Thanks for your thoughtful post nab. It'd helpful to hear from people who have been through this twice.

As far as the kids go, realize my SIL just found out on 7/4 that the A is ongoing. Instead of blasting her kids from left field about the A immediately she gave them a head's up last week that the M was having troubles in order to prepare them. She also has every intention of telling them, probably within the next week or so.

In my case it was trickier. H did dump OW in the midst of the A and I never had to expose. Our boys did not have one clue the A was going on during the A and were very happy that year. I hid my pain very well, that is until d-day. H's IC works with adolescents and what he told us to do with our boys was this. He did not recommend we outright tell them about the A.Instead he said to give them the opportunity to talk, by mentioning to them we were having some trouble and do they have any questions, want to talk, etc. I actually let H do that because I wasn't capable at the time. H did and the boys didn't want to talk.

Was that the right move? I don't know! Either way, telling or not telling, it sucks. I know my boys are doing very well now. Whatever they knew or didn't know they saw us spending a lot of time together, witnessed much talking, and also witnessed lots of love and affection. I wonder when they are both men if we should tell them so they can protect themselves in the future. I'm sure H would never want to tell them. Also, if this ever happened again I would tell them. Twice around is a different story with different methods.

CV ~

I am not a pro either, but thought I would chime in... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My FWH did not have multiple As, though it felt like that because of the false recovery....I still had 2 days, they both sucked, and I absolutely could not understand how he could do this to me AGAIN.

He SAW what happened to me the first time around ~ saw me fall on the ground in a puddle of tears, saw me get physically sick, saw me not eat and not sleep for months ~ yet, he continued on in the A for 10 more months, resulting in yet another horrible D-day for me.

It's all part of the "entitled wayward fog", or whatever you want to call it.

Here is what I did, and this is really the only option for you SIL, IMO, because I have been there:

-Scorched earth, enormously widespread exposure. She should contact anyone and everyone who might be willing to put pressure on the infidels to end their affair.

-Encourage her to word it just like that, she does not want to look like a mean, vindictive b***ch (though she is certainly entitled to be one after all of this!!!) ~ she must let everyone know that she is trying to SAVE HER MARRIAGE.

-Then straight into a very dark Plan B, with a very nice Plan B letter on his way out the door with VERY clear instructions on what he needs to do in order for her to attempt recovery. Change the locks, pack up all of his stuff, leave it outside for him to pick up, and stay dark. She's going to go ballistic on him if she keeps seeing him, and she'll start LB'ing all over the place.

The second time around like this, there is no room for a Plan A. I would bet she's been doing some sort of a Plan A for a while anyhow...like I was. It didn't matter, FWH was so freaking fogged out he couldn't even see it. I knew I could not Plan A him for one more stinking day. If I kept seeing him I was probably going to kill him, no kidding.

The hurt and anger is so huge the second time around ~ if you thought you were crazy with hurt and pain the FIRST time, you cannot imagine what it's like the second time around. It's unfreakingbearable.

She should expose, then lights out ~ gone. Let him see what life is going to be like without her, and she needs to get away from him too, she is in her own BS Fog, like I was.

It wasn't until I was deep in Plan B that I was able to see what a doormat I had been, and how much cr*p I had tolerated.

Hopefully she will see the same.

MF, I was hoping you would stop by. As far as I'm concerned you are a pro, in fact the Queen B of exposure. I have never seen anyone here on MB do a more magnificent job of that than you. If my SIL decides to go forward with Plan B and exposure I hope you will help and guide her.Thanks!

Thank you, CV, I am very honored...

I would be happy to help your SIL if she comes to the forums and needs help and guidance...both exposure and going into Plan B are very hard.

Exposure is particularly mortifying if she did any sort of exposure the first time...it is beyond humiliating to have to tell people that your H is still cheating on you, and that you (being the dumba** in their eyes) still want to save the M.

If she registers, LMK and I will bump my exposure thread for her to read over, and then she ask questions and we can all guide her through.

I really feel for her, the second time around is incredibly hard, sickening and unbelievable. The pain is enormous, and it doesn't go away anytime soon.

MF thanks! Hopefully she will be able to read through all these posts tonight and review what Dr. Harley writes about Plan B. You will be a great resource to her if she decides to go forward with this.

I realized I never thanked you Krusht for your post. Every comment has been appreciated.

CV,

No worries.

I'm glad my thoughts were in sync with the rest of the group.

We could make this an MB rule of action for A #2 by the same low life WS.

When you think hard about it it is SOOOO INHUMAN and unexcusable. SOOO SELFISH!!! SO EVIL!!

kirk

I agree with MF and SD.

Gather the proof of the affair. Nuclear exposure to everyone, especially the children (and to OW's family, too).. Immediate plan B with very firm conditions as to what he has to do in order to be taken back. Legal separation that lets him know what his alimony and child support payments will look like.

That should be enough to snap him out of the fog. If he wants to stay married, he MUST jump through every one of her hoops before she allows it.

BTW, the children MUST know.

My FWH had two affairs, almost back to back. HAD I KNOWN about MB (which makes me a non-pro), I would have absolutely exposed to God and everyone. I didn't though and it was TRAGICALLY harder than it should have been for me and my kids.

I agree with the others, expose to everyone. I tried to "protect" his image, all pre-MB. It is counter-intuitive to expose in some ways, but it slowed the recovery process by not exposing. This would also help in preventing multiple D-days, hopefully.

Orchid: Her status doesn't really matter. Remember the A virus is a selfish one. She c/b 10x richer and still want what your SIL has. Basically the OW wants the WS because he isn't hers. Help your SIl focus correctly. Then she will know what t/d.



Orchid: If she has done a good plan A, then no need to redo it. Make sure her mind and heart are in sync. Vital in order t/d a good plan B. Multiple A's are not a good sign.

The point is where is he now? Still in the fog? If so, she needs to protect herself and her family and remove the WS from their lives. If he needs to sleep in his car, let him. No sympathy for a WS. Save the love for her real H.



Orchid: Ha! That's funny. Your H didn't want t/b used as an example? Hm.... you can use that piece of info to your advantage whenever he slips backwards. Maybe not to an A but if he ever starts babbling.... you've got proof he knows he was an alien. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So don't use his name. Use examples from here or even his, just don't disclose who. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Kirk wrote:

"We could make this an MB rule of action for A #2 by the same low life WS.

When you think hard about it it is SOOOO INHUMAN and unexcusable. SOOO SELFISH!!! SO EVIL!!"

Kirk, it really is difficult to comprehend someone doing this to the BS twice. Once a BS still struggles endlessly with wondering how their S could make those choices to betray. Yet we learn also the slippery slope into these As. Doing this twice, there is no excuse.

BTW, I try to ackowledge people's posts because I know what it's like when I take the time to post and I'm not even sure if the person has read the post. So a blanket thanks to everyone in case I do forget my thank you's.

I familiarized SIL with MB last night to help her get a quick start. She was writing a post to you all when she got a phone call and then it was too late. Today is her son's b-day and with work she as yet can't post. I offered to post for her if she could e-mail me her main concern right now. This is what she wrote for you all. Well my stupid computer isn't letting me get to my e-mail. So I need to log off here and get it. Will be right back!

Sil's concerns for you all.

"The timing and logistics of kicking him out is my #1 concern regarding the children. He comes back in town from business Thursday, July 26th in the evening. My 19 year old daughter is out of the country on a mission trip until Mon., July 30th at midnight. I don't want to blast her with this the first day she is home, and she and I both have to work the rest of the week. He leaves town for work on Wed., Aug 1st until Friday, Aug 3rd. I thought I would tell hime this weekend that he has to move out next Sat., Aug. 4th and that he has to tell the kids why. This way the kids and I will have Sunday, Aug. 5th to regroup before the work week.

I have a meeting with an attorney on Friday, Aug. 3rd.

Thanks for your concern and feedback."

Also a question from me. What is the legality of kicking someone out of their home and changing the locks? Just curious!

Sounds like a plan and if she can hold off until then, it might work. If her kids knew she was prolonging her suffering for their sake, they may not want it that way. Hard to tell. Still bringing them up to speed and getting a solid support group with them included is a good thing.

The other piece to worry about is what will the WS do in the meantime and will she be able to handle it? They c/b very mean when they know the axe is coming. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

As for the changing the locks....if she is in CA, it's not suppose to happen but if you do so (like I did) and even if the police find out, they may warn you but no jail time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I changed the deadbolt in 2 places but left the door lock the same. So I basically had the best of both worlds. When he acted up, the deadbolt kept us safe him out there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid, I've been giving her advice, but is it bad advice? I told her that it's very important that he has to tell the kids he's moving out and exactly why. My thoughts being it is a major consequence he has to face. So I think that also effects how she times everything.

CV ~

First of all, has she EXPOSED yet????

That really is the first step, she needs to take care of that ASAP.

And you are really going to need to be there for her during that, and if she starts posting here, we can all guide and support and encourage her as well.

Exposure knocked me flat on my butt, it was a killer. Adrenaline got me through all of my exposure, but man, I crashed and burned right after. It is D*MN hard to expose, especially the second time, and especially if she goes nuclear.

The same happened with going INTO Plan B ~ I was fine getting the locks changed, writing my letter, packing all of his stuff up...but then I crashed and burned again, big time.

I am in CA too and I did not even know about the whole law thing regarding changing the locks, and to tell you the truth I am glad I didn't know. To be safe, she should probably find out what the law in her state is.


Then yes, she should tell him that he needs to leave, and if he agrees (which I doubt), she should give him the Plan B letter as he leaves, explaining VERY CLEARLY that there will be NO CONTACT between them (SIL and BIL, that is). And if he does NOT agree to move out, that is when she does whatever the law allows her to do in order to get him out of the house.

Has she found an intermediary? Someone to pass all pertinent information back and forth between them? Having an intermediary is CRUCIAL during Plan B, I think a lof of Plan Bs fail because the BS does not realize the cruciality of NO CONTACT between them and WS.

[BTW, Steve Harley explains the role of an intermediary like this: they are a SPAM FILTER ~ they pass only FACTS and PERTINENT information back and forth. NO touchy-feely stuff, no non-important info.].

I will try to find my exposure threads (I had two going, on on the Recovery board and one on GQII) and bump them for her....I hope they help.

She can't just kick him out, but she can ASK him to move out or she can get a legal seperation that stipulates his moving out possibly. It is NOT illegal to change the locks on your own house. However, he can LEGALLY re-enter the house if he presses the issue. MOST NEVER DO THIS. So the worst that can happen if she changes her locks is that she can forced to let him back in. I have never seen a guilt ridden WS go to the trouble of getting back inside in all the years I have been here.

About telling the kids. I am very leery about HIM telling them, because you know how the typical wayward lies and spins. The goal here is to tell the kids the truth, and that may best come from HER, not him. The worst thing she could do is allow him to tell them ALONE. Truly, there is no advantage to him doing the telling, but lots of potential pitfalls, so I would recommend SHE do the telling.

MF. thanks for bumping your thread, and for offering your assistance. I spoke to SIL for a long time today and truthfully I think Plan D is beginning to look good to her. And I wouldn't blame her this 2nd time around. I told her I'd support whatever she decides, but as people have said here, that FWH of hers will need to initiate and do major work to even get back in the door. I told her Plan B will allow her to have some breathing room and she doesn't have to decide anything about Ding him yet.

Anyway, she was asking me questions about Plan B and that ain't my forte. I never had to do the entire shock and awe with my H. Just the thought of receiving my wrath got him on the right path. I told her that I hope she can post soon and ask her specific questions to those of you who know the ropes. I did tell her about the intermediary. I wasn't sure what kind of a Plan B she'd have to do if she isn't even sure she wants him in her life now. She's not in the "fighting for her M" mode anymore, especially like she was the 1st time around. I did say that even if she does want a D, by breaking up the A she won't have to deal with the yucky OW.

Mel, I'm so glad you came by here. As I wrote above, my thought for him telling the kids is that it would be a major consequence for him. SIL would be right there, and would correct anything foggy that came out of his mouth. The kids are going to be devestated and angry no matter who tells them, so why shouldn't he witness the destruction he's causing 1st hand?

Thanks so much! You all are the greatest. I remember when I was on GQ writing my brands out. You all saved me back then. It's good to know I can recommend this place to others who are in trouble.