I have been happily married for almost 20 years. We have had minor ups and downs, but for the most part, an affectionate, loving and often passionate relationship. She would agree that we have had a very good marriage. She would also agree that even back in May we had a solid marriage.

Recently my wife secretly contacted and then met with an old flame, a person she considers her first love. She told me about the emails and meeting after it happened. She has had email contact with him since May, a few cell phone conversations and met him face to face once in July. This has rekindled many old feelings of love and attraction for her towards this person. She met him again this week and has left for the weekend and will likely see him then too.

This morning she told me:
- she has always loved him,
- the pull towards him is very strong,
- she wants to be with him more than she wants to be with me,
- she is not sure that she wants to save our marriage

This afternoon she told me:
- we are done
- she wants a divorce
- she wants to move on

This has all happened so fast. As I understand things, these old flame relationships have some differences but many similarities to standard emotional affairs. Will somebody with some experience with these old flame things give me some hope?

I love this woman and want to fight for our marriage. I am numb, in pain and going nuts all at the same time.

so sorry to hear about you going thru this.

same thing happened to me about a year ago. but it was my husband that had the affair. it start similar to that of your wifes. it was my husband 1st girlfriend. he was 15 and she was 13. then 20 years later this affair takes place. the same words you wife said:

he never stopped loving her
he wants to be with her
that he wants out of our marriage.

and like you and your wife we had our ups and downs but we rarely argued and fight. but i guess i was missing one of his emotional needs. right now you cant talk and say nothing bad about the other person that will make them defend them more. i know it is hard and confusing you have all this emotion and rage and hurt going thru your body. how could someone say that they loved you go and do the most hurtful things like that?
first you need to find out all that you can about this person. expose expose expose what is going on to their friends and family. you see part of the fun of the affair is the secret of it.

my husband had problems with self esteem and i think that was alot of his problems and his family they went crazy the past couple of years. his parents divorced after 35 years, his sister divorced after 13 years all because of affairs. now he is following the same road. we have been separted for a year. it is hard because he says he loves me and her. he refuses to talk about a divorce. and the OW is married. she left her husband of 15 years. but since they have lived together the past 8 months they have fought, she has moved out 7 times, money issues, she is afraid of him cheating on her with me, ( yeah the witch called me and said that to me)


past couple of weeks we really did some talking. he said he hated me working nights and he felt like that i did that because i didnt want to be with him. or that their was someone at work that i wanted to be with. he has seen that since this whole mess started that i still cared for him. now take it we have fought more this past year then the whole entire 9 years of marriage. i am hoping that things are changing.
please listen to all advice that you get from all of the mb here. you have a long emotional road ahead of you.
remember there is always hope.
bsj220

Orchid: So my question to a WS w/b: If this is sooo true, why did WS and OM break up? Can she separate fantasy from reality? Don't teach her, just ask.


Orchid: If life was that bad, how come she didn't tell you or D before?

Again, don't teach, just ask. Expect her to babble and/or get mad.

L.

My WW did the same thing for the last 14 months up until 2 1/2 months ago. It is terrible and I am sorry. It was her "first-love". We had been married a little over 6 years when it started and we have now been married a little over 7. I exposed to everyone that I knew. EXPOSURE WORKS...Use it. The OM was an alcoholic ex-con who she was bring around my children and when I would go home for R&R's, they would call me by his name. About 2 1/2 months ago, we had our D-Day and since then it has completely turned in my favor. I had to let go of what I wanted and did an awesome Plan A. My pastor and her best friend at church called her, and still do, every day for accountability. I am still overseas for another week and a half, but she has totally recommitted herself to our marriage and to God. I hope this gives you a little hope, but PLEASE take the pros advice and EXPOSE and PLAN A. Come back on here often and post. It really helped me with my anger and stuff. I will be praying for you and your family.

One more thing, my WW and I are going to start hard-core MC when I get home...it can turn around, just follow the "program" on this site....Left that out accidentally...

Thanks for the replys so far.

At this time, the reason they broke up long ago is that the OM was immature and couldn't handle the commitment she wanted. Now, of course, he says he is mature, sorry for hurting her and all is forgiven. She evens blaims herself for pressuring him into an exclusive relationship when he still wanted to date other people. Whatever positives he deposited with her are still there, along with new positive deposits and all withdrawls have been forgiven.

Also, she admits that we have had a good marriage and were solid even in May when she first emailed him. She did tell me about this old boyfriend and he has occasionally come up in our marriage. She has never been honest with me about the depth of her obsession with him, probably because she didn't want to let go of him and because she didn't want to alarm or hurt me and our marriage. When they broke up it ended badly with no closure and she has always wondered why. Neither one of them expected this and thought that their contact was innocent but it was like throwing a match on spilled gas.

My wife may also have self-esteem issues and has probably really enjoyed the attentions of both the old boyfriend and her husband right up to the past week.

She is convinced that if they get together they will stay together, get married and stay married. She is so addicted to him that she is willing to destroy our family, our very good life together, inflict severe pain on me and our 3 boys and risk being crucified and alienated from both her and his extended families.

Again, any advise, especially from people with experience in this situation, is so appreciated.

He is still immature because no real man does what he did.

Her prior issues and his new found status in life are not the reasons for her A. Instead IMHO, she has allowed a selfish bug to grow in her and now she is obsessed with him.

Notice how out of control she is with her emotions. Not a sign of being with a mature person eh? If this is what he does to her, imagine what else could happen? Is she willing to risk losing all for someone who makes her act immature? Hm.....

She is babbling. Learn about WS babble and how to protect you and your family.

What is his current status as far as work and $$? Is he financially set or is he eyeing your bank book?

Secure your finances and expose. Include notifying your children and her family. Along with exposing to his relatives and family.

Do it with a plan, so go do your reading homework then call Jennifer C @ MB for direction on how to put the best strategy together.


L.

Is OM married??? Does OM have kids???

Same thing happened to us. Old high school/college boyfriend...a couple of innocent emails...and they were off.

My MIL and I pressured OM to break it off with my wife and he did over two years ago.

Exposure along with Plan A is Step One.

Welcome to MB. Sorry we had to meet like this. You will make it.

Mr. Wondering

Ok, I am going to get medical. What happened to your wife is simply brain chemicals reactivated; one of the key reasons why Harley says no contact with old lovers for life.

The actual name is polyethylamine and the effects are insanity of the first order, those afflicted are literally out of their minds. One characteristic is that one day out of the blue, the chemicals simply stop working. In other words, those afflicted wake up and wonder how they got where they are; it is a full cycle from total bonkers to "Oh my Gawd, I feel nothing."

PEA is the infatuation chemical. From what I try to understand, PEA can be reactivated in full force when the original state was cut short of the full cycle, hence old school flames are to be avoided at all cost. Also as I understand it, the recurring round is shorter.

The OM is acting without honor. There is no male more protective of a woman's virtue than one in love. So it is all about him, just like when they first went together and then split. Given that her bonkers will expire at some point in time and that he is a selfish lout, the prognosis is not good for them at all.

Which doesn't help you a bit except for comfort food. Where you go and what you do I will leave for others to suggest, I just wanted to help you understand what is going on and what the future holds for the so-called "Love of my Life" garbage she is likely spewing out of her addled brain.

Larry

tlcinmn,

We need some details about this. How old are your children? Have you read the articles here on Plan A? If not do so...NOW. Have you exposed this affair to her family, your family, friends that could help? His W and family if they exist.

If you are going to fight for this marriage the affair must end, and the surest way to do this is exposure. She will be mad, she will rant and rave and say things such as "I was going to end it, but now..." "I'll just get a divorce" "YOU have ruined my life..."

Just let it roll off. It is normal, you have ruined their cute little fairy tail. Exposure is about seeking help from others to work with you to end this affair. IT IS NOT about revenge. It is shining light into the dark corner where affair thrive and you NEED to do it now.

You also do it all at once. YOu don't warn her, you don't threaten her, you simply contact people and seek their help in ending her affair.

Then you plan A your fanny off and read about plan B, because often A does not end the affair, but it does plant seeds that are very important as you move through this.

Please understand this is a process and it does NOT happen overnight. If you decide you want to fight for this marriage it will be the hardest thing you have ever done AND you will question yourself relentlessly. Come here, talk, read, ask questions. Educate yourself but refrain from trying to educate your W.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

My three sons are 14, 16, and 18. This will absolutely kill them. The OM has also been happily married until this happened and has two younger children.

I have told my wife's closest, most trusted sister about this. She has been through some very painful life events herself. She has a lot of life experience, is a very wise person regarding personal and life issues and always gives good advise. She has a lot of knowledge about this sort of thing from counsellors, books, people she knows, etc. She is a friend of our marriage.

I know that OM's wife needs to know about all of this, even if the two WS stop contact. Their marriage and family deserves the chance to survive too.

I have not told anyone else about this other than private, confidential conversations with a priest and a doctor. She is away, trying to think, hopefully considering who she really is and what her values really are. But I also know that she will meet with OM this weekend. That is so painful. I have been advised by a counsellor and her sister that in the short term (these first few days) the fewer people who know the better. I will leave it at that until she returns and I know more.

My strongest hope today is that she still loves me (she has told me so), she has a deep faith in Jesus Christ and that she recognize her strong love and compassion for our children and our life together. She has always valued faith, commitment, family and fidelity. She has shown an intense hatred of any wiff of infidelity on my part in our past. There has been none of that. I have always been true to her.

I have been reading this site and bought the SAA book as soon as I realized how serious this is - even before I started coming to this web site.

LARRY - Thinking back to high school and early college, I can relate to those infatuation feelings and how they fade and stop. I can even recall having dreams of some person, non-existent except for in the dream, where mild feelings of infatuation continue after waking up. They would be gone by the time the morning was over.

The PEA chemical effect makes so much sense. My wife has truely not been herself. She has really acted like a different person and her sister has said "this is not <wife's name>, she is not talking like herself" She is normally not a secretive or dishonest person. Her behavior when it comes to this OM is totally outside her character. She is typically open and honest, except where her behavior is related to OM.

I have been told that there is something that has hooked her with this OM that, psychologically is very unhealthy and spiritually is very evil. This makes sense to me but so does the effect of brain chemistry.

Is there any way to hasten the course of the chemicals that fuel the infatuation? I already know that repeated contact will prolong the chemical effects.

I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage and hold our family together.

Again, thanks for all of the feedback, input and advise. It is very much appreciated.

skip the chemical stuff....it is no different than eating copious amounts of chocolate....read up on it. Your wife is making a CHOICE to harm you and your family in order to be with her "true love." Just like she made a choice to contact him in the first place...and the chemicals played WHAT part in that??? Zip.

Let her know that if in fact she does decide to leave, that she leaves with nothing....not the kids...not any marital assets. Start taking some of the shine off of her romance....gag....start making home the obvious choice and the affair something that is VERY uncomfortable. Also, consider confronting the OM. And IMMEDIATELY tell his wife. NOW!!!!!!

If you live in a place that will allow you to file an alienation of affection suit against the OM, do so.
Expose this affair to any and everyone...INCLUDING YOUR CHILDREN...they are old enough to know the truth and to confront their mother. Tell them today and have them sit down and talk to her.....they need the truth and the only place for that is from you.

Yesterday your wife told you she is done, there is nothing left between you and she wants a divorce.

Hello??

You have been told what you need to do--expose to all who are friends to your marriage, expose to OM's wife and family, consider contacting OM to get the affair ended. Expect a storm of anger from your WW. Start your plan A, assuming you have read everything on this site.

But you come back with reasons why you can't do most of what you were advised to do.

Sorry for the 2 x 4, but I think you need to take some serious action. You can't refuse to apply the most basic principals on this site and then come back and ask, 'what else can you suggest?'

She told you she wants a D. She is with OM this weekend. You need to get together an exposure plan....I'd spend the next hour doing that.

tlc, this is very bad advice that may very well cost you your marriage. You are essentially ENABLING the affair, at the expense of your marriage and your childrens family.

Please take the tried and true advice of one of the top experts in marital infidelity, Dr. Willard Harley. He is a psychologist who specializes in infidelity, unlike your counselor or your SIL.

Exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure is ruinous to them. We have had affairs end here on the very day they were exposed. So helping her keep it a secret is to ENABLE the affair.

The foundation of an affair is based on a FANTASY. The affairees believe their affair is lovely and beautiful. This warped view is very dependent on secrecy, because the light of reality will expose it as ugly and putrid.

As you have noted, your wife is severely addicted. Exposing her would be like turning on the lights in a crack house and bringing in an audience. No one wants to smoke crack in front of an audience. It takes all the fun out of it to have a crowd of sober people grossing out at your sleazy behavior.

Exposure should be done in a strategic manner. Targets should be carefully selected based on their role in the affairees lives. Good targets would be, in this order of priority:

1. spouses
2. parents of affairees
3. employers if a workplace affair
4. close siblings and friends

However, since your wife is with her husband NOW, I would strongly suggest calling the OMW TODAY and informing her about the affair. She knows something is wrong and it would be the kind thing to do.

Targets should be asked for their help in saving your marriage. They should be given the basic outline, along with names, of the affair. They should NEVER BE ASKED to keep the affair a secret, that defeats the purpose.

It is best to do this all on the same day, IMO, in order to achieve the MAXIMUM effect. You want to treat them to a TSUNAMI.

Children should always be told. Children can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies. They need moral guidance, and they need protection from the inevitable lies that the WW will tell them.

tlc, your best bet is to follow Marriage Builders principles if you want the best chance at saving this. I would go right to Plan A. Dont' rely on the advice on NOVICES, but rely instead on a program that understands infidelity and has a program that is most likely to benefit you. There are no guarantees, but MB will give you the best chance at turning this around if it can be turned around.

Translation: she left to spend the weekend with the OM.

I am sorry to be so harsh, but you need to stop being so gullible if you are going to make it. It is just silly to tell us this nonsense, tlc.

It is silly to think that she is off "thinking about her values" while she is meeting with her affair partner. What "value" would that be? How best to trick your H so you can go off with your lover for the weekend and get laid?

Secondly, one can "think" anywhere. They don't need to leave the house to do it. What she needed to leave the house to do was meet her affair partner.

Dr Harley video on infidelity: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

What is Plan A and Plan B: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Okay, I made the point of WHY she is addled; operative word is addled, out of her mind, crazy, nuts, addicted, stupid, insane, etc. Then I said see what others say about how to deal with it. Given my sense that you are the logical type, I explained the process so you could understand. In the simplist possible description, she is not the woman you married at this time, she is an addicted adulterer.

My wife was the same way. I dealt with it using MB principles to an extent and my own hard [censored] methods since we have three kids who were at the point of destruction. I didn't have the time to wait full cycle and in my opinion, neither do you.

The OM is a jerk and so is your wife. Please understand that. Making excuses for either will NOT restore your relationship or more exact, build a new one on the ashes of the old one she is busy burning to the ground.

Neither her sister or your counselor are experts in the process of destroying an affair and the rebuilding process. Willard Harley IS an expert and the advice you are getting from those who have posted is as good as it gets short of calling the Harley's counseling service, which is always a good idea if you can afford it.

Expose, expose, expose. Do it exactly like Mel has said. Do it now and do it completely. Don't listen to her rants or raves. Learn to reverse babble, because babble is all you are going to hear until she starts to grow out of the addiction. Love who she WAS, not who she is NOW.

You have one shot at restoration. It is a narrow path and deviations simply do NOT work. If you want your woman back, you gotta do what you gotta do, not matter how counter intuitive it is. She is out screwing her old flame and the flame is burning down your marriage. It doesn't matter that she will eventually wake up, simply because that may be AFTER the divorce.

Fight.

Larry

I am going to steal a post. I hope she doesn't mind. This post could have been written to YOU but was to someone else in the exact same position you are in.

MrsKahuna said the following. I am a big fan of both MrsK and MrK and their wisdom They have a recovered marriage. Here is what SHE had to say and please note that SHE is a FORMER WW who knows about which she speaks.

_______________

JD..MAN UP!!!!

Tell your sons what is going on....they know anyway...They will want to SEE dad fighting for them and their family by some ACTION from YOU...Show them what dads are meant to do for their family, lead by example...So start DOING something..

Move home and WW moves out if she wants to continure affair...anything less than this is enabling beahviour by YOU....you want to stop this, right??

Go see OM and tell him, calmly as possible, that he is a home wrecker/family wrecker.

WW needs to see the FULL consequences of her actions on you,her, children etc....only them may she start to come out of the fog...

too bad if you upset her....what does she think her behaviour is doing to you & kids....oh ,thats right, she CAN'T think logically at the moment.

We're here to help you in your sitch, but you have to do your job too

--------------------
Me FWW 45
H BS 46
Married 24 yrs
3 sons 13,15,17
EA/PA
D-Day Aug 2005
RECOVERED.....YAY!!!
-------------------

Larry

And

When your wife questions you for exposing her affair to everyone be proud of yourself.

Say

"Yes..I did it and I can only hope you'd do the same for me if the situations were reversed"

YOU took a vow to love, honor and PROTECT.

Your wife NEEDS your protection right now as she is making the biggest mistake of her life RIGHT NOW.

I know it's scary. As husbands, we've been trained not to anger our wive's and to trust our wives....HOWEVER, your wife's anger will subside. Your marriage CAN survive anger...a never ending affair it can not.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Yes, nuclear exposure is what the doctor ordered for your situation. Exposure will kill her little fantasy that everything will just be hunky dory with OM. She needs to feel PRESSURE. Expose this to everyone, your children, her parents, her friends, her church, OM's W and family, etc. Leave no one out. This will piss her off, but it won't end your marriage. OM and your WW's affair is what will end your marriage.