Tonight my H called and left a message on the answering machine,nothing really important. I have not spoken to him since last month. I did not call him back.

3 weeks ago I wrote him a letter and told him I do not want him to contact me.

Man I have so much in my head to say but I don't know where to start. I know I am doing the right thing by not taking his calls or allowing him to come and hang out when he has nothing else to do. I miss him very much, but it hurts when he comes and leaves to continue with his bad life.

JoCee <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

JoCee - you are really confusing, do you know that?

You have repeatedly said you are divorced, but the divorce was never finalized. Either you are or you are not divorced, so perhaps you could clarify this as your husband certainly seems to think he is divorced from you.

You want him back, but you seem to do nothing about getting him back. WHY do you want him back? And don't tell me it's because you love him because you are seem to be expressing "love" as a feeling and little else.

All of the changes you have made in yourself; house, work, school, etc. are very good changes and very positive for you personally and ANY potential relationship you might have in the future.

But you have suffered two major traumas, the tragic loss of your daughter (about which I extend to you my sincerest sympathy) and the loss of your husband. Those are two very big emotionally traumatic events to "work through." You cannot, as much as I know you would want to, have your daughter back. But you can have your ex-husband back. Your son has stated an ultimatum to you that if your ex-husband were to return, he would leave and abandon you too. That's his imposing his feelings and selfishness on you in reaction to what HE has also suffered from your ex-husband choosing someone else to REPLACE him and the family. What is it about your ex-husband that you seem to need, from him only and not from some other person? Remember, your son will soon be gone from the home no matter what. Is it as simple as you may be afraid that you will be alone and lonely?

Plan B generally only works, and is generally only recommended, AFTER a good Plan A has been done and the WS still has not ended the affair. In your ex-husband's case, he thinks he IS divorced, hence there is no longer an "affair." You have been in regular contact with his mother, who is an enabler, and therefore also in regular "contact" with your ex-husband through her. Why do you have this "need" to remain in contact, and then want a "pat on the back" for ignoring his phone call?

This seems to have devolved into a "game" that the two of you play, have grown comfortable playing, and are not willing to end.

So just what sort of help or advice are you looking for from MB and the members who may try to give you some help.

If I knew what to do I wouldn't be asking for help. You are making this sound like I am a fool for coming on this web site for help.

Yes my husband knows we are not fully divorced yet. 4 years later his attorney forgot to file the paper work with the judge.

How can you ask me what do I want from my husband. Why do other members want their marriage back BECAUSE THEY LOVE THEM....

I am not looking for a pat on the back from anyone. I just want to know. Plan A says ask him to end the affair. He said no. I told him no contact. I went on with my life as best as I could and now you make it sound like it is all for nothing.

JoCee

If you think I am so confused. Help me to straighten out my life. I came here looking for help and you seem to be critizing me.

I am new to this forum and I am trying to get help to get my huband back. If you think this is a game You are nuts

JoCee

Jocee,

Your husband left in 2003. In 2004 he filed for divorce....then for the last two years, he's visited your home two to three times a week. Now, you've decided it's just too painful and destructive to allow him to visit you so you've begun no contact. I agree with you. You didn't find MB until now....and so you've arrived where you are on your own. So I'm going to look at where you are now....because that's where you are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> In the beginning, your response (full of lovebusting.....understandable) only made him closer to the OW. However, I get the sense that the last couple of years have been different (or he wouldn't come over so often). He's obviously getting some of his needs met at your home. So, I do think you're ready for a Plan B and the protection and dignity it promises.

Can you talk a little bit about the letter you wrote? There is are some elements we like to see in a Plan B letter. You aren't a fool for coming here. Try not to get defensive, we have a very diverse group of people here and you'll get a wide range of posts.

I am sorry. I got upset What do want to know?

Start filling in some details. I'd like to hear about what his visits this last year have been like. Do y'all fight? Do you sit at the kitchen table and drink coffee? What is your relationship right now?

This past year he would come over sit at the table and eat talk no fights at all. We have not fought for about 2years. Things are great, in all aspects. He said that our relationship is the best it has ever been.

I thought that he may have been thinking about coming home. We also spoke about my thoughts of us being back together by our 20th anniversary 2/14/08. He laughed and said Oh yeah!

This April things changed he started to become distant a bit. He was still coming over at least 3-4 times a week. When I asked him about rebuilding he said "he likes it the way it is. He comes here and see's everyone and leaves. (he has his cake) I asked him if he is still in his relationship he said yeah. I told him he cannot have the both of us. He cannot continue to play house here and play boyfriend & girlfriend somewhere else.

I was never mean to him I always let him come. Our visit was nice and calm he always felt at home.

Then one day in April my son and he got into fallout. My son heard him talking to her on the phone and confronted his father.

When H and I talked about the problem, my H said it is none of my sons business who he dates. I said know its not. But if you are still seeing the OW you left us for then he has a right. He does not want to be around that drama again.

That is when I felt enough is enough. If he wants to remain in his relationship with her he needs to stop playing house with us. He did not like that. He said I cannot stop him from seeing the animals (our pets). Never mentioning anything about me or Steven.

The reason I had to stop him from coming is because I want him to make a decision. I will honor his choice. If it’s her he wants then so be it.

That is why I said I have no contact with him since 7/1. If he contacts me it his choice not mine. While I am still very much in contact with his mother we never speak of him. He left us. we did not leave his mother my son is her only grandchild she will never give him up no matter what my husband does with his life. She maybe an enabler because she is housing him, but maybe it is working because he never moved in with the OW. He has been with his mom since he left us.

JoCee

Okay.....so in essence....you DID do a Plan A....probably for too long, but at least he's gotten a good chance to remember what he loved about you. And I agree that going to Plan B is the only way to stop this cake eater from hurting you. So what did you your letter say?

I told him not to contact me. To leave me alone. He made it perfectly clear that he wants to stay in the lifestyle that he is in. I told him he is not the man I knew and loved he has changed for the worst. He does not care who he is hurting as long as he is happy.

I told him if that is what he wants to have a good life.

HMMM, I dont think you should have contact with his mother. Sorry, that's just my opinion. I mean your son is old enough to get dropped off at the corner or driveway when he wants or she wants to visit with him. Your H lives with his mom. And even though u have NC with him, you may be giving him a sense that you are willing to stay close by conversating with mom. I dont mean dont talk to the woman, i just mean lenghty chats. And get out more. One day someone that knows him is going to tell him that they see you out and about having all kinds of fun...and then he will start to wonder if you have moved on. He will start thinking about you and what you are doing and doing with who and his mom won't be able to tell him anything because you're never around. But when you talk to his mother, that's his mother--im sure she relays back to him no matter what she's telling you otherwise. I haven't read your other post so I may be totally off---if so im sorry but just going by this post, that's my advice. Good Luck!

JoCee - Nope, not a fool, but you seemed very confused. It is time you stopped using the term "Divorced" if, in fact, you are not actually divorced. Separated would be a better term for clarity. I'm sorry if you got upset, but I take no offense because we know how "crazy making" adultery can be on a Betrayed Spouse because we've lived it and have seen it many times. So please accept my apology if I caused you any hurt or pain.




Again, not criticizing, unless you mean constructive criticism.

Before knowing what you want to do and how we might be able to help you achieve your goal, you need to know what it is that you want and what you are willing to do.




lol...please don't take offense, we all have been "nuts" when faced with infidelity. In some respects, it is a "game," because the WS plays games with the BS and the BS sometimes plays games because they don't know what to do or why to do something yet. That's part of the learning process. If you want to "see" the game in action, just consider the "cakewalking" of your husband and ask yourself if he is trying to play a game with you according to HIS terms and his rules.

Recovery is about the BS establishing the rules and the terms. But remember this point, because it is critical to keeping you sane during this process. The WS has already chosen to end the marriage, the "game of marriage" is over in the WS's mind. In effect, the "old marriage game" IS over. What you, if you want to recover your marriage, need to do is to establish a new "game" with you as the "rule maker." The goal of the game is a recovered marriage with your currently WS, but never lose sight of two critical facts. One, despite all your efforts the marriage may not recover because he may choose to finalize the divorce. Two, you MUST be in control of the recovery process (the "game" if you will). The reason is that he was, and still is, in control of the "adultery game" and YOU get to decide to try to take him back and rebuild a marriage or to let him go and build a life without him. The choice is yours, not his.

JoCee, love IS the reason why a BS attempts recovery. I wanted to be sure that really is your reason and not the "weak position" of simply being afraid of being single and potentially alone in the years to come. Recovery efforts take strength, endurance, and a PLAN. You need to know the steps, why you are taking them (to hopefully achieve your objective, i.e., ending an affair, gaining a commitment to attempt recovery, steps necessary to promote recovery and steps necessary to avoid because they are destructive to both recovery and a good marriage), and what YOUR own personal Standards and Boundaries are, or that you want to establish.

Plan B will have one of two results, if you truly implement a true Plan B.

First, the affair ends as the WS realizes the "cakewalking" is over and the OP can't meet all of his needs. In short, it "Forces" the WS to try to get all of his needs met by the OP "as if" the divorce is final and you will have nothing more to do with him.

Second, the WS decides there is no hope for "keeping you on the line his way," decides that the OP can meet all of his needs (doesn't matter if she can or can't at this point), and does not have the spine to end the affair and/or "do what's right," and opts for a divorce.

In that respect, Plan B IS an ultimatum. As with all ultimatums, the chance exists that you may not get the result you want, so you have to be prepared for the undesired result.

Since we believe that there is NO room in a marriage for an outside person, it really comes down to what you believe about marriage. If you believe the same way, then you really are not taking much of a risk in trying to end the affair and recover your marriage....because the marriage is already over, by his decision to have, and continue, an affair.





JoCee, that's good! Because you won't get many "pats on the back." What you will get are a lot of hugs of understanding and encouragement if you want to shoulder the hard work of a recovery effort. Once the "game" is joined on YOUR terms, you will enter what is often called "crazy making times." You already are experiencing some of that, but when you play the game with a Plan, not by the "seat of your pants," it will really get crazy. It (Plan B) can be very hard on you emotionally even though it's obviously needed in your current situation. It can also be crazy making if your WS is the type who will try all sorts of things to maintain his cakewalking by getting you to "soften" (weaken). The reason is simple, he will realize, consciously or subconsciously, that the old game he was playing has ended and an new game has started with you as the "game master." In short, he loses all control and has to play by your rules. It will drive him crazy and he may try to get you to "bend the rules" and "make exceptions to the rules" so he can reestablish some control for himself. One of the favorite ploys is to make "nice-nice" with you to get you to think he is changing. But the thing he is trying to get is to keep both of you "on the line."

THE Boundary issue here is clear and simple: The affair must end and contact with the OP must end. Without that, there IS no marriage and no recovery. Keep that thought firmly in your mind as the days, weeks, and months progress.

God bless.

Thanks for the advise. I don't have lenghty conversations with my MIL. I speak to her maybe once or twice a month. We are on good terms and will remain that way. My son does not see his father at all, He hasn't spoke to his dad since April. My son and his father are a whole other story.

I am moving on slowly, I don't have many men knocking down my door. But there is one I may be interested in. I don't think he feels the same. He is a recent widower 1 year.

It is hard for me to get involved with someone. I still have very very strong feelings for my H.

JoCee

((((JoCee))))

You CAN'T get involved with anyone else. You are still married.
Involvement (physical or emotional) = adultery.

God bless.

Yes I want him because I love him. Not because I don't want to be alone. I am very capable of living on my own for the rest of my days if I had to. I can't explain to anyone why I love him I just do. and that is the end of it.

These are my rules if he wants me he must end his affair and truly wants to rebuild our marriage. I love him I forgive him and I want to rebuild.

If he chooses not to come back then I will continue moving forward. Without him.

No nO NOOO that's not what I meant, please do not get involved with anyone hunny you are not ready yet. Not saying this based on your situation but based on I think anyone coming out of a relationship probably need a year to find themselves... When i said get out there, i just meant with friends and family...only he will think its with another man...and never let him know for sure you are with another man...because legally that may hurt in divorce. Plus you are still married.

wakingbeauty10 & ForeverHers

Thank you both for the great plan advice. I will follow this plan and keep on moving forward. These are my rules. I do know that what ForeverHers said about him trying to change the plan will be true I seen it when he called yesterday for no apparent reason. I did not answer his call because I know that he was just trying to make nice.

One question..... How will I know if the Affair is over?????

JoCee

I was told if you want to know if the affair is over, don't watch him (WH) because he wont tell you anything, watch her-she will let you know if the affair is still going.

What does that mean? I dont know, I havn't done it yet. I guess it means whether or not she has a new man in her life. I don't know, this was an older/wiser lady who told me this. If anyone knows exactly what its meant by watching the lover, let me know.

He will come home and be 100% open and honest with you. No secret cell phone's, email accounts, etc. He will send a NC letter approved by you. If she is a coworker, he will change jobs. If she lives in your neighborhood, he will suggest moving.

You don't trust him until he earns it back. You should be checking.....trust but verify.

Who

The phone call won't be for "no apparent reason," it will be along the lines of "I'd like to talk."

Two possibilities with that call:

1. He has decided to end the affair and is beginning to realize what he has lost in you.

2. He is trying to "waffle" in order to get you to weaken. If you don't get a concrete statement from him that the affair is over, tell him to call you only when he is ready to end the affair and begin recovering your marriage.

Tell him that you love him but you only have so much patience in waiting, and he's used that up. The reason you have told him not to contact you is because you want to protect what love you have for him in case he changes his mind, but that his continued affair is too painful and will result in a divorce if he can't make a choice between the two of you. This IS an ultimatum, but that is what plan B is all about, so ready yourself to either begin recovery or for him to choose "door number two."

BTW, you only have this conversation with him IF he calls seemingly to talk about getting back together and then you get the feeling that he is just trying to "cakewalk" again.

IF it turns out that the reason was "option 1," then be prepared to implement the sorts of things that WhoMe wrote in her post to you.