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Mr. Goodstuff kindly posted these questions for doingfine on the recovery forum (50 Something + or - Friends Shootin' the Breeze Thread).

It's not viewed very often so I am moving his questions as well as her responses to the GQII board so she can get additional help.

Not sure myself how to help you, DF, but I can encourage you and try to get more input for you here.

Ace

*****

From Mr. Goodstuff:

Hi Doingfine,


You are separated and I was wondering what you might be thinking regarding your marriage and future.



not sure, I am working on it and always thinking about it. Its a tough one thats for sure, he has done alot. there are some things I just feel like I can't get past.

Do you need something special to happen?
What conditions would you impose on your husband before you return home?


no, nothing special, but he needs to stop beating around the bush with answers to my questions that he dosen't want to answer, if its something he dosen't want to answer right away he has this dance he does, then it almost turns into a lie, then when I call him out he admits it and admits its a lie and then takes it all back, he still does this


What kind of man do you think your husband has become? Is he seeing other women?

not any other women that I know of, I can not find anything that points to that at all. Its hard for me to answer the what kind of man question, I will have to ponder on that,


When should he give up?

he can whenever he wants. there has been a couple of times that I thought he was giving up, I was somewhat ok with that, I figured that if I wasn't worth the work for him then he doesn't deserve me anyway.


When will you give up?

I sort of given up, I go to counseling for myself, I don't really work on the marriage all that much. I do what I can but am still leary, I am waiting for another bomb, I think there is more, not sure if I will ever feel there is not any bombs. When I first left I told him to leave me alone, he did sort of, still called once in awhile and then alot. I scheduled dates with him, he has sort of made me "like" him again because he is working so hard. In answer to your question, I have not given up necessarily, but I have not gone full tilt into working on the marriage either. I have gone on with my life in a certain respect, go to parties or dinner with friends live like I am seperated.


He has certainly provided you enough reason to end the marriage but that does not mean that is the best option. I wonder why he keeps trying to save the marriage when it appears that you are on the edge of moving on. Mr. G

not sure, I am a good catch (LOL) I personally think its a form of anxious attachment, I am not a phychologist but have had many classes and dabbled in it and I feel like since he has been with me since we were 15 he is very attached and does not know what to do without me, I am not convinced that the next women who offers he is going to turn them down, he says he has not turned anyone down that he knows, and that no one has asked him in 17 years but he swears that he won't cheat on me again. not convinced

doingfine
--------------------
BS-me-46
WH-maybe F-46
A#1 1987- when I was pregnant with 2nd child
A#2 1989-FO 3mos ago
2 ONS 1985,1987
1 EA 1989
just found out about most
Status-Seperated in March 07
M-25 yrs
not sure if I can forgive, its alot

******

Edited to change title to reflect DF's new sig line.

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Mr. G,

Are you around? doingfine and I patiently await your response?

I would respond but I don't know what to tell her.

Does anyone else have a suggestion or two?

Thanks,

Ace


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Doingfine,

The biggest question of all is, “Do you want to save your marriage?” Your post seems to indicate that you are not up to the task. There is no shame in that. God knows, that your husband treated you in the worst possible way and you are more than justified to move on. But let me discuss some of my thoughts with you.

Yours is a difficult situation because you have a husband who claims to be repentant, is showing marked improvements in his behaviors but whose track record shows multiple failures having again and again engaged in affairs.

Has he learned his lesson? Can he become the husband you have always hoped for?

You are right in moving with great caution. Perhaps he is only giving you the “same old song and dance but to a different tune.” As you have noted, it is hard to tell. Still, he does not answer your questions nor address your concerns in a fashion that is comforting to you. I get the feeling from your responses that you are NOT buying into his claims of being a new man.

The time will come for you to either give him another chance or “pull the trigger” and move on. It is a decision that you must make. I would caution you to not allow anyone here to make it for you. Make the decision yourself. Part of the reason I asked you the series of questions was to see if you have arrived at a point where you and he have tried enough remedies to make a decision to recover or not.

Right now it seems that you are living in a sort of “quasi marriage” where you are husband and wife in name only. Your love connection to your husband is weak at best. Your only motivation to continue seems to come from the fact that he is making an effort to show that he is reformed. Unfortunately, his efforts have come too late as you have indicated that you are essentially moving on with your life.

I might suggest that because your husband is attached to you and does not know what to do without you are NOT reason enough to stay in this marriage. This is the time to make choices based on what is in YOUR best interest. The fact that you have essentially fallen out of love with him makes it much easier to focus on what is best for you. Perhaps such decisions will turn your husband into a former husband. Take time to absorb the full impact of what that will mean and if it is right for you then “embrace it” and cut him loose.

Recovery is a choice that is made jointly. If you or him are “OUT” then the marriage cannot survive and perhaps should not survive. Recovery takes great effort from both side and absence of a solid commitment from both of you; it is just not worth it. It is clear that you are NOT committed to recover. I am not sure I would be either if I were in your shoes.

If you decide that you want to pursue recovery then it will become necessary for you to do whatever you can to succeed. Of course, there is a lot of help here for you. For good advice to come your way you must ask the right questions.

Mr. G


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Thank you so much for your response,
your observations seem to be fairly accurate.
there are several things that bother me about working on the marriage of course, but now there is a new thing, I went to visit some friends this weekend that are about 7 hours away, on the way home the H called me, interrogated me and accused me of withholding info, mainly he distrusted me this weekend, believed I was up to something all because I didn't call him when he thought I should of, which I did try( problem with the phone service,I had issues calling anyone, 1 out of 6 calls went through) that frosted me, how dare him. How can I work on this if he dosen't trust me? why would he want me back with no trust?
He puts me in many situations that I can not fix but feel like I have to defend myself over, except there is really no way for me to win in the first place.
This is his stuff now, nothing I can really do about it.
I do believe that if I want to work on the marriage I must move home and put all past offenses behind me, make it a NC from my end as well as his end, and work on it with 100% honesty,intimacy, romance and commitment, there is no other way to do it, and your right, am I up for it? I don't know


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Hi doingfine, I thought of this article about the subject of forgiveness when I read through your posts. BTW, I do agree with your approach very much. You are not obliged to go back and I think you are doing the right thing taking your time to determine if you can. Welcome to Marriage Builders.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Hey doingfine,

Are you there?

Great article Mel linked for you yesterday. What do you think?

Ace

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Just checkin' up on you doingfine.

Are you still DOING FINE?

Ace

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Time for an update, doingfine,

How's it going?

Ace

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Hey Ace, Sorry, I couldn't find this thread, but got it now

Well, I moved back home, not sure if it's the right thing in a way.

I do feel like I am betraying myself, does that make sense?

I didn't want to live in my friends basement anymore

I know that sounds like I came home for my home and I think a huge part of me did

although, my H has been doing everything possible to "fix" things, he has gone to or continued to go to the counselor every week even after I moved out, read every book she has suggested and then some,

If it wasen't for the past and what h has done it would be perfect, I just have to get over it if I can.

Can I? I don't know, I need to try if I can. I need to work on myself, either way, no matter what I have to get over it, just for my own sanity.


Me-49 and staying there, course AARP sent me my card ugh
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Hi Doingfine,

So glad to see you posting again. Glad you found this thread.

It's good that you moved home and that you want to work on yourself. After all, it's the only thing over which you have control. And you're right, you will become a better person regardless what your H chooses.

If he is following through, give him a chance to begin to meet your ENs and start refilling your love bank. That's how my H and I began to rebuild our trust and eventually our love for each other.

He still slips but he is remorseful and apologizes immediately. I still slip, too and try to apologize as soon as I realize it.

If you decide you want to rebuild your marriage, you have to be living under the same roof. You've already invested 25 years. You can regain the love you two had if you choose to. That's what's so different about the Love Bank, love buster and emotional needs concepts of MB. This is the best place to seek solutions to help you grow.

If you think you want to change the thread name to reflect any topic change, just say so. I have to change it since I made it for you.

I will not be offended, however, if you decide you want to post a new threead with a whole new title. Just let me know.

Ace


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Quote:

Hi Doingfine,

So glad to see you posting again. Glad you found this thread.

yeah, I am too

It's good that you moved home and that you want to work on yourself. After all, it's the only thing over which you have control. And you're right, you will become a better person regardless what your H chooses.

my plan is to be better no matter what, lift the dark cloud


If he is following through, give him a chance to begin to meet your ENs and start refilling your love bank. That's how my H and I began to rebuild our trust and eventually our love for each other.


he for sure is trying for me to trust him again, he is working hard there is no doubt


He still slips but he is remorseful and apologizes immediately. I still slip, too and try to apologize as soon as I realize it.

I try to be big enough to admit when I am wrong, that can be tough for me

If you decide you want to rebuild your marriage, you have to be living under the same roof. You've already invested 25 years. You can regain the love you two had if you choose to. That's what's so different about the Love Bank, love buster and emotional needs concepts of MB. This is the best place to seek solutions to help you grow.

counting on it

If you think you want to change the thread name to reflect any topic change, just say so. I have to change it since I made it for you.


I will not be offended, however, if you decide you want to post a new threead with a whole new title. Just let me know.

I don't think you offend easily
I am ok with this thread and the title, its all good.
Thank you

Ace




Me-49 and staying there, course AARP sent me my card ugh
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geesh, sorry, I tried to do the quote thing again, thought I put my answers in blue, so I thought. I will have to work on this.


Me-49 and staying there, course AARP sent me my card ugh
H-49
DD and SIL
GS the light of my life! 1 and a half, full of you know what
DS med school
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Quote:

Hi Doingfine,

So glad to see you posting again. Glad you found this thread.

yeah, I am too

It's good that you moved home and that you want to work on yourself. After all, it's the only thing over which you have control. And you're right, you will become a better person regardless what your H chooses.

my plan is to be better no matter what, lift the dark cloud


If he is following through, give him a chance to begin to meet your ENs and start refilling your love bank. That's how my H and I began to rebuild our trust and eventually our love for each other.


he for sure is trying for me to trust him again, he is working hard there is no doubt


He still slips but he is remorseful and apologizes immediately. I still slip, too and try to apologize as soon as I realize it.

I try to be big enough to admit when I am wrong, that can be tough for me

If you decide you want to rebuild your marriage, you have to be living under the same roof. You've already invested 25 years. You can regain the love you two had if you choose to. That's what's so different about the Love Bank, love buster and emotional needs concepts of MB. This is the best place to seek solutions to help you grow.

counting on it

If you think you want to change the thread name to reflect any topic change, just say so. I have to change it since I made it for you.


I will not be offended, however, if you decide you want to post a new threead with a whole new title. Just let me know.

I don't think you offend easily
I am ok with this thread and the title, its all good.


Thank you

Ace





Hi Doingfine,

It's OK, we can read it.....sorta!!LOL (I decided to move it to this post and add blue to your remarks.) When I cut/paste the entire post, I just put the quote marks around each individual statement. Then type your response and click the quote button again for the next thing you want highlighted....and then reply.

I'm sure others have easier ways to do it so we'll both learn together.

At any rate, keep posting and asking any question(s) you may have. Answers are just a post away.

Glad you're here, DF...but check in on the 50 Something thread, too.

Ace

Edited to add blue to DF's responses to my last post and to change title.

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Quote:

M-25 yrs
working hard to save M

A successful M means falling in love many times over with the same person
(I am trying)




Hi Doingfine,

I see you've made a decision to try to save your M and added this to your sig line. How's it going so far?

If you were to nail it down, what would be the top reason for your reluctance to believe he is sincere this time?

Ace


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I moved back home, we were seperated about 6 months. When I moved out I had every reason to believe that we would divorce.

H worked hard on the marriage, counseling, books, articles, this board.

H has bent over backwards, sideways and every way imaginable to meet my needs. H is actually the S that anyone would want right now.

Me, I live each day grateful no matter what. I am happy to be in my home again, its a nice house. H knows that I am leary and very guarded, I will not lie or pretend.

I don't know if I love him like a W should, he knows that I feel this way. Not sure if maybe I don't want to admitt it outloud or to myself, that would leave me wide open for any pain. It will take time and energy. I am not mean or cruel. I am normally a nice person anyway, I treat H like I would anyone else at this moment.

All I can do is let it gradually work.


Me-49 and staying there, course AARP sent me my card ugh
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Quote:

H worked hard on the marriage, counseling, books, articles, this board.




Does he (or did he) actively post on these forums?

Quote:

All I can do is let it gradually work.




Actually, I am discovering there is more I can do to speed up our trust building process. I'll try to come up with concrete thoughts and post them later.

Keep up the good work, DF.

Ace


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I think H posted one time on here, can't remember where now, I know I read it.

H is afraid to read what I have written or to post here. H has read all articles and lurks around the discussion forum.

that would be wonderful if you can find something to speed things up, the slow speed is from me, right now that is the speed I am in, even when I eat I am the last one done.


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Doingfine,

I thought of something to get this started when I was posting to Chrysalis (formerly In Limbo Land). She said:

Quote:

OK, so I'm in recovery. I *think* my H is headed the right way, finally, but even if he blows it again, I have to claim my personal recovery.




Then I said:

Quote:

Chrys, I think this focus will help us both recover ourselves AND our M's. In fact, I'm aiming for a brand new M, way above the previous one. But I am also concentrating on recovering MYSELF, whether FWH wants to continue or not.

Hey.....that's one of the things I can share with Doingfine. I told her I'd help her speed up our trust-rebuilding process, but at the time I had no idea what to say. That is one 'change in thought process' that is helping us.




To expand a bit.....I am speeding up our trust-rebuilding process by changing my focus from what he is or is not doing wrong or right, to what I can do to improve myself to accomplish MY goals for my recovery.

This might not change the actual time line.....but it makes it SEEM like things are progressing faster.

Two scriptures come to mind: "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he" Prov. 23:7....or is it 27:3?

"Abraham....who calls things which be not as though they were" Rom. 4:17


1. Get a vision of how you want your marriage.

2. Begin dwelling, thinking, meditating, visualizing and acting like you have that marriage in your own mind.

3. Without sacrificing your guard (we BS's will NEVER be able to totally let our guard down), begin to treat your husband AS IF he is the husband of your dreams when his behavior lines up with your vision for your future M.

For instance, my FWH calls me every 3-4 hours a day and leaves a message, even if I can't/don't answer. But then I call him back immediately and tell him how much I love his calls, b/c I do. I've made it safe for him to confide in me, even his worst thoughts and actions, knowing I will listen and repeat without criticizing and judging. We now talk on the phone for hours, which we never did before his A. But he claims he is now addicted to me, my energy, my care for him and my desire to give him the chance to succeed at proving that he has changed.

Every day that goes by, it gets easier and easier....and SEEMS faster, but really isn't.

That's one thought.....will share more when I figure out what they are. (I'm 'calling things which be not as though they were'!)

Ace


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Mr. Goodstuff (or others),

DoingFine has been struggling this past year and just posted on the Recovery forum, seeking input.

You posted to her last year on the Vacation Thread and I moved it here last summer.

If you have a moment, could you (or anyone else) please check out her situation again.

Here's a link to her new thread:

DoingFine's thread

Thank you,
Ace


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Hello Doingfine,

It sounds to me as if you are not “doing fine”.

Let’s examine your most recent post to see if there might be something to latch onto.

 Quote:
I have been home about a year; it’s not been an easy year.

The MC tells me I have to say nice things now and then.


I think that perhaps your marriage counselor is alluding to the emotional needs that we all have. Living in an environment where those needs are ignored, even if inadvertently, can become overwhelming. I suspect that neither of you are addressing each other’s emotional needs nor at least not addressing them in a productive fashion.

In such an instance it becomes understandable that over time you and he will begin to lose the love that you may have once had for each other. Coupled with your husband’s past infidelity, meaningful communication becomes guarded and all actions are suspect. This is perhaps an issue that better speaks to the depleted love bank, yours and his. This is too bad really, because you have a husband that is currently attending counseling sessions. What purpose could he have for doing that if not to fix something that is broken in your marriage?

 Quote:
H has to work supper hard at thinking of me first; it seems to not come natural for him.


You should ask him where you are on his list of most important things instead of making this classic disrespectful judgment. It may seem to you to be the case and indeed there could be much truth in your assessment but the reality is much more likely that you are misinterpreting his motives in some way, which means that your conclusions will be flawed. Discuss this assumption in your next marriage counseling session. Let him know that you feel left out of his life. Think about the concrete things that he can do to make you feel more important to him. Try to take care to best insure that your list of things does not require him to sacrifice what is important to him. It is important that one spouse’s emotional needs are not satisfied at the expense of the other’s emotional needs. That is how we balance the “giver” and “taker”. Try to find the path where by satisfying your partner’s emotional needs you in fact help address some of your own, i.e. it makes you happy to do things that make your spouse happy and vice versa.

It appears that you have built up an inventory of bad habits as has he. Can you think of the items that act as an impediment towards rebuilding love?

 Quote:
Me-"hi honey, it sure is nice seeing your truck in the drive when I come home"

H-"hi, thanks honey"

Me-"do you like seeing my truck when you pull up?"

H-"well, somewhat, it’s nice to come home and be alone sometimes"

Me-(teeth clenched)"I gave you 6 months of being alone"

H then continued to babble to explain what he meant.


What an idiotic response on the part of your husband. You gave him a pop quiz and he failed with his answer. So how did he explain himself for this obvious shortsighted reply? Men can say and do some fairly goofy things sometimes. One time my wife noted that I never buy her flowers, which was a fairly accurate assessment. So one day I arrive at the front door and in my hands is… “A potted plant”. Well folks, you cannot imagine the look abhorrence in her eyes with me standing there proudly smiling. I had no idea that a potted plant and roses were two different entities. In the end she gave me a big hug and kiss and calmly explained to me the difference. My point is that what sometime matters most is the intention of our actions more so that the result. To know his intention you might consider just asking him.

 Quote:
I feel like I am regressing, I am having so many triggers, I feel like I just can't let it go.


This statement smacks of built up resentment. I can’t help but see that you are angry and hurt over your husband’s dark history, certainly you are justified, but you have made a decision to stay. Now, you carry that hurt with you and it is suffocating you. Regardless if you stay or go, you will need to find a way to let go the resentment within. While there is a great deal that he can do to help temper your bitterness, it will be you who finely conquers it. The first step is to realize that it is there and to make a promise yourself to find a way to release it, for your benefit. Of course, he will benefit too.

The triggers that you experience might be part and parcel of the resentment that you hold.

In many of your posts you describe your husband as a man who has returned to the marriage. You once said of him,

 Quote:
“My husband has worked hard on the marriage, counseling, books, articles, this board. He has bent over backwards, sideways and every way imaginable to meet my needs. He is actually the spouse that anyone would want right now.”


Think about this and try to consider what your life would be like if you were to just consider the possibility that your husband deserves and has earned a second chance from you. Note that I have NOT asked you to actually forgive him but only to consider opening yourself up to the possibility. Consider what such an action might mean to your respective love banks.

Mr. G


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows," Bob Dylan

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Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
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