WOW! I lost internet capability for a few days and look what happens??!!

You all crack me up! I'm fine. I've been a Good Girl - well, for the most part.

I am offically not MAD at anyone!! Just unable to post.

Sorry!

Ok, so a few 'business' type emails from/to Drac. Nothing much to report.

Tonight I had to email about some Ladybugs daycare stuff, so I threw in some Ladybug 'boy' interaction stuff, then threw in an associated "memory" from our past. He emailed back, and bit big time on the memory comment. I took it a step again by way of email and then it was time for Ladybug to call him. After she was done talking to him, he asked to speak to me.

He commented about the personal memory part of the email, we joked about Ladybug and the 'boys', and then we talked quite a while about work stuff. I did TONS of admiration. TONS. Nothing over the top, and all very sincere. Then, I asked what he was doing & he said opening mail. I replied, "one of my least favorite jobs".

He said, "I know you don't want to hear this, but I keep getting a certain person's mail. I just throw it in the trash. Most of it is all COLLECTIONS notices; I got bills from the "local power company" and paid them. They werent' mine, now they are sending refund checks, but it's in someone else's name, but it's MY money. I want to just sign them and cash them."

I replied, "Well, I think she's cost EVERYONE enough already. What's a little more in the $$ department as compared to the Total Cost? The last thing you need to do is cash them and get arrested for fraud. Consider it part of the Total Cost of the entire situation."

He didn't reply other than to say he was going to also throw the checks in the trash. Sorry, no sympathy from me on that. AND, it was clear from him tone & the way he framed his response that he Totally caught my meaning.

So we chatted for a bit longer and , we ended up with a light hearted joke and that was it.

LG, I love the posts that you shared. At the RIGHT time, they will be Perfect to share with Drac. Right now, though, Mimi is right in that it would be me trying to 'educate' him. If/when he acknowledges he's open to learning, those are going to be priceless. Thank you!!

As for you crazy :RollieEyes: emtiocon addicts I love ya'll! I can't tell you how great it felt to get back on here and see you all going "at it" in my absence!

Mimi - I DO know what you are saying. I'm not trying to educate, DJ, or think he's incapable of any thing. He does need to lead, but he needs a bit of 'encouragement' to know that I am sincere and to see for himself that things are different now.

As you say, breaking the old patterns! yet, keeping enough of the 'good' things to remind him what was good in the first place.

In talking about Ladybug, he said, "she's YOUR daughter" when I commented about 2 different little boys coming by tonight to play with her. He said, "She can have anyone she wants and just wraps them around her little finger". I laughed, and after denying that she was like me in that regard, I said "well, maybe you are right. She IS like me in that even if there are several choices, she KNOWS what she wants and there is always that special ONE that means the most to her. She knows what she REALLY wants." Our exchange following was about 'her' but he KNEW what I was talking about.

So,,,,,,,,,,,,that's what I've been up to - maybe good, maybe not. I'm ok with it no matter what you all may think,,,,,,,,,,,,but I AM terribly anxious to hear your thoughts and even more excited to see what Emoticons will go along with those thoughts!!

BTW - did I REALLY have lots of silences during Plan A? I felt like I posted hourly!! I still feel that way!

Bugsy:

We are going to have to call Mark1952 over her for some fishing lessons.

Your doing great.

I posted that info from Schoolbus in your thread because there will be a time for Drac to read it.

SB posted it to Not2L8, who returned home after moving out on lildoggie for a year. He has been here for a month and is still in withdrawal. It was timely for him. One thing to have in the quiver for Bugs when she needs it.



I put that one in, Well, because it was the only one NOT used.

LG

Man, so it wasn't all about ME?????

MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS..I'm losing MY POWER... :RollieEyes:

I'm GLAD to know that ALL is WELL!!

:MrEEk:

Its not that I dont think its cute and all, but Flick is mine, Not2L8 belongs to 2B1
Not2L8 thought much nmore highly of SB's post than Flick did.
Back to lurk.

Did somebody say "fishing?"

For tournament fishermen part of the trick is finding something that will get a fish to bite even when he isn't trying to eat.

This can be thought of as a trigger and can be a sound, a shape, a color, a motion or any combination of about a dozen things. When the right combination is found, the big ole bass comes out of his hiding place and snatches the bait and ends up in somebody's livewell on his way to the weigh-in table.

The trick is to find just the right combination...

But all this begs the question as to whether or not that is the right approach to this...

Maybe a bank fishing type of expedition is required here. Put out the bait , open up a lawn chair and have a beer...

Let the fish find you!

Here fishy fishy...

Mark

Well, after a bit more flirting via email last night, I emailed a more serious message and now I intend to retreat/withdraw back to more darkness.

I just told him that while I was very tempted to ask him over, I would rather have the drink & talk with him. As I had told him the other night on the phone, life is too short for me to not be totally honest about what is most important. I know what I want and what I need, and although I may be afraid, I want & need to be honest with him. I can get a piece of a$$ lots of places, but I want/need more than that with him.

I know it's a big risk. Timing may or may not be right. Yet, it is the truth. He will either rise to the occassion or he will walk away. Either way, I'll be fine. I have stated the truth, given him the opening, made it pretty darn obvious what I want, and now it's up to him.

As much as I enjoyed the 'fun' and games of the flirting, and I know it was depositing love units in his bank, it's time for Bugs to get some deposits in return. He is capable if he chooses.

So far, no reply.

I'm on my way to the airport shortly for a day trip. Hope flights are on time so I can get home later tonight.

Not going to mince words here..

Bugsy.. I'm worried about you.

I may be missing something here, and am fully willing to admit, given the fact that I'm way behind you in this whole sordid mess and may never even get to where you are.. but as someone who cares I don't want to just stay quiet about my concerns.

Please please please read carefully what Mimi, LG, and others have been saying. I know Steve told you that you'd have to do some coaxing but after reading the recent exchanges I still 'feel' like you're leading this way too much. Instead of luring him in with enticing offers, I'm concerned that if things keep going in this fashon he's going to feel like a lamb being ushered through the chutes and as he gets closer his fear and uncertainty is going to mount.

This is still a marathon, not a sprint.. I don't want to see you force this and end up in a false recovery.. I don't want to see Drac go back to fence sitting and HURTING Bugsy or confusing Ladybugs.. Just like you, I want to see a COMMITTED H return to you and your family, but just like giving up ANY addiction, he has to WANT it, otherwise it won't stick..

I admire your strength and courage in trying this.. but you don't have to power lift the entire recovery process.. Drac is going to have to do his share.. and right now it -seems- to me that he's laying back and letting you make all the decisions.. letting you set the table AND cook the dinner AND clean the dishes afterwards.. Why? Because you aren't giving him the CHOICE to WANT it.. I just don't want to see you give away the farm to someone who isn't going to go till the field without being told to.. I don't want to see you end up in a relationship where you ALWAYS have to dangle the carrot to MAKE HIM WANT to do the right thing for you and Ladybugs..

I'm just worried for you Bugsy.. and I hope hope hope I'm wrong here.. but please, at least go back and read what the others are telling you here, and then look at the context of your communications with Drac.. I'm sure there's a lot we aren't seeing.. but from what I am able to read.. it feels to me almost like you're pulling him along, rather than encouraging him to walk with you.

Just my un-asked-for $.02

OOOO, Girl, you just took a HUGE leap, 0 to 60 in 5 seconds flat! Sounds like you are in manager position.

NOW, the best thing you can do is get QUIET. NO matter how long it takes for a response, get QUIET. Stay cool, Bugsy.

Not trying to harp on things here Bugsy.. but look here at what you wrote.

I think we all know that the 'luring back' process really is another Plan A in dealing with a WS in withdrawl.. and he IS in withdrawl and on the rebound here.. (I could be wrong here.. Mimi, feel free to smack me if I am)

This.. what you wrote above.. is your 'taker' talking.

All,

Thanks for the concerns - I see what you are saying and the reasons for your concerns.

I am happy with my action. He has replied he is wanting to re-build our friendship. He knows he needs to work on himself and his relationship with his kids and being 'single' with life relationships on hold for now. He said he should have done that when we separated, but he didn't. He can't change that now, and what's done is done.

That is ok with me.

I am fine.

I am happy to sit back and live my life. I have no expecations. I don't see this leading to recovery. I could be wrong someday, but maybe not. Either way, I'm feeling good.

I wish I could explain. Yes, maybe it was me 'managing', but I didn't/don't see it that way. Perhaps that is work for me to continue with. I needed, for my own sake, to set my path better. I was obcessing about him, his thoughts, his needs, his wants, his this, his that. All wrong stuff.

I need to be thinking about Bugs, Bugs thoughts, Bugs needs, Bugs everything.

I know that I can't be his 'friend'. It would hurt too much. I don't want to just be 'civil' with him. I am not capable of that right now, I am still in love with him. Way too much in love with him. Having him be nice to me just stirs those love feelings. I don't want him angry and cruel,,,,,,but too friendly isn't going to work for me either.

So,,,,,,,,,,,,,I don't know what to say. I did what I did. I am ok with it. Beat me all you want, question my motives, say I was wrong. I'm not going to question it now. I just want to move forward.

Hey Bugsy.. I really wasn't trying to beat up on you.

Really hope you know that.


Not really sure what to say at this point other than to reassure you that we are all behind you 100%.

Nobody's beating you up, Bugsy. We care for you, that's all, and are outsiders looking in to a situation that some of us have been thru before, and want to pass on our hard earned wisdom. It's not about right and wrong, it's about timing and about personal change.

You wanted an answer in your time, so that you could drop it or move forward, or whatever term you apply. It's EARLY yet with Drac, and he's fuzzy headed. You jumped the gun, and the response you got is one that happens when push comes to shove. You STILL have no idea where he really stands.

IMO, backing off is the best thing for you. Putting the focus back on you is what is best. Do not consider Drac in any decisions having to do with you alone, or with your time with the kids. I could hear you obsessing with him. It's not healthy for you, Bugsy.

Much love to you, Bugsy. I know this is not what you wanted to hear right now. Perhaps just taking a break from this, reevaluating your approach. Slow your roll, enjoy your life, your kids.

Good morning, Bugs!

(and the rest of you Emoticonographil wannabes)

Trying to write without emoticons is like not talking with your hands. I just can't do it.

First off - ---->> <<----- in regards to schoolbus' post.

Absolutely amazing. How could you NOT feel something after reading that? Oh yea, I guess those with scar tissue obstructing the "reasoning" portion of the brain may have trouble.

I ain't naming any names here.



I really don't have any advice for you, Bugs, as I've never been in your shoes.

I do know I would have trouble not accepting crumbs from WxH. When he's nice, I can't help but be nice back and over accommodating.

I was thinking about that the other day. WHY can I fight with him by email or in court but as soon as his voice is in my ear, I give in - without much coaxing.

I think, for me, it's because emails and court are purely WxH. That is someone I can fight and enjoy every single moment of it.

It's his voice.

His voice.

His voice brings back a man from the dead, the memories and feelings come rushing back. A man I grieved for, a man I loved more than myself, a man I still desperately miss when I'm alone in bed at night, a man I still yearn for closure with.

The reasoning part of me knows with no uncertainty that he cannot (aka will not) be the man that I need and deserve.

But the old me who didn't know better....misses what I thought I had.

Just be careful, Bugs. We love ya and don't want to see you hurt at his hand. He has that power, and we know that waywards are fickle.

Fox

Yes, yes, yes!

This is exactly it...the Wayward, after D, would like to continue having all their needs met by anyone possible. They would like to maintain a friendship with their ex-spouse and be able to date. It is important to let him know this is not a possibility with you, you deserve more.

You have shown him the ivy-covered wall, shown him the gate, cleared it away, and opened it. Now it is time to be clear about the admission charge that comes to letting him in again..
and you said it VERY succintly in your last post...

It hurts too much and you harbor too much hope for you to be friends with him only to find out down the road he is dating again...and no, it is not enough for him to tell you he is not dating *now*, that just means it is a possibility in the future.

Co-parenting does not include talking on the phone about anything other than emergencies.

I know the fear, if you ask him point-blank if he would like to renew a committed relationship with you, then he could say no...and if he says no...then what? Then that is it, back to dark.

If he says yes, then the hard part comes in.

I understand why this limbo is a safe place...but not serving you, other than as a station between two places...

That's why Plan B is so critical.

Slight threadjack -- My daughter is going through a terrible ordeal right now with the father of her children/STBX boyfriend. She is essentially Plan B'ng him, except she wants no recovery, and she told me, "Mom, I'm fine but I know the minute I hear his "voice", I'll cave."

I remember experiencing that as well. That sweet-talking devil (my FWH) could get to me so easy if he could just get me to hear his voice.

Anyways, threadjack over.

Bugs, I bet you're a terrible poker player (or an outstanding one with your least expected moves)

You essentially have shown your hand and given him back the power. I hate that for you because we all know from your Plan A experiences that DRAC is a famous cake-eater. He wants to be friends, possibly friends-with-benefits.

What's said is said though. Girl, you're tough. You put it out there. Kinda like putting the question of recovery out of it's misery. Making it quick and painless (we hope).

... watching for the next move

You're right. It gives you a chance to shore up those walls and gain strength and truly "see" some of the manipulation in that voice.


Yup, and they know this.

Some of my favorite memories of him center around the sound/feel of his voice. Laying with my head on his chest as he talked or sang with a song on the radio, feeling the rumble through me more than actually hearing the words.

Or dancing in the living room to the radio, for no reason other than to touch each other and be close. Being close enough to feel his voice as he quietly sang.

It was the one place I could rest and find comfort, closing out the rest of the world.

(This icon needs some work, too. This one is bawling - and I don't bawl. More of a silent weeper or a lump in the throat being held back - that might be kinda hard for an emoticon. Bummer.)



'tis no more.

And I need to not allow the memories to color my judgement of the present. Easier said then done, but at least I've recognized it.

Hugs to your DD - it's a tough thing to fight. Essentially, you are fighting YOURSELF.

/threadjack

Fox

Bugs,


...I think Fox is 'right on the money'!


...uhmmm....BTW Fox and others...

I am also part of the club of those having a very BIG issue with hearing WS's 'voice'! :RollieEyes: and, of course, he knows it, too!

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((BUGS)))))))))))))))))))))

The whole voice thing is why I do not communicate by phone at all. I've only spoken to the Z a couple of times since he left. Most of our communique is by email. That voice is far too familiar, and I become EMOTIONAL (and not just those happy wappy feelings, but ALL of them at once) when I hear it.

It's best for me to NOT hear him speak, so that I can keep my head clear and focused.

Good for you Bugsy!

Sounds like he was trying to order the "friends with benefits" and you had to let him know that wasn't on the menu.

So...go on with your life. Keep your pace. Maybe he will catch up (and catch on...) but if not -- then you know you have done all that you can do.

Never in a million years would we encourage you to accept one inch less than you deserve.

So -- keep moving on. MCD? Just askin....