hmmmmmmm, now I am even more confused about your position, MrG. You stated in your previous post the situation should not matter, what should matter is if the person WANTED TO save their marriage.


You stated the situation DOES NOT MATTER and now you say it DOES. In case No 1 and Case No 2, all that should matter, according your initial standard is what THEY WANT.

So, which is it?

Wow, I must have missed the whole point of MarriageBuilders. Imagine that. I always thought the purpose was to build marriages, and not worry too much whether or not they SHOULD be built.

I can think of a number of marriages here that I don't think should have been saved. I can think of some that I believe that the BS was just afraid to go on alone, but might have led a happier life WITHOUT saving the marriage.

There are a few that I post to where, if I were married to that particular WS, I would not make the effort to save the marriage. But since they are in the marriage, and they DO want to save it, I offer support and ideas.

Obviously in cases where there is a threat to the safety of a spouse or children, I advise folks to leave.

In my everyday life, I see some marriages that I can't figure out WHY they stay together. But I still support the marriage itself.

Gee, I must have missed the part where it says ALL MARRIAGES SHOULD BE SAVED at any cost. Guess we oughta let Dr. Harley know too.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Believer, so you are now changing this position you posted at the beginning of this thread?

believer wrote:

Sometimes or all of the time? Under what circumstances, in your opinion, would it be stupid and ill thought to save such marriages? That is, I think, the crux of this discussion.



Of course, you can shock me and point out the Doctor’s specific quote but I am quite sure that his actual words have quit a different meaning and context. Does he believe and did he say that “young marriages without children are better off not saving”? If I am wrong you have my apology in advance. I believe he qualifies that statement with words like “sometimes” or “under certain circumstances”.

The second item in the above quote is your assertion that you are merely “imparting his (Dr. Harley’s) opinion” by advising young couples without children to divorce. I think that the idea of divorce cannot be adequately defended just on the basis of youth and the absence of children. I can’t help but believe that any decision or advice for a couple to divorce is much, much more complex then the isolated part, “young without children”.



I didn’t know that I was here for the purpose of learning Dr. Harley’s opinions. Thank you for setting me straight on that one. I’ll clear up my motivations for being here; I am here because my life was touched by infidelity. Through this experience I came to understand some basic truths regarding love and marriage. These truths are the reason I was able to recover and save my relationship with my wife. They are the reason that she was able to return to the marriage. I stop here on occasion to pass that wisdom to others who wish to SAVE their marriages touched by infidelity. I don’t think Dr. Harley’s views are opinions at all. Rather, I think that he has identified certain philosophical truths. That all marriages that are young and without children is alone enough to defend a divorce is a position that I reject.

Talk to you latter,

Mr. G

No, I don't think so at all. We are not discussing hypothetical cases, but a general principle. And in principle you have stated that any marriage should be saved just because a person "WANTS" it. This is what I object to. Discussing hypothetical cases is a rabbit chase down the rabbit hole that just diverts from the issue at hand, IMO.


You are free to post the quote to support your opinion that his actual words have a "different meaning and context."


But how does that substantiate your assertion that it is a lovebuster, "disrespectful judgement," to tell someone to "cut their losses?" I am not getting the connection, MrG. Sorry.. It seems you are trying to change the subject, to be quite honest.

You are wearing me out. And Melody how is it that they come to learn what they want. How is it that ANYONE comes to learn new things? It is through education. Here, that education comes from folks like you and me.

Give them the tools and they will make the best decision for themselves. I believe that I have been consistent in this position. You take the horse to the water Melody, whether the horse drinks or not depends on well they learned their lessons. The tools I refer to are the MB principles. If you give them that gift then they will not need your advice to divorce. Further, if they have those principles at hand and utilize them then they will ALWAYS make the right decision. It is such a perfect package that it really defies all objection.

Did you think that I would answer your inquiry in any other way?



Is that what I said? Why do you feel you need to twist my argument into something that is indefensible? You know that I said NOTHING even close to that. You lead readers to think that that is my view when in fact it is not.

Mr. G

No, I said that to believer, not you.

Do I believe ALL marriages CAN be saved??? YES
Do I believe ALL marriages SHOULD be saved??? NO

I don't post to people in the second category generally.
I have advised some people to cut bait and run.

I have also respected the posters decision to try and save their marriage if that is what they want.

Giving them a sunshine enema doesn't help them. It may be what they want to hear but it doesn't help them.

I have also urged people in savable situations to get a grip and press on when they feel like giving up.

At the end of the day, every person seeking advice makes their own choice as to what advice to accept and what advice to reject. It is their life and their decision.

All this tip toeing around the answer.
Mr. G... I will tell you why I advise some people to leave a M when no kids are involved....because some WS are no good pos and they don't deserve the ability to take years away from their spouse. At times a BS is so wounded that they are not thinking clearly....at times they need someone to tell them that they should get away from a scum bag cad. No different that a woman that is being physically abused by a mate that she has an unhealthy relationship with...she may say she wants to save it...but I am not about to enable her staying in a horrible situation by telling her how.
You come across like some live and let live, learned..accept anyone type of person. Frankly, it comes across as anything but genuine. The purpose of this site is to save marriages...not to enable bad behavior. You have run your little agenda even at the expense of protecting children from abuse...after all, according to you...since a person initially came here to discuss marriage, child abuse should not be discussed even though the poster brought it into the discussion. It is not disrespectful...or a judgment to offer advice to someone here seeking it....it is incredibly disrespectful to give someone bad advice to help them remain in a bad situation.

I guess this is just me running my mouth again.

Somedays your mouth makes a lot of sense, friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Score: MEDC 1 MrG 0

Pass the popcorn Mel.

That is a very interesting way of putting it BigK and I don't mean that in a good way.

That seems to me to be what half these "discussion" posts end up being - a contest between certain people who always have to be "right". I really can't see how they help anyone build their marriage in any way, shape or form. In fact, if it's an example of how to communicate in a marriage it's not a very good example. Living with someone with a constant need to be the one who is always "right" must be exhausting, frustrating and demoralising.

Actually Jen, I thought MEDC had an excellent post.

You see, what I do is read everybody's opinion, take it on board and make my own decisions.

I don't feel the need to be RIGHT about what I think about any of it. I know I've formed an opinion and I'll probably state it but I don't need to force my opinion on someone else and tell them my opinion is the only correct one.

Is that right?

Generally speaking I guess that's right.

I don't talk in absolutes. I'm human, there's probably a post somewhere where I shoved my opinion down someone's throat - who knows? I wouldn't die of shock if someone found one that showed just that.

I don't think there's one thing on earth I'm sure enough about to tell everyone that my way of thinking is the only way. None of us has seen the big picture yet. "For now we see through a glass darkly."

Thanks for expressing your opinion Jen.

But...you're not really sure of that, are you? I will keep that in mind when reading your posts. Absolutely.