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OK friends - I've sat here and wrestled with the idea of even posting this - but I really and truly need some input/kick in the pants/advice from my friends that are not involved in any way/shape/form....

This is embarrassing for me even to type - so please don't blast me too badly - as I know this borders on High School drama - but it's eating me up and I NEED to get it out there.....

I have been divorced for almost 4 years, involved in relationship with BF for 2 - things going well - I'm absolutely amazed (with the exception of some learning pains here and there) at how much I've learned about myself and my co-dependency after my disasterous marriage, disastrous relationships prior to marriage. With the help of my Anon group, counselling, and reading a zillion self help books, church and really TRYING, I've been able to comfortably "let go" and just "be".

OK - now here's the drama part. I am very close with a group of my neighbors, all married, and I have been close with them for over 10 years. We all hang together, have done vacations together (while I was married, divorced and now dating BF) and all in all - we are one happy group.

One of the wives in this group - well let's just say she's making me upset. You see, she's been married for 16 years to her "one and only" - and in the last two years, has lost a lot of weight, and has started to look good. Well, with this weight loss, she's discovered her self esteem (which is a GOOD thing). Here's where it gets stupid. With this new self esteem, she's also discovered her "skanky" side. She constantly flirts with men (she's really bold) and has on occasion crossed over the line. She blatantly sticks her "goods" in the men's faces, doesn't hold her tongue and talks dirty with the men in the group - and pretty much with her body language says "F**k me - I'm ready for some new stuff". Well, you guessed it - she's been behaving this way with my BF.......

Without getting into the gory details (there have been several occurances over the last year), let's just say that last weekend, she crossed the line (in my book). Now, I sit here allowing HER behavior to make ME feel badly about myself - my insecurities are rearing their ugly head, and I'm fighting the urge to call her and just chew her up and spit her out.....but I can't - if I did, it would ruin long term relationships - and uncomfortable living conditions (they live right across the street from me).

So I'm handling it this way so far - I'm going out of my way to avoid her, and am purposely avoiding social occasions that would potentially put her and me and BF in that type of situation again.....which won't last forever either.

OK - I could go on and on forever....What I'm looking for is advice on how to handle this with her - what do I say (if anything) - or do I leave it alone? All I know is this - it's getting to the point where it's affecting me in a bad way - I'm angry - and I hate carrying this around....

What would YOU do???

Laura


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sounds like my ww - the weight loss and flirty side (to be polite) - what does your BF think of her behavior?

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sounds like my ww - the weight loss and flirty side (to be polite) - what does your BF think of her behavior?

You are too polite - I'm calling it "skanky" side.....I've mentioned it just once to my BF, after a disasterous evening on vacation in Mexico (she pretty much did a lap dance in his face while we were all a little tipsy) - and he genuinely (or maybe not so? - I dunno) didn't see anything wrong with the "playfulness" of the evening. And, to be perfectly honest, I haven't mentioned it to him again since - because I don't want to come across as some possessive, controlling, desperate divorcee - as by nature I'm a laid-back, independent "I am woman, hear me roar" lady - and this jealousy and anger I'm feeling is making ME uncomfortable....


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Laura --
It doesn't sound like your feelings are inappropriate.
I don't think you are overreacting.
I think you have come to recognize the warning signs.
And I think you are wise to avoid the situations that are making you uncomfortable.

Does your boyfriend understand your triggers from your background? I think its fair to expect him to behave respectfully towards you and your relationship, and that includes not accepting lap dances from married women.
It doesn't sound like YOUR boundries are wrong, but maybe his are.

Maybe approach the conversation with your BF regarding the SMW (skanky married woman) from the perspective that you recognize this behavior. He may think its playful -- but what if he put himself in SMWH (skanky married woman's husband's) shoes?

How would BF feel about the behaviour if it were HIS wife doing it -- or you for that matter?
If he agrees its not right, then you can ask him to remove himself from those situations -- as respect for you.

If she continues -- I would call her on it. As in "Hey why don't you go dance for your OWN man..."

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Laura --
It doesn't sound like your feelings are inappropriate.
I don't think you are overreacting.
I think you have come to recognize the warning signs.
And I think you are wise to avoid the situations that are making you uncomfortable.

Thanks Lexxy - I appreciate it - because I gotta tell you, I felt like such a foolish, childish <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> jerk even feeling like this, a - I mean, I'm 45 years old for goodness sake - no need or desire for this type of drama in my life......but I guess life is full of this type of stuff, huh?

As for discussing this with BF - to be honest, I only mentioned it once - and that was back in February.....I guess it's time to have a discussion with him about it, huh? Ugghhhhh - I hate those discussions!

Anyway, as for the skanky wife, I gotta tell you, it's really hard for me to hold my tongue - cause I really wanna punch her in the face! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Thank goodness, calmer heads have prevailed thus far... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


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I mean, I'm 45 years old for goodness sake


Well, I'm 52 and this so called "friend" is waaaayyyy out of line! Her behavior has nothing to do with "your" insecurities, it is called a BIG RED FLAG!

Don't sweep this under the rug with your BF either. You needed to have "the talk" with him yesterday to find out the reason he doesn't think her behavior is inappropriate!

There is NO WAY I'd continue a friendship (no matter how long) with someone who behaves the way she does around other peoples husbands and SO's. Neighbor or no neighbor.

Have you talked with the other wives? You might be surprised that you aren't the only one that has a problem with her.

Let her know where you stand! Look for a new circle of friends if the ones you have are afraid to stand up to this behavior too, it's very telling!

I don't share well with others! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey
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Have you talked with the other wives? You might be surprised that you aren't the only one that has a problem with her.

As a matter of fact, I have....and yes, I was surprised to know that I am NOT the only one that has experienced this behavior from her. One of the other ladies noticed the nonsense going on during the Mexico vacation - and came to talk to me. I was not aware of this - but over two years ago when we all went to Vegas together (I was newly divorced, so I went with a girlfriend) - this SMW (to borrow Lexy's term <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) disappeared with her husband for 4 hours! We all were leaving a casino (and in Vegas, it's easy to get separated). They showed back up at dinner - and she said that they got "lost" because she dropped her bracelet somewhere in the casino and my girlfriend's husband helped her look for it! I didn't pay any attention to it at the time - but my girlfriend (the man's wife) was FURIOUS! This episode led to my girlfriend and her husband having a major fight and another ruined vacation!

Yes, you are right - I need to speak up and tell my BF how this type of "flirting" makes me uncomfortable and let's see how he reacts - and as for her, well, I should let the anger cool for a while before I have the discussion with her. But as each instance happens, I find myself more and more willing to slap her face, and with each instance, I keep my mouth shut and become more and more angry! Time for me to be a big girl and deal with it!

Thanks for the help.....


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I agree with the previous posters. You're not overreacting and I think it's important your boyfriend understands why this woman's behaviour is inappropriate.

If you're not able to avoid social situations where she's acing this way, I think it's important too that your boyfriend be able to enforce boundaries too - that may deflect any "suggestion" that you're overly "jealous." Best case scenario would be that EVERYONE in your circle enforce those boundaries, but on the other hand, the males in the group may choose not to see the behaviour as inappropriate if they are flattered by the attention.

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, but on the other hand, the males in the group may choose not to see the behaviour as inappropriate if they are flattered by the attention.

Exactly!!! I was throwing this around with another dear friend of mine (not in this particular social circle) and I explained that my BF didn't see the incidents as inappropriate - just "playfulness". She said this - "well of COURSE the man doesn't get it - he's a man, and thinks that this is all harmless"......

So, it's up to me to tell him that it bothers me - and let him take that for what it's worth. As for her, well, I STILL might punch her in the face! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


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I don't know that I would qualify this as jealousy. Recognizing a red flag and a trigger is how I see this.

If this woman is a permanent fixture of this group and you don't feel you can comfortably stick around where's the harm is speaking to her? Though it will be hard to not punch her in the face as you do this ask her if she remembers the incident you talked about. If she does ask her if she feels she stepped over a line. No matter what her response, embarrassment, irritation, shock, tell her how it made you feel and that you don't want to feel that way again. Maybe even tell her other wives in the group feel the same.

If she backed off completely and understood she was behaving in a "skanky" way do you think you'd still want to hang around with this group?

As for your BF you only need to explain how the incident made you feel. He doesn't have to feel the same, but he should empathize with your discomfort and be supportive of you not wanting to be in that situation again.


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She said this - "well of COURSE the man doesn't get it - he's a man, and thinks that this is all harmless

Nah, it's not a male/female issue. My ex was a looker, and men always flirted with her, and she usually saw nothing wrong with it. I didn't like it, but was called "controlling". Naturally, she ended up sleeping with one such guy (although for all I know, there were others).

In all my subsequent relationships, I have made it clear where my boundary is - I do not share. If I see this kind of behavior, I know that I should not be dating this person. It is not "harmless fun" for a drunk slutty woman to be sticking her goodies into a guy's face, or whatever the male equivalent of that is <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />. It would probably be a dealbreaker for me if my partner considered such behavior to be fun - we all know where such "fun" usually leads. I don't like playing with fire, or to date someone who does.

AGG


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I'll take a slightly different tack here. I do feel you should avoid the skank and any activities she's involved with. Involve yourself in some other activities that don't involve the skank. Don't say anything to your boyfriend as he will interpret you as being insecure and needy (that's not very sexy, is it?). If anyone asks why you're not hanging with the skank crowd, do not admit your attempt to avoid the skank but instead have another valid reason, i.e. "I've just decided to try some other things.", etc.

A mature adult does not have to deliver a message to a skank, to sink to the skank's level. By omitting the skank from your life, a message will be sent on its own. More than likely the social group that the skank belongs to will get tired of her antics.

A mature adult does not have to deliver a message to her boyfriend about his interactions with the skank. If the boyfriend is more interested in the skank than in you, then he's not your boyfriend, so fire him.

A mature adult does not give their personal power away to a perceived threat. A mature adult is superior to the drunken antics of a skank. A mature adult does not travel in the inevitable paths of destruction caused by a skank, who is herself insecure.


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Lived Together: 7 Married: 18 Total: 25 years
W announced divorce 11-3-2006, I moved out 11-7-2006, served papers 11-8-2006. Divorce final 12-19-2006. Life gets better every day.
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Good morning!!!

Booka - You're right. I have pretty much recited the same to myself over and over again since this all began.

Circumstances are no excuse here - however, this social network of neighbors has been around since I moved here (13 years ago) and this group has embraced me while married, during my divorce, and has embraced my new relationship - and it's a little difficult just to drop out, well to be honest, I don't want to drop out - I love this crowd and the others in it.....just makes this whole thing a little icky. And, I would be p*ssed off if the unchecked actions of this skank (who has just been a skank in the last 3 years) forces me to give up dear friendships with the others in the group. (I wonder if skank's husband is noticing this considerable change in his wife's behavior and how HE's feeling about it). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

My logical mind says over and over to myself that yes, a mature adult does not have to discuss this with BF, that a mature adult does not have to discuss this with the skank - and a mature adult would not allow the actions of a skank to dictate my feelings of self worth, etc......and the same mature adult (me) is secure enough in her relationship not to let this crap affect me.

However, my emotional mind is telling me a whole different story. It's nice to know that I still have emotions (considering divorce, etc.) but this emotional mind is making me very uncomfortable - and the emotional mind is telling me to punch her in the face - read her the riot act, and kick her to the curb. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> And, I absolutely HATE feeling this way - I truly do not enjoy drama. The classic angel/devil on the shoulder scenario. I'm not sure who's gonna win - the angel or the devil.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


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I don't like playing with fire, or to date someone who does.

AGG

AGG - I don't like it either....I really do trust my BF - he's a good, moral, churchgoing guy. However, with my history, and just understanding the nature of the human being, it makes me uncomfortable - no one is above sin...I liken it to something like this for me - I know I shouldn't eat an entire bag of Oreo cookies for dinner, for a number of reasons, my jeans will no longer fit, I'll give myself a stomach ache, I'll be miserable and feel guilty afterwards, etc. But if the bag of Oreo cookies is waved in my face over and over again, I know that I'm gonna grab at it sooner or later.......I'm not perfect....

I just have to limit the amount of time and any situations that will allow the skank to wave HER bag of Oreos in his face....... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


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i'd keep that bag of oreos as farrrrrr away from your bf as you can.

mlhb


God first, family second, and all else will fall into place.

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i'd keep that bag of oreos as farrrrrr away from your bf as you can.

mlhb

That's the plan....thanks mlhb - good to have you back. I admire your strength and determination! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for your input....


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If she backed off completely and understood she was behaving in a "skanky" way do you think you'd still want to hang around with this group?

If she backed off completely, it sure would make neighborhood life much, much easier. To be perfectly honest, she and I have never been the best of buddies, I actually enjoy her husband more than her. But she and her husband are in the friend circle, so it would make me much more comfortable if she would recognize her skankiness, as she and I will cross paths again and again. And yes, I would still like to be a part of this group - as I have a wonderful friendship with everyone ELSE in this group - and I really would have a hard time losing those relationships just because of her!

(I still want to punch her in the face!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


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Truly, I don't think you have to lose the friendships--just change how you enjoy them. Have small dinner parties with only one or two other couples. Skip the group vacation. I bet many people in your set will realize you don't like this woman's behavior, and they won't invite you both to intimate parties. Hey, the women may be looking for an excuse to cut her.

As for the BF, I'd have a general discussion about boundaries and expectations. And if this woman ever makes a move on him again, call her on it publicly. That's not being needy, clingy, or possessive. It's a boundary -- "I don't share. Back off." It isn't important if SMW gets your message, it's important that your BF does. If he puts up a fuss or calls you possessive, jealous, rude or nuts, you know he'd rather enjoy the attention than have you happy.


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Skip the group vacation.

GG - Thanks - you're right.....I've already announced that I will not be joining the gang for another Vegas jaunt in November.

I remember sitting on the plane after the Mexico vacation fiasco saying to myself "I will NEVER do this again".....


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