I was told it might be better to post here, so I am going to copy me previous posting.

I am not sure what to do. Hopefully someone can help me. I found out 4 months ago that my husband had an EA. I kept finding evidence of it and he finally admitted it. I had suspected it during the time, but he either got so angry that I could even question something like that, or came up with excuses - and I wanted to believe him. I cannot stop thinking about it. I am not sure when it started and when exactly it ended. I believe the physical part ended when we were transferred and from what I know, the last contact he had with her was around Christmas - an email. I am so hurt and confused. I don't want anyone to find out what happened because I don't want our children to know what their father did. I have read the website and SAA and everything says to expose the affair. He refuses to go to counseling. We live in a big small town where everyone knows everyone else and their business. He said that the only way he would go for counseling was if I wanted a divorce, and he knows that I do not want that. He is a wonderful man, and I love him so much. He said that for so long he was not meeting any of my emotional needs that it made it hard for me to meet any of his. He had me get HNHN so that we could work through it to make sure that this never happened again. We could go through a chapter a week and work on what we read that week. That was in April. It seemed that each time I would bring up going through a chapter, he would get irritated. I finally decided that I would wait to see if he would do it. That was 6 weeks ago. This weekend, he said that we should go though the next chapter, but we never did. We have made it through 6 chapters.

He says that he is not sure when everything started, but that he befriended her. She had a husband that she said was cheating on her and he was there to support her. I have so many questions, but he said that he has told me everything that I need to know - that he made an awful mistake and we need to focus on the future and not live in the past. I know that and I am trying to do that, but there are so many reminders of that time period. I am still finding receipts - the last one just 2 weeks ago. What all is he supposed to tell me? What do I have a right to know? I want to know everything, but he says that I cannot handle it. I have guessed at so many things, I would like him to just tell me so that I am not wondering. I know that there are secret email accounts and that he used our miles to take her on several trips halfway around the world. He told me that he would have never taken her to a certain place and now I find out they probably had sex there. He will not give me access to the accounts and he said that he doesn't know any passwords to the emails. That she set everything up and he never used them, yet I found the logon on his computer. I told him last week that I was going to call her and ask her my questions and he was furious that I would even think to do that. Once again, me not letting go of the past.

He said that he is willing to do whatever it takes to keep us together, but he does not want anyone to know. The only people that I have talked to are health care professionals. I insisted that we both be tested for AIDS and STDs and even though he did not want to, he agreed. We went to a clinic that is not near where we live. He did not think that there was any possibility that she could have anything. Two weeks later, I found out that I have an STD that puts me at high risk for cervical cancer. He was brokenhearted that he had done that to me, but then tried to protect her by saying that maybe it wasn't from her. We were both virgins when we married, but now he tells me that he came close before but never actually had sex. In 20+ years, nothing ever showed up until now. I had to wait 6 weeks and then have a special test done by an OB/GYN. I could not go to my doctor because he is a family friend, so I had to go to a stranger 1 hour away. I have to go back next month and then every 6 months until I have a normal result. My husband was angry that I told the second doctor why I was there, that I should have just come up with somehow something happened before I was married. Now I will probably have to keep going to that doctor because they know my situation and what to look for. I am not going to lie about my health.

The only other person I can talk to is God, and we have had quite the conversations. My personal relationship with Christ is stronger than it has ever been - it has had to be to get through this. But I know that satan wants to break everything apart. I want to take something so awful and have good come from it. And I think it already has - our marriage is stronger than ever. I feel like we can talk to each other and really care about what the other is thinking and feeling. I have not been afraid to open up and show emotion lately. My husband has been trying so hard!! He has even brought me flowers and cards - something that he hadn't done for almost 12 years. He really wants me to feel better. He has been trying to meet my emotional needs and I have been trying to meet his. I have good days and bad days. A few weeks ago, I wanted to end it all. I just want the pain to go away. But 2 things happened - I could not find the pills that would just let me go to sleep and not wake up, and he got really sick. I realized that I could not leave my kids like that and that it was a selfish way out. I just want to know how long the hurt lasts!! There are days that I just double over - it is a physical pain that washes over me. I try to act happy, but my kids want to know what is wrong with me. I tell them I am tired or have a headache. I want to make it through a day without sobbing in the shower - my only private place. I want to make love to my husband without thinking about him with her and breaking out in tears. When does it go away??

You may tell me to talk to my pastor. I cannot do that - he and his wife are some of our dearest friends. My mother-in-law would be good to talk to - my father-in-law had, from what I understand, a very public affair. The way my husband put it, 'he rubbed her face in it'. He uses them as an example of being able to survive an affair without counseling. But she had friends and family to help her. As I said earlier, I have Christ and my husband. He has let me vent and curse him and cry, but I know that he is tired of it and wants it to stop. I do too!! I realize that I was not the perfect wife - still am not and never will be - and that I was probably too proud because I knew that my Christian husband would never have an affair.

I look at King David and all of his imperfections - he also had an affair - and look how God used him. He was a man after God's own heart. I am trying to see my husband as God sees him - still a work in progress. I just feel like I am failing miserably.

Sorry for the long post - I am new to this. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

feeling,
So sorry you have had to find this place, but it's a great place to find. It looks like you only registered today. Have you done much reading here? I'm glad you are reading Surviving an affair and His needs/ her needs.

Hopefully some on the experts will jump in here for you. But it sounds like your husband is still in the WS (wayward spouse) fog. I don't get the feel from what you have said that he has stopped contact. No Contact (NC) must take place. It is forever, there is no other option. How much information you need, want is also variable. Yes, the information will hurt, some of it will haunt you for a very long time, we each have our own different needs to amount of information (You know he had sex, he gave you HPV that he got from her, your health is at risk for the next several years-I got the same, good news, take your vitamins and most of us can fight it off with our own immune system) He still thinks she's good and couldn't possibly have a disease (WS fog) There is counseling over the phone through this site. If your WH is afraid of public exposure in your town then he can't argue with phone couseling. This is for you and your marriage. The time for it to all be about him is over, it ended the day he crossed every one of those lines. And if he is still in contact then you must expose, Affairs thrive in secrecy and shrivel and die in the open.

Read here, call the Harley's for yourself even if not for both of you. You will get good advice and can start moving forward towards healing and recovering. It is a long road, noit for the faint of heart.

Best wishes

FTS

there is hope for you feeling_pain. knowledge is power - start reading thru the articles on this main site to get a better understanding of what's going on as most affairs have a lot in common. i'm so sorry you're hurting <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sorry - new to this. In my original post I said EA - thought that was extramarital affair. It was both an EA and physical affair.

Feeling,

I hate to say this,but I agree with Fled. It sounds like your husband is still perhaps seeing OW. My advise to you is to find out the truth. Your H does should not be able to pick & choose what he is honest about, especially regarding his A. It sounds like he is still in the fogspeak/entitlement attitude. After 4 months, it seems he should be getting to the point where he is more open & honest with you regarding his A. That is why I am thinking he is still in contact with OW. It may not be physical, but any contact will keep in in the wayward state of mind.

Snoop, snoop, snoop!!!! You deserve to know the truth so that you know what you are dealing with, & you can make the best choices for YOU!!!!


Tip: My very biggest mistake was not exposing after dday#1, this allowed dday 2 to take place & that was even more damaging. Be careful, remember, your WH is looking out for himself & may just be trying to keep it under wraps so he can continue to have his cake & eat it too!

fp, I would suggest putting a keylogger on his computer to find out if he is still in contact. It sounds like he is hiding something or he would want to open up his life to you. People who don't have anything to hide, don't hide.

I would suggest finding out the status of the affair and then exposing it, starting with the OW's H. I think it is also a good idea for you to call up the OW and have a chat with her. Let her know you are married and will fight for your marriage. Tell her that there is no future in her affair with your H because his family will never accept her.

Once you find out the current state of the affair, I would pursue getting the full truth from him. You have a right to everything about his affair since this is information about YOUR LIFE. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ENSURING YOUR OWN RECOVERY and cannot leave that in the hands of the one who caused all the damage.

For example:
Now wouldnt it be silly to imagine that he was qualified to decide what is in your best interest? Is the rapist qualified to decide what is in the rape victims best interest? Of course not. you know what you need to recover and you know that it will take complete HONESTY. Not telling you the truth about the affair is to add insult to injury, it is compounding the crime by adding lies to adultery. Honesty is the solution to adultery, not more lies. Trust cannot ever be regained as long as he has secrets with the OW to which you are not privy.

So, start taking accountability for your own recovery, painful, and stop allowing him to silence you. But first things first, find out what he is hiding and get prepared to expose to the OWH, no matter what you find.

Joseph's letter:

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

My sister in Christ!!!
I have a feeling that you are in a hurry to get to the 'better' stage. The part where your M has survived, is better, and now the two of you lead seminars on how to have a really great M. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
here is what puzzles me:


and yet you say:



it sounds like things are slowly improving, and perhaps things are better than they were before the A. BUT he still won't answer all your questions, still keeps secrets from you, and you have clearly uncovered some lies. it is OK for you to be angry with him! it is Ok for you to tell him "I NEED help. I NEED answers. I NEED support."

At the least, I would suggest that you tell him:
"I love you, and I am thrilled with the progress we have made. But I need help. I need support. Your mom, my friend, our pastor, a counselor. Something. I need this for me. I do not want to humilate you, but I need help, for ME. I am sick to my stomach way too often. I want to move on, but I have reached a raod block and need help.

And do not let him tell you no.

you have value. You are Gods child!! You need healing. for your sake, and your kids, you need to seek help. Your H made a mistake. it can be healed. But he is not going to call all the shots here. you get to make your own requests as well. he took her to a place that was special to you and had sex with her! That is a hard pill to swallow, and you need to ask questions, and get answers. You have made a choice to forgive him, and stay married to him. That was your choice, and very admirable. But he needs to get busy working at it. Cards and flowers are nice - but they are also an easy fix. They do not take much emotional energy. My sister, you wanted to take your own life!! Please lsiten to me. pull up your boots, and start telling him what you need for your healing. he got you into this mess-he get you out of it.

Thank you for the words of wisdom and encouragement. I have done quite a bit of reading on the website and am working my way through SAA again. I am working through HNHN with my husband - reading aloud to each other. It seems that I find something new in the Bible each day - it is as if I am reading some favorite passages for the first time.

I don't think that they have had any physical contact. Logistics would prevent that, unless he used our miles again, or she paid for her own way. I asked if he had used our miles to bring her here and he said no. I have told him that I would not access his account but that I would still like him to show it to me. He said that it would be like one of our kids being killed in a car accident and having the ability to look at it again and again. The receipt that I found 2 weeks ago was from the time period of the affair. It was wadded up and shoved in the corner of a suitcase that had not been used in over a year.

He has said that the last contact he had with her was the email at Christmas. He told me that he sent her the email, along with sending the same one to other people that he used to work with. I had told him that I did not want him to have any contact with her before that, and I blew up. I said that I did not know what all had happened, but that I wanted her purged from our lives. This was before I really knew about the affair. I think after that, he found this website. He was the one that told me about MB (after he told me about the affair). He said that he did not realize that he should NEVER have ANY contact with her. That he knew that he would never see her again and that it was just a friendly email. He was hoping that I would never find out about the affair and that he would have to live with the secret so that I was not hurt. He promised me that he would never have any contact with her and threw away any gifts that she had given to him.

As far as I know, there is no husband to expose her to. I am not sure that she was even married. I never saw a picture of him at her desk and he never came to any of the work events with her. She said that she had a cheating husband, but in all the time that I knew her, she seemed to be leading a single life - going out to nightclubs. She even asked my H to go with her - he had told me that she had asked and we even kind of joked about it. This was shortly after she started working for him, before their affair started.

As far as the secret emails, he said that she set them up and that he never used them. But the way that I found out about it was that the logon was on his computer. He said that she could have used his computer and that was why it was there, but I was able to break into her email account (how, I don't know because I am a computer idiot). The account was set up the day after we moved here - it has her name and contact info but uses his birthday and has sports info on the homepage that only he would follow. I was never able to get into what I think is his email and he says that he does not know the password.

In February, I read in a Dennis Rainey book about EAs. After reading that, I was convinced that was what had happened. As I said before, I knew that my H could never have an affair, but this seemed to describe things. I asked him if he ever thought that I did not love him and told him why I was asking. He started to open up more and then in April admitted to the PA.

I used Joseph's letter, but rewrote it to include some personal things from our situation to better reflect how I felt. I am not sure that it went over really well. This was just after I found out, and when we first sat down to talk about things. I think that he was trying to protect himself, and trying to protect me from finding out more hurtful things. We were both hurting I now realize. I told him that I already know the worst, and that there is nothing that he could do to make me stop loving him. I hope that I am proving that by still being here day after day, even when there are days that I want to give up. He says that I can't handle it because of the way that I reacted about the trips. Maybe if he had told me instead of me guessing, it would have been better. I don't know. He said that I accused him of doing things that he did not do and he seems to feel better about that. One time I showed up at his office, on a Saturday, when he said that he was there, but he was nowhere to be found. I had gone to change cars with him, but the car was not there. The security guards said that they had not seen him, but he swears he was there. I called, texted and emailed him for 6 hours and then he calls from home as if nothing had happened. To this day he still says that he was there. But he can't explain why he never responded to my numerous tries to contact him – every few minutes. Is this another thing that I cannot handle?

I am in a hurry to get to the better stage. I am trying to fill the love bank and keep the deposits high. Trying to avoid the Busters. It seems like to do this is to not bring up the affair. He says that every time we talk about it, it just makes him remember everything that he has tried to forget. He says that whenever he thinks of her, it makes him want to vomit, that he is so disgusted with himself. That he could have hurt the only woman that he has ever loved was the worst thing that he could have imagined. But he can read me like a book. He can tell when I am thinking about it and then it makes it hard for both of us. He says that he feels like all I want to do is punish him. I want us to heal!

He has tried to protect me from hurtful things. I think that he honestly had know idea how hurt and violated I would feel. I told him that one of the most hurtful things that he did was at our going away party. He thanked her profusely and publicly for the great job that she did, and then he asked if I wanted to say anything. I asked if he was sure that he was done and he said that he was. I almost asked how he could thank another woman like that and fail to even mention his wife. I wanted to expose him then, but he had denied everything so well, that I thought I would make a fool of myself if I was wrong. He said that he did not even realize that he had done that and has made an effort to tell me and others how proud he is of my accomplishments, no matter how small they are.

He went through our family computer and deleted anything having to do with her. He went through all of the digital pictures and deleted those as well. He did the same with his work computer. When we moved, there were some things that she had given to us as a family, and he said to try to figure out which boxes they would be in and he would unpack them and get rid of them so I wouldn’t have to see them. Of course, they were in one of the very crushed unmarked boxes that the movers made me unpack in front of them to see what was damaged. H wasn't there for that. The things had not a scratch on them until I took a hammer to them later that night after the kids were in bed. They would have wondered why Mom was beating a candle and other the other things. There were other boxes that I would start to unpack and just left for him because I wasn't sure what was in them. When we have moved, that is usually my job - he hates the moving process, but he did not complain about doing it at all.

We pray each day in the name of Jesus to bind satan from our family. I am also praying that his heart be softened to seek help. If not for both of us, then it will be just for me, but I think that we both need it to work together. Even after all of the unknowns, I still feel that we are working toward a better marriage. I don't want there to be secrets. He will say that by me posting to this website, that I am keeping a secret from him. I will tell him, very soon, and will have him read everything. But right now, I need guidance from someone other than him. If it is any indication, since I first posted two days ago, I have not cried. This is a sad place to be, but I know that I am not alone. Thanks so much!!

fp, did you fall for that? It sounds very much like he is still hiding something from you. If he had nothing to hide, he would gladly show you his account, but instead he tells you openly that what you do find will be painful. That sounds like an admission to me. I find his excuses to keep secrets from you to be quite intellectually insulting. They are not even clever excuses.

And for him to refuse to give you the facts that you need in order to recover, bespeaks a very secretive wayward who has something to hide and doesnt care if you recover. And of course, he is not qualified to decide what is in your best interest, only you are. It is in his best interest to continue to fool you so he can do what he wants behind your back.

I hope you don't fall for his rationalizations.

Just know that recovery cannot ever happen until he is open and honest about his past and completely transparent about his life.

Do you need a referral for a good keylogger to monitor his computer activities? Have you checked into a P.I.?

FP,
of course he can see it in your face, so can mine. Even if what is bothering me isn't related to the A or him, his reaction is to think first that something from the A is what is bothering me. We move up from there. I am over two years out from discovery. There are some things you say that indicate he is interested in your M, but there are other behaviors that wave red flags otherwise. All the red flags must go away before you can begin to heal. As you begin to heal, then if he is truly remorseful, he can begin to heal and the two of you can begin to rebuild your trust and M. You can't do it in isolation, he can't hide from the demon he created. He must become open and transparent, and if he's worth saving from himself he will be there to hold you while he stops lying and hiding the truth from you.

Can you afford to call the Harley's for IC? Can you start there?

I know that there are red flags. Maybe I am still in denial that he could have possible done what he did. I am still hoping that HE will come to me with the information, but I don’t want to have to wait forever. I feel like I am losing my mind with my imagination running wild.

I have been gathering strength from what I have been reading on the website this week. I have been wanting to do some things to help both of us heal, not just me, and I am still trying to figure out the order to do them.

I know that one of them will be to call the Harley’s if he will not agree to go to someone here. We cannot do this just the two of us cruising through blindly. We can sometimes read the same thing and come out with completely different views on the subject. I know that there is a couple in our church – he had the affair and produced a child, and after many years they are still going strong. If I can find a counselor nearby that will help us heal, I think that would be good. If he still refuses to go to someone local, I will call the Harley’s for myself.

Another is to see the accounts – and have unlimited access to them. He has to go on a trip for a few days next week. I am tempted to fly out and surprise him, but I may also use it as a trial separation. No contact with me – and I will only give him the SAA book to read. Only talk to him after he has read it.

I will also have him read this thread while he is gone. I am hoping that he will read some of the other posts as well. I may copy and send him a few favorites.

I would appreciate any recommendations for a key logger. After reading this, he may refuse – like I said, the security is crazy even for the employees – but he may also agree just so that I have peace of mind. I wish that I had hired a PI where we used to live – they were all around there. I really don’t think that there is any way that they could have been together physically since we moved here. Since I found out, he has gone out of his way to not have to stay overnight anywhere. When he does, he makes sure that I know every detail of his schedule, who he is traveling with and I can call at any hour of the night. But I guess I should even wonder about that. I told him that after one of his trips I had thought about going to the airport to surprise him. It turned out that it was one of the trips that she was on. He said that I would not have seen her, so I guess it was set up so that they did not travel together so that no one from work would see them. He said that she set the trips up – maybe she was experienced from doing it before?

Thank you Melody and Fled so much. I think you have an idea of how much I appreciate your words!

An affair does not have to be physical to be an affair. Any contact at all constitutes an affair.

fp, I wouldn't bother with a keylogger if you plan on telling him. If he is doing something wrong, he won't do it if he knows you have a keylogger on his computer. Knowing about it defeats the purpose.

Nor would I show him this thread until you are sure he is not still having an affair. You would not be able to use this as a resource any more.


fp, I would address this with him again and make sure he understands that you can't recover unless you know the full story. As long as he continues to have secrets, you will be unable to trust again. But I think your first priority is to find out if the affair has truly ended. His secrecy is very troubling and is dangerous to your marriage.

Melody, you are right. Any connection is still an affair. It is a relief to me that they are so far apart physically, but if the emotional is still there it is just as bad. The only way that I will know for sure is to get access. He has promised me that if she ever contacted him, he would not respond (most likely would be through email). He even has avoided sending emails to someone because he knows that she has access and would most likely read it. And he promised me that he would never contact her. (I know that he broke our marriage promises, but if he is truly trying to repair our marriage...)

I like the advice that you gave to Cubed. I will ask my H to do it as a good will gesture towards me. If he refuses, then I will have to assume the worst. And then I will have to figure out a way to break in and find out myself. I may also ask him for his phone records from work. I think that he could probably get those and I could see if he called her after we moved. I will just pray for guidance as to the right timing.

I just pray that there is nothing left of 'them'. He is so sincere when we have talked since I first found out. He has been spending time in the Word and has been reading a book that has just brought him to tears. He has read me passages that are very convicting for him. He wishes that he had read them years ago so that he would have been stronger and never fallen. He is so ashamed of what he did and is hurting also.

I will not show him this thread just yet. I don't think that he has been spending much time on here lately. I will copy some of the posts from the top - Longhorn and then the one about the policeman with the briefcase, so many things to learn from.

I agree that as long as he has secrets I will not be able to trust him. That is a great way to put that.

Thanks for everything!

fp, please understand that he is not likely to tell you the truth because he is not trustworthy. Trust has to be earned, and he has demonstrated he is not willing to do what it takes to earn it. He still keeps secrets from you and is not transparent. The conditions, secrecy, that allowed for an affair have never been corrected.

He has already made it very clear to you that he will only tell you what he CHOOSES to tell you. If he decides it might not be in your "best interest" to tell you about contact, you know he will not tell you since he feels he is qualified to decide what is best for you.[in reality, he is the LEAST qualified]

The "promise" of someone who is untrustworthy is not much worth, fp. And a person who is not being completely open and honest with you is not trustworthy.

fp, he has to earn your trust and it is up to you to explain what he needs to do to achieve this. Starting with telling you the truth about the past. In the meantime, I would implore you to do as much sleuthing as possible - ON THE SLY - in order to RULE OUT an ongoing affair.

There are numerous red flags and lots of secrecy that make me wonder.

I know that he is not likely to tell me the truth if he is not willing to show me evidence of the truth. What he did broke the trust and he needs to earn it back - by proving that he is trustworthy. I am going to have to memorize this statement

"The conditions, secrecy, that allowed for his affair have never been corrected"

In a previous post you suggested calling her. I am working on a list of questions that I have had spinning around inside my head for almost two years now. I thought about asking him, and then asking her (or maybe the other way around) and comparing the answers.

I read the post on Spying. I'm not sure that anything on there would work for me. He has a PC that he takes back and forth to work. The access codes to log into the company are constantly changing. Everyone complains that it is hard to get past the security, so there is no way I can install anything on it. His cell phone is from his company, so that is all tied up in corporate billing. The only way I could get phone records is to ask him. Maybe if he knows that he has to give them to me, he will not call. But I would not know if she called him. A gps or having him followed would not do a lot of good around here.

I hate not being able to trust him. I have felt so many emotions that I never thought I could feel. But being lied to is the worst.

feeling_pain - How well I understand what you are feeling and thinking. You are early in the recovery process, so it's "fresh" and "on your mind all the time." Your concerns are REAL concerns, if for no other reason, they are wht is left when "blind trust" has been shattered and no "earned trust" has been achieved.

Understand this, you must remain vigilant IF your husband will not tell you about ANY contact, whether it is initiated by him or by her. It is often extremely difficult for a WS to "let go" and accept the "NO Contact for Life" part of recovery. But that is the LEAST that can be done in "repayment" for the greatest harm that one spouse can do for another. The "problem" is in the mind of the WS, and until they get to the point where they "get it," that is, they truly understand and embrace that YOUR feelings must come ahead of ANYTHING else related to the OW, you will NOT be able to trust him. That's a FACT that you are going to have to live with if YOU are committed to recovery and to giving recovery the time that it needs. Not to cause you any consternation or worry, but to encourage you that if both husband and wife are believers who are NOW attempting to live in humble obedience to God through the power of Christ, let me tell you that it took my wife 4 years to finally reach that "got it" stage. The emotional tendrils of an affair, especially an involved Class II affair, can take a lot of time for the WS to get untangled from. It can also stress you to your own limits of endurance. LEAN heavily on God's promise to you in Philippians 4:13, especially on the days when you are thinking "it's not worth it and maybe it's time to throw in the towel." While it may be hard to see right now, God is also using this situation to teach you and draw you closer to Him.

But remember this too, there is great hope in relying on God because neither of you can lie to God and "get away with it."

Also, it is possible that there are some good counselors in the area where you live. If you'd like, I can give you a link to a national Christian counseling group that is dedicated to the restoration of relationships with God and spouse.

It does not sound to me, from what you've written so far, that your husband is involved in the affair any longer. But it IS possible that there is still contact under the false idea that "they can still be just friends." That line was irretrievably crossed and nothing short of complete No Contact For Life will do....that is the part of the marriage covenant that goes like, "Forsaking ALL others and keeping myself only unto you." If the marriage is to be resurrected from the dead, and it DID die when he chose adultery, then that part of the covenant, almost more than all other parts, MUST be permanently established "from this day forward."

If you'd like, I would recommend two books for you and your husband to read in addition to SAA. The first is called Torn Asunder by Dave Carder and the second is called Magnificent Marriage by Gordon MacDonald. Both are written from a Christian perspective and, as such, very valuable to believers who are trying to recover their marriage and build a newer, better, more loving, marriage.

God bless.

fp, if you could get on his computer ONCE, maybe while he is home working and leaves the computer before it locks down, you can install eblaster in under 5 minutes. It will secrectly email reports to you daily along with a copy of his emails. You will never have to touch it again. The cost is around $100 and you could download it to your computer, copy it to a disc and install it on his. Can you get on his computer ONCE?

I know it is pricy, but you might want to consider calling a PI to see if he can get his hands on your husband's cell phone bill. This usually runs around $300 if they can get it. Sometimes they can't. One PI that has been used around here is: http://www.frankmusicinvestigations.net/ Ask for Frank.

Another suggestion would be to put a voice activated recorder in his car. They can pick up phone conversations. You can buy these at Radio Shack.

Foreverhers, I would love to get the link to the Christian counseling group. I pray that he will eventually come around - he said that he would do anything to make this work. We are both leaning on the promises of God. I hold to Rom 8:28 - I know that good will come from this. I am determined that it will! I am both encouraged and discouraged to hear that it took 4 years for your wife to reach that understanding - discouraged that it took so long, but encouraged that it did happen and that you did not give up. Thank you for the book ideas - I have a stack that I have read, but he has not. I may have to get him a new copy of SAA - mine is so highlighted and scribbled on that it may be hard to read, but then he could see what affected me.

Melody, if i get on his computer, he has to be there to get through the security. I do know one password, but only after it gets to a certain point, and then the password changes pretty often, so it may already be different from 2 weeks ago.

I am going to see how this weekend goes and then if I can get him to read SAA next week while he is gone. I am still torn if I should suggest that I tag along on the trip, or just let him go and tell him not to have contact with me. Any suggestions?

If he does not give me the information, then I will probably see if I can get someone to get his phone bills, both work and cell, especially since we moved.

Thanks again!!

Here is the link, fp.

National Association of Nouthetic Counselors


You can read all about NANC and how they counsel on the site.

If you want to search for a counselor who may be near to where you live, click on the "Counselors" tab in middle of the list on the left. You can then enter the search parameters, usually by State is the easiest way to begin.

The counselor that my wife and I saw was about a 1 hour one way drive from our home. Helpful in that it was in a different city and that it required a commitment from both of us just to "go the distance."

I hope you find someone who can help the two of you. If not, perhaps your husband can come on MB at some point for some help and advice too, since he knows about MB and directed you here.

God bless.