I started this on the Emotional Needs board, but it was suggested I should move it over here....

I've posted a few times, and have had some good replies, but my threads don't seem to have any staying power. I need help though....

My wife moved out in July. She had been involved in an emotional affair with another married man. This, she assures me is over, he has completely gone back to his wife. I've tried to find any evidence to challenge this, but so far nothing. The main problem she says she has, is a lack of attraction for me.. Sexually, she says she has no connexion with me, and this has been the case for years, if not all the time we have been together.

In her view, she has to be 'whole', and sex is a big part of that. Apparently, I am a great guy, she loves me as a friend, and if it weren't for that lack of attraction, she could live with me forever......except it would be a lie (her words). We are getting along very amicably, affectionate even.

I am having a really hard time accepting this, I love her, and the thought of her being out of my life kills me. Because I don't hate her, I'm left only with an emptiness that wont' go away. It's bad enough that I keep toying with doing myself in....more of a wild thought going through my head, but it's there. For certain, there is no joy or happiness in my life right now.

I'm not ready to give up on my marriage, and my wife says she hasn't closed the door, but she doesn't believe that she can develop any attraction for me.

Ny question is, how can I become attractive to her? I'm doing all the plan A things I can think of, but is there anything else?

I'll call this my last kick at the can. I hope someone help.

Where is she living now?

Her attitude is pretty typical for a WW who has only just (maybe) broken off the affair.

Is she in NC with the scumbag?

If you don't want your threads to die - YOU must keep posting to them and acknowledge the people who take the time to post to you.

She's living in an apartment in the same (small)town. One bedroom, that sort of thing. Unfortunately, there is still contact, about once a week face to face, and who knows how much more on the phone. I would have called up his wife and kids ages ago, but I am not 100% sure that this is the guy.....

Basically, I don't have the proof to satisfy my morals......Does it ever suck to be honourable!

As she is out of the house, my question is, is it possible to save my marriage, is it possible to re-kindle her attraction for me, has it ever worked for anyone here?

That's three questions, I know...

Thanks,
ron

Notify the other man's wife, that there was AT LEAST an emotional affair, and it may still be going on. I suspect it is.

Put a GPS on her car, check her cell phone records, hire a PI if you feel like you need more proof. There is nothing honorable in letting your wife cheat on you while you believe her lies that the married man went back to his wife.

Ron - Proof is overated IMO. Notify the OM'sW of what you suspect. Have you done ANY exposure?

Contact BTW means the affair is ongoing and given the motive and opportunity, I bet they are screwing each other.

It is impossible to save your marriage while there is contact. NC is an absolute first pass requirement for recovery.

When the affair is over and she has withdrawn from OM, I would be trying to get her to move back home.

Hi Ron,

I'm sorry you are here. I'm posting to you because I am in the same boat. My WH tells me he doesn't feel any "passion" for me, and not sure he can ever feel that way towards me again. What do you do w/that? I can't compete w/his illusion. I told him that he can have sex with anyone, but you can't make love with just anyone. YOU have to be strong, show her someone she doesn't know. Not like scary, but if you are normally a shy quiet guy and bow down to her every need, then don't always be available to her. Let her think you have moved on also. You still care, love her but she's the one missing out and do it. Focus on yourself and your needs. It will be part of your recovery, either with her or without her.

Unlike you though, I do know who the OW is and exposure has taken place, actually it was OW H who found out and force the issue. If he hadn't then the A would have continued for who knows how long.

I am only about 6 weeks from DD. These has been the longest days of my entire life. I don't have a lot of answers for you, because I don't know you or your W. But I will tell you what I do know.

First you have to tell her to tell you everything, who, where, when..all the details. BUT don't ask for specifics like how they did it, or if it was better then you. Once you have heard those answers it makes it very hard to get it out of your mind.

Second be confident....even if you don't really feel it. I started this whole thing being somewhat submissive, which is not my norm. But somewhere along the way I got pissed off, I didn't bring this on, I didn't have the A. I was home waiting for him while he was banging the OW. Once I started standing on my own feet, his attitude towards me changed a little.

Third push for NC, it will be hard cause she's already moved out. My H is still home, but I don't know for how long. The OW was to have moved out. The WS will want what they can get from their spouse and from the OP all at the same time. Cake eating. My H was blown away when I told him if he leaves then I will not have any contact w/him again. We have been married almost 20 years. He thought he could leave me and the kids go to OW and come home to be "buddies" w/me when he wanted.

This time really is the worst time, your feelings will go up and down. One min. WS will say or do something to make you feel like you have hope, then the next min. they say things like....I love you, but I don't think I can get over the OP. Then you are totally destroy. I understand the empty feeling you have, I feel that also and my H is home.I think for me I grieve for the ideal of what I thought I had.

We all have moments of just finding a way out, but you have to find the strength to continue on with or without her. I tell myself, that I have alot to offer, somewhere out there is a person who will see all that. To be honest, I don't quite see myself there yet, but I also don't see myself alone forever either.

Just know Ron, you are not alone, keep posting, there are a lot of people on MB who can guide and support you through. Read, post, read, post.....you have to be able to vent and ask for help. I'm only this lucid because of the help I have received.

Take care, don't do anything stupid!!
Tami

Hi Ron

Sorry to hear about your situation. You are lucky to be getting some great advice from the longer term members. Heed it.

WWs including mine frequently say they are not sure their feelings for the BS will ever return.

In her head your WW has split her life into two parallel tracks. The OM is fulfilling all of her intimacy needs and you aren't. That's why she can't contemplate a sexual relationship with you. On the other hand, you must have fulfilled some of her ENs.

As others have said, until you establish NC, you haven't got a chance. The only tool you have in your arsenal to get this is exposure. Do it but read up on how to do it properly and be prepared for the backlash.

Tough though it is, just let her know that you are ready to reconcile, get on with your own life and let her come to you. Fill your time and just wait to see if she wants to come back so you can Plan A properly. Exercise, eat properly, work hard and spend time with lots of other people. This will help you down the road no matter what the outcome with your marriage. Buy the books if you haven't already and study them (emphasis on the word study).

Prepare for Plan A and Plan B.

Good luck!

Ron, of course it's the same guy. Even if the "affair" has ended, which I doubt, she is fooling herself into thinking that they can "just be friends."

Another thought, if it WAS just an Emotional Affair, it could also be "one sided" and all in HER mind. The OM may not realize that he is HER OM.

Either way, you need to talk to his wife about your wife's perception of her relationship with her husband. This affair must be destablized and exposed to "those who have a need to know."

(Word of Foreknowledge - When you DO expose this to the OM's wife, etc., EXPECT a nasty response from your wife when she finds out that you have exposed the affair. You will likely hear all sorts of name calling and threats and even statements like "now there is no hope for our marriage! Listen to her without reacting and CONTINUE with Plan A efforts. This response on her part is TYPICAL, emotional, and NOT fatal to your recovery efforts. It is an expected "phase" in the overall process.)

As long as your wife is in contact with the OM, the affair cannot "die" and your marriage cannot be recovered.





Yes.
Yes.
and Yes.


God bless

Ron,

Get the proof you need to satisfy any doubts YOU might have. Once you have that, expose the A.

Your WW probably feels you are standing by whenever she is ready. That makes her situation very safe, and you are the #2 guy, or the fallback option if choice #1 doesn't work out.

You need to become confidant, and atleast "appear" to be enjoying your life regardless of her choices. Go out with friends, enjoy life, stay busy, do not contact her, etc...

When she begins to see the grip on you slipping, she will want to know more about what your up to. Who you are spending time with, and why your not sitting around waiting for her return..."How could he get over losing me!"

Always reaffirm your love for her and desire to remain M. That nothing would make you happier than to get to work on the new and improved US, minus any outside interferences "I.E. OM".

Just make sure she is also aware your life is not on hold without her. Do this without saying a word, let her see it in your actions.

-JKT

Thank you so much everyone...this is overwhelming....
As far as exposure is concerned, her close family knows about what has gone on, and her employer has heard that she has been in an affair, but didn't do anything about it.... I expect that because the "professional" (hahs) contact has ended, the problem is gone for them.

Believe me, I have been looking for proof of any continued activity....I even left work to go by her place one night...just to see if he was there....he wasn't, but I saw his car in the distance......I followed, and when I caught up to him, I saw there was a woman in the car with him.....I said to myself, "I've got you!"...When I got closer, I saw the woman was his wife! Did I ever feel like a tool!

The hardest part of this is seeing how it affects our daughter...she's 5. She is happy and briht when she sees us together, but when one of us has to leave, the light leaves her face; it kills me......I wonder how a mother could do that to her child. However, my wife has decided to minimize all of that, and concentrate on how this situation will be good for her and everyone else. She's been listening to the people who tell her what she wants to hear!

Yesterday, I dropped Stephanie(my daughter) at my wife's apartment. She was really unhappy when I had to leave, and wouldn't leave my car...she wasn't letting me close the door, wanted to keep talkng to me, that sort of thing. I kept on talking to her; she was really unhappy, and I heard my wife say something to the effect of, 'lets not have any drama, be positive about this" I just about choked...

Ron, have you asked her, or do you already know, what SHE thinks is "attactive?"

It would seem from what you've written that she defines it as "physical attractiveness," so what might it be that she doesn't find physically "appealing" to her and is it anything that you can change? Or is it really something else that she thinks of when she says "attactiveness?"

When she says; "Sexually, she says she has no connexion with me, and this has been the case for years, if not all the time we have been together," I'm not "buying" this as the real reason. The reason I'm not buying this is that it would seem obvious that she DID find you attractive, and attractive enough to both marry and have a child with. So what I'm trying to understand is what has changed and why is she using that as an excuse now?

I'm on the same rollercoaster & my WH is living at home. One min. it's I don't know if I love you & the next it's I love you but I can't live with you. I also grieve for the ideal of what I thought I had. I just want my life back. I don't want anyone else & I'm not interested in looking. I just want the pain to stop & the healing to start between us. My WH also admits that he has sex with me because there is no one else available (if that's all it is, why doesn't he go back to her for that since he has told me that is one of the reasons for the A?) I feel really used when he says that.



Mine told me just yesterday that if he doesn't love me, then there is nothing to work out & he doesn't know if he wants to love me again. That sometimes he wants it to work & sometimes he doesn't. I just keep telling him that he loved me once & he can love me again. But the hurt sure runs deep every time I hear these words from him.

Ron,

I'm sure you have already seen numerous other posts that if you replace a few names, and events could be you.

You WW is doing as many to almost all WW/WH's who came before her have done. "She is rewriting your M history"

"I've never found you attractive" I suspect is something you would have been aware of prior to her involvement with OM. This ia a byproduct of her fantasy romance. She has replaced fact with fiction.

It's your job to realize this is the fog talk, the B.S. that will come out of her mouth is not you W, but what she has become.

Ever see the Exorcist? Guess what roles you and WW assume in this?

Standby for projectile vomiting, and spinning heads!

Hang in there

-JKT

Thank you everyone...I've been re-reading all the posts, and they encourage me....and scare the crap out of me at the same time! One of the hardest things to deal with in all of this, not even counting the distractions of the other guy, is that she has surrounded herself with people that support her point of view. All of the friends she has mentioned are all saying things like "look after yourself', "your happiness is all that's important", and "your daughter will be fine, she'll adapt, and it won't bother her"

Anyone who has anything to say contrary to that is shunned, so she doesn't ever get the 'slap in the face'. Even her sister thinks she's nuts.



Thanks again, everyone,

Ron

Well that's pretty typical Ron. Do you really think she'd surround herself with people who tell her she's acting like a wh0re?

Lol....you are so right Big.

I guess one of the things (other than encouragement) that I'm looking for is advice on a plan of action. My wife wants to be "friends", and I obviously want to win her back. Should I be cool and unavailable, or nice and accomodating. Should I try to "date" her, or keep her at arms length?

Any contact I have with her takes a huge toll on me, which I'm willing to pay if I had some idea that it works out in the end.

Have you talked to the other man's wife yet?

I would agree with MindW. and JustKeep....get out there. That's what I did, I stopped asking my WH about the OW and started doing my own thing, and its bothered him...then he started giving me this speech about "fighting for him" he felt insulted that I was moving on. Stuff. Of course then the jerk started using that as an excuse for him to continue seeing the OW. But I always told him that I loved him and that I wanted the marriage to work but I will not share him.

See, this was before MB. So I was implementing Plan B before Plan A, but that was before I knew anything about Plan B or Plan A. Reading the website, I decided to do Plan A. He's not with her any more he says and as far as I can tell.

So get out there. and (2) what ever she finds unattractive, get rid of it...but not for her. For yourself. Ok ok maybe its for her a lil. But Lets say her problem with you is that you are a little over weight, then lose the weight you are over but to be attractive to other people. Don't make it seem like you are losing weight or changing whatever for her. You're just trying to better yourself. Did that make any sense, its hard to type what I'm thinking?

Don't go whining to her to come home all the time. Keep doing Plan A but when she's not around don't sit at home waiting for her to come home.

Trust me...because just like you're going by her place, she is going by yours to see what you're doing.

My WH, when i was staying with my parents, if he didnt see my car park out front on a saturday night...trust me I heard about it the next time i saw him (can you imagine, he screwing another b**** but he worried about what i'm doing). SELFISH! But I just let him wonder, but I never said anyting stupid like Im sleeping with another man or anything like that, remember to let them know that you love them but you arent going to sit home and pout over them either.

Try it, she may still be confused, but I bet you'll be on her mind more often than you are now.

Look at it like this: you must be giving her something she aint pushed the divorce issue.

Believer....I haven't talked to her yet; like I mentioned earlier, I only have what I call a strong suspicion. I don't have proof, either from her mouth or my own observation about who this guy is. I don't see how I can call a woman up, and tell her her husband is cheating on her, when I don't know for certain. I'm spying as much as I can to see if there is anything going on, so far, nothing concrete.

Walking, thanks for your advice....I'm goinng out and doing things, seeing people, that sort of thing. She doesn't really find anything unattractive about me (so she says), she's just not attracted to me anymore. A tougher hill to climb, I think. What really is the most difficult is when we are together, It really hurts. I look at her expression, and it seems almost sad, but I don't know why. Is it because she doesn't want to hurt me more, is she sad for what has been lost? I dont know. I would really like to know what's going on in her head.

I have a hard time not reaching out to her. I want her to know that I love her and want to stay together (she knows already) I almost feel I should start to keep her at arms length, for my sanity, if nothing else.

Thanks everyone,

Ron