Don't go there with the BAIT stuff...

THE ANSWER, IMO, is PLAN B...

A major purpose of PLAN B is for him TO SUFFER...to long for you..for you NOT TO MEET ANY OF HIS ENs....

Mortarman..the PLAN B GENIUS here..tried to hammer that into me and he was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT...

So, I agree..the PLAN B LETTER and then into DARKNESS...REAL DARKNESS...

He is getting all kinds of NEEDS met..just by SEEING YOU...

You need to DISAPPEAR from HIM...

He needs to LONG FOR YOUR SIGHT..for your PRESENCE...

Do you get this?

He needs to experience the PAIN of WITHDRAWAL from you...

Oh, YES..he RESPECTS you...not a problem there..

Oh, YES...he STILL HAS LOVE FOR YOU...and YOU HAVE LOVE FOR HIM...

WHAT A TRAGEDY..this DIVORCE STUFF from AFFAIRS...

The man that bought that piece of crap out to the car wants YOU..but on HIS TERMS...

You've got to take the UPPER HAND NOW...

"YOU GET NONE OF ME, NOT ONE OUNCE OF ME..UNLESS YOU COMMIT YOURSELF ONLY TO ME..otherwise I keep MOVING ON..."

Oops,,, I posted before I was finished.

Although I need some clarification as outlined above, I have worked on a first blush, VERY rough draft start on a new letter. There are some specific parts I'm not crazy about, but left them in for some feedback , , ,



"
I have made so many great changes in my life. My outlook is so different. I see so much in so many different ways and have changed & grown a lot. I no longer wish to engage or interact in the same old ways that I used to with people. My focus is on the good of life; on the infinite possibilities. In the joy and promise every day brings to life.

Due in great part to the changes I have made, I have relationships now that are different than in the past. This is true for both old relationships I’ve had for years, as well as the many new ones I have been blessed to find.

Based on those changes, I truly thought that with the divorce final, the opening up of communication with you would be beneficial, but it is not.

Honestly, the fact is, because of my changes and the things I have learned, I have come to recognize the errors of the past, and have made changes to prevent them from being repeated in my future. What I once thought of as being a good relationship, or even a good marriage, no longer holds a candle to what I know I can have.

I finally recognize the foundation for the most wonderful and infinite happiness that our marriage held for us both, and under the right circumstances, could still hold for us. This summer I told you that I had found a way that could bring us both to the best relationship of our lives. I didn't tell you that to try to control you or manipulate you or just get my way.

It was because I finally saw the foundation we had, I remembered every little thing about you that made me fall in love with you in the first place, I saw how my lack of communication and disrespectful judgements changed things, I figured out that the amazing things we had came from doing what was natural at the beginning of our relationship - simply meeting each others needs. I still believe in all of that. It is something we could choose to have. It would be a journey,,,a process, and one that can only be initiated by you. I’ve learned that is yours to choose or not to choose, and I do not wish to concern myself with your choices in that regard any more.

So, our paths now are separate. In order for me to continue with my own positive choices and to keep walking down my path so to speak, to truly explore the outstanding possibilities I have before me, I need to remain disengaged from any unnecessary interaction or communication with you. It brings no good to my life, so it makes no sense to keep it a part of my life.

You know our children mean more to me than life itself. Based on things you have said, it seems that you think we should be friends and have numerous, perhaps even daily detailed discussions regarding them. I can not do that. Very little interaction is necessary between us, even for the sake of the kids. That isn’t what it seems you envisioned, but it is what it is by the very nature of divorce."



I intend to add the necessary info about how communication should be done moving forward,,,

Thanks for making that sufficiently 5th grader-ish for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I want to make sure I know where you "are," because I'm reading through my own lens. Know what I mean?

For all of your sakes, I'm glad to hear that you have balances, and that you are so clear on it. No wishy-washy-ness. You are still in this. You go!

Looks like it's back to Plan B for Bugs.. and not a moment too soon. Was hard to watch you agonize over every little thing Drac did or said.

It's ok Bugs, we all slip a little sometimes, but you want the best chance for a successful outcome. I think the letter is very well written and well timed. You've given him a little taste.. now you've laid it on the line.

I'm not sure I'm ready for an intermediary, and I've still got some plan A'ing to do at least through the holidays. I'm seeing cracks in the foundation and want to give things my best shot.. I didn't execute much of a plan A to begin with so I'm about 3 months behind but better late than never. Sounds like you did a good Plan A.. and Plan B was working.. time to get back to what works for Bugs, unfortunately that wasn't Plan Bugs.

Just another way to show everyone that a Divorce Decree doesn't end the stand.. it just changes the legal rules.

(((((Bugs)))))

Do something wonderful for yourself today.

Bugs:

As Always, Mimi is ON IT.

Glad she's back.

But by "bait" I meant the simple delivery of the actual Plan B Letter.

No stuffing it in DSS or DD backpack: "Make sure this gets to Drac"
No handing it to him at the kid transfer: "Here's something for you"
No dropping in in the mail.
No sending an email.

Bugs making an appointment with Drac. At lunch, or maybe late afternoon. At a neutral Site, or one with ALOT of positive memories.

Bugs. One on One with Drac. Goddess like, and during the drinks stage, delivering the letter.

1. Drac can stand and walk out.
2. Drac can read and ask questions, that the Goddess will freely answer.
3. Drac can respond negativly, and become venomous. Then the Goddess can leave.

Which ever WAY it goes? Goddess stands up in the end, stares Drac in the eye, and says: "There IS a way back. Theres your road map. But YOU have to take the first steps." And then Disappers into the darkness.

True Darkness.

And that's the ONLY "Bait" I would leave.

Why? Because I believe that in this case, Drac feels that ONCE AGAIN, Bugs has it all figured out. He minimizes his choices in all this, and then believes that Bugs has moved on and left Drac.

Remember that Bugs was always: "Large and IN Charge"

She was in Plan B, and after the ink was dry, started becoming a co-parent.

Which suited Drac just fine. Beats up Bugs, but suits Drac Fine.

And relieves Drac of HIS responsibilities in all this.

Simply redelivering the Plan B letter, allows Drac to determine that once again, Bugs is controlling the world.

So instead of just delivering the Plan B Letter, Meet with him and answer any questions he might have.

Let him know that SH laid it all out in the past, "can you see a future with the woman you love and happiness" Drac answered YES to that.

That's my opinion. For this specific case.

For example, Would I recommend it for LilSis? After the ink is dry for her? No. Because her Husband is in a different place. One I do not understand. I feel I understand Drac's position better. FWIW.

But that is what I propose. Not having Bugs dangling on the line all the time for Drac to take bites at. Just set it up, lay it out, and then go dark. Secure in the knowledge that she KNOWS that Drac understands where she came from. And if he never comes to terms? Then so be it.

She protects herself, and KNOWS that she responded in a way that meets HER need to give it ALL she can. And then, Back to where she belongs. IN darkness, until Drac decides to enter the light.

So, for all you 5th graders: Whats the capital of New Hampshire?

LG

BEAUTIFUL, LG!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Wow, LG! You ROCK!

Bugsy, it sounds like you are ready to step away from the wayward, and that is good! Peace for the holidays.

I completely agree with Mimi on this...



This goes for those separated and divorced in my book!

Bugs;
I'm so happy to see all these great people jump in her to develop a PLAN for you.

It was really hard for me to watch you dissolve your Plan B, and then agonize over how to conduct each interaction.

Drac is apparently HO-free. I like LG's plan to remind him that you are still available to him -- if he makes the right choices.

I want to see PEACE for you. You have lived in this turmoil for so long. You have fought the good fight.
The last place you want to be is sucked into "friend of Drac"....

IMO, he still wants what he wants. There are certain EN's he would like you to fill. But he's not open to letting you fill ALL of them. He still wants to manipulate you into that "friend" place. Then do things like invite you to DD's party and show all those critical family members that he isn't so bad. Have you TALK to him like you used to...be his domestic support so his failings with DSS aren't so obvious.

You know him better than anyone. Do you think he's sorry for what he did? If there is an absence of remorse, I don't know how you get to recovery.

And if he is unable to feel remorse over what he did...you would never want him back. Lilsis got to face WH with tears in his eyes admitting what he did was wrong. Do you see that happening with Drac? Or is he still trying to convince everyone that it was OK?

I just think he has some more falling to do to reach the bottom.

As Lexx says here...

And there you have it, Bugsy....

YOU HAVE GOT TO GET THIS!!!

This is THE GOAL..the ONLY WAY to RECOVERY...IMO....

He has to be SCRAPING THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL...

My H said that he felt like he was LIVING IN HE// or certainly AT THE GATES...

LG nailed it. Great stuff.

I agree that for your plan B, depriving Drac of Bugs and the ENs you meet for him has an effect, and you should take advantage of this by going dark again. Not every WS responds to the deprivation thing, but I think yours does.

Thanks LG & EVERYONE!

I had 'management' company in town at work yesterday, so I haven't really had a chance to Process or respond to the GREAT posts.

I can't thank you all enough, though, as what I have read has made sense to that 5th grade mentality!!

Drac has DD tonight, so I'll catch up with you all then.

Well, Class!

I certainly ENJOY all the nice words!

BUT WILL SOMEONE LET ME KNOW WHAT THE CAPITAL OF NEW HAMPSHIRE IS!

Sheeesh.

Ask a simple question! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

LG <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Concord....do I get a prize?

I have finally had a bit of time to re-read all of the great posts from Tuesday. Again, I can not thank you all enough – lots of good, good stuff!

All of the reminders I really needed from everyone from the peace of Plan B, to the need for Drac to hit bottom, to him needing to be TRULY remorseful, to pointing out that he apparently still needs me to meet certain ENs, to the fact that he really is trying oh so hard to work me into the ‘friend’ to meet his needs - - - it’s all still about him.

I like the idea of a lunch meeting with Drac and the way you laid it all out for me, LG.
I do not think the time is right,,,, yet. It will be soon, but it just doesn’t seem right. Don’t ask me why,,, I can’t really give a solid reason. I’ll share some of my thoughts on this later, when I get them a little more clear for myself.

Mimi - don't get me wrong, I am not denying Plan B is right. I'm not trying to continue to allow him to see/use me or to meet his needs.

I want to take some more time to process through all of the great posts/information here. I am extremely exhausted from work and the next 2 days aren’t going to be any easier. I am going to take the weekend, and perhaps even longer before taking any action in that direction. In the meantime, I’ve pulled the curtain, so to speak. Either no response to his TM, or minimal responses at best.

Tomorrow is DD’s actual birthday. I bought her special donuts and chocolate milk for breakfast and am taking off early so we can spend more time together & go out for a nice dinner together. I know we are BOTH looking forward to it.

Am going to enjoy some quiet time before DD comes home from her evening with Drac.

Thanks again everyone!

PS

Lexxxy – you get the Star Pupil award today! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Here's a pat on the back to you for doing so great! You sound so wonderful...it's funny I have a little issue and I have thought about having lunch with POWS...but I have to process and get some feedback...

Here's looking at you kiddo! Hope works easier than you expect it to be! A little relaxation is in order for BUGS! I feel the same way for myself right now...seem like I can't get enough rest TBH!

Hey Rin!

Thanks for the pat on the back,,,but I am in need of more help! Not only is work nuts, but I don't see the relaxation I need on the horizon. Yikes!

Today was DD's bday. Woke her up holding a chocolate donut with a 7 candle lit on it with chocolate milk. Now THAT is my kind of start to a birthday! She had a great day at school - they had a field trip to see a play today. I picked her up right after school & took her to the restaurant of her choice. Came home & watched Shrek 3 that her dad bought her last night, worked on her "learn to dance" High School Musical dvd, went to dance, McDonalds & she is finally out for the night.

While at dance, Drac called. I did not answer. He left vm that I didn't listen to. I asked DD during break if she wanted to listen to it then or after class. She said after. I gave her the phone w/the vm on it - - the message wasn't for her, it was for ME.

Drac said there was a problem at school w/DSS - he 'really' needed to talk to me about. I listened to the message & it was obvious he was extremely upset. From the sound of the message, it sounded like something REALLY REALLY bad had happened.

I was envisioning DSS being beat up,,,,being kicked out,,,all kinds of horrible things!

DD called & talked to him. I debated & debated, and unfortunately gave in to the manipulation of the VM and spoke w/Drac.

Seems DSS is failing Social Studies due to missing assignements.

Anyone here surprised? I know *I* wasn't, either.

He went on about the details of it, how he tried to talk to DSS & wasn't getting any answers. He asked if I had talked to DSS about his backpack, homework, his locker, etc. I said we had talked about it that DSS told me the same things.

Apparently the 'questioning' of DSS went very poorly. A few years ago in a similiar situation, DSS got himself sooo worked up, he started sweating, went totally white & passed out. This came close to happening again tonight & it totally freaked Drac out.

He went on, while I just listened. Finally he says, "I just don't know what to do".

Oh,,, the things that went thru my mind at that moment! Instead of letting them out, though, I simply remained silent. He finally said "Well, I guess I should contact the school? Talk to the counselor?"

Well DUH!! Your son just got himself worked up enough to almost pass out?? HE77 YES he needs some professional help you dumb a$$!

I replied, "Yes, that needs to be done as a start".

I just sat there & let him finally manipulate me into saying what needs to be done for DSS - - I pointed out that although he "seems" to be at the age where he needs to be more self reliant, 13 year olds still need their parents to keep up with them EVERY DAY, and DSS is different. I DID point out - Look at EVERYTHING he's been through this year,,, that *I* am not there to do these things with him & for him so not only does Drac NEED to do them,,,,DSS may be acting out because I am not there to do them & Drac is NOT doing them.

I kept it fairly short,,, as I could have really gone on & on. Drac said "Thanks for taking the call".

My reply, "He is MY SON. There's nothing I wouldn't do for him."

Silence from Drac.

I said "I gotta go".

Guys, I KNOW he is manipulating me into the co-parenting thing. I KNOW i have to put a stop to it,,,,but this is my SON?!?

Please help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Bugs:

You will have to set your boundaries or this will continue FOREVER...

I have sons whom I've raised into adolescence..


FAILING ONE SUBJECT IS NOT A MAJOR CATASTROPHE....

It's your call, Bugs.

It's gonna be a matter of whether you want to continue to coparent or work on RECOVERY.

IMO, in the long run, RECOVERY would be more in your son's best interest than the use of him by his father to get to you.

Perfect time to write that letter..Arrange that LUNCH...

Do what YOU can for your SON..when he is with you..and YOU can certainly communicate directly with his teacher...

No need to HELP Drac..

It's all about HIM and HIS SELFISH NEED for you to meet HIS NEEDS..not caring about you..disrespecting you. divorcing you to be with another woman and then USING you, yes, USING you when it's CONVENIENT..in the guise of HELPING his son..I see that as being a NARCISSISTIC PARENT..and it SICKENS ME..YUCK..and it will begin to SICKEN you ..and the LOVEBANK will begin to dwindle down even further...THEN, will you be able to HELP your son????

REMEMBER..you only have CONTROL over YOURSELF...