IMHO, this is absolutely the truest statement of ALL and the most WISE thinking you can have. This is why we went through this. G-d wants relationships with us ALL and you are absolutely correct on this, in order for our M to be restored and built on the firm ground of MB principles etc, G-d must be central to it.

I am just in awe of your understanding of this and how you are handling this.

Have an awesome day and I'll continue my prayers for you and your family.

{{{{{{{{BUGS}}}}}}}}}}

THIS IS EXACTLY THE CALL THAT I GOT, BUGSY..OUR "What about US?" call...and look at US..NOW...

I think it's GENUINE...

I think this is RECOVERY...

Because HE does speak about his MEMORIES of YOU..about HIS LOVE for you in the PAST...

That is what he still HAS..LOVE for YOU....

He does ADMIT that HE was WRONG...that's what YOU reported....

There is a lot of WORK to do...

He does, for example, need TO DO the NO CONTACT LETTER...

He does need to know that YOU can FORGIVE HIM...that RECONCILIATION does not mean that YOU WILL BEAT HIM UP...

Of course, this REQUIRES work with STEVE...

IMO, it's a DJ to REQUIRE him to get right with GOD..

That's HIS WORK and between HIM and THE LORD..which will and can happen but that is not your work now...

YOUR WORK is to SPELL OUT YOUR CONDITIONS...and what YOU WANT and EXPECT from him...

I THINK THIS IS IT..HE ENDED THE RELATIONSHIP ON HIS OWN..HE HAS ALREADY GONE THROUGH WITHDRAWAL..HE IS WANTING YOU..HE MADE THE CALL...TEXTBOOK AND PERFECT..TEXTBOOK AND PERFECT..WONDERFUL...WONDERFUL....

LET STEVE DIRECT YOU TO THE FINISH LINE!!

This is critical and first on my prayer list for you. It sounds as if DRAC has been searching his heart and is beginning to realize that his life is a shambles.

He is at a very vunerable place right now. When my DH finally reached this point and even through the fog of alcohol he recognized that he was lost, without me, without the kids, and especially without God in his life. He reached out in his own way just as I see DRAC reaching out. What DRAC doesn't know is that God's mercy is far-reaching and everlasting.

DRAC believes he is beyond redemption in your eyes. You said some good stuff to him, I just hope he "heard" it.

Pray for God to speak to DRAC, in his dreams even, and that the blinders will be lifted.

Oh Bugs, definitely call or email Steve about this. Eventually you're going to have to decide if R is what you really want. It won't be up to DRAC. It'll be up to you.

(((Bugs)))

I think Mimi is on target here.. call it a DJ or a SD (even though it's not totally selfish).. it's still LBing..


However, I think it appropriate to point out that you can be the EXAMPLE here.. early on he's going to want to spend as much time as possible rekindling the flame IF HE IS TRULY BENT ON RECOVERY.. so I'm sure it wouldn't take much more than you and Ladybugs headed to church regularly, and making it clear he's welcome to come with you... and of course fervent prayer that God touches his life... to show him the way... and even if he doesn't go with you.. might not hurt to bring up over dinner or something during the course of the week 'You know.. I've been thinking about what Pastor/Father/Reverend etc said about...' to keep God in the conversation..

As usual you two are correct, I get the difference and stand corrected.

Easy now Queenie..

Mimi is almost always right..


This is new practice for Jamesus

You are right more often than not. Take it when it's given.

Guys, I don't read anywhere in here to Bugs is "requiring" this of DRAC. She says it is her "hope" and that she doesn't "see" it working if God's not first.

She's not saying it's a requirement, but rather a hope. And it's a good one because it's true. What is it the scripture says about being unequally yoked? They are divorced. She can now CHOOSE whether to recover with DRAC knowing that he's not where he needs to be with God. It's a serious consideration.

Totally agreed PM..

I just think Momma Mimi and I might just be a little overprotective of Bugsy here and are offering up cautionary advice in the midst of our extreme happiness for her.

Hey guys!

I just got to the office and logged on to say this, because it is very important


Thanks PM for seeing this. It is not a REQUIREMENT. I agree, it is between Drac and God. It an important matter.

I don't want this time on my thread to turn into a religious/scripture debate right now.

Suffice it to say that there are going to be many elements to recovery If we go down that path.

Lots of work to be done.

I can tell you all that I know from my last session with Steve that right now, it's time for me to put out there the IDEA of recovery. The POSSIBIITY of Recovery. The next step is to have him say YES, I think I'd like to take a look at this 'idea', this 'possibility' and to have a session with Steve.

I am fearful of how to go about turning the conversation from HIS idea of 'wanting to be friends' to the possibility of recovery. This is a crucial step. Last night was about letting him get said what he was wanting to say - - about him reaching out and ME allowing him to do that safely.

I am NOT taking the lead on this. He left open the offer to contact him later last night, it was light hearted flirting that I would have definately responded to when I was in Plan A. I did not respond last night. This is TOO important to make it TOO playful right now. A BIT of playfullness is Important, Good & Required for sure. But I want him to think about that I DO have a lot to think about.

I HAVE to take care of some work issues this morning, so I HAVE to go,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Thanks everyone and keep those cards & letters coming!

((((((((((((((BUGS))))))))))))

So glad to see you aren't letting yourself get swept up in all of this.

I know with that in mind you're going to do FINE.

Keep the Goddess shades on lady.. you're doing WONDERFUL.

So the question is how do you do this? Just come right out and say it? Send him a letter? A card? Over the phone? I'm asking because I DON'T know. I didn't get this chance to do it the right way. So, I'll just sit back, read and learn.

I'll just say that IMO, GOD will take care of DRAC..already IS working on him...

I'm in agreement with everyone..including Bugsy..that she has to focus on HER OWN WORK...

And I agree, Bugsy.

There needs to be CLEAR COMMUNICATION that you don't want to be HIS FRIEND but HIS WIFE again...Well, in my viewpoint, you're still HIS WIFE, divorced from a LEGAL point of view but not SPIRITUALLY..antyways...

I just think, from what you are saying, that all the necessary elements are THERE...

PM, Bugsy has stated that she wants to RECOVER..that's what got this recent stuff started..her moves in that direction..and your OPENING up some lines of COMMUNICATION has been a FACTOR here Bugsy...

He's looking for YOU to take the LEAD. Remember, like my H, you have been the MICROMANAGER in the RELATIONSHIP and he will be looking for you to play that role in this..he will NEED for you to play that role in this...

Like my H said..PUTTING OUT THE BREADCRUMBS for him to find his way HOME...

That's what I hear that he is MISSING..HIS FAMILY and a SENSE OF HOME..not JUST YOU..that's what makes this SIGNIFICANT now...

There will be a need for you and Steve to let him know that this is possible and how to accomplish this...and that it has been done by MANY OTHERS...

Oh, Bugsy, I am so thrilled for you. That conversation alone can be very healing. Recover or not. You're right, there was no apology and you need to make sure that happens and he doesn't just sweep it under the rug (ASK him for it if you have to at some point.)

I think using liquid courage is pretty common. That way if it goes bad he can blame it on the booze.

I was glad to see your last post, Bugs. About not pushing too far too fast.

He has not asked to come home. I think he needs to lead on this. HE must want it. It needs to be his idea.

I think your hints of recovery need to be very subtle. It MUST be his idea and he must pursue you if that is what he wants.

One thing that bothered me when you posted about a previous email convo between you and Drac was about going to the work function together and how that would give everyone something to talk about.

Did he think about what they might say? Does he think they are thinking about everlasting love and devotion when they see you as a couple again?

IMO, he would be trying to redeem himself with his co-workers. There's really no thought of how Bugs may be viewed.

It isn't important what others think, this is your life and your choices. However, if the opinion of others is important to Drac and he makes comments about "showing them" - then he may not realize he is USING you to SHOW THEM. YOUR thoughts and feelings should be at the forefront.

He still needs to look outside of himself, IMO.

Just rambling thoughts and I'm sorry if I was a downer. I really am thrilled for you and hope he puts his whole heart and soul back into the family.

Fox

I don't think you should PURSUE him...

HE DID CALL YOU FIRST..after you being DARK...

BUT..I still think you can LEAD on the IDEA of RECOVERY as recommended by STEVE...

Drac does not have the information that we have about this being POSSIBLE and how it can be BEST ACCOMPLISHED...

That's what I've been talking about you LEADING ON...

I do think that conversation is FULL OF HOPE for RECOVERY...There's LOTS of LOTS of indication of that, IMO...

HE SOUNDS MUCH LIKE MY HUSBAND DID OR EVEN MORE REPENTFUL because he's been through much of his WITHDRAWAL, I think...

But, of course, consult with STEVE...

Wow.

I don't have much time to post, I'm leaving for the weekend and will be without internet.

But, I think he needs to know he can be forgiven and that this can be fixed. He didn't want to go that far, because he has no expectation that you would listen or respond.

I disagree that he didn't say it was "wrong" -- I think that is very much the message he was trying to send you. He may not have come out with those exact words -- but he's damn close.
And close to apologizing too.

He needs to feel safe. I'm so glad you responded to him, and had so many positive things to say back to him. It was really important when he "put himself out there" that you not hurt him.
And you did a really wonderful job of protecting your boundries and yet responding to him positively.

I am so glad you have been preparing for this!!!
Can you imagine that conversation if it had come out of the blue with no MB prep??? It could have gone very badly and your H (not drac) would have gone back into hiding!

You are amazing!

I was typing the exact same thing when you posted this.



Good signs but tread carefully.

Go back and read all the things he said. A lot of it is self pity. Much of it is just about him. SL and Believer both heard a lot of this.

The line that stood out to me was, "I don't like being alone." Spoken like a true male.

I think this is almost the whole reason SL's zombie came back for his grand finale.

But.....there was more to this one methinks.

What a lesson in the workings of the MB method.

I thought the same thing as I was reading it, but I think this is normal for most people. We have to be guided to look inward and express how we've harmed others without the self pity.

I also believe that the TONE of the conversation was a little deeper than my first contact with the Zombie. I think SEEING is going to be believing. When I saw the Zombie, he still carried a little bit of that faraway look in his eye, like he was disconnected. I thought it was withdrawal. I believe he was sincere in his WANT to be recovered, just not in how much he was willing to do to get there. This is why I think it's critical that Bugsy get Drac to Steve, IF they decide to give this a try.

This is KEY. IMHO.

Fox

But pay attention to it all the same.

I think I would make it a condition. If you want to come home, then you must work with Steve.

Let Steve be the gatekeeper for you, Bugs. This certainly seems to be textbook, so Steve will have worked with these people plenty of times before. Get his opinion on where Drac is.

(((Bugs)))