Ron, this caught my eye!

If there's still contact it must be broken - period. If he's military you have HUGE leverage against him.

If she sends NC letter and there's contact, then you contact his Chain of Command - period.

If you need further info on how to do this, let me know.

L2F....

Thanks. I would love to know how to go about that, this is the Canadian military, if it makes any difference.

As far as things are going, there isn't much change. I spoke with her on the phone, while I am away she wants to go to the house to get some of her things and some more clothes for our daughter. I trust her not to do anything, take anything (not there's anything to take! The only valuable things in the house are our pictures, and she's not likely to take those right now)

I don't like the idea of her being in the house on a gut level, after all, she would likely not give me the keys to her apartment! However, I let her go, for the sake of being cooperative and so our daughter could have more to wear.

Conversations are still cordial, but not loving. I'm trying my best to be hopeful and optimistic, but it's a tough balance...

Braeworth, I wish I were you right now!

My mom wants me to go see her this weekend, with daughter. She had the idea of seeing the Christmas windows at the downtown department store, and then going skating on the city hall skating rink.

She suggested that I invite wife to go with us.. she always loved wife like her own daughter, but hasn't spoken with her, or seen her since the ball dropped in March. I think that she will likely say no, as she would probably feel too intimidated/uncomfortable being there with my mother.

I would love to give it a shot, what does everyone else think?

Ron

hmmmmmmmm....I could say so much.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, I have NO idea what the Canadian equivalent of the UMCJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) is and how it's applied in cases like this. In any case, I'm sure that his Chain of Command would be interested if there's still contact - especially if he's married (can't remember if he is).

In any event Ron, continue to avoid DJs and LBs and use this time to work on YOU.

Keep the faith!

L2F

I'd invite your wife to go as well - that is good Plan A behaviour. Don't shield your wife from consequences.

Thanks! I'm wondering what she's going to think about that, since 15 year old son number2 invited himself over, is going to tell her he misses her, and that he wants her back too!

Doesn't matter what she thinks does it?

no, it doesn't...She'll think what she thinks.....:-)

exactly

Well, I called her up this evening. We had a nice friendly talk about everything and nothing, talked about both step-sons going over to her place for supper tomorrow night and then the next. It was quite nice and pleasant.

I told her I was taking Stephanie to see the Christmas windows and then skating with my Mom, and that mom wanted me to invite wife to come along. I did, and she politely refused, (not a surprise, really) said it would be too uncomfortable for her right now, she said 'let me sort myself out first". She said to have a good time with mom and daughter.

Anyway, the conversation after that still kept on in a good tone.......the invitation didn't seem to set off anything negative in her mind.

She also said to call anytime (more in the context of speaking to daughter).

That's all the news that's happening now, until the boys go see her for supper, and report on her mood/reaction.

Your comments and suggestions are huuugely appreciated

Ron

I haven't heard how the dinner went yet.

I have a question. I would really like to get my wife to fill out the emotional needs questionnaire, and to join me in counselling, either local or with the Harleys.

I know in Plan A, talking about the relationship is not supposed to happen. At what point does putting those two requests become appropriate? I really want to get something going, but I know that patience is critical. Is a request like that ok, or would it be pushing the envelope to far?

Ron

I've thought of another question to ask, if I may....

What do you think of me calling up the OM, and talking to him about the situation? I remember seeing this mentioned in other posts, but which ones, I don't recall.

I was thinking about saying things like "my son has figured out what you and my wife have done", "you seeing her is killing the chances for my marriage", that sort of thing.

Any comments?

Thank you for any ideas...

Ron

Just ask her to fill it out. Make it about you. Tell her you're trying to work on yourself and you would appreciate her input. Then don't pressure her about it.

Unless you have something you can do to pressure or threaten the OM then I don't see what talking to him is going to accomplish. He knows what he's doing, so do you. He doesn't care what you think about it.

Thanks Tyk,

I was thinking of contacting him on the assumption that the A is over, and it's just my wife's obsession/infatuation/withdrawl from him. Tonight she mentioned getting my other sons a job working with them at this racetrack (mentioned in an earlier post I think) for the summer.

I would really like for that NOT to happen!

ron

Ahh sorry man, got a little confused! I still say no don't call him. Don't worry about the summer job right now, that's a long ways off and hopefully by then you'll have a NC agreement in place. Pick your battles, you don't need to fight that one right now imo.

Ok, then other than a good Plan A, can you suggest anything else to get her mind "out of the gutter" so to speak? Would asking her to again to have NC again be worthwhile here, or would that damage my Plan A efforts?

It's difficult to do all this with her not living in the house!

thanks again Tyk,

You seem to be making some progress with her Ron. It sounds like you're doing a good Plan A and she seems to be noticing. I know you want to DO something, but if you look back at where you started your thread and what was going on then and where you're at now, you really are making some progress. Plan A is about you, really. Everyone thinks its about "convincing" the WS, but its not. Its about you examining yourself, owning your part for the break down in the M, and making yourself into a better spouse. You're doing that. It is ultimately up to your W to make the decision. You CAN NOT MAKE HER DO THAT.

Demanding NC when she hasn't committed to the M is not going to be productive. NC at this point is really irrelevant isn't it? There will be a time, when she agrees that she wants to work with you to repair the M, to present NC as a condition for you agreeing to attempt to do that with her. But first she has to want the M.

I know Plan A says you aren't supposed to talk R, and I agree with that up to a point, especially early in the process. But at some point you are going to have to push a little to see where she's at. Again, I don't know if that time is now for you. I think the timing for this type of talk is shortly before you're ready to implement Plan B. During that conversation I think you should simply lay out what you are going to need to happen in order to be willing to attempt recovery with her.

Plan B is also about you, its about removing yourself from the pain and protecting your remaining love for your W. Its a last ditch effort and before you go into it you need to know in your heart that you've done all you can.

I think you're doing well. If you can hold on a while longer, I think you should. I think you should try to push for some more time with her, I think you really need that. You gotta do what you can to get her to see you have made changes. She said she's not ready to throw in the towel, so ask her out. If she's reluctant, just tell her "I know you're still questioning us, but I really have been working on things. Don't you want to KNOW before you make a decision? How can we know if we don't spend any time together? C'mon, dinner at "her favorite place", my treat?" Something like that? If she declines, she declines, and it is just another piece of the puzzle helping you make your decision. I just think you should try to push that without being pushy, if you know what I mean? Provide opportunities, and bring a little light pressure to bear if you have to.

I think you're at a bit of a delicate crossroads right now, she's moving slowly towards you it seems. So I don't think you should do anything drastic. If the holding pattern continues much longer, or if you just can't take it anymore, then start planning to shake the tree. Let me know when you're ready to shake, I'll be happy to help plot with ya. Hopefully it won't come to that.

Thanks Tyk.

That's a great leg up....It helps to refocus things.

I talked to my son about going out for supper at her place last week. He said it was a really good night, he stayed there almost three hours! He decided not to tell her he wanted her to come back, he said that he was too nervous, didn't want it to sound cheesy, and that it didn't seem to be the right moment. That's all good, I told him, just him being there was important.

I was on the phone with her last night, and she told me she had a really good time with him. Told me he wouldn't stop talking about things, it was more than he has spoken in the last 3 years. (This son was so close to her initially, he was practically glued to her, but things gradually changed, and it was fairly poisounous in the last year)

Thanks again Tyk, that cleared up a few things for me!

Ron

I'm not sure if I mentioned something about my wife's "lack of attraction" for me.

Throughout our time together, she always had a lower sex drive than what I would have liked. She told me almost from the very beginning, that she had problems with sex because of an issue with a previous b/f, which made her think of sex as 'dirty'. She said she felt cheap and whorish whenever she started to get in the mood. Having said that, there were lots of times when we had some really good sex, and she was into it just as much as me. My wife can't lie, and when she told me that story about the former b/f, she was telling the truth. In all of this, I admit, I was pretty selfish at times, made a lot of mistakes and LB's.

Fast forward to one year ago, wife had some sessions with her sister (a counsellor of sorts), to address the issue. It seemed to be working well, her interest in sex was much greater. This happened to be the time when the OM was in the picture. I don't know if this is a chicken or the egg situation, ie, did she have more interest in sex as this guy arrived, or did she have more interest in sex because he was there?

Anyway, as I said before she claims to have no interest in me sexually, and says that there never really was any at all. I think that she's saying that, completely ignoring the issue with the former b/f, so she can justify where she's at now.

It seems like we are speaking with each other every other day at least lately, the conversations are fun, laughs and all of that. I really wish I could hear her say "I love you" I really miss her; this Plan A is my last ditch effort to make up some ground. I asked her over for supper this week, (knowing that she had a lot of things planned already....I just wanted to see how she would answer). She declined, but nicely, saying she was busy almost every night, and asked to take a raincheck. One of the nights she is having the three boys over. Part of their Plan A!

I wish I could tell if this behaviour of hers is indicative of her being receptive to me, or is she being like this so that we "can be friends". I'd love to ask her, but that would be a baaaad idea, I know.

Anyway, thanks for reading, if you have any comments or advice, I am always grateful!

Ron

Tonight, the world came down on my head again....

My wife was dropping daughter off at my place after an after school thing. She was in a great mood, happy, smiling; one of the boys asked her if she would like to stay and help us decorate the Christmas tree. She said she couldn't she had to run.....Typical sort of exchange we have had....light, friendly....

I took our daughter out to dance lessons, and happened to drive past her place.....and guess what I saw????

The slime's car parked outside her apartment......

I just about blew a gasket. I wanted to go up to her door right there and confront both of them....

I have an appointment with the Harley's thursday night....I'm almost tempted to pull the plug on that....Crap.....this really stinks huge.

Is anyone out there? I could use some encouragement......