lines. I was and could have been, but you have made it clear what role you want me to have in your life.
In my letter to you in July 2007 (plan B letter) I outlined my love for you and a road map to possible reconciliation. That is still possible. If not, then I accept my role as the mother of Ladybug and ex-stepmom of DSS. You do not have to like these conditions. But those are choices that I have made to protect myself. You have and continue to make yours. Please respect mine.
The past is past indeed. I thought that maybe after some of this was cleaned up, that the man I once knew could return and with the new knowledge that I have learned, that we could have created a new and better relationship. Your right, what's past is past. It could have been so much better. My future will be.
And, just to be clear. I DO respect your choices. I DO NOT agree with some of them, just like you DO NOT like some of mine. But the time for negotiation and resolution of those choices passed when we divorced. This is world we live in NOW.
LG
LG,
...just needed you to know that, although your last post is for Bugs' benefit, it is a great example of what 'communication' is all about to many of us 'lurkers', and is a measure of how far you have come in your own personal journey.
Thanks.
But the time for negotiation and resolution of those choices passed when we divorced. This is world we live in NOW.
...this sounds like Bugs has closed the door, and I am not sure she has....have you Bugs? ...and not sure Drac is READY to HEAR anything yet!
LG...although I totally agree that changes need to be made by both spouses, betrayed and wayward, to me, your "letter" sounded more like all the problems of bug's preA marriage were due to her, except for the A.
And this...
that the man I once knew could return and with the new knowledge that I have learned,
just sounds like all Drac has to do is show up and Bugs will do the rest. JMO.
Although I know that is not true...I would wonder if that is how Drac would read it.
Hey LG!
That's some really good stuff. I'm not sending it, but am keeping it for reference. Perhaps in the near future I'll use it. I did respond in a similiar fashion, but it was much more brief. I had typed out my own version of what you posted yesterday with the thought of perhaps giving it to him if it seemed the right opportunity.
Yesterday I stopped by the main office for some supplies. They were hosting a "Customer Service Appreciation" breakfast. I stopped in and saw LOTS of folks I don't always get to see. It was fun,,,,,,,,,,,and I was looking especially FABULOUS if I do say so myself. New, fitted, shorter dress with Goddess high heels! I received several compliments and was feeling pretty good about myself by the time I left there.
I went over to my building and was in my office working. Outside of my office is an open conference/meeting room area that I have to walk through to get to the kitchen. The building I am in is a 'training' center. There were a few guys in there that morning.
I walked out later for a soda & as I rounded the corner I caught out of the corner of my eye that someone else was sitting there. I turned and see it is Drac. I about stumbled over my own feet. I said hello and kept walking. I didn't know what else to do and they were in the middle of training so it would have been disruptive to say more. Thank goodness. I got my soda and walked back through without looking or speaking again.
He apparently spent some time talking with one of the guys and then left. My office door was closed so I did not see him again. Although it did trigger me a bit, it wasn't totally disruptive to my day.
Last night I was home and just going to start getting ready to go out to dinner. I had been on the phone w/V when Drac called & left a vm. I checked it after my call - Drac said he'd "totally spaced" and forgot to tell me that DSS was in the Homecoming parade that was getting ready to start in about an hour!! They were on their way to drop DSS off at the school!!??!!
UGH!
So I called him back to get the details when/where. He had Ladybug answer the phone - apparently he was on his other phone as I heard him say, "I gotta go, Bugs is on the other line, thanks, Hon" Don't know who/what that was about but at least he got off to talk to me. He gave me the "I'm sorry I totally forgot about this". I just asked "what's the story, what's the deal?". He started to explain to me what a Homecoming parade is and how he really had no idea how it works, but it apparently is a big deal in his town. DUH!! I asked for specific time & place. He didn't know the time other than what time he was to drop off DSS. He told me the parade route, and where he & Ladybug were sitting "if you can make it, that's where we are".
So, I called V and asked him if it would be ok to meet me there. He agreed right away. I flew outta the house and raced over there. Had to take back streets and was able to park and see the tail end of the parade. I didn't go by where Drac & Ladybug said they were sitting. The parade had already had passed by there anyway.
V didn't make it so we agreed to meet at a restaurant close by. As I was driving, I see Drac pass me going the other way. I wasn't sure it was him, but then I see that he has circled around the block (FAST), and we met at a 4 way stop. It was his turn to go,,,and he took his time. I was on the phone, so I acted as if I didn't see it was him. We went the same route for a while with me behind him, but then I turned off to go meet V.
Had a nice dinner and came home for some nice conversation. I'm afraid V is still a bit more into this being more than casual dating than I am, so we talked about it so that he is clear where I stand.
I called Ladybug on my way home from dinner, as she had not called & it was getting late. Talked to DSS who was really pumped up after the parade. It was great to hear him so excited about something!! I made sure that he knew I'd made it over to the parade to see him, even though he didn't see me. In fact, that was the only reason I hustled over there - so that DSS would know I came to see him.
When getting ready to go to bed, I see an email from Drac. Asking about a note in her bag re:parent/teacher conference and 'sharing' Ladybugs thoughts about her teacher. She doesn't like her teacher because she is extremely strict. He ended with "Just wanted to let you know".
Funny, he sent the email at the same time Ladybug should have called me, but he didn't make sure that she called. He 'thought I should know' the minor stuff about DD & her teacher, but he waits until he is on his way to the parade to let me know about it? WTF?
I see no remorse on his end except for his 'regret' that things are not easy for him, and that seems to be his motivation for everything he does.
Sorry, not my job to make it easy for him. I have better things to do with my time.
Speaking of which, I'd better get to work!! Sorry for the long, boring details, but I think it helps to show that IMVHO Drac just isn't anywhere close to being able to hear any of what you posted LG. If I thought he was, I'd have it hand delivered to him within an hour.
Unless that changes, I just keep right on keeping on with my Bugs Life.
Hi Bugs,
Sorry for the long, boring details, but I think it helps to show that IMVHO Drac just isn't anywhere close to being able to hear any of what you posted LG. If I thought he was, I'd have it hand delivered to him within an hour.
I agree....don't think Drac is ready to 'hear it' yet...
...and on the contrary, thank you for all the details and in so doing giving us a 'bird's eye view' of your life and allowing us to be a part of it.
Speaking of which, I'd better get to work!!
...yeah, right...uhmmmm...me, too
Hey Bugs. Glad to hear that you aren't letting it get you down too much.
My cousin commented to me that "there is no love like a new love." He says too many men keep chasing the new love, and it sounds like Drac falls into that category. Trouble is, the new love turns old at some point and the cycle starts again. UGH.
You are doing great girlfriend.
I'm taking it as a sign that my personal recovery is going better than I may have thought?!?
Yes, I think your personal recovery is going pretty well.
If you continue on your current path, however, I see a big anger phase coming on. Maybe that's okay and will probably have to happen at some point, but if you give in to it now, I think it may doom any chance at recovery you have left. Again, maybe that's not important to you.
My recommendation is that you go dark again. Maybe you have to explain it to Drac the way LG spelled it out (I warmed up to you again because I thought recovery might be in the offing, but you didn't seem to want it; recovery is still possible, but absent that I'm not interested in being a friendly co-parent, so we're dark again).
There are a lot of reasons to be dark. Protect him from your anger. Protect yourself from his stupid waywardness. Cut him off from Bugs-fixes--and yes, I think these are important to him now. You gave him a glimpse of how things could be. Now shut it down.
Plus, you don't want to let Drac spill over into your dating life. I'm happy that it's going well. And a bit jealous.
(((Bugs)))
Thanks Ladies for the kind words.
I responded briefly mid morning to Drac's email. Simply stated that the conference note was a reminder for me. I did ask if he had gotten the order form for DD's picture day which is tomorrow. Not that I care about him getting pictures,,,I just wanted to be sure the he dresses her appropriately & does her hair.
His response (i can even 'hear' the sweet/joking tone of his voice in this email)
Ain't I the lucky one? Yes, I got the form. She said you told her that I should choose the pose. As if she would give me a choice
I sent it with her to turn in today
We got DSS's football pictures yesterday. I will make sure to get them to you. I have plans to go out with X(one of his management employees) Friday night. Would you be able to take DSS and get him to the football bus Saturday a.m.?
My immediate response??
WHY oh WHY does he do things like act like Mr. Friendly guy with the joking & sharing. AND telling me WHO he is going out with?? Like I'm supposed to care or believe he's going out with a co-worker??? He's certainly not letting me know about every Sat he has the kids & dumping them at a sitter - why bother telling me this today? Something is up and I'm a bit nervous about it,,,,,,,,,,,,,am waiting for a shoe to drop I guess.
Although, pretty much every other time he has started being this kind of friendly, I lunged at the gerbil. I responded with coming out into the light and opening myself up.
Is this some kind of bait? If so, I'm not taking it. We've all seen what happens then, haven't we.
Or perhaps I'm just 'reading' too much into it all (again). It's probably just he doesn't want to have DSS tonight. Nothing more or less than the usual selfish acts of Drac.
Bugsy.. dearheart..
There's only one reason he sends you these kinds of messages..
It's simple my dear.. you set your boundaries and enforce them.
Stop responding to this crap.. go dark again.
If something so simple as this gets under your skin.. you need to protect yourself from him again.
You're not his 'for free babysitter for DSS' either.. the man needs to be responsible for himself and his son.
Stop enabling him to hurt you.
Yeah I know... hello kettle.. I'm pot.
Hey SD!
Looks like we were posting at the same time.
I've really shut down the fixes for Drac. Other than seeing him at last Saturday's game (where I pretty much ignored him) and his suprising me at my office, we haven't seen each other. I've most certainly cut back to Plan B communication tactics with the exception of having to call due to the timeframe of last night's parade. Even then, I kept the conversation short & direct to the point.
I wonder about the anger phase you mention. I would like to think I'm past that. I have visited it off & on for so long, it just doesn't feel like there's any of it left, at least in regards to recovery. The rare times I feel a flare of anger these days is in direct correlation to his treatment of the kids.
I'm keeping my responses to a minimum. We will see if his friendly attitude persists this time - especially since I refuse to lunge at that gerbil. If it continues, then the LG response may be appropriate.
No, I definitely do not want Drac 'spilling over' into my dating life. Don't be too jealous,,,,,,,,,,dating has it's whole host of challenges and I sometimes question my ability/readiness to deal with them!
It's good to see you back today - you've already had a lot of very good posts to everyone!! If you are up to it, give us an update about you. If you're not up to it, we understand & are just happy to have your input!
a sure sign of lying?
providing too many unnecessary details designed to reassure.
Hey Mr. Pot!!
Honestly while I posted a great deal about it, I'm not flustered like I used to me.
It's a less emotional "WTF?" kind of response.
I should point out (although I am the last one to defend Drac), that this weekend is MY weekend. He's been keeping DSS on Friday nights & taking him to the football bus because it's early in the morning & they are 5 minutes from school and I am 20 minutes away.
BTW - I haven't even responded to his email !
I'll get around to it later,,,,,,,,,,,with a real long response such as "OK"
a sure sign of lying?
providing too many unnecessary details designed to reassure.
Exactly my thoughts!
But to what end? Reassure me of what? and why?
That's what I don't get
backup plan
'cause things are "easier" for Drac when Bugs is nice.
To buy your cooperation.
Because you are more likely to "help" with his obligations if its not to accomodate his dating.
Cuz he know this won't fly:
"hey bugs, I have a hot date Friday nite, can you take
whats-his-name to football?"
I'll get around to it later,,,,,,,,,,,with a real long response such as "OK"
Ah Foxxy,,,,, you certainly know how to explain that "Wayward Sweet Talk" to me!
Being his backup plan - WOW now that make a woman sit up and take notice! ha!
I certainly see that the end game is for HIS life to be easier.
I guess for me, it would make more sense to just say "I have plans"
without ANY detail. I don't provide any to him about my life.
BUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,by providing the detail he is acknowledging that I might still care enough to be hurt ???
OR
as he probably views it "am bitter" and would react badly.
Bottom line - - It's all about Drac.
Bottom line - - It's all about Drac.
Yes Bugs, it IS all about him. I'm sure he has his Match.com date lined up and doesn't want you to know about it. You might not be so cooperative in that case.
Please remove this man from the light.
He's still a fogged-out wayward, so who knows what he's thinking? Maybe he'll always be that way, or maybe he'll really hit bottom. Who knows?
So you've cut down on the fixes, but does he know why? Recall that men can be pretty thick-headed, to say nothing of Wayward Men. I, for one, am capable of some pretty impressive cluelessness, and I'm not even wayward.
I think that there is probably value in spelling it out for him, just to be sure. Restate the rules for him and lay the groundwork to tell him at some point "I would have been your wife; I am the mother of your child. I am not your friend. I don't care what your plans are" if you decide you want to down the road.
These little tidbits aren't doing you any good.
I certainly see that the end game is for HIS life to be easier.
I guess for me, it would make more sense to just say "I have plans"
without ANY detail. I don't provide any to him about my life.
BUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,by providing the detail he is acknowledging that I might still care enough to be hurt ???
OR
as he probably views it "am bitter" and would react badly.
This speculation doesn't help you. It's what Plan B protects you from. Dark again, and think about telling him why.
I'll post an update pretty soon. Nothing much is going on, though.
These little tidbits aren't doing you any good.
:I certainly see that the end game is for HIS life to be easier.
I guess for me, it would make more sense to just say "I have plans"
without ANY detail. I don't provide any to him about my life.
BUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,by providing the detail he is acknowledging that I might still care enough to be hurt ???
OR
as he probably views it "am bitter" and would react badly.
Actually I rather enjoyed it. It reminded me of Vizzini.
"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE POISON IS!
You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha........."[Vizzini stops suddenly, and falls dead to the right]
never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha........."[Vizzini stops suddenly, and falls dead to the right]
Thank God I'm mostly German so this most certainly can not happen to me. ha ha ha ha ha!
:crosseyedcrazy:
Where do you come up with this stuff, Chris? You are killing me!!
Seriously, point taken.
Bugs gives herself a couple :twobyfour: :twobyfour:
These little tidbits aren't doing you any good.
:I certainly see that the end game is for HIS life to be easier.
I guess for me, it would make more sense to just say "I have plans"
without ANY detail. I don't provide any to him about my life.
BUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,by providing the detail he is acknowledging that I might still care enough to be hurt ???
OR
as he probably views it "am bitter" and would react badly.
Actually I rather enjoyed it. It reminded me of Vizzini.
"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE POISON IS!
You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha........."[Vizzini stops suddenly, and falls dead to the right]
Inconcievable!!!!
What DOES that word mean? I thought I had this problem until Ladybug came along!
My phone rang at 5:15. Drac. I was on the phone. Went to vm.
He wanted me to put Ladybug's dance shoes out front, "text me back".
Too funny - - it's as if he is Plan B'ing me with those kind of comments.
Further, he's assuming I'd be home to do that for him.
I sent TM "dance bag is at your house"
The truth is last week when I took her we had to use her old shoes since she left the bag at his house. I could have called or gone by or texted him last week about it, but figured it wasn't worth the hassle/interaction.
I should go to the store tonight for weekend groceries & pet food. I'm not really in the mood. I think instead it will be a Bugs night. A friend was supposed to come over, but had to help her daughter with her car.
I'm thinking some carry out Italian, nice bubble bath, a couple of good glasses of wine, a movie, and early to bed.
Now,,,,,,,,,,,who can I call for delivery??????????
Maybe you should call Drac.. seeing as he's stopping by and all.. have him pick you up something on the way.. make sure to leave a tip like...
don't pick up any wooden nickles..
I'm thinking some carry out Italian, nice bubble bath, a couple of good glasses of wine, a movie, and early to bed.
If none of the above is familiar to you, Bugs, the movie needs to be "The Princess Bride."
Bugs,
Just dropping by to say HI.
I am only good for support...today!
...caught a thread from CL asking for link to '31 reasons to stop an affair', so I checked out.
Inspite of the warning: "book is written to the person who has committed the betrayal...If you are the betrayed spouse....danger of reading on is twofold..."
...yes...curiosity killed this cat... :crosseyedcrazy:
...uhmmm....maybe I do have some ADVICE to give - author is RIGHT: it's best for BS NOT to read on...
...there is nothing we don't already know....it's just good for POKING at a wound that's already DEEP enough! :RollieEyes:
I'm thinking some carry out Italian, nice bubble bath, a couple of good glasses of wine, a movie, and early to bed.
...your PLAN for last night sounds much better! ...hope it worked out.
...going off to figure out how to get my day back on...TRACK!
Looks like Bugs had too much Italian food and wine last night.
Where are you Bugs???
Sorry if I helped rubbish your day Luna
Cue overly compressed and bass driven music... slap is good, but Pastorius and Wooten are far to classy for this gig..
Horns are good, but only if there's bad 70's haridos and overgrown lawns afoot.
Pizza would be just as nice though..
I'm sure Bugsy's just sleeping it off..
Bom Chickiee Bom Bom music,,,,,,,
Sorry ya'll to disappoint, but my evening held exactly and ONLY exactly what I said,,,,no "special" deliveries or delivery 'boys'. Should I mention that I "did" have a date Wed. night?!!??
I love you guys!
You crack me up!
So, I was tied up all day with work. Then tonight I am on my way to pick up DSS when I get text message from Drac.
Ask DSS about his grades if he doesn't bring it up
I spent about a .5 seconds thinking about it and then after oh,,,,,30 minutes, I replied "ok".
That was tough - NOT!
Turns out DSS is flunking English. You might ask, "WHY is DSS flunking English?"
I'm so glad you asked!
Not because he 'can't' do the work. Nor is the work too difficult for him. He has missing and/or late work. This has been a daily, weekly, struggle for DSS since the first grade. Do I sound surprised?? No???? Why??? Because no one is keeping up with him daily!! DUH!
So when I asked DSS what his dad said - - the reply was "He'd deal with me when I get home Sunday"
What???
Whatever.
I'm dealing with it by yet AGAIN working through different options on how to get organized,,,searching for the 'key' to what works for DSS to get the work he can do and does do turned in. I can only do so much,,,but I'll do what I can.
So, Ladybug has a friend over, which gave me & DSS one on one time,,,which was good. He is (I think), a lonely child. He spends way too much time alone or with is one & only friend. I hate it. It makes me so sad. But what to do? Only the best I can.
Thanks for making my thread entertaining while I took a few hours off! haha!
If only my life could be like one of those movies,,,,,where the hot pool boy just can't control himself,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Darn! I have children home! I'd better finish watching Harry Potter (for the 200th time)!
BTW - SD, i turned the tv on tonight and JUST missed the end of the Princess Bride! I laughed out loud~ I'm going to find when it is playing next & record it. I can't believe I've never watched it!
Princess Bride is must-see, Bugsy. You won't regret it.
Bugsy:
Between "delivery boys" and being "tied up at work"
It sounds like your making one of those movies about the pool boy.
But you still only get to clean your own pool.... :RollieEyes:
DSS is in a tough spot. YOU can and WILL do what needs to be done to make surethat his homework, etc gets done.
Not much you can do one night a week and every other weekend.
And YES, you could do more, and make a REAL difference in DSS life. But anything you would do would be considered an insult by Drac because you shine a light, once again, on what he ISN'T doing and the affects on others that his choices are making.
And DSS may be using these assignments to try and get Drac to "NOTICE HIM" Years ago, DSS may have learned that if he did poorly in a subject, Dad would start paying some attention. Anything to get some attention, right? Could be very bad indicators for the future.
And BTW, the TM from Drac about the grades was his plea for you to "do SOMETHING" Because he is incapable. Your desire to remain a presence in DSS life may end up being one of the most emotional draining aspects of this divorce from Drac.
Drac WILL NEVER find anyone who's going to provide him with assistance for DSS like you are capable of. DSS is too old to form any attachments to other women in Drac's life even if Drac does settle down with someone for thirty years. That window closed for DSS at about age 12-13. You were lucky when you got in. But it may just end up tearing you up.
Drac can one day just be reduced to TM's and VM's regarding pick-ups and drop-off's. "Where are the shoes", etc. Nothing more. But DSS sliding into the morass because of Drac's inattention is just criminal.
(((Bugsy))
LG
DSS sliding into the morass because of Drac's inattention is just criminal.
100% right on.
And DSS may be using these assignments to try and get Drac to "NOTICE HIM" Years ago, DSS may have learned that if he did poorly in a subject, Dad would start paying some attention. Anything to get some attention, right? Could be very bad indicators for the future.
I've thought this several times since they left & think there is definitely something to the idea. DSS told me today that he only started football "because I thought it would make him happy. It's not really my thing. Now with my grades he's really not happy & he thinks I should just quit football" I explained that he needed to tell his dad how he feels - that BOTH kids need to start doing that, but I understand how hard that is for him to do. I still tried to encourage it.
This is one of my remaining dilemas. Do I share this kind of thing with Drac or not? Here are my reasons for not - 1. Drac would confront DSS about it, thus damaging DSS's confidence in sharing with me. 2. If confronted, DSS may not tell him the truth 3. Would it matter or merely be Bugs interfering again?
Drac called this a.m. while we were on the way to DSS's game. I let Ladybug answer. He needed directions to the game. He used the 'opening' to bring up DSS's grades. I got to hear about how he goes over with him every night every class and what homework he has. "The problem is that DSS is not turning in the work."
And BTW, the TM from Drac about the grades was his plea for you to "do SOMETHING" Because he is incapable. Your desire to remain a presence in DSS life may end up being one of the most emotional draining aspects of this divorce from Drac.
Do you really think he is wanting me to do something? After the 'mind your own business' communications from not so long ago? And you are right,,,,my remaining a part of DSS's life is going to tear me up (at least time to time), but I view it as just part of being a Mom.
Our 'communication' this week has been strictly email/text. Until this morning, when he calls as we are on the way to DSS's game. I let Ladybug answer,,,,,,,,he needed directions to the game! UGH!
He asked if I'd talked to DSS about his grades. I said yes. He went on to tell me the discussion he'd had with DSS. How it's come time that DSS needs to realize he can't make it all up at the last minute & that he has to start taking responsibility on his own for getting the work turned in. And he's right - but there's more to it than just DSS doing his part. This does not releave him of his responsibility to be sure DSS's work is getting done on a regular basis.
He wanted to know what kind of talk I'd had with DSS. I said was very similiar, but I also included the fact that (as Drac even said), we have worked on this every year with him since kindergarten, and tried every different kind of organizational ideas we can think of,,,,,,,,,,,but DSS has to start USING one of them. Only HE can DO this, but I'm here to help. I told DSS 'the height of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting to get a different result".
I told Drac that I don't have a magic answer. I just let Drac talk. He told me what his 'punishment' is going to be & why he picked it. I merely said, "ok". I did make the point to say, "You deal with him every day,,,,I only get every other weekend" (As I am sure you recall, this was one of the stabs Drac made at me last time I tried to help with DSS. I probably should not have said that, but couldn't help myself.)
I really didn't actively participate in the conversation unless Drac asked me a question, which I answered briefly and to the point. We ended the call as we had arrived at the game.
He called again a few minutes later,,,,needed clarification on the directions, and asked me to "save him a seat". I didn't reply to that. He came & sat with us. Ladybug and her friend between us, which was perfect. They went to go play & it was just us.
He brought up wanting DSS to go to the Homecoming dance tonight & wanted to know if DSS said anything. I replied, "he doesn't want to go".
He brought up the Homecoming parade & started telling me about it. I replied, "Yes, I know, I was there.". He looked startled and said, "oh so you made it". "yes"
He brought up Ladybugs picture day - did she tell me about it? How crabby she was,,,,but she would only tell him she was tired. He said he knew she didn't like the pants he made her wear,,,"could she have been that unhappy just about the pants?" My answer, "yes"
Did the kids tell me about how Halloween works in their neighborhood? My reply, "no". He went on to tell me all about it,,,,and ask about my neighborhood. My reply, "I don't know yet. I'll find out"
He said he's getting the puppy they've been talking about. That the owners are taking it for it's shots and then he can pick it up,,,,would it be ok to call Ladybug about it? I said ok. He says "well, I didn't know what plans you all might have & I don't want to interrupt anything" WHAT?
I simply replied that he can call his daughter any time he likes (that is nothing new). He looked/acted surprised.
I wasn't snippy or hateful, just doing my Joe Friday imitation the entire time. I was also responding to text messages from V during the game, too.
So, it was a horrible game. They were totally outmatched by a Great team. They lost 55-14. Drac was saying his goodbyes to Ladybugs, and made sure to mention where he is going tonight & why. (his BF's wife's birthday party). He left before DSS even came over by the fence, which did surprise me. I figured he'd stay to say hello but he didn't.
Frankly, to my surprise, none of this really bothered me. I'm able to look at him and the biggest thought I have is "What an alien".
So, the kids and I took DSS back to drop his gear at school. Did a quick trip to the store. Home for some lunch. Going to work outside this afternoon.
DSS & I are getting along great. He just needs/wants/deserves some one on one attention. I think sometimes he gets more of that from Drac that he used to,,,,but still not nearly enough.
Not much I can do about any of that. I can only control what happens when he's here. It's HARD & FRUSTRATING, but it is what it is. I just keep praying for the best for him when I'm not there.
LG, , I don't know how I'd feel about DSS forming an attachment to another woman. I tend to believe that you are right,,,it's past time for that to be able to happen. It would hurt me, but if it would help DSS is some way, I'd try to look past myself in that sitch. I doubt there's any really qualified candidates in the string of match.com dates, so I'm won't be wasting many brain cells thinking more about it.
Hope you are having a good weekend!
Hi Bugs,
I am sure whatever attention you give DSS and concern you show for him does and will make a difference in his life...
....We ended the call as we had arrived at the game...He called again a few minutes later,,,,needed clarification on the directions, and asked me to "save him a seat". I didn't reply to that. He came & sat with us.
Bugs...Drac could be interpreting this as you being open to 'friendly co-parenting'....are you considering it?
I did make the point to say, "You deal with him every day,,,,I only get every other weekend" (As I am sure you recall, this was one of the stabs Drac made at me last time I tried to help with DSS. I probably should not have said that, but couldn't help myself.)
Why do you think you shouldn't have said this? It's THE TRUTH. This was bugging me from the beginning as I read this. THE TRUTH is that YOUR INFLUENCE is LIMITED by THE DIVORCE which was the RESULT of DRAC'S AFFAIR. DENIAL of THIS TRUTH seems to continue to occur. It is part of the rewrite of history that Drac SEEMS to want you to buy into....
I wasn't snippy or hateful, just doing my Joe Friday imitation the entire time. I was also responding to text messages from V during the game, too.
GREAT!!!
Frankly, to my surprise, none of this really bothered me. I'm able to look at him and the biggest thought I have is "What an alien".
GREAT AGAIN!! BUT...oh oh...LOVE BANK starting to run on empty...'cause of continued CONTACT with this ALIEN BEING...
Not much I can do about any of that. I can only control what happens when he's here. It's HARD & FRUSTRATING, but it is what it is. I just keep praying for the best for him when I'm not there.
EXACTLY..as I said before about THE TRUTH...
I doubt there's any really qualified candidates in the string of match.com dates, so I'm won't be wasting many brain cells thinking more about it.
LOL..You are SOOOO still one of MY GIRLS...YOU'RE BACK up on the horse...
Luv ya!!
Bugs,
GREAT AGAIN!! BUT...oh oh...LOVE BANK starting to run on empty...'cause of continued CONTACT with this ALIEN BEING...
What I wanted to say, Bugs...MIMI is saying it better!
...because if you are open to 'friendly co-parenting', I am thinking, the LOVEBANK must be getting really LOW given your contact with ALIEN! :RollieEyes:
Bugs,
Yeah, I see it too. When I look at your sitch, I really see the logic of Plan B. I can see him starting to wear on you.
You are doing great!
Bugs:
Hit the spot on DSS, Huh?
How about this next time:
Drac: Hey, thanks for the directions! I'll be in the stadium in five minutes, save me a seat!
Bugsy: Why?
Drac: ????!!!!!?????
Bugsy: Silence........
Drac: What do you mean?
Bugsy: Drac, it's a big stadium, choose wisely.
Plan Bugs seems to be.....
Working? Don't notice that he hasn't called Ladybugs... Seeing him doesn't draw the same reaction....etc...
Not Working... Drac calls and wants to chat? DSS, Ladybugs, his weekend plans, ease my pain....etc.
Open or close? Plan Beige or Plan Darkness?
Was he successful on match.com last night? Then he can get Plan darkness, but if not, he looking for more BUGSY! ANd he gets it.
You by far have traveled one of the toughest roads here.
Somehow, someway, you think that Drac may return to normal, and you may restore your marriage. And of many of the killer B's, I think you have the best shot.
BUT YOU NEED TO PUT THIS ON HIM.
As I stated in my letter. He throws you these things as a lifeline and sometimes they are picked up, sometimes they are ignored and other times jerked a few times. And yes, his matchdotcom activities control how he acts with you too. Sometimes you get DRAC and sometimes K.
Therefore my letter I proposed earlier. You can either PUT IT ON HIM, clearly, and then when you say the things that Mimi highlights as wonderful, or that I propose in this post, HE KNOWS what he has to do. Enforce your boundaries, Bugs.
If ONE DAY he looked you in the eye now that he has de-fogged somewhat, and simply stated that there is NO WAY you two could ever remarry, then you could really get off the merry-go-round.
And yes, you will slide into a friendly co-parenting role. Accept that. Because conflict is bad for you your physical well-being as well. And there are somethings that just evolve. As the kids get older, the need to communicate directly with Drac diminishs greatly. But you don't have to be his buddy. You don't have to sit next to him at school activities.
He WANTS you to. It's MORE NORMAL. But you DON'T HAVE TO.
Your roller-coaster. I'm sorry you got stuck with that ticket. I want to help you minimize the hills. ANd I think that Drac is close to stepping into the car with you. I really do. But he's still just one pretty eye-lashed woman away from getting in. That hasn't changed. HE is not focused on the goal of BUGS yet. Yes, he's focused on WINNING, and I think that he will persue you till he WINS, but he always willing to lay down arms in this campaign and persue other theatres of activity if they present themselves.
LG
I think that Drac is close to stepping into the car with you. I really do
This is where you and I disagree, LG. He is such a RENTER. I see him as wanting Bugs to have a POSITION in his HAREM...in the FRIENDLY COPARENT POSITION. He has KEPT her in THAT POSITION and wants her in THAT POSITION, pursuing his other options on match.com.
He has had EVERY OPPORTUNITY to make a PLAY for BUGS while KNOWING that she would probably take him up on a ROMANTIC PLAY. He does not seem to be a ONE WOMAN sort of guy, IMO. He can CHANGE for sure but what is his MOTIVATION? He does not want to change. He is not SUFFERING ANY PAIN.
I used to see him as being like my husband and WANTED to see him that way. Bugsy is a lot like me in being a MICROMANAGER for Drac...Directions to the game, scheduling, etc.... and, yes, my husband loves me for THAT, too...BUT, my H also came back because he was IN LOVE with ME. He wanted me as his LIFE PARTNER in ALL ASPECTS..not in ONE ROLE in which I do a GREAT JOB for him. Even to this day, I HATE IT when I FEEL LIKE he is PRIMARILY "USING" me for that. I FEEL LIKE HE IS "USING" me for that NOW when he is NOT...but that's leftover stuff and my issue...
IMO, Drac CONTINUES to try to PLAY BUGSY..get his CAKE and EAT IT TOO..and the more he does this and she complies, the more that she is upfront experiencing that he is doing this and she complies (which is DECREASING), THE MORE her LOVEBANK empties and THE MORE she ENABLES Drac's way of BEING....
In your mind, LG, if you care to answer, what has kept DRAC from flat out asking Bugsy for some? Of course, she would say NO but him being the MATCH.COM PLAYER that he is, he could have approached BUGSY by now. This is where he is different than my H. After breaking up with the OW, he would have HIT ON ME right away..well, he was trying to do it at the same time he was with her..and would have done that FOREVER... which is why I went into PLAN B in the first place...
I think BUGSY knows this and is FEELING and SENSING Drac's REJECTION of her as HIS WOMAN....
He keeps trying to PUT HER IN HER PLACE...COPARENT...
How HURTFUL and REJECTING to GODDESS BUGSY in all her FABULOCITY...
I guarantee you she is sitting there in FULL GODDESS MODE...and he JUST talks to her about PARENTING...YUCK...
LG,
You are right in that this needs to sit firmly in Drac's court. Yes, he may look me right in the eye & say it's done forever. In fact, I am certain that is where it will go. Thus, my own reluctance to bring this to that point???????
About this, though -
HE is not focused on the goal of BUGS yet. Yes, he's focused on WINNING, and I think that he will persue you till he WINS, but he always willing to lay down arms in this campaign and persue other theatres of activity if they present themselves.
I understand that part about his focus being on other opportunities, but I'm not seeing/understanding what you mean about his pursuit of me? What is it that he is trying to WIN? My compliance with being the friendly co-parent?
In your mind, LG, if you care to answer, what has kept DRAC from flat out asking Bugsy for some?
I think I can venture some fairly accurate ideas on this. It is most likely because 1. Drac knows that should he do that, I have expectations that he is not willing/capable of living up to. 2. By doing so, he would be admitting that perhaps he was wrong in all of his actions over the last year and a half - that I am not nearly the horrible witch in our marriage that he made me out to be. 3. He is done with me, period, end of story.
Mimi, unlike your husband, Drac does not want me as a life partner. He doesn't (and maybe never did) love me the way your H loves you. He doesn't value the total package.
How HURTFUL and REJECTING to GODDESS BUGSY in all her FABULOCITY...
I think I have a new favorite word - Fabulocity!
Yes, it is hurtful. Yet, I know that despite his efforts, he does 'see' that about me, still. Of course he continues to deny it, but there's no way he really doesn't SEE me. He continues to throw up his barriers & justifications to discount what he can't help but see.
Yes, the love bank continues to drain. I think that I'm willing to let that happen for a couple of reasons - 1. It will help me to have it drained, for if it is empty then perhaps my heart will then be more open to the next opportunity. For as long as there is a balance on that account, it seems I am unable to really open myself fully to other possibilities 2. It is 'easier' than my facing Drac saying flat out (again) that he is done with me. It's the "Not Facing Conflict" part of me again coming out.
As you all know, I've been seeing V for only 6 weeks or so, but I have learned a lot about him in a short time. He's extremely open & honest. We have talked so much that it seems that I've known him much longer.
Here's the thing - every word & action I see from him has been 100% in total agreement with my thoughts/feelings/ideals/values when it comes to relationships, children, life, God, work, marriage. He has given a great deal of thought, effort & reflection to the mistakes of his past and has taken steps to make changes for the future. He treats me like the Goddess that I am, with complete respect, affection, and even admiration. From all early indications, he has what appears to be all of the qualities any of us here would put on our list of qualifications when starting a new relationship.
I have made every effort to be up front & honest with him and myself about where I stand. I am extremely hesitant and cautious. A great deal of that is understandable merely because of what I've been through with Drac.
Some of it, however, is because of the remaining 'hope' & desire for restoration with Drac.
When I think that. When I write it down. When I acknowledge that, I just want to slap myself and say, "Snap out of it Bugs!"
What the heck? You are holding back with this GREAT guy because of DRAC? What's DRAC done that deserves your continued hope? Nothing.
Yet, I continue to allow myself to remain on the rollercoaster ride. I have the absolute power to bring the ride to a grinding stop at any moment and simply step off. Instead, I keep on riding.
Hmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,
I think I will ponder on that some more before making futher comment.
Yesterday was low key here at home. Church in the morning. Kids playing outside all day. Bugs doing some things around the house, but also just lounging about in between.
One thing that happened that bothered me. The kids were outside. DSS was having a disagreement with the neighbor's friend - an unpleasant little girl who doesn't get along with DSS at all. (I think she likes him & just presses his buttons intentionally).
Anyway, she had him angry/upset. I walked outside in my back yard just in time to hear her say, "I'm going to tell your Mom!"
DSS replied loudly, "She's NOT my MOM!" I felt like I'd been punched in the stomach. I know it was not meant the way that it felt, but it was so hurtful.
So, later in the day I did talk to DSS about it. It was obvious that he had no idea that I'd overheard it & he was embarassed by it. I simply told him that I'd heard it and that it had really hurt me. No, I'm not his 'real' mom, but I have always considered myself to be and that he has always been/always will be my son, so to hear him say that really hurt me. He apologized and I accepted. He came to me later about it to apologize again. I know he didn't mean it, and I told him so, but that he needs to understand that words can hurt,,,,very badly.
I dropped of DSS last night at Drac's. He was nervous about facing Drac - he was told that Drac would 'deal with him' on the grades when he got home. I assured him it would be fine, but he has to face the music. I told him we'd talk today.
Ladybugs ran in the house, as Drac had told her he was picking up their new puppy yesterday. She could not wait to see him. I settled in the car to wait, as I expected her to be a while inside. She was back outside in less than a minute, carrying the puppy for me to see. I got out and held it for a few minutes. DSS came out, too. We played with the puppy for a few minutes and then I gave him back to Ladybugs. She took him back inside & I got back in the car. DSS came over to lean in and give me a second hug goodbye! Not his 'usual'. Drac never appeared. Ladybugs was back out pretty quickly. I thought she would want to stay and play with the puppy. After we left I commented that she didn't stay long - she replied that she didn't want me to have to wait,,,while it was sweet of her to say/think that, it does make me wonder what went on inside because getting her away from any kind of baby animal is usually like pulling teeth. I believe it was her idea not to stay long, because if it wasn't she would have been pouting instead of being herself as she was.
I really thought Drac would make an appearance with them bringing out the puppy. I am trying not to give it much thought, but I will admit to wondering about it a little.
So, another week begins. I think a nice long shower is in order to make a good start. Ladybugs is off school today for Columbus day, so I'm letting her sleep in. I love the mornings where we don't have to rush!
Hope you all have a great week
!
Bugs:
This line:
Mimi, unlike your husband, Drac does not want me as a life partner. He doesn't (and maybe never did) love me the way your H loves you. He doesn't value the total package.
Sums it all up.
Since he never felt 100% committed to you, the rest will never be possible.
Flamingo will tell you that I never got there until MB and Dday.
I changed. I walked across that line to total commitment to Flamingo.
Drac NEVER did for you. I thought that maybe he could. But with that line above, something that you have never put as plainly yet, puts it ALL in perspective.
Time for that coaster to come to a screeching halt. There's reasons to ride that coaster, but if your always going to return to the same station, then its time to get off.
Drac wants to WIN, because then you will be just another conquest to him. "Look how bad I screwed her over and she still wants it!" PUKE. He won't ASK for it, but he will certainly take it if offered.
I thought it was just not wanting to admit all the mistakes that he made. But it's deeper than that now. That chasm is way too wide to cross. And the other side was never prepared for your landing anyway.
You have done everthing. Walked the hardest road, as I said. But when you stated those simple facts above? Changes everything. Drac moved from a guy (for me) who has some issues to just a slug. I thought he was capable of fixing himself. I'm not so sure. Because I didn't realize how broken he was.
Sorry, Bugs. I may have been offering advice from a broken perspective. I think the glass is clearer now.
LG
LG,
I don't think you were advising me incorrectly at all. It was with hope of someone who had been there and crossed the line to commitment. Someone who saw the 'dark side' and did what it took to come to the light & who understands the incredible rewards that come with that choice.
Since he never felt 100% committed to you, the rest will never be possible.
Flamingo will tell you that I never got there until MB and Dday.
I changed. I walked across that line to total commitment to Flamingo.
Drac NEVER did for you. I thought that maybe he could
I thought he could too.
I thought it was just not wanting to admit all the mistakes that he made.
Yes, I thought this, too.
But if that were the case, I think I'd be seeing something different from him.
I think perhaps he sees how broken he is - that he realizes that he must fix himself first & he is unwilling to do this. I have a feeling he's been looking in the mirror off and on for a few months now. Yet every time he glimpses the truth, he runs off to the next party, the next date, the next whatever instead of facing the truth or doing anything to change.
I think he was as committed to me as he ever has been to anyone in his life. I believe he loved me to the best of his ability for a portion of our marriage. Yet it wasn't enough. When things weren't perfect, when struggles came, I think he believes he really 'tried'. When his attempts at trying didn't succeed to his satisfaction, he checked out. When he checked out, it was for good.
He failed to look to see if his attempts had anything to do with what *I* needed, , they were focused strictly on getting what he wanted/needed. I'm not being judgemental here, as I can't say that my attempts were not the same for a long time, but they did change at Dday & even more since finding MB. He never could see beyond what he'd 'already tried' and he never believed things could be any different.
What I said about Drac not wanting me as a life partner is because he can not see things as being any different than the worst parts of our marriage. I think if he could bring himself around to believe in what we all know is possible with MB, that it could be about the Best parts of our previous marriage being even BETTER than before, he would no doubt LOVE what our lives would be like.
As you said, I've done all I can to make that possible. Time to step off the rollercoaster. I suppose I just keep thinking that one more round might be the round where he asks to get in.
Email from Drac at 7:50 a.m. An article about the current financial crisis - noted at the beginning with a comment about the politics involved.
WTF?
Meet my needs for support when it comes to DSS - but only when I want you to,,,,
Meet my needs to talk & share funny storie about Ladybugs - but only when I don't have anything better to do,,,,,
Meet my needs to get directions to the football game - because I was too busy with my date last night to look them up for myself,,,,
Pretend I didn't abandon you & the kids,,,, ;)& treat me like you did when we were 'great friends' because that's so much better for all of us,,,,,
Meet my needs for intellectual conversation - because the Mensa candidates I'm dating from match.com can't hold up their end of this kind of conversation,,,,,
Don't get me wrong ya'll. I am sitting here laughing :RollieEyes:
Hi Bugs
I read a lot of post here but and have replied to you before,
so I hope that I do not offend you or any one here when I say this and it's only my opinion.
I do not think Drac is a renter I think you can call him a Kato Kaelin a sponge who is willing to soak up all the good things or the spillage of good things you do for his son.
It's almost like you are the footballer and he is the cheerleader on the side lines cheering you on when your ss grades are falling he goes to you yelping out an SOS knowing that you will save the day and I know in your heart you will always be there for him, and drac knows this too and uses it to his advantage.
I do not think he will ever get it or what he has done because when you parallel his actions with his son to his actions of what he did with your marriage to him it becomes clear that he is what he is, he reminds me of driver you get stuck in back of that does everything in his car but pay attention to his driving.
I'm just happy that your ss has you in life, and hopefully he will see and learn how rare it is for a step parent who wants to stay in their life and love them.
Yes, the love bank continues to drain. I think that I'm willing to let that happen for a couple of reasons - 1. It will help me to have it drained, for if it is empty then perhaps my heart will then be more open to the next opportunity. For as long as there is a balance on that account, it seems I am unable to really open myself fully to other possibilities 2. It is 'easier' than my facing Drac saying flat out (again) that he is done with me. It's the "Not Facing Conflict" part of me again coming out.
I can completely relate to this. I experienced the same thing, although my exH wasn't nearly as chummy as yours. But I kept sticking out my neck, just a tad, to have him quickly chop it off. It was a very long painful process.
I still try to be pleasant and nonconfrontational. I do believe I want him to reconsider me one day, but I am come to believe that he has little to offer me as a mate. Maybe I feel I need to leave a crack open for my kids sake. I would hate to have a chance to restore their family and not be open to the idea at all.
But for a long time, I completely accomdated my exH whims. When he demanded NC, I never called. When he started being a tad more open, I was just as open. When he decides to start being rude again, I don't complain, just go with the flow.
It is very tiring trying to figure out a pattern for his moods. I keep trying to find the predictable situation, but his attitude towards me has absolutely nothing to do with anything I have control over.
I wish I didn't have to put myself through this, but I needed my love bank to drain, drain, drain. I would not get close to anyone because I knew I still had love for my exH. I tolerated this ridiculous nonrelationship thing with exH so I could get done, done, done.
My bank is probably at a 7.5%, but it's funny, I never look him in the eyes. If I did, my balance would jump up another 10% or so. I am pretty sure by the end of this holiday season, I will be sitting at less than 4-5%, I can live with that. (I am projecting he will pull some real jerky stuff come Christmas).
Like you Bugs, there has been a slow awareness that my ex probably never loved me as you would expect a husband to love a wife. In my case, I was a logical choice, a decent wife (for quite a while) and a good partner. But now I am the embodiment of his guilt and he will never admit to a mistake, so there is no future for us.
For me, protecting my love was not the objective, I needed him to stomp all over and destroy that love. I needed to keep being hurt so I could let go of any hope.
Like you Bugs, there has been a slow awareness that my ex probably never loved me as you would expect a husband to love a wife. In my case, I was a logical choice, a decent wife (for quite a while) and a good partner. But now I am the embodiment of his guilt and he will never admit to a mistake, so there is no future for us.
For me, protecting my love was not the objective, I needed him to stomp all over and destroy that love. I needed to keep being hurt so I could let go of any hope.
I totally relate to this, too. You stated this perfectly, Jean.
I had to offer myself up for abuse in order to reach the threshold where I could say "enough is enough." I could not find a way to let go without it.
Fox
and hopefully he will see and learn how rare it is for a step parent who wants to stay in their life and love them.
Don't you hope that he ends up with a step parent who does just that? And Ladybugs as well?
I take issue with this because
I am a "step." And I made it clear to the kids that I love them and I am going to stay in their lives and not "divorce" them and I hoped that they would stay in mine.
Just sayin'.
And I hope Bugsy's children end up with a wonderful step parent. They are out there. My stepmom is cuckoo, but she is a good "step" and we get along great.
Charlotte
Bugs,
Sorry to say that I see what the others see too. Since DS is your step son, I assume that Drac was M before? If so, I think in his mind he doesn't have to work too hard at M. If it gets tough, just move on to something else until you find one that you like. The only problem with that is, the more you move on to something else, the worse things get.
Not sure how Drac was when he was M to you, but from what I gather he was never really that committed. He hasn't gotten to the point in life where he realizes that a stable family life, loving life partner, and wonderful children are what it's all about. Sad.
Take care of you Bugs, and don't settle for less than you want out of life.
Don't you hope that he ends up with a step parent who does just that? And Ladybugs as well?
But it's not up to the kids it's up to who the parent chooses to exposed their kids to.
Plus factor in the the way most marriages that end in infidelity and remarriage of the ws, those stepkids rarely gets a voice in seeing their former step-parent due to the ow/om who is now considered the new "step".
Or the ws who is the bio-parent are not under any legal law to keep the step parent in the child's life.
I've been here since 99 even though I only registered recently and I've seen quite a few step parents that were heartbroken when the divorce went though and the bio parent banished them from the kids lives.
Since DS is your step son,
DS is a "step?" I never would have guessed it! Good, counting yet another "step" parent who rocks! Yay!!
Not so rare, says I.
Charlotte
Yeah Bugsy,
It sure seems like you're just about done with Drac. His GAME is getting comical to you, which means it won't be long before all you feel for him is PITY.
All the while V is making his little love deposits and waiting patiently.
Since I'm in a similar situation as V, I can't help but root for the guy, especially since I think he has a much better chance than I do.
I need a good guy to get a (V)ictory. A lot of us do.
Just keep taking it slow and keep being honest.
Very seriously speaking though. I think if you do decide to give V a chance, DRAC should not be his competition.
Beau Beau
This cracked me up! I just don't see you as a Beau Beau.
Great advice given to Bugs, though.
Fox
Thanks for the great input everyone! I appreciate everything everyone had to say.
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that has had the feeling of needing to have the love bank drained. It feels all wrong in so many ways, but yet it is what is needed (I think).
Very seriously speaking though. I think if you do decide to give V a chance, DRAC should not be his competition.
Exactly.
I'm cheering for you "nice guys", too! You deserve the best, my friend. Hang in there. The right time, the right girl, will come along.
I am just trying to be very careful for V's sake, as much as mine. He seems to be waaay too good for me to allow my drama/issues to hurt him. That's the last thing that I want; to hurt anyone else.
Beau Beau,,,,,that's what I call my sweet little doggie! It's never just Beau.
Of course I've known about you sharing a name with him, , , but now we've extended it to his 'pet' name! Too funny!
Actually the proper spelling is
FABULOSITY . It's the title of a book by KIMORA LEE SIMMONS..there's lots of HER in ME..my H and I LOVE THAT SHOW!! I'm not as BAD as her..but...
Bugsy:
This line:
I am just trying to be very careful for V's sake, as much as mine. He seems to be waaay too good for me to allow my drama/issues to hurt him. That's the last thing that I want; to hurt anyone else.
This is how Drac feels. He can't hurt someone else, so he moves on. He doesn't really COMMIT.
Are you too good for V? If you feel that way, then you have already lost the battle, haven't you? I don't think that you aren't good enough to be with ANYBODY.
You may call yourself the "Queen of Trash" but that doesn't mean that's where you are. You are a QUEEN. And maybe, just maybe, V can live up to THAT.
Can you hurt V? Sure. You can hurt him bad. If your being honest, eyes open, and so is he, than happiness is in your future. And if you DO commit to the relationship, then pain can befall you now. And V as well. But if you short arm everything, then you will never really get there. I was that way. I was that way for the first 15 years of my R with Flamingo. Short arming everything. Not exposing me or being interested in getting really hurt. Guarding my every action.
Don't be afaid to love. You gave it to your first husband, and then you gave it to Drac. Your good enough to give it away to the next one, with all the added benefits that MB can give you for that future relationship.
LG
LG:
You and I are on the SAME PAGE now..except POLITICALLY, I think...
Mimi:
About this:
You and I are on the SAME PAGE now..except POLITICALLY, I think...
If your taking about POLITICALY with Drac, then I am ???
If your talking November, then my opinion of you doesn't change just because we may see differently on other issues. And even in those differences I bet there is ALOT of common ground. Hey, this is America. Diversity can't hurt....
(((MIMI)))
LG
Wow, Bugsy, lotsa good stuff being talked about on your thread. I'm reminded of my sitch, not that ours are exactly the same. I allowed so much damage to be done beyond the initial Dday by letting an unrepentent wayward through the revolving door. That door is closed now, been taken out and replaced with a regular ole door, just swings in. I know the Z's knock, too, and he ain't comin in. Maybe he can get himself an a$$terectomy in the near future and become a better man for the sake of himself, his son and his future partners, but I want none of it.
Anyway, just wanted to drop in and say the same ole spiel as I've said numerous times recently.
Wasn't it your mom who said "You can't fix stupid"
So true, so true...
HEY!
Silent's Back!
Love this:
Maybe he can get himself an a$$terectomy
You little quotemeister you!
LG>>>Grinning<<<
I tell ya, I have gotten to the point that I shake my head and laugh at the Z, NOT because the situation is at all funny. NOPE! It's been h3ll on earth. The reason I laugh is because he still looks to me for help and for some sort of admiration. He's even tried offering me a fricken candy bar at football practice. NO THANK YOU! :MrEEk: It could be laced with something
Seriously, though, I laugh more out of pity. What a maroon! :RollieEyes: He had it all, the WORLD, in the palm of his hand and he's lost it all. Sure, he can have the house and be a part time dad, and galavant around doing whatever, maybe even remarry some great woman, but he'll never be able to look in the mirror and say he did all he could. He has to live with this very huge mistake. I like my reflection just fine. I gave him all I had to give--no more, no less. I knew I was done when I felt like my back was contorting. That was it for me. I had to let the love bank run empty in order to let go; I know this now.
I plan A'd and Plan B'd; the last plan I had was an attempt at recovery, followed by Plan D. I needed to know for sure, and now I do.
Hi ya, LG:
I meant on the SAME PAGE about DRAC, my friend !!
Ahhhh, feelin' the love between folks around here!
Funny how dealing with the horrific effects of infidelity brings together such a diverse group of folks!
I'm pretty busy this week with work but struggling to stay focused. A friend who is on match.com told me that Drac has 'signed off' his membership; apparently she looked at his profile recently that said, something to the effect "it was fun while it lasted, but life has become too busy for this dating lifestyle. I've met a lot of wonderful ladies, and I wish you all the best in your search for romance. Remember to always be honest and don't judge that book by it's cover - you might be surprised".
We had an email exchange yesterday - there is still an email in my inbox that I'll deal with later. Long story short he told Ladybug he plans to have her during the day Fri. because she is off school. He did not tell me anything about it. I emailed him to check yesterday, as I had to send money today to sign her up for latchkey field trip if he was not going to have her. He replied that he was waiting to 'get things in order' before talking to me about it. He wanted me to take her to dance Thurs and for him to pick her up for overnight that night. Normally it would be 'my' night. It also means that she would be gone overnight Wed, Thurs, Fri, and Sat. I don't like not having her so many nights in a row. Instead of replying about what *I* wanted, I told Ladybug the plan and she replied, "No, I want to stay here that night. Daddy can pick me up in the morning"
So, I let him know what she wanted. I also told him I'd prefer that we touch base on this stuff in the future before he talks to Ladybug so that if it doesn't work out for some reason then she is not upset, confused, or disappointed.
Long story short, he is not happy about my response. I know that's the gist of the pending email,,,,,and the auto preview showed that he "just wants as much time with the kids as possible". What? If that were true then he would be taking advantage of the time he DOES have already - - which we know he hasn't been doing. Why would I possibly have any empathy for him in that regard?
Stoopid.
I have more than enough work today to keep me busy, with a really important conference call this afternoon. I'll spend most of the morning preparing for that. Maybe I'll have time to read his email later. Maybe I'll reply or maybe not.
Not a pirority.
Besides work, I have a 'girls weekend' coming up at the end of the month to get ready for. Chicago - Michigan Ave - - Look out!!
Want to start out by saying.. that I'm in no way saying that you're in the wrong..
I totally understand the concept of enforcing the rule when the little one wants to stay at your place that night.
At the same token I can also empathize with his frustration at not getting what time he wants with her.
That doesn't excuse the fact that -he- chose for his life to be this way, and I think that's what sets him apart from guys like me who have uttered that exact same line. You've even told him that he can correct that choice.. but so far hasn't had the a$$terectomy required for it... and appears to be real short on time to figure it out.
Just keep doing what you're doing Bugsy.. remember when it comes to dealing with him to make sure you're doing right by Ladybugs, and if you're unsure.. pray about it and try to consider what the Lord would have you do.
We're all behind you 1000% whatever you decide to do..
I just despise all this.. for the kids especially.. so unfair to them.
Bugsy
Thanks for the support, guys!
At the same token I can also empathize with his frustration at not getting what time he wants with her.
Honestly, I COULD empathize with him on this too, IF he took advantage of the time he already has with her. He doesn't. For the past couple of months, EVERY weekend he has had the kids, he has left them with a sitter at least one of the nights. So, to complain about one overnight doesn't hold much water with me.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,that's done and over with. He picked her up this morning.(late) He's totally reverted to strictly email and text messaging with me. Seems he's giving me the Plan B. Works fine and saves me effort.
I'm swamped at work which is good for keeping my mind occupied (for the most part). Am having dinner tonight with V. DSS has his football at 9 am tomorrow. I need to go to the mall tonight to pick up a heavier leather jacket for my Harley Fall Color Tour ride tomorrow afternoon. Sunday, am spending the afternoon with V. So, a pretty packed weekend.
Oh, i also have to figure out how to get the spark plug out of my mower,,,,,,it's not starting and I'm sure the spark plug is bad. It's one of the few minor type repairs that I've never done before!!
Dad would normally take care of it but he had a defibulator (sp?) put in on Monday. He's home & everything is going great, but he's not up for mower repair just yet!
Hope you all have a great weekend,,,,,,,,,,,my phone is going crazy!! Trash calls,,,,,,,,,,
Chicago - Michigan Ave - - Look out!!
WOO-HOO!!! Good for you!! I'm JEALOUS!! LOVE that PLACE!!
Hi Bugs,
Catching up on your thread... this caught my eye!
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that has had the feeling of needing to have the love bank drained. It feels all wrong in so many ways, but yet it is what is needed (I think).
It's been a few days...just wondering if you still feel this way.
I was hoping that with PLAN B the Lovebank doesn't HAVE to get drained....and, seeing that WS is not interested in making effort in M recovery.....along with Plan D, just allows BS to consider a NEW relationship...
It does sound, from your experience and others like WH and SL, that this may not be so?
...just wondering....is an 'emotional' disconnection, or loss of respect, or whatever it takes to drain the Lovebank, a requirement to make ROOM for a new R to thrive, or would it just make it easier somehow?
....my mindset right now, being in Plan B, is to consider WS as I would a 'stranger' (actually MORE), as I maintain STANDARDS as to a life partner re committment, openness to personal improvement,etc..... and once I go ahead with Plan D... I see it as widening MY options, and decreasing in a major way the possibility of M recovery, and WS/S becoming less of a DESIRABLE candidate (should he ever be interested!)
...as I would like to think that this way, unless I am in a NEW R, should WS be OPEN to M recovery in the future, I would like to have SOMETHING in my Lovebank so that I would be willing to consider it...
...if not, it would not be the first time that I have had to REVISIT my beliefs :crosseyedcrazy:
Luna,
For me, it was not necessary to drain the lovebank in order to consider a relationship with another man or to move forward. It was, in my case, a natural consequence of continued false recoveries and what amounted to abuse.
In my case ONLY, the Z had/has a long way to fall, and I'm just not willing to stick around anymore or put my life on hold in any way. Some people will not want to attempt recovery because they cannot fathom that it's not impossible. I sometimes feel like I got buried alive underneath it all.
I would suggest to keep on keepin on in your plan B. You have all the tools to make a go at a really great relationship when the right guy comes along, and if you stay in Plan B, you can avoid more damage to yourself.
If this means that months or years down the road you are more willing to attempt recovery with a repentent and ready WH, then so be it. If not, you can move forward and thrive.
Just my humble little opinion.
...in my case, a natural consequence of continued false recoveries and what amounted to abuse.
Yes, I know, SL... your last false recovery was very painful, and I am so sorry... know that I do keep in mind your experience and those of others to help me stay on track...
I would suggest to keep on keepin on in your plan B. You have all the tools to make a go at a really great relationship when the right guy comes along, and if you stay in Plan B, you can avoid more damage to yourself.
If this means that months or years down the road you are more willing to attempt recovery with a repentent and ready WH, then so be it. If not, you can move forward and thrive.
After Plan D, I intend to maintain Plan B because WS is NOT someone I wish to KNOW...until such time as WS convinces me that he is out of the fog, realizes the damage done, takes responsibility for it, wants to learn how to be 'considerate of others', and, of course, OP is no longer in his life (....without necessarily attempt M recovery...as it might be too late for that!)
...because contact with a WS is not to be RECOMMENDED...very bad for your physical and mental health... :crosseyedcrazy:
Sorry for the t/j Bugs!
After Plan D, I intend to maintain Plan B because WS is NOT someone I wish to KNOW...until such time as WS convinces me that he is out of the fog, realizes the damage done, takes responsibility for it, wants to learn how to be 'considerate of others', and, of course, OP is no longer in his life (....without necessarily attempt M recovery...as it might be too late for that!)
I still to THIS day can comprehend not having H in my life, but I have to agree, as long as H stays WS I won't have anything to do with him and that simply breaks my heart because I still miss my H so much.
How ya doing Bugs?
After Plan D, I intend to maintain Plan B
When I discussed this with Jennifer, she told me that Plan B should stay in effect out of respect to your next partner. E.g., if you have to discuss kid stuff, you should do it in the presence of your new partner.
The ex should always be viewed as a threat to a new relationship.
I'm also with you guys in with respect to the ex if they're still wayward. As long as the SCQ is still wayward, she's dead to me.
QNL - That is exactly how I feel about my WS. Her behavior over the last 3 months is so tragic - she is headed straight down on an elevator to rock bottom and she doesn't realize it. This isn't my W. Whether we R or D, it will always break my heart to see her hit bottom.
Morning, all!
I should be working, but am needing my MB fix! Trying to catch up with everyone, but I'm really far behind.
Busy weekend. Dinner Friday w/V. Nice. Saturday Harley ride in the afternoon up a riverside road - a slight chill in the air but the sun was shining so it was really nice. Sat outside for lunch by the river. Rode up the bluffs to a winery/patio. A guy playing guitar & singing,,,lots of people, and a really nice afternoon with a good bottle of wine. Rode back & stopped at a fun bar, met lots of nice people & came home really late. Did NOTHING all day Sunday but try to recover. Not used to being out past 10 o'clock!! ha!
I'm just not really comfortable yet with the whole dating thing. I had a good time both times. Yet there's still something that doesn't feel quite right. I have yet to put my finger on it. I'll let you know if/when I make any progress in that line of thinking,,,,,,,,,,,
DD seemed to have a good weekend overall, with the exception of getting in trouble when some roughousing with Drac got a bit out of hand on her part. Seems she hit him in the face and he got very angry with her. She is very sensitive about that kind of thing.
Sometimes the things she says really take me by surprise. She told me she wished she was 16 so that she could go to college and move. I asked "why the hurry? You told me you'd stay with me forever." She replied that she does want to stay with me forever, but that if she was 16 and in college, she could move and then she wouldn't HAVE to go to Daddy's"
WHAT??
Now part of that could be the disagreement that they had, but it still bothers me that she says this stuff. Then,,,,,,,,,,later she tells me that she would give back every present she's asked for for her birthday and Christmas if Drac & I would get back together. She has at least one comment like this per week, if not more. It breaks my heart every time.
I don't know if this is siginificant enough to push counseling, or if it is just something that is a part of the process. Overall she seems happy & well adjusted. No temper tantrums or acting out - - no problems with school. She's good for me at home. I hate that I can't really share with Drac,,,,,,,as I belive the key to this does lie with him. I just know how he'd handle it if I shared this with him - he'd confront her and she would either lie or shut down about it all. It may be necessary to start counseling so that he can be brought in and a third party can coach him about how to handle things. Something I'm strongly considering.
The good news is that other than Friday when he was supposed to be off work, but he went in to work anyway (leaving the kids @ a sitter for a while), he did spend the rest of the weekend with them for a change.
I had to email him about trick or treating schedule. Both our small towns have trick or treating Thurs & Fri next week. He'd told me about their town parade being on Friday. The regular schedule has her with me Thurs and with him on Fri. So I emailed that we'd go over here on Thurs. He replied, "I already told you that that is when we have trick or treating in our neighborhood with the parade the following day".
So, what? Does he think she should be over there both days? I simply replied with the information that they have trick or treating on both Thurs & Fri.
My email also had to ask him about keeping her during an out of town trip in Nov. He said it would not be a problem.
Final item was what I plan to buy her for her birthday. His reply was that he's already bought her a bike (Yeah,,the man that has NEVER bought any gift in advance,,whatever). The funny thing is that on Fri when he went to work & left the kids w/the neighbor, they GAVE her one of their girl's old bikes! His email said, "This is why I was upset about The X's giving her that bike." Like I am supposed to know that he was upset about it? LOL! I thought it was kind of funny.
So, it the exchange just made me really sad. It's still all about Drac getting what he thinks is 'reasonable' or appropriate. He loves to put out there that he's wanting to be flexible, as long as things go his way it's all good. I know he was mad about the Halloween thing,,,,as DD told me after she talked to him last night that he was a "a crabby b*tt".
Do immature waywards ever grow up?
I'm just glad that I have enough going on in life these days to keep me pretty busy. Less time to waste on the wayward crazy thinking process. Hate that it bothers me at all,,,,,but it is getting a bit better.
Yet there's still something that doesn't feel quite right. I have yet to put my finger on it. I'll let you know if/when I make any progress in that line of thinking,,,,,,,,,,,
You haven’t let go yet. You have a nagging doubt you’re betraying a marriage that does not exist.
V’s not standing on the porch with flowers and wine on a beautiful summer evening knocking on the door, he’s storming a well defended castle in mid-winter.
You haven’t let go yet. You have a nagging doubt you’re betraying a marriage that does not exist.
This is it, for me, in a nutshell. I was thinking on the way into town this morning - I still love him.
And when I'm out with someone else, I constantly feel like I'm going to be "caught." KWIM?
How stupid.
But I also I realize that I don't love HIM. I love the man I remember and just as in death, you revisit the mourning from time to time.
There have been many times over the years that I have been experiencing a special moment or just one that is joyful and I think "I sure wish Grandma was here, she would really enjoy this." Grandma has been gone for 13 years. I still miss her and definately still love her.
I think the same thing of WxH every once in a while. Wishing he was there and experiencing the moment with me. Knowing what was happening in the moment would please him in some way.
As we've talked about before - it's harder with the waywards because the body of that person that we loved still exists.
You're doing well, Bugs. I sure feel for your LadyBug. I know exactly what you mean when you consider talking to Drac about it. WxH would do the same thing, confront and DDs would withdraw, deny, or have their bad feelings added to, and feel as though I betrayed them.
Chin up, Bugs. You are an amazing woman and I'm grateful to count you as a friend.
Fox
You haven’t let go yet. You have a nagging doubt you’re betraying a marriage that does not exist.
Yes,,,,,I think you are right. Seeing it there in black & white that way makes me feel rather stupid.
V’s not standing on the porch with flowers and wine on a beautiful summer evening knocking on the door, he’s storming a well defended castle in mid-winter.
WOW!!! There's a mental picture. I'm picturing myself as the wicked Ice Queen in the top tower,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not in a good way either.
And when I'm out with someone else, I constantly feel like I'm going to be "caught." KWIM?
How stupid
Yep, but it KNOWING it's stupid doesn't change the facts of the feeling does it?
I keep thinking about LG's comment the other day about short arming everyone. I don't want to do this, but I'm not so sure that I'm ready to drop my arm yet.
It makes me mad, too! I think I'm going through a bit of the old "I SHOULD be over this by now" phase. I "want" to be over this by now. Thus, the whole discussion about draining out the Love Bank.
BTW - Luna- Plan B IS about not having to do that for most people. And it's about being able to reserve/protect some love for them until you choose not to any longer.
For ME,,,,,,,,,,,,I want to be past WANTING it anymore. I can't seem to hold hope in reserve somewhere AND find the ability to fully open myself to someone new at the same time.
For now, I'm just trying to see Drac more clearly than ever. He's not the person I want & my DH seems less than likely to ever return. As you say, Foxxy, it's mourning the loss & having the moments we'd like to share with the one we love.
Overall, our communication has been pretty Plan B like with the exception of the football games. Drac has used them as opportunities to attempt the friendly co-parenting thing. I've been pretty non-receptive. This last week, in fact, he was acting a bit different,,,in that he finally seemed to notice. He seemed uncomfortable for the first time. He was sitting wringing his hands tightly which is one of the things he does when he is nervous or upset. Of course, that could be his being angry that DSS hasn't gotten much time on the field. I caught him watching us from the stands when I took DD to the bathroom - and he'd even moved seats while we were gone so that he was sitting behind me (I'd moved one row up from him previously).
I don't know why I even bother to take note of such silly things or why I care. I just do.
So, this Sat is the last football game of the season, so there will be no need for any FTF contact until next Spring at DD's softball games. I think this will do me a world of good.
He did mention via email a week or so ago that he's planning to take the kids to Florida over Christmas and that perhaps "we could sit down and talk about this in the near future". Nothing really to discuss as far as I'm concerned. He knows what the scheduled times are for him to have the kids. He can schedule their trip during any of that time.
I told a friend this morning how it's amazing to me that Drac can still effect me. That it bothers me still that this person who supposedly loved me so much can treat me as such an enemy. Why do I even care?
I don't know. I just know that I do. I also know that someday, someway, that will pass. It's better than it used to be, but it's not over for me yet. And that makes me
AND
all at the same time.
Here I go, breakin the law again--big brother is having lunch and it's my lunch break, so THERE!!!
Bugsy, about this
BTW - Luna- Plan B IS about not having to do that for most people. And it's about being able to reserve/protect some love for them until you choose not to any longer.
For ME,,,,,,,,,,,,I want to be past WANTING it anymore. I can't seem to hold hope in reserve somewhere AND find the ability to fully open myself to someone new at the same time
The answer to much of why Drac still affects you is right there in bold. You preserved the love you have for him, and now that your plan B isn't dark as night, it's eroding, and it's painful to witness and feel. When you open yourself up, and the love bank starts draining, and the disdain you have for your WS grows, you WANT the love bank to run dry so that you can be done with him/her and all that PAIN. THAT is what happened with the Z, except it was DURING a false recovery, instead of a time of Plan B and separation.
When I'm at football practice and games, I could care less what the Z does or says. I'm not cruel, but I have no interest in talking to him. There's really no need.
I have come to know that the MB method is not for the faint of heart or those who lack tenacity. It is BRUTAL on the BS. Now that I'm on the other side of things, I feel a sense of calm and peace, knowing that I did put my best foot forward and took that tough, high road. There are days, however, when I feel as if I wasted TOO much energy on the Z. I couldn't know that until I towed the line, though. Good ole hindsight
You haven’t let go yet. You have a nagging doubt you’re betraying a marriage that does not exist.
Yes,,,,,I think you are right. Seeing it there in black & white that way makes me feel rather stupid.
V’s not standing on the porch with flowers and wine on a beautiful summer evening knocking on the door, he’s storming a well defended castle in mid-winter.
WOW!!! There's a mental picture. I'm picturing myself as the wicked Ice Queen in the top tower,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not in a good way either.
No, it’s not wicked to defend your castle against invaders. And as long as you hold onto to the idea that R can be achieved and you still want that, some part of V will always be an invader in your mind.
I don't want to do this, but I'm not so sure that I'm ready to drop my arm yet.
And some day when you feel it is time to let go you will lower the drawbridge, abandon the barbican, lift the porcullis, have a fish fry with the boiling oil and we will all go punting on the moat.
Chris,,,,where do you come up with this stuff? Another post from you that required me to get out the dictionary!
portcullis - A grating of iron hung over the gateway of a fortified place and lowered between grooves to prevent passage
barbican - An outer defensive work, especially a tower at a gate or bridge
So, my day is complete now that I have learned 2 new words!!
Seriously, I realize that you are right. As is our Law Breaking Friend, SL!! (thanks for taking the risk on my behalf!:))
Frankly, I'm not 'worried' about this as I have been in the recent past. I've somewhat accepted that it is what is is for now.
I don't HAVE to do or decide anything, in any way, about any of these 'relationships' right this minute. The only pressure there is on me is what I give myself or what I 'allow' myself to accept from anyone else.
It's hard not to do that "If only" additional comments/thoughts. If Only Drac would do or see or say or think or feel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. Not going to let myself go down that dead end.
There is also the "if only" *I* could do or say or think or feel,,,,,,,,,,,,,Again a path that I don't need to be on right now. Not going to beat myself up for how I feel or don't feel about any of it right now.
The sun is shining. The birds are singing. I don't feel the need today to gargle with bourbon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,life ain't so bad!
And some day when you feel it is time to let go you will lower the drawbridge, abandon the barbican, lift the porcullis, have a fish fry with the boiling oil and we will all go punting on the moat.
I don't what the he11 that means, but I'm sure it violates TOS
Oh, and count me in
Hey Bugs,
I'm trying to catch up on your thread, but doing work at the same time.
I just wanted to stop by and say thank you for what you said to me on my thread. I have been working very hard at looking at my behaviors, reasons etc and have come up with some stuff.
I admire you ability to look at what is said and whether you like it or not, see if it applies, accept where it does or discount it when not.
You are someone I respect very much.
{{{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}
For ME,,,,,,,,,,,,I want to be past WANTING it anymore.
I'm with you on this, Bugs. I'm really struggling with it, but I realized the same thing driving in to work yesterday. I want to not want this anymore. But I'm afraid to.
It will come when we're ready.
Bugs
Bugsy:
I wanted to comment about this:
Overall, our communication has been pretty Plan B like with the exception of the football games. Drac has used them as opportunities to attempt the friendly co-parenting thing. I've been pretty non-receptive. This last week, in fact, he was acting a bit different,,,in that he finally seemed to notice. He seemed uncomfortable for the first time. He was sitting wringing his hands tightly which is one of the things he does when he is nervous or upset. Of course, that could be his being angry that DSS hasn't gotten much time on the field. I caught him watching us from the stands when I took DD to the bathroom - and he'd even moved seats while we were gone so that he was sitting behind me (I'd moved one row up from him previously).
I don't know why I even bother to take note of such silly things or why I care. I just do.
Why did he move? Why did he wring his hands? Why did he....
Because he is facing the reality of his choices and actions.
DSS schoolwork is falling apart...
DD doesn't really like hanging around...
Bugsy is really starting to darkening up her Plan B...
Bugsy IS dating and that news is getting back to Drac....
The "friendly Plan D" where we just get along isn't turning out to be true...
He really, really wanted to put a better "face" on the sitch.
And it ain't happening.....
Ouch. That really hurts Drac to realize this.
Bugsy, you have REALLY passed beyond what this little old discussion board can do to help you recover your M with DH. I really think that you need to spend some time with Steve or Jennifer and really get a proper plan. SDGuy talks about how Jennifer advised him to send a little letter or note telling the SCQ that he still loved her and that there was a way to fix this.
Drac gets NOTHING like that. He gets lukewarm Plan B or Dark Plan B or even Plan A. Its a tough place for you as well. One day you will reach indifference like SL. It will take time. I don't recommend that you pander to his every possible opening, thinking "Is this the ONE? The ONE that will open us to the future?" That's why I recommend that you talk to the Harleys. Maybe your reluctance to do so means that your don't think that even that minimal investment is worth it in Drac. And that might mean that your Done-O-Meter is really really high right now. Making indifference that much closer.
Main point? Call the Harleys. And if not, then you ARE going quickly along that road, and that's OK, (If not moreso!)
LG
I agree completely with what LG just said.
Your Done-O-meter is not pegged. Some part of you still wants recovery.
Talk to Steve. Describe Drac's behavior to him. Let Steve help you figure out what it means and what the implications are for you.
Maybe your reluctance to do so means that your don't think that even that minimal investment is worth it in Drac.
I honestly can not say that I am sure one way or another about this. I suppose my thinking has been that IF there appeared to be any indications of changes in Drac that I'd consider another call to Steve. Seeing minor little things (which could easily be my own imagination), just haven't been enough to warrant making the call.
THEN,,,,,,
I haven't really thought in terms of calling Steve to discuss how to work things for MY own recovery VS possible M recovery.
THAT would certainly be worth the investment, now wouldn't it?
Honestly, the board has been and continues to be my invaluable sounding board. LG, while you may be right in not being able to assist directly in recovery of my M, you all are the key to my sanity in the recovery of
my life. Just sounding off here about whatever my random thoughts are and knowing I'm not alone helps me more than I ever imagined!
Honestly, the board has been and continues to be my invaluable sounding board. LG, while you may be right in not being able to assist directly in recovery of my M, you all are the key to my sanity in the recovery of my life. Just sounding off here about whatever my random thoughts are and knowing I'm not alone helps me more than I ever imagined!
Thank G-d for this and I second it.
This is what I hope, if somewhat naively:
Steve has seen this a zillion times before. They understand wayward behavior better than anyone else.
Drac broke up with the Ho, which was the big break. It's been xx amount of time since then. You did some stuff. You said some stuff. You put your cards on the table. Drac reacted not the way you were hoping, but he didn't go away either.
Since then, Drac has done some stuff. Said some stuff.
You have some things to report. Maybe Steve can put together that data into a picture that says Yes, recovery is still a possibility. Or maybe he will tell you Look Bugs, you gave him a chance, but he's had enough time to come around and is still doing X instead, so you should run, not walk to the nearest exit.
That's what I would be looking for.
I just wanted to let you know that I understand where you are, Bugs. The "I should be over this by now" stuff, I deal with that all the time. I am embarrassed to admit I started going to Divorcecare, I shouldn't need that, he's been gone three years. My kids don't know where I go on Mondays, I told them it was just a church thing. If it got back to exH that I was in Divorcecare, I would be very embarrassed.
Of course, that sounds screwed up, wouldn't it be wrong of me not to need some guidance grieving my marriage??
I tried a little bit of dating, but I felt shady. I knew I would take my ex back if he wanted, so it didn't seem fair to date.
I am also divorced (final 1/07), it is a dark but 80% amicable relationship. We can do a quick call about kid schedules, he hangs around for about 5 minutes when picking up the kids (as opposed to waiting in his car or insisting on a neutral location). For a long time, all I asked for was the same consideration he would give a cashier at the grocery store. OK, I have that now, as long as I don't ask ANYTHING of him or remind him of ANY responsibilities (There is a tax debt situation, I can't talk to him about it, so I just got a lawyer to deal with it).
Would I want to reconcile?? Only for the kids sake. I know nothing about who my exH is these days, and from the little I have seen, he has nothing to offer me as a spouse. But I would listen if he ever wanted to talk, I would like a little more closure, but I have given up that exit interview as an item on my wish list.
The love bank slowly drains, like watching a loved one die of a long terminal disease.
One thing that Divorcecare has taught me is that I have come a very long way. My group has a lot of "newbies" in it and I see the old me in their pain. So I can see progress, that is good.
(((Bugs)))
SD,
You have some things to report. Maybe Steve can put together that data into a picture that says Yes, recovery is still a possibility. Or maybe he will tell you Look Bugs, you gave him a chance, but he's had enough time to come around and is still doing X instead, so you should run, not walk to the nearest exit
Ahhh,,,that is certainly something worth hoping for! Thanks, SD. I'm going to sit down and gather my thoughts over the next week or so in this regard. I always try to 'summarize' a report before talking to Steve to get the most out of the time we have. Once I have that together I can better evaluate the when/why of that session.
Jean, thanks for your post. I'm sorry to hear that you are also struggling, but I think it's Fantastic that you are going to DivorceCare.
Yes, the old "I should be over this" is something most folks can't understand & it can feel quite embarrassing. I have a few close friends (including my mom) who are understanding, but even then, I keep my comments mostly to myself.
As you see in DivorceCare, we look at 'newbies' and are able to see progress from where we started to now. That is something to hold on to and to be proud of.
I think during my kid free nights tonight & tomorrow it may be time to re-visit my list of things I LIKE about myself, things that I consider such wonderful Blessings in my life, the things that I have Changed for the better, and start a new 'things I want to do" lists.
Bugs needs an ego boost and a look at the future.
Hope everyone has a great day. No goofing off here like yesterday for me! It's a definate buckle down with work day!!
Yes, the old "I should be over this" is something most folks can't understand & it can feel quite embarrassing. I have a few close friends (including my mom) who are understanding, but even then, I keep my comments mostly to myself.
I think many of us who have been around this long or longer and still want our H to come home feel this very same thing.
It's like what is wrong with us that we don't let go and move on. Or look at us, how much we loved our H and believe in G-d and trust him that he can bring them home for R. Just a thought, but certainly I understand it.
One thing though, when I think it, Mimi reminds me, who says we have to be over this. Why are we listening to what other people say. In the end how we complete this chapter in our life is left up to G-d and his plan for us. One thing I hold onto tight as you do is it's certainly going to be better than what we have now, maybe even magnificent.
it may be time to re-visit my list of things I LIKE about myself, things that I consider such wonderful Blessings in my life, the things that I have Changed for the better, and start a new 'things I want to do" lists.
Self-reflection is always good and helps us to ask G-d where we are going in his his plan for us. Its also a way of seeing our progress and taking care of ourself and being proud of how far we have come.
And you have come SO FAR.....
Hi Bugs,
Just dropping by to say HI. Following closely how you are processing your current situation. You are getting some good advice and insights. And I would agree, it might be helpful to you to see what Steve H.'s take is on it.
As it has been suggested, with OP out of the picture, Drac may just be starting to realize the reality and consequences of his choices... If he thinks that he has poor judgement and has made poor choices....he may not be ready to make any OTHER decisions for the moment!
I think during my kid free nights tonight & tomorrow it may be time to re-visit my list of things I LIKE about myself, things that I consider such wonderful Blessings in my life, the things that I have Changed for the better, and start a new 'things I want to do" lists.
Yes!...this will help get the focus back on...YOU! ...and that's good!
Bugs
Happy Monday everyone!
Well, it's not so much a 'happy' Monday, but not UNhappy either. I really need to do a better job of figuring out how to get independently wealthy overnight, as this 'work' thing stinks!
Nothing extra special to report,,,,and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It was a kid weekend. Friday night we just chilled out at home. Chicken tacos were a big hit for dinner and I made up a big pot of chili for post-game lunch Saturday.
DSS didn't have meds for the weekend so he was more of a handful than usual. I don't know why I bothered, but I did email Drac & asked if DSS was completely out. He replied "yes, DSS did not tell me until this morning". I won't bother to comment other than to say what a load of cr@p.
Saturday we had DSS's final football game of the season. It was COLD! My mom came, but only stayed until 1/2 time (too cold & they were getting creamed by the best team in their division). Drac showed up late, but still had the nerve to come sit by me, even with my mom there.
He seemed a bit less nervous, but it was really strange how he'd lean over (close) to talk to Ladybugs who was sitting on my lap, so that it was like he was talking to me, too. In fact, most times I had no choice but to look at him as he was right in my line of sight as I watched the game. I will admit to a few remaining butterflies in my stomach when he looked straight into my eyes several times. I kept my cool, calm Goddess composure.
After the game we came home for chili. Kids helped do house cleaning and played outside when it warmed up. We went to a movie & dinner. An overall nice evening.
Sunday was church. I was pleased that DSS decided to stay for part of the youth day events they were having. Ladybug and I went to the store and bought 2 of the biggest pumpkins we could find. Picked up DSS and it was the Pumpkin Carving Party in the driveway.
The neighbor kids came over to help, and both their parents came by, too. They ended up bringing their pumpkin over to carve as well. We use the books of designs that turn out really cool, and they had never tried that before. We all had a GREAT afternoon. Then, all too soon it was time to take DSS to Drac's.
I was waiting in the car for Ladybug to come back out after going in to say hi to Drac. He came out with her & the puppy. I wasn't paying much attention at first, but then he had to walk by the car to get the puppy (I hadn't noticed the dog until then). I was looking at the puppy out the window as Ladybugs was climbing in the car, so then here comes Drac around to my side of the car to show me the puppy. I gave a it rub on the head & as a couple of other dogs were walking by, I said "There's a couple of girlfriends for you". Drac then found it necessary to tell me that the puppy had a girlfriend all weekend at his dad's house. I really hate it when he tells me things that have anything to do with where he was or what he was doing for the weekend.
I am VERY excited about this afternoon. At 4 pm, I will be doing the paperwork so OFFICALLY my house, as well as the debt, are in MY name. I can't believe it's taken so long to get this all done.
I am going to call my parents and ask them to meet us for dinner to celebrate. I have a pretty big check to write to them for what they had put down originally. It is going to feel GREAT to write that one, even if it is big. I owe them a lot for all they have done for me.
Well, as I am not YET independently wealthy, I guess I'd better get back to work!
Hope everyone had a great weekend.
Bugsy:
You post all that great stuff and nobody even says "Hello!"
Glad the house is "all yours" now...
Let Ladybug off your lap. There is NO REASON to look into those eyes if she ISN'T on your lap.
Think about it this way, Drac did it SO he COULD look into your eyes. You would have NEVER leaned over like that if Ladybugs was on HIS lap. Right? So don't fall into his trap.
LG
Wow, Bugs, lotsa great stuff!
You are handling things so well. I know it would be difficult for me to have such constant contact with WxH. I admire the grace in which you are able to do it.
I am VERY excited about this afternoon. At 4 pm, I will be doing the paperwork so OFFICALLY my house, as well as the debt, are in MY name.
That is so awesome!!!
Fox
Thanks for taking pity on me LG!
I just figured it was just way too boring of a post to get anyone's attention!
I'm so glad to finally have the house situation resolved. Dinner with the parents last night was really good.
Let Ladybug off your lap. There is NO REASON to look into those eyes if she ISN'T on your lap.
I laughed when I read this,,,becuase I think I would have frozen to death without her on my lap! ha! Seriously, I hear what you are saying. It's no different than him coming outside w/the puppy as his excuse. Just getting my attention for whatever reason. Maybe seeing if I'll take such a small crumb and ask for more?
Kind of like today,,,,I had to take Ladybug to the dr for a strep test, so I sent an email to let him know. He replied, "ok, thanks. We had a 'critical' incident today at X office, so I am buried up to my neck today".
Now that detail wasn't necessary. I will be honest, it was my first instinct to reply back asking what happened and if everyone was ok. I didn't,,,,,,,,,,,,but I really wanted to.
So, turns out Ladybug does NOT have step throat,,,just regular old toncillitis. She really doesn't feel all that bad, but she had the classic white spotted tonsils this morning so I'm glad we went to have it checked. I don't want her getting sick for Halloween!
She is playing around the house, but is being very good about letting me get some work done. She's been VERY vocal this last week about me getting a 'boyfriend'. Even today she made some mention about needing a man in the house!! So we had a bit of a a talk about it. She eventually said that if I had a man in the house and Daddy had another girl, then we'd know what it was like without each other,,,,,,,,,,,and then maybe we'd figure it out and get back together. I don't know if she said that last part because she thinks that is what *I* want or if that was truly her logic. Apparently she is also encouraging Drac in the dating arena.
Or perhaps he is encouraging her which is what has led her to encouraging me. Who knows? I find it a bit bothersome in any event. I did tell her I am perfectly happy without having 'a man in the house', I am dating different people, but it will be some time before there would be anything that serious.
I don't think I mentined that V is out of town this week. He had let his friends who live close to me borrow his truck over the weekend. They needed a place to park it, so I told him they could leave it in my driveway until he gets back. Maybe having the truck here & knowing it belongs to someone I'm dating has triggered some of this talk???? Just a thought.
Thanks for the compliments Foxx,,,,but I don't know how well I really handle the interaction. I guess I'm not doing too badly, as it no longer ruins my entire day, nor do I think about it non-stop for the next 2 days, nor do I worry about planning for the next time around. I'm happy with that for now.
It's time for a Ladybug attention break,,,,,,,,,,I'll check back with you all later.
She eventually said that if I had a man in the house and Daddy had another girl, then we'd know what it was like without each other,,,,,,,,,,,and then maybe we'd figure it out and get back together.
Out of the mouth of babes as they say. She's really been thinking about this. I'm sure that was tough to hear. I think you handled it right though. I'd be curious to hear how Drac handled it cause I bet she's said the same thing to him.
Oh and congrats on the house! I look forward to the day when I own a home again.
Even the little bit easier it is these days is progress Bugs.. don't try to convince yourself otherwise. We've got to take steps to get to where we need to be, and you're right.. so long as we keep lookin up..
I can imagine it's a little triggering for you to have Ladybug encourage you to date.. I imagine it's a combination of a few things.. maybe she really does hope it'll lead to you getting back together with Drac.. but I imagine there's also an element of replacement fantasy that happens with kids her age.. knowing that it just doesn't feel right -to her- to be in a single parent house..
My DS is exactly the opposite though.. he's very wary of women I chat with, even the waitress I always end up conversing with on Saturdays... his attitude towards her has gone from 'She's pretty..' to 'I like her.. she's nice'... to '*crickets*' to *climb on daddy's lap when she comes around* to.. 'I don't like her.. because you like her daddy.. like a mommy..'
Now I can't say the thought didn't cross my mind.. she's very attractive, easy to talk to, smart.. however.. she's very young.. old enough to drink, but not by much.. just wouldn't work.
But anyhow.. back to the point.. as time goes on I'm sure she'll get used to it and thrive.. and if you end up with someone, I'm sure you'll have made a much better choice and she'll end up better off all around.
You're doing a great job Bugs..
Hi Bugs,
Just got caught up... I enjoy reading your updates, so, if they do you good... keep them coming!
Congrats on the house.
I see Drac is still trying to see if you will only accept 'crumbs'...
I am with LG...you don't need any of this.... Drac knows the deal.... he commits...or he leaves you alone to go on with your life!
I think you're doing great.
Hey, Bugs
How did the appointment with Steve go?
Thanks for the great posts everyone! I started to reply to SD's question (that I've been expecting) this morning, when my day went down the tubes.
I'll answer that quickly first,,,,I started to put together my 'updated timeline' for Steve and frankly found it just too depressing/triggering to finish. Thoughts of why am I even bothering with this were overwhelming, so I decided to give it a break for a few days and try again later this week or next. That may or may not have been a good decision,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Work was crazy right off the bat this morning and I had a lot that needed immediate attention. A brief lull between 'projects' came and I needed to drive over to another office for some supplies. Went out, got in the car. Dead battery.
3 months ago when this happened, as you may recall, Drac offered to come help but I declined. At the time he did tell me that I am still on the AAA membership and that I could use it anytime. He'd renewed it and kept us both on it.
So, I called Triple A. They nicely explained, "We don't have a Bugsmom as a member, but under Drac's account we do have THE HO"
Anyone want to guess how this felt?
Yep
So, I emailed Drac "I thought you told me I was still on the AAA membership. They tell me the Ho is but I am not"
He replied "Not sure how that is possible. I never did anything but renew my membership, I never changed anything. When did you need them? If I need to I can call them"
I replied that I needed them now because my car would not start. Apparently he got right on the phone (left a meeting to go do it). While he was on the phone with them, he called me from the office he was at 3x (I was on the phone & didn't know it was him).
When I answered he said, "I'm on the phone w/AAA and am drawing a blank on your birthday"
OUCH!
I told him. He replied, "I was thinking February". He told me he was getting it fixed and that he'd go ahead and have them send someone out, but that I should call AAA again to confirm. He sent me an email to let me know it was all done.
So - - here comes the even more dumba$$ part - I replied "Sorry to have had to bother you. I appreciate it. It's really hard being all on my own when these things happen. Thanks again"
Why did I say that?
Oh, and it gets better. AAA called me to let me know a truck was on the way. I thanked the guy who said, "no problem" and called me by the HO's NAME!! I almost threw up.
So, I emailed Drac again and told him that they'd called. A truck was on the way, "thanks again, Oh and BTW - my day keeps getting better and better, the guy called me by the Ho's name."
Later he replied to my email, "I am sorry. My only thought is that she did this at some point in time without my knowledge. Again, I am sorry. I hope everything is taken care of."
This story is going to have to be continued,,,,I need to take care of some evening appointments. I'll tell you now that this followed up with a phone call from Drac - - suffice it to say that I feel really dumb. dumb . dumb.
I'll be back with ya'll later.
It can't be any worse than what you have already gone through. Come back and tell us the rest....
Sorry for the interruption, but I had to meet a friend to get them a key to the house to care for the ‘wild kingdom’ of animals this weekend!
So, I am working along after getting the car squared away when the phone rings. Without looking, I answered. Drac.
He first asked about the car and it was fairly short & sweet. I KNEW that there had to be more to come when he said something about ‘adding to my day of bad news’. He got a call from the asst. principal at DSS’s school. Surprise, surprise, his English grade isn’t any better. DUH!
He went into the conversation w/the principal as well as his discussion with DSS. He made it a point to tell me that he told DSS that I’d ‘probably’ be talking to him about all of this as well. The good news is that for a change, he has a specific plan to address things with REAL actions on HIS part, DSS’s part, the principal is involved, as are all of the teachers. FINALLY. He went into feeling at a loss about ‘punishment’. He apparently ‘relieved’ DSS of any household responsibilities to “allow him to focus only on football & school. Mostly because he is tired of fighting with DSS to get him to do anything, and when he did get him to do things it was always done half a$$. He went on to say that HE does all of the household work now so that the kids can ‘just enjoy their time together’ when they are both there. He ‘can’t’ get Ladybugs to clean her room either.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,dumba$$ Bugs finally can’t stand it anymore. I piped up and helped.
I told him that he’s teaching DSS to do nothing or to do it poorly by taking away his household responsibilities. DSS and DD have responsibilities here. I don’t ‘ask’ I expect it and I make sure it happens. Period. With BOTH kids. I explained how you can’t just send a 7 year old into her room and expect her to clean it. I walked him through how to teach/help her to do it.
What was I thinking???????????? I know it will help the kids in the long run, so I’m using that as my excuse, but I’m really mad at myself for doing it.
He then went on to share with me issues he had this week at work
Finally, the conversation was wrapping up and I made it a point to tell him how the
AAA guy who came to work on the car ALSO called me by the Ho’s name. He replied, “I am really sorry about that. I can understand how horrible that was for you.”
Instead of saying, REALLY? You can REALLY understand? I just moved the conversation to an end.
I’m just really mad at myself and feel really dumb for meeting needs for him again. I have lots to take care of here at home tonight, so can’t elaborate much more right now. I need to process this all a bit more anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,gotta get past feeling so dumb. I hate this feeling.
I also hate that it means something to me that he FINALLY has said he was sorry in any way about anything having to do with the Ho. Settling for crumbs again. YUCK!
I'm with the hugs crew here
Bugsy
That, and I figure the thought of a hot young bald stallion of a bass player huggin on ya might help... plus I'm big enough around that it's hard to hit yourself when yer huggin.
And since Foxy ain't around yet to say it.. I'll beat her to the punch..
There..
Don't beat yourself up about this Bugsy.. sure it's caused you some triggering.. that's enough punishment without you heaping more of it on yourself.
You did what you did for the kids, out of love for them.. it had nothing to do with Drac. There's nothing to be ashamed of or upset about in that.
I'm sure the AAA thing was triggering as well.. but it sounds like you handled it the best you could.. and you know what? Drac's apology -should- have made you feel better.. at LEAST on some level he's acknowledging the pain he's caused you.. is it enough to start a R on? No.. but you know that.. and it doesn't relieve him of any further responsibility.. but unless I've missed something somewhere.. you're still taking applicants for the MAN WANTED position.. and Drac hasn't submitted a resume, and from this distance he's not looking like he's got the qualifications for the MAN position..
I'd offer my spare doghouse and kennel fencing for a new position outside the house for you.. but then I remembered that one of the qualifications for FAMILY DOG is 'LOYAL' and decided to scratch that idea..
Seriously though Bugs.. stop beating yourself up. You're surviving this the best way you know how.. eventually, if Drac doesn't discover what it takes to be the MAN.. you're going to have to find a way.. just like today.. to get on with him for Ladybugs's benefit.. You're really doing great.
Well, James is right. He beat me to the punch....on all of it. I second everything he had to say - and the hugs. 'course I can't beat a hug from a 'hot young bald stallion of a bass player."
You did fine. So what if you met some of his needs in regards to the kids? It's the kind of person you are. All will benefit. What exactly is the drawback? So Drac doesn't have to struggle quite as hard with the kids because you gave him a hand. So?
I wouldn't necessarily RUSH to do it everytime, but a hint of a reminder every once in a while to Drac about what a GREAT mother to his son and daughter you are is not all bad.
It won't make or break the situation. If the only way to stop beating yourself up about it is to hug James, then by all means hug James as long as you need to.
Take care, Bugsy!
Fox
then by all means hug James as long as you need to.
I'd check him for pig snot first.
Hi Bugs,
Being called by HO's name?...Ouch!
I’m just really mad at myself and feel really dumb for meeting needs for him again....
I also hate that it means something to me that he FINALLY has said he was sorry in any way about anything having to do with the Ho. Settling for crumbs again. YUCK!
I feel this way too sometimes... keep telling yourself that it's for the kids' benefit in the longrun...I find that usually helps a bit! ....and 'settling for crumbs', well that's another story. You'll think of something.
On the bright side....look at how many
this is getting you!
I'd offer my spare doghouse and kennel fencing for a new position outside the house for you.. but then I remembered that one of the qualifications for FAMILY DOG is 'LOYAL' and decided to scratch that idea..
I'd offer my spare doghouse and kennel fencing for a new position outside the house for you to offer him.. but then I remembered that one of the qualifications for FAMILY DOG is 'LOYAL' and decided to scratch that idea..
Fixed... wouldn't want any misunderstanding on that one..
Bugsy's a goddess.. Drac's the one who sleeps with the fleas.
Whew!!! I just now extracted myself from all of those hugs! THANKS SO MUCH all of you!
I was just really angry and upset over the whole situation yesterday - more than I realized & more than I wanted to be.
I don't know yet if I'm happy to have an 'I'm sorry' from Drac or not. As you all all said, it's a GOOD thing that perhaps he has recognized some of the pain his actions have caused me,,,,,,,,,,,but he's not requesting an application to be the MAN.
I am proud of the fact that I DO recognize that, even though I will also admit to wanting to give him a bit more credit than he has coming over it. Steve has warned me about this several times. I have to keep reminding myself about that and appreciate you all helping me with that, too!!
I am going to go get started packing for Chicago and finish getting our Witch costumes ready for tonight! Ladybugs and I are going to be twin witches for Trick or Treating!
Maybe I'll finally post our pic.
Thanks again everyone! I don't know what I'd do without you all!
Oh, and I took a shower after James hugs just to be sure to get off all that snot! ha!
Morning!
Seems like I've been gone a long time, even though it's just been a few days. I hope to catch up with everyone's threads today, but have lots of work to do.
The Girl's Chicago trip was FABULOUS! From Friday through Sunday we had an absolutely wonderful time. Laughing, shopping, eating, drinking, meeting fun people,,,,,it was such a great time. What a great town it is. I'm so glad I went.
Friday we were on the plane around noon. Lunch at the cafe at Ralph Lauren with a lovely glass of wine to kick off the weekend! Shopping, then a night out on Rush Street and breakfast. More shopping Saturday. Night out to Mike Ditka's, a side trip to the Sears Tower observation deck, and back to Ditka's. Ended up closing that place down,,,,,a certain celebritie's son was buying all of our drinks - what a Hoot! Sunday brunch and back home in the afternoon.
VMs from Drac did put a bit of a damper things. Ladybugs needed meds from the pharmacy for strep throat. I'd emailed Drac about it, and for some reason he took my emails to mean that he needed to pick HER up from my house on Friday,,,,,,,,,,,,,when I'd said he 'might' have to pick up her MEDS from my house. I'd emailed again Friday morning to tell him to pick up the MEDS at the pharmacy.
By the time I got his messages, he'd called my sister and figured it all out, so it wasn't necessary for me to speak with him. He apparently asked her about V's truck that is parked in my driveway right now,,,,,,,,,,,,she gave him a bit too much information but at least did not tell him exactly who it belonged to. UGH.
Thursday night we had a great time trick or treating in the neighborhood and then took a trip by my parent's house. Ladybugs & I were in our matching witch costumes. It was tons of fun. She got to go on Friday night to a Hallowee parade with Drac. Apparently he kept them running around all weekend,,,,to his Dad's on Sat and his Mom's on Sun. I was hoping she'd have a bit more restful weekend with being on the sickly side - but nothing to be done about that.
As much fun as I had, it was good to come home and be with her! V only sent me 2 TM's for the weekend,,,but was a bit overboard yesterday. We need to have a serious talk about things. He's a great guy, but I'm feeling pressured and I don't like it.
I have tons of work to accomplish today, so I'd better get to it.
Hope everyone had a great weekend, too!
Sounds like a great weekend!
Ironically as our kids get older, my girlfriends and I seem to have LESS time for this kind of stuff. We used to do it all the time! I miss that...
Just curious but what did your sister tell Drac that she shouldn't have? Anything about V? Hope not, because I think its way better for you to be under the radar with him...
Bugs -- get out there. Do not just date V. If he knows that he is the only one you are seeing, then he will treat this like a relationship. Keep some distance, keep meeting people.
If the timing isn't right -- then it ISN'T RIGHT. V will just have to accept that.
Morning!
Hope everyone had a great weekend. Mine was just so/so. Saturday was a bit rough, as DSS didn't bring his meds and was pretty wound up. Ladybugs didn't help much, either. Neither of them had much rest the 2 days before with Drac.
Seems he took them out to dinner Wed with his 'new friend', K. K is someone he worked with at the 'other' place, along with the HO. As you may recall, he got K hired at OUR place of work just before he & the Ho split up in June. I've always said that they were more than just 'friend's,,, , sorry to hear that I was right. I'd heard recently that she & her boyfriend were breaking up.
You'd think that he'd have learned by now that you don't fish off the company pier! I have to admit it really hurts. A Lot. More than I imagined and more than I like. Out of all of those women on match & out in the world, why in the world does he have to date someone at work??!!
Yesterday at drop off, both kids went in the house while I waited outside as usual. He came back out with Ladybugs and came over to the truck (I had driven V's truck because I was taking my broken mower up to my dad's for repair & frankly, wanted Drac to see me in it - - - petty,,,I know but I just couldn't help myself. I don't know what I truly wanted to accomplish? Jealousy? ). Anyway, he brought out a new AAA roadside assistance card to me,,,one with MY name on it.
I was surprised, and just said, "Thanks so much". He gave a half hearted smile, and said, "sure". He stood there waiting for Ladybugs to get strapped in. He looked at me a bit sadly and said, "Take care".
I don't understand why he didn't just send the card out with Ladybugs.
UGH!
I've had a mini-Mental/emotional rollercoaster weekend.
V is back today from being gone to Nebraska hunting. I'm sure I'll see him sometime this week. Lexxxy, he is well aware that I am seeing other people. I don't keep it a secret. I really like him, but am just not ready to jump in with both feet the way he seems to be. Especially not with the feelings I've had this week since hearing about Drac's new 'friend'. It's bothered me so much that I have no choice but to admit that I still have much to deal with in that regard.
Well, I gotta run. I am performing my civic duties this week - - reporting for jury duty!
Hope the sun is shining on all of you today!
Bugs,
I get the feeling it's WHO Drac is dating that's eating you up. He hasn't learn a d@mn thing. After everything he's gone through and all the destruction he's caused, he's turned right around and gone there AGAIN!! He's an idiot Bugs. A lost cause. I'm sure you see that now. I hope seeing it helps you get past it. He is not worth this.
and yeah, it's a good idea to keep the men in your life at an arm's distance while you get the last of him out of your system.
I think you're close Bugs, I'm hoping this is what you needed to completely let go.
Take Care
What BC said...
He's an idiot, Bugsy. You are better off without that stupid mug in your life, but it's going to take completely letting go of your hopes for any reconciliation to really move on. It's almost like a chronic illness that you suddenly find a cure for; takes some time for the meds to kick in and eradicate the disease...
You'll get there. I still have moments where I get angry with the Z, but they are few and far between because I have no expectations that he will be like I want him to be anymore. He will be who he IS, and that is actually much easier to live with and accept. That lovely little illusion of control is gone from my life, mostly.
Much love to you Bugsy. Hang in there girl
I was surprised, and just said, "Thanks so much". He gave a half hearted smile, and said, "sure". He stood there waiting for Ladybugs to get strapped in. He looked at me a bit sadly and said, "Take care".
Just a wild guess yanno, but he thinks you're moving on.
Hey, Bugs. How was the appointment with Steve?
You need a plan.
Are you Done or are you Not?
My gut reaction to your post was the same as BC's: enough with this loser already. Drac is an idiot who doesn't deserve to be with Bugs.
On the other hand, he's also probably a typical wayward spouse, and I for one believe in the concepts of Fog and that Waywardness is not necessarily a permanent state of being. And you still seem to want him back. I respect that, for Ladybugs' sake as well as yours.
So I don't know what to tell you on how to proceed other than to talk to Steve. Get Steve's blessing to be Done, or get a plan on how to make a final attempt to get your H back.
Plan Bugs seems like a lot of wheel-spinning.
One guy's opinion.
Bugsy
Bugs:
I'm with SDGuy on this. You need to get that appointment with SH to sort yourself out.
Drac is fishing in the same pond.
He keeps throwing you back.
No matter how much you try climbing into his boat, he pushes you back out.
Yep. He will tell everyone on the dock about the great, big fish he had. But all he brings in to the dock are the new ones.
Time to swim down the stream.
There are better hooks to feed from.
LG
Get Steve's blessing to be Done, or get a plan on how to make a final attempt to get your H back.
I agree wholeheartedly. I for one don't believe your done, and that's okay. This is your life. You'll know when you reach that point.
When I read the post about Drac taking the friend out to dinner with your DD, I wondered if maybe there wasn't as much to it as we think.
I dunno. Again, it's your life Bugsy. I'm rooting for YOU and your personal healing, whatever that looks like.
foot-tapping emoticon here........
Fox
foot-tapping emoticon here........
Fox
Yeah, wonder what's up?
HI Bug! Waiting to cheer you on in whatever direction you choose!
Dropping in to let you know I'm thinking about you!
Rin
She's in the courtroom right now, telling them that she's a Trash Queen who's connected enough to have people rubbed out in hopes that she will get dismissed from the jury.
Unless you broke out the Princess Leia costume. That worked for Liz Lemon.
She's in the courtroom right now, telling them that she's a Trash Queen who's connected enough to have people rubbed out in hopes that she will get dismissed from the jury.
Oh that's right. If she did get picked, I hope it's for a divorce trial with a WH.
Hey everyone!
I've been in the courtroom, and yes, I've made it clear that I am the Queen of Trash. One of my fellow prospective jurors is a competitor at the 'local ' level who knows Drac! Haven't gotten past the general discussions with him to see what he thinks/knows about Drac & I don't intend to! What are the chances of having someone else in the biz in the room?
Oh, I did mention about my connections when it comes to 'disposal' - it came up that Drac & I still work for the same company and I said yes, I'm still working on getting that 'disposed' of! ha!
I don't know yet if I'll be picked for this jury. It's an injury case in which the plantiff is going to be asking for
20 Million in damages,,,,so they are taking a whole lot of time in questioning the jurors.
I hope to know after lunch if I'm on the jury or not. If so, it's going to take at least until next Thursday before we get the case to deliberate!
I've really set aside my 'personal' thoughts for now. I don't have a 'plan' one way or another on any next steps. My 'spare' time has been spent keeping up with work and finishing up plans for Ladybugs Birthday Sleep Over Friday night. Yep, she's turning 8 and I'm having 5 little girls overnight. So, I'm totally focused on arranging the mani/pedi part of the party, along with a few games, prizes, etc.
Am still seeing V, and a few others from time to time. Nothing especially new to report on that front. Just taking it a day at a time.
I did have an email from Drac first thing Monday a.m. "What are your plans? I understand Ladybugs is having a sleep over. Are you wanting to have DSS over Saturday for a family party? I'm not trying to get in your business, just trying to make a plan for the weekend"
My take on that was him wanting to get DSS off his hands for part of the weekend. My friend's all say that he IS trying to get in my business. My answer to that is 'whatever'. He did ask last week if he can keep Ladybug Sunday night because I'm having her Fri for her birthday on what would normally be one of his nights. I replied to that email with "k". I couldn't come up with a shorter reply!! ha!!
Well, gotta run. Back to performing my civic duty!
Hope to catch up with you all later - hoping I'm not picked for the jury!
Yep, she's turning 8 and I'm having 5 little girls overnight.
Get plenty of rest before the party-- you're in for an all-nighter. My daughters had sleep-overs when they were little and it was chaos but boy was it fun!
Yep, she's turning 8 and I'm having 5 little girls overnight.
*shudder*
Hi Bugs,
....am here cheering you on along with everybody else!
BUGS
So what's up Bugs? Did the sleepover do you in? Did you get picked for the jury? Huh? Huh? Huh?
Hey Bugs,
What's happening in your world President GODDESS?
Thanks for the bump Luna! And to everyone else checking in on me!!
Yes, jury duty was quite interesting! It was also very difficult and sad at the same time. Rather than go into all of the details, suffice it to say that the person who had filed suit against a major corporation experienced a horrific, life-altering injury. Unfortunately, the corporation he was suing in this case was not at fault for his accident. A different corporation is respsonsible, and I hope that he was awarded sufficient damages in that case. We were not allowed to know that information during the trial.
My jury service did not end until Thursday of last week. Every day I was so mentally & emotionally exhausted, I did not feel up to working or even posting here. I'm glad I did it, but it was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life.
The one 'bright' spot in it all was to see how a truly loving, committed couple can endure and even thrive under the most horrific of circumstances. This man & his wife are role models in how marriage is supposed to be. They have been married for 45 years and you can tell just by watching them how very much they love one another.
Ladybugs sleepover was a 'success'. The girls all had a wonderful time. I survived!! We only had one moment of 'drama' which did not last long, so I can't complain at all. She had her party at Drac's but hasn't really shared many details about it - although the new 'girlfriend' was there. I'll just refer to her as K from now on. Seems K also took them all out Wednesday night this week 'for her birthday' to a pizza/arcade place. She called while in the game room there Wed night,,,,,,,,,,,at the time she should have been getting ready for bed! Oh well, nothing I can do about that.
I sent Drac email last Mon with Ladybugs mid-term grade report. He replied with a quite friendly email, asking about my thoughts on her taking her new electronic gifts back & forth between our houses. I told him I agree with the concerns he listed about her having them during school & that I had not planned on allowing her to have the gift I gave her at school. He asked my ideas on how to get it back & forth,,,,,,,,,,,,I told him I had no ideas. He then asked that I make sure she have the gift he gave her with her on Wed. That was it.
Friday after picking her up after school, she was upset with me because she'd made plans to go see a movie and even invited some of her friends to go with me. Only problem is that she hadn't talked to me first. That doesn't work & we had that talk. She was not happy. She was further 'upset' with me because I would not commit to taking her to see the movie until I had checked it out more,,,,it is a PG movie that I was not familiar with and told her I'd need to find out more before agreeing that she could see it.
Then,,,,,,,,,she says "Fine. I'll just ask Daddy to take me!".
Do I need to tell you all my reaction to that statement??!!! Suffice it to say that I made it perfectly clear that kind of stuff will NOT happen. She was upset and did apologize. She then informed me that she is going to miss her Christmas dance recital because it is the weekend that Drac is taking them to Florida. She is very, very disappointed about it. He did not know about the recital in advance, so it is not his fault about the timing.
We were on our way to pick up DSS - - as we got close to Drac's house, she tells me that she does not want to go inside when we get there. I told her that is her choice, but Drac probably would not be home. She said he would be because he'd taken the day off from work. Apparently he's using up his vacation days by taking Fridays off. He was there so I honked the horn when we pulled in. DSS came out asking if Ladybugs was coming in. I said no, she didn't feel like it.
Well, Drac came out to the car to talk to her. I sat in the front and didn't comment while they talked. He showed concern that she 'didn't feel good'. I have to give her credit, she told him that she was upset about not getting to go see her movie AND that she is going to miss her dance recital. He was nice and handled it fairly well with her. I made no comments, as it isn't my place to get in the middle of what I consider his time/plans with her. DSS got in the car and we pulled out. I noticed Drac stood in his doorway watching us leave. I noticed later in the evening he'd sent an email about Ladybugs, but I haven't read it yet. I can't say that I am all that anxious to read it. I'm so much better off with limited interaction with him & I really needed a relaxing weekend.
Things are going well with V. He's been out of town for work a lot, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. We talk on the phone which is good in the 'getting to know one another' department. We've also exchanged several emails. I've been very up front about where I stand. That I enjoy our time together, but I am in no way ready for a relationship yet. He says that he's ok with that although it's pretty obvious that he is ready for more than that. There's no pressue from him, though, so as long as it remains that way I feel good about it. We've agreed to take it one day at a time and see where it goes.
I was on jury duty with a guy who works for one of my work competitors. He also works for a friend and former co-worker of mine who I haven't talked to in quite a while. I emailed 'M' to say hi and touch base as it has been a few years since we've seen each other. In his reply, he admitted to having a 'prior crush' on me & that he'd always thought I was good looking. He further added that his employee informed him that I am a "Babe"! Made me feel good. We are going to try to go to lunch sometime next week.
So,,,,lots and yet nothing has really happened during my brief absence from the board. Hope all is well with everyone. I hope to catch up with everyone in the next day or two.
Have a great day all!
Bugs:
Jury duty CAN wear you out.
That whole "civic duty" thing, and trying to do the "right thing"
The rest? Sounds like life after Drac.
Good luck with the dating...
LG
Thanks for the update, Bugs.
You sound good.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,the cell phone rings tonight with a "Private" call. I miss it by just one ring, which was good, as I was getting Ladybugs ready for bed.
Later it rings again, "Private", but I answer. It's the HO.
So, I take a deep breath and just
She called to apologize,,,,,,,,,,,,
BUTOh yes, the fog is still fairly thick in her world. Anyone surprised?
I won't bore you with the specifics but will tell you that I do believe she has finally gotten a clue as to what she has done. I do believe she is sorry. But she is mostly sorry for herself. She wanted my forgiveness. I did not give or deny it.
Long story short she "was lied to". She would "never, never" be "one of those women". I told her, sorry, but you ARE one of those women.
She CHOSE. It's hers to live with. She told me how she had been lied to, how she'd "hoped" I'd be "more open" with her,,,,,,,,,,,,,,OMG. It was incredible.
I will say that I handled it in true Goddess Style. I did and said what I knew was in my heart,,,tempered with what God laid on my heart. I left her to own her own actions, I was honest with the facts of the destruction she helped bring to my life and the lives of my children.
I did give her that it takes 2, and that she was not solely responsible. Yet I let her know that any apology that includes a "BUT" is not a true apology. That until she takes FULL responsibility for her actions without 'justifications', it means very little to me.
She tried SEVERAL times to say that if only I'd confronted her, she'd NEVER have done what she did. I put it right back on her and said that I would NOT accept responsibility for HER actions.
She "didn't want to open old wounds for me",,,but kept pressing and needing something more from me than I could give. At the end I even said to her, "I feel like I have been gracious here. yet here you are, acting as if I, as the woman whose life you helped destroy, whose family you helped tear to shreds, should somehow commiserate with you over being lied to. sorry, but I'm not doing that. yes, I was lied to. I am sure you were lied to as well. I have my path. You have yours. I have dealt with mine. You need to deal with yours"
I cut off getting "specifics', other than she had to tell me several times that when Drac went to work with her, he came in telling everyone from the beginning that he was "in the middle of a divorce". I don't know that I totally believe that, but would not be totally surprised to hear that it is true either.
I must say that she was certainly surprised to know that finally "cut him off" in August of last year!! The Bee-atch in me felt good getting that in the conversation.
So, I'm not nearly as upset as I might have been a short while ago, but it has me wound up. I am,,,,,,,,,,,well I don't know what I am right now.
i just had to report in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hopefully I can get some thought together about this later. I'll share when I can,,,,,,,,,,,,
Bugs:
That was awesome! Not sure I could have been as restrained as you are...I would happily kill the OM if I ran into him and my xWW knows it (ok...I would like to, but wouldn't).
"Vengeance is mine saith the Lord"
OMG!!!! I can hardly believe this!
I'm sorry BUGS if this triggered you in any way! I hope that you are able to put your mind at ease in some form from the way that you handled things! YOU DID WELL! The FORCE was with you! The MB force that is! LOL
I think like you, I think that she does have a clue but not the right one! Perhaps in the right direction but that reminds to be seen.
I'm sure that she "felt" that she HAD to call, hence the phone call twice. It appears to me that she was in a place to get some things off her chest but like you said an apology with a BUT just doesn't cover it!
I really need to update my thread, you mentioning OW has brought some things to mind that I need to get some thoughts on.
Way to go BUGS! I've been trying hard to keep up with you!
I was surprised that she called BUT in a way I'm not...I know from me own experience that when my heart is heavy, I have to take care of it right then and there;otherwise, I don't rest. I hope that she is still not resting well and that you have given her MORE TO THINK ABOUT!
My hat's off to you! Reading what you said to her, I know that I would have said some of the same things. I can't imagine how you are feeling right now, becasue I ahve no clue how I would feel if the same things was done happen to me!
((((((BUGS)))))))
Wow, Bugsy!!!
You did amazingly well. I am so impressed by you.
Share details when you can.....I'd bet the farm that I won't ever get a call like that.
Fox
Share details when you can.....I'd bet the farm that I won't ever get a call like that.
+1
Well.. not from WB at least...
I still have a 'drink' to look forward to with the co-worker's anger management challenged husband tho.. funfun
Sorry Charlie... she's your wet baby now..
Wow Bugs. And after all of this time too.
What do you think the trigger was that made her call you? I can't believe it was just plain old remorse. There must be something more to it than that.
Tell us more.....
Well, I think I've bombed everyone's threads so I guess it's time to give some details on my own.
Chai - I am fairly certain that the 'trigger' for the Ho was finding out that I was on jury duty last week with a friend of hers. I'm sure he told her about Drac's latest conquest who works where Drac & I work. The Ho used to work with her, too! They were supposedly 'friends' at one time so the true trigger is that she is probably finally experiencing a bit of her own medicine & found out how bad it is.
I think she was hoping to get me to join with her in a joint Drac bashing bonding moment. Yeah,,, like that would EVER happen! I have all of you fine folks to help me out when I feel like bashing him! ha! :twobyfour: As if she thinks that she doesn't deserve to be right there beside him in it ALL. :twobyfour:
So, here's a bit more detail. It's kind of jumbled up but it's so hard to remember the order in which anything was said. She said a lot of it over and over again, as if she was going to convince me she was 'right'.
I'll try to put 'her' stuff in
REDMy cell phone rang a little after 8 but I missed the call. The caller i.d. said "private". I didn't think anything of it, because sometimes V's # comes up that way, depending on where he is traveling. It rang again about 8:40 and I answered.
She told me who she was & I asked her WHY she was calling me
She just went off talking non-stop -= said she had never thought in a million years that she would ever be calling me. She'd 'learned' things over the last few months since "we broke up" and then just recently and she just HAD to call.
She said,
"I'm sorry,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but you need to understand how terribly I was lied to!!" And so it went for the bulk of the conversation. She was "Sorry, but,,,,,,,,,,"
I finally told her that any apology followed by the word 'but' is not an apology, it is a self-justification. That by saying that, she is not taking full responsibility for HER actions and that her supposed apology means nothing to me.
Here's some of the things I recall her saying -
I never dreamed I'd ever call you
I've found out so much over these last few months and recently,,,,I felt I needed to do this
I'm not the kind of person who would EVER EVER EVER do something like this BUT I was lied to!! (this was said over & over again)
He came into X Place of Work telling everyone that he was in the middle of a divorce
I asked around and I was told you guys were OVER - I told her this was a bunch of crap and that she CHOSE to acknowledge what she wanted to acknowledge and to ignore everything else. She was only justifying her actions AGAIN
I am a good person, ask anyone who knows me - - again, she said that over and over
I'm a CHRISTIAN
I've been in your shoes - - I told her she could NEVER have done what she did if that were true
If you had only confronted me, this never would have gone on - She said that several times until I finally told her that was enough of that because she isn't going to put ANY of HER actions on ME.
I 'wish' that you guys had worked things out - that he would have stayed with you but he kept telling me how it was over
I thought that by calling you this might bring you some healing, too - - I told her I don't need anything from her in order to 'heal'.
I needed to do this to heal myself - I'm pretty sure I told her I didn't really care anything about what she needed
You don't 'know' me
I don't want to 'open old wounds'
You can hate me if you want, you can say whatever you want, but I'm not a bad person
I'm not one of "those" women
I was vulnerable
I was lied to!!
I thought you would be more "open" with me
I am sorry,,,,,,,,,,, BUT
You have no idea the lies that I was told
One of the reasons I left him was that I'd found a letter that you'd written to him at the end,,,,and I figured out how much I'd been lied to - - I asked her, "let me guess, you also found out that you weren't the 'only one' didn't you?" She would not answer. I'm pretty sure this had to be my Plan B letter. Intersting that he kept it??
I "know" you sent me 2 letters,, it HAD to be from you because the first one in Feb 2007 said that he was still sleeping with his wife - - - now this is after saying she had NO idea that we were still together at all - - I don't know what letters she is referring to, but I have a feeling a close friend of mine may have done that without telling me but I don't know yet for sure.
"Looking back, going thru this did turn out to be a 'good thing' for me" - to which I replied, well forgive me if I don't give a [censored]
"Aren't you better off now? Aren't you???" - - I told her that was none of her business. She didn't care anything about me or my kids or my life before, the last thing I was going to do is share with her now
I want you to know that one of the reasons I had to do this is because I care for Ladybugs SO MUCH - -at this point I was ready to go through the phone and rip out her throat. If she cared so much for Ladybugs, she wouldn't have helped break up her parents. There's a lot of things she could have said (and did say) that hurt me personally, but when she wanted to bring my kids into the conversation she overstepped. It was right after this that I put an end to the call - - I didn't hang up on her but made it clear I was not going to discuss anything further with her.
She said she's wasn't surprised to learn about him & the latest Ho,,,but of course she doesn't care at all & thinks they are both messed up. It cracked me up when she said that she is not friends with Ho2,,,hasn't talked to her since she left X Place of Work but "it's not that I dislike her or anything". GEEZ, what a 2 faced bee-atch. Can't even admit to her me, her new best friend, that she doesn't like Ho2.
I laughed out loud when she told me she was a 'Christian', to which she took great offense. I told her several times, "Your actions speak for the kind of person you are".
I told her that I do not require anything from her to 'heal' and that I'd put her out of my life/thoughts a long time ago. When she said she didn't want to open old wounds, I replied, "Well it's to f'ing late now".
I mentioned at one point about not knowing what would have happened if I hadn't finally cut him off last August. The silence was deafening,,,,,,,,,,,so I continued and said, "Oh, I guess you didn't know that it was ME that cut him off? And you probably had no idea that it went on until August of last year did you? Hmmm, HURTS doesn't it?" Of course she denied that it hurt, but I didn't let her off the hook - - - I told her that I KNOW that it hurts "take it from someone who knows first hand".
She just kept going on and on. I finally asked, "Are you done yet? Have you said what you needed to say? Do you FEEL better? Because this is doing nothing for me"
I told her she will ALWAYS be one of 'those' women in my mind. She wanted me to talk to her about the 'lies' he'd told me. I told her that it is in the past and not something I was going to discuss with her. Yes I was lied to, but I've dealt with that. She made/chose her own path and she was going to have to live with it.
I did tell her that they BOTH bear responsibility in this. Drac did fact lie to BOTH of us. I've dealt with that. She chose her path and she has to deal with her own choices.
I said, "What do you expect from me? You participated in the utter destruction of my life and are responsible in the tearing apart of my family and the damage it has done to my kids. How can you possibly expect me to do any more than I have already? I've listened to you and I have been gracious. More gracious than what you deserve."
That's as much as I can recall right now. I don't know if it's really done me any good to put it into words or not. There's tons more things she said, all of which was pretty incredible to believe she was saying to me.
I'm just so PISSED. How DARE she? Talk about being blind sided. Last month I get called by her name, then I find out that he's seeing Ho2 - - and no one had the decency to give me a heads up so I wouldn't be blind sided at work, and now this?! Plus, it goes back to how DARE he in the first place? He pulls this [censored] and here I am STILL bearing the brunt of his actions and he doesn't have a clue or give a [censored]. HE should be the one having to deal with this crap, not me.
Yesterday I hadn't felt so horrible in a long, long time. I've felt sick to my stomach, I had a horrific headache, and my neck/shoulders feel like the are made of steel. I didn't sleep much, and when I did, I had nightmares.
The only reason for her call is that she wanted me to tell her she is not a bad person. She didn't and doesn't and never has cared about me or how I feel/felt. It was all about her. Not surprising,,,it took a pure selfish [censored] to do what she did and she sure hasn't changed.
So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's the story for what it's worth.
I can't beleive she had the nerve to try and blame shift. She has taken none of the responsibility for her actions. She is not worth you spending any time thinking about her. Hold on to what you have and praise God you still have your DD.
Thanks BH for the earlier heads up on my post,,,,I had time to fix it just before a conference call.
You are right,, and I do give the good Lord thanks & praise every day for my Ladybug and for DSS both.
I am doing better today. Yesterday was rough. Having it all rather thrown all up in my face yet again really did hurt. Yet, I can think about 'her' with little emotion. As you say, not worth my time. It's just sickening Drac chose to be with her while throwing away our marriage. What a disappointment that he did all of that for such a piece of selfish trash.
I did end up talking to him last night about Thanksgiving schedule. Kind of like Foxx's ex - he hates email and got really pissy without justification. I called him on it 'literally'. I didn't really trigger from talking to him and had no desire to tell him about the phone call. A friend of mine seems to think that he should be made aware of it. I don't. I see no point.
Good news is that I have Ladybug tonight and tomorrow until 12:45. He made a big point of telling me 1. "I'm cooking dinner for us". 2. "I'm having dinner for just the 3 of us". I seriously doubt it is just the 3 of them. If that were the case, his dad would be coming over. I'd guess Ho2 will be there, too.
So, while Ladybug gets to see my family for a while, she doesn't get to eat with us,,,,,,,,,I think it's silly but whatever. I'm just glad to have her when he could have taken her tonight and kept her thru Sun. Yeah!
Bugsy
Dang woman.. you managed to handle that call with a fair bit more class than I would have. Good on you for standing your ground and not letting the HO off the hook.
Wait.. was that just the Karma bus wizzing past?
My thoughts about Drac and the ho's phone call .... I'll just quote someone smart ....
"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
AMEN!
Pep:
Do you think that post of Bugs needs to go to your "notable posts" thread?
Not often we get to see that type of interaction here.
LG
Ewwww..
I seriously don't know how you refrain from unleashing Plan FU on Drac.
And you really got some nice shots at the HO. She'll be stewing because she was unable to convince you that she's a nice girl.
(even tried to be the victim....wow.)
What a piece....
My thoughts about Drac and the ho's phone call .... I'll just quote someone smart ....
Quote:"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
AMEN!
Hey LG!
I don't know how 'noteable' my post was. Sad perhaps. Pathetic, for sure, at least in what the Ho had to say.
I'd say overall, it's just typical OW and wayward thinking
Lexxy, I'm glad someone else (besides me) sees that I was trying to let her stew in her own nastiness. I just felt like if I gave her a big FU, it would make it even easier for her to add to her list of justifications. I would not give her the pleasure. I was most certainly NOT going to give her the pleasure of thinking that a mere phone call or the sound of her voice was going to send me over the edge. She's NOT that powerful.
I imagined a really good Plan FU for Drac after the Ho's call. It was a good one, too!
Then, you know what? I didn't feel like I have that in me right now. After getting through yesterday, I just really didn't have that level of anger.
Don't get me wrong. Drac is the reason this evil vile person entered my life in the first place. Yes, it is his fault. For that alone he deserves a huge FU.
But, when I finally unleash a Plan FU,,,,and trust me it will happen someday, it's going to be focused on HIM and HIS actions. I won't be listening to him Blame Shift the way the Ho tried. It won't be about the Ho. It will be about him and only him. That's the type of FU he deserves.
Again, for me, it's about the Personal Power. If I allow myself to give in to that kind of reaction to her call, her voice, and her
, then I am giving away my Personal Power. I am not going to make that mistake again. Whether it's letting her know that it bothered me or going off on Drac because of it, it would be the same.
Trust me, I have no doubt that he will know about the call,,,eventually. When it does happen, I want him to have to stop and wonder why I never said a word to him about it.
Just my way of dealing with it for now. I reserve the right to change my mind at any given moment!! ha!
Atta girl!!!
You are so right. Drac deserves his own FU someday. And it should be all about him and his choices.
And her? I am glad you didn't give her what she wanted. She needs to go earn it. She needs to stew in what she is, learn from it and change her ways. You are so exactly right that "sorry, but..." doesn't cut it. She needs to face what she did, own it, fix it, and then SINCERELY apologize for HER actions and HER choices. Not blame Drac. And not play victim of Drac. YUCK.
Pep:
Do you think that post of Bugs needs to go to your "notable posts" thread?
Not often we get to see that type of interaction here.
LG
proof read it for me - would ya please?
it's hard to get the
red quotes in the right places
Wow! How did I miss all this?
Bugs, who cares if he does not like to do business with emails? It's not his call. STOP talking to him.
Get a balloon, write his name on it, go outside and let it go. Let it go.
And by the way, great job with the Ho. She wanted freedom from her Marley-like heavy chains of guilt and you would not play.
Bugs,
YOu did well. You kept your cool better than MOST people would considering the circumstances.......
I do know that it still hurts though....Prayers with you girl....and DON'T let this ruin YOUR holiday.....
not2fun
Get a balloon, write his name on it, go outside and let it go. Let it go.
or, stomp the [censored] out of it
or, stomp the [censored] out of it
Well yeah, the Mossberg with a skeet choke when it gets about 30 yards out would be good.
Bugs,
Good job. Hopefully she got the message.
Brings to mind my call with the OW. Remember, the OW in my case lives 1000 miles away. I actually called her because I wanted to find out what the h3ll was going on. I really had a hard time putting much blame on her though. WH told her he was D'd. She said she began to suspect not, and started snooping to try to find out for sure. She started asking me all kinds of questions and it was apparent that she was lied to just as much as I was. If it's true that she got another BF, I'm sure she finally wised up and realized that WH is one big liar. She told me her 2nd H cheated on her with her best friend, and she apologized to me because she said she knew how it felt.
Drac and my WH sound like a good match for friendship. We should hook them up....
Hey thanks everyone for stopping by and for all of the kind words.
Wish I were skilled with firearms to use on that Drac balloon! Alas, I'll just settle for stomping the [censored] out of it! ha!
Seriously, I have done really well for a while not caring that Drac doesn't like email. I've stuck with it until yesterday. I think that the restraint I used with the Ho call weakened my powers,,,,,,,,,,I gave in to the accusation he threw at me, "You make it impossible to try to be nice". I just couldn't let that go.
I know, I know,,,, who cares what he thinks? I think that what got me was the fact that he was refusing to see that it wasn't ME causing issues - it was HIS interpretation of it all. I know, I know no point in trying to educate him.
I should have also stopped to think he did that jab on purpose. Remember, it's been about a month since I've saw him at DSS's last football game. Shame on me for allowing him to get a fix.
Pep - I'll take a look at that post for the red quotes,,,Thanks!
Obviously, I'm not really 'working' this afternoon. I just finished cleaning up around here and waiting for my 'mechanic' to bring back my car. V took my car and left me his truck last night as he insisted on rotating the tires before winter. Apparently he is also changing the oil and took it to the car wash for a full inside & out cleaning! I don't think anyone has ever done something like that for me before. Kinda nice.
"You make it impossible to try to be nice". I just couldn't let that go.
My response, "Well, that's okay, I'm not looking to MAKE things any way for you one way or the other. I'm just here to relay info about the kids..."
Difference is, I'm THERE. I'm done and seemingly, so is the Z. it's been smooth sailing since he left. I suppose if I still had even a teensy desire to recover, those types of statments would be difficult. *I* would still make them though, using the old mentality of 'fake it 'til you make it'.
If you are truly not interested in anything LESS than recovery, you will find it easier to cut DRAC off when he says insane [censored] like that
V took my car and left me his truck last night as he insisted on rotating the tires before winter. Apparently he is also changing the oil and took it to the car wash for a full inside & out cleaning! I don't think anyone has ever done something like that for me before. Kinda nice.
Oh no, he aint hooked!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2_wdMmEupQ&feature=related
I'm not sure which impressed me more,,,,,,,,,,
The fact that you found a video about Missouri Prairie Chickens
OR
The talk on the video about the males' "Colorful Sacks"!!
Hi Bugs,
I just felt like if I gave her a big FU, it would make it even easier for her to add to her list of justifications. I would not give her the pleasure.
I am with you....the call was all about HER and her needs...and how YOU could make her feel better...
...even though it looks likes it may have taken a lot out of you, Bugs, you can be proud for letting her know that she's not off the hook for her part!
I don't think it matters if Drac prefers to talk to you... if YOU are more comfortable with email, he doesn't get a vote. It sounds like you still 'care' Bugs, and you don't need to deal with any improvised 'comments' from him.
:happythanksgiving:
Again, for me, it's about the Personal Power. If I allow myself to give in to that kind of reaction to her call, her voice, and her , then I am giving away my Personal Power. I am not going to make that mistake again. Whether it's letting her know that it bothered me or going off on Drac because of it, it would be the same.
Ah, Mimi! I was so thrilled to see you back! Welcome & thanks for stopping by.
You know, don't you, that I was thinking of you when I posted about keeping control of my Personal Power?!! You helped me so much in remembering about my personal power some time ago & your encouragement helped me take it back. Thank you!
Luna, thanks for the support! I frankly don't care what Drac prefers for communication. I just know that I wasn't going to sit idly by letting him twist things around yet again. It was a moment and it has passed.
He came & picked up Ladybugs at my sisters early in the afternoon. She got to spend a little time w/my family but did not share a complete meal with us,,,she was ok with it. My family did a great job (as always) making sure she felt ok with it all. He apparently shipped both kids off to spend the night elsewhere last night,,,,,,,,,,just could not keep from his personal life long enough to spend 4 nights in a row taking care of his kids?!! UGH!
I will own up to wondering a bit about Drac on Thanksgiving. I ended up having to drive V's truck to my sister's house. V found a bad sensor on my car & would not let me drive it until it was fixed,,,and a part had to be ordered. I am curious,,,just a bit, if Drac noticed my car wasn't there but V's truck was. If he noticed, I did wonder what he might have thought. I know,,,useless waste of brain power but ya'll know I'm going to tell you the truth here even if it is silly useless thoughts!
So, it was a good holiday. Not perfect as I was without the kids but still I am quite Thankful for all of the Blessings I continue to receive. I spent Thurs. evening with V. He came over after hunting, still in his hunting clothes. It was a good thing, as we had ourselves a little adventure with my sisters.
My sister lives in the country. On his way to dinner, my brother spotted a young racoon in the ditch on her road. He stopped,,and was close enough to reach out and pet it. It was not afraid - did not appear to be 'wild' - and someone had given it a can of cat food. We were of the impression that perhaps someone had it as a pet and then dumped it because it was getting bigger.
Being raised as 'country girls & boy' we have had quite a lot of
experience with animals, including racoons. So,,,,,,,,,,when we took Grandma home later the raccoon was still there. It was there when we returned,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so we decided we had to implement a rescue mission. None of us could stand the thought of it getting hit by a car, starving to death, or getting eaten by a coyote.
Bugs holding the pet carrier, walking through the corn field/ditch in her Goddess wear, including Coach shoes,,,,,, sisters watching & baiting the poor thing into the carrier,,,,,laughing, joking, waiting for it to turn into an episode of "When Animals Attack" but finally getting it in to the carrier with a small bit of assistance from us. We have made arrangements for a local wildlife rescue/release sanctuary to take it. It was quite the adventure!!
A bit of shopping yesterday. A funeral home visitation with the family last night. One of my mom's long time friends passed away. Then home for a quiet evening.
Tonight is "Game Night" tournament at my sister's. 12 teams of 2 compete in various games,,,pool/darts/ping pong/washers,,,,I did it last year and we had such a GREAT time. I'm really looking forward to it and am taking V with me.
Hope everyone had a great holiday. I'm out to the yard before the rain/snow moves in later today. I'm going to clean up the last of the leaves, mow the front, and try to get some Christmas decorations up. Just checked the weather and it looks like I'd better get moving!!
Bugs holding the pet carrier, walking through the corn field/ditch in her Goddess wear, including Coach shoes,,,,,, sisters watching & baiting the poor thing into the carrier,,,,,laughing, joking, waiting for it to turn into an episode of "When Animals Attack" but finally getting it in to the carrier with a small bit of assistance from us. We have made arrangements for a local wildlife rescue/release sanctuary to take it. It was quite the adventure!!
Thanks for the visual
Pep,
You know I'm always happy to share the shananigans and adventures!! Glad to be a source of a smile when I can!
Saturday game night was a lot of fun. Wii Bowling/darts/ping pong/pool/etc. I am terrible at almost of the games, but had a good time. V ended up having a bit much to0 drink - - seems my sister mixed up some concoction that pretty much knocked him out. We put him in the spare room & carried on with the evening. He was terribly embarassed yesterday. No one else really gave it a second thought, other than to say, "well, that happens". I wasn't upset.
We did absolutely nothing all day yesterday. I watched football & napped off and on until Ladybugs came home. She didn't have much to say about her weekend & I don't ask any questions. I know she was tired and has a bit of a cough. I'm hoping she does not get sick.
I did get all of my lights up on Saturday and am 'almost' happy with how they look. I didn't notice that the 2 new sets of net lights that I bought are LED, so when I turned them on, they do not match the others. That just won't do & I'm going to have to replace them so that they all match. Ladybugs really likes them though! Made me feel good that it was the first thing she mentioned when she came in the door last night. She then commented, "We don't have a Christmas tree. Daddy has the one we used to use". She'd forgotten that I bought a new one last year. They put the tree up yesterday at Drac's but did not have time to decorate it. We'll be doing that at my house this weekend.
I enjoyed the holiday. I'm enjoying V's company, but I'm while things are good, I'm just not at the same place as he is and it's creating a bit of a strain on my end. I don't want to push away someone who I really think is terrific,,,,,,,,,,but at the same time I'm just not feeling the same feelings at this point in time as he is. So, I'm just praying about it for now and waiting for some guidance. I'm trying not to let the Drac feelings cloud or mess up my thinking about V - but am having a bit of a difficult time doing it completely. I'm just not sure how to describe how I'm feeling,,,,,,,,,,,
Well, for now I need to put that all away and concentrate on getting some work done.
Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving & have a great week!!
Bugs;
I've been in the spot you're in with V. Ugh.
Here is what I learned. When you KNOW you are not in the right place to be in a relationship, keep LOTS of distance between you and any dates.
Because it really sucks to meet the right person at the wrong time. And it sucks to meet even just a nice person who you don't want to hurt.
You've been working on becoming a fabulous goddess. Who isn't going to fall for you? You need to use those powers carefully!
My motto for 2003 was "make new friends." And thats what I did. I didn't let anyone that I dated think they were anything more than a friend. And that meant keeping a lot of physical boundries in addition to emotional ones.
When you only date one person it makes it easy for them to make a lot of assumptions. And then you suddenly find yourself with a boyfriend!
I'm sure you would recommend to your friends that they not settle down with the first guy that comes along after a break-up of the magnitude of yours and Dracs. Right?
I absolutely believe your personal recovery would benefit from a session with the Harleys. Who knows better the minds of waywards and the betrayed? Hearing from an educated professional an evaluation of your sitch from both sides could do you a world of good.
Hey, Bugsy
I'm still getting caught up (and avoiding writing my self-evaluation), but I read the above somewhere and thought I would ask you how your session with Steve went.
You've been waiting for that, right? More later.
And, having caught up with the rest of your thread, you're probably over all but the faint memories of the massive trigger from last week, so I hesitate to bring it up at all, but
I'm really proud of how you handled it. What class. A true Goddess.
If V is smart, he will give you all the time you need.
Bugs
Hey Bugs, almost a whole week without you. I just wanted to pop in and let you know I was thinking about you and ladybugs. Hope all is well.
:happyholidays:
:happyholidays:
bumping up...for Bugs. :wavingsanta:
Hey Bugsy... if you're seriously interested in making the drive for the party next weekend you are of course more than welcome!
Anyhow.. glad you popped in on my thread, but how about a bugbom here!
How's things goin with you and Ladybugs??
Hi Everyone!!
Sorry I have been so so busy with just a few moments here and there to pop by a thread or two and chime in a bit.
Monday & Tuesday this week were out of town business travel,,,which included what has become my standard "nightmare" travel experience. Someday I'll write a book about all of the horrible travel issues I've had to deal with (lost bags, cancelled flights, broken down rental cars,,,,)
Thanks so much for all of the sweet concern, care, posts, and support! I'm feeling pretty good these days and Ladybugs is doing well. She had her school Christmas program last night & was truly cute as a bug in her Christmas dress, singing her little heart out. Too bad I had to also see Drac, but Oh well. At least *I* looked fabulous unlike Mr. I've Gained 15 or 20 pounds again. haha!
I did need to discuss some kid issues with Drac and spoke with him today on the phone. It could have been done strictly email, but it's his typical m.o. in that he's at a loss of how to address something with DSS and wanting to talk to me for some answers. I really didn't feel triggered, angry or upset about it, nor did I really care one way or another how he felt about what I had to say. I simply stated how *I* deal with DSS. From there, it's up to him to deal with his own life.
Only thing that suprised me was that he made a point twice to invite me over to his office to attend the blood drive they are having. Yeah, like that is something I want to do! I think I've had enough of my life force sucked out from being around him already!
James, I WISH I had the time to drive over for the party but if I don't go Christmas shopping that weekend, Ladybugs is going to have nothing under the tree!!! Pencil me in for something in the spring??
SD, thanks for the kind words about the HoCall. I had decided to wait until after the holidays to call Steve - mostly due to $$ but partly because I kept thinking to myself, "What is Steve going to say that hasn't been said already? Isn't it pretty much as simple as me HAVING to finally give up & let go?"
The good thing is that over the last couple of weeks, I am feeling better in the 'letting go' dept. Drac's romantic ski weekend get away with Ho2 wasn't so difficult to deal with so I think I'm getting there,,,finally!! So, I'm giving myself a 'cautious wait & see' period. If I find myself in the dark sad place because of feelings for Drac anytime during the holidays, I'll make the call.
Lexxxy - thanks for the dating tips. As usual, you have lots that makes sense to me. I'm doing much, much better with enforcing my boundaries. I have to tell you though, that despite my very clear & concise sharing with V, he apparently is willing to 'wait' for me to catch up to where he stands.
On the one hand, I'm very much like Foxx, that it's difficult to know how to act when someone is being SO nice and thoughtful. On the other, I'm prefectly content with myself and my life. I would miss his companionship/friendship but would not be crushed either should we part ways right now. I am really not giving it a whole lot of thought or analysis. I've stated where I stand. He knows ours is not an 'exclusive' relationship so it's up to him to deal with his end of things.
I was shocked to learn the other night that someone I've known for almost 4 years thru what was initially business contact that turned into more of a friendship is in "like" with me and has been for some time. Sometimes I feel really 'stupid' when it comes to things like this, as apparently other people were very aware of his interest and I was totally clueless.
What I am proud of is how I've done a much better job of letting him know where I stand and what my boundaries are. After a lovely dinner where I first found out about how he felt, he was coming on pretty strong about seeing me again. We live in different states, so it's not like this would be an easy relationship should we choose to pursue it. Apparently he's even given this enough thought to wonder out loud what would happen if we were to ever become 'serious'.
What is the deal? Why am I not finding the 'typical' guy who wants to take me to dinner and then call me a week or so later? I am getting guys with thoughts way into the future???!!!
It really is kind of funny, I guess.
So, tonight is a secret suprise date night with V. He's picking me up from work and I've only been told to dress up for the evening,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
For everyone I may not have mentioned by name that posted, thanks so much! I have been missing you guys and hope to have a bit of time to post over the weekend and catch up with everyone.
So, tonight is a secret suprise date night with V. He's picking me up from work and I've only been told to dress up for the evening,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
...tap,tap,tap...
Bugsy:
You have them falling out of thier trees for your goddess'ness.
Can't believe that the guy had thought about "longer-term"
Sheesh.
Wheres that wet noodle to whip you into shape.
You are a GODDESS.
You are a Terrific Employee.
You are a Great Mom.
Why wouldn't eligible men being willing to ask you out.
Drac's loss.
And his inviting you to the blood drive....TOO FUNNY!
Happy holidays!
LG
Hey LG!
Merry Christmas to you, Flamingo, and DS! Hope it is wonderful!
Luna, you are too funny!
Ok, so Friday afternoon I'm told to be ready to be picked up at x time, so I'm ready to go. I'm the only one in my building that day, so the doors are locked.
A knock on the door. I get my things and open the door to see Al, The Limo Driver standing there with his strech limo parked outside. Al puts me inside & pours a glass of my favorite wine that just happens to be chilled and ready in the back.
Al and I have a nice ride into downtown where he drops me off at one of the nicest hotels in the city,,,,,which has me a little nervous. V meets us at the door and tells me to leave my things in the car. We are having dinner here. It is a famous place in town,,,a restaurant at the top of a tower that turns slowly showing you the entire skyline of the city. Very beautiful.
V was quite nervous. He's never done something like this & wanted very badly for it to all be perfect. This is quite outside of his comfort zone,,,he's more of a 'hunting and fishing' guy vs 5 star restaurants. Once we had a glass of wine & talked for a bit, he relaxed and had a nice dinner.
Then back to the limo for a nice tour of the city and some Christmas lights while drinking the bottle of wine. Al then dropped us off at a beautiful (famous) theater for a show.
It was an extremely nice evening, the kind every girl dreams of having a guy plan for her.
I'm thinking to myself, "What's wrong with you?" Because I'm just not feeling that feeling of fireworks, head over heels thrill about V.
Then, I realized that it's OK for me to feel however I feel about him,,,, or not. I'm up front & honest with him. I have been from day one and continue to be. He knows that I care about him but am not in love. He chooses to believe that I will 'catch up' to him in that department. I don't know that I will and have told him that.
I'm not worrying about it. Well, I do 'think' about it frequently, but it's not a worry. I am continuing on with my life, work, kids, and even other dates (which V knows).
Drac called on Sat. late morning. I let DSS answer, as I figured he wanted to talk to him. DSS spent the night with a friend, and was meeting me back at Drac's house to pick him up Sat morning (DSS needed to drop off his bike in the garage). Apparently Drac wasn't home. I was suprised when DSS said Drac wanted to talk to me.
He starts off with saying, "Please go where DSS is out of ear shot". It scared me - - I was worried that something had happened to someone in the family. Instead he says, "Remember earlier this year before we moved up here DSS asked me to track down his 'mom'?"
I replied, "No, you never told me about that".
Drac, "Yes I did. I told you he was concerned about moving out of the state and wanted to see her before we moved. You said it was very mature of him."
Bugs, "Drac, *WE* did not have that conversation. You never mentioned a word to me,,,,but what's up?"
Drac, "I KNOW we talked about this."
Bugs, "You may very well have had that conversation Drac, but that conversation wasn't with ME."
Drac, "Ok, so I tracked her down and DSS saw her one time. They exchanged phone numbers. He called her another time for a school family tree project. Since then, we haven't heard from her. We talked about it and we are 'done' with her. She's never going to change. Now, there is a message from her on the phone. Do I tell DSS about it?"
OMG! I was SO upset. First, to be reminded AGAIN about the HO having these conversations about MY DSS. That *I* was never told anything about it. And NOW, NOW Drac is asking MY advice on what to do? You have GOT to be kidding me?!!
But, he wasn't kidding. He went on to say that he is worried that now that DSS is older, he'll see the opportunity for 'freedoms' by living with his mom that he doesn't have with Drac and that he'll want to go live with her.
The truth of the matter is that Drac was more worried about DRAC than he was about DSS. It was his concern over losing his son that drove him to call me.
So, I was just honest with him. I told him that DSS is 14, almost 15. He needs to tell him about the message and let DSS decide for himself what he wants to do. If DSS would ever find out that she called, and Drac hid it from him, DSS would be mad at Drac. I explained to him that the type of 'freedom' he is talking about is not something that DSS desires. Also, DSS is firmly with Drac no matter what has happened or will happen in the future,,,,,,,,,,,DSS won't ask to live with his Mom. It just would not happen.
Yes, basically I gave Drac the reassurances he was looking for.
The conversation turned back to the fact that he was SURE that he'd told me about this when it happened. So, I said, "Drac, I can see where you would think we had that conversation. In fact, I'm sure YOU did have the conversation. You just had the conversation with someone else."
Drac, "Well, I'm going to go Bugs, because that is just a hateful thing to say."
Bugs, "Drac, I'm not being hateful. It is just a matter of the facts. Those are the facts. IF I was trying to be hateful, I would have said that you'd had that conversation with that HO, not with me. But, that's not what I said."
I also told him about her calling me which knocked him on his butt. He wanted to know WHY,,,,,,WHAT did she say,,,,,,,WHAT did she want. I didn't give him much detail but just let it be known how ridiculous it all was. Of course he had to let me know that she left because SHE was seeing someone else. TOO funny that she said the same thing about HIM! With so much lying going on it's amazing that they were together as long as they were. It actually made me laugh after I got off the phone.
Of course, Drac never called or emailed me to let me know how things went when he talked to DSS or how DSS felt about it all. Just further proof that it had nothing to do with what was best for DSS. So, I made a point to talk to DSS the next 2 nights in a row. He's shut down about it, and that's ok. We'll talk about it face to face sometime. DSS even told me 2x recently that "Dad & I just don't communicate. I can't talk to him the way I talk to you."
Oh, and one other little Drac tidbit before I HAVE to get to work,,,,,,,,,,,,he apparently did not bother contacting the school about them going on vacation starting Friday. DSS is having FINALS that day and can not miss them!!! I talked to DSS last night and explained that he needed to get with Drac ASAP to get this figure out. OY!! Drac's answer? DSS needs to talk to the teacher and see if he can take the test before or after school today or tomorrow???!!! Interesting because their school is closed today. It may work out in their favor, as at least one day's worth of FINALS will have to be done post holiday break. I hope for DSS's sake it works out.
I gotta run! I have more to update but have a call in 15 minutes to prep for.
Hope everyone is doing well!
Hi Bugs!
I don't know if I have ever posted to you but your last post made me smile and get at tear in my eye at the same time.
You seem to have a lot going for you in the right direction. I am also impressed by how you handle the interaction with Drac. I kind of feel sorry for him, he seems so insecure and lost without anyone to guide him. I am sure that he could need you but I think that you have better things to do.
Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Wow.
Your updates are amazing.
You have such strength and grace.
I think you're doing well when it comes to Drac. Keep putting the mirror up. Speak your truth and don't worry about his reaction to it. And I think your analysis of it all being about him is very astute.
Your date night with V sounds very nice. He's obviously trying to win you over. Enjoy, you deserve it. And how very nice to be treated that way - what a contrast to how Drac treats you, huh?
Can't wait for the further update....but really wondering what more there could be!?
Happy Holidays Mz. Prez,
"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
I don't think there is anything else you can say...
As for the night out... WOO HOO.... you go GIRL...... G-d is clearly giving you a chance to see what other relationships can be like. Just enjoy the possibilities....
Thanks for the post Why!
You are right in that Drac 'could' need me. Actually I think he 'does' need me,,,,,,,,,but he'll never accept that fact. It's easier to blame me when things go wrong, but come around when he really needs something important. I'm done worrying about it one way or another.
That 'indifference' SD and SL have been talking about lately is really setting in better with me. Thank God!
Merry Christmas to you and yours, too!!
Lexxxy,,,,,hey!!
Thanks for the compliments! If nothing else, I work very hard to be able to continue to look in the mirror myself and be happy with what I say and do - - even when interacting with Drac.
I still have times of considering a good Plan FU on Drac, but the urge quickly passes and life goes on!
I AM trying just to enjoy being treated well. And yes, I have actually thought specifically about the contrast with Drac! No matter what happens or does not happen with V, spending time with him has made me remember what is possible. And,,,,,that yes, there are men out there who think I deserve to be treated as the Goddess I have become!
The other 'update' is that tomorrow I'm going to see R, the long distance guy. I've known him for 4 years and I considered him a friend, but his interest is newly uncovered. He's given me a bit of a hard time about not knowing he 'liked' me all of this time, but we have been talking virtually every day for the last couple of weeks.
His birthday is today. For
his birthday present, he's arranged/paid for my flight from my city to his. Arranged a complimentary room for me at the Crowne Plaza Hotel. He is taking me to dinner. We are then going to the zoo for their holiday light event because he "wants to be somewhere festive, hold my hand, and share hot chocolate". Seems I might have another romantic on my hands.
Not a bad way to spend another night during the holidays I think,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thanks, Queenie!!
:happyholidays:
Bugs,
there are men out there who think I deserve to be treated as the Goddess I have become!
...you think?
...I know so!
Bugs,
I don't know what else to say except
Drac seems soooo immature. I'm not sure that you are even a good match for him, really. What a self-centered guy he is.
I can't wait to hear more about your ventures. Someone mentioned that we MBers should do a book.. I think it's a great idea. Each chapter title is a different screen name. All chapters end in recovery - personal or marital. You are definitely a personal recovery chapter!!! And I'm right behind you....
Hi Bugs,
Drac called on Sat. late morning.
I think you are doing a great job dealing with Drac.
Both out of necessity and convenience, I am considering "some" contact with WS.... I also know that "indifference" has not yet set in...
Without putting you on the spot and when you have a chance, how do you approach, or recommend approaching, mentally and emotionally exchanges with a WxS? ....and to minimize loss of sleep and anguish at the same time.
You deserve the best and I am sure that you will find the best man in the world when the time is right. Until then enjoy what life brings. You are a true Goddess!
I thought more about Drac and what he asked you the other day. I think that he is dead scared of being alone. First of all he is a WS who can't be on his own and now he is worried that his son will choose to live with his mom instead. I don't know the story of your DSS but I guess that there may be reasons why his mom has not been involved in his life and there may be reasons why Drac doesn’t want his son to live with her. But I think that he is just scared and acting out of that.
Anyway, I hope that you had a great evening with R.
Good evening, all!
Well, I am kid free and date free for the rest of the weekend. Although, I am going to a party later tonight! I actually should be wrapping Christmas presents,,,,but hey, there are still still a few days left, right?! ha!
Without putting you on the spot and when you have a chance, how do you approach, or recommend approaching, mentally and emotionally exchanges with a WxS? ....and to minimize loss of sleep and anguish at the same time.
Luna, I wish I had some great, wise advice for you about interactions. I stuck stricly to email for quite some time. Having to see Drac during DSS's football season forced me to deal with seeing him face to face.
The only thing I can say for SURE that I know I have always done - is to conduct myself in a way that I knew I could face myself in the mirror the next day. When in doubt or when in pain, I held my tongue. Less is more in those cases,,,,at least for me. I allowed myself to do only what *I* am comfortable with.
For instance today, Drac sent a picture mail of Ladybug at Disneyworld. It broke my heart. I wanted to thank him for the picture, and at the same time, I wanted to stab him in the eye with a steak knife! :twobyfour: :crosseyedcrazy:
So, instead, I didn't reply. I couldn't. And, I am OK with that. I haven't reached the better place of the indifference that SL has reached (I hope to some day). But until then, I have found the greatest 'success' for me personally, is just to do what I want to and what I can. A key for me was as I slowly cared less and less what Drac would 'think' or 'feel' about what I said or how I said it. That's getting to the place of indifference,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I Hope!
So, the trip to Columbus was fun. Although not perfect. For the second week in a row, the airline lost my bag! I was going to carry on, but didn't want to hassle with my bag & my computer. BAD idea. This week, unfortunately, it NEVER showed up until I returned HOME,,,,,,,,,,,,,and due to the weather, I was home 5 hours late! YIKES!!
The good news is that the time actually spent in Columbus was wonderful. I had a great time.
I feel faint,,,as I just don't really know how to act being treated so, so, so well. It's actually a bit uncomfortable at times. I don't know how to explain it.
So, despite not having my FABOULOUS Goddess wear outfit to change into for dinner/evening, I made the best of it in what I wore on the plane. NOTE TO GODDESSES - THIS is a very good reason to ALWAYS be in Goddess mode! You never know when you might be caught unaware!! Mimi,,,,,,Thanks sweetie for the reminder/lesson that I have stuck to since coming here!! While no, I wasn't in what I had planned to wear, I STILL got compliments from R (and a few glances from some pilots at the hotel!
)
He actually picked me up at the airport,,,,,,,,,NO ONE has EVER picked me up at the airport!
I checked into a beautiful room. Drinks downstairs and some really good and fun conversation for what seemed like minutes, but was a couple of hours before I realized it. The zoo was amazingly beautiful. Dinner at the hotel. Talked for hours & hours. We are both very skeptical about trying to have a long distance relationship, but agreed it was a wonderful evening. We'll see what happens.
Today I went shopping with my mom. I only have a couple gifts left to buy but still have ALL of the wrapping to do. I think that will be my Sunday after church project.
When I got home, there was a package at the door. Flowers & chocolates from R.
Honesty. I am soooooooooooo green with envy!
J/K!!
Isn't it fun being treated like a princess? DRAC should take notes.
You are a catch and these guys know it. Thing is, you get to choose based on the stuff you know now, that you didn't know then.
No 8-minute dates for you.
There's no hurry. You've got the rest of your life to end up with the man who deserves you.
:MerryChristmas:
It broke my heart. I wanted to thank him for the picture, and at the same time, I wanted to stab him in the eye with a steak knife!
I know exactly what you mean, Bugs. It's one more reason for me to keep up the status quo.
Glad to hear you are getting treated like royalty by some smart, lucky guy. Enjoy it, and take your time.
Bugs
Hi Bugs,
I really appreciate your suggestions.
And I am sorry for this...
For instance today, Drac sent a picture mail of Ladybug at Disneyworld. It broke my heart. I wanted to thank him for the picture, and at the same time, I wanted to stab him in the eye with a steak knife!
So, instead, I didn't reply. I couldn't. And, I am OK with that.
It's one of the reasons I also prefer email...(to be able to at least feel the pain in the privacy of our own home!)
but let's focus on...
When I got home, there was a package at the door. Flowers & chocolates from R.
...because this is more like how you deserve to be treated.
I am going to a party later tonight!
....sounds like fun.
Enjoy, Bugs...and thank you for being such a great example to all of us.
Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas!
Mine was quite wonderful,,,,in spite of a few 'incidents'. How about a little Christmas story? I'll begin with the evening of the 23rd,,,,,,,,
I went shopping with V for a few last items and we made a few stops for him to get some things done. Back home to my place early. The weather was mostly rainy, but with a slight change in temp, it was getting a little slick out, but mostly on the driveways and sidewalks.
We did have a bit of a talk about 'us'. I again shared with him that I am not at the same 'place' he is and that I may never be. I don't want to be unkind or hurtful, but I just don't see us being together 'forever' the way he does. He, on the other hand, is apparently willing to do/say/be anything it takes to make it work. That is not going to work out. But,,,I want everyone to enjoy the holidays, so we shelved any further discussion for now.
He left to go pick up his boat and go home. He and his DS were to go duck hunting the next morning. He called a few hours later,,,someone had hit the boat & knocked him into the ditch due to slick roads. Good news was not too much damage to the boat and he was back on the road.
Well, he was back on the road for about 5 minutes. Hit a slick spot and slid into the ditch AGAIN! He was the 3rd car that slid off the same place. While on the phone with me, I hear him yell, "LOOK OUT! HERE COMES A CAR!!!" And the phone went dead.
My heart stopped!
2 minutes later he did call back. It was a CLOSE call. Another car slid off about 2 feet from where he & another guy had been standing. Missed his truck by inches!!
He told me they had called 911 for the people in the latest car,,,just bumps & bruises, but they had small kids. He said he'd call me in the morning.
4 a.m. I receive a text message from his daughter asking if I knew where her Dad was. Seems they were at Grandma & Grandpa's (v's parents) - they just woke the kids up and were taking them to their mom's house,,,,,,,,,,V wasn't home & they did not know where he was.
I'll cut down on the exact details, but via text message with his daughter over the next several hours, it became apparent that his family was thinking the worst,,,,,,,,,but not telling the kids,,,,,,,,,,until 9 a.m. when I get a text from his DD,,,,,,,"My daddy is gone. He is dead". She'd said several times throughout the morning that her mom or someone in the family would be calling me.
I hit the floor. I didn't feel that I could call her,,,they were together as a family and I felt that I would be intruding where I did not really belong. Especially because her mom has had a lot of 'issues' with my being around. So I just sat here in shock. After a bit, I did call my best friend who knows V, as well as my parents. I didn't really know what to do with myself and figured I'd hear something once things settled down later. There was nothing I could do.
I felt so sick for his DS and DD. He is their world and they were his.
Then,,,,,,,,2 hours later came the Christmas Miracle. I received another text that 'they had it wrong!! it's not him! He's upstairs in a room & we are going to see him"
I hit the floor again!!
Seems with being transferred from one hospital to another, the family had been given wrong information. He was alive, and actually not severely injured! A bump on the head, some scrapes, and a lot of bruising,,,,,that's all.
I can't describe how crazy the entire day felt. I was just so thankful to God for the sake of his kids that he was ok. I didn't talk to him until late in the afternoon. There was still a great deal of confusion about what went on, and I still have a lot of questions, but the important thing is that he & his kids were together for another Christmas and THAT is such a wonderful blessing.
I won't bother you right now with the details of the next story, , which should be titled, "When a BS receives the gift meant for HO2". Yep!! You won't believe that one either,,,,I still don't!! ha!
I gotta run,,,I have hungry children in need of some breakfast. I'll try to drop in again later today!!
BUGS!!!! Don't leave us in suspense too long girl! Get back here and finish the story!!!
OMG! What an incredible miracle!
I can't imagine what you must have been going through - and the fact that you could not really be a part of the grieving family.
Thank goodness he is alright and was reunited with his children.
That is so amazing!
Take care ...
And I'm waiting for the next story.
Fox
Ok, I'll have to make this quick.
Drac drops off the kids yesterday,,,,and they come in with a wrapped box. Of course, Ladybug wants me to open it right away.
So, as I am opening it, I ask, "Who wrapped this?"
Answer, "Daddy did".
Under the wrapping paper is a cardboard box,,,,,,that has the shipping labels still on it,,,,,,,,,,,It was a box from MY house! It was from something I'd ordered, and apparently he took out of my recycle bin when he was here sometime??!!
WEIRD!
So, I open the cardboard box and inside is a stuffed teddy bear holding some bath & body products. They are just a slight step up from the Wal-mart Grandma products I got last year,,,,but just slightly.
Anyway,,,,,,,,,,,
Also inside the cardboard box is another smaller, gift wrapped box.
So, I say, "Oh look, I get another one??"
Ladybug jumps up and say, "Oh, no! "
I said, "What? Let me guess, this isn't for me?"
Reply, "No that is for Ho2"
Yes,,,,,that is right. Inside MY gift is a wrapped gift for Ho2!!!
You can only imagine what I wanted to do at that point!!
:crosseyedcrazy:
DSS gets on Ladybugs, saying "Be quiet".
Ladybug responds, "She already knows, DSS!"
I told DSS that I knew about Ho2. Just a flat statement of fact.
I took the wrapped gift and put it upstairs. They could tell i was upset,,,,,,,,,,,Ladybugs asked, "Mommy, did this ruin your Christmas?"
I told her, "No, this did not ruin my Christmas. It is very rude and thoughtless of your Daddy, but no, it did not ruin my Christmas".
So, I went about getting us back on track unwrapping the rest of our gifts and having a good time. I did not mention it again.
Can you believe this????????????? I still can't!!
Now, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it.
I have considered many options, but am willing to take your ideas first!! I'll bet you can give me some great suggestions!!!
Bring it on MBers!!!
Personally, if it didnt have a label with Ho2's name on it...I would open it and claim it as my own.
Might be a step up on the 'grandma' gifts
open it - if it's something you can't use - give it to charity
Open it.
He put it in "your" gift. Must have been a Freudian slip. And Possession is 9/10 of the law.
Stupid WS.
I would not return it to him. Stupid WS. [Oh, I just said that.]
Drac is an effing idiot. I would open to see what she got. See if it's the same Walmart variety O'DToilette that you got.
Bugs,
I would certainly NOT return to Drac!
It was in YOUR box...
I would open it....then give it 'away'... or just give it away if you don't want to bother.
What a maroon...
Send it back with the kids with a note to that effect for their next visit...
Or wait for him to ask.
Such a flibbertigibbet...
A real DOLT...
Hope he's looking all over for it...
And then realizes where he put it... :MrEEk:
It'd serve him right...
Not fog. Just STUPID...
Welll..I most definitely would NOT return it...
I definitely would OPEN it..and then would proceed with an action that would bring ME the most JOY...
Yes,,,,,that is right. Inside MY gift is a wrapped gift for Ho2!!!
OY VEY
That's it... I seriously think we need to come up with a way to bottle the WS insanity and make MONEY on it and meet up on a CRUISE..
You just can't imagine this stuff in a sane mind...
I would SO OPEN IT and make MY CHOICE as to what to do....
Hi Mimi,
How are you?
and then would proceed with an action that would bring ME the most JOY...
Oh. Oh!
Could that have something to do with gasoline or some form of explosives or maybe something in a large caliber handgun?
OK. I'll change my vote to THAT....
I'm not too late am I?
Seriously...
You do what YOU think is he right thing to do. The potential is here for a really big slap in the face for Drac.
But it could go the other way as well. What the present is could hurt you as much or more than getting it by mistake.
You know it wasn't intended for you. If it was for anyone else, what would you do with it?
It's kind of an ethical question to me. I KNOW the revenge factor could be high, but is that the most important part of this?
You could slap him in the face and still not lower yourself to his level. Or you can do what he will use against you in the future and what the kids will remember as the time Mom tried to get even and took a detour from the moral high road.
Right now you are Ladybug's hero...
What will opening a gift she knows you got by mistake say to her?
Drac's a doofus. Ho2's a Ho. They deserve each other.
Why try to become one of them?
JMHO.
Mark
What will opening a gift she knows you got by mistake say to her?
You sir, are the voice of my reasoning and I am glad you are here. Very good point....
I guess I still have lots to pray for....
Hey Bugs Bomb. DGS and I just logged on and read this.
Keep the gift. Open the gift. Burn the gift. But it was in a box to you. It's yours to deal with. I believe the term is "with extreme prejudice."
He is either a total bafoon or an idiot. No in between.
Here is DGS:
Hi there! This is DGS. I can't believe this man is so stupid. He has sunk to an all time low. Please open that gift and let us all know what he got Ho2. This is the first time I have entered MB and I have to tell you as a girlfriend to Chrisner I think you are a really unbelievable group of people. I am so sorry that you had to endure this stupidity in front of your children, I give your an incredible amount of credit for keeping it together. Thank you for letting me be a part of this Merry Christmas to all and I hope 2009 is a great year for all of you!!!!
Chrisner is back. Bugs, I hope beyond this you had a great Christmas. Take care Bugsy! You are a great mom.
chrisner.
I guess I still have lots to pray for....
Me too, Queenie.
Mark...you, Sir, are a very WISE man.
... how soon we forget that one of our biggest role as a parent is that we provide a MODEL for our kids to follow....
The challenge at hand than is how to do BOTH, protect Bugs' feelings AND be the role model you want to be...
The challenge at hand than is how to do BOTH, protect Bugs' feelings AND be the role model you want to be...
Exactly. I would think to protect Bugs' feelings would be for her NOT to open the gift. Why set yourself up for that kind of pain if it turns out to be something fabulous? I would send it back with no note, nothing. Let DD see mom act with class in response to a classless act.
(You don't want to hear what I thought at first. I had some GREAT ideas...
)
Drac's a doofus. Ho2's a Ho. They deserve each other.
Why try to become one of them?
HUH???
Mark, not too sure how opening the gift does THIS??
I had a different take on it...how GOD works in mysterious ways..how such things as this happen to EVILDOERS..probably what I would tell my child..would provide her with a LESSON on what happens to those who do WRONG..you will SUFFER the consequences of your actions...your wrongdoings will continually come back to haunt you..you will slip up..you will make mistakes..you will get caught..what you do in the dark, comes out in the light, etc., etc....
But what do I know??
I know this. I,personally, still would definitely OPEN it and probably would destroy it somehow..in a gloriously PRIVATE moment..wouldn't share with my child or anyone...such a personal, ADULT-ORIENTED EVENT...
Still, IMO, Bugsy should do what will make HER happy...she deserves REPARATIONS for what has been done to her by Drac and what he continues to do to her, IMO...
Protect Bugsy's feelings??? Bugsy is TOUGH...she can handle whatever TRASH is in that box...and I guarantee you, it is TRASH..
Mimi - you said that God works in mysterious ways.
I agree.
But encourage a more Godly response to this.
First, Bugs - dear. Consider you have been sent TWO messages from God in the last 24-48 hours.
One - a man who adores you and his family adores him nearly taken from this life. A man who by your own words is caring, mature, and not playing with your heart.
Two - a man who is crass and careless with women and your daughter and your stepson has also revealed himself to you.
You are a lady of grace. You have a graceful daughter. What would be the graceful thing to do?
Open the gift and try to hide further hurt from your very perceptive daughter?
Deliberately take a wound into your heart that you don't need to take?
Or recognize the gift of the contrasts between the two men - that gift very fittingly personalized you from the Lord of All on the day we celebrate His birth...
Peace, girlfriend. You don't have to hurt yourself any more.
Choose the graceful thing and let your heart love again. Love the right man.
I think the problem here is that the kids KNOW that she has it and they may go back and tell Drac about that...I really don't see DSS doing it or Ladybug doing it on purpose but it may slip in conversation...
I think I would ask them what they think should happen to the gift, then you can also get a feel for how they feel about her too...
DSS is very protective isn't he? Does want to hurt your feelings? Has he always been like that?
Bugs, have you examined your feelings with the sitch with V after all that drama? Just wondering if that was a wake up call for you? Have you thought about that anymore?
Miss you!
Deliberately take a wound into your heart that you don't need to take?
GREAT POINTS, Kayla, about Bugsy acting GRACEFULLY...AND about V..although Bugsy just might not be ATTRACTED to him for whatever reason...
BUT I'm not sure how opening the gift would be "WOUNDING INTO HER HEART"??? Would it, Bugsy?
I'm saying that it's JUST a piece of TRASH...and should be seen and treated as SUCH by her...regardless of what it IS or what it COST..
THINK... "What's this JUNK doing here..cluttering up my WONDERFUL LIFE?"...YUCK...
Bugsy,
I am glad to hear that V is okay. What a shock for his family. Did you gain any perspective from that moment? Just curious.
As for Drac's maroonic move, I can only tell you what I would do in the situation.
I would place the teddy bear and it's accompanying smelly thingys, along with the Ho2's present, back in the box they came in--send it ALL back to Drac.
I wouldn't accept anything from the Z.
WOW!!
I just love how a request for assistance brings such a response around here!!! Love you all & can't say thank you enough for all of your responses!!
First, hey, Mimi!! Great to hear from you!!
Second, I would like to offer an "Offical"
WELCOMEto DGS!! I feel so honored to have you post to me! I am sure I don't need to tell you what a catch you have in Chris! He is one special guy, who means a great deal to so many of us around here.
Thanks for your support & advice! I take it quite seriously, as Chris obviously thinks a lot of you, we all know how special YOU are, too! Welcome.
I'll be honest, I'd pretty much decided already what to do with the Ho2 gift before my post,,,,but sincerely needed some other opinions. I value each and every one of them.
I 'did' try to slip up some of the tape to take a peek at what the gift is,,,,,,,,,but then changed my mind.
My kids DO know that it is here and they WILL end up telling Drac. As was said, what is the HIGH ground position to take? I won't teach them that it is ok to take something that is not 'meant' for you, no matter what the horrific circumstances are that you have it are.
I intend to hold on to it. It is stuck away in the back of one of my closets. I seriously doubt that Drac will have the nerve to ask for it back. However, if Ladybug would happen to ask for it, I want to be able to have it to give to her. Not for Drac's sake,,,,,not for Ho2's sake,,,,,but for my daughter's sake.
To teach her that one can do the right thing, even when a 'wrong' has been done to you.
So, we shall wait to see what, if anything, happens.
If it has not been requested to be returned by my birthday next month, then it will have transformed into a Happy Birthday Bugs gift and I'll be sure to let you all know what I get!
Honestly, I am not so concerned that it is going to be something that will be a further wound to my heart. I mean think about it,,,,,,he's already given "himself" to how many countless other women since he left (and even before he left?). What material gift could be more 'giving' or hurtful to me to know that another woman has??
Yes, initially it will likely hurt but I am feeling less and less that it would be anything more than a flesh wound to me now. Especially from a man that would so thoughtlessly allow this 'mix up' to happen in the first place. He cares not one iota for me or my feelings.
SL, I would love to do as you suggest and send the whole thing back, but that would be hurtful to DSS and Ladybugs, as the gift is supposed to be from them to me. I can at least hope that perhaps Drac feels a tiny bit of shame after seeing what I helped the kids to get for him. DSS specifically called me last week and asked me to get something for Drac that Drac had told DSS he wanted (dog tag necklace with the kids names/birthdays engraved on them).
Did I 'want' to do it? Hell, no!! Did I do it? Absolutely. It was for DSS and Ladybug, not for Drac. THAT is what I want my kids to remember about Christmas when they are older. THAT is the kind of thing that this holiday is to be about - - the GIFT God gave to us with the birth of His Son is more than anything we could ever give to one another. But a gift given that includes some sacrifice means something more, IMHO.
Again, thanks everyone for your input! I will tell you that there is not ONE single post here that didn't include something that crossed my mind at one time or another in this situation!!!
I even thought about opening it and then taking it to work and 'presenting' it to her in the middle of the office!! Especially if it is of a 'personal' nature!!
Now THAT is what this Goddess would do IF it were not for my kids.
Well, if it's a gift from your kids, then I completely understand not sending it back. I thought it was meant to be from DRAC.
Carry on...
Honestly, I am not so concerned that it is going to be something that will be a further wound to my heart. I mean think about it,,,,,,he's already given "himself" to how many countless other women since he left (and even before he left?). What material gift could be more 'giving' or hurtful to me to know that another woman has??
(You don't want to hear what I thought at first. I had some GREAT ideas... )
I bet you did, PM...
...and leaving it to our WILD imagination is what I would call how to be 'effective with the least amout of effort'
Oh the ideas, the ideas, the ideas! I'm sure we could write a book!!
I just had to pop in and tell ya'll something,,,,,,it's a bit funny,,,,
I had to look up some things on line this afternoon & for some reason, I felt a nudge telling me to check on Drac's match.com activity (something I haven't done in ages!).
Guess who was
"On Line Now!"??!!
I
"almost"feel sorry for Ho2!
Oh the ideas, the ideas, the ideas! I'm sure we could write a book!!
I just had to pop in and tell ya'll something,,,,,,it's a bit funny,,,,
I had to look up some things on line this afternoon & for some reason, I felt a nudge telling me to check on Drac's match.com activity (something I haven't done in ages!).
Guess who was
"On Line Now!"??!!
I
"almost"feel sorry for Ho2!
Aha! You "ESP-ed" him!!
That still happens to me with Gray, too, but I don't read much into it since it happens with everyone else as well!
Charlotte
Bugs, it's my turn to be late to the party, but I would have sided with Mark, PM, and SL. The high road. Drac continues to plumb new depths on the low road.
I hope that soon you are Done with this [censored]. You are so much better than he is and deserve so much more than he can ever offer.
Bugs
Hi Bugs! I like your ideas on the gift! I got a coffee mug from POWS for Christmas...it has Louisiana on it purchased at a convenient store as a after thought...it was sitting on the counter in the kitchen this afternon when I was cleaning...
I thought about throwing it away but first I asked the kids what the story was behind it...apparently the kids asked POWS if he was getting me anything for Christmas and they purchased it there...POWS told me where he got it and that he was running low on cash... How about getting a job buddy?!?!?!?!?
I didn't throw it away right then and there becasue the kids asked him what he was getting me...I didn't get him anything...MOF, after he gave it to me, I told him that I didn't get him anything because all Xmas shopping pretty much stopped after I found out that he lost his job...
After reading your thread, I think that I will hold on to it for a while and then trash it...POWS appeared concerned that I would like it...I said that I did and that it didn't matter what the gift was that it was the thought behind it...for once his story matched the kids...he even told the kids not to tell me where he got it from but then he told me...I guess he's embarrassed about alot of things in his life! :twobyfour: Should have thought about that! Oh, well!
I can tell you that reading here about the things that the XWS do is amazing!! Absoletly amazing! Will wonders never seize!
Hey SD!!
You are welcome at any of my 'parties' at anytime!! Thanks for joining in the 'fun'!
I only 'wish' I were done with that 'jack-o-lope', too! Unfortunately, you know I never will be able to be completely rid of him since we do have children together. I supposed he'll just have to be one of those crosses I am forced to bear for life. The good news is that he has become so totally ridiculous, the weight of the load has lifted a great deal.
Rin,,,,,, A coffee cup? WOW! I thought old lady bath products were lame!!
:crosseyedcrazy:
I'm sorry to say that no,,,,I don't think that when it comes to the crazy antics of waywards and ex's that wonders will ever cease! :crosseyedcrazy:
Bugs
I too am late to the party, but since I don't have kids--this would have been my vote
even thought about opening it and then taking it to work and 'presenting' it to her in the middle of the office!! Especially if it is of a 'personal' nature!! Now THAT is what this Goddess would do IF it were not for my kids.
But the high road is more fitting for a goddess such as yourself.
Happy holidays!
Smartie
Bugs:
I'm SO Glad that "V" was ok....
I hope that you have had some opportunity to talk to him since that night.
I need to play some "devils advocate" for a minute for Drac.
Yes, Drac is a stupid WS. It's a trait. But do you really think he was so stupid as to have wrapped up H02's gift with yours?
Sorry. I'm not buying it.
Example: You wrap ONE GIFT, and then you set it aside. Then you stick ANOTHER GIFT in a box to wrap it. HOW would they get together? He was carrying all the gifts in the your BOX? And forgot to remove it?
Drac may be stupid, but even this is hard to believe. Anything is possible, but this one has an angle.
Could Drac have wrapped two gifts, same paper, about the same size, one for Bugsy, and one for HO2? He put your gift 2, (from him..) in with Ladybugs and DSS's gift to you?
DSS and Ladybugs never saw the "two" gifts?
They only ever saw the gift for HO2?
Now, I'm a guy, and I hate to wrap.... Could Ladybugs, or DSS, done the wrapping and have made the mistake?
You described the scene, and the limitations of the internet and time certainly didn't allow you to tell us the whole interaction. But DSS and Ladybugs certainly didn't volunteer any info after that box was opened.
What IF ladybugs and DSS DID wrap or have a hand in helping with the wrapping it for Drac, could you imagine what position they are in right now?
You could have asked a number of questions and it is perfectly clear to you that DRAC did all this and it is his singular mistake. Like I said, I'm playing devils advocate here.
So, I will ask again: "What IF ladybugs and DSS DID wrap or have a hand in helping with the wrapping it for Drac, could you imagine what position they are in right now?" Especially DSS.
IF your good, GREAT! If not, don't just presume that he stupid cuz he's wayward. He might have gotten you something else.
LG
Hey LG!
I always love it when you chime in with a slightly different 'take' on things!!
No, I really don't think he's that stupid,,,,,,,,,,,but you are also talking to the woman who never believe he would cheat! :crosseyedcrazy:
There may be an "angle" but I certainly don't have a clue as to what the purpose would be!!
While it is 'possible' for him to bought me & Ho2 the same thing, I seriously doubt it. I can't picture him buying me anything 'just from him',,,,,
The kids were certain that the second box is for Ho2. I am sure he showed them what he'd bought & they were positive as soon as they saw it what it was and WHO it is for.
DSS and Ladybug may have had a 'hand' in wrapping it,,,,,it is possible. But, I did specifically ask before I starting opening it "Who wrapped this?". Their answer was immediate and I am certain it was honest that "Daddy did". Further, it was easy to tell from the 'quality' of the wrapping job that neither of them wrapped it.
I am certain that if they had a 'hand' in it, and realized that it was 'their' mistake, Ladybug would have come forth with the information. It is one of those things that she would not have been able to keep to herself, even if/especially if she knew it was 'her' fault and that my feelings were hurt because of it. Oh, and if it was DSS, Ladybug would have also let that information fly with no need for prodding.
Yes, I could have asked more questions, but I didn't. All I had to do was look at both of their faces,,,,,,,,,,,,neither of them could have hidden it from me if they'd been involved.
Yet,,,I realized in reading your post that anything is possible. I'm willing to keep an open mind.
Frankly, the possibility that he bought something for me without the kids knowing did not even occur to me. Why would it? Why would he? I just can't bend my imagination far enough to make that leap. Those days are gone. And, I think that is a good thing.
At the furthest, we will find out in 18 days what it is and maybe knowing what it is will give me a clue,,,,,,,,,,or not. Time will tell. Til then, I've crossed it off my list of things to think about.
Drac emailed about the 'schedule'. Apparently he emailed last night and again this morning. As I'm 'off' work, I hadn't checked email, so he sent a text this afternoon asking me to check email when I 'have time'. Seems he's wanting to send Ladybug back to me on Saturday night, even though he is supposed to have her til Monday.
He's "trying to be nice",,,,,,,,,,,,,yeah whatever. I don't believe it. I'm sure he as 'plans' for Saturday night and needs a sitter, that's why he's in such a hurry to confirm the schedule. I replied that I can't have her back Saturday, but I would take her Sunday. I was 'pleasant' about it, but I'm sure he'll be unhappy & it will be ME making it "impossible to be nice" yet again. Oh well.
Today was an absolutely beautiful day here, so I spent most of it outside. Ladybug helped me clean the inside of the car. It was so much work that I decided to just go to the automatic car wash for the outside!!
About V. We've had some heart to heart conversations this last week.
He hasn't listened to me for quite some time about where I stand. He admist that he's done it, but it is 'because he cares so much for me'. On the surface that may seem 'sweet',,,,,,,,but it doesn't make it ok for him to ignore my boundaries.
I care for him, but I am not in love with him. The 'pressure' of this situation has made the relationship uncomfortable and unworkable for me. I finally had to be blunt to the extreme with him about where I stand and I know he is not happy.
It is very important to me and I'm determined to keep my boundaries in any relationship I have. I didn't do so well with that last time and I'm not making the same mistake again. I don't like to see anyone disappointed or hurt, but there was little choice in this case.
I'm thinking the last year of being single/alone wasn't all that bad,,,,,,,,,,,,Lord knows it was much less complicated!! haha!
Bugsy:
Something about that gift thing seemed a little "off" to me.
I could just be Drac being careless.
Whatever.
Let us know about the phone call looking for it.....if ever.
To much persistance from "V"? Understand, its something worth persuing for "V", right?
Sorry you had to be blunt, but us guys can be hard-headed.
And he has invested in it, and he can surely be disappointed that he isn't seeing a return. However, it seems that you have let him know all the way along that your just sticking your toes into this relationship. But as we all have learned around here on MB, these statements can be ignored.
Oh well.
I hope you have a wonderful new year!
I might be rather scarce around here for the next 4 months. Considering what I do....
Good luck!
LG
:happynewyear:
Hope everyone had a fun & safe New Year Celebration! I can't wait to hear what everyone has been up to, so please get those updates in ya'll!!
As for me, the first thing is to let you all know who wins the prize for most accurate post on the Christmas gift,,,,
LG WINS!! Turns out the gift 'could' really have been for me!
Apparently DSS discussed it on the phone with Drac and informed me when I was taking them over to Drac's New Year's Eve that it 'was for you. There were 2 boxes the same size & shape,,,Ladybugs and I got it wrong'. So, I opened it when I got home. It is a wine stopper from Disney World, apparently they bought it on the trip. It's actually quite nice and something that Drac knows I would really like. Now, without it being something with my name engraved on it,,,there is that small chance that it wasn't really meant for me - - but I really don't care one way or another. It's overwith in my mind.
I spent a quiet New Year's Eve with the cats & the dog. I was really quite content.
V is still texting and calling. Wish he wouldn't as it is making me uncomfortable. I was totally, completely up front & honest with him from day one. I was straight forward recently in telling him that I do not want to see him anymore. He's not 'getting' it for some reason?? I'm not sure what to do about it. It's not that he's dangerous or anything,,,,just persistant despite what I've said.
I SO much do not want to go back to the "REAL" world tomorrow with work & school schedules. So, as soon as Ladybugs gets home we will be having pedicure night for our last day of relaxation!
I am going to go get things set up for her.
Hey Ma-ve-lous Bugs,
Wishing you much happiness and success in 2009.
Hey, Bugs
Glad the New Year is going well for you, but sorry about V. How about
"V, I appreciate your persistance and understand that guys sometimes think that they can prove themselves this way, but what you're doing right now isn't going to change my mind. It's only going to make me more uncomfortable, and I don't think that's what you have in mind, so I hope you'll back off. I'm really sorry, but I'm just not interested."
Or something like that.
EPH!!! Hey there!!
God Bless you, sweetie!! Thanks for stopping by! Hope all is well with you and yours. May this year be wonderful for you as well!
Thanks SD for the suggestion! I'll be talking to him sometime today. Not sure exactly what I'll be saying, but am sure it will be similiar to what you wrote.
Have a great week everyone!!
How did it go with V, Bugsy?
Hi SD!
Honestly, not so good, in my opinion.
We ended up exchanging emails. Mine said basically what your post suggested. I also said that I'd avoided responding to all of his text/vm messages because I do not want him to think that my feelings are anything other than what I'd stated. Most everyone of his messages indicated that he wasn't "listening" to what I had already told him several times in several ways.
His reply back was,,,,,,,well strange I think. He basically called me a liar for not telling him I was seeing someone else. THAT is SO wrong. I'd told him all along I'd be dating other people. He specifically told me several times that if I did date anyone else, he did NOT want to know about it.
He went on to say several not so nice things. But then, he turned it around at the end,,,,,,,,wishing me good luck with R (I don't think that I posted earlier about catching him with my phone? I asked if he was reading my text messages,,,,he swore he was not but that is the only way he would have know R's name! So the whole 'liar' thing doesn't really hold up much).
He then went on further,,,,,,,,saying that he would always LOVE me and that if at ANY time my feeling would change to please let him know.
I had to read it several times before just saying to myself, "You did the right thing ending it now".
I don't think I posted that his EX also sent me an email about our 'breakup' that was beyond psycho. She's sent me several (to which I never responded), but this one topped the cake!
Overall, I feel like I may have escaped a situation that would have only gotten more & more difficult to get out of in the long run.
But,,,I do still feel a bit bad. I think he is a nice guy, but he needs to do some further work on himself and dealing with his past.
This was most certainly a 'learning' experience for me. It tells me that my 'gut' feeling is STILL pretty on target when it comes to men, despite my not having used it in this way for more years than I care to count!
I knew fairly early on that this wasn't going to go far and I was right.
Now, that being said, it makes me curious as my gut feeling about R is saying something totally different!!
He basically called me a liar for not telling him I was seeing someone else. THAT is SO wrong. I'd told him all along I'd be dating other people. He specifically told me several times that if I did date anyone else, he did NOT want to know about it.
He went on to say several not so nice things. But then, he turned it around at the end,,,,,,,,wishing me good luck with R (I don't think that I posted earlier about catching him with my phone? I asked if he was reading my text messages,,,,he swore he was not but that is the only way he would have know R's name! So the whole 'liar' thing doesn't really hold up much).
He then went on further,,,,,,,,saying that he would always LOVE me and that if at ANY time my feeling would change to please let him know.
You did make the right call. I would terminate all contact with him now and forever. He is becoming creepy.
Happy New Year Bugs.
Bugsy,
You did the right thing with V. I agree with Chris about cutting off contact with him. It's really best for you AND him.
As for how you feel about R, well, have fun, Bugsy. Enjoy the company of someone that you really desire. Happy 2009 to you!
Sorry it was unpleasant, but good to get it (and him) out of the way.
Now, that being said, it makes me curious as my gut feeling about R is saying something totally different!!
Do we know about R yet? I only remember MCD and that Drac moron you hung out with once.
R is the long distance guy who Bugsy warmed up to RIGHT AWAY!!! Dare I say there were flames involved...
flames?
Hmm... next time we hear the story I half expect there to be shag carpeting too...
Happy New Year to you, too, Chris!
You did make the right call. I would terminate all contact with him now and forever. He is becoming creepy.
I've already implemented a permanent pitch black plan b on him. He actually sent me a TM this afternoon, trying to to be nice/funny. SCARY!!
SD,,,,I believe I mentioned R in early December. I don't think I mentioned 2 or 3 other single dates that I've went on, but as SL remembers, I am sure I talked about the 'offical' first date with R.
Quick version - I've known R for over 4 years through business. I never had any idea of his interest in anything other than a professional relationship until just recently. I guess I was just wandering in the BS fog, because he swears that he dropped several 'hints' since my divorce but I never picked up on them until now.
So, we had an 'offical' date before Christmas afer a couple of recent more business type dinners prior to that. His invite was very romantic, the date was the same, and it's been that way since.
He came to town last weekend and it was incredibly fun!
The SL description of "Flames" isn't too terribly far off,,,,,and apparently it is that way for both! :crosseyedcrazy:
We have agreed to take it one day at a time and see where things go. The long distance thing may present quite a few challenges,,,especially if this ends up going where it has potential to go. We'll just worry about that if/when we get there.
James,,,James,,,shag carpet??? What is that all about??
His reply back was,,,,,,,well strange I think. He basically called me a liar for not telling him I was seeing someone else. THAT is SO wrong. I'd told him all along I'd be dating other people. He specifically told me several times that if I did date anyone else, he did NOT want to know about it.
He went on to say several not so nice things. But then, he turned it around at the end,,,,,,,,wishing me good luck with R (I don't think that I posted earlier about catching him with my phone? I asked if he was reading my text messages,,,,he swore he was not but that is the only way he would have know R's name! So the whole 'liar' thing doesn't really hold up much).
He then went on further,,,,,,,,saying that he would always LOVE me and that if at ANY time my feeling would change to please let him know.
This is EXACTLY like dealing with POWS...striaght out of the book "The verbally Abusive Relationship" by Paticia Evans
The twisting of things...making YOU second guess yourself and then the honeymoon! GOOD RIDDENS!
YUCK!!!!
Looking forward to hearing what happens with "R"...
Yea, the coffee cup really sucked!
Happy New Year Bugs,
My gosh, but you have been busy with gentleman in your life. It's absolutely incredible to see the growth in you. How you are learning about boundaries, what's acceptable to you and what isn't. And when it isn't, you are taking care of yourself and exercising your right to personal power and protection.
You are helping to set an example for us who may be in this position one day and it's nice to see how it's done.
You are just the most amazing person of strength, spirit and desire to heal from the past hurts.
Hey Queenie!
You should write inspirational material as your profession! You are so kind.
I don't know that I am an excellent example,,,,I'm just a woman trying to the best she can with what she's been granted in this life!
I can tell you that I know I wouldn't be where I am today if it weren't for all of you wonderful, crazy characters here on MB!
V continues with attempting contact. It's really nuts how much this is like implementing a Plan B! YIKES! The good thing is that as I was not really emotionally invested, it's not that difficult for me in this case. I do feel 'bad', as I'm not one who wants anyone to feel hurt because of me in any way. It's just the way I was raised.
I was talking to a good friend last night who was lamenting the "why" of things in regards to being 'taken for granted' at work. Got me to thinking of myself, and the issues of relationships/marriage. I've been down that road myself. It comes from not speaking up for ourselves,,,,,,,,,from not being radically honest.
I'm determined to use the MB principles in my future relationships. In fact, R and I have actually talked about some of them already. He has been entirely on board with what we have discussed to date, which gives me great hope. I haven't presented anything as "MB Principles" per say, but have brought up a couple of things in conversation.
If things continue to develop, I will be providing him a copy of HN/HN. We'll see how it goes.
We are meeting this weekend at a mid-way point between our cities for dinner Saturday night. I'm looking forward to it. Perhaps not as much as Foxx is looking forward to Vegas
,,,,,,,,,,but I'm definately excited about it.
Hope everyone has an outstanding day!
Rin,
Sorry! I didn't mean to overlook your post!!
WOW,,,,,,,,,,it hadn't even occured to me that V's actions would/could be considered that way??!! I knew it was 'weird' and definitely 'wrong' but I can see what you are saying.
My goodness, I could not imagine being in a long term relationship, let alone a marriage where that was the 'norm'! I understand what you went thru now, more than ever!
I think it might be a good idea to "accidentially" drop that coffee cup in the very near future!! Who needs those kinds of reminders sitting around?
Hey Queenie!
You should write inspirational material as your profession!
No kidding! I mean what woman wouldn't want to receive a plaque or card that says
"My gosh, but you have been busy with gentleman in your life"
I just want one that says
"It's absolutely incredible to see the growth in you"
:happyhanukkah:
"It's absolutely incredible to see the growth in you"
Can I steal this one in about 7 months to give to the Ice Queen as she heads towards the end of her gestation?
It's Queenies line. You'll have to ask her, but I can't think of a more fitting card for just such an occasion
Can I steal this one in about 7 months to give to the Ice Queen as she heads towards the end of her gestation?
I second that one!
Bugs, it's all good...missing the post that is...been there done that!
Yea, it wasn't until I came to MB and started talking to ppl that I figured out what was going on...it's all good...MB has been a blessing in a ton of ways...no regrets here! Just have to watch POWS very closely not to get caught up in HIS stuff...that's why I love Plan B so much...and to think that I was SOO SCARIED of it then...
Sorry you had to deal with that BTW!
Can I have a plaque that says: Congrads on getting rid of all the crap in your life and shining through?
:pumkin:
Lawdy, Lawdy,,,,,,
I'm glad you didn't suggest I get a plaque about "showing everyone 'in this position' how it's done"!
James, I agree, I can't think of a better card to send the IQ in 7 months!!
Rin, sweetie, you don't need a plaque of any kind,,,your light shines so bright these days that no one can help but see it for miles around!!
It comes from not speaking up for ourselves,,,,,,,,,from not being radically honest.
Exactly! I had a situation come up just today with my job that would have turned out badly had I not spoken up for myself and been radically honest! I think I earned some hard-earned respect today.
Your experience with V was good for you right now, and it's good that it happened when you've just begun to "step out". There are some highly dysfunctional people out there. Not everyone is blessed with MB. LOL
Quote:
"It's absolutely incredible to see the growth in you"
Can I steal this one in about 7 months to give to the Ice Queen as she heads towards the end of her gestation?
I almost pee'd my pants....
OMGI keep telling everyone we need to write a book from the BS's perspective, market it and go on a cruise...
Your experience with V was good for you right now, and it's good that it happened when you've just begun to "step out".
I agree with PM...it's hard to recognize things like this...sometimes it's so subtle...
I had that one date with Mr. Crazy who wouldn't respect my boundaries and I quickly recognized it and did a immediate Plan B...he tried contacting me several times after, but I didn't reply...
I just figured it's part of the learning process, insuring an awesome future for me and the boys!
I'm just wondering about the barrel of good ones that don't do drugs or drink excessively... :crosseyedcrazy:
It's all good...
Queen, you needing some depends reading today?
Queen, you needing some depends reading today?
Not a bad idea.....
Your experience with V was good for you right now, and it's good that it happened when you've just begun to "step out". There are some highly dysfunctional people out there. Not everyone is blessed with MB.
And good for those of us who are also just beginning to step out. The sharing is appreciated.
I have to agree that the stuff with V is a good experience for you.
I have to admit to being worried about you -- because he was moving so fast, and working so hard to "lock you up." KWIM?
You got a good head on your shoulders, I shoulda known you'd handle it right!
Bugsy:
I hope that it doesn't come down to filing Harrassment charges against "V".
Hope your next date goes well with R.
And this:
LG WINS!! Turns out the gift 'could' really have been for me!
Shucks....
LG
I have to admit to being worried about you -- because he was moving so fast, and working so hard to "lock you up." KWIM?
This is also a classic sign. A person who wants to more to fast into a relationship. Red Flag all the way!
I actually had that one guy who was not respecting my boundaries, who was pushing for a relationship...I think that the best thing you can do is pay attention to your instincts, just as Bugsy and I did...
One thing that I remember him saying was something like: "Well, I tried being the nice guy, the religious guy, the [censored], and none of that worked!" When he said that I thought, why don't you try being yourself...
I don't think that one can be too cautious when protection self...becasue if we protect self then in essence we are protecting our children too!
Verbal abuse Charactertics FYI for all ppl out in the dating world whether male or female!
Hi everyone!
Thanks so much for the fun, for the concern, and for the Support!!
I just have a few minutes but HAVE to post about 2 calls from Drac today.
First was this morning. The purpose of the call was to ask me if I knew anything about upcoming changes at our work. Seems there is some re-organization coming down,,,,some of which he knew about, some he didn't. He did ask if I knew anything, and "does it effect you?"
So, we had some general business discussion about the known & unknown factors. I was glad that I was able to make it just like a conversation with any other casual 'work acquaintance'. I did make it clear that nothing that happens locally will effect me in any way.
So, in the course of the conversation, the subject comes up about re-location. It is not unusual in our industry or our company. He says, "I have thought about what it would be like to pull up roots and just move." I did not comment either way.
THEN
He later says, "I've often wondered if it wouldn't have been better to not go over to "x" company and 'we' had all packed up together and gone somewhere new".
WTF??
My only reply was, "well that's not something I'd ever thought about." and I changed the subject. The conversation ended with him telling me he'd call me after a meeting this afternoon and let me know what he'd found out.
So,,,,,he did finally call. There is some MAJOR re-org happening, including his current boss moving to Vermont. So, I asked him if he was 'house shopping in Vermont'. He said no.
Then, he filled me in on some stuff,,,,and later says something about how he's heard that Vermont is very nice. I concurred. His next comment is, "well, you can do your job from anywhere,,,right? How about Vermont?" a BIG PAUSE "we would find houses down the street?"
I laughed. I said, I'd do a lot of things for my girl, but moving to Vermont for HIS job wasn't one of them.
As the 'work' conversation is winding down, he starts telling me how he can't move because his MOM wants to move in with him. So, a longer conversation ensues about his mom's family issues.
OMG!! Like I care? Only in that it effects my daughter.
He talked about how incredible Ladybug is,,,what a great kid,,,how she's done really well under the 'difficult circumstances'. He said he can't go more than a few days without her with the way it is now,,,,,,,and even that is very, very hard. I said, "yes, I completely understand,,,,there isn't anyone in the world who could understand more." I think for the FIRST time, he got the point!
He finally wrapped it up,,,,,by asking me to let him know about the work changes if I hear anything and saying he'd do the same, and "talk to you soon".
All I can say is it is pretty obvious to me that Mr. Drac doesn't have any current Ho or he wouldn't be talking to me!!
Just had to get this all off my chest and down on paper!
I gotta run for now but will be back later to catch up with everyone!!
Hi Bugs,
...totally agree with Queenie....
You are helping to set an example for us who may be in this position one day and it's nice to see how it's done.
...with respect to everything you are handling....
Thanks Bugs.
Oh yeah Bugs, it is painfully obvious that he is now without HO.
Once he finds HO3 (or is it HO4 now?) you won't hear from him again until that bites the dust. Dark is better I would say.
I agree with Chai..dark IS better!
He finally wrapped it up,,,,,by asking me to let him know about the work changes if I hear anything and saying he'd do the same, and "talk to you soon".
Therefore, I hope that you will not be sharing your info with him UNLESS it causes YOU to have to move, which it doesn't appear that is going to happen...
YEP, would have to say that he's looking for his needs to be met and I'm waiting on the Poor ME to come along too...he's already setting the tone for that one with the mom thing...
Next, it will be poor me about his job and then in his eyes everything will go to crap, that's when HO3 or 4 will come into play, becasue BUGS will not play ball anymore...
FORE!!!!
A Bugs gets off a great swing!
That's right Rin,,,,,Bugs does NOT play any more. At least not if Drac is in the game!
Funny how we can suddenly tell when we've taken that next step to emotional freedom from the Ex. In the past, when Drac has reached out like this, I felt COMPELLED to continue to reach back out to him. I'd look for any excuse (or I'd just make one up) to continue the contact.
Not today. No desire to do it.
Yes, it crossed my mind, but only in regards to recognizing the fact that I don't feel that need this time around.
Oh, and there is no way he could possibly FORCE me to move. I did let him know that should he ever choose to want to move himself for whatever reason, that I'd "work with him to continue to see Ladybugs as much as possible".
He doesn't know that I didn't say that for HIS benefit. I said it for Ladybugs and MY benefit. Of course it is important that she continue contact with him no matter what,,,no matter where. I will always support HER in that. I also said it, because who knows? Maybe *I* will be the one to want to re-locate someday. By saying this, I put it on the record that *I'd* be willing to work with him if the positions were reversed. Just a little hedge against future possibilities.
I have a busy, busy day today and am headed to a 1/2 way point tomorrow to meet R for Sat. night dinner date, so I'd better hit the work.
Hope everyone has a great weekend.
Thanks for the kuddos!!! As I don't always feel like I am in a position to give 'advice' to many folks, I'm happy to be of service by just sharing my stuff,,,,,,
OWWWWW, EXCITING!!!!!
Looking forward to hearing about the Classy, Sophicated BUGSY and her FABULOUS TIME WITH R...
WHOHOOOOOO!!!
Yeah Buddy!!! What Rin said!!
Don't do anything that we wouldn't do Bugs....
OWWWWW, EXCITING!!!!!
Looking forward to hearing about the Classy, Sophicated BUGSY and her FABULOUS TIME WITH R...
WHOHOOOOOO!!!
I agree!!!!
Don't do anything we wouldn't do!
That sure doesn't limit you much, does it?
Morning, all!
Well, the weekend was wonderful. Met R Saturday afternoon. Sat and talked for a few hours, then to dinner.
He took me to a 'very' nice steak restaurant for dinner (for my birthday early). It was sooo good. He even remembered what wine I had mentioned as my favorite & ordered it as a surprise. It was the kind of dinner that takes 3 hours! My favorite!!
In short, the dinner was fantastic, and the company was even better.
I get to see him again when I am in his town this week for business. (convenient, isn't it?)
Suffice it to say that we are both very much enjoying one another's company and learning more about each other. I know that we both have had the thought of'what if' this gets more serious. It won't be easy. We each have significant ties to our current towns,,,,,,,,,,,,but we'll cross that bridge if/when we really get to it.
I gotta get Ladybugs to school.
Hope everyone had a great weekend!
Bugsy:
Great news!
Distance is a factor in a relationship. And Dr. H recommends that married folks DO NOT spend nights away from each other.
But that is putting the cart before the horse, isn't it?
Just enjoy to ride for now. The other stuff will work out.
Can't wait to hear the "Drac" howl if he finds out...
LG
Can't wait to hear the "Drac" howl if he finds out...
Good for you, Bugsy. Here's hoping for the best for you.
It's hard to see at the beginning, but the waywards really are the losers in the end.
Fox
It's hard to see at the beginning, but the waywards really are the losers in the end.
Fox, I completely agree with this statement...the more Plan B I do the more I see that POWS is floundering in a world of troubles, as is the case with most waywards...
it's proved to me over and over again that the grass is not always greener on the other side for them...in most case for the Betrayed, it is!
Wayward spouses trade down. Betrayed spouses get new opportunities.
Right on, sdguy.
Fox
Good afternoon all!
I figured now might be a good time for an update,,,,as I sit in my freezing cold hotel room in Columbus waiting for maintenance to come look at the heat.
So, let's see. Last weekend was very nice. Dinner at Morton's. Food was GREAT! Wine was Superb! Company was even better. We had a lovely time.
V continues to call and text. I don't accept his calls nor reply to his texts. He sent what I would call a "highly inappropriate" picture mail Saturday night when i was out with R. Not good. And certainly not the kind of thing I want to get nor would I associate with a man that would send that kind of thing to me.
Further drama ensued Monday morning after gettting an email from V's Ex wife,,,,,that he has cancer & is refusing treatment. The drama/issues/stories are becoming INCREDIBLE! I want no part of it whatsoever!!!
There have been a couple of calls from Drac. The one last week directly to me asking about the restructure at our work. Another last night asking if it was OK with me if Ladybug spend the night with a friend since she did not have school today due to the extreme cold.
WHAT? He's never called to ask my 'opinion' or input on what he allows her to do during HIS time????
Then, later last night he called again. Supposedly to let me know that he reminded Ladybug to call me but he forgot to remind her again before he left her friends house when he dropped her off. ????????????
He then hits me with a "do you want to know about x at work?". This proceeded into a 20 minute conversation about work. His fears of losing his job, etc.
I told him that I did not expect he would be cut. He's very good at what he does and is recognized for his work. He lamented about how this is "all he knows". I can't believe it myself, but I proceeded to reassure him that his skills can be applied to x,y, and z industries,,,,,that he shouldn't sell himself so short.
It went on with his worry about the current job market. AGAIN, here comes Bugs to reassure him that "There are jobs out there for the 'right' people, and when it comes to work, Drac, you are the 'right' people'.
What is wrong with me???? I can't believe I sat there for 20 minutes giving him such support and reassurance!!!
Ya know what? I don't feel bad or sorry about it. Even though HE does NOT DESERVE that from me,,,,,it makes me feel better to have done it because it was the right thing for ME.
Does that make sense?
So,,,,I haven't heard yet of any more changes at work but they are on the way. As SD said of his sitch, I am very blessed and will be fine no matter what may come. A nice severence package would be in store for me as well, and a change wouldn't be the worst thing to ever happen.
I am having dinner with R tonight and have a customer meeting in the morning. Then back home for a kid weekend. Ladybug can't wait to take me out for my bday Saturday,,,,I hope I get to pick the restaurant!! LOL!
I gotta run,,,,,,,,my fingers are FROZEN!! Time to get a new room!!!
Wow Bugs. And V seemed like such a good guy in the beginning. Goes to show that you never really know someone. That is why they caution against rebound relationships.
Stay warm. I'm so close to Columbus and wish we had time to grab a latte or something. Maybe next time.....
Stay warm...
Hi Bugs,
Just stopping by to see your travels and hear about life. My goodness President, but you keep busy in life.
Isn't amazing how drama follows us when we don't go looking for it.
I for one am glad that you are having dinner tonight with the 2nd man. I hope you have the most special and wonderful dinner in spite of the cold.
You are such a class act, and I know that G-d is looking down on your shining because you are being true to yourself and that's what he wants. To become who he always envisioned for you...
Let us know how it goes Madam President...
Drac doesn't deserve you, Bugs.
Morton's . . . mmm.
Stay warm, everyone!
Bugsy:
We talk alot about restraining orders around here, maybe it's time for you to get one against "V".
Sorry, you are a catch. But you don't need this.
LG
Hi Bugs,
Ya know what? I don't feel bad or sorry about it. Even though HE does NOT DESERVE that from me,,,,,it makes me feel better to have done it because it was the right thing for ME.
Does that make sense?
It does to me.
It's not about Drac....it's about Bugs being...generous.... and being OK with it.
Hi everyone!
Thanks for the great support!
For now, LG, I don't think a restraining order is called for,,,but I will not hesitate should it get to that point. For now, it's just voice mail and text messages. It's just that the text messages have gotten more & more strange. Yesterday was the FIRST day that I had no communication attempts from V. Let's hope it is finally the end!
Yesterday was my bday. I had several text messages and a few phone calls from friends wishing me a happy day. Including a TM from Drac.
When I went to pick up DSS Friday, I had to call Drac to find out where DSS was, as he was not home. He didn't have school that day and apparently had gone over to a friend's house. That took 2 calls with Drac. Then, DSS gets there and I found out he is out of medicine AGAIN. This is like the 4th or 5th time recently and I'd had enough so I called Drac.
Of course, he didn't take responsibility, but tried to lay it on DSS. Turns out Drac HAD a script, but hadn't gotten it filled. He promised to fill it first thing Sat and bring it over in the am. Well, 2 phone calls later on Sat (which I let the kids answer and he did not ask to speak with me), he finally showed up at the house at 4 pm!! Thankfully, I had a dose for DSS at the house that I was able to give him that am.
Drac called when he was pulling up (I let DD answer). Guess he didn't want to come to the door? Anyway, she went out. Came back in to get DS. Went out and in a couple of more times. I did not get up or go to the door, but did look out the upstairs window at one time, as he was here for so long. He was standing outside the car playing with my dog!! Later when the kids called him, he didn't even have time to talk to DSS because he was "at dinner". That is what he tells Ladybugs when he's on a date thinking she won't figure it out! LOL!
I didn't really do much for my day. The kids were in the mood to just stay home and hang out. So, that's what we did. I was a bit 'down',,,no particular reason, but just feeling funky. Maybe it was a little bit due to having too much interaction with the Drac. Went to my mom's for dinner. Homemade pecan pie and chocolate cake!! That was it. I'm actually going to see R next weekend and will have a bday night then.
I should go shower and get ready for church. After, my BIL is to come over to look at my broken garage door! I am hoping he can fix and I won't have to replace!!! UGH!
I will try to catch up with everyone later today.
Belated Happy Birthday wishes, Bugs!
Happy Belated Birthday Bugs!
Happy birthday Bugs!!! Thank you for sharing your experiences here, you are an inspiration.
Happy B-day Bugs. My treat on that latte whenever we get together!!
Happy Belated Birthday Bugs
Thanks for the well wishes everyone! Can't believe another year has come and gone.
In the shower this morning, I realized that the 2 year mark of Drac leaving has come and gone without a blip on my radar screen. He supposedly continues to fish in the match.com pond,,,,and while I wish I could say it doesn't bother me in the least,,,,,,,,,,it doesn't occupy my mind or tear up my emotions the way it once did. Frankly, I find it a bit sad & funny all at the same time. He sure is "Livin' the Dream", but it's certainly not any dream that I want a part of.
He did call again yesterday to give me a 'work' update on 2 folks that were let go yesterday. Also said that more would happen today. Thankfully, he would not be privy to any info about my department, so I know it's not about my job.
His aunt called me to tell me that his Aunt B is in the hospital. Aunt B watched Ladybugs as a baby & we have stayed close. She even called me last week to wish me a happy birthday. Drac hates it. She doesn't care! ha! She told them that if they were calling Drac to let him know she was not well, then they'd darn well better make sure to call me, too!
When I spoke to her daughter, I found out that Drac had not returned the voice mail,,,,,so when he called to tell me about the work stuff, I asked if he'd called them back. He said no. I let him know that he needed to call because Aunt B is in the hospital. He sounded surprised,,,,and I'm sure we are all in trouble because they called me. Oh well. As they say all of the time, "Drac divorced you. WE didn't! " ha!
So, I'm off this afternoon for a weekend at R's house. Am really looking forward to it. V continues to call & text. I don't respond,,,and really don't listen or read the messages. Maybe someday he'll finally stop?!
Hope you all have a great weekend! I gotta pack!
Oy.. sorry I missed your birthday Bugsy.. a happy belated one then!
Enjoy your trip! Sounds like you're doin just fine.
In the shower this morning
Yes, I like the intro
So, I'm off this afternoon for a weekend at R's house
Starting to think R stands for Rico Suave
V continues to call & text.
Can't believe I used to root for that guy
Have a nice weekend Love Bug!
I'm sure there will be lots of this
, this
, and very little of this
Hope you all have a great weekend!
You, too!
Well, well,,,,,silence from BC until the mention of the shower!
How do you always manage to show up at 'just' the right time?!
Yep,,V seems to have turned out to be a stalker of sorts. Thankfully not dangerous,,just sad & annoying. Had another TM from him last night. I didn't respond.
The weekend at R's was very nice. It was what I would call just very 'normal'. Just relaxing, watching a bit of tv, shopping, dinner, talking,,,,all of which was really fun. A good way to get to spend an average weekend getting to know each other. He even cooked for me!
Unless something comes up at work requiring me to travel his direction, we won't see each other for a couple of weeks.
I am very 'taken' with him so far. I find it a bit comforting and a bit strange all at the same time to now be 'seeing' someone I've known for several years. While I've always thought he was attractive, I never really thought beyond that since I was married when we met.
It does amaze me when I think about how things have changed. I do like the fact that even though he also thought I was attractive, he never did or said anything out of respect for me and my marriage. He even made it a point to 'wait' after my D to give me time to heal and so that I would be at a point where I would be open to possibilities. Hmmmmm,,,,there's a whole lot to find out about him yet, but I'm liking what I see so far. Time will tell.
Ladybug had a good weekend,I guess,,,apparently most of which was spent running around with Drac and his GF (the one from our work)
Friday she called from a jewelry party that the GF took her to, and they were a bit late yesterday since they had to 'hurry up to go to K's house to set up her tv'. I thought it was 'off' betwen them, but apparently not, despite his still fishing in the match.com pond on a daily basis.
As much as I really do hate the fact that he is seeing someone from our work, I'm glad that I no longer am the one he is treating as an 'option' rather than first choice the way he is treating her. I wonder if she even has a clue? I might feel sorry for her if I didn't know a great deal about her history (she was close friends with the HO at their previous work but now it turns out they don't have a good word to say about each other,,,,,and this one knew all about their A,,,,and condoned it)
So, another fun and exciting work week begins. Friday was HORRIBLE with some very good friends/co-workers being let go. Many of them were such valuable assets to the company. Drac called me Friday morning to tell me about several of them,,,,,,,,,,,,and he was actually in tears. He is 'safe', but in fact is getting a 'promotion' (i.e. double his work) with no increase in pay. Don't know that that's really a promotion?!
So far, my position is safe, but that's not etched in stone. I'm not worrying about it, but it is a possibility that continues to hover about for now. As I've done for the past 16 years at this company, I'll just keep doing my job. Nothing else I can do. Worrying about it won't change anything. I know that no matter what happens, I'll be ok. Who knows,,,,,maybe I'll end up with a transfer closer to R?!??
I need to go check weather forecasts,,,I have a driving trip planned mid-week that may be impacted by some winter weather.
Have a good one!
Morning Bugs! Happy belated b-day! Sorry I missed that too!
You sound so wonderful! Great to hear that things are going so well for you! I need to do a little updating myself!
I love the fact that R never said anything to you either! Speaks to his intregity! THat has an awesome power right there!
As for V, he's hmmmm....
pissin me off messin with my girl!
You are handling it great! Of course, I don't need to really tell you that!
AH...on the BC note!
Amazing, simply amazing!
Hi Bugs,
....Drac called me Friday morning to tell me about several of them....
Just want you to know, Bugs, you are the example I use to encourage myself that 'contact' with a WS/exWS is possible, if BS can figure out how to minimize/manage triggers or 'negative' effects of contact, and by being convinced that the only power WS has over BS is the one we GIVE or allow them to have....
I have now had at least 2 long conversations with WS. I HAVE needed to prepare myself BEFORE....A LOT!....because WSs are draining
...but I am quite satisfied with the results....some frustrations being vented on both parts... yet some 'knots' are being slowly unravelled as far separation of assets goes, which is my objective, while making it clear that, even though I am open to have discussions with him, I am NOT going the friendly co-parenting route. It's a question of balance....and it takes some work....but it can be done...at least, so far.
It looks like with the passage of time...and having had only a few exchanges already....it helps me feel less ANXIOUS about the exchange, which in turn allows me to keep a 'clearer mind' and can better 'hold my own' in our exchanges.
So, thanks for sharing. It has been really helpful to me.
I love the fact that R never said anything to you either! Speaks to his intregity! THat has an awesome power right there!
so true..so true... good luck with this, Bugs. You deserve all the attention he is offering...and MORE!
Hey Rin!
Not to worry,,,,while V is a bit of an annoyance, that is all it is at this point in time. I'll yell if it gets worse and you all can come have a 'chat' with him! LOL!
Yes, I do think that R does have integrity. I've seen it over the years through business, but am learning more about it/him on a personal level day by day. He owns some investment/rental property. I've seen how he deals with his tenants,,,and I am even more impressed than ever. He's not only fair, but quite generous. The fact that he has virtually a zero turnover rate in occupancy speaks volumes in that regard!
Again, am taking it as slow as I can, knowing that these things take time.
I mentioned yesterday that Drac is seeing the co-worker ho again. Well yesterday morning, Ladybugs had a bit of a meltdown. She's always a bit more 'clingy' with me after a weekend at Drac's, but she seemed fairly good Sunday night. In an unusual move for me, I actually asked about Drac and Ho2 to which she replied, "that's none of your business, Mom".
Yikes! I told her that she was right and we dropped the subject. Yesterday morning she was being particularly difficult about doing her hair. It got to the point where I put down the brush and told her that she needed to do it herself and I walked away. She knew I was upset and immediately starting crying, telling me she was sorry.
She came in to me and we talked,,, but she really had herself worked up. She apologized for being mean, and then went on to say how she didn't want to leave me. Asking to please stay home with me for the day. We got through that and she started talking about how all weekend they had to 'run, run, run' with Daddy.
"He made us go to K's house. I didn't want to go to K's house. I just wanted to stay home with Daddy. But he called us brats. He said that he NEVER gets to do what HE wants to do because we always do what WE want"
WHAT?? WTF???? This man does what he wants EVERY day of his life! How DARE he try to make the kids feel guilty like that because of a Ho!
We talked through it and she perked up. I did error in telling her that it wasn't true that he "never" gets to do what he wants,,,,that he does get to (just like me) do what he wants when she is not with him. In the car, she commented that she thought he was 'always home' when she wasn't with him. I told her no, that is not the case. She asked me where he went/what he did. I replied that I don't know, and that like she pointed out the night before, it's really none of my business. I told her that I shouldn't ask questions about him, and I'm sure he doesn't ask questions about me.
She replied, "Mommy, I meant that only about when it comes to K. And Daddy does too ask questions about you. I just tell him I don't know and then I go upstairs".
I told her that she knows I've always said that she doesn't have to lie or keep secrets for me. That if she is asked any questions it's ok to just tell the truth. She obviously feels the need to 'keep secrets' for me, and she told me as much. Again, I assured her that all along we've talked about this and I never want her to feel like she has to lie on my behalf. I don't want her to feel caught in the middle in any way.
Which is why I feel so BAD about having asked a question. I should not have done that. I'm not sure where it came from, as it's been AGES since I've asked her anything about him. GRRR! Even as far as I've come, I still stumble back from time to time.
Luna, I'm glad that my posts have been helpful. As you say, the interactions DO get easier with time. It's also better when the settlement issues are complete and the interactions are less confrontational and less 'important' to us. You are doing great!
Well, even though it's a snow day here, I need to get to work!
Bugsy:
How are you! and Happy Belated Birthday!
However, I wanted to ask you about this:
I mentioned yesterday that Drac is seeing the co-worker ho again. Well yesterday morning, Ladybugs had a bit of a meltdown. She's always a bit more 'clingy' with me after a weekend at Drac's, but she seemed fairly good Sunday night. In an unusual move for me, I actually asked about Drac and Ho2 to which she replied, "that's none of your business, Mom".
Yikes! I told her that she was right and we dropped the subject. Yesterday morning she was being particularly difficult about doing her hair. It got to the point where I put down the brush and told her that she needed to do it herself and I walked away. She knew I was upset and immediately starting crying, telling me she was sorry.
....
Which is why I feel so BAD about having asked a question. I should not have done that. I'm not sure where it came from, as it's been AGES since I've asked her anything about him. GRRR! Even as far as I've come, I still stumble back from time to time.
If Drac is dating HO2, is she an after or before the Divorce HO?
If before, I can understand why you wouldn't necessarily want to ask about her or put Ladybugs in the position to have to tell your to "MYOB!".
However, if she was later, even if she and HO1 were "friends" thier relationship now is just a fact of life. Asking about that should be ok. And a topic that you may not want to explore often, but Ladybugs should be somewhat free to talk about her experiences while there.
Obviously, the real problam is Drac and his revolving door of HO's and thier exposure to Ladybugs. The cumulative negative effect of THAT on Ladybugs is starting to show. I don't even want to think where DSS is in all this.
One thing is your personal mental health. What DO you want to know? Not much, I'm sure. But Ladybugs needs to have your listening board, about HER concerns.
Oh well, its early. And I have to run. Taxes wait for NO snow. I would/could say more.
LG
Well, goodness, Bugsy, you're not perfect, woman!!!
So you asked a question about Drac. It caused a commotion. You resolved it. You did just fine. It's NORMAL to be curious.
I don't ask DS about his dad, specifically, when he's away, just if he had fun or did something of interest. At one point last week, DS "that's none of your business" to which I replied, "your well being IS my business, and I can't know how you are doing without asking; your choice in how you answer".
The truth is, Bugsy, it IS my business what DS does, where he does it, who he does it with, just as it is the Z's business. It is not, however, my business what the Z does. There is a difference.
You talked it out and got to the bottom of her reaction with Ladybugs and that makes all the difference in the world.
Schools are closed today, for the smidge of a dusting that we are getting right now :RollieEyes: It does look like we are expecting ICE later, though, so I can understand.
Bugs - you're doing really well.
But there's one thing you're missing in this "none-of-my-business" train of thought.
Your daughter is emotionally upset and wanting to miss school because of what ever is going on at Drac's house. It is SO your business to ask whatever questions gets to the bottom of your daughter's distress. She wants you to care enough about HER to ask if everything is ok- especially when obviously she's upset by it.
There's a radio spot running locally that's sponsored by a church that ends with "Mom; Dad - care enough about us to ask the tough questions." - they're using the example of teens going on dates, staying out too late, or addressing teen attitudes toward drinking and smoking and drugs. But little ones like ladybugs need you to care enough to ask the tough questions too.
So don't ever be afraid to ask. Drac is nothing to you now. But your daughter is everything!
Oh snow day, snow day,,,,makes me want to play day!
Not much in the mood for work!
Thanks for the input everyone. Let me assure you that I definately DO ask questions specific to Ladybug and what goes on with HER when she is not with me. She also knows that it is 'safe' to talk about anything or any ONE that is around. Even when Ho1 was around, I expended a great deal of effort to make sure that she felt safe sharing,,,,,,,,,,and let me tell you there were times that it made my physically ill to do it, but I did it, nevertheless.
My 'no questions' rule pertains more to Drac and his revolving door of women. At least weekly, if not more often, he changes his communication with Ladybug because he has a "work dinner". Yeah,,,,sure,,,,,,,Lord, if these were ALL work dinners it's no wonder that our company needs to make cut backs!
LG, you hit the nail on the head with your comment about what DSS is going through being there virtually 24/7. He never says a word about that stuff, but I know that it bothers him. He's faced daily with coming in 2nd or 3rd in Drac's life to work and women.
Drac just sent me a copy of DSS's report card. The best I can say is that he is passing. Drac made a big deal of how he called & talked to the counselor,,,,,got DSS involved 2-3x per week in after school tutoring. Report card shows that 1 grade came up from failing to a C. One grade improved to a c+, but THREE grades went DOWN!!! What??
I did email Drac and try to 'nicely' ask what is going on. Here's how I worded it.
"Thanks for sending this. Is he going to continue with after school help? What's your take on the setup/process/people involved?
I am sure you are as concerned as I am to see that despite the help, only 2 grades went up while 3 went down. Thank goodness he tested well"
His reply was that no, he is not continuing the after school tutoring. He said it did not 'address the concerns he had' and was basically just a study hall. All it did help him cut down distractions to get his homework done. He says that DSS's biggest problem is organization, getting work done and then turned in.
The only other comment was that he has already discussed with DSS that he will be attending summer school.
Nothing about WHAT he is doing to help DSS at all. Sending him to summer school helps Drac,,,in that DSS isn't home alone as much of the summer. GRRR! I hate that my hands are tied here.
Heaven forbid that Drac step up to the plate on a daily basis. I know that Drac's take is that at 14, DSS should be doing more of this on his own,,,,but gosh darn it WHO is the parent here? Coulda/shoulda/woulda, the kid needs help!
To further my Drac frustrations, he forwarded me an email about his aunt who is in the hospital. I replied that I am very concerned, including concern over her daughter's ability to handle the dr's & to manage her mom's care. His reply was that he talked to the daughter, she knows she is in over her head, but the problem is the 'family' butting in and the aunt talking bad about her own daughter.
It's so funny that he goes back & forth about his family. One minute they are such a 'pain', the next he is upset (at me) because he 'had' to move away from them. Right now he is too busy with work & women. As he has ho2 to talk to about things, I get little to nothing. If ho2 exits the picture (again), I'll be getting phone calls and lengthy messages again.
So, for my own mental health, interactions cease for a while,,, at least any of my own instigation.
And, to top off my email fun today, there was one from V. Apparently he is starting chemo treatment and really wants to see me before his hair falls out. He talks about his sitch being worse than he realized,,,,but that he will fight & win. Also he tells me about a woman he's met & is starting to date (she, too, has cancer). Finally, he wraps up with not wanting to die before he can say 'goodbye' to people who have meant the most to him & I am on the top of the list??
What do I do with that???
Ok, snow day or not, perhaps work will be easier to deal with than this stuff!
And, to top off my email fun today, there was one from V. Apparently he is starting chemo treatment and really wants to see me before his hair falls out. He talks about his sitch being worse than he realized,,,,but that he will fight & win. Also he tells me about a woman he's met & is starting to date (she, too, has cancer). Finally, he wraps up with not wanting to die before he can say 'goodbye' to people who have meant the most to him & I am on the top of the list??
What do I do with that???
YIKES!! This is weirddddddd. So he's dating someone new but he HAS to SEE you to say goodbye???? Can we say manipulation?
Bugs, you do see this for what it is don't you?
Too bad you can't block his email.
If he really does have cancer and is really that bad, I would think stalking you would be at the bottom of his list right now.
Again weirdddddddd.
What do I do with that???
YIKES!! This is weirddddddd.
I am with PM...YIKES!!
Sounds he's pulling on some 'guilt' strings.
How would YOU feel about politely declining request?
Hey Bugs,
The challenges you have now are nothing compared to what you have already been through and conquered. I know you will breeze right through these too.
Drac? What can I say. The real Drac has stood up and shown his true colors. I honestly think you will be better off in the long run, because I don't think he will ever "get it." Just like my brother. Will keep the cycle of M/D until he finds the perfect one. We know the perfect one will never come, but they just don't see it. UGH
V sounds a bit unstable. Cancer? Is this a new thing? He wants a pity party.
Hang in Bugs, and don't forget to let me know when you are in Columbus again....
I figured it was about time to Bug Bomb my own thread.
As you can see, I obviously couldn't sleep and was up at 4:30 a.m. today. I'm not sure what is up with that?! Oh well, it gave me time to catch up with a lot of you. I try to read everyday so I don't get too far behind with everyone, but I seldom have time to post.
It seems like so much has been going on in my life, but when it comes time to post it doesn't seem like much to talk about.
There's been a few text messages from V, but nothing for 4 whole days! I am hoping that has finally burned out. I 'hope' he's figured out that the pity party\manipulation technique does not work with me. I don't wish him ill, I just wish him to go away.
Drac has been Mr. Chatty Guy lately. CALLING me to talk vs emailing. It's really feeling weird. Monday he called 3x. He has to change his schedule with Ladybug next week due to work travel so he called to tell me. I simply said to confirm the dates/times and let me know. Period.
He called again later to confirm the dates/times,,,and then proceeded to ask me about the best travel options. Drive or fly, etc.
He called again later to switch some of the times. That turned into 15 minutes of talk about work. As some of you may know, our company is going through a major restructure. It's impacted many of my good friends/co-workers across the country, and includes some mutual friends/co-workers of mine & Drac's. And, as he remains in his position, it's impacting Drac as well.
He went on about various things and the call somehow disconnected after about 15 minutes. I figured no big deal and went on about my business. He called BACK. The work conversation continued, until he said, "Well, that is enough serious discussion. So what's up with you rooting for the Steelers for Super Bowl?"
WTF?
He then proceeded with an entire discussion about the game?! I finally was so weirded out that I told him I had another call & I had to go. Yesterday included several emails from him about work & Ladybug. Weird.
So, with all of that, I'm sure you all are sitting there wondering WHY in the world am I even talking to him?
Frankly, I've asked myself the same question.
The only answer I have is that I just can't seem to help myself.
It's not that I want him back. It's not that I want to be his friend (because even not wanting him back, he can still easily hurt me & I do NOT want to know about the revolving Ho Door activities).
A friend mentioned something to me the other day that I've been thinking about. There is a movie with Tom Cruise where he is a bartender (I know the name of the movice, but apparently it is now a CENSORED word here!) where she draws Tom Cruise back,,,,gets him to her house just so she can throw him out??? Maybe that's what I'm doing? I'm not sure, but I do know that doing that would be SWEEEEET! ha!
So, Drac aside, work is very depressing and stressful. Then yesterday I get a call that a VP of a different sales segment wants to talk to me about coming to work for him. I 'think' it's a good thing, so I am exploring the option. I don't know when I'll know more, but hopefully soon.
At the very least, I can take it to mean that even if my current position is getting eliminated, SOMEBODY in the company wants me to stay.
That reminds me,,,,,in an email yesterday, Drac asked me if I'd been approached about some of the 'pilots' that are happening around the company soon. I told him that I'd been approached about some different options.
He asked, "Local or abroad".
I replied, "Mixed Bag"
Let him put that in his pipe and smoke it. I will admit to rather enjoying making him 'wonder' a bit about MY life for a change!
So, good news (I think) on the work front so I can breathe a bit easier there. And things continue to go well with R. He is coming here for this weekend. The weather is supposed to be wonderful, so I'm trying to decide between a trip up the river road to watch the Bald Eagles OR a trip to some local wineries. Either way, I know it's going to be fun.
(((BugHug)))
Drac seems to get cozy like this in waves. I think he must be sensing something about V or R.
He sees the others sniffing around and wants to know whats going on. The kids have probabaly mentioned V or R to him and now he's picqued.
Personally I don't think he deserves your friendliness.
I'd like to see him with more consequences.....
Thanks for the update, Bugs!! You sound so great.
Weird stuff with Drac - there must be NoHo at the moment.
Take care, my friend, your personal recovery has been inspiring to "watch"
Fox
Hi Bugs,
So, with all of that, I'm sure you all are sitting there wondering WHY in the world am I even talking to him?
Frankly, I've asked myself the same question.
The only answer I have is that I just can't seem to help myself.
It's not that I want him back. It's not that I want to be his friend (because even not wanting him back, he can still easily hurt me & I do NOT want to know about the revolving Ho Door activities).
When I read this, Bugs, it seems to me you left it a bit too open-ended.... so, just wondering and, playing the devil's advocate, even though it may be short-lived knowing Drac's track record, are you saying that you still enjoy talking to Drac? ..still appreciate having his attention? Drac valuing your opinion?
...because if so, sounds like Drac is answering some 'need'....the only problem is...you can't count on Drac to be a 'stable' source!
...sorry if I am totally off the mark with this, Bugs.
Hey Bugs,
What's happening? You sure have been quiet lately.
I could use a little wisdom from you right now..
Hey everyone!
It's been pretty crazy lately with a lot of travel,,,both personal and work. I was with R over the weekend and am at the airport now returning home from business. The best part of this trip was also fitting in seeing R, too!
Nothing much really 'new'. Work is still a bit in turmoil, but I just keep doing what I do. The structure & changes will be whatever they will be. I have my 2008 review tomorrow. Am hoping for something decent for my year end bonus,,,,,,keep your fingers crossed for me!! Although it 'should' be a black & white decision based on the actual numbers, there is always a bit of back & forth and discretion done.
Ladybugs is good, as is DSS. Although we had an incident last week when I found out that Ladybugs found a totally inappropriate UNMARKED video tape in her closet at Drac's house and did watch it for a minute! YIKES!! It was all I could do not to come totally unglued at Drac! Of course he totally denies having that sort of thing at his house. What a load of crapola! I seriously doubt it magically appeared. I will say it is possible that it was something DSS had, but again - TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE for him, too!! UGH!!
Luna, you may be right in that I do get some need met by talking to Drac. I think that it's a boost to me to know that despite his actions he does value my opinion about some things. It makes me laugh when it happens now. But, I don't want it to be a regular thing as it would eventually drain me & hurt me. I don't need that!
He called me yesterday. He's misplaced his dad's prescription benefit card & thought perhaps he'd sent me the wrong one when he sent me a card for Ladybugs. It could have easily been an email question, but he called. He also wanted to let me know he's paid off our timeshare and needs me to sign a quit claim on it. I don't know what he expected, but I simply told him to have it drawn up and sent to me. I didn't ask any questions or open up the conversation at all. Stuck to the facts & ended the call. He sounded disappointed.
He's seeing the same Ho2 from our work. It really bugs me for some reason. I do wonder if it were someone NOT from our work if I'd feel any different? I tell myself it is because of us all working at the same place.
Ooops! I gotta run,,,time to board!
Ladybugs is good, as is DSS. Although we had an incident last week when I found out that Ladybugs found a totally inappropriate UNMARKED video tape in her closet at Drac's house and did watch it for a minute! YIKES!! It was all I could do not to come totally unglued at Drac! Of course he totally denies having that sort of thing at his house. What a load of crapola! I seriously doubt it magically appeared. I will say it is possible that it was something DSS had, but again - TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE for him, too!! UGH!!
Yikes is right. We try so hard to keep our little ones from being exposed to that smut but sometimes we just can't. What'd you tell her about it?
Your story reminded me of something that happened to my daughter BF when she was about 8. Seems her parents like to fool around with the video recorder. One day she comes bouncing in the living room where her dad was sitting and asked if they could watch a video together. He said sure, so she went to the cabinet and pulled one out.
She sits down on the couch and pushes the "play" button on the remote. You guessed it. It wasn't a children's video. She said her dad nearly knocked her backwards off the couch trying to get to the remote to turn it off before she could see more of mommy and daddy starring in their own video.
Hi Bugs,
You sound happy and I'm glad you popped in to give us a short update. I always love hearing how you are doing and coping. I think that the depth of love for our H is very similar and if so, I can imagine how hard the pain of all this has been on you.
Do you notice with your conversations with Drac that he is defogging at all or because he seems to be occupying his time with OW2 he is still running hard?
Oh MY Miss Meggy! What a story THAT was!!
I did talk to Ladybugs and let her lead the way as to what was 'necessary' to discuss and what wasn't. The truth is the thing she was MOST worried about was me telling Drac & that he would be mad.
We talked about what is appropriate & what is not for her,,,something that we do on a regular basis with lots of movies & tv programs. She KNOWS what is and isn't appropriate. She knows where I stand and does 'self' edit what she watches, which I am very glad of!
I had to tell her that Drac & I had to discuss it,,,,but I spent an inordinate amount of time making sure he wasn't going to come down on her in any way. It was one of the few times I felt it necessary to try to influence their realtionship/interaction. I did it for HER, not for HIM.
It's funny (and sad) that the other night she was lamenting not getting me anything for Christmas, my birthday or Valentine's Day. I kept assuring her that her homemade cards/gifts are better than anything, but she wasn't consoled. I offered to have my Mom help her,,,but she believes that it's not just from HER if that happens,,,and she doesn't want Grandma to 'remind' her about any holidays either. She said that she should remember and do it herself. I explained that at her age, EVERYONE needs help,,,,and I mentioned that even though I helped her & DSS with Drac's Christmas gift, that the gift was from THEM and that was made it special to him.
Her reply, "It's not the same. Because Mommy's are MORE special than ANYTHING!"
It was all I could do not to cry!
Queenie, I don't know if Drac is de-fogging or going back to being the person who was my H or not. I haven't let myself really think about it.
I can tell you this. He has not DONE anything to make me believe that is the case. And you know, as well as I do that it's ALL about the ACTIONS.
Although surprisingly this afternoon, he sent me a 'funny' email. He forwarded it, but erased who he got it from.
I don't get it. I don't care to try to 'get' it. It's not any action that matters at all to me.
Instead, I occupy my time with getting regular text messages & calls from R. I get one every morning when it's my usual wake up time and one every night. I get them throughout the day,,,,even if it's just a smiley face that let's me know he is thinking of me.
It's really nice.
I will admit to sometimes thinking about how it was very similar with Drac at the beginning of our relationship, too. Then, I catch myself. Is that I sign of still caring about Drac? Or is it just 'normal'. I don't know. I'm ok with thinking that it's just the way it is for me right now.
I gotta get off here,,,,Ladybugs has a friend over & I need to check up on them and make some dinner.
Am making beignets & chicory coffee for Mardi Gras breakfast in the morning. Muffalotta's(sp?) for lunch. Red beans & rice, shrimp creole & jambalya for dinner!! I can't wait!!
Have a great weekend everyone!
Bugsy!
Glad to see you back! Even better to find out WHY you were missing! Hope you had some fun!
Your tale about the tape and Ladybugs just makes me think: "GUYS! Just PUT it AWAY! Doesn't matter WHO the stars are, put it someplace that YOU HAe to look for it.... Sheesh."
You have had the disussion with Drac? And that was where you were trying to influence thier relationship? Personally, if you were Flamingo and I had left a tape out, it wouldn't have been a discussion, it would have been: "You stupid ###@@$%!!!" Not much discussion going on....
THAT is what you should make clear to Ladybugs. DRAC is the one who made the mistake. Ladybugs saw something that she shouldn't have, and Drac's lack of attention is what caused this error. Ladybugs is to be protected by her parents from things that she isn't supposed to see or do. You lock up the cleaning solutions or put them on the top shelf, so something stupid doesn't happen. THAT is Drac's failure. Not Ladybugs. And yes, you need to talk with Drac about it. So that he can clean up the rest of his place. And if it's DSS's stuff, then Drac needs to have some conversations with him.
Sorry that Ladybugs can't get "you" a present. I mean the little 8 year old wants to walk down to the "big store" and take care of it herself. That is really great. And you should have cried. What a great memory that will be for you.
I wanted to comment on this...
Instead, I occupy my time with getting regular text messages & calls from R. I get one every morning when it's my usual wake up time and one every night. I get them throughout the day,,,,even if it's just a smiley face that let's me know he is thinking of me.
It's really nice.
I will admit to sometimes thinking about how it was very similar with Drac at the beginning of our relationship, too. Then, I catch myself. Is that I sign of still caring about Drac? Or is it just 'normal'. I don't know. I'm ok with thinking that it's just the way it is for me right now.
No, its NOT A SIGN OF CARING ABOUT DRAC. Yeech. Its a sign that you have learned SO MUCH here at MB. That the early time in the relationship is so good. And HOW important it is that you CONTINUE those actions. And work with "R" to make sure that HE continues those actions after the relationship matures a little.
You have a Great weekend as well. Your menu sounds terriffic. I'll be having frozen Lean Cuisines.....Such is the life of the office bound accountant at this time of year....
LG
Hi LG!
Glad you came out the depths of the piles of papers for a break & a post!
Were you a fly on the wall during my conversations with Ladybugs and Drac? Because you hit the points that I did.
I stressed to Ladybugs that is IS about our job as her PARENTS to protect her. And yes, what happened was not HER fault, but Drac's because he did not properly protect her.
I told him the same thing,,,along with a few other choice things that basically boiled down to the fact that I don't care about anything but him protecting her by putting it away where she can't possibly ever get her hands on it!
I think you are right, too, about how nice things are in the beginning of a new relationship. How important those little thigs are to do,,,,and to KEEP on doing. R and I have talked about things like that. I've shared MB philosophy with him,,,but haven't moved to sharing HN/HN YET. I fully intend to if/when the time is right.
I asked him yesterday if he has always been such an attentive guy and told him how much it means to me that he lets me know he is thinking about me. I think we have BOTH decided that any relationships we have now are going to be different than those of our past,,,,because we have learned from our mistakes and we don't want to repeat them.
As we've often talked about here, it's the 'next' person in our lives that will benefit from all we have learned & tried to do in the attempt to save our marriges. It 'could' have been our WS's benefit, but they chose to walk away.
Their loss!
Looking out the window it is cold and a bit snowy. Glad we are staying home today!
Enjoy that Lean Cuisine for now,,,,then treat yourself to a wonderful night out on April 15!
Bugs,
Just dropping in to say hi and I have been lurking and keeping an eye on all my killerbees friends.
Wanted to just tell you I am so happy for you and your new relationship. You are doing marvolous (sp?)
Still
Ah the joys of parenting and the adventures that G-d puts in our lives to be good stewards of his children. You are just an amazing mom, ladybugs is lucky to have you. I wonder if you are smiling thinking you are lucky to have her. Well you are.
Double score.....
Hi Bugs,
I also enjoy reading your updates...
I hope one day I will be able to view WS as you do Drac....so that I can 'exchange' on things that need to be.
Thanks.
Hey Bugs,
Doing a few quick drive-bys tonight while chaibaby is swinging. Glad you are doing well. I too hope that I can get to the same point with my WH that you are at with Drac. I admire you.
Hello ladies!
Thanks for stopping by to say hi! I was thinking about what you said,,,how I'm able to deal with Drac 'as needed'. Yes, I'm getting better at it,,,and I was wondering to myself WHY & HOW has that happened.
Of course, the first reason is the mere passage of time (naturally). I realized the second reason yesterday. We've talked here for monthw & monthw, time & time again about what an idiot Drac is/can be at times. I think I finally REALLY see him that way! FINALLY.
It all came together yesterday beginning with a phone call from Drac in the early afternoon. I let Ladybugs answer, as I always do when I have the kids. Most of the time if it's something simple, I don't have to talk to him myself. Things like a pick up change, etc.
Well, he asked to talk to me. Seems he had a message on his phone (as he wasn't home all weekend). It was from friends of DSS. They said that DSS had been at his friend S's house, went on his computer, viewed porn sites, the computer crashed & DSS owes him a new one.
You regulars around here know that this is one of several incidents with DSS in this regard over the last year. Plus we just had the incident recently with Ladybugs getting her hands on some inappropriate material! I've tried several times to talk to Drac about it to get him to deal with it, but to no avail.
Well, there was no avoiding it for him this time. He had to go over to S's house and speak with S's parents about it. Drac explained all of what happened to me.
DSS uses my computer here, but I always check every site he visits. DSS knows this and hadn't violated it. I had just checked early yesterday morning but while on the phone with Drac I checked again & found inappropriate stuff. I told Drac what I found, so he then says, "I think I should come over and we BOTH sit down and talk to DSS."
Now, you also know that Drac has NEVER been in my home. He's not invited. I tried to turn it around to have the talk at Drac's house, but it ended up that I agreed to do it here as he could then see what was on my computer as well.
Drac came in looking a bit nervous. I was totally calm. Of course, I don't have to mention that my house was perfect & I was in appropriate Goddess form! haha!
So, we sat down & talked to DSS. Of course, he didn't want to say what it was he'd done. We insisted upon it. I was very calm and spoke softly in a soothing tone. Drac was impatient & started to get angry. I am totally embarassed to say that Drac stood up at one point & took off his belt,,,threatening to spank DSS with it. He's done it before. I told himm " NO!! Don't do that!!" I was prepared to get in between them if I'd had to.
Luckily, Drac backed down. He also calmed down. Frankly, it was strange that Drac looked to me for the most part to lead the entire conversation,,,,speaking only when I looked to him. I'd give him a nod to encourage him to talk,,otherwise he let me do the talking. I think it helped him as much as it helped DSS get through it.
So, we did get most of the story out of DSS. DSS told us that he knows it's wrong, but he "can't help himself." He wanted to claim that he is addicted to it,,,that as long as he doesn't have access to it, then it's ok.
Eventually, I had DSS go to his room so that Drac & I could talk.
Lordy, it would take pages to share everything Drac told me. I'll shorten it down to say that Drac & DSS have issues that need to be dealt with. He has issues with DSS to a point that doesn't happen with me & DSS. I told him that the issues he is having don't happen that way when DSS is with me. DSS is disrespectful and lazy. He has very compulsive habits at Drac's and is actions are often very unhealthy. It's hard to explain here, but I am VERY concerned.
Drac also has concerns with another friend that DSS & S both seem to 'worship',,,,,and that it's as if DSS is 'infatuated' with this boy. I told him flat out that if he suspects things like what he said he suspects, we have to get DSS into counseling right NOW!! Thank God, he agreed.
Drac also shared that when DSS goes home to him after weekends with me, he gives Drac the impression that he is miserable here. Drac admitted that it sounds like DSS is 'playing' him on that. I told him that he most certainly is, as he definitely enjoys himself while we are together. Sure, we have our 'moments', as I am his parent.... I discipline him, I make him do things he doesn't want to,,,but it doesn't ruin our time together. I further explained that Drac should understand that DSS most likely does that so as to not upset Drac. He doesn't want Drac to believe he is being disloyal to him by telling him what a good time he has with me. DSS DOES talk to me about things, but I don't have enough face to face interaction with him.
I also explained to Drac that DSS is LONELY. He needs interaction wit other kids and with DRAC! He spends too much time alone. Drac's reply is that DSS doesn't want to do ANYTHING. He doesn't even spend time with or want to spend time with DRAC. He basically had a "I have no idea what to do" response.
Drac even said at one point, "I can't believe he's already at the point where he can't talk to us.".
I wanted to say so badly that it's as much as about US, how we handle it as it is about THEM,,,,but he'd take that as a DJ. I also wanted to scream at Drac that you have to be HOME & spend time with him for him to be able to talk to YOU!!
So, I explained that DSS needs someone to talk to, and that 'we' could use help in understanding & dealing with DSS. Frankly, what I really hope for is that DRAC gets the help HE needs to be a better parent!! HE needs someone to explain to him that DSS MUST come FIRST and everything else second. Drac won't hear it if I try to tell him that,,,,,,,,,,,I've tried in the past but all Drac hears is a DJ from me about his life. So, this time I didn't bother.
Bottomline, it was agreed that DSS and 'we' would get into counseling. DSS will have input on the who/what/when/where/how of it all, too. It's not a punishment, but a way to help him understand why he does things and to help him with getting better tools for dealing with things. I explained that we ALL need help from time to time.
I also told DSS, that I wanted to bring up something while the 3 of us were together. I told him that I understood that Drac was of the impression after DSS goes home from his weekends with me that DSS is very unhappy with being here. DSS looked shocked & scared (again).
I told DSS, we don't have to discuss it right now. However, it does hurt me very much to hear that, as I believe we have a great time, a good relationship. IF DSS doesn't enjoy being with me or he doesn't want to be with me, then he needs to tell me.
I will give Drac a bit of credit. He did step in and add that we set things up for him to be with me for DSS's sake,,,that I've been 'more of a Mom to you than anyone'. And that it wouldn't upset him to know that DSS enjoys being with me. It's ok with him & it's what Drac wants.
So, I had DSS go to his room to get his things. I immediately called Ladybugs up from her room & told her to spend time with her Daddy before he had to leave. I exited the room. I went to DSS's room to give him a hug & tell him that I love him.
DSS finally was ready to leave. I went back to the room as the left. Got another hug from DSS. Drac turned to look at me as they left and said "Thank you". I replied with a "see ya'.
I have to run for now, but there's a small tidbit of follow up to this that I'll have to share later.
Quickly to wrap this up. I looked at Drac & didn't see my H. I didn't see or hear a man that I have the desire to spend the rest of my life with. I saw someone who is clueless as to how to run his life for the best benefit of his children,,,,and when things get beyond his ability to deal with them, he runs to the person he hurt worst in this world for help,,,me.
So many of the things that he listed as "wrong" with me when he left are the VERY reasons he was sitting in my living room yesterday needing my help.
Ironic.
And yet, he remains clueless to those facts. At least I 'think' he is clueless about them.
More later!!
Hi Bugs
When my YS was about DSS's age, he was at a friend's house who showed him an inappropriate website. YS told me about it and asked if I would get some filtering software so he wouldn't be tempted to look at it or others "because it would be too easy."
I use Besafe online. I can open up blocked sites if I want to and also have a weekly report sent to me on all internet activity.
It costs about $50 a year.
YS is nearly 17 and yes, he still has that same honorable streak in him.
Hope this helps
I also use B-safe. It works great. Another great feature is that it blocks ads on websites as well. I can go to ESPN and not see the Hooters ad. You can set it up so that anytime he goes to a blocked site you get an email. The program loads on the individual PC and needs a password to turn it off.
http://www.bsafehome.com/
Thanks for that tip! I have also checked out a program/monitoring program my pastor recommended. I'll be installing one of them this week!!
Typically, as expected, nothing yesterday from Drac to follow up on what he said he was going to do for DSS! UGH!
As usual, he swoops in for my 'help' then leaves me hanging as to any follow up or sharing of information from there. Guess he didn't have 'time' yesterday? He certainly only had about 2 minutes to talk to Ladybugs last night because he was "at dinner" at 8 pm!
Perfect! Your son is having issues, so the first night after that you leave him alone after school until 9 pm or later?! Nice, really nice!
He sent me paperwork to quit claim our vacation timeshare. He told me last week that he'd paid it off & needed me to sign to finish it up. What he forwarded me to sign was NOT showing it as paid off. So,,,,,,,,,,,I emailed back & asked him to provide the documentation to show me it was paid off.
His reply? "Oh, I wasn't able to pay it off, so I 'traded' properties. I had to sign the same paperwork as you are".
Hello??? There is a heck of a lot of difference between paid off and UPGRADED!! I have to look at it closer today. I don't care about any of it, except that my name is REMOVED and that I have no more financial obligation.
Typical wayward interpretation of the 'truth', isn't it?
I took the kids to a movie on Sat. and we didn't get out until after their 'usual' time to call Drac. I had them call as soon as we came out. Drac had left a vm, but I didn't listen to it until last night when another message had come in. He left a message for the kids, but then added nasty comments at the end for me, basically accusing me of keeping them from calling him!
WTF?
I was mad!
So I sent him an email & told him that kind of thing was unnecessary and I spelled it all out for him. GRRR!! He is SO lucky I didn't listen to it on Saturday. How dare he leave that kind of message and then call me less than 24 hours later for my help!
He did reply last night and say he was sorry. Of course, it was because of 'his aggravation' of not getting to talk to the kids 2 nights in a row.
Like Foxx's ExWs forgetting about the financial bind he put her & the DD's in,,,,Drac conveniently forgets the days/nights he kept me from talking to the kids because they were with the HO! UGH!!!
It did feel good to lay it back on him & not really care if he didn't like it or not. I think that is an improvement on my part! I don't really care his 'reason', I don't have to take any crap from him EVER.
Well, time to shower and start a new day,,,,,,,,,,,,,lots to do at work. I have to take a last minute trip Thursday/Friday to talk to some folks at work about a new position!!! It sounds like it might be a great opportunity for me!
As I am waiting for some work to be done on my work computer, I have time for a quick post of things I missed previously.
I looked at the paperwork Drac sent,,,I'm not comfortable with signing it so I forwarded it to my attorney to review before I sign. We STILL have a case pending in the court of appeals,,,where Drac has taken me back over another piece of property that we owned & I was awarded in the D. I sold it and now he thinks he is entitled to 1/2.
I'll be darned if I'm signing something to give away my rights to this piece of property to help him out without my attorney's OK!! He's pushing to get this done before the end of the month,,,,as it's on some kind of 'special'. Well, it just might not happen. Too bad.
I'm not sure if I'm going to tell him that my attorney has to review it first or not. Anyone care to share their thought on that?
The thing is, if I don't get the ok before end of business tomorrow, it's not going to get done because I will be out of town until Friday night. I'll be darned if I'm going to spend my Saturday running around getting notarized signatures for his benefit.
Is that mean?
What I had wanted to post yesterday, but didn't have time to was about what Ladybug had to say after Drac was here Sunday.
I told her a few minutes before he arrived that he was coming over to get DDS early. I also told her that he'd be coming in the house because I needed to talk to him, but he wasn't here to tour the house or see her room. She was VERY good about it.
She asked what we needed to talk about. I told her it wasn't anything bad, we just needed to talk with DSS. She asked if I was mad at Drac. I said no. She asked if Drac was mad at me. Again, I told her no.
She was a very good girl while we were having our talk. She played in her room like I asked her to the entire time. After Drac & I finished, I told her to come up and visit with him for a minute before he had to leave.
After he left she asked again what we were talking about. I told her again that we just needed to talk to DSS. She then said, "Well, Mommy, I was EXCITED that Daddy was coming in and you were talking. I thought, "Mommy likes Daddy. Daddy likes Mommy. And that you are getting back together again."
Yet again, my heart broke for her when I had to gently tell her that no, that is not the case. We just had something to discuss, that's all, but it wasn't about us getting back together. We are not.
She said, "Well, when I call you, Daddy always asks me how you are doing!"
I explained to her that he asks that for HER benefit and he's just being polite. Of course, she disagreed with me. I didn't argue with her about it.
I know that she will always harbor some hope, deep inside, that we will get back together. I just try to be gentle, yet firm & consistant with her so that she isn't getting any of the wrong signals or impressions from me.
Waywards suck!
Bugsy:
Wow. Just wow.
Can you see where Ladybugs went when she heard that "Daddy" was coming over?
The perception that the children have is always SO Different from what the reality is, sometimes.
Sorry you had to blow up her bubble. (((Ladybugs)))
Drac's response to your meeting about DSS is typical. "Bugsy, you handle it" because he went back to Dracmode.
That is SO WRONG to DSS.
I hope your new business opportunity works out.
LG
Wow, Bugsy! They are so typical of waywards, aren't they?
I'm so sorry for Ladybugs....but you handled it just perfectly. It is heartbreaking as a parent (a GOOD parent) to watch their hope ebb and flow.
You are an excellant mother to DSS and Ladybugs - even a fogged out Drac can't deny that. Forget Drac - DSS needs you. I am so proud of you for continuing to be his true mom.
I hope everything on the job front goes well for you. These can be challenging times, but opportunity is often born that way.
R sounds wonderful. Enjoy him.
Fox
As expected, still no word from Drac about anything further for DSS.
With the above exception, yesterday turned out to be a great day.
I emailed my A with the paperwork Drac sent me to sign. As expected, she advised not to sign it. My instinct was right, as it does not specifically state that I would no longer be financially liable,,,only that I give up any equity and interest.
Unless he gets me new & attorney approved paperwork today, this isnt' going to happen by his month end deadline. I leave tomorrow for my business/interview trip and won't be back until after business hours on Friday. Too bad - so sad! NOT!
I did send him an email yesterday morning that said
"Drac, Due to your still pending court case against me, I've forwarded these to my attorney to review to be sure they do not create an issue with that case. Once she confirms there is no issue with that & that there are no issues with these documents, I will sign and return to you."
No reply from him. My A is contacting his A. I don't know if he is aware of the situation ,,,,,yet.
But here is the best news!!
Yep!
I don't know if he know this yet either. If he does know both things, I'm thinking it was not such a great day for Drac.
The only downside to this is that as they chose not to argue this in the courtroom (they filed on briefs only), I was not allowed to raise the issue of attorney's fees. That kinda made me mad,,,,but I'm not going to complain about it much. I'm just thankful this is FINALLY over and it came out to my good!
Yes, it may take time, but justice CAN come in a small way sometimes!!
Congrats on your victory!
Its always nice when good triumphs over evil!
Bugs, you are doing great. I'd just like to see you hand over more garbage to him. When he tries to portray himself as "dad of the year" why don't you ever question him about all his dinners out? Or just offer to have DSS at your house in the evenings so homework and activities can be supervised.
I'd say the interest in porn is pretty normal for a boy that age. And for a boy that age that is accustomed to being unsupervised, I'm sure he didn't think twice about getting busted by his friends parents. I suspect he gets away with it at Drac's house. So the next step is to get away with it elsewhere.
There are far more lessons for Drac to learn on parenting. Its a damn shame that DSS is the test case.
Hooray for you, Bugs!
You are one smart lady. Thank you for all you have done for me.
Fox
Hi Bugs,
Thanks for sharing your ups and downs in dealing with...LIFE!
I am also slowly having more contact with WS....directly and indirectly...so, I am having a lot of occasions to BREATHE deeply, at least that's how I approach it...so, that's a good thing, right?
Waywards!
Wow, Bugs, you are dealing with a lot here lately and doing a fabulous job I have to say!
I am trying to keep my head up and shoulders back myself!
Phenomenal job!
Lexxy,,,,good to see you around a bit again! Thanks for stopping by! You, too, Rin!!
Thanks Luna, Foxx, too!
I was outta town on business the last 2 days, so am trying to catch up with everyone this morning. I had PLANNED on sleeping in, and as you can tell from the time of my posts today, THAT didn't work out so well!
I'm glad to have the time to spend here with the Amigos! Ladybugs is at a friend's house and DSS will be doing his usual sleeping in so I'm not really pressed for time.
I did get numerous calls & emails the last 2 days from the property company and a couple from my A,,,,seems Drac & the property folks were EXTREMELY anxious for me to sign this paperwork for them before the end of today. I didn't really give it 2 thoughts, as I was busy with a 4 hour 'interview' yesterday.
I finally started looking at things when I got to the airport. My A had emailed me saying she'd gotten several calls & emails asking what I planned to do. It made me chuckle. In the not too distant past,, it would have caused me STRESS! I'm not sure WHY the change, but I was thankful for it. Foxx,,,,I think this is part of that feeling to DO something, to FIX something, to take care of THINGS for them - - - which has finally started to pass for me!!
So,,,I had decided that if it were CONVENIENT for ME, I'd take care of the paperwork for Drac today. It turns out that it was the perfect decision. They are sending a notary to my house later this morning to take care of it all. Nothing for me to do but sign. Gotta love that!
Of course, ALL of this communication came via 3rd parties. I have a feeling Drac is now aware of his court loss & is likely not of the mood or ability to ask me NICELY for a favor! ha! This will actually be good for me, as when it is complete, the last of our 'financial' bond will be broken once and for all.
Did I mention that I'd emailed Drac Wed asking for an update on the counseling for DSS? His reply was that he'd contacted the dept at work that helps arrange this stuff (6 free sessions) and that there were over 50 providers in his town. They were to narrow the list down to 15 and get back to him.
He actually said that his plans was to "contact you, Bugs, and discuss the options".
Ok,,, who here BELIEVES that? One part of me says NO WAY. Another part says, yes it's probably true,,,,,because apparently this is something for BUGS to take care of for him.
Either way, it's not surprising that I've received all kinds of communication about the property paperwork, but NO update about DSS. :twobyfour:
I called DSS from the airport to let him know I was on the way to pick him up. He was very anxious to talk to me. He talked a lot on the phone and then asked if I was getting him first before picking up Ladybugs,,,because he had something he wanted to talk about. I told him we'd have time alone.
He wanted to talk to me about some extreme anger he'd been experiencing this week. I was so PROUD of him. He's had some challenges with anger in the past, but never wanted to really talk about it. He did a great deal of the talking and it went really well. I told him how proud I am of him in sharing this,,, I encouraged him about counseling,,I shared my PERSONAL experience/pain/success with counseling,,,and ended with letting him know how much I think he has started to mature.
It also made me even MORE keenly aware of his loneliness,,,and of his need for ME in his life. It made me sad, as this obviously wasn't a conversation he felt he could have with Drac. And we are stuck with the Clueless, Selfish Drac.
I've considered how to share this with Drac,,,,,,,,,,,but haven't come to any conclusion of IF or HOW to do it.
Anyone's thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated!
Well, it's about shower time. I have papers to sign. Then I'm taking the kids to see Drac's Aunt who is in the nursing home. She called me 2x this week and is very excited that we are coming. She even asked ME to bring her some things! So much for Drac's thought that I am no longer 'family'! ha!
Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Anyone's thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated!
Could you talk to your "waste management" connections and have Drac rubbed out? Or severely beaten, perhaps? A couple of months in traction, or maybe a coma?
Seriously, how much does dealing with this moron take out of you, Bugs? You sound fabulous, but I have to wonder whether there's a big cost associated with it.
Just as waywards suck, dealing with waywards sucks the life out of you. I don't know what the answer is, of course. Just commiserating.
Hi Bugs,
And we are stuck with the Clueless, Selfish Drac.
I've considered how to share this with Drac,,,,,,,,,,,but haven't come to any conclusion of IF or HOW to do it.
Unfortunately, they are clueless and it's because they are clueless that they are so selfish.
Is it something that HAS to be shared with Drac or could you just keep checking in with DS and maybe help DS learn to speak to his dad about said things.
I'm wondering if that just wouldn't be the healthiest for him to learn how to talk on difficult subjects with people that he has a hard time with. Of course it wouldn't be happening tomorrow, but then having you in his life gives him the opportunity to role model or role play how to talk to his dad.
Just a thought....
SDGUY!!!
I was very happy to see some posts from you, as I've been wondering how YOU are doing?!?
Could you talk to your "waste management" connections and have Drac rubbed out? Or severely beaten, perhaps? A couple of months in traction, or maybe a coma?
It's SO funny that you say this. Back when the truth about what Drac was doing came out, some of my 'guys' came to me and offered the services of the "Trash Mafia" to "take care of" my "problem" for me!
Maybe I should have given it more consideration!
Seriously, I haven't been thinking that this interaction was much of a big deal. I haven't been thinking a whole lot about Drac, and not even having any dreams about it as I have in the past.
Yet, I HAVE had severe problems in my right shoulder and neck. I was at the chiropractor last night & we were talking about my emotional well being. It got me to wondering if perhaps this
has effected me more than I realized?
Yet, when you add up the 'super secret' job interview and things at work, along with the fact that it's 2 weeks since I've seen R, those things alone could account for the physical aspects of my tension?!???
Queenie, those are the questions I've been asking myself. In fact, it's kind of the routine I've done in my head since all of this started, but especially when I was in a strict Plan B.
For now, I'm not going to mention it to Drac. I think I'll discuss with DSS,,,,,,both about the continued subject at hand, but also on the issue of to share or not to share with Drac. DSS would be the one to reap whatever Drac says/does as a result of having this information, and he's getting to the age where he should have more input on what/how much is shared with Drac.
Well, hopefully the tension will be easing up now. I was offered the new job 'on the spot' last Friday and I have accepted. Now, of course, I will be doing BOTH my 'old' and 'new' job at the same time for a while,,,,,,but I'm trying to look at that as a fun, new challenge.
Seriously, the new job WILL be a challenge, and I think it's something that I NEED right now in my life. Time for something new. I've been doing the 'same thing' more or less for almost 5 years and have been feeling in a rut.
Even better, I'm headed to see R on Friday. I know we both are ready for that!
Ladybug was sick all weekend & a trip to the dr yesterday morning told us she has strep throat. She is home again today. I hope she can go back tomorrow, but that's up to Drac to handle. I'm letting him have her tonight to 'make up' for a night that he missed a couple of weeks ago.
I emailed Drac about it. His reply included a comment about how he was "on the phone with X about DSS,,,,this is my 4th call". Yea, whatever.
I have a 'meeting' tonight. I am on the board for a pretty big MS Fund Raising event. A friend of mine is organizing it. My mom has MS, so this is very personal for me and something I've never done. I don't have a lot of 'friends' who have the kind of money to burn that we are talking about for this event, but I am meeting a whole new group of people and it's been good so far.
Tomorrow is a quick day trip for work. Busy Busy Busy.
offered the services of the "Trash Mafia" to "take care of" my "problem" for me!
Can I have those services rendered down here?
just think I wouldn't have to be concerned with CS, I would get Social security!
So, happy that you are getting to see "R"...can I ask how often it is that you guys talk? I ask because I'm trying to be okay with the slower process of an R...not one where you talk everyday, all day long, etc...
Rin,
I'm sure I could find you some 'connections' down your way!
You know, you can ask me any old thing you like. I might choose not to answer, but you can always ASK! ha!
Seriously, we do talk everyday,,,,but not 'all day'. He always sends me a text message to say Good Morning. Normally, one or the other of us 'might' send a text or 2 during the day. We usually don't talk on the phone during work hours. We are both pretty dedicated to our jobs (can't you tell since I'm posting during work! LOL!). Seriously, I think it's just that we respect each other's work ethic & try to keep personal stuff for personal time as much as possible.
During the evening we'll talk on the phone. It isn't always a long talk & a lot depends on what each of us have going on at the time.
I always get a text saying "good night".
I think there is no right or wrong when it comes to communication and what 'taking it slow' means. It's different for everyone. It's about what you are comfortable with, what works for you, and what keeps your boundaries where they need to be at any given point. This is in constant flux as the relationship develops, don't ya think?
Speaking of taking it slow,,, he just asked me to come spend Easter Break with him, as Ladybug will be with her Dad for the week. I'm 'thinking' about it.
Well, hopefully the tension will be easing up now. I was offered the new job 'on the spot' last Friday and I have accepted. Now, of course, I will be doing BOTH my 'old' and 'new' job at the same time for a while,,,,,,but I'm trying to look at that as a fun, new challenge.
Seriously, the new job WILL be a challenge, and I think it's something that I NEED right now in my life. Time for something new. I've been doing the 'same thing' more or less for almost 5 years and have been feeling in a rut.
Congratulations, Bugsy! I think it's a good time for a new challenge. The rut sounds very familiar and why I'm not that bummed about being laid off.
My guess is that the contact with Drac is draining you. Wayward spouses (or WXS's) are disgusting, hurtful creatures to be avoided wherever possible. It's just their nature, and Drac is still as wayward-thinking as ever.
I'm doing pretty well, all things considered. I'll dig out my thread and post an update when I get around to it.
Hi Bugs,
A drive-by to say hi. Enjoy your updates. I think you are doing just great.
I've considered how to share this with Drac,,,,,,,,,,,but haven't come to any conclusion of IF or HOW to do it.
Anyone's thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated!
I am a little late on this...but yes, as Queenie suggests, I would work with DSS on help him learn how to express and communicate his needs to his Dad, and it will help him in general to learn on how to have 'difficult conversations' :RollieEyes:... maybe help in 'coaching' him on how he could do it?
..and because I think SD is right. It's better for you to minimize contact with Drac... wayward thinking in general is very draining.
Lots of things happening in your life. Congratulations on your new position...and it seems that things are moving along with R.
Thank you for answering! LOL...I do appreciate that...just that part of me trying to figure out what's the "norm" and part of a healthy R...
I know that rushing things will get you nowhere except heartache and in alot of trouble! I'm working so hard on doing something different than I have been taught in life.
At the beginning of college, I jumped into my first long term R, which ended in him going back to his old GF. Well, I know POWS that entire year, when I came back from the summer, I started seeing him and moved in a month after we were dating. Here we are 16 years later and I have learned so much! Changed so much but we were by each others side from that day forward.
Hindsight tells me that had I done things different and not jumped so fast I may have been able to clearly see somethings in a different light. Now, I'm not going to waste my time regretting what I did do, but only use it to my advantage to do things different.
This guy that I like I don't talk to everyday and it's very different than what I think was the norm...you know given that the WS and OP talked so much during the A. I remember the cell phones records being littered with calls and Txts.
So it seems to me that what I am experiencing right now, is normal for a healthy R...it was actually frustrating to me last week and I was at the point of giving up when he contacts me and invited me to dinner...
I really don't have alot of experience to refer back too.
Hey all!
I did decide to just continue to work directly with DSS, continue to encourage him to talk to Drac, etc. Part of this was because I have such small expectations of getting any positive reaction or action out of Drac by sharing,,,,,,,,,,,,and the fact that I haven't discussed talking to Drac with DSS. He & I would need to discuss first before I'd go to Drac. Still no details from Drac about DSS's counseling. Last thing he said was that he'd called them 4 times. WHATEVER.
Frankly, he's pretty useless in the 'dad' department as far as I am concerned. Ladybugs ended up sick all last weekend - Monday Dr visit confirmed strep throat. I know that of the 2 nights she had with Drac this week, she missed atleast 2 doses of meds. She goes to bed 30 minutes too late, and this morning she didn't get any breakfast.
Oh, let's not forget that he was too busy to accept her phone call tonight,,,,,,,,,and never bothered to call her back.
Yet,,,,,,,,,,heaven forbid the kids not call HIM - - that results in immediate nasty emails and/or voice mails to me accusing me of somehow 'keeping' the kids from calling him,,,or even calling ALL his numbers. PUH-LEASE!
So, we just go about our merry way over at Bugs House. And the kids are better for every moment they have here. Unlike the Drac house weekends,,,,where yet AGAIN they are being shipped off for atleast 1 of the 2 nights that he is supposed to be with them.
Since the day he left, ONE time I have left them with a sitter for a few hours,,,,, and never for a full overnight. Interesting that *I* can manage my personal life around putting the kids FIRST.
Ok,,,Rant Over for Now.
On a more positive note, I have a HUGE deal pending at work. Lots of excitement and work to be done, but if successful, I will exceed my new growth budget by a very large amount!! Keeping my fingers crossed on that one!
On a better note, I am going to see R for the weekend. It's been almost 3 weeks since we've seen each other. I can't wait!
Gotta go pack.
Have a great weekend Amigos!
Hey Bugs,
You sound so strong. I'm so glad R is off on the horizon to see. Have a wonderful time.
Waywards, they are just simply stoopid, selfish and dumb.
How's ladybugs doing?
In Judaism, we don't cross our fingers, we pray from my mouth to G-ds ears.. May your job bring you success. When will you know?
What the plans for the weekend with R?
Hi Bugs,
I think you are doing great in 'diffusing' issues with Drac...HERE...as us amigos know EXACTLY what you are talking about! ...and can...relate!
Keep up the good work.
...and I am glad you are getting a chance to see R, and hope you have a great time.
Bugs:
Good luck with the contract, and the weekend with R.
Do whats RIGHT for DSS. Sometimes, kids can be a "little" messed up, and then they mature and things work out, and life goes on.
Sometimes, they are in a little bit more difficult position.
DSS is. You have opened a lifeline for him. He has to be "tough" with guys and Dad. He can be gentle with you. That's important.
So do whats RIGHT for DSS. Drac may or may not notice. May actually interfere, because in makes him look bad. Whatever. The fight is worth fighting, and in many cases, all that is really required in that your paying attention to DSS.
Will it take Drac off the "hook" for his responsibilities? Certainly. But DSS needs your help MORE than you proving that yes, ONCE again, DSS is being poorly served by Drac.
Have fun this weekend!
LG
Hey, LG.
I'm right there with you on the fact that I am going to do what I believe to be right for DSS. Nothing less. Drac will do (or not do) whatever,,,,,,,,,,and we can all guess which that will be.
Another Drac weekend during which he dumped the kids off for an overnight so he could run with Ho2. He took Ho2 with him to his mommy's to pick them up,,,,,,,,,,,but dumped her off before going to see his Aunt. Ladybug said that was because "Aunt B doesn't like her or Ho1. She love you Mommy".
It's so strange the lengths he goes to in order to keep up his 'image' of the great father.
Ladybug started in with me again last night about us getting back together. Early in the evening after she got home, she asked a question about if I missed 'the old days'. Then, after her shower she said that there was something she wanted to talk to me about,,,downstairs. So, we went downstairs. She instructed me to sit by her on the couch. I knew it was 'serious',,,,because she was acting just like ME when I want to have a 'talk' with HER!
She again commented on how Drac asks her how I am doing,,,,and that she thinks he still loves me. We again talked about how it is merely Drac being polite for her sake. We talked about how things are different now and won't ever be the same,,and that it's ok even if it's not the way she'd like it to be. She understands that Daddy is seeing Ho2 now. She told me she is 'mad at him'.
Seems he told her sometime recently that she wouldn't be seeing Ho2 around much,,,,,,,,,but with what happened this weekend, she knows that "He LIED. He lies to me a LOT."
:twobyfour:
Pretty sad when your lies are obvious to even an 8 year old, but yet you persist in trying to make everyone believe the lies!
I try very hard not to comment about the 'lies'. I won't try to cover up or smooth those things out for him. That's his to handle,,,although she'll never tell him that she's figured him out. Yet, neither do I 'agree' or comment in any way to confirm that he IS a liar. Again, that is not my place.
Enough Drac talk.
I had a great weekend, although too short as always. I met some funny folks on the plane,,,,,a bunch of guys were going to see the "Ultimate Cage Fights". I talked to several of them & a couple of them were potential business contacts with whom I traded business cards. That's not unusual for me,,,as you never know when your next potential sales contact will come from.
Turns out, one of them was a 'mistake'. I got an email from him when we landed & it was a bit 'creeepy/stalker like'. I high tailed it off the plane & ducked into the ladies room to avoid seeing him. R was to be picking me up so I sent him a text asking how soon he could 'rescue me from the cage fighters"
I also forwarded him the creepy email. He was NOT happy. We had to have a minor 'talk' about how it's normal for me to trade business cards when I travel,,,,,that it's about making contacts when you are in sales. He didn't go overboard, but it was apparent that he was feeling rather protective.
Things are progressing well with us. He commented about how it seems like we've 'been together' a long time - - when we were grocery shopping on Saturday. He meant that it is very comfortable doing 'normal' stuff. We went to his house & cooked. For me,,,being comfortable in the kitchen together is important. It was really fun. He's a good cook.
He has invited me & the kids to join him & his son in Florida this July. He has a week booked at a 5 bedroom house (free perk thru his work). So, we talked a bit about when/where/how to progress to his meeting the kids FIRST. Nothing is set yet,,,,,,,,,still have things to consider & talk about. But we are talking about it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have a few butterflies just writing about it. I have all of the concerns that you all can well imagine in that regard. Don't yet know how to describe it or what I'm going to do.
For now, I need to get showered for work.
Hope everyone had a great weekend!
Then, after her shower she said that there was something she wanted to talk to me about,,,downstairs. So, we went downstairs. She instructed me to sit by her on the couch. I knew it was 'serious',,,,because she was acting just like ME when I want to have a 'talk' with HER!
That's so cute, Bugs. I can totally picture it.
I don't think the kids will ever stop wanting their parents to be together. At least on some level. I don't know what the best way to talk with them about it is, but I'm confident you'll do the right thing when called upon.
Have a great week.
I can picture that too! Too cute!
Sounds like Ladybug is a bit of a romantic and I agree with SD...I think that they will always want that on some level...I can remember wanting the same of my parents and I was 3 when they D, but I outgrew that...
I think with the boys that YS wants the same, but OS doesn't...OS has seen to much...and has even admitted that he DOES NOT want us back together...stating his reasons being that he likes going different places every weekend...
I think that girls are brought up with fairy tales stories and we want what we read about...everything has a happy ending...it's hard to deal with somethings don't...becasue that's what we are taught!
When POWS and I got together, I remember thinking that he was my KNight and Shining Armor...that in itself should ahve been my red flag! LOL
Didn't stop me from wanting what I wanted...which wasn't a D...figured if my mom could survive everything that she had in her M, then I could too...fairy tales!
Oh, WOW, you went grocery shopping too this weekend...I DID too with "JA"...and had a dinner date with "JC"...I liked the shopping and gym better than the dinner and a movie!
Sweet, I have to run, have a students in my office and can't complete my thoughts!
Just curious Bugs -- but don't you have first right of refusal in your custody stuff?
Meaning that if you are going to be absent for longer than X (mine says 3 hours) that the other PARENT must be the first one asked to care for the kiddos?
I think it would be pretty funny if Drac had to ASK you everytime he wanted to play shack-up on the weekends...
Bugsy, are you out there?
So Bugs, It's almost been a month without you. Where are you? How are you?
I miss you Pres!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hello all!!
I didn't realize it's been so long since I last posted. I come by from time to time to read up on everyone's threads, but haven't really had the time or inclination to post.
I'm doing well. Work is very busy and my travel schedule has continued to ramp up a lot,,,,with no end in sight for a couple of months. That's both good & bad, I suppose. Good to have the work, bad to be away from home, struggle with Ladybug's schedule, etc.
Am continuing to see R. We are well enough into the relationship where we are now figuring out what I consider 'real life' stuff. A couple of weeks ago we had our first question about 'Do we want to keep this going?'.
It was interesting - - finding more out about how each of us communicates (or doesn't communicate) on certain subjects or feelings. I think we are coming into an important phase of our relationship. Because of what I've learned thru my divorce and from being here, I realize that how we handle these situations now is an indication of how it will be in the future. That is not something I gave any specific thought to previously. Now, it's very important to me.
It's funny how I view myself and this relationship differently than any I've had before. I now am much much more vocal about what I think and how I feel. If R does something that I don't like or I'm not 100% enthusiastic about, I let him know right then and there. The old Bugs would have said nothing. I would have written it off as not too important or I would have just put it aside in the 'hope' that the 'right' opportunity would come up to talk about it (which it never did because I never
made it come up).
I've always allowed myself to be viewed as the 'strong/independent' woman. And I AM a strong and independent woman. I am ALSO sensitive and vunerable. Those are NOT things that I have done well sharing and exposing in my past relationships. I'm no longer afraid to do that. I no longer hold back in telling R when he has done something that hurts my feelings. I no longer hold back when I feel like he turns conversations around to being about him when I am in the middle of trying to share something important. I realize he does that without realizing it, but unlike the past, I now speak up and point out that I need some 'it's all about Bugs time', too!
It's not as if there are HUGE issues. It's just that I now recognize the small things and how they can become HUGE things if I am not Open and Honest about each and every one.
Well now that that bit of relationship analysis is finished,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll just add a quick note that Ladybugs & DSS are doing well. Drac has yet to confirm making any kind of counseling appointment for DSS. It took him over a month to send me a list of the counselors in our area, so I'm not holding my breath waiting for the appt to be made!
I will give him credit for taking a week of vacation while he has both of the kids for their spring break. How much time he spends with them doing what they want to do remains to be seen. So far it's been a mix. One movie 'for the kids'. One movie for 'dad'. One visit to family for Ladybugs,, one visit to a friend for dad, and several trips with/to Ho2's house for dad. One friend spent the night for Ladybug. Probably a few overnights by Ho2 for Dad (but I don't ask or want to know about those).
Lexxy, we do not have right of first refusal in our final papers. It was in the 'draft' but never made it in the final version. It's funny, though, that Drac has tried numerous times to use it,,,,,,,and he's taken a different side of it depending on what he was trying to accomplish. It was almost as funny as your suggestion that he have to contact me for permission every time he was wanting a shack up weekend!
I just know I can't wait for the weekend. Easter is one of our favorite holidays with a BIG family Easter egg hunt (adults and kids!). We have a great time. I miss my kids a lot this week!!
Hoping all is well with everyone! Drop by with an update here or on your threads,,,,I promise to try to keep up better!
Yup, sounds like everything's under control here. Just don't eat to many of those eggs before you see R again
carry on
Hey, Bugsy! Thanks for for finding my windshield again... it's always good to hear your updates.
What an incredibly long way we have come (some of you further than others of us.)
Am continuing to see R. We are well enough into the relationship where we are now figuring out what I consider 'real life' stuff. A couple of weeks ago we had our first question about 'Do we want to keep this going?'.
I've had these thoughts recently. I struggle with it because I don't necessarily want more RIGHT NOW, but I'd like to know if the possiblity of more is out there or if we will forever be "day by day."
I'm a bit concerned that if I bring it up, he's either going to think I want to get married or that I want out.
Neither one is my immediate goal - but if it isn't ever going to go somewhere.......
It was interesting - - finding more out about how each of us communicates (or doesn't communicate) on certain subjects or feelings. I think we are coming into an important phase of our relationship. Because of what I've learned thru my divorce and from being here, I realize that how we handle these situations now is an indication of how it will be in the future. That is not something I gave any specific thought to previously. Now, it's very important to me.
I can relate to this. This is tough because HRG and I haven't really defined our relationship - so I don't feel I have the "right" to question anything he does or doesn't do.
It's funny how I view myself and this relationship differently than any I've had before. I now am much much more vocal about what I think and how I feel. If R does something that I don't like or I'm not 100% enthusiastic about, I let him know right then and there. The old Bugs would have said nothing. I would have written it off as not too important or I would have just put it aside in the 'hope' that the 'right' opportunity would come up to talk about it (which it never did because I never made it come up).
Guilty here.
I'm so impressed with how you are dealing with these things. I know how hard it can be, I'm still unable to find my voice in a way I feel is appropriate - so I say nothing.
I've always allowed myself to be viewed as the 'strong/independent' woman. And I AM a strong and independent woman. I am ALSO sensitive and vunerable. Those are NOT things that I have done well sharing and exposing in my past relationships.
Hey - are you my twin?
I'm no longer afraid to do that.
Oh, nope - not my twin.
Ladybugs & DSS are doing well.
I just know I can't wait for the weekend. Easter is one of our favorite holidays with a BIG family Easter egg hunt (adults and kids!). We have a great time. I miss my kids a lot this week!!
Hope you had a FANTASTIC weekend!
Great to read your update Bugsy.. looks like you and R seem to be doing well, and I love the approach you are taking. Sharing even the uncomfortable stuff seems to make it a lot less uncomfortable doesn't it?
Oh.. Memorial Day weekend plans ended up getting changed. Turns out DD, DS, and I will be in the 'lou the entire first week of June instead!
Any ideas of places to hit up along the way would be appreciated. I think we're probably going to do the arch, the zoo, and take in a Cards vs Reds game.. other than that we're wingin it. Would love to catch up with you while we're in town if you're available.
I think you've got my email addy, if not just hit me up and I'll get it to you.
Hey everyone!
No worries, BC, on the 'egg' issue! Won't be seeing R for another 9 days!
Foxxy, you really aren't too far off from being my 'twin'! Honestly, I'm not as 'far along' as it might sound. I'm merely dipping my toes into being able to handle the relationship with R the way I want/need to!
It's a moment by moment, day by day situation. Some moments I do better than others. I'm just happy with being AWARE of so much more than I ever was before.
I have had to face some of it a bit sooner than perhaps I had expected, as R has already said the "L" word. That threw me for a loop and had me hiding my head in the sand at first.
Obviously, the head in the sand technique does NOT work, and it was something we had to discuss. Which we did,,,, a little. There is more that we need to talk about. The important thing is that I was able to express my hesitantcy with going there,,,,,especially so early in our relationship. It also gave me the opportunity (which I took) to outline some guidelines/perameterrs I have for our relationship.
I don't have a lot of time today, but there's more to say on that topic. For now, though, we're at an ok place with the opportunity to work on things as we travel down the road. We've not set a destination yet and I'm good with that for now.
James! Great to read your update & I took a look at you on youtube. Love your facial expressions!
Real quick, I definately recommend the City Museum. My kids LOVE that place! We can chat more about options. Drop me a line bugsmom1115@gmail.com.
Love ya guys!!
Uh yeah.. the Bassface is a chronic problem. I'm seeking treatment.
You'll have mail soon.
James,
Nuttin wrong with bassface. It makes each musician unique!
Quick update to today. Drac has been a 'bit' friendly in email the last few days,,,so I have been suspicious. Wed nights are his usual nights with Ladybug. He was out of town today for work and unsure about his return time, so he'd asked that I get her from latchkey & he'd pick her up when he got back.
No big deal.
Then, mid afternoon, I get a text message that he was just leaving to head home. Then another later saying he was about an hour away. Then another that says, "5 minutes out. Need 2 talk 2 u".
Now I am TOTALLY suspicious!! I figured what with the latest ho spending the night & her car being there Sunday when I dropped DSS off, and his continued activity on match.com, I was still persona non grata.
I had to reply and tell him we were at McD's. He came there. It's the first I've seen him or that we have verbally spoken since the incident a couple of months ago with DSS. I will admit to being disappointed in myself that I wasn't in my true "Goddess" form,,, of course this is the first day in a long, long time I wasn't dressed to the 9's! Figures!
Anyway, turns out he wanted to talk about things going on at work??!!! About how he 'had' to go out of town when it wasn't necessary. The 'training' was a waste of time. How a position I have talked about being interested in for years was 'handed over' to someone without being posted. yada yada yada.
Mostly I just looked at him, nodded, or responded with a raised eyebrow. No more moral support from me to him. Not my job any more. Nor did I ask many questions, other than "Really?" or "And?"
I can't gauge his reaction to my non-reaction, because I don't really care.
I suspect he was trying to get me to talk about what my new position is. I haven't told him anything about it,,,,,,,,,and I don't intend to tell him anything. It has nothing to do with him and is none of his business.
Other than that, I totally don't understand WHY he 'had to talk to me'. I don't get it???
We had to walk to the car and get DD's book bag. He asked if I'd heard about a teacher at DSS's school getting let go because of inappropriate activity with her male students (and her husband's football players). I said no. He told me what he'd heard on the news and that he had called "Janet, whose daughter is DSS's age" (my assumption is that this is one of his 'date' friends). I just listened. Obviously, this would be something I'll hear about when I have time to listen to the news!! Don't know why he felt compelled to talk to me about it, as we BOTH have no worries about DSS having been involved in anything to do with it.
I walked away feeling strange. Why? Not because I had a churning stomach like in the past,,,,but rather for the very fact that this was one of the few times I HAVEN'T felt that way! Kinda nice. Kinda weird.
"5 minutes out. Need 2 talk 2 u".
Translation: My needs aren't being met by the ho's.. I need someone to commiserate with me about work and the kids, and only you will do. I'll just use you to alleviate that burden and be on my way.
Feh..
Your reaction was perfect.
Drac=
MAROON It's crazy how he thinks he still has the right to reach for you after all he's done.
As we knew, Bugs, you are irreplaceable.
Foxxy, you really aren't too far off from being my 'twin'! Honestly, I'm not as 'far along' as it might sound. I'm merely dipping my toes into being able to handle the relationship with R the way I want/need to!
Well, you're looking good from this side of the screen!
I stretched my comfort zone quite a bit yesterday and voiced a concern - it's a long story but essentially the situation driving this made me feel like a 5 year old that was having privileges taken away.
Fox------>
We talked - he was very concerned that I was mad. I was more hurt than anything - and tried to tell him what I felt like when he made comments like the one he made. He was surprised that I took it the way I did because that isn't how he meant it.
I know I'm sometimes overly sensitive and take things personally. I'm so critical of myself that I think others are doing the same thing. However, I can't brush everything under the rug and write it off to being too sensitive. I have a right to feel what I feel - I just now also see the necessity of bringing into the open. Only so much can fit under the rug - eventually it starts peeking out the sides. KWIM?
I think we ended the conversation okay.
Hmmmm----be right back - my wireless keyboard signal is low?
Okay....batteries replaced. (Leave it alone, BC)
I'm just happy with being AWARE of so much more than I ever was before.
Absolutely. You'll never have a chance to address it if you are never aware of it. It's a stepping stone.....
as R has already said the "L" word. That threw me for a loop and had me hiding my head in the sand at first.
YIPES!
HRG and I say alot of things that MEAN ILY but never actually have said it. I think he knows it would send me running for the hills. Not because I don't want to hear it...... but I don't know.
It takes it to a different level, from a just right now kinda thing to a commitment, obligation, and responsibility to do no harm. KWIM? ILY gives the other person the knowledge that they CAN hurt you and the power to do so.
I'm sure I've "overthunk" again.
Obviously, the head in the sand technique does NOT work, and it was something we had to discuss. Which we did,,,, a little. There is more that we need to talk about. The important thing is that I was able to express my hesitantcy with going there,,,,,especially so early in our relationship. It also gave me the opportunity (which I took) to outline some guidelines/perameterrs I have for our relationship.
You are my hero.
I hope you are writing a "How to for dummies".
don't have a lot of time today, but there's more to say on that topic. For now, though, we're at an ok place with the opportunity to work on things as we travel down the road. We've not set a destination yet and I'm good with that for now.
Excellent outcome.
I learn so much from you on this subject, Bugsy. Thank you.
Fox
James,
I suspect perhaps you are right on the 'needs' thing, but I still am shaking my head. For goodness sake, the current ho works at the same place, why isn't he talking to HER about this?
As Foxxy said, how is it possible that he thinks he has the right to come to me after everything that has happened? Well, let's be honest, I have been responsive in meeting this 'need' in the past. This was TRULY the FIRST time that I didn't meet it in any way other than to sit there and listen. So, I guess the answer is that he thinks it's ok because I've made it ok in the past.
No more.
I am also shaking my head because he then sent me a text that night asking about a photo order form for Ladybugs. It wasn't a necessary question at all.
Then, yesterday morning he sent me a web link about the teacher at DSS's school.
WEIRD.
I am a bit suspicious. I just get the feeling he is being nicer because he's building up to something or wanting something. Almost every time in the past when he's been 'nicer' or when he has initiated better communication it is usually followed up with him being up to or wanting something. Although a friend of mine pointed out that every time in the past, he hit pretty quick with what he wanted. He's been being nice for almost a week now without a word about what he wants,,,,,,,,,,,
Whatever.
I'd rather talk about you, Miss Fox. You are doing better than I suspect you think you are doing. I'm SO glad to hear that you let HRG know about your concern!
And then you find out that he had NO idea that you might think/feel the way you did about it.
Stop and think about that. I think that you are likely doing negative self talk about 'why DID I think or feel that way'. Don't go too far down that road.
What's more important is that you TALKED about it, not about how you felt was 'right' or 'wrong'. You felt the way you felt and he needed to know.
You were able to talk about it. He learned about you. You learned about him. THAT is positive progess in a R,,,,and if I'm not mistaken, it is the way a healthy relationship is supposed to work!
HRG and I say alot of things that MEAN ILY but never actually have said it. I think he knows it would send me running for the hills. Not because I don't want to hear it...... but I don't know.
I TOTALLY get what you are saying about that! When R said it, I felt knocked off my feet! I was awash in so many emotions.
I was thrilled, excited, overwhelmed, amazed, scared, and nervous. Then, it was the sick to the stomach feeling,,,,,,asking myself, "Do I say it back?" My response was "Really?".
He expected me to say it back. When I didn't, he asked for it, and I did say it. So then it was "OUT THERE". After a couple of weeks, when it was always him saying it first, it became an 'issue' which we had to talk about.
Unfortunately, he chose to start the conversation via email, which made me a bit angry at first. We had been together for the weekend, and then he sent an email right after he left.
Rather than detail it all, it came down to just being open and honest with each other. I explained how I felt and asked for his understanding. Does he completely understand? Probably not. But I was able to rectify some incorrect assumptions he had (he thought I am still in love with Drac). I was able to explain more about the damage and my perceptions of how I want my future relationship to be. And, if he's on board with it, that relationship will be with him.
It takes it to a different level, from a just right now kinda thing to a commitment, obligation, and responsibility to do no harm. KWIM? ILY gives the other person the knowledge that they CAN hurt you and the power to do so.
I agree with and understand what you are saying here. It's a BIG step. I said as much to R. It's something I take EXTREMELY seriously.
We'd talked about him meeting the kids. He couldn't understand why I'd want him to meet the kids BEFORE I was at the ILY stage. I explained that part of the ILY stage involves the kids. I have no doubt he's going to be absolutely wonderful with the kids. But there's no guarantees in life & if things AREN'T great between them all, the ILY isn't going to be applicable. I can not and will not move forward in a relationship without the situation/invovlement with the kids being positive.
If it's not good between them, it's not good between US.
Does that make sense?
You are my hero.
I hope you are writing a "How to for dummies".
I appreciate the compliment,,,, but there's no way I'm writing anything 'for dummies' when I still totally feel like I am one of them!
I've been working on this post off & on over my 2 hour conference call, which just ended. I intend to get some final work done and am headed outside. It's beautiful out there and I have yard work to complete before the rain moves in tonight!
Hope everyone has a great weekend!
As Foxxy said, how is it possible that he thinks he has the right to come to me after everything that has happened?
Um, because you let him? Granted, you didn't know ahead of time that his 'need 2 talk' wasn't about anything of importance to you, but now you know for the future that just because he thinks it's important to talk to you doesn't mean it actually is.
Well, let's be honest, I have been responsive in meeting this 'need' in the past. This was TRULY the FIRST time that I didn't meet it in any way other than to sit there and listen.
It's still meeting his need, actually.
So, I guess the answer is that he thinks it's ok because I've made it ok in the past. No more.
Good job
Dang Bugs! It's so good to hear how well things are going for you. So good to hear that Drac can no longer hurt you.
Drac. What a loser. One of these days he'll get tired of the Ho of the Week game that he plays. Hopefully though, he'll have a steady supply of them to keep him out of your hair. Gee, what a great BF he must make. Kind of makes you feel sorry for the next Ho.
Bugsy:
I can't speak much about your R with R. Cuz, I'm sorta bad at that....
But I just have on hint from now on:
When you get the "I need to talk to you" from Drac? Set your Cell phone allarm to go off in 6-7 minutes after you arrive. Youcan "answer the phone" and step away. And then, you can GO.
Poor pitiful Drac. He has no one to talk to.
And its killing him that the doesn't know what you are doing.
If it's not Ladybugs or DSS's discussion, then it doesn't matter.
7 minutes, TOPS!
LG
I'd rather talk about you, Miss Fox. You are doing better than I suspect you think you are doing. I'm SO glad to hear that you let HRG know about your concern!
And then you find out that he had NO idea that you might think/feel the way you did about it.
Thanks, Bugsy. It's certainly something I'm working on still.
What's more important is that you TALKED about it, not about how you felt was 'right' or 'wrong'. You felt the way you felt and he needed to know.
You were able to talk about it. He learned about you. You learned about him. THAT is positive progess in a R,,,,and if I'm not mistaken, it is the way a healthy relationship is supposed to work!
I probably made it sound better than it was. We did talk about it, but I still wasn't as open as I should have been. There's still alot of self protection going on there.
This one, I think I can let go of because we DID discuss it, even not everything got out of me that should have.
There is still a comment riding on my mind from fairly early on with HRG. Part of me says that he was only trying to give me options and find varying solutions.
I was talking about my plans to move, what I thought I might be able to do, etc - I did not say anything about financing concerns. He made a comment suggesting I look into low income housing.
I can't tell you what that did to me.
Immediately I thought, "he thinks I'm incompetant and unable to provide for myself and DDs. That's all the faith and belief he has in me and my capabilities."
I literally felt the steel wall come from the bottom of my toes and SLAM! into place at the top of my head. I don't even remember responding to him. The conversation just stopped.
The rest of the day I was withdrawn. I remember EXACTLY where we were and what we were doing at that moment in the conversation - and the absolute shut down that occured.
It used to drive WxH nuts that I could remember all the minute details - usually down to what we were WEARING. That's how important some of these issues are to me - or just how badly they hurt. WxH could only remember that he was mad - not the reason, just the fact that he was mad.
Anyhoo, that simple statement by HRG still hangs on in my mind - and is then brought back again when something new happens.
It seems stupid to bring up at this point, it was quite a while ago - and I really do know that he didn't mean to put me down with it. I just dont' know how to let it go.
I was thrilled, excited, overwhelmed, amazed, scared, and nervous. Then, it was the sick to the stomach feeling,,,,,,asking myself, "Do I say it back?" My response was "Really?".
That's too cute!
He expected me to say it back. When I didn't, he asked for it, and I did say it.
Yipes! That sounds a little awkward.
After a couple of weeks, when it was always him saying it first, it became an 'issue' which we had to talk about.
It's great that you can talk about it. Awkward or not.
I find it just waiting on the tip of my tongue sometimes..... and I cannot let it escape.
I have a fear of him saying because as soon as he does, I'm going to think - "Well, you don't know me very well then. As soon as you do, that will change."
Unfortunately, he chose to start the conversation via email, which made me a bit angry at first. We had been together for the weekend, and then he sent an email right after he left.
He may have felt more comfortable and less confrontational by sending an email about it. I do this - I think I "speak" better in writing than I do by talking, and I can keep the emotion out of it and be able to say all of what I need to say to get it all out of my brain. (hard to build intimacy that way, though)
Rather than detail it all, it came down to just being open and honest with each other. I explained how I felt and asked for his understanding. Does he completely understand? Probably not. But I was able to rectify some incorrect assumptions he had (he thought I am still in love with Drac). I was able to explain more about the damage and my perceptions of how I want my future relationship to be. And, if he's on board with it, that relationship will be with him.
Good job!
There is so much I need to find the courage to talk about with HRG. Your posts encourage me - and show me it might just be safe enough to do so.
We'd talked about him meeting the kids. He couldn't understand why I'd want him to meet the kids BEFORE I was at the ILY stage. I explained that part of the ILY stage involves the kids. I have no doubt he's going to be absolutely wonderful with the kids. But there's no guarantees in life & if things AREN'T great between them all, the ILY isn't going to be applicable. I can not and will not move forward in a relationship without the situation/invovlement with the kids being positive.
If it's not good between them, it's not good between US.
Does that make sense?
Absolutely, it makes sense.
But be careful, too. DD14 DOES NOT approve of HRG AT ALL. I don't think it is him personally, I think it will be ANYONE who is not her dad. HRG is very good to DD14, the few times they are together anymore. I generally don't see much of HRG when DD14 is with me because she is borderline rude to him.
I know you know this, but don't let the kids be the sole deciding factor. I'd be alone for the rest of my days if I did that.
You have an extra twist with DSS. It might be pretty tough on him. What does R think of that situation - you still being so close to DSS and having time with him?
Hope you had a FANTASTIC weekend! Thanks for all the insight!
Fox
Hi everyone!
Thanks for the replies.
Yes, I see that just sitting and listening does 'meet his need' in some form. I'd like to think, though, that by not actively participating in the conversation as I have in the past, that Drac walked away still "wanting".
Even if he didn't, I am better this time around than ever before. I was able to control my sometimes 'uncontrollable giver'. You know, that polite/nice little girl my momma raised to have good manners, even if the person you are around doesn't have good manners?!
I managed to keep her underwraps this time around!
Chai, I wish I could honestly say 100% that Drac can no longer hurt me. That would be a lie. The difference with this conversation was that I was able to control that 'nice girl' and give him my minimum. There was/is a small part of me inside that WANTED to participate in that conversation. A part that misses talking to him and sharing ideas/thoughts.
By controlling myself better, I know that I lessened his ability to hurt me. He can really only hurt me now if I allow it. If I open myself up one tiny little bit to the want/need of the past. I don't want to do that. And this time, I didn't. Of that, I am proud.
Well, well, Miss Cowgirl! What a thorough post you have here!
Let's see if I can do such a good job in my reply.
I still wasn't as open as I should have been. There's still alot of self protection going on there.
Yep! Know what ya mean here for sure! And for now, that's ok. The good thing is that you are aware of what you are doing, and you are actively thinking about it, with the intent to change (eventually). Right?
Ok, now to the that old comment that keeps poking at you.
Immediately I thought, "he thinks I'm incompetant and unable to provide for myself and DDs. That's all the faith and belief he has in me and my capabilities
Are you perhaps punishing him for someone else's sins here?
Are you reverting back a bit to the less confident Foxx?
Probably a bit of both.
You need to figure out what drove you to have that immediate response. I don't think that really is the person you are today, is it? We all fall back a bit from time to time with old thoughts and habits. Just don't let it continue.
That being said, I'd also point out that his comment was very much a "guy" answer. You were talking about your thoughts, your ideas, your plans. You weren't ASKING for him to fix it or to tell you what to do.
If you are like me, (which you very often are), I get quite prickly when a man always tried to FIX things that I didn't ask for him to FIX. In conversations that are just me talking about my 'stuff', I most often don't want/need anything more than someone to listen.
As a general rule of thumb, the natural reaction of a man is to FIX whatever it is and move on.
So, whatever his reason for saying it and whatever your reason for still feeling hurt about it - - - you DO need to tell him.
For what it's worth, here's what "I'd" do. VERY soon, in conversation where you are face to face, just simply tell him about it. It doesn't have to be a big huge, "I need to talk to you" sort of thing.
Simply say, "HRG, there's something I have had on my mind and I just have to get it off my mind. Some time ago, we were having a conversation about my plans to move and you said something that really hurt me. You suggested that I look into low income housing. I don't think you meant it in a bad way, but it really did hurt my feelings.
It made me feel like you think I'm incompetant and unable to provide for myself and DDs. That's all the faith and belief you have in me and my capabilities.
Now, I realize that my immediate reation was off base, but it's been nagging at me ever since you said it. I just needed to tell you that it hurt."
And leave it there for him to respond. If you are not angry or weepy about it, chances are it will be a very simple conversation. His likely response will be, "Foxx, I am sorry that hurt you, because I most certainly did not mean it that way at all!"
You can then, if you choose, to elaborate about why you think you reacted with that feeling and go from there. Perhaps down a road of a little less 'self protection'?
I have a fear of him saying because as soon as he does, I'm going to think - "Well, you don't know me very well then. As soon as you do, that will change."
Ah ha! Good old fashion betrayed spouse insecurity rearing it's ugly head here!
It's very similar to my reaction when I first found out that R was interested in me at all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and again after he said ILY.
I wasn't quite so honest with myself. I kept it at the "How can you possibly say that when you really don't even know me?"
But your same quote was the extention of that thought inside my head.
Fight it. You are WAY past going down that road my friend. Don't make me break out the Stewart Smalley utube video link to remind you that you are Good Enough, Smart Enough, and Gosh Darn it, People Like you!!
I was just thinking this morning in the shower about the 'damage path' Drac created in me. I've done a HUGE amount of clearing up of debris and reconstruction, I also can still see the area of destruction underneath all of the new/exciting/wonderful repairs and changes. The wounds are still healing.
It's more noticable when hitting different developmental areas in a new relationship. I feel it's natural to stop and look, realizing I've been here before. Having been here before, I know that in the end, I was hurt.
I then have a choice. I can allow that previous hurt/damage to keep me from traveling down this path again OR I can acknowledge that it's not the SAME as before. It's rebuilt. Like the 6 Million Dollar Man - better, stronger, faster!
By not allowing Drac's damage path to prevent me from taking ANY path I choose in life, I further recover from his destruction.
It's ok to pause. Just don't stop the journey. Unless or until you decide that HRG isn't the one with which to take that journey.
Hi Bugs,
A part that misses talking to him and sharing ideas/thoughts.
I have this EXACT feeling. I find myself in a different place today. Somewhat giving up and just having him be my friend.
I MISS my best friend. The only part that holds me sane on this is WHO would I be talking to. Not MY H because he is the wayward and therefore the conversation wouldn't be the same because who he has become is selfish and his answers and reactions wouldn't come from the same place.
Bugs, your growth, strength and ability to understand yourself is awesome to watch unfold.
You know, that polite/nice little girl my momma raised to have good manners, even if the person you are around doesn't have good manners?!
Oh, heck yeah, I know her.
It's quite the struggle to stuff her sometimes - she is sure strong for bein' so darn polite!
The difference with this conversation was that I was able to control that 'nice girl' and give him my minimum. There was/is a small part of me inside that WANTED to participate in that conversation. A part that misses talking to him and sharing ideas/thoughts.
Boy, do I know this feeling, too. Having an "issue" with this particular subject today - I'll post on my thread.
Well, well, Miss Cowgirl! What a thorough post you have here!
Is wordy the same as thorough?
Let's see if I can do such a good job in my reply.
You did wonderful, my darling.
Yep! Know what ya mean here for sure! And for now, that's ok. The good thing is that you are aware of what you are doing, and you are actively thinking about it, with the intent to change (eventually). Right?
Thanks for bringing me back around to this..... you are absolutely right.
Are you perhaps punishing him for someone else's sins here?
Are you reverting back a bit to the less confident Foxx?
Probably a bit of both.
I think you are right on both counts.
Punishing him for someone else's sins.......probably yes, but not just WxH's sins - it goes deeper and further back than that.
Losing confidence......hmmmm, you are right here, too, I think. The question is why. Possibly, because I've made myself somewhat vulnerable, I am looking for an excuse to close that back up.
You need to figure out what drove you to have that immediate response. I don't think that really is the person you are today, is it? We all fall back a bit from time to time with old thoughts and habits. Just don't let it continue.
No, it's not really the person I am trying to be. That little voice is still back there, though, whispering, "Pssst! Fox! You're STILL not good enough.
"
I fight it off with "good enough for what? Good enough for who? I just need to be happy with myself."
It's ongoing....... as you can tell.
That being said, I'd also point out that his comment was very much a "guy" answer. You were talking about your thoughts, your ideas, your plans. You weren't ASKING for him to fix it or to tell you what to do.
You are right on with this one, too. The OTHER side of my brain says this - it's just the little niggling thoughts that keep whispering at me.
So, whatever his reason for saying it and whatever your reason for still feeling hurt about it - - - you DO need to tell him.
I think that little voice is just an excuse not to build further intimacy. It says "see, see what he thinks of you. You better back off before he can hurt you more."
The other side says - tell him, talk about it, that little voice will be quieted once it is proven wrong. And if it is proven right? What have I really lost? There will be loss, there will be some hurt - but I've survived WxH.......
Simply say, "HRG, there's something I have had on my mind and I just have to get it off my mind. Some time ago, we were having a conversation about my plans to move and you said something that really hurt me. You suggested that I look into low income housing. I don't think you meant it in a bad way, but it really did hurt my feelings.
It made me feel like you think I'm incompetant and unable to provide for myself and DDs. That's all the faith and belief you have in me and my capabilities.
Now, I realize that my immediate reation was off base, but it's been nagging at me ever since you said it. I just needed to tell you that it hurt."
That's perfect, Bugs. Just perfect.
One of my concerns with bringing this up, is that I'm afraid that it will scare him into not saying anything at all. Then when I AM looking for suggestions and help, he won't say anything because he is afraid I'll be offended.
KWIM?
His likely response will be, "Foxx, I am sorry that hurt you, because I most certainly did not mean it that way at all!"
I can just about guarantee you that this is what he will say. So why always that little voice causing problems?
Ah ha! Good old fashion betrayed spouse insecurity rearing it's ugly head here!
It's very similar to my reaction when I first found out that R was interested in me at all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and again after he said ILY.
I wasn't quite so honest with myself. I kept it at the "How can you possibly say that when you really don't even know me?"
But your same quote was the extention of that thought inside my head.
I think you are spot on here, too. Somehow, someway, I have to force my way through that little voice - and take the risk. Why do we think it is so unbelievable for someone to love us quickly?
R has known you for quite some time - not romantically but still you. He can probably make a pretty good decision after he has had time with you romantically now, too.
I've known HRG for awhile - also not romantically until after the D. But he knew me through WxH's A and the D. A time when I was at my absolute worst. If he is still around after all that....... he's probably got a good idea of who I am and can make a decent decision on whether he can love me or not.
Well, damn, I think I just hit on something there. Thanks for "talking" it out.....
Fight it. You are WAY past going down that road my friend. Don't make me break out the Stewart Smalley utube video link to remind you that you are Good Enough, Smart Enough, and Gosh Darn it, People Like you!!
I so remember that!
was just thinking this morning in the shower about the 'damage path' Drac created in me. I've done a HUGE amount of clearing up of debris and reconstruction, I also can still see the area of destruction underneath all of the new/exciting/wonderful repairs and changes. The wounds are still healing.
It's more noticable when hitting different developmental areas in a new relationship. I feel it's natural to stop and look, realizing I've been here before. Having been here before, I know that in the end, I was hurt.
I then have a choice. I can allow that previous hurt/damage to keep me from traveling down this path again OR I can acknowledge that it's not the SAME as before. It's rebuilt. Like the 6 Million Dollar Man - better, stronger, faster!
By not allowing Drac's damage path to prevent me from taking ANY path I choose in life, I further recover from his destruction.
Ah, the shower. It's amazing the amount of thinking gets done in the shower!
All excellent points. You are so right. Thank you for bringing back around to where I should be. Self-doubt does no good.
It's ok to pause. Just don't stop the journey. Unless or until you decide that HRG isn't the one with which to take that journey.
Truly, Bugs, thank you. Such wise words from such a wise woman.
Fox
Bugs, your growth, strength and ability to understand yourself is awesome to watch unfold.
ITA!!!
Ya know, it's a good thing this forum doesn't have a timeout feature for how long it takes to get a post in - I am WAY too wordy!
Fox
No Way!! I never noticed that!
No Way!! I never noticed that!
:twobyfour:
How's that?
Ah, the shower. It's amazing the amount of thinking gets done in the shower!
I'm trying to behave
You're killin me, you're FRIKIN killin me!!
Ah, the shower. It's amazing the amount of thinking gets done in the shower!
I'm trying to behave
You're killin me, you're FRIKIN killin me!!
I said
THINKING, BC, not _____king.
Oh, nevermind!!
Fox
I'm trying to behave
You're killin me, you're FRIKIN killin me!!
Ahhh, BC! You KNOW that we have to intentionally throw out some bait every now and then just to get you to stop by!
I almost deleted the detail of 'where' I was 'thinking', but figured it might be a way to be sure you are still lurking around!
I thought maybe you were too busy with all of the available women out there, with no time for the Amigos!
Foxx, you are doing just fine my dear! Relax.
Enjoy the warm weather and prepare for the what will hopefully be your last snow!
Hi Bugs,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and insights about how to approach life with 'healthier' coping mechanisms. Very much appreciated.
Hey Luna! It's been a while. How are you? Hope all is well.
Well, I'm still working on the 'using healthier coping mechanisms.' Definately a work in progress!
I had a nice surprise when R called Thursday night and told me he'd decided to drive in that night instead of waiting to fly in late Fri night! It was 7 hours and he didn't get here until 2:30 a.m!
I did have to work part of the day Friday, but it's nice to have the option to work from home. He mowed my grass for me! We picked up Ladybug from latchkey and headed over to get DSS. I missed a call from DSS at 5:09, but by the time I saw it, we were almost there to get him. I figured he was just wanting to know when I'd get there,,,,,,,but I'm pretty sure it was because Drac wanted to know.
We pulled up and Drac was in the garage w/the door open,,,,,,,working on his motorcycle with a couple that are friends of his. (supposedly were OUR friends as one time, but they helped him pull off the A with the HO and turned their backs on me). This is the motorcycle he HID during the divorce and then told everyone he sold last year. UGH! I hate that motorcycle, I guess because for me, it's a symbol of all that he was hiding during that time.
I'll be honest with you all. It felt pretty good to pull up with R driving. It didn't hurt that he drives a beautiful Cadillac DTS, either.
I know, , , that's pretty shallow of me, isn't it? Well, I know it is, but that is how I felt.
We went out to eat and R was great with both of the kids. We had a really nice time. Saturday morning when we all got up, the first thing R did was get on the computer to look something up to help DSS with a school project he'd told us about on Friday night. I hadn't said a word, he just did it. I must say, I was quite impressed by that move.
The weather was beautiful and the kids went out to play most of the day. We went to the store & bought a bar-b-que grill. Came home & put it together. It's a thing of beauty! I started to sweep up and clean my screened in porch. R decided we needed to do it 'right', so a trip to Lowes was in order.
He helped me clean the entire porch, all of the furniture, and he installed a new light for me. It looks great. He then grilled out for dinner. He had planned to take us all to the movies 'because Ladybugs wants to see x movie,,,,we should go'. Totally his idea & again, it impressed me. We ended up not going because the kids were having lots of fun and weren't in the mood to get cleaned up to go, which was fine.
This morning, since he was driving home, he got ready to go early in the morning. My mom was coming over to go to church with us,,,,,and he 'tried' to sneak out before meeting her. He KNEW I wanted him to stay to meet her, so he didn't put up a fight. ha! Short version - - Mom approves.
I asked the kids and they both really like him. I'm not surprised, but will say I'm a bit relieved to have the initial meeting over & that it all went so well.
Honestly, it was one of the best weekends I've had in a long time. Even though we didn't do anything 'special', it was wonderful. It was great to have someone here with me, just doing 'normal' stuff. I love that we work well together. Putting together the grill,,,putting in the light,,,,it just seemed so very natural and easy. It was very enjoyable.
And, I'm thinking more & more about the 'L' word.
Took DSS home a bit ago. Drac & the Latest Ho were there, but thankfully not outside! Ladybugs mentioned something about his bike on the way home & I mentioned that he'd said he'd sold it. She replied something about how he lies & how she hates it when he lies to her. So sad! I just changed the subject.
So, am relaxing for the rest of the weekend. Wish it was time for a vacation! That's coming in July & I can't wait.
It is so incredibly awesome to see this happiness happen for you. You deserve it and so much more.
I know you know to enjoy everyday of it because it's G-ds blessings for the woman you have become.
Bugsy:
When are you going to open that pool!
Mine is clear and cool! Swimming is on tonight!
LG
Thanks for the kind words, Queenie! God really does deserve all of the credit!
Ok LG,,,,,,,stop showing off!
It was really warm here this weekend so I did manage to get the water drained off of the cover. Then, of course, it is raining today! Hopefully, my little syphon is still working and keeping it as low as it was this morning so all I need to do is drag the leaves off and throw in the chemicals.
Well, and get the pump out,,,,and get everything connected. And pray nothing is leaking!
That's the long answer. The short answer is, I have no idea! haha! Ladybugs was on me first thing this morning about it, too - so I can't wait much longer or she will disown me!
Drac emailed DSS's progress report. Good news is he brought up his Spanish. Bad news is now he's failing Biology! He also emailed about the summer schedule. Long story short there - - - we disagree about it. So,,,,I'll be checking the court order and getting back to him. I was really upset at first but then just decided it's time to put my foot down and make him abide by the order. I'm really tired of accomodating his every wish & whim.
Bugsy:
I'm not showing off.
The pool represents the rebirth of our marriage.
The pool guy was coming to the house four days after DDay.
It was a HUGE committment.
When it is bright and sparkly, it reminds Flamingo and I of how far we have come, and how our lives have changed.
LG
LG,
Well, I have to say I disagree,,,,well perhaps not so much disagree as I think about this differently
When it is bright and sparkly, it reminds Flamingo and I of how far we have come, and how our lives have changed.
Even if you are NOT showing off, you darn well SHOULD be! The meaning/symbolism behind the pool is something to be proud of, IMHO. A shining example to all here of what IS possible after the worst of circumstances!
Then, there are those like me who are on the other end of the spectrum. I'm still very sad that my story doesn't include a symbol of recovery and a new, improved marriage to Drac.
However, there are still many happy times to be had & I'm enjoying them every chance I get.
Alas, I still have to deal with the selfish, wayward thinking Drac when it comes to the kids. Monday started with him trying to establish the summer schedule. Of course I'd contacted him a couple of months ago already about it. Ladybugs has her last day of school on May 27th.
Long story short, we are in disagreement about who has the first full week of summer. Bottom line is he started out with saying he doesn't want it because it changes the weekend schedule and he "needs to have it the same as the friends on HIS side because that is when they get the families together."
The truth is, it's MORE about the weekends they DON'T have kids. The next several responses from Drac only served to make that point, but as always, I guess I'm not supposed to be smart enough to figure that out.
He specifically noted a week in July he planned to be WITHOUT the kids. I responded and made adjustments to the schedule accordingly. His next response was about ANOTHER week he has planned WITHOUT the kids.
Anyone but me see the pattern here?
For the first time, I stood firm and have not given in to his 'demands' on this. I pointed out that I have always agreed to changes in the schedule to accomodate that for him.
However, I informed him that I, too, have friends/family with which I want to match schedules with for family get togethers and that schedule falls on the same weekends that he insists on having. I explained that thru the natural course of the schedule, we each will have those particular weekends from time to time. Nor have I gone to all of the trouble to do a calendar for him as I have in the past. My goodness, he can run a business with almost 100 employees, but he can't write down his children's schedule on a calendar? PUH-LEESE!
Mid-way thru the back & forth I stopped trying to 'explain' things to him. It's a fruitless effort. He is like a demanding child, insisting that the only way that is 'right' is HIS way. He is, however, doing a better job of putting it all under the 'guise' of communicating & working together.
He tried to call me and also asked that we 'sit down with a calendar and iron it all out'. He's made sure to mention several times about 'working it out', or 'not disagreeing' with me. :crosseyedcrazy: I guess he believes he can manipulate me better face to face??
Whatever.
I better get to work! I didn't realize the time! YIKES!
Hi Bugs,
Alas, I still have to deal with the selfish, wayward thinking Drac when it comes to the kids.
This REALLY resonates with me...I also think it's the main reason why a WS wants 'friendly co-parenting'...easier for WS to make demands, and harder for BS not to be accommodating.
I have accepted to speak to WS about the kids if he thinks he needs to, but since I am no longer as accomodating as he expected me to be, requests are not that numerous (particularly ever since I have started to use them as occasions for accountability for WS's commitments!
).
Bugsy:
No way you posted this....
Then, there are those like me who are on the other end of the spectrum. I'm still very sad that my story doesn't include a symbol of recovery and a new, improved marriage to Drac.
Your symbol of recovery?
Your house.
Your Pool
Your chances at a Relationship with someone who GETS IT
Your relationship with God.
Yes, this is Marriage BUILDERS. And you ended up divorced. But the blame for that lies with Drac.
He is still the entitled wayward that I WAS at one time. I could be dealing with Flamingo the exact same way right now. Whining and complaining because I WANT MY WEEKS OFF!
But something happened for me on DDay. That never happened for Drac, or the Z, or Wayzilla, etc.
I'm not showing off. I'm very humbled by the how narrowly we avoided complete disaster.
(((Bugsy)) and ((Lady Bugs))
and a M(DSS)M for him too. M(..)M Is a Man-Hug, sort like after hitting a home run...
LG
But something happened for me on DDay. That never happened for Drac, or the Z, or Wayzilla, etc.
Yup, totally agree with this statment. I can't speak for LG, but I can say that these other waywards had no idea what they were giving up, and many have spent countless hours continuing to attempt to justify the decision by demonizing their exes.
It's only recently that I have seen some changes, shifts in the Z, and that is ONLY because I've told him of my plans to move. NOW he sees what a fool he was. He said, "I'm sorry for how things turned out" not because he's sorry he hurt me, but because, IMO, he's sorry for how his choices are affecting him. What his choices did to me still does not matter, and that's okay, because I have choices to make.
Truth be told, as parents we have been working in our son's best interest very well together. I don't always get what *I* want and neither does he, but DS does. I could give two [censored] whether or not some weekend is a problem for him, and he is the same. If we have the time and can switch, fine, we do, if not, each one of us is responsible for making other arrangements. That's that. No huge discussion about it.
Bugsy, if you have to make a calendar for the sake of being cut and dried, then do it. The less work you have to do in the long run with all of the disputing. Just lay it on the line and don't be long winded about it.......in my humble opinion...
LG,
But something happened for me on DDay. That never happened for Drac, or the Z, or Wayzilla, etc
You are exactly right. I know you aren't 'showing off', as you 'GET IT', but you certainly can be proud to be on the side of recovery with Flamingo by your side.
Please, don't misunderstand my comment about being sad. It's not an everpresent feeling the way it once was. It's more a reflection when I look back on my life, that is is unfortunate that Drac never had that moment and never made the choice to save our marriage.
I am very proud of what MY personal recovery looks like, and I am happy with my life today. I have much to be thankful for, and at the top of that list is MB and all my fine friends here. I know I would not be where I am today without all of you!
I can say that these other waywards had no idea what they were giving up, and many have spent countless hours continuing to attempt to justify the decision by demonizing their exes
SL, you sure hit that spot on. Drac is certainly of that catagory. I've seen glimpses of him being sorry for the way things turned out, but like Z, it's more about any negative impact on HIM, not due to any pain he caused me or the kids. Although he has never said any words to that effect to me. Likely, he never will.
Honestly, I've thought for so long or perhaps FOUGHT for so long admitting that there could possibly be anything Drac could do to help me heal my pain. I believe if he would ever express any kind of remorse for any of what he did, it would help me.
There. I said it.
Maybe now I can move on from it.
Just lay it on the line and don't be long winded about it.......in my humble opinion...
It's a great opinion and one that I value very much!
I 'thought' I've done this in the past, but looking back I think I was too wordy in my attempt to show it as 'cut & dried'.
This time, by not doing the calendar or giving long explainations, it did go a bit smoother in the long run. Drac threw his attempts out there but when I didn't react, he agreed with what I'd laid out and it was done.
And, for the first time I really didn't care what he thought or how he felt about any of it. Perhaps that is showing through.
So, SL, what IS that latest AZ update? I am so happy for you that you are moving forward with your hopes, dreams & desires!!! Let us know how it's going.
Hi Bugs,
It's not an everpresent feeling the way it once was.
...I see this as an indication of you moving forward, being honest with yourself, and getting 'healthier'.... and more like 'one step back, two forward'...
...so, just keep doing what you are doing Bugs, and while you are looking back, also see how far you have come.
Good morning everyone!
Thought I'd pop in for a quick post as it's been so long. I'm crazy busy with work, trips to see R, kids, Ladybug started softball again, yardwork, getting the pool ready, and just normal 'life'. Some weeks are easier than others, but for the most part, they are all good.
Things are going well with R. He & his DS are coming to spend this holiday weekend with us. Ladybug is very excited about meeting his DS. She's all about the kids. Although, she has been back on a "I wish you & Daddy were back together" kick for the last couple of weeks. I don't know if something specific has triggered it, , not as far as I can tell.
She did mention the other night that the latest Drac ho said that I'm a cool mom. UGH. It was all I could do not to make a face or a sound
I'm trying to be positive about that,,,at least she's not bad mouthing me to my kids. Ladybug went on to ask if the ho & I are/will be friends. I said no. I'm sure she's a nice person, but we will not be friends. Her 'friendship' and enabling of the A between Drac & HO #1 will forever prevent my thinking 'good thoughts' about her. Besides, who takes sloppy seconds from their 'friend'???
Drac was at Ladybug's softball game last night. The first I've seen him in a while. He made attempts to be nice & friendly. I responded in a basic way, but then dismissed him as I would someone who just isn't part of my world. He was nice enough to move my chair & cooler when I wasn't there for a few minutes. I simply said thanks and then set up my chair down the row a ways from him. He tried several times to catch my eye during the game when Ladybugs did good things. I did not respond in kind.
Today he emailed about a couple of schedule things. I gave my most brief reply. He responded with a thanks and went on to say
"Wasn't last night fun? Those girls learned so much from last year. Ladybug has improved so much and she seems to be having a lot of fun".
WTF? Mr. Friendly Co-Parent again? I don't want to engage with him like that.
Is that wrong of me? Is it a bad sign that I can't do that?
bugs, I think you are doing great! I would not change a single thing about the way you respond to him.
I think your exchanges with Drac are just how they need to be. He is still poison as no REAL apology or restitution has been made.
If you stand too close, he will leak on you.
Is that wrong of me? Is it a bad sign that I can't do that?
Absolutely not. If his overtures and reachouts were heartfelt, then yes, maybe you could consider "friendly" co-parenting. But they aren't. The only time he gets "friendly" is when he needs something from you. Even if it is as simple as making life easier on him. Who wouldn't want to be "friendly" and be able to forget everything that has transpired?
Just get over it, Bugs.
'course, I always tend to be on the hardass side of the options.
Ladybugs may not get it now, but one day she will realize why being friends with the current ho isn't good for you. Yes, it would be "easier" if everyone could just smile and be happy - but real life isn't easy. Ladybugs is seeing a valuable lesson she will recognize when she is older. You don't HAVE to sacrifice your own well-being for the sake of making life easy for someone who has done you wrong.
You are a grand example of a successful woman.
Take care and enjoy your new life!
Fox
Bugs, you haven't posted since May. How are YOU?
Hey Queenie!
I'm good, thanks! I may not have posted since MAY,,,but lo and behold I clicked on to find I was still logged in! LOL!! Talk about LURKING!! ha!
Kids are good & healthy. Drac is still Drac and up to his same old same old. I am still seeing R and it's good. Work is nuts. All in all it's pretty darn good in my world.
Not much time this morning,,,,,just saying Hi and Welcome Back to All!
Have a great weekend!
Hey Bugs!! Good to hear that everything is going well. There IS life after D!!!!
Thought I'd update the post title since I now get my first real post in since May!
So, where to begin? First, I'm glad to see some updates from some Amigos. Hope I haven't missed all of the updates! Any of you not yet checked in since the 'crash', please take a second and check in. Would love to hear how ya'll are doing!
From my persepctive, I've done a great deal of improvement in letting go of Drac 'stuff'. R is very sensitive in this area and has called me on a few things. Such as how I react when I react to my interpretation of how Drac treats the kids, his pushing them off on others, not knowing what church a neigbor is taking them to, his not allowing DSS to get any driving time with him, etc.
We have had several talks about this. I fully owned up to several points that R has made and have made a concerted effort to let go of it. The other thing that seems to bother R is that he does not think I stand up to Drac enough,,,that I allow him a 'pass' rather than confronting him on things about the kids.
The truth is that R and I have 2 totally opposing personalities in many ways. He is a 'confront & conquer' guy. We have talked about this and I've told R of the times that I felt he has been out of line in dealing with his Ex. The good news is that he ASKED for my opinion and while he didn't necessarily agree, I have seen some positive changes.
I am a 'go at it gently first' kinda gal. I've explained that I see no value in being confrontational when nothing I say is going to change Drac's perceptions or actions. For me, this has been part of letting go. I recognize the futility of these kinds of interactions & what they haven taken out of me in the past. As long as in the end, DD gets what she needs who cares what Drac thinks of me or anything else? Not to mention that any efforts on DSS's behalf have always proven unproductive & sometimes given way to more difficulties for DSS, which is the last thing he needs!
I think what bothers R is that he has perceived my getting upset about issues with Drac equates to continued FEELINGS for Drac. Perhaps there is a bit of truth to that, but it's the could have been/should have been/leftover feelings, not the 'I'm still in love with him' feelings.
Honestly if we were to measure the 'intensity' of feelings (good or bad) when it comes to each of our ex's, R wins on that - - but in a totally negative way. Which, could also be perceived as still having TOO much emotion/feeling. Fortunately for us, I don't see it that way.
So, we are working though it all, a little at a time.
Now that I've started,,,there is a lot I realize I could post about! Unfortunately, time constraints are against me yet again today. I wanted to be sure to get this bit in for now for Fox. Hope that helps a little.
Perhaps next time I can talk about how I, too, battle with the 'competition' with Drac & Ho2. It's getting better but is still a struggle. Good news on that is that they do more damage to themselves in the eyes of the kids than anyone else could ever hope to do 'to' them in that regard. Bad news is that it takes time and ultimately is not really a good thing for the kids (something we can't control either!)
Hope everyone has a Happy Safe Halloween! I'm hoping the rain will stop since I don't have my Daisy Duck costume ready for tonight!!
Bugs your strength continues to amazing and leave me in awe. You are such a Goddess on your willingness to look at reality yourself, be introspective of your motives etc.
And who is Miss Daisy Duck? Ladybugs or MommyBugs.
Bugs,
Face it, we will probably always have feelings for our exWH, so we might as well own it learn to live with it. At least I'm sure that I will. I thought I didn't until I saw him this week and that changed things a little. What it boils down to is that he is my family and I don't think that will change, at least not at this age and after such a long term M because I really don't know much else. I own it and it's OK. Does that mean I would recover? Maybe, under the right circumstances, but I know he would never create those circumstances because they are up to him to create. Anyway, you get my drift. I'm sometimes just not good at explaining things.
You have done fantastic over the last year, and there is no doubt whatsoever that you will grow into your own, be comfortable in your own skin, and make a new path for your life. In a way, Drac will be in it, but like a teenager that just drifts along. I'm not sure he is capable of advancing beyond the maturity level where he is stuck now. Think of him mentally stuck in the state of a 17 year old, then you'll know how to deal with him.
Hope to see you next week!!!!
Thanks Queenie for those kind words. It means so much coming from someone who I would describe with those same words!
I didn't dress up this year for Halloween - the first year since Ladybugs was 2 that we didn't do a 'theme' or matching costumes. That's ok. At 9, Mom starts to be a bit embarassing in those situations!
Chai, sweetie I am sorry I didn't get in touch or make it by your place this week. :(Things got a little crazy with work and the time got away from me. Am hoping to be able to visit around the holidays when I have more time & am 'off' work.
Work is busy with 2 tough weeks of travel coming up. I hate being away from Ladybugs so much, but not much can be done about it. With schedule changes, we will have an entire week together so I'm trying to look on the positive side of things!
R & I had some serious discussions this weekend. The kind in which we are speaking specifics about our future together.
I am sure of my love for him. For whatever reason, I am surprised by his love for me. I did not realize until this weekend the truth & depth of it.
Going down that path would not be easy. There are significant obstacles to overcome with resolving the issue of location, Ladybugs, family, etc. There's little doubt in my mind as to the reaction from Drac. I don't even want to get started on that subject right now.
Instead, I'm trying to take it one bridge crossing at a time. The first is a serious discussion of specific MB principles. We've discussed most of the basic principles in conversations, but I've not offically introduced him to MB. The time has arrived to cross that bridge. I am starting by giving him a copy of the Basic Concepts. I hope that he sees how much of it we have already discussed informally & how they mirror what we have already determined to be important parts of our relationship. If we make it across that bridge still being on the same page, then I'll worry about the next bridge. Honestly, I'm not really what I'd even call 'worried'. I think he already 'gets' it.
I hope to catch up on threads over the next couple of days, and no later than the weekend. Hope everyone is well!
Chai, sweetie I am sorry I didn't get in touch or make it by your place this week. :(Things got a little crazy with work and the time got away from me.
Am hoping to be able to visit around the holidays when I have more time & am 'off' work.
Howdy doody, Bugsy.
From my persepctive, I've done a great deal of improvement in letting go of Drac 'stuff'. R is very sensitive in this area and has called me on a few things. Such as how I react when I react to my interpretation of how Drac treats the kids, his pushing them off on others, not knowing what church a neigbor is taking them to, his not allowing DSS to get any driving time with him, etc.
We have had several talks about this. I fully owned up to several points that R has made and have made a concerted effort to let go of it. The other thing that seems to bother R is that he does not think I stand up to Drac enough,,,that I allow him a 'pass' rather than confronting him on things about the kids.
I'm getting better at my reaction to most of the crapola WxH does or doesn't do, too. Mostly, it's just the thoughts of "what an arese he's being again", or "typical WxH behavior." I don't have the need to point it out to him or tell everyone what a jerk he is. We all know. And I have no control over it.
That's great that you and R can talk about it, have differing opinions, and each of you take into consideration what the other has said and modify behavior if it seems warranted. How darn grownup of you!
HRG never says what he thinks of my interactions with WxH. He knows I keep them very limited, strictly to DDs, and that I think WxH is an absolute [censored]. He knows I'm more of an avoider than a push over. If I have a differing attitude ("if", yeah, right)......from WxH, he knows I'll just avoid WxH to stay out of conflict, yet still have my way because essentially I do now control everything WxH wants from me.
That's not very grownup of me, but how I deal for the time being. I don't contact WxH at all, so whenever WxH contacts me, he needs something from me. Which gives me the power.
Flippity flip - take THAT, WxH.
I think HRG is a HUGE pushover with his WxW. I haven't addressed it for the most part because I don't feel it's my place to tell him how to deal with her. If he wants to give in, that's his choice. However, it does effect how I feel about him to a certain degree. I lose some respect anytime I hear a conversation between the two of them.
Early on, I asked him why he lets her treat him that way, that he doesn't have to let her scream and cuss and tell him what he should do. I think he shut that kind of behavior down, but she is still bossy as holy heck. And you know what I think of people demanding their way.......
If we were to ever get married or take our relationship further, this would have to be addressed. Because by her bossing him, she would be bossing me..........
Thanks for your thoughts, Bugs, it does help. Helps keeps my eyes open for things that need to be addressed when/if the relationship goes any further.
Fox
R & I had some serious discussions this weekend. The kind in which we are speaking specifics about our future together. I am sure of my love for him. For whatever reason, I am surprised by his love for me. I did not realize until this weekend the truth & depth of it.
Oh, WOW, Bugs! That just warms me up. I am so happy for you.
You are so wise in how you are beginning this road to your future. Obstacles, yes. Barricades, no. We are all rooting for you.
Fox
Hey Ms Foxxy!
Good to hear from you!
I don't have the need to point it out to him or tell everyone what a jerk he is. We all know. And I have no control over it.
Excellent, Cowgirl, that's a BIG realization!! Well, atleast it was for me & one that I've really done better with just recently. I have to admit to having to thank R for that. He really helped me see how MY reactions looked from the outside. I was, frankly, embarassed when I saw it through a different set of eyes!!
I think it was then that I was better able to also see my relationship with R more clearly. For the first time I was WILLING to see things differently. It's been a whole new world since then, and I'm happy to say a good one!
I don't contact WxH at all, so whenever WxH contacts me, he needs something from me. Which gives me the power.
Flippity flip - take THAT, WxH.
You go Girl!
Seriously, I understand this, too. Drac barely contacts, but when he does it is out of a 'need' that is usually quite ridiculous. This week he had requested we flip days for Ladybugs as he had "work" obligations.
Guess what? A big ol' lie.
He took the week off & took the latest ho out of town for a concert.
Whatever. Spending $ he doesn't have & manipulating everyone to get what he wants. No real surprise there, now is it? As Chai so aptly put it, it's like dealing with a 17 year old. I'm just relieved it's no longer my 'problem'.
Well, it's not as if I'll get off scot free in that area. I WILL have to go thru DSS and Ladybugs going thru that phase of life, but I'm confident THEY will grow out of it!
As for my being 'wise' in this relationship, all I can say it that we are TRYING. He's agreed to read the MB stuff I gave him, and that's a good thing. I just gave it to him yesterday, so he hasn't had a chance to read anything yet.
However, as I said, we've informally had discussion around the Basic Concepts. He made me promise this last weekend that we would always be HONEST. Well, a stange situation put that to the test today. Without having read MB, he did VERY well. It centered around an internet situation and the VERY first thing he did was offer to give me his password.
I realize we are in the 'in love' phase right now. Beyond those obviously wonderful feelings, I am thrilled that he is willing to talk about what it takes to make it work beyond that & that much of it is coming naturally. It's not something he's done before & has talked very openly about his personal failures in his previous relationships,,,,and how he wants to do it better/right this time.
As with all things, time will tell. Expect future posts as I stuggle thru some Ladybugs issues. She's okay, but I see we have a lot to deal with in the future & I want VERY much to do it right. I'll be counting on all of you to help me out! Okay???
Need to try to get some sleep. Work's a b*tch & tomorrow promises to be a BIG one!
Have a great weekend, all!
Bugsy:
Glad things are moving along for you!
(((Bugsy)))
LG
Bugs,
I guess if there is one positive thing that comes out of this, it's that we now all know how to have a good relationship the next time around. This isn't the way all of us wanted to learn though.
You rock.
Hi Bugs!
Hey Bugs,
Just driving by to check on you. Let us know how you're doing...
Hi, Bugsy!
There's little doubt in my mind as to the reaction from Drac. I don't even want to get started on that subject right now.
Oh, but I do. If and when things progress to the knot-tying point with R, will you promise to videotape Drac's reaction when you inform him? With some advance notice, I could probably make myself available to do the videotaping. I think watching his face would be more fun than whacking him in the crotch with a shovel.
Hey Guy Smiley! So GREAT to see you around this week!! Waiting for a real update from you,,,,,,,
Thanks for checking in, Chai!
Wish I had great stuff to post, but not so much this week. Work has been kicking my behind. Too much travel. Too much stress. Thought it was going to wind down this week with my annual presentation to the VP being completed & finally getting the contract for the biggest deal of my life.
VP presentation - Done - Succesful -
Contract - due Friday - worked to 6 last night - Have to wait til Monday -
Last weekend was a great birthday party for Ladybugs Sat & sleepover Sat night -
R came in last Friday night -
But was not himself & something was 'off'
Turns out he was thinking of ending things - that the long distance is getting too hard
We talked about it and there's no doubt that there is love between us
Sunday was WONDERFUL!!
We agreed to work on ways to fix the distance thing, and it included the possibility that he moves here. Of course, that means we need to find a job for him. I started checking on Monday & found a possibility right off that bat that looked like a great fit! We exchanged lots of text/calls until I left for business on Tues.
Then Tues night, he looked at my FB page & sees that my status says 'single'. I hadn't even looked at my profile since I put it up long ago. He was upset, and I can't blame him for it. I then made a HUGE mistake by changing it to say 'its' complicated'. It never occurred to me that such a status would exist, and I thought it was funny, based on the conversations we'd just had around the fact that our sitch IS complicated.
He took TOTAL offense to that. He thinks that it's a way to let everyone know I'm unhappy & perhaps available????????
While I can understand it may be mis-understood by the world in general, would you think that was what I was saying?? Please, be honest - - especially you guys.
Anyway, that combined with other things, now has him questioning if we should stay together.
It's SO strange. One minute he's flipping out about my FB status & saying that I'm 'unemotional' about us, the next he's saying how much he loves me, has never loved anyone like this, and if we were in the same town, he'd marry me tomorrow.
UGH!!
I know I'm leaving out a LOT of detail here, but honestly, I am TOO exhausted to go very far into it. I haven't slept a decent night's sleep in waaaay too long!
Today, am going out to re-organize my garage. Had to have the bug man treat out there, and it was already a mess from having the garage fixed & siding put on the house. The good thing is that I can then get out my winter/Christmas stuff and know where it all is!
I am hoping that I can physically exhaust myself enough today to sleep tonight!
Hope everyone has a good weekend!
Bugsmom, sure sounds like there is something more underneath this whole FB uproar. Is he normally this sensitive? Is he thinking you have someone else in the wings?
Bugs,
I've been thinking about this and I agree that something just isn't adding up here. I agree with FF in that there is something more underneath this. It almost sounds like he is looking for a reason to break up with you, but I hope that isn't the case.
Man, reading about your sitch is exactly what scares me about getting into another relationship. UGH. This almost reminds me of being a teenager again.
I don't have any words of wisdom because I have not dated for, oh, about 40 years now. The only thing I can say is don't rush into anything. Remember, just as in affair, you are in the stage where those brain chemicals are going crazy so don't make any long term decision just yet.
HOw'd you sleep last night?
Hooray on your work accomplishments! Hooray on your mommy duties!
Turns out he was thinking of ending things - that the long distance is getting too hard
Why do they do this? Why do "they" so only one path? Why don't "they" have a discussion and find alternatives? Instead of deciding this doesn't work, why can't they say "lets do this differently?"
Ugh.
We agreed to work on ways to fix the distance thing,
Well, there ya go. And I'm glad that he is willing to make some adjustments in his own life. Many times it feels like it is OUR responsiblity to uproot everything and everyone. I'm glad he is considering doing it himself.
Then Tues night, he looked at my FB page & sees that my status says 'single'. I hadn't even looked at my profile since I put it up long ago. He was upset, and I can't blame him for it. I then made a HUGE mistake by changing it to say 'its' complicated'. It never occurred to me that such a status would exist, and I thought it was funny, based on the conversations we'd just had around the fact that our sitch IS complicated.
He took TOTAL offense to that. He thinks that it's a way to let everyone know I'm unhappy & perhaps available????????
While I can understand it may be mis-understood by the world in general, would you think that was what I was saying?? Please, be honest - - especially you guys.
I, too, have a FB page, but very very seldom update it. I don't think it's any big deal that your status was single on a page that you very seldom access. Your relationship is in real life - not on the internet.
No, I wouldn't think that is what you are saying you are available. My FB page says complicated. I have children, I was betrayed, ANY relationship outside of that is going to be complicated. In reality, ALL relationships are complicated to some degree.
Has he been cheated on? I see this as a little bit of insecurity and distrust.
If he hasn't been, maybe he doesn't realize that many BS' seem unemotional because it's pretty scary to risk that again when we have experienced the trauma of an affair. We feel, we just hide it well.
I don't really know what to think of it. Maybe he is confused. Loves you, but can't see the BIG picture? Loves you, but is unsastisfied with the relationship as the travel doesn't let either of you really fill the EN, but doesn't really know what to do to fix it so the easiest thing to do is end it?
I don't know.
Ask him.
How's the garage coming?
Fox
Bugsy, long distance is tough work to say the least. I know that I now find it very important to know that I am AZman's one and only. If I saw his FB page (which he doesn't have anymore) and it stated anything other than 'in a relationship' I would have something to say.
You two are living on the edge of a razor. He's considering moving there to be with you, his whole life changed. Try to understand the kind of pressure that puts on a person. It's huge. He needs strong words, strong love and strong commitment.
Yes, his REACTION was off, but for the right reasons. Long distance relationships can be crazy making. Reassure him that you are his one and only, that you will change the FB listing. Apologize for the shortsightedness. I know YOU thought it was cute and funny, but he didn't, and that's what you are dealing with. It's too little of an issue not to concede.
Just my $.03.
Bugs
...a relationship, by it's very nature, is a rollercoaster ride....
...and Bugs, if you 'survived an affair' (one of the toughest rides ever) and have learned such things as: it helps to 'hold on to the arm bars', or 'make sure the security belt is on tight enough'....
I KNOW you can and will handle this.
Now, how can we help you realize that, too?
How about if you think of us all cheering each other on, lovingly nudging each other to walk our journey fearlessly, and yet watchful for possible hidden 'mines'(sharing and learning together how to identify
and disactive them!
) ...
...and Bugs,
...although Fox has a point, and that the best way to get some clarity is to:
It sounds to me at this time he may not have the answer...and will need some HELP with 'unearthing' to see what's 'underneath' it all.... which is often surprisingly different from what one expects
!
I had another thought, provoked by SL.
Maybe we're just thinkin' on it too much. One of the keys that Harley promotes is to never be the cause of our significant others unhappiness.
So.
Change it.
I'd explain why you had what you had and let him know your perception was different than his but you are more than willing to change it now that you understand where he is coming from.
You don't have to agree - you just understand and don't want to cause him unhappiness. KWIM??
Fox
Then, Foxy, we are on the same wavelength, because as I was typing i was thinking that Bugsy should NOT be the cause of pain for R. We may not agree on a subject, but we must try to change how we treat others when they are in pain. It is THEIR perception that matters in the moment. You can explain yourself later, just stop the hurtin first.
Well, it's kinda a catch 22. Cause to some degree he was causing her pain by making an issue out of something that she really didn't intend. He just misunderstood her.
So, R, stop causin' our friend pain. Got it?
While it's admirable that she make the changes to the FB so that she is not causing him pain, I think it's important that she let him know that she too was caused pain by his reaction.
Umm, Miss Bugs Bomb, are you comin' back here or are we just going to keep talking about you?
Fox
I agree that they need to discuss this. I don't think you need to overanalyze where R is coming from, though. Reassurance is a good thing, and perhaps he needs it. His jumping the gun and talking about ending things is a knee jerk reaction to run away from the pain, IMO. Run away, run away...
Better to discuss this after he has time to quiet his head a bit.
Read your post on SL's thread.
So Bugs, what's up?
How about some news, Bugs?
How are you doing?
Hey Luna!
thanks for checking in. I'm doing well, thanks! I did a brief update a couple of days ago on my other thread. It's "A New Thread for Bugs" (I think!).
Check it out and let me know how you are doing!
Thanks for the info. Bugs. Will do!