Thanks DM.
I appreciate the vote of confidence! So far, there's no reply to the letter. I wasn't expecting anything really, but I was hoping she'd have called to speak to him tonight. Nothing. I'm sure she will call him, but if not, then she's a complete write-off as far as I'm concerned.

She's treated me like crap, but i won't stand for her doing that to him, especially after he put his heart into that letter.

Incidentally, I spoke to the babysitter tonight...(i dropped off a valentines present and card for Steph) She told me WS is absoulutely cold when it comes to Steph's reactions.....basically, she's going to have to get used to the idea that her parents are separated, that that's the way it is.. life ain't easy, you don't get everything you want in life....that sort of thing.....

Jesuz.....how can someone be so cold?

Now, that is a hypothetical question...more pissed than pining, if you get my drift...She said she wanted to be amicable, to be friends, but she sure is doing all she can to be unpleasant about things.....

Any FWS's out there who can comment on that? Were you ever so callous about other's feelings?

Yes.

It's part of the script.

But, it isn't a permanent condition.

When the A ends, so will the hardness of heart.

~ Marsh

Interesting thing today. I've practically not spoken with WS for a couple of weeks...email or two back and forth, but that's it. She got the letter, and responded fairly quickly actually. She emailed me, asking me to call her today.....hasn't happened before, the letter seems to have made a strong impression! Anyway, I called her back, and her voice and tone was far more engaging than it has been in a long time......

I've learned not to read anythig into anything....it's more a point of interest than anything else!

Thanks Marsh!

And the rollercoaster goes back up................

Maybe it is good that you don't speak to her for awhile. Let her realize that you are not going to be sitting around moping about her being gone.

I won't be...I"m finding life a heck of a lot easier and more pleasant when I don't include her in my mind.

The roller coaster may be going up, but I'm on the bumper cars!

Well, here’s the latest. I read the letter WS sent, here’s a synopsis…

The first 8 pages are a story, she copied from another author. The moral of the story is that you alone are responsible for your happiness, if you give it to someone else, you lose control over it, and you are dependant on them for your happiness, either for good, or for bad.

She then talks about how when we get married, we make promises we can’t keep, that it is impossible for us to make each other happy, because we don’t truly know what the other wants. She repeats that her happiness has to come from within.

She then goes on to talk about the unhappy life she was having before she left, issues with the kids, disappointment in the way they treated each other and her, she comments on a power struggle she had with them, where she lost.

Basically, she talks about how unhappy she was, and that nothing I or the boys did ever improved things. It certainly wasn’t enough to fill her love bank. She also mentioned our sex life, which wasn’t enough to compensate for everything else.

She finishes off by saying her love for me diminished and at the end she felt more resentment than love, she was going through the motions, and that she was going to ‘lose her mind.’

She then says she wants to meet with me to discuss things, “Iam thinking about a lot of things right now, once I feel I am ready to talk to you, I will invite you over”

She signs it, WS, your friend

Then there’s a PS, mentioning son’s letter. She says she’s not cheated on me, and she’s not involved with WS. He is a friend. She says that she should give me a 2nd chance, but being obligated to do something doesn’t give good results. She claims we were looking at our recent life through rose coloured glasses.

She says that she’s being made out to be the bad guy, and I’m the innocent. “You are good at putting yourself in this situation as f you have nothing to do with the separation” --(that part realllllllly pisses me off!! I’ve defended her honour and integrity against all comers, and have told everyone that I’m responsible for at least half of the problem…)

She finishes off by saying son needs help, he can’t accept the first separation, he can’t understand, he thinks it’s shameful to have parents who are separated.


So, that’s where I’m at…she asked today if I had read the letter, and when would I like to meet to discuss things… I told her I wanted to re-read the letter a few more times (stall for time), and she said for me to call whenever I was ready. I fully expect she’s going to drop the axe. It looks like I’m not going to get into a Plan B before this happens.

Other than saying she hasn’t had an affair, she makes no mention at all about the things she’s said about the OM….ie. feelings for him, visits to her apartment…..his car at a hotel she was staying at. either she’s trying to delude herself, or she’s thinking I’m fool.

I’m sure this is a fairly difficult post to understand,,,,apologies in advance!

Any ideas or suggestions? How would a Plan B letter work here… any thoughts on how I should handle the “discussion” anything at all?

Thanks,
ron

They always seem to be in denial. Or they KNOW they are cheating, but think if they lie about it, it isn't happening. My ex insisted for several years that he was NOT

Well, Ron, I really don't think there's much to discuss...do you? She is out of the house, so you have a better shot at Plan B than most of the men on this board. Her mind is made up, and nothing you say is going to change it. It will just turn into an argument and she is way too foggy to "get it" anyways.

Have you spoken to the Harleys? See if you can get that set up asap and then write your PBL in the meantime. Talk to them to get your plan firmed up. You know a good Plan B is very dark, for your sake. You MUST have an intermediary. So many times on this board I hear people say "OH, he/she will refuse to speak through someone else." The FACT is-it isn't up to them...PERIOD. They WILL speak through someone else if that is their only form of communicating with you. Plan B is YOUR show, buddy, not hers.

Your finances are spearated already, right? Do you have a L, I can't remember? Make sure everything you do IN Plan B will not hurt you legally. That way she cannot flush you out with threats that you know are unsubstantiated ahead of time. Be honest with your kids, let them know you love them and that you love their mother but that you won't let yourself be hurt by her any more.

Make sure when you write your PBL, you are crystal clear that she is having an affar, and that you have PROOF! She needs to know her head games don't work and that you are not stupid. Good grief, your SON knew...oh, the fog!!!!

How are YOU holding up?

Thanks Res..I agree with you....there's not much to discuss at all..it seems like she's made up her mind, nothing I, or anyone else can do about it...

I've had two sessions with Jennifer....her last one was to continue with Plan A, for at least a couple of weeks more (that would have ended a week ago) and then go to Plan B, if I have had enough. My current problem is the intermediary.....not having much luck in finding one that's not female (a nono as far as Jennifer is concerned)

Our finances are all separate, we don't have an LSA yet, but I have about 7 months of precedent behind me now. I've been completely honest with the kids.....the big ones know everything that's gone on, is going on, and what will go on. They know how I feel, and what I want....they are in the same boat as me.

And me? Not too bad, really...my apathy levels are rising, the 'triggers' aren't hit nearly so often....I'm beginning to think that I really don't need this crap, and that I'm ready to show her the door.

Question for ya....should I have the 'discussion' with her, or just go to Plan B, and to heck with what she has to say?

R

No discussion...here's why-

It will do you no good, it will go south quickly and ruin the end of a good Plan A. Remember, you want to go into Plan B on a good note, not a bad one. Make sure your PBL is sweet but firm, just like many of the PBL examples here. It will say all that needs saying, yanno.

I'm so glad your kids are supportive of you. Kids are great, aren't they! You know, I went back and started reading your thread from the beginning. You were in a really bad way when you got here. You sound like a whole new man, now...GOOD FOR YOU!!! You need to be PROUD of yourself for hanging in there all this time. Building yourself back up and becoming strong again...


(((((ron))))))

You deserve the very best!!

Thanks Res.....your post really makes me feel ok about myself..It's not so much as it makes me feel better, I'm getting there on my own, your encouragement is great...Thanks again!

You are very welcome, ron...

I think she will freak when you go Plan B, by the way...just you wait and see. Get that intermediary thing worked out! You know, the only thing you need to really be careful about is who brings Steph back and forth between you...the emails and phone calls aren't that hard to mediate with just about anyone. Do you have a brother or someone in the family close by?

Ron,
Just wondering.. why aren't you in plan B yet?? You need to pull the trigger. Don't meet with her, just go there. If you think she's going to drop the axe, let your L handle it if you have one, if not get one. Go dark.


Exactly, don't listen to that fog crap. Yeah, you and your son are the ones with the problem, right? She didn't have an affair, so what's all the fuss??

Let's see how much "happiness comes from within" when she has time to sit in silence for awhile and wonder what her family's doing. Make sure you have fun with the kids and let her hear about it.

Do it Ron. I'll be there with you soon if I don't beat you to it.


DM

Hello everyone, I've been away for a while, trying to get things together, get on with life, that sort of thing... Anyway, I thought I would drop in to share a bit of an update.

I haven't really been on a Plan B, more of the plan indifferent, basically answering her, acknowledging her existence, that sort of thing, but not being open at all to any kind of conversation.

The other day, WS called me up, and said she wanted to know if I would be interested in counselling. She said to "air out some of the issues". I don't know what her ultimate motive is in this, but I agreed to it, and I'm going to see her on tuesday, to talk about when, where, and what about.

I'm surprised to say the least, I would not have expected anything like that.....however, I'm not getting any hopes up, they've been burned away over the last year!

That's about it,

Ron

And was there a reason you didn't do a dark Plan B?

I think counseling is a mistake when there is an affair until there is no contact. You know what the problem is - THE AFFAIR- and until that is ended, no point in working on "airing out some of the issues".

Hi Believer,

I think I didnt go to B, because my sense of apathy overtook me before I got to anywhere else. I became too tired with the whole thing, burned out with it basically. If you were to ask me two months ago, I would have said something along the lines of "I don't give a rat's [censored]" about it. Basically, I ignored her, and wasn't bothered by it one bit.

I don't think this affair is still going on, to be honest. I think it's more an issue with her feelings (or lack thereof) for me. And if that's the case, it's done.

I'm going to meet her, more to satisfy my curiosity as to what's going on in her mind, but as I said, I don't suspect that there's going to be much of a change. I'll more than likely be inclined to not waste the money on counselling!

Ron

Affairs always cause the WS to lose feelings for the BS, but when the affair ends, they usually come right back. I don't think it happens as quickly as some people think. I know my ex's affair ended 2 weeks after our divorce in Jan. 07 and he didn't start actively being interested in me for about 7 months.

Well, here's the latest...

I wouldn't have thought that I would ever have written this, but there seems to be a 'crack in the dam'... WS and I met, to discuss the issue of counselling, and we 'sort of agreed' that it would be a good idea. She also suggested that we 'date' each other. No promises, or expressed intention on her part, but she wants to see me, and see where things go... She doesn't want to go to counselling together, as that might suggest that we "are together", but she wants to go, and wants to go to the same one.

We went out the other night, for a 'date', and it was a very good time. Last night, I went to the counsellor, and told my side of the story.....asked her if she was a 'marriage counsellor, or a separation counsellor...' She said she was a marriage counsellor.....has seen the damage done in all the divorces over the years.....

I'm probably going out on a very weak limb, but it seems that things might be looking up. I'm not prepared to gut myself, or submit to anything I don't want, but maybe, just maybe, she has turned around..... time will tell.

I did notice, that the mother's day card I sent her was still displayed on her table, 2 weeks after the day, when I picked her up for our 'date'. It may be nothing...but then again, it may be something....


Suggstions or advice are always welcome!

Ron

Ron,

My suggestion is go slow. Do you have any idea why she wants to "date" you now? Do you have any idea why the situation has changed?

What sort of advice has your counselor offered you with respect to all of this? Is your daughter mostly with you?

Just thoughts.

God Bless,

JL