I have a question regarding friends of the opposite sex.

What do you all think about a married person having a close friendship with the opposite sex?

I have my own opinion on this matter. My view is this, I do have friends that are males, but I do draw a line. I will never go to out with my male friends unless I have someone else there with us. We exchange email jokes and catch up on quick news, that's about it.

I have a SIL who dated and engaged to B; they broke up but remained friends. My brother comes into the picture and they all have become friends. My brother was in Iraq when SIL had my nephew; SIL had B come and stay with her for a week to help her with the new baby. My red flag was starting to creep up. Then over the past few years I noticed more and more. B was over at their house alot; he went on vacation with them. Recently my brother moved out of state and now B is moving to their location and will be living with them.

I expressed my concern to my brother and he took offense and told my SIL, now my SIL is furious with me. I'm just wondering if I'm just being old fashion.

I'd like to hear your comments or advice.

Thanks!

IMM, unfortunately, your brother likely won't wake up until he finds them in bed together. [if even then] There is nothing you can do until then.

Something smells rotten and they want to keep it in their family. You were kind enough to let them know the smell is now noticed by others and instead of thanking you, they go make more stink.

If your BIL wants to remain in denial, there isn't a lot you can do about it. Let him know he may be in denial but others are not. Then leave it be.

It will come out.... in time.

Btw, can someone get this B guy a GF? How will SIL react to that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That w/b a test to see if she is a WS or not.

Sorry,
L.

ML & Orchid,

Thank you for your replies.

My brother claims his marriage is strong and he doesn't see any problems with his wife having a male friend. He claims that he still has an ex GF that he still talks to. His ex GF lives far away, she is not hanging out with him . I wonder how my SIL would react if the shoe was on the other feet?

As far as I'm concern, I gave my brother advice and that's all I can do.

MOW and her XH were friends with my XWH and I. Then MOW started working at the same company with XWH and they started commuting together and she even stayed at my house for a few weeks before the rest of her family moved to our town. The A started about a month after she moved. It was a lesson I'll never forget.

I struggle with this issue as well.

I have a male friend whom I talk to on the telephone. He was actually a great supporter of mine during H's affair. But there was never anything between us, ever.

Now, FWH is not comfortable with me talking to him. I was floored by this at first, seeing that he was having an affair; I was just talking to someone on the phone.

Plank, BK, StandingTogether, and some others convinced me on a different thread that I needed to make concessions, since it was making husband uncomfortable. So ... I agreed not to talk to friend unless husband is present. And, he has access to all emails.

Since then, I have not spoken to friend on phone because husband is always at work (2 jobs). He (friend) is beginning to wonder why I never pick up the phone. I'm in a bit of quandary. I don't want to tell him of the agreement because I know he will think it is absurd. In a way, I think it's absurd too, but I made the agreement, so I'm sticking to it.

Im,

Regarding your brother and SIL, I think all of that is going a little too far. I think your brother needs to put some serious boundaries in place.

This subject has resurfaced again. Just to recap, in mid July my brother and SIL moved to HI, a few weeks after that I find out that SIL’s male friend lost his job and will be moving to HI too. He will be staying with them until he can get on his feet. I was upset but didn’t want to interfere with their marriage. Older sister and I talk about it, she commented how it really is upsetting me and that I should do something about it. Then she email our brother telling him how this whole situation has me upset and how I was worried about their marriage. I was not happy that my sister sent the email without talking to me first. Since the damage was done, I felt it was best to discuss this matter with my brother over the phone versus via email. I called my brother and I explained why I was having this conversation with him, and expressed my concern. I explained my own personal experience, XWH had affair with someone who was both our friend. My brother insisted he was fine with SIL’s relationship with this guy and how he was also my brother’s friend. I told him if he was OK with it, then so be it, I just wanted to voice my concern and the subject will be closed.

A few days after our conversation I received an email from my brother, stating how
there is nothing wrong with SIL’s relationship with her male friend. He stated that he has a strong marriage and he trusts SIL. He mentioned that he spoke to SIL about it and she was angry because I was attacking her character. He ended the email saying that my concern pretty much didn’t do anything but caused a friction between SIL and I.

I figured the subject was closed so I didn’t bother to reply back.
Yesterday I received an email from SIL. I printed the email out and it was 4 pages long! The email was very defensive, and to summarize it all, she was trying to justify her friendship with this man, whom she used to date. She went on to say how when my brother was out of the country, her friend was there to help her and how I never offer to help her, she literally listed all the things her friend did for my brother and his family. I felt like I was being attack. My other brother and myself have offered to help her many times. My sister, other brother and myself helped her after the birth of our niece, and we all live 3 hours from them. My sister and I have babysat our niece for her as well. She also accused me of being ignorant and judgmental.

I honestly want this subject to end but they both keep bringing it up. My SIL’s email outraged me and it made me angry, my first reaction was to blast her, but I know I have to calm down before I decide what to do.

On one hand I want to keep peace in the family and just politely email brother & SIL and stated that I’m sorry I interfere, but I was just concern and once my brother acknowledge that he was comfortable with SIL’s relationship with her friend, I accepted his decision and wanted to close the subject and move on, and that is still my plan, so please end this discussion and move on.

Another part of me wants to address how she attacked me in the email, and to remind her that our family was there to help her.

Any comments or advice would be great!

Make her feel like a real [censored] and reply with something real simple and sweet:

"So sorry for the offense. If you do need any help in the future, please know that I am always here for you. Thanks for your email, Sally! Love ya much, Immovinon"

I suspect she is working off the premise that the best defense is a good OFFENSE and see her attack for what it is. Don't give her the satisfaction of engaging in a fight with her which would escalate the fight.

They are a minefield. Maybe you could send them that list of steps that lead up to an affair.

Anyone here have a link to that list?

It is pretty obvious that the EA line has already been crossed. Your brother is going to feel like a real dumb a$$ when d-day occurs.

I was almost as dumb and unsuspecting as he is being while my FWH was carrying on first an EA and eventually a PA with a former college classmate who lived 3000 miles away.

When the lightbulb went on, I was devastated first by the A, and second, by now naive I was to not see the obvious.

Who

OK...not to be offensive or anything, but it sounds to me as though they've got a 'three way' thing going on here.

I knew a couple that played the same online game that my wife and I used to play. They met another man in that same game who lived in the same city that they did. They all met up, and became friends in 'real life'.

He ran into some kind of money trouble, and ended up moving in with them. They 'discussed it' and invited him into their bed with them. This became a standard practice among the three of them for several months. He never did get a job, but ended up staying at home all day with her and the kids while the husband was at work.

You guessed it, it turned from PA to an EA. She fell in love with OM. BH started to suspect when she would only have sex with the three of them, not just with him. Finally confronted and got the truth...and of course was totally devestated. He didn't see it coming (I know, we all figure how could he not...don't ask me.) He threatened to throw the guy out, she told BH that she'd leave with him if he did.

Ended up that BH moved out of the house "to hurt the kids as little as possible". The last I knew, they were all still friends...again, don't ask me how.

This all happened a few months into OUR recovery. We tried to help them with what we'd been through and learned (the WW had spent time in game with my wife, and had suspected that something was going on with her). But it didn't seem to help, and they were hurting our recovery more than we were helping them, so we ended our friendship.

The situation you described sounds like it could be very similar.

That was my impression about the SIL's response, too.

And I liked ML's short and sweet reply! There's absolutely no point in trying to debate nitty-gritty details with someone who is being so defensive.

IMO, you've done what you can do to shed light on a disturbing situation. When the chips fall, your brother will see that you were right to be concerned. Small consolation, that, but....

Lori

MelodyLane,

Quote:
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I suspect she is working off the premise that the best defense is a good OFFENSE and see her attack for what it is. Don't give her the satisfaction of engaging in a fight with her, which would escalate the fight.
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You are so right, I certainly don't want to fall into her trap and have it escalate into a huge fight that might even cost me my relationship with my brother and my niece. Your suggested reply is brilliant!



WhoMe,

I too wish I could give them a list of articles or books that emphasize the danger of friendships for married individuals with the opposite sex. I know their thinking is naive, and I do hope they prove me wrong, for my niece's sake.


Owl,

I know some people are into the "three way " thing, but I don't think this is the case here. It's sad when adults get involve in such activities and then the children are the ones who gets hurt in the end.


At peace,

I am upset with my brother for not able to think on his own. He's making the same mistake I did with my XWH. I put XWH first in my life, and I allow him to think for me and all I did was gave in to whatever he wanted, that was a huge mistake on my part. It was a painful lesson.

I certainly will be there for my brother when the chips fall.



Thank you for all your advice and comments, you have helped me more than you know.

IMO

A four-page denial from your SIL? And that man was a former fiance?

I may be wrong, but my bet is that the A is on already and your poor brother is being properly gaslighted by his WW. He's likely not going to believe that anything is going on until he sees physical proof, or she admits the A to him. I would even go as far as suggesting that a paternity test might be in order. Unless this is a three-way as Owl has suggested, it sounds like your brother is lost in some deep, deep BS-Fog.

If I was in your position, I'd probably hire a PI to obtain such evidence, then tell the SIL that you had evidence of her A, and she'd better end the A AND be honest with your brother about what she's done. And if she chooses not to do that within a reasonable time, you go to your brother with the evidence.

Maybe he's afraid to tell his wife that she has to end the 'friendship' with her former BF? Maybe he beleives that if she were told to choose between her husband or her 'friend' she would choose her 'friend'?

Maybe he figures it's like that keep your friends close and your enemies closer advice?

Maybe he's so incredibly naive and trusting that he doesn't suspect a thing even when his wife writes a 4-page-long letter defending her 'friendship' and blasting his family?!?!?!?

Oh and let me be the first to predict that when the adultery is confirmed she will spin it to pretend the 'accusation' against her somehow caused the adultery...
She'll claim it caused problems in their marriage and caused her husband to act jealous and controlling... which drove her into the OM's arms...

Meremotal,

"Maybe he's so incredibly naive and trusting that he doesn't suspect a thing even when his wife writes a 4-page-long letter defending her 'friendship' and blasting his family?!?!?!? "

Bingo!! You hit this one on the head!!! I did ask my brother how he can defend his wife by allowing her to attack me. "His answer was, you attacked her first with your view about her friendship with her friend."

Oh well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Immovingon,

Well you can't force him to see what he doesn't want to see. Don't be too surprised if when the affair, whether it be an EA or and EA/PA, does come out that you are one of the last ones to hear about it.

If you have hit any nerve with him at all, then he will probably watch things more closely. He may simply not want to admit to you that he shares your concerns.

In any case, it won't go away on its own. The more he ignores things, the bolder the infidels will get.

Who