I would not recommend allowing your wife to move back in with you yet. IMHO if she has yet to express any realization/gratitude for the way you took care of her needs in the past, and she is not expressing any desire to restore the relationship, then why read any positive result into her living with you again? She obviously just wants her free ride back again, without even having to acknowledge what you provide for her, let alone giving anything to you in return.

Is your divorce final now?

Think about this: It may seem OK, normal even, for you and her to do things together now, maybe even live together again... but what about if/when you meet a woman with the maturity and desire to do things for you and to be in a whole relationship with you? Obviously if/when you marry another you will not be free to do the sort of things with your ex-wife like going out to eat together, helping her buy or move new furniture, letting her skip child support payments, letting her even think moving back in with you is a possibility!

If I were you I would tell her that since you are (divorced?divorcing?) and that's what she said she wanted (right?) then it's time you two stopped doing anything together that you would have to stop anyway once either of you married another. If you were engaged or married to another woman you would not be sitting with your ex-wife at Starbucks long enough to sip something right? You would just drop your son off with her, talk strictly about when to pick him back up, and then leave. And she most definitely would not be thinking about moving back in with you!

Another possibility is that she will meet another man but continue to sponge off of you as long as possible. You were more than willing and able to meet her needs but she took you for granted and rejected you. Maybe you're afraid that if you won't continue to take care of her she might find some other man to take care of her? That could be, but that's not a good enough excuse for you to put up with being in a one-way relationship. Have you seriously considered that even if you did continue to meet her needs, that it is highly probable that she might become involved with another man anyway? And then you might be unknowingly providing for them both in some ways!

(BTW, being all giver and no taker because of a fear that she may find another man is evidence of emotional abuse. We all have to deal with the real fear that our mates may leave us for another, but when one mate bends over backwards to give while the other just takes, it's not normal or healthy. And really if you believe that she could/would replace you that easily, wouldn't it just confirm that all you meant to her was a meal-ticket?)

I think you are still doing too much for and WITH her.
Has she expressed any genuine acknowledgement and appreciation for what you've provided for her so far?

If you allow her to move in with you I think you will end up feeling justifiably used.

Now, on the other hand, is it possible that there is some medical reason for her not having SF with you since the birth of your son? Did she suffer post-partum depression? Has she talked to her doctor about the sudden change in your relations since the birth? For that matter have you talked to a MC about the change in your marriage after your son's birth?

Also, did she gain a lot of weight with pregnancy? Has her body image or self-esteem changed since the pregnancy? For some women it may be difficult to enjoy SF if they don't view themselves as attractive. And it's not always enough that their mate finds them attractive if they themselves don't feel good about how they look. Apparently this is very different for males... LOL

AdamRemick, you are right. I have no plans to rush into this right away. She has 3 weeks before she has to move. I am going to give her that time to process things and allow her to approach me. I (hopefully) am not going to offer it up to her. That would be the old me and I do not want that.

meremortal, I do understand what you are saying. It is pretty much the same thing I tell myself. I would not allow us to get back together without first tackling the issues that have tore us apart. I do not want to return to the same situation we had.

I, my W and our S have been spending some time together. Thursday she called to talk to our S after work as she does every day and asked if she could come see him, because she was missing him. I told her we had plans to go to the movie together (he had his kindergarten shots, so I told him I would take him) but, if she would like she is invited to go. She said she would love to, but was hungry and wanted to know if we wanted to meet to go to eat first. We agreed and did so. We had a great evening out, the three of us. Very playful and interactive. We followed her to her house, she had some business mail of mine and when we got there she was very cold to both me and our son. Kind of a 180 from 15 minutes before.

I had mentioned to her during our outing, that I really wanted to go to see the new "Bourne" movie at the drive-in movie (something we used to do almost weekly before) over the weekend and that I did not want to go alone with our S and asked if she would be interested. She said that that would be fun, let's do it tomorrow on Friday. After the cold send off we received on Thursday, I kind of just figured our outing for Friday would not happen. To my surprise, when she called on Friday to talk to S, she asked me where we should go eat before the movie. We once again had a great afternoon and evening together, about 5 hours worth. We'll when I dropped them off at her house (son was staying over for her weekend visitation) she once again became very cold to me. She had even locked herself out of her house and I got a window open for her so she could get in. To which I did not even receive a thank you. I told her I had a really fun evening and thanked her for going to the movie with me and spending time with me. To which she replied half heartedly, yeah I had fun also. Then she closed the door in my face.

I understand the roller coaster syndrome, but why the instant cold should when our time together is coming to an end? I know she is not happy with her living conditions. Could it be because she hates to go home to it? Or could she maybe be enjoying our time together and gets sad when it comes to an end. Or does the end of our time together make her think that it would be nice if we were going home together, but I will not go back to living with that man. He caused me too much pain and I will not go back to living with him.

I recieve a lot of that hot and cold stuff as well. I have no idea what to make of it. One minute she is friendly and chatty and playful, and the next she picks an argument about something silly. I think a lot of it is that my wife is confused. Maybe trying to instigate to stir something up or see if I have truly changed my ways? You said that neither of you want to go back to that routine you were in, maybe it is a test of you to see if you are going to go back to that sad routine or if you really are going to continue working towards the happiness?

Just meet my wife to pick up my son from his weekend with her. We had no contact for the entire time. I usually call to see how they are. We meet in a parking lot near the freeway exit. She was pleasant. We made a little bit of humorous small talk and then I directed all my attention and comments to our S, just to see how she would react. At first she continued with a little bit of humor with me, but when she saw that I was not responding to it she looked puzzled. I continued to talk to our S and put him in & buckle him up in to my car all the time asking him about his weekend. She meanwhile was sitting in her car with her door open, as if waiting for something or maybe not. I walked around to my side of the car and told her, "OK thank you, good bye." She once again looked puzzled. We then both drove off.

I am not 100% sure what my motives were for what I did. Maybe, I was hurt that she or S. Did not call me. I guess I kind of wanted to see what kind of reaction I could get if I was not focusing all my attention on her like I usually do when we meet.

I typed up this letter to send to my wife, but wanted to post it her for input. I do not want to come across as manipulating or as the victim. I just want to express to her my thoughts and feeling, so any input is appreciated.

XXXX, I am writing this letter to you because I need some closure now that we are divorced and I hope it will help me to detach myself from you and help me to move on.

You expressed to me last Monday on our drive home several events that occurred between us early in our marriage, where I had committed several unacceptable acts towards you. Throwing water on you. Tearing your clothes. Pulling your hair and losing my temper over the lipstick in the laundry. There may even be others, but those are the ones you told me about. I do remember doing those things to you, but they never stood out in my mind. I have always asked you to give me examples of what I had done to you in the past for you to justify telling me that I have been mean to you for our entire marriage. We’ll when you told me about those terrible actions that I had performed against you and to hear the pain in your voice and to see the pain on your face, it made me realize how bad I had hurt you. I understand now how terrible they must have felt for you and how much they have caused you not to trust me. I fell truly awful for having put you through that. I feel awful that you have had to carry around all that pain and all those terrible memories for all these years. I also see how each time I lose my temper and let my anger get out of control, that it brings back those memories and you are afraid they will occur again. You have all the right to be angry and hurt for what I have put you through. It was not acceptable behavior then or ever will be. You are a very special person and never in a million years deserved to be treated that way. I am truly sorry!

I want to tell you how much I appreciate how you have been treating me over the past several weeks. I have really enjoyed the time we have spent together, except the Sun evening in CA. and the drive home on Monday, when I was being a total [censored] as usual. You have made me feel very special and like part of your life. Thank you. I think we have been getting along better and treating each better then we have for quite some time. It has been nice and very enjoyable. But, at the same time it saddens me, because now we are divorced and no longer together and these times are too few and far between and when they are over, we both go back to our separate lives. We both deserve to have these types of good times every day, all the time, not just on occasions. I hope that soon we both can find somehow or someone who will be there for us and care for us they way we deserve and we can care for them back. I know you will make someone very happy very soon, because you are a kind hearted, generous person, as am I.

I want you to know how proud I am of you. You are doing so great at becoming independent. You found someone to fix the window on your car, you are putting in applications for an apartment, and you bought your own bed. Your co-workers love you (but, then again who doesn’t). You got out of a job you hated last year and into one that you thought would fulfill you more, but sadly it has let you down. You are a strong person with lots to offer. Take pride of who you are and remember you can do whatever you want to. Don’t wait for someone else to make it happen. You can do it.
Lastly I want to express to you my gratitude to you for being such a loving and caring mother to our son. I know I have said some very hurtful comments to you during arguments about you. But there were not true and were only a pathetic attempt on my part to make myself to look stronger in my eyes. I see that the love you have for him is sincere and pure. It is the type of love that only a mother can have and you have a lot of it inside you to share with him. Your son loves you and like all men who love women, likes to tease you. I find it so cute and enduring how the two of you teasingly torment each other. At times it makes me jealous. I see the two of you having a very close loving relationship as our little boy progress through his life. Thank you for being you and thank you for being the mom that our son needs and deserves. Thank you.
XXXX, I wish we would not have allowed ourselves to selfishly pass each other by for the past 15 years and that we could have had the foresight to remove the blind folds from our eyes that were allowing use each to ignore one another’s needs and desires all these years. I only hope we can learn from our past mistakes and take a new understanding of how to meet the needs of others into our next relationships. I know I have learned a lot of what I have done wrong and what I need to change. I am working on me and trying to make myself a better, happier person, so in my next relationship I will not make the same terrible mistakes that I made you suffer through. I am sorry, that I did put you though what I did and wish I knew then what I know now. It is saddens me to think that you had to suffer and sacrifice your happiness over 15 years in order for me to see my shortcomings as a husband.
I want you to know that I will always be her for you and I will help you whenever or however I can. All you have to do is ask.

Warmly and gratefully yours.
XXXX

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Your subject line says you want her back - but you mention "next" relationships more than once in the letter.

If I were the recipient of this letter I'd interpret is as you giving me the heave-ho.

What is your intention? To draw her back, or push her away for good?

JinGA

I do want to be back with her. But, I has been a year now since I got the IMILWYB and things have not gotten all that much better between us. So my intentions are to lovingly detach myself from her. Give her her space and work on myself. And let whatever is going to happen between us happen. And this letter is sort of my way of trying to do that.

I wouldn't send that letter. It reads like a plea.

Ask yourself this question: can I handle her having a relationship with another man?

Odds are that she will meet someone else and most likely move on. Are you ready for that? Because if you aren't, you need to be.

In order to get on with your life you have to completely let go, which is easier said than done, believe me. If you don't this will eat you alive. I've seen it happen here many times.

No one can tell you what to do, all we can do is give you the benefit, perhaps limited, of our experiences.

into the black, I do not want it to sound like a plea and I wrote it in a way, were to it would not. Can point out some areas where you see it as pleading so I can make the needed changes.

It's not any one particular sentence, it's the overall tone. Though, the last line is bit over the top, IMHO.

While what you have written is from the heart, and I understand all too well the agony you have felt, if you must send a letter to DW you should keep it short-n-sweet. To wit:

Dear DW,

I am sorry that our marriage has ended in divorce. I want you to know that I would like to remain friends for the benefit of our son as he is the single most important thing in my life. To that end, should you need any help, I will do my best to accommodate you within my means. I wish you continued happiness in your future endeavors.

Kindest regards,
--Nugget

Honestly, I've never bought the "closure" thing. This is not directed at you, per se. More often than not "closure" is pop-psy speak for "give me one more chance". There is no harm in writing a friendly note saying that you want to be friends for the benefit of your child, but I think going beyond that is ultimately not healthy for you.

If you let yourself, with time, you will feel better. I promise.

Oh, and I wish YOU happiness with your future endeavors.

ITB

I see your POV.

I on other hand do believe in closure and when I have sought for it in other aspects of my life, it has done wonders to allow me to grow and move on.

My W called after work as she always does to talk to our son. We had talked a bit last week about starting to go to the gym together again like we were before we S. She asked me if I would like to go today and I told he I would like to go, but I have other plans, if we could go tomorrow that would be better for me. She said that would be good, she was a little tired after her Monday anyway. She said well I will go over to (friends) house then, is it ok if I take (son) so he can play. I said that would be great. That way I can get done what I need to this afternoon.

I had gone to the floral store today to get her a simple sunflower arrangement (her favorite) to give to her when I give her the letter. I was planning on giving it to her when I picked up our S from her later. But, when she got to our house she came in to use the bathroom, so I decided to give them to her now. I told her “Here I have something’s for you” (her mail, the flowers and the letter). Her face lit up. She said with a very excited tone "Flowers for me, why?" I replied “Because you deserve them for just being you.” To which she replied "They are so beautiful and they are sunflower my favorite. But, I do not deserve them." I said "But, of course you do." I told her that I was heading out for a couple of hours to take care of something’s and that I would call when I was heading back home to pick up S. She said that sounds great, call me. And she then again thanked me for the flowers. As she was heading out the door she commented to our son "See my beautiful flowers, aren't they so pretty." Made me feel good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Picked up a new book called "Codependent No More - how to stop controlling others and start caring for yourself" by Melody Beattie. I am half way through it and it is also helping me greatly to detach and feel better about myself and my situation. I recommend it to anyone is is struggling with codependency or detachment.

The information on this webpage has also helped me greatly with detachment.

http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm

Thanks for the good reads sir! The website was beneficial in itself, I cant wait to get the book!

Has any progress been made either in the relationship?

A little write up I found today while surfing.

If I've searched out books or outside insight to help me find answers to relationship difficulties, I may have come across the phrase "detachment with love". What exactly does this mean?
To detach, means to let go - not in the sense of leaving the relationship, but in letting go of my wishful thinking that somehow I can get my partner to change. When I detach with love, I make a conscious decision to stop reacting to things they do. Instead, I try to make choices that are best for me in any given situation.
On the surface, detachment sounds uncaring. It's not however unless I choose to stop caring. For example, if my SO growls at me for something they feel I should have done, I can detach from their anger. They have a right to their emotions, just as I have a right to mine. I can choose not to respond to their anger with anger of my own; instead, I can simply respond in ways that acknowledge their feelings, or even not respond at all, if that feels best.
When I detach, I find myself being able to love my SO's good qualities more without their faults dragging me down.

Just for Today
Today if I find myself reacting to my partner's choices or feelings, I'll remember that I have no real power over them. Conversely, the only real power my partner has over my choices and feelings is the power I give them. Whatever thoughts and emotions I have, let them be truly mine, and let the same apply to them.

It is one of the beautiful compensations of life that no man can sincerely try to be kind to another, without helping himself. - Bailey

``Letting Go''
To `let go'' does not mean to stop caring.
It means I can't do it for someone else.
To ``let go'' is not to cut myself off.
It's the realization I can't control another.
To ``let go'' is not to enable,
but to allow learning from natural consequences.
To ``let go'' is to admit powerlessness
which means the outcome is not in my hands.
To ``let go'' is not to try to change or blame another.
It's to make the most of myself.
To ``let go'' is not to care for, but to care about.
To ``let go'' is not to fix, but to be supportive.
To ``let go'' is not to judge,
but to allow another to be a human being.
To ``let go'' is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes,
but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
To ``let go'' is not to be protective.
It's to permit another to face reality.
To ``let go'' is not to deny, but to accept.
To ``let go'' is not to nag, scold, or argue,
but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
To ``let go'' is not to criticize and regulate anybody,
but to try to become what I dream I can be.
To ``let go'' is not to adjust everything to my desires
but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.
To ``let go'' is to not regret the past,
but to grow and live for the future.
To ``let go'' is to fear less and LOVE MYSELF MORE!

I have been working on my M for almost a year now and I understand more and more every day.

Yesterday I helped my wife move out of her friend’s house. She is going to live with another friend now, until she can afford a place of her own. Sad thing about her new living arrangement is that she will be sharing a bed with her friend and I know she is not looking forward to that. I and my son are living with my mother, temporarily (for the love of God I hope so) and she is out of town until Sat. So, I asked my wife if she would like to stay with us until my mother comes back. I told her there are two empty beds and she can sleep in my mother’s bed with S (cloud like king size pillow top with clean sheets). She said that would be really good. So, she is staying with us for a few days.

I made us a nice meal last night, something neither one of us has had since we separated. Then we watched a movie together, I massaged her feet, we had an enjoyable evening. Instead of going to sleep in my mother bed, she slept with S and me in our bed. Her alarm did not go off and I had to wake her (45 minutes late). I got her a towel, turned on the shower for her, she was getting the iron out for her clothes and I told her "Here let me do it, you go shower." I made us coffee and her a light breakfast to take in the car. I asked her what shoes she wanted to wear and she said I don't know, black ones, so I laid out all her black ones on the table so she could pick a pair. She got ready and I handed her her coffee and breakfast as she ran out the door. She was very appreciative and thanked me several times during the morning.

Nothing I did this morning was any different then how I have been with her for about the past year (prior to a year ago is a different story). Except for one thing. I committed no love busters. After she left, I was thinking to myself, Self, you are a pretty good guy. Anyone would appreciate you. So, why is it that your W wants nothing to do with you? Why does she not want to work on things? Why does she want to be on her own? One reason, "LOVE BUSTERS"

I realized that in my relationship, acts of love busters (anger, pity, fear, guilt, pressure, sadness, etc.) have 100% times more effect on our spouses right now then any act of love or caring. I can secrete acts of love all week long and feel great about things and then slip up and commit one tiny act of love busting and it will totally wipe out my whole week’s worth of effort and maybe even more. I sat back and thought about the past couple of months and our interactions. I see 95% of it as good productive interactions, where you were both enjoying each other company. But, then I see the 5% of LBs that I have committed and I see the damage and the set back that they cause. My wife is in a vulnerable state emotionally with me right now. A lot of her acts show me that she wants to be with me and she does not want it to be over. But, my constant acts of LBers, no matter how small or insignificant I may think they are, they have a huge impact on her and remind her of the jerk I was before.

I have to commit 100% to acts of love and 0% to LBs, if I want a snowballs chance in h*ll.

Im really hoping everything works out for you two. Have you ever considered the fact that she may not show interest because of all the love busters? Maybe she needs more time to see that the person you now are is there to stay.

Yeah, that is kind of what my last post in this thread is all about.