I hope some people can provide some insight or guidance.

After intercepting a voice mail from OM to my WW, I basically threw in the towel. My WW went back to TX, claiming that she would not have any contact with OM. I basically said whatever. She changed all of her passwords, etc. immediately. I took some considerable time off from work. My WW paid most of the bills while I was off and we continued to talk on the phone. She continued to visit from time to time. Our interactions were cordial, but I've essentially stopped any R talk or trying to make any "deposits" to her LB.

She always says she doesn't know what she wants to do. Divorce or reconcile. She continues to insist I'd be better off without her. She also said she did not know if she could promise not to have another A.

We put the house up for sale and I moved out of my house to an apartment. She was more than willing to help get me set up and she is planning on setting up a place for herself in TX. She also says she has started IC, but will not share any off the details as to how its going.

Finally, about a month ago, I told her I was tired of doing the work of figuring out what needs to be done to put our M in some direction (either divorce or recovery). If she wants to divorce or reconcile, just let me know. She asked for six months while she decides. She also said she thinks I should start dating, but that she was not going to do that.

Okay, so I know from experience that this six months, is just going to keep re-upping. So its going to be up to me to act. I'd like to get some advice on what to do. I can get a D done in about six weeks. But what keeps holding back is this nagging feeling that things just don't add up. I just don't do well making decisions when I feel like I'm missing some information.

I'm not holding out for a miracle, but I just feel like there is something blocking my WW from leveling with me. Something she can't admit. Something she thinks I couldn't handle. I can't help feeling like if we could remove that, things would be so much easier.

I've just never seen someone so regretful about getting a divorce, yet so insistent on doing it.

Do I just give up on trying to find out what this is? Is there anything I could say or do?

Did you ever do a good Plan B?

Nope. Bunch of reasons why not. Notably was that SH was saying don't do it, unless you want a D. Since, I'm going to get a D anyway, I may consider it. I may come back to that with more questions.

But, it doesn't seem like I need to get my WW to want to come back to the M. Its more like I need her to not be afraid to do it.

Tell her that you're not willing to give her six months. Tell her she's had plenty of time to decide, and you're no longer willing to "wait and see" if she'll eventually choose you or not.

Tell her to make her choice...RIGHT NOW. And to start working that choice, whatever it is...RIGHT NOW.

If she wants to have you in her life, tell her that she needs to take positive action (you decide what that is)...this week. Marriage counseling, moving back to your location, whatever...it needs to start happening right now.


If she wants a life without you in it...tell her that she needs to file for divorce...this week. No more waffling, no more 'waiting' while she continues to hurt you with her actions...

Make a choice NOW and move.

Quit letting her stall and control YOUR life.

Make it crystal clear to her that if she chooses divorce, that means that you will NEVER be part of her life again. That you don't want to be her "friend"...that you're her husband, and you'll never see her in any other light than that. If she's ready for you to be gone from her life, then all she's got to do is start that divorce. If she isn't ready for that, then she needs to start fighting to KEEP you in it.

Put the work back on her to do. Don't let her avoid this any longer.

My opinion at least.

Ditto what Owl said.

She has 48 hours. Tick-tock. Time starts when you hang up the phone.

And tell her that you have the papers ready to go - and HAVE THEM READY TO GO.

Because you have a life to live, and there is no need to live it alone. Which is what you are doing, and she is pulling those strings, because she can. You are her fall-back position. To the right person (if she gets off the fence, it MIGHT be her), you would always be

NUMBER ONE.

Remember that.

My husband never would be waiting one second for me to "decide" if I wanted him.

There is no doubt.

He is the number one man on the list.

And there is NO ONE ELSE on the list. There never has been from the day we met.

You deserve no less. Demand it. 48 hours.

SB

I agree with owl...
time periods are just excuses to do what ever till the time draws to a close...

then extend...

time for YOU to decide what YOU want

and move in that direction

ARK

Owl, schoolbus, ark - thanks for the advice. I've considered this at great length.


And this is really where the problem is. What I want is to know the truth.

There are times when it is very clear to me that my sitch is exactly what others have assummed. My WW cheated on me, she fell "in love" with OM, she is stringing me a long to keep me as a backup, fence sitting, etc.

But then there are other times, when it seems like there is more to it. The statement about her not knowing if she could keep from having another A. That's very odd. Other things are odd.

I feel like if I just file for D, I'm not ever going to know the truth. I would just like to know what's been going on for the last 5 years or so. I don't think I'm ever going to be "right" if I don't know these things.

So, maybe I'm over complicating things, I don't know. Maybe it is just a plain vanilla A. Maybe I know all of it, but am in denial. I just feel like I'm being handled or managed. That there are things my WW does not want to tell me. Its as if she knows we can not have a good M if she doesn't tell me these things, but she is too afraid to do it.

Through all of this, I've done what I had to do, when I had to do it. I'm just trying to figure out if I have any other option other than just filing for D or going to plan B and just taking my chances on finding out the truth.

rpy...

I didn't get past that what you want is to know the truth...

what the He** kind of set up is that for you..

if you don't know the truth you will never be right...

bleeeecccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

you won't get the truth till she decides to value the marriage and put energy in to that ...

and there is NOTHING you can do to make that happen....

I think Plan B would be a superb idea for you ...

no control
no telling her what needs done
no telling her what to do

let her stew and stew and stew in her juices without her knowing A THING about you...
it will drive her mad..

talk about taking the focus off of her herself for a minute...
the fact that she is asking for six months..
the fact that she waffles and strings...
she has you

you can date dear ryp..but I wouldn't like it...she says...

oh phoooey...to that

she has you e x a c t l y where she wants you....

the statement...

I don't know if I can keep from having an affair...

is really saying... what?

I don't value your worth

ryp...
a short sweet plan B letter....

when and only when she again values truth and honesty will you have it...
period....
will that day ever come..
who knows but you dayum well better not just be waiting for that to have your own value and worth...

you value truth this day..this minute this second this moment...

that's all you need to do to be a honorable man...

ain't nothing more important than that..

she's sucking you in to her fog babble..
and it's making sense to you when you get to close...

very treacherous as you can see to your own self...

ARK

I'm not trying to over dramatize here. I did put the "right" in quotations.

I don't mean it from a life is terrible, boo hoo stand point.

I mean its going to nag at my mind for a long time.

Anyway, fair point you are making.

But it is hard to think of my WW in the terms that you are describing.

I agree that the reality is if she valued me,....

Anyway, I'm just trying to make decision.

The WW is coming to visit a for few days at the end of the week. Its taken a long time, but I've finally gotten everything un entangled.

Plan B seems like the logical choice.

So how to do that? A letter after she leaves. A talk while she is here? Does it matter that she knows my screenname on this forum and occassionally reads my posts. Does it matter that she has read SAA and will know what plan B is? Does it matter that I agreed to the six months?

ryp..
I know you are not dramatizing here...
but lets be honest the need for truth from someone is and...can be as illusive as that ugly little mantra between the OP and WS


the need for CLOSURE...

no such thing...

it is a never ending cat chasing tail scenario....

I am not being dramatic either...it just makes me sad to think that you hold on to believing that you can get that...

I too remain very hopeful that people who are so lost from the light and doing and being right can find their way back....

but you shouldn't hang your own emotions and feelings on that occurance....

you must detach yourself from that...

ryp
you have been at this a long time...
for you abnormal has become normal....

this past july was the two year mark....

my friend...life is fleeting....
and it's not that you have wasted time..
you have been true and strong....
steadfast in your pursuit...

you have counseled with the best who obviously know the scene better than us...
so if he says no to plan B then that's where it's at

BUT it all lays with in her...
in my opinion I can' imagine what more you can do...

why not cancel the trip and mail her the plan b letter...

why not let her come and hand her the plan B letter and have her turn around and leave...


my least favorite
a stellar plan A weekend...

then an hour before she is leaving...hand her the letter

you leave
and be dark...

but if I were you...
I'd cancel the visit...
and email the plan b letter.....with a hard copy in the mail

your gonna have to pick an intermediary..
ie lawyer..

change cells
change numbers etc...who cares what she knows and reads.. there's a big difference between that and her reality....

does it matter that YOU agreed to six months..
does it matter to her that she vowed to honor you..

apologize for changing your mind on the six months....
tell her you wish you could ...but you can't...

ARK

rprynne,

I understand your need to know "why". I'm a "why" person, too. If I can't figure something out, it nags at me.

If MT is keeping something from you, I think it's because she's still keeping her options open. And I think she'll continue to do that for as long as you allow her to.

So I wonder.. at this point... if maybe plan b is your best shot at getting the answers you want. It will either bring her back to you, at which point she will have to start being open and honest as a condition of coming back. Or it won't, at which point you will divorce. And if that happens, maybe at some point down the road, you can convince her that she has nothing else to lose and that she at least owes you the truth. Or maybe by then you won't care anymore.

I, for one, do think it matters that you agreed to give her 6 months. After all, it's your word and honor we're talking about here, not hers. Hers is already shot. Just because she has behaved deceitfully and dishonorably, does that make it okay for you to respond in kind? I don't think so.

HOWEVER...

Why can't you ride out the rest of the time in plan B? Or did you agree to spend the entire time on her terms only? In other words, "Dear, you can still have your six months. But for the remainder of that time, I want nothing at all to do with you."

--SC

rprynne, there is absolutely no reason to give this another 6 months. That is a promise based on a fantasy and only gives her a 6 month reprieve - piled upon 2 years of reprieves - to avoid the consequences. It gives you another 6 months of conflict avoidance. The only thing worse than making a bad promise is keeping a bad promise. There is no honor, only stupidity, in keeping a bad promise.

You know nothing will be different in 6 months. You just want to pretend for 6 months that there is hope and she wants another 6 months to play. Well, rprynne, hope is not a plan. You have done everything possible to save this marriage. You have no plan, she has no plan. Conflict avoidance is not a plan, it is a fool's mission.

Steve told you Plan B would be ridiculous and you know it would be a joke, given that your wife knows all about it. It would be worthless. What would be the point?

I see this "6 months" offer for what it is: a way for rprynne to avoid taking action for yet another 6 months. A way for MT to play for 6 more months, WITH YOUR PERMISSION, btw. More conflict avoidance. Lets be honest, rprynne.

If you took the inevitable action now, I assure you that you would be 6 months closer to RECOVERY and building a meaningful, fulfilling life that does not revolve around a false "hope" for a runaway wife. Move on, rprynne. Accept the truth and go forward in your life.

Face reality, my friend.

Owl has it exactly right, rprynne. RIGHT NOW. Conflict avoidance is not a plan.

Thanks for all the advice.


Intellectually, I know this, I just have a hard time accepting it.


Yep, and for way too long. I'm trying to get back to normal.


I'm debating all three options.


Perhaps, but I don't know.


It's possible, but I don't think its probable. If I had to predict, I'd say that it will lead to a D, then maybe some revelation from her many years done the road. But this is the most likely path, regardless of what I do.


I'll clarify this. It was in the context of me remarking to my WW, that while she claims to not know what she wants to do, all of her actions lead inevitably to a D. I told her that I would rather my M end as a choice rather than from apathy. I told her that I have been the one planning, suggesting, working, accommadating, problem solving to get us on a track towards resolution. (I used the word resolution, meaning either reconcile or D). I told her that I thought it was time for her to have a plan, because with every one I come up with she fails to honor her committments. She didn't really come up with a plan, so I told her, I won't file for a D for six months, and that I would only have contact with her to handle details, i.e. paying the bills, etc. That's how it went for a few days, but then the phone calls become more frequent, less about details, etc. Then its a visit to town. To be fair, this has not been one sided, she calls me more than I do, but I do seem to fall back into the old routine. As Ark said, and SH before that, I've gotten used to the abnormal relationship with my WW.


I really don't think its conflict avoidance. It's some type of avoidance, no doubt, but not conflict. Most likely something like failure avoidance. I've never really failed at anything. Never given up. Hard things for me to do. Additionally, I'm very methodical and have a high pain threshold. Bad combination for a failing M. But, you are right, I'm avoiding things. I plan to address that tommorrow. (I hope someone gets the irony of that last sentance.)


Always. Sometimes, it may appear that I am in denial, but usually not. There was a period of time when I was careful about what I posted here. My WW was using this site to see if I was on to her. She probably still checks it every now and then.

Anyway, keep the advice coming. I've got some IC today. I'll make a decision by tommorrow.

ML and Owl are 100% right.

Okay, then. All you have to do is go back to the original agreement and STICK TO IT, making sure you rarely if ever need to communicate about the nitty gritty. What other options do you have? Either file for D now... or go through 5 more months (or more) of the same fence-sitting, abnormal, false-hope-building, limbo crap. Yuck. You deserve sooooo much better.

--SC

I agree that it is avoidance, but it is not your failure, rprynne. A failure would be to continue to living your life in limbo based on unrealistic hopes, as you have been doing. You know that nothing will be different in 6 months. And so does Margie.

This is just avoidance of the inevitable, an emotional decision that ends up hurting you more, and putting you that much farther away from recovery. There is absolutely no reason to facilitate her wayward lifestyle for 6 more months and that is all you would be doing. There would no benefit, no purpose.

Sometimes the definition of success is divorce, my friend. And I believe that is the case here.