Hi All,

I'm a frequent lurker, infrequent poster.
Background:
Me: 35
Husband: 37
Two daughters: 6 and 3

About 3 years ago I found out my husband was lying about where he was, money (gambling), and buying a fake bachelors degree. When I confronted him with it he was angry at first and it took me providing him witht he proof for him to confess. I asked him to go to counseling, he wouldn't. I went for several sessions and got some good insight on how to make him feel safe with me. I tried to consciuosly meet what I think are his highest EN's (he refused to complete any marriagebuilders material). Finally after two years I was able to believe him without second guessing anything he said.

Here I am 3 years later and I found similar lies (gambling, hidden money (of which I still don't know the source becauseI handle all of our finances), he is still putting his "degree" on his resume, and now he has a myspace profile established a year ago stating he is single and does not want kids (I consider this infidelity).

A week ago I confronted him with my knowledge of these things. I told him that the myspace profile alone is cheating to me. I told him I can't have amarriage where I cannot trust my husband. he was quite calm in his repsonses this time (perhaos because he knew that I would have proof of all his lies). I told him I want this marriage but not at the state it is currently in. I gave him a list of things I need from him to begin rebuilding trust. The list included: names/phone#'s of all his friends (most are former coworkers that I've only met once, briefly). I needed his cell phone records, passwords, and so on. I aslo said we need counseling. His response was he doesn't think it iwll help. Let's try to fix it on our own (which got us nowhere last time). He said he'd go to one session but if he feels uncomfortable he probably won't go back.

It's been a little over a week since "D-day" and I have not received anything from the list. I have metnioned that I need these things several times over the course of the week. Do I keep asking for these things ad nauseum? Everyday I don't see action on his part depletes love units. I am still trying to meet his EN's but the admiration need is very difficult in this atmosphere. The last two nights I've been having nightmares (mostly about finding more lies and telling him what's really on my mind-since I can't do that IRL). I feel a little lost. We have a MC session next week but I feel like I am not conveying the level of impact this has done to me. I don't think he realizes the damage this has caused. I think he's hoping to shove it under the rug and go on as if it didn't happen. He says he doesn't want to lose me or the girls but words are hollow at this point. I need action! I really fell powerless right now waiting for him to make a move.

Laura

You have very good reasons to be worried.

Put a spy program on the computer. Get a keylogger and configure your spy protection software to ignore the program. This will let you get his passwords.

My ex did the same thing with myspace. It was anything but innocent.

Good luck. Sorry you're here.

You're not crazy.

Make sure your words do not become as hollow as his. And yes, you need action...so get busy, with your actions.

Boundaries are meaningless if not enforced. Decide what your boundaries are, and then enforce them.

What are you willing to live with? What are you willing to have your children live with? What kind of example would you set for them?

He does not seem to value honesty, until that changes it is up to you to become intimate with your own values, and then to live by them.

I'm sorry, but I don't like gambling and I don't like lying, and I especially don't like married people who lie about being single.

Stick around and keep posting this time and get some ideas of boundaries.

Remember, we can not will another person to change, we cannot threaten another person into change, we cannot word another person to change...all we can do is change ourselves and hope that this would inspire a positive change in them as well.

I know I cannot live with the continued deceit. I need him to be an open book. That is why I asked for names/numbers/cell phone records, etc. How long do I wait and keep asking for these things before I enforce boundaries (unfortunatley I don't see any other boundary to this except Plan B or Plan D). How long should I do plan A before going ot plan B? Theoretically I've been doing a relatively good plan A since the confrontation 3 years ago. I've been really good at little to no LB's and meeting his EN's to the best that I can figure. Perhaps it was unrealistitc to expect that he would bend over backwords to prove he doesn't want to lose me. He has yet to give me a satisfactory response to why he posted his myspace profile (his comment was he doesn't remember). How do I do a good plan A and still probe for an honest answer to some of these questions?

Laura

Pretty much living Plan A for the past three years and living this before with him, the boundary should have been enforced upon discovery of the deceit.

If I were you, there would have been very little talk and a whole lot of action after this recent discovery. And he is not going to respond to anything less, at least not long term and apparently not short term either.

What about the gambling? What about the hidden money?

This is your families finances he is gambling with. And lying about it.

You should be securing your finances, and making moves to protect yourself and you children financially, as well as emotionally.

You are right. I consider myself a relatively intelligent woman but for some reason, my common sense gene gets turned off when dealing with this crap. I guess I will begin to get things in order (i.e., finances, children issues, etc) and prepare for a plan B. Considering there are children involved, should my plan B include a legal separation agreement? I have not yet talked to a lawyer. I'm afraid my inaction from 3 years ago is going to require me to pull out the big guns this time around in order to create the change I need for our marriage to have a chance to recover properly.

Sorry- just bumping up to find out if I'm jumping the gun. The myspace profile indicates a tendency to cheat but he has not verified any ongoing affair let alone admitted to remembering establishing that profile. He has demonstrated that he cannot be trustworthy even in a safe environment. He has not done anything since D-day to make amends for his actions. His gambing addiction is not going to go away on his own. I can't make him do anything but I don't think he realizes he has anything to lose.

Well, I guess I've been thinking out loud a little here. I think the only way to enforce my boundaries is to put it on the line. I will not stay in a marriage where I am disrespected with lies, cheating, etc. and not require some action toward change.

Thanks for letting me vent a little

The fake degree says he wants the prestige but not go through the work. In other words he wants the easy way. You and your children are the easy way.

What do you possibly hope to accomplish by extending a three year old Plan A?

This man has NO reason to change anything about himself...heck it appears that you will take any lie he tosses at you.

I know this is against the MB credo but this man needs a very strong dose of reality. Toss his butt out,now. You may drive him into the arms of another woman but he will end up there anyway before he can get a proper perspective on his life.

As he walks out the door, casually toss out the fact that on any future job you will be notifying the HR department about his "degree". When he gulps, make sure he knows that his future earnings will continue to be due to his children and you and you will not let his lying lead to the loss of a job.

He will go ballistic. Liars will frequently claim they despise liars. He will be angry at you for pointing out his hypocrisy. He will be furious at the thought it may be pointed out to others.

Yes.

You have an obligation to protect yourself and your children financially from his antics. My mother was a compulsive gambler who lost almost all her and my dad's money. He never had to use credit, not even for cars. Never could stand credit card companies but when she died we found a credit card with over 40 grand owed on it.

My ex was a con artist and I lost a valuable peice of real estate to him. Please don't be stupid like I was.

And I agree whole-heartedly with Cymanca on the fake degree issue.

Update-

Talked to husband about the list of things I needed from him. He had already started to prepare the list of friends and phone numbers yesterday. I asked about the cell phone records and he was surprised that I wanted these things as soon as possible. I guess I should've been more demanding (but I didn't want to LB). He says he doesn't remember the password to the myspace account. He says the only reason he has a female friend on his account was to look at pictures. He still doesn't acknowledge the seriousness of actually posting as a single man who doesn't want kids. He said the money I found in his truck and wallet was from selling on ebay (and I guess craigslist too). I said several hundred dollars could not come from just selling little things here and there. He said some of the money is from winnings as well. I had also requested that he get checked for STD's (his reply " have you been checked yet?"). He was upset that I asked that he limit his online activities to when I am present. Complained that he shouldn’t have to feel like a kept man. He said that if I can't have an ounce of trust in him, this isn't going to work. He says he's willing to comply with my list (has given me his cell phone online account ID/password). Our conversation ended with him stating how this is ridiculous. I left the room because it was becoming an unproductive argument.

I so want to trust him but I am afraid to. His gambling as far as I know has been kept at bay- but the fact that he has to lie about it is wrong. His "I don’t remember" response and lack of rationale for the myspace page is baffling. He may have not had any interaction with another woman but I don't know for sure. Without an honest view of his activities my mind assumes the worst.

I already told him he has to take that degree off his resume. Should I be confirming this every time he sends out a resume?

I keep vacillating on wanting to believe and anger that there is still a lot unknown (probably more than I realize).

I don't think he would take money from our savings and his credit report is clean. Perhaps I'm jumping the gun. This seems so hard!!

The bigger truth is that you shouldn't have to be married to an untrustworthy man, and that you shouldn't have to act as the truth police, or his mother.


Have you figured out your boundaries yet? Once you do, state them confidantly and softly. When they are crossed again, file for separation (legally) with you remaining in the house with the children.

"I will not live with a man who is not trustworthy"

"I will not live with a man who is unfaithful"

"I will not live with a man who holds secrets about our money"

What ever your boundaries are, but probably something of what I posted above.

This game you are playing with him is not going to get you anywhere other than where you are now. It's a game, not a partnership between two married adults who are working together for the good of each other and the family.

That comment he made about you being tested for STD's and him having to be a kept man pretty much shows the rules of the game, and you are playing along.

Trust your gut, be vigilant and next time you find proof of his lying, unfaithful activities (such as myspace, unaccounted for time, strange girls, fake degrees, I.D.'s, unaccounted for money or loss there off) assume the worst and enforce your boundaries. Right away. No talk, only action. That is the only thing that is going to change anything for you, and if it doesn't...well do you want to live you life in anger and fear, on hyperalert...or worse, questioning you own sanity?

Ha--this just happened to me last night--myspace account in H's name--listed himself as single, doesn't want kids,lives in Alabama(?news to me).

The internet (other than MB, of course) is EVIL.

RLT-
I saw your thread and had to laugh as well.

Is there a way I can put some kind of "parental control" where I can block certain websites from being accessed at home?

weaver- my boundaries are exactly what you stated.

You're right- I have been playing this game of next time...Next time I catch him in a lie, next time I find out a secret...next time..

This is it!! - change has to happen now or we're done!!

AWiP, I don't know about parental controls, one way or other other.

Is your husband still active on the myspace account?

There are programs you can install to monitor your husband's Internet usage that will email you the webpages he has been on. The Promise Keepers website offers a service similar to this, but I believe you can buy the computer software to do this for less than $30. I'm sorry, but I don't have the name of the program. I think if you Google "spyware" or "Internet Monitoring Software" you may find something. I don't recommend a filter. Your husband will know that he is being denied access to various websites. You'd be better off to secretly install one of the spyware programs and catch him in the act.

My heart goes out to you.

God Bless.

key log his computer...the best way to get info is to check where they think they are safe to communicate in private.

Update-

Our weekend was pleasant. We spent a lot of family time together. OUr internet is conveniently not working at home- so I have not had to rush to monitor that. I was able to get my H's cell phone records. On a night in which I was out with some friends, my H talked for 87 minutes to a certain number (not on his list of friends he gave me). I called it yesterday and got the voicemail of a girl named Jenny. My H and I do not have a friend named Jenny. I hope to be able to call when she picks up the phone so I can find out how she knows my husband. Here we go!

OK-

I called the number again and Jenny answered. She knows my husband from a previous job. I feel like such a psycho!! I am suspicious of everything!!! I hate having to do all this snooping just to feel safe that there isn't more!! Who talks to a former coworker for 1 1/2 hours on the phone?! What would you have to say?!

he's hiding it then he's doing something wrong!