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Well a good time was had by all last night. My friend has found someone that I think is a perfect fit for her! I am so happy for her! In fact, his BF was there & of course, I ended up spending most of the night talking with him. He told he he'd warned his friend already,,,,,she's perfect for you! hurray

I hope it all works out for her. It's nice to see a new relationship in those beginning stages. It gives me hope. I am definately getting her HN/HN and FIL/SIL for Christmas!! grin

I didn't get home until 3:30 am! Lordy it's been a long time since I've been out that late! I was up and ready for church this morning despite the late night. I am surprised I'm not more exhausted than I feel right now. I am sure it will hit me later - - - especially after all of the yard work I have to do today. I'm just waiting for some laundry to finish in the dryer.

Well, I opened Drac's email and read the entire message. His 'nice' offer to let me have the kids for the holiday weekend seems to be more of a convenience for him. Turns out he as a wedding to go to next Sat. and he's "sure the kids would not be too excitged to go to that."

I'm supposed to let him know if I want them for a 'family lake trip'. Oh, and he needs to know what money he owes me for all of the 'extras' lately. I gave him an update a week or so ago.

I have news for him - it's his holiday weekend and I have other plans. He needs to take the kids with him to the wedding. There's no reason not to.

Oy,,,I wish I could shake the feeling of 'needing' to do something. I really just want to ask him WHY did you call me that night and tell me all that stuff? WHAT is it that you want???

Instead, I'm going outside to exhaust myself with work, then it's a jump in the pool and perhaps a nice nap!!



BS (me)
ExWS -Drac
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D Day 11/06
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Hi Bugs,

Well you certainly have the patience of I don't know who, but it's strong. Last night in my meeting, one of the guys was talking about never asking for patience because he can be assured G-d will put think in his life that teaches him patience.

OY is right. These waywards are absolutely mind boggling how they operate. Too much drama for me I am finding. I like the peace of not having WH in my head or his activities known to me.

I'm so pulling for you and love reading what's happening.

The pool? Yes, President Goddess, you deserve the relaxation.


BS 52, FWH 53, Married 1-1-84
D-day 5-14-07, WH moved in with OW
Plan A 9 months, DARK Plan B 3-17-08 until 3-2-09
WH and OW broke up 1-09
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Hi Bugs,

Glad to hear you enjoyed your night out... cool

Quote
Well, I opened Drac's email and read the entire message. His 'nice' offer to let me have the kids for the holiday weekend seems to be more of a convenience for him. Turns out he as a wedding to go to next Sat. and he's "sure the kids would not be too excitged to go to that."

I think it's a good 'read', Bugs....

Quote
...I have news for him - it's his holiday weekend and I have other plans. He needs to take the kids with him to the wedding. There's no reason not to.

Oh yes there is! Bugs...just a thought....if you don't take the kids...don't EXPECT him to take them with him necessarily....he may only have to find another 'solution' on who could take care of the kids (..giving you FIRST option, since you are the EASIEST!)...because if he really doesn't want to take them....he WON'T! ...but that still should not be your problem.... he needs to find other 'solutions' and learn to make other arrangements (and learn NOT to count on Bugs all the time)...you just need to be OK with this possibility..

...I am speaking from experience, Bugs!

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Oy,,,I wish I could shake the feeling of 'needing' to do something. I really just want to ask him WHY did you call me that night and tell me all that stuff? WHAT is it that you want??? Instead, I'm going outside to exhaust myself with work, then it's a jump in the pool and perhaps a nice nap!!

Good!... and if not...get right back here...and talk to US...if you absolutely FEEL you need to do SOMETHING!

....and of course.... don't forget the password around here...

BREATHE :RollieEyes:


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I have news for him - it's his holiday weekend and I have other plans. He needs to take the kids with him to the wedding. There's no reason not to.

I suggest continue to take MOVES BACKWARDS..leaving him plenty of ROOM to MOVE FORWARD..so a brief response: "Sorry, I already have plans for the weekend"...He will make suitable arrangements for the kids. He's gonna keep you PARENTNG for the weekend...while he plays..there's no guarantee that he will go to a wedding once he's FREE... :RollieEyes:

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I'm supposed to let him know if I want them for a 'family lake trip'.

Is this any of "HIS BUSINESS"? I know I'm not knowledgeable about DIVORCE RULES but this seems to be an INTRUSION into YOUR LIFE...The BOUNDARIES seem to be SLIPPING..where he is keeping close tabs on YOUR SCHEDULE and he is giving the semblance that YOU know HIS..that gives me the CREEPS...ICK..


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I wish I could shake the feeling of 'needing' to do something. I really just want to ask him WHY did you call me that night and tell me all that stuff? WHAT is it that you want???

HE NEEDS TO DO THE WORK!! NOTHING IS KEEPING HIM FROM DOING WHAT HE NEEDS TO SAY AND TO DO!! Well, nothing but HE IS NOT CHOOSING TO DO WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO!!

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Instead, I'm going outside to exhaust myself with work, then it's a jump in the pool and perhaps a nice nap!!

EXACTLY..KEEP THE FOCUS ON YOURSELF!! YOU CAN ONLY CONTROL YOURSELF!!


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Quote
!)...because if he really doesn't want to take them....he WON'T! ...but that still should not be your problem.... he needs to find other 'solutions' and learn to make other arrangements (and learn NOT to count on Bugs all the time)...you just need to be OK with this possibility..

Oh I absolutely expect him to find other arrangements and not to take them to the wedding. He is perfectly capable of doing that and I have no doubt that he will. He offered to me first because 1. it was easiest and 2. it makes him appear to be Mr Friendly CoParent

Whatever

The way his email read it was "I don't know what plans you have for the weekend, but if you would like to have the kids for a family lake trip, that would be fine with me"


Seems like 1. an assumption that I'm doing something w/my family and 2. a bit of fishing to find out if that is the case. There's nothing in 'divorce' rules about him trying to find out about my plans,,,,,,,,,other than it's just plain & simple none of his business.

Yes, my response will be a simple, "I have plans". Nothing more is necessary.

Quote
NOTHING IS KEEPING HIM FROM DOING WHAT HE NEEDS TO SAY AND TO DO!! Well, nothing but HE IS NOT CHOOSING TO DO WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO!!

I disagree with this in a couple of ways. I think FEAR is stopping him for now. Fear of rejection, Fear of it being the same old/same old, Fear of further facing his actions, Fear of all of the hurdles we would need to overcome. And, he is Uneducated in the fact that this CAN be done & there is a way with people who can help us. He doesn't yet believe it's possible. All of that is standing in his way.

Now, it's his choice to reach out and remove those obstacles or find a way around them. I hope he chooses to do that. So, in that we are certainly in agreement that the next move is his. I hope that he figures that out and makes it.

Now, most of my chores are completed. It's pool time for an hour or so!


BS (me)
ExWS -Drac
DD 9
DSS 15
D Day 11/06
Divorced 10/01/07

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How can YOU assume that he is "FEARFUL" unless he has told you?

IF you WANT something BAD enough, if HE wants YOU bad enough, HE will make some KIND of MOVE.

I would think THAT is the MAN/HUSBAND that YOU want...someone that LONGS for YOU..someone who at least makes THE EFFORT..SOME EFFORT to ASK YOU what HE needs to do...

My H was/is PROUDFUL, too...

But I CAN say that he came to LONG for ME and WANT ME...



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How can YOU assume that he is "FEARFUL" unless he has told you?

I base this first on discussion I've had with Steve Harley. He spoke w/Drac last year and we discussed in detail during my last session Drac's session with him, as well as Drac's history and personality type. Steve was specific that it would take some coaxing and work on my part to get Drac to engage.

And, I am basing it on comments Drac made in our phone conversation. He KNOWS he deserves my wrath, my anger, my distrust. He acknowledged that. He's never 'recovered' any relationship in his life. He doesn't know how to do it and I think he's afraid to even ask me what would be necessary. As Lexxxy said the other day, I think he's not yet even wrapped his mind around the fact that I would be open to reconciliation with him.

His personality type isn't one to 'assume' that I am an option. He's actually not as 'confident' as he would like the world to believe and boy oh boy the things he said the other night definately prove that. Right now, he's just now realizing how HORRIBLE he's been and just starting to see the amount of damage. It sounds like right now, it is overwhelming him with guilt and shame.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not necessary for him to take action. Yes, of course I want a man who longs for me and is willing to come to me and ask what it will take. He's not there yet,,,,,,,,,he may never get there.


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ExWS -Drac
DD 9
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Steve was specific that it would take some coaxing and work on my part to get Drac to engage.

But isn't this AFTER he takes some FIRST STEPS? Did Steve use the word COAXING? Seems like he already has "ENGAGED"..that's not the PROBLEM, is it?

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I think he's not yet even wrapped his mind around the fact that I would be open to reconciliation with him.

dontknow You sent him the PLAN B LETTER. You were SINCERE about the letter weren't you? I know you were but you seem to have forgotten about that whole concept.

I think you are feeling the need to do TOO MUCH of the work.

I still think he can do more.

You are portraying him as being so INCOMPETENT.

To me, that is almost DISRESPECTFUL of him.

He has THE CAPACITY to do more.

BELIEVE IN HIM.

EXPECT MORE OUT OF HIM.

HE WILL RESPOND TO YOUR ADMIRATION.


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Let him KNOW that you are OPEN to HIS INVITATION.

Let him KNOW that you are AWAITING that ONE ON ONE MEETING.

THEN, STEP BACK....

Given his LOW SELF-ESTEEM, he will feel better about himself in a relationship with a woman that lets him MAKE THE FIRST MOVES...to be THE MAN...



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Checking in, Bugsy. What's shakin?

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The silences reminds me of her Plan A. blush


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Originally Posted by wildhorses74
The silences reminds me of her Plan A. blush


Fox

SL reminds you of Bugs Plan A?

Really?

You wanna expand on that?

Last edited by BetrayedCajun; 08/26/08 03:35 PM. Reason: boy I set myself up good that time

BS 33 EXWW 35 DS 5
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naughty



Fox: :twobyfour: BC: :crosseyedcrazy:


kiss



Fox





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rotflmao

That's some pretty fancy emoticonese Foxy




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I have a reputation to uphold, ya know.

flirt

Fox

ETA: That's an "innocence" icon, not a "flirt", BTW

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I think Bugsy is MAD at ME...

Come on, Bugsy..let me have it..I'm at your mercy...


(UNSURE ABOUT THE ICON????)

COME BACK, BUGSY...

COME BACK...

----------------------------------------------------------------

Just trying to DISCOURAGE you from FALLING INTO THE SAME OLD/SAME OLD with DRAC...

THIS TIME..IT'S GOT TO BE DIFFERENT, I think..

But what do I know...

Just SCARED for YOU...





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Foxy is an expert in emoticonesiology. Amazing. I totally buy her calling this flirt an INNOCENCE emoticon.

BC's another story, however skeptical

Mimi, I think Bugsy is practicing being the MOUSE. grin

oooooor, she's up to something and doesn't want us to stop her skeptical


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Gang:

I don't know what Bugsy is up too. She could be engulfed in work, or Drac made the one-on-one call and it hasn't ended yet.

Or, something worse. Mom's cancer. Dad's issues, maybe something else. Either way, we can wait.

Mimi: She is NOT scared of you. stickout

However.

I wanted to bring this over from the (F)wayward Not2L8's thread.

Schoolbus is amazing. She posted this to Not2L8 and I think Bugs could send it to Drac.

Quote
What you are feeling are normal emotional responses. You should feel upset - things in your life are a mess because you messed them up. Medication will not solve the problems you created, and I think it is ridiculous that doctors think that we should not feel the emotional results of normal everyday life.

Rant over.

************


I talk about your feelings regarding the OW being a fantasy for a reason. Consider something called the "mere exposure effect". This is the idea that people who work around each other, or people who spend a great deal of time together, and find one another mutually friendly and reasonably attractive to begin with are much more likely to become more and more sexually attracted to one another with an increase in time spent together. For example, you work with a woman who is friendly and nice-looking. Not necessarily someone you would ordinarily seek out as a date or sexual partner. But because you spend lots of time together on a project, you get closer and closer to each other. She starts looking pretty good to you, and vice-versa. The attraction grows because of the mere exposure to one another.

This mere exposure effect goes a long way toward explaining many office romances and many affairs in the workplace, especially those where the two people are completely mismatched otherwise.

The fantasy - yes. Your OW? Let's talk about her. Next post.

Then:

Quote
Not,

Okay, let's talk about the idea of fantasy and the OW.

Let's say you really did love the OW.

Fine.

So, that means you automatically "unlove" your wife?

I don't buy that.

Here's what I think happened.


You betrayed YOURSELF first.

I cannot state exactly WHEN or WHERE you betrayed yourself. But you did. It happens in EVERY DECISION TO HAVE AN AFFAIR. From that point of self-betrayal, from that exact point on, you began to betray your wife.

At some point, you had the thought of working your way closer to the OW. It crossed your mind, and you pushed that thought back as WRONG. You began to do things to keep yourself from thinking about her, and you knew that you were venturing into dangerous territory.

Right?

Had you stopped yourself at this point, and focused on the marriage, you would not have betrayed yourself.

But you made a choice to go ahead and move closer to the OW instead, to explore her as a possible love candidate, despite the fact that you had a wife.

AT THIS POINT, YOU BETRAYED THE DEEP, INNER VOICE INSIDE OF YOU THAT TOLD YOU THAT THIS BEHAVIOR WAS WRONG.

You self-betrayed.

Once you self-betrayed, you started thinking differently. You looked at your wife differently, and the OW differently. The OW became "better". She HAD to. Because the act of self-betrayal had to be

JUSTIFIED.

You had to justify your actions, do you see that?


You had to have some way in your mind, in your conscious, to justify what you were about to do.

You were about to cheat on your wife, to betray her. And you knew that.

The ONLY justification for that would be:

IF YOUR WIFE DESERVED IT, and you could BLAME HER FOR IT.


So mentally, the changes that occur are this: your wife's small faults become larger; your wife's sarcastic tones begin bothering you greatly; you begin to rewrite your marital history so that it works in favor of justifying what you are about to do; and any other perceived problems in the marriage become vastly magnified.



I will say that again, because you have to really live with this.

THE ONLY WAY FOR YOU TO LIVE WITH YOUR ACT OF SELF-BETRAYAL WAS IF YOU COULD BLAME YOUR WIFE FOR IT.

Now, tell me that you had NO conversations wtih your OW regarding how your wife was difficult to talk to, didn't meet your needs, etc.

You did.

Because it justified what you were doing. Blamed HER.


I'm not hitting you with a 2X4. I'm telling you how it works, really happens.

That self-betrayal initiated the blame-game. It allowed you to foist the blame elsewhere and at the same time pushed into place a second event............

The coronation of the OW.

Because this HAD to happen. The OW was the key partner in the game. She HAD to be better than your wife - do you see that?

Because if you were to commit this act of self-betrayal, and go against everything you knew to be right and good

then it had better be for something right and good.

You did it for the OW.

So you absolutely, positively, COULD NEVER ADMIT THAT THE OW WAS ANYTHING OTHER THAN RIGHT OR GOOD.


Could you?


Next post, let's talk about that.........is the OW "right and good"?????

And:

Quote
Is the OW "right and good"? Is she that perfect fantasy that you nuked your marriage for?

Nope.

Here's why.


That OW is someone who came into your life and made sure that she attracted you. You saw her as a love candidate, and you were married. She KNEW you were married.

I wonder - would you want a wife who has no regard for marital vows? Your OW has none. She lacked regard for YOURS. She did not care that you were married.

If you ended up with her, married her, she would bring that attitude into that marriage. Something to consider. Not "good".

Your OW, did she consider your children, and the impact her presence in your marriage might have on them? IMHO, any person who intrudes on a marriage that has children involved, has no moral standing. She was willing to put herself and her own selfish desires above YOUR CHILDREN and their needs, Not. ABOVE THEM. You should never choose anyone who would put themselves above your children - that alone tells you a great deal about her character. Neither "right" nor "good".

How often did your OW say negative things about your BW? About how much better a woman she is than your BW? She said those things in order to drive your wife out of your life, to help you push your wife away - make you hate your wife in your mind - drive a wedge into your marriage, in her selfish desire to "have" you, not to "love" you. There is a difference, you know. Not "right", and no, not "good".



And that fantasy...............

OW was always able to get herself ready for you, had time to shower and dress up. Your wife? She woke up in the real world with you, sometimes in work clothes, sometimes from painting the garage, sometimes from digging in the garden...

OW was always able to put on the candles before you got there, and clean the house. Your wife? She was doing great to have your dinner ready between getting the kids to dance class and catching the dog that got out the gate yet again, and oh, since you forgot to pick up milk on your way home she ran and got it, and "somebody" broke the toilet paper holder again so she fixed that...

OW gave you hand-made love cards every time you met for secret sex rendevous. Your wife?

She made love to you that first time you two were together - remember where and when that was? How you felt then? Make your mind go there - it's reality and THAT IS LOVE.

She bought that sexy outfit once that didn't stay on long and ohhhh she looked great - remember that? And you two made love...that's reality and THAT IS LOVE.

She wrote you love notes once and twice and three times, and more, and you read them and remember them, and probably have them stashed somewhere. She has given you gifts over the years for birthdays and Christmases and "just because", and you kept some and laughed at some and don't even know what happened to others. She lost your socks and stayed up with you when you were sick.

She raised your children.

She probably wrecked one of your cars.

Or you wrecked hers!

She shared more than one laugh with you, and a thousand tears.

And she has stood next to you in the best of times, and is standing right there now, in the very worst of them.

Your OW........gone. Because she was a fantasy, and for all the reasons you can see and more............

Your wife is reality.

Your wife is love.


You make a choice every day about love. You accept it or reject it. You give it or take it.

If there is one thing I have figured out about love, is that it is found where you GIVE it.

Odd little fact.

WOW, WOW, WOW.

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I didn't say she was SCARED of me..

I said she is MAD at me..

stickout


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I think SB is GREAT...in her KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF AFFAIRS...

But about BUGSY...

I RELATE to her doing so much WORK in her RELATIONSHIP with DRAC..I think he would RESENT her EDUCATING HIM...

Bugsy knows what I mean..THE MICROMANAGING...

I'm concerned about her stepping back into that ROLE and wanting to do it again..ALL THE WORK..

She says she wants to "DO SOMETHING"...

I'm trying to DISCOURAGE her from the OLD PATTERNS...

Learned this from my H..

Although HE LOVES AND VALUES this about ME...

It is NOT ROMANTIC...

He would have been the CAKE-EATER FOREVER..USING me for THAT.. and going to the OW for the FUN and LAUGHS..and ADMIRATION..SHE NEEDED HIM...SHE NEEDED HIM...Hear me, Bugsy?..He wants YOU to NEED HIM...not for YOU to feel like HE NEEDS YOU...

My H and I had a conversation about this even TODAY. I still come across as a SUPERWOMAN..who doesn't HURT..who CAN HANDLE IT ALL..all by myself...

AND..like BUGSY..my H enjoyed CONVERSATION and SF with ME...BUT...I think she needs to RETHINK that MICROMANAGEMENT that she does...WANTING TO DO THE WORK for HIM..that she THINKS that HE CANNOT DO FOR HIMSELF...

BTDT is what I'm saying...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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