I don't understand your point, LG. I don't consider those situations to be EMERGENCIES.

IT IS ABOUT BEING DARK!! There's no sort of, kind of PLAN B...

He CHOSE this ROUTE to not be with his children and needs to suffer the consequences.

IMO, DRAC and BUGSY are not on EQUAL FOOTING with this.

BUGSY is already on HIGH GROUND and he is DOWN BELOW...way below...he is not a NORMAL, TYPICAL DIVORCED FATHER!! He ABANDONED his FAMILY for ANOTHER WOMAN...

LG,

I have no arguement with your assesment of things. None at all. Virtually every point you make, I had thought of and I don't disagree.

Frankly, I thought he would ask to speak with me on the phone after talking to the kids and I was prepared to do it. While not a life threatening emergency, I would have wanted to talk to the adult (Drac or whoever had them in their care) to get the details.

I didn't mean to intimate that it was DSS's responsibility to remember the details of the appointment. As you say, in his mind it was handled by Mom. It is just curious that Drac gets details about other minor things out of him but wasn't able to get any info about this? It seems a bit 'curious' to me.

But, that isn't the point.

Bottom line honest - if I were in his shoes, yes I would expect more than what I gave.


Those were really the things I was thinking of when I did reply. A very big part of me wanted to 'explain' or even to apologize for not getting him details before he asked. But as you say, the time had passed and the rest would have been pointless.


Hmmm, I simply took it as it an opportunity to get some burden off his shoulders. It lends the question of how to evaluate 'open' vs anything else. I think the standard probably is the question - Would he have communicated this if it were still HappyHoHouse? This one is a maybe/maybe not in my mind.

I do have a copy of my Plan B letter. I just found it in my copy of SAA. When I found it, I had a flashback to the last time I refered him back to it and his cold, angry response. It really hurt. He just views it as my telling him what he has to do and how to live his life. I guess he will always view it that way unless there is a change from the wayward mentality.


Yep, and I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

Golf tournament has been moved to the fall. I think it's now in October. Last year we had to re-schedule due to weather and ended up playing in Oct (I think). Everyone much prefered the cooler weather. July in Missouri isn't just hot,,,,it's that lovely HUMID weather where just stepping outside you get soaking wet with sweat. Yuck!

Mimi,

I know that LG is coming at this from the position of being a caring father - - something that is in question in Drac's case, but in his way I know Drac does care very much about his kids.

He doesn't see the damage path of his actions,,,,that doesn't mean he doesn't love them.

I'm not giving him a pass. Don't get me wrong on that at all.

There are times and situations where it is needed to give him information.

The When and How is the hard part.

What consititues an emergency?

The fact of the matter is he was 4 hours away, so calling prior to or during the visit made no sense. He couldn't have been there if he had wanted to be. It just wasn't possible. And 5 stiches were not life threatening.

After the fact, he did get the information. Yes, DSS wanted to be the one to tell him.

Should Drac have asked questions and talked to me? In my mind, I can't believe he didn't insist on talking to me. I would have if the roles were reversed. Part of this IS the difference between Moms and Dads. Frankly, if it had been Ladybug, I would have jumped in the car and been there as fast as I could. That's just me.

I sent the paperwork from the ER with DSS last night, so Drac did have the information on the situation and what to watch for during the healing process. The fact is I could have and honestly feel I should have sent a brief email about the follow up appt before he had to ask. It didn't need to be long, but he should know the date/time of the follow up.

Now he does.

Life moves on.

EXACTLY!!

Dollars to donuts DRAC isn't restraining himself in this area. I'd be careful what you reveal to the kiddos, as it's likely to get back to DRAC. (i.e., does your mom know that NoHo is gone? what'd she say?)

As to communications re the kids... he is entitled to know when there is an emergency. The method of delivery of said information should have been spelled out in your decree. If not, I would continue with the bare bones stuff.

DRAC: "It would be nice if...."
BUGS: _______________________________________________ (can you hear the silence?)

You handled it the way you handled it. It's done. You learned what needs to be done in the future (follow up info about return visits to the doc, info about medications and such in an email or TM). DSS talked to his father while at the hospital. Good stuff. In a REAL emergency, I'm certain you would be on that phone lickety split relaying info to Drac, right?

No need to beat yourself about the head with this. Onward and upward.

I'm not beating myself up about this. I knew already what to do, I just didn't get it done. I am aggravated with myself for not just getting that email out last night before the power went out. Oh well.

Just came in to cool off from mowing the grass,,,,,,GEEZ it's hot!

Hey PM!!


Trust me, this is ONE thing that I've been VERY careful about. I say nothing about Drac in front of them, unless it's something that they've brought up in general conversation.

I have been particularly proud of the fact that I have not asked ONE single question about the Ho and her seemingly quick & quiet exit from their lives. In fact, it's been months since I've asked about anything to do with him or the Ho. Once I learned she was back in the picture and then moving in, I found I had no desire whatsoever to know one tiny tidbit. Anything I 'learn' from them comes out of them simply telling me what THEY have been up to.

I really, really would love for him to just say the words to me "She's moved out". But hey,,he never even acknowledged to me that she was moving IN! Heaven forbid I should know who my children are living with, that's not important at all??!! UGH.

Wonder what's going to happen when he gets to hear about my 'significant' other and our future plans? Do you think he'll expect to be told that our kids will have a new man living with them or will it just be a-ok for me to bring in anyone I want at any time?

Why did I get started on that old crapola?

I was getting so tired while mowing the grass - - it did cross my mind that it would be so nice to have someone to help shoulder some of the responsibility and work - - and then to relax with when it is all done. But then I told myself that it's going to be quite some time before that happens, so buck it up Goddess and get it done. So I did.

I think it's time for a nice relaxing swim and a frozen beverage with an umbrella. I'm thinking some chinese sounds good, too!

Bugs:

You sort of nailed it right here:


You know you should have sent SOMETHING. That's not about breaking darkness, it's about keeping them in the loop like you would like to have been.

And what's a defination of a "real" emergency?

I KNOW you handled it beautifully on your part with the kids and the Dr, and had it under control, so it seems that it wasn't a "real" emergency. But a unplanned trip to the doctor's moves that from a weekend event to an emergency. With notification to the other spouse.

If it happened at Drac's, you would want every shred of info you could get, and deserved.

At this point, nothing more to do. I wouldn't send him an email saying that the power went out. Its done.

DRAC does not deserve anything more than Plan B. You stated how it has been for the past 7-8 months. DARK. And you have done it well.

Most of the things on your thread are just about the "musings" that you have about your life, where you are right now, looking back at the wreckage in Drac's past, and where you hope to go.

Your doing well. Very well in fact. Someone else, may someday, and soon, be riding the lawnmower for you. You will bring him a beer. And you two will both enjoy when when the lawn is donee. You can even stick an umbrella into your beer.

And then you will realize that God put you on this path to GET TO THIS PLACE. And its a better place than where you were.

And that is all that matters.

((((BUGSY))))

LG

I'm wondering what's up with you, LG?

What are you saying between the lines?

Why are you making this point about what Drac DESERVES from Bugsy?

I mean what's the BIG DEAL about it?


Are you encouraging BUGSY to MOVE ON and buy in to the COPARENTING deal and to see DRAC as an EQUAL PARENT now and NOT a WAYWARD?

Bugsy is evidently NOT FINISHED with DRAC, IMO, nor HE with her.

The HARLEYS recommend 2 years of PLAN B before moving on...

It's not that I wouldn't understand and accept you doing that, Bugsy.

But it's interesting to me what LG is trying to say at this point.

LG, if I may ask, if you are willing to answer: Where are YOU in this? Is there a part/parts of Drac that you can IDENTIFY with POSITIVELY and/or NEGATIVELY that YOU may be working through?

Must be a good day for mowing. I did the same EXACT thing. I sat on that mower and thought about all the work I had to do, me, just me, all by my lonesome. Meh, I shrugged it off and got the mowing about 80% complete. I'll finish the rest later in the week. It was pretty hot here too.

I mowed, then me and DS got into the pool; he climbed in on the ladder, I did the ole CANNONBALL entry method. DS counts me in. I didn't care that my neck ached and legs hurt--it was a hoot!

I'm pretty interested in LG's take on this, too. I really don't think Bugsy did badly at all. DSS spoke to his dad from the hospital. So Bugsy didn't follow up right away with the date the stitches were to come out, I don't see that as EMERGENT stuff. She would have gotten around to it. Drac was made perfectly aware of the sitch, knew that his son was well taken care of. Hmmmm, I dunno.

Anyway, hope you enjoyed your umbrella laden beverage. I watched "Meet the Robinsons" for the fifth time and loved it.

I had Chinese tonight. It was yummy. Hope yours was, too.

Can you pay a neighborhood kid to mow the lawn for you?

Hey SL!

Wish I had a big ol mower like you! But, I'm glad I don't have that much to mow! My yard isn't that big to need a rider.

SD - yes, I 'could' get a kid in the neighborhood to do it. But having been 'farm raised', it's hard for me to pay someone to do something I am capable of doing. "USUALLY", I enjoy mowing the grass. Just these last few days, I've felt a bit overwhelmed with all of the 'work' there is to do. So, with the extreme heat yesterday I was just a bit down & feeling sorry for myself.



I do this stuff with Ladybugs, too! She loves it, and it's not stuff I'd done much in the past, which makes it even more fun.

Meet the Robinsons? Yep, I know that one. It's so funny how they get on a roll with a particular 'favorite' movie for a while. I can quote waaay too many Disney and Pixar movie lines! ha!

Ladybug wasn't very happy on the phone last night. She started by giving me a hard time about going to the daycare that Drac takes her to. As I'm having here a few days this week, I am taking here there vs where she goes when she is with me. She keeps saying she doesn't want to go to his place of choice and was really 'pressing' about it.

Apparently he's talked about what my plans 'were' or 'weren't' in front of the kids, as she mentioned something about how he'd only paid for Monday and Friday. Well, that's certainly NOT what he told me in his email - - when he emailed me about her staying with me, he offered up front for her to go there "because it's already paid for". So, I don't really understand what was going on with all of that. Perhaps it was his way of justifying asking what we were doing?? OR He really did only pay for those 2 days and wanted to know how many others he had to pay for (perhaps $$ is tight? although it can't be THAT tight if he could afford to go out of town last weekend!)

I think it's just that she wants to stay 'home' when she's home. She then moved into missing me so much, that she never wants to be apart from me, that she HATES this divorce stuff, it's not fair. I tried some reassurances of how Drac loves her and her response was "well he doesn't show it". I almost dropped the phone. I then heard that Daddy is mean, he yells at her all of the time. Then it was that he never lets her have friends over like I do when she's here - - that is most likely the 'root' of the rant she was on,,,,,,,,,and I'm trying to give Drac the benefit of the doubt as much as possible but D*MN it was hard.

It was all I could do to not get really upset and cry until I got off the phone. She's really been acting out more these last few weeks and is much more verbal about how she feels about Drac and the sitch. I'm watching carefully and won't hesitate to get into counseling if it continues. I am sure she's not telling Drac any of this stuff - - I've encouraged her to do so, but her reply is "I can't trust Daddy. I won't believe me." It just BREAKS my heart.

Then, email from Drac last night -

"Ladybugs told me that her private area is a litte red. I looked at it and she looks fine to me. Would you please check? She said it doesn't hurt or itch."

I don't know what that was all about, but I haven't replied. I think it goes without saying that I will, of course, check tonight.

WEll, I really, really need to do a much better job of accomplishing some WORK today than I did yesterday! Vaca next week, so there's some good incentive to get motivated!

Have a great day.

(((((Bugs and Ladybugs)))))


Aww Bugsy.. I know this is hard for you, believe me I do. I had a 'moment' much like your phone call with Ladybugs on Sunday with DS. I'll try posting an update here in a bit. I know you hurt for your little one, and I know that on some level it triggers those 'mad as hell' feelings and resentments about what Drac CHOSE to do to your lovely family.

Acknowledge your feelings for what they are, understand that this 'situation' is not YOUR fault, and that it isn't up to YOU to change it. Say the serenity prayer, and meditate on it.. let God bring you comfort, and KNOW that God loves Ladybugs and is watching out for her too. You're raising a wonderful little girl, and she knows this is hard for you, and believe it or not it's a positive sign that she's acknowledging these things to you.. she's talking about her feelings, and while you have to be careful about how you go about validating them, it's important to her to know that you understand and are there for her. I know you're doing this.. but keeping it at the front of your mind when dealing with these situations can sometimes be helpful.

Nobody chooses their parents.. and sometimes we get a mixed bag. I don't think anyone here, even recovered Waywards would even hesitate to start the argument that active waywards make good parents.. it just isn't true any more than trying to tell someone that an addict makes a good parent.. they don't.. they are the center of their own universe. Even Drac's recent emails insisting on the COPARENTING arrangement isn't about DSS or Ladybugs.. I look at them and I see these messages still being about him.. he wants the details FROM YOU because he wants BUGSY to put a little bit more fill dirt in the hole he's dug for himself at the center of his being.. to assuage a little morsel of the guilt he lives with day in and day out. It's stuff you OWE to him in his mind..

LG does have a point.. but what Drac is REALLY asking for is open communication, and you've got to make sure that your boundaries are firm and nothing gets over the wall. I agree that the best way to do that in cases like this in the future is to send the information immediately.. if you're headed for an unplanned visit to the Dr.. send a txt or something like :

Taking DSS to Dr. He fell and cut himself, may need a few stitches, nothing major.

If he needs more information DSS can tell him the 'story'.. he doesn't need to hear it from you.. oh he'll WANT to.. but DSS is more than capable of relaying the events in his life to his dad if he wants to. Any followup stuff can be handled just like you did, sending the post procedure documents with DSS's things when he goes home... you can pretty much at that point ignore anything Drac sends your way as you've already taken care of your end of things.. presto.. no anxiety and dealing with days worth of Drac grasping in your direction.

Just my $.02 adjusted for inflation.

Honestly though, I know you're struggling a bit.. but BE STILL.. you're doing the best you can.. the best you know how.

Do your best, let God do the rest.

Hey James.

Thank you so much! I actually have tears in my eyes after reading your post.


This type of reminder and validation is exactly what we need to hear sometimes,,,thanks!




I'm trying very hard to do just that.

Mimi:

I don't give a darn about Drac.

I understand all day about being Dark.

In this particular case, and sorry, somewhere in her Divorce Decree, Drac has the right to know what going on with medical conditions with his children.

Bugs may have violated several parts of HIPPA laws when she took DSS to the hospital. All those relationships (if any) with DSS were legally severed when the D was final. I would recommend that Bugs get a written Medical Power of Attorney for any time in the future that DSS is under her care. Just to avoid issues until DSS is 18.

You don't see these weekend events as an emergency. That's an opinion. In Bugs own words she realized that she SHOULD have given DRAC more info. It was the RIGHT thing to do. Circumstances (the power outage) and Drac's unwillingness to ASK to speak to her, prevented that.

Mimi, if something had happened to one of your boys while visiting thier father during your plan B, (Auto and/or bike Accident) and they ended up in the hospital, even outpatient, you would be ENRAGED if WH didn't speak to you directly.

In many respects, Drac softpedaled his response to Bugs in his first email that morning. Drac has designs on thinking that he can lure Bugs back into his web. Therefore, Bugs should be hyper-viligant and step carefully. She may still just recover the H that she once knew.

And I have not advocated a Co-parenting role. That's where Bugs is AT right now. Will be for the rest of her life. She doesn't have to make it easy for Drac, and she hasn't been.

With Ladybugs last night? The fruits of all of Dracs efforts are coming home to roost. And Bugs gets to deal with that rotten fruit.

It's a tough one, Mimi. Bugs did well considering all the circumstances. Had she sent a 5-6 line email with a summary and then what happens next, which SHE knew should have been done, I would have never injected my POV. Drac is horrible. Drac is Wayward. But he's still DSS legal guardian. And Ladybugs father.

LG

Actually it would have been the hospital that violated HIPAA, not Bugs.

Bugs;

I don't know what to tell ya. This sucks.

Everyone is telling you to stay in Plan B. But where I really struggle is that IMHO, you've never REALLY been in a true dark Plan B. There has always been too much email/text contact between you and Drac directly. There is too much visual contact at games and kid trades. There is too much info being traded via ladybugs.

Part of me wants to see you Plan A a little bit. But that's because it is my bias and belief that it is the only way Drac is coming back. I just don't see Drac ever crawling, begging, or remorseful. (Like I said before -- until he is safe.)

It sounds like you have made your decision that you don't want him back any other way.

So where exactly does that leave you?

So the way I see it, you're not really in Plan B...and you don't want to try Plan A. There is a little bit of a double standard going between what you expect from Drac, and what you are willing to give.

I don't think there is a MB solution out of this.

My personal vote is what I've told you before. Plan A a little. On your terms. And see what happens.

LG:

I've been trying to learn more about YOU. Why are YOU stressing this point? Why is this such a big deal to YOU? Curious...Speaking up for FATHER'S RIGHTS? Drac is not a NORMAL FATHER. He cares about his children's outpatient doctor visits but brings them into the PRESENCE of EVIL? Let's his daughter sleep in the same room with a STRANGE BOY, son of the woman who her FATHER is living with IN SIN? Has her saying I LOVE YOU to this EVIL WOMAN? To me, THAT and MORE that he has done on the weekend is MORE DAMAGING to his children than anything that happened with them physically this weekend. Did he check with BUGSY about that stuff? If it would have been me, not knocking you BUGSY..you're my girl..I WOULD HAVE DONE EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO KEEP MY CHILDREN AWAY FROM THE OTHER WOMAN...My children would not be spending the weekend ever in her presence..I know that was/is out of Bugsy's hands at this point..BUT..THIS IS WHERE I'M COMING FROM IN ALL THIS..I could give a HOOT about HIS LEGAL RIGHTS..I would not compare myself AT ALL to a WAYWARD...or a DIVORCED HUSBAND who left me for another woman...

Excuse my rant... ..

Now I'm better...

And BTW, I've always been kind of NUTS like this about my children..PROTECTIVE even to this day...MY HUSBAND knows full well that I would have GONE CRAZY..unfortunately..if she ever got around them...I'm not proud of my propensity for losing control of my anger..I'm trying to work on that loose fuse...I was EMOTIONALLY ABUSED probably also PHYSICALLY ABUSED as a child so this a MAJOR TRIGGER POINT for me..Bugsy knows...I've shared with her about this issue...

So what about YOU, LG? I was wanting to hear about YOU.

Mimi:

About this:
Not all that much to say.

It was my POV on this one issue for Bugs.

Everything else in your rant about what an awful guy DRAC is? True. No disagreement with me.

Flamingo says to this day that the Plan D from her would have been NUCLEAR. But that she would have NEVER interferred with my relationship with my son.

I'm glad I never had to test that.

Otherwise, I'm fine.

LG