after 12 years of marriage my wife has decided to call it quits.this has all just recently come out in the past 3 months. she said that for the past 2 years she has struggled with it and that she has finally emotionaly divorced me. i knew nothing of it. she didn't say anything and i didn't see anything. i love her and our children more than anything.she's told me that she doesn't love me and has nothing to rebuild on. and seems to refuse to give me a chance to do what it would take to get her to fall in love with me again. how do i solve this conflict? it just seems the more i ask for another chance, the more she gets mad at me and says that it will never happen. she's is already filling out the divorce papers and says that it is the only way. how do i stop her? how do i get her to give me the chance to realy fix this? i'm no angel, i've had my moments and she's had hers too. why does she say that i'm not the one, that it could never be me. what can i do to resolve this conflict?

SNOOP!!!! Your wife is most likely having an affair. Suddenly one day telling you "I don't love and haven't loved you for two years, even though I was pretending everything was fine for that whole time" is the biggest red flag that she is seeing somebody.

She is rewriting history to make it seem okay for her to be dumping you and making it your fault.

So...without telling her anything or that you suspect anything...SNOOP! You need to get your hands on her cell phone bills, emails, etc. WITHOUT HER KNOWING. Don't mention that you even think she might be up to something or else she'll go underground and you'll never find anything.

IMO, women don't suddenly decide to end their marriage unless they are involved with somebody else. Especially if for all intents and purposes, everybody seemed happy up until now.

The only way to get your wife back is to find out everything you can about her secret life, expose it to everybody that can help you, and work the MB plans.

I'm with Cathy on this one. If she had been complaining for years, or dropping hints, or you two had been living separate lives, or you were abusive, then, I could see a sudden and imperative "I'm outa here."

Can you explain what your "moments" were? Were you LoveBusting big time?

looking back now i can see my moments that i had. i had the angry outbursts,sometimes the demands. but never did i stop giving her affection. she says that she just grew apart from me and that it happens all the time. and yes i did discover someone who she was seeing at work. she says that there relationship is just a friendship because he is also married and that she doesn't want to be known as a adultress or a homewrecker. she says he is just someone who she enjoys talking to and that she enjoys his company when and if they go to lunch together. but back to my moments, not to try and play the blame game but she had those moments also. and she doesn't want to see a counselor because she says that it's not what she wants to do right now and that she doesn't feel comfortable with it.

i love her dearly and don't want to divorce. how can i get her to compromise with me when she refuses to. it's divorce and divorce only to her no matter what.

also after reading dr. harley's books i can see things we BOTH didn't do. i've tried to read her these things and show her that we can make it work but she refuses to listen or try to work things out.

Obviously, if she’s determined to divorce, you can’t stop her. You can however give her a lot of reasons to stay. Just keep in mind that there is nothing “fair” about this process right now. There is nothing that looks like “compromise” when just one person is trying to stave off divorce.

First, you need to snoop some more. Your wife is in an emotional affair of some sort. It could be completely one sided right now, or it could be a very deep mutual relationship.

Read up on Plan A. In Plan A you avoid LBs, as in never again make one, and you meet whatever of her emotional needs she’ll let you. You ask for nothing in return. You may though repeatedly tell her you love her and are committed to creating a mutually enjoyable, happy marriage with her. Plan A isn’t about preventing divorce—The real goal is to restore romantic love to the marriage relationship so that divorce is inconceivable.

Plan A also sets the stage so that if/when she walks out the door, or you walk out the door for Plan B, your wife will view returning to you as a viable option. If you rage and storm at her or make disrespectful judgments, she’ll be less likely to return when the cold hard reality of divorce and an affair intrude.

Oh, your wife probably won’t fill in the ENQ or LBQ. So fill them in as if you were her. From those answers develop your plan of action.

Good luck.

thank you for your replys and your help. but i think i have tried everything to get her to stay. i think i ve given her every reason and made every promise i can think of. if there's anything else you could think of i would appreciate it. but like i said on the other hand thank you.

Mikey...

Welcome to MB. I see where you're reading Dr Harley's books...did you pick up Surviving An Affair yet?

You wrote: "and yes i did discover someone who she was seeing at work. she says that there relationship is just a friendship because he is also married and that she doesn't want to be known as a adultress or a homewrecker. she says he is just someone who she enjoys talking to and that she enjoys his company when and if they go to lunch together."

Please take Cathy and GG's advice to snoop...snoop hard. You aren't dealing with the truth...you're wrestling with her truth...which has a ton of resentment, hardened into entitlement and no respect.

Begin by dealing with the truth...check cell phone records, all emails, and ask the coworker's wife what she thinks...check out stories if she goes out with friends, works late, unexpected stuff...can be small amounts of time.

What you may be experiencing is a one-sided EA...Emotional Affair. Your wife may be dwelling in judgment land...comparing you (who goes through ups and downs, seeing you at your worst) to a fantasy man...may well be this coworker. Works even if it's a figment, made up...where she runs for diversion when she feels anger, pain and fear.

Coping skill gone awry by going to the extreme.

No real person lives up to a fantasy. We can't. We're real.

Please research the truth...and as for her truth...listen and repeat with pure focus.

"I hear you saying you struggle with your feelings for me these past two years and that you chose to emotionally divorce me, is that correct?"

No proving, refuting, discounting, counter-opinioning...this is HER truth right now...her thoughts, feelings, beliefs, perceptions and her own perspective. Get this solid right now...doesn't say a single thing about you, 'k? This is injecting respect by choosing to really "hear" her. Stay calm, non-reactive. You may be surprised when she says, "That wasn't what I meant" or "That's not what I said."

Listen and repeat is for clarification or confirmation. Not to win or lose or change anything. It's to know.

This choice really helps settle your pain, fear, anger and frustration. Takes a pure focus. No assumptions or mindreading. No going for The Truth...just to know hers. And after she shares with you, thank you. Appreciate her choice to share her truth with you...even if it turns your stomach on end...because that's what partners do.

Do not ask for another chance. Make O&H statements..."I do marriage. I don't do divorce." Which means, no quickie stuff because you mutually consent. You can choose to fight for your marriage...that's your goal, not based on her choice, which is to divorce.

Acknowledge her choices with each listen and repeat.

Do not fear her anger. It's hers. Her anger is in her, about her, coming from her beliefs. Not you. She may wish you acted differently. That's hers, too. You act to your own code and goals...you want to be a great partner. Be it.

Practice.

Do the EN questionnaire as if you were her. Meet those top ten ENs you suspect, in the way you believe she feels loved.

Which is doing Plan A as you snoop. Eliminate your LBs...identify them and take them out of your permissions to do. If your errors in the past have been AO's at times, remove yourself when you feel flooded with anger. State why you're removing yourself from her presence and when you'll be back...takes about 20 minutes for flooding chemicals to leave our bodies (unless we keep them going with our thoughts). Breathe. Return. Calm, respectful, clear. Focused on here and now.

Do the same if she AO's...state why you are removing yourself and when you'll return--others' AO's usually trigger flooding in our bodies, as well...from fear. Acknowledge this is your stuff...your reaction...not her making you.

Takes you being really aware of what's happening inside of YOU...not lost in being focused on her...what she may or may not be thinking, feeling, perceiving.

In this awareness, get really honest with yourself...find those O&H statements and make them into driveby's, not discussions. Here's an example..."I realized how much I love you allowing my affection over our 14 years together. I've loved touching you very much." Then take out the trash.

(I added two years for dating...you state it correctly, 'k?)

Simple, direct, short statements of what YOU may not have said.

She may not have shared a lot of stuff...make sure YOU'RE sharing. You cannot control what she shares, only your own.

Consider Alanon as an awesome resource...and consider calling the Harleys for counseling.

Do not assume you've tried everything to get her to stay. Search for all the ways you want to change to become an awesome partner right now...and put them into practice.

You're half the marriage...know and own that truth, 'k?

You matter. You're not alone. People here know where you've been...take them seriously. They care.

As for not being "the one"...know her opinion for her truth, not The Truth. You are The One. You are Her Husband. You are Real. You are her partner.

Do you guys have kids? Is this your first marriage for both of you? Some vitals would help...

Thank YOU, Mikey, for choosing to be here.

You're welcome to my help. You marriage deserves it.

LA

for now will let time take it's coarse and wait. she says that this other man would leave his wife for her. she says she's willing to wait for awhile. how long, i don't know. she says he is what makes her happy right now and that if he wasn't in the picture, her heart is just not in it for me and this marriage. this other man does exist. i have confronted him and talked to him. he lied to me at first but after hounding him he came clean. when i asked him what his wife would say he didn't answer. my wife told me that she has not totaly wrapped herself up in him and told him not to leave his wife because she told him that their marriage works. i told her it must not if he's willing to leave his wife for her. something's wrong or he's just flat out lying to her like i said he's been doing all along. just to put another notch in the belt, to tell all his friends "yeah boys i tagged that sweet thing". he's been married 3 times. and like what i told my wife nobody is that unlucky to find 3 women like that to treat him like dirt. he says that his wife now cheats on him and that all they do is argue. i told her it's a sap story to get you to feel sorry for him because she has opened up to him and shared with him her problems, and now he's praying on her weakness and her vulnerabilty.

as for the background info you asked for. we have been married for 12 years and have 3 beautiful daughters. 11,7,2. we were married at a young age, she was 19 and i was 18. but i find that that just because we were married so young doesn't mean anything. to some it might but to me it doesn't mean doodles. she says this whole thing is also about not living for or through anybody anymore. to find herself, to prove to herself that she can do things on her own and make decisions for herself. not let or ask other people for help. she has said that she has not and will not forget about her children and that they come first no matter what. and i do believe her when she says this because she is a very devoted mother. no offense to anyone, the best in the world to our children. she says that if she were to try and work this out i would be getting what i want and not her. and that her heart wouldn't be in it. please feel free to ask me any other questions so that i may provide some more info so i can get more advice and feedback from you all. thank you very very much.

Ok. You want to save your marriage? The things you MUST do to make that happen.

1. Snoop and gather whatever evidence you need to prove the existence of the affair.
2. Expose the affair to the OM wife. (I don't care if your WW tells you the OMW already knows, that's a load of crap and you can't believe it for a second. EXPOSE ANYWAY)
3. Expose The affair to her parents and friends that will be willing to help you bust up the affair.
4. Ignore the wayward babble...it's just that...babble.
5. DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE. when you expose you're wife is going to be extremely angry with you and will threaten you, etc. Do NOT move out of the house. Tell her she is more than welcome to leave but that you will not leave your home and your children because YOU haven't done anything wrong.

Honestly, I doubt you'll have to go much past #2 because exposing the affair to his wife will kill it for the OM. He'll dump your wife like a hot potato.

Again, do not believe for one second that the OMW already knows...that's something the waywards say to try to prevent exposure!!

my wife has not told me that the other man's wife knows. i threatened the other man about telling his wife. when i ask him about what would your wife say? what would your wife do? he didn't answer me. and my wife has told me that they would just deny it. plus, what if by telling the omw about the affair and she throws him out and that drives him into the arms of my wife? i have told her parents, i don't think they believe me. plus i have tried to call the other mans house and tell his wife but their number is out of service. i know where they live but it's a gated community, i can't get in and he's not going to let me in. how do i contact her and let her know?

Mikey,

If you want to live in truth, you gotta act from it. Why would you choose to believe your WW when she lied to you about the A? Please be reasonable. Inform OM's BW. That way, you know you acted from truth and didn't choose to believe your WW and then blame her for lying, later.

You don't control their choices...not if OM leaves his BW or not. Truth doesn't harm...people do. Act from truth and let go the outcome...it wasn't yours to control. No one can.

Send OMW's a registered letter to only her. State the facts and that you want to save your marriage. You are sharing the truth with her...not speculation. Not gossip. It's about her and her life...her choices.

You don't know if she knows or not. That's okay, not to know. Act, anyway.

LA

This is why you need to snoop and get proof. Heck, just record a conversation between you and your wife talking about the affair, that's all the proof you need.

Perfect. Then the OM would expect your wife to meet ALL of his needs (including the ones his wife has been meeting for him up until now)...takes all the "fun" out of the affair and can help bring the end of the affair sooner.

Then, again, bring proof.

You're right, it's probably better if you just sit on your duff and allow this man to walk off with your wife <sarcasm included for free>...keep making excuses and that's going to be the result. You can find a way to contact the wife. Sit outside the "gated community" until somebody else drives in (criminals do it all the time), or wait outside the gates for the OMW to come out.

If you keep making excuses and ignoring the advice you get here then your situation will not change....scratch that, it will change...when your wife leaves you to be with the OM.

Again, the most important thing I can tell you is DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE. If she insists on a separation then she should leave, you have done nothing wrong.

i'm not trying to make excuses. i'm looking for help and advice. the sarcasm is appreciated. i don't know what the om wife looks like or her name or what she drives. yes i would agree to sit outside the gate and wait for her or send a registered letter. but like what i said i don't know what she drives or her name or what she looks like. i also don't want to ask too many questions and look like i'm up to something. because if my wife were to suspect anything she would warn him. help please!

http://www.ocpafl.org/docs/record_search.html

Do a record search by his name and find out his exact address. Then follow somebody else into the gate and go to the house. Knock on the door and tell her your story.

Warning: She will not believe you without some evidence. Like I said, get a small tape recorder and tape a conversation between you and your wife about the affair (or the "friendship" as she puts it). Get copies of emails between them. Tell OMW that your wife is planning to divorce you for this "friendship" with her husband. If you can't get evidence, go tell her anyway. At least she will be informed that there is an inappropriate relationship and she'll be on guard also.

The OMW will tell her husband about the conversation with you (and the recording) and the OM will *most likely* end the "friendship" with your wife... Meanwhile, implement Plan A and work on making changes in yourself.

mike,

Have been where you are...and kinda still there to a degree, I acan tell you that you need not put all that energy into exposing. You must put your energy into
1)praying
2)continuing to be a husband and father. 3) finding ways to channel the multitude of emotions in a way that does not go towards her
4)staying emotionally strong

Her coming back to you needs to be based on her desire to do so based on what she see and realizes own her own (whic she's struggling with now), as opposed to being with you only because you've left her no choice. I heard the EXACT same words and such. There is another phaze that you are more likely to go through, but I'll explain that one later. Nevertheless, going through all of the exposure stuff is taking too much PRIORITY from the things that I listed.

This is not a nice time. It is emotionally draining and very confusing. Your emotions will roller coster and you'll go through a lot of different ones.

I have children....and because I do not KNOW the mental capacity and emotional state of the other guy and his wife, I can not RISKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK putting my CHILDREN in harms way by having him or his wife to come over her with guns blazing out of rage. It happened about a yr and a half ago here with an Asian family. The other man showed up and started blasting. personally, I dodn't want to take the risk with my children. It ain't worth it. I'd rather let them have each other than to EVER do something that may even remotely allow the kids to get caught in the emotional crossfire of people in love. I don't know that his wife won't pay someone to come over here and teach my wife a lesson.....do you.

Just do the things listed. Above all else, pray, take care of the kids and fix yourself up a bit. Be as loving to her as you can without being fake or smothering. Take care of the kids. take care of your home. Take care of her even.
Spend as much time as you can reading....but not just about relationship stuff. You MUST occupy your thoughts...otherwise, you'll obsess about her.
I am still on the outside of my marriage....with or without someone else in the picture. It's neither nice nor easy...and there's no clear cut way to deal with it, but I hope that you consider what I've said.

Here's your homework assignment.
**A) www.rejoiceministries.org
B) www.divorcebusting.com ... and by the book

extra credit work=
purchase book from barnes&noble called Light Her Fire. It's by the lady at this sight www.lightyourfire.com

www.marriedromance.com

Mike,I'm assuming you came to Marriage Builders because what you have read has told you that this method WORKS. I can tell you from experience (as the wayward wife, so I've been in your wife's shoes)...it really, really works.

suckr4luv, you've been on these forums for about a week and the advice you are giving is COMPLETELY against the Marriage Builders principles. Don't come here and tell people to do the exact opposite of the tried and true methods that are proven to work. You don't know what you're talking about.

Mike, if you choose to do nothing, then that's what you'll get in return. Trust me (and the many, many people here who have worked the MB system and have recovered previously "hopeless" marriages) when I say you need to read the books - go to the library, you don't even have to buy them! - work the plans (plan A and plan B if needed) and above all EXPOSE. This is the SINGLE most effective tool in your arsenal.

Read what suckr4luv says: Is that where you want to be...on the outside of your marriage? Follow his lead and that's where you'll end up.

Mikey007,

I did not come her to confuse you, so allow me to clarify and/or expound on my previous thread.

I never told you NOT [The caps are not to yell, but to emphasize terminology.] to expose. [For the record, I exposed to her mother.] I simply suggested not to put ALL OF your energy into that. Instead, I recommended some avenues that ample energy needs to go into.

1)I suggested that you pray. Not only is marriage God's creation but it is one of the greatest manifestations of love and the resemblance of committment (via covenant), and forgiveness. He was at the alter when the two of you joined. Therefore, I don't see how this would work AGAINST you marriage or the inner strength that you NEED to carry on in this tough time, but it's you call.

2) I suggested that you be the husband and father. Being the husband is what you desire to continue. Don't be ugly towards her nor be less of a man towards your wife. You still have household responsibilities and such. Bills still must be paid, things still need fixing, etc. Being a father nees NO explanation I'm sure. Dude, I am crazy about my children and relish the role and daily interaction that I have in their lives. I'm CERTAIN that you feel the same way. This is why I suggested you put energy into this as well. I'm not gonna say it's your call here. You gotta be daddy! :-)

3)I stated to put energy into channelling the multitude of emotions. We often experience hurt, agner, etc. Every professional piece that I've read tells those in our (you& I) position to do this very thing. In essence, I ask you to consider wherther or not you want to lean on her and sob your eyes out or get pissed and tell her off. Of course you can't...probably want to, but we can't. Therefore, channel some energy into ways to keep her from thinking she made the right choice in dumping you. Again, you make the call.

4) I asked you to remain emotionally strong. I am sure that you'll agree that this is not an easy time in our lives. I'll proceed to say that we have to put some energy into keping our spirits up, continuing to support the kids in whatever, maintaining job performance, and above all else, not allowing ourselves to fall victim to the subtle suggestions that Satan will throw our way that may cause unfortuitous outcomes. You don't have a choice when it comes to being emotionally strong.

In closing, I gave you about four websites that are PRO marriage. [Visit and judge for yourself.] I did that because I am for the ressurection of your marriage... and for betrayed spouses everywhere. If I wished you harm, I simply would not have posted at all. I wish you AND you wife (which she still IS) God's grace and mercy.

PS Purchasing the book or books is your call. For me, I found it helpful to be able to take it with me wherever I go and to be able to mark in it or go back and reread when I have a reflection. I don't know your financial situation, so again, it is your call, but there's a conveinience factor in having your own copy of whatever book(s) you choose. My marriage is worth the purchase. I know your marriage IS WORTH it too.

Last note...
As a father, I asked you to consider possible negative consequences of contacting the other spouse. Sometimes we should consider all possible outcomes before decisions are made. It does not mean that we should not or won't make them, just think it through. That's all.

Mike, I sincerely wish you the best.

Mikey
Certainly you need to be a good husband, father , etc. This is known as Plan A around here. Working on love busters and making yourself the husband anyone would want. This is working on you and not her.

But, right now she is "fogged" out. The best method to break up the A is to EXPOSE. You must expose to work, OMW, and family and friends whoc can make a difference. This may or may not break up the A, but it will remove the secrecy in which A thrive.

If you sit there and do essentially nothing like Sucker4Luv, you will end up in Plan D or Plan FU. Stand up and fight for your marriage...